2 Sep
1999
2 Sep
'99
12:57 a.m.
There's no doubt that there were several really good CP/M machines out there
but I suppose when you say CP/M "machine" you're not referring to the boxes
built to order by the dealers. These were often S-100 boxes with Cromemco
boards, running 5-6 MHz using ultra-fast PERSCI 8" floppies and PRIAM or
similarly big and expensive hard disks. Soldier of Fortune magazine had two
boxes built with Systems Group boards, in CCS mainframes and using KONAN
SMC-100 adapters to their CDC Lark SMD drives.
Unquestionably, if you're looking for a computer "brand" it would have to
be
either a Kaypro or, of course, the Apple-II, with a Z-80 card, 16K memory
add-on, SVA 8" drive controller, and the VIDEX or similar 24x80 display
board. You could actually use that for useful work. At the age I'd reached
by 1980, (35) I was still able to read the Kaypro display, however, but the
full-sized one normally used with the Apple][ was easier to use. In any
case, I read somewhere that there were as many Apple ][ machines running
CP/M as any other single system.
I never learned to like them, though . . .
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim <DD950(a)prodigy.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: Best CP/M machine?
No Doubt about it, you need a Kaypro.
They came with just about all the software you would need to run a small
office, Wordstar, DataStar, DB2, Basic and the list went on.
They were very reliable. I used mine right up until 1991. The Kaypro 2X I
had bought in 1984 ran WordStar faster than the IBM Xt's.
As they were the portables of the day, it will take up less space than some
of the other CP/M machines of the time period.
My two cents.
Jim
"If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer,
a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and
explode once a year, killing everyone inside."
( Robert X. Cringely, "InfoWorld" )
2 Sep
2 Sep
1:31 a.m.
New subject: Speaking of CP/M... (Re: Best CP/M machine?)
While we're on the subject, I'd just like to mention that I have
an original copy of the CP/M-80 version of the MIX C compiler. 5 1/4
floppies in some Kaypro format. Book too. I bought it about eight years
ago directly from Mix to run on my Commodore 128. At first they said they
had no more books but when I sounded really sad, they offered me one with
a "slightly creased" cover (turned out to be quite near perfect, actually)
I think it was $29.95 + shipping. I bought it because I was
taking a c programming class in college and refused to use peecees back
then because I thought the architecture was too crass to bother with an
upgrade.
PS. I'm still M$ free, BTW, but I sold out about three years ago and now
use commodity hardware w/FreeBSD in addition to my pdp11s running 2BSD
jake
10:25 a.m.
New subject: Speaking of CP/M... (Re: Best CP/M machine?)
Awsome. How would one go about getting a copy of that compiler today, do ya
think? I have Commodore 128 myself and could use a nice C compiler.
- Bo
While we're on the subject, I'd just like to
mention that I have
an original copy of the CP/M-80 version of the MIX C compiler. 5 1/4
floppies in some Kaypro format. Book too. I bought it about eight years
ago directly from Mix to run on my Commodore 128. At first they said they
had no more books but when I sounded really sad, they offered me one with
a "slightly creased" cover (turned out to be quite near perfect, actually)
I think it was $29.95 + shipping. I bought it because I was
taking a c programming class in college and refused to use peecees back
then because I thought the architecture was too crass to bother with an
upgrade.
PS. I'm still M$ free, BTW, but I sold out about three years ago and now
use commodity hardware w/FreeBSD in addition to my pdp11s running 2BSD
jake
1:58 p.m.
New subject: Speaking of CP/M... (Re: Best CP/M machine?)
I assume you have the cp/m boot stuff for your 128, right? If so, you may
be able to purchase the compiler it from Mix, but I don't know. If you
can't find them and can't find a way to acquire it legitimately, let me
know and we'll work on it off-list.
jake
On Thu, 2 Sep 1999, Bo Zimmerman wrote:
Awsome. How would one go about getting a copy of that
compiler today, do ya
think? I have Commodore 128 myself and could use a nice C compiler.
