- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

This one is light and small enough to be shipped. It's a 'Gigastore' drive from Digi-Data Corp. Best of all, it includes the operation/maintenance manual(!). The 'Gigastore' is a weird device. What Digi-Data did is take a regular VHS VCR, make some modifications to the transport assembly, and added their own electronics to provide a Pertec interface. The result was a tape backup system that used regular VHS tapes, could store up to 2.5 gigabytes of data, and could interface to any Pertec controller. This one's cheap: $25.00 or best offer, plus shipping. Also, FYI: The HP 9-track drive I mentioned earlier would include the manual. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk)

24 years, 7 months

1
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HP 3000 No More

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Stan Sieler" <sieler(a)allegro.com> wrote: > Re: > > See my earlier post about how they started back in '73; > > 1972, but the actual "start" date is hard to pin down. Was it first > introduction, or the re-introduction (after it was pulled off the market)? Development of Alpha started in 1968 and ran concurrently (if somewhat on a back burner, because everybody thought the 32-bit Omega was a more exciting project) w/r/t Omega until Omega's cancellation in 1970. November 1972 is when the first systems (called HP 3000) were shipped to customers. The re-release (which was somewhat improved hardware and software and also called HP 3000 initially, but later came to be called the Series I) was in October 1973. (Reference for the above: Christopher Edler's "The Strongest Castle" paper) > The 16-bit HP 3000 was never multi-CPU. The HP 3000 Series III, introduced > in 1978, *did* have one instruction that was intended to support > having a second CPU, but nothing was ever done with it. The multiple-CPU > support came with the PA-RISC system, with release MPE XL 3.0 Somebody had ideas about it being a dual-CPU shared-memory system early on. Looking at the HP3000 Computer System Reference Manual from September 1973, I see that locations %10-%13 were reserved for the second processor's current PCB pointer, QI, ZI, and interrupt count. The Series II added two instructions: LOCK and UNLK, which were used to provide a sort of in-memory semaphore. I'm not sure they were present in the Series III. The Machine Instruction Set manuals I have handy have them footnoted with "Series II computer systems only". What I don't know is whether MPE ever had dual-CPU support. If it didn't, I wonder how they worked out that having an in-memory semaphore would be a good idea. -Frank McConnell

24 years, 7 months

2
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HP 3000 No More (legacy)

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On November 17, Stan Sieler wrote: > PA-RISC is dead/dying ... HP has said so. IA-64 killed it. [knee-jerk reaction to a pet peeve follows] Well, as long as "dead" can be defined as "salespeople don't want to sell you a new one". For me, it can't. I can pick up the phone and buy PDP8 equipment from a commercial vendor. How long ago was THAT architecture discontinued? For me, something is "dead" (or "obsolete" or whatever you want to call it) when it can no longer do its job adequately and cost-effectively. When Ford or Chevrolet discontinue a model of a car, does every owner of that model of car go throw them away and buy brand new cars? This industry is absurd, and its practices and philosophies are repulsive at best. I wish I didn't like computers so much. *grumble* > (Indeed, PA-RISC was originally scheduled to be dead by now, but it had to > be extended due to the lateness of IA-64.) > > Do I like this? Nope. But, it's as much "legacy" as Z80, 68000, and > (probably) all x86 chips. ...all of which can be bought new today, and are being built into systems (though not mainstream suits-doing-powerpoint-presentations type of systems, but is that really what this crowd cares about?) every day. "something new came out" != "this is now useless". Now, Stan...I apologize if it seems as if I'm jumping down your throat with this, and believe me I do get the impression that I'm precahing to the choir. But I also believe that the vast majority of the folks here understand that computers don't stop processing data when the manufacturer no longer wants to sell new ones of the same type. This group is likely the most enlightened of any on this subject. So why go along with it? Respectfully, -Dave McGuire -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL

24 years, 7 months

2
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HP 3000 No More

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> According to the press release, they want you to migrate to 9000's or > their PC servers products. > > As for MPE on other platforms.. tempting. They should open source the > whole damn thing. That would be an *interesting* read. fat chance. A group tried to liberate Domain/OS, which they didn't even write, to no avail... I think Bob Supnik had the same response >from them regarding the HP2000/2100 software. Suits. Can't live with 'em, probably couldn't live without 'em. -dq

24 years, 7 months

5
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HP 3000 No More

by dlinder＠uiuc.edu

hey list- Just announced on /., the venerable HP3000 line will join HP calculators in HP's new "we don't want to do cool stuff anymore" business model. Well, maybe that's harsh. But it is still another sad day for computing. - Dan -- Dan Linder / dlinder @ uiuc.edu Graduate Student, College of Engineering, Dept. of Computer Science - Dept. of Computer Science Teaching Assistant - DRES Computer Accessibility Researcher

24 years, 7 months

17
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Cable and connector source

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 15, 10:57, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> wrote: > > There's a trick to soldering them. Stick the plug in a socket (or, btter > > still, a potato) to solder it. It stops things getting too hot and > > melting. > > I've done the socket thing, but I've never done a potato... wouldn't you > get lots of residual starch on the pins? Not a lot. And it's not corrosive. Don't use an apple :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 7 months

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AVAILABLE: 9-track SCSI-SE tri-density tape drives

