>One of the surplus stores in my area just got in a load of 5-1/4 form factor
>hard drives. They look just like the ones my PDP-11/73's use (RD51 or 52,
>can't recall). I believe my controller is a RQDX2, not a RQDX3. My drives
>are 30mb.
If they're for use with a RQDX2 or 3, they'd better be MFM (ST-506)
interface drives, not ESDI drives! The connectors are the same, but
the signals are quite different.
>I was wondering, is there an easy way (short of looking up the model
>numbers) to visually determine if any of the drives are ESDI and might work
>with my 11/73?
Most any ST506 drive can be pressed into use with a RQDX1/2/3, with
an appropriate low-level format (via XXDP's ZRQB?? or ZRQC?? formatter).
The RD52 is a Quantum Q540 or an Atasi AT3046. Capacity around 30 Mbytes.
There was also a CDC drive used, I'm not sure what the model number was.
The RD53 is a Micropolis 1325 (early ones) or 1335 (later ones). Capacity
around 65 Mbytes.
The RD54 is a Maxtor XT2190. Capacity around 140 Mbytes. Won't work with
a RQDX1/2, only a RQDX3.
If you're really interested in pursuing the use of random MFM drives
on your RQDX2 or RQDX3, pay close attention to the notes that Terry
Kennedy has kept in
ftp://ftp.spc.edu/third-party-disks.txt
for the past decade or so. There are many details about the use of
non-DEC-branded-drives, and in particular there are some suggestions for
formatting them with XXDP.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
One of the surplus stores in my area just got in a load of 5-1/4 form factor
hard drives. They look just like the ones my PDP-11/73's use (RD51 or 52,
can't recall). I believe my controller is a RQDX2, not a RQDX3. My drives
are 30mb.
I was wondering, is there an easy way (short of looking up the model
numbers) to visually determine if any of the drives are ESDI and might work
with my 11/73?
Thanks!
Jay West
For sale: Apple IIe Technical Reference manual hardback with plastic
covered dust jacket. The first couple of pages have been torn out (page v
is the first page) otherwise it's in fine condition, no marked or damaged
pages. $10 plus shipping.
Joe
>OK, I've got basically everything easy to come up with any kind of ID,
>inventoried, a bunch of it's pretty much unmarked, so will take some
>looking. Does anyone know what any of this is?
>
> DCW-RL02
Well, it emulates a RL02, one would assume...
> MTI MLV11M-3
DLV11 clone
> MLSi-LP11
LP11 clone (line printer interface)
> MZV8-11 minntronics (50-ping ribbon cable)
DZV11 clone?
> RLV112
DLV11 clone, again.
> SCD-RQD11/EC
Sigma-rebranded version of the Webster WQESD ESDI controller. (DSD and
Qualogy also rebranded Webster boards.)
> SRQD11-A/03 Webster
Webster MFM controller
> CAMBEX 207-115-600 (RAM Board?)
Yep, count the chips to determine the capacity.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
>>> > RLV112
>>>
>>> DLV11 clone, again.
>>
>>>From the number I'd have thought of something that emulated a DEC RLV12
>>-- an RL0x controller for Q-bus.
>
>I was rather hoping it was a RLV12 clone instead of a RLV11 clone, since I
>need a second RL0x controller that will work in a 22-Bit system.
If it *is* a "RLV12 clone", it doesn't hook to s standard RL01/RL02 drive;
it would make a MFM (or SASI or SMD or ...) drive look like a RL01 or
RL02 to the system.
If you can describe the card more fully (connectors? Big chips?) we'll
do a better job of telling you exactly what it is. Sigma had the habit
of starting many (not all!) of their clone-cards with R's (most of the
others are S's), thus the confusion between RLV11 and DLV11.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
--- Gareth Knight <garethknight(a)contactbox.co.uk> wrote:
> >all I could get on my Apple composite
> > monitor was a green screen with a blank area at the top
>
> A green screen is a Chip memory error or a loose connection between the
> chips and socket. Take the cover off and check the connection.
It tends to be a loose Agnes chip. In the A500, C= later shipped a metal
clip to attempt to hold it together in shipping. While the machine is
open, check the integrity of the Agnus socket (the big square one in the
middle of the board). If a previous owner tried to remove the Fat Agnes
without a PLCC extractor, it's possible that they goobered up the socket.
Mostly, as long as there isn't a vertical crack from the top of a corner
down towards the PCB, you are probably OK for this problem.
If no crack, press on the Fat Agnes to re-seat it. It might click as it
seats.
-ethan
===
Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away. Please
send all replies to
erd(a)iname.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
Guys:
Does anyone out there own a *working* Xerox 6085?
I have a potentially interesting experiment in need
of a suitable volunteer.
Please reply via private e-mail.
