Will,
I've tried a couple of times to contact you by email regarding whether you
intend on obtaining the remaining DEC gear I still have. Didn't bounce back
but I figure maybe Hotmail doesn't notify senders of non-delivery. Anyway,
could you get back to me ASAP with your intentions on this stuff? I must
move on this soon as I need the space very much.
Apologies to the list for using the bandwidth.
-Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/
Yes, providing a default ROM monitor program would be useful and
simple to implement.
The Otrona Attache would go into terminal mode if it couldn't
boot the OS. It also provided a set of diagnostic routines
that could be run from terminal mode.
I agree with you that error messages should be more informative.
One problem is that they often just tell you the last of a series of
errors. "No ROM Basic" accurately describes the last "error," but it
might be more useful to the user to also know that the system got to
that point because it couldn't boot from disk.
- Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 5:43 PM
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: IBM ROM BASIC or lack thereof
<snip>
I wish more manufacturers would put a program in the boot ROM that allows
reading and writing to memory, running (machine code) programs and
preferably also reading/writing I/O ports (if they're not memory mapped).
It makes debugging the machine a lot easier if it can't boot a disk (or
if you don't have a bootable disk for the machine, at least you can do
something with it.
Tiny (or otherwise) BASIC allows one to do this. So does Forth. Or just a
little machine code monitor. With ROM space being so cheap these days
you'd have thought they could find room for something like this...
-tony
The 8271 is a poor choice as it does not do MFM (double density).
Either use 8272 or the 1770 you have. The 1770 does not overclock
reliably.
Allison
-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Pemberton <philpem(a)bigfoot.com>
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Date: Friday, October 05, 2001 12:20 PM
Subject: 6502 BASIC or Assembler and Intel 8271/WDC 1770 info req'd
>Hi,
> I'm building myself a 6502-based single-board computer, with the aim
of
>running it off a 4.8V NiMH or NiCad battery pack. But I've got a
problem. I
>need a programming language for it. Aparrently there were many BASIC
>interpreters sold for the Synertek SYM-1 (aka SY-VIM-1), MOS KIM-1 and
>Rockwell AIM-65. Anyone know what happened to the companies that
produced
>these? Ideally I'd like the source code for a 6502 BASIC interpreter,
but
>binary code would be OK too. The SBC will communicate via a small LCD
panel,
>RS232 (so I can hook it up to a "dumb terminal") and will have a
hexadecimal
>keypad and an optional hard drive, too. Anyone care to make any
suggestions
>(or submit some code)?
>
>BTW, I also need some info on the Intel 8271 disk controller - I've got
two
>of these little devils and Intel's datasheet makes absolutely no sense
at
>all. I've also got a Western Digital WD1770-PH 00-02 that I might be
able to
>use instead. First of all, which is the better controller? The 8271 or
the
>1770? Also, is it possible to overclock a 1770 or an 8271 like you can a
>1772?
>I'd love some schematics and/or some source code. I really don't fancy
>disassembling Acorn's 8271 DFS and Watford Electronics' 1770 DFS...
>
>Thanks.
>--
>Phil.
>philpem(a)bigfoot.com
>http://www.philpem.f9.co.uk/
>
Ethan Dicks wrote:
>one aspect of classic kit building I have a question for the group
>about is, what about stuff that we built ourselves 10+ years ago that
>still works, but might need some touch-up.
If the solder joint in question meets the following criteria:
a) bad enough that fail-open is a credible risk
b) in a pathway such that fail-open could cause damage to other components
(particularly hard-to-replace ones)
I'd say it should be retouched. In any other case, I'd say that the risk of
damage, plus the loss of historical value, are convincing arguments to
leave it alone.
Bottom line, though, is that they are your kits, and whatever you
want to do with them is Ok.
Good question, though.
- Mark
A book that the VCF and many computer collectors prominently figure in is
coming out on November 1. It's called _Artifacts: An Archaeologist's Year
in Silicon Valley_ by Christine Finn. Those of you who have been to a VCF
in the past year and a half will recognize her as a recurring speaker.
A website has been established for the book at:
http://www.artifactsthebook.com/
Tonight is Christine's first book reading at a bookstore in Menlo Park,
California. If you are a local and would like to attend, the information
is posted to the website above.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
On October 5, Brian Knittel wrote:
> > I believe the first voice-coil drvie in that family was the ST-4096,
> > but I'm not positive of that. That was one nice drive.
>
> A nice drive? You must have gotten the one that worked. I ran
> into 5 or 6 of them, and after a couple of months, every one of
> them failed, as did their warranty replacements. I only found
> one that ended up being useful for several years (as a door stop).
>
> They sounded like chain saws.
Hmm, interesting. I installed about two dozen of them in customer
machines with no problems. They were all relatively close together
time-wise; I suppose I got lucky and scored a batch from a good
production run.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Laurel, MD
> I believe the first voice-coil drvie in that family was the ST-4096,
> but I'm not positive of that. That was one nice drive.
