- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by athornton＠gmail.com

From: Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> > To: "Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: Motor generator > > I think because for lesser minds, such as mine, [APL is] line noise. > > A friend of mine, a Perl guru, studied A-Plus for a while. (Morgan > Stanley's in-house APL dialect.) He said to me that "when I came back > to Perl, I found it irritatingly verbose..." and then was immediately > deeply shocked at the thought. > > I seriously think this is why Lisp didn't go mainstream. For a certain > type of human mind, it's wonderful and clear and expressive, but for > most of us, it's just a step too far. > > Ditto Forth, ditto Postscript, etc. > > Plain old algebraic infix notation has thrived for half a millennium > because it's easily assimilated and comprehended, and many arguably > better notations just are not. > > The importance of being easy, as opposed to being clear, or > unambiguous, or expressive, etc., is widely underestimated. > > Yes, that. C is a great assembly language preprocessor for a PDP-11. The PDP-11 is a beautiful, intelligible architecture, where things happen one at a time in sequence. This is easy to think about. Unfortunately it's got very little to do with the way that modern high-performance silicon gets stuff done. (Aside: it's also weird that the one-thing-at-a-time sequencing is the thing that feels logical and intuitive to us since it is absolutely not how our brains work.) I would argue that Forth and Postscript are hard to understand for a different reason than APL: APL is inherently vectorized, and requires, more or less, that you treat matrices as single entities. Not many people's brains work that way. It's hard enough to learn to treat complex numbers as single entities. Forth and Postscript require you to keep a really deep stack in your brain to understand the code, and people aren't really very good at doing that for more than three or four items (much fewer than 7 +/- 2). Both of these are much more difficult for most people to work with and reason about than something imperative and infix-based. The fundamental problem is the impedance mismatch between the way most people think (which would at the very least take a radical reframing of curricula to change, and might not work anyway: look at the failure of the New Math, which was indeed very elegant, taught mathematics from first principles as set theory, and was not at all geared to the way young children _actually learn things_) and where we can continue to squeeze performance out of silicon. This is really not tractable. I think our best hope is to make the silicon really good at generating and figuring out graphs so it can dispatch lots of pieces of what feels like a sequential problem in parallel and come out with the same answer as you would have gotten doing it the naive one-step-at-a-time way. But we've already done that, and, yeah, it mostly works, but the abstraction is leaky and then you get Meltdown and Spectre. I don't have any answers other than "move to Montana, drop off the grid, and raise dental floss." Adam

5 years, 1 month

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Motor generator

by cctalk＠emailtoilet.com

Many thanks for all the info. I just wanted to make sure my recesses were right. I asked about MG because, in an audio forum, I see folks paying crazy money for AC cords and power line conditioners. I thought a good MG would solve many of the 'problems' they are trying to fix.

5 years, 1 month

6
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Motor generator

by cctalk＠emailtoilet.com

In the deep recesses of my mind I seem to remember something about S/360 machines using a motor generator. If I am right was this to create a stable power source at a certain frequency or voltage?

5 years, 1 month

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Lecture: Forth: from the minicomputer to the microcontroller, 2021-05-08, 19:00

by stueberahoo＠yahoo.de

Hi all, you're invited to the Update computer club[0] public lecture series "Updateringar"[1]! Update is a Swedish computer club founded in 1983 whose members tinker with all kinds of computers, from Raspberry Pi to PDP-12. The club has a big collection of historic computers. In this lecture series we'll talk about everything related to computers: Historic and modern computers, operating systems, programming, hardware projects, creating art with computers, building a computer museum, and more. When: 2021-05-08, 19:00 CEST Where: https://bbb.cryptoparty.se/b/upd-0mo-m2u-aq8 Forth: from the minicomputer to the microcontroller Forth is an almost esoteric programming language in the eyes of most modern programmers, but still worth learning if only to expand your horizon. On modern microcontrollers the strengths that made Forth stand out in on 1970s minicomputers are relevant once again: fast enough execution, low worst case latency, full control over the system, powerful metaprogramming, and interactive development. This presentation will show how to overcome the initially near vertical learning curve and get the Mecrisp Stellaris Forth system running on a STM32 microcontroller without breaking the bank. Prior exposure to microcontrollers or assembler is helpful, but not required. Once the Forth system is running we will use it to explore either the hardware it's running on or its implementation and available implementation tradeoffs. Jan Bramkamp (CCCHB) The lecture is free and open to everyone. Upcoming: 2021-06-12, 19:00: How to start and run a computer museum. Thiemo Eddiks (Oldenburger Computer-Museum) Hope to see you there, Anke P.S.: I hope this is not too offtopic, but I assume there are people interested in Forth here. [0] http://www.update.uu.se/index_eng.html [1] https://www.update.uu.se/wiki/doku.php/projekt:updateringar

5 years, 1 month

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cctech Digest, Vol 80, Issue 5

by athornton＠gmail.com

Message: 18 > Date: Thu, 6 May 2021 15:18:04 +0200 > From: Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> > To: Jay Jaeger <cube1 at charter.net>, "General Discussion: On-Topic and > Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: That VAXStation4000vlc 3W3 video connector > Message-ID: > < > CAMTenCGKYnC++cT2gfpCvvntTjv-FrvivhuoXLcjWDesf2WC9w at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > On Wed, 5 May 2021 at 17:59, Jay Jaeger via cctalk > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > I, for one, did find this helpful - one could make one of these up to > > test before possibly forking over the funds to build one properly. > > If anyone were up to making a small batch of these, I'd be happy to > pay for a few, plus shipping etc. I have 3 ? 4000VLCs and only 1 > monitor for 'em, and I hope to get them running again sometime... > > > I'd buy at least one, seeing as how it was my original question, and whatever I end up stitching together will be really gross. If whoever is doing it would ALSO do the much simpler DEC 15-pin to VGA adapter, I'd probably buy some of those too. Adam

