- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

VCF-Berlin, 2015

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Rich Alderson > I've .. eliminated the following possibilities: Using the decsystem10 System Reference Manual (3rd Edition, August '74), I can additionally eliminate: Only 2 rows of lights: DC10 (picture here doesn't have 5 rows, per below?) > Only 3 rows of lights: > ME10 memory > MF10 memory > TD10 DECtape controller DA10 MA10 MB10 MD10 > 5 rows of lights: > KI-10 CPU bays Would love a picture of these; see pg. F1-5 for why! :-) > RH10 Massbus interface > DAS33 memory buffer > DL10 > DC10 KA10 CPU bays > 4 rows of lights, but do not match: > RP10C disk controller > DF10C > DA28-C > RC10 BA10 DS10 TM10 That's getting to be a pretty complete list... Noel

10 years, 7 months

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VCF-Berlin, 2015

by mhs.stein＠gmail.com

> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jack Rubin" <j at ckrubin.us> > Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 10:13 PM > > Here are some of my photos from VCF-Berlin - > http://tinyurl.com/vcfb-2015 . More narrative is > at the Vintage Computer Forum - > http://tinyurl.com/vcfb-vcfd . Enjoy - I > certainly did! > > Jack > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Stein" <mhs.stein at gmail.com> Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 11:30 AM > Hi Jack, > > Unfortunately I can't access the pictures on VCF ... etc. Getting back to the point before this went seriously off-topic, are other non-VCF-members also unable to see these pictures on VCF? If so, would it make sense when posting things like this on VCF to use links instead of or in addition to uploading and embedding them there? m

10 years, 7 months

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Chuck Forsberg died on 9/24. :(

by geneb＠deltasoft.com

Here's the obituary: http://www.anewtradition.com/obituaries/obituary/12060_Charles_Alton_Forsbe… g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

10 years, 7 months

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Micro-Altair tape interface

by dave＠661.org

As I finally complete my Micro-Altair kit from Briel Computers, my thoughts turn to the question of how I can get an audio tape interface working on this machine. I understand that the MITS tape controller is essentially a serial port with a simple modem bolted on the rear. The Micro-Altair has only one serial port, coming off the ramdisk board, which will be used for the console (no, I don't want to use the built-in terminal). How can a second serial port be added to this machine? Then for recognizing Kansas City tape tones, I suppose I could clone the circuitry of the tape drive modem. Then I realized I could make an Arduino do this with a handful of other common parts. I could make it recognize Tarbell and other tape formats. Has anyone else done this sort of thing? -- David Griffith dave at 661.org A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

10 years, 7 months

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Vintage Mac & PC sale @ VCF recycling warehouse

by sellam＠vintagetech.com

After a dozen years I'm shutting down my e-waste recycling business. In that time I managed to accumulate a lot of interesting things, including a lot of vintage PCs that are from a bygone era and have enough unique features to make them collectible. I have models from various brands including Packard Bell, Acer, HP, Compaq, Leading Edge, etc. There's also a stack of at least half a dozen restorable IBM PCs (model 5150). I also have a huge selection of Macs, from some 90s and even 80s models (Mac SE) all the way through the return of Jobs era with the iMac and the G3's, G4's (aluminum case servers), etc., plus laptops. I have every iMac color. I was planning to ripen these to 20 years old before I sold them on eBay for silly sums but I'll start letting them go still green and you can ripen them in your garage. Keyboards and mice also available to make complete systems. I also have lots of other vintage electronics, including whole items and parts, like test equipment, some older radio stuff (tubes), &c. Plus a lot of other cool/useful/practical stuff. Of course there will be some much more vintagey computers available as well but those will be selling for "real" money. Everything above is offered for cheap. If you'd like to come roam the warehouse in Livermore and shop for bargains then send me an e-mail and we'll set up an appointment. At this point I'm available through November 15th here. After that, everyone just goes away. Thanks! -- Sellam ibn Abraham VintageTech ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintagetech.com Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. The truth is always simple. * * * NOTICE * * * Due to the insecure nature of the medium over which this message has been transmitted, no statement made in this writing may be considered reliable for any purpose either express or implied. The contents of this message are appropriate for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. The right of the people to be secure in their papers against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated.

10 years, 7 months

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IBM z890

by connork＠connorsdomain.com

I recently won an IBM z890 via auction for $237. It was a very interesting adventure to retrieve this machine since it weighs 1500LBS on a good day, and well myself only clocking in around 115LBS I needed the help of a few friends and family to get this thing into the basement... I stripped the machine down to its bare rack to get it into the basement safely, although the rack itself I calculated to weigh about 800LBS itself. I'd say the most difficult part was the excavation we had to do to get it to fit under the deck! It was a REALLY tight fit as you will see in the photos. It took two trips to get it all, one with the truck alone to remove most of the innards and another with the trailer to grab the rest out of the rack and the rack itself. Its already in the basement and most of the way back together, just running the wiring internally for it then I need to wire up a 240v 30a outlet once we get the new breaker box in since there is no more room in the current box. Photos of the whole adventure: http://imgur.com/a/5uWit I plan to pickup an SAN based SCSI box to install Linux and play with. As far as I know I can't install any IBM OS' this way, I would need FICON or ESCON type storage to boot anything like z/OS. (Read EXPENSIVE!) As far as I know I can grab one of these boxes: http://www.ebay.com/itm/201459314771 And hook this up to a FICON interface and it will act as storage via FCP as a SAN. This 'should' allow me to use SCSI devices like an array of hard drives to install Linux. I'm obviously not very familiar with the z-series but I have been trying to read up and learn about everything. Let me know if my thought process and info are correct, also any suggestions or tips would be greatly appreciated! -Connor K

