- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by mythtech＠mac.com

>The fact (well, at least my opinion) is that Apple makes it easy to >remain completely ignorant of most important things about their >computer while still "using" them. I won't disagree with you. But Richard spouts out as an expert in all things computer... if he has half the brains, and computer smarts he trys to claim... then he should have known far more about the Mac then he appears to if he has "5+ years of daily use". I have friends with the IQ of a potato, who have less than 5+ years of non daily use of a Mac, and know far more than Richard appears to know. I just find it hard to swallow... taken in context with everything else Richard says. I just went over as many of Richards emails as I still have on this machine, and I found that maybe it isn't so much that Richard is lying, so much as he is twisting the truth. Like for instance, he said he bought the AppleVision monitor for $3.95 when he got it ("It's only a small risk at $3.95."), but then just now said he paid $2.95 ("including the Applevision monitor for $2.95"). Sure, he isn't lying, he just forgot the price by a $1 since last week... acceptable, understandable, not a problem. Except that he does that thru almost EVERYTHING he writes (he paid ~$10 for two performa's including tax... but then later the reduced by a buck monitor was lumped into that same approx $10 price, significantly reducing the price he is implying he paid... again, it is a rounding issue, it isn't a lie... it is just implying something that is not quite true.) He also tries to spout off as an expert in any topic he is discussing, but when you go back and look at the facts, he admits that he has no idea what he is talking about (he claims Mac's have a 250% price premium... but he hasn't looked at pricing in over 15 years... except he checked ebay and it says prices are 2.5:1). So what he REALLY said is... he has NO idea what current prices are, but he is going to pretend he knows, and he is going to hold Apple responsible for the prices that he will assume to be true, and he will base as his only source of proof, the used prices he finds on eBay, and he will ignore the historically higher resale value of the Mac over the generic PC. So I appologize, Richard isn't lying, he is simply not telling the whole truth, and is implying far more than he should, and attempts to make people believe he is an expert on topics by speaking of things as if they are fact, when in reality he has no real knowledge of the facts, but just assumes anything he thinks must be correct, and treats it as such. >like a mouse that has only >one button... to avoid confusion I really wish Apple would cut the crap with that. They freaking introduce contextual menus with OS 8, but STILL refuse to release a two button mouse. But then, maybe they are not bundling a multi-button mouse in order to help 3rd party companies sell them... who knows. >> Not to mention, you stated back when it all started that you haven't >> seriously touched a computer by Apple in 15 years except to pull the >> power supplies from them. > >Ok, that's somewhat of an odd statement in context. > >Could it be that he wasn't doing "serious" work on the systems at the >time? see... that is just what I am talking about. He will claim he hasn't seriously touched them in years, implying that he never uses them, and knows little about them. Then later, when it suits his statements, he will claim that he has 5+ years of daily useage of them. It may be that neither is false. Maybe 10 years ago, he stopped using the Mac after having done 5+ years working with them. That would let him have 5 years of useage under his belt AND not have touched them in years. Or maybe, like you say, he means serious in the strictest of senses, and he hasn't used the Mac for "hard core" work in years, but uses them for games every day. With the way he twists everything to fit what he wants at a given moment, you just can't tell. I do know one thing... if I ever need a someone to argue a case for me... I think I want Richard on my side... he has the best doublespeak I have ever seen (read?). -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 1 month

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by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

> From: Richard Erlacher > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris" <mythtech(a)mac.com> > > > > I can't... I just can't any more. I have been trying to be nice to > > Richard despite all the clear flame bait he has been throwing out here. > > > > But with his comment above, I just can't any more. > > ... > > > > > I'm sorry... I just can't do it any more. > > > Then don't ... When you get old enough that you're out in the working > world, > where your performance is measured on whether or not you meet schedule and > budget, and not on how cute your comments are, you'll understand the > realities > of why people use what they do. If you're just idly fiddling with > something > interesting at home, nobody cares how long it takes you. > > Chris --- This is cute, and kinda funny, since Rich has seemed to have forgotten all the times you talk about being in the fire dep't, well, and the fact that you _are_ in the working world... I thought one of the rules of engagement was to 'know your enemy'? -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

24 years, 1 month

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2708 Programming Algorithm - Thanks Everybody!

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Loboyko Steve <sloboyko(a)yahoo.com> >An additional ugliness in the spec is that apparently >the -5 has to be the first and last voltage the chip >sees. I hope that this is not TOO critical...sometimes >I forget how "good" we have it now. It is critical. I've destroyed 2708s in a system that did +12 first by error. FYI: it doesnt matter howmuch before the two positive supplies on that -5V is first on and last off. 4104s and 4116s (drams) also had a similar requirement as did many of the other three voltage parts. Allison

24 years, 1 month

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APPLEVISION Monitor

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

> From: John Allain > > From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> > Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 1:37 PM > > <delete> > - ***chuckle, chuckel*** While that is a good idea, I am getting some good giggles and grins from reading this whole exchange, especially since I've met Chris in person a couple times... -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

