- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

Archiving data has as many definitions as there are people interested in it. At work we talk about archiving x-ray images on film for 7 years for adults and 25 years for children. Physical loss of the data is more of a problem than deterioration of the media. I have data on 12" optical packs that are 5 years old and there are conversion/data retrieval services that will retrieve my data but the cost is prohibitive. If I tell the powers in charge (PIC) that it will cost them $5 to retrieve an image that was created for $1 they think I am crazy. However if there is a lawyer making the request and the risk is $10,000,000 then the PIC are happy to pay. Currently we may have for a single patient's cardiac angiography study about 1,000 35mm images, about 1 GB. The system now uses CDROM-RW and puts the images all on 1 CD using JPEG compression, they swear it will last 25 years. I guess we will wait and see. The big issue for magnetic media archival is that it is an ongoing process with very few retrievals ever actually requested. If every 5 years I need to refresh my magnetic data then I have a reoccurring cost. This seems to be what many DP operations are planning. If I ask for lots of dollars for saving old data most organizations will laugh. I'll bet when reality or a lawsuit hits they will hope to beg forgiveness for loosing the data. Most media storage lifetimes are extrapolated from accelerated testing and assume optimal humidity and temperature. If you want proven lifetimes then there are only several known/proven methods. I know the government and the Mormons, two separate entities, are storing data etched on iridium substrates in human readable form. They talk about lifetimes of 1,000's of years. Other examples are stone tablets, photographic film, and paper. I think that we can eliminate stone tablets for storing magnetic data. Paper seems to be cumbersome and is fairly fragile. That leaves photographic methods. Photographic images from the Civil War still exist. Source code or HEX dumps on photographic media may be the best way. Maybe photographic film quality "paper tape" is the answer. The other solution may be photographic film floppy disks. I'd better get right off to my patent attorney and file. I've started babbling. Mike

26 years, 1 month

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VAX-11? and some C64 stuff

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>On May 31, Jason McBrien wrote: >> First, there was the PDP/8 which came out in the sixties. It was a largish >> "Minicomputer" meaning it didn't fill a room like the IBM 360's, but you >> couldn't exactly toss it in a closet either. Then came the PDP/11, which was >> a bit smaller and 16-Bit in the seventies. Then came the VAX 11/750, >> Digital's first 32-Bit mainframe, in the late seventies/early eighties, and >> dominated the minicomputer market for quite a while. The first VAXes where >> large cabinet sized affairs, needing wacky 380V power mains and hard drives >> the size of a decent size car transmission. Then came the VAXStation 2000, >> which had almost all the power of a VAX 11/750 in a case the size of a >> largish shoebox. The home minicomputer was born. Through the eighties DEC >> still made the huge company-running VAX 7000's, 8000's, 9000's, and 10000's, >> but also made smaller workstation-style counterparts, the VAX 3100's, >> 4000's, MicroVAXes, VAXStations, and VAX-Servers. You can pick up a 3100 or >> 2000 for under $50 if you look hard. 4000's are nicer and run upwards $100. By 1971 a PDP-8 did fit nicely in a closet, small one at that. The VAX lineup was: 1978 1988 780----750---730---microvax-I---MicrovaxII---MV2000 None of the above require 380V 3phase your thinking of the 8650 and others. The 780 did require three phase but was not a bad deal and the 750 and 730 were 110V power. Allison

26 years, 1 month

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Finds

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>On May 31, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> Of course since I have a 60Mhz RS/6000 on my desk at work and refuse to >> give it up for a state of the art single or dual processor PC my opinions >> of acceptable speed might be a little outside the norm :^) Can it connect to the net and run a real IP stack (of course!). Do it run the require apps? Good enough. The criteria is does it do what I require of it, adaquately fast, with acceptable conectivity/compatability? Then again I run DOS, NT(on 486s) and VMS. Allison

26 years, 1 month

1
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VAX-11? and some C64 stuff

by rexstout＠uswest.net

What fun! I got a book called "VAX-11 Assembly Language Programming." What's a VAX-11? And I also ended up with yet another printer, an older wedge-shaped C-64 with a 1541 drive, and lots of programming stuff for the C64. HesMon, HesKit, Pascal, Forth, and a pile of assembly stuff. Eventually I get around to putting it all together and try to program it, but right now I don't have the room or the time(damn! college is hard...). -- /--------------------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ rexstout(a)uswest.net | | list admin for orham and ham-mac at www.qth.net | | KD7BCY pdxham at www.egroups.com | \--------------------------------------------------/

26 years, 1 month

7
6
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VAX-11? and some C64 stuff

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On May 31, healyzh(a)aracnet.com wrote: > > The good thing, though, about using "original" DEC monitors on > > machines like those is that you can get a wonderfully HUGE tube with a > > deliriously tight dot pitch and fabulous video quality for next to > > nothing because they're fixed-frequency. > > > > The PeeCee world's inability to develop video systems that don't > > require changing sync rates every time the wind blows has afforded the > > Real Workstation world a wonderful advantage...a plethora of gorgeous, > > huge monitors that can be had for a song. :-) > > BUT, if you're short on Desktop space, one really nice 21" multisync monitor > is your best friend. Well, that, X-Windows, and a digital KVM switch. > Remember all those beautiful big monitors take up a lot of space, generate a > lot of heat, and weigh a lot. True...which is why I run *one* machine with a framebuffer...the one I sit in front of. Heavy use of telnet and the DISPLAY environment variable are my friends. :-) I mean, realistically...I'm ONE person, I sit in ONE chair at a time, I drink from ONE can of Mountain Dew at a time...why do I need more than one video system at a time? -Dave McGuire

26 years, 1 month

1
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OSI C4P MF floppy drive - troubleshooting

by PasserM＠umkc.edu

In addition to Mr. Willig's C1P (thanks!), I now have a C4P MF with which I am having floppy troubles. When I was a kid, I couldn't afford disk drives, so I'm not entirely sure what to do. - The machine works with a known good drive (an MPI from the C1P MF). However, it does not work with either of its own two drives. - All the power supplies are good--they all work with the known good C1P MF's drive. - When I answer "D" to "H/D/M?", the drive starts to step, then just stops. This happens with either drive (strapped to DS0), and with either just one or both drives connected. Are there some obvious things that I should try? I know I'm going to come off as a Philistine to some here, but are there any modern drives I can use (e.g. 360K double sided drives)? Does anyone know the secrets of the drive jumpers? (The C4P MF's drives have no indication of manufacturer anywhere visible.) I appreciate any help or advice you can share--thanks! --Michael Passer

26 years, 1 month

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OT: Archiving data (LONG)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> I think mike was talking about storing data on photographic film, like >> many of the microfiche data storage systems already in use, but intended >> for direct computer reading. Many films will resolve 100 line pairs >> per millimeter; this directly translates to about 3.2 MBytes per >> square inch. >Yes, but how long can we expect the film to last? Decades, if processed sloppily, or centuries, if processed archivally. The availability and maintainability of the readout systems becomes, IMHO, the deciding factor. If the data is stored as human-readable text this isn't so much a problem, until languages change or are forgotten at least. Tim.

