- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<What puzzles me is why the IMSAI folks decided to use a switching power <supply when the box and everything else already supported the needs of the <S-100 with the previously available and now quite inexpensive unregulated <supplies of yesteryear. One of the main benefits of the S-100 was that it It would hae to be regulates at Vreg(oncard)+3V to work. or every cards would ahve to have the regulators ripped off. Add to that +5V bus sag >from end to end... not a good thing. This is why most every other "decent" bus (STD, Multibus, Eurocard, Qbus, unibus...) were either physically short or used multiple supplies powering short segments. On a more serious vein, cost, availability and oh UL/CSA/TUV/<your favorite safety/electrical/communications standards agency here>. I should look at this hack to see how much damage there is... likely the idiots have a PC inside wiggling the lights and thats all. Allison

26 years, 11 months

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by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Several S-100 manufacturers who were still at it in the mid-80's had <regulated +5V on the S-100 backplane. Those who wanted to use their <older S-100 cards in such a machine just jumpered across the 7805's and <viola! More commonplace was the use of constant Voltage transformers or simple preregulation so the +8 really was +8 and not +12 when lightly loaded. Allison

26 years, 11 months

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by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

Eric wrote: >Tim wrote: >> According to what I read from the web page, there's a PC-clone switching >> power supply followed by a "boost" switching circuit to get back to >> +8 and +/- 16. That's not completely unreasonable, but it sounds a >> little bit fishy to me in the sketchiness of the details. >It sounds a *lot* fishy. Well, I wasn't going to say so, but indeed it does sound something like vaporware. > For the required current, it would be more >expensive to try to use a standard PC supply with custom step-up converters >on the outputs than to simply: > >1) Hack a stanard switcher > >2) Build a custom switcher > >3) Have one of the switcher manufacturers build a slightly customized model But a standard PC-clone switching supply is so common that they're almost free, so it may be the place to start. Again, I think we may be talking about vaporware, so perhaps a technical discussion about the way something should/shouldn't be done is silly when it'll never be done anyway. >I've been thinking about replacing the power supply in my IMSAI because >the transformer has shorted turns and is delaminating. I've been looking >at stuff from Vicor. Not cheap, but high quality and reliable. Certainly, there are many expensive high quality and reliable solutions to getting 8V at tens of amps and +/- 16V at a few amps. But I can't think of any really cheap solutions that are high quality and reliable. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 11 months

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by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I'm not sure that "jumpering across" the 7805 will be healthy for the 7805. >Of course, if the input doesn't drop below the output during shutdown this >may not be a concern. Maybe I was unclear on what I meant by "jumpering across": you put a wire between pin 1 and pin 3 of the regulator. With such a jumper, it's impossible for the input to drop below output at the regulator. Of course, you've got to remember to remove the jumper before putting the resulting card back into a system with unregulated power busses! Like I said, regulated S-100 power busses were done by several manufacturers in the early and mid-80's with great success. It's a non-issue. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 11 months

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Duplicate messages

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

It must be you, Pete -- no duplicates in my mailbox . . . Glen 0/0 In a message dated 8/17/99 3:23:21 PM EST, peter(a)joules.enterprise-plc.com writes: << Are others on th list receiving duplicte posts or is it just me. If it is general then is ot a problem with the list server or has everyone's mail client gone up the spout at the same time ;-) Regards Pete >>

26 years, 11 months

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by edick＠idcomm.com

What you say is true, but the cases you bring up are not the same. The teensy regulator providing power for a processor is designed with pretty solid knowledge of the behavior of the load. The + 8 Volt supply in an S-100 box is a completely different thing, with loads which vary widely from one application to another, and, for that matter from one day to another. If you reversed the bias on the little regulator on a processor, the current stored in the processor would be negligible. If you have a memory circuit on an S-100 card, you probably have forty small capacitors and half a dozen larger ones (e.g. 33 uF) which would be sourcing current to the 7805 regulator(s) while the input now sources current to the disk drives or whatever other low-impedance loads run from that supply. I'm with you about the use of switchers which save on energy and reduce waste from dissipation. However, the proposed "booster" hasn't been thought through yet. They're not very cost-effective, nor do they offer much power per buck. The problem with linear supplies is not their intolerance of high voltage inputs, but rather, my intolerance of their high temperature when operating at a high input/output ratio, as the regulator dissipates it all as heat. That's not likely to happen here, however. Dick -----Original Message----- From: jpero(a)cgocable.net <jpero(a)cgocable.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 4:50 PM Subject: Re: imsai 2 >> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:35:15 -0600 >> Reply-to: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu >> From: "Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com> >> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >> Subject: Re: imsai 2 >> X-To: <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > >> I'm not sure that "jumpering across" the 7805 will be healthy for the 7805. >> Of course, if the input doesn't drop below the output during shutdown this >> may not be a concern. However, if there's a significant off-board load on >> the input switching supply, and significant capacitance (bypass, for >> example) on the board, it's likely to cause problems. >> >> Dick > >Hi, > >Actually that is not harmful thing. In fact, nearly all peecees of >any brands and generic of any quality short out the 3.45V regulator >via input and output to get 5V by either a jumper or a low >resistance/high current capable FET in (automatic detection type like >GX4, SP3 and such by Asus for 486). I'm sure that is same story for >the split or single voltage supply modes for Pentium class boards. > >One thing about double PSUing from one to another voltages is bit too >much to me from reliablity and cost viewpoints. Feeding 5V and >12V direct to bus is assumed that designer upsize the conductors >enough to keep voltage drops low. > >THERE is decent PSUs that can be had in any voltages in multi outputs >from one box and still be switcher. I'm all for switchers for >efficieny and less heat output of quality built. > >Most linear regulators are happy on input voltages up to 30V BTW. > >Wizard

