Ok, this is a long shot.
Background: DSSI disk controller (KFQSA), two DSSI disks (RF71's), BA213
Chassis, with a three disk active control panel on the front. The control
panel has three "unit number" plug in keys. One labeled "0", one labeled
"1", and one blank. One RF71 is plugged into the top connector and one is
plugged into the middle connector. In this configuration the "ready" lights
under the UNIT1 and UNIT0 plugs light up on power up.
Symptom: The controller only sees one of the two drives. The drive it sees
is the one connected to the control port with plug id '0' in it. If I swap
the ID plugs, the drive that gets talked to also swaps.
Other Data: In the PARAMS program on these disks (or perhaps in the
controller I don't know which) there are several "MSCP" variables
associated with the drive. One of them is "UNITNUM" which defaults to 0.
Both disks initially had unit numbers in this field of 0. I set one of them
to have a UNITNUM of 1, wrote it with the WRITE command and power cycled.
Rerunning PARAMS shows it now thinks it is unit 1, but it doesn't respond
if it is connected to the control panel with the unit 1 plug in it.
There are a few other parameters that I can set one is called "FORCEUNI"
which defaults to 'true'. I've tried turning it off on one of the disks
(where I set the unitnum to 1, but to no avail).
Triva Challenge: One of my thoughts was that perhaps the ID plug was
incorrectly "customized". The "0" plug has one center plug on top and one
center plug on bottom. The "1" plug has the center and right leg in, and
the center leg on the bottom. I'm wondering if it is actually another unit
number.
Misc Note: With the #3 and #4 switches "on" on the KFQSA, the board shows
up both in the Qbus scan and in the SHOW DEV scan as disk controller 0.
Any help appreciated...
--Chuck
I have the manual and several of these controllers. It is actually a Model
650.It sounds like yours has the 655/656 ROMS in location L4 and K4 since it is
responding as a DM: (RK06/7). There is page after page of configuration tables
for jumper settings depending on what drive and RK to emulate.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: Jacob Ritorto <jritorto(a)nut.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, July 27, 1999 11:19 PM
Subject: xylogics smd interface for pdp11
>Would someone please provide docs or setup info for the following
>scantily-marked unibus SMD controller:
>
>Xylogics #300-101-600 rev B L6
>
>doc. pkg. no. 300-101-902 Rev G serial no. 1103
>
>A few hand-written and typed labels are still attached to the socketed
>chips (presumably geometry/emulation codes):
>[handles forward, components up, edge connector facing you]
>
>along the left side, column of 8 big chips.
>4th down: " 766/BU4 "
>6th down: " 768/BU4 "
>
>six inches in from left; four inches down from handles, by itself
>: " -173E "
>
>slightly right of center; starting three inches down; column of four chips
>: " 242D "
>: " 245C "
>: " 244C "
>: " 243C "
>
>just below those, group of six chips, most missing their labels but top
>right is still there and reads : "799HC "
>
>That's all I can glean. Seems to show up as DM: under rt, but I don't
>know what size/shape of drive it expects or what partitioning it's willing
>to perform...
>
>BTW, Thanks John if you're lurking here somewhere...
>
>TIA
>
>jake
Hi folks, this is not really on topic as the machine in question doesn't
fit the ten year rule. But the list is a way to make first contact with
this query though. Reply off-list if you please.
Assuming one or more of you on the list are well-versed or even expert with
the T4400C, I pose a question to a problem I would like some advice on. The
machine belongs to my uncle and I'm helping him solve the problem.
As you may know this is a 1992 vintage machine: 486DX, 25 MHz, 12 Mb RAM,
120 Mb hdd, VGA color LCD display plus a Toshiba Desk Station IV docking
station. He installed Windows 95 and a sound card and CD-ROM drive into the
Desk Sta. IV.
He got the laptop second-hand and of course the manual was missing. The
D.S. IV was new, fresh outta the box and has a manual. The sound card and
CD-ROM is a Reveal SC400 package he scrounged from an old machine. Driver
disks came with it at least.
Problem is that the CD-ROM drive is not interested in working with the
system. W95 does not see it.
The sound card has the IDE interface meant for the Panasonic CD-ROM (which
is model CR-563-B) and the CD drive is plugged into that. So, BIOS setup
for setting a second IDE device does not work in this case. Looks like
there's no provision in the BIOS for a second IDE (slave) device anyway.
Apparently (and be aware that this is the very first time I've ever fiddled
with a sound card/CD-ROM combination) the drivers for the CD-ROM are part
of the sound card drivers. Well, the drivers predate the release of W95 by
a couple of years and Windows 3.1 and DOS are of course the only operating
systems mentioned in the installation. One of the attempts at installation
seemed to let W95 know there's a CDROM and sound card but the CDROM was not
accessable and the "undocked" mode caused W95 to try to fuss with the
drivers, etc. to get itself running. The CDROM was correctly set to be
present in "docked" mode and not present in "undocked" mode. Same for the
sound card.
Has anybody installed a CDROM and sound card set into their Desk Station IV
and gotten it running okay under W95?
Has anyone even installed W95 onto their T4400C? Results?
Thanks for your experiences.
Regards, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
Check our redesigned website!
URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/
<>Quantum D540 is the RD52, 31mb and faster than either of the seagates.
<>Also the 251 has a lousy track record for reliability (heat and skimpy spi
<>bearings).
