- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by John.Honniball＠uwe.ac.uk

I've just been reading "Computer: A History of the Information Machine", by Martin Campbell-Kelly and WIlliam Aspray. It mentions the Altair 8800 (on page 240) and describes the front panel: When loaded, the program would run; but the only evidence of its execution was the change in the shifting pattern of the neon bulbs on the front. Neon bulbs? Did the Altair really have neon bulbs on the front panel? I would have expected LEDs -- can anyone clarify this, please? -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball(a)uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England

25 years, 1 month

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OT Iridium (Was: Re: classiccmp-digest V1 #615)

by mtapley＠swri.edu

Jason McBrien said: >...went to were the American History Museum and the Air and Space >museum. Both had special exhibits on information processing, and among the >highlights are: > ... >- -Processor modules from the Iridium (defunct) system ... Not yet, at any rate. My dad just got a phone from Motorola. Size of an old (70's) handy-talky, more or less. After some trouble figuring out the registration, dialing sequence, etc., he managed to phone home with it (Yes, his initials are BT - no Steven Spielberg puns, please) and there was a ~ 0.5 second delay between his lips moving and the sound coming out of the home phone (he was standing on the balcony at the time). Apparently DOD paid for the system and, to offset part of their cost, is marketing the hand units (through Worldcom) to the few customers who need communications where cell phones don't yet go. (Dad's going sailing in the North Sea, then to a launch site in the Ukraine.) I'm rambling - anyway, Iridium was still up, as of Sunday night. - Mark

25 years, 1 month

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Any Tektronix 4051, 5042, 4054, or 4662s or IBM 5100s outthere?

by Demon02554＠aol.com

Roanoake, eh? how big and how much private email please Robert Cobbins

25 years, 1 month

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Anyone ever seen a TRAN M3000?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

The computer mentioned in the subject may in fact be familiar to some of you (Sellam, notably...). It was a rebadged Computer Automation Alpha-16, with special software that provided for its use as a digital network switch. TRAN was also known as Computer Transmission Corp. of El Segundo, CA. Does anyone know what became of the company? In a few weeks, I'll put a diagram of the Indiana University Computing Network cira 1974 up on my web site so you can see the role it played. You'll need a WHIP! viewer (from Autodesk's web site) to view it. Regards, -dq

25 years, 1 month

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Seeking NeXT slab disk bracket

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

OK... so I have this NeXT slab (25 Mhz '040), I have some 30-pin SIMMs, and I have a 4Gb SCSI drive. I even have software. What I don't have is a bracket for the internal hard drive. Someone brought one to lunch today, and it appears to have a couple of feet that clip on to the edge of the case, and one screw hole on the other side. Is there a place I can get a proper drive bracket? I suppose I can make my own, but I'm not sure it will stay put on the non-screwed-in end. Thanks, -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

25 years, 1 month

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oops

by spectre＠stockholm.ptloma.edu

I mean, the Atlas II *does* have good heat tolerance because it's smaller! :-) Brain fart again. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Know what I hate most? Rhetorical questions. -- Henry N. Camp -------------

25 years, 1 month

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booting from RQDX3

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 1, 13:02, John Allain wrote: > >Yup, this is why third party disk controllers always include a > > 'boot rom' option. > > The sound I was looking for: ROM on card itself. > Now: How common? For third-party controllers, extremely common. For DEC controllers, rare; in fact I can't think of a single one that does. > Is this saying that DEC controllers will force moving the ROM > out to the bus term card as a seperate FRU? And is it really > always controller card resident for the 3rd partiers? Not necessarily or even usually on a bus terminator card. On the 11/24, 11/23+ and later Qbus processors (11/73+, 11/83, //53, 11/93), the ROMs are on the processor card. For many Unibus machines, and the Qbus processors that didn't weren't integrated with SLU, LTC, etc, it was often on a separate ROM card or a multifunction (SLU/LTC/RAM/ROM: MXV11-A or MXV11-B) card. The BDV11 used in 11/03 ansd 11/23 systems was unusual in being a combined terminator/clock/bootstrap card (like a TEV11 or REV11 with extras). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

25 years, 1 month

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booting from RQDX3

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jun 1, 14:45, Jonathan Engdahl wrote: > Putting a ROM on the disk controller at 173000 is the usual way > of doing it, but here's a slick alternative that is used on the > DSD 4140 floppy controller: > > There is no ROM onboard other than the microcode for the AMD > 2901 (one 4-bit slice!), but there is a single register mapped > onto the Qbus at 173000. If the PDP-11 jumps there, the > controller gives back a jump-to-self opcode. I've seen (indeed, own) another card that does that. I think it might be one of my Dilog cards, but it could be the GR RXV21. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

25 years, 1 month

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Call for Resources for CDC 6000/Cyber 70 Series Emulator

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 07:57 AM 6/1/01 -0400, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: >> > Hmmm.. Don't remember that, but I do remember Empire, >> > and some other Star Trek game... as well as the coolest >> > LISP and Pascal interpreter environments I ever used. > >It *did* auto-format the code... but as these were the earliest >examples of what I think was incremental compiler technology, >you'd be typing the source text, and when you committed a syntax >error, the offending element was highlighted by a dashed-lined >circle, and further entry stopped until you corrected your >mistake. This sounds like the Cornell Program Synthesizer developed by long-time Cornell professor Tim Teitelbaum. It was used to teach Pascal to tens of thousands of students at several large universities in the early 80s, on Teraks and perhaps other computers. I think he gets the credit for developing the first practical language-sensitive editor, the progenitor of most IDEs out there today. - John

