11 Nov
2009
11 Nov
'09
10:44 a.m.
When Multics was officially released as free software a couple of
years ago, there was a flurry of activity aimed at getting some sort
of emulator up and running to run it. Did anything ever come of that
or did folks just lose interest (or find out that the needed
GE/Honeywell hardware was too poorly-documented to write an emulator
of)
Mike
11 Mar
11 Mar
6:22 a.m.
On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 01:44:50PM -0500, Michael Kerpan wrote:
When Multics was officially released as free software
a couple of
years ago, there was a flurry of activity aimed at getting some sort
of emulator up and running to run it. Did anything ever come of that
or did folks just lose interest (or find out that the needed
GE/Honeywell hardware was too poorly-documented to write an emulator
of)
I hadn't checked on Multics progress in quite a while. Yesterday I
discovered that the DPS-8/M emulator at:
https://SourceForge.net/projects/dps8m/
is far enough along to boot Multics. I thought some folks on this list
might be interested in it.
Using the files from the QuickStart_MR12.6d.zip archive I managed to boot
Multics yesterday. The README file in that archive describes how to boot
the system and sign on as Repair.SysAdmin, but not much else. I'd never
touched a Multics system before, and didn't have time yesterday to get to
know the system. Does anyone know of any Multics How-Tos, especially how to
shut Multics down properly?
--
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX
What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
6:57 a.m.
On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 6:22 AM, Kevin Monceaux <Kevin at rawfeddogs.net wrote:
Multics Cheat Sheet <http://ringzero.wikidot.com/wiki:multics-cheat-sheet
Multicians <http://www.multicians.org/
-- Charles
On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 01:44:50PM -0500, Michael
Kerpan wrote:
ESC (The ATTN key)
logout * * (SHuts down the daemons)
When it prompts (->) again, hit ESC to release the console.
You should 6 or so messages about daemons logging out.
When the messages stop:
ESC
shut
If it asks if it's okay to shut down:
y
You should see messages, ending with 'bce>' (Boot Command Environment, the
long lost ancestor of GRUB).
ESC
die
y
Depending on the startup script, you may then see the simh prompt 'simh>'
q
Multics today: http://ringzero.wikidot.com/
Multics FAQ <http://ringzero.wikidot.com/wiki:multics-faq When Multics was officially released as free
software a couple of
years ago, there was a flurry of activity aimed at getting some sort
of emulator up and running to run it. Did anything ever come of that
or did folks just lose interest (or find out that the needed
GE/Honeywell hardware was too poorly-documented to write an emulator
of)
I hadn't checked on Multics progress in quite a while. Yesterday I
discovered that the DPS-8/M emulator at:
https://SourceForge.net/projects/dps8m/
is far enough along to boot Multics. I thought some folks on this list
might be interested in it.
Using the files from the QuickStart_MR12.6d.zip archive I managed to boot
Multics yesterday. The README file in that archive describes how to boot
the system and sign on as Repair.SysAdmin, but not much else. I'd never
touched a Multics system before, and didn't have time yesterday to get to
know the system. Does anyone know of any Multics How-Tos, especially how
to
shut Multics down properly?
On the console: 
8:51 p.m.
On Mar 11, 2016, at 6:22 AM, Kevin Monceaux <Kevin
at rawfeddogs.net> wrote:
OI hadn't checked on Multics progress in quite a while. Yesterday I
discovered that the DPS-8/M emulator at:
https://SourceForge.net/projects/dps8m/
is far enough along to boot Multics. I thought some folks on this list
might be interested in it.
What I?d like to know is if any copies of GCOS-8 exist in the wild. That?s what I?d
personally really like to boot on the emulator. I used to be able configure all the
IOP?s, IOM?s, CPU?s, etc. from memory, power them up, and boot GCOS-8.
Zane
9:02 p.m.
On 3/11/2016 8:51 PM, Zane Healy wrote:
The problem with GCOS is that there isn't a history I know of that it
was anything but Honeywells property. A lot of negotiation and
persistence on the part of many folks went to getting it to where the
Multics code could be released. And it was lucky to be saved @ MIT and
the CHM with donations.
I don't know of anyone with GCOS when it has been mentioned over the
history of the discussions about this hardware.
Many thanks to Harry and Charles for writing the emulator, and to the
others reviving the system.
I plan to have a 6180 panel at VCF West and an original 645 board from
the first Multics system for show and tell.
thanks
Jim
On Mar 11,
2016, at 6:22 AM, Kevin Monceaux <Kevin at rawfeddogs.net> wrote:
OI hadn't checked on Multics progress in quite a while. Yesterday I
discovered that the DPS-8/M emulator at:
https://SourceForge.net/projects/dps8m/
is far enough along to boot Multics. I thought some folks on this list
might be interested in it.
What I?d like to know is if any copies of GCOS-8 exist
in the wild. That?s what I?d personally really like to boot on the emulator. I used to
be able configure all the IOP?s, IOM?s, CPU?s, etc. from memory, power them up, and boot
GCOS-8.
