- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by allisonp＠world.std.com

For the original topic... For those getting into VAX based machines a smaller VAX like a VS2000, VS3100 or maybe a complete MicroVax-II, MV-III, 11/730 or even 11/750 is a good starting point and an easy admission. Once you're comfortable and DECified with that then something more massive or complex to get going is reasonable. Also from a perfomance standpoint the smaller VAXen can be impressive. I can hear the crowd... 11/730 or 750s are physically larger but if complete they are otherwise ver manageable for power and cooling. Also unlike the larger 78x and 85xx series the 730s and 750s are fairly common, well known and can often be had for the effort of moving it. Allison

26 years

1
0
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Can some HP people help this guy?

by dlw＠trailingedge.com

This came in to me but I can't really help him at the moment. I know some of you HP collectors might be able to help. Contact him at the address below. ------- Forwarded message follows ------- Date sent: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 10:55:06 -0400 From: "Richard Rochester" <RRochester(a)getragusa.com> My company has been using an HP9836 to do calculations for a gear shaver sharpening machine. It can no longer be booted up because the main 5.25 drive will no longer read the disk. Do you know of any sources for these machines or parts? We were thinking that we might even be able to rig an external drive that would enable the machine to boot up. I'd appreciate any information you have on the subject. Thanks. Rich Rochester rrochester(a)getragusa.com ------- End of forwarded message ------- ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

26 years

2
1
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The cost of collecting debate

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> 8088 CPU clocked at 5MHz > > 128k DRAM on the motherboard > > 4 expansion slots, 50 pins each > > 3 6522 VIAs on the motherboard, for system control functions, the > Printer/GPIB port and the user port > > Sound I/O using a 6852 and a CODEC chip > > A strange video system. There's 2K*16 bits of video RAM, with a 6845 CRT > controller to address it. The output of that partially provides the video > attributes (intensified, etc). But 11 bits are fed to the address lines > of the main DRAM array. This DRAM acts as the character generator and > stores the bitmap patters for the characters. Note that as there are > 2000 characters on an 80*24 screen and 11 bits gives 2048 different > values, it's possible to have a different 'character' displayed at each > screen location, thus allowing a bitmapped display. FWIW, the UK Apricot > computer has a similar video system IIRC, the Victor 9000 was designed by Chuck Peddle, the architect of the 6502 (or maybe it was the 6500) processor. This might account for the Motorola/Mostek chip usage. > 2 full-height 5.25" floppy drives on the front. These are Tandon > mechanims without their logic boards. They're linked to a controller > board that uses essentially the same GCR encoder/decoder as the Commodore > 8050, etc. The drives are variable speed units (!) with an 8048 on the > floppy controller board to control the speed. Thes means the machine > manages to get 500K on a single-sided 80 track floppy disk Not only were they GCR recorded (and I'll probably get this backwards), the drives were run in a Constant Linear Velocity mode, rather than the Constant Angular Velocity mode used by most drives. IIRC, the Mac 400k drives, were also CLV , but weren't GCR. IIRC, later models used some more compatible scheme; speaking of compatibilty, there were two variants of Microsoft BASIC available, one which was either generic or Victor-specific, and another that was IBM compatible. > Software control of the brightness and contrast of the (monochrome) > monitor using 3-bit resistor ladder DACs hung off the system VIA. > > Does that sound like a Victor 9000? Oh, yeah, that's it. The thing I remember most is that the Developer's kit the owner had came with PMATE: Phoenix-Mike Aronson's Text Editor. I pirated it, then when I went to my next fulltime job, they had the CP/M version, which was configurable (using PMATE macros) for different video systems or terminals, so I was able to combine the parts to get a version working on a PC when I went to the _next_ job. Which I used for about 6 months, then I bought a licensed copy, which I still use as my preferred editor to this day. For those that are unfamiliar with PMATE, it's more or less TECO with an incremental redisplay grafted on to it. In other words, EMACS without the LISP. Not quite, but a reasonable comparison. Anybody know anything abut Mike Aronson? Nobody at Phoenix can tell me *anything* about PMATE, and it would be nice to have the source code so I could fix some bugs. -doug q

26 years

3
2
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New Finds

by r.stek＠snet.net

I don't often make great finds around Hartford, but a local HS had a tag sale, and for $20 I came away with: 2 Mac Plus w/ 2 "long" and 3 "short" keyboards, 1 numeric keypad (less the ')' key), all working 3 matching 20 MB SCSI drives, also working 5 mice for same 1 Mac LC 3 Apple Keyboard II (1 cable, 2 kb's missing 1 key each, and only 1 ADB cord) 1 "limited Edition Woz" IIGS, working 2 Mac 12" RGB Displays, working 1 Apple composite color monitor for the IIGS, working 1 Apple IIe 2 Echo IIb boards & speakers 3 3.5" Apple drives, condition unknown 3 5" Apple drives, condition unknown 2 Heath-Zenith 8088's, from which I scavenged the 2 ST-225 drives (working), 1 working HD controller, 2 5" floppies condition unknown, 2 floppy controllers (ditto), I/O boards, AST combo board, the CPU's and memory chips. AND 1 IBM PC Portable - one of the floppies was not working, so I replaced it with a HD and WD controller from one of the Zeniths - works great! If I had half the space some of you describe, I could have had 20-30 IIe's, monitors, printers, and some 286 PC's. Of course, if I did that I would also have a second ex-wife! Bob Stek Saver of Lost SOLs

26 years

2
1
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Time spent Looking VS time spent "Playing"

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 28, 11:07, FBA wrote: > How much time do you devote searching for old machines? Very little, now. I used to, but I've run out of room (I hid a scanner and an SGI monitor in my wife's wardrobe recently). Every so often, someone says "I hear you collect..." and before you know it, there's another one. They seem to come in little bursts, too -- nothing interesting for months, then two or three in a week from different sources. > How much time "Playing" (fixing, using etc...) these machines? Not nearly enough :-) A few months ago, I reached the state in the garage that there literally was no room to get *to* almost anything, far less *into* it. Six weeks ago was the point at which it all got moved out, and the conversion/extension work began. By this weekend, I'll be putting in the new network cable and starting painting in the new computer room. The walls have been lined and plastered (makes the room smaller, but deals with the condensation issues), new ceiling, it's all rewired (175 metres of cable in the power circuits alone), purpose-built workbenches (still to be built, though), raised computer floor, floor boxes for power and network, floor-to-ceiling shelves in one corner to hold and run about 20 small machines and their peripherals, space for two DEC racks and a couple of BA23's. Of course, not everything that went out will fit back in, but most will, and will be usable. Though it might be a while before I finish all the benches and stuff, and then I better move the scanner and monitor before I do much else, or The Boss might renege on her promise to pay for half of it! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years