- Bo
5:13 p.m.
On Wed, 1 Sep 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote:
There's no doubt that there were several really
good CP/M machines out there
but I suppose when you say CP/M "machine" you're not referring to the
boxes
built to order by the dealers. These were often S-100 boxes with Cromemco
boards, running 5-6 MHz using ultra-fast PERSCI 8" floppies and PRIAM or
similarly big and expensive hard disks. Soldier of Fortune magazine had two
boxes built with Systems Group boards, in CCS mainframes and using KONAN
SMC-100 adapters to their CDC Lark SMD drives.
Unquestionably, if you're looking for a computer "brand" it would have to
be
either a Kaypro or, of course, the Apple-II, with a Z-80 card, 16K memory
add-on, SVA 8" drive controller, and the VIDEX or similar 24x80 display
board. You could actually use that for useful work. At the age I'd reached
by 1980, (35) I was still able to read the Kaypro display, however, but the
full-sized one normally used with the Apple][ was easier to use. In any
case, I read somewhere that there were as many Apple ][ machines running
CP/M as any other single system.
That would be very interested if documented. However, I find it very hard
to believe!
- don
I never learned to like them, though . . .
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim <DD950(a)prodigy.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: Best CP/M machine?
No Doubt about it, you need a Kaypro.
They came with just about all the software you would need to run a small
office, Wordstar, DataStar, DB2, Basic and the list went on.
They were very reliable. I used mine right up until 1991. The Kaypro 2X I
had bought in 1984 ran WordStar faster than the IBM Xt's.
As they were the portables of the day, it will take up less space than some
of the other CP/M machines of the time period.
My two cents.
Jim
"If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer,
a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and
explode once a year, killing everyone inside."
( Robert X. Cringely, "InfoWorld" )
3 Sep
3 Sep
11:27 a.m.
> Unquestionably, if you're looking for a
computer "brand" it would have to be
> either a Kaypro or, of course, the Apple-II, with a Z-80 card, 16K memory
> add-on, SVA 8" drive controller, and the VIDEX or similar 24x80 display
> board. You could actually use that for useful work. At the age I'd reached
> by 1980, (35) I was still able to read the Kaypro display, however, but the
> full-sized one normally used with the Apple][ was easier to use. In any
> case, I read somewhere that there were as many Apple ][ machines running
> CP/M as any other single system.
Don:
That would be very interested if documented. However,
I find it very hard
to believe!
Well, I have no numbers at hand and I think it is impossible
to get 'em (MS won't tell you and most cards have been clones)
but since a) the CPM card was less than USD 30 in the early 80s
(as clone), b) from around 1982 on almost every clone board
already incooperated a Z80 and c) almost every comercial CP/M
soft was also available in an Apple ][ version (different disk
format and some specialalities about I/O), I belive that one
can assume the Apple ][ with Softcard(-clone) as the #1 brand
CP/M system.
To publish my own opinion on that question:
a) Of course the Apple ][ - maybe with a Z80H subsystem (seperate
64 to 128 K RAM and upt to 10 MHz) - as one of the most supported
CP/M systems with literaly _all_ possible soft.
b) A Superbrain - This machine is just _way_cool_ -well ok, there's
some nostalgia about ... For todays CP/M usage I assume a,c,d or e
c) An PC with NEC V2x/3x or just any 8086/88 Machine with a replacement
by V30/V20 - preferly a high performance PC like an IBM-PC (clone)
with Screamer or any higher clock rate clone.
d) One of the 'modern' Dual CPU S100 systems (any manufacturer).
e) look for a Z180 (HD64180) machine - they are available in flavours
until 20 MHz.
I assumed that we where talking about CP/M-80 (and to some extend CP/M-86).
Well, a) is of course a good choice if space is a reason, since you'll
get two classic systems at once, while c) is possibly the best choice
to get a maximum performance at minimum cost - and you are able to run
CP/M-80 and CP/M-86 and MS-DOS - with some trick even seamless without
reboot - just start the programms :)
Gruss
H.
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Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
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