Zane
9:11 p.m.
On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 9:02 PM, jwsmobile <jws at jwsss.com> wrote:
On 3/11/2016 8:51 PM, Zane Healy wrote:
as much
real hardware as I can chase down (I/O selectric OPCON, maybe a
tape drive, a line printer, ?)
Maybe we can hook up a beaglebone to your 6180 panel?
-- Charles
On Mar 11, 2016, at 6:22 AM, Kevin Monceaux
<Kevin at rawfeddogs.net> wrote:
The problem with GCOS is that there isn't a history I know of that it was
anything but Honeywells property. A lot of negotiation and persistence on
the part of many folks went to getting it to where the Multics code could
be released. And it was lucky to be saved @ MIT and the CHM with
donations.
I don't know of anyone with GCOS when it has been mentioned over the
history of the discussions about this hardware.
Many thanks to Harry and Charles for writing the emulator, and to the
others reviving the system.
I plan to have a 6180 panel at VCF West and an original 645 board from the
first Multics system for show and tell.
thanks
Jim
I was tentatively planning to be at VCF West with a Multics emulation, and
OI hadn't checked on Multics progress in quite a while. Yesterday I
discovered that the DPS-8/M emulator at:
https://SourceForge.net/projects/dps8m/
is far enough along to boot Multics. I thought some folks on this list
might be interested in it.
What I?d like to know is if any copies of GCOS-8 exist in the wild.
That?s what I?d personally really like to boot on the emulator. I used to
be able configure all the IOP?s, IOM?s, CPU?s, etc. from memory, power them
up, and boot GCOS-8.
Zane
12 Mar
12 Mar
12:21 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Zane Healy
Sent: 12 March 2016 04:51
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Any word on the Multics revival front?
Sadly, I doubt it very much. It was still in use on emulated hardware until
relatively recently and I assume BULL was still making money from it and guarding its
assets. Thinkage still have GCOS products listed on their web site.
https://www.thinkage.ca/english/gcos/index.shtml
but sadly no longer a "B" compiler. I think that one has slipped past me...
Dave Wade
G4UGM
On Mar 11, 2016, at 6:22 AM, Kevin Monceaux
<Kevin at rawfeddogs.net>
wrote:
OI hadn't checked on Multics progress in quite a while. Yesterday I
discovered that the DPS-8/M emulator at:
https://SourceForge.net/projects/dps8m/
is far enough along to boot Multics. I thought some folks on this
list might be interested in it.
What I?d like to know is if any copies of GCOS-8 exist in the wild. That?s what
I?d personally really like to boot on the emulator. I used to be able configure
all the IOP?s, IOM?s, CPU?s, etc. from memory, power them up, and boot
GCOS-8.
Zane
12:28 a.m.
On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 1:21 AM, Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm at gmail.com> wrote:
[GCOS-8]
Sadly, I doubt it very much. It was still in use on
emulated hardware until relatively recently and I assume BULL was still making money from
it and guarding its assets. Thinkage still have GCOS products listed on their web site.
There's at least some possible future upside to that, which is that if
they are (or recently were) still selling and supporting it, then they
probably still actually have it, vs. the huge amount of software of
historical interest that is already lost. Also, since Group BULL was
willing to make a Multics license available, that may serve as useful
precedent for getting them to offer a similar GCOS license at some
future date when they don't believe it will harm their commercial
interests.
10:37 a.m.
On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 08:51:28PM -0800, Zane Healy wrote:
What I?d like to know is if any copies of GCOS-8 exist
in the wild.
That?s what I?d personally really like to boot on the emulator.
I would too. I've always been curious about Honeywell OSes. Well, I'm
curious about any mainframe OSes I've never had contact with, which is most
of them. I currently work as an IBM z/OS operator, so I'm mostly familiar
with IBM OSes. I went to college briefly at Lamar University in Beaumont,
TX in '88-'89. Sadly I dropped out during my second semester. The computer
science department had an overworked VAX 11/750. I worked as a volunteer
operator on that system. I heard the engineering department had a Honeywell
mainframe. There was one Honeywell terminal room in the computer science
building that was used by a FORTRAN programming class. The doorway to that
terminal room was the closest I ever got to the campus's Honeywell. I don't
know what model it was, or what OS it ran. I still regret not finding out
more about it while I was there. And that has made me especially curious
about Honeywell OSes.
--
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX
What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
10:49 a.m.
On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Kevin Monceaux <Kevin at rawfeddogs.net>
wrote:
On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 08:51:28PM -0800, Zane Healy
wrote:
Multics includes a GCOS (6 I think) emulator which allows some GCOS
programs to run under Multics. (The GCOS emulator copies the GCOS program
to a segment, and executes the segment in BAR mode with an offset of 0; the
GCOS application does OS calls with the MME (Master Mode Entry)
instruction. The GCOS emulator intercepts the MME calls with Multics
exception handler, deciphers what the call wants, does it, and continues
the GCOS program.