25 years, 1 month

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booting from RQDX3

by engdahl＠cle.ab.com

How does a PDP-11 boot from an RQDX3 controller? I have several 11/23's based on the KDF11-AA CPU, which has no on-board boot ROM. The Andromeda UDC11 disk controller that most of these use contains the boot ROM. These machines are in a 4-slot dual-wide card cage which is full. There is the CPU, a memory card, the disk controller, and a serial card. A couple of these machines are missing the disk controller. RQDX3's seem to be readily available, and there is adequate documentation of the card on the web (jumpers, cable pinouts, etc). Will the KDF11-AA be able to boot from an RQDX3? If not, can anyone suggest an good alternative? -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 24800 Tungsten Road Advanced Technology Euclid, OH 44117 USA Euclid Labs http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl

25 years, 1 month

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dumping dec docs

by oliv555＠arrl.net

Just saved these PDP11 related docs from being dumped. 1st come, 1st served, you pay postage. Priority to individual requests, ie: anyone wanting "all of them" can have all that remain unclaimed after 24 hrs (Sat morning). Not wanting to offend anyone, just going from prior experience and my wish to fill as many individual "want" lists as possible. Please direct your requests off-list to oliv555(a)arrl.net. Thanks. - BM873-YA Restart loader Engineering Drawings (no cover sheet) - DLV11-J (M-8043) SLU Users Guide - FP11-B floating-point processor engineering drawings - KB11-A (11/45) CPU Maint. Manual - LPV11-V (M8027) Field Maint. Print Set - LP11 line printer manual - LP11/LS11/LA11 line printer manual - (5) MF11-u/up (core) Memory Engineering Drawings one set has the original cover, other 4 are missing cover - MS11-C bipolar memory (1k) engineering drawings - MS11-E Engineering drawings (M-7847) (missing cover) - PC04/PC05 paper-tape reader/punch maint manual - PDP 11/45 MS11 Semiconductor Memory Systems Maint. Manual - RK05-J Engineering drawings (no cover) - CR11 kit: CR11/CM11 card reader system manual CR11 card reader engineering drawings (missing cover) - LP05 kit: Dataproducts 2230 (LP05) Tech manual Dataproducts 2230 Logic Diagrams - RLxx kit: RL01/02 User Guide RL01/02 Technical Manual (prelim.) (in a 3-ring binder) - RT11 kit: Intro to RT11 (v03) RT11 System Generation Manual (v03b) RT11 System Release Notes (v03b) (in a 3-ring binder) I expect most will fall into the basic $3.50 USPS priority rate, a few may be a bit more. Enjoy :>) ..... nick o

25 years, 1 month

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SCSI or Voodoo?

by CARL.P.HIRSCH＠sargentlundy.com

That's okay, only 50 meg is going to be Mac OS... everything else will be A/UX partitions for NetBSD! ;) thanks, -carl Douglas Quebbeman <dhquebbeman@theestopinal To: "'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org'" group.com> <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Sent by: cc: owner-classiccmp@classicc Subject: RE: SCSI or Voodoo? mp.org 06/01/01 12:35 PM Please respond to classiccmp > Assuming that the listing is correct and that it is a > 50pin narrow SCSI drive, it should work fine on the Quadra. However... I *think* you'll need OS 8.1 or later to format a drive that large as a single volume. Formatted as two 2GB partitioned, you should have no trouble using older Mac OS's. Regards, -dq

25 years, 1 month

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SCSI or Voodoo?

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> >Well, since the Mac Quadra 700 is of 91 vintage, it looks > like I can ask questions about it... > >I found this on teamexcess.com - > > ST15150N Seagate 3.5" 4.3GB 1.6" Half Height SCSI H-ST-15150N > > Narrow 50-pin > >Assuming the jumpers are set correctly, should this work > internally in a Quadra 700? > > Assuming that the listing is correct and that it is a > 50pin narrow SCSI drive, it should work fine on the Quadra. However... I *think* you'll need OS 8.1 or later to format a drive that large as a single volume. Formatted as two 2GB partitioned, you should have no trouble using older Mac OS's. Regards, -dq

25 years, 1 month

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old date plz

by feryl＠bigpond.com.au

Dear sir I,m write to you about a lap top computer,Taht i,ve found on a job site they where beening disgared so i kept one. But the poeblm with it is I get a (ple wait) come up then it go to (- ) then it run a driver then stop. I think the programs have been deleaded , i was wondering if i could get a restart programs for it could you help me the model is a Amstrad PPC640S portable personal computer . If you can help me i would be very happle. My email adress is austn29j(a)icqmail.com Anything to help would be good. from Rodney Thank you

25 years, 1 month

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Offered: classic manuals

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Quoting "r. 'bear' stricklin" <red(a)bears.org>: > > - TRS-80 Level II BASIC Reference Manual. 2nd ed. 1979. ca. > > Wow, can I buy that one from you? That book introduced me as a kid > to programming, and (with the help of Tron and Wargames) made me > who I am! If he doesn't let go of it, get back to me, I think that's the trash-80 book I pulled off a garbage pile a few years back. It won't be in pristine condition, of course. Just lemme know... Regards, -doug quebbeman

25 years, 1 month

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SCSI or Voodoo?

by jhellige＠earthlink.net

>Well, since the Mac Quadra 700 is of 91 vintage, it looks like I can ask >questions about it... >I found this on teamexcess.com - > ST15150N Seagate 3.5" 4.3GB 1.6" Half Height SCSI H-ST-15150N > Narrow 50-pin >Assuming the jumpers are set correctly, should this work internally in a >Quadra 700? Assuming that the listing is correct and that it is a 50pin narrow SCSI drive, it should work fine on the Quadra. Jeff