13
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Setasi PEP70/HC43/HC45 cabling

by eric＠brouhaha.com

Does anyone here know anything about the Setasi PEP70 memory system for the PDP-11/70? I posted the question below to the PDP-11 list, and got no reply. :-( Eric Can anyone describe the correct cabling between the PEP70, HC43, and HC45 cards (Setasi's memory and cache-replacement cards for the PDP-11/70)? There are four connectors on the PEP70, and two each on the HC43 and HC45. It appears that the topmost PEP70 connector should be cabled to the second from the top on the HC45, and the second PEP70 to the topmost on the HC45. But I have no idea how the two cables between the PEP70 and HC43 should be wired. There would seem to be only two possibilities, but I am loathe to risk damaging anything by using trial and error. Thanks! Eric

26 years

1
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Getting into VAXing

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

Zane. You wimp. An 8350 is a fairly friendly BIbus system. Nothing weird about it. It's perhaps not the best "first" VAX, but it's certainly not as daunting as something like an 11/780 or an 8800. There's certainly more to VAX life than the desktop machines. If this guy is motivated, and the machine is in reasonably good shape, and maybe with a little help from us, I'll bet he can get this machine up & running with only a little bit of sweat. -Dave McGuire On June 28, healyzh(a)aracnet.com wrote: > Um, I suppose I'm fairly 'into' VAXen, and I definitly like messing with > VMS. I've one thing to say about this system. *I* wouldn't touch it! > Getting the stuff to get it up and running would likely be a real pain > (although I do have a system console for one). > > If you want to mess with VAXen then get a 3100 series MicroVAX or > VAXstation, or a 4000 series VAXstation. If you're more interested in VMS, > then you might also consider an Alpha. Then once you've got one system up > you can consider getting other systems such as Q-Bus VAXen, or maybe a big > VAXen. > > > > So far, I've mostly stuck with micros (Apple, Commodore, Atari, etc.) > > > > But I noticed someone auctioning a VAX 8350 for about $50 over on Ebay, > > and I wondered, would it be relatively straightforward for a VAX newbie > > like me to: > > a. ship > > Probably have to be crated. > > > b. get it running > > Nightmarish I suspect > > > c. find software (Unix, Vms, etc) and hardware (disk drives, tape drives, > > etc.) > > VMS is the *ONE* True OS!!! Info on the truely great Hobbyist licenses can > be found at the following page. > http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ > > But if you insist on being sick and twisted > http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/ > http://www.netbsd.com > > Hardware? Just about anywhere. > > > d. keep it running (does it require specialized maintenance) > > Probably pretty easy. While I've not messed with this particular model I've > found the VAXen I've got to be very reliable. Except the ones using old MFM > Hard drives (and that's a hard drive issue). I do suspect this model > probably requires a climet controlled computer room, but really don't know. > > > My only experience with VAXen was at a terminal in college and at a couple > > of jobs. The machine itself was always kept in its own, airconditioned, > > halon-fire-extinguisher equipped, raised floor room. > > > > So, should I jump into the fray? > > YES!!! But, not with this system. Personally I think probably your best > system to start with would be a VAXstation 4000 of some sort. A personal > VAX with 24MB is quite nice, a personal Alpha with about 112MB is quite > nice (the amount of RAM is probably the biggest thing to consider). 1-2GB > of Disk space and a CD-ROM would also be recommended. > > Zane >

26 years

3
3
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Getting into VAXing

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Pat Barron <pat(a)transarc.ibm.com> wrote: > On Thu, 29 Jun 2000, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > The other is the 11/730. Small, slow, but there are only 2 ASICs (Memory > > ECC gate arrays IIRC). The rest is AMD bit-slice, PALs, and simple chips. > > > > Would the 11/725 also be a good/equivalent choice? My (possibly flawed) > understanding is that the 725 is basically a 730 squeezed into a > BA123-style "end-table" box (about the size of a Perq T2 or so). Right... identical CPU, no provisions for external expansion (but you _can_ squeeze a Unibus cable out it if you're careful), RC25 disks - fun but a pain - one motor with two disks; one removable, one fixed, 25Mb each. I used to have an RC25 cart with VMS 5.0 on it, so I know it fits, but I lost it and the machine when the business it was resting at closed with so little warning that I couldn't get it out. :-P The 11/725 case is a bit larger than a BA-123, but the aspect ratio is similar. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd(a)iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/

26 years

1
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Your dream computer room.

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> A vertical storage system with 3 foot deep by > 4 foot wide "shelves" mounted on a kind of chain > driven circular elevator. I got the idea from > some pictures of a car parking facility. The > shelf at the I/O position could slide onto a cart > which could then take it to a workstation where > it would lock in. I figure about 2 feet of > clearance between shelves and the whole system > being about 50 feet tall (or down into the floor) > so you could have 50 systems easily ready to use, > demo or work on. Sounds just like a White Data Systems Vertical Carousel... never got to work with one of those, but I wrote lots of code to move the WDS Horizontal Carousels back in the 80s... -doug q

26 years

2
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Your dream computer room.

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > > You never worked with overhead raceways, did you? > > > > Oh, they're great if you like your cables getting sliced > > up as you pull them through; pulling the raceway tops off > > (the alternative) is no fun either. > > I work with them every day and don't have such problems. I rather > like 'em. The ones I use are made by Newton...might wanna check 'em > out. Ho Ho Ho! Last time I pulled cable (raceways amongst others) was in college... somebody else gets all the fun now. Not that I mind work, Hell, I love it, I can watch it all day! -dq

26 years

1
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Your dream computer room.

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On June 29, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > A couple of big APC Silicon UPSes, room air conditioner > > > (http://www.coolestspot.com/ is REALLY neat) Darkened glass > > > room dividers. A big control room like in wargames. And > > > I think overhead wiring raceways are cooler than a raised floor :) > > > > You never worked with overhead raceways, did you? > > Oh, they're great if you like your cables getting sliced > up as you pull them through; pulling the raceway tops off > (the alternative) is no fun either. I work with them every day and don't have such problems. I rather like 'em. The ones I use are made by Newton...might wanna check 'em out. -Dave McGuire

26 years

1
0
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Your dream computer room.

