- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

anyone have a working RV-20 or RV-64?

by aek＠bitsavers.org

we have a bunch of optical packs at CHM that we'd like to archive does anyone have a working setup?

10 years, 3 months

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PDP-8/a parts, 8 inch CDC floppy drives, 5.25 inch FH Tandon drives, TI SilentWriter, DECprinter I, LA30

by mattislind＠gmail.com

I saw that there were a post on PDP-8/a systems (and parts). I have a few 8A100 chassis. These are H9300 with a G8016 regulator board. No CPU, no memory, no frontpanels. Just the H9300 chassis including the 10 slot backplane, the 50Hz transformer assembly and the G8016 MOS memory regulator. BTW. The backup batteries are probably not in good shape any longer. Nothing is tested so capacitors etc might need checking. There are also some G8018 regulators, 50 Hz transformers for 8A400/8A600/8A800 boxes, 50 Hz transformers for 8A420/8A620/8A820 boxes (these are really very heavy). Then there are two CDC / IMI floppy drives. BR8A5D. Single sided. 8 inch. http://i.imgur.com/cMp76YA.jpg http://i.imgur.com/EA91ayu.jpg http://i.imgur.com/pWpmdX6.jpg http://i.imgur.com/eP3m06n.jpg They are in the original box. Not sure if these are new or not. They look fine. But haven't tested them. I might be able to test if there are interest. Then two Tandon TM100-3 Single sided 80 tracks / 96 TPI drives. Tested working. http://i.imgur.com/UOnHNNI.jpg http://i.imgur.com/F4ypilz.jpg We have one too many of TI SlientWriters. I have no picture of it currently. But is som 7XX model I think. Printing on thermo paper. Interest? We have a few DECprinter I aka LA180. A manual can be included as well... And since we got one LA30 working just fine, we don't need another one. There is one DECwriter / LA30 available. It is complete but will probably need care and attention to get working. Everything is located in Sweden so shipping can be rather expensive for heavier items. Trade for something interesting... /Mattis

10 years, 3 months

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PDP 8A for sale

by sellam＠vintagetech.com

I have a PDP 8A for sale. It's kind of a project but as far as I can tell it's complete, with the front panel. See photos and information here: http://vintagetech.com/sales/Big%20Iron/PDP%208a/Chassis%201/ Asking price is $900 obo. I also have two other PDP 8A systems in various states of disrepair here: Complete boardset and chassis without front panel - asking $450 obo http://vintagetech.com/sales/Big%20Iron/PDP%208a/Chassis%202/ Junk system for parts/serious restoration - asking $300 obo http://vintagetech.com/sales/Big%20Iron/PDP%208a/Chassis%203/ Also please start here and navigate for more computers I presently have for sale: http://vintagetech.com/sales/ Please inquire directly with me with any questions. Thanks! -- Sellam Abraham VintageTech ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintagetech.com Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. The truth is always simple. * * * NOTICE * * * Due to the insecure nature of the medium over which this message has been transmitted, no statement made in this writing may be considered reliable for any purpose either express or implied. The contents of this message are appropriate for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. The right of the people to be secure in their papers against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated.

10 years, 3 months

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ACE Key codes (xx2247 etc.)

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

The decoding of the DEC PDP XX2247 keys has been discussed, but I have not yet seen decoding for others. To repeat the data for XX2247, that is 5173757 assuming 7-1 with a center offset To add to that knowledge, I'm checking other keys I have. Note - I'm sure of the XX values of course but the codes have not been tested/confirmed yet; I will do so and report back. For every Data General Nova (800, 1200, 1220, 2) & Eclipse (S/130, S/200) that I have, those keys are all stamped XX2065. The coding appears to be 1353757 (7-1, center offset) For every HP 2100 that I have, those keys are all stamped XX2946. The coding appears to be 4557457 (7-1, center offset). Of course, the advantage is that copies of copies tend to get off, and with the original code we can all get "original tolerance" keys. While I'm testing/confirming the codes for XX2065 and XX2946, can anyone with stamped DG Nova/Eclipse keys or stamped HP2100 keys confirm if their XX numbers are all the same? I've got enough of each that I'm fairly sure those keys fit all of those systems, but wanted to check. Are there other common systems that used Ace keys that we should document besides XX2247, XX2065, and XX2946? I should probably toss up a quick website under classiccmp if so. J

10 years, 3 months

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Front Panels - Update

by rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com

Hello Guys The latest batch of PDP-8 panels are now reaching their new owners. We held shipping until now to make sure we had good product. The only way you can check the quality is to go through the whole production cycle We threw a fair few in the dumpster! We did extra on the current run and there may be some 8/e Type B (After the switch change) available. Next up are PDP-8/f and /m to fulfill existing orders. I will be making for stock after fulfilling the current order book . My policy is to ship from prepackaged stock. We have loads of custom boxes and soft wrap. We intend to hold manufacturing cycle stock numbers This means if takes three weeks to make a batch we will stock three weeks sales. I'll publish the stock position once a week or by email order enquiry We will be stocking: 8/e A (pre switch change) 8/e B (post switch change) 8/f (maynard address) 8/f (galway address) 8/m (maynard address) 8/m (galway address) Later pdp11/XX Order cycle should be same/next day dispatch against item in stock and PayPal transfer Delivery to UK next day, Europe 1-3 days and the US 2-5days Currency exchange rates are moving all the time and may affect costs. OEM quantities for reproduction makers of any panel, any manufacturer may be possible. (Email me) Bespoke one off for major restorations - email me. Rod Smallwood (Panelman)

10 years, 3 months

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NetBSD TK70 question

by cc＠informatik.uni-stuttgart.de

I'm not sure where I should start asking, so I'm starting here ;-) I have a problem reading TK70 (and probably TK50) tapes in NetBSD 3.0 on a MicroVAX II. There is absolutely no way of reading a single tape block with a simple read(). All I get is mt0: unknown opcode 0x80 status 0xc01 ignored on the console, and then the driver hangs. The output is generated in /usr/src/sys/dev/mscp/mscp.c It is my impression that the code has *never* been tested on real hardware after all that years. BTW the TK70 is working fine otherwise (e.g. I can boot the MVII diagnostic tape). Now for something strange: the same procedure works in SimH (with the same system installation and kernel). So apparently SimH has a "bug", too. It doesn't behave like the real device. Background of the story: I want to image TK70 tapes as TAP files. Has anyone ever encountered the same behaviour? Christian

10 years, 3 months

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MEM11A Update

by ggs＠shiresoft.com

Just wanted to let folks know where the MEM11A (as opposed to the UMF11) is. All of the verilog code is written for the CPLD and I?ve simulated full unibus transactions to the FRAM and everything seems to work. I?m almost done with schematic entry. I just have a few things to clean up and verify. I?ve done basic component placement (still have to finish placing the 40+ bypass capacitors). I?m planning on doing a 4 layer board so I can avoid having routing issues due to 3 different power supply voltages (yea, modern low voltage design meets 5v). I haven?t done a 4 layer design before, so I?m in for a bit of learning (mainly on how to ?pour? the inner layers). I?m still undecided if I?m going to place some (or all) of the bypass caps on the backside of the board. It would make things easier especially around the 100pin CPLD. At this point I?m hoping to FAB a set of prototype boards in about a month from now (mid to late April). I?ll hand populate a couple (total prototype FAB run will ~5 boards) and test them out. I?ll be using my 11/34, 11/40 and possibly my 11/20 for testing these so there should be pretty good coverage. I should know pretty quickly after I?ve started debugging the prototypes what the price will be for the assembled & tested boards. I?ll start taking orders then. I?ve also decided that the Unibus interface IC?s will be socketed (mainly I don?t want to deal with the ?wastage? from the assembly house for NLA parts). It also means that if some of my stock don?t work, it?s an ?easy? fix. For those that care, I?ll be using machined pin sockets (gold plated of course). Any for any that ask, no I will *not* be making the boards available without the drivers. I?ll be providing fully assembled and tested boards. TTFN - Guy