10 years, 7 months

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sort by date back in google groups searches

by aek＠bitsavers.org

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/classiccmp|sort:date for example

10 years, 7 months

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Terminology [was RE: IBM z890]

by RichA＠LivingComputerMuseum.org

Mike Ross Sent: Monday, November 02, 2015 7:15 PM > One does not boot a mainframe; one IPLs it. :) Only if said mainframe is from a company with HQ in Armonk, NY. ;-> You know, the same company that does not have dis[kc]s, but DASD. Rich Rich Alderson Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer Living Computer Museum 2245 1st Avenue S Seattle, WA 98134 mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/

10 years, 7 months

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Xerox 6085 and Intel MDS II - Value?

by tomjmoss＠googlemail.com

Hi all, I'm in need of a new cabin and might be willing to part with a couple of my more unusual systems to fund it. I have a complete Xerox 6085 with monitor, keyboard, mouse, and tape drive in very good visual condition, with only a few scuffs on the case and some minor yellowing on the keyboard and mouse. The card slots are fully populated, but I haven't check how much RAM is installed yet. It has a working hard drive but no OS. It boots up and IIRC passes the self test. I don't have a floppy drive for it but could wire one up to further test if anyone has a diagram. I also have two Intel MDS IIs, the one I'm thinking of selling currently lights up but doesn't display anything on the monitor. I also have various boxed ICE devices (8085/6/8), software (haven't tried reading it, some of which isn't on bitsavers yet), and manuals for everything. Has anyone seen these sell in the past? All I could find was an ebay listing for a badly damaged Xerox base unit for $500. I live in England, but would be willing to ship worldwide. Regards, -Tom

10 years, 7 months

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Fw: SCA drives - any interest?

by mhs.stein＠gmail.com

Duh! In the immortal words of Emily Litella: Never mind. I keep forgetting that I still have a couple of Proliants, ML370s as it turns out; not quite the same bay, but probably close enough. m ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Stein" <mhs.stein at gmail.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2015 12:23 AM Subject: Re: SCA drives - any interest? >I have a couple of 6-drive hot swap bays that some of these drives came out of; >unfortunately I didn't make a note of what systems they came out of but they >look like the bay in this Proliant ML370: > http://techtradepartners.squarespace.com/blog/2011/1/3/we-practice-what-we-… > > although this 5500 looks vaguely familiar and there are two of these bays...: > http://tempcomgauper.blog.com/2014/04/06/compaq-proliant-5500-server/ > > In any case, they interface through a 68-pin SCSI connector and a 6-pin power > connector; by any chance would anyone know where I could find the pinout for > that power connector? > > Maybe this isn't the best place to ask; is there a forum where server fans > hang out? > > Thanks, > > mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Zane Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Sent: Monday, November 02, 2015 8:21 PM > Subject: Re: SCA drives - any interest? > > > > On Nov 2, 2015, at 10:42 AM, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote: > >> On 11/02/2015 08:54 AM, Mike Stein wrote: >> >>> In case anyone is looking for the 'caddies' it looks like they're >>> mostly HP/Compaq, including several dummies; I scrapped more IBM >>> servers than HP, but to my surprise I only found two IBM units. >> >> The nice thing about SCA drives is that adapters for narrow- or wide-SCSI >> are/used to be available. I've run SCA drives with old Power Macintoshes, >> for example. >> >> I don't know if it's still true, but high-performance SCA drives do tend to >> run pretty hot. >> >> --Chuck > > I have one or two of those adapters somewhere. Any SCA drives I've used, have > been quite hot, which is why I run them in external enclosures intended for > them. It's rare to find ones that run at less than 7200rpm, most are 10k or > 15k. > > Zane > > >

10 years, 7 months

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Front panels

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> > Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 13:11:29 -0700 > From: Charles Anthony <charles.unix.pro at gmail.com> > Subject: Front panels > > The front panel I want to build is for my DPS8-M (aka Honeywell 6180) > emulator. > > > http://8bitaficionado.com/2010/09/22/multics-honeywell-6180-mainframe-panel… > > > TIA, > > -- Charles > That is only one of two panels on the Honeywell processors. There was another one on the other CPU door. There is are three rollers with an encoding switchs to change what the lights were displaying. Moving the roller changed the text that was visible in the window below the light bulbs and told you what each light meant. -- Michael Thompson

10 years, 7 months

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youtube video of a runnning XDS Sigma mainframe with lots of nice periphe...

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

Be good to see this all live again! \ Kudos to Allen and LCM! Ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) In a message dated 11/2/2015 5:48:04 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, p.gebhardt at ymail.com writes: All the HW and SW that >> was in running condition was rescued by the LCM in Seattle. I know LCM has >> had someone with Sigma experience working on and off on the Sigma to get it >> running again. Not sure of the current status. But, that would be an >> awesome time-sharing system alongside the DEC-20 they have.