24 years, 1 month

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by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > That stuff is irrelevant, since *nix was demonstrated to be > an insufferable > cost and pain back in '82. Someting that ugly and > unfriendly, that tore down > the system each time an application had to be patched, > resulting in days of > downtime was just not acceptable. As a result, *nix hasn't > gotten much of a > look around here since then, aside from a brief peek at > Linux. ... and > neither has SUN hardware. General relevancy aside (I assume you're speaking subjectively for you own use above)... In the context of being used for -- whatever you use your computer for -- I'd agree that its relative ability in any area is irrelevant if you won't consider using it anyway. I just wanted to mention, in case anyone reading may not know, that it's no longer the case (and has not been for a very long time) that you must re-build the kernel every time you'd like a new driver. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 1 month

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Fresh Email Lists at Unbelievable Prices

by tothwolf＠concentric.net

On Sun, 5 May 2002, Ted Harris wrote: > > The Freshest Bulk Email Lists > at Deep Discount Prices > > Datasurplus is the best source for bulk email lists.? > > All lists are harvested within the last 3 weeks. Well, at least now I know who harvested my email address from the list... (I started getting massive amounts of spam a couple weeks after my first post here...) -Toth

24 years, 1 month

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by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Cameron Kaiser [mailto:spectre@stockholm.ptloma.edu] > > Sorry, I have to argue with you here ;) > > The fact (well, at least my opinion) is that Apple makes it easy to > > remain completely ignorant of most important things about their > > computer while still "using" them. > For five years? Granted, I'm a bit more clueful than the Well, again, all I can say is that I've seen it happen. More extreme than the usual case, of course, but it's certainly not impossible. Though, Dick actually strikes me as more clueful than the last person that I know who managed it. > average home computer > user, but within weeks I was into the guts of my Macs. Not to > the extent I'm > into my C64, but that's a less complex system. Yep. It's not impossible, given the motivation. Most people are missing that part, though ;) > At the very least, in five years he could have learned to > write Macintosh > correctly. Could have -- may not have. > Apple actually has very good utility software. MPW has been > free for some > time, for example. And there's the Apple Developer Hey, I love MPW. It's great. I used it daily when I was writing Mac code, but it certainly didn't come with the system, and it's not something that Apple encourages people to have. > Connection, too, which > you can browse freely, and oodles of tech notes and explanations. Indeed. Apple is much friendlier to developers than microsoft, who I find that I have to deal with recently. :/ > Like everything else in life, you get out of the system what > you put into it. Yep, which brings us back to my point that Apple really doesn't encourage people to learn about their systems. They've positioned themselves as "the system that you don't have to put so much into," have they not? Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 1 month

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by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Chris [mailto:mythtech@mac.com] > Richard... are you being treated for your compulsive liar behavior > problems? You can not possibly have 5+ years of daily Mac use > under your > belt, and show the ignorance of Mac concepts you showed when > asking about > the AppleVision monitor and the Performa 630 (or whatever > model it was > you bought). Sorry, I have to argue with you here ;) The fact (well, at least my opinion) is that Apple makes it easy to remain completely ignorant of most important things about their computer while still "using" them. (I'll define "using" in the above as "doing the same mundane things that everyone else does with their computer") I'd say that Apple even encourages user-ignorance by not including applications that will even let you get at the filesystem with their O/S -- Finder doesn't count because it won't show desktop (and friends) at all, and God help you if you want to set file attributes. With OS X, that's hopefully changed. That lack of utility software, among other things done by Apple (think all-in-one, closed box designs) serves to keep users in the dark about many things. Now, I can't prove this, but I've personally seen it, so take that how you will. I've of course heard all of the Mac Zealot spin on my complaints above and I know all about how some people think that those things are actually advantages -- like a mouse that has only one button... to avoid confusion -- , but I don't buy it :) The thing is that I really do like Apple, and a lot of their hardware and software, and I hope to see it become a good product (for me, It's already a fine product for some people) some day. > Not to mention, you stated back when it all started that you haven't > seriously touched a computer by Apple in 15 years except to pull the > power supplies from them. Ok, that's somewhat of an odd statement in context. Could it be that he wasn't doing "serious" work on the systems at the time? Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 1 month

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by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] > word. People who've never even heard the word computer > before can be writing > letters and reports within 10 minutes of their first contact > with Windows. In Are you sure? That's remarkable, but I don't believe it for a minute. :) I'd be impressed if you've seen this demonstrated, and more impressed if, after writing the letter, they could ever find it again. > the first time I ever encountered Windows, I loaded it up started an > application and was going within minutes, having read no doc's, having > compiled no kernel, and having done little else other than > typing the setup ... but you had seen a computer before, right? Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 1 month

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APPLEVISION Monitor

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: David Woyciesjes [mailto:DAW@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu] > ...and now some flashbacks to the DB15 - DE15 naming convention > thread...Eeek! I vote that we hereafter call the DE15 "ZQ32," and the Macintosh, to avoid confusion, can be "Grundey." Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 1 month