10 years, 3 months

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Honneywell multics? from panels. the inline phots in this message folks -smecc

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: David Bridgham > how the GE processor mapped each segment to physical memory on its own > while the x86 maps the segments into a single 2^32 byte linear address > space first and then maps that to physical memory. Oh, right, I remember there was a 4GB limit on physical memory (which I mentioned in an earlier message in this thread), but I'd forgotten the details. The paging is done on that 4GB linear address space, so it's separate from segmentation - on the 645 at least, the two are jumbled in together, which I find over-complex. I like the clean separation between paging and segments. > The x86 got this one wrong, in my opinion, as it means you can't have > full-sized segments if you have more than one effective segment. Well, but that's in the implementation, invisible to the user (in a properly done OS). The user-visible architecture is 16K segments (8K local, 8K global), of up to 4G each, or 2^46 total address space (per process). Yes, not more than 4GB of them can be resident in memory at any one time, but I'm not convinced that's a problem. Noel

10 years, 3 months

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ISO: VAX-11/75

by seefriek＠gmail.com

> My call for a VAX-11/750 a month or so ago actually bore some fruit > (locally, even!) and as of a couple of weeks ago, I now have a very > nicely configured 11/750 system taking up most of the basement. Some guys have all the luck. Now if anyone in the Southeast has a 750 they're no longer attached to... Congrats KJ

10 years, 3 months

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PDP-11/05-NC with M9301?

by mattislind＠gmail.com

I was thinking of using a M9301 board to get a console emulator and some different bootstraps with the 11/05. But can I just put the M9301 in the slot where the M930 normally goes? Slot 4 AB. >From looking in the schematics I get that: 1. The bus grant pull ups on the M9301 is through jumpers. According to the note they should only be installed on 11/70 systems. But the M930 do pull these up (no jumpers here) so my guess is that these jumpers should be installed. 2. The M930 connects much more signals to a common ground. Except for the normal ones the M9301 uses for ground (AC2, BC2, AT1 and BT1) it also has connected AB2, BB2, AN1, AP1, AR1, AS1, AV2, BD1, BE1, BV2 to ground. Reading the pin assignments on a MUD slot I think that putting a M930 into it could potentially create a lot of smoke. BV2 is -5V and AV2 is +20V if the appropriate regulator is in the system. M9301 goes into MUD slots. But can it go into the slot where a M930 normally sits? My thinking is that it should work. What is your experience? /Mattis

10 years, 3 months

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Honneywell multics? from panels. the inline phots in this message folks -smecc

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Charles Anthony > Slightly at cross purposes here; I was speaking of porting Multics; you > are speaking of writing a Multics like OS. I was opining that I don't > think that porting would work due to Multics reliance on very specific > VM features. Yes; my un-stated assumption was that the existing Multics code was so tied to the peculiar Multics hardware (how many instances of "fixed bin(18)" do you think there are in the Multics source :-) that it would be impossible to run on any modern hardware except via (as you have so wonderfully done) emulation. Hence the re-implementation route... >> I think the x86 has more or less what one needs Intesting note here: I was just reading Schell's oral history (a _fascintating_ document), and it turns out he was a consultant to Intel on the 286 (which architecture the later machines more or less copied exactly, extending it to 32 bits). So I'm no longer surprised that the x86 has more or less what one needs! :-) >> Well, Multics had (IIRC) 4 segment registers, one for the code, one >> for the stack, one for the linkage segment, and I don't remember >> what the 4th one was used for. I pulled down one of my many copies of Organick, and I had misremembered the details (and of course Organick describes the 645, not the 6180, which was subtly different). The code has its own set of registers; the PBR/IC (I was probably thinking of the x86's CS here). Of the four pointer-register pairs (which are effectively pointers to any segment, i.e. 'far' pointers, in a sense), two are indeed to the stack and linkage segments, and the others can be used for other things - one is typically a pointer to subroutine arguments. > 8 pointer registers .. > PL1 calling conventions reseverved certain regsiters for frame pointer, > etc. Yes, I got the 6180 processor manual, and a bunch of other things, and there had been significant changes since the 645 (which is the version I was somewhat familiar with, from Organick). Of the 8 pointer registers in the 6180, I was only able to find the usage of several: 0 - arguments 4 - linkage 6 - stack frame 7 - stack/linkage header I assume the others (most?/all?) were available for use by the compiler, as temporaries. One apparent big change in Multics since Organick was that the stack and linkage segments had been combined into one (not sure why, as I don't think having one less segment in the KST made much difference, and it didn't save any pointer registers); the header in the combined stack/linkage segment contained pointers to each in the combined segment. >> You wouldn't want to put them all in the same segment - that's the >> whole point of the single-level-store architecture! :-) Or perhaps I'm >> misunderstanding your point, here? > It's been a long time since I look at the x86 segment model, but my > recollection is that segments were mapped into the address space of the > process; that is not how the Multics memory model worked. Each segment > is in it's own address space; any memory reference was, per force, a > segment number and offset. In this last sentence, is that referring to Multics? If so, that is exactly how the x86 _hardware_ works, but most x86 OS's (in particular, all the Unix derivatives) don't really use segments, they just stick everything in a limited number of segments (one for code, one for all data - maybe one more for the stack, although perhaps they map those two to the same memory). > I am unconvinced that Multics could be ported to that architecture No disagreement there - "fixed bin (18)"! > an interesting Multics like operating system should be possible Exactly. > with he caveat that some things are going to have be done differently > due to incompatibilities in the memory model. I'm not so sure - I think you may be thinking that the x86 model is something other than what it is. It does indeed not have the infinite inter-segment pointer chaining possible on Multics hardware (where a pointer in memory points to another pointer which points to another pointer), but other than that, it does seem to have most of what is needed. In particular, it has local and global segment tables (indexed by segment number), and the ability to load pointer registers out of those tables, and the ability to have most (all?) instructions use particular pointer registers (including segment selection), e.g. if the linkage segment was pointed to by the ES register, there is an optional (per-instruction instance) modifier which causes most (all?) of the normal x86 instruction set to operate on that segment, instead of the primary data segment (pointed to by the DS register). Of course, until we get into the details, we can't say positively, but after reading the manuals, it seemed like it was doable. Noel

10 years, 3 months

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LAST CHANCE for VCF East exhibit registration

by cctalk＠snarc.net

Everyone, There is less than one month until showtime. I'm declaring noon ET tomorrow as the final deadline for registering exhibits. Exhibits so far: http://vcfed.org/wp/festivals/vintage-computer-festival-east/vcf-east-exhib… Exhibit registration: http://www.vcfed.org/registration/east_exhibitor_register-online.php