10 years, 7 months

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SCA drives - any interest?

by jzatar2＠illinois.edu

>Just asking: Any interest in 80-pin SCA drives, >Ultra 3 and Ultra320 in various capacities, both >IBM and HP/Compaq 'caddies' ? > >m I think you mentioned you had ~150GB drives, but I was wondering if you had some in larger size? I'd take a couple 300GB if the price was right. I bought an LTO-3 drive, but if I want to do any CPU based compression, I'm going to need at least a (400GB) tape's worth of 'tape spooling' buffer space. 3 ~150GB drives would work, but I'd like to cut down on power and noise, and go with a couple 300GB drives if you have them, and the price is right. I'd be willing to do about $40 for the two or three drives, if that's not worth your time, then just let me know and I'll start looking for some drives elsewhere. Thanks, Joseph Zatarski

10 years, 7 months

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Front panels

by charles.unix.pro＠gmail.com

The front panel I want to build is for my DPS8-M (aka Honeywell 6180) emulator. http://8bitaficionado.com/2010/09/22/multics-honeywell-6180-mainframe-panel… (Now it's a pretty big panel, so I'm thinking 1/4 scale.) I'm mostly interested in the lights; having functional switches would be nice, but not critical. (My background: good grasp of basic digital electronics; did some wirewrap boards back in the early eighties. Poor soldering skills, no workshop. Mad software skillz.) I would like to build it reasonably cheaply. So I would start with a simple SBC; Beaglebone or the like, that can function as a USB device. I can write the S/W to push a bunch of bits down to it. What I don't know how to do is drive 500 or so LEDs. I am guessing a bunch of shift registers, but I've pretty much reached my design limits. I need some guidance on locating and understanding the technology to run that many LEDs. TIA, -- Charles

10 years, 7 months

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Emulex QD32

by cc＠informatik.uni-stuttgart.de

Hi all, I'm trying to set up a MicroVAX II that has an SMD disk attached to an Emulex QD32 controller. I need to test and/or format the disk and so I'm looking for images of the Emulex diagnostic floppies (should be RX50 AFAIK). Those found at http://www.headcrashers.org/comp/rx50/ boot, but I have not the faintest idea of how to start anything in there; even a "DIR" gives only an error, so I assume they are faulty/incomplete. That's what I get: >>> b dua0 2..1..0.. Emulex VAX Monitor V1.2 MicroVAX I 16-SEP-1985 09:00:00 uEVM>DIR ---> ERROR: PHYSICAL READ ERROR Is there by any chance also a diagnostic manual for this stuff? Christian

10 years, 7 months

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Seeking equipment storage help in Phoenix

by drb＠msu.edu

Jay West and I are working on rescuing a minicomputer system in the Phoenix area. The equipment will eventually be shipped to one of us, but for right now we need to get it out of the building where it currently resides, and into temporary storage. If we have to, we'll use a u-store facility, but we're hoping a collector near Phoenix might be willing to store the system for a few months until we can arrange onward movement, to reduce the wallet pain. We think we have transport lined up to move it to your location, though if you happen to have a liftgate truck and be a nice guy or gal, ... ;) Size: the system is basically two racks, plus boxes for cables, manuals, etc. The whole pile should be less than three racks worth of floor space. Total weight is about 1400 pounds. Time frame: the equipment needs to be out of its current location before the end of November. We'll commit to moving the equipment onward within six months. If you think you might be able to help, drop Jay (jwest at classiccmp.org) or me a line. Thanks! De

10 years, 7 months

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dec cabinet part available

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

I've been away from DEC stuff far too long, so I don't remember what this is called - but I'll describe it. The beige dec cabinets (corp cab?) that are wider than about 19 inches... the ones where there is the "normal" 19" rack and then to the left or the right there is a top to bottom, front to back, "plenum" about maybe 8 inches wide. What I have is the brown cover for that plenum. 52.5 tall, 7.5 wide, hex key quick-release at the top, two ears at the bottom. Come to think of it, I'm not 100% sure it is from a DEC cabinet but I am thinking it came off one of a few five foot tall beige dec racks all stuffed top to bottom with RA81's. Anywho, whatever it is from, I am sure I do not have the rack (nor the RA81's that came with) that it goes with any longer. I'm in a rather non-trivial project to clean out and organize the basement and I'd like to get rid of this. I'd hate to put it in the skip if someone looks at it as "the last unobtainium piece to finish off their restoration". If no one wants it, I'm going to snag the hex key quick-release mech for myself and pitch the rest. J

10 years, 7 months

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RF08/RS08 photos and panel measurements (Re: RK11-C Panel)