26 years, 1 month

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Microfische readers available

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

With all this talk of archival media, I'm reminded that I have a couple of fische readers that I'd like move out (I aquired a double reader as an upgrade). They are a pair of Bell+Howell ABR-917s. I have copies of the operation manual to go with them. The copyright date is 1989. Any takers? Given the size and fragility, pick-ups are preferred over shipping. Shipping would be based on cost of packing materials and actual UPS charges (not MBX Etc) from Columbus, OH (43201). -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd(a)iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/

26 years, 1 month

1
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IBM I/O Selectric/Posting Machine (Was RE: Atari 800 keyboards)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> That's one of the PRACTICAL uses of a keyboard actuator! > Never mind trying to use a Selectric as a printer, the REAL use of a > Dynatyper or KGS-80 is for copying megabytes of text to exercise a > keyboard. God, the dynatyper, I remember that... On a related note, I have an old I/O Selectric, not the generalized model, but one that appears to have been a teller terminal of some kind. Perhaps it was even used by a vehicle license branch. Anyway, I never could get it to function with the IBM controller that came with it (which I think put out EBCDIC), but it also came with an aftermarket controller (which I think put out ASCII). If anyone has been searching high and low for one of these, I'd probably let go of it for the right price or trade. Shipping will be a killer, tho; it's very heavy. -doug q

26 years, 1 month

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OT: Archiving data (LONG)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> >Mylar punched paper tape has a VERY long lifetime and is even human > >readable (well sorta ;)). > > What ever happened to the really high density laser punched > mylar/paper > tape that was being talked about so much a few years ago? Much higher > density than magnetic tape, and very very long archival life. What about that optical tape they used in the movie "Brainstorm"??? Somehow, I always thought they'd bought a failed technology rather than just mock something up. If it wasn't real, it was still as cool as Hell! *fantasy mode off* -doug q

26 years, 1 month

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Defining Disk Image Dump Standard

by paulrsm＠ameritech.net

---------- > From: Richard Erlacher <richard(a)idcomm.com> > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Defining Disk Image Dump Standard > Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 08:28 PM > > If you put floppy diskettes on the shelf and wait 20 years, you'll see > what's left of your archive. This weekend I backed up a set of factory-original Apple II CP/M disks for MicroPro applications (Wordstar, Mailmerge, Spellstar, Datastar, Reportstar, Calcstar, etc). The disks were dated 1979-1982 and there were no errors reading them. I copied them twice: once to another floppy, and once to the Apple II disk archive format (ShrinkIt) on my hard drive. Twenty years is not too long if you use single-sided single density diskettes that cost $10 each (in 1980 dollars!). I don't trust today's ten-cent double-sided high-density diskettes for any long term storage. Paul R. Santa-Maria Ann Arbor, Michigan USA paulrsm(a)ameritech.net

26 years, 1 month

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Defining Disk Image Dump Standard

by rachael_＠gmx.net

>On Sun, May 28, 2000 at 10:38:55PM +0000, Mark wrote: >>The Catweasel disk controller hardware (available as an ISA card for PCs) is >>capable of similar things. However due to its developer (stupidly IMO) >>refusing to release details on how to program it directly, this would be of >>no use; you're stuck with the provided drivers which are apparently pretty >>poor. >I thought he had changed his mind about this? When I first talked to him >he seemed pretty paranoid, but I think he eventually realized that there's >not a big enough market for there to be even a point in stealing his idea >and competing with him (although, I sure hope he's done a PCI version by >the time ISA slots disappear entirely). I certainly remember that he >softened his position about this, but I don't know if that turned into a >manual. Then again, the CW/ISA board comes with no manual anyway! >Anyway I sorted out a lot of the Catweasel/ISA details, from disassembly and >the few sources that were available when I was doing it, it might be enough >to write a driver (I've gotten stuck with my own work on RX01 and RX23 style >drivers, I can read data enough of the time to think I'm really close but it >works less than half the time). >Here's what I've worked out on the I/O ports (default base is 320h): Oh, i might try some of this info I have a catweasel, sitting in my amiga thoug. I would love to find a way to access the wierd 1mb format of the old cbm 8250 drive. Regards Jacob Dahl Pind

26 years, 1 month

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Documenting how old computers were used

by mgregory＠vantageresearch.com

When people receive complete systems (with software, manuals, etc.) do you make any attempt to document the state of the system when you received it? For example, do you record what programs were on the hard drive, what peripherals were included, what the system was used for (either what you were told, or could infer), etc? It seems to me that increasingly, social historians and museums are more interested in _how_ an artifact was used than in the thing itself. But often , especially when I receive multiple examples of the same system, I mix and match parts and programs to suit myself, and lose track of which disk drive came with which CPU, which software was originally installed on each, etc. Information is obviously being lost here. I'd be interested to know what other list members are doing, and how important you think the information being lost is. Regards, Mark Gregory

26 years, 1 month

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Finds

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On May 31, Jason McBrien wrote: > Cheapo bonanza! Grabbed a TRS-80 Model 100 Portable, in the deluxe hard case > with tape drive and accoustic coupler modem for $5! Works like a charm. > Snagged a Network General "The Sniffer" Protocol > Analyzer, looks to be a modified Compaq Portable II, can't find any info on > the sniffer program though (NAI bought out Network General, and doesn't take > kindly to supporting older apps) Also grabbed a stripped RS/6000 320H for > $1, a few odd cables, and a loaded Sun SPARCStation 10 for $25 (It was in > with the SPARC 1's, so someone must have missed the 0, I know I did :) Good > luck hunting! Whoa! I'll triple your money on that SS10! ;) -Dave McGuire

26 years, 1 month

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Defining Disk Image Dump Standard

