To all classic collectors out there:
I have 2 pieces of
Microsystems International MF8008
which I want to sell.
My location is Germany.
Any serious offers by e-mail are welcome.
Best regards,
Michael
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After the LUG meeting this evening at a Pub, I learned about a Phillips
beige box with a pair of 8" floppies being used as a coffee table.
Any guesses as to what it could be?
I'm thinking of trading a AS400 9404, or IBM PC 500 server to take over
as a coffee table.
I dropped Leo a line and he replied - he's in Montreal. Somebody
oughta grab 'em....
Not associated, reply directly, blah blah blah.
Doc
From: Leo <flintsoft(a)NOSPAMvideotron.ca>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11
Subject: PDP 11s available
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 20:31:37 -0500
I just picked up a couple of these old machines as scrap... not
exactly sure of the model.
They have 2, 5" floppys in front, and a small panel with 4 push
switches, and a couple of other switches. They fit a 19" rack and run
on 120v. They have a ton of db25, rs232 ports on the back.
They were running a custom C program and a debugger for a company,
along with the standard operating system. They had at least 3
terminals and 2 printers and a bunch of machine processes running
electrical devices. Something like 18 devices on rs232. One machine
was a hot standby.
I know they were running with LA120 printers and a few screens I
forget the number...191 maybe??, none of which is available... They
were operating last I know, but were simply turned off and replaced.
(by a crappy 386PC network!!) They have been sitting in a warehouse
for the last 8 years, and were thrown out to make room.
They are tremendously dirty!! Looks like parts from a coal mine!! And
they weigh a ton!!
If I had the monitor/keyboard I'd run them for fun, but I don't have
the time to persue another hobby!! And I don't know if the dirt has
ruined the floppys.
Anyone have any interest in this stuff? Also a box of junked 120
printer parts?
Thanks
Hi Pat,
I'm assuming that your laser is helium-neon laser. If so, then if it's 23 years old it almost certainly has what they refer to as a soft seal between the electrodes and glass tube. The problem with the soft sealed lasers is that the helium atoms are small enough that they slowly leak out of the seal. When they do, the mixture ratio changes and the ignition and operating voltage goes up until the laser will no longer operates. That's what it sounds like is happening with your laser. Your's sounds like it's it border line in that the PSU firing voltage can make it fire but the operating voltage isn't high enough to keep it operating.
Further you can't just use a resistor as a dummy load. The laser tube is similar to neon and floresent lights in that it has a negative resistance. That is it has a certain amount of resistance until it fires and then the resistance decreases dramaticly. You have to use a ballast with such devices or else the current will increase drasticly and almost instantly burn out the device. The ignition voltage will be on the order of 20,000 volts but the operating voltage will be roughly 12,000 to 14,000 volts.
Be careful using a scope around these things. It probably isn't made to handle nearly the kind of voltages involved in the laser. You need a good high voltage probe for checking these things. You can use one made for TV repair. They're fairly easy to find and are reasonably priced.
If you send me the brand and model tube I may be able to tell you if it's a soft sealed tube and other details.
Joe
At 04:38 PM 10/30/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I know this is a bit OT, becuase it's not really computer related, but the
>hardware is at least 23 years old, so that's my excuse for posting to the
>list...
>
>I've got a 35mW HeNe Laser + Power supply that I picked up today for next
>to nothing. It seems to be having some problems - the laser (somtimes)
>blinks a few times when I first turn it on, and then stops. From the
>sound of the power supply it's either a loose connection (which I doubt
>after opening it up and taking a good look around) or there's a problem
>with the power supply.
>
>Now, I've never really worked on a HV power supply before, and I'm trying
>to be careful when I play with things. First off, does anyone have a
>general idea of what sized dummy load ("resisitor") I should try haning
>off of the HV output to properly load it? I noticed that the laser tube
>has 3x27kohm resistors in series, would a couple watt approx 81kohm
>resistor be a good idea?
>
>Also, does anyone have an idea for a failure mode to look for? I've got
>an O'scope, dmm, and various other tools at my disposal, but no
>'authentic' HV test/mesurement gear.
>
>I'm just looking for general guidelines.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Pat
>--
>"The Microsoft/IBM FORTRAN was adequate for teaching FORTRAN 77. But the
>performance was AMAZING! It could actually take longer to run a benchmark
>like sieve of Erastothanes with compiled FORTRAN than with interpreted
>BASIC."
> -- Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)
>http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif
>
>
>
>The idea behind this scam is to file suites they fully know they would
>loose in court. A messy legal tactic, but
>hardly a problem with the U.S. I.P. laws (which are far better than most
>others).