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by edick＠idcomm.com

I suspect that there's quite a little work to be done on the IMSAI product before the first fully functional one will be shipped. I've got standard switchers which would do the job, i.e. their outputs can be adjusted to provide the needed current, e.g. 8V at 25 Amps, +/-12 16 @ 5 & 3 amps, or maybe less. These weigh less than the transformer supplies on the half dozen or so S-100 frames I've got, and, when size and weight are viewed from the standpoint of handling, storage, and shipping costs, they may even cost less. However, unless one anticipates volumes in excess of 1% of annual PC sales, the cost will not be comparable with PC supplies. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 4:45 PM Subject: Re: imsai 2 >Tim wrote: >> According to what I read from the web page, there's a PC-clone switching >> power supply followed by a "boost" switching circuit to get back to >> +8 and +/- 16. That's not completely unreasonable, but it sounds a >> little bit fishy to me in the sketchiness of the details. > >It sounds a *lot* fishy. For the required current, it would be more >expensive to try to use a standard PC supply with custom step-up converters >on the outputs than to simply: > >1) Hack a stanard switcher > >2) Build a custom switcher > >3) Have one of the switcher manufacturers build a slightly customized model > >I've been thinking about replacing the power supply in my IMSAI because >the transformer has shorted turns and is delaminating. I've been looking >at stuff from Vicor. Not cheap, but high quality and reliable. >

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by edick＠idcomm.com

Well . . . freight cost alone might be justification for using switchers. Nevertheless, I don't see a use for the regulated supplies in connection with a bus which by definition uses on-board regulation. If the supply actually provides the specified voltages, that's a different situation. The typical S-100 box, IIRC, used lots of amperes, even for just one memory board, and generated lots of heat. The average, even BIG, PC supply is not beefy enough to support a typical S-100 box as I remember them. 8 of the 8K SRAM boards with 2102's . . . well, you figure it out! There were other ways to go, of course, but back in the day of the 22-slot backplane, that's what justified the backplane's size. Power for the entire remainder of the system was not that much. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey l Kaneko <jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 4:33 PM Subject: Re: imsai 2 > > >On Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:11:10 -0600 "Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com> >writes: > ><Stuff SNIPped> > >> What puzzles me is why the IMSAI folks decided to use a switching >> power supply when the box and everything else already supported the >needs >> of the S-100 with the previously available and now quite inexpensive >> unregulated supplies of yesteryear. > >Well, for a given wattage, switchers are smaller, lighter, and more >economical to produce. I imagine if they resorted to the old iron-core >transformers of yore, they would have had a difficult time finding >a supplier for them. > >When they did, the part would probly cost as much as the rest of the >materials put together. Makes perfect sense to me. > > >Jeff > > >___________________________________________________________________ >Get the Internet just the way you want it. >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

26 years, 11 months

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by edick＠idcomm.com

Though it's not consistent with my own bent, the "new" IMSAI offers a "safe" place in which to play with those extremely costly boards some folks have picked up from the eBay auctions. What puzzles me is why the IMSAI folks decided to use a switching power supply when the box and everything else already supported the needs of the S-100 with the previously available and now quite inexpensive unregulated supplies of yesteryear. One of the main benefits of the S-100 was that it had on-board regulation, so that if you didn't need a given supply, you didn't have to bring it on board and regulate it, dissipating power as you went. If the new box is capable of running the original boards, it must provide the raw 8 and +/- 16-volt supplies. Where's the benefit in having a switching regulator sitting in the back of the box? I suppose it creates a market for a power distribution module to put +5 and +/- 12 on each board which needs it rather than using the on-board regulators, but that opens another can of worms. What's the "right" way to distribute it without tampering with a historically correct board? Dick -----Original Message----- From: allisonp(a)world.std.com <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 1:44 PM Subject: Re: imsai 2 >> > >> >It wasn't F11 though it could be done. It was a LSI-1 and later the T11. >> >Also Alpha micro used the same chipset as LSI-11 do do the AM100. >> >> Neat...I sure wouldn't mind getting ahold of one of those. They're pretty >> rare, I'd guess, no? > >Likely rare as the company was not a big one and PDP-11 on s100 would be >rather unDEC in the software support. At best rt11 might have been doable >if all the device drivers were rewritten. I'd bet those that were sold >(the bulk of them) are in embedded systems. > >The alpha micros were pretty popular though not cheap and they may be more >common. > >Allison > >

26 years, 11 months

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Duplicate messages

by peter＠joules.enterprise-plc.com

Are others on th list receiving duplicte posts or is it just me. If it is general then is ot a problem with the list server or has everyone's mail client gone up the spout at the same time ;-) Regards Pete

26 years, 11 months

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Hacker tea (was Re: Late Nights and Caffeine)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Aug 17, 0:37, Derek Peschel wrote: > To keep this on topic... The RT-11 (or RSX-11?) installation program > determines whether your machine is using 50Hz or 60Hz power. If 50Hz, it > tells you to make a cup of tea (because the installation takes a long time). > If 60Hz, it tells you to make a cup of coffee. It's RSX-11. OB nitpick: On Aug 17, 0:35, Mike Ford wrote: > Tetly > Taylors of Harrowgate (non cheap UK import) Actually, Tetley, and Taylors of Harrogate. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 11 months

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Domain Ring card, what is it?