25 years, 1 month

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Call for Resources for CDC 6000/Cyber 70 Series Emulator

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > Hmmm.. Don't remember that, but I do remember Empire, > > and some other Star Trek game... as well as the coolest > > LISP and Pascal interpreter environments I ever used. > > Please elaborate! > > -- Derek (hoping for watchpoints or formatted display of > the source code -- i.e., with italics or proportional spacing) It *did* auto-format the code... but as these were the earliest examples of what I think was incremental compiler technology, you'd be typing the source text, and when you committed a syntax error, the offending element was highlighted by a dashed-lined circle, and further entry stopped until you corrected your mistake. I only got to spend a couple of months on PLATO. But a team at Northwestern University liked PLATO enough but was bummed about the cost of the special terminals that the developed a CDC subsystem called MultiTutor, which ran the Tutor IV language (and thus you could port PLATO programs to it), but worked not only with the PLATO terminals, but with any kind of terminal that offerred at least cursor control codes. MultiTutor's coolest feature was the first example of what we'd now call a chat room. Instead of a scrolling display with lines of user-typed text prefixed by a username, you got a display segmented into channels, each of which was occupied by a user. What that user typed appeared in that channel on the screen. It was thus limited in the number of users it could support, but it was easier (IMHO) to follow a multiperson conversation. When I came to UN*Xen finally, I tried NTalk and YTalk for a while, but IRC has just never worked for me... I always want to go back to that MultiTutor chat room... Regards, -dq

25 years, 1 month

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Altair 8800b Turnkey & Front Panel

by celt＠chisp.net

This was donated to me about a week ago; my collection interests are 80s-era 8-bit micros and heathkit items. I have no knowledge of S-100 computers, and would prefer this go to someone who has the knowledge and interest to maintain it. Contact me off-list if you want it. - Mike http://tarnover.dyndns.org/ Tarnover - The Apple II Repository

25 years, 1 month

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booting from RQDX3

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 31, 4:45, John Allain wrote: > Would 30+ lines of assembly always be required? I've lost the context that prompted that particualr question, but if you're asking if a bootstrap always needs 30+ lines of instructions, no, some are much shorter than that. This is the bootstrap for a TU10 magtape: 100000 012700 MOV #0172526, R0 ; TM11 (TU10) MTCMA magtape current memory addr 100002 172526 100004 010040 MOV R0, -(R0) ; byte count, 2's compl, -2730 allows up to 2730 100010 012740 MOV #060003, -(R0) ; MTC command reg: 800bpi 9-trk, odd parity, 100012 060003 ; unit 0, no IRQ, extended bits zeroed, read+go 100014 000777 BR 0100014 This is the code for an RXV21 (RX02 floppy controller) which is one of the longer ones (the comments are mine): 1 000000 ; RXV21_boot From Microcomputer Interfaces Handbook 1983-84, page 484 2 000000 ; Use ODT to enter, then set RS=340, R6=1000, R7=1000, then P 3 000000 ; 4 000000 ORG O1000 5 001000 ; 6 001000 012700 MOV #O100240,R0 6 001002 100240 7 001004 012701 MOV #O177170,R1 ; RXCSR 7 001006 177170 8 001010 005002 CLR R2 9 001012 012705 MOV #O200,R5 9 001014 000200 10 001016 012704 MOV #O401,R4 ; track 1, sector 1 10 001020 000401 11 001022 012703 MOV #O177172,R3 ; RXDBR 11 001024 177172 12 001026 030011 BIT R0,(R1) 13 001030 001776 BEQ $-4 ; wait for TransferReq or Done 14 001032 100437 BMI O1132 ; branch if ERR set 15 001034 012711 MOV #O407,(R1) ; set DDens, Read, Go 15 001036 000407 16 001040 030011 BIT R0,(R1) ; wait for TR 17 001042 001776 BEQ $-4 18 001044 100432 BMI O1132 ; branch if ERR set 19 001046 110413 MOVB R4,(R3) ; give sector number 20 001050 000304 SWAB R4 ; swap track and sector 21 001052 030011 BIT R0,(R1) ; wait for TR 22 001054 001776 BEQ $-4 23 001056 110413 MOVB R4,(R3) ; give track number 24 001060 000304 SWAB R4 ; swap sector and track 25 001062 030011 BIT R0,(R1) ; wait for TR 26 001064 001776 BEQ $-4 27 001066 100421 BMI O1132 28 001070 012711 MOV #O403,(R1) ; EmptyBuffer (DDens) command 28 001072 000403 29 001074 030011 BIT R0,(R1) ; wait for TR 30 001076 001776 BEQ $-4 31 001100 010414 MOV R4,(R4) ; save sector number 32 001102 010513 MOV R5,(R3) ; set word count=256 33 001104 030011 BIT R0,(R1) 34 001106 001776 BEQ $-4 ; wait for done 35 001110 100410 BMI O1132 36 001112 010213 MOV R2,(R3) ; set address=0 37 001114 060502 ADD R5,R2 ; increment... 38 001116 060502 ADD R5,R2 ; ...address 39 001120 122424 CMPB (R4)+,(R4)+ ; bump R4 by 2 and clear all flags 40 001122 120427 CMPB R4,#3 ; sectors 1 and 3 get done 40 001124 000003 41 001126 003735 BLE O1022 ; loop if not finished 42 001130 012700 MOV #0,R0 42 001132 000000 43 001134 005007 CLR PC ; go to address zero 44 001136 120427 CMPB R4,#0 ; dummy operation, pipelined but not executed 44 001140 000000 > I thought DEC 11's all did higher level booting with a memory > mapped address in the pre-Vax and with named console > devices in the Vaxes. > > Are you then saying that adding a disk controller card always > requires adding a matching boot (E(P(ROM))? ('Duuh' -JEA) There has to be *some* code *somewhere*, and different controllers need different boot code (if only because they have the registers at different addresses). There isn't any ROM on a KDF11-A or KDJ11-A, so you need there to be some bootstrap code on one of the other cards. Third-party controllers often have unique boot code on the card. Most DEC controllers rely on a boot ROM being on a special bootstrap board (like a BDV11, which also has a line time clock and bus terminators), a ROM board (like an MRV11-D) or a multifunction card (MXV11, which also has DRAM memory, clock, and serial lines for the console and one other serial device). Most of the DEC bootstraps for Qbus systems offer a choice of boot options (different disks, network, etc) and in addition will do a simple memory test (or at least write to it to ensure the parity or ECC is correct); many of the later ones are interactive. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