A nice drive? You must have gotten the one that worked. I ran
into 5 or 6 of them, and after a couple of months, every one of
them failed, as did their warranty replacements. I only found
one that ended up being useful for several years (as a door stop).
They sounded like chain saws.
brian
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
_| _| _| Brian Knittel / Quarterbyte Systems, Inc.
_| _| _| Tel: 1-510-559-7930 Fax: 1-510-525-6889
_| _| _| Email: brian(a)quarterbyte.com
_| _| _| http://www.quarterbyte.com
Ideally I'd like the source code for a 6502 BASIC interpreter, but
binary code would be OK too.
Phil, go see http://www.geocities.com/leeedavison/ .
You'll find what you want there.
Lee.
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>> Anybody know of any online TECO manuals? I've got a set of
>> DECsystem-10 TECO manuals that I'll scan if they dont already
>> exist online....
>
>I'm not aware of any TECO manuals online, and I'm almost positive that there
>aren't any DECsystem-10 TECO manuals online. These would be a great
>addition.
There's a bunch of TECO stuff over at
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/teco/
but I don't think there's a TECO-10 manual.
There is, however, a TECO-6 manual at
http://www.enteract.com/~enf/lore/teco/teco-64.html
What I'm looking for is a piece of software called "Video TECO". It's
a fairly nice (from my limited perspective) full-screen TECO in C that
I used for some time under Ultrix. I still have a printout of the manual
somewhere, but I seem to have lost my copy of the sources and haven't
been able to find a site online containing it.
Roger Ivie
ivie(a)cc.usu.edu
Does any one have the source code to Xinu for the Z80 (prefered) or the 68K?
I'm working on Circuit Cellar's HCS II (10 in Jan a now Open Sorce :-)
and I'd like to take advantage of Xinu and Zilog's newer Z80 derivatives.
Thanks
--
Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)home.net
http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only)
http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge)
http://hcs.sourceforge.net/ (HCS II)
Greets,
arm6.tif.1 worked this time, but 2 & 3 still show "Not a valid TIFF" in Paint Shop Pro.
Bob Mason
"Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" <spc(a)conman.org> wrote:
>It was thus said that the Great Mike once stated:
>>
>> From: Chris <mythtech(a)Mac.com>
>> > Can you get pic 2,3 or 6 to open? I can't get them to work (your
>>
>> OK, I reuploaded 2,3, and 6 to the same spot. Try them again at:
>>
>> http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/arm2.tif
>> http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/arm3.tif
>> http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/arm6.tif
>
> I just resnagged them and you can view them at
>
> http://www.flummux.org/radio/
>
> The original ones I snagged earlier are still there under the original
>name, while the new ones have a `.1' extention. If someone can test them
>and get back to me, I would appreciate it.
>
> -spc (They are different, even if they are the same file size ... )
>
>
--
Bob Mason
2x Amiga 500's, GVP A530 (40mhz 68030/68882, 8meg Fast, SCSI), 1.3/3.1, 2meg Chip, full ECS chipset, EZ135, 1084S, big harddrives, 2.2xCD
Gateway Performance 500 Piece 'o Crap, 'ME, 128meg, 20Gig, flatbed.
Heathkit H-89A, 64K RAM, hard and soft-sectored floppies, SigmaSoft and Systems 256K RAM Drive/Print Spooler/Graphics board HDOS 2 & CP/M 2.2.03/2.2.04
__________________________________________________________________
Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
On topic: Leave your old hardware the way it is, for historical reference.
Off topic: Coins are so boring ;) (though they last and are dated; I admit I
have used them myself, though). When I backfilled my excavations of a 3000
BC temple mound on the Peruvian coast, I put a basket-full of old shoes in
first (the site was being used as the modern town's garbage dump). In
another case, I dumped a load of washed and sorted shells in a pit at a
village site, and put in a dated newspaper page. A few years later, another
group re-excavated at the village, found the shells, but thought the
newspaper was intrusive (there is a lot of site looting in Peru) until they
happened to mention to me the "cache" of shells they found, whereupon I told
them what had happened.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 10:17 PM
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Restoring classic kits we built way-back-when
<snip> Specifically, I have several things <snip> that
I made when I was a teenager. <snip> I'm debating re-soldering these items
<snip>
I took history and archaeology in school; <snip> When my
advisor restored the bed of a large monochrome mosaic near Isthmia, he
threw several modern coins into the concrete bed so that future
excavators would know that it wasn't ancient concrete.
<snip>
-ethan
>That's true :). I'm sort of doubting that about the H50 because it's just so
>fast (well, 96MHz) but the memory helps out a lot. The CPU is a pain in the
>back to carry though. Nearly broke my back when carrying it up the stairs.