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I pulled this card out of a PC, it looks like some kind of LAN card but I've never seen one like it. Can anyone tell me more about it? It's a full length card that plugs into a 16 bit ISA slot. It has two large ICs on it. One is markled "APOLLO004329" "TC17GO42AT". The other says "L1A3015 015935-0001" "BICAT 1". One th eback is a connector about the same size as a DB-15 but it has a large contacts at each end and 5 regular size contacts in the center. The large contacts looks like the same ones that are used in the 13W3 cable for a Sun monitor. Joe

26 years, 11 months

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by edick＠idcomm.com

The question in my mind is whether there are enough sources of the required parts that the people willing to pay IMSAI's rather generous price will be able to see a clear path to somewhere. Where that might be is another question. I always appreciated the "look" of the IMSAI with its big paddle-switches as opposed to the little ones on the ALTAIR. However, if I were going to use a front panel again, I'd use neither type of switch, myself. I built a very flexible front panel at one time using pushbutton switches with an integral LED, which, conveniently enough, comfortably sat on a 14-pin wire-wrap socket. When you wanted to set a switch, you pressed the switch if it wasn't already set. When you wanted it cleared, in the event it was set, you'd press it to clear it. it was difficult to get confused about which LED was associated with which switch. Another switch promotes the data into a presettable counter bank for each byte of the addresses or data. It's easy to step sequentially through a block of address space or data values. If a guy wants a box like the one that was on "War Games" I guess he'll want this one, though. Dick -----Original Message----- From: allisonp(a)world.std.com <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 12:08 PM Subject: Re: imsai 2 >> I'm curious what will happen with the IMSAI in view of the lack of >> current-generation 8080's. Maybe they'll substitute an FPGA. Otherwise, of >> what use will it be? > >Assuming you mean that 8080s are not available...Lots of places still >sell them. I doubt they will need more than a handfull to satisfy any >likely orders. > >Allison > >

26 years, 11 months

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by edick＠idcomm.com

I'm not sure that "jumpering across" the 7805 will be healthy for the 7805. Of course, if the input doesn't drop below the output during shutdown this may not be a concern. However, if there's a significant off-board load on the input switching supply, and significant capacitance (bypass, for example) on the board, it's likely to cause problems. Dick -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com <CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 4:20 PM Subject: Re: imsai 2 >>What puzzles me is why the IMSAI folks decided to use a switching power >>supply when the box and everything else already supported the needs of the >>S-100 with the previously available and now quite inexpensive unregulated >>supplies of yesteryear. > >Probably an issue of economy, using PC-clone power supplies at about >$25 each vs using a custom-wound transformer at $200 or so a pop. > >> One of the main benefits of the S-100 was that it >>had on-board regulation, so that if you didn't need a given supply, you >>didn't have to bring it on board and regulate it, dissipating power as you >>went. If the new box is capable of running the original boards, it must >>provide the raw 8 and +/- 16-volt supplies. Where's the benefit in having a >>switching regulator sitting in the back of the box? I suppose it creates a >>market for a power distribution module to put +5 and +/- 12 on each board >>which needs it rather than using the on-board regulators, but that opens >>another can of worms. What's the "right" way to distribute it without >>tampering with a historically correct board? > >According to what I read from the web page, there's a PC-clone switching >power supply followed by a "boost" switching circuit to get back to >+8 and +/- 16. That's not completely unreasonable, but it sounds a >little bit fishy to me in the sketchiness of the details. > >Several S-100 manufacturers who were still at it in the mid-80's had >regulated +5V on the S-100 backplane. Those who wanted to use their >older S-100 cards in such a machine just jumpered across the 7805's and >viola! > >-- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

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Comprehensive Commodore History

by ckaiser＠oa.ptloma.edu

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 963 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990529/082036c2/at…

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IBM 5100 (serial no. search)

by wsmith＠gj.com

Robert Uiterwyk <uiterwyk(a)eisers.com> 08/16 11:53 AM wrote: >I am desperately looking to fill the last hole in my "machines that I have >worked with" museum. > >An IBM 5100 - This machine used two 1/4 inch tape drives and had either >Basic or APL (or both) in ROM. Inbtroduced in 1975 by IBM. I am seeking assistance in estimating the total production of IBM 5100s. I believe this can be done by collecting a sufficiently large sample of serial numbers and related information. Hopefully, I will be able to divine the numbering convention and thereby come up with a reasonable estimate of total production. This, of course, assumes that the units were serially numbered. Therefore, I am looking following information for 5100 units: 1. Model (BASIC only, APL only or APL/BASIC) 2. Manufacture date (if known) 3. Serial number Also, I would like to receive item 2 and 3 information of 5106 tape drive units. Thanks, all. ! ! !