25 years, 1 month

1
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Apple Turnover?(OT long, boring, maybe humor)

by Lee.Davison＠merlincommunications.com

Ho humm.... -----Original Message----- From: McFadden, Mike [SMTP:mmcfadden@cmh.edu] Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 5:07 PM To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' Subject: Re: Apple Turnover?(OT long, boring, maybe humor) Little know facts about apple turnovers. [cut] to be turned over. The only successful installation is in the International Space Station where gravity is not a factor so the apple will turn over due to convection currents in the air flow. That's where the term convection Err .. no gravity = no convection. This brought to mind some show I was watching about Space Shuttle. The narator said .. "The astronaughts don't sleep lying down because in orbit there is no gravity. They sleep standing up." Huh? Lee. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. _____________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call 01285 884400.

25 years, 1 month

1
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Atari 400 & 800XL Power Supply Question

by univac2＠earthlink.net

Quick Question - Do the Atari 400 and 800XL use the same power supply?

25 years, 1 month

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Another way to kill the classics

by rhblake＠bigfoot.com

HP's on the bandwagon to scrap the old iron and make room for them to sell LOTS more....see this http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/feature_stories/takeback.htm

25 years, 1 month

4
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MS-DOS cross assembler for HP211x machines.

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > For those interested in a cross assemlber for theHP mini's... > > I found C source code for a HP 2100 cross assemlber on the HP2100 > archive site (which seems to be down today). I think Jeff's site is hosted on his workstation... it probably kills the performance of the station when it's getting hit a lot. I've also downloaded the complete contents of this site, so I can forward items if you can't get them otherwise. > Not being a C person (that is, not able to read C, much less code in > it), I handed a copy over to a friend who tinkers with C a little. > He managed to convert the original source into something that would > compile on what he described as an obsolete C compiler (Borland?). For those of you who would prefer to use a more modern compiler, and who can run a 32-bit version of Windows, there is a version of the Gnu Compiler Collection (GCC) that runs in a Win32 Console Session (not really a DOS box, but close enough), I recommend you search for this particular package: gcc-2.95.2-crtdll.exe Unpacked, it's 23MB, and all you need after unpacking it (it's self-extracting) is to set your PATH to the bin folder of the directory into which you install it. At any rate, hpasm.c compiled with no changes, as did chkabs.c. OTOH, I have not yet tried to assemble the sources for the MSU 4-user BASIC and compare the binary output to the existing binary he has on the site. So, the proof remains in the pudding... Regards, -dq

25 years, 1 month

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Can anyone here burn a MMI6309 PROM for a Lisa?

by jlewczyk＠speakeasy.net

I'm looking for help making a 256*8 Tri-state PROM for the CPU card of a Lisa. Its a MMI 6409-1N part. I don't have a data sheet and I don't have the means to burn one. If I supply the part and the data, can anyone here burn a few of them for me? Alleged parts equivilent to the MMI 6409-1N are: Signetics 82S135 National 74S471 TI 28L22 Reply to me off list via jlewczyk(a)speakeasy.net if you'd prefer. Thanks John ---------------------------- classiccmp digest subscriber

25 years, 1 month

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Washington D.C. Trip

by jlewczyk＠speakeasy.net

Jason, I agree that those museums are a MUST SEE for any vintage computer enthusiast! You forgot to mention (did you miss it?) that they have the origional "Mark-8 Microcomputer" that Jon Titus built as found on the cover of Radio Electronics in 1974! It was right next to the micros and micro magazines exhibit. Jon was a guest at VCF in 1999. I reckon that the burn-in on the Xerox Alto was an early "desktop theme" or "screen saver" (did the Alto have that feature?). If I recall correctly it reminded me of cartoon-like butterflies, flowers, or a bee or something like that. There were a number of Altos placed into service at the White House for use by secretaries there, and perhaps one of those is what ended up at the nearby Smithsonian. I understand that the secretaries that got to use them, loved 'em. Its a pity that none of the computers on display at the the museum actually are working. I think that is a major flaw in their presentation. I found the videos running as part of the Enigma exhibit and the Eniac exhibits to be particularly interesting. John Lewczyk jlewczyk(a)speakeasy.net classiccmp digest subscriber > Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 13:57:30 -0400 > From: "Jason McBrien" <jbmcb(a)hotmail.com> > Subject: Washington D.C. Trip > > Didn't get anything from anywhere on my extended Memorial Day vacation to > Washington D.C. (Mostly running through museums) But I highly reccomend it > to anyone interested in historical computing devices. The main Smithsonian > museums I went to were the American History Museum and the Air and Space > museum. Both had special exhibits on information processing, and among the > highlights are: > *snip*