Thanx.
Jeff
___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
So why did Kaypro or, Non-Linear Systems as it really was I understand, go
out of business anyway.
I had gotten busy with other endeavers and when I looked about 1989 or 1990
or so, Kaypro was gone.
It seemed as if they had enjoyed a good reputation. What exactly went wrong
if anybody knows?
Jim
--->
Been a little while since I got a "new" computer. One of the neighbors was
getting rid of some stuff from their basement, which included two
computers. Luckily they now I'm a computer freak and told me I could have
whatever I wanted. So, now I have an Amiga 500 with p/s, A520 video adaptor
and what looks like a printer cable. No disks :-(, but it did have the
original box(wow! a 7MHz 68000 and 512K RAM!!!). Also got a C64 with 1541
drive, two joysticks and probably 50-70 disks(haven't gotten around to
counting. But hey, Pac-Man is in there!). The C64 seems to be working just
fine(not sure about the drive yet), but the Amiga isn't. When I finally
figured out how the A520 worked, all I could get on my Apple composite
monitor was a green screen with a blank area at the top(looked kinfa like
the video is off a bit inside the monitor, which is partially true but it's
not THAT bad... just some hidden text on the edge usually) which blinks
maybe every 10-15 seconds or so. No sounds, no text, not really any video
at all. The power light is kinda flashing, maybe once every second or
two(haven't timed it yet). Any ideas on what's wrong? I'll hold off on the
how do I use it questions until after I finish raiding the local library of
the computer books, but feel free to send me any tips and tricks for these
systems...
--------------------------------------------------------------
| http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html |
| orham(a)qth.net list admin KD7BCY |
| ham-mac(a)qth.net Portland, OR |
--------------------------------------------------------------
Guys:
I asked some time ago if there was anyone interested
in MINC-11 hardware. If you guys are still out there,
please contact me via private E-Mail.
Thanks.
Jeff
___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
OK, I've got basically everything easy to come up with any kind of ID,
inventoried, a bunch of it's pretty much unmarked, so will take some
looking. Does anyone know what any of this is?
DCW-RL02 MTI MLV11M-3
MLSi-LP11 MDB SYSTEMS, INC
MZV8-11 minntronics (50-ping ribbon cable)
RLV112 Sigma
SCD-RQD11/EC
SRQD11-A/03 Webster
CAMBEX 207-115-600 (RAM Board?)
Couple of these look rather interesting.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
>It goes into Q-Bus based PDP11 systems. I know it will work with
>an 11/73 and 11/83. It may work in other systems as well.
Are you sure of that? Unless the floating point chip (and socket)
on an KDJ11-A or -B is identical to the one which is used on the
KDF11-A and -B (and I don't think they are identical, since the one
for the KDF is a dual chip carrier), it won't work.
The FPF11 board has a ribbon cable which ends in a connector which
fits the Floating point chip socket of a 11/23, 11/23+ and 11/24.
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
If you're determined to use a flatbed plotter to mill PCB's, you could
consider making a custom "quill" powered by a flexible-cable DREMEL tool.
You will need a really small (e.g. 0.020") carbide milling tool and LOTS of
them, since they break easily. I'd advise a very modest feed rate and, of
course, since you can't place traces at any less than 0.030" centers, and
that's pretty agressive, you will have to limit yourself to a VERY coarse
routing grid.
I'm told that you can expose and etch your own PCB quite a bit quicker than
you can mill one, and, aside from the chemicals and the associated disposal
problems, build better boards with chemicals than with a milling approach,
I'd suggest you look for a good, positive resist material you can apply with
the plotter in a refillable pen. There, your only problem will be in
adjusting the height of the pen and the speed of the plotter to allow for
the thickness of the PCB, and the thickness of the probably latex base
ink/resist.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, September 03, 1999 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: HP plotters
>At 03:42 AM 9/3/99 -0000, you wrote:
>>Joe wrote:
>>> I've heard that there are knifes available that can be used in them
to
>>> cut strip lines on copper PCB and knifes for cutting out vinyl and other
>>> materials but I don't know what they cost or where you can get them.
Does
>>> anyone know any more about them?
>>
>>There are small machines designed for the express purpose of milling
>>printed circuit boards. There's no way a pen plotter will be able to do
>>that with a knife or drill; they weren't designed to produce enough force
>>or move enough mass for that type of work.
>
> That's what I thought but I've seen people do it. One of the classes at
>my unverisity used some kind of knife in a HP plotter to make strip lines
>on a PCB for microwave work. Apparently they had been doing it for a while
>and it worked successfully. I wasn't interested in it at the time so I
>didn't pay attention to what they were doing and I don't even know which
>plotter they used except that it was a large flat bed HP plotter.