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APPLEVISION Monitor

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

> From: Chris > > >... and just exactly where does one find a precise reference to this > >convention? > > I can't quote a source, but I can say that traditionally, in English, all > caps refers to an anacronym. And since MAC has something it stands for, > each and every time you refer to a Macintosh as "MAC" you are in fact > refering to something other than the Macintosh computer. > > And typing it as MacIntosh is just simply wrong. Look at any literature > by Apple, you will never see it with a capitol I. I think that is a throw > off from people that are typing it via the name of the fruit, which is > ALSO wrong, since the name of the fruit is McIntosh (no a). > > Its just a pet peeve... I'm not going to really care if you continue to > type it MAC... but doing so shows a gross ignorance of the platform, and > really undermines any and all arguments you may have to say for or > against it. You can't really take someone seriously in discusssions of a > system if they can't refer to it correctly, as it just shows that they > have spent so little time dealing with the system, that they clearly > can't base their statements on anything educated. It doesn't matter if it > is the Mac, or if it is something else. > > -chris > ...and now some flashbacks to the DB15 - DE15 naming convention thread...Eeek! -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

24 years, 1 month

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APPLEVISION Monitor

by mythtech＠mac.com

>but I do have 5+ years of daily >Macintosh use under my belt. I can't... I just can't any more. I have been trying to be nice to Richard despite all the clear flame bait he has been throwing out here. But with his comment above, I just can't any more. Richard... are you being treated for your compulsive liar behavior problems? You can not possibly have 5+ years of daily Mac use under your belt, and show the ignorance of Mac concepts you showed when asking about the AppleVision monitor and the Performa 630 (or whatever model it was you bought). Not to mention, you stated back when it all started that you haven't seriously touched a computer by Apple in 15 years except to pull the power supplies from them. So unless your 5+ years of daily use are to clean the screen, you must be full of BS (is that it, you aren't really into computers... you just work as a janitor at a computer museum, and like to pretend?) I'm sorry... I just can't do it any more. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 1 month

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Open source -- non computer topics

by nemesis-lists＠icequake.net

Christopher Smith said: > Debian's nice, but it has its share of "political" garbage too, like > the "GNU/Linux" plastered all over the place, or the fact that they > insist on keeping "non-free" software separate. It's not just "garbage". There is a reason for it, that the majority of the Debian community agrees with, or it wouldn't be done. Plain and simple. I'm sure you are already aware of the reasons, but reject them. What you label "garbage" are the very attributes that many Debian members hold dear. If you don't like Debian, you are free to either attempt to improve it, or join the ranks of others who use a different system. It's a personal choice. Debian is different for a reason. -- Ryan Underwood, <nemesis at icequake.net>, icq=10317253

24 years, 1 month

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Northstar Horizon Stuff

by JBrain＠aegonusa.com

I just found some old N* Horizon parts during a cleaning fit. I have the following: Lots of hard sector disks 2 64 RAM board. 2 FD controllers 2 Z80B boards 2 FD drives 1 motherboard I do have the cases (with the PS and such, but only until Thursday, since they are scheduled to be pitched this week. They aren't in the best of shape, and they are SO heavy, so I pulled what I thought was worth the shipping weight cost out of the 2 units. If you do want a case part or a capacitor, let me know before Thursday so I can have my wife pull the part off the chopping block. Anyone interested in S100 parts and hard sector disks? The units were working last time I used them, but that was 5 years ago. I make no promises. If there are a few folks, I want to spread the wealth. Basically, I just don't want the parts to sit in the landfill. You might want to email me directly, to not clog up the list, and because I have limited access to email this week while out of the office and lists will probably get queued until next week. Jim Jim Brain, jbrain(a)aegonusa.com "Researching tomorrow's decisions today." (319) 369-2070 (work) SYSTEMS ARCHITECT, ITS, AEGON FINANCIAL PARTNERS

24 years, 1 month

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APPLEVISION Monitor

by DAW＠yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu

> From: Christopher Smith > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: David Woyciesjes [mailto:DAW@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu] > > > ...and now some flashbacks to the DB15 - DE15 naming convention > > thread...Eeek! > > I vote that we hereafter call the DE15 "ZQ32," and the Macintosh, to > avoid confusion, can be "Grundey." > > Chris > huh? Where did you get that from? -- --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash

24 years, 1 month

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APPLEVISION Monitor

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Chris [mailto:mythtech@mac.com] > I know you like to make sure your grammer and spelling is > correct, so I > figured I should point out the painfully mistake you have been making > thru all your conversations. Wow, that's almost as good a quote as the previous one about Dick being a "pain in the ass..." Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 1 month

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ESDI (was: free DEC M7555 card

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> >Allison is, of course, absolutely correct. >ST506/412, what is often sloppily called "MFM" provides a set of signals ;) call it the right thing and duh the're baffled. Better to obscure. >> The problem with EDSI was it sued the same cables as MFM IE: the pair > ^^^^ >We live in a litigious society. Let e'm, they still have to prove I'm not isdlexyc. ;) >> of 26 pin and 34pin. The interfaces however were toally incompatable. > ^^ >Odd. Mine seem to have 20 Ok, sumptin like that. Blame it on prescription drugs for this @#$%^&!!! bug. Allison