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > A couple of big APC Silicon UPSes, room air conditioner > > (http://www.coolestspot.com/ is REALLY neat) Darkened glass > > room dividers. A big control room like in wargames. And > > I think overhead wiring raceways are cooler than a raised floor :) > > You never worked with overhead raceways, did you? Oh, they're great if you like your cables getting sliced up as you pull them through; pulling the raceway tops off (the alternative) is no fun either. -dq

26 years

1
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The cost of collecting debate

by allisonp＠world.std.com

From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> >Anyway, the IBM Incompatibles that I've got include : >Sanyo MBC555 >DEC Rainbow >HP150 >HP110+ >Sirius (Victor 9000) >IBM PCjr (sort-of. It'll boot standard PC-DOS, but quite a lot of standard >software won't run). >FTS-88 (I've never seen MS-DOS for it, only CP/M 86, but it's an 8088 box). You forgot the Vaxmate a 286 box that was mildly PC. >> Honestly, I have no desire for an altair/imsai/apple 1, so as long as those >> are "fashionable" and little else, I won't shed a tear over it. If, > >I, too, have little desire to own any of those. I have the altair, what junk. I do have a buch of other first machines of the SBC fame. Allison

26 years

2
1
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the other side of the equation - your SO/spouse

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

ROFL!!! -----Original Message----- From: Steve Robertson [mailto:steverob@hotoffice.com] Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 12:41 PM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: RE: the other side of the equation - your SO/spouse > We had an agreement that if anything new came in, > something had to go out. This has limited my collecting for a little > while. I had the same agreement... Some new "stuff" came in so, I tossed the old "stuff" out. Now I live alone :-) Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years

2
1
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A-1 Rating for Meyers Computer Services

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

Meyers Computer Services is an A-1 operation, so I can heartily recommend them if you ever want to do business with them. You may recall my post about a drive I bought on haggle. The drive in question arrived sans three SMD chips from the interface PCB, and would not spin up. The replacement arrived very quickly even though I told them to save money and go slow-boat-to-China with it. The replacement has the chips that were missing from the first one. I haven't tried it yet, but I already told them no big deal if it doesn't work. There are apparently a ton of these flooding the surplus market right now, and I've got another coming from another source (for less than this one cost), so I'm as happy as a pig in shiwhroishafowehfofhaew;fhawef -doug q

26 years

1
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the other side of the equation - your SO/spouse

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

> We had an agreement that if anything new came in, > something had to go out. This has limited my collecting for a little > while. I had the same agreement... Some new "stuff" came in so, I tossed the old "stuff" out. Now I live alone :-) Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years

1
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the other side of the equation - your SO/spouse

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

Since we're on the topic of collections, I have this question: How does your significant other/spouse deal with your hobby, if you have one (a SO, not a hobby), and what "concessions" do you make to stay in their good graces? Myself, I have the aforementioned 2-car garage, plus we have an "agreement" that for any "big" item, I have to get rid of an equivalent amount of stuff, whether it be modern or old. My SO just about throttled me when I mentioned "yeah, I picked up a couple more machines over the weekend" when I picked her up at the airport after a weekend trip a couple of years ago. She didnt quite think that the 35+ Sun SS1s, 3/80s, 3/50s, 3/60s, keyboards, and monitors, in piles in the living room, were a "couple" like I did. 8-) Of course, I lived in a 1/1 apartment at the time, so she was placated when I sold off most of the systems and bought her a leather jacket instead. Bill ("No, honey, please ignore the semi trailer and the forklift backing up to the garage...") -- +-------------------\ /-----------------+ | Bill Bradford | www.sunhelp.org | | mrbill(a)mrbill.net | www.decvax.org | | Austin, Texas USA | www.pdp11.org | +-------------------/ \-----------------+

26 years

5
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Archives of OS/360-ish public domain software?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> There must've been an (or several) IBM "Big Iron" users groups at >> one point. Didn't they have a library of public-domain software they >> shared? >Yes... IIRC, wasn't it called S.H.A.R.E.? Yes, SHARE still exists, but its online archives only extend back to 1997 and you have to fork over $250.00 and have an IBM mainframe and be approved by their membership committee just to view the archives. See http://www.share.org/ for more information... It's also unfortunate that SHARE's bylaws prohibit anyone other than SHARE >from distributing their collected software. I was looking for public-domain OS/360 stuff, but maybe William's right: It just doesn't exist, and if it does exist, they don't want you to find it! Tim.

26 years

2
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the other side of the equation - your SO/spouse

by mbg＠world.std.com

My SO and I have two condos... we live at one and my computers lived at the other. We had an agreement that if anything new came in, something had to go out. This has limited my collecting for a little while. Well, we now have a storage area (10x20) and much of my collection has moved to storage (we're hoping to sell both condos and get a house -- *with a garage and/or basement* for my collection). Now that I have the storage place, I can get a little more stuff without having to let something go... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years

1
0
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Archives of OS/360-ish public domain software?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> There must've been an (or several) IBM "Big Iron" users groups at > one point. Didn't they have a library of public-domain software they > shared? Yes... IIRC, wasn't it called S.H.A.R.E.? -dq

26 years

1
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Your dream computer room.

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> <extreme jealousy> > > Ok. Let's start a fun thread for a change. Who among us didn't > spend some time with paper and crayon as a child designing the ideal > "fort"? What kind of computer shop would you build given sufficient > time/money/space? My erstwhile "partner" in embedded systems projects during the early 90s had rented space from an electrical repair firm; the building was a former post office. He had about a room of about 500 sq. ft., with 3-phase power and a raised floor. This would be my ideal; most ideal about it is that it would be somewhere other than inside my home. -dq

26 years

1
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the other side of the equation - your SO/spouse

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 28, 21:52, Bill Bradford wrote: > How does your significant other/spouse deal with your hobby, if > you have one (a SO, not a hobby), and what "concessions" do you > make to stay in their good graces? Concessions? She took the rest of the garage and all of the extension :-) We have a deal: I don't ask her to mend my computers, and she doesn't ask me to help in the garden or the allotment she recently took on :-) Well that was the original deal, but occasionally I do help -- if there are paving slabs to move, or wood to be sawn. Liz is into gardening and computers rather like I'm into computers and gardening, so the utility room is also a garden store. I like to sit in the garden and she likes the convenience of email. So apart from the SGI Indigo on her desk, computers are restricted to the computer room (garage) and my office, and the network (especially Internet access for the web and email), printers and tech support will be available whenever required. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years

1
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Paul Allen's TOAD (was: Re: MicroPDP-11/73 Goes to Evil Lurke r)

by phil＠ultimate.com

> Commands Manual (this is the heavier paper version, not the "phone > book" styled pub) Let me know when you put it up for auction. I've always wanted one!