10 years, 3 months

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PDP-11/05-NC with M9301?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Mattis Lind > I was thinking of using a M9301 board to get a console emulator and > some different bootstraps with the 11/05. But can I just put the M9301 > in the slot where the M930 normally goes? > ... > M9301 goes into MUD slots. But can it go into the slot where a M930 > normally sits? I haven't personally looked into doing this in detail, so I can't give a definitive answer, but your last question here makes alarm bells go off in my head. The M930 is designed to go in UNIBUS In/Out slots. These slots do have different wiring from the A/B MUD slots. (For instance, UNIBUS In/Out slots have _single_ pins assigned for BG4-7 and NPG, providing 'grant in' or 'grant out' functionality, depending on if it's an In or Out slot. I don't recall offhand what function/signal is on those pins in a MUD slot, but I'm pretty sure it's not a grant!) I would be fairly astonished if a device intended for a MUD slot would work in a UNIBUS In/Out slot, and vice versa. Noel

10 years, 3 months

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Honneywell multics? from panels. the inline phots in this message folks -smecc

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Mouse > As for buffer overruns, the point there is that a buffer overrun > clobbers memory addressed higher than the buffer. If the stack grows > down, this can overwrite stack frames and/or callers' locals. Oh, right. Duhhhh! Buffers typically grow upward, no matter which direction the stack grows. So the two directions for stack growth aren't purely a convention. Of course, in Multics, especially with AIM (Access Isolation Mechanism), stack buffer attacks are much less dangerous. E.g. even without AIM, the attacker can't load code into the stack, and return to it - generally the stack segment had execute permission turned off. And AIM really limits what 'bad' code can get up to. I keep ranting about it's pointless to expect programmers to write code without security flaws, it needs to be built in to the low levels of the system (one of Multics' many lessons - it wasn't _really_ secure until the 6180 moved the ring stuff into hardware, instead of simulating it in software, as on the 645). And so as long as we continue to allow Web pages to contain 'active' content (i.e. code), so that random code from all over the planet gets loaded into our computers and run, browsers will neve be secure; they need to be run in an AIM box. Noel

10 years, 3 months

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Honneywell multics? from panels. the inline phots in this message folks -smecc

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Mouse >> simulating a segmented machine on a non-segmented machine, i.e. one >> with large unidirectional addresses (segmented being a >> bi-directionally addressed machine) - [...] > Hm, "unidirectional" and "bidirectional" are terms I'm having trouble > figuring out the meaning of here. You seem to be using them as, > effectively, synonyms for "non-segmented" and "segmented" Yes. > but I don't see any way in which directionality makes any sense for > either, so I can only infer I'm missing something. Imagine a graphic model of the memory in non-segmented, and segmented, machines. The former can be modeled as a linear array of memory cells - hence 'uni-directional'. The latter can be modelled by a two-dimensional array - segment number along one axis, word/byte within segment on the other - hence 'bi-directional'. Maybe 'uni-axis' or 'bi-axis' would have been a bit more techically correct, but 'uni-directional' and 'bi-directional' were the first terms that came to mind - and I didn't think of how they could be confusing (in terms of their common meanings, when used for flows). Sorry! Noel PS: I'm trying to remember all my thoughts about simulating a segmented memory with a large flat address space. One was that one can prevent pointer incrementing from 'walking' from one segment into another by leaving a 'guard band' of a few empty pages between each 'segment'. However, this points out an issue with such simulation: one cannot easily grow a 'segment' once another 'segment' has been assigned space above it.

10 years, 3 months

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OT: where I've landed

by isking＠uw.edu

Hi all, I informed the list when I left the Living Computer Museum, so it seems appropriate to tell you where I've landed. My new employer was in the news this week: http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/03/behind-the-curtain-ars-goes-inside-b… The second photo is the view from where I ate lunch yesterday. The fun literally never stops.... living the dream! -- Ian PS: of course I'm finishing my doctorate - I'm kind of vested in it by now. :-) -- Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate The Information School <http://ischool.uw.edu> Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical Narrative Through a Design Lens Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal <http://tribunalvoices.org> Value Sensitive Design Research Lab <http://vsdesign.org> University of Washington There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

10 years, 3 months

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OKI if800 CP/M

by silent700＠gmail.com

Does anyone have, or has anyone used, one of these machines? Specifically the M10/M20 models, with 5.25" disks? I have a vendor box here with manual and CP/M 2.2 boot disk for the if800 and I've been trying to make a usable[1] image of the disk, currently with the Kryoflux and their dtc conversion tool. I sent the flux reads of the disk off to the KF team and they found it interesting enough to study, but there is precious little documentation out there about this machine, much less its disk format. Looking at the scatter plots of the magnetic flux on the disk, I can see that it's 40 track and double sided. Converting the dump to a DS/DD MFM disk image yields many warnings and errors, but also a file with plenty of discernible strings, so that's at least on the right track. Images of reads of the two sides done separately show alternating fragments of the strings of the full read, telling me that it is a contiguous volume using both sides and not two single-sided volumes. One ad I found (mostly in Japanese,) suggests that the if800 drives are 280K. That's an odd number (to me) for a 5.25" disk. -j [1] I have neither the real machine nor an emulator to use them, so this is mostly just an academic exercise in learning about disk formats and disk imaging, for now. But AIUI, if the disk's attributes are known, it should be browsable with a tool like cpmls from the CPMTools package.

10 years, 3 months

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DEC RK05 Emergency Retract Batteries

by bob＠theadamsons.co.uk

Interestingly(?) both my RK05 and RK05J had an assembly of 3, not 4, 2/3rd AA NiCd cells for retract, completely decayed of course. I replaced them with 3 discrete tagged NiMh AA cells (plenty of headroom) soldered and shrinkwrapped. They work fine, lots of retract force. The clip which holds them is shaped for only 3 cells so it seems as though there were at least 2 variants. I read the circuit diagram and could see that it would make little difference whether it was NiCd or NiMh (or for that matter 3 or 4 cells). I think DEC were a bit overgenerous with the trickle current (though IIRC NiCds were rather leakier back then). > From: tony duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> > > The DEC RK07 (and I assume RK06) used 8 1/2 AA cells in a pack (like > 2 RK05 retract batteries in series). When I replaced those, I used 2 of > the cordless telephone batteries (that have been recommended for > the RK05) in series. > > -tony

10 years, 3 months

5
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Honneywell multics? from panels. the inline phots in this message folks -smecc