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

(Cross-posted to: classiccmp, and the port-sparc and port-vax lists at NetBSD.org) NOTE: LOCAL PICKUP ONLY EXCEPT BY SPECIAL ARRANGEMENT: I'm sorry, but these are too big and bulky for me to easily ship unless you want to pay $150 for a special box plus the freight charges. Pickup location is Kent, Washington (southeast of Seattle). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Hi, folks, Due to shifting interests, and a massive cleanup, I'm getting rid of two 9-track SCSI interface tape drives. Both are multi-density, both are standard single-ended SCSI interface, no oddball connectors, and I'd like to ask for $100 OR BEST OFFER on each one. Here's the specific details. HP 88780: Handles 800, 1600, and 6250 density tapes. Front-loading/autoloading, rackmount, and in pretty darn good shape. Originally badged as a Sun drive, and I seem to recall that it ID's as a Sun device. However, it worked just fine with standard SCSI hardware. Includes rack slides, functional when last turned on a few months back. M4 Data Model 9914R (rackmount). Handles all four known densities: 800, 1600, 3200, and 6250. Also front-load/autoload, also in great shape. I can probably come up with a set of rack slides for it as well. Somewhat lighter than the HP in physical terms, and it can be easily converted to a Pertec interface by removing the SCSI interface board and changing one parameter in the NVRAM setup. Thanks much for putting up with my blatant ad. ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk)

24 years, 7 months

1
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History of Computing CD

by MTPro＠aol.com

Hello, I have one copy of this CD left, it's new and the most current version. Anyone like to buy it? The "History of Computing: An Encyclopedia of the People and Machines that Made Computer History," a CD ROM based reference containing over 1,000 PHOTOS of early machines and technologies. (Win 95/98/NT & Win 2000, and above, compatible) Sells for $19.95 at amazon.com, see: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0944601782/qid=1002987031/sr=8-2/ref… _8_7_2/002-0016231-5469635 Only $10 plus shipping! Best, David David Greelish Classic Computing www.classiccomputing.com "classiccomputing" on eBay

24 years, 7 months

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OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa?

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>The documentation that came with this machine implies it's already >equipped with >the DX2/66. Is there some sort of utility in the system that would make >it easy >to see what the thing perceives itself as having? If you boot it, you will probably find a copy of Apple System Profiler in the Apple menu. That will tell you what you have installed. The stock 630 series is actually a fairly useful machine. It used 72pin SIMMS (FPM, but EDO work just fine), there is only one RAM slot, so it will max out the machine at 36mb (32mb chip + 4 on board). The VRAM is non upgradable. As a stock machine, they are good workstations (pending you use non PPC only software, since it is a 33mhz LC040.. the LC040 is a 68040 without the FPU built into the chip). I have a 630 running right now as a mail server, keeps up with everything I give it no problems (runs Mac OS 8.1, with Stalker Internet Mail Server... hosts a few domains and a few thousand emails a day, with a few hundred accounts... never even hiccups). The HD is IDE, which makes it cheap and easy to upgrade. Other things of interest. It may have an ethernet card, but if you said it came with a modem, I doubt it has ethernet (was the modem internal? You could get an internal 14.4 geoport fax/modem in the Comm Slot... the GeoPort modem is similar to those WinModems that use the processor to handle all the modem functions, and the modem acts pretty much as an AD/DA converter. HOWEVER, you may have one of the modems that was made by global village... THOSE modems are real modems, and VERY VERY good, with supurb fax software). If the modem is external, then you might have an ethernet card in the Comm slot (look at the back for an RJ45 connector). If you have a Global Village external modem (common performa modem), the bronze (probably the one you have) is 2400 fax. It is a VERY good fax modem, with excellent software... not so good of a regular modem (some extension conflicts with the modem control software). There is also a Gold version that was 28.8 fax... much better regular modem (newer software, cured most of the extension conflicts) Also, your docs indicate that it has the DOS card installed. However, the 630 didn't ship with a dos card... that was the 640 (upgraded version of the 630, the 640 came stock with a DOS card... IIRC it was available for the 630 as a 3rd party add in by Reply, so it may have been added). The quickest way to tell if a dos card is installed is look at the back of the machine. You will see an expansion slot. If there is a fairly densely pinned DB connector in the expansion slot, you have a DOS card. There should be a dongle cable for it that will connect between the DOS card, and the Mac's video out. The cable will then provide a RGB connector, and a Midi/Joystick connector. If you don't have that cable, the DOS card is useless... good luck finding a replacement cable. Finally, the 630 supports Video In/Out and a TV Tuner. Again, look at the back of the machine, if you see RCA connectors for video, left and right audio (Yellow, Red and White, RCAs), you have the video In/Out card. If you ALSO see a RF Coax screw on connector, you have the TV Tuner... if you have these... contact me, I would be interested in possibly buying/trading them with you (I have a need for the TV Tuner card, but will take them as a pair). If you have the TV Tuner card, you should also have a remote control. It will either be a skinny black remote, or a little credit card sized remote. Failure to have the remote will not prevent the card from working, it just means you have to do all the controls on the computer. (The Video Player software supports all the remote functions directly, the remote was just a nicity). What else... If the DOS card is not present, then the 630 has an LC PDS slot, there are a few cards available for it (network, video, accelerators, odds and ends). I think that is pretty much it. The 630 series is a very good 040 machine, and can still be used for a number of things. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 7 months

8
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OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa?

by mythtech＠Mac.com

> Even the ADB symbol predates USB by a goodly margin. It was >introduced with the SE in 1987. Actually, IIRC, it first appeared in the Apple IIgs shortly before appearing in the Mac II, THEN in the SE... but I could be wrong -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 7 months

4
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Surplus Legal Issues, was Re: Fw: Control Data Cyber 960

by mhstein＠usa.net

----------Original Message------------ <snip> I was working for a small place many years ago that had recieved, by Government contractor error, a 'classified' piece of radio gear stuck in a truckload of other RF junk we bought. The Feds came storming in one afternoon with the swat team (I am *not* making this up!!) <snip> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Speaking of classified equipment among the junk, that reminds me of a story at: http://www.cultdeadcow.com/cDc_files/cDc-363/ Novel twist on the car-in-the-side-of-the-mountain urban legend; a little long, but I enjoyed it. mike

24 years, 7 months

1
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Control Data Cyber 960 rescue interest?