Pull the power supplies and disk cages next time.
Am scrapping several DEC LA100 DM and Diablo/Wang HyType DW printers; anybody need any parts before they go?
Also have manuals including Service manual for the LA100.
mike
mhstein(a)usa.net
I have HP/847S and found it to be a very effective space heater. Since I
wasn't particularily impressed with it's performance, I have opted to run a
smaller and more energy friendly HP/832.
I use my HPUX box(s) primarily as a database server (running APACHE, PERL,
and INFORMIX), application develpment using a Z80 cross assembler, and a
backup system for all my other "stuff". I have more trust in 9-track tapes
than other backup media.
As part of their Y2K support program, HP offered HPUX-10.2 as a free
upgrade. The upgrade package included everything you would need to get your
box up and running. As far as I know, the upgrade program has been
discontinued.
You can find release notes and installation instructions at:
http://docs.hp.com
As I recall, the basic install will give you licenses for two concurrent
users. Additional licenses can be activated by installing the license
upgrade. This requires a key to activate. The keys were provided by HP with
the upgrade based on the number of licenses the user had previously bought.
As with the software, those "Free" license upgrades are probably no longer
available.
Some of the CDs included applications but, you need keys to install them. An
alternative is to download and install apps from the HPUX freeware site
(http://hpux.cs.utah.edu ).
Send me your address off list and I'll get a copy of the OS to you.
NOTE: You'll need a bootable CD player to install the software.
ALSO --- If any your disks already have an OS installed, there is a simple
way to circumvent the ROOT password.
SteveRob
>From: jarkko.teppo(a)er-grp.com
>Reply-To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
>To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
>Subject: HP 9000/847S
>Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 09:16:35 +0300
>
>Hello,
>I just picked up a 9K 847S, upgraded to H50 with two SCSI-buses, one mux
>panel, a few disks and 384MB of memory (hmmmmm...). I'm not sure on the
>ten year rule as I'm relatively clueless regarding this machine. This is
>my second PA-RISC machine and it seems refreshingly better than the 840.
>
>A few questions:
>a) Introduction date ?
>b) Where can I get HP-UX 10.x cheaply :)? (ie. for free)
>
>--
>jht
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Hello,
I have been offered a rather large collection of machines, including an
IBM PC with the original monitor, and an IBM 4965 with an 8" floppy drive.
The 4965 is mounted in a large white rack, with a power supply mounted at
the bottom, and the cover has been removed from the power supply, Anyone
know anything about these machines? It looks as though all the original
disks and documentation is there, but I am wondering whether its worth my
time to clean this up.
Zach
On Oct 4, 17:22, John Foust wrote:
> At 05:36 PM 10/4/01 +0000, Pete Turnbull wrote:
> >The easiest way to deal with it is to ensure that the loft
> >is ventilated, but a better way would be to use a dehumidifier. They're
> >not too expensive to run (at least, not compared to heating or air
> >conditioning)
>
> They're like little refrigerators, and most of them
> aren't very smart about the set-point you've selected
> in consideration of the actual temperature and humidity,
> so they'll happily run when they can't do their job.
> They work by condensation on the cooled coils.
That's a good description, and it's true they're not very smart, but they
do work. If the air gets too cold, just run a PDP-11 to warm it up :-)
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
Anybody know of any online TECO manuals? I've got a set of
DECsystem-10 TECO manuals that I'll scan if they dont already
exist online....
Bill
--
Bill Bradford
mrbill(a)mrbill.net
Austin, TX
On Friday, October 05, 2001 12:58 AM, Absurdly Obtuse [SMTP:vance@ikickass.org]
wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Oct 2001, Dave McGuire wrote:
>
> > The ST225 was indeed 65ms...scary slow. It made a great distinctive
> > "peep-peep" sound, though...which I liked even more than the [still
> > rather cool] "chirp-chirp" sound of the ST251 and ST251-1. :-)
>
> I *love* that sound. Another good one is the IBM WDA-105. That was a
> nice-sounding drive. Another melodic one. Only 5 megs though.
>
> Peace... Sridhar
I used to have a pair of full height Micropolis that sounded just wonderful..
Jet-engine
noises on startup, and a thick twang-beeeeep sound when it seeked.
Dun remember what model, and I'm too lazy to dig em out and see, but I'm sure
they
were 170M units.
Jim
Tony Duell wrote:
> However, I've seen too many computers with incorrect labelling. I've seen
> PCs with a DE9 COM port with a mouse icon over it. OK, so the
> pre-installed version of Windows presumably expected a serial mouse on
> COM1: . That does not make that port a mouse port, though, at least not
> to a hardware hacker like me.
You are absolutely right that the port is not a "mouse" port, but if it has
a picture of a mouse next to it then Suzy will know where to plug her mouse
in.