>
> Joe
>
I've seen knife assemblies which fit into the pen holder on the plotter.
Unfortunately I don't believe it's realistic to use them on the HP multi-pen
plotters because they won't fit in the carrier.
The one I examined had three roller bearings (implying it's runing on a
flatbed, BTW) with a swivel mounted (obviously quite meticulously assembled
as they're less than 1/2" in diameter blade centered between the rollers.
These rollers are in a barrel which is what the plotter grabs and align
themselves with respect to the direction of travel so the blade, which is
spring loaded and height adjustable for different thicknesses of vinyl.
I've never seen one working on a drum plotter like my 7585B, though.
I'd really hate to have to build one of these things.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, September 02, 1999 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: HP plotters
>At 09:07 AM 9/2/99 -0600, Dick wrote:
>>I had one fellow describe to me how he rigged his pen in the 7475 so he
>>could draw his PCB layouts directly on the copper. That certainly
wouldn't
>>work with my inkjet printer!
>
> I've heard that there are knifes available that can be used in them to
>cut strip lines on copper PCB and knifes for cutting out vinyl and other
>materials but I don't know what they cost or where you can get them. Does
>anyone know any more about them?
>
> Joe
>
I was reading the manual on my Plextor UltraPlex Wide, and it says it supports
VMS. Thought that knowledge might be useful to y'all. Their web site has
lots of info on their various products. http://www.plextor.com/home.html
--
Jim Strickland
jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
BeOS Powered!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
<>It goes into Q-Bus based PDP11 systems. I know it will work with
<>an 11/73 and 11/83. It may work in other systems as well.
Totally incompatable with J11 cpu.
<The FPF11 board has a ribbon cable which ends in a connector which
<fits the Floating point chip socket of a 11/23, 11/23+ and 11/24.
<
< Megan Gentry
< Former RT-11 Developer
Confirmed in the LSI-11 systems service manuals.
Allison
<An FPF11 can be used with a KDF11-B (11/23+), which is a Qbus
<machine. It can also be used in an 11/24, it derives only
<power from the bus (if I remember correctly).
Correct, I have one.
<I would suspect that it might also work with an 11/23 (KDF11-A),
<since it has the same chip location for Floating point as the
<11/23+, but I've never confirmed this.
It works with all of the 11/23 series (Q and U,). Jumpers configure power
for either U or Q and much be checked before inserting.
What it is is a faster version on a quad board for the FPU chip. If you
crunch numbers on 11/23s or 11/24s it's a must have.
FYI, It's a raft of 2901s and some microcode to emulate the FPU chip.
It's faster as all the data paths internally (to the board) are wider.
Allison
<The local N* users must have figured that out eventually. One of them got
<together with the guy who owned the Champion software outfit and started a
<users group for the "superbrain" computer which was a complete system
<packaged in what looked like a desktop terminal. I know that at least thi
<one guy still had his N* after that.
I still have Champion (for dos) running at work. It works.
The only thing the NS* had wrong to most people was the controller in
the memory map. NS* dos was far to primitive for most peoples liking
but it was quite small. Most people I know liked the NS box for it's
ruggedness and general good behavour. What wasn't liked much was the
too small disks (~90k under NSdos, ~82 cpm for the SSSD controller)
and the hard sector business. The DSDD controller was much better
but, most people went with a good soft sector controller and CPM.
My #1 NS* went that route in late 80 when I got my first upD765 to work
with. Since the controller was reliable it went in an explorer8085
as a second system and eprom blaster. I still have those and a third
stock NS* SD system and when I finally get a good DD NS* disk I'd fire
it up as a DSDD system with the later controller installed.
Was it the best? No, it was pretty good and most people liked it as
a solid box.
Allison
An FPF11 can be used with a KDF11-B (11/23+), which is a Qbus
machine. It can also be used in an 11/24, it derives only
power from the bus (if I remember correctly).
I would suspect that it might also work with an 11/23 (KDF11-A),
since it has the same chip location for Floating point as the
11/23+, but I've never confirmed this.
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
In a message dated 9/3/99 10:17:30 AM EST, John.Honniball(a)uwe.ac.uk writes:
<< My favourite peripheral of all time: the Roland 3-axis
milling machine. It could cut full 3D models out of blocks
of plastic, presumably controlled by a kind of 3D HPGL.
Made a hell of a mess with little green plastic shavings!
Anybody got one? Anybody want to get rid of one? :-)
--
John Honniball >>
This machine also could be used to produce beautiful wooden plaques. If you
_do_ find one of these, I'd suggest you buy or rig up a chip removal system.
Letting the chips fall where they may will greatly reduce tool life and also
produce imprecise cuts.