26 years

1
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MORE dec stuff available!

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

I'm lucky enough to be the recipient of a large collection of PDP-11 and VAX stuff from an awesome guy in Houston, and I just finished unloading Haul #1 (with at least four more to go) from my truck, where its been for a week due to being busy with other things. Some of this is available to good homes (on a trade-for-other-stuff basis), but first, I have to brag, and everyone loves pictures: VMS 4.x "Orange Wall": ---------------------- http://www.pdp11.org/pics/orange-wall.jpg PDP 11/02 in BA11-VA chassis: ----------------------------- http://www.pdp11.org/pics/pdp-front.jpg http://www.pdp11.org/pics/pdp-front-logo-closeup.jpg http://www.pdp11.org/pics/pdp-back.jpg http://www.pdp11.org/pics/pdp-back-closeup-1.jpg http://www.pdp11.org/pics/pdp-back-closeup-2.jpg Dual Zenith RX-01 compatible 8" floppy drives (attached to PDP-11): ------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.pdp11.org/pics/eight-inch-floppys-front.jpg http://www.pdp11.org/pics/eight-inch-floppys-switches.jpg Now, the stuff that I need to ID and is available for trade for other PDP/DEC/VAX stuff: A power supply and card cage/backplane: --------------------------------------- http://www.pdp11.org/pics/backplane-and-powersupply.jpg (labels on the power supply:) http://www.pdp11.org/pics/ps-label-1.jpg http://www.pdp11.org/pics/ps-label-2.jpg http://www.pdp11.org/pics/ps-label-3.jpg http://www.pdp11.org/pics/ps-plate.jpg A really big-ass ventilation fan, and DEC box it came in: --------------------------------------------------------- http://www.pdp11.org/pics/spareparts-fan.jpg A front panel/bulkhead/key switch of some kind; I dunno if this goes with the 11/02 above: --------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.pdp11.org/pics/frontpanel-switches.jpg http://www.pdp11.org/pics/frontpanel-switches-pcb.jpg Finally, a box of five TU-58 DECtape IIs: ----------------------------------------- http://www.pdp11.org/pics/spareparts-dectapes.jpg Two of the DECtapes are labeled: BE-t493F-DE 000MUB2580 HSC50 OFFLINE TAPE V390 copr(C) 1983,89 DIGITAL EQUIP. CORP. The other three are still new in shrinkwrap. If anybody has a use for the card cage, power supply, backplane, fan, front switchpanel, or DECtapes, please let me know. Since I was given this stuff, I dont want to sell it - but I would like to trade it for other DEC stuff. Bill -- +-------------------\ /-----------------+ | Bill Bradford | www.sunhelp.org | | mrbill(a)mrbill.net | www.decvax.org | | Austin, Texas USA | www.pdp11.org | +-------------------/ \-----------------+

26 years

2
1
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Archives of OS/360-ish public domain software?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

William Doznelli wrote: >Tim Shoppa wrote: >> Are there any on-line archives of OS/360 software in the >> public domain? I'm thinking not only of operating system >> software distributions (which are rumored to be in the public >> domain), but also of user-group collections of software for >> these beasts. I'm also interested in software for previous >> generations of old iron, like IBM 1401's, etc. >I might think could be out of luck. It seems that most IBM software >(except for S/34, 36, and 38 stuff) goes away very quickly. I have a >feeling IBM itself has something to do with this. There must've been an (or several) IBM "Big Iron" users groups at one point. Didn't they have a library of public-domain software they shared? I *do* realize that the entire IBM "Big Iron" philosophy is very different than, say, the DEC minicomputer or CP/M microcomputer philosophies, but still it's hard for me to imagine that there were *Zero* user group software libraries. >If RCS/RI ever come across any, we will let you know. Wasn't there supposed to be a RCS/RI trip to rescue a lot of old "big iron" stuff from a former IBM field service type? Did he have any OS distributions or field-service diagnostics among that stuff? Tim.

26 years

2
1
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Is it time for an International Vintage Computer Association? Was: Yo

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Tue, 27 Jun 2000 00:31:48 -0400 "Bill Dawson" <whdawson(a)mlynk.com> writes: > Perhaps I should have used the word "pattern"? Yes, similar things > occur with most collectibles and their followers. Clubs, newsletters, > meets, conventions, suppliers, etc. I think though that as far as > logistics go, we have much more in common with the antique radio > collectors than with collectors of Beanie Babies. Yeah, Beanie Baby prices are actually starting to go *down*. :^/ > The point I am trying to make is that all we have to do is observe > where the Antique Radio Collector field is today and how it got there. > We are following the same path. God forbid. I'm glad I have little or no interest in 'Vintage' radio-- I'd never be able to afford it. > We can take shortcuts and avoid pitfalls. Vintage computer collecting is > not a fad, No quite, but damn near > Sellam and many others on this list have put forth great effort to put > on the VCF's, which I hope to be able to attend someday soon. I don't know about you, but I'll bet alot of guys here can't even afford the air fare. I know I can't. > However, an IVCA, with elected officers, bylaws, dues, and > non-profit status would be a great boost to this collecting field. Yeah, it's gonna give prices a real boost, alright. Tell me how you think any kind of 'boost' is going to help, huh? I can see it now: I'm at a local surplus place, and I pick out Widget (or a part for one, more likely), and ask for a price. The guys says "Uhhh, well, those are *collectable* now, you know. $50.". Never mind the fact that I got one like it the year before for $10. > I know there are those that dread this hobby or whatever you want to > call it heading in an organized direction, with the attendant increase of > publicity and collectors. Why do I think this way? I see two types of > vintage computer collectors, the true historical preservationists and > the collectors. Isn't it odd, how "True historical preservationists" always seem to have the *deepest* pockets? > Collectors see organization and all that comes with it as a threat to > their ability to find those rare pieces (find it first) and increased > competition (pay as little as possible for it). Oh, okay, so I'm a 'collector' because I don't have thousands of dollars to throw at this. I see. I don't know about you, but I got into this because, at long last, I found a truly interesting hobby I could actually *afford*. You're damned f'ing right I want to pay 'as little as possible'. That's the only way I'm going to be able to stay in this . . . . I was priced out of stamp collecting in the 70's. I was priced out of numismatics in the early 80's. I'll be goddamned if I'm going to stand idly by, to watch this happen again. > Why else all the complaining about eBay and the prices? Because alot of us won't be able to participate if the prices get too high, or are you so wealthy that this is too difficult for you to comprehend?!?! > Our goal, if I understand it correctly, is the preservation of our > computer technology for posterity. Yes. Preservation. Restoring and owning a truly historic computer is a worthwhile and uplifting endeavour. Unfortunately, the way things are going, it will soon be an endeavour for the privledged few. > If an organized association greatly furthers this cause than I > believe we should be focusing in that direction. And I'm not > limiting "we" to mean just those on this list, but also those on > the many other vintage/classic hardware and software lists as well. > This can only help but further our cause of historical preservation. And I'm saying, all you will be doing is raising the cost of admission. There's nothing anyone can do to stop you, of course. If Classic Computing becomes a 'legitimate' hobby with a 'legitimate' organization, then I guess there won't be room for amateurs like myself. You professional 'true historical preservationists' can have it. This hobby is about people, as much as it is about technology (old and new). If you're going to squeeze out a group of its people, you may as well forget the group of technology that will get squeezed out with them, for the ones who are in charge won't care. Jeff ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