<
< The Q540 was spec'd at, I believe, 35ms...but the ST251-1 (not 251) was 2
<I do agree about the heat and spindle bearing issues, though, 100%. I hav
<*never* seen a '540 fail. And they made much cooler sounds. :-)
The 8 heads vs 4 makes up for the difference in access as you can see twice
the data before moving the head, in real use acess time averaged better for
the d540. That was especially tue after the 251 dies. Also the D540 is a
servo vs the 251s stepper positioner so that impact reliability. Never
format a cold 251... the tracks move.
< Hmm. I think I'll ask them about the prices. By the "yet", are you
<suggesting that someone is working on it? :-)
Maybe Megan but, not I.
Allison
I know of someone wanting to sell a Wang 2200MVP. Is anyone interested? I
don't know what he's asking for it..
Kevin
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's you isn't it? THE BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL!"
"In the flesh, on the phone and in your account..."
-- BOFH #3
Ok, a diagnostic puzzle.
I've got a uVAX with two RF71 DSSI disks in it, before I knew how to talk
to them properly I had netbooted NetBSD and saw that it reported both
RF71s. I tried to talk one of them and the fault light came on (did a
diskinfo kind of thing.)
At the time I figured it was just the lack of a terminator. Now I'm not so
sure.
The other RF71 (which still came up ready) has now been tested formatted
and mounted under netbsd indicating all is well with that part of the world.
So how can I figure out the fault on the other drive? Where to look? I'm
going to try playing around with the internal "DUP" stuff this after noon.
--Chuck
Larry Simonsen (LSimonsen(a)FLOWSERVE.COM) posted elsewhere:
We have a 3000/37 available.
It has 4 discs for a total of 1.65 Gig; 5 port boxes (8 ports per box); a
DDS 1300H, and an open reel tape drive 7974.
Anyone interested?
For collectors, an HP 3000 Series 37 is about the size of a desktop PC
(slightly heavier), and runs MPE V. (No, you can't run Linux on it.)
It's a CISC stack-based machine. The disk drives mentioned are all
external boxes of some kind, connected via HPIB (no, you can't use SCSI).
The machine is in Edmonton , Alberta, Canada.
If interested, contact Larry directly, not me.
Here's an update for the archives so that others might benefit from the
knowledge:
I have a uVAX 3900 (KA655 CPU) with a KFQSA controller in it, the software
didn't "see" it. I had heard that one of the switch settings controlled if
the controller grabbed an address or not, so I flipped the switches (there
are only 4) until I found it, the combination (1,2,4-off, 3-on) was successful.
This vax boots to the chevron (>>>) prompt when the console control switch
is set to the dot inside the circle icon. At the prompt two interesting
commands are your friend. The first is
>>> SHOW QBUS
which shows you the devices that the CPU sees. It will also identify those
it recognizes. At first mine did not "see" the KFQSA, after flipping some
switches it did, and then I could type:
>>> SET HOST/DUP/UQSSP/DISK 1
and it got into the DUP menu that had drive information. Now why DISK 1?
Because DISK 0 is having problems. There is an ID jumper on the disk
somewhere that tells the card what disk it thinks it is I believe.
After getting into DUP I did ERASE and the DRVTST and both seemed to work
so we're off to the races yet again...
--Chuck
Someone is asking me about an NEC 8012A. Anyone know
anything about this system?
-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw(a)trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com
Ok, not very classic yet (not for another couple of years), but their
"coolness factor" is pretty high, so...
For a total of about $50, I just picked up three NCR System 3400 series
MCA machines. They're pretty impressive, both in features and in weight,
especially when one considers that not many manufacturers outside of IBM
ever did MicroChannel buses.
One has a pair of Seagate 'Elite' drives (2.9 gig SCSI) along with two
Maxtor 8760S's, and another has dual 486 CPU's, an Exabyte 8200, and a QIC
tape drive. A little digging has turned up that they'll run NT, Solaris,
and a few others. NCR still had all the support disks and files on their
web site, so that's taken care of.
Onward!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies
http://www.bluefeathertech.com
Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com
SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905)
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
In einer eMail vom 7/28/99 3:59:31PM, schreiben Sie:
<<
Hi Gang:
I have a Unibus bootstrap/terminator board with 4 ROMs on it. According to
the field guide:
M9301-YF U M9301 with boot for PC11, RP02-6, RS03-4,
RK05-6,
RX01, TU10, TU16, TU56, TS03, TTY, ASCII
console, diagnostics
There's a 10 position DIP switch on the board.
Anyone know how to set the DIP switches to select the various bootstraps?
What diagnostics are in the ROMs? This could be helpful.
Thanks in advance,
Kevin
--
Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD
mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca
>>
I do have the maintenance manual describing all this, and a software listing.
I will send you that info tonight, when I am where the manual is.
John G. Zabolitzky
Hi Gang:
I have a Unibus bootstrap/terminator board with 4 ROMs on it. According to
the field guide:
M9301-YF U M9301 with boot for PC11, RP02-6, RS03-4,
RK05-6,
RX01, TU10, TU16, TU56, TS03, TTY, ASCII
console, diagnostics
There's a 10 position DIP switch on the board.
Anyone know how to set the DIP switches to select the various bootstraps?
What diagnostics are in the ROMs? This could be helpful.
Thanks in advance,
Kevin
--
Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD
mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca
Hi, everyone. :-)
I'm looking around for businesses that sell new or used DEC
equipment...and a little bit of help as well, since I don't yet know
PDPs as well as I'd like to. ;-)
I'm in the process of getting a PDP-11/23+ which has no hard disks
or tape drive. The computer itself comes with a few cards, but most of
them I'm not sure what I can do with.