by mhstein＠usa.net

Speaking of CDC, among the junk I'm cleaning out of my basement there's a partial backplane out of an old CDC something-or-other, connected to a panel with 2 AC outlets (Monitor & Data Set), a fuse and a DB25 for the Data Set. There's also an acoustic delay line and a large resistor/diode matrix board which I think came from the same piece. Maybe a 60's era terminal??? 3 rows of cards; the two top rows A & B have 25 slots for 4 1/2x6", double sided 31 edge connectors cards, some with 10 test points along the edge and each populated with one or two dozen gold 10 pin TO5 cans marked M (as in Motorola) 115, 116, 117, 118 with what I assume are date codes like 6624, 6644, and 6636. The bottom row, C, 32 slots, contains a few smaller cards with pin connectors that appear to be some kind of programming cards, just containing jumper wires. Anybody recognize these and maybe even have a use for a card or two, or can I throw them out without feeling guilty? mike

24 years, 7 months

1
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TRS-80 Model IV

by csmith＠amdocs.com

If they do, I'm not aware of it. This may be the case, though. Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' > -----Original Message----- > From: Lawrence LeMay [mailto:lemay@cs.umn.edu] > Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 1:23 PM > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: TRS-80 Model IV > > > I thought that they required a PAL in addition to extra ram chips, in > order to install a memory upgrade.

24 years, 7 months

2
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TRS-80 Model IV

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > Maxing out the RAM is probably not a bad idea, but I'd > suggest you attempt to > figure out why the non-working ones don't work, and, if > that's the only problem > you can't solve, I'll happily send you the necessary DRAMs > for the cost of > postage. I _think_ there are video problems with both units. They seem to attempt to boot up, while leaving the monitor in a relatively empty state. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 7 months

3
2
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TRS-80 Model IV

by csmith＠amdocs.com

Hi again. :) I just thought of another question. I have in my possession four TRS-80 model IVs. Two portables, (one working, one not), and two desktops (one working, one not). The desktop will run in Model III emulation mode. The portable will turn on and ask for a disk. Anybody know where I can find some operating system(s) for them? I'm also thinking about taking the ram from the non-working machines, and using it to max out the memory in the working ones. Good idea, bad idea? Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 7 months

6
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Hello, and please help with RSX-11M/PDP parts

by dburrows＠netpath.net

In most cases you can type <ctrl>Z when it asks for the date and time. Unless they were clever in the startup routines) The you are logged in as [200,200] SET /DEF [1,54] the "normal" system account. Then your able to totally corrupt anything you want. Suggestion: DO NOT do anything but read files in [0,0] They are the equivalent of the MFT. You should find in [1,2] plain text help files for almost anything you should happen to want to do. I could help more if you had posted the version of RSX and whether it is M+ plain M or 11S. I doubt it is 11S as there it is uncommon. When it comes to the older core memory UNIBUS systems - good luck. I lost a couple in the fire and the hobby market has gone crazy for them over the last couple years. I do know of a few still in commercial use that may eventually be replaced but they are dual processor shared memory and peripheral configurations that really complicates their replacement. Dan - Going back to check on the RSX11M+ SYSGEN I started for a customer when I started to catch up on the list. -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Smith <csmith(a)amdocs.com> To: Classiccmp (E-mail) <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Friday, November 16, 2001 11:30 AM Subject: Hello, and please help with RSX-11M/PDP parts > >This will be a lot to cram into one mail, but here we go... > >First off, Hi everybody. I'm newly subscribed to this list. > >Next, I was wondering whether anyone here can help my with my newly acquired >(IE rescued from the crusher) PDP-11/73. > >Straight to the point, I can get it to boot up RSX-11M, which is installed >on the fixed drive, and do *stuff*. (please correct me if I'm wrong on any >of this, by the way) > >I've figured out that the previous owner has disabled logins from the >console port, perhaps to defeat the "forgotten password" procedure that I >can't get to work ;) I can hit ^C and get an "MCR>" prompt, but nothing >else. > >There is another port which has user [10,10] logged in automatically when >the machine finishes booting, so I've been able to experiment with it some. >I've managed to figure out that INS and REM are MCR commands to insert and >remove images from the system. RUN seems to automatically insert, execute, >and perhaps afterwards remove an image. HEL will log you in (but not >without a password!), and BYE will log you out. > >What I'm missing here are basically any file-management commands! :) Does >anyone have a short reference? I could also use suggestions on a recovery >procedure to get access to the 0,0 account. > >Here are my thoughts: > >Put the drive in a MicroVAX-II (write-protected!), in place of the >MicroVAX's system disk. MOPboot the VAX from another, larger VAX, and ><edit?/move/do-something-to> either the UAF or the startup files to change >the 0,0 password, or change the boot procedure so that the "forgotten >password" process will work. > >(Anyone know if this is possible, or whether there's an easier way?) > >My understanding of this "forgotten password" process is that you hit ^C >early in the boot procedure to get the "MCR>" prompt, and run the command >REM ...AT. to de-install the command-file processor so that the system can't >fully bring itself up. This somehow should cause the system to give you >privileged CLI access. > >This system is a MicroPDP-11/73, with an "MFM" type fixed drive of unknown >size, two 4-port serial boards, and an RX50 (I think that's the strange >2-in-1 floppy drive?). It tells me on bootup that it's got 512k of RAM >"mapped." I've been assuming that this is the full amount of built-in RAM. >Please correct me if I'm wrong there. I'll get the CPU revision/OS >version/etc if needed, but I don't have the system handy right now. > >Once I get the machine up and running, I'll need to make a good backup of >the drive, in some kind of bootable form, since it's the only copy of RSX >I've got. I hear there's a stand-alone BRU. Is that the way to go? It's >likely I'll backup to floppy, and image the floppies to CD. I may also >remove a tk50 and controller from a MicroVAX II, so that I can backup to >tape, and dump the tape into a file using one of my VAXen. > >Given all of the above, any suggestions? > >If I've kept your attention this far, let me also ask another, more >open-ended question. > >I'd like to get an older, unibus based PDP-11 eventually. Ideally, here is >what I'd like: > >Core memory >Programming switches on the front-panel >Reel-to-reel tape >Small package (meaning half-size to 2/3 size a normal rack. I've seen >pictures of things like this. >Some kind of disk storage >Multi-port serial > >Any advice on collecting parts, or finding old parts/systems? I've already >been given, and taken the ebay advice. No luck there yet. > >Regards, > >Chris > >Christopher Smith, Perl Developer >Amdocs - Champaign, IL > >/usr/bin/perl -e ' >print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); >' >

24 years, 7 months

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OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa?