25 years, 1 month

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Call for Resources for CDC 6000/Cyber 70 Series Emulator

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

Howdy! I'm gathering the resources necessary to build an emulator for the CDC 6000 Series, Cyber 70 Series, and Cyber 170 Series mainframes. I'll be pulling together existing works-in-progress and using Bob Supnik's SIMH as a framework. The fruits of this labor will be freely available to any and all, as with the DEC emulators. As to the CDC-owned software, efforts are underway which are hoped will lead to a hobbyist license, a la DEC's. I have a good start on the manuals I need (kept some from years ago, will acquire others). Additionally, I've sent two of my four old CDC 9-track tapes to be read and placed on CD-ROM as images. If any of you (whom I have not already been in contact with) have any printed source listings, coredumps, or best of all, 9- or 7-track tapes containing operating systems (the CDCs used a deadstart tape and a system library tape), would you be willing to have the tapes imaged-to-disk, and make the images available to this project? Thanks in advance, -doug quebbeman

25 years, 1 month

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Museum Computers (was Re: Washington D.C. Trip

by Robert_Feldman＠jdedwards.com

The Exploratorium devotes a fairly large amount of resources to exhibit maintenance, so they have more operational exhibits than most museums of their type. As to making stronger I/O devices, the first thing you need to do is observe a bunch of grade school/middle school kids when they come to a computer in a museum exhibit: they don't look at what they are supposed to do, they just start _pounding_ on the keyboard/input. What we did at the Field Museum of Natural History in Chicago (where I designed and programmed 10+ computer "interactives" for exhibits in the early 90's) was to use arcade-game trackballs and switches made by Happ Controls. At the time we started, these trackballs were not PC compatible. They did use standard slotted wheel sensors, though, so I just desoldered the sensors from the circuit board of an inexpensive Microsoft compatible mouse and ran wires to the sensors on the trackball instead. The mouse switches were also removed and wired to separate game-unit buttons. I made the first interface about 10 years ago, and I am still using it (at this very moment, in fact, hooked to an IBM laptop.) It's in a big foam-core box (10x9x4 inches), so it is not the sharpest looking thing, but it has never given me any trouble in 10 years of use. (Try that with a mouse!) Some museums use touch screens, but at that time, we could not find any that were reliable enough and precise enough. I later did a game fro the Brookfield Zoo that used a touch screen, but needed to use large on-screen "buttons" with good separation to get reliable picking. Using a trackball for input means that any character/numeric input must be done through on-screen selection, which is a bit klunky, but better than having a non-working exhibit. The one program that used (and still uses) keyboard input is the "Voyaging Game" located in the back of the Pacific exhibit (a dark and quiet area). It has benches in front of the screens for the users to sit at. Here, in a more tranquil setting, the visitors do not pound on the keyboards, so they have survived fairly well. (They even survived having holes drilled through them, when some exhibit installers mounted a label on the case surface above the keyboard, and drilled too far!) The biggest problem is someone will occassionally pop off a keycap, even though they are recessed in the case. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Cheponis [mailto:mac@Wireless.Com] Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 12:05 PM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Museum Computers (was Re: Washington D.C. Trip Perhaps these so-called "museums" need to visit SF's Exploratorium? There, everything is meant to be "hands-on". This doesn't mean that things don't break from time to time, but the percentage of operational exhibits there is greater than any other public museum I've seen. Mind you, I'm not saying people should put an Eniac cabinet out where people can slobber over it, but I think it would be cool to be able to remote-control these older machines (I dunno, like a 360/50 or something) via modern interfaces - safely away from the original equipment, but yet behind glass - so you can see the original machine running. So yeah, Chuck, I agree! -Mike On Thu, 31 May 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 09:04:39 -0700 > From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com> > Reply-To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Museum Computers (was Re: Washington D.C. Trip > > > >The problem with working machines with millions of people tocuhing them over > >the years > >is that the machines tend to break. Even the modern display terminals > >used for > >presentation are > >in constant need of repair due to fingers smashing and otherwise folks that > >don't respect the equipment out of common courtesy. Computers don't hold up > >well to abuse. Its a shame but the way that it is. > >Eric > > > This is one of the problems I think would be fun to attack if I had a > suitable patron. Building I/O devices that could stand up to the kind of > abuse that museums get. > >

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Heathkit H89 - no vertical

by claudew＠videotron.ca

Hi I got a H89 with was seems like intermittent vertical problem. The usual jiggling, tapping and connector checking does not seem to get the vertical going or not. It was there at a few power ons. Yoke ok, 330uf on board just before yoke connector was replaced because suspect. Id like the schematics (scanned/emailed would be fine) for the board in the bottom of the H89 (video circuit). Thanks Claude http://computer_collector.tripod.com

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booting from RQDX3

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 31, 8:41, Jonathan Engdahl wrote: > > [ Attachment (multipart/alternative): 2810 bytes ] > A couple of these machines are missing the disk controller. RQDX3's seem > to be readily available, and there is adequate documentation of the card > on the web (jumpers, cable pinouts, etc). Will the KDF11-AA be able to > boot from an RQDX3? Not in the sense of running boot code from an RQDX3 as it has no boot ROM. It's possible to use a KDF11-A or KDJ11-A with an MXV11-B -- those were common combinations -- with the MXV providing RAM, SLUs, and boot ROM in a single slot. An alternative is an MRV11-D which supports the same boot ROMs. Or you could use microPDP-11 boot ROMs in a modified BDV11, but that would take up two slots. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

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er

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 31, 8:14, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Speaking of IBM timeclocks, look at this baby in the IBM museum in > Singelfinded, Germany: > http://www.siconic.com/crap/IBM%20Time%20Clock%20(IBM%20Museum,%20Singelfin… Er, don't you mean Sindelfingen, Sellam? :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