by cube1＠charter.net

Looking at the document at: http://dustyoldcomputers.com/pdp-common/reference/drawings/peripherals/docs… The picture, though extremely fuzzy, matches my panel in the organization of legends and breaks in line. Since I have what I think is a complete RF08, and pieces of the drive (RS08), I think it is safe to conclude that I have the panel from an RF08. However, the panel is designed to actually hold up to 8 lights of 36 bits each. I have to believe that DEC used this setup for any number of light panels. For photos of the drive electronics, controller electronics, power supply, platter and display and display measurements, see: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2v4WRwISEQRTkVRX2NPMThILWM I posted detail display panel photos and measurements in subfolder Display of this Google Drive folder (RF08-RS08) The main folder has photos of the drive (RS08) electronics and the controller (RF08) electronics, etc. (The very first photo shows some mouse droppings / seeds, which I cleaned up (though I did not entirely disassemble the thing), and are less apparent in subsequent photos (I recall there being even more extensive cleaning after the simple vacuuming I did before taking most of the photos). There is also a photo of the power supply and the (now separated from the container) platter and a head or two as well as a photo of the display panel. In the Display sub-folder are photos of the panel and its components, and a text file with measurements. Apologies in advance for the photo quality of the display. I didn't want to use a flash, and so there was some camera shake, even with IS. JRJ On 10/26/2015 7:25 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote: > > I have just worked out the pattern on the cables to the indicator panel, > > which allows me, from the device schematics, to tell which signals are > > shown on which lights on the indicator panel - I can even tell where the > > spaces are between light groups (since those lights are not > > connected). So I know now exactly what the panel shows, and almost > > certainly in which lights (although there might be a left/right swap, > > there are no fields which span the boundary). > > So here's the writeup on the RK11-C insert: > > http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/RK11-C_insert.txt > > The unusual light pattern should allow us to know, instantly, if we see one. > > Noel > >

10 years, 7 months

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KIM Uno /PiDP-11 plans...

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> I've ordered 10 7101J50-CQE2's from Online ... _Iff_ they fit into the > old front panels, I'll let the list know. > ... > let's see if the 7101J50-C's fit, then we can discuss how to proceed. So the switches got here Friday, and alas, they are _not quite_ the right thing. They are very close, however - they have the bent face-plate, with the latch, and the triangular side plates with the holes at the tips for the pivots of the toggle (actuator, is I guess the formal name). They are also the same size (facing them - i.e. side-side, both directions). The only thing that's wrong is that the distance between the switch body, and the top of the bent face-plate, is too far. This, alas, means not only that it won't fit into existing holder frames on front consoles, but they also interfere with the installation of the DEC custom toggles (actuators). However, they are _so close_ that it's possible that C+K can produce some semi-custom ones with the right distance. (I've had a good look through the C+K 7000 series catalog, and all of the current snap-in panel ones have the taller offset.) Maybe they even still have the tooling, and it's only a special order. Anyway, I will call C+K on Monday, and see what I can find out. Noel

10 years, 7 months

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Front Panels - Thoughts

by rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com

Hi Guys Sitting here doing the overlays for the 8/e silk screen run. I had a thought. Including all makes of computer old and new. What about a front panel with lights and switches for systems that never had one and could have done with one? Which computer would you nominate? I'm not about to do anything about it. But the answers should be interesting Rod Smallwood

10 years, 7 months

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Apple II Rev 2 value?

by unclefalter＠yahoo.ca

I have a rev 4 Apple II in the 38000 s/n range. I'm hoping to, over the years, gradually trade my way up to a Rev 0. I've seen Rev 0 units go on ebay recently for around $3000ish. Below that seems to be a jumble, mostly to do with completeness, originality, etc. Although, no always. Some have had motherboards upgraded to newer versions and still gone for $2500. Anyway, I'm looking to move up. My questions (and I realize this is all opinion): 1) What would my Apple II rev 4 be worth? Again it's serial number is in the 38000 range, black label. It was in France and had its original board replaced with a clone board, and some customization including a small switch for power that was drilled into the back of the case was done. I have installed a Rev 4 board with Integer Basic chips. I also did some repairs on the keyboard and it is fully functional, but the repairs involved a couple of jumper wires to deal with bad traces. 2) What would you be willing to pay for a 12000 range s/n Rev 2 that is in so/so condition, some rusty chip legs and non-functional keyboard? Is a Rev 2 anything special? Thanks!

10 years, 7 months

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Front Panels Update - Lexan and 8/e round hole positions

by rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com

Hi Guys, I got asked if we could do Lexan panels. I think it was for DG. Yes my supplier does Lexan and can laser cut holes etc. So if you need Lexan panels let me know. The next batch of 8/e A & B will have the hole for the selector switch and the one for the lock pre-drilled. We need to come up with an agreement as to the positions of said holes Can we get the coordinates and sizes of the holes from existing panels using identifiable reference points. The more I get the closer it will be. I'm hoping they won't vary and we can go ahead. Please send me any data for existing panels you may have. Rod (PanelMan) Smallwood

10 years, 7 months

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State of Illinois auction website Sun SPARC server and Digital line printer

by jzatar2＠illinois.edu

Hey everyone, I was browsing the state of illinois online auction site, iBid, and found these: https://ibid.illinois.gov/item.php?id=155511 https://ibid.illinois.gov/item.php?id=155521 Maybe someone can give one of them a home? I think they'll let a freight company pick it up for you if you can't pick it up in person. Regards, Joe

10 years, 7 months

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Lurker no more...

by applecorey＠optonline.net

Well I finally setup a separate email address so I can receive individual messages from cctalk instead of the daily digest which really doesn't lend itself to posting back. Just wanted to say hi. Cheers, Corey corey cohen u??o? ???o?