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Stan Veit's web site

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

I don't know if you all know about this already but its a pretty nice site. http://www.pc-history.org/ It's Stan Veit's, who by the way will be speaking at VCF 3.0. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out. Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 05/25/99]

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by edick＠idcomm.com

In 1964, Olin-Mathieson acquired Winchester. For years after that, the gun ads in the papers would advertise their "pre-1964" shotguns, rifles, etc. at prices well above those of the "new" ones. The Olin-Mathieson folks did take tooling out of mothballs and produce models which had been discontinued, but folks seemed to prefer the "old" and original ones. I'm curious what will happen with the IMSAI in view of the lack of current-generation 8080's. Maybe they'll substitute an FPGA. Otherwise, of what use will it be? Dick -----Original Message----- From: William Donzelli <aw288(a)osfn.org> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 9:59 AM Subject: Re: imsai 2 >> I couldn't help but wonder: Will the fact that you can buy a new one for >> $995.00 finally curb the pricing on places like ebay for the vintage ones do >> you think? > >No, not at all. People will pay for the history. > >Look at the old Western Electric 300B audio tube (valve). These things >skyrocketted to several hundred dollars each. A few years ago, Westrex >decided to tool up and make them again. They produced 300Bs that are >_identical_ to the old ones. What did the price of the old ones do? Well, >not much. A little bump, thats it. > >William Donzelli >aw288(a)osfn.org

26 years, 11 months

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late nights and caffeine

by zmerch＠30below.com

Rumor has it that Max Eskin may have mentioned these words: >On Mon, 16 Aug 1999, Merle K. Peirce wrote: >>I fear if I stopped drinking tea, I would vitiate the economies of Ceylon >>and India. > >Oh, you drink _real_ tea, no Lipton? I'm slowly trying to stop myself from >using that trash, but it's so darn _convenient_! Well, if you call drowning a haybale in boiling water 'convenient' -- ;-) Personally, give me a nice cup of good, strong, Earl Grey... with just a touch of _dark brown_ sugar... it gets rid of the acid-y taste without adding nearly so much of a sweet flavor. Just don't let the water get *cold* with the tea-bag still in - it will get a lot more bitter. Haven't tested 'em all, but Bigelow is my preferred brand. And now back to our regularly scheduled listserv. :-) "Merch" -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.

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check it out

by foxvideo＠wincom.net

>To: avfreelancers(a)topica.com >From: Keith Kay <cowboyarts(a)aol.com> >Subject: check it out >Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:41:19 -0700 >Reply-To: avfreelancers(a)topica.com >X-Loop: 10002755 > >You old pros probably have been here but word of this site just reached >Grapeland via Hong Kong. >Cheers, Keith Kay > > >This one came to me via a friend, and I thought it was a joke, but it's >really amazing. The note below tells it all. Try it! > >Barry > > From: David Thurston <thurston(a)loxinfo.co.th> > To: Saul Lockhart <100426.1233(a)compuserve.com> > Subject: new camera > Date: Friday, July 30, 1999 8:28 AM > >I just found an unbelievable new web site that you must check > out. Misrocoft is testing a new technology that allows you to take a >picture >through your present computer. I know, it shouldn't be possible,but they > have done it.I went to the web site and did it my self and was absolutely >amazed at the accuracy of the photo. > > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/3072/camera1.html >>> >>> > >-- >This footer has been added by the list owner: > >You can unsubscribe from this list at any time by sending a blank message to >avfreelancers-unsubscribe(a)topica.com >You must be using the email address with which you subscribed. > >________________________________________________________________________ >Start an Email List For Free at Topica. http://www.topica.com/register > > > Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada email foxvideo(a)wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo

26 years, 11 months

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Article on old software programs (for IBM, Apple, Borland, etc)

by gregorym＠cadvision.com

-----Original Message----- From: JAMES WEBSTER <jwebste3(a)bellsouth.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, August 16, 1999 6:30 PM Subject: Re: Article on old software programs (for IBM, Apple, Borland, etc) >Sellam Ismail wrote: >> >> On Mon, 16 Aug 1999, JAMES WEBSTER wrote: >> >> > To put it kindly, Victoria Shannon sounds like she is full of it. >> > >> > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-08/16/026l-081699-idx.html >> >> Full of what, and in what way? >> > >Read about the last 2 paragraphs. >Jim Webster > I read the whole article, and I don't see anything too objectionable there. No major factual errors, a balanced point of view ... what exactly do you object to? Mark.

26 years, 11 months

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Murphy's law is in full effect...

