- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by jpl15＠netcom.com

I would like to find at least one, maybe two, *working* RL11 Controller card(s) [M7762] with accompanying flat cable and adapter to RL01/2 cables. I have many Unibus cards to trade, other things to trade, and/or cash as well. GPIB cables, anyone?? ;} Also fun would be an engineering schematic for it (them). I have nine (count 'em: 9) RL02s, over sixty RL02 packs, and only one controller card. Thanks in Advance.... Cheerz John

27 years, 4 months

1
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Question regarding a VAXstation

by cem14＠cornell.edu

First of all, let me introduce myself to the list. My name is Carlos Murillo, computer enthusiast and HP collector, though my collection is still pretty small. Many of my choices when it comes to computing are influenced by my addiction to automation and data aquisition. I have been lurking for a few weeks now, and I have learned a lot about classic computing from the members of the list. Thanks to you all. Now, I would like to ask for advice: I have a VAXstation 4000/60 sitting in front of me. I have been told that this ran ok about 8 years ago; I really don't know if this fits the topic of the list (I guess it could be slightly newer than 10 years). The thing is, it won't boot. When it is turned on, it flashes several colors on the monitor, it tests its 16M of RAM and then it aborts and dumps me to some sort of monitor program. This is what the screen shows: KA46-A V1.1-31E-V4.0 08-00-2B-2A-F8-AB 16MB <bargraph representing memory tested here> ?? 003 3 DZ 0112 <---loud beep heard here >>> _ I played with several of the monitor commands; in particular, here are two that seem to give some info about this machine: >>> show dev VMS/VMB ADDR DEVTYPE NUMBYTES RM/FX WP DEVNAM REV ------- ---- ------- -------- ----- -- ------ --- ESA0 08-00-2B-2A-F8-AB DKA300 A/3/0 DISK 209.81MB FX RZ24 4041 ..HostID.. A/6 INITR >>> show config KA46-A V1.1-31E-V4.0 08-00-2B-2A-F8-AB 16MB DEVNBR DEVNAM INFO ------ ------ --------------------------------------- 1 NVR OK 2 LCG OK HR - 8 PLN FB - V1.1 3 DZ ?? 003 0112 4 CACHE OK 5 MEM OK 16MB= SY=8MB, S0/1=8MB, S2/3=0MB, S4/5=0MB 6 FPU OK 7 IT OK 8 SYS OK 9 NI OK 10 SCSI OK 3-RZ24 6-INITR 11 AUD OK Only device number 3, "DZ" seems to be faulty, and is the same device appearing in the original error. What is this device? Thanks for any help, Carlos.

27 years, 4 months

2
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Question regarding a VAXstation

by cem14＠cornell.edu

Thanks to everybody for the information. Indeed, the missing mouse was the culprit. The next time it loaded VAX/VMS V 5.5; it started by asking for the date, and I made the mistake of actually providing the current date; as it loaded, I got about a hundred instances of "license has expired for XXXXXXX", with XXXXX being a bunch of installed software, including FORTRAN and Pascal compilers and a lot of things that looked like networking stuff. Oh, well, I guess that by booting the machine I have stripped it of a lot of software. Finally, a login screen popped up, but nobody around here remembers any user name or password. It is the first time that I have seen a machine boot VMS. Nice. Carlos. On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, emanuel stiebler wrote: > So plug in the keyboard, > > and type: > > B DKA300 > > and wait what happen ... > > cheers, > emanuel

27 years, 4 months

2
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Question regarding a VAXstation

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi Carlos, ---------- > From: cem14(a)cornell.edu > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Question regarding a VAXstation > Date: Thursday, March 25, 1999 6:56 PM > it of a lot of software. Finally, a login screen popped up, > but nobody around here remembers any user name or password. The answer to this is in the OpenVMS FAQ ;-)) > > It is the first time that I have seen a machine boot VMS. Nice. YES !!! cheers, emanuel

27 years, 4 months

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Question regarding a VAXstation

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 04:49 PM 3/25/99 -0500, you wrote: > >First of all, let me introduce myself to the list. My name >is Carlos Murillo, Ahh! Another lucker finally speaks up! Hi Carlos! >I have a VAXstation 4000/60 sitting in front of me. I have I didn't know you were into Vaxs. I just found a 4000/90 but I've already promised it to another list meember. Joe

27 years, 4 months

2
1
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Rotting away

by gareth.knight2＠which.net

John Amirault >You say about 1.5 miles away from home, how about a clue as to where >HOME is. No, the person who uploaded the picture says it's 1.5 miles from home. I believe it is in the US somewhere. All we need is a good sniffer dog and we should find it in no time =) -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | ICQ No. 24185856 http://welcome.to/aig | "Shine on your star"

27 years, 4 months

1
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Partial OS/8 Software Support Manual online

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

Having been blessed with a bit of a lull at the office this week, I've typed in and HTMLized a chunk of the OS/8 Software Suport Manual. The parts I have so far are the introduction through Chapter 5. Web on over to http://cc.usu.edu/~ivie/ and click on "The OS/8 Software Support Manual". The copy I have is a copy of a copy and no one bothered to copy the back of the title page, so I don't know the date or version of this particular copy of the manual. I also don't know when I'll get to the appendices. The appendices, of course, give the really exciting details such as the directory format. The part I have done so far may be interesting to that fellow who complained a while ago about having a DECmate III and not knowing how to program anything on it. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

27 years, 4 months

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Question regarding a VAXstation