10 years, 7 months

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Gov. & the machine(s) we love

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Brent Hilpert > - ca. 1970: The well-known story of the 4004 is that Busicom .. asked > Intel to manufacture a set of ASIC LSI chips, of Busicom's design, for > a new calculator. .. Hoff, who looked at the multiple chip designs and > conceived instead of a software (firmware) solution running in a > 'computer' processor .. If I have it right, because the MCS-4 family > was developed under the contract to Busicom, Intel had to do some > business wrangling to get the rights back to their MCS-4 design to sell > it as a general-purpose processor independently of Busicom. According to "The Man Behind the Microchip" (by Berlin, the Noyce bio - can highly recommend), Intel had agreed to a price to produce the ASIC's, and Hoff, who was only supposed to be an advisor to the Japanese engineers designing the ASIC's (they arrived at Intel at the end of June, '69), decided they couldn't meet that price point, and dreamed up the uP. Busicom wasn't impressed, but Noyce told him to go ahead as a backup. Later, Busicom execs over-ruled their engineers and went with Intel's approach. When they started to go into production, there was a lot of competition in the calculator business, and Busicom wanted to cut the price from Intel; Intel agreed (in September '71), if they were given the rights to sell it for non-calculator applications. Noel

10 years, 8 months

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Gov. & the machine(s) we love

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Paul Koning > Supposedly some of the impetus for integrated circuits came from the > space program -- but I think the first ones (at TI) predate that. "Digital Apollo" (pg. 125) says that Fairchild was first to ship commercially, in 1961 ("Journey to the Moon" puts it in the fall, pg. 19), followed by TI and Signetics. In '62, the Instrumentation Labs produced a prototype AGC using Fairchild ICs (in the To-47 round can - they went to the flat packs in a later version); in November, NASA OK'd their use in the flight computers (replacing discrete transistors). (The Minuteman was also using ICs, but 20 different custom designs - the AGC used all standard NOR gate packages.) In '63, Apollo was using 60% of the ICs produced in the US (pg. 127), both for flight computers, and ground test equipment. "Journey" (pg. 19) says they were the largest consumers of ICs from '61 to '65. Their insistance on quality really helped raise the companies' game (pg. 133); not sure if this also increased yield (and thus lowered costs). Block I (which flew on Apollo's AS-201, 4 and 6; 5, and 7 on used Block II - finally found it, pg. 143) used the round metal cans, Block II used the flat packs; NASA had approved the switch to flat packs for the Block II in December, '63. Both TI and Fairchild had stopped producing the chips Apollo needed before the program ended (they had become obsolete); luckily for Apollo, Philco kept their production line open. "Journey" has a large section on the government's influence on early chip production, see pp. 19-23. Noel

10 years, 8 months

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"Demystification" is just as important as "Abstraction" in "Computer Science" (Was: Know any Fortran

by cctalk＠beyondthepale.ie

> > Our industry is saturated with such refusal to understand. Consider > Microsoft's "throw hardware at the software problems" argument that if > their software runs too slowly on your computer, then that shows that YOUR > COMPUTER (and you) is inadequate, and you should get a faster computer. > Seems perfectly logical to me. Microsoft blames your hardware for their bloatware running slowly. You update the hardware and it solves the problem. Then they can ratchet up the bloat level again and convince you that the reason the new version runs so slowly is because the hardware you are running it on is no longer up to it. They were right the first time, so why wouldn't they be right this time? GOTO 10. Writing efficient software to get the best out of the hardware would sure spoil that business model. Regards, Peter Coghlan.

10 years, 8 months

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Up for Auction: Memory from the First Computer in Space

by feldman.r＠comcast.net

A core memory unit from Gemini 3 is up for auction: http://www.scientificcomputing.com/news/2015/10/auction-memory-first-comput…

10 years, 8 months

5
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Gov. & the machine(s) we love

by c.murray.mccullough＠gmail.com

What is the role played by the U.S. gov. in helping to create the microcomputer? What money & expertise did it provide? ?Steve Jobs the Movie? doesn?t mention this nor have books written about him and microcomputers in general mentioned this. Not even mine! Do the computers we love owe more to gov. than we care to admit? Granted I'm a Cdn. and 'we' here up north view it somewhat differently than Americans... Happy computing. Murray :)

10 years, 8 months

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free: Trifold folder "DIGITAL WindowsNT" floppies/CDs & DEC ServerWORKS CDs

by jpeterson＠chinalake.com

Been collecting dust, free for the cost of shipping. *** Item 1: Trifold folder "DIGITAL WindowsNT" Seems like an incomplete or mixed install set. Photos upon request. 3.5 diskettes: - Microsoft WindowsNT x86 V3.51 Boot Disks 1, 2, 3 - Windows NT 3.51/4.0 configuration Guide for DIGITAL Alpha systems (1997) - ECU Disk V1.8 DEC Alpha for OpenVMS and Digital Unix - Alpha Systems H/W RX23, Alpha XL 300/366 Family, Alpha Station 255, Alpha Server 100 5/xx, 1000A, 2100A, 4100 HW support disk for windows 3.51 - MS Windows NT 3.51 Release Notes for digital Alpha System CDs: - Digital Internet Roadmap for Windows NT CD V2 - CD: Digital Windows NT 3.51 Alpha Generation X86 P/N: AG-PYZVD-BH (assuming it is not alpha ver of NT) *** Item 2: In a ServerWORKS labeled envelope, with the usual upgrade kit readme first pages. Digital ServerWORKS *Manager* CDs V3.3 Apt '98 P/N: AG-QURLH-BH and V3.2 P/N: AG-QURLG-BH These were clearly upgrade kits, but the manifest indicates full versions on CD as usual. No lic key -jim/eastern ma/us

10 years, 8 months

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Source for 360k drives?

by snhirsch＠gmail.com

I need to pickup a few more 360k drives. Does anyone know of a source besides eBay - or, have a few they can part with? At this point, form-factor is not critical. I could actually use both full-height and half-height units. --

10 years, 8 months

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Lurker no more...