Glen Goodwin
0/0
In a message dated 9/3/99 9:56:57 AM EST, rigdonj(a)intellistar.net writes:
<< >Hmm -- most vinyl cutters are in reality just cheap single-pen plotters
with
>the equivalent of an Exacto knife in them.
That's about what I expected. But how do they make it cut in different
directions? Or is the knife on a swivel?
Joe >>
As a previous poster noted, the knife is mounted in a swiveling holder.
Glen Goodwin
0/0
OK, what kind of a system does a FPF11 go into? It's some kind of floating
point processor and it's Q-Bus.
Beware, I might be asking several, what is this sort of questions today.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
The local N* users must have figured that out eventually. One of them got
together with the guy who owned the Champion software outfit and started a
users group for the "superbrain" computer which was a complete system
packaged in what looked like a desktop terminal. I know that at least this
one guy still had his N* after that.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: allisonp(a)world.std.com <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, September 02, 1999 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: Best CP/M machine?
>> >From what I remember, the Northstar was probably the most widely hated
>> "system" around in these parts. There was a local company which produced
an
>> apparently quite nice accounting package (Champion???) which wouldn't run
on
>> their most popular model, the "Horizon" because it had an 8K ROM which
>> reduced their TPA under CP/M to the point where this package wouldn't run
>> properly.
>
>NS* system wasn't the problem it was the MPS-A floppy system, It looked
>like 20 of ram/rom at 0E800h through 0EFFFh, It was memory mapped. There
>was only 256 bytes of actual rom. This generally meant for CPM users that
>the upper 4k of ram was unused.
>
>The fix was simple, CCP and BDOS ending 256bytes belove the controller
>and tweek the jump table for 0F000h. Then you put the BIOS above the
>FDC in ram. Works well and you end up with a 56-58k system.
>
>> The CompuPro combinations fit in the same category, i.e. the ones who
loved
>> 'em loved 'em, and the rest of us didn't. The owner of that company had
the
>> practice of having his people design circuits whith whatever he'd bought
for
>> cheap this week, and that meant that sometimes they were good, and
sometimes
>> they weren't. His boards often suffered from compatibility problems,
even
>> with other boards of his own manufacture. It was, to be sure, spotty.
>
>Stating that is nice but I have about 25-30 of those boards (all the
>interfacer models, RAM16/17/20/21/22/23, DISK1A, DISK3, system support,
>8/16 cpu, CPU-Z, MPX-1, Mdrive, two crates) NONE support your view. This
>may not be true for older boards (I'll bet the early ones were poor).
>
>I know they were considered reliable as they were pulled from 10 s100
>crates that were used here before PCs replaced them. They ran CHAMPION,
>DBASE, BTRIVE and a few other familiar names using Concurrent-dos on the
>8/16 cards.
>
>> S-100 systems, in general, can't be viewed in the same way as, say, a
>> single-board machine, because there is too much potential variation in
its
>> configuration to define it in a specific way. Some manufacturers sold
board
>> sets, about which they were willing to make certain claims about
>> performance, etc, but most of them just wanted to ship their boards and
let
>> the headaches fall where they may.
>
>They clearly werent PLUG and PLAY. Then again it was an industry wide
>issue. The only way out was a one vendor box or do you own system
>integration <at your own risk>.
>
>
>> Computer stores, notably ComputerLand, quite popular in the late
'70's-early
>> '80's, tended to sell board sets from Cromemco, Vector, and occasionally
>> NorthStar because the mfg would stand behind the sets they pushed. The
>> Cromemco board sets were often displayed in a desk-enclosure with
integral
>> (vertically mounted) Persci (very fast, voice-coil-driven) floppy drives,
>> into which it was very easy to drop a paper clip or something.
Businesses
>> tended to buy these because they were sold under a single aegis as
opposed
>> to letting someone "integrate" a system for them. The theory was that
there
>> was less risk that way.
>
>Certainly true to my experience on the east coast, the real problem was
>the inductry was so volitile that Fly-by-night computer was often common.
>and getting support for those older combines was at best iffy. From 1975
>through 1980 most every vendor we knew as the "originators" of the
>industry either went under or changed names/product multiple times trying
>to adapt to the changes that were going on. From 1980 on it only got
>worse!
>
>However, this is not a CPM problem.
>
>Allison
>
>
<ROTFLOL> Hey, I think we're on to something here!
Perhaps this new strategy should be includedin the Collectors Guide
book.....
In addition, I think one could choose where to place the dumpster
strategicly, like right next to a company I know that has a decked out
PDP-11/40 system in storage that I can't get them to let go of... :)
Jay West
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Strickland <jim(a)calico.litterbox.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, September 03, 1999 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: AS400 saved from dumpster (apparently)
>>
>> This suggests perhaps a hunting theory;
>>
>> Put out a big dumpster that says "COMPUTER EQUIPMENT ONLY"
>> and set up a small blind perhaps 45' away ( you don't want
>> to scare the prey ) then have it manned round the clock by
>> collector/volunteers watching. As soon as a truck pulls up
>> you swoop down and rescue the gear. You might need some
>> decoys so maybe a keyboard and an old terminal in a box
>> next to the dumpster would help.