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> wrote: > > DS8641N > > > > There is no vendor ID, just a little mark like 2 lightning bolts in > paralell > > (Like a jagged = sign). So, the questions now are... > > > > 1. What's this chip, and what does it do? > > 2. Can I replace it, or am I just screwed? > > National Semiconductor Quad Unified Bus Transceiver. Commonly used > as a Unibus transceiver. Still in production. National lists budgetary > pricing for quantity 1K at $1.15, which means you'll probably pay less > than $4 for a single. > > http://www.national.com/pf/DS/DS8641.html > > I was surprised to find that DigiKey apparently does not stock it. I have several tubes of them. Make offer. -ethan === Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

26 years, 11 months

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RT-11 ARGH!

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Is a RT-11 Media Kit on TK-50, that was built under V5.4 using some command >which currently escapes me, bootable? If it was built with MUB.COM, yes, it is bootable. > I just realized that apparently V5.3 >doesn't support TK50's. Right, it doesn't. > BLEEP!!!! > I'd just try it, but don't want to have to type in the bootstrap if it > isn't. Rather spend the time trying to figure out the best sequence of > hoops to jump through if it isn't! BEEEEEEEEEEEEP! Just when I was > starting to make some serious progress at getting my /73 put back together. > BLEEP! I have to admit that I'm a bit unclear on what the problem is that you're trying to solve, much less what you're trying to do to overcome the difficulties that you're throwing in your own path :-). -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 11 months

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RT-11 ARGH!

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> > If it was built with MUB.COM, yes, it is bootable. >> Thank Goodness! > >Jerome Fine replies: > >Is that just the requirement to copy certain files onto the TK50 >tape in a certain order? No, it also needs the appropriate boot block written to tape (by, for example, the $Ini/Que/Vol/File:Bin:MBOOT.BOT Kit: line in MUB.COM). -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 11 months

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New IMSAI available in October

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: Todd Fischer announced the IMSAI 8080 Series Two today. See http://www.imsai.net Looks interesting. Expensive for no cards, but interesting. Rich ----------------------------------- [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ <---------------------------- reply separator

26 years, 11 months

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Is ccauction@nut.net dead?

by ss＠allegro.com

Hi, My last two attempts to email ccauction(a)nut.net have apparently failed because "nut.net" can't be found. Well, to be more exact, the MX record for nut.net doesn't seem to exist. nslookup nut.net gives: Non-authoritative answer: Name: nut.net Address: 209.114.81.2 But, nslookup -type=MX nut.net gives: Server: bart Address: 0.0.0.0 (timeout) A "whois" shows that nut.net's record was updated yesterday.

26 years, 11 months

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Williams Tube memory, Selectron question, and Charactron

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

Eric Smith wrote: >William Donzelli <aw288(a)osfn.org> wrote: >> The lights ("blinkenlights") on some early machines (and even a few not >> so early machines) were tiny tubes, as well. A bit more simple than a CRT... > >Yes, but those weren't particularly "bizarre". They were just common >incandescent bulbs. I've seen scientific and computer equipment from the 60's and 70's using a variety of "tubes" as indicator devices, everything from simple neon bulbs to decatron counters and storage CRT's. One might argue that a neon bulb or a decatron isn't properly a "tube" (they certainly aren't "valves" because they don't have a control grid like a triode), but they are non-linear devices that are capable of storing (and displaying) state information and performing simple logic functions. Question for the UKer's: is a tube rectifier (no control grid, just an anode and a cathode) called a "valve"? Is a voltage regulator tube (like the venerable OA2) called a "valve"? -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 11 months

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Article on old software programs (for IBM, Apple, Borland, etc)

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 8/16/99 3:34:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bill(a)chipware.com writes: > "Software Program" > > AAARRRGGG!!! > > Why don't we get in the automobile car and drive ride to the > financial institution bank. There we can get some cash currency > from the ATM machine. I may have to transfer send some money funds > to my IRA account. After that we can go to the movie theater cinema > and purchase buy some admission tickets. After we see the movie > production, we can go to a restaurant bistro and eat consume some > dinner food. We could get a nice container bottle of wine beverage. > > Sorry to rant, but I'm in a bad mood. hey, at least it was good for a laugh... D.B. Young Team OS/2 -->this message printed on recycled disk space visit the computers of yesteryear at: http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm

26 years, 11 months

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IBM 5100

by uiterwyk＠eisers.com

I am desperately looking to fill the last hole in my "machines that I have worked with" museum. An IBM 5100 - This machine used two 1/4 inch tape drives and had either Basic or APL (or both) in ROM. Inbtroduced in 1975 by IBM. Will trade old early hobbyist PC stuff (SWTP 6800, SOL-20, Osborne OCC-1) or pay money. Anyone out there willing to help me relive my youth? Robert Uiterwyk uiterwyk (at) eisers (dot) com

26 years, 11 months

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Williams Tube memory, Selectron question, and Charactron

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> Question for the UKer's: is a tube rectifier (no control grid, just an >> anode and a cathode) called a "valve"? > Have you heard of a check valve? I've also heard of a won't gate and have a copy here of the data sheet for a write-only-memory :-). -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 11 months

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Williams Tube memory, Selectron question, and Charactron

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I think we'd probably call an OA2 a 'valve' as well, although talking <about 'stabiliser tubes' or 'cold cathode tubes' seems to be common usage <in UK books as well (as is 'stabiliser valves' and 'cold cathode valves'). < <We certainly talk about 'counting tubes' when refering to dekatrons, <trochatrons, etc. Never seen them called 'counting valves'. And CRTs are <certainly 'tubes' over here. Lest we for get the 2d21 tyratron and the larger cousins. Cold cathode triodes mostly replaced with SCRs. Allison