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

Welcome Corey! how did you get the upside down font in the email sig? Ed# In a message dated 10/30/2015 9:59:06 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, applecorey at optonline.net writes: Well I finally setup a separate email address so I can receive individual messages from cctalk instead of the daily digest which really doesn't lend itself to posting back. Just wanted to say hi. Cheers, Corey corey cohen u??o? ???o?

10 years, 8 months

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Know any Fortran programmers who need a more interesting job?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Fred Cisin > 2 or 3 decades ago, the folk controlling lower division undergraduate > "Computer Science" at UC .. declared, "Assembly language is dead! > Nobody will ever program in it again.", and shifted their program to > Scheme/Lisp. > .. > assembly language may no longer be a great career path, but there will > always be need for some levels of hand optimization. It's worth teaching a bit of machine/assembler language, so that students understand how computers _actually work_, underneath. There's a semi-famous incident from a couple of decades back at MIT: they were teaching a programming course in CLU (an "object-based" language which contributed many ideas to object-oriented programming). So one assignment was to write an assembler - which required being able to print octal numbers. So quite a few of the students wrote 'octal clusters' ('cluster' is CLU jargon for the collection of routines which know-how/are-allowed to operate on members of a class), which used normal decimal read and write to do input/output - and had 'octal add' etc routines which took apart two 'octal numbers' abcdef, stored as the decimal number abcdef, into their constituent digits, added them together individually, did the carries, and then put it all back together. (I am not making this up. This really happened.) Apparently nobody had ever told them that a number in memory is... just a number. At which point it became clear that they needed to know a little more about how a computer actually worked. Noel

10 years, 8 months

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IBM cluster for auction

by innfoclassics＠gmail.com

May not be old enough but this is the group I think might be interested. I have just started following GovDeals. https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemID=1624&acctID=4788 Cluster is in Ohio. Pax -- Paxton Hoag Astoria, OR USA

10 years, 8 months

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Lurker no more...

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

it is pretty neat!!! In a message dated 10/30/2015 1:36:30 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, applecorey at optonline.net writes: I honestly don't remember. I know Woz sent me instructions on how to do it, this was a few years ago. I've just been cutting and pasting the competed signature since then, so I forgot. Maybe I can dig up the instructions over the weekend. FYI. I just got the daily digest on my other email and it apparently strips out the upside down stuff. Cheers, Corey corey cohen u??o? ???o? > On Oct 30, 2015, at 1:27 PM, COURYHOUSE at aol.com wrote: > > Welcome Corey! how did you get the upside down font in the email > sig? Ed# > > > > > In a message dated 10/30/2015 9:59:06 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, > applecorey at optonline.net writes: > > Well I finally setup a separate email address so I can receive individual > messages from cctalk instead of the daily digest which really doesn't lend > itself to posting back. > > Just wanted to say hi. > > Cheers, > Corey > > corey cohen > u??o? ???o?

10 years, 8 months

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Know any Fortran programmers who need a more interesting job?

by lproven＠gmail.com

?Why NASA Needs a Programmer Fluent In 60-Year-Old Languages To keep the Voyager 1 and 2 crafts going, NASA's new hire has to know FORTRAN and assembly languages. ? http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/a17991/voyager-1-voyager-2-retiring-e… -- Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) ? +420 702 829 053 (?R)

10 years, 8 months

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The list seems very quiet today

by rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com

The list seems very quiet to-day. I have had only one post this morning. Anybody know why? Rod Smallwood

10 years, 8 months

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Know any Fortran programmers who need a more interesting job?

by r_a_feldman＠hotmail.com

>From: "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfinedp3k at compsys.to> >Does anyone have any idea as to the actual hardware platform? > Jerome Fine >From http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/30/has_voyager_1_escaped_the_sun_yet_y…: "250 Khz General Electric 18-bit TTL CPUs, complete with single register accumulator and bit-serial access to 2096-word plated-wire RAM"

10 years, 8 months

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The list seems very quiet today

by cctalk＠beyondthepale.ie

Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote: > > On 30 October 2015 at 12:02, rod <rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote: > > The list seems very quiet to-day. > > I have had only one post this morning. > > Anybody know why? > > Is everybody off at the top-secret VCF-Paris? > Nah - VCF-Paris is just a decoy to distract the few who might have heard about the ultra secret VCF-Madrid. > On Fri, 30 Oct 2015, Liam Proven wrote: > > No replies to my message about NASA wanting Fortran programmers... > > extinct? or just too shameful? > Too busy trying to contact NASA to see if they are willing to take on someone telecommuting across the Atlantic Ocean (after all, the difference in distance to where the probes are now would not be of any significance). Regards, Peter Coghlan.