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>If you're serious about creating an archive. It needs to be permanent, so >it's essentially requisite that the media be write-once. I'd say you're >better off with an OTP EPROM. Hardware to create them is dirt-simple to >create, eraseable/rewritable equivalents are readily available, and even if >the OTP's (very inexpensive, by the way) become scarce, there will still be >rewritables available which can be write protected by removing the VPP or >program pin. Use those and you'll have a real archive. What's more, there >are no mechanical components, nothing to rust, become misaligned, or wear >out. Your kidding? Right? Eproms, have a finite random failure rate and while better in some ways over time you still run the risk of total failure due to: Environment, humidity increases failure rate. Temperature Time Electrical stress. This does not include ESD and circuit mishandling. it still assumes compatable technology (try reading a ECL prom using TTL). Add to this the great number of devices needed to contain said archive your risking the boat in exactly the same way as CDrom or on shorter time spans magnetic media. All of this is seperate from the format that will assure recovery of the data. Myself I'd rather risk even floppies with their known weakness and use redundant recording and added error detection/correction. Even when applied to CDroms this is more viable. Most of all it matters not what you do, what you do it on! It does matter that sufficient data on what was done is available along with the archive to reconstruct not only the data but the systems that archived it (or can recover it!!!). Books work because they can be preserved and copied if they start to decompose and we teach the languges needed to read them. Reminds me of an old theological arguement of how many angles can dance on the head of a pin. Untill we have music, a pin and angles it's simply an exercise with a meaningless outcome to all but the faithful. Allison

26 years, 1 month

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OS/2

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > What I'm saying is that the way is *should* work is: > > > > pointer fault on attempt to execute faulted pointer to > DLL routine > > segment fault on attempt to execute code in unmapped > DLL routine's > > segment > > page fault on attempt to execute code in unmapped DLL > routine's page > > > > And in a really proper OS you'd also get a page fault if > the page map > > containing the PageMapTableEntries weren't currently mapped in (and > > yes you can page out page maps). > > > > And before you point out that segments went away from Win32 let > > me say that too is another fatal flaw with the Windows family of > > OS's. > > Is it just me -- or does this sound like Multics segments? Dang- busted again. :-) -doug q

26 years, 1 month

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Get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? [Was: Re: Notes on repa...

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

<< On Thu, 25 May 2000, Mark Gregory wrote: > On the whole, your reply seemed remarkably snotty and unhelpful, and didn't R. D. Davis replied: < Sorry it appeared that way; it was posted only out of concern for the < preservation of older computers. >> Good grief, man, give us a break! If that note was posted "only out of concern" then why did it include this bit of condescension???: < Don't you mean an I/O card with a short circuit somewhere? If you < don't know what a short circuit is, just ask, or experiment... e.g., < if, for example, you touch the conductors connected to the hot and < ground connectors of a mains socket, and a fuse blows or a circuit < breaker trips, you'll find that you've learned a lot about short < circuits and saving classic computers. ;-) Anyone who reads this list on even a semi-regular basis knows that Mr. Rigdon is well aware of what a short is. Why the put-down? Do you think that you are conducting a high-school electric shop class and talking to a bunch of eighth-graders? Personally, I have never received anything from Joe Rigdon except help when I needed it, which is more than I can say of you. Actually, I'm glad that you blatantly displayed your arrogance in your post to this list. Now everyone has a better idea of who they're dealing with when they see a note signed "R. D. Davis." Glen Goodwin 0/0

26 years, 1 month

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WD1770 help needed

by aek＠spies.com

"In the case of the 1771 and 179x series it's possible to build a really neat circuit I've seen but never tried to match, which uses the /TEST pin on the FDC to cause the device to put out its pulses much faster, allowing them to be accumulated externally in a counter, which, drives a DAC which drives a VCO, which drives the counter as it downcounts the number of steps, thereby slewing the head assembly. This could lead to an interesting but lengthy discussion. " Sounds like an ideal candidate for reimplementation in a single chip microcontroller.

26 years, 1 month

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Defining Disk Image Dump Standard

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>> No, they are not the same. the latter will do DD and the 1773 was single >> density. >> The 1773 was used on TRS80, Icom, and other early systems that were >> softsector. > > >I can assure you that a 1773 is capable of double density operation. I shuffled the 1771 with 1773. Oops, it's easy to do with WD numbering. Allison

26 years, 1 month

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Defining Disk Image Dump Standard

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>However, I've just thought of a better example : I once saw a card for an >Apple ][ containing a 1771 and associated components (and probably a >ROM). It linked to an external box containing 2 8" drives. The official >purpose was to allow an Apple with a Z80 Softcard to read standard SSSD >CP/M disks. But I am _sure_ it could have been used from Apple DOS given >the right software. > >Which means the archive format would have to allow for : > >Apple ][, 16 sector 5.25" GCR-encoded disk >and >Apple ][, 26 sector, 8", FM encoded disk. > >It may be a _very_ unusual format, but a proposed archive format should >be able to handle _anything_. In any case, I would think that 256 >sub-formats for each machine would be plenty, which means this adds _1 >byte_ to the archive size. Not really a problem IMHO. You also forget the trackstar apple][ board for PCxt systems that could use the DOS disks for storage via the PC hardware never minding it's direct interface. To make it work in the end you need some basic documentation and a rosetta stone to assure the results are valid. IE: what are you looking for, how to get it, and did you get that? My solution for myself... use the newest media the system can support or I can easily transfer bulk to. 3.5" floppies are OK. Then figure out what I'm saving. 300 copies of CP/Ms PIP for V2.2 are pointless as are ASM, and all the other common stuff. Also how many copies of worstar for ADM3 do I need? Reducing this is easier on physical storage too. Also using a system that can handle multiple formats or a common one via simple changes to reduce the possible medias used to one helps. In the end it's easy to work backward to say 8" CPM SSSD with an CCS bios if you have a system image, the CCS unique utilities, CPM std utilities, track layout and of couse a system that can write it all on a suitable floppy. this avoids the need to have a real CCS bootable disk as you can make as many as you need. Then again if you have a CCS system with a monitor rom you could down load the peices and use itself to write to disk as native. For example much of my archive is on AMPROLB. It is very copyable Z80 design and as is can format/accept/boot/copy a large number of formats: Both 5.25" and 3.5". My S100 system can bridge the 8" 5.25 and 3.5" rift making a very large number of formats possible in short order. Both system even can read/write dos compatable disks (if it's on the WC cdrom it's auto archived). So softsector is covered {with exceptions like Intel M2fm and RX02 mixed}. Hardsector and vendor unique at the extreme are more difficult, those include: NorthStar* (all) Apple TRS80 Heath DEC RX02 Intel MDS230 series DD controller and others as they did things that were very specific or unique to them and most common hardware is unable to reproduce it. this is where the challenge lies. Allison

26 years, 1 month

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Get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? [Was: Re: N otes on repa...