26 years, 11 months

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Williams Tube memory, Selectron question, and Charactron

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<The lights ("blinkenlights") on some early machines (and even a few not <so early machines) were tiny tubes, as well. A bit more simple than a CRT.. there was one variation that use a dual tube (triodes) in a FF config so that you could store a bit with an indicator. They coated one plate with phosphor so it was visible and tada, inherent display. A few years back (1972) I used a few VF 7segment tubes (one 7segment per tube) all anodes connecteed together made them a low mu triode and I built a FF using them as a gag. Plate voltage was 36-45V. Allison

26 years, 11 months

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Drivers needed

by fauradon＠mn.mediaone.net

Hi, I just acquired a NIC for MAC, it's an "Assante MacCom+ II E" etheernet card. What do I need to connect the mac to the ethernet network. I got the card without doc or installation program. Any help would be great. The MAC is a IIvx running 7.1 I'd like to have TCP/IP or any other way to talk to the *indows network. Thanks Francois

26 years, 11 months

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Beagle Bag (was Re: check it out)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>>You old pros probably have been here but word of this site just reached >>Grapeland via Hong Kong. > > Though I really do have to wonder how many people would actually fall for >the idea that their monitor can go both ways... On the old "Beagle Bag" collection for the Apple ][, there were some impressively done programs in "Magic Pack". In one of them, you are directed to hold a playing card up to the screen, type "RUN", and the computer scanned the card and told you what type it was. In another, called "Plenty Questions" (like 20 Questions), the computer asks a bunch of Yes/No questions which you answer and are typed in. And the computer could guess it right 100% of the time. All **assuming** that a sufficiently trained person was sitting at the computer keyboard. For the card scanner, you would type "3CN" (as the letters "RUN" appeared on the screen) to indicate that, say, a 3 of Clubs was being held up to the screen. For "Plenty Questions", you get to type one letter of the object in response to each Y/N question. Of course, "Magic Pack" depended on a good amount of showmanship on the part of the computer's owner as he dupes his friends into believing the mystical powers that his lowly Apple ][ has acquired. And not doing the tricks so often that the audience figures out what's going on! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 11 months

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check it out

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Since the screen is in fact being scanned by the electron beam in the <monitor, the light that passes through the transparency and to the <photodetector depends on the darkness of a spot on said transparency <corresponding to where the electron beam is. As does the output of the <photodetector. Digitize that, synchronised to the scanning, and you have <a way to scan images. Flying spot scanner. Go back about 25-30 years and you could get one for test patterns for TV service, B&K was one vendor here in the us. The patterns were 35MM slides if memory serves. The box was a small CRT that was scanned at fixed bright intensity, a slide holder, lens and a phototube to translate the light to analog image stream. The same scheme would work >from a reflected image. Using modern technology if you scanned the field to be viewed with a laser while viewing that with a photodiode with a lens focused to the resulting output could then be synched and broadcast or digitized. FYI this is the basic barcode scanner. The site is still a gag! Allison

26 years, 11 months

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Pet 8096 for trade in UK

by mark_k＠iname.com

Hi, Moving to a smaller house forces me to get rid of my Pet 8096. This computer could do with a clean but worked fine the last time I tested it. Contact me if you may be interested in this. It needs to be picked up from Wiltshire, England. Regards, -- Mark

26 years, 11 months

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Old (relatively) Tandy 1000 w/bits & pieces (fwd)

by siconic＠jasmine.psyber.com

Here's someone with a Tandy 1000 they want to get rid of, located in the upper west side of Manhattan (New York)(. Please respoond to the original sender. Reply-to: Ollco(a)aol.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 12:07:00 EDT From: Ollco(a)aol.com To: vcf(a)vintage.org Subject: Old (relatively) Tandy 1000 w/bits & pieces We have an old computer that may have value other than holding down the end of the table. It's a Tandy 1000 w/cma monitor, manuals, etc. Lots of software Still working w/all of 256 K ram and 2 Epson printers, one a wide carriage for spread sheets. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks, Steve & Marci Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)verio.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Puttin' the smack down on the man! Coming this October 2-3: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details [Last web site update: 05/25/99]