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Charles Anthony > I desperately want to port Multics to a modern architecture Funny you should mention this! Dave Bridgham and my 'other' project (other than the QSIC) is something called iMucs, which is a Multics-like OS for Intel x86 machines. The reason for the x86 machines is that i) they have decent segmentation support (well, not the very latest model, which dropped it since nobody was using it), and ii) they are common and cheap. The concept is to pretty much redo Multics, in C, on the x86. The x86's segmentation support is adequate, not great. The Multics hardware had all those indirect addressing modes that the compiler will have to simulate, but the machines are now so freakin' fast (see simulated PDP-11's running at 100 times the speed of the fastest real ones - on antique PC's), that shouldn't be a huge problem. We did identify some minor lossage (e.g. I think the maximum real memory you can support is only a couple of GB), but other than that, it's a pretty good match. The x86 even has rings, and the description sounds like it came out of the Multics hardware manual! Although I have to say, I'm not sure rings sare what I would pick for a protection model - I think something like protection domains, with SUID, are better. (So that e.g. a cross-process callable subsystem with 'private' data could have that data marked R/W only to that user ID. In 'pure' Multics, one can move the subsystem/data into a lower ring to give it _some_ protection - but it still has to be marked R/W 'world', albeit only in that lower ring, for other processes to be able to call the subsystem.) It will need specialized compiler support for cross-segment routine calls, pointers, etc, but I have a mostly-written C compiler that I did (CNU CC is large pile, I wouldn't touch it with a barge-pole) that I can re-purpose. And we'll start with XV6 to get a running start. There would be Standard I/O, and hopefully also something of a Unix emulation, so we could take advantage of a lot of existing software. Anyway, we've been focused on the QSIC (and for me, getting my 11's running), but we hope to start on iMucs in the late spring, when Dave heads off to Alaska, and QSIC work goes into a hiatus. Getting the compiler finished is step 1. > but there is a profound road-block: the way that Multics does virtual > memory is very, very different, and just does not map onto current > virtual memory architecture. You refer here, I assume, to the segmentation stuff? > then you need to extend the instruction set to support the clever > indirect address exceptions that allow directed faults and linkage > offset tables I think the x86 has more or less what one needs (although, as I say, some of the more arcane indirect modes would have to be simulated). Although my memory of the details of the x86 is a bit old, and I've only ever studied the details of how Multics did inter-segment stuff (in Organick, which doesn't quite correspond to Multics as later actually implemented). > Then there is subtle issue in the way the Multics does the stack .. > This means that stack addresses, heap address and data addresses are > all in separate address spaces Well, Multics had (IIRC) 4 segment registers, one for the code, one for the stack, one for the linkage segment, and I don't remember what the 4th one was used for. (I don't think Multics had 'heap' and 'data' segments as somone might read those terms; a Multics process would have had, in its address space, many segments to which it had R/W access and in which it kept data.) But the x86 has that many, and more, so it should be workable, and reasonably efficient. > I think it is possible to move them all into the same space You wouldn't want to put them all in the same segment - that's the whole point of the single-level-store architecture! :-) Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point, here? > Also, Multics stacks grow upward -- great for protection against buffer > overrun attacks, but a pain in a modern architecture. Sorry, I don't follow that? Why does the stack growth direction make a difference? It's just a convention, isn't it, which direction is 'push' and which is 'pop'? Noel

10 years, 3 months

4
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Honneywell multics? from panels. the inline phots in this message folks -smecc

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Mouse > Well, what was the largest virtual memory space available on various > machines? I have thought, on occasion, about simulating a segmented machine on a non-segmented machine, i.e. one with large unidirectional addresses (segmented being a bi-directionally addressed machine) - in fact, I think it was in the context of the VAX that I went through this mentally. I don't recall any more the exact outcome of my mental design processes (it was a _long_ time ago), but I have this vague recollection that it could sort of work, but that it would be ugly (as in, the compiler would have to simulate cross-segment pointers, etc - they don't look just like normal pointers as there has to be provision for binding them when first used, etc). > Now that 64-bit address space is becoming common Large unidirectional machines do have one advantage, which is that the canonical flaw of single-level-storage on a segmented machine is that really large objects don't fit in a single segment, unless you have ridiculously large addresses (e.g. 80 bit). When simulating segments on a unidirectional machine, one can of course make any individual segment as large as one likes - up to the total size of the unidirctional machine's address space. Noel

10 years, 3 months

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Fw: Trashed PDP-11/70 system for sell in Pittsburgh

by tosteve＠yahoo.com

See below::: > >> On Feb 23, 2016, at 5:24 PM, Christopher Eddy <ceddy at nb.net> wrote: >> >> I have an 11/70 that I want to find a new home for.. >> 11/70 CPU chassis, with CPU rack and cards in place. The CPU control panel is damaged.. all of the toggle caps and switches have been smashed. No paper or tape drives. >> 11/70 memory chassis, with rack and cards in place. >> Also, I have a separate 11/70 rack, with no cards, but with a control panel attached. Many WW pins are bent. The caps and switches are again very damaged. >> I have not powered it, and don't think that I should. I am partway through a couple of projects to restore it, mainly a project to replace the power supplies with PC style supplies, and another project to replace the switch panel with a touch panel + USB that would allow the unit to operate without the switches. I did not complete either project. >> As it is an incomplete system, or at least the CPU/memory is there, but not complete enough to operate, I was planning to augment it with these projects in order to operate it as is. >> The ribbon cables that join CPU to memory were just cut in two. >> Someone was very rough with it. >> I would like to sell it to someone that wants to proceed with the restoration of it.. but have no idea where to begin. >> I am in Pittsburgh. >> Thanks! >> Chris~ >> 412-369-9920 >> 412-916-7664 >>

10 years, 3 months

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Computer for sale

by sellam＠vintagetech.com

I am raising capital for a forthcoming venture dealing with vintage computers and thus am putting the following systems up for sale. Please visit the URL for photos and information (located in the Information file, if applicable) for each system. All prices are negotiable. PDP 8A System 1: http://vintagetech.com/sales/Big%20Iron/PDP%208a/Chassis%201/ Asking $900 System 2: http://vintagetech.com/sales/Big%20Iron/PDP%208a/Chassis%202/ Asking $450 System 3: http://vintagetech.com/sales/Big%20Iron/PDP%208a/Chassis%203/ Asking $300 Heathkit H11 http://vintagetech.com/sales/Big%20Iron/Heathkit%20H11/ Asking $750 ADM 3A http://vintagetech.com/sales/ADM%203A/ Asking $250 Friden 132 http://vintagetech.com/sales/Friden%20132/ Asking $1,500 ATR8000 (Atari 800 Z80 coprocessor box for running CP/M) http://vintagetech.com/sales/Micros/ATR8000/ Asking $500 Digital Microsystems CP/M computer http://vintagetech.com/sales/Micros/Digital%20Microsystems/ Asking $350 Integrated Computer Systems Microprocessor Training Lab http://vintagetech.com/sales/Micros/Integrated%20Computer%20Systems/ Asking $400 SWTPC 6800 http://vintagetech.com/sales/Micros/SWTPC%206800/Information Asking $950 Teleram 3000 http://vintagetech.com/sales/Micros/Teleram%203000/ Asking $650 Fulcrum Computer Products IMSAI 8080 clone http://vintagetech.com/sales/S-100/Fulcrum/ Asking $1,200 MITS Modem boardset http://vintagetech.com/sales/S-100/MITS%20Modem/ Asking $250 Polymorphic Systems POLY-88 http://vintagetech.com/sales/S-100/Polymorphic%20Systems%20POLY88/ Asking $1,250 Wang 380K Programmable Calculator with 362E terminal http://vintagetech.com/sales/Wang%20362E/ Asking $1,100 Please also see additional systems for sale (including a pair of IBM 3420 tape drives with 3803 controller) in the photos here: http://vintagetech.com/sales/Big%20Iron/ Please inquiry directly for more information. Thanks! -- Sellam Abraham VintageTech ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintagetech.com Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. The truth is always simple. * * * NOTICE * * * Due to the insecure nature of the medium over which this message has been transmitted, no statement made in this writing may be considered reliable for any purpose either express or implied. The contents of this message are appropriate for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. The right of the people to be secure in their papers against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated.