>>
>> --Chuck
>
>*laugh* Might want to put a fairly thick cushion of foam rubber inside it,
>in case the quarrey is fast enough to get the machine into the dumpster
before
>being pounced. (and to save cash, since once it's in your dumpster it's
yours.
>:)
>
>--
>Jim Strickland
>jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> BeOS Powered!
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
well, it's not really a classic to my way of thinking but.....
I was sitting in my office 1/2 hour ago, and out the window I saw a truck
pull up to the dumpster in the parking lot. The guy started to pull out a
very nice clean decomissioned hours ago AS400. He was headed to the dumpster
with it. I have no interest in IBM stuff whatsoever, but decided to walk
down for a looksee.
When I got downstairs, someone in another office downstairs had seen the
same thing and was already handing the guy cash for the system.
I found it amusing.....
Jay West
Jason Olson <jolson(a)lsc.mnscu.edu>
Jason has a 5362 he'd like to get running, but no SSP for it. I can't help him
at the moment as my 5363 is in pieces and I'm too busy to put it back together
right now.
--
David Wollmann
DST / DST Data Conversion
http://www.ibmhelp.com/
I had one fellow describe to me how he rigged his pen in the 7475 so he
could draw his PCB layouts directly on the copper. That certainly wouldn't
work with my inkjet printer!
I know at least one guy who plots resist directly on his copper using a CD
printer.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: allisonp(a)world.std.com <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, September 02, 1999 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: HP plotters
>> >7550 takes up too much table space. I guess I'm keeping my eyes open
for
>> >an 7470 or 7475 with RS-232 interface.
>
>I have a 7475/serial, they are nice to have/use. No, it's not for sale
>as it is useful!
>
>Allison
>
>
Tom said:
> I now have need for some basic information on the possibility of
> non-binary computers, but am unable to find anything. Can anybody point
> me in the direction of some info?
> Thanks.
> Tom Owad
Tom, just search the Web for the phrase "analog computer". :)
--Doug
====================================================
Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com (work)
Sr. Software Eng. mranalog(a)home.com (home)
Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com
Sunnyvale,CA
Curator
Analog Computer Museum and History Center
http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog
====================================================
> My favourite was the old Xerox 820-II, with the high keyboard and 8inch
> drives. It runs Dbase and WordStar with great dignity.
Since we're voting, I want to put a vote in for the PMC-101
"MicroMate".
The MicroMate is a 128K CP/M computer that is the size of one TRS-80
floppy disk drive, so it fits anywhere. You can add 3 additional
external
drives. And it comes with a utility that allows you to configure any of
the drives as any of (about) 5 different CP/M formats, so you can copy
and translate the format of CP/M disks in one operation. It has built-in
"TERMINAL" and "MODEM" serial ports. And (I don't have it in front of
me)
I believe it also has a built-in parallel printer port.
--Doug
====================================================
Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com (work)
Sr. Software Eng. mranalog(a)home.com (home)
Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com
Sunnyvale,CA
Curator
Analog Computer Museum and History Center
http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog
====================================================
No Doubt about it, you need a Kaypro.
They came with just about all the software you would need to run a small
office, Wordstar, DataStar, DB2, Basic and the list went on.
They were very reliable. I used mine right up until 1991. The Kaypro 2X I
had bought in 1984 ran WordStar faster than the IBM Xt's.
As they were the portables of the day, it will take up less space than some
of the other CP/M machines of the time period.
My two cents.
Jim
"If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer,
a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and
explode once a year, killing everyone inside."
( Robert X. Cringely, "InfoWorld" )
Doug Spence said:
> >The 5 1/4" disks were used on, among others, the Vector Graphic
> >S-100 computers.
>
> OK, so at least the media wasn't specially produced for AES. :)
>
A few years ago I picked up a large quantity of 16 sector disks
and I was begining to think that I would never find a machine
that needed them.
Then I found this FDS-100 Minifile made by G.U.C. Products.
This is a micro based floppy subsystem with a single drive,
keypad and RS-232 interface (it was also available with 488,
8 bit parallel, or PDP-11 interface) You just open a blank
file with the keypad, then dump data to the FDS-100 through
the serial port and then close the file with the keypad. And
loading afile is just that easy too.
Anyway, mine is double sided, uses a Shugard 450 drive, and
stores 178,560 bytes net on 16 sector disks.