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> In article > <Pine.LNX.4.10.10005292236130.22871-100000(a)smarty.smart.net>, > R. D. Davis <rdd(a)smart.net> writes > >Is there any way you can retrieve it from the skip if it ends > >up in there? > > Once it is in the skip, anyone taking it away, other than the waste > disposal people, is stealing it. This has already been made clear to > me. Not sure what country you live in, but if you're in the US, then regardless of whatever munincipal laws have been enacted, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled (on multiple occaisions) that refuse is exactly that- stuff that people no longer want. The most recent case that verified this was when suit was brought against a police department who extracted evidence from someone's trash. The police won that suit, and thus your trash does not receive the constitutional protection that other property gets. respectfully submitted, -doug q

26 years, 1 month

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Defining Disk Image Dump Standard

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>>Just as an aside, I recently encountered a datasheet for the WD 1773 FDC >>(similar to 1770/72). Do you know of any systems in which it was used? the 1770/1772 was the 1793+8229+glue on one chip. >Wasn't the 1773 a single-chip version of the 1793, or am I out in Left The 1773 was the earlier single density controller. The 1793 was the later DD and SD controller in nearly the same pinout and basic IO. >Field? The early Tandy controllers that required 12V were based on the >1793, and weren't the later 5Vonly ones based on the 1773? No. The tandy used the 1773 and was wired to provice the -5V and +12V as needed but there were parts that didn't use the -5V (SMC 1773). The 1793 wanted +12 and +5 though there were 5volty only versions later on. Allison

26 years, 1 month

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A moment of silence...

by allain＠panix.com

> At the end of last month, Haltek Electronics, Mountain View, > CA closed their doors... Just read this. > Whatever else happens, I pray that other surplus stores, such > as Weird Stuff and Sharon Industries, aren't next on the chopping > block. -- Bruce Lane Please don't hesitate to post If you hear rumors about any of these threatning to close: Alltronics Computer Literacy Halted Wierd Stuff (other like Surplus) Fry's (Yes, even Fry's) News of such a thing could trigger a long put-off return visit. John A. SValley res. 1987-1990.

26 years, 1 month

1
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Kim-1 analog portions

by paulrsm＠ameritech.net

---------- > From: Ryan K. Brooks <ryan(a)inc.net> > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Kim-1 analog portions > Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 04:41 PM > > There's a lot of analog stuff (mostly large caps from what I can tell) > in the lower left. Is this power supply stuff? Tape stuff? I've > got a Sym-1, and doesn't have nearly as much analog on it. At www.6502.org there are links to KIM (and SYM and AIM) pages where you can find photographs and schematics. I am sure you can figure out exactly what that stuff does. (Don't ask me, I'm a software guy not a hardware guy.) Paul R. Santa-Maria Ann Arbor, Michigan USA paulrsm(a)ameritech.net

26 years, 1 month

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Defining Disk Image Dump Standard

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>I always figured the reason for the restriction was dumb boot PROMs, which >only know how to do programmed I/O to the FDC, and 8" DD comes in too fast >for typical 8-bit CPUs of the time to handle with PIO. If the boot PROM on >a particular system is smart enough to set up DMA, no need to require SD. it's an artifact of how people though the DDmedia was speced by IBM and a lack of knowledge of CP/M boot as everyone just followed the book blindly. Not all required {or even had it!} DMA to do DD, CCS didn't. I'd add that DMA was mostly uncommon save for the more refined or robust systems. Allison

26 years, 1 month

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A moment of silence...

by ss＠allegro.com

Re: > > Halted is still here, it was Haltek that went under. > >Dwight > Is HSC the place across the street from WSW and Fry's? > > Where was Haltek? Haltek is/was in Mountain View, off of Moffet & Terra Bella (?), near 101. Halted is in Sunnyvale (?), near Fry's / Costco / (old)NCA / (old) Weirdstuff Warehouse / Action Surplus. If you're coming "south" on Central Expressway, the first exit after Lawrence Expressway is right in front of the Halted building. Stan Sieler sieler(a)allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler

26 years, 1 month

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Sharp MZ80FB

by hofmanwb＠worldonline.nl

Anyone interested in a Sharp MZ80FB dual floppy drive located in Arnhem Holland? Wim

26 years, 1 month

1
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Defining Disk Image Dump Standard

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>On Tue, 30 May 2000, Richard Erlacher wrote: > >> I never understood why the double density CP/M diskettes were not bootable, >> and why "distribution-standard" diskettes had to be bootable. These are two >> different features, and what's important about the "standard" is not that >> it's bootable but that it's defined so as to be universally readable. That was bogus. The list of system that booted off DD tracks both 8"and 5.25" runs long. The standard for CP/M was 8" SSSD FYI. Also AMPROLB, VT180, DECMATEII/III with CP/M APU, NS* DD/QD systems, SB180, Visual1050, Later Kaypros to name a few with 5.25 DD or QD systems. >> The thing that made 5-1/4" "standard" diskettes unachievable back in the >> CP/M days was that people couldn't let go of the notion that every diskette >> had to be bootable. Frankly, I got fine mileage out of diskettes which >> couldn't be booted, yet I never had a problem booting up. This is bogus as CP/M inferred no difference between bootable system disks and non bootble data disks as the format was the same (they could also be different if desired). Bootable media was only important to single disk systems Even then there were utilities to sidestep this. Lastly for the CP/M case there was no specific requirement to boot from disk at all and the EPSON PX-8 was a commercial example of that. Allison

26 years, 1 month

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Defining Disk Image Dump Standard

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>> Just as an aside, I recently encountered a datasheet for the WD 1773 FDC >> (similar to 1770/72). Do you know of any systems in which it was used? No, they are not the same. the latter will do DD and the 1773 was single density. The 1773 was used on TRS80, Icom, and other early systems that were softsector. Allison

26 years, 1 month

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free: misc cards for HP 9000 / HP 3000 & other

by ss＠allegro.com

Hi, I have the following cards and MUX panels available for free (for non-ebay use, and you pay shipping): HP 3000/9x5 / HP 9000/8x5 boards: 6 port MUX & cable: board 27140-81001?, cable 28659-63002 (I have two of the above boards/cables) (note: they might possibly work in a 9x7 / 8x7) MUX Panels: 40290-60003: RS 232C Panel 25 Pin (8-port) 40299-60002: RS 232C Full Modem (8-port) Note: neither of the above panels work with either of the above boards/cables. (I.e., the cable/plug aren't even the same size.) Nor do I have cables for these panels. HP 30000/37 ("Mighty Mouse") boards: 3000/37 MUX (no cable or panel) 3000/37 1/2 MB memory Misc: SDI PCA DTC Card: 02345-60021 (No, I don't know what it is, either!) AFAIK, all cards were in working order when pulled from equipment. They're at our office in Cupertino, CA. Those that aren't spoken for will probably be offered on eBay in a week or so, but I wanted ClassicCmp readers to get first chance. thanks, Stan Sieler sieler(a)allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler

26 years, 1 month

1
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Unusual weekend find

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

> Nice find! Wow, that weighs more than my Dynabyte 5100 system! > Are those 8" hard drives? Naw... They are smaller that that. I guess they are 5"? > > Could that be renamed MP/M or a variant of MP/M? > The DOCs are far from complete but, it looks almost like a "shell" of some sort for CPM. The syntax for the very limited set of commands is similar to CP/M although not quite the same. Most of the commands seem to be associated with file & data security and device allocation. I'm got some MP/M docs here (promised to Joe Rigdon next time I see him) so I can compare the syntax of the two OSs... Although, I suspect that "MLX" is just a security and multitasking layer for CPM? I tried to load CPM using a variety of other BOOT images but, so far no luck. I'll have to drag out some more disks and see any of them will work. Before I got it, the owner had told me that it was running PC-MOS and I posted an inquiry about that OS to the group. Either he was mistaken about the OS or the system can run that OS as well. When the OS loads, it indicates "SYSTEM RESIDENT", then "BASIC RESIDENT", then the password prompt. I have tried to stop the boot process by pressing ^C, ESC, and every other trick that I know. But, so far no luck. When the process is interrupted, the system just halts... Dang it! > What's needed is a good, inexpensive, portable "clean room box." A > while back, I saw one of these somewhere, but it wasn't something > marketed to hobbyists and I doubt that it was inexpensive. I could tell the platters weren't spinning so, figured I really didn't have anything to loose. In a situation like this, I think the greatest risk is when the heads are "ripped" away from the surface rather than contamination. It took a considerable tug to get the thing loosened up again and I'm kinda supprised a chunk of the surface didn't come off. Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years, 1 month

1
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Unusual weekend find

by allisonp＠world.std.com

First off, use plain text not RTF or other indigestable formats for messages. > Could that be renamed MP/M or a variant of MP/M? > Could be or Turbodos. OSs... Although, I suspect that "MLX" is just a security and multitasking layer for CPM? Only if it were vanilla CPM as MPM was already multitasking. I tried to load CPM using a variety of other BOOT images but, so far no luck. I'll have to drag out some more disks and see any of them will work. Unlike PCs CPM system had no common bios (commonly none in rom!) so a booter from a like machine might boot and run but not work as the IO could be at different addresses or even use different serial devices {8250, 8251 and Z80 SIO were not similar). Allison

26 years, 1 month

1
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Unusual weekend find

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

Picked up an unusual system this weekend and was wondering if anyone could provide some pointers. The system is a "Lasor Computer" (note the spelling) is housed in a desk-sized cabinent and weighs about 300 LBS. I don't know if it's true but, according to the previous owner, whom purchased it new around 1982, there were only about 300 of these systems ever built. This one is serial number 140, has been in storage since 1985, and is in outstanding condition. It not even dusty inside! It has two 8" floppies, 2 10-MB hard drives, and 16 serial ports. All the major components are mounted in 19" trays so, supposedly everything could go in to a standard rack. When I first saw it, I thought it could be a S-100 system because of the card cage, and power supply configuration. (my mouth was really watering) :-) After removing the cards, it's obviously not S-100 but, looks very similar. The cards look to be the same width as S-100 but they are about 3" deeper and there are no regulators on the cards. The CPU for this thing is an Intel 8086 and all the cards are marked "LASOR SYSTEMS". Anyone know what kinda bus this is? According to the DOCs, the system runs "MLX" which stands for "Multiuser Executive". supposedly, it can read CPM formatted disks. I'm not sure if it will boot CPM or execute CPM apps though. When I tried to boot the system, it got a failure on the boot drive so, I had to do some microsurgery. Seems the heads had stuck to the platters and it took a little coaxing to get the platters spinning again. Hopefully, I didn't hurt the platters too much. I finally did get the system to boot OK but, now I'm getting a "Password" prompt. DOH!!! I have contacted the original user and maybe he'll be able to help me out. I'll keep my fingers crossed. If not, I'll see if I can get it too boot with a CPM disk and hack my way past the password prompt. Also in the deal I got 6 - Televideo 950 terminals, and 4 large printers, and about a mile of wiring. All of the printers are in excellent condition with the exception of the chain printer (Teletype model 40). When I plugged that one in, the letters went flying everywhere. Seems the letters are mounted on a large rubber band that had decomposed sling-shotting pieces everywhere ;-) Oh yeah... I spent $50 bucks for the whole truckload. Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years, 1 month

2
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Kim-1 analog portions

by ryan＠inc.net

So, I just lost an auction for a KIM-1... But this prompted me to ask a question: In the picture of the KIM on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=337577016 There's a lot of analog stuff (mostly large caps from what I can tell) in the lower left. Is this power supply stuff? Tape stuff? I've got a Sym-1, and doesn't have nearly as much analog on it. Just curious, Ryan Brooks ryan(a)inc.net

26 years, 1 month

2
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Papertape and Mylar variant

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Somewhere I have a tape fragment, not from a missile but from some game code. > I think this tape was not fan folded but rolled for storage. Right-o... teletypes with the reader/punch used rolls of paper tape. I have a copy of DEC Monopoly on papertape that I punched myself, as well as a copy of Intel's INTERP-80 (8080a simulator) and a Star Trek game called BIGMES (from an HP 2000). At IU, we had a CDC6600 with an online highspeed punch, and I have a couple of tapes I punched on that, as well as what was left on the roll. I'm not sure if the fanfold method came about for ease of mailing or not; eventually, there were readers available that had "bins" instead of reels, and you could load either fanfold or roll tape in the bins. -doug q