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TRS-80 Clones

by jhellige＠earthlink.net

>From: Eric Dittman <dittman(a)dittman.net> >> What I meant was Dennis's personal LNW-80. As a fan of his articles >> and book, being able to buy his personal LNW-80 was neat. >I agree... I also bought a Model 1 monitor off him long time ago. ;) And >speaking of LNW... Anyone have docs (service or any) for the LNW (bare >board) EI for the Model 1? That's like a couple of years ago I had the opportunity to buy Roy Soltoff's TRS-80 Model 2000 he had bought for development purposes. He even had the original receipt with it. It's nice knowing the history of a given machine. Jeff

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TRS-80 Clones

by dittman＠dittman.net

Along with VAX, Alpha, and PDP-11, I collect TRS-80s. I've got three different clone TRS-80s. One is the Cyzern 7000, which I built myself from a kit. I've had this one for a long time. The other is Dennis Bathory-Kitsz's LNW-80, which I bought from him. The other one I have is one I've never heard of before. I got the unit in a bunch of other TRS-80 equipment. The case is a hacked TRS-80 Model I keyboard, with a standard TRS-80 Model I keyboard with built-in keypad (very late Model I keyboard). The power, video, and cassette connectors are a match for the Model I. The CPU board has a built-in floppy disk controller, and is a Model III clone. The manufacturer appears to have been Norcom. -- Eric Dittman dittman(a)dittman.net

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What is this Apple printer?

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

Hi all, I need to know what the name of an Apple A90303 printer is, hard to test the sucker when you don't know the name (e.g., ImageWriter II, etc.) Thanks, Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

25 years, 1 month

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Call for Resources for CDC 6000/Cyber 70 Series Emulator

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Does this mean I might eventually run PLATO on a > simh-emulated CYBER system? Not an impossibility, but we gotta have an OS before we can even think about running PLATO... > Now, if I could just remember how to play 'Airfight'... :-) Hmmm.. Don't remember that, but I do remember Empire, and some other Star Trek game... as well as the coolest LISP and Pascal interpreter environments I ever used. -dq

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Washington D.C. Trip

by Demon02554＠aol.com

DC always has some nice stuff and the best part is that the Smithsonian is free I'm out there most weekends, and have seen the "Computers and Flight" exhibit several times... although i haven't been into the American History Museum in a long time...I'm gonna need to check that out...as soon as i can...maybe this weekend later, Robert Cobbins

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no HD Disks in 1541/71 and hub rings

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 30, 20:47, Larry Anderson wrote: > As for hub rings I heard they were required (for gripping purposes) for > the older Apple drives (the metal boxy ones), maybe even for the 4040s, > but I know without them on those old lever drives, you could sure mangle > a non-protected center hole clamping down on one. Yes, the main reason for hub rings was to minimise the damage when you did that :-) Our Apple Disk ][s and Commodore 4040/8050 drives never needed disks with hub rings when they were new, and the ones I have now still don't. > Anyone have a hub-ring kit still? (reminds me of today's CD stompers) Alas, no. I remember them, though. > > As others have said, you need disks intended for single-density or double > > density, not HD. I've also met one 1541 owner who swears that disks > > without hub rings won't work in his drive (and never did) because the > > mechanism doesn't grip them tightly enough (though I'm fairly sure that's > > just due to a soft spring or a missing screw on the frame somewhere). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

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no HD Disks in 1541/71 and hub rings

by foxnhare＠jps.net

> Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 07:09:51 GMT > From: pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) > Subject: Re: New HD disks not working in 1541? > > On May 30, 3:52, Gunther Schadow wrote: > > > now that I have my old C64 setup back I found that I could not > > format newer 5.25" HD disks on the 1541 or 1571. Yep DD even reccomended for the 8050,8250 or SFD1001 (which are quad density drives), HDs 3.5" kinda work in 1581s but also aren't reccommended. Over the past few years I've cleaned out our local 'dollar'ish stores of 5.25" disk 10-packs when they get em. As for hub rings I heard they were required (for gripping purposes) for the older Apple drives (the metal boxy ones), maybe even for the 4040s, but I know without them on those old lever drives, you could sure mangle a non-protected center hole clamping down on one. Anyone have a hub-ring kit still? (reminds me of today's CD stompers) > As others have said, you need disks intended for single-density or double > density, not HD. I've also met one 1541 owner who swears that disks > without hub rings won't work in his drive (and never did) because the > mechanism doesn't grip them tightly enough (though I'm fairly sure that's > just due to a soft spring or a missing screw on the frame somewhere). -- 01000011 01001111 01001101 01001101 01001111 01000100 01001111 01010010 01000101 Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (209) 754-1363 300-14.4k bps Classic Commodore pages at: http://www.jps.net/foxnhare/commodore.html 01000011 01001111 01001101 01010000 01010101 01010100 01000101 01010010 01010011

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Amazing Computing Projects from yesterday vol.1 (or What needing do...)