5 years, 1 month

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That VAXStation4000vlc 3W3 video connector

by prd＠decarchive.org

> On 4 May 2021, at 19:00, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > > Message: 17 > Date: Mon, 3 May 2021 16:22:45 -0700 > From: Adam Thornton <athornton at gmail.com> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts" <cctech at classiccmp.org> > Subject: That VAXStation4000vlc 3W3 video connector > Message-ID: > <CAP2nic2zsyqsLo1dFTTPh4WFV6utS1Tt_4RMsROjsmw78+8zKQ at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > I assume it would be way too much to hope that HD BNC would fit it? Does > anyone have a pointer to the actual physical dimensions of the itty-bitty > BNC-ish connector in the video port of the VAXStation4000vlc? If I can get > red, green, and blue out (assuming since there are only 3 connectors it's > sync-on-green) I can put together a sync splitter and turn it into VGA. I > have at least one decent multisync VGA monitor still, although none with > the RGB BNC inputs. Firstly, apologies if my response doesn't show up nicely in this thread --- I only receive the daily digests so I'm not sure how best to reply to a specific post... But on the subject of sourcing / making video cables with 3W3 connectors on one end, I also balked at the cost of the coaxial insets and decided to make an only marginally dodgy (if I do say so myself) cable out of half of an old VGA cable, three of the 'sleeves' / female connectors contained, in abundance, in every female D-sub connector, and a few bits of heat-shrink (see https://media.decarchive.org/DEC/VAX/VAXstation%204000-VLC/IMG_3941.jpg for a photo of this cable from an albeit sub-optimal angle). The resulting connections were surprisingly stable, however, were I to make another one, I'd replace the grounding alligator clip with a lug that can be screwed onto one of retaining nuts next to the VLC's 3W3 connector, and use longer bits of heat-shrink to fully insulate the outside of the RGB connectors... And just FYI, even as shown, the video quality was more than adequate (considering the resolution of the VLC's LCG framebuffer), however, I suppose one could always attach a shielded DA15 shell to provide a bit of extra noise suppression (as well as mechanical protection). Hope this helps, Peter

5 years, 1 month

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PDP-8/I Negative-bus termination

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> > Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 00:03:05 -0700 > From: Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com> > Subject: PDP-8/I Negative-bus termination > > Hey all -- > > Until this point I've never had any peripherals for my negibus systems > (apart from teletypes), and it occurs to me that I have no idea if the bus > needs to be terminated (and if so, with what). There are 6 slots in the > RF08 backplane (D01-D06) for daisy-chaining to the next device, which is > where I assume they'd go; the RF08 manual does not make it clear what this > looks like or if it's actually required, and I've gone through the > available PDP-8/I docs and I'm still at a loss. > > Can anyone with negibus experience point me in the right direction? > > Thanks, > Josh > The DEC Field Service Technical Manual has some notes on bus termination. It says: Termination is required on I/O cables longer than 20 ft., and may be desirable on shorter cables. For negative bus, use 220 Ohm shunt resistors to ground on IOP 1, IOP 2, IOP 4, BTS 1, BTS 3 and Initialize. No special termination module exists for the negative bus. -- Michael Thompson

5 years, 1 month

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Motor generator

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> > Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 13:20:59 +0100 > From: <dave.g4ugm at gmail.com> > Subject: RE: Motor generator > > We had a Motor/Generator for our Honeywell L66. Not sure it was because it > wanted US voltages or just for a clean supply > Dave > I also worked on a Honeywell L66 that had two motor-generators. We used one at a time, and swapped the operational one each month. They cleaned up the noise in the incoming 208VAC 3-phase power, and the really heavy flywheel provided a little ride through for short term power drop outs. -- Michael Thompson

5 years, 1 month

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400 Hz

by erik＠baigar.de

..not to forget, that the 400Hz equipment was readily available from powering aircraft on the ground before the engines take over. So although not cheap, they where cheaper than a custom design at an arbitrary new frequency

5 years, 1 month

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400 Hz

by erik＠baigar.de

> Incidentally, a way to get three phase power at a frequency of your > choice is to use a "variable frequency drive". Please be careful with this! Have quite some experience in building three phase inverters from such small boxes for my various avionics projects. (1) The normal ones rectify the mains voltage (in EU this gives around 320V DC) and from this make PWM outputs on three lines. Yes, you can enter voltage and frequency (sometimes even more than 400Hz) digitally, but the outputs are ALWAYS PWM switching between 0V and 320V in the EU. Consequence: If you rectify these outputs you will get back your 320V, completely independent of your settings! You need to use a device called Sinus-Filter, i.e. a low pass using caps and Ls to smooth out and get rid of the PWM - only than you get the correct three phase. (2) The small boxes are only for motors (inductive loads). Connecting someting else (does not matter whether three phase or not) which e.g. has got EMC filters at the input containing caps, the relatively high frequency (e.g. 16kHz, often selectable) will easily toast them leading to a short. (3) The PWM-boxes do not isolate from mains, so you will have pretty high voltages at the PWM outputs with high frequencies which can be a challenge for isolations - so even if you set the inveter to 110V only, but power it >from 240Vmains, the isolation of your device needs to handle the full 320V! My biggest inverter based on such a small PWM motor drive inverter is described in my blog (including schematics)... http://www.baigar.de/TornadoComputerUnit/TimeLine.html#inverter1500 (4) DO NOT use these three phase boxes connecting one output and one input pin to your device thinking that this is a single phase output. Creating a "neutral" line at the output of such an inverter can be done, but it requires additional components and than you can use it as single phase device: Here I used a special transfomer after the Sinus filter with input in triangle and output in star configurations. So I get neutral PLUS insulation to mains... Good luck!