The cards that come with the system are:
M8190 (11/73 processor)
Emulex M8087 (No one has been able to find out what this board
is...wrong numbers?)
Berg M8020 (Single-line serial EIA sync interface)
With that in mind, what do I need to get the system to the point where
it will boot? I know what the processor card will do, but what about
the others?
Thanks in advance,
Chris
> Anyway do the MFM controllers in PROs have the same hard-coded drive model
>restrictions as their Qbus big brothers, like the RQDXn family?
On a PRO, the MFM hard drive is ID'd by the number of heads and
number of cylinders. If you look at, for example, DW.MAC on a RT-11
distribution kit, you'll find the table quite easily. You can add
your own devices to the table - just keep in mind that it has to
be in ascending order by heads, and then ascending order by
cylinders.
OK, the above is a bit of an oversimplification - if the drive in
question happens to be a RD50, the drive might be damaged by the
seek test that counts the number of cylinders. So RD50's
are identified by a bit in the status/init register, and not
by the seek test.
The PRO's MFM controller only allows 3 bits for the head ID and 10
bits for the cylinder ID, so you can only use drives up to 8
heads and 1024 cylinders (aka the RD53).
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
Hi folks,
I'm helping an ex-work colleague with an HP Vectra. It's the very first
model of the Vectra (from ca. 1986) and is commonly called the "Classic
Vectra". It's a 286 running at 6 MHz, 1 meg RAM . . . you know, the
typical AT clone.
The setup floppy disk is now missing and we need to find the setup program
for the machine. About 2 years ago or so I had downloaded the Classic
Vectra setup program from HP's website. I searched HP's site now and cannot
find any setup files for these old machines anymore.
Anybody know if the setup files are still online at HP and if so where are
they? If nothing is on HP's site anymore does anybody have a copy of the
setup file for the _Classic_ Vectra they could email to me?
Thanks for all your help with this!
Regards, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
Check our redesigned website!
URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/
Back in the early '80's I had this 14" 20MB Century Data Marksman drive
which I soon gave away. I recently found the interface manual for it, i.e.
a document which is apparently intended for one to interface the built-on
controller/formatter to a Z-80. It includes some code examples, etc.
Would this be of use to anyone?
Dick
>Then wide open space. :-) [meta question, presumably DEC had fill plates
>for the empty slots?]
If you mean the cover plates for the BA213, and not slot fillers, yes...
>When I boot the cpu does all of its diagnostics but it doesn't "see" the
>KFQSA. One of the drives blinks fault the other rattles around a bit and
>then blinks ready.
In my experience, the drives are really flakey... I've got a couple
which have been working one week, then after a power-down, they went
fault, never to work again...
> When I type SHOW DEV to the uvax prompt it show the ethernet and
> tape but NOT the KFQSA. Is that normal if the disks are not
> inited?
It can happen until such time as the KFQSA haas been set to respond to
addresses... there is a switch setting on the board which has to be set
a certain away to be able to program it with at least one address...
when it responds to one address, then the SET HOST command can be used.
> When I type Megan's command "SET HOST/MAINT/QSSP/SERVER 0"
> to access the internal controller on the KFQSA I get
> >>>SET HOST/MAINT/UQSSP/SERVER 0
> ?28 UNK SW
That's because it is /UQSSP, not /QSSP
but it may not work if the board hasn't been seup yet.
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
Some 8" drives, notably those from Shugart, had optional circuitry which you
could install yourself, BTW, to do things like recover clock from the data
stream, hence the SEPDAT and SEPCLK signals, and mask the sector pulses if
you wanted to use hard sectored media in a soft-sectored mode, or whatever.
The signal you are probably going to want is the raw data, which is common
to all of the various versions. Oddly enough, the half dozen or so SIEMENS
drives I have all have this logic as standard.
the use of the same signal as both clock and data stems from the fact that
FM data has the clock embedded in it. Hence, if you don't separate them on
the drive, the controller does that by taking the signals whether they're
separated or not, and feeding them to the respective circuits whose job it
is to process them. They then use the signals either combined or separated,
and process them as they need.
These circuits are the things which got many people into the habit of
referring to a drive as being either single or double density capable.
Without them, they're all capable of either, since the rate at which flux
reversals are written on the medium is still the same. MFM simply
integrates the clock and data in a way which doesn't waste half the
bandwidth on clock pulses.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Sudbrink <bill(a)chipware.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, July 27, 1999 4:53 PM
Subject: RE: Cromemco 4FDC, How do you format a disk?
<snip>
>
>According to the docs, you have to tell the controller
>which drive type it is talking to (bit 4 at I/O address
>34 hex). Looking at the schematics, it sure looks like
>it blindly shoots signals to both connectors. FDAT is
>connected to pin 30 on the 34 pin header and pin 48 on
>the 50 pin header. Hmmm... what's going on here? Pin 48
>is SEP DATA, used with hard sectored drives isn't it?
>Pin 50 is connected to FCLK as well.
>
>What gives?
It used to be so nice.
But the dehumidifier hose got clogged while I was gone.
The room filled with mildew.