10 years, 3 months

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A gold mine for anybody in Austin...

by barythrin＠gmail.com

Ditto. ?Talked to him last year some time. I think he's a nice guy and cou himself in a situation that any of us and some do end up in. ?Too much of a good thing. Funnier is i always read his posts and could pretty much copy and paste them as my own.? Either way i think he does have some nice gear but he knows like us the value and isn't looking to get rid of things afaik. Nothing wrong with that. At the time we talked we also spoke about trades being desirable more than cash flow. ? Not sure if he hangs out here or other forums.? <div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: George Currie <g at kurico.com> </div><div>Date:03/14/2016 10:52 AM (GMT-06:00) </div><div>To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> </div><div>Subject: Re: A gold mine for anybody in Austin... </div><div> </div>On Sun, 13 Mar 2016 18:50:56 -0500, James Vess <theevilapplepie at gmail.com> wrote: > Probably true, but it's a weekend and I have time to deal with it so > we > will just see how it goes, I have some hope but low expectations. > I've communicated with him in the past. He seems like a nice enough fellow, but IMHO the prices he was asking for his stuff was way to high. His ads have been in the local CL for a long time now, so I assume he's not in a big hurry to sell or let things go at firesale prices (though maybe it's been long enough now that he'd be more open to it).

10 years, 3 months

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Honneywell multics? from panels. the inline phots in this message folks -smecc

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Charles Anthony > I get bloody impressed just watching it on the emulator; doing it in a > production environment must have been spectacular. Even though I never did do any programming on Multics myself (I had an account on the MIT system, and logged in a bit), I still feel that _as an environment for system programming_, it's _still_ far ahead of almost all the available competition. Unix V6 at least had the grace of simplicity and incredibly small size; its descendants have lost that, and so to me Linux, for example, is entirely inferior to Multics. Which to me is a pretty awesome accomplishment, in a field as fast-moving as computers - the only thing that even vaguely compares is the A-12/SR-71, which today, 17 years after it retired in 1998 (it first flew in 1962), _still_ holds the record for the fastest air-breathing aircraft. There is one axis along which I concede that things have advanced since Multics, which is away from monolithic kernels - Multics is pretty much one big lump in ring 0, except a few things in ring 1. But the complete structing of the system around a segmented, single-level memory system (at least, in terms of the environment the user sees) is such a fantastic idea that I simply don't understand why that hasn't become the standard. (The ability to map files in, and DLL's, do get a lot of that power, but in an ad hoc, inelegant, and less powerful way.) A few now-defunct system (e.g Apollo) picked up on it, but the only OS today I know of based around the concept is the IBM i, the descendant of the Control Program Facility OS on the System/38. Sigh. (And apologies for the rant, it's one of my hot buttons.. :-) Noel

10 years, 3 months

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DEC RK05 Emergency Retract Batteries

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

We started working on the RK05 drive that is part of the PDP-12 at the RICM. The drve is very clean and in good condition. It will need new seals between the blower and the card cage, and between the plenum and the disk pack. I think that 1/2" and 1/4" weatherstrip from Home Depot will work fine. The NiCad batteries for emergency head retract are toast. These look like standard 1.2V 2/3AA 400mAh cells. It looks like some cordless phones use the same batteries so I can buy an assembled 4.8V battery pack. Any other suggestions for replacement batteries for the RK05? -- Michael Thompson

10 years, 3 months

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Giving away Garage full of computers

by linimon＠lonesome.com

Have you gotten any takers yet? I have a special soft spot for those Printros. mcl

10 years, 3 months

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Type 270 disk file on PDP-6

by spacewar＠gmail.com

I just was looking at the I/O device code assignments in the 1973 DECsystem-10 System Reference Manual, and happened to notice the entry for the Type 270 disk file used on the PDP-6. PDP-6 and PDP-10 device codes are three octal digits, of which the third digit can only be 0 or 4. The device code for the Type 270 is octal 270. Coincidence? :-)

10 years, 3 months

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Promac-P3 PAL/PROM programmer

by mark.kahrs＠gmail.com

I have a Promac-P3 PROM/PAL programmer. I'd like to get rid of it. I'll give it away, you just have to pay shipping. It includes a copy of the schematics. Send email offlist if interested.

10 years, 3 months

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Which RT-11 for an 11/03

by jhfinedp3k＠compsys.to

>Richard Cini wrote: >All ? > > To close this out, I want to report that with Malcolm?s and Mattis? help, I was able to get RT-11 v4 and v5.03 running on the H-11 using the TU58 emulator. > > Avoiding the gory details, the upshot is that there was a bus interrupt issue relating to how the cards were installed ? I had the slot numbering wrong so there was a gap between two cards. RT-11 started booting and then barfed during the boot. > > Once I moved the second SLU to the right position, RT-11 booted properly. So, now I have both RT-11 v4 and v5 running on the H-11. Hooray! > > Thanks to all who helped push me along on this. I did create a separate Heath page on my Web site for it. > >Rich > >-- >Rich Cini >http://www.classiccmp.org/cini >http://www.classiccmp.org/altair32 > Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now that you have a working system, will it be used to run any specific programs? Based on your descriptions, the most important aspect of the project was to get the H-11 system to run RT-11. What I am very curious about is what do you will do with the system now that it is running? >From what you have stated, both stock versions of RT-11, V04.00 and V05.03, are being used rather than the Heath supplied versions of RT-11. Can you please confirm this assumption? As for the interrupt problems, using an M9047 bus grant card would probably also have solved the problem - if you have one. At this point, do you have any other storage other than the emulated TU58? If so, is it a Heath product or a real DEC product and which storage is it? Jerome Fine

10 years, 3 months

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VMS/RSTS/RSX manuals available, SOC, DECdirect books, Newmarket UK

by binarydinosaurs＠gmail.com

Folks, We're refitting the last unrefitted office here and there's a full bookcase of grey heading for the skip unless anyone wants to take them away? Must admit in the 12 years I've worked here I didn't realise there was a shelf of RSTS manuals! Deadline is late next week so thurs/fri 17/18th. -- adrian/witchy Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest home computer collection? www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk

10 years, 3 months

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Dumping Images of my VAX-11/730's Drives?