5 years, 1 month

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400 Hz

by erik＠baigar.de

..not to forget, that the 400Hz equipment was readily available from powering aircraft on the ground before the engines take over. So although not cheap, they where cheaper than a custom design at an arbitrary new frequency

5 years, 1 month

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PDP-8/I Negative-bus termination

by derschjo＠gmail.com

Hey all -- I cabled up the RF08 to my 8/I this evening and it's showing some very faint signs of life -- a DIML instruction appears to do the right thing. That's about it. Until this point I've never had any peripherals for my negibus systems (apart from teletypes), and it occurs to me that I have no idea if the bus needs to be terminated (and if so, with what). There are 6 slots in the RF08 backplane (D01-D06) for daisy-chaining to the next device, which is where I assume they'd go; the RF08 manual does not make it clear what this looks like or if it's actually required, and I've gone through the available PDP-8/I docs and I'm still at a loss. Can anyone with negibus experience point me in the right direction? Thanks, Josh

5 years, 1 month

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IBM 4700 question

by h.j.stegeman＠hccnet.nl

Hi, Does anyone known which processor IBM used in the IBM 4701 ? Branch Controller (8? floppy disc) ? Regards Henk

5 years, 1 month

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General Instruments Capacitive Keyboard Encoder

by pbirkel＠gmail.com

I'm currently reverse-engineering an AMPEX keyboard that uses capacitive key switches. The basic design employs a GI encoder coupled to an 8039 MCU supplemented by a 2K EPROM and 74LS373 (used to latch the ROM address set >from Port A while Port A is then used to read data back from the ROM). The 8039 MCU drives a bit-banged serial interface. The PCB identifies itself as AMPEX on the coper foil, although the key switch mounting-plate actually has a "General Instruments Quality Accepted" sticker. The EPROM is labeled "3512663-03 Copyright 1983 AMPEX CORP". The GI encoder is a DIP-40 labeled as "321239007 M2406-054-02 GI 8233 CBU TAIWAN". I seek technical documentation for this IC. It evidently is not a relabeled simple variant of the documented AY-3-4592 as it does not multiplex the input side of the matrix (sense lines), there are fewer output data lines, and the power pins are non-standard (Vcc = pin 37; GND = pin 16). Reverse engineering identifies this M2406-054-02 as supporting an 8 column by 16 row (3 unused in my case) matrix plus 8 output data lines. I can identify analogs of several pins on the AY-3-4592. My interpretation of the pin uses is that the necessary key-scanning behavior is generated using the 8039 ALE line (pin 11) as the encoder clock input. Proper documentation for this IC would be nice to come by! Pointers and suggestions appreciated. Thank you, paul

5 years, 1 month

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That VAXStation4000vlc 3W3 video connector

by athornton＠gmail.com

I assume it would be way too much to hope that HD BNC would fit it? Does anyone have a pointer to the actual physical dimensions of the itty-bitty BNC-ish connector in the video port of the VAXStation4000vlc? If I can get red, green, and blue out (assuming since there are only 3 connectors it's sync-on-green) I can put together a sync splitter and turn it into VGA. I have at least one decent multisync VGA monitor still, although none with the RGB BNC inputs. Adam

5 years, 1 month

10
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IBM 1410 FPGA Implementation Update - new github repository

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> > Date: Sun, 2 May 2021 15:38:33 -0500 > From: Jay Jaeger <cube1 at charter.net> > Subject: IBM 1410 FPGA Implementation Update - new github repository > Message-ID: <68c06711-e563-f1bf-8abc-090793bed752 at charter.net> > > The last 12 months I have been pretty busy working on my 1410 in FPGA > project, and there is now more to share, though I have not done much > actual work since February - been too busy playing with other "toys". 8D > > JRJ > The RICM has a 1401 control panel. It would be pretty cool to mount your FPGA to the back of it and get it to blink the lights the right way. https://www.ricomputermuseum.org/Home/interesting_computer_items/ibm-contro… -- Michael Thompson

5 years, 1 month

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920M - and also the Argus 200 / 700

by erik＠baigar.de

Hi Jos! > in the UK around 1960 the Argus 200 was developed to control the Bristol > Bloodhound anti-aircraft rocket. This computer was one of the very first > transistor-based control computers. Absolutely - in these days Ferranti and Elliott where competitors on the European market for defecne computing! Very funny, that they later merged and today the legacy of both is distributed in the BAe and Leonardo businesses ;-) There are quite interesting stories, on occasions when the two had to cooperate before merging and in the ELDO project mentioned in my video, the computer was from Elliotts whereas the inertial sensor was from Ferranti (https://youtu.be/v-gF5g0nnoE?t=363). > In Switzerland the Bloodhound was on duty?? until 1999 ! One of the sites, > once top secret,?? is now a museum, and well worth a visit. > Check out https://www.museums.ch/org/de/Bloodhound-Lenkwaffenstellung Definitively worth a visit! I am also into the Ferranti navigation systems >from the 1970ties (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EQqfxiGgd8) and since years I am trying to find out, what architecture its 32 bit computer is. Here I booked an extensive special tour and the team on mount Gubel organized some experts to join the tour - although I learned that the INS computer is not related to the Argus series, the visit was AMAZING! Also great there to see the technology of the almost Mach3 missile from the 1950ties. Erik.