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>There's a connector on the back, which I'm sure is >"stock," that has an indicator on the back of the box suggesting it's a >network >connector of some sort. It's a 4-pin mini-DIN. Little 3 pronged thingy icon... thats ADB... plug the keyboard in there, chain the mouse thru the keyboard (you'll find the same connector on the keyboard) 4 pin mini din should only be ADB on a Mac... at least in terms of "stock" connectors. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 7 months

3
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OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa?

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>I've really never seen >anything involving hardware that could be done cheaply AND easily on a MAC. >Most things seem to be both insanely difficult and excruciatingly costly. I'll give you the expensive part (up until the latest machines with their USB, most mac hardware has been up to twice as much as the same thing on the PC). But EVERYTHING about Mac hardware is easy. Things just work. >IIRC, I once ordered a simple router of some sort, a PC/AT + "fancy" >monitor + >HP LaserJet printer + extra LJ memory + software for MUCH (nearly half) less >than it cost to attach the half-dozen MAC's in our office to an Apple laser >printer. Most of the cost for the Apple solution was for the Apple >printer, of >course, but it still left quite a margin! The fact that the Apple printer >used >postscript probably contributed mightily to its cost as opposed to the >LJII, but >it probably didn't cost that much. I could have used a postscript >cartridge, I >guess, but the software managed that problem. The postscript card probably would have been much cheaper. I don't recall if the HPLJII had provisions for adding localtalk or ethertalk, but there were boxes available back then that could provide it (plugged in to the parallel port). The two combined probably would have been cheaper than your PC + monitor. Which, of course, I won't argue was probably a cheaper solution than buying some of the Apple branded printers. >I can see why the MAC users of the mid '90's liked the MAC. It shuts down >right >away, as opposed to making you wait around to shut off the computer. Of >course, >I don't know how it behaves on a network. I've read that the reason the PC >under Windows shuts down slowly is because it takes time to dismiss the >various >connections, logical and physical on the LAN. I'm not convinced, however, >but >that's one excuse that's been published. Well, that is the advantage of using a GOOD OS (strictly speaking in comparison to Windows of the era, so compared to Win up to and including win95). Oh, and it behaves just fine with network connections (regardless of protocol)... far better than one would expect if you use Appletalk (once again... it just works... chatty, but works). -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 7 months

1
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Ultrix WS Software manual F4COS

by zaft＠azstarnet.com

That's an Ultrix Workstation Software manual, free for cost of shipping. Spine says: System Management Volume 1 Advanced Installation Guide Capacity Upgrade Instructions Intro to System and Network Management System Environment Setup Email me offlist if you wanted, first come first served... G

24 years, 7 months

1
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OT: paging MAC expert(s) --- What's a Performa?

by mythtech＠Mac.com

>Actually my Performa 631CD has a DOS card from a Performa 640 and it >doesn't need the three headed cable that the DOS card in my Powermac >6100 does. The 631's DOS card uses the Mac video output and you use a >command enter keysequence to switch between full screen DOS to Full >screen Mac. The back panel on the DOS card only has a D-15 joystick >connector that connects to the tiny Sound Blaster Vibra 16 card mounted >on the DOS card. I've never finished setting up the 6100's DOS card to >know how the video works on it. Interesting. I have used the DOS card on the 610 (both the Apple "houdini" card, and the Reply marketed card), the 6100, and the 4400/7200. ALL needed the DOS card cable. And although I haven't used the 7 or 12" PC cards apple sold for other PCI PowerMacs, I have seen them, and they all use the dongle cable too. That means, the 640's dos card was the ONLY one sold by apple that didn't need the cable. Very interesting indeed. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 7 months

1
0
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TRS-80 Model IV

by geoffr＠zipcon.net

there were 2 basic mod 4's IIRC, a unit that required a PAL upgrade for more ram and a Non-pal unit... I don't remember how to tell the difference anymore though :( At 02:08 PM 11/16/01 -0600, you wrote: >If they do, I'm not aware of it. This may be the case, though. > >Christopher Smith, Perl Developer >Amdocs - Champaign, IL > >/usr/bin/perl -e ' >print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); >' > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lawrence LeMay [mailto:lemay@cs.umn.edu] > > Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 1:23 PM > > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: TRS-80 Model IV > > > > > > I thought that they required a PAL in addition to extra ram chips, in > > order to install a memory upgrade.