26 years, 11 months

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(I'm ba-ack...) Problems with DW11-B...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Okay, situation as follows. I finally cleared some time to play with my toys again... The idea is, I have an 11/83, an RL02, and plenty of RAM. It runs 2.9BSD at the moment. I also have a DZ11 clone by Aziv (or something like that) in there, it works too. I got my hands on a RSTS 8 RL02 SAVRES tape (Found it in my scratch magtape pile! Can't believe I didn't see this before!) and wanna play with RSTS instead of 2.9BSD. So, the idea was, I have a tape drive and UNIBUS TS-type controller that both work, and a BA11-K. (It was the one on the 11/44, which, sadly, has died of mysterious marginality. It catches random bus errors and starts only about 1/4 of the time. Don't worry, I didn't pitch it - I plan on debugging it later.) Anyway, I wanted to hang the DW11-B between the 2 boxes (The 83 and the BA11), then use the TS tape and drive to back up BSD to a tape, and then try restoring this RSTS tape. If the RSTS tape dies then, all I have to do is get a minimal UNIX back on the RL02 and restore my tape. Too bad UNIX doesn't make self-booting backup tapes like VMS does... (Speaking of which, did any other OS do this?) Anyway, the problem is, when the DW11-B is installed in the 83,. the memory check diagnostic fails at address 0, and the MAP option on the crash screen only sees the addresses on the CPU card (So the DW11 is clobbering the bus.) Questions are: 1. Has anyone done this before? 2. Are DW11-Bs incompatible with Q22 backplanes? 3. Is there some obvious screw I'm missing? I'm using the quad-height end in the Qbus end, and the dual-height end in the UNIBUS end. I assume if I had them backwards, I'd get smoke... Also, the fuse in the dual-height end is good, I checked it. Help would be much appreciated! -------

26 years, 11 months

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check it out

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< How did the old light-pens or the light-gun with Atari 8-bits work ? <Weren't they related to this sensitivity of the CRT ? Light pens were fast photo diode that did coincidence detection with a scan line that was bright. The logic in the video board(or chip) would map the "hit" to a scan line address... the rest was programming in the form of what was at that spot and was it a "button". Very simple device save for there were timing delays to be compensated for. Allison

26 years, 11 months

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Williams Tube memory, Selectron question, and Charactron

by sms＠antinode.org

From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com) > Question for the UKer's: is a tube rectifier (no control grid, just an > anode and a cathode) called a "valve"? Have you heard of a check valve? > Is a voltage regulator tube (like the venerable OA2) called a "valve"? No doubt it's _called_ one (where electron tubes are called valves). I can cite several worse misnomers in popular use. On the subject of unusual display devices, as I recall, the Univac 422, a training computer (transistors, 512 15-bit words of core memory, with paper tape and (modified) Remington Rand typewriter for I/O) from the 1960's, used blue-green vacuum fluorescent indicators on its front panel, to display register contents. Not digital displays in the modern sense, they were just blue-green lamps. I assume that they were chosen for their ability to be controlled by transistors which were unable to cope with the voltages of neon glow lamps or the current of incandescent lamps. I never saw them on anything else. I don't doubt that they had better long-term reliability than the SCR-driven incandescent lamps in the console display of the IBM 1130 CPU. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda (+1) 651-645-9249 (voice, home) 1630 Marshall Avenue #8 (+1) 612-754-2636 (voice, work) Saint Paul MN 55104-6225 (+1) 612-754-6302 (facsimile, work) sms(a)antinode.org sms(a)provis.com (work)

26 years, 11 months

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check it out

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I doubt very much if most CRTs are at all light-sensitive. You kidding? Those phosphors are quite sensitive to light at the right wavelength. Everyone forgets a plumbicon (and predecessors) used a phosphor coated target that the image impinged on and then was scanned with a electron beam with the incident current sensed using an internal collector grid. Maybe you had to work with the old mono camaras with a tube in it rather than a CCD. Allison

26 years, 11 months

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RT-11 DU configuration

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Now that I've got it back running V5.4 I noticed something interesting, >under V5.3 when you do a 'SHOW DEV' in the section for DU it lists the how >DU0: through DU7: are configured. This is very nice when you've got >partitions ranging across a couple disks. However, this feature seems to >be missing under V5.4, is there any way to get this information, or do I >simply need to write it down? Do a "SHOW DEV:DU" and you'll see it - for example, on my 5.7 system: .show dev:du Device Status CSR Vector(s) ------ ------ --- --------- DU Resident 172150 154 150 144 140 DU0: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 0, PART = 0 DU1: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 1, PART = 0 DU2: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 2, PART = 0 DU3: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 3, PART = 0 DU4: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 4, PART = 0 DU5: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 5, PART = 0 DU6: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 6, PART = 0 DU7: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 7, PART = 0 D10: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 8, PART = 0 D11: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 9, PART = 0 D12: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 10, PART = 0 D13: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 11, PART = 0 D14: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 12, PART = 0 D15: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 13, PART = 0 D16: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 14, PART = 0 D17: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 15, PART = 0 D20: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 16, PART = 0 D21: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 17, PART = 0 D22: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 18, PART = 0 D23: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 19, PART = 0 D24: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 20, PART = 0 D25: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 21, PART = 0 D26: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 22, PART = 0 D27: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 23, PART = 0 D30: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 3, PART = 0 D31: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 3, PART = 1 D32: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 3, PART = 2 D33: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 3, PART = 3 D34: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 3, PART = 4 D35: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 3, PART = 5 D36: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 3, PART = 6 D37: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 3, PART = 7 D40: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 4, PART = 0 D41: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 4, PART = 1 D42: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 4, PART = 2 D43: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 4, PART = 3 D44: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 4, PART = 4 D45: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 4, PART = 5 D46: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 4, PART = 6 D47: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 4, PART = 9 D50: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 4, PART = 8 D51: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 4, PART = 9 D52: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 4, PART = 10 D53: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 43, PART = 0 D54: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 44, PART = 0 D55: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 45, PART = 0 D56: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 46, PART = 0 D57: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 47, PART = 0 D60: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 4, PART = 0 D61: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 5, PART = 0 D62: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 6, PART = 0 D63: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 7, PART = 0 D64: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 8, PART = 0 D65: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 9, PART = 0 D66: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 10, PART = 0 D67: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 11, PART = 0 D70: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 4, PART = 1 D71: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 5, PART = 1 D72: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 6, PART = 1 D73: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 7, PART = 1 D74: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 8, PART = 1 D75: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 9, PART = 1 D76: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 10, PART = 1 D77: is set PORT = 0, UNIT = 11, PART = 1 Another thing that helps with keeping tracks of large numbers of partitions is to assign descriptive Volume ID and owner fields to the partitions. For example: .init ld4:/volu LD4:/Initialize; Are you sure? Y Volume ID? junk Owner? me .dir/vol ld4: Volume ID: junk Owner : me 0 Files, 0 Blocks 1986 Free blocks Presumably, you'll find something more useful than "junk" and "me" to fill the fields in with :-) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 11 months