5 years, 1 month

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RS64 on a PDP-8?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

Is there a controller to attach an RS64 disk to a PDP-8? The only controller for the RS64I can find is the UNIBUS RC11. Thanks. Noel

5 years, 1 month

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Cipher C995 manuals

by drb＠msu.edu

I have a recalcitrant Cipher C995 9track drive. Does anyone have manuals for this thing? It seems to be enough different from the M990 to matter. Thanks, De

5 years, 1 month

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Sprague 2X.1-1000 filter capacitors and 854-B power control assembly

by ccth6600＠gmail.com

Unfortunately once again I am having trouble with Sprague 2X.1-1000 filter capacitors. The two filter caps on a Lab-8/e rack's 854-B power control assembly appear to occasionally leak to ground more than the 30 mA tolerated by my RCD. Mostly it trips the RCD when I power off the system, but sometimes it even trips the RCD with the system powered off. One of the two filter caps is permanently connected across mains power and earth coming from the cable (i.e. it is before the power switch). The exact same filter caps were also used inside the LAB-8/e computer?s power supply. Early on I replaced these with a small PCB with a bunch of male spade connectors and two Y class safety caps. The PCB was designed to replace two of the Sprague filter caps in the side-by-side configuration used inside the LAB-8/e?s power supply where it is also hidden from view. The PCB was designed by Malcolm Macleod in Melbourne/Australia who hit the same problem. I got the PCB manufactured in China from his design. The 854-B power control assembly has the two Sprague filter caps sitting on either end of the assembly ? far from each other. Also the can of the capacitors is exposed at the back and clearly visible so even a newly designed PCB with a single set of safety caps wouldn?t look great and also wouldn?t be stable because there are only two mounting holes. I cannot think of a neat solution to resolve this. I could try to find an electrician willing to wire me a non-RCD protected socket into my study, but I can?t quite warm to that idea. The RCD is an important safety feature. By law now all houses are required to have their AC wiring protected by 30 mA RCD circuit breakers so I likely would have to do this myself. The other option would be to make or buy two terminal blocks with male spade connectors and connect the female spade connectors to those rather than the Sprague connectors. I could then also wire in the 2 Y class safety caps or even forego the filtering. It would mean drilling new holes into the power control assembly. Chuck(G) in the vcfed DEC forum suggested pulling apart the old "bathtub" capacitors and replacing their guts with modern safety caps. The caps contain toxic and carcinogenic PCBs so I am less than enthusiastic about that idea. The capacitor's metal can is soldered together so trying to desolder it would heat the mineral oil containing the PCBs which would make them even more harmful. There is no point in trying to hunt for ?new? Sprague 2X.1-1000 because they would all be ancient and have the same leakage problem. Any thoughts, ideas or suggestions? Best regards Tom Hunter

5 years, 1 month

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IBM 1410 FPGA Implementation Update - new github repository

by cube1＠charter.net

The last 12 months I have been pretty busy working on my 1410 in FPGA project, and there is now more to share, though I have not done much actual work since February - been too busy playing with other "toys". 8D First, I finished working through all of the IBM 1410 and IBM 1415 Automated Logic Diagrams - generating VHDL and testing the results with test benches. [Note that this includes the built-in 1401 compatibility mode, activated at the flip of a switch.] That took most of 2020. So, the CPU generation in VHDL is now more or less complete, and I added a hand coded memory module for memory, as core is kind of hard to find on an FPGA development board. ;) I am currently using a Digilent Nexys 4, but I think it might have even fit on a Nexys 2 - there is plenty of room to spare, and there isn't anything in the VHDL aside from, maybe, the memory implementation (though even that is pretty generic VHDL). With this the CPU runs, at the very least, Unconditional branch (Jump), Halt, NOP and Set Word Mark instructions seemingly correctly - I haven't tried any others. Somewhat surprisingly, aside from issues with the hand coded VHDL in triggers and the need to communicate pins tied to logic one or zero, the auto-generated VHDL works untouched. I have updated the github repository for the C# database application that generates the VHDL from time to time (and which includes the complete database) at http://github.com/cube1us/IBM1410SMS There is now a *new* repository, http://github.com/cube1us/IBM1410FPGA which holds the generated VHDL, some hand coded VHDL modules for certain SMS cards (typically for triggers, for example), the console and test benches I used along the way, and VHDL "Integration Tests" which are designed to be loaded onto the board - the current one being IntegrationTest3. There will be, eventually, a third repository which will contain the C# code that "hosts" the IBM 1410 console and peripherals, communicating with the FPGA over a high speed serial over USB connection. I figured out that this should allow me to emulate peripherals without having to resort to sending data over Ethernet, SPI, I2C or the like. I have just started that, so it really isn't at a point that there is much to share. Once I have a console working (which will require a re-do of the console VHDL implementation, which right now communicates in ASCII, but should probably be using BCD), I should be able to pre-load into memory some of the CPU diagnostics, by loading a diagnostic routine into either my 1410 simulator (http://github.com/cube1us/1410), or Richard Cornwell's emulator in SimH and then taking a snapshot of "core" to pre-load into the FPGA. At that point I expect I will be able to test the CPU pretty thoroughly. I hope and expect that will happen this year sometime. Unfortunately, I do not have the ALDs (Automated Logic Diagrams) for the IBM 1414 I/O Synchronizers, but I do have the Instruction Logic Diagrams which should allow me to code VHDL to emulate card, tape and maybe eventually even disk functions, so those might take a while. If anyone cares.... ;) JRJ

5 years, 1 month

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Looking for the person I sold an eMachines eOne to at the VCF Swap Meet on April 24

by tony.aiuto＠gmail.com

*I found more related goodies you can have for the shipping. You can reply direct to me or on this thread.*

5 years, 1 month

2
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DEC PDP-11/45 backplane +5 ECO

by fritzm＠fritzm.org

Hi Josh, Among the pictures linked from your message about the H742a parts, there is one picture of you backplane. I have been looking for some time for information about the following 11/45 ECO: > KB11-00001 CODE: D May-72 [ECO] > > Problem: Etch carrying +5V current from Mate-n-Lock pins to backpanel pins is not heavy enough to carry required current. Correction: Run 24AWG wire in parallel with etch on panels which already have Mat-n-Lock assembly installed. Increase thickness of conductor with solder bead if Mate-n-Lock assembly not installed. PDP-11/45 system serial number 101 and later. The wiring arrangements at the top of your backplane look to be a bit different from mine, and I believe you may have this ECO implemented. While you have your backplane out, could I ask that you take some closeups around the Mate-n-Locks along the top? I'd be very interested to see the board traces and the details of the red bus wiring there. Pictures of the toasted 11/45 suggest that the original machine had the older power wiring scheme (distribution panel mounted vertically on back of cabinet instead of horizontally at top of cabinet, etc.) although your KB11A serial number badge is >2000, which is curious...