You forgot the most important detail. You file suits you know you will
loose... but only while offering a settlement that is profitable for you,
and cheap enough that it is cheaper for the other person to settle, then
to defend the BS lawsuit.
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
Does someone have the description of what the status codes in the eight LEDs mean ? I know there is a 4000 VLC user guide on-line but that isn't detailed. I also know that a working VAXstation has none of these lights on after power-up completes.
Ethan Dicks wrote:
>My one and only experierience with analog computing was a
dedicated
>device (no patch panel) that calculated energy reserves for the
>planet. It had an LED counter for the year and numerous dials
for
>amount of driving, heating, electricity usage, etc. Physically,
>it was about 3" thick and several feet square. I remember
trying
>out a variety of simulations on it when it was at the local
science
>museum, COSI, some summer between 1976 and 1980.
I remember this as one of those fuzzy childhood memories. In
fact, I was never sure that it actually existed until reading
this message. I know I only had a few minutes to play with it,
sometime in the 70's. I remember asking "what do you do when the
energy runs out?" :) I thought it might have been developed in
the aftermath of the "energy crisis" in 1973.
I can picture the wooden frame, and you could see some of the
circuitry through the front I think...
I hope someone finds a picture of that thingy.
-Frank
>From: "Rich Beaudry" <r_beaudry(a)hotmail.com>
>To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
>Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 19:18:02 +0000
>
>The AIM-65 has been tested.
I want the AIM-65. I started in computers around 1980 with a KIM.
I do not need it forever; just a month or so to become familiar
with operating it. I can then pass it on to someone else.
If I do get it then I will try to repair it.
--
Paul R. Santa-Maria
Monroe, Michigan 48161
Sellam Ismail wrote:
>The locations I am considering for VCF East 2.0 are Providence, RI, Boston
>proper, or New York City. Basically, somewhere with a large >population
>center, that is central to a greater population center, and >where a lot of
>vintage computer enthusiasts would easily find their >way to.
Any of the above would suit me. I would bring Big Iron.
I would sign up for yer list, but vintage.org seems to have gone AWOL for
now...
Mike
http://www.corestore.org
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Anyone have a extra or unwanted AC adapter for a Gateway 4 Handbook
(486sx-25)? I found this little jewel down at the warehouse yesterday
(forgot I had it) and would like test it out but the adapter port is a
really strange looking one. I do not have anything to hook up to it and the
battery is long dead.
As of lastnight:
-Received key for front panel keyswitch in the mail
-PSU status lights (o) = lit, ( ) = not lit
( ) Power OK
( ) Over Voltage
(o) Over Current
(o) +2.5V Fail
( ) +5V Fail
(o) Reg Fail
( ) Over Temp
(o) Power
John Perkins Willis
Software Engineer/Database Architect
Ariel Technologies
(505) 524-6860
jwillis(a)arielusa.com
Most of my DEC equipment has a serial number beginning
GA or AY. I hope that I am correct in assuming that this
means the equipment was built in Ayr (Scotland) or in
Galway (Ireland). However, I have a relatively early MicroVAX-II
which started life in the third quarter
of 1985. As I have a lot of documentary evidence about
this computer, I'm writing it's biography but I don't know
where it was "born". Its serial number starts with BT. I've googled
about but can't find the information - anyone know?
Doug.
In going thru the old FIDO RB archive I found a msg from a BBS sysop
saying he had received the entire DECUS librairie on MAG tape. Does
anyone on the list have this or is it available somewhere ?
Lawrence
lgwalker(a)mts.net
bigwalk_ca(a)yahoo.com
I've got a brand new AT&T 458 Daisy Wheel printer, that doesn't have a daisy
wheel. A quick glance at Google doesn't turn up anyone who sells apropos
wheels. There is a theory that the 458 is a rebadged Qume. Does anyone
know where to get 458 wheels, or what would be an equivalent printer that I
could find wheels for?
Ken
In going thru an old FIDO DEC Rainbow archive I ran across this post. It
seems all the present fuss about the wonders of mobile computing is not
so new.
Lawrence
.........................................................................................................
Date: 12-12-89 (09:11)
To: FRANK MALLORY
Subject: RE: CELLULAR CONNECTION
From: RON KRITZMAN
Part of the problem with cellular modem connection is
that most telephone modems aren't particularly noise
resistant. The modems ($$$$$$$) made for cellular
incluse their own error correction, but most are
proprietary.