26 years, 1 month

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Defining Disk Image Dump Standard

by rachael_＠gmx.net

>On Fri, 26 May 2000 Vintage Computer GAWD! wrote: >> On Fri, 26 May 2000, John Foust wrote: >> >> > Below is the section from the manual that describes their >> > file format. >> > >> > Each sector written to the file is optionally preceded by an >> > 8-byte header record of the following form: >> > >> > >> > +------+------+------+------+------+------+----------+ >> > | ACYL | ASID | LCYL | LSID | LSEC | LLEN | COUNT | >> > +------+------+------+------+------+------+----------+ >> > >> > ACYL Actual cylinder, 1 byte >> > ASID Actual side, 1 byte >> > LCYL Logical cylinder; cylinder as read, 1 byte >> > LSID Logical side; or side as read, 1 byte >> > LSEC Sector number as read, 1 byte >> > LLEN Length code as read, 1 byte >> > COUNT Byte count of data to follow, 2 bytes. If zero, >> > no data is contained in this sector. >> > >> > All sectors occurring on a side will be grouped together; >> > however, they will appear in the same order as they occurred on >> > the diskette. Therefore, if an 8 sector-per-track diskette were >> > scanned which had a physical interleave of 2:1, the sectors might >> > appear in the order 1,5,2,6,3,7,4,8 in the DOS dump file. >> > >> > After the last specified cylinder has been written to the DOS >> > file, AnaDisk returns to the Main Menu. >> >> This is a good start. The header should include a byte that contains a >> flag indicating the status of the sector (good, bad, etc). >This seems rather "high level" if you are wanting to preserve the exact disk >contents. Though it may be all you can do using a standard PC floppy >controller. >> What about odd formats? I take my experience from the Apple ][. You had >> stuff like half-tracks and quarter-tracks (the head was stepped half-way >> or half of half-way between tracks to store data), odd disk formats >> (custom sector sizes, custom sector layouts, etc.), synchronization >> between tracks (one copy protection scheme was to write a two tracks so >> that if a seek was done from one track to the other, a specific sector >> would be expected under the head as soon as it got to the next track). >I would like to be proved wrong, but there is no way to account for every >possible strange thing that could be done in terms of custom formats, >copy-protection etc., at least in a high level file format that doesn't just >sample the bits coming from the disk. >It would be possible to construct a device for archiving disks at a very low >level. I guess this would be similar to commercial floppy disk duplicators, >except writing data to a file instead of another floppy. The bit stream from >the disk would be sampled at a very high rate to allow for various tricks >that could be done. Or by modifying a floppy drive, the analogue signal from >the read head could be sampled. Tricks like "pulsing" the drive motor during >a write to vary rotation rate, changing the data rate mid-write (e.g. 2us vs >4us per bit cell), changing precompensation values mid write, using custom >non-MFM-or-GCR coding methods, reducing drive motor speed for some tracks >(thus writing long tracks which cannot be duplicated on an unmodified >drive/computer),... >[Long tracks are a common form of copy-protection on Amiga games.] >Such a low-level dump of raw data would at least preserve all (or almost all) >information on the disk. Successfully writing an exact duplicate back to >another floppy would depend on the capabilities of your disk controller. >Still, such as image file could be easily supported by emulators. Also bad >sectors would be preserved, meaning that recovery of most of the data from >them would be possible. >> The AnaDisk software doesn't seem to accomodate copy protected or >> custom-format disks. The standard will have to address these disks as >> well. >You may know that Amiga computers have very flexible floppy controller >hardware. There are several programs on the Amiga that are intended to >image/archive disks at a low level. >These read the raw bits from an entire track in one pass, and store that >(from index to index, plus some). This is independent of the coding method >used >(MFM, GCR or whatever), and of course preserves sector order, distance >between sectors etc. It should be possible to successfully archive almost any >PC floppy disk that way, protected or not. >I don't have many copy-protected PC floppies. Was any famously "evil" type of >disk-based copy-protection used for PC software? I would quite like to try >making a working backup of a disk like this. >The Catweasel disk controller hardware (available as an ISA card for PCs) is >capable of similar things. However due to its developer (stupidly IMO) >refusing to release details on how to program it directly, this would be of >no use; you're stuck with the provided drivers which are apparently pretty >poor. >- -- Mark -------------------------------------------------- = IF this computer is with us now... = =...It must have been meant to come live with us.= = (Belldandy - Goddess First class) = --------------------------------------------------

26 years, 1 month

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Get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? [Was: Re: N otes on repa...

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > Not sure what country you live in, but if you're in the US, then > > regardless of whatever munincipal laws have been enacted, the U.S. > > Supreme Court has ruled (on multiple occaisions) that refuse is > > exactly that- stuff that people no longer want. > > > Well, the rule depends. If it's a commercial dumpster on > private property you're tresspassing and stealing if it's in > the dumpster. At the curb it's on public property and avaiable. Granted... tresspassing is tresspassing. -dq

26 years, 1 month

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OS/2

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Close, but not quite correct. > > GPF is a general protection fault, the most common problem is > a bad or uninitialized pointer. > > What makes a DLL get loaded, or paged in, is a page fault. > Its the same mechanism that causes a swapped out page to be swapped back > in on a 4K boundary. What I'm saying is that the way is *should* work is: pointer fault on attempt to execute faulted pointer to DLL routine segment fault on attempt to execute code in unmapped DLL routine's segment page fault on attempt to execute code in unmapped DLL routine's page And in a really proper OS you'd also get a page fault if the page map containing the PageMapTableEntries weren't currently mapped in (and yes you can page out page maps). And before you point out that segments went away from Win32 let me say that too is another fatal flaw with the Windows family of OS's. -dq

26 years, 1 month

2
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Sellam Explodes

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Criminys... ask a guy to just let the subject drop, and this is what happens. I've blocked any further E-mail from Sellam at this end. It's obvious that I can't even disagree with him now without ticking him off. I'm posting his final message as something of a warning to others who think he can handle things like this in a mature way. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- Date sent: Mon, 29 May 2000 19:48:02 -0700 (PDT) From: "Vintage Computer GAWD!" <foo(a)siconic.com> To: "Bruce Lane" <kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com> Subject: Re: Please let it DROP! On Sat, 27 May 2000, Bruce Lane wrote: > If you value, as I do, the fact that we got along pretty well > during our few past meetings, please let the subject drop. Here and > now. > > It is obvious that we agree to disagree, and I would prefer to > leave it at that point than start a flame-war that's going to leave us > both too pissed off to see straight. Bruce, I value our "friendship" as much as you do, which is to say not enough for you to avoid constantly insulting me like you have the monopoly on valid opinions and to act in a uncivil manner. Basically, take your apoplectic rantings and stick them up your ass. I tried to be patient and not get angry from your last message, but I've never been one to accept a continued stream of abuse, especially >from a dweeb like yourself. I don't want, nor do I need, a reply from you. Any more messages I receive from you on this matter I will consider to be SPAM and, since you live in a state which has laws against that sort of thing, I will not hesitate to file a complaint against you. Best regards, Sellam -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner/Head Honcho, Blue Feather Technologies (www.bluefeathertech.com) kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com "SCSI Users, Unite! Beware the IDEs of March!"