10 years, 8 months

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There's hope... and then there's aggressively optimistic

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

I love this person's style: http://www.ebay.com/itm/281835789336 It doesn't sell for $25? Fine, re-list it at $35! Noel

10 years, 8 months

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Front Panel Update

by rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com

Hi Guys I just got back from the meeting at the silk screen shop. They are going to start by printing ten PDP8/e panels with the details that are common to both A and B. I'm sending them a couple of overlays. One to convert the common panel to an A Type and the other to make it into a B type. Four A type and Three B type are sold. This means I have three slots left that can become either an A or a B. Same goes for 8/f and 8/m . They will print up to the common point and an overlay will turn it into either an /f or /m This time the stock will be a bit better. Two /f have gone so eight slots are available to become a /f or a /m So to be able to make an 8/e Type A or Type B takes One precut perspex sheet, One screen for each color (two) One screen for the white One matte finish coating Two screens for the overlays One screen for the lamp view ports on the back. Total six silk screens Then I'll add in packing and shipping cost. I'll freeze the order on Monday Then work out the unit price and add in packing and shipping cost. Then call for payment from those without prepaid orders. So there are three 8/e A or B slots and eight 8/f or 8/m slots available until Monday Rod Smallwood

10 years, 8 months

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Omnibus TSC8-75 schematic?

by rickb＠bensene.com

While there are documents out there that describe the function of the Educomp/Quodata TSC8-75 Timeshare System Controller for Omnibus PDP 8 machines, I have searched high and low, and there doesn't seem to be /any/ schematics for it anywhere. I know this was a proprietary board that did some pretty interesting things to trap IOT, JMP, JSR, and HLT/OSR instructions on the PDP 8/e/f/m/a machines and provide additional capabilities versus DEC's Memory Extension and Timeshare Control board. I have a fantasy of being able to run ETOS on real PDP 8/e hardware, but I don't have one of these boards, and they seem to be pretty much unobtainium. There are a few of them out there, but obviously, the owners of these aren't in the mood to submit them for reverse engineering. Perhaps someone out there has already done this, or someone has documentation on the board that may include schematics that simply hasn't scanned it yet. Bitsavers comes up with nothing under the DEC archives, and there's no sign of Quodata or Educomp folders. I have read the descriptions of the function of the board, and the IOTs that make it do its things, but I just don't have the expertise on the guts of the Omnibus PDP 8 machines to be able to take this information and create a design for a board that performs these functions. I've also looked at the code in SimH that emulates the functionality of the board, but again, it isn't enough information for me to be able to figure out how to implement it in hardware. In any case, I think it'd be interesting to see if one of these boards could be reproduced. I've found some old ClassicCMP list archives that mention some stuff about ETOS documentation and folks that worked for Educomp/Quodata that were involved in the creation of ETOS and this board, but the thread died over 10 years ago. I am probably wishing for something that doesn't exist, but I figured I'd ask anyway, as maybe someone has stumbled across some of this stuff and just hasn't made it public yet. Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Museum http://oldcalculatormuseum.com

10 years, 8 months

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The list seems very quiet today

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Rod Smallwood > The list seems very quiet to-day. I have had only one post this > morning. Anybody know why? They're all tired out from the large amount of traffic over the past couple of days? ;-) But seriously, it's not quite 9AM yet now, on the US East Coast (and I would guess the plurality of list members are in the US), so that's almost certainly part of it, too. Noel

10 years, 8 months

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Front Panels - Update

by rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com

Hi Guys As per previous update I'm off to my silk screen printers today. Thanks to lots of help from list members I have identified most of the different PDP8/e panel types that exist. 1. PDP-8/e Type A: Selector switch starts from _vertical (12 o'clock)_ position There _is _a white line around the selector switch area. There are _no _vertical dividers between groups of three lamps 2. PDP-8/e Type B: Selector switch starts from _-15deg (11 o'clock)_ position There is _no_ white line around the selector switch area. There _are_ vertical dividing lines between groups of three lamps 3. PDP-8/f: White border and masthead with DEC logo and address Layout differs from 8/e but lamps and switches retain their positions Otherwise color scheme as per 8/e and address Corners on text and color area are rounded off. There is a pdp8/f logo to the right of the RUN light 4. PDP-8/m: White border and masthead with DEC logo and address Layout differs from 8/e but lamps and switches retain their positions Otherwise color scheme as per 8/e Corners on text and color area are rounded off. There is a pdp8/m logo to the right of the RUN light 5. PDP-8/lab (Anybody want one of these?) 6. PDP-8/industrial (Anybody want one of these?) All panels share a common basic clear plastic blank with pre-cut switch positions I intend to have both 8/e and 8/f plus 8/m (ie two designs) printed with just shared features. The detail that makes them different will be added later. I'll ask for a matte finish. I'll tighten up the QA on how the lines delineate the holes. I'll sort out the lock and switch hole positions (coordinates from the cutouts would help if you have them) *_Work in progress_* 11/4X,11/5X,11/6X and 11/7X *_Under consideration_* Best way to produce Large, Custom and non - DEC panels I'm sure I have missed things off and just as sure somebody will tell me! Rod Smallwood

10 years, 8 months

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Honeywell "Teletype"

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

it would only be reasonable if you needed it to compete a display that used that particular cased unit. adn you really had to have it... otherwise as a 33 it is vastly overpriced! Ed# In a message dated 10/29/2015 2:27:54 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, unclefalter at yahoo.ca writes: I was kind of eyeing this too but the shipping is a problem. I didn't know Teletype did the 'private label' kind of thing? So $2500 is reasonable for something like that? -----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of David Williams Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2015 1:02 PM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Honeywell "Teletype" > > That looks pretty clean. I haven't seen one in the UK at anywhere near that price. Looking at US prices its almost worth shipping if I could find a set of 50hz gears.... > They do pop up now and then. I actually purchased mine though Ebay, last year for ?300. The seller originally had it listed for ?500 but had no bidders. Cheers, Dave ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.6172 / Virus Database: 4450/10864 - Release Date: 10/21/15 Internal Virus Database is out of date.