24 years, 1 month

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2708 Programming Algorithm?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 6, 8:21, Loboyko Steve wrote: > I obtained a bunch of 2708 UVEPROM's, and I'd like to > be able to program them. As you may know, they require > a different algorithm than the 2716 and on, and three > voltages, +5, +12, and -5. > > I'm building a little board that will program 1/2 (the > upper or lower) of a 2716 to a 2708 (I can program > 2716's). But I can't find a description of the > algorithm that is detailed enough. What I think I know > is: > > 1. The /OE line must be high > 2. select address and data (start at addr 0) > 3. bring PGM line from 0 to 27 volts for 1 mSec, then > drop back to 0 (this seems very strange) > 4. repeat 100 times per address (not all at once, > increment the address lines and loop to avoid > "overheating" a byte. > 5. drop /OE and verify. My 1976 Intel databook differs slightly from that. 1. raise /CS (pin 20) to +12V 2. select address and data 3. not less than 10 microsecs later, apply programming pulse to pin 18 4. hold address and data for at least 1 microsec, then move on to next 5. repeat for required number of iterations 6. drop /CS to normal (*without* changing the address) and verify. The required number of iterations depends on the width of the program pulse. Minimum pulse width is 0.1ms, max is 1ms. The spec calls for a total of 100ms programming time per location. V(IHP) on pin 18 is 25V (min) to 27V (max) I(IPL) on pin 18 is 3mA I(DD) is 50mA (typical) to 65mA (max) -- Vdd (+12V +/- 5%) supply current I(CC) is 6mA (typical) to 10mA (max) -- Vcc ( +5V +/- 5%) supply current I(BB) is 30mA (typical) to 45mA (max) -- Vbb ( -5V +/- 5%) supply current Yes, these are almost identical to the read currents. > 3. bring PGM line from 0 to 27 volts for 1 mSec, then > drop back to 0 (this seems very strange) Why does that seem strange? It's the programming pulse, which overcomes the barrier imposed by the floating gate on the EPROM cell. It needs to be high enough to overcome the barrier potential, and you don't want address or data changing while that is possible. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

24 years, 1 month

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2708 Programming Algorithm?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

Steve, That sounds bogus. I'd have to check and I'm not at home. Memory says that the 2708 was one of the first with the relatively easy program sequences but the 1mS*100 sounds strange for that part. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Loboyko Steve <sloboyko(a)yahoo.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Monday, May 06, 2002 11:38 AM Subject: 2708 Programming Algorithm? >I obtained a bunch of 2708 UVEPROM's, and I'd like to >be able to program them. As you may know, they require >a different algorithm than the 2716 and on, and three >voltages, +5, +12, and -5. > >I'm building a little board that will program 1/2 (the >upper or lower) of a 2716 to a 2708 (I can program >2716's). But I can't find a description of the >algorithm that is detailed enough. What I think I know >is: > >1. The /OE line must be high >2. select address and data (start at addr 0) >3. bring PGM line from 0 to 27 volts for 1 mSec, then >drop back to 0 (this seems very strange) >4. repeat 100 times per address (not all at once, >increment the address lines and loop to avoid >"overheating" a byte. >5. drop /OE and verify. > > >Does anybody have an authoritative description, and a >current requirement for the +5, +12, -5, and >programming pulse? Thanks. > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness >http://health.yahoo.com

24 years, 1 month

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Fresh Email Lists at Unbelievable Prices

by dwightk.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Jay West" <jwest(a)classiccmp.org> > > >And then posts like this always spread like wildfire as another user or two >chimes in "Hey, I just joined here and started getting spam too!" Geeze - >look at the sample size people. > Hi Jay I re-joined here about 1 month ago and haven't seen any spam other than the noise level of this group. Dwight

24 years, 1 month

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So-Called Real Programmers and FORTRAN

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Allison [mailto:ajp166@bellatlantic.net] > I disagree. The UCSD version was an excellent teaching tool but > slower than sludge due to the P-code thing. Later implementations > namely JRT and Borland were very useful tools. I'm also of that opinion. I like Pascal, and Modula, and Oberon... Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 1 month

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So-Called Real Programmers and FORTRAN

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] : reply ( originalmessage -- newdrivel) ">" . . > function reply(void) > { > > > 20 C MY GRIPE WITH PASCAL WAS THAT IT WAS ALL ONE PROGRAM > > > 30 C EVERY FORTRAN AFTER II COULD HAVE MODULES DEFINED > > (* Pascal had adherents early, but it remained a teaching > > language until the early 1980s. Although Turbo Pascal > > didn't permit modules, it did provide $INCLUDE files, > > and depending on the application area, you could often > > accomplish the same thing using includes. *) > // What about the "uses" directive? I didn't program in > Pascal a whole > // lot but I remember when I did need something like a > graphics library > // I "use"d it. (I remember the directive, but it's been a long time since) (I've used it.) "too" " " "Me" > > > 100 STOP > > END. > } ; Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 1 month

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APPLEVISION Monitor

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> >The MAC, for example, > > I have been ignoring this, but I just can't any more. [..spelling lession snipped..] There is one acceptable situation wherein one would capitalize the name of the Mac... WHEN SHOUTING! ;)

24 years, 1 month

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So-Called Real Programmers and FORTRAN