by nf6x＠nf6x.net

This thread is a parallel discussion to a VCF thread that I started last night: http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?51653-Dumping-Images-of-my-VAX-11… With today being cold and rainy, it seems like a good excuse to turn on my VAX-11/730. I can boot either VMS 5.2 off the RL02 or OpenVMS 7.3 off the R80, if I recall the version numbers correctly. Several months have passed since the last time I worked on the machine. In my last session I began trying to bring up TCP/IP networking, without success. I want to get raw images of the system's drives off the machine and onto my modern systems. I can think of several approaches, and still more approaches have already been suggested in that VCF thread. I have a number of questions, and I'm also keeping my eyes open for hardware that might help me out. I'm not presently talking to eBay, so that limits my options. First of all, if I manage to get TCP/IP networking up and running today, is there some way under VMS for me to dump raw disk blocks over the network to one of my UNIX-like systems? Alternately, if I manage to cobble together a Linux box running an older DECNET-aware distribution and bring up DECNET on the VAX, would that give me a way to dump raw disk blocks to a file on it across the network? I'm still quite clumsy under VMS. One of these network-based approaches seem like the only options that I would have any chance of achieving today, assuming that the networking hardware on my 11/730 is even in working order. I don't think I have the patience to dump an R80 drive across an async serial port, but if I did have the patience, is there some way to accomplish this under a stock VMS 5.2/7.3 installation? Ditto for the RL02 and 9-track tapes. I have a couple of broken Kennedy 9610 9-track drives in my pile. One has a SCSI interface, so I might be able to interface it to one of my newer machines that have both SCSI and a way to talk to my modern machines, such as my Sun Ultra 60 or my Amiga 3000. Both drives have hub motor drive problems that need to be diagnosed and repaired, though. This might end up being part of my best data path from the VAX to modern machines, but it'll take some time and work. I can think of a few possible approaches if somebody here has suitable hardware for sale or trade: * With an MSCP-emulating UNIBUS SCSI card, I might be able to hang a SCSI2SD off my VAX. These seem to be expensive and hard to find, though. I see a UC17 on eBay for $949 OBO. That's a lot more than I'm presently willing to spend, and I'm not on speaking terms with eBay/PayPal right now anyway. I do hope to find a suitable UNIBUS SCSI adapter at a good price, both for possible use in the VAX and for eventual use in my long-term PDP-11/44 project. * With an M8061 RLV12 card, I might be able to borrow the VAX's RL02 and dump packs on my little PDP-11 half-rack. I already have a QBUS SCSI card for it that I procured a while back. I also have four more RL02 drives out in the pile in the barn for eventual use, but I'd initially borrow the known-working RL02 drive from the VAX, which also happens to be in the same room as my little PDP-11. I don't think I already have an RLV12, but I'll dig through my QBUS cards again today to see if I have one I've forgotten about. * With some sort of Pertec tape adapter for one of my newer computers, I might be able to borrow the TU80 drive from my VAX (I think it has a Pertec interface; not positive yet) and use it to read/write tapes. It could also eventually get used with one of the Kennedy drives, but the TU80 already works. I might be able to use a PCI card in the Sun Ultra 60 if Solaris 8 can talk to it. Or an MCA card in a PS/2 65 that I recently acquired, running OS/2 Warp Connect 4, also assuming I can get suitable software. Or a SCSI to Pertec interface connected to the Ultra 60 or my Amiga 3000. Or even an ISA card in my crusty 386 clone running DOS 6.22. It would be ultimately nice to connect a 9-track to one of my modern Macs, but I don't expect that to be easy. * It was suggested that I might be able to cluster the 11/730 with a MicroVAX, and then transfer data onto some SCSI device on the MicroVAX such as a SCSI2SD. I think I'd need to find a fairly turnkey MicroVAX, though, to avoid a bring-up problem that's even bigger than the data transfer problem I'm trying to solve. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net> http://www.nf6x.net/

10 years, 3 months

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Olivetti 3MB ST506-interface drive?

by jules.richardson99＠gmail.com

Does anyone recall an Olivetti ST506-interface drive with a colossal 3MB capacity? Apparently a full-height 5.25" unit with 4 heads and two platters. I'm just curious; I always thought that capacities either equaled or surpassed the 5MB of Seagate's ST506 after they introduced it, so I was a bit surprised to hear of a drive with < 5MB. For context, Acorn apparently used them during development of their external Winchester units for BBC micros (Acorn SASI board, Adaptec SASI-ST506 bridge, ST506 drive). Production units that I'm aware of had either a 10MB or 30MB drive fitted (BASF typically, I think). We're talking 1983, or maybe late '82, so considerably after the introduction of the original Seagate drive. The only Olivetti drives I'm finding mention of are a 10MB single-platter drive and a 20MB dual-platter drive. Acorn had close ties with Olivetti, of course, so I did wonder if Acorn acquired some pre-production drives - but it seems like a bit of a leap to go from a 3MB dual-platter prototype to a 20MB one. cheers Jules

10 years, 3 months

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Sun 4/260

by theevilapplepie＠gmail.com

Howdy there folks, I've been kicking myself for giving away a dying Sun4/260 due to space issues and moving about 15 years ago and since then my life has settled I've started looking occasionally to see if I can find another one. Has anyone seen any of these units in a workable condition that are for sale or possibly even loan? I never got a good chance to dig into the one I had and I regret it, just looking to recoup lost time :) Thanks, James

10 years, 3 months

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PDP-11/23 Troubles Again

by ben＠bensinclair.com

In the previous episode, I was trying to get my M8013 and M8014 RL02 controller pair to pass the diskless controller test, and discovered it had some sort of stuck bit. Repairing that seemed a little out of my scope, so I recently found an M8061, and I tried to give it another go today. However, my system has decided to be flakey again after not running for a couple months. I removed the '13 and '14 and started up the memory and CPU diagnostics just to make sure I was in a good starting position. The memory passes just fine, but the JKDBD0 test no longer starts, and turns off the run light. Previously that was because of bad memory, (and it doesn't run at all with too little memory), but using two tested good M8044's got everything working. I reseated everything, and am running with the M8186, two M8044s, M8043, and the M8012, which was my previous good configuration. The power test points on the M8012 are good. I only have two (good, at least before) M8044s for memory, so I don't have anything handy to swap in. I think this particular machine just hates me, but assuming it doesn't, does anyone have other suggestions? Thanks! -- Ben Sinclair ben at bensinclair.com

10 years, 3 months

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Why the National Archives needs punch-card readers (Fwd by SMECC)

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

Scruffy Millennials covet old record players because they dig the format; the National Archives and Records Administration keeps old file players around because legacy digital data demand them. "I am preserving every file format that has ever existed on the web, or that any of you have ever used in your work on a daily basis," said Leslie Johnston, NARA's director of digital preservation, who spoke at a March 10 FedScoop event. "In one transfer from one agency, we received not only their email, their Word documents, their PDFs, their PowerPoints -- we actually received the entire contents of their hard drives." http://bit.ly/1QVLam4 enjoy - Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC

10 years, 3 months

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Which RT-11 for an 11/03

by rich.cini＠verizon.net

Is there a listing somewhere of what versions of RT-11 work with which CPUs? The Heath H11 uses the LSI-11 which I think is an 11/03 equivalent. Is there a specific version (or maximum version) designed for this CPU? I tried v4 using a method I found on-line (modifying with SIMH to make it bootable as a TU58 image rather than an RK) but it doesn't work so I wanted to first eliminate the system version as the potential problem. Thanks! Rich Sent from my iPhone

10 years, 3 months

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Honneywell multics? from panels. the inline phots in this message folks -smecc

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> > Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 07:27:18 -0800 > From: Charles Anthony <charles.unix.pro at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Honneywell multics? from panels. the inline phots in this > message folks -smecc > > The panels labeled IOM are Input Output Managers; they connected the SCUs > to peripheral devices; also sometimes 'IOP' (Input Output Processor). > > -- Charles > I believe that the IOMs are Input/Output *Multiplexers.* -- Michael Thompson

10 years, 3 months

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Introduction and Alpha Micro AM-1200 query

by rsponholtz＠hotmail.com

Hi Everyone, I just subscribed on the cctalk mailing list, I thought I?d introduce myself.? The first computer that I ever used was an Alpha Micro AM-100 at my high school, where I had the extra project of figuring out Pascal and explaining it to the teacher.? I?m pretty excited about Eric and Al?s decapping project ? I?m imagining a FPGA-based AM-100 emulator in the future! In fact, I recently picked up an Alpha Micro AM-1200 that I?d like to get running.?It?s giving a selftest error indicating a memory problem that hopefully I can figure out how to track down. After that, I?ll need to get an OS on an appropriate disk (I don?t think the disk is working). Does anyone here have any info or documentation on these machines, or maybe even some software? The info out on the ?net on these things seems pretty minimal. Back to the intro: I went to University of Colorado Boulder for Computer Science back in the mid-80s, graduating in 88 after doing a lot of work under VMS and various Unix machines.? I now work for Microsoft (in cloud pre-sales tech), and have a small collection of old computers ? AM-1200, Microvax, Mac SE and HP 9000/300.? I recently picked up a nice ADM-3a that I got working by replacing some RAM chips. ? Anyway, thanks for your help, and love the conversation! Ross Sponholtz rsponholtz at hotmail.com