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi Carlos, ---------- > From: cem14(a)cornell.edu > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Question regarding a VAXstation > Date: Thursday, March 25, 1999 2:49 PM > > I have a VAXstation 4000/60 sitting in front of me. I have > been told that this ran ok about 8 years ago; I really don't > know if this fits the topic of the list (I guess it could > be slightly newer than 10 years). The thing is, it > won't boot. When it is turned on, it flashes several colors > on the monitor, it tests its 16M of RAM and then it aborts > and dumps me to some sort of monitor program. This is what > the screen shows: > > KA46-A V1.1-31E-V4.0 > 08-00-2B-2A-F8-AB > 16MB > <bargraph representing memory tested here> > ?? 003 3 DZ 0112 <---loud beep heard here So plug in the keyboard, and type: B DKA300 and wait what happen ... cheers, emanuel

27 years, 4 months

1
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Museums

by mbg＠world.std.com

>So, it appears that if you have a demountable cartridge drive and you >change the air filter, you have to bring it up to the latest standards. >That's refurbishing. If you wait for it to headcrash and fit new heads >and filter, well, that's a repair and is OK. Go figure. It's all how you view it... an air filter can go 'bad'... requiring repair (replacement). Logically should be no different from heads which go bad and require repair (replacement). Otherwise there could be an argument made for replacing the heads being a refurbishment, and this requiring bringing it up to standards.. depends on the definition of refurbish... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 4 months

2
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Question regarding a VAXstation

by mbg＠world.std.com

>I have a VAXstation 4000/60 sitting in front of me. I have >been told that this ran ok about 8 years ago; I really don't >know if this fits the topic of the list (I guess it could >be slightly newer than 10 years). The thing is, it >won't boot. When it is turned on, it flashes several colors >on the monitor, it tests its 16M of RAM and then it aborts >and dumps me to some sort of monitor program. This is what >the screen shows: [screen contents edited out] >Only device number 3, "DZ" seems to be faulty, and is the same >device appearing in the original error. What is this device? The DZ is programatically similar to the DZ for UNIBUS and the DZQ/DZV for Qbus. It is a multiple asynchronous serial line multiplexor (I don't know how many lines on Vaxstations...) I'm not familiar with the 4000/60... but if it is anything like other Vaxstations... the DZ is usually connected to the keyboard and the mouse. If you don't have these, then it may report an error (missing the mouse may be enough). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 4 months

1
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Question regarding a VAXstation

by danburrows＠mindspring.com

Yes That is what I am using on mine. Dan > >Thanks for the info; I do have an LK401 keyboard, but >did not plug a mouse yet. I have located a model VSXXX-GA mouse; >I don't know if it came with this machine or with some >of the other DECstation 5000/33 laying around; should this >work? > >

27 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

KIM-1

by channum＠earthlink.net

Hi, Do you know where i could get a kim 1? or do you have one? if so are you willing to sell it? Corey

27 years, 4 months

3
2
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Question regarding a VAXstation

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Only device number 3, "DZ" seems to be faulty, and is the same >device appearing in the original error. What is this device? DZ represents the serial ports - including the mouse and the keyboard. If you don't have a mouse (like the VSXXX-AA) and a keyboard (like the LK201 or LK401) plugged in, you'll get this error. Tim.

27 years, 4 months

2
1
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Question regarding a VAXstation

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

Hi Carlos, You can netboot NetBSD on that puppy (see www.netbsd.org/vax/) Does it have a keyboard? DZ errors are usually keyboard problems. --Chuck At 04:49 PM 3/25/99 -0500, you wrote: > >First of all, let me introduce myself to the list. My name >is Carlos Murillo, computer enthusiast and HP collector, though >my collection is still pretty small. Many of my choices when >it comes to computing are influenced by my addiction to automation >and data aquisition. > >I have been lurking for a few weeks now, and I have learned a lot >about classic computing from the members of the list. Thanks >to you all. Now, I would like to ask for advice: > >I have a VAXstation 4000/60 sitting in front of me. I have >been told that this ran ok about 8 years ago; I really don't >know if this fits the topic of the list (I guess it could >be slightly newer than 10 years). The thing is, it >won't boot. When it is turned on, it flashes several colors >on the monitor, it tests its 16M of RAM and then it aborts >and dumps me to some sort of monitor program. This is what >the screen shows: > >KA46-A V1.1-31E-V4.0 >08-00-2B-2A-F8-AB >16MB ><bargraph representing memory tested here> >?? 003 3 DZ 0112 <---loud beep heard here > > >>>> _ > > >I played with several of the monitor commands; in particular, >here are two that seem to give some info about this machine: > >>>> show dev > > VMS/VMB ADDR DEVTYPE NUMBYTES RM/FX WP DEVNAM REV > ------- ---- ------- -------- ----- -- ------ --- > ESA0 08-00-2B-2A-F8-AB > DKA300 A/3/0 DISK 209.81MB FX RZ24 4041 > ..HostID.. A/6 INITR > > >>>> show config > >KA46-A V1.1-31E-V4.0 >08-00-2B-2A-F8-AB >16MB > >DEVNBR DEVNAM INFO >------ ------ --------------------------------------- > 1 NVR OK > 2 LCG OK > HR - 8 PLN FB - V1.1 > 3 DZ ?? 003 0112 > 4 CACHE OK > 5 MEM OK > 16MB= SY=8MB, S0/1=8MB, S2/3=0MB, S4/5=0MB > 6 FPU OK > 7 IT OK > 8 SYS OK > 9 NI OK > 10 SCSI OK > 3-RZ24 6-INITR > 11 AUD OK > > >Only device number 3, "DZ" seems to be faulty, and is the same >device appearing in the original error. What is this device? > >Thanks for any help, > >Carlos. > > >