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> "Douglas H. Quebbeman" wrote: > > > My Data Structures prof lamented the fact (by his observation) > > that most people write Pascal in its FORTRAN subset... > > 10 C WHAT SUBSET IS THAT? (* The subset wherein everything is type in UPPER CASE and no variable names were longer than six characters. *) > 20 C MY GRIPE WITH PASCAL WAS THAT IT WAS ALL ONE PROGRAM > 30 C EVERY FORTRAN AFTER II COULD HAVE MODULES DEFINED (* Pascal had adherents early, but it remained a teaching language until the early 1980s. Although Turbo Pascal didn't permit modules, it did provide $INCLUDE files, and depending on the application area, you could often accomplish the same thing using includes. *) > 40 C .NOR. COULD YOU EVER FIGURE OUT > 50 C WHEN TO PUT A SEMI-COLEN .OR. .NOT. AT THE END OF A > 60 C STATEMENT (* Oh, IIRC, the semicolon is a STATEMENT TERMINATOR in Algol; in Pascal, it's statement seperator. That should make it clear. *) > 100 STOP END. -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits

24 years, 1 month

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Score! IBM, Mac, Altos Goodies

by doc＠mdrconsult.com

Not a _great_ score, as I'll have to pay real cash for it, but I picked up an Altos ACS 8000-2 today, to be delivered the 15th. Yay! Now I guess I _really_ need to find the CP/M man pages..... Also grabbed: Quadra 700 $1 A spare CPU and 2 more drive drawers for the NEC Risc Server I'll be working on this weekend. Anybody with any info on this one - a dual-CPU RT-4620-27A5S - is more than welcome to chime in. (Update: the NEC seems to have cabling/termination issues on the RAID backplane. Project on hold pending documentation) An IBM Model 9577-ATG PS/2 - 486DX4/100 w/ Future Domain SCSI adapter, 32M ram, token ring, and 541M SCSI hdd. Which I'll be working on instead of the NEC box.... $4 Spare Future Domain MCA SCSI, internal cable & 1G drive Free A box (6) of Model 77 CPU stands Free A CPU stand for my 7043-140 (I think) Free 2 SCSI cold-swap drive drawers (narrow SCSI) w/Connor drives installed. No model on the drives yet $5 each 2 Piper 16 MCA sound cards Free 1 Tandon full-height 48tpi 5.25" floppy (TM100?) $.50 1 Mitsumi 5.25" floppy w/full-height black bezel and "EMI cage." Haven't looked at the model # yet. $.50 1 No-labelled full-height 5.25" floppy. Black bezel, center trap latch, not a rotating lever. $.10 Doc

24 years, 1 month

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So-Called Real Programmers and FORTRAN

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > // What about the "uses" directive? I didn't program in Pascal a whole > > // lot but I remember when I did need something like a graphics library > > // I "use"d it. > > Not in the original standard (from N. Wirth, may you pronounce him by > value or by reference or by whatever... ;-), so this must have been an > extension from your compiler's manufacturer. I believe Ken Bowles' team at UCSD first added that extension to their Pascal, which in turn begat Lisa Clascal and MPW Object Pascal. Which brings me to a good question: does anyone have any documentation for Lisa Clascal? I thought it might be in the two-volume loose-leaf Inside Macintosh, but it appears not. -dq

24 years, 1 month

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free DEC M7555 card

by jfoust＠threedee.com

This is a RQDX3 ESDI hard disk controller. - John >Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 12:21:04 -0700 >To: MSA listserver <Microscopy(a)sparc5.microscopy.com> >From: Gary Gaugler <gary(a)gaugler.com> >Subject: DEC M7555 card > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >The Microscopy ListServer -- Sponsor: The Microscopy Society of America >To Subscribe/Unsubscribe -- Send Email to ListServer(a)MSA.Microscopy.Com >On-Line Help http://www.msa.microscopy.com/MicroscopyListserver/FAQ.html >-----------------------------------------------------------------------. > > >Disclaimer: This is not a for sale posting. > >I ran across an LSI-11 bus M7555 card which >seems to be in good condition. No idea what it >is or if it works. It has a ribbon connector (1) >on the pull handles end. It is a DEC card. > >Free to a good home. > >gary g.

24 years, 1 month

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Repair vs. replace (was Re: APPLEVISION Monitor)

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> > The guys who can't afford more than $100 are not a big part of the market. > However, it's not fair to ignore 'em. The reason most shops here croak after a couple of years is because they *do* ignore them. In fact, many send this sort of customer to me. > I just don't see how one can make a > living selling used parts when a replacement for the whole she-bang costs >$10 > like the one I snagged last week. Are people really willing to pay $100 to > repair something they could easily replace for $10 if they were to look? Yes. Many of these folks are using hand-me-down computers and wouldn't have a clue of what to buy if they were looking for a replacement. A number of my customers are SOHO, auto repair, day care, etc., and need to retain their data and applications, so for them to just buy a replacement would be disruptive to their business. As far as making a living doing this, I charge about $100 (*new* parts and labor) to replace a power supply, modem, or CD-ROM drive, or to wipe the hdd and reload Windows and the device drivers (which the customer almost never has). After 10 years in business we have a reputation for doing the job right, and for honoring the warranties we put on our work. Can you see how it would be possible to make a living doing 10 or 15 of these easy jobs every day? Glen 0/0

24 years, 1 month

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Fresh Email Lists at Unbelievable Prices