--Doug
====================================================
Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com (work)
Sr. Software Eng. mranalog(a)home.com (home)
Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com
Sunnyvale,CA
Curator
Analog Computer Museum and History Center
http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog
====================================================
Anyone got any ideas for this guy? Please reply directly to him, as he's not subscribed to the list. Thanks. -- MB
--- Forwarded Message from Dave <dam4(a)axe.humboldt.edu> ---
I have a question. I have been looking for a Lisa for quite some time
and I finally found one (Lisa 2 or XL, not quite sure). I brought it
home and excitedly plugged it in and ... nothing. No spinning of drives
no monitor activity just a small, short hiss that comes from the power
supply every time I hit the soft switch. According to sun's pdf repair
guide this is perhaps a problem with the power supply (mine is the 1.8
model). Could you perhaps suggest to me (or refer me to source that
could) how to check my power supply, or if this is even the right course
of action. Have been diddling with this for three days now and have no
ideas.
I did however take a volt meter to the power supply and noted that while
I have black on body of the power supply I only get one five volt
reading and nothing else. That comes from the third tooth up and only
on one side.
Any help would really make my day and with luck I could join the likes
of you folks.
Thanks a lot
Dave
In a message dated 09/02/1999 7:05:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rigdonj(a)intellistar.net writes:
> I've heard that there are knifes available that can be used in them to
> cut strip lines on copper PCB and knifes for cutting out vinyl and other
> materials but I don't know what they cost or where you can get them. Does
> anyone know any more about them?
>
> Joe
Hmm -- most vinyl cutters are in reality just cheap single-pen plotters with
the equivalent of an Exacto knife in them. Check with wholesale suppliers of
machines for the signage or awards industries and you should be able to turn
up someone who can provide a cutting tool which will come close to -- if not
exactly match -- the holders for your pens.
Or, you can e-mail me off-list & I'll point you in the right direction.
Glen
0/0
There's no doubt that there were several really good CP/M machines out there
but I suppose when you say CP/M "machine" you're not referring to the boxes
built to order by the dealers. These were often S-100 boxes with Cromemco
boards, running 5-6 MHz using ultra-fast PERSCI 8" floppies and PRIAM or
similarly big and expensive hard disks. Soldier of Fortune magazine had two
boxes built with Systems Group boards, in CCS mainframes and using KONAN
SMC-100 adapters to their CDC Lark SMD drives.
Unquestionably, if you're looking for a computer "brand" it would have to be
either a Kaypro or, of course, the Apple-II, with a Z-80 card, 16K memory
add-on, SVA 8" drive controller, and the VIDEX or similar 24x80 display
board. You could actually use that for useful work. At the age I'd reached
by 1980, (35) I was still able to read the Kaypro display, however, but the
full-sized one normally used with the Apple][ was easier to use. In any
case, I read somewhere that there were as many Apple ][ machines running
CP/M as any other single system.
I never learned to like them, though . . .
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim <DD950(a)prodigy.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: Best CP/M machine?
>No Doubt about it, you need a Kaypro.
>
>They came with just about all the software you would need to run a small
>office, Wordstar, DataStar, DB2, Basic and the list went on.
>
>They were very reliable. I used mine right up until 1991. The Kaypro 2X I
>had bought in 1984 ran WordStar faster than the IBM Xt's.
>
>As they were the portables of the day, it will take up less space than some
>of the other CP/M machines of the time period.
>
>My two cents.
>
>Jim
>
>
>"If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer,
>a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and
>explode once a year, killing everyone inside."
>( Robert X. Cringely, "InfoWorld" )
>
>
>
>
>
> My name is Bo Zimmerman. I've been collecting computers (and calculators,
> and disk drives, and printers, etc, etc) made by Commodore Business Machines
> for about three years, with my primary interest being programming and
> tinkering (upgrading, networking, etc.) If anyone is amused by such things,
> I maintain a web site of my collection at
> http://www.zimmers.net/cbmpics/index.html.
Welcome to the list! I grew up on the PET, and there are several other CBM
people on the list. Larry Anderson is our resident expert, I think.
> My question concerns insurance, and is the reason I was referred to this
> fine gathering. Does anyone here carry insurance against fire (or theft?!)
> for their collections?
IIRC my home contents insurance doesn't cover my collection. I intend to change
that... man~ana...
When I brought a Tek 4052 to the USA for the VCF last year, I insured it for
2000 pounds (about $3000 US), which cost me 100 pounds just for the 2 weeks I
was out of the UK. With a policy excess of 100 pounds, I didn't bother claiming
for the minor chassis bends and keyboard damamge when the airline dropped it.
It still worked, after all!
I don't know whether my insurance experience is typical. Anyone else?
Philip.
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Hi!
just wanted to let you know that there was a major
update of the HomeComputer-Museum web-pages.