Glen
0/0
This was just passed on to me:
-----Original Message-----
From: Francis Girard [mailto:fgirard@cisco.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 11:23 AM
To: canada(a)cisco.com; sales-eng(a)cisco.com
Subject: Anyone looking for an MSM Terminal Server for their museum???
A customer just called me to inform me that they're about to throw away about 10 very special terminal servers. They bought these back in 1990, and have serial numbers 000001 through 0000010! Hydro-Quebec may have very well been the first customer to purchase our MSM Terminal Server. I have no idea what these look like, but their still functional.
Is anyone interested in these??? Let me know ASAP as he's about to junk them. Note that, although he didn't suggest any form of compensation, I'm sure this customer would be very pleased of getting some sort of promo item (please, not a stress ball)....
Let me know.
Francis
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Francis Girard
Ing?nieur de r?seau
Les Syst?mes Cisco Canada Cie
1501, avenue McGill College, Bureau 600
Montr?al (Qu?bec) H3A 3M8
Tel : (514) 847-6853
Fax : (514) 847-6802
Pager : 1-800-68CISCO
fgirard(a)cisco.com
www.cisco.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My acquisition rate has exceeded my storage capacity so am making the
following available to list members pre-eBay. Bigger items to Houston
area only, (no shipping at this time).
All items in working condition unless otherwise noted.
IBM RS/6000 7012-370;aix3.x, kb, mouse, no key, FREE
no pwd,1gb hd, fdd, xtra boards, vid cable
DEC PDP 11/73; ba23, m8190ab, m8637dh, rx33, rqdx3 $100
rlv21,dhq11, rd52(doa), rt11 v5.4d kit
RA81 logic bd; cond ? FREE
ACT-10340 qniverter $10
mvII cpu+mem; m7606af, m7608bp $5
mvII cpu+2mem; m7606et, m7609ah, m7609ap $10
dssi m7769;s-handle $10
MAC 6100/66; w/DOS board, kbrd, mouse FREE
MAC 6100/66, not working FREE
MAC IIci FREE
DEC ba23 cabinet, unpopulated FREE
DEC ba213 cab, unpopulated FREE
DEC sz-12 storage expansion; rz55 FREE
DEC Ext Strage box, rz56 FREE
Vaxstation 4000/model 60;no hd $25
Vaxstation 3100/m76 SPX; vms6.x $25
Vaxstation 3100/m76 SPX $20
Microvax 3100/20e; vms $20
Infoserver 100; rz23(2)rrd.. $10
VT420 / LK401 $10
-nick o
281-553-6507
I found one DSSI cable to connect one of my two HSD05 controllers
to my VAX 4000/500 (I'm still looking for another). I've read that
the HSD05 controller is not very fast, so I used the disk speed
benchmark mybenchmark and tested an RZ28B vs. an RF72 and find the
HSD05-connected RZ28B is slightly faster than the RF72. I'm going
to test my RF73 tomorrow. I'm curious as to whether the smaller
RF3x drives are faster than the RF7x drives. Does anyone have any
benchmarks?
--
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
Louis Schulman wrote:
> #I have come across an Osborne model OCC1 Serial # 134033. This unit has
the
> #300 baud modem. It also has 5 1/4 disk with it. (SuperCalc, WordStar,
> #Qbasic) The unit boots up and runs the software but after about 15 to
20
> #minutes it starts to overheat.(smoke)
> #My question is - What is the selling price for a unit like this and
where
> #would be the best place to sell it?
>
> Well, I have a related question. I have an '86 Dodge that runs fine for
10 or 15 minutes, but then the
> passenger compartment fills with smoke and flames shoot out of the grill.
>
> What is the blue book on an "86 Dodge with flames and smoke?
(Louis, that's *funny*!)
Uh, the blue book value is -$10,000 -- you'd have to pay me to take
possession of it.
I hate to tell this guy but I think the last thing most of us wants is
another insane computer . . .
Glen
0/0
> them) or leaving them the way they are a) because if it works, don't
> screw with it, and b) it's a snapshot of my own context in the greater
> historical framework.
Personally I think the real issue here is that if it works don't mess with
it. So your soldering might be sloppy. Big deal.
Yes, I'm a big fan of if it works don't mess with it.
Zane
After Tony's suggestion that I test our faulty LK201s with a VT terminal, it
turned out that both worked fine with a VT420. So I thought I'd give our
LK401s a try as well. And it actually turned out that one worked! The other
still didn't. I opened them up and connected them to the VT, and after a
while, I noticed that a small (14 pins DIL?) Motrola IC called LC74750P was
much hotter on the faulty board. I established that the fault was on the PCB
by connecting the working one to the keyboard matrix of the faulty one. The
74750P was only pleasantly warm in the functioning keyboard, whereas it got as
hot as a Pentium processor after a while on the faulty PCB.