27 years, 4 months

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FREE apple hard drive Re: Apple question

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Hi! Does it have the cable to connect it to the computer? ThAnX, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 9:16 PM Subject: FREE apple hard drive Re: Apple question >I have an Apple 20SC hard drive that is in unknown condition that I'd be >happy to give away for the postage. Email me off list. >--Chuck > >At 08:41 PM 3/24/99 +0000, you wrote: >>I picked up an Apple Harddisk 20SC and an Apple tape backup 40SC today. >>Which Apples will these work on? Do you need any specail software or >>hardware to use them? >> >> Joe >> > > >

27 years, 4 months

2
1
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Fwd: Dec5000/20 needs a home

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

Found on comp.unix.ultrix. Please reply directly to: Rick_Compton(a)siebestc.co Mike Subject: Dec5000/20 needs a home From: Rick Compton <Rick_Compton(a)siebestc.com> Date: Thu, Mar 25, 1999 13:42 EST Message-id: <36FA837A.FF4A1791(a)siebestc.com> I hate to just throw the old gal away but I'm not willing to invest a lot of money in shipping it around the world either. The DEC and I reside in Richmond, VA. Does anybody want it bad enough to come after it? Any suggestions?

27 years, 4 months

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<OT> Free stock shares

by Anthony.Eros＠digital.com

The other gotcha on this one is that it's not Monsterboard, the well-known online job search company, but Monsterbook -- anybody ever heard of it before? Sort of an online version of getting a swell Alphine car stereo or Panaphonic VCR at your local discounters -- close, but no banana... -- Tony -----Original Message----- From: Jim Strickland [SMTP:jim@calico.litterbox.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 1999 12:27 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: <OT> Free stock shares Um no. What it SAYS is: "As a special promotion, MonsterBook.com has announced that if and when it files for an Initial Public Offering of shares in the future, within 1 month after the Public Offering of shares it will give you $10 cash (US Currency) for every friend you referred to MonsterBook.com who subscribed before May 1, 1999. Should you earn a Referral Bonus under this promotion, you will be able to choose to receive your Bonus as a cash payment, or to apply it toward the purchase of stock in MonsterBook.com. See agreement below for details " Which means after the stock has gone through its IPO gyrations, THEN they give you your 10 dollars toward stock. AND, according to the fine print, "This offer is limited to the first 1 million people to subscribe to receive the free MonsterBook Internet Directory in the mail, and the maximum Referral Bonus to be paid to any one person will be $500. " It's not a BAD deal, assuming the company lasts long enough to issue stock (and considering they're offering to flush capital down the toilet like that I wouldn't hold my breath) but it sure as heck isn't free stock. > > A US company is giving away free shares (like Yahoo did > at its beginning). They're called Monsterboard and are pretty big. > go to : http://www.monsterbook.com/SignUp2.asp > and sign up, all they want is your demographics. If you don't mind, > please give them my referral No. ( 277673 ). Hurry, they are only > taking the first one million people. They will probably have that > many within about 24 hours. > > If this is an imposition, don't bother with my referral No. If you > wish, register all by yourself. They just want name and address > and e-mail address. Since many of you already make that available, > on this list, I doubt they would have any more information. > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > -- Jim Strickland jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? -----------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 4 months

3
2
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sellers market

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:36 AM 3/22/99 -0800, you wrote: >> to too high. Some firm's engineer will probably guess right, but >> that firm won't win the auction. The winner will be the firm whose >> engineer was the most overoptimistic. The winning firm won't >> ultimately get as much oil as their engineers promised, meaning the >> firm paid too much. In short, the auction "winner" is Right. But, on eBay, nobody bids on "*Rare* Old computer! Could be an Altair, could be a C-64! Bid first, find out later!". >> This is a particularly clear example because the thing being >> auctioned will have a definite value in the future that is >> unknowable at present. But the winner's curse afflicts auction eBay is not selling futures. It's selling objects which (at least in terms of classic computers) are not being purchased (by us, anyway) with plans to resell at a profit. So for us, if we think an altair is worth $10, and we're outbid, we lose nothing. The guy who bids $10K and wins, may feel it is worth that much to easily and quickly obtain something they want. Again, no problem. The guy who bids $10K and wins, hoping to sell later for more money is either a) a shrewd investor and we're all just jealous, or b) an idiot who is going to lose his shirt. In the case of the latter, all it means is that we have to wait to get the altair for $10 until the fad dies down and we see naked guys wandering the street carrying altairs. (anyone see that beyond.com ad during the oscars? That's me. Only not so thin or good looking, unfortunately.) It's called Delay of gratification. Learn to be patient, all will come to you in its time. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 4 months

3
2
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Floppy drive Jumper question

by af-list＠lafleur.wfi-inc.com

Hi, Does anyone happen to have, in some vast catacombs of old manuals/docs, the jumper info for a Panasonic JU-475-2GRJ 5 1/4" floppy drive? Or maybe you can shed some light on what the following sections/jumpers might do? DS/MX DO/DC LR/RD DD/IX/SP AT/AX BX/CX HM/HS/HL MS/MM/HA/OA/DA I'm trying to get this drive working with my ATR8000 (recently resurrected >from the dead) and am not having much luck formatting disks with it. Any help would be much appreciated. Aaron