10 years, 3 months

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Which RT-11 for an 11/03

by Gary＠realtimecomp.com

There is no difference in the LSI-11 board on an H-11 and a pdp-11/03. What DEC did do was cripple Heath's version of RT-11 (called HT-11). It would only work with Heath's H-27 floppy drive unit. The Heath serial, parallel, and memory cards were all compatible with DEC's offerings, AFAIK. That being said, I personally don't have experience with true RT-11 on the H-11. -------- Original message -------- From: Richard Cini Date:03/10/2016 4:09 PM (GMT-05:00) To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Subject: Re: Which RT-11 for an 11/03 If I have time tonight I'll log the session with "verbose" set on the TU58EM. Again, I'm trying the trick of booting from a TU58 emulator and an RK image with DD as the boot target (supposedly can work but maybe slow). I can see the blocks being read in but it stops and doesn't give me the sign-on banner. Rich Sent from my iPhone

10 years, 3 months

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Apple Disk II

by pchatt30＠gmail.com

Hi, Dose anybody have a reasonably priced Apple Disk II drive and controller card in the uk? The shipping costs from the US are a too much. Thanks

10 years, 3 months

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Honneywell multics? from panels. the inline phots in this message folks...

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

and for horrible deep level maint. I would imagine they would be useful.... they look like something too complex to let operations level people diddle with... but are these used with exactly WHICH Honeywell system? If we are going to display them need to tell the right story in the museum. Ed# In a message dated 3/12/2016 7:44:50 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, dave.g4ugm at gmail.com writes: The panels would be pretty much un-used Unlike 360 panels these were hidden behind doors for most of the time. Assuming the work the same on a Multics box as on a regular L66/DPS box the only time they were really used was if you split a 2 x CPU system into 2 x 1 CPU system, or changed the memory configuration from interleaved to non-interleaved. Pretty sure you could IPL >from the console. Dave From: COURYHOUSE at aol.com [mailto:COURYHOUSE at aol.com] Sent: 12 March 2016 11:53 To: jws at jwsss.com Cc: spacewar at gmail.com; dave.g4ugm at gmail.com; charles.unix.pro at gmail.com; jwsmail at jwsss.com; cctalk at classiccmp.org; Kevin at RawFedDogs.net; healyzh at aracnet.com; couryhouse at aol.com; couryhouse.smecc at gmail.com Subject: Honneywell multics? from panels. the inline phots in this message folks -smecc ok sent to all the people cc on the multics stuff.. will not go though on main listserv probably here are some of the panels think there is more there are at least 2 of each type one set will make display her at smecc museum in az the other set??? maybe someone want to wire into an emulator <<<grin!>>> aside from a little dust and bad lighting these things look like they were pretty unused thanks ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org/)

10 years, 3 months

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Honneywell multics? from panels. the inline phots in this message folks -smecc

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Charles Anthony > The enormous number of configuration switches is due to the extreme > modularity of the system. ... Each bank could taken out of service The really amazing thing (considering the vintage) was that that reconfiguration could be done with the power on, and the system running! E.g. MIT had a two-CPU three-memory system; at night, they used (while the system was running!) to take off one of the CPUs and a memory box, bring them up as a separate development system, and in the morning, add the 'borrowed' CPU and memory back onto the main system - without ever shutting the main system down! People using it at the time could't even tell it had undergone a mitosis, and then a merge. Noel

10 years, 3 months

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Any word on the Multics revival front?

by madcrow.maxwell＠gmail.com

When Multics was officially released as free software a couple of years ago, there was a flurry of activity aimed at getting some sort of emulator up and running to run it. Did anything ever come of that or did folks just lose interest (or find out that the needed GE/Honeywell hardware was too poorly-documented to write an emulator of) Mike

10 years, 3 months

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AM-100 board set

by aek＠bitsavers.org

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201536498192 FYI (esp Cameron) I was the buyer. The instruction decoder will be decapped, and the microcode roms send to Eric Smith for reading

10 years, 3 months

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Any word on the Multics revival front?

by eric＠swenson.org

While I don't know of any GCOS 8 systems out there, Multics does include a GCOS batch simulator. Some customers of Multics used it (in preference to GCOS) because it was actually faster. While I can't vouch for the completeness or correctness of the GCOS batch system's working under the emulator, we know that at least some of it works, as the "map355" command needed to assemble the FNP image works under emulated Multics, and it uses the GCOS simulator to perform the assembly. There is also a GCOS TSS subsystem under Multics, but we have reason to believe that it isn't working quite right yet. There must be some difficult-to-find emulator bug that is causing issues when running commands under TSS. Feel free to check it out. -- Eric Message: 33 Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 20:51:28 -0800 From: Zane Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Any word on the Multics revival front? Message-ID: <1D0736B9-F398-40BC-AA8E-8DAF80A62C88 at aracnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Mar 11, 2016, at 6:22 AM, Kevin Monceaux<Kevin at rawfeddogs.net> wrote: > > OI hadn't checked on Multics progress in quite a while. Yesterday I > discovered that the DPS-8/M emulator at: > > https://SourceForge.net/projects/dps8m/ > > is far enough along to boot Multics. I thought some folks on this list > might be interested in it. What I?d like to know is if any copies of GCOS-8 exist in the wild. That?s what I?d personally really like to boot on the emulator. I used to be able configure all the IOP?s, IOM?s, CPU?s, etc. from memory, power them up, and boot GCOS-8. Zane

10 years, 3 months

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Honneywell multics? from panels. the inline phots in this message folks -smecc

by dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com

The panels would be pretty much un-used Unlike 360 panels these were hidden behind doors for most of the time. Assuming the work the same on a Multics box as on a regular L66/DPS box the only time they were really used was if you split a 2 x CPU system into 2 x 1 CPU system, or changed the memory configuration from interleaved to non-interleaved. Pretty sure you could IPL >from the console. Dave From: COURYHOUSE at aol.com [mailto:COURYHOUSE at aol.com] Sent: 12 March 2016 11:53 To: jws at jwsss.com Cc: spacewar at gmail.com; dave.g4ugm at gmail.com; charles.unix.pro at gmail.com; jwsmail at jwsss.com; cctalk at classiccmp.org; Kevin at RawFedDogs.net; healyzh at aracnet.com; couryhouse at aol.com; couryhouse.smecc at gmail.com Subject: Honneywell multics? from panels. the inline phots in this message folks -smecc ok sent to all the people cc on the multics stuff.. will not go though on main listserv probably here are some of the panels think there is more there are at least 2 of each type one set will make display her at smecc museum in az the other set??? maybe someone want to wire into an emulator <<<grin!>>> aside from a little dust and bad lighting these things look like they were pretty unused thanks ed# www.smecc.org <http://www.smecc.org>

10 years, 3 months

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VMS 4.4 source code microfiche

by lyokoboy0＠gmail.com

I purchased a DEC VMS 4.4 source code microfiche set a while back. A buddy of mine works at a local library where there is a fancy microfiche scanner, I'm planning to scan it all. Some of the film is scratched pretty bad, does anyone else around here have this set, so that i can recover the full page set? --Devin

10 years, 3 months

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OT: lenses (Was: Front Panels - PDP8 and PDP 11