5 years, 1 month

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DEC RF08/RS08 module placement info

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

I sent Josh pictures of the complete RF08/RS08 that John Wilson donated to the RICM. I will send detailed pictures of the RS08<->RF08 cables next week. -- Michael Thompson

5 years, 1 month

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Bounces

by binarydinosaurs＠gmail.com

Hi folks, Did anyone else get an email about excessive bounces today? I?ve not changed anything hosting wise forever so this is a bit weird. Cheers, -- Adrian Graham Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest private home computer collection? t: @binarydinosaurs f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk

5 years, 1 month

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DEC RF08/RS08 module placement info

by derschjo＠gmail.com

Hi all -- In addition to the 11/45 project I'm also working on restoring an RF08/RS08 fixed head disk/controller (in the vain hopes of one day running TSS/8 on my PDP-8/I). I have the power supply repaired and running and I'm getting ready to power the logic up (the disc itself will be a project all its own, once it arrives). I'd like to double-check that all the flip chips are in their right places; I have no cause to think they've been shuffled around but I want to be sure. The engineering docs have detailed schematics but no placement chart for the modules themselves. Given enough time with the schematics I could derive this chart but I'm saving that as a last resort. So, two possibilities here: 1) Does anyone know of a document I've overlooked that includes module placement? 2) Can someone with an RF08 and/or RS08 take a few detailed pictures of the logic (from the handle side, of course) so I can compare? (Note: the available RF08/RS08 pictures on the 'net are of the unit currently in my possession, so are not useful in this regard!) Thanks! - Josh

5 years, 1 month

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Free assorted manuals

by geniibuntu＠gmail.com

Spring cleaning. Will be recycled otherwise. While most are probably not of interest to this group it's possible someone may want the SCSI related items like the ES-1000C flatbed scanner manual or Yamaha CRW8424SX manual or the Adaptec stuff. I'm in downtown Toronto, Canada. On Freenode IRC my nick is genii imgur gallery of the stuff https://imgur.com/a/USejVEv -- "..we are dwarfs astride the shoulders of giants. We master their wisdom and move beyond it. Due to their wisdom we grow wise and are able to say all that we say, but not because we are greater than they." Isaiah di Trani

5 years, 1 month

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DEC PDP-11/45 backplane +5 ECO

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Eric Smith > The KB11-B (original 11/70) and KB11-C (later 11/70) have essentially > the same changes as from the KB11-A to KB11-D Speaking of which, two of the boards that are different in the KB11-D, from the -A, are _identical_ to boards in the KB11-C - the M8123 ROM & ROM control and the M8132 instruction register decode! (The M8123 is also different from the M8133 board in the KB11-B.) Pretty wierd that the -11/45 and -11/70 CPUs share two boards, but true! (The FP11 boards are the same in both, too.) > It sure would be nice to get backplane wirelists for all four (KB11-A, > -B, -C, and -D). ISTR a previous, un-fulfilled request for the -11/70 wirelist, so it's been missing for a while. We _might_ have the -11/45 wirelist: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1145/1145_System_Engineering_Drawing… but it's short (pp. 128-132), so maybe it's not complete)? Two other print sets seem to have the same list: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1145/1145_System_Engineering_Drawing… http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1155/MP00039_1155vol1_Mar76.pdf (pp. 45-49 and pp 131-135 respectively). > Also, I'm looking for a Field Maintenance Print Set for the RH70. Heh. I didn't see it online; the manual: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/CSS-MO-F-5.2-27_RH70_Option_Descrip… is a CSS document, which makes no sense, because the CPU backplane is laid out to have room for four, so it's an integral part of the /70 CPU - so why is it a CSS product? Anyway, the print set listed there seems like it might be a CSS thing, too. I see that the CHM seems to have a set: https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102749003 so maybe Al will take pity on us and scan it! I looked in my /70 print set, and although it contains all sorts of odds and ends (including MJ11 prints - which kind of half makes sense, since that was the only main memory option on early /70's), it doesn't have the RH70. (I didn't see the MJ11 prints on BitSavers, so I was thinking I was going to have to scan them, but on further looking I found them on deramp.com.) Noel

5 years, 1 month

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11/70 system drawing set

by aek＠bitsavers.org

I just uploaded a drawing set that includes KB11-B and C information to http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1170

5 years, 1 month

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DEC PDP-11/45 backplane +5 ECO

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Henk Gooijen > I have the M8120 and 4 M8121 boards (32kW bipolar RAM). It is a bit > weird, but in the 11/55 are also two G114 boards (4kW MOS RAM), IIRC. G114s? Those are the sense/inhibit module from the MM11-U/MJ11. Did you mean G401s? If so, one guess as to what happened there is that the machine used to have two banks of MS11 Fastbus memory, one bipolar, and one MOS, and some of the boards from the MOS bank (the memory control, and maybe some of the matrix boards) got removed? A KB11-[AD] can have two banks of MS11; the only type mixing allowed is that one can be all bipolar, and one all MOS; within each bank they all have to be the same. More here: https://gunkies.org/wiki/MS11_Semiconductor_Memory_System Interesting factoid: the M8110 and M8120 use the same etch. I'm not sure quite what the difference is (the MS11-A MM doesn't say, I couldn't find, and I don't think we have the M8120 engineering drawings, just the M8110); the M8120 has a bunch of ECO wires on it, and maybe there are component changes too. (I don't have an M8110 to compare them directly.) Noel