24 years, 7 months

1
0
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QBUS FDDI (DEFQA)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 16, 8:36, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Eric Dittman <dittman(a)dittman.net> wrote: > > > > I'm in the process of converting most of my systems to FDDI... > > > > According to what I've read, the card is FDDI and not CDDI (which is how > > I refer to FDDI over copper, since there's not any F in CDDI). > > Is that like the joke with the line "there's no F in Chocolate"? LOL! I thought that too, but there's only an 'F' in FDDI on my net :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 7 months

1
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QBUS FDDI (DEFQA)

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On November 15, Eric Dittman wrote: > > Yup, they made 'em. Scarce as hen's teeth. I finally got one > > (purely by chance, actually!) after a *lot* of searching. > > You wouldn't happen to want to sell yours, would you? Nope, sorry man. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL

24 years, 7 months

2
1
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TRS-80 Model IV

by csmith＠amdocs.com

Again, there is one desktop, and one portable. I was relatively sure to keep all the cables in the proper spot. On the other hand, I can't say I checked well for corrosion/loose connections/etc. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Nadeau [mailto:menadeau@mediaone.net] > If you're not talking about the portables, I'd check the > obvious first. Open > up the case and reseat the video cables. Check for tarnished/corroded > connectors. I haven't opened a Model 4 in years, but as I recall it's > relatively easy to pull and twist the video cables in the > process, affecting > the connection.

24 years, 7 months

1
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OT: Fear and helpfulness on classiccmp

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On November 16, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > There is no honor in being pounded in the ass by someone called Bubba. I > recommend that we do only legal things regarding this CDC 960. Jeff, if I can't remove all of this Dr. Pepper from this keyboard, I will hold YOU responsible! ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL

24 years, 7 months

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Hello, and please help with RSX-11M/PDP parts

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Jerome Fine [mailto:jhfine@idirect.com] > Without the name of the actual hard drive (RD53,RD54?, etc.?) it is > difficult to help. PLUS, I don't have any idea of what RSX-11 > consists of internally. I *think* it's an RD53. I have never seen one before, but that's what I believe it to be. It's not an RD54... smaller than that. > However, what you suggest can easily be done with the current hardware > if you just use RT-11 and boot from a floppy on the RX50 > drive!!!!!!!!! That would be my first thought, except that I have nothing that will boot any PDP except for that disk. :) Of course, if anyone can supply media for RSX-11, RT-11, RSTS/E or something else, that would be an option. It is my understanding that RSX (except possibly RSX-11S) uses FILES-11/ODS1, to which I have recently acquired the specification. > If that is OK, I can tell you exactly what to do if you tell > me exactly > what bits you want to change - which block on which hard > drive and to what. > The latter will require someone who knows RSX-11. I have no clue at > all about what you need to change. But it might be as simple > as a start-up > command file and changing the text - if you know where to find it or > what the name is. That is my thought. Either a startup command file, or a UAF file. > Suggestion! If you do this, start by placing the hard drives in WRITE > PROTECT mode if that is possible! It is, and I've made a habit of switching the write-protect button every time I try something strange. Don't want to loose my only copy of the system software. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 7 months

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RC25s for parts+misc

by oliv555＠arrl.net

About to trash 2 doa rc-25s unless someone local (Houston area) wants them for parts. Also /ot/ for pickup only, about a 10 - 12 year collection of QST, Lowdown, NRC Journal plus a couple cartons of older PC related docs and misc radio/ham mags. All free, pickup only ... contact me off-list .. -nick o.

24 years, 7 months

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QBUS FDDI (DEFQA)

by dittman＠dittman.net

I'm in the process of converting most of my systems to FDDI, but a QBUS FDDI adapter is holding me up. Does anyone have a DEFQA they want to sell or trade? -- Eric Dittman dittman(a)dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

24 years, 7 months

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Hello, and please help with RSX-11M/PDP parts

by csmith＠amdocs.com

This will be a lot to cram into one mail, but here we go... First off, Hi everybody. I'm newly subscribed to this list. Next, I was wondering whether anyone here can help my with my newly acquired (IE rescued from the crusher) PDP-11/73. Straight to the point, I can get it to boot up RSX-11M, which is installed on the fixed drive, and do *stuff*. (please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, by the way) I've figured out that the previous owner has disabled logins from the console port, perhaps to defeat the "forgotten password" procedure that I can't get to work ;) I can hit ^C and get an "MCR>" prompt, but nothing else. There is another port which has user [10,10] logged in automatically when the machine finishes booting, so I've been able to experiment with it some. I've managed to figure out that INS and REM are MCR commands to insert and remove images from the system. RUN seems to automatically insert, execute, and perhaps afterwards remove an image. HEL will log you in (but not without a password!), and BYE will log you out. What I'm missing here are basically any file-management commands! :) Does anyone have a short reference? I could also use suggestions on a recovery procedure to get access to the 0,0 account. Here are my thoughts: Put the drive in a MicroVAX-II (write-protected!), in place of the MicroVAX's system disk. MOPboot the VAX from another, larger VAX, and <edit?/move/do-something-to> either the UAF or the startup files to change the 0,0 password, or change the boot procedure so that the "forgotten password" process will work. (Anyone know if this is possible, or whether there's an easier way?) My understanding of this "forgotten password" process is that you hit ^C early in the boot procedure to get the "MCR>" prompt, and run the command REM ...AT. to de-install the command-file processor so that the system can't fully bring itself up. This somehow should cause the system to give you privileged CLI access. This system is a MicroPDP-11/73, with an "MFM" type fixed drive of unknown size, two 4-port serial boards, and an RX50 (I think that's the strange 2-in-1 floppy drive?). It tells me on bootup that it's got 512k of RAM "mapped." I've been assuming that this is the full amount of built-in RAM. Please correct me if I'm wrong there. I'll get the CPU revision/OS version/etc if needed, but I don't have the system handy right now. Once I get the machine up and running, I'll need to make a good backup of the drive, in some kind of bootable form, since it's the only copy of RSX I've got. I hear there's a stand-alone BRU. Is that the way to go? It's likely I'll backup to floppy, and image the floppies to CD. I may also remove a tk50 and controller from a MicroVAX II, so that I can backup to tape, and dump the tape into a file using one of my VAXen. Given all of the above, any suggestions? If I've kept your attention this far, let me also ask another, more open-ended question. I'd like to get an older, unibus based PDP-11 eventually. Ideally, here is what I'd like: Core memory Programming switches on the front-panel Reel-to-reel tape Small package (meaning half-size to 2/3 size a normal rack. I've seen pictures of things like this. Some kind of disk storage Multi-port serial Any advice on collecting parts, or finding old parts/systems? I've already been given, and taken the ebay advice. No luck there yet. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 7 months