So I thought I just had to nip down to the shop and get some standard TTL (it
does begin with a 74...) chip and solder back (in a socket =). No such luck.
The clerk couldn't find the chip in store, in any catalogue or any databook.
He suggested that it might have been made as a batch only for DEC.
Does anyone know what kind of chip this might be, and if it's available
anywhere?
As for the LK401, the PCB contains three ICs:
1 ? 74750P (???)
1 ? i8051 (microcontroller, does this have some on-board ROM which prevents
drop-in replacement?)
1 ? AMTEL something or other. Could it be a ROM?
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
Die Malerei ist stumme Poesie, die Poesie blinde Malerei.
--- Leonardo da Vinci
On October 3, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> RD50 - ST506
> RD51 - ST412
> RD52 - Quantum 540?
Yes, Q540.
> RD53 - Micropolis 1335
> RD54 - Maxtor XT2190
> RD31 - ST225
> RD32 - ST241-1
Just a nit...the RD32 is an ST251...not a -1 model. The ST251 had
an average access time of 40ms (if memory serves) and the ST251-1 was
28.5ms. An easy performance upgrade for RD32-based systems is to
replace the DEC-badged Seagate ST251 with an ST251-1...the controller
won't know the difference...but the user will! :-)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Laurel, MD
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1280822959
I have been considering buying one of these machines as an investment.
While I am a computer programmer by trade, I have no clue how to operate
or program one of these things which really does not matter since I would
be buying it as an investment.
Any comments concerning what would be considered a "fair price" on
this machine would be appreciated. I seem to recall seeing one sell
on EBAY a few months ago for around 1800.00 but I don't think it had
a monitor and drives.
My guess (given the current economic situation) is that 1800.00 - 2200.00
might be sufficient to win the bid on this box.
Comments?
Might anyone have a copy of Superfile for DOS they can shoot over to me?
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote:
> You forget: when this was state of the art, the vast majority of users
> were just like Tony.
Well, the thing is, the message was on mobos long after it was state of the
art, which was my original point -- why was the message still there, when
the BASIC wasn't.
Also, *no one* is/was "just like Tony" :>) (Tony -- this is a compliment
;>)
Glen
0/0
On Oct 4, 11:48, SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com wrote:
> Most halfway modern things have environmental criteria for when it's
running
> and when it's off. For humidity, I've seen the storage range be from
5%-95%
> noncondensing and temp range from 0F-110F when not running. I'm running
out
> of space as well finally, but will not store things in the roof.
The key word in there is "noncondensing", which isn't likely to be the case
part of the time, unless you do something about it. Corrosion could be a
real problem. The easiest way to deal with it is to ensure that the loft
is ventilated, but a better way would be to use a dehumidifier. They're
not too expensive to run (at least, not compared to heating or air
conditioning) and you could run a short drain hose out of the dehumidifier
and out of the loft to dispose of the water.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Beaudry" <r_beaudry(a)hotmail.com>
> > Since I am rapidly exhausting all space in my basement workshop, I
need to
> > move some of my computers to the loft above our garage. The problem
is,
> the
> > garage is completely UNinsulated, and has only a metal roof (i.e.,
thin,
> and
> > NO resistance to temperature -- hot or cold).
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
finally back online with a mailer here. Still getting used to Linux PC
over my Amiga 3000.
Just for some laughs out there, I want to pass this along . . . .
I downloaded about 20k, yes 20,000 emails. Seems my former (and
present) ISP maintaianed my email addy and there was an accumulation of
emails from last February.
took about 7 hrs to dowload, and another 6 to chip through them.
Might this be a Guiness Book world's record??
gary Hildebrand
> >I suppose you *COULD* write a driver that lets you use the board
> >for non-booting devices if you had enough information available.
>
> That depends on exactly why the firmware
> will not play with VAX. My *guess* (based
> on exactly no information ...) is that it has
> intimate knowledge of some internal
> OpenVMS Alpha data structure (page
> tables or such like).
That's what I meant by enough information. You'd need the source for
OpenVMS Alpha, OpenVMS VAX, and the driver as the bare minimum along
with hardware specs.
> So it is quite possible that you would need
> to re-write the firmware to be able to do
> *anything* with the board at all.
Or you could possibly do the setup in the driver initialization.
It would be much simpler to use a CIXCD to an HSJxx controller.
When you factor in the development costs the CI solution would
be much less expensive as well.
We use CIXCD boards in our VAX 7730 systems (actually two for
redundancy to dual Star Couplers).
--
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
Tony stated:
> FWIW, I have never treated _anything_ as a black box where I don't have
> to care about what goes on inside. I find it's easier to do good work if
> you do understand the internals of the tools and equipment that you are
> using. And therefore I have little time for people who aren't prepared to
> learn about the insides of their computer/car/whatever...