by SPEDRAJA＠mail.ono.es

Hello. I'd like some of yours take a time to read this document that can be located in the URL http://www.cagindia.org/reports/commercial/1991_book11/annexureI.htm It's dated in 1991. It contains some amazing projects. Oh, by the way, finally we know where goes all these old irons lost: to India. And I appoint the convenience to try contact this guy to know if some of these projects was completed (mainly the diskette unit for the IBM 1401, or the COBOL compiler for this same computer). Regards Sergio Pedraja ---------- ANNEXURE-I (Referred to in Para 9.1.5) Projects undertaken under Research & Development Activities. 1. System Integration Project. To integrate an optimum medium large computer system with the processor and peripherals from various sources. 2. Add-on memory for EC-1030 system. To design and provide indigenously additional memory to EC-1030 computer system. 3. Enhancement to computer system with Line Printer and Card Reader add-on. 4. Enhancement to computers with disk and console sub-system add-on. 5. IBM 1401 enhancement project- to provide a faster processor with a larger memory and additional instruction set, keeping the same peripheral. 6. Add-on memory for EC-1040 computer system. To design and provide indigenously additional memory to EC-1040 computer system. 7. Input/output controllers for low speed peripherals such as card reader and line printer. 8. Computer enhancements with indigenous communication terminus. 9. Development of IBM 1401 simulator programme on R-1040 computer system. 10. Development of application software for gross industry application packages. 11. Enhancement of IBM 1620 computer system. To design and develop enhancement logic and interface hardware to attach a line printer. 12. Evaluation of Robotron Card Punch and verifier Model I. 13. Evaluation of Hindustan Teleprinter High Speed paper tape reader. 14. Evaluation of Robotron Card punch and verifier Model II. 15. Enhancement of Card Reader speed of IBM 447 Electronic Accounting Machine. 16. Enhancement of IBM 024 card punch to enable it to become 64 character machine from 48 character machine. 17. Design and development to replace obsolete assemblies in IBM unit red cord machines with indigenously available components. 18. Development of parts used in computer system. 19. Development of logic card test equipment. 20. Application software development on LSI-II Computer System. 21. 1620 Memory Enhancement. 22. 024/056 Logic in TTL/CMOS. 23. IBM Unit Record Machine replacement study. 24. Info Scriber 25. Special keyboards for Indian languages. 26. LSI-11 based online enquiry system directory enquiry etc. 27. Medical equipment based on micro-processors. 28. New Products like fibre optics special printers, bubbles etc. 29. Evaluation of l/D's. 30. pcb Card Repair Project. 31. Development of maintenance technique, diagnostic test equipment for effective maintenance. 32. Mini based system for RJE and Data Entry. 33. Graphic sub system. 34. Data based application packages. 35. Interactive Data Communication application packages. 36. Special application packages. 37. Image sub system. 38. Development of interactive work station. 39. Development of Computer System using mini computer network. 40. Hybrid system integration. 41. Floppy disc interface to IBM 1401 system. To design and develop a floppy disc interface to IBM 1401 system. 42. Development of COBOL compiler for enhancement of IBM 1401 processor. 43. Teleprinter interface job unit for mini computer. 44. Message switching system with micro processors. 45. Process control application with micro processors. 46. Communication application with micro processors and mini systems.

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As400 question

by terryf＠intersurf.com

Sorry, posted to wrong group Terry

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No subject

by terryf＠intersurf.com

I've got a 9404-400 running v4r5. The system has a Qic tape drive and CD. I have a 8mm drive that I want to add to the system. The expansion chassis has room and open connectors. I hooked up the new drive, but I cannot seem to make the system 'see' it. What do I need to do to make the system see the drive so I can use it?? Any suggestions are appreciated, Thanks in advance Terry

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Offered: classic manuals

by red＠bears.org

Part two in the on-going saga: Apple Computer - Apple II "The DOS Manual". 1981. 200pp. Commodore Business Machines - Commodore 64 Programmer's Reference Guide. 1st ed, 5th printing. 1983. 490pp. - Commodore 64 User's Guide. 1st ed, 5th printing. 1983. 170pp. - Commodore 64 User's Manual. 1984. 210pp. - Commodore C128-40, B128-80, B256-80 User's Guide. 1st ed, 1st printing. 1983. 120pp. - Compute!'s First Book of VIC. 1982. 215pp. - Disk System User Reference Guide (2031, 404, 8050, CBM hard disk). 1982. 100pp. - Personal Computing on the VIC-20: a friendly computer guide. 5th ed, 2nd printing. 1982. 165pp. (3x) - User's Manual for CBM 5.25" Dual Floppy Disk Drives (2040, 3040, 4040, 8050). 4th printing. 1983. 100pp. - VIC-20 Cartridge Development; Paul Higginbottom, Commodore Canada. pp. 121-123, photocopied. "Power-Up Activity"; "BASIC Programs in a Cartridge"; "Cartridge Standards". - VIC-20 Programmer's Reference Guide. 1st ed, 2nd or 4th printing. 1983. 290pp. (3x) - VIC-1515 Graphic Printer User's Manual. 1st. ed. 1981. 40pp. - VIC-1541 User's Manual. 2nd Ed. 1982. 60pp. Data General Corporation - Nova Minicomputers Instruction Reference Card. 1972. Photocopied. (2x) Silicon Graphics, Inc. - Indigo Magic Desktop: Understanding the Basics. 1994. 13pp. - Indy Workstation Owner's Guide. Mar 1995. 250pp. Tandy Corporation - TRS-80 Level II BASIC Reference Manual. 2nd ed. 1979. ca. 100pp. (2x) ok r.