There is a company in Skokie, IL called "Tellular"
which makes a standard RJ-11 interface for cellular
phones. Basicly it plugs in in place of the handset
and gives you a standard modular jack. Plug a phone in
there and pick it up... you hear dial tone. Dial, and
it decodes the touch tones and makes them into what the
cellular unit wants to see. Instant fake "real"
phone. Great for stuff like portable pay phones, etc.
(No, I don't work for them.) As to the portable
(hand held) with an "RJ" its proably a ways off. Most
cellular portables are already "ten lbs. of s*** it a 5
lb. bag" as it is.
---
* Origin: Chicago's BIT WIZ Opus HST (AlterNet 445/689)
(Opus 1:115/689)
lgwalker(a)mts.net
bigwalk_ca(a)yahoo.com
While digging around for some manuals I need I came across these two
calculators:
HP 28S Advanced Scientific Calculator not tested yet.
Casio fx-7700GB Power Graphic with Program-Link. It's missing slide-on cover
and needs to be tested.
It would help if www.vintage.org would respond... I've not been
able to connect for quite some time... I've tried each time I've
seen your message and I get nothing...
Megan
If you can't find anything else, the NatInst doc on the NAT9914 might be
helpful: http://www.ni.com/pdf/manuals/320775.pdf
The NatInst website says the NAT9914 is 100% register and pin compatible
with the TMS9914A in its default power up 9914 mode, so there should be some
info in the NAT9914 doc that also applies to the TMS9914A.
>From: "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwightk.elvey(a)amd.com>
>Reply-To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
>To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
>Subject: Looking for specs and or app notes
>Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:08:51 -0800 (PST)
>
>Hi
> I'm looking for data sheets or app notes for
>the TMS9914 GPIB Controller? If anyone has
>any of this stuff, let me know?
>Thanks
>Dwight
_________________________________________________________________
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> Hmm, I thought that the HDs in the desktop vax's were SCSI,
> but RF would be DSSI. RZ would be scsi, right?
410x's and 410xA's can do both SCSI (RZ) and DSSI (RF), yes.
--f
> Hmm, I thought that the HDs in the desktop vax's were SCSI, but RF would
> be DSSI. RZ would be scsi, right?
Yes. RZ is SCSI, RF is DSSI.
--
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
Hi,
Cleaning my vt-240, I noticed that there is an "expansion" connector
inside, with enough space for a pretty big board.
Anybody out there has an idea what it was for ?
Documentation ?
cheers
OK I know it's too damned recent to be 'classic' but no bugger anywhere else
seems to have any idea about it...
I have recently got hold of an ICL Sparc Teamserver aka The Purple Peril
( http://www.corestore.org/ts.jpg )
If anyone has ever run one of these, or has a clue how the console is
supposed to work, please contact me off-list... it appears to boot but is
giving me all kinds of grief...
Thanks
Mike
http://www.corestore.org
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John Honniball wrote:
>Sellam Ismail wrote:
> > On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote:
> > > That's never likely to happen. Heck, I didn't even get to
>VCF-Europe...
> >
> > The question is: would you come to VCF UK?
>
>Well, I definately would come to a VCF in the UK! Anybody else?
Although I live in the USA these days, I might just be prepared to come back
and drag out some of the Corestore machines for such an event, they're
mostly in storage in the UK still... pdp-15 anybody?
Mike
http://www.corestore.org
_________________________________________________________________
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John Honniball wrote:
>Sellam Ismail wrote:
> > On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Tony Duell wrote:
> > > That's never likely to happen. Heck, I didn't even get to
>VCF-Europe...
> >
> > The question is: would you come to VCF UK?
>
>Well, I definately would come to a VCF in the UK! Anybody else?
Although I live in the USA these days, I might just be prepared to come back
and drag out some of the Corestore machines for such an event, they're
mostly in storage in the UK still... pdp-15 anybody?
Mike
http://www.corestore.org
_________________________________________________________________
Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN.
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp
I have a ratty old ASR32 Baudot Telex machine (with rotary dial - too
quaint) that I would like to move out. It needs a bunch of TLC... and
someone I know wants the copyholder and pedestal, so those are spoken for.
Otherwise I'm going to part it out and junk the carcass.
I would sorta like to get my initial investment of $25 back, but the
bottom line is it's free for price of pack/ship from zip 95971 in NE Ca.
OR - you pick up, and I help load it in/on your vehicle - no charge.
Speak now or the machine dies....