>>>> start of OT rant
Although I like to be able to know about the "inside" of things, I am not
convinced that it is possible to have anything more than a simplistic view
(or even that much) for some things. GSM phones are, at best, borderline.
DAB ("Digital Radio") seems to have gone to the level where only a very
small proportion of the population (possibly less than a few thousand people
worldwide) can really and accurately claim to fully understand how it
works*. It worries me somewhat that such a technology is being deployed (as
also does the potential for control by government and big business that is
lacking in AM and FM radio), but possibly such complexity is inevitable.
* sure, I can waffle on about using a spread spectrum technique in Band III
to transmit a multiplexed bit stream than demultiplexes to several
compressed sequences of digital samples - I might even, with a little
research, be more convincing about how this bit stream is handled - but as
for really understanding the transmission mechanism, "pass"!
<<<< end of OT rant
Andy
> Eric Dittman wrote:
>
>I suppose you *COULD* write a driver that lets you use the board
>for non-booting devices if you had enough information available.
That depends on exactly why the firmware
will not play with VAX. My *guess* (based
on exactly no information ...) is that it has
intimate knowledge of some internal
OpenVMS Alpha data structure (page
tables or such like).
For example,
the DMB32 did exactly this - it could run
in at least 4 different modes: given physical
address (PA), given PA of a VAX page table,
given SVA of buffer and given SVA of
process page table. I assume the firmware
engineers had time to kill :-)
So it is quite possible that you would need
to re-write the firmware to be able to do
*anything* with the board at all.
Antonio
> > Does that apply to all revisions of the XMI SCSI?
> >
> > > > T2029-AB XMI-SCSI adapter
> > >
> > > The XMI-SCSI adapter is only supported on Alpha systems.
>
> That applies to all revisions. There are no VAX drivers for the
> card in VMS.
AFAIK, there is no VAX-compatible *firmware*,
so you cannot even hope to write your own
drivers ...
Antonio
> T2029-AB XMI-SCSI adapter
The XMI-SCSI adapter is only supported on Alpha systems.
--
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
>Sometimes a network connection, even old slow LocalTalk is the most
>convient thing to use.
Up until the power supply blew on my Powerbook... I always carried this
little pair of Farallon adaptors for localtalk. They were single RJ-11
connectors that plugged into the printer port (basically a standard
teletalk connector, but the 2nd port was permanently terminated). They
took almost no space (about an inch square for the pair), and almost no
weight (maybe an ounce for the pair), and used my already carried modem's
phone cord to connect between.
I think hardly a meeting went by that I didn't use them to transfer files
to someone else's computer. Localtalk was always pleanty fast for moving
a few word files or a powerpoint presentation... and used WAY less
battery power than the IR port (and was easier to use, as I had a
Powerbook 1400 which used apple's crappy slow IR protocol, most other
people had nicer, newer ones that used IRda, and although could "dumb
down" to apple's, it just sucked).
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
> > > Does that apply to all revisions of the XMI SCSI?
> > >
> > > > > T2029-AB XMI-SCSI adapter
> > > >
> > > > The XMI-SCSI adapter is only supported on Alpha systems.
> >
> > That applies to all revisions. There are no VAX drivers for the
> > card in VMS.
>
>
> AFAIK, there is no VAX-compatible *firmware*,
> so you cannot even hope to write your own
> drivers ...
Yes, I forgot to mention the lack of firmware as well.
I suppose you *COULD* write a driver that lets you use the board
for non-booting devices if you had enough information available.
--
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
Most halfway modern things have environmental criteria for when it's running
and when it's off. For humidity, I've seen the storage range be from 5%-95%
noncondensing and temp range from 0F-110F when not running. I'm running out
of space as well finally, but will not store things in the roof.
In a message dated 10/4/2001 10:18:11 AM Central Daylight Time,
menadeau(a)mediaone.net writes:
<< Extreme cold will damage LCDs--I live in NH, and lost an IXO handheld
terminal that way. At my previous home, my storage was similar to what you
describe. Also, the heat of an attic will warp some plastics, and I suspect
that it accelerates the yellowing process. I didn't have a problem with
circuit boards, however. Hot and cold extremes will not be kind to software
or to some types of paper. Temperatures aren't the only thing you have to
worry about with the type of storage you describe. Vermin (insects, spiders,
mice, bats) will also be a problem. I kept my stuff covered with old
blankets and tarps to cut down on damage from dust and droppings. The
coverings will also help with certain weather conditions common to New
England. In springtime when the humidity is high and the temperature rises,
moisture will form on metal and plastic surfaces.
--Mike
Michael Nadeau
Editorial Services
603-893-2379
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Beaudry" <r_beaudry(a)hotmail.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 10:06 AM
Subject: Cold/Hot storage of computers -- OK?