I came home and rushed to save my stuff, mostly successfully. The TU10
was affected, though. I don't know for sure if the dampness was the
cause, but I'm guessing it was. Here are the symptoms:
under rt11 5.00, it won't init a tape. used to do this w/ no problem. rt
returns "output error on mt0:" The tape spins and tries to init, but
after going back and forth a number of times, it gives up. So the
mechanism and control logic seems fine. I've tried different tapes and
cleaned and degaussed the head. No change. Jiggled all the cards in the
controller and device section to 'assure' a good connection. Nothing. I
even tried using an old copy of ROLLIN, just to see if it'd do a backup,
but it moved the reels and instantly gave a FATAL DEVICE ERROR on MT0.
Unfortunately, my xxdp pack is thrashed (moldy), so until I can
replace it, I'm stuck with trial and error here... help if you can,
please!
The subject pretty much says it all...
I can't seem to figure out how to initialize
a disk with this controller. I'm sure you do
it via the WRITE TRACK command, but I don't
follow what it is that you are supposed to
OUT to the DATA REGISTER. Also, just for
laughs and because I have hundreds of disks
(thanks AOL!), I want to hook up a 3 1/2"
floppy to it. This should be OK, shouldn't
it? How many tracks and sectors-per-track?
What interleave? Finally, I gathered up all
of the CP/M 2.2 stuff I could find on the web...
I've been looking through all of the docs...
They all seem to make the assumption that you
already have a CP/M system disk, on the correct
media, properly formatted and all you need to do
is get your system specific BIOS onto it.
Looking at the BIOS level implementation, it
seems that CP/M doesn't have a native format
command?
Thanks,
Bill Sudbrink
>Anyone know the procedure? Can it be done? Do I need some special
>diagnostic program (do vaxes run XXDP?)
I forget if they can be formatted, but I do know that they can
be erased and scanned... but you need to have something which
speaks DU Protocol (DUP)... if you have a uVaxII or uVaxIII,
you have what you need...
You have to use one of the maintenance commands from the uVax
console...
One of the commands of the form
SET HOST/MAINT/UQSSP/SERVER n
where n is the number of the UQSSP port.
Once the DUP starts up, it will prompt for a command or
filename... type DIRECT and it will give you a listing
of what is available. Some drives have different numbers
of programs available, so try what looks obvious.
BTW - the DUP protocol is essentially a protocol which
causes the VAX and the KFQSA to exchange packets of text.
You type something, it is packetized and sent to the KFQSA
where it is passed to code running in the disk. The output
of that code is passed back to the VAX in a packet.
I don't know of anything else which speaks it (unless there
is something on the user test TK50 under MDM).
And it is a proprietary protocol, so I can't explain the
specifics.
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
<> The 1771 is a single density only controller and not suitable for use wit
<> 3.5" disks. You want a board with a 765 (compupro) or 1793 CCS and a raf
<
<Are you claiming that you can't format/use a 3.5" disk at single density?
<Now, I can't think of a machine that did, but equally I can't think of a
<reason why you can't. The floppy drive really doesn't care how you
One, at the lower data rates the 1771 is running below the 3.5" floppies
720khz rates and the 1771 does not do the faster one! So to be compatable
with a 3.5" drive you need to run the 1771 at the 8" single density rate to
get a something approximating 720k disk. At that rate your running at
250Kbits/Sec wich is the bottom data date for 3.5" floppies.
Personally that is is a lot of effort as you will have to rewrite the bios
for the different tracks/sectors and also allow for sides. OH, forgot that
most SD controllers did only one side. If your going to the effort why not
use a good DD controller and run the dsik up to the 1.44-1.6MB range? At
that amount of storage CP/M feels like your using a slow hard disk.
I know this from putting 3.5" floppies on my Vt180s, Ampro, Kaypro, SB180,
CCS and compupro systems. All use 1793 or 765 DD controllers.
Allison
<According to the docs, you have to tell the controller
<which drive type it is talking to (bit 4 at I/O address
<34 hex). Looking at the schematics, it sure looks like
<it blindly shoots signals to both connectors. FDAT is
<connected to pin 30 on the 34 pin header and pin 48 on
<the 50 pin header. Hmmm... what's going on here? Pin 48
<is SEP DATA, used with hard sectored drives isn't it?
<Pin 50 is connected to FCLK as well.
<
<What gives?
Some 8" drives have data seperation on the disk drive and some boards used
that. NOTE: there will also be raw data from the disk and that may actually
be used. Of the 50 pins there are often many unused.
Allison
Ok, finally got a moment to put together some bits in my uVAX 3900 in the
BA213 cabinet. I've got it built as follows (from right to left)
KA655
32MB Memory
32MB Memory
DECSQA (ethernet)
KFQSA (DSSI)
TQK70 (TK70 contoller)
Then wide open space. :-) [meta question, presumably DEC had fill plates
for the empty slots?]
In the top part I've got a TK70, and two RF71's. The RF71's are connected
to the KFQSA via an internal cable that daisy chains first the rightmost
drive then the left drive and then ends at a bulkhead that has a mini
connector (looks like SCSI2). On that connector I've got a DSSI terminator
plugged in.
When I boot the cpu does all of its diagnostics but it doesn't "see" the
KFQSA. One of the drives blinks fault the other rattles around a bit and
then blinks ready.
Some questions:
The front panel has the disk lights bulkhead configured for
three disks. I connected the small connector of the rightmost
disk to disk one connector and the left disk to the second drive
connector. Is that correct?
When I type SHOW DEV to the uvax prompt it show the ethernet and
tape but NOT the KFQSA. Is that normal if the disks are not inited?