26 years, 1 month

3
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Somebody wanted TI S1500

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

I can't find my link to whoever wanted a TI s1500. I think is was a museum. Please respond to mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu. I was diving through my local computer surplus exchange and came across the following. I had to stand on top of a fork-truck and look into a big box to examine all of these. There's goodies in those dusty boxes. TI S1500, also external expansion chassis wd900 Doesn't look like my TI explorer. TI Business Pro TI 990 with 9-track cipher tape equivalent all in 5 foot rack Tektronix 4052 I'm keeping the Tek 4052 but I want to have the surplus exchange transfer the TI S1500 to the museum. I'm taking pictures before I transfer any of these. Mike mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu

26 years, 1 month

1
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Papertape and Mylar variant

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

I seem to remember that back in the good old days (BITGOD) the cruise missile programmers at McDonnell Douglas were required to punch a Mylar version of a paper tape that was the guidance load for each missile and then it was stored in a vault. I guess that you could decode the holes in the tape to "prove" that the guidance load was correct. Somewhere I have a tape fragment, not from a missile but from some game code. I think this tape was not fan folded but rolled for storage. Mike

26 years, 1 month

1
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OS/2

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Eh? You're both wrong. OS/2 used the protected-mode multi-segment > support of the x86, but recall that OS/2 was originally released on the > 286 -- it didn't have any paging support. It's easy to distinguish a > fault during a CS load from a GPF, and no page fault is involved. There is another factor complicating this history lesson. The most extant machine that was OS/2 capable at the time of its launch was the IBM PC/AT. Most of the PC/AT models shipped with mask C of the 80286 processor. There was a flaw in the C mask chip that caused the CX register to be trashed on a GPF. That meant for OS/2 to take advantage of this hardware feature would have required a processor upgrade (they were socketed, PGA) for all these machines. Still, how hard would it have been to include a chip in the package? -dq

26 years, 1 month

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Prime Parts: was "Documenting how old computers..."

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

Ok, I'm looking for a SCSI controller (7110 or 7210 are the only two models I know of), and a LHC300 ethernet controller. Got one? Also, looking for an 8mm streaming tape drive. Do you have a manual for PL1/G? -doug q -----Original Message----- From: Steve Robertson [mailto:steverob@hotoffice.com] Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 4:46 PM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Prime Parts: was "Documenting how old computers..." I've got a small Pr1me buried somewhere in my garage. I'm not prositive but, I *think* it's a 2550. It's a complete system but, it has a bad CPU. That being the case, I'll make any of the parts available for anyone that's looking to resurrect one. Let me know exactly what parts you need and I'll see if I have them. I'm really not too familiar with that hardware so, you'll have be *real* specific about the parts you need. I also have a bunch of Pr1me DOCs (many still in the shrink wrap) if someone needs them. I'd like to get a token fee for the parts and of course you'd have to pay shipping from South Florida. Later, Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas Quebbeman [ mailto:dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com <mailto:dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com> ] > Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 3:23 PM > To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: Documenting how old computers were used > > > I'm working on some sources for spares; but I'm not even sure > what I'll find in the machine. The owner had a stroke around > Christmas, and some things are returning more slowly than others. > > But I'll definitely be needed either a 7110 or 7210 SCSI controller > and an LHC300 ethernet controller. > > So, what's a Xyplex? > > -doug q >

26 years, 1 month

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Documenting how old computers were used

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> I'd be interested to know what other list members are doing, and how > important you think the information being lost is. I'm glad you posted this. I'm effecting a rescue of a Prime 2455 system, which I should receive in a week. As it stands, I think this already may be parts of different systems, but I'll do as you suggest, and make note of what was installed on it when I first fire it up. Any other Pr1me fans hanging out here??? -doug q

26 years, 1 month

4
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Defining Disk Image Dump Standard

by mark_k＠iname.com

On Fri, 26 May 2000 Vintage Computer GAWD! wrote: > On Fri, 26 May 2000, John Foust wrote: > > > Below is the section from the manual that describes their > > file format. > > > > Each sector written to the file is optionally preceded by an > > 8-byte header record of the following form: > > > > > > +------+------+------+------+------+------+----------+ > > | ACYL | ASID | LCYL | LSID | LSEC | LLEN | COUNT | > > +------+------+------+------+------+------+----------+ > > > > ACYL Actual cylinder, 1 byte > > ASID Actual side, 1 byte > > LCYL Logical cylinder; cylinder as read, 1 byte > > LSID Logical side; or side as read, 1 byte > > LSEC Sector number as read, 1 byte > > LLEN Length code as read, 1 byte > > COUNT Byte count of data to follow, 2 bytes. If zero, > > no data is contained in this sector. > > > > All sectors occurring on a side will be grouped together; > > however, they will appear in the same order as they occurred on > > the diskette. Therefore, if an 8 sector-per-track diskette were > > scanned which had a physical interleave of 2:1, the sectors might > > appear in the order 1,5,2,6,3,7,4,8 in the DOS dump file. > > > > After the last specified cylinder has been written to the DOS > > file, AnaDisk returns to the Main Menu. > > This is a good start. The header should include a byte that contains a > flag indicating the status of the sector (good, bad, etc). This seems rather "high level" if you are wanting to preserve the exact disk contents. Though it may be all you can do using a standard PC floppy controller. > What about odd formats? I take my experience from the Apple ][. You had > stuff like half-tracks and quarter-tracks (the head was stepped half-way > or half of half-way between tracks to store data), odd disk formats > (custom sector sizes, custom sector layouts, etc.), synchronization > between tracks (one copy protection scheme was to write a two tracks so > that if a seek was done from one track to the other, a specific sector > would be expected under the head as soon as it got to the next track). I would like to be proved wrong, but there is no way to account for every possible strange thing that could be done in terms of custom formats, copy-protection etc., at least in a high level file format that doesn't just sample the bits coming from the disk. It would be possible to construct a device for archiving disks at a very low level. I guess this would be similar to commercial floppy disk duplicators, except writing data to a file instead of another floppy. The bit stream from the disk would be sampled at a very high rate to allow for various tricks that could be done. Or by modifying a floppy drive, the analogue signal from the read head could be sampled. Tricks like "pulsing" the drive motor during a write to vary rotation rate, changing the data rate mid-write (e.g. 2us vs 4us per bit cell), changing precompensation values mid write, using custom non-MFM-or-GCR coding methods, reducing drive motor speed for some tracks (thus writing long tracks which cannot be duplicated on an unmodified drive/computer),... [Long tracks are a common form of copy-protection on Amiga games.] Such a low-level dump of raw data would at least preserve all (or almost all) information on the disk. Successfully writing an exact duplicate back to another floppy would depend on the capabilities of your disk controller. Still, such as image file could be easily supported by emulators. Also bad sectors would be preserved, meaning that recovery of most of the data from them would be possible. > The AnaDisk software doesn't seem to accomodate copy protected or > custom-format disks. The standard will have to address these disks as > well. You may know that Amiga computers have very flexible floppy controller hardware. There are several programs on the Amiga that are intended to image/archive disks at a low level. These read the raw bits from an entire track in one pass, and store that (from index to index, plus some). This is independent of the coding method used (MFM, GCR or whatever), and of course preserves sector order, distance between sectors etc. It should be possible to successfully archive almost any PC floppy disk that way, protected or not. I don't have many copy-protected PC floppies. Was any famously "evil" type of disk-based copy-protection used for PC software? I would quite like to try making a working backup of a disk like this. The Catweasel disk controller hardware (available as an ISA card for PCs) is capable of similar things. However due to its developer (stupidly IMO) refusing to release details on how to program it directly, this would be of no use; you're stuck with the provided drivers which are apparently pretty poor. -- Mark