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DEC Pro Technical Manual

by mbg＠world.std.com

26 years, 11 months

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Drivers needed

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 8/15/99 12:42:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, fauradon(a)mn.mediaone.net writes: > Hi, > I just acquired a NIC for MAC, it's an "Assante MacCom+ II E" etheernet > card. What do I need to connect the mac to the ethernet network. I got the > card without doc or installation program. Any help would be great. > The MAC is a IIvx running 7.1 > I'd like to have TCP/IP or any other way to talk to the *indows network. > Thanks > Francois the only way i know is you have to have a machine running win nt since it can speak appletalk from the mac. D.B. Young Team OS/2 -->this message printed on recycled disk space visit the computers of yesteryear at: http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm

26 years, 11 months

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RT-11 DU configuration

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

OK, having chanted the proper incantations, and performed the various rites in the correct sequence I now have my RT-11 system as close to being back together with all the various programs as I'm going to, until I get a chance to redo the Macro-11 exercises I lost. Actually I've got a little more than I had as I added a few games :^) Now that I've got it back running V5.4 I noticed something interesting, under V5.3 when you do a 'SHOW DEV' in the section for DU it lists the how DU0: through DU7: are configured. This is very nice when you've got partitions ranging across a couple disks. However, this feature seems to be missing under V5.4, is there any way to get this information, or do I simply need to write it down? Now that I've got two "Backup" Hard Drives made, and most of the stuff backed up on a RL02, I've got to get a "Working" Hard Drive built so I can get back to the project of trying to get TCP/IP configured :^) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

26 years, 11 months

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DEC Pro Technical Manual

by djenner＠halcyon.com

I picked up a Professional 300 Series "Technical Manual" (EK-PC350-TM-001) yesterday that covers just the Pro 350. It is a voluminous tome with lots of details about the Pro hardware. Is there a comparable volume for the Pro 380? Does anyone have one or has anyone ever seen one? Thanks, Dave

26 years, 11 months

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Ferguson BIG-BOARD mod's

by edick＠idcomm.com

Some weeks back, Allison Parent wrote about some mods for the AMPRO LITTLE BOARD-I to improve performance. These were interesting, but now I'm looking for published mod's for the Ferguson BIG-BOARD, which was quite popular, but had only Single-Density floppy support via a WD 1771 and which used a standard (2.5 MHz) Z-80. I'm interested in finding out whether there are any published modifications, supported with code, to enhance this board's speed, and to upgrade its FDC to a 179x type using both FM and MFM. I've got aboug half a dozen of these boards and want to know that there's a way to fix them up before I pass them on to interested parties. Does anyone know of a reliable source of such material? Dick

26 years, 11 months

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Williams Tube memory, Selectron question, and Charactron

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<deflection coils to steer the electrons through a character stencil (like <shadow mask), and a second set of deflection coils to steer the electrons <to the desired character location on the screen. If memory serves, this <type of display was used on Whirlwind. Presumably it was more economical <than using a standard XY oscilliscope with either a hardware vector charact <generator or software. It was also used in some terminals and Xerox high speed eletrophotograpic printers. The later being basically a Xerox copier with a charactron as the image source. Allison

26 years, 11 months

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5250 Emulator?

by foxvideo＠wincom.net

There is a pc board in my collection labled "5250 Emulator". Can anyone tell me anything about this? Thanks Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada email foxvideo(a)wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo

26 years, 11 months

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Bell & Howell Micromodule 85 : info wanted

by ss＠allegro.com

Hi, I picked up a Bell & Howell "micromodule 85", which is a single board microprocessor trainer for the Intel 8085. But...I have no docs for it, and can't find any on the web. BTW, it's got the worst keypad I've seen...here's an ASCII picture: 4 5 8 C W R 3 6 9 D P D 2 7 A E L S 1 0 B F X B -------------- ------ white keys red keys (may look better with fixed font) Yes, the "1", "2", "3", "4", "5" indeed climbs up and then turns to the right. Extremely weird! It powers up, at least :) thanks, Stan Sieler sieler(a)allegro.com

26 years, 11 months

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