> Hello all,
>
> Since I am rapidly exhausting all space in my basement workshop, I need to
> move some of my computers to the loft above our garage. The problem is,
the
> garage is completely UNinsulated, and has only a metal roof (i.e., thin,
and
> NO resistance to temperature -- hot or cold).
>
> My concern is that the cold of winter or the heat of summer might get to
> them. I live in Massachusetts, so winter is not -40 degrees F, but we
are
> talking below freezing, and possibly below zero for short stretches. In
the
> summer, it must easily hit 100 degrees F in the loft, due to the hot metal
> roof, and the trapped air (no windows!).
>
> I'm not so worried about the circuit boards, but I am worried about floppy
> drives, hard drives, and CRTs. Does anyone know if such temperatures will
> kill these things? Obviously I would let the computer acclimate for about
> 24 hours after I move it back into my house, to avoid sudden temperature
> swings, or condensation. I'm more worried about the storage affecting
> them....
>
> Thanks!
>
> Rich B. >>
Hello all,
Since I am rapidly exhausting all space in my basement workshop, I need to
move some of my computers to the loft above our garage. The problem is, the
garage is completely UNinsulated, and has only a metal roof (i.e., thin, and
NO resistance to temperature -- hot or cold).
My concern is that the cold of winter or the heat of summer might get to
them. I live in Massachusetts, so winter is not -40 degrees F, but we are
talking below freezing, and possibly below zero for short stretches. In the
summer, it must easily hit 100 degrees F in the loft, due to the hot metal
roof, and the trapped air (no windows!).
I'm not so worried about the circuit boards, but I am worried about floppy
drives, hard drives, and CRTs. Does anyone know if such temperatures will
kill these things? Obviously I would let the computer acclimate for about
24 hours after I move it back into my house, to avoid sudden temperature
swings, or condensation. I'm more worried about the storage affecting
them....
Thanks!
Rich B.
I'm trying to help a friend of a friend interface an Okidata 600e printer
with a Radio Shack Model 12 computer. Any idea if this is possible? He
claims to have created an interface cable, but it doesn't work.
Robert Matthews
Please contact Matt directly if you are interested in this system.
Kevan
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mail <info(a)rothenberger.co.uk>
Subject: MAI Computer
Our company has in storage a MAI Basic 4 Information System,which I believe
to be complete and functioning. We have no use for this and would be
grateful if you could let me know whether this has any value and/or any
people or companies you know of who might be interested in making me an
offer.
Matt Maguire
Supply Chain Manager
(Rothenberger UK Ltd.)
My $10.00 (not including packing and shipping... Ouch!!!)
System 36-5363 arrived today!!
It is much bigger than I thought!
The case is built like a tank
How do I get it open???
I got the back cover off, no problem...
There is no obvious way in.
Any hints would be greatly appreciated.
Mike
--
===============================================================================
Michael L. Drew
Drew Technologies, Inc.
41 Enterprise Drive
Ann Arbor, MI 48103
Phone: (734) 623-8080
Fax: (734) 623-8082
===============================================================================
Hi,
I might purchase some VAX boards for a good price, which I need
to negotiate first and I need some help with finding out if I
can use those in a VAX 6000-400 and/or -600 (XMI, VAXBI) machine.
Here goes the list and following are specific questions
T1010 DWBUA VAXBI-UNIBUS adapter (BI side)
T1022/1023 DRB32, VAXBI-DRB adapter and DR11-W adapter
T1031 KFBTA (AIE) BI RD Drive Controller
T1060 VAX 9000 PEM Module
T2020 XMI/NI controller
T2022/2023 KDM70 XMI-SI adapter pair
T2027 DEMFA XMI-FDDI controller
T2028-AA XMI-LSB adapter
T2029-AB XMI-SCSI adapter
T2036-AA KFSMA, XMI-DSSI adapter
T2080-YA CIXCD-AC XMI-CI adapter (for AXP and VAX 7k/10k)
The intriguing thing about this pile is that it's relatively
unusual hardware. I don't have this stuff yet and I don't get
it for free. If you want any of it, chime in and tell me what
you'd spend. I could make a bundle order that can give yet a
better basis for negotiation.
Detail:
T1010 DWBUA VAXBI-UNIBUS adapter (BI side)
- what cab-kit assembly is needed, is this something extremely
hard to find? Can you give a model number for the cab-kit so
I might find it somewhere?
- I might want that because I plan to have a UNIBUS cabinet
besides a VAX 11/780 in the near future. I could kind of
swap the Unibus between the two machines. And I could use
the UNIBUS frame buffer set that I might also get sometime.
T1022/1023 DRB32, VAXBI-DRB adapter and DR11-W adapter
T1031 KFBTA (AIE) BI RD Drive Controller
- what the heck are DRB bus and what are the accessories needed
to do anything useful with it?
- and what are RD drives? Old junk? Are those available?
How are they connected to the KFBTA?