26 years

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Available: RL02K-DC disk pack

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Bill Bradford <mrbill(a)mrbill.net> wrote: > Anybody have a use for an RL02K-DC disk pack? In original box, even. > > I had intended to make it into a clock, but the shock meter isnt red > yet, and it would be a sin to destory a still-usable piece of > no-longer-made media... What's on it? I have enough blanks, but sometimes you can find interesting things on used packs, especially if it was a former distribution pack (I have at least one RSX-11 pack set) -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd(a)iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/

26 years

1
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Getting into VAXing

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- healyzh(a)aracnet.com wrote: > > Zane. You wimp. An 8350 is a fairly friendly BIbus system. > > Yep, in this case feel free to call me a wimp. I've seen pieces of a 8350, > I really don't want to mess with something that big, and slow unless it's > a 11/780. The 8350 CPU is 10.5" tall, 3' deep and fits in a standard 19" rack. You typically see them in a 42" rack because the bottom is filled with room for cables and I/O bulkheads. I have an 8300 - same thing but with slower CPUs. Yes... CPUs... the 8200/8250 is a single CPU box (slow/fast), the 8300/8350s are slow and fast dual boxes. You can expand an 82x0 to an 83x0 as long as the firmware/microcode is the same on both CPU boards. This can be done in the field (which is how my 8200 was bumped up to an 8300) Fun little box. My employer paid $12,000 for mine in 1989. I got to haul it away for free five years later (w/RA-81, etc.) At the moment it has an MBA ESDI<->SDI box on it with 2.4Gb of 5.25" disks in a tray that's half the size and 1/8th the weight of the RA-81. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd(a)iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/

26 years

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Your dream computer exhibit [Was: Re: Your dream computer room]

by mgregory＠vantageresearch.com

I've always envisioned at least four rooms for my museum: 1) a static display hall, with a variety of shelves extending out from the walls, holding a variety of micros with monitors/TVs. The computers would be running random demos (e.g. the Juggler or the Boing ball, for Amigaphiles) or programs. The aim is to provoke a "Wow!" reaction at the sheer variety of shapes, sizes, and colours of cases, monitors, and graphics. 2) A "period" gallery, where examples of important computers are shown in their natural habitat. e.g. a TI-99/4A with cassette recorder and wired remote controllers would be connected to a TV in a recreation of an early 80s rec. room, complete with red carpet, photoprinted wood panelling, Farrah Fawcett poster, and battered 60's Formica and steel furniture. 3) A "hands-on" arcade or exhibit, where relatively "expendable" common computers (e.g. C-64, TI-99/4A, Atari 800XL) are set up with a variety of games carts and business software (complete with tape drives, disk drives, dot matrix printers, etc) so people can experience what it was like to actually use these machines. 4) A restoration gallery, where people can see old computers on the workbench, and restoration/repair techniques. Displays on the walls could show exploded or cutaway views of disk drives, joysticks, printers, etc. and explain the technology thay was used in these machines. Then, there would be the vault, with retina and handprint scanner, that only lets me in to play with my favourite machines. If there's anyone in Western Canada who would like to collaborate on building such a museum (or just dream about it) please contact me off-list. I'd like to get a ClassicComp club for Western Canada off the ground, and maybe even plan for VCF North in ? 2002 ?. Cheers, Mark

26 years

2
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Getting into VAXing

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On June 28, healyzh(a)aracnet.com wrote: > Yep, in this case feel free to call me a wimp. I've seen pieces of a 8350, > I really don't want to mess with something that big, and slow unless it's > a 11/780. 11/780s definitely have personality. > Um... I saw this on eBay yesterday, and as I read it, it's basically just > the CPU. I'm sorry, I do not consider this a good first system. I > maintain that the best first system is either a 3100 or 4000 series system. Call me adventurous... ;) > BTW, what's the power and cooling requirements for one of these puppies? Not too bad, actually, as long as you don't try to run RA-series disks on it. > You really need to consider that, and the fact it's apparently in a 40" > Rack! Remember shipping was one of his concerns <shudder>. True...But the 8350 is a 10.5" chassis that can be re-racked to coexist with other hardware. I really like the BA32 chassis. :-) -Dave McGuire

26 years

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Your dream computer room.