10 years, 8 months

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Massey Dickinson - help identify

by mail.nickallen＠gmail.com

Looking for help identifying these 2 pieces of Massey Dickinson equipment. I was told this machine is a trainer of sorts, but have my doubts: https://goo.gl/photos/ktBMTiYXxLZd8dH1A But per the research I have done, the only reference of Massey Dickinson and PDP8s are for Data Acquisition, I assume that is what this machine is for (was interfaced to a PDP8i): https://goo.gl/photos/cqwTHmb6QhGKfgwy9 Thanks everyone! -Nick

10 years, 8 months

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Honeywell "Teletype"

by jws＠jwsss.com

I'm curious. This auction appears to be for an ASR33 in a Honeywell box. If so $1200 is way too much for a funny case unless you like plastic with "Honeywell" on it. Any ideas? RARE-Vintage-Honeywell-Teletype-Machine http://www.ebay.com/itm/201442852051 Thanks Jim

10 years, 8 months

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Trying to get my RLV11 working

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Ben Sinclair > A while back I was talking to someone else who suggested using a ribbon > cable from the controller to directly inside the drive. I've heard that suggestion too... > That technically will fit if I remove the ribbon inside the drive that > goes to the external connectors, but then I won't have a terminator > installed. I do have a terminator though! The cable from the CPU would have to have two connectors on the RL02 end; one would plug into the drive's logic board, and the other to the outbound connector, where you can plug in the terminator. AFAIK that cable is purely a bus (i.e. no radial per-drive wires), so you should just be able to run it to the second connector, no issue. However, I'm too lazy to check to make sure that's absolutely 100% accurate. :-) > I think what I really need, since I don't have a cab kit or anything, > is a bc80m, which I believe is a ribbon with a ground lug on the > controller side, and whatever type of connector the drive uses on the > other end. I think you mean a Berg connector which will plug directly into the RLV11, not "ground lug", right? Yes, if you don't have a cab kit, that's the cable you need. It's not a ribbon cable, but a round cable (the connectors the drives use only come in regular cable form, not ribbon cable - AFAIK). > Not that I can even find a cable like that anywhere currently... RLOx cables of _any_ kind are very hard to find. There are discussions under way about making new ones; there is a supply (used) of the wierd-ass connector that plugs into the back of the drive which could be used. > I unfortunately don't have an extender card... Others have pointed you at Douglas; here's the page for all their extender cards: http://www.douglas.com/index.php/off-the-shelf-solutions/bread-boards-by-fu… which includes a hex, but those aren't any use (that I can think of) to people with QBUS machines. (Useful things to have it you're trying to maintain a vintage PDP-11; one is, perforce, forced to become one's own Field Circus person - unless you're lucky and happen to live close to a PDP-11 hardware expert who's willing to come salve one's machine.) > From: Johnny Billquist > Well, not important. We're now beyond that point. The boards are > working well enough that we can address them... Well, but he might still have a problem on them. Although fixing such would be a challenge... Noel

10 years, 8 months

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Trying to get my RLV11 working

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Ben Sinclair > the bc80m cable .. which I believe is a ribbon type of connector with a > ground strap on one end, then a round cable to the berg connector for > the back of the RL02. I think it's the cable pictured here: > http://www.cosam.org/computers/dec/pdp11-23/20080403.html Yes, that's the cable. But there's no ribbon cable anywhere in it: the individual wires from the round cable go directly to the Berg (aka Du Pont) female connector, which plugs into the male Berg header on the board. The other end does not have a Berg connector, it's some sort of wierd-ass connector that I don't know the proper name for. (The RK0[67] also uses them, and I think maybe the MASSBUS too?) > The RLV11 and RLV12 seem hard to find, at least on eBay They come by occasionally. I can probably find an RLV12 for you if you want/need one. > so fixing this one might be the way to go! Fixing an RLV11 is not for hardware beginners. Think logic analyzer, at least. > From: Johnny Billquist > I would primarily expect 16 bits addresses to be used on a KDF-11, but > I could be wrong. 11/23 ODT addresses are always 18-bit (whether the MMU chip is installed or not); I don't know if attempting to look at memory above 56KB works without the MMU, though. > Early revisions only supported 18 bit addressing, but later models > supported 22 bit addressing. But how that is reflected in the micro-ODT > on a KDF-11 I don't know. I already bitched about this! Although it supports Q22 _on the bus_, their ODT only supports Q18. There's no way to fiddle with high memory, except via program! > I don't even know if it's actually micro-ODT, or some more primitive > console mode on that CPU. AFAIK, it's the same ODT as all the other QBUS -11's (03, 73, etc - although the /03 has the 'L' bootloader command that none of the others do, along with a couple of other odd minor ones like '@'). Noel

10 years, 8 months

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Trying to get my RLV11 working

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Ben Sinclair > According to the Microcomputer Interfaces Handbook, my H9273 backplane > should be all ABCD. Yup, that was one of the first things I checked - whilst realizing that if it wasn't, it was too late... :-) > Am I correct in that I shouldn't have any problem using the RLV11 in > that backplane? Not that I am aware of. Noel

10 years, 8 months

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