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single-board Z80 add-on for Apple][ types

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com> wrote: > Anothr thing I found among the Apple stuff in this last haul is a Z80 card with > the required extra 16K DRAM on board that's apparently made by Franklin > Computer. It's labelled ACE 80. That's the first one I've seen with the extra > DRAM block on board. IIRC it's a badge-engineered PCPI Applicard. Should have 8 64KB DRAMs on the board. And yes, those are the Z80's RAM. -Frank McConnell

24 years, 7 months

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Apple ][-series sound board??

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

>S-100 sound card. I believe Solid State Music started out as a company >that made S-100 sound cards. Indeed. It was not the first but certainly one of the better. >And then wasn't there also a sound card for the PDP-11 circa the early >1970s? Gigilo, I have one. Also based on two AY-mumble sound chips with stereo outputs. Allison

24 years, 7 months

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Datapro Reports on MiniComputers ???

by ip500＠home.com

Any one familiar with a wonderful series of loose leaf binders from DataPro ... "Reports on Minicomputers" circa 1978-80 or so? I just saw a set and would love to find a set for sale! More info than I've ever dreamed of ... all in one place .. and covering just about everything you ever wanted to know about many mini systems. ie: they had a really full writeup on InterData systems w/info I had never been able to find [maybe 30 pages of stuff .. all stamped "Not to be Reproduced"] anyone know if they are still in bix and would object to reproduction? Thanks, Craig Smith

24 years, 7 months

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Cable and connector source

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> If you want to know why I did this, think about : > > 1) Who do you associate with apples (the fruit, not the computer) Johhn Appleseed. Wait, he's an American, you most like wouldn't be referring to him. Must be Adam. No wait... Ok, Leibnitz! No wait, it's that guy that copied Leibniz, what's his name, they even named a chair after him.... Newton? > 2) When was he born Before me... > 3) Some of us celebrate his birthday rather than another event (possibly > birthday-related) on the same date :-). Must be Guy Fawkes' Day... no, that's in July, aint it? Columbus Day? All kidding aside, your galvanic battery is a great experiment; I think we did potato batteries in either Cub Scouts or school. I wish we'd had extremely low- power devices to hook up to it; we just used a voltmeter to demonstrate the output. -dq

24 years, 7 months

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Problem with the Video display

by ezhila＠igcar.ernet.in

Dear sir, I have a DEC PDP11/53 computer with Graftek Single Board Display Adapter Board. I dont get any display out from the card. The self test on the display board flashes LED 5 times indicating that possibly the DMA interface is problem. How do I go ahead in troubleshooting the board.Pl. send me enough information Thanking You Mrs.T.EZHILARASI Sceintific Officer/Engineer Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research Department of Atomic Energy Kalpakkam India phone : 91 4114 80306 fax: 91 4114 80081

24 years, 7 months

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In need of external SCSI enclosure...

by john_boffemmyer_iv＠boff-net.dhs.org

Anyone out there have a HD50, 4 bay external SCSI enclosure they are willing to part with (trade/money/etc.)? I've noticed that I've accumulated a small pile of old IDC50 1gig SCSI drives and I have decided to actually use them instead of allow them to keep my computer room door propped open. I've verified that they work, etc, but my little case cannot fit more than 2 drives (yes, a sucky mid-tower) and logically, an external would suit my needs. Finding them on ebay is like looking to pay porshe prices for a yugo. I last saw one (actually a 2 bay HD50) go for about $130 US, USED without power supply! Is there anyone out there willing to help spare my sanity for my SCSI obscession? Maybe it will give me room to play with my 2X SCSI CD-ROM drive and 250Meg Tape Drive... -John Boff. ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html ---------------------------------------

24 years, 7 months

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Cromemco + DIAB

by mhstein＠usa.net

-----------Original Message---------- Date: 15 Nov 2001 8:57:4 +0100 From: "Iggy Drougge" <optimus(a)canit.se> Subject: Cromemco + DIAB There's been some talk about Cromemco recently, and in one single Usenet post, I read something about a Cromemco UNIX box actually being a DIAB design. Presumably, this would be a 680[23]0 design. Do you have any ideas? ------------------------------------- Don't know if DIAB had anything to do with the design, but FWIW, Cromemco's Unix systems were S-100 based, first using a 10 MHz 68010 (XPU card), and later a 16.7 MHz 68020 with a 12.5 or 25 MHz 68881 (XXU card); don't know if anything came after that, maybe Cromemco in Europe might have more info. mike

24 years, 7 months

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QBUS FDDI (DEFQA)

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On November 15, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > I'm in the process of converting most of my systems to FDDI, but > > a QBUS FDDI adapter is holding me up. Does anyone have a DEFQA > > they want to sell or trade? > > I didn't know they ever made one. Is it _real_ FDDI or FDDI over UTP > (CDDI, sometimes called)? I recently passed up a small box of EISA CDDI > cards. Too much other schtuff in the car and it was a pay-per-trip to > scavenge stuff. Got a dual P-150, though. Make a nice Linux box. Yup, they made 'em. Scarce as hen's teeth. I finally got one (purely by chance, actually!) after a *lot* of searching. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL

24 years, 7 months

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MV3100 Memory

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

An acquaintance (freeware developer of VMS web/proxy server package) is looking to source some memory for a Microvax 3100 that some organisation in Macedonia (not sure which Macedonia, but probably the FYR) wish to use for a Web server. (seriously!) Anyone have anything in that line they would be prepared to part with cheap? I've offered a complete (minus drives) MV3400 and/or a 6000 but the freight would be nasty even on the 3400, so they really just want some ram. Sources in Oz or Europe preferred, but if the price is right, wherever.... OTOH, if someone in Europe has a complete VMS/Vax system that might be suitable and can arrange it to get there, that would be good too. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au ICQ 1970476

24 years, 7 months

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Neat computer cluster available for hauling in East Sussex, UK

by vcf＠vintage.org

If anyone is interested, go for it. Please reply directly to original sender. Reply-to: iain.barr(a)stbedesschool.org ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 16:36:12 +0000 From: "Mr Iain Barr (Director of IT)" <iain.barr(a)stbedesschool.org> Subject: Computer Donation We have recently de-commissioned a network of: 1 x RM LM Server (OS2) - hard disk failure 12 x RM Nimbus diskless workstations (286/386 M-Series PCs) + 14" VGA monitors plus some BNC cabling and a repeater (or two) We would prefer to donate rather than bin! We are an independent school in East Sussex. Are you interested? Please reply asap xxxxx xx xx x i b x j |-- Mr Iain J Barr Director of IT St Bede's School ---------------------------- http://www.stbedesschool.org ---------------------------- STANDARD DISCLAIMER: This message is confidential. You should not copy it or disclose its contents to anyone. You may use and apply the information only for the intended purpose. Internet communications are not secure and therefore St Bede's School does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message. Any views or opinions presented are only those of the author and not those of St Bede's School. If this email has come to you in error please delete it and any attachments. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

24 years, 7 months

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Xebec Sider for Apple II

by geoffr＠zipcon.net

At 11:27 AM 11/15/01 -0800, you wrote: >There were at least 2 versions of Sider drives/Cards... > >One was a straight ribbon cable... The other looked like a standard SCSI >cable but I don't remember if it was a real scsi interface or not... > >George Rachor Someone should try one of the old Tandy 8MB 8" HD chassis on one of those, they used a SASI interface also.. it might work :)

24 years, 7 months

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Xebec Sider for Apple II

by r_beaudry＠hotmail.com

Hello all, I recently received a Xebec Sider drive (external hard drive for the Apple II) -- Thanks RE! It did not, however, come with the card that goes in the Apple II, nor did it come with the cable. Judging by their going price on eBay, I know this is a futile attempt, but does anybody have a spare card/cable that they'd be willing to part with (or could be pried out of their hands by $)? I'd rather not pay eBay prices, so perhaps a trade?? Anyway, let me know, and try not to laugh too hard.... Thanks! Rich B. "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin

24 years, 7 months

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VAX (Was: Cromemco landmarks)

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On November 15, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Speaking of the 8200, does anyone have any 8250 CPUs lying around? I > would love to take my 8300 up to an 8350. I'd rather trade than buy > at this point - it's a very low-priority upgrade. I may have a couple. I will keep my eye out for them as I unpack my stuff post-move. If you don't find some in a few weeks, ping me. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL

24 years, 7 months

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Xebec Sider for Apple II

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 15, 8:33, Ernest wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Pete Turnbull > > > What would it look like? I assume it would have a ribbon > > connector between > > the Apple card and the Sider. Do you know how many pins? I don't think > > the card I have is what you want, but you never know... > > It has a Xebec label on the card, and a wide rainbow ribbon cable comming > directly off the tail end of the card. Yeah, but how wide is "wide"? The card I have seems not to be what's required. It's intended to connect to a Xebec card all right, but the connector is only 26-way. Thanks to Dick Erlacher who mailed me with the details, I know the Sider needs rather more wires (all 50, probably). My card was made by HAL Computers Ltd in 1983, labelled "APPLE 2/3 XEBEC INTERFACE REV 1", and the only strings I can find in the EPROM are "(C) HAL COMPUTERS LTD 1983 A/XHAL SHARED RESOURCE WINCHESTER SYSTEM", "NOT CONNECTED", and "SRS ERROR". If anybody knows any more about this, I'd be interested to hear about it, otherwise it will languish in my box of odd cards for a day when I'm particularly bored and decide to try it out (yes, I have a spare Xebec controller and ST412 drives). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 7 months

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Cable and connector source

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 8, 21:54, Don McClure wrote: > > [ plain text > Encoded with "quoted-printable" ] : Yes, I am learning to hate them too. I ruined two mini-DINs when trying to > solder them up. I'm going to try again using crimp connectors instead, when > I locate some. I've never seen any crimp miniDINs, so don't wait too long ;-) There's a trick to soldering them. Stick the plug in a socket (or, btter still, a potato) to solder it. It stops things getting too hot and melting. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 7 months

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Cromemco landmarks

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On November 9, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Isn't this rather odd? The MicroVAX II is supposed to be 0,5 VUP, right? So > what have the DEC engineers done to make it just as fast in the Dhrystone and > even faster than the 11/780 in the Whetstone benchmarks? 0.9 VUP, not 0.5. -Dave -- Dave McGuire St. Petersburg, FL

24 years, 7 months

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AI and mythology - and let's stop the spirituality flaming (was: OT again Re: food)

by rdd＠smart.net

In some previous message, Marvin Johston wrote: > Subject: OT again Re: food It never ceases to amaze me how messages that start out pertaining to classic computers can become transformed into messages about food and then into messages pertaining to philosophy, mythology and religion. :-) To help steer things back on-topic, is anyone here familiar with AI programs pertaining to mythology used on classic computers? > I can't believe there is anybody who doesn't believe in God. I could reply with: Hey, why'd you leave out the other half, the Goddess that some of us also believe in? :-) ...although perhaps some of us don't believe in a God and Goddess literally, but as balanced manifestations of the divine. However... Let's please not have religious warfare on this list; the world has seen more than enough of that. Some of us believe in some form, or forms, of deity literally; some of us take an approach similar to that of Albert Einstein, an agnostic approach, and just consider it all to be a mystery that we don't have definite knowledge of, but feel that some form of deity and afterlife exist and still value spirituality, etc. Are these not all just different paths to the same thing, with more similarites than differences once the dogma is stripped away? There's n benefit to arguing or fighting over the differences... different spiritual beliefs work for, and are helpful to, different people. Then, there are the atheiests who don't believe in the spiritual at all - but it's not for me to censure them for their disbelief, just as it's not right for them to censure anyone else for their beliefs. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd(a)rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.