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 28, 15:26, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > I'm already doing it to an extent. I have a 10x20 room in the middle > of my house. Sounds pretty cool... > This room is not quite ideal; it could be bigger. I've had some sort of workshop or hobby room in every house I've lived in, and I've noticed there seem to be only two sizes: too small, and not big enough. > away with that. Also if I was building from scratch, I think I would > do the raised-floor thing. Maybe use aluminum diamondplate squares. > (or not... I do walk around barefoot in there a lot) Don't, it's cold and noisy, and actually less strong than most computer flooring. I had the choice of carpet-tiled floor panels or vinyl. If you could get linoleum instead of vinyl, that's even better (more expensive, though). I went for vinyl because it's easier to sweep than a carpet (in a workshop, where there's sawdust and metal swarf) and much easier to lift vinyl-covered panels (the panel lifter is a suction device like the ones glass workers use for large sheets of glass) than carpet (velcro-backed lifters work on some types, but most use metal teeth to bite into the carpet tile). I was also put off by experience at work: the hardware techs tell me that the failure rate on PSUs and fans has risen three-fold since we moved from a building with a vinyl-surfaced flooring to one with carpet (more dust). However, carpet is much better acoustically. > In this house the floors are concrete and all at the same height, so > I'd rather keep it that way rather than having to step up into the > computer room. It doesn't cost much to have a layer of concrete screeding added. The utility room which occupies the part of the garage I didn't get, plus the extension, is 4" concrete screed on top of 2" expanded polystyrene insulation/damp-proofing, to make the two floors the same level. If it's not practical to raise the floor elsewhere, you might consider excavating the middle room a few inches. Damp isn't a big issue unless the level would be below the water table; in my room, there was an extra damp-proof layer added (basically thick polythene sheet) bonded into the existing damp-proof course in the original brick walls (and the interior layer, which is 4"x2" timber framing with glass fibre fill, set 2" back from the brickwork, sits on top of that, one layer of the sheeting continuing up the inside of the brickwork for a couple of feet). There's a 5" step up to our new utility room; that's very little really, but I'm going to build a small ramp so I can trundle a rack or the trolley in and out (I sometimes take stuff to University Open Days and suchlike). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years

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College

by allisonp＠world.std.com

From: Passer, Michael <PasserM(a)umkc.edu> To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 2:48 PM Subject: OT: College >degree. Doing so right after high school is the path of >least resistance--it _is_ harder when you're older (from >experience). However when older it can be a more directed activity. >have filled that time--such as having served in the Peace >Corps, the military, or a real-world job--that might just >have made a person who waited to go to college appreciate >the opportunity laid before them. A person who did such a >thing may well be a better candidate for it. Big time. >While there is no shortage of the kind of people >who will not take a second look at those whose resumes >don't fit the mold, there are also plenty of others less >closed minded who would likely be more satisfying to >work for. so very true. Those are the people willing to offer challenges that both benefit the business and the people. Allison

26 years

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PDP-11/44 on eBay

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

Well, it says "do not assme item includes anything other than what is shown in the pictures" and the pictures clearly show the cardcage full of cards, so I wouldn't worry too much. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

26 years

2
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Time spent Looking VS time spent "Playing"

by fauradon＠mn.mediaone.net

Howdy all, Another free for all question: How much time do you devote searching for old machines? How much time "Playing" (fixing, using etc...) these machines? I've found lately that when I'm done with the rounds (that is when I can do the rounds) I usually don't have time to do the play and the machine often end up on a shelf (or floor or table or....) until I finaly free myself up. Also as the collection grows I have less time to spend with each machine and some don't get out anymore (C64, C128, ADAM etc...). It seems that the longer the setup time the less likely the machine is going to be used. I used to try to get one representative of each group easilly accessible but it is now impossible. What do you do? How do you manage your "quality" time with your machines? Do you feel guilty for neglecting that old (insert machine name here)? Francois

26 years

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Available: RL02K-DC disk pack

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

Anybody have a use for an RL02K-DC disk pack? In original box, even. I had intended to make it into a clock, but the shock meter isnt red yet, and it would be a sin to destory a still-usable piece of no-longer-made media... Bill -- +-------------------\ /-----------------+ | Bill Bradford | www.sunhelp.org | | mrbill(a)mrbill.net | www.decvax.org | | Austin, Texas USA | www.pdp11.org | +-------------------/ \-----------------+

26 years

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Your dream computer room.

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 28, 17:22, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > Peter Turnbull wrote: > > Six weeks ago was the point at which it all got moved out, > > and the conversion/extension work began. By this weekend, > <extreme jealousy> Well, I can temper that a little, maybe :-) Firstly, it's smaller than it sounds, and secondly, this is the culmination of 10 years saving to do it: when we moved here 10 years ago, it was obvious that the garage was designed to be extended to the house, joining the car port and leaving the latter as the garage (it would then be fully enclosed). However, the week we got the keys, I was made redundant, and all plans/dreams were put on hold. After a while I went back to uni to finish my degree[1], and it wasn't at all clear that we'd stay in York when I graduated. I got a job on a 2-year contract as a sysadmin at the uni, still no security, and meanwhile my wife was doing a weekly commute to work in Edinburgh (200 miles away) because she had too good a job to give up. So we continued to save any spare money, and last year my job was made permanent (with a raise) at about the same time my wife landed a good job in Yorkshire. We spent quite a while chewing over plans before we decided to call the builder, organise a loan, and the garage plus small extension is now (nearly) a computer room-cum-workshop and a utility room (for the washing machine, freezer, etc). A lot was done "on the cheap". I got the flooring from someone who reclaims such things from old buildings; a friend was buying a large quantity and I got mine extra cheap -- but I had to spend a weekend with a blowtorch removing the old glue from the supports, wire brushing them, and a day getting them cut down to size and so on. Another day sorting out good panels from bad (on top of 7' stacks) and moving them 25 miles (and they're heavy!). I got the modular shelf supports as surplus, from another building project, along with locks and door fittings I wanted. I got a lot of network cable and fittings cheaply, over a period of time. I got a patch panel free, a while ago, for example. A local kitchen unit supplier has a 50%-or-more-off sale -- guess where I got the cupboard units. My 5" metalworking vice was a "found object" several years ago. [1] Actually, to start again from scratch. First time around, I went to University straight from school, realised partway through 1st year I'd made a bad course choice, and gave up. Anyway, it was so many decades ago that it counted for zero credit. > Ok. Let's start a fun thread for a change. Who among us didn't > spend some time with paper and crayon as a child designing the ideal > "fort"? What kind of computer shop would you build given sufficient > time/money/space? Much what I'm doing now, but bigger, of course :-) The new room is 2.7 metres (9') by 4.6m (15'). One side is computer space, the other side will have my drill, miniature lathe, electronics bench, workbench and vise, etc. Only about 1/2 - 2/3 of my collection of micros will fit and be usable, and there's no room for the PCB developing tanks I acquired, nor for my photographic tanks and enlarger. Nearly all the DEC equipment will fit in the two racks. Honest. OK, maybe something will have to go on top. What did that brochure say the maximum floor loading was? I'd make it two rooms, each about 10' x 15', one for computers, the other for electronics/photo/mechanics. Or maybe the PCB and photo stuff should be separate again, away from the dust. Lots of power sockets in both; let's say one twin socket per linear foot of wall. Surge and RFI suppressors, of course, and separate circuits for computers/electronics/tools. RCD on the tools but maybe not the minis. Network connections (or rather, structured wiring, since some will be used for serial or control lines) everywhere, even beside the lathe (maybe I'll use those stepper motors one day). One bench with a built-in light box. Floor-to-ceiling shelves, fully adjustable, in units 600mm wide (2') and 700mm deep for all the micros. And their monitors! I'd want about 4 of those units (I will have 2). Make them strong (the brackets in mine are rated for a 67kg load). Space to walk all round the 19" racks (I'll have about 20" behind mine, accessible from one side only). A place to put the microfiche reader where I can use it with moderate comfort (it used to be on top of a 5' high shelf unit!). Desk space for a few favourite machines, and a trolley with 'scope, BBC Micro, terminal and printer, and of course make sure there's space to wheel it around to where it's needed. Plenty of bookshelves - I have a full set of RSX manuals, two sets of RT11, one Solaris, lots of other Unix, Acorn, programming, and networking stuff, and shelfloads of data books. I just had to turn down a couple of shelfloads of SGI manuals because I have no room left :-( Leave some wall space for a noticeboard and/or whiteboard. Air conditioning would be nice, but I've settled for a large(ish) extractor fan. No budget left! Heating is, of course, largely by minicomputer :-) though now there is a small central heating radiator and we have a portable dehumidifier which I used to use to keep the workshop air dry (cheaper than heating, and saves a lot of tools from condensation/damp damage). Good lighting -- I'd go for those fluorescent fittings with the aluminium diffuser grids built in if I could afford it (they're about 70 UKP a throw). Ah well, next time around ;-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years