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

I wonder if the tele tessar was a true tessar design or just a use of 'the name' ? I have seen snipits in google referring to it being a true telephoto... with a true tessar formula lens IS NOT. ok the norm for the hassleblad was a80 mm f 2.8 planar... in the rolliflex the tessar was the entry level lens... the planar the upgrade. my first 'real' camera was a 1933 rolliflex with a f3.5 tessar. not bad at all but a little soft wide open. I still have this camera. and the low shutter speeds are a little slow but OTW rest is fine.. In HD I bought an argus c3 from my geometry teacher for $8 and used it a lot more shots per roll and would operate eye level and had a pretty good split image rangefinder.. the lens was decent too. when I went in USAF sold the C# to my brother but kept the rolliflex ( wish I had saved both! as the argus shot some of my first press work) adn when in USAF got a SLR. messages in the bin? then add my address to your contact list?! the address In a message dated 3/10/2016 8:31:43 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, mgariboldi at gmail.com writes: 2016-03-11 4:25 GMT+01:00 <COURYHOUSE at aol.com>: > Hasselblad did not use tessar. tesar was a good lens but certainly > not the hi end > ed# > Incorrect. There were various, like the *Tele-Tessar*, which appeared for Hasselblad. (By the way, your messages usually end up in my bin. Just so you know...) - MG > In a message dated 3/10/2016 8:01:07 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, > mgariboldi at gmail.com writes: > > 2016-03-10 16:59 GMT+01:00 Zane Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com>: > > > > > > On Mar 9, 2016, at 11:37 PM, Paul Anderson <useddec at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > Popular or Modern Photography 20 or 30 years ago had an article on the > 10 > > > best lens ever made. I think Zeiss made 3 of them, and they were the > only > > > company with more than one. > > > > One of my all time favorite lenses is the Hasselblad 80mm f/2.8 Planar C > > lens made by Zeiss. Even their low-end Tessar lenses are awesome. > > > > Anything made for Hasselblad could hardly be called 'low-end'. (A bit > like > a 'low-end' SGI, there was basically never such a thing... certainly not > in > terms of original cost.) > > The only truly low-end Carl Zeiss optics are probably the *Pentacon* > series, made by the post-WW II Carl Zeiss Jena branch of the GDR. > > > Take a look at the Sony a7 series of bodies, people are using RTS lenses > on > > them. You can put almost anything on them, and they?re a full frame > > sensor. I know that the wider lenses might have some fringing issues at > > the edges. > > > Which (affordable) lens *doesn't* have imperfect edges, especially > completely analog lenses without any in-camera digital correction. (This > can also be done afterwards, if one knows the possible distortion values.) > > The Sony a7-series aren't exactly cheap. More affordable and rather good, > too, are ?4/3 cameras, especially in conjunction with a focal reducer, if > the crop is too much of an obstruction. I gain an extra stop of light, on > top of reducing the crop, with my M42/Praktica thread mount lenses. My > thorium-coated Asahi Pentax Super-Takumar 1.4/50's maximum diaphragm is > effectively widened to an impressive ?/1. On top of that I have in-body > image stabilization, good high ISO handling and other features, all at the > fraction of the cost. On top of that, I can exchange my lenses with my > dedicated ?4/3 Super 16 digital film camera. > > > > > I?ve started looking seriously at the a7 series, as it would allow me > to > > use a lot of lenses I have, that I can currently only use on 35mm film > > bodies. > > > > Nothing prevents you from using a full frame lens on a smaller (e.g. > APS-C) > sensor body. The crop isn't always a negative, sometimes it can change a > mediocre tele-photo prime into an excellent one. > > > > > Since I started shooting more than just Nikon, it?s a lot harder to find > > Nikon lenses I really like. The only AF lens I really like is the > Nikkor > > 50mm f/1.4G, at f/5.6 it can compete with my 50mm Summicron. > > > > At ?/5.6 only? Well, that's rough... > > - MG >

10 years, 3 months

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Any word on the Multics revival front?

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

ok have sent panel photos to those on this multics convo anyone else can email me for some or talk to the others do not thing thins list passes images? seems these are like he ones in Jim's link below. we have 2 sets... one we will display here the other set is up in the air... maybe someone would like to wire it into a big H emulator! <<<grin!> would listen to all offers...Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC In a message dated 3/12/2016 3:06:52 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, jws at jwsss.com writes: On 3/11/2016 11:45 PM, COURYHOUSE at aol.com wrote: > I have front panels for Honeywell huge black and white with tons of > tiny switches and leds. > > kind of like these > http://www.glennsmuseum.com/components/pics/multics_panel_cu2.jpg > > http://www.glennsmuseum.com/components/pics/multics_panel_cu1.jpg > > some have more white areas is from a 6000? dps8? 8000? > It looks a lot like one in the collection which contained the one I have. This has my panel, as well as ones from when it was listed on Ebay. The black panel looks like it might be similar to the one you are referring to. http://jimsoldtoys.blogspot.com/2016/03/honeywell-6180-system-maintenance-pa nel.html thanks Jim

10 years, 3 months

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Any word on the Multics revival front?

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

I have front panels for Honeywell huge black and white with tons of tiny switches and leds. kind of like these http://www.glennsmuseum.com/components/pics/multics_panel_cu2.jpg http://www.glennsmuseum.com/components/pics/multics_panel_cu1.jpg some have more white areas is from a 6000? dps8? 8000? I know some of the large Honeywell machines were used for MULTICS but trying to figure what panels which machines it was run on as an op sys. Guess I should know more as my computer business was 2 miles away >from the plant these were made in in phx but I was too busy working on and selling HP stuff.. I have tried to find a site that had a definitive group of the panels on it to use as an ID tool. Oddly it seems we have 2 of each type and as I remember there are 4 or 5 large ones to a set? ( plus some small ones) Drop me a note! any help appreciated Ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) . In a message dated 3/11/2016 10:11:43 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, charles.unix.pro at gmail.com writes: On Fri, Mar 11, 2016me at 9:02 PM, jwsmobile <jws at jwsss.com> wrote: > > > On 3/11/2016 8:51 PM, Zane Healy wrote: > >> On Mar 11, 2016, at 6:22 AM, Kevin Monceaux <Kevin at rawfeddogs.net> wrote: >>> >>> OI hadn't checked on Multics progress in quite a while. Yesterday I >>> discovered that the DPS-8/M emulator at: >>> >>> https://SourceForge.net/projects/dps8m/ >>> >>> is far enough along to boot Multics. I thought some folks on this list >>> might be interested in it. >>> >> What I?d like to know is if any copies of GCOS-8 exist in the wild. >> That?s what I?d personally really like to boot on the emulator. I used to >> be able configure all the IOP?s, IOM?s, CPU?s, etc. from memory, power them >> up, and boot GCOS-8. >> >> Zane >> > The problem with GCOS is that there isn't a history I know of that it was > anything but Honeywells property. A lot of negotiation and persistence on > the part of many folks went to getting it to where the Multics code could > be released. And it was lucky to be saved @ MIT and the CHM with > donations. > > I don't know of anyone with GCOS when it has been mentioned over the > history of the discussions about this hardware. > > Many thanks to Harry and Charles for writing the emulator, and to the > others reviving the system. > > I plan to have a 6180 panel at VCF West and an original 645 board from the > first Multics system for show and tell. > > thanks > Jim > > I was tentatively planning to be at VCF West with a Multics emulation, and as much real hardware as I can chase down (I/O selectric OPCON, maybe a tape drive, a line printer, ?) Maybe we can hook up a beaglebone to your 6180 panel? -- Charles

10 years, 3 months

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