5 years, 1 month

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DEC LK201-AA removable feet dimensions?

by web＠loomcom.com

Sort of an odd request, but I have some LK201-AA keyboards that have (of course) not got their little black riser feet any more. I don't think they've ever had them while in my possession, in fact. If anyone has one, and has the time and interest, could you do me a big favor and take measurements of them for me? I would like to 3D print some replacements, so getting the outer dimension is the most critical part (though I can always measure the inner dimension of the hole they fit into, too), along with the protrusion of the two clips that fit into the key of the hole on the bottom of the LK201 keyboard. I have good pictures of them, just not dimensions, so I think once I know the size of the critical bits, designing and printing them shouldn't be too difficult. Thanks, -Seth -- Seth Morabito Poulsbo, WA, USA web at loomcom.com

5 years, 1 month

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DEC PDP-11/45 backplane +5 ECO

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> > > On 4/24/21 10:28 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > > Noel > > > > PS: I wonder how many people here have -11/45's? ISTR one other, but > they aren't > > common. The Rhode Island Computer Museum has two. The pair were the interface between fire pull boxes and the 911 dispatch system in Brooklyn, NY. Both have DV11 & DH11 serial controllers. These are capable of the very low baud rates needed to talk to the fire pull boxes. https://www.ricomputermuseum.org/collections-gallery/equipment/dec-pdp-11-45 -- Michael Thompson

5 years, 1 month

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3B2 in Brazil on Facebook

by dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com

Some one appears to have three AT&T 3B2/300 manuals, cables diskettes, sadly in Brazil and has posted some pictures in a Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/vintagecomputerswapmeet/permalink/3954289997 980016/ You can open the link in an incognito, sandboxed, VPNd session and still see the post.. Dave G4UGM

5 years, 1 month

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Is this a new record?

by derschjo＠gmail.com

https://www.ebay.com/itm/164815576309 $9570 for a keyboard. As much as I'd like to find a keyboard for my Lambda's second head, I somehow doubt that's going to happen. And now I think I need to go find a really, really (really) safe place to keep the keyboard I *do* have... - Josh

5 years, 1 month

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Digital DEC 3000

by rob.laz＠ntlworld.com

>//>/Digital DEC 3000 />//>/I have an old DEC 3000 unit that I no longer have time or space for, and />/was wondering what to do with it. />//>/The rear plate shows PE42A-B9, CPU KN17, DEC 3000 600S and the ROM has a />/sticker showing Dec 1989. />//>/I have a video cable but not a suitable monitor so can't fully test it />/but I think it is booting up OK as the diagnostic LED's on the rear show />/11011101 or DD in hex which I think means it has booted OK to console. />//>/It has been running in the past and my last efforts were probably 10+ />/years ago when I installed VMS version 7 with a guest licence. />//>/I also have a few peripherals including a SZ12 disk unit, LK201 />/keyboard, circular mouse and various SCSI and video cables. />//>/It has been stored in my garage which is not totally sealed so it has />/suffered a little corrosion to the rear connectors but it looks recoverable. />//>/All thoughts and opinions welcome. />//>// Hi Rob, I have three DEC 3000 600 machines which don't work with various issues including multiple cache failures, shorted decoupling capacitors and power supply issues. They seem to accumulate more issues each time I get around to looking at them again :-( If you are willing to part out, I would be interested in your system board and I/O board to help me get some of my machines sorted out. I guess you also have a graphics card? I would be interested in that too. You don't say where you are. I am located in Ireland. Regards, Peter Coghlan. I hadn't considered splitting the components but I can see that would be an option and a lot more manageable boxing up smaller parts for the post office. I would really prefer to see the unit go in one piece but will keep it in mind as an option. I am in Cardiff.

5 years, 1 month

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Digital DEC 3000

by rob.laz＠ntlworld.com

I am new to the list so please excuse me for leaving out a few essential elements of my message. ----------------- I am in Cardiff in the UK and would prefer collection of the Digital DEC 3000 unit as it is large and heavy and would not be easy to arrange postage. I am happy to wait for a few weeks/months until covid restrictions are fully lifted and would really like the item to go to someone who appreciates its heritage. ----------------- I have an old DEC 3000 unit that I no longer have time or space for, and was wondering what to do with it. The rear plate shows PE42A-B9, CPU KN17, DEC 3000 600S and the ROM has a sticker showing Dec 1989. I have a video cable but not a suitable monitor so can't fully test it but I think it is booting up OK as the diagnostic LED's on the rear show 11011101 or DD in hex which I think means it has booted OK to console. It has been running in the past and my last efforts were probably 10+ years ago when I installed VMS version 7 with a guest licence. I also have a few peripherals including a SZ12 disk unit, LK201 keyboard, circular mouse and various SCSI and video cables. It has been stored in my garage which is not totally sealed so it has suffered a little corrosion to the rear connectors but it looks recoverable. All thoughts and opinions welcome.

5 years, 1 month

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Digital DEC 3000

by rob.laz＠ntlworld.com

Digital DEC 3000 I have an old DEC 3000 unit that I no longer have time or space for, and was wondering what to do with it. The rear plate shows PE42A-B9, CPU KN17, DEC 3000 600S and the ROM has a sticker showing Dec 1989. I have a video cable but not a suitable monitor so can't fully test it but I think it is booting up OK as the diagnostic LED's on the rear show 11011101 or DD in hex which I think means it has booted OK to console. It has been running in the past and my last efforts were probably 10+ years ago when I installed VMS version 7 with a guest licence. I also have a few peripherals including a SZ12 disk unit, LK201 keyboard, circular mouse and various SCSI and video cables. It has been stored in my garage which is not totally sealed so it has suffered a little corrosion to the rear connectors but it looks recoverable. All thoughts and opinions welcome.