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PDP-11/44 on eBay

by pat＠transarc.ibm.com

Someone just listed an 11/44 on eBay today; the URL is http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=369721415 System seems to include no disk or tape other than "dual tape drives" (e.g., dual TU58's ...). It has no bids right now, so I couldn't even make a guess at what the reserve is. I'd bid on it myself, if I had a reasonable way to get it to the East Coast .... --Pat.

26 years

2
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Archives of OS/360-ish public domain software?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> I've asked around at a couple of prominent computer museums, but >> they all just shrug their shoulders when I ask them how they >> archive and index the original software, like they've never considered >> it to be important. I really feel like I'm talking to all the >> wrong curators, because they seem to have no interest in the subject >> at all. >Assumptions like these don't take into account lack of staff or lack of >funding for such projects. I'm sure that's a good part of it. Another part of it is that I get the sense that most of the curators don't trust anyone else with what software they do have (whether it be punched cards or paper tape) and they'd rather just let it sit and rot away rather than do something to archive it. I'm not exactly a newbie to the field of archiving software and data - for example, the DECUS PDP-10 and PDP-11 software collections I maintain represent several thousand input tapes and floppies covering the last five decades, and Mentec will shortly be issuing CD's containing DEC PDP-11 OS archives I've archived over the years - but I get the feeling that I'm not "a member of the club" when it comes to dealing with museums and other archives. Maybe my technical background (physics, math, and computers) puts me at a severe disadvantage compared to folks who are trained to be museum curators or librarians. Whatever the reason, so far most of my offers to volunteer my equipment and time to archive the old software is simply ignored. Sometimes I get a polite letter back, but never do I get the impression that there's some coherent plan to usefully archive the old software. In some cases I'm told that archiving is flat out impossible for technical reasons (I once had a heated debate with a SI curator who insisted that 8" floppies couldn't be read or written anymore.) Or maybe I feel too strongly that all the stuff should be archived, and my strong feelings immediately put me in the "crackpot" category as far as museum curators are concerned. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years

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Choose Dumpster #1, Dumpster #2, Dumpster #3

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

For me something about dumpsters seems to have a siren call like mermaids luring ships on the rocks. My son laughs every time I'm driving down the street and all of a sudden announce, "is that a full dumpster over there?" My feeling is that when somebody puts stuff in the dumpster they are "saying it has no value", I just want to prove them wrong. Having the "eye" to find the value in the trash, to recognize "good stuff". I'm like an archeologist walking through an area looking at rocks hoping to find the fossil missing link. The auction location scenario is a contest to see who can discern the "true" value of stuff and convince everyone else to drop out. The vintage machine and software that may be for sale seem to be more of a "known" commodity. Maybe it's the adventure, the thrill of discovery, the agony of lifting trash to find the pearl. I haven't had a breakdown yet but it could be caused if I had to choose between 3 dumpsters being approached by a single trash truck. Wait a minute it could be worse, 3 dumpsters each being approached by a trash truck. Mike mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu

26 years

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Your dream computer room.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

From: Bill Sudbrink <bill(a)chipware.com> >spend some time with paper and crayon as a child designing the ideal >"fort"? What kind of computer shop would you build given sufficient >time/money/space? Wooha, now there a blue sky idea. Simple though, 1000sqft with net power drops from the ceiling, floor would not be raised but work benches for smaller systems plus a rolling work bench for doing repair work. One wall would be manuals and spares. Oh yes, Air conditioning for the bigger boxen and me too. Allison

26 years

1
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Price of our hobby

by allisonp＠world.std.com

From: r. 'bear' stricklin <red(a)bears.org> >I have to add my two cents to this. Yes, some companies will demand >degrees and expect to see a candidate with 100% conventional >background. In the tech sector, at least, these companies don't seem to be >in the norm and where they do exist, are the LEAST interesting companies >to work for. Over an extended period I encounterd a lot of old guard companies that fit that mold or worse have sterotypes on the brain. >Today I am 23 years old and have hit the top of my profession (UNIX >systems administration). In terms of technical knowledge, I outrank nearly It will make difference when your 47 and looking. >Not once has my lack of a degree affected my ability to find a job. In >fact, I am very up-front about my short-lived and extremely unglamourous >engagement at uni. With 30 years behind me and 6 major companies I can say at one time It didn't either for me. Then as athey say, I got old. >Yes, I am tooting my own horn here (quite loudly) but if I don't toot it, >I'm afraid the fact that a successful career can be built on things other >than advanced degrees may slip by unnoticed. Much truth to that, but some day it will come to you or someone with same expereince and he'll have the degree... >Will I go back to school? Yes. Will it be to get a technical degree? >Probably not. Divinity or theology are looking like likely candidates. Same here. I've visited from time to time for various courses but if I go for the degree electronics or computer will not be the focus either. Allison

26 years

1
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Minivac 601 documentation?

by Anthony.Eros＠compaq.com

Does anyone have any documentation for the Minivac 601? Is there anything on-line? I bought one via eBay (I thought $41 was a pretty reasonable price,) but it didn't come with any of the jumpers or books. When I was in high school, we had one, but it didn't work. It didn't have any documentation either.