Cheers
John
Ethan Dicks reminisced:
>My one and only experierience with analog computing was a dedicated
>device (no patch panel) that calculated energy reserves for the
>planet. It had an LED counter for the year and numerous dials for
>amount of driving, heating, electricity usage, etc. Physically,
I remember this! Someone brought it to our high school, circa 1979 or 1980.
It was designed to crater the planet within a limited time span, assuming
limited resources of fossil fuels would eventually expire. (Well, it had to
end eventually...). Everyone in the class played with it for a while, with
5 input consoles active at a time (so one sector might be using fossil
fuels at a horrendous rate while another was relying on nuclear...). Then
me and 4 of my friends took over at the end of the class (fortunately also
the end of the day), and coordinated our actions completely. We all slammed
tech research to the max immediately, max'd out solar, and started
carefully playing nuclear to maintain the environment at a bad but not
disastrous level while we minimized the use of fossil fuels. We lasted
about 5 times longer than anyone else had.
Yeah, if you find a url, post it! I'd like to see that booger again.
- Mark
>Chris ---
> You're not thinking of the LC 550, like what you gave me, are you? Or
>can those use the Performa 550 CD? If so, I could use a CD mailed to me
>also...
Ok, actually yes, I was thinking of the LC 550, but they are the same
machine, minus the fact that the LC didn't come bundled with the software.
However, since my goal is to save myself some time and effort in blanking
the LC 550's and reinstalling an OS and an early version of ClarisWorks,
the Performa restore CD is exactly what I needed to make my life easy.
I got my CD in the mail yesterday. I'll run a dupe for you and mail it up
to yo. I would stick it with the stack of stuff I have for you, but we
both know that means you'll never actually GET the thing... at least not
in this lifetime. :-)
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
I managed to pick up a COMDYNA GP-6 analog computer a couple days ago out
at University Salvage. I initially bought it for its nixie tubes, not
knowing what it was, and then was a bit dissatisfied with the fact that
they were not in great shape.
After taking a few seconds to look at it and try to determine what is was
with all the banana jacks on the front, I thought "Hmm, it adds and
multiplies... google says 'Analog computer'... Wahooo!!"
Does anyone know very much about these? I managed to find this webpage
fairly quickly using google:
http://www.comdyna.com/gp6intro.htm
What kind of applications did they have, etc?
Any info you guys have would be great.
Pat
--
Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS
Information Technology at Purdue
Research Computing and Storage
http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.eduhttp://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif
Hey all,
Is anyone familiar with the TDSystems "viking" series of UNIBUS
SCSI controllers? I have a VIK-1055, or so it seems, and could
use some info on it :)
Cheers,
Fred
> I have been looking at MS Visual Studio for some time and
> NOT buying mainly because it seems like there is no choice
> in the matter. Where are the other good prog. environments?
> The ad for MS VStudio shows a guy with serious posture
> problems (get it? No backbone.) and I'm not too ready for
> that experience. Sun/Solaris/Intel has been phased out.
> Phillippe is sleeping with the starfishes.
> I guess that leaves only something for Linux.
Well... its for the Mac, but can do Win32 as well... I use REALbasic.
Think of it as a Mac version of MS Visual Basic, without the MS
attachments.
You write everything on the Mac, and it will compile for Mac PPC (Classic
and Carbon), and Win32. (The v5 due out some time next year will have a
Windows IDE so you can write on Win and compile for all 3 like you can
currently do on the Mac). They claim future versions will be able to
compile for Linux and PalmOS as well.
All in all, it isn't a bad getup.
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
>I have a MAC Performa 550 and a damaged Restore CD.
>
>I can borrow one from a friend.
Sorry, I should have put this with my other response, but I screwed up.
If you can make a disc image file of the CD, and you have a decent
internet connection, I would love a copy of that CD as well (I can give
you an FTP address you can send it to). If you can't send it to me that
way, I'd be willing to give you postage, and a few dollars to cover the
effort for you to dupe a copy for me and mail it to me.
I have 4 or 5 of the Performa 550 in my garage, and I would love to have
a copy of the restore CD for it.
let me know... thanks
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
But does the base install for HP-UX require any codewords? And how is it for
DAT versions? Enquiring minds want to know.
Will J
_________________________________________________________________
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I managed to get a hold of a couple more of the UYK-20 computers. Several people on this list have asked for one, unfortunately I have more requests than computers. Does anyone have a suggestion about how to decide who gets one and who doesn't? Or any suggestions about shipping? These are roughly 24" cube and weigh about 160 pounds. I MAY be able to use a friends warehouse and strap them down to a pallet and wrap them with stretch wrap. I don't have time/material/tools to make crates for them but from the looks of them, they look like they'll survive anything. They're located near Orlando Florida.