During the last months I took a lot of photos
(computers and especially boxes) and finally
have quite a few pictures of the HCM machines
on the web.
You may want to have a look and maybe you even
consider putting a LINK to the HCM at your own web page!
BTW: I am always interested in trading some computers!
Stefan Walgenbach,
http://www.HomeComputer.de
mailto:Stefan@HomeComputer.de
>>>I had one fellow describe to me how he rigged his pen in the 7475 so he
>>>could draw his PCB layouts directly on the copper. That certainly wouldn't
>>>work with my inkjet printer!
>>
>> I've heard that there are knifes available that can be used in them to
>>cut strip lines on copper PCB and knifes for cutting out vinyl and other
>>materials but I don't know what they cost or where you can get them. Does
>>anyone know any more about them?
>>
>> Joe
>
> Gerber, I think, used to have a system using a tiny router (like a drill
> bit, except designed to cut sideways) to cut out circuit traces for board
> prototyping.
>
> Roland packaged a system with a plotter and swiveling exacto knife "pen"
> that most sign shops used to cut letters for banners etc.
I think Mike has hit the nail on the head here. Unlike a pen, a knife only
works in one direction. The "pen" of a cutting plotter MUST swivel for it to
work - and giving it some degree of caster to swivel itself loses accuracy
really fast.
I like the idea of a router in the pen part of a plotter - but it's a lot of
mass for the pen carriage to move around!
Philip.
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept
for the presence of computer viruses.
Power Technology Centre, Ratcliffe-on-Soar,
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Does anyone know of any possible sources in the Syracuse, New York area
that they'd be willing to share / divulge / point at? I'm particularly
watching for DEC Q-bus goodies....
Thanks...
Stan
In a message dated 9/2/99 9:11:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rexstout(a)uswest.net writes:
> So, now I have an Amiga 500 with p/s, A520 video adaptor
> and what looks like a printer cable. No disks :-(, but it did have the
> original box(wow! a 7MHz 68000 and 512K RAM!!!). Also got a C64 with 1541
> drive, two joysticks and probably 50-70 disks(haven't gotten around to
> counting. But hey, Pac-Man is in there!). The C64 seems to be working just
> fine(not sure about the drive yet), but the Amiga isn't. When I finally
> figured out how the A520 worked, all I could get on my Apple composite
> monitor was a green screen with a blank area at the top(looked kinfa like
> the video is off a bit inside the monitor, which is partially true but it's
> not THAT bad... just some hidden text on the edge usually) which blinks
> maybe every 10-15 seconds or so. No sounds, no text, not really any video
> at all. The power light is kinda flashing, maybe once every second or
> two(haven't timed it yet). Any ideas on what's wrong? I'll hold off on the
> how do I use it questions until after I finish raiding the local library of
> the computer books, but feel free to send me any tips and tricks for these
> systems...
>
hmmm, if you have the A520 adaptor plugged in, you should be using the RF out
plug, or least that's what i used on mine. the amiga wont beep, but the disk
drive shoud be polling for a system disk; you should hear it. the screen
should show a hand holding a disk that says WORKBENCH.
power light certainly shouldnt flash! check to see if there's a memory wedge
installed undneath the computer. It's under the trap door. try taking it out
for testing.
Jake:
On Thu, 2 Sep 1999 01:31:26 -0400 (EDT) Jacob Ritorto <jritorto(a)nut.net>
writes:
<Cool stuff about MIX C ala c-128 SNIPed>
> PS. I'm still M$ free, BTW, but I sold out about three years ago and
> now use commodity hardware w/FreeBSD in addition to my pdp11s running
> 2BSD
You've aroused my interest with this. You run *BSD in a PDP-11? WHich
model PDP do you have that does this? I have a lead on an 11/73 I can
probably get for next to nothing (with a SCSI HD controller!).
I presume you're running Net/2 or some derivative thereof.
Jeff
___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
How about the Dimension 68K? CP/M _and_ Apple, TRS-80 and MS-Dos all in one
machine with a separate floppy drive for each.
Neil Morrison
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk [SMTP:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk]
> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 5:15 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Re: Best CP/M machine? -- sorry
>
> > You recently posted a message which only contained the text from my
> original
> > inquiry -- an editing error, perhaps? If so how about resending your
> reply?
>
> Ooops!!!
>
> Here you are
>
> -------------------------------------------
>
> > What was the best CP/M based machine for business? Are applications and
>
> > utilities still obtainable? What about development tools and
> documentation?
> >
> > Your opinions, please.
>
> I am going to leave out all the S100 machines. Not because I don't like
> them - I do. But an S100 machine is really defined by what cards you put
> in it, rather than the box. And thus there are far too many choices to
> reasonably commment on.