26 years

2
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Time spent Looking VS time spent "Playing"

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>What do you do? How do you manage your "quality" time with your machines? >Do you feel guilty for neglecting that old (insert machine name here)? > >Francois Good point! I've generally stopped adding as I've reached space saturation and run out of possible time to operate the machines I dearly wanted. Yes, My old NS* is not getting enough time these days. Allison

26 years

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Is it time for an International Vintage Computer Association? Was: Yo

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Tue, 27 Jun 2000 09:48:53 -0700 Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> writes: > Isn't it also odd how the people with these "deep pockets" also seem > to get > a lot accomplished? You might want to look at that correlation and > see what > it means. Okay, if you want to take that tack on the subject, let's go: So you're saying that only the rich and powerful are *worthy* of a such as noble endeavor such as ours? So your saying: "Sorry, if you can't pay, you don't deserve to play". What a crock of shit. Accomplish what!?! All it means to me is, is that some guys can delude themselves into thinking that if they pour money into something, they can call it a hobby. They haven't go it. The only way to really appreciate what we do here (well, what *I* do anyway) is to get your "hands dirty" with this stuff. Maybe you can pay someone to do the work for you, but you're kidding yourself. > See comment #1. Those "priviledged few" are generally the people > that get > things done and manage their resources wisely. Personally, I would > not want > someone without the ability to manage having any control over my > collection. Oh, okay, so you're saying that if we can't pay the increasing cost of admission, we're deadbeats, is that it?!?! Try to tell that to the retired folks who have fixed incomes. Try to tell that to schoolkids who now equate computer=Wintel, and don't know that something existed before. Yeah, we're going to pass this all on, right? Yeah, when we're all dead, and there no one around to tell the story . . . Now as a matter of fact, I don't give a rat's ass about your collection. What you do with it is *your* business. What I *do* care about though, are the poor stiffs who would like to pursue computing as a hobby, but will instead have to find something else to do, because the prices are out of sight. Jeff ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

26 years

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OT: College

by PasserM＠umkc.edu

I'll be first in line to say college is a good thing, and worth the time, money, and effort expended to obtain a degree. Doing so right after high school is the path of least resistance--it _is_ harder when you're older (from experience). That said, any employer who ignores you because the time between your high school and college graduations is not the "standard interval" without so much as asking about it is doing him or herself (and his or her company) a disservice. There are pursuits other than rehab or prison that could have filled that time--such as having served in the Peace Corps, the military, or a real-world job--that might just have made a person who waited to go to college appreciate the opportunity laid before them. A person who did such a thing may well be a better candidate for it. While there is no shortage of the kind of people who will not take a second look at those whose resumes don't fit the mold, there are also plenty of others less closed minded who would likely be more satisfying to work for. --Mike

26 years

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Evil Lurker Won, Gets His Parts

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> It's true the DEC racks don't grow on trees, but their scrap value doesn't > pay for shipping and storage. Ask anybody who's got them. Likewise, the > PSU's cost a lot to move and store, but seldom bring benefit proportional to > the effort. > > What's wrong with letting this guy have what he wants? See, I'm not a DEC guy, so I really don't know how rare a MicroPDP-11/73 is (and how different they are or aren't >from a regular PDP-11). On the assumption that they don't make them anymore and thus are kinda rare, I thought it worthwhile to preserve/restore a nearly complete and almost operational system. And let me tell you how clean this thing was. Since the guy didn't want anything heavy, I picked up the TS05 tape drive out of the rack last night. The plexiglass tape door had not a scratch on it, nor did the rest of the unit. And no discoloration anywhere either. It had been used at the University of Louisville Medical School, and they took awesome care of it. I just thought it an ideal machine to save. After I looked at it even more carefully at home, I almost couldn't bring myself to remove the plexiglass door to replace the broken one on my Cipher F880. My Cipher isn't in nearly as good a shape. The two units aren't identical; while the TS05 is a Cipher F880, it doesn't support the 3200bpi density mine does. But I'll bet dollars to donuts that the mechanical assemblies are the same, so now I've got an excellent source of spares to keep my drive working. Now if i can just find a Prime 2301 Tape Controller... -doug q

26 years

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Evil Lurker Won, Gets His Parts

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> You do realize that PDP-11's are more than just cool toys don't you? There > are people/companies whose livelyhood depends on these systems and their > continueing to run. Nah, running a CAT scanner is just child's play. And AFAIC, I don't really want to play with a PDP-11; I just didn't want to see an otherwise complete system that was two components away from total restoration ripped to shreds! > The only thing I can see that the buyer did wrong was leaving the > powersupply! At least from what you've said I assume he left > it. If he went so far as to get the backplane he really should have > taken that. He's taking about a third, and leaving two thirds. The rack is staying behind too. But I guess DEC racks grow on trees. -dq

26 years

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Time spent Looking VS time spent "Playing"

by PasserM＠umkc.edu

I find that I don't spend enough time playing with the machines, but, then, I don't spend enough time searching, either :>. Seriously, I am in a similar situation, with every shelf available to me covered with computers and peripherals. I think from time to time about "thinning the herd" and choosing machines to specialize in--right about then, I come across something I know nothing about and get it! And thinning would require me to choose machines with which to part, which isn't easy. I _should_ start offering some items to the list soon! I do feel guilty for not firing up a variety of machines more often! --Mike

26 years

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Wang Professional-boot disk or docs?

by fauradon＠mn.mediaone.net

How can you find your computer without having had coffee? Francois >I apologize--that reply was meant to go off list. I >will remember not to reply to messages before having >had coffee in the future! >

26 years

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TRS-80

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

Just wondering, how rare is a model 12? I don't care about monetary value, this is a curiosity thing. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

26 years

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