When I type Megan's command "SET HOST/MAINT/QSSP/SERVER 0"
to access the internal controller on the KFQSA I get
>>>SET HOST/MAINT/UQSSP/SERVER 0
?28 UNK SW
Any ideas anyone?
--Chuck
You'll need to spend a bit of time studying out how the controller you're
using handles the drive select or even a cable select if it has separate
selection on the 34 and 50-conductor cables, and whatever it does to
manipulate the clock extraction circuits to derive the appropriate clock for
whatever data rate you're wanting. BE CAREFUL! Some controllers switch the
clock frequency as they make whatever assumptions they may make about the
nature of what's on each cable. In order to drive 3.5" diskettes, you need
to fool the controller and software into believing it's talking to a drive
on the 50-pin cable. Though the 8" drives have only 77 tracks, they have
the 360 rpm spin rate and most other parameters in common with the little
teensy drives. If your controller switched the clock assuming its top data
rate will be 250 kbps, you may have problems.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, July 27, 1999 3:29 PM
Subject: RE: Cromemco 4FDC, How do you format a disk?
>At 04:38 PM 7/27/99 -0400, Allison wrote:
>>The 1771 is a single density only controller and not suitable for use with
>>3.5" disks. You want a board with a 765 (compupro) or 1793 CCS and a raft
>>of others.
>
>Which defines, for the most part, the difference between a 4FDC and a
>16FDC. The latter used the 1793 I believe. I've got a copy of the Western
>Digital databook that has these ICs in it if someone needs a copy.
>
>BTW, I wrote the formatter for CP/M on the 16FDC (in Turbo Pascal no less
>:-)) and it simply loaded up a buffer, then did a write track and stuffed
>the buffer with an OUTIR instruction. (the board did wait states so this
>worked.) The process involved creating a buffer and using special 8 bit
>codes for "sector gap" and "index mark" and "sync mark". I've long since
>given away that code but the person I gave it to is lurking on this list...
>
>--Chuck
>
This thing will supposedly execute 'highlighted' Forth and 6800 assembly
code with some (leap)key gyrations... Anyone know?
Thanks
- Mike: dogas(a)leading.net
Yes! I finally scored a Pro380, well, actually it's a "VAX Console", but
hey, same thing right?
Question, does it use the same monitor as the DECmate and Rainbow's? I
know there was a colour and a mono version of the monitor, is do they both
work on the same computer, or do you have to match specific computers to
specific monitors? Having asked that, I should be getting the monitor in
the next few days from the person I just got the computer from.
I know it's got a RD52 in it, and I suspect it's a working system as it is
off a system that is currently being deinstalled (which is why I don't have
the monitor yet).
Yes, it's safe to assume I'm fairly clueless about Pro's.
This is so COOL!!!!
Zane
OK, I'm calmed down now.... NOT!!! :^)
Yep, I'm bouncing :^)
You'd never guess I've been wanting one of these would you? :^)
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
Doug,
At 08:53 PM 8/18/98 -0500, you wrote:
>On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Joe wrote:
>
>> I got another HP toy today. Another HP 9821! I already have one and
>> this is only the third one in existance that I know of. A collector in New
>> York has the other one. Does anyone know where I can find some manuals
>> for a HP 9820 or HP 9821?
>
>So, what's the diff between the 9820 and 9821? You can probably get an
>idea of how rare they are by looking at the serial numbers on the two you
>have. I know a guy with 9820A docs. If you don't find them elsewhere,
>bug me, and I'll bug him for a copy.
>
>-- Doug
>
Can you bug the guy that has the 9820 docs? I still haven't found any.
I'm writing some articles about the 9800 calculators for the upcoming HP
confernce and I need to find out more about the 9805, 9810 and 9820.
Joe
>under rt11 5.00, it won't init a tape. used to do this w/ no problem. rt
>returns "output error on mt0:" The tape spins and tries to init, but
>after going back and forth a number of times, it gives up. So the
>mechanism and control logic seems fine. I've tried different tapes and
>cleaned and degaussed the head. No change. Jiggled all the cards in the
>controller and device section to 'assure' a good connection. Nothing. I
>even tried using an old copy of ROLLIN, just to see if it'd do a backup,
>but it moved the reels and instantly gave a FATAL DEVICE ERROR on MT0.
It's clear from the above that you can't do a tape write, but it's not
clear where the problem is because a write involves both the read and
write channels. What happens when you try to read a known good tape?
If you know the problem is reading, it's straightforward to hook a
scope up to the read channel and trace the head signals through at
least to the formatter. If you know the problem is writing, you trace
through from the formatter to the write heads.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
I was moving a cart full of HP I/O gear from system to system last night to
do some testing. On top of the cart was a DEC vt220 terminal. The keyboard
fell off, hit the ground and basically disintegrated!
Anyone have a spare vt220 keyboard or know where I might find one cheap?
Thanks!
Jay West
> Believe it or not, I got the system because I want to run POS, but might
> use it for RT-11 also.
RT-11 runs pretty nicely on a Pro. It's no longer officially supported,
but if you buy a RT-11 5.7 RX50 distribution from Mentec you will get a floppy
that boots on a Pro, and it is fully Y2K compliant.
>Am I correct in assuming that POS is also available at the UU.se site? It
>looks like it might be there in Teledisk images.
If you'd rather have "straight block-by-block" RX50 images, look at
ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/pro/
These are a bit easier to use (with PUTR) than the teledisk images.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
Here's a guy wanting to get rid of an old Olympus printer. Please reply
to him.