27 years, 4 months

2
3
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Museums

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

--------- > From: Ward D. Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Museums > Date: Thursday, March 25, 1999 1:14 > (The FCC stepped in because of complaints > from the close neighbors of folks running TRS-80 Model Ones (or Apple IIs > or Commodore Pets or S-100 boxen) on the other side of an unshielded wall > from a television with rabbit ear antenna in apartment buildings). Our Spectrum Management Agency (or whatever it's called this week) has a less enduser friendly attitude towards dipsticks in fringe areas that think they should be able to watch marginal signals on "rabbit ears" inside a substantial building. It amounts to "Get an outdoor antenna." No outdoor antenna, no valid grounds for complaint. There are no specific regs regarding emf emission >from computers, they have put the onus on the RECEIVER manufacturer to ensure adequate filtering & shielding from unwanted signals. The CB fad of the 70's was a direct cause of this, after it was discovered that perfectly functional CB's would drive certain televisions berserk because of stupid choices of IF frequencies (Amongst other "They did WHAT!" type design, um, features.) If you have a properly installed external antenna (Yagi of some kind - cut for the channels you are trying to receive) and proper coax feed into the set, and you are STILL getting interference, only then will they look into it. This attitude has cured enormous numbers of problems. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

27 years, 4 months

2
1
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Dayna File II

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I found a couple of these surplus. They're external 5 1/4" floppy drives and appear to have a SCSI connector. Does anyone know what system they're for? Are they SCSI? What voltage and polarity is the external power supply? Any details appreciated. Joe

27 years, 4 months

1
0
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Museums

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 2:58 PM Subject: Re: Museums >John Lawson wrote: >> So, okay.. I volunteer to hold a DEC-oriented 'open house' (my >> house...) once a month after the TRW swap meet here in Southern >> California. If anyone is interested, let me know. > >Well, geez! You rotten &*$%! :-) ok, now how close are you to an airport again? :) - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 4 months

6
7
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Dayna File II

by jruschme＠hiway1.exit109.com

<pre> I found a couple of these surplus. They're external 5 1/4" floppy drives and appear to have a SCSI connector. Does anyone know what system they're for? Are they SCSI? What voltage and polarity is the external power supply? Any details appreciated. </pre> They are SCSI and with the appropriate software would allow one to read PC-format disks on a Mac. Not sure about the adapter, but I *think* one can still find the software at: ftp://ftp.dayna.com/Pub/Macintosh/DaynaFile/ A couple of notes: 1) They've been discontinued for quite a while, so I don't know how well it will work with newer OS releases. 2) Apparently, they equipped them with different types of drives as I've seen ones with 360K, 1.2MB, and even 1.44MB floppy drives. I have to confess that I wouldn't mind finding a cheap one to play with. Unfortunately, the ones I've seen always seem to be out of my range. <<<john>>>

27 years, 4 months

1
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Dayna File II

by PB14＠leicester.ac.uk

On 25 Mar 99 at 12:21, Joe wrote: > I found a couple of these surplus. They're external 5 1/4" floppy drives > and appear to have a SCSI connector. Does anyone know what system they're > for? Are they SCSI? What voltage and polarity is the external power > supply? Any details appreciated. These probably come under the ten year rule. The oldest ones could be about twelve years old but they were made for several years. They are for reading DOS format 5.25" floppies on a Mac. Dayna made several variants for reading 360K and 1200K disks. I think that you'l need a system extension as well as the hardware itself.The drives should work on virtually any SCSI capable Mac, but they are >from the Mac II generation so don't be surprised if they're incompatible with recent system software. Dayna don't have a great record of supporting older hardware, alas. However these things do pop up rather a lot and the power supply pin outs have been posted on the comp.sys.mac.* news groups in the last year or so, so check out DejaNews. Phil ************************************************************** Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport University of Leicester Tel (0)116 252-2231 E-Mail pb14(a)le.ac.uk

27 years, 4 months

1
0
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Mark-8 microcomputer - interview with Jon Titus

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Andrew Davie wrote: > Hi Guys and Gals. > No, I'm not "back" but thought you might like an interesting read. > I've been working on interviewing Jon Titus, the creator of the first "home" > computer, the Mark-8 Minicomputer - which was featured in the July 1974 > issue of Radio Electronics. Very nice! Hope this might inspire more people to efforts like this. It is a part of the history that really needs to be documented! > ... One image, of > the RE front cover - was sent to me or I grabbed it from some website - but > alas I can't remember where or by whom. So, if it's yours please contact me > and I'll talk to you about copyright/image theft, etc. Well... judging from the file name, and the (not always subtle) Photoshop cleanup work... B^} It came from my site. You are welcome to it regardless. (at least as much as I can say that, not being a legal representitive of Gernsback Publications) ;^} Only thing I might suggest, would be the addition of a copyright attribution. (which I do in the 'alt' fields of the image link) > Without further ado, point your browser to > http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/mark8b.html > I'd really like some feedback on this one - it's taken a fair bit of work! I tried to reply but the mail bounced... In any case... THanks for your efforts! A valuable insight! Regards; -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

27 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Free stock shares

by jhfine＠idirect.com

A US company is giving away free shares (like Yahoo did at its beginning). They're called Monsterboard and are pretty big. go to : http://www.monsterbook.com/SignUp2.asp and sign up, all they want is your demographics. If you don't mind, please give them my referral No. ( 277673 ). Hurry, they are only taking the first one million people. They will probably have that many within about 24 hours. If this is an imposition, don't bother with my referral No. If you wish, register all by yourself. They just want name and address and e-mail address. Since many of you already make that available, on this list, I doubt they would have any more information. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine

27 years, 4 months

5
5
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Victory! (was: seller's market)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 11:47 PM 3/21/99 -0600, you wrote: >I can summarize this whole affair in four statements: You left out a few: >4. The {vultures|speculators} take over and pick the {carcass|hobby} > clean. 5. The fad dies out and the market collapses. 6. The {rubes|investors} begin to bail, selling their {collectibles|investment} for whatever they can get. 7. The poor guys from the beginning buy up the now plentiful supply at rock-bottom prices. In the end, the vultures and poor schmoes are happy, the suckers get fleeced, and all is well with the world. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 4 months

3
2
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Next monitors

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Jules, I'm in Orlando, Florida. Joe At 10:19 AM 3/25/99 -0000, you wrote: >>> Anyone need any of these? I found two pallets of them at a scrap place. >>> Looks like 16", 19" and 21" MegaPixel models. > >erm... where are you? I might know a few people in the UK who'd want >these, but don't think they'd want to pay overseas shipping :) > >cheers > >Jules >> >

27 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

sellers market - firearms

by Watzman＠ibm.net

E-Bay banned fire arms for two reasons: First, they couldn't do the background checks or check for stolen weapons. A legally valid reason, but likely an excuse. Second, if someone were assaulted with a weapon bought on E-Bay, the way things are going, E-Bay could be sued, and lose, BIG TIME. That's probably the real reason.

27 years, 4 months

7
10
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Mark-8 microcomputer - interview with Jon Titus

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

> http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/mark8b.html > I'd really like some feedback on this one - it's taken a fair bit of work! > Cheers > A > adavie(a)mad.scientist.com > Very nice! Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

27 years, 4 months

1
0
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Mark-8 microcomputer - interview with Jon Titus

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

Hi Guys and Gals. No, I'm not "back" but thought you might like an interesting read. I've been working on interviewing Jon Titus, the creator of the first "home" computer, the Mark-8 Minicomputer - which was featured in the July 1974 issue of Radio Electronics. Jon was kind enough to spend a considerable amount of his time typing up memories of the machine and how it all came about. I've placed this on my site, along with a few images. One image, of the RE front cover - was sent to me or I grabbed it from some website - but alas I can't remember where or by whom. So, if it's yours please contact me and I'll talk to you about copyright/image theft, etc. Without further ado, point your browser to http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/mark8b.html I'd really like some feedback on this one - it's taken a fair bit of work! Cheers A adavie(a)mad.scientist.com

27 years, 4 months

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pdp-11/83 looking for a good home

by mbg＠world.std.com

As usual, I'm simply forwarding thing along... contact the person in the post... - - - - - We have a PDP-11/83 system (BA123 worldbox, 2 DHQ11, RD54, TK50, LA120, LA324) that is looking for a home. It's running MicroRSTS and is working. We are located in northeast Ohio. Call or email me. Thanks, -- Joe Matuscak Rohrer Corporation 717 Seville Road Wadsworth, Ohio 44281 (330)335-1541 matuscak(a)rohrer.com

27 years, 4 months

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Museums

by mbg＠world.std.com

>One rumour was that they took the _last_ complete PDP6 and sold it off >like that :-(. What on earth were they playing at? That's what I had heard... and it had been a working pdp-6 donated by Stanford (I believe)... what a waste... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 4 months

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PS/2s nicer than expected; some questions

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 24.3.1999 16:47:20 Eastern Standard Time, CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com writes: > That's an extremely confusing statement, as MCA is quite common in > many small-to-medium RS/6000's from just a few years ago. How can > MCA compete against RS/6000's when it's part of many RS/6000's? > > I'm also confused by your statement that "MCA was discontinued", as IBM > continues to sell RS/6000's (both the R50 and the SP system 9076 are listed > in their February 1999 sales brochure) with MCA busses and MCA > cards and MCA peripherals. well, the person I asked didnt expound on his answer. Remember that big blue has different brands and I can only assume that the R6K division didnt like the PC company giving it competition. correction: for CONSUMER machines, MCA was discontinued unfortunately.

27 years, 4 months

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Next monitors

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>> Anyone need any of these? I found two pallets of them at a scrap place. >> Looks like 16", 19" and 21" MegaPixel models. erm... where are you? I might know a few people in the UK who'd want these, but don't think they'd want to pay overseas shipping :) cheers Jules >

27 years, 4 months

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Floppy drive Jumper question