Joe
Continuing my perusal of the FIDO archive I found a reference to a MSDOS
board supplied for the DecMate II by DEC " xpu board (pc27x-ah) with 256k
for _only_$1285.00 " even tho the DecMate had been discontinued. At the
same time "The PC27XAH board was advertised in Newman's
October catalog for $195." Supports my contention that most of
the companies beloved by us enthusiasts were rapacious. Poor Bill Gates
and other companies being destroyed by home users piracy. Pfaw !!
Lawrence
lgwalker(a)mts.net
bigwalk_ca(a)yahoo.com
Continuing my facinating(to me) perusal of the FIDO archive some stats:
Date: 12-24-89
To: ALL
Subject: DEC ECHO STATS
From: GEORGE DAHLCO, SYSOP 102/
Here's a recent report from Southern California:
QMStat EchoMail traffic report for 1:102/138,
12/24/1989 21:30:45
DEC ECHO CONFERENCES for Period: 12/01/1989 to
12/24/1989
AREA NAME TOTAL AVERAGE DUPES MAX/DAY
MIN/DAY
------------------ ----- ----- ----- ----- --
VAX 161 7 0 22
1
RAINBOW 190 8 0 29
5
PDP-11 22 0 0 6
1
Happy New Year,
George, 102/138-
--- msged 1.999
* Origin: Western Region VAX EC, RAINBOW/PDP-11 Echo
Hub (1:102/138.1)
------------------------------
My,times do change.
Lawrence
lgwalker(a)mts.net
bigwalk_ca(a)yahoo.com
>Are they ALL DX2-50's? I'm looking for a DX-50.
I'll double check, but yeah, I am pretty sure these 4 are DX2-50.
I also have a small stack of 486 CPUs (cpu chip only), and there might be
a regular DX in there (I know there are some SX and DX2's... as well as a
few that the chip is glued to the heatsink, so I'm not sure what they are)
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
>From: "Brian Chase" <vaxzilla(a)jarai.org>
>
>Someone passed this along to me today. It's a current news item, but I
>though it at least tangentially relevant to classiccmp folks. You'll
>get a bang out of this one--quite literally:
>
>-> In September 2002, reports started to surface in the United States
>-> among brand name computer manufacturers that there were problems
>-> with low-ESR aluminum capacitors produced in Taiwan. Apparently, a
>-> poor-quality, water-based electrolyte had been supplied to multiple
>-> manufacturers of low-ESR aluminum electrolytic capacitors in
>-> Taiwan. Our intelligence sources in Taiwan later confirmed that as
>-> many as eleven manufacturers of low-ESR aluminum capacitors in
>-> Taiwan might have been exposed to the poor electrolyte. The
>-> electrolyte, which is a locally produced knock-off of the Japanese
>-> P-50 type water-based system, was produced without the proper
>-> additives required to stave off excess hydrogen gassing. Consequently,
>-> aluminum capacitors produced with the P-50 knock-off tend to fail
>-> catastrophically, by blowing open the rubber seal and leaking liquid
>-> electrolyte on the printed circuit board. These failures reportedly
>-> occur at half the rated lifetime of the components.
>
>http://www.ttiinc.com/MarketEye/zogbi_on_passives_20021014.asp
>
>ObClassicCmp: What are the expected lifespans of various capacitor
>types? I don't have any truly ancient systems, but some of them are
>coming up on the 20 yr mark. When should I look into replacing the
>old caps?
>
>-brian.
>
>
Hi Brian
Not counting defective caps, they can last a long time.
I have an old radio that the electrolytics are still in reasonable
condition and the radio was made in the 50's. I have others
that are only 20 years old and have failed. Switchers put a
higher load on the filter capacitors because of their instantaneous
and rapid demands. These are the most likely applications for
low ESR's. One should check the burst seal and make sure it hasn't
already blown or is bulging.
Electrolytics that have been sitting for several years should
be brought up slowly to reform the surfaces. The best way to do
this is to disconnect and put on a power supply with a high value
current limiting resistor. Many large computer grade capacitors
may have normal leakage in the ma range so choose the resistor
accordingly. Small capacitors in the tens of uF should have
microampere leakage.
Dwight
Hi Pat
The link to the lab stuff was old so I did a little looking
around and found:
http://routh.ee.adfa.edu.au/%7Eirp/Teaching/Control_Theory_2/Labs.html
It shows some uses of the GP-6 for analyzing control
systems.