>
> OK, so restricting the list to essentially pre-configured machines, and
> remembering that I'm a hardware hacker, the ones I particularly like are :
>
>
> The Epson QX10. It's got up to 256K of bank-switched RAM. It's got an NEC
> 7220 graphics chip and a bitmapped display (on which it supports multiple
> text fonts). It's got the wonderful Epson voice-coil floppy drives.
>
> The DEC Rainbow. A twin-processor machine, Z80 and 8088. You can run
> CP/M-80 programs on the Z80, with 62K (IIRC) of memory. There's an
> optional bitmapped colour card with (yet again) an 7220.
>
> There were 'business' progams (spreadsheets, word processors, etc) for
> both of those. Development tools (at least an assembler) should be
> available somewhere.
>
> -tony
>
> I remember you mentioning the PMI modification that makes the >11/73
into an 11/83 on INFO-pdp11 a few years ago. Could you please give
>step-by-step instructions on doing that here? Does 2.11BSD have the
>smarts to use this, or is it a wholly-hardware-incarnated thing? I
>notice my '73 lagging a bit on memory-intensive stuff.
All it takes is a KDJ11-B, the proper memory, and the proper ordering
of the CPU and memory in the backplane. I've forgotten the exact
designation for the memory, I think it is MSV11-J or MSV11-Q..
(don't quote me... I have to check)
The memory boards are placed in the bus before the CPU... if you have
one memory board, it goes in slot 1 and the CPU in slot 2. If you
have two memory boards, they go in slots 1 and 2 and the CPU goes
in slot 3.
Use of PMI is entirely hardware-related, with no specific software
support required to enable it.
I have three machines so configured.
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
Tony:
You recently posted a message which only contained the text from my original
inquiry -- an editing error, perhaps? If so how about resending your reply?
Glen
0/0
--- Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Sep 1999, Ethan Dicks wrote:
>
> If memory serves, if you need to change the boot ROM to use DSDD, you need
> also to make some mods to the motherboard. If, on the other hand, your
> machine has a ROM of 81-232 or higher you then need only install the
> drives and get a DSDD system disk appropriate to the ROM.
That is exactly the version of ROM I have.
-ethan
===
Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away. Please
send all replies to
erd(a)iname.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
Hello all:
I hope this is "classic" enough . . .
Though I've been involved with and have earned my keep with desktop
microcomputers for a period covering almost twenty years, I was in another
field during the time when CP/M was popular.
I'd like to add a CP/M based machine to my collection but as with all of my
old computers I want to have a system I can use for at least one
business-related application. This helps make my collection tax-deductable
as a business expense ;>) BTW, I don't mind writing my own code.
What was the best CP/M based machine for business? Are applications and
utilities still obtainable? What about development tools and documentation?
Your opinions, please.
Thanks,
Glen Goodwin
0/0
My favorite was the IBM (model forgotten) which had a bolt on division unit
<G>
Neil Morrison
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ss(a)allegro.com [SMTP:ss@allegro.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 3:19 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Re: non-binary computers?
>
> Re:
> > A number of early small computers were non-binary. One that comes
[Neil Morrison] .. > table lookup.
> Was that the CADET? (Can't Add, Doesn't Even Try)
>
> > The tables were stored in memory, so you could change how the operations
> worked!
>
> A colleague of mine, Fred White, tells stories about changing that table
> for
> some scientific routines, and then restoring it at subroutine exit.
>
> sieler(a)allegro.com
>smarts to use this, or is it a wholly-hardware-incarnated thing? I notice
>my '73 lagging a bit on memory-intensive stuff.
> I'm curious about that too. Does anyone know if the 11/53 cpu board supports
>PMI as well?
>
> -Dave McGuire
Sorry no such luck an the 11/53 that I am aware of. To install PMI with an 83
the memory goes first on the bus then the CPU. For Qbus systems you need the
MSV11-JD or JE. You can't use the MSV11-JB or JC. They can only be used on
11/84 machines.
Dan
On Thu, 2 Sep 1999, Ethan Dicks wrote:
>
>
> --- Phil Clayton <musicman38(a)mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > I would cast my vote for the Kaypro I have one in my office that runs with a
> > nice continous demo program that I wrote in BASIC...
>
> Care to share your demo? I've got a Kaypro 2 I picked up at the last Dayton
> Hamfest (and a spare Tandon TM-100-2 double-sided drive to perhaps upgrade
> with, should I care to plunk down the cash for a new boot ROM that supports
> double-sided disks).
>
> -ethan
If memory serves, if you need to change the boot ROM to use DSDD, you need
also to make some mods to the motherboard. If, on the other hand, your
machine has a ROM of 81-232 or higher you then need only install the
drives and get a DSDD system disk appropriate to the ROM.
- don