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Mar 24, 19:24, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote: > Does anyone happen to have, in some vast catacombs of old manuals/docs, > the jumper info for a Panasonic JU-475-2GRJ 5 1/4" floppy drive? Or maybe > you can shed some light on what the following sections/jumpers might do? > > DS/MX > DO/DC > LR/RD > DD/IX/SP > AT/AX > BX/CX > HM/HS/HL > MS/MM/HA/OA/DA I had a similar problem with my Panasonic drive. It's a slighlty different suffix, but here's what I got when I phoned their tech support: ============================================================================== Panasonic JU-475-2.AGG 5.25" DD/HD (Tech.Support 01344 853508, head office 01924 821010) MX DS multiplex/drive-select DS1..DS4 Drive Select AT AX dual density control: AX latches it on DSn BX CX dual speed control: BX = 2-speed, CX = 360, open = 300 IRD Internal READY signal DD IX SP indicate DISK CHANGED on DSn/Index/Step HM HS HL head load with motor-on/select/in-use MS MM motor start with select/motor-on HA OA DA UA activity LED with (select and in-use)/(select or in-use)/select/(latch function, in-use) 1M force 1MB size (ie, not HD) JX force high speed only HH head load with select GX enable true READY on read-data FX enable true READY on index DR ready enable on select DO ?? door open ?? DC disk changed LR RDY READY NO AR (no)Auto Recall (factory testing) PR factory test 44 64 cylinder precomp for factory test MN factory test MSE factory test ============================================================================== And for interest (OK, mostly mine!) here's some other drive info from my meagre file. If anyone cares to expand upon it for my colection, I'd be grateful for any recieved wisdom: ============================================================================== Teac FD-55-BVU 5.25" set DS1, U2, FG. Remove READY, link XT. ============================================================================== Teac FD55-FB for XT 5.25" DS1 HM SM IU cut READY; MSDOS uses this for DISK-CHANGED ============================================================================== Teac FD55-GFV-17 5.25" DD/HD DS1 FG HG II DC U2 for 360K use DS1 FG LG I DC U2 and remove R19 ============================================================================== Mitsubishi MF504C-310MP 5.25" DD/HD PC-AT/386 link settings; names are conjecture IP no pins SG SB closed 300/360 rpm SS 300 rpm only NO DS0 DS1 closed DS2 MX DS3 DD HR IL IS MM closed motor start with MotorOn MS motor start with Select IR internal Ready? IU In Use? RI closed RD closed Ready? DC closed Disk Changed? then why RD and DC both made? SR Speed Ready? ============================================================================== M4854-35 5.25" DD/HD use DS0-3 as usual; MX = always selected HS HM HC HL : HEAD LOAD with select/motor-on/normal/in-use MM MS : MOTOR START with motor-on/select DC 2S : link both for DISK CHANGED SS SB : SS = 360 rpm; SB = 300/360 rpm I think FG is FRAME GROUND DC DISK CHANGED (instead of READY?) 2S double sided ? ============================================================================== NEC FD1055 5.25" HD/DD -- settings for BBC Micro DCG: 2 USE: 2 HDE: 2 LUS: 1 Note LUS, MON, HS, LED : unclear which pins the labels refer to HS: 1 LED: 1,5 ============================================================================== NEC FD1138H 3.5" HD/DD No jumpers visible ============================================================================== Unmarked 5.25" 40-trk Asia Commercial FD108 solder joint for READY has 2 LEDs 6-way shunt, ??/DS0/DS1/DS2/DS3/MUX set 101000 for AT ============================================================================== Fujitsu M2551A.28 5.25" 40-trk RDY link ============================================================================== Fuji FDD5883AOK (Toshiba) 5.25" HD/DD TM (made) PS (made) LD D4/3/2/1 MUX (link on interface pin2 to GND forces DD, disables HD) DE/DX (made DX) speed fixed-at-fast/depends-on-pin-2 (low=slow) SR DC (made) ============================================================================== TEC ND-352-TH-A 3.5" DD-only has 0-ohm link for RDY/DC DS0/1/2/3 selection OK on BBC Micro ============================================================================== Brother FB-620V 3.5" DD-only (OK side 0; won't write side 1 but reads OK) ============================================================================== TEC ND-356-TA 3.5" DD/HD OK on BBC with DS0 and pin2/?? don't care links DS0/DS1/TZ/?? TZ connects to pin2 (open seems to be OK for DD on BBC) 0-ohm link for RDY/DC ============================================================================== YE Data YD-702-6037 3.5" DD/HD DS0/1/2/3 slide switch P1 closed:LED with inuse or select; open: LED with select and motoron P2 closed disable LED? JP1 connects pin 2 ============================================================================== TEAC FD235-HF 3.5" DD/HD HHO OP LHI pin2 low = HD, high = DD ?? HHI pin2 low = DD, high = HD ?? normal setting seems to be OP and HHI closed; works on 286/386/486dx/BBC or OP closed; works on Carole's 386 and my Intel 486sx tends to give verify hiccups on tracks 9/19/29 etc on BBC OP+LHI works on 286 BBC: pin2 to GND else set LHI ============================================================================== -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 4 months

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Apple question

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I picked up an Apple Harddisk 20SC and an Apple tape backup 40SC today. Which Apples will these work on? Do you need any specail software or hardware to use them? Joe

27 years, 4 months

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Museums

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

-----Original Message----- From: Mike <dogas(a)leading.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, 25 March 1999 5:13 Subject: Re: Museums >I would also imagine the museum brick and morter will have to be >electronically shielded to allow things like trs-80 mod 1s to operate in a >commercial zone. You're kidding, right? I can't believe even US silly rules are that silly. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia. Email: geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au ICQ #: 1970476 Phone: 61-8-8633-8834 Mobile: 61-411-623-978 Fax: 61-8-8633-0104