Dwight
>From: "Patrick Finnegan" <pat(a)purdueriots.com>
>
>On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Doug Coward wrote:
>
>> You wrote:
>> > One last thing - does anyone have an idea of what the "SW" and "OP" jacks
>> > at the bottom of the front panel are,
>>
>> Here is a quotes from a GP-10 brochure:
>> "The OP termination is the system's mode control bus.
>> For centralized integrator mode operation, the SW
>> switch control is patched to the OP bus."
>>
>> My take on this is that if you are not controlling
>> the operation mode from a digital computer or other
>> external device, then you need to jumper OP to SW
>> for each integrator in order to control the mode
>> from the front panel buttons.
>> IC = Initial Condition mode
>> HD = Hold mode
>> OP = Operate mode
>> RO = Repetitive Operation mode
>
>Ummm, I seem to have an older GP-6 that has no such front-panel switches.
>It just has the 'Y/POT Select', 'X Select' and 'Compute time' knobs on the
>front (along with the 8 coefficient pots). There's also four small
>potentiometers, with a slotted shaft (for using a tweaker screwdriver for
>adjustment) along the bottom of the front (on the banana jack half)
>which are unlabelled.... any ideas what they are for? They seem to be
>missing from the model pictured on COMDYNA's web site.
>
>> > and how to use the multipliers? I
>> > can't quite seem to get them to 'multiply'...
>
>I guess you can attribute my lack of understanding this part to my lack of
>usage of analog computers... sometimes engineers need to be a little more
>reasonable in their descriptions IMHO.
>
>> Here is a quotes from a MICROPATCH brochure:
>> "Two multiplier networks may be arranged as
>> multipliers, dividers, squarers, or square root
>> extractors of input variables. Two attenuator-switch
>> networks are needed to electronically program a
>> multiplier or divider. One output is patched to the
>> "X" terminal; the other is patched to the "Y" terminal.
>
>Ok, got that
>
>> When the network is patched as an input to an
>> operational amplifier that has a resistor as the
>> feedback, the amplifier's output is the product
>> of the input variables. When the network is
>
>Does 'the network' refer to the output of the multiplier ( the terminal
>not labeled 'x' or 'y')? If so, that's what I've been doing...
>
>> patched as the amplifier's feedback, the amplifier
>> output is the quotient of the two input variables."
>
>But I just used up the X and Y inputs, how am I supposed to use the
>multiplier as feedback for the op-amp?
>
>It'd be helpful if someone had an example schematic or block diagram of
>some sort...
>
>Pat
>--
>Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS
>Information Technology at Purdue
>Research Computing and Storage
>http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu
>
>http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif
>
>
>
>
Hi
My understanding of the multiply is that you
connect the gray to the input of one of the amps
that show a feedback resistor. The amp inputs are also
gray. You leave all the green leads open. If you
apply a small level to the x and y, the output of
that amp should be the multiply of the x and y.
You can use the pots in the center to create the
small levels used. Remember that there is also
a scale factor involved. K*X*Y= output. I don't
know what the K would be for this setup.
Dwight
>From: "Patrick Finnegan" <pat(a)purdueriots.com>
>
>On Mon, 4 Nov 2002, Doug Coward wrote:
>
>> You wrote:
>> > One last thing - does anyone have an idea of what the "SW" and "OP" jacks
>> > at the bottom of the front panel are,
>>
>> Here is a quotes from a GP-10 brochure:
>> "The OP termination is the system's mode control bus.
>> For centralized integrator mode operation, the SW
>> switch control is patched to the OP bus."
>>
>> My take on this is that if you are not controlling
>> the operation mode from a digital computer or other
>> external device, then you need to jumper OP to SW
>> for each integrator in order to control the mode
>> from the front panel buttons.
>> IC = Initial Condition mode
>> HD = Hold mode
>> OP = Operate mode
>> RO = Repetitive Operation mode
>
>Ummm, I seem to have an older GP-6 that has no such front-panel switches.
>It just has the 'Y/POT Select', 'X Select' and 'Compute time' knobs on the
>front (along with the 8 coefficient pots). There's also four small
>potentiometers, with a slotted shaft (for using a tweaker screwdriver for
>adjustment) along the bottom of the front (on the banana jack half)
>which are unlabelled.... any ideas what they are for? They seem to be
>missing from the model pictured on COMDYNA's web site.
>
>> > and how to use the multipliers? I
>> > can't quite seem to get them to 'multiply'...
>
>I guess you can attribute my lack of understanding this part to my lack of
>usage of analog computers... sometimes engineers need to be a little more
>reasonable in their descriptions IMHO.