5 years, 1 month

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Looking for IBM 3278 Operator Console

by haydenkilloh＠gmail.com

I'm trying to track down a keyboard to complete a system which is proving quite difficult! Here is the specific unit: https://i.imgur.com/FsG24G3.jpg if anyone happened to have one of these spare or know someone who does please let me know!

5 years, 1 month

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DEC PDP-11/45 backplane +5 ECO

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Fritz Mueller > could I ask that you take some closeups around the Mate-n-Locks along > the top? I'd be very interested to see the board traces and the details > of the red bus wiring there. I had a look at my /45 (a later KB11-D - although I think the backplanes for the -A and -D are identical), and it seems to have heavy red wires attached to the upper row of Mate-n-Lok's that look just like those on Josh's. I'd really want to take pictures of mine (I don't want to take the backplane out - too much work - but I can get decent images with it in, I think) so I can compare them directly, though, not depend on visual memory. Noel PS: I wonder how many people here have -11/45's? ISTR one other, but they aren't common.

5 years, 1 month

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DEC PDP-11/45 backplane +5 ECO

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> I had a look at my /45 ... and it seems to ... look just like those on > Josh's. I'd really want to take pictures of mine .. so I can compare > them directly, though, not depend on visual memory. Yeah, mine (a late /55, actually) has the _exact_ same wires at Josh's. So that's probably the final ECO level. Image here: http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/jpg/1145CPUBackPlane.jpg if you're interested. (Not a great image, but OK; I can try for a better one if there's a need.) > From: Henk Gooijen > Most of the CPU boards in the 11/55 are the same as the ones in the > 11/45 The -11/45, /50 and /55 are all the same CPU (KB11-A or -D), so the same backplane/everything, but differ only if they were sold pre-configured with the MS11 Fastbus memory. And of course some /45's (especially those sold before the introduction of the /50 and /55 as sales options - I have a /45 price list from Sep, 1972 which lists the /45 and /50 but not the /55; and one from Jan, '73 which only lists the /45 :-) were upgraded (possibly after sale, after the /50 and /55 appeared) with MS11 - or possibly some /50's and /55's had the MS11 removed at some point. So the number doesn't mean anything; one has to look at the boards. Noel

5 years, 1 month

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Exidy S-100 Expansion cards questions

by nospam212-cctalk＠yahoo.com

Moving forward on setting up my collection and I was taking a look at an Exidy Sorcerer S-100 Expansion box I had received long ago. I wondered if anyone could help with info on the cards I found inside. The first is clearly a memory card but not familiar with the company. The second is a disk controller and the third is a parallel/rs232 interface. I haven't found any doc on any of them yet. If you have doc or info on the cards or anything else about the expansion box please let me know. Haven't tested or done any more with it yet other than open it up and look around inside. Had this for ages but only now had room to take it out of the box. 1) 64K Static Memory card copyright 1981 Memory Merchant 2) Double Disk controller by Jade Computer (Doesn't seem to match the image on the doc I found on Bitsavers for their Double D controller but suspect it is one) 3) Interfacer II Triple Parallel / RS232 Serial I/O from CompuPro - Godbout Links to pics below. http://www.trailingedge.com/images/ExidyS100-1.jpg http://www.trailingedge.com/images/ExidyS100-2.jpg http://www.trailingedge.com/images/ExidyS100-3.jpg http://www.trailingedge.com/images/ExidyS100-4.jpg http://www.trailingedge.com/images/ExidyS100-5.jpg http://www.trailingedge.com/images/ExidyS100-6.jpg http://www.trailingedge.com/images/ExidyS100-7.jpg http://www.trailingedge.com/images/ExidyS100-8.jpg http://www.trailingedge.com/images/ExidyS100-9.jpg Thanks. David Williams www.trailingedge.com

5 years, 1 month

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hp 9145 capstan replacement

by plamenspam＠afterpeople.com

Hello, Did anyone change the hp 9145 streamer capstan ? What parts do you use? Best regards, Plamen

5 years, 1 month

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DEC H742a Power Supplies, for Parts (Seattle)

by derschjo＠gmail.com

Hey all -- I've started stripping down the "fire-sale" PDP-11/45 I picked up in November, in preparation for sanding and repainting the rack and processor chassis. There were two H742a supplies in the rack that I believe are too far gone to be reasonably restored (in particular the heat definitely did a number on at least one of the transformers) and I have a pair of H7420a's ready to take their place. I hate to see things go to waste, though, and even though it's probably pointless -- before I send these off to the scrapyard, I wanted to check to see if anyone here needed any parts. Shipping the whole unit(s) would be pretty expensive, local pickup is an option if you want the whole thing(s). The transformers are a bit toasty but the power supply boards look like they might be usable after a good cleaning and testing. Fans are dead (either melted away entirely or rusted out). I suppose there's not really much else that'd be useful to anyone but I have a compulsion to make sure... Here's a couple of pictures: https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aqb36sqnCIfMpL89R2GtJFrrRqZ1vQ?e=Re3KZr And for fun, here's a bunch of pictures of the unit just prior to the teardown: https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aqb36sqnCIfMpL8-mTCp-NndzDTpbw?e=8aWCl4 (I do think there's a good chance this will run again, the major casualties were the front panel, power supplies, and wiring harness. I have replacements for the first two, and the third is just a matter of taking the time to build a new one. The boards cleaned up nicely and there's no real damage to the processor backplane, amazingly.) - Josh