T1060 VAX 9000 PEM Module
- there is actually a bunch of other 9000 modules. Anything
useful to do with this in a VAX 6000's BI bus?
T2020 XMI/NI controller
- is this an XMI ethernet controller? Can it be used in
an 6400 XMI bus? 6600? or only a 7000 and 10000?
T2022/2023 KDM70 XMI-SI adapter pair
- SI bus? Is this yet another disk/tape storage bus? Availability
of disks? Old or new? This isn't the same as SBI (11/780) or
SDI (KDB50) right?
T2027 DEMFA XMI-FDDI controller
- This should work on a 6400 XMI bus, right?
T2028-AA XMI-LSB adapter
- Laser bus? That's the 10000's bus, right? I assume that
would require a whole LSB backplane, power, etc. etc.,
not feasible with a VAX 6000.
T2029-AB XMI-SCSI adapter
- Just checking: are these -AA, -AB, etc. suffixes anything
that can make or break 6400 XMI compatibility?
T2036-AA KFSMA, XMI-DSSI adapter
- dito -AA -AB, etc. any issues there?
T2080-YA CIXCD-AC XMI-CI adapter (for AXP and VAX 7k/10k)
- dito. This sounds like a cool alternative for a faster
CI link than through the BI bus.
Your comments on any or all of the above are appreciated.
And let me know if your heart is longing for anything of
it and how much you would pay. (I don't make a profit from
this, I'm trying to get a good price on a bulk order.)
thanks,
-Gunther
--
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow(a)regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org
Sridhar,
I would be interested in those tech docs. Got a S/36 5363 sitting at my
office.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Absurdly Obtuse
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 5:55 PM
To: Michael L. Drew
Cc: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org'
Subject: Re: IBM S/36 5363 Question
Nice find! Want technical docs?
Peace... Sridhar
On Wed, 3 Oct 2001, Michael L. Drew wrote:
> My $10.00 (not including packing and shipping... Ouch!!!)
> System 36-5363 arrived today!!
>
> It is much bigger than I thought!
>
> The case is built like a tank
>
> How do I get it open???
>
> I got the back cover off, no problem...
>
> There is no obvious way in.
>
> Any hints would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
============================================================================
===
>
> Michael L. Drew
> Drew Technologies, Inc.
> 41 Enterprise Drive
> Ann Arbor, MI 48103
> Phone: (734) 623-8080
> Fax: (734) 623-8082
>
============================================================================
===
>
>
>
The only ones i've seen are SK-net brand, of which I have two in my IBM
server 95s.
In a message dated 10/2/2001 10:17:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
vance(a)ikickass.org writes:
<< The problem with eBay though, is that many of the cards going through
there are SAS and unlabeled. That. and I've never seen an IBM FDDI/MC on
there.
Peace... Sridhar
On Tue, 2 Oct 2001, Gunther Schadow wrote:
> on ebay :-)
>
> yes, I've seen them scroll through recently. Several of them.
>
> -Gunther >>
> Hmmm...are there EPROM's in it, or ROMs? I built a PC
> compatible with a bare board and stuffed the chips and
> soldered it when I was broke in college. The BIOS it
> came with wasn't very PC compatible. So (and I'm not
> making any excuses for this..) I wrote a program in
> disk based GW-BASIC (I actually BOUGHT it) that looked
> like it did something when in reality it was writing
> 2048K ROM images of the BIOS and BASIC ROMS of a real
> IBM PC to floppy. I took it to an IBM store (IBM had
> "stores" then) and told the salesman that I wanted to
> know if my program would really run on an IBM PC/XT. I
> ran it, it "worked", I said, "thank you very much",
> went to work, blew the EPROMS, stuffed 'em in my
> motherboard, and then, my PC, although it had a wooden
> case and a power supply shielded with Erector Set
> parts, was really, really, definitely IBM PC
> compatible!!
Brilliant move!
Glen
0/0
> Hmmm...are there EPROM's in it, or ROMs? I built a PC
> compatible with a bare board and stuffed the chips and
> soldered it when I was broke in college. The BIOS it
> came with wasn't very PC compatible. So (and I'm not
> making any excuses for this..) I wrote a program in
> disk based GW-BASIC (I actually BOUGHT it) that looked
> like it did something when in reality it was writing
> 2048K ROM images of the BIOS and BASIC ROMS of a real
> IBM PC to floppy. I took it to an IBM store (IBM had
> "stores" then) and told the salesman that I wanted to
> know if my program would really run on an IBM PC/XT. I
> ran it, it "worked", I said, "thank you very much",
> went to work, blew the EPROMS, stuffed 'em in my
> motherboard, and then, my PC, although it had a wooden
> case and a power supply shielded with Erector Set
> parts, was really, really, definitely IBM PC
> compatible!!
Brilliant move!
Glen
0/0