27 years, 4 months

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Seller's market

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:58 AM 3/21/99 -0800, you wrote: >You first need to think about how the ebay >auction format results in higher than reasonable prices (since you seem to >have ignored all the arguments I've made to this point) and then see if I seem to have missed the reasons why eBay intrinsicly results in inflated prices. As far as I can tell, the reasons mentioned so far for high prices on eBay are: 1) idiots who don't know they can or are too lazy to find computers cheap at out-of-the-way places only open on Fridays 2) idiots who have too much money 3) too many idiots who want the same stuff as us geniuses 4) bidders who maliciously bid excessively to artificially raise selling prices so that the hated seller has to pay higher fees to eBay 5) eBay wants items to sell for higher prices 6) unsrupulous sellers who shill bid to increase prices (raising the bids of the folks mentioned in #2) Anything I missed? >at least 3 years know that what something sells for on ebay is ridiculous >compared to what its really worth. Well, I've been involved with various collectibles for nearly 30 years, and I have to agree. I bought two Chein tin wind-up Donald Ducks last fall through eBay for ridiculous prices -- about 25% of what I could have turned around and sold them for at any antique show. And the Sharp PC-5000 I got for $15 was pretty ridiculous, considering the significance of the machine. >Think of it this way: if a toy stuffed with beans that cost a couple >dollars to manufacture were to be made for sale in a way which makes >people perceive a scarcity, and that toy was then subsequently priced up >to $1000 because of dealers and price speculators feeding on the perceived >scarcity of that toy, is it really worth $1000? Don't answer that yet. >Now fast forward a couple years in time and the market runs its course, >people are fed up with this toy and don't care about it anymore. The fad >is over, the bottom of the market drops out, and the last sorry asshole to >pay $1000 for a toy stuffed with beans is left holding an item worth maybe >$50 to the person who still hasn't caught on that it was all just an >irrational frenzy to begin with. Hmmm... Sounds like numismatics in the 80's, gold and silver at various times, collector plates, etc., etc., etc. And your point is? Speculators who buy based on fads are idiots. "Buy the book before you buy the coin." Smart folks do their homework before spending a lot of money. No matter what the "investment opportunity!" is, those that get in before it hits big and get out at the peak make a lot of money. Those that don't, don't. (Think back to around 1929...) Btw, I still don't have a Commodore SX-64, one of the few portable versions of an 8-bit home machine, in my collection. There have been a lot up for bid on eBay, but they all seem to sell for just over $100. (The same price as they were going for at VCF 2.0, btw.) That's more than I'm willing to pay for a Commodore 64, no matter how portable. On the other hand, I put out close to $300 for 2 Zorba's (with Shipping from the east coast) that I got through eBay. I don't think that that's a ridiculous price to pay for a rather uncommon machine. (Especially since I'm getting manuals and software, plus a couple of Kaypros, an IBM portable, and a couple of other goodies to go with it.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 4 months

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Apple question

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>> I picked up an Apple Harddisk 20SC and an Apple tape backup 40SC today. >> Which Apples will these work on? Do you need any specail software or >> hardware to use them? > >SC means SCSI so will work on mac plus and later. you'll need sw for the TBU. >for hard drive, just set the ID and termination if needed, and go. if the >hard drive is set to boot id, (0, IIRC) and has a system folder, the mac will boot >from it. '0' is the id Apple traditionally uses for the internal hard drive, though it doesn't have to be. A Mac can boot from a SCSI HD with and id setting (eg. I've booted a Mac Plus off a Zip drive, which can only be set to id 5 or 6). If the hard drive doesn't have a System Folder, you should be able to just copy one off a boot floppy. This will usually work, though you'll have a very minimal system. Tom Owad

27 years, 4 months

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Next monitors

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Anyone need any of these? I found two pallets of them at a scrap place. Looks like 16", 19" and 21" MegaPixel models. Joe

27 years, 4 months

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Apple question

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 99-03-24 19:37:05 EST, you write: > I picked up an Apple Harddisk 20SC and an Apple tape backup 40SC today. > Which Apples will these work on? Do you need any specail software or > hardware to use them? > SC means SCSI so will work on mac plus and later. you'll need sw for the TBU. for hard drive, just set the ID and termination if needed, and go. if the hard drive is set to boot id, (0, IIRC) and has a system folder, the mac will boot >from it. david

27 years, 4 months

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Sellam's market

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 05:35 PM 3/19/99 -0800, Sam wrote: >On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > >> 2) boot disk for a Diskon (sp?) It's a CP/M (I think) system built into >> a Televideo terminal housing. It's primary claim to fame is spport for a >> LOT of alternate disk formats (my specialty) > >Is this the same as the Televideo 802? It sounds exactyly as you >describe. I just picked up the computer but no disks came with it >unfortunately. I don't think so. I have a service manual for the 802 and it lists the parts for both the 802 and 806 and none of the major parts are the same. I'm still like to find a 802. Joe

27 years, 4 months

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Kits vs ready-made (was RE: Rebirth of IMSAI)

by edick＠idcomm.com

Kits appeal to a much smaller segment of the market. Here in the US, selling kits offers a way to avoid having to meed stringent FCC specifications for electromegnetic interference, among other things. For that reason, if I were going to get into the business of selling a product, I'd let the initial kit sales pay for getting past the FCC testing/approval procedures. That way there would already be kit users out there to assist and teach ready-built product users so I would not have to do that. Kits are often more costly than ready-built products because kit builders fix their mistakes, while you can't expect the user of ready-made stuff to fix your mistakes. Tech support is a necessity, yet most kit builders don't need it. Tech support is what costs when you're selling a ready-built product for the home computer market. What scares me about the notion of resurrecting the really old IMSAI product line is that some of the designs, and this is more true of ALTAIR than of IMSAI, by the way, took the characteristics of the logic family they were using, mostly standard TTL, into consideration and would probably suffer >from glitches and other timing race conditions e.g. metastability if current-generation and available pin-compatible HCMOS or LSTTL logic were substituted. This probably wouldn't be too common, but I've done this (long ago) when these logic families were new, and had mixed-to-poor results. Mostly this was the result of placing a fast decoder where a slow one had previously been specified, and mostly the result was not serious except where one-shots (YUCHK!) and clocked logic were driven by it. This was particularly true in DRAM circuit interfaces. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 5:01 PM Subject: Re: Rebirth of IMSAI >> That's exactly why people don't build kits any more. The price so the >> individual parts is higher than the cost of the commercaily assembled > >There are plenty of reasons for building kits other than the fact it >might be cheaper than a finished product (and I agree, that's unlikely >these days) : > >1) Most kits come with _much_ better documentation that the finished >unit. It's rare to get an electronic kit without a schematic, for example. > >2) Since you assembled it, you know how to take it to bits for repair. > >3) You also know it was assembled correctly. Many finished devices that >I've seen recently were full of dry joints, misfitted parts, etc. > >4) It's a lot easier to modify a kit. > >5) You probably learn something from making a kit. > >6) It's fun :-) > >In case you hadn't guessed, some of us _do_ still build kits, and do >plenty of other things that make no financial sense at all ;-) > >> finished product. You need to find a surplus case that you can use. That >> would save a lot of money. Ditto the power supply and as many other parts >> as possible. > >If I ever produce a computer kit (unlikely, as in the UK, kits have to >meet the same EU directives as the finished unit..), I'd probably offer >at least 4 versions : > >1) Docs only (you get to find all the components, etch PCBs, etc) > >2) Complete kit, including case, PSU parts, connectors, fixings, etc. > >3) PCB + components only. Everything that goes on the PCBs and nothing >else. Well, I might include the mating parts for the connectors, but no >off-board components, metalwork, etc. > >4) 'Rare parts kit'. PCBs + programmed ICs (EPROMs, PICs, etc) + any >other chips that are hard to get. > >-tony >