Several of the GCOS applications provided as part of the Multics
distribution work; such as the DN355 cross assembler. (Let's see: running a
cross assembler under a GCOS simulator running under Multics, which is
running on emulated hardware. </scratch head>).
There is a also the GCOS TSS subsystem which is an interactive programming
environment supporting several languages (Multics includes the BASIC and
FORTRAN runtimes). Sadly, there remain some emulator bugs that are causing
some failures under TSS; and lacking the source code for TSS, it is proving
to be an intractable issue.
-- Charles
What I?d like to know is if any copies of GCOS-8
exist in the wild.
That?s what I?d personally really like to boot on the emulator.
I would too. I've always been curious about Honeywell OSes. Well, I'm
curious about any mainframe OSes I've never had contact with, which is most
of them. I currently work as an IBM z/OS operator, so I'm mostly familiar
with IBM OSes. I went to college briefly at Lamar University in Beaumont,
TX in '88-'89. Sadly I dropped out during my second semester. The
computer
science department had an overworked VAX 11/750. I worked as a volunteer
operator on that system. I heard the engineering department had a
Honeywell
mainframe. There was one Honeywell terminal room in the computer science
building that was used by a FORTRAN programming class. The doorway to that
terminal room was the closest I ever got to the campus's Honeywell. I
don't
know what model it was, or what OS it ran. I still regret not finding out
more about it while I was there. And that has made me especially curious
about Honeywell OSes.
11:49 a.m.
On Mar 12, 2016, at 10:49 AM, Charles Anthony
<charles.unix.pro at gmail.com> wrote:
There is a also the GCOS TSS subsystem which is an interactive programming
environment supporting several languages (Multics includes the BASIC and
FORTRAN runtimes). Sadly, there remain some emulator bugs that are causing
some failures under TSS; and lacking the source code for TSS, it is proving
to be an intractable issue.
-- Charles
That would almost be enough for me from the sounds of things. Too bad there are issues.
I don?t suppose there is Waterloo C? That was a painful way to try to learn C
programming. :-) Definitely not K&R.
Zane
noon
Multics does have a C compiler ? it may have been developed at Waterloo (or Calgary?). I
just checked the pnotice and see that it is copyright Honeywell and AT&T.
It is pretty lame and the run-time library is (obviously) ancient. It includes a c
preprocessor, a curses library, make, lint, and a few unix-like commands.
? Eric
On Mar 12, 2016, at 11:49 AM, Zane Healy <healyzh
at aracnet.com> wrote:
On Mar 12, 2016, at 10:49 AM, Charles Anthony
<charles.unix.pro at gmail.com> wrote:
There is a also the GCOS TSS subsystem which is an interactive programming
environment supporting several languages (Multics includes the BASIC and
FORTRAN runtimes). Sadly, there remain some emulator bugs that are causing
some failures under TSS; and lacking the source code for TSS, it is proving
to be an intractable issue.
-- Charles
That would almost be enough for me from the sounds of things. Too bad there are issues.
I don?t suppose there is Waterloo C? That was a painful way to try to learn C
programming. :-) Definitely not K&R.
Zane
12:06 p.m.
On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 11:49 AM, Zane Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote:
I don't know the origins of the Multics C compiler; we don't have the
sources. Grepping the executable yields:
PCC/PCCrx UNIX 6.X
I don't know my earlier C compiler history, but I;m guessing 'Portable C
Compiler"
I don't believe that TSS has a C subsystem.
-- Charles
On Mar 12, 2016, at 10:49 AM, Charles Anthony
<
charles.unix.pro at gmail.com> wrote:
There is a also the GCOS TSS subsystem which is an interactive
programming
environment supporting several languages (Multics
includes the BASIC and
FORTRAN runtimes). Sadly, there remain some emulator bugs that are
causing
some failures under TSS; and lacking the source
code for TSS, it is
proving
to be an intractable issue.
-- Charles
That would almost be enough for me from the sounds of things. Too bad
there are issues. I don?t suppose there is Waterloo C? That was a painful
way to try to learn C programming. :-) Definitely not K&R.
12:13 p.m.
Several of the GCOS applications provided as part of the Multics distribution
work; such as the DN355 cross assembler. (Let's see: running a cross
assembler under a GCOS simulator running under Multics, which is running
on emulated hardware. </scratch head>).
If the instruction set is similar it is not really that contrived. The DN355 cross
assembler is written in L66 code. Multics just needs to emulate the system calls.
Just about the same as running MVT programs under VM or MTS on Hercules. For really weird
try running the IBM1401 emulator on Hercules on X64...
There is a also the GCOS TSS subsystem which is an interactive programming
environment supporting several languages (Multics includes the BASIC and
FORTRAN runtimes). Sadly, there remain some emulator bugs that are
causing some failures under TSS; and lacking the source code for TSS, it is
proving to be an intractable issue.
I wonder if my memory can be jogged. Sadly I no longer have the materials from the TSS
internals course I went on in Holland...
-- Charles
Dave
2967
days inactive
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days old
13 comments
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participants (8)
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