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> > Well, at least now I know who harvested my email address from the list... > no, not really > > > (I started getting massive amounts of spam a couple weeks after my first > > post here...) > I would wager my next paycheck that that is pure co-incidence > > Jay West Most likely a coincidence. This is a private list, after all. Did anybody submit this post to SpamCop? Glen 0/0

24 years, 1 month

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Big Items today at Auction

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Well I went and purchased a BIG International school bus today at a auction and plan on taking out the seats to haul all the items I still have up North in storage back here to Texas. It's a 1986 so it meets the 10 year rule. :-) Also picked up several needed Mac's for the collection a Workgroup 60, a DOS 6100, and about 10 others. Almost everyone there gave me their Mac stuff off their pallets (free). I had to leave a lot of stuff there as I filled half the bus and my poor van. After I get everything unloaded on Sunday I will put up a better listing. The best item I got was a Unisys rack system and two big high impact printers for it. On the front cover it says A Series Processor ? With a 3.5 FD (1.44), 150MB tape drive, CD-Rom drive (caddy type), I/O Channels unit, APC power unit, 520MB scsi hard drive, and several other items I have not figured out yet. Looking at some of the doc's that were inside the unit it has U6000/35 system board with 32 MB of memory on it. I also got the Unisys terminal with it (it powers up fine) model DS-1740 (mfg Nov 1990). Two Unisys keyboards (one cable) came with it also models T27-K5. More later, if anyone knows more about this box email please.

24 years, 1 month

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Fresh Email Lists at Unbelievable Prices

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Tothwolf <tothwolf(a)concentric.net> > I've had the same address for at least 4 years, with maybe 3 spams the > entire time up till now (those spammers paid dearly for it too...) How do you deal with spammers? Got any suggestions for dealing with probes? I am probed about every 12 minutes I'm online. Glen 0/0

24 years, 1 month

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IBM Board and IBM PC/AT disks for shipping & handling

by vaxman＠earthlink.net

I have a number of original 5.25" disks I want gone. $5 plus shipping for some or all. Unknown condition, but I was able to dump the ones I tried in unix (to see if they were bulk erased, didn't save the dumps). IBM - Diagnostics for the IBM Personal Computer AT (v1.00) Lotus - 123 System Disk (relase 2) IBM - DOS V3.00 IBM - DOS V3.00 Supplemental Programs MS - Microsoft Word program disks (1-4) (V3?) MS - Learning Microsoft Word (192K memory, Dos 2.0 or higher, one double sided disk drive, microsoft mouse :) (V3?) MS - Learning Microsoft Word Keyboard version (V3?) MS - Microsoft Word program disks (1-3) (V2?) MS - Learning Microsoft Word (V2?) MS - Microsoft Word Program Disk Backup Copy (real MS disk) (V2?) MS - Microsoft Macro Assembler (V4?) IBM - Pascal Compiler V2.00 (PAS-1, PAS-2, LIBRARY) 3Com - EtherSeries User Software for IBM PC Version 2.4 Lots of copies of Gold Hill Computers 'Golden Common Lisp' (V1 & V2) maybe 4 V2, 12 V1, and 5 unopened disk packages (unknown version) plus one shrink wrap about 3/16" thick of documentation Also, one 8bit full length ISA ethernet board. Unknown mfg, PN NI-5010-02. Clint

24 years, 1 month

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Yah!

by foo＠siconic.com

Well, I'm finally caught up with CC again. One thing I've been able to confirm after deleting through hundreds of messages is that you guys talk about a lot of irrelevant stuff. And Dick can be a pain in the ass. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

24 years, 1 month

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APPLEVISION Monitor

by mythtech＠mac.com

> Are people really willing to pay $100 to >repair something they could easily replace for $10 if they were to look? Yes... because most people aren't willing to look, nor do they have any idea what they are looking for. Most people will take what is put in front of them, and if you tell them it is what they need, and it is the best option, they will believe you. This is why Windows has such a large marketshare. People don't know there are other options, nor for the most part, do they care. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

24 years, 1 month

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Fresh Email Lists at Unbelievable Prices

by tedharris＠datasurplus.com

An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020505/bab0c709/at…

24 years, 1 month

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MicroVAX 3 W/SCSI Available

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

CC to CLASSICCMP and port-vax(a)netbsd.org, -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- SHIPPING NOT AVAILABLE FOR THIS ITEM -- LOCAL PICKUP ONLY! Hi, gang, I have for sale, for LOCAL PICKUP ONLY (Shipping is NOT AVAILABLE due to size and weight) in the Kent, WA area (southeast of Seattle), a MicroVAX 3 (KA650 CPU) system in the 'End table' cabinet (BA123). It was, as of seven months or so ago, fully functional on an older version of NetBSD (1.4, I think). It has been in protected storage since that time, and includes the following components: KA650 CPU 32MB RAM DELQA Ethernet Sigma RQD11S Dual-Function SCSI disk/tape drive adapter DHV11 eight-port serial MUX THREE 760MB Micropolis SCSI drives (two active/installed, one loose in its bag as a spare). The only thing you might need to replace is the memory battery. I will include as much in the way of hardware manuals as I can find (definitely the Sigma card's manual), and I'll also throw in a spare DHV11 and a couple of other boards (pretty sure I've got a Pertec tape controller I can get rid of). Asking: $125.00 or best offer for the whole package. Again -- NO SHIPPING AVAILABLE. Sorry, but it's just too big and bulky, and I will not break up a working system. NO DEALERS! I want this system to go to a good home with a "classic" computer collector, not see it scrapped out. Thanks for reading. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk)