5 years, 1 month

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Interesting Exidy peripheral

by nospam212-cctalk＠yahoo.com

Earlier I'd found a box with a speaker, what looked like a volume control and maybe a headphone jack with a ribbon cable going to a DB-25 connector. Thought it might be for playing sounds from the system. Appears to be partly right. While digging through various Exidy doc on Bitsavers I came across a manual for a Cognivox Speech Recongnition and Voice Response Peripheral by a company called Voicetek. The images in the manual match the box itself. What I thought was a headphone jack is for a mic and it appears to plug into the parallel port in the expansion unit. I haven't found any of the software that the manual says ships with it though I'm still finding parts of this system packed away in various boxes so might find it yet. I know it is probably a huge long shot but if anyone else has software or anything else about this peripheral, please drop me a line. David Williams www.trailingedge.com

5 years, 1 month

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Need a BASIC expert

by cc＠informatik.uni-stuttgart.de

Hi, I'm trying to find out if the BASIC dialect that was available for the MINCAL computers (aboutn 1971) was something derived from another "system" or whether it was an own dialect. Some characteristic instructions that I can't find somewhere else are: - Formatted output with PRINT FOR(<FORTRAN like description>) Example: PRINT FOR(F5.0)500.1 - Computed GOTO with GOTO <expression> OF n1,n2,... Example: GOTO A+B+1 OF 100,20,50 - Presence of "DEF FN", lack of RESTORE for DATA/READ constructs. This BASIC must have been around 1970-1972. Christian

5 years, 1 month

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hp 9145 capstan replacement

by cclist＠sydex.com

On 4/23/21 10:33 AM, Rik Bos wrote: > That would not work the capstans of the 9144/45 have much larger > diameter. Those drives use DC600HC tapes not a QIC tape. How do you figure that? I've got a DC600HC cart here and it's the same dimensions as a standard DC600A cartridge--it is Iotamat preformatted, without the usual optical sense stuff. It was used on a number of QIC (yes, it's quarter-inch) drives, such as the Kennedy 9455 and the ADIC 32-track drives. As far as the capstan being too large, I suspect you may underestimate the "stretchiness" of silicone hose. Somewhere, I posted a photo if an Archive 2060S drive with a red hose replacement capstan. The hose comes in larger sizes, regardless. I still need to refurb the capstan on my 3M DCD-01 drive, but it's been too long since I've run into any 2-track DC300 tapes, so it's not a priority. In any case, the suggestion is offered for whatever value one can gain >from it. --Chuck

5 years, 1 month

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ISO intel iPDS-100 w/8085 pod (UK)

by binarydinosaurs＠gmail.com

Hi folks, I just got pipped on an auction for one of these last night, clearly someone needed it more than me and I hope it was for a real usage reason and not just to add to their collection of MDS-related machines. I?ve been looking for an 8085 ICE for ages now to help troubleshoot my STC Executel phone systems so this seemed like an ideal opportunity to get my hands on one but hey, that?s how auctions work. This one also has an external 37 pin floppy interface so I was hoping I could hook up an 8? drive to be able to read the Executel source floppy disks I have. Does anyone have one in the UK they don?t need/taking up too much space etc? This weekend I?ll be investigating getting a Greaseweazle running with an 8? drive now that I have all the components to power my Shugart 860. (I now await comments along the lines of ?what do you need an ICE for when you have a DMM, scope and LA - easy answer: the whole environment was designed on an MDS80 so it would be fun) Cheers, -- Adrian Graham Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest private home computer collection? t: @binarydinosaurs f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk

5 years, 1 month

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FTAG: AlphaServer DS15, Sun T5140, Sun Blade 10, HP Proliant DL380 G7, VT220 [London, UK]

by ullbeking＠andrewnesbit.org

Hello all again, With a heavy heart I need to find a new home for the following beautiful hardware: - AlphaServer DS15 server - Sun SPARC Enterprise T5140 1U rack server - Sun Blade 10 mini tower - HP Proliant DL380 G7 2U rack server - DEC VT220 with screen, keyboard, and various adapter cables Please note that the Sun T5140 and HP DL380 are deep (700mm for purposes of installation in a rack). I'm starting a new job next week and intend to focus on that and my family. I've stopped working on various projects and I am vacating my studio workshop, so I have a lot of things to give away or sell. The above items are all FREE FOR COLLECTION ONLY (a car will be fine to transport the above items). I am located in London, UK. Post code is N15 4QL (Seven Sisters and Tottenham Hale) in Haringey, London. Kind regards, Andrew

5 years, 1 month

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PDP 11/23 for sale on Ebay

by technoid6502＠gmail.com

There's a nice, working PDP 11/23 with 20 meg hdd and 1meg (!!) of ram, with terminal screens indicating full operation. The asking price is $900.00, but I imagine the fellow might negotiate. Shipping is gonna be a fair penny. best, Jeff

5 years, 1 month

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Apple 3.5" drive issue

by nospam212-cctalk＠yahoo.com

Moved recently and finally have space to set up the collection and play with it. I've set up my Apple IIgs and a Macintosh Plus and in testing they are still working but while doing so I've noticed an issue with the 3.5" drives. I have an Apple Superdrive and 4 Apple 3.5 Drives on the IIgs and where they all work as far as reading and writing, only the Superdrive can actually eject the disks. The Mac Plus has the internal drive and an external Apple 800K drive, both of which work except not being able to eject disks either. So out of 7 drives, I have one that doesn't need a paperclip to eject the disk. Haven't opened them up to look at them yet, wanted to see if this is common and suggestions on possible causes to check. Thanks. David Williams www.trailingedge.com

5 years, 1 month

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