26 years, 1 month

3
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Someone needs Dynalogic Hyperion info

by vcf＠siconic.com

Can anyone help this guy out? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 22:04:26 -0700 From: Leo Butzel <lbutzel(a)home.com> Subject: Updated e-mail address needed for Archives Hope I not repeating myself ! Looking for info on the Dynalogic Hyperion, a "portable" DOS machine manufactures around 1983. At least the one I have is 1983. it was designed and initially built in Ottawa, Canada. Hyperion was acquired in about 1983 by Bytec, who was later bought by I think a Quebec company called Comterm. Anyway, mine has stopped working: Hence I am looking for service info and/or persons who have worked on the machine. Thanks very much for any leads you might provide. Leo Butzel Seattle, WA lbutzel(a)home.com Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... Coming soon: VCF 4.0! VCF East: Planning in Progress See http://www.vintage.org for details!

26 years, 1 month

1
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Geeks and quality of life (was Re: A moment of silence...)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- sjm <sethm(a)loomcom.com> wrote: > I love the Bay Area. I was born in San Francisco, I really > consider this place home despite my family roots in New England > (which is just too hot in the summer, and too cold in the winter)... > > Or, I can afford a four bedroom home in the nicest suburb of > Columbus, Ohio. (Yes, I realise Columbus Ohio fails my weather test. > Otherwise, I'd be there :) What ever made you pick Columbus as your touchstone? If you prefer Bay Area weather, I guarantee that it fails your weather test, but, yes, the housing prices are quite moderate (with salaries to match ;-) On the plus side, a nice house in one of the very desirable sections of town goes from $225K to $350K, new houses in a modest neighborhood are more like $160K to $180K, and in my neighborhood (near Ohio State University, so city schools for those folks that care), it's closer to $110K to $150K for a 50-70 year-old two-to-three bedroom house. On my mother's street (three blocks from OSU), the houses are 4-bedroom brick, pre-WWI, and run around $125K. It's a huge range, depending on where you want to live, how long you want it to take to get to work (since the geek jobs are concentrated on the NW side of the city, in and near Dublin (think "Memorial Tournament")). I drive 12.5 miles to get to work only because I take surface streets and avoid the freeway which is under massive construction all around the part of town that has a high concentration of tech jobs. Now... the other side of the coin: the coin. My experience around here is that a 10+ year UNIX administrator can get between $50K - $100K, depending on salary vs. contract, size of employer, quality of negotiating skills, etc. NT and Novell admins get about 75%-80% of that. Programmers can get anywhere >from $40K - $100K, depending on the esoteric nature of the work, project based vs product based, language, etc. I do not know any geeks personally in this market who I know to be making a bunch over $100K, but I do know a lot of people earning between $50K and $75K. I used to say that I would never personally take a Bay Area job for less than $125K/year. I would be lowering my standard of living. Given the nature of the housing market there, I might have to revise my number. I don't think I want to try to buy a $600K+ house. This is not meant as an advertisement for Columbus. It's some numbers to put the California experience into some perspective. I wouldn't mind visiting, but I wouldn't want to live there. I'm sure Hans and other Europeans here will have some interesting comments on the difference bewteen housing and energy costs between the two continents. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd(a)iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/

26 years, 1 month

1
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Get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? [Was: Re: Notes on repairing the Apple Lisa power supply]

by mgregory＠vantageresearch.com

-----Original Message----- From: R. D. Davis <rdd(a)smart.net> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Thursday, May 25, 2000 3:02 PM Subject: Re: Notes on repairing the Apple Lisa power supply <snip> >Hmmm... have you considered computer preservation as a hobby instead >of computer demolition? > <snip> > >Shouldn't you have tried to find that out before swapping things >around without knowing what you were doing? > >-- >R. D. Davis >rdd(a)perqlogic.com >http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd >410-744-4900 > On the whole, your reply seemed remarkably snotty and unhelpful, and didn't add much useful information to help solve the problem. And for relatively common computers, component swapping is a perfectly valid way of isolating a fault quickly. Let's assume the worst case: he had fried his other Lisa. Would that have been a tragic loss to history? There are hundreds (thousands?) of other preserved Lisas out there. Even with blown components, he could still have sold them for hundreds "as-is" on eBay, where they would provide parts to revive other Lisas. Not every classic computer should be treated like a priceless antique. Get some perspective. Just my 2 cents. Mark.

26 years, 1 month

8
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ASCII art

by mranalog＠home.com

"McFadden, Mike" <mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu> wrote: > Example: > picture value array 1 array2 array3 > 0 space space space > 1 period space space > 2 colon space space > 3 plus space space > . > . > . > 9 0 W M A couple of years ago, after reading the chapter on ASCII art in "The New RTTY Handbook", I wrote a quick and dirty program to to convert .BMP files into non-overstrike ASCII pictures I could send in emails. From the book, I created my levels of "gray" in 8 levels with this character array: M H I : " , . [SP] (from dark to light) I'm curious as to the rest of the characters in your arrays. Do you remember which characters you used? --Doug ==================================================== Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com (work) Sr. Software Eng. mranalog(a)home.com (home) Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com Sunnyvale,CA Curator Analog Computer Museum and History Center http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog ====================================================

26 years, 1 month

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VAX emulator

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

Check out www.charon-vax.com. Interesting - software VAX emulator for Windows NT / 2000. Bill -- +--------------------+-------------------+ | Bill Bradford | Austin, Texas | +--------------------+-------------------+ | mrbill(a)sunhelp.org | mrbill(a)mrbill.net | +--------------------+-------------------+

26 years, 1 month

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test-drb