24 years, 1 month

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IBM Board and IBM PC/AT disks for shipping & handling

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" <vaxman(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > Also, one 8bit full length ISA ethernet board. Unknown mfg, PN > NI-5010-02. The name "Interlan" comes to mind. -Frank McConnell

24 years, 1 month

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Documation M200/DEC CR11 card reader manual/info needed

by vcf＠siconic.com

I'm trying to interface a DEC CR11 (a.k.a. Documation M200) card reader to an Apple ][. I need the pinouts of the card reader interface. Does anyone have this information? Is the service manual available online (in some nook I haven't looked into yet)? Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

24 years, 1 month

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Micro$oft Biz'droid Lusers (was: OT email response format)

by csmith＠amdocs.com

> -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com] Knowing this it probably more rhetorical: > I haven't looked at the insides of the COCO2 I've got sitting > here, but I > don't see any place for a FDD or a HDD. Are there serial Yep, that's a problem. Mine had a Floppy controller that plugged into the cartridge slot. The tape setup wasn't bad either, for the time. > ports anywhere that Yeah, I'm certain there was a serial port, but I can't tell you about it. It's been a while. > I can use? How much R/W memory does it have? How do you R/W memory? It has up to 64k of RAM if that's what you mean. If it were a CoCo 3, it would have up to 512. > expand it to do > something useful? It's not bad with _only_ the computer, and a disk setup. > ... see what I mean? You have to do so much to the thing > that RS sells you > that it takes up a whole tabletop just to get to what's in > the PC's box, and You didn't mention that the PSUs were external on many peripherals too ;) > if you compare the price of a typical PC Clone available the > same year the > COCO2 was offered, how do they compare in price, avaialble > software base, etc? There's lots of software for CoCo, but I don't have numbers. > With the COCO, you're better off starting from a wirewrap > panel and a bucket I think that may be an exaggeration. :) > of parts, since the video on the COCO is not "up to snuff," > i.e. 80x24 > characters-capable. It uses that ridiculous 6847, IIRC, and Actually, there are applications that do 80x24 in some high-res video mode, for word processing and the like. I ran at least one on my CoCo1 with 64k of RAM. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); '

24 years, 1 month

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Televideo Systems

by pat＠purdueriots.com

Just pinging out there... I was wondering if anyone had a Televideo TS 806 or TS 816 they would be willing to give to a 'good home'. I have a bit of an attachment/longing for one, it was that computer at my Dad's office (he's an Optometrist) that I never got to play with until it broke and (since I was rather young at the time) I took it apart. The pieces have since been tossed by my parents in the interest of 'cleaning up'. I'm just curious if there's any still out there right now - I'd be interested in just seeing pictures even... a nonworking or working system would be pretty cool. -- Pat

24 years, 1 month

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Pricing info needed

by francois＠auradon.com

Hi all, I'm looking at selling my IBM 5110 with the 8" disk drive and printer most of the documentation and a box of floppies. What should be the asking price? Anyone interested? Unit is in Twin cities Minnesota. THanks Francois

24 years, 1 month

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So-Called Real Programmers and FORTRAN

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> > When you opened the box with your COCO, what useful work would it do with the > > $399 you had just spent? Could you write a letter? Could you write and > > compile a Fortran program? > > A REAL programmer can write a FORTRAN program in ANY language. > There was a fairly good (even though Microsoft) BASIC interpreter in ROM. > A REAL programmer could write a FORTRAN program with it. Harrumph! My Data Structures prof lamented the fact (by his observation) that most people write Pascal in its FORTRAN subset... My first computer language was ALFIE, Algebraic Language For Interactive Environments on the CDC 6500 at Purdue. It was a superset of BASIC that most notably inluded FORTRAN FORMATted I/O (READ & WRITE when issued with a line number reference were FORTRAN style, the line number cntaining a FORMAT statement). Good Morning! <ding><ding> This is ALFIE! <ding><ding> <ding> Teletype ASR33 bell. -dq

24 years, 1 month

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Anyone need 2112 RAMs

by mhstein＠canada.com

>From: Arlen Michaels <arlen.michaels(a)sympatico.ca> >Subject: Re: Anyone need 2112 RAMs <snip> > 5 for a dime? Why didn't they just hand them out for free to anyone who >wanted them? Or bag them as kitty litter? ------------ Well, they'd mispriced them, and they even insisted on issuing one of their large expensive invoices; no tax either :) So, does anyone know if these chips fit anything? Murphy dictates that as soon as they disappear, someone will need some. And Arlen: What happened to you last November? I thought you were going to take a Cromemco or two off my hands? Looks like a new address there, talk to me off-list if ya like. mike

24 years, 1 month

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Shameless Ad: LSI-11 Service Manuals up for auction

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Still cleaning up, still finding things. I just put a three-volume set of DEC service manuals up for auction for the LSI-11 series. Here's the link if anyone's interested. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2022286247 Opening bid is $20 for the set. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Taki Kogoma, aka Gym Z. Quirk)