>
>> Here is a quotes from a MICROPATCH brochure:
>> "Two multiplier networks may be arranged as
>> multipliers, dividers, squarers, or square root
>> extractors of input variables. Two attenuator-switch
>> networks are needed to electronically program a
>> multiplier or divider. One output is patched to the
>> "X" terminal; the other is patched to the "Y" terminal.
>
>Ok, got that
>
>> When the network is patched as an input to an
>> operational amplifier that has a resistor as the
>> feedback, the amplifier's output is the product
>> of the input variables. When the network is
>
>Does 'the network' refer to the output of the multiplier ( the terminal
>not labeled 'x' or 'y')? If so, that's what I've been doing...
>
>> patched as the amplifier's feedback, the amplifier
>> output is the quotient of the two input variables."
>
>But I just used up the X and Y inputs, how am I supposed to use the
>multiplier as feedback for the op-amp?
>
>It'd be helpful if someone had an example schematic or block diagram of
>some sort...
>
>Pat
>--
>Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS
>Information Technology at Purdue
>Research Computing and Storage
>http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu
>
>http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif
>
>
>
>
You wrote:
> One last thing - does anyone have an idea of what the "SW" and "OP" jacks
> at the bottom of the front panel are,
Here is a quotes from a GP-10 brochure:
"The OP termination is the system's mode control bus.
For centralized integrator mode operation, the SW
switch control is patched to the OP bus."
My take on this is that if you are not controlling
the operation mode from a digital computer or other
external device, then you need to jumper OP to SW
for each integrator in order to control the mode
>from the front panel buttons.
IC = Initial Condition mode
HD = Hold mode
OP = Operate mode
RO = Repetitive Operation mode
> and how to use the multipliers? I
> can't quite seem to get them to 'multiply'...
Here is a quotes from a MICROPATCH brochure:
"Two multiplier networks may be arranged as
multipliers, dividers, squarers, or square root
extractors of input variables. Two attenuator-switch
networks are needed to electronically program a
multiplier or divider. One output is patched to the
"X" terminal; the other is patched to the "Y" terminal.
When the network is patched as an input to an
operational amplifier that has a resistor as the
feedback, the amplifier's output is the product
of the input variables. When the network is
patched as the amplifier's feedback, the amplifier
output is the quotient of the two input variables."
--Doug
=========================================
Doug Coward
@ home in Poulsbo, WA
Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center
http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog
=========================================
I almost said "Exorbus, Multibus, Aim-65, Oh My!", but I figured most people
wouldn't get it :-D
To those three intrepid individuals who responded to my last "free stuff"
posting (Arcnet/Token Ring stuff), I haven't forgotten you! Give me another
day to sort it out...
OK, the usual rules, I'll decide semi-randomly who gets what in case
multiple people ask for the same thing. I'll take PRIVATE OFF-LIST emails
until the end of the week for those who want stuff. Shipping will be from
USA, ZIP code 01473. You pay shipping, and I'll take PayPal, Money Order,
or check ...
Some of this stuff was donated to me by other listmembers (most notably some
of the EXORbus stuff, I think from Mike D.??, and the AIM-65 was a trade w/
Rich Cini??). If you gave it to me, and want it back, you get top priority,
otherwise it goes to whoever else wants it...
The AIM-65 has been tested and works (with some restrictions described
below), but the Multibus and EXORbus stuff is completely untested ....
AIM-65
- The AIM comes with the external case (not sure if it is original or not),
and photocopies of the manuals. The printer is in bad shape, but I also
have a spare printer that you can swap out. The keyboard is missing a key
(between the "." and right shift), and is a bit flaky (double keypresses,
etc.). The ROM sockets are also corroded, and one is in need of
replacement. There is a full complement of 2114 RAM chips, and all ROM
sockets are full.