Reply-to: lberke(a)bellatlantic.net
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0!
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 05/25/99]
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:56:34 -0400
From: Lee Berkebile <lberke(a)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: donations
It was an early printer, based on a typewriter mechanism (Olympus, I
believe). I used it with a Commodore 64 (this should help date it) soon
after the Commodore came out. The nine pin dot-matrix printers available
then gave poor print quality. The Daisy wheel printers gave typewriter
quality, albeit slowly, and had all the features such as subscript,
superscript, bolt, underline, etc. The Commodore printers of that era did
not have descenders for the lower case g, j, p, and y letters, for
instance.
I believe the price was $240.00
Cheers,
Lee
John,
Did I ever get payment to you for these?
Jon
>Hello -
>
>I have 2 "Principles of Operation" and 1 "Maintenance Instruction"
>manuals. Free for the cost of shipping. These manuals cover models
>CT-4964, CT-6644, CT-7484.
>
>john
>
>--
>
>***********************************************************************
>* John Ott * Email: jott(a)saturn.ee.nd.edu *
>* Dept. Electrical Engineering * *
>* 275 Fitzpatrick Hall * *
>* University of Notre Dame * Phone: (219) 631-7752 *
>* Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA * *
>***********************************************************************
>
>
Bill:
Ask your friend if he'll be willing to hang on to it for a few
of weeks-- I'm in Kansas, and I could come a pick it up! (But
can't do it right away).
Thanks!
Jeff
On Tue, 27 Jul 1999 04:01:29 GMT bill_r(a)inetnebr.com (Bill Richman)
writes:
> A friend of mine has rescued the following equipment. (I don't know
> HP
> stuff, so I'll give a general description and some numbers.)
>
> Two big, _heavy_ boxes about the size of 2-drawer filing cabinets:
>
> Box 1 contains modules marked-
> HP 9000/300
> HP 9000/300
> HP 98720A
>
> Box 2 contains modules marked-
> HP 7958B
> HP 9000/300
> HP 98720A
>
> There is also a large RGB monitor, HP #98751A, at least two (HPIB,
> so
> I'm told by an HP-head) keyboards and mice, video cables, etc.
>
> He offered it to me but I have no use for it. It's big, bulky, and
> heavy, so if you're interested in it, you'll have to arrange for
> transportation from Lincoln, Nebraska. A few bucks thrown in his
> direction for dragging the stuff home from the brink of destruction
> wouldn't be out of line either - maybe $50 or $100 if the stuff is
> worth
> anything to you. If you want any/all of this stuff, let me know by
> Wednesday, because I'm sure he'll be tired of dragging it around in
> his
> van by then. He'll probably have used up the $50-100 in extra gas!
>
>
>
> -Bill Richman (bill_r(a)inetnebr.com)
> http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r - Home of the COSMAC Elf
> Microcomputer
> Simulator, Fun with Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and
> Technological Oddities.
>
___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
In a message dated 7/26/99 9:43:45 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com writes:
>
> Does ANYone have, or know where I can get, the original Reference and
> Flash diskettes for the NCR 3450 series system? I don't have a lot of faith
> that NCR can provide, and their web site downloads are USELESS without the
> original to work from!
i havent played around with my NCR MCA machine yet, so i dont know the fun. i
know most of the 95xx IBM PS/2 machines had an IML partition accessed during
a warm boot by pressing ctrl-alt-insert. have you tried that to see if it
would work?
Hi all,
As promised, I have posted some pics of a recent retrieval of a Vax 6000
cluster at
http://www.stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au/vax/
if anyone is interested. I will add more stuff as I get time.
Cheers
Geoff Roberts
Computer Systems Manager
Saint Mark's College
Port Pirie, South Australia.
Email: geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au
netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au
ICQ #: 1970476
Work Phone: 61-8-8633-8834 (1100-1800 Mon-Thurs)
Hi, I have a DEC VAX II System. 2 separate large (2' X 4') racks 1 with a
CPU and Power supply and the other only power supply cables etc. $40 anyone
interested? In L.A. Area, <Torrance, CA> Owner is going to scrap if no one
interested.
-----Original Message-----
From: KENNETH S HALEY <haleyk(a)okstate.edu>
>
>As a finale, self-replicating CA structures were invented by a guy in a
>LANL working group (see 'artifical life') with an Apple.
>
Wrong! Christopher Langton (who organised the first Artificial Life
Conference, September, 1987, Los Alamos National Laboratory) invented a
simple example of a self-replicating structure for a cellular automata
system based not too loosely upon the work of E. F. Codd. The reference
is a book entitled Celluar Automata. The work of von Neumann is collected
in a volume by Arthur Burks entitled Essays on Cellular Automata.
Codd's CA has eight states and the neighborhood function of von Neumann.
It has the curious characteristic of providing a model of brain cell
function, i.e. neurons.
William R. Buckley
A friend of mine has rescued the following equipment. (I don't know HP
stuff, so I'll give a general description and some numbers.)
Two big, _heavy_ boxes about the size of 2-drawer filing cabinets:
Box 1 contains modules marked-
HP 9000/300
HP 9000/300
HP 98720A
Box 2 contains modules marked-
HP 7958B
HP 9000/300
HP 98720A
There is also a large RGB monitor, HP #98751A, at least two (HPIB, so
I'm told by an HP-head) keyboards and mice, video cables, etc.