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Apple Turnover?(OT long, boring, maybe humor)

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

Little know facts about apple turnovers. 1. The hard part is convincing the apple to turn over when it's done on one side. A human analogy is how do you convince a sleeping sunbather to turn over when they are burnt on one side. 2. There have been government funded trials of robot arm based image analysis programs that will automate the process for only $10,000 per apple to be turned over. The only successful installation is in the International Space Station where gravity is not a factor so the apple will turn over due to convection currents in the air flow. That's where the term convection oven comes from. 3. There are also CIA funded research to examine whether there is a "apple turnover gap" due to Russian experiments with apples and psychic phenomena. 4. Apple turnover is a code word that Echelon uses to identify Russian defectors. apples are red and Russians are red, defectors are turncoats or turnovers. Russian defector=red apple turnover 5. Board game http://www.gamesdomain.com/GDLive/1201.html 6. Q: When does an apple turnover? A: Who Cares I'm digressing! Mike McFadden mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu

25 years, 1 month

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New HD disks not working in 1541?

by gunther＠aurora.regenstrief.org

Hi, now that I have my old C64 setup back I found that I could not format newer 5.25" HD disks on the 1541 or 1571. It just bumps and blinks and stops. Does the 1541 require hard sectored disk? I don't think so, because I can still remember today that my first disk ever said "BASF Flexi Disk, 5.25", Singled Side, Double Density, Soft Sector." So what's the trick to get media working? Bulk eraser? (BTW: It's been over 15 years and I still have that disk and could actually read one side of it, that's fun!) thanks -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow(a)regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org

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New HD disks not working in 1541?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 30, 14:23, Roger Merchberger wrote: > HD disks AFAIK won't work at all in any DD drive - the TPI (Tracks Per > Inch) are different. DD disks are 48TPI, HD disks are 96TPI. I have to say that this is not true. Plenty of DD disks are rated for 96 or 100 tpi. Furthermore, at the microscopic level, there is no difference between a DD disk sold for 96 tpi and one sold as 48 tpi. There might be more gross defects in older sold-as-48 tpi disk than in 96 tpi ones, I admit, and that could produce an error when narrow tracks are written. Nevertheless, the magnetic coercivity of the disk is the same in both cases. The difference between HD and DD is NOTHING to do with tracks per inch, it's ENTIRELY to do with the coercivity (which is a measure of the field strength required to produce the magentic polarisation used to write the data). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

25 years, 1 month

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New HD disks not working in 1541?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 30, 11:02, Gene Buckle wrote: > I don't ever recall seeing a HD disk with a hub ring. The only ones that > have them in my experience is the SD or DD disks. Oh, I've seen quite a few HD disks with hub rings. But most of the disks I've seen with hub rings have been relatively recent DD/SD. However, the reason I menmtioned it was that the 1541 owner insisted that she needed DD disks *because they had hub rings*, not because they are the correct coercivity; in fact she said she'd used a few HD disks but the lack of hub rings on some of them caused them not to work. So told her she was using the right disks (DD) but for the wrong reason. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

25 years, 1 month

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HP 150 FA

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I just found a HP 150 for sale on E-bay. Here's the URL for anyone that's interested. "http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1239995325". Joe

25 years, 1 month

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FS: HP-150A

by bills＠adrenaline.com

I need to clear a little of my collection (that or hire a divorce lawyer) so I want to move a few things I have multiples of or just don't have the time/skill/interest to fool with. So, first on the list: HP-150A Fully functional, with keyboard, _NO_ HP-IB peripherals or cable. There were leaking batteries in it, but the corrosion has been cleaned up/neutralized, new batteries installed and it works fine. Will provide MS-DOS 3.20 boot disk (single sided works with 9121 disk) with PAM and utilities if desired. Best offer by 4PM June 1. Thanks!

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Heathkit oscilloscope

by liste＠artware.qc.ca

I finally got my hands on an osiclloscope! 10 CAD at a garage sale this week-end. The beast is OLD, but works! I can't find a model number, but it says "Push pull" and "Extended range" on the front. I bought it with an course text book from Institut Teccart Montreal dated 1944 (in French). Last couple of chapters are about tubes, which is nice because my knowledge of tubes is limited. OK, so it's not a computer, but, uh, I'm going to use it to debug computers! Yeah, that's the ticket. But it doesn't go to very high frequencies... SO I'm going to use it to debug 9600 baud serial connections! Yeah, that's the ticket. -Philip

25 years, 1 month

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New HD disks not working in 1541?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 30, 3:52, Gunther Schadow wrote: > now that I have my old C64 setup back I found that I could not > format newer 5.25" HD disks on the 1541 or 1571. It just bumps > and blinks and stops. Does the 1541 require hard sectored disk? > I don't think so, because I can still remember today that my first > disk ever said "BASF Flexi Disk, 5.25", Singled Side, Double > Density, Soft Sector." So what's the trick to get media working? > Bulk eraser? (BTW: It's been over 15 years and I still have that > disk and could actually read one side of it, that's fun!) As others have said, you need disks intended for single-density or double density, not HD. I've also met one 1541 owner who swears that disks without hub rings won't work in his drive (and never did) because the mechanism doesn't grip them tightly enough (though I'm fairly sure that's just due to a soft spring or a missing screw on the frame somewhere). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

25 years, 1 month

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Cromemco S100 and AMIGA docs/book avail for trade

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

Hello All, I've got a copy of Volume 2 of the ROM Kernel Manual (Libraries and Devices) and the complete notes (a big 4" binder full) from the '88 developers conference. (It even has the presentation on the fabled A2000 Transputer version!) Anyway, they weigh 12lbs and are available for trade. I've also got the three volume set Cromemco ZPU, 64KZ, and 16FDC manuals available. (those go as a set _only_ please) I'd like to get some DEC documentation if I can. Things on my wish list are: Any Q-bus VAX processor Technical Manual (KA6xx) (except KA660) PDP-8 or PDP-11 handbooks Prints for an 11/34 RLO2 manuals Prints/Manuals on the TU60 DECCassette DRV11 Users Guide or Technical Manual!!!! CXA16 Users Guide or Technical Manual --Chuck

25 years, 1 month

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