24 years, 7 months

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hard-sector 5 1/4 disk

by jdonogh1＠prodigy.net

Anybody ever see anything that uses hard sector 5 1/4 disks? I've only ever seen one in my lifetime - just curious if they were ever used anywhere else (the one I saw was used to load microcode into a mainframe CPU)

24 years, 7 months

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Xebec Sider for Apple II

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 14, 14:32, Rich Beaudry wrote: > I recently received a Xebec Sider drive (external hard drive for the Apple > II) -- Thanks RE! > > It did not, however, come with the card that goes in the Apple II, nor did > it come with the cable. What would it look like? I assume it would have a ribbon connector between the Apple card and the Sider. Do you know how many pins? I don't think the card I have is what you want, but you never know... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 7 months

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food

by rdd＠smart.net

Skip to the the end part of this message to learn what typical American meals truly consisted of in the pre-vegetarian times. Hint: ...it wasn't fast food or hamburgers. :-) On Fri, 9 Nov 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > You forgor the 80's..... hamburger chains WITH salad bars! Wendys was > the longest running, well into the 90s, but Burger King had one for a > short while too, maybe even McDonalds too... I don't recall. The first fast-food chain that I recall having a salad bar, and that was back around the late 1970's, was White Coffee Pot Jr... not sure if they were just a Baltimore area phenomena or if they existed elsewhere. They were not the typical fast food chain, as, in addition to the salad bar, one could get fried shrimp, carrot cake, crab soup, and towards the end, cheese steak subs. The french fries were delicious as they were cooked in chicken fat (that was back in my pre-semi-vegetarian days); trying to remember if they sold fried chicken as well - I think they did, but can't swear to it. Next, Gino's hamburger chain had a salad bar - that was back in the late 1970's as well. It was an "all you can eat" salad bar, and, if one purchased a hamburger, one could use any toppings one wanted from the salad bar on it - the styrofoam packaging used back then made it very convenient to fit lots of salad toppings in with a hamburger to go. > Mike Ford wrote: > > > Different foods have there times, around the 60s it was "chili bowl" > > joints, 70s salad bars, 80s hamburger chains (that failed to go away). > > Whats an orthodox diner meal, lettuce salad, meat and potatoes with gravy, > > some kind of veggie, and a slice of pie. How about a guess on the top ten > > favorite foods in USA (by meals eaten)? Ok, to help the rest of the world understand the truth about American food, here's what typical American meals really consisted of in the pre-vegeterian times: When I was growing up, we always had a wide variety of vegetables - and they were fresh, not frozen/canned, when in season (corn, peas, string beans, lima beans, peas, sweet potatoes, broccoli, brussel sprouts, lettuce, tomatoes, etc...) with meals; potatoes were often mashed and served with gravy - sometimes they were baked and topped with salt, pepper and butter or margarine. Meats consisted of roasts, steaks, pork chops, ham, chicken, lean ground beef, shrimp, and occasional Cornish game hens. In the summer we also had fried chicken, crab cakes, hamburgers outside on the grill, fried tomatoes, corn on the cob, fried eggplant, fresh salads (definitely not limited to lettuce, by the way), watermellon, etc. There was always fresh fruit to go along with lunches, such as apples, peackes, nectarines, pears, oranges, etc. ...then meals with a turkey to be sliced on Thanksgiving and Christmas. ...and for breakfast, one or more of: cereal with milk, toast, scrambled eggs, waffles, french toast, grapefruit, bacon or Taylor's pork roll, and orange juice to drink. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd(a)rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.

24 years, 7 months

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classiccmp-digest V1 #777

by CHoaglin＠aol.com

Mike Ford wrote: >Maybe I am being simple, but putting in the top bid seems like the sure >route to acquiring this unit. >Anybody have a CLUE as to its value as scrap? If somebody can give me an idea of how many boards there are in such a machine, ideally a picture of some boards, or at least an estimate as to the dimensions of said boards and what sort of package chips they used, plastic, ceramic, gold capped or gold pins etc, I'll try to come up with a ballpark figure, and might ask some other people I know in the business for input. I scrap/dispose of/remarket gear for a living, so I've dealt with a lot of scrap, though nothing really mainframe related. Gold processors like Pentium 60's have around $50 a pound worth of gold in them, never pentiums maybe only $35 to $40(that's what's in them, the scrapyards will pay around half that) The presence of other things like platinum, palladium, rhodium or other more exotic metals can complicate these calculations, and old processors most likely have more precious metals content than the old pentiums. If they use anything like the TCM modules in IBM mainframes (the HUGE PGA package chips maybe 4 inches on a side, and use them in any quantity, there may be some real scrap value, since those things have around $75 worth of metals apiece in them by current prices. Standard PC motherboards go for around 65 cents a pound, daughtercards go for almost $1/lb, card edges $25/lb. Aluminum drives go for around 10 cents/lb or so, more like 15 when the Al market is decent. The racks are pretty much worthless if they're steel. I've heard figures as high as $3/lb on old Q-bus boards, though I'm not sure if the place was buying them for scrap or resale as Q-bus boards. If anybody can get me any further information I'll do my best to come up with a figure. -Chris

24 years, 7 months

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