He offered it to me but I have no use for it. It's big, bulky, and
heavy, so if you're interested in it, you'll have to arrange for
transportation from Lincoln, Nebraska. A few bucks thrown in his
direction for dragging the stuff home from the brink of destruction
wouldn't be out of line either - maybe $50 or $100 if the stuff is worth
anything to you. If you want any/all of this stuff, let me know by
Wednesday, because I'm sure he'll be tired of dragging it around in his
van by then. He'll probably have used up the $50-100 in extra gas!
-Bill Richman (bill_r(a)inetnebr.com)
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r - Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer
Simulator, Fun with Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities.
On Sat, 24 Jul 1999 19:20:56 +0100 (BST) Tony Duell
<ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Other keywords to look for would be 'chording keyboard' or 'Microwriter'.
[ ... ]
> I got a Microwriter Agenda (a later model) at a radio rally, and have
> played with a it a bit.
An AgendA isn't really a later version of a Microwriter. The Microwriter
is just an input device, to be attached to any normal computer/WP. It's
about the size of a paperback book. An AgendA is a personal organiser
(akin to a Psion) which happens to have a Microwriter-style set of buttons
as well as conventional keys. Well, if you call an "A B C D ..." layout
"conventional". It's actually smaller than a Microwriter keypad, about 2/3
the size, and is landscape-layout rather than portrait.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
Ok... I've been ping-ponged between NCR tech support and their IPP
(publications) dept. so many times today, I'm beginning to feel round,
small, and white!
Does ANYone have, or know where I can get, the original Reference and
Flash diskettes for the NCR 3450 series system? I don't have a lot of faith
that NCR can provide, and their web site downloads are USELESS without the
original to work from!
Anyone? Thanks in advance.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies
http://www.bluefeathertech.com
Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com
SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905)
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
In a message dated 7/26/99 12:02:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
ware(a)xtal.pharm.nwu.edu writes:
> The moving companies that I have contacted to obtain estimates have said
> that the computer equipment is no problem - "just box it up". It sounds
> easy enough, but I don't know what the reaction will be to 150-pound boxes
Heavy boxes and or crates are no problem to movers, just let them know of the
weights so they can bring the right equipment to move them. Racks will
usually require a forklift or a loading dock on both ends of the move. Use
heavy doubleweight cardboard for 150 pound boxes.
> (or crates) that contain a single item. I'm planning to remove the front
> panels from the lights-and-switches equipped minis for transport and may
> remove boards and/or PSUs to lighten individual machines if necessary.
> Does anyone have other suggestions for dealing with unwieldy items such as
> rack-mountable equipment and workstation monitors in a long-distance move?
Consider a company that specializes in moving computer equipment. They use
"air ride" trailers that are more shock absorbent and their drivers are
trained in computer friendly driving. I have been able to ship equipment in
racks with just a blanket thrown over it with these specialty movers.
Request an "air ride trailer" anyway. Use padding and cardboard to protect
front panels. Park all hard drives, check their mounting bolts and check
their slide mounting bolts to the frame. It is especially important to check
the rack mounting bolts and screws. We lost 30% of an Amdahl drive array when
the drives shook loose of the frames due to a rough stretch of Interstate
I-5. It tripped their shockwatches. This is where an "air ride " trailer
would have been valuable.
Two complete layers of large bubble wrap is sufficient for heavy plastic
printers and terminals (i.e., TI 810s, Wyse 50s, etc.) when contained in a
box. If you have a lot to ship consider buying a large roll of bubble wrap at
a commercial packing supplier. I get a 48 inch wide roll of large bubble
(about 5 feet in diameter) for $80 from a supplier of discount cardboard box
supplier. I like the stuff that is perforated every 12 inches if they have it
in stock. Put a stick through the core and hang it from the ceiling so it
unrolls easy.
If you just rent space in a trailer sit down with a pad of graph paper to
sketch out your layout in advance. Measure all the racks, boxes and pieces so
you can fit them on the floor of the trailer. Some people like to cut out the
pieces to make the easier to rearrange. Make note of top-heavy racks. These
will be need to be lashed to the side walls of the trailer. After rolling in
any equipment on wheels, lower the adjustable levelers so they won't roll.
Protect with cardboard and tie each to the walls. If you use commercial
movers they will do all of this. You do need to tell them about top-heavy
racks.
Consider packing the workstation monitors upside down in a box with large
bubble. Cut a collar of bubble wrap to fill the space between the base and
the monitor in any case. If you have several consider packing them in a
cardboard Gaylord. This is a heavy cardboard box the size of a pallet,
approximately 40" X 42" X 4' to 6' height. These are usually available from
the same place I get bubble wrap. Put the box on a pallet before you pack it.
Strap it to the pallet after you fill it.
Remember Force = Mass X Acceleration. Also that Mass wants to travel in a
straight line. Both of these are germane to packing a trailer.
Good luck
Paxton
Now, cellular automata is my field. John von Neumann invented cellular
automata at the suggestion of Stanislav Ulam, when the two worked at the
Los Alamos National Laboratories in the 1940's. See von Neumann's work,
The Theory of Self-Reproducing Automata, and the book by Arthur Burks,
Cellular Automata.
John Horton Conway invented life as an alternative example of von Neumann's
work. There is also the cellular automata invented by E. F. Codd. The
game of life was first described in the October 1970 issue of Scientific
American.
William R. Buckley
-----Original Message-----
From: Hans B Pufal <hansp(a)digiweb.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, July 25, 1999 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: Conway's "Game of Life" ... when invented?