MULTIBUS
- Hybricon prototyping board
- Qty. 2 Prototek Wire-Wrapping boards
- Nat'l Semi. BLC-064 64K RAM board -- Missing some RAM chips -- Has 27 x
MM5290J chips
- Intersil MCB 512K Memory Board -- 88 x HM4864-2 chips
- Intel 215G Winchester Controller board -- Has PSBX218A and PSBX217C
daughterboards
EXORBUS
- 20-slot backplane and card cage
- Qty. 2 bus extender boards
- Smoke Signal Broadcasting DCB-4E (floppy Ctrlr? Has FD1791B chip)
- Motorola MEX6820-1 (Dual-PIA I/O board)
- GMS Single Board Computer GMS6506-01-c -- Has 6809 CPU, ports labeled
"I/O", "RS-232", "Printer", "IEEE-488". Also has TMS9914A chip
- Southern Company Services SCSEVDG183 -- Video board? Has CRT5027 and
CRT8002 chips
- Micro-Logus P-VDG SCSEVDG183 -- Similar to above board, but with CRT5037
and CRT8002 chips
- Qty. 2 CMS 9609 MPU Rev. A (6809 CPU 2716 ROMs)
- Qty. 2 Motorola Micro Module 1A CPU boards (6800 CPU, one has 2708 ROMs)
- Qty. 2 Chrislin Industries RAM board -- 32 x 4116 chips, RAM/ROM switch
- Hodge, Taylor, and Associates board -- no markings, 3 x AM2909PC chips, 2
x AM2901BDC chips, 8 x 82S2708 ROMs, signed by "W. Hodge" on the back. All
chips soldered on, no sockets...
- Qty. 2 CMS 9650 Serial I/O board -- 8 x 6850 chips (one has Motorola, one
has AMD)
- CMS 9640 Timer board
- GMS 32K Versatile Memory Board GMS6524-01-B -- Tadiran battery backup,
can hold RAM or ROM, currently has 9 2716 ROMs
- Unknown manufacturer interface board -- Has 2708 ROM, 2 x 6820 chips, a
40-pin connector and a 50-pin connector.
- CMS 9601-501 Utility Buffer/Cable Breakout -- 2 RS-232 ports, not sure
which board it is a companion to....
- CMS 9601-503 Cable Breakout Rev. B -- 8 RS-232 ports, probably goes to one
of the 9650 boards above...
That's it!
Rich B.
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>From: "Patrick Finnegan" <pat(a)purdueriots.com>
>
>On Sat, 2 Nov 2002, Patrick Finnegan wrote:
>
>> I managed to pick up a COMDYNA GP-6 analog computer a couple days ago out
>> at University Salvage. I initially bought it for its nixie tubes, not
>> knowing what it was, and then was a bit dissatisfied with the fact that
>> they were not in great shape.
>>
>> After taking a few seconds to look at it and try to determine what is was
>> with all the banana jacks on the front, I thought "Hmm, it adds and
>> multiplies... google says 'Analog computer'... Wahooo!!"
>
>More info about the one I have - looks to be an early model - with nixie
>tubes intead of the modern LED voltmeter. Also, the problem with the
>display tubes went away when I reseated the display cards in their
>sockets.
>
>After playing with this little guy, I'm suprised at how stable the
>components are - when I'm not touching anything, there's basicall NO
>jitter on the display. It looks like some component values have
>deteoriated or drifted a bit, but seems in nearly excellent shape. I'm
>about to go out to RatShack so I can get some more banana plugs and
>create some more patch cables (assuming that they still sell those...)
Hi
The absolute voltages read are not an issue because you are looking
for relative changes. Still, the resistors and capacitors on the
patch field need to have tight tolerences to get accurate results.
>
>One last thing - does anyone have an idea of what the "SW" and "OP" jacks
>at the bottom of the front panel are, and how to use the multipliers? I
>can't quite seem to get them to 'multiply'...
The multipliers may be over ranging. These usually only work over
a small range of inputs. It might also be that your unit doesn't
include the multipliers. Most analog computing functions don't
require the nonlinear operation of multipliers and use mostly
integrators and adders.
Did you look at the page: http://www.comdyna.com/gp6panb.htm#MULT ??
It describes the use of the multiplier. It needs to be used in
conjunction with an amplifier and feedback resistor.
You might look at the bouncing ball routines for the EC-1.
It looks like you should have 8 amplifiers. I think this is
enough to do this routine with. I'm not sure if the info for
this is on a web page someplace.
Dwight
>
>Thanks for any info
>
>Pat
>--
>Purdue Universtiy ITAP/RCS
>Information Technology at Purdue
>Research Computing and Storage
>http://www-rcd.cc.purdue.edu
>
>http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2040637020924.gif
>
>
>
>
I came across a site today which provided more information on this critter,
and as Fritz had suggested, it is indeed a TurboDOS machine.. I have a copy
of TurboDOS around, but I don't know if Philips used a custom version or ?
Not to mention that I don't have a clue how I'd copy it, or even what
TurboDOS runs on. Here's the link I found to the info on the P3800:
http://www.digidome.nl/philips1.htm Also, the P4500 is a minicomputer of
some kind, apparently.. Not sure if this was one of the rebranded Four/Phase
machines or not, but I wish I had one : )
Will J
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