27 years, 4 months

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CBM bonanza!

by black＠gco.apana.org.au

As anyone who follows any of my posts knows, I'm a dedicate Commie collector-freak. Well, today I scored the jackpot. Went to Glenorchy Tip Shop, one of the women that works there grabbed me & took me out the back (no, my luck hadn't changed) & said "I've been keeping something for you". Some business that had been holding old Commodore inventory dumped 12 removalist boxes (tea chest size) on 'em.... For $50 I scored 6 1571's, 3 1581's, 4 Commodore 128D's, three more 64C's, several CBM modems (1670's), around 40 cartridges, two more MPS 803 printers, two VIC 20's, two Xetec CBM to Centronics adaptors & a multitude of VIC, C64 & C128 software.... everything was still boxed & plastic wrapped.... This'll keep me happy for ..... ohhh.... a week or two :-) (Time to open a Commodore museum I reckon, the house no longer has any room ....... & my partner is threatening to move out.... oh well, the 'puter are more entertaining anyway.....) cheers, Lance

27 years, 4 months

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Museums

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> I was thinking that the important part of all this is just to get <> SOMETHING started. Don't worry about all the costs of going all out to <> create a computer museum type organization. Just start out with what yo <> can to begin with. Even if that means a garage party every month among <> local collectors then that's a good start. From there, people will get Therein lies the essence of getting going. Inspired comment. Right now Megan and I seem to be the most voluminous collectors on the eastern MA area and we are close to each other. To get something going needs critical mass greater than two. Allison

27 years, 4 months

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Museums

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I hear there are some of the Rt 128 DEC buildings are sitting empty, <perhaps they will give you a discount if you only run DEC equipment in them Even more in the 495 rim, DEC vacated a lot of buildings. Allison

27 years, 4 months

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Rebirth of IMSAI

by edick＠idcomm.com

That's exactly what Todd Fischer was writing about building. I certainly hope he doesn't do it. Those cases or, for that matter, any cases, in low volume, meaning fewer than, say 5000 per week, would be the bulk of the cost of nearly any computer. When you can use the most sophisticated machinery to make a simple product, however, the cost comes back down around $3 per pound. That's why, although I can't buy a decent fan for my power supply for under $40, though I can buy a power supply for $35, I can buy the case, with power supply and a fan, though still not a "decent" fan, for $27. It's the economy of scale. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 4:09 PM Subject: Re: Rebirth of IMSAI >On Wed, 24 Mar 1999, bluoval wrote: >> Why not just build a kit w/out the case, or sell the case seperate? I'd gladly >> buy a kit like that and install it in a metal file cabinet. That'll cut the >> costs, if metalwork is that expensive. > >The separate sales of the case could be the big money maker! I would >think that a lot of the clueless yuppies that overbid for them on e-bay >would be even happier with an "IMSAI" case containing a current Pentium >motherboard. (How many here are familiar with Excalibur cars?) > >-- >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com ><A HREF="http://www.xenosoft.com">XenoSoft</A> >

27 years, 4 months

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PS/2s nicer than expected; some questions

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>there is info on family 1 and ps2 products. I got from a good source that the >reason MCA was discontinued was because if the bus speed was increased in >order to keep up with PCI, that would have started encroaching on the RS/6K >machines. That's an extremely confusing statement, as MCA is quite common in many small-to-medium RS/6000's from just a few years ago. How can MCA compete against RS/6000's when it's part of many RS/6000's? I'm also confused by your statement that "MCA was discontinued", as IBM continues to sell RS/6000's (both the R50 and the SP system 9076 are listed in their February 1999 sales brochure) with MCA busses and MCA cards and MCA peripherals. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 4 months

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Rebirth of IMSAI

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

Eric Smith wrote: >Tim Shoppa wrote: >> You forgot one vital component: the switches. The 7101 and 7103 series >> switches used in the IMSAI front panel are still available new from C&K, >> at $5-$6 each. >Hmmm... does that include the handles? Yep. The relevant part numbers for the switches are C&K 7101-J4-Z-Q-E and 7105-J4-Z-Q-E. >Are the correct colors available? C&K was the OEM for the IMSAI switches, and the colors will match what your IMSAI switches looked like when new. (If you've had yours exposed to sunlight, it's possible that the colors have faded.) NKK makes a very similar line of switches, but the colors are very slightly different. >My IMSAI switches are all intact (and factory-original AFAIK), but it wouldn't >hurt to get some spares. If you only need a few, Jim Willing is the guy to buy them from. When I was building TIMSAI's, I needed a few hundred and got a considerable price break by buying from a C&K distributor. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 4 months

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