>ss(a)allegro.com wrote:
>
>> I was wondering if anyone knows when John Conway invented "life". The
>> best I've found on the web is "1960s".
>>
>> But...I just saw a movie, "Ocean's Eleven" (starring Frank Sinatra and
the
>> rest of the Rat Pack) ... and I'd swear that the start of the credits
looks a lot
>> like a run of life (i.e., several generations of display in the cellular
automata
>> game) at the beginning, which then segues into pseudo-Vegas neon signs.
>>
>> The movie is credited as being in 1960.
>
>>From <http://home.earthlink.net/~hilery/life/intro.htm#The Game of Life>
>:
>
>"In the early seventies, the only references to Conway's work were those
>originally given in Martin Gardner's "Mathematical Games" column in the
>October 1970 and February 1971 issues of Scientific American."
>
>I think that Conway developed the game just prior to its publication in
>Scientific American so seeing it in a film dated 1960 is unlikely. What
>you saw may have been a different cellular automatom, these were
>investigated if not discovered by von Neumann in the '50's.
>
>Regards,
>
>_---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___-
>Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue
><mailto:hansp@digiweb.com> <http://digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc>
Thanks to all who responded to the memory parity problems I was having on
the 2100. I have gotten further...I'll share the info in case anyone else
runs across this... basically all memory needs to be cleared. Note - this
applies to the 2100's, not the 21MX's.
Take off the front panel cover by removing the 4 allen head screws. Turn on
the power, and select the M register. Press clear display, then hit memory
display and clear display again (ie. set location 0 to 0) <grin>. On the
lower left of the front panel board is a switch, move it right. Then move
the switch on the upper right of the front panel board right too. Finally
hit the INC M switch. This clears all 17 bits of all memory present in the
system (16 data + 1 parity bit). Move the two switches back left and button
her up. I believe the two switches are instruction lock and step lock IIRC.
Suddenly the memory test is working well now. I'm swapping 8k boards one at
a time to locate any bad ones.
Back on the 4070 punch..... The standard HP punch (I forget the model, 2785
or something comes to mind) used an 8 bit duplex register board. If the guy
I got this facit 4070 from really did use it on the HP at least, I wonder if
it was hooked up to the 8bit duplex board like the normal HP 2748B paper
tape reader was. Just a thought....
Thanks for all the help folks!
Jay West
Car boot sale (flea market) yesterday.
Someone wanted 80 pounds (about $125 US) for an Amstrad NC200 laptop. Manual is
copyright 1992, CE mark on case dated 1993, so not quite a classic, but...
Rather a nice machine - screen looked like about 80*8 (I didn't count) or 80*10
characters, all pixels addressable. Processor probably Z80 (*) - the manual
wasn't very informative, and the owner wouldn't let me dismantle it :-(
Has a strange custom spreadsheet, a word processor, a VT52 emulator and a port
of BBC BASIC in ROM, and 128K bytes of RAM.
Since the owner wouldn't take offers, I didn't buy it - L80 is far too high; I
would have offered L50 absolute max - can anybody tell me what I've missed, and
what sort of market price it has (I'd guess thrift store $10, Ebay $100 but I
don't know)
(Owner's daughter pointed out that another potential purchaser or two had looked
at it and said it was v. cheap. Since they lost interest as soon as I told them
it wasn't PC compatible, I didn't read too much into that. Heck, you can get a
386 laptop for L80 without difficulty...)
Philip.
(*) I finally found that the port of BBC BASIC includes a Z80 assembler instead
of the usual 6502. Thus my guess as to CPU. BASIC ran "FOR A=1 TO 10000:NEXT"
in 6.75 seconds as measured on the internal clock, so I'd guess at 4 MHz, but
that's just guesswork...
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Aye, I had the NeXT Cube and some other workstations on the list, as well a
whole list of proto-PDAs like the Newton MessagePad, Casio Zoomer, NCR 3125
PenPad, AT&T Eo, GridPad, but nuked 'em all since they're too new.
I love the NeXT Cube as much as the next techno freak, but once we start
down that road, suddenly we've got BeBoxes, 20th Anniversary Macintoshes,
Cassiopeia WinCE handhelds, Monorail PCs, the iMac, and pretty soon we're
buying "collectible" stuff new off the shelf at CompUSA.
About the newest thing on the list is the PS/2 80, and I had to think about
that for a while. I left it on, because it represents IBM's fall as the
dominant force in microcomputing.
Kai
-----Original Message-----
From: Zane H. Healy [mailto:healyzh@aracnet.com]
Sent: Friday, June 18, 1999 7:01 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: Top 150 Collectible Microcomputers
>Hey, this is a great idea. Thanks, Kai!
>
>I'd add the NeXT cube to the list. For sheer sex appeal, little can beat
>a black magnesium cube.
YES, I'd not noticed that NeXT Hardware was totally missing from this list.
Although as a Workstation that might be intended. However, I personally
thing that both because of asthetics, and NeXTstep that at a very minimum
the NeXT Cube should be listed! Personally I think the whole line should
have at least a one line mention!
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
I have just got back from a 680 mile round trip to collect a free Sun 3/110 along with various external drives and a monitor (which may be reepairable). I will post full details when I have got it all out of the car and found out exactly what it all is. I am also going to have to dive into my SunOS manuals to find out how to boot to single user mode and reset the root password as it has been forgotten by its prevoius owner.
Regards
Pete