24 years, 1 month

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Documation M200/DEC CR11 card reader manual/info needed

by Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com

>I'm trying to interface a DEC CR11 (a.k.a. Documation M200) card reader to >an Apple ][. > >I need the pinouts of the card reader interface. Does anyone have this >information? Is the service manual available online (in some nook I >haven't looked into yet)? You seem to have the tech manual now. The engineering drawings are available at: http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/dec/pdp11/ Antonio

24 years, 1 month

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Documation M200/DEC CR11 card reader manual/info needed

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

V.C.F. wrote... -------------------------------------- I'm trying to interface a DEC CR11 (a.k.a. Documation M200) card reader to an Apple ][. I need the pinouts of the card reader interface. Does anyone have this information? Is the service manual available online (in some nook I haven't looked into yet)? -------------------------------------- Dang! Where was that link (from a following message) a couple of years ago when I was trying to do something similar??? <G> Using an Altair for a card reader controller to connect to a PC... <snicker> One thing to watch out for that bit me REAL hard when doing this, is that the data lines on the connector are the raw, unlatched outputs from the phototransistors, and the mechanically generated 'column strobe' signal has a significant amount of slop/jiggle/window (pick your favourite) in it and needs some 'processing' in order to insure valid data. I ended up recreating a circuit that I found detailed in the DEC CR11 Interface Board docs. It used a couple of monostables to delay the 'column strobe' signal by an amount, and then stretch the signal for reliable triggering. (or was it the other way 'round? - stretch then delay?) Anyway... without the 'processing' of the strobe signal the data was completely unreliable. To the point of appearing totally random! Hopefully someone has this doc at hand (or it is covered in the reader hardware manual) for reference. Mine is still buried somewhere in the chaos! Good luck! -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw

24 years, 1 month

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APPLEVISION Monitor

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

> From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> > With the pace at which obsolescence has been creeping up on > everybody, I'd say upgradeability is of no consequence at all any more. A lot of my customers can afford $100 for an upgrade or repair but can't afford the $300 you quote below for a basic tower, so for them upgradeability is relevant. > Systems bought three years ago don't use the same drives I haven't seen any real change in fdds or CD-ROM drive in the last three years. Besides capacity, what's different about today's hard drives? > NEW 1 GHz monitorless systems > with 15 GB HDD's (WAY too small to be of interest to anyone nowadays) and a > DVD + FDD, a modest (64MB ??) of RAM, and the usual stuff including mouse and > keyboard, sporting a 4MB on-board video expandable to 16 MB, on-board sound, > and 4 USB ports along with a V.92 modem and all the other usual bells and > whistles are advertised on the local late-night TV for under $300. At prices > like that one can't afford to upgrade. By the time the warranty runs out, > they'll be obsolete again. Obsolete? Glen 0/0

24 years, 1 month

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Found Half a apf MP1000

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

While cleaning at the warehouse today I found the top half of a apf MP1000 console with the two controllers attached. Now I have to hope somewhere in this place I have the bottom? Awhile back I picked up 4 cartridges for this thing and at this rate I should have a complete working unit by August. :-)

24 years, 1 month

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Mentec hobbyist licenses?

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

Anybody know recent news about the status of Mentec releasing their hobbyist license / cd-rom program? Last I heard from them was February, and they havent responded yet to mail I sent a few days ago. Here's what they responded with in February: > Dear Bill, > > The quick answer is yes we are. We are at present proposing to release a > Hobbyists License Agreement with CD-ROM containing the software for the > various PDP-11 Operating Systems. Our Website is been updated, the new > website will have a Hobbyist page given all the relevant information on > the Software, CD's,Licenses, and how to obtain them. There will be a total > of 3 CD-ROM's covering all the Operating System available. > > If you have any please do not hesitate to contact. > > Careena.Fitzpatrick(a)mentec.com > or 603 883 7711 Bill -- Bill Bradford | "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. mrbill(a)mrbill.net | Hate leads to using Windows for mission-critical Austin, TX | applications." -- What Yoda *meant* to say

24 years, 1 month

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"Televideo Systems"

by dquebbeman＠acm.org

> Just pinging out there... I was wondering if anyone had a Televideo TS 806 > or TS 816 they would be willing to give to a 'good home'. I have a bit of > an attachment/longing for one, it was that computer at my Dad's office > (he's an Optometrist) that I never got to play with until it broke and > (since I was rather young at the time) I took it apart. The pieces have > since been tossed by my parents in the interest of 'cleaning up'. > > I'm just curious if there's any still out there right now - I'd be > interested in just seeing pictures even... a nonworking or working system > would be pretty cool. Wasn't the 816 the 8086/8088 version? The TS-803 had a Z-80. We had 25 of the TS-803 at RETS, and I've been haggling for the only one I know is left from the guy who has it, so far, to no avail. I have manuals and lots of software for it, including TELE-WRITE and TELE-DRAW. We had a MouseSystems optical mouse on ours that worked with TELE-DRAW. These were nice CP/M machines. I was really comfortable using them, except the keyboards were *very* springy. -dq

24 years, 1 month

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