31 Oct
2002
31 Oct
'02
9:26 a.m.
I have been looking at MS Visual Studio for some time
and
NOT buying mainly because it seems like there is no choice
in the matter. Where are the other good prog. environments?
The ad for MS VStudio shows a guy with serious posture
problems (get it? No backbone.) and I'm not too ready for
that experience. Sun/Solaris/Intel has been phased out.
Phillippe is sleeping with the starfishes.
I guess that leaves only something for Linux.
Well... its for the Mac, but can do Win32 as well... I use REALbasic.
Think of it as a Mac version of MS Visual Basic, without the MS
attachments.
You write everything on the Mac, and it will compile for Mac PPC (Classic
and Carbon), and Win32. (The v5 due out some time next year will have a
Windows IDE so you can write on Win and compile for all 3 like you can
currently do on the Mac). They claim future versions will be able to
compile for Linux and PalmOS as well.
All in all, it isn't a bad getup.
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
31 Oct
31 Oct
11:39 a.m.
Well... its for the Mac, but can do Win32 as well... I
use REALbasic.
Think of it as a Mac version of MS Visual Basic, without the MS
attachments.
There's TrueBASIC, too, by Kemeny and Kurtz, the guys who first wrote
BASIC in 1964. The company is still selling up-to-date packages that are
dual compatible... Mac/ DOS and Mac/ Win 3/95/98.
http://www.truebasic.com/
I would guess that what makes a particular language good, is how well
adapted it is to what you are trying to do. What makes a good IDE might
depend more on how big the project is.
-wittig http://www.robertwittig.com/
A business is as honest as its advertisements.
.
12:37 p.m.
+AD4- I would guess that what makes a particular language good,
+AD4- is how well adapted it is to what you are trying to do.
My preferences are: Networking, 2D+ACY-3D Graphics, synthetic
data structures, file ops, GUI's, in that order.
+AD4- What makes a good IDE might depend more on how big the
+AD4- project is.
I've done a couple of over 10Kline systems+ACo-.
EG: OpenDX http://linux.tucows.com/mmedia/preview/9436.html
John A.
+ACo- +ACI-Data Explorer, from the IBM +AF8-Deep Computing Institute+AF8AIg-
http://oss.software.ibm.com/developer/opensource/osscommitment.html
Wish they had used that name while we were still there.
2 Nov
2 Nov
5:51 a.m.
On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, John Allain wrote:
+AD4- I would guess that what makes a particular
language good,
+AD4- is how well adapted it is to what you are trying to do.
My preferences are: Networking, 2D+ACY-3D Graphics, synthetic
data structures, file ops, GUI's, in that order.
+AD4- What makes a good IDE might depend more on how big the
+AD4- project is.
I've done a couple of over 10Kline systems+ACo-.
EG: OpenDX http://linux.tucows.com/mmedia/preview/9436.html
John A.
+ACo- +ACI-Data Explorer, from the IBM +AF8-Deep Computing Institute+AF8AIg-
http://oss.software.ibm.com/developer/opensource/osscommitment.html
Wish they had used that name while we were still there.
John,
I can never quite get used to reading your messages with these ridiculous
escape codes spread throughout. This has been the case pretty much since
you first signed on to this mailing list.
See above.
I've tried to tolerate it (and have strained to make sense of what is
going on with your messages) but I have to object finally. It seems
special punctuation characters (brackets, apostrophes, quote marks) are
being escaped in some wacky fashion.
What the hell is going on with your mail sender?
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
6:45 a.m.
On Sat, 2 Nov 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote:
John,
I can never quite get used to reading your messages with these ridiculous
escape codes spread throughout. This has been the case pretty much since
you first signed on to this mailing list.
See above.
I've tried to tolerate it (and have strained to make sense of what is
going on with your messages) but I have to object finally. It seems
special punctuation characters (brackets, apostrophes, quote marks) are
being escaped in some wacky fashion.
What the hell is going on with your mail sender?
I don't think John is aware of it, or can even see the characters as
such in his mail client. From his mail headers one can see that the
likely culprit is Outlook:
-> MIME-Version: 1.0
-> Content-Type: text/plain;
-> charset="utf-7"
-> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
-> X-Priority: 3
-> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
-> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
-> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200
I'm not sure how one disables the annoying non-standard escape sequences
used by Microsoft's mail clients. ISTR someone else having this same
problem several months ago. There's probably some way to disable this,
but I'll be damned if I ever launch a Microsoft mail client. I've
avoided ever doing so thus far, and I'm not about to taint myself at
this point--even if it is for a good cause. :-)
-brian.
7:35 a.m.
I'm not sure how one disables the annoying
non-standard escape sequences
used by Microsoft's mail clients. ISTR someone else having this same
problem several months ago. There's probably some way to disable this,
but I'll be damned if I ever launch a Microsoft mail client. I've
avoided ever doing so thus far, and I'm not about to taint myself at
this point--even if it is for a good cause. :-)
That was my text, being back-quoted by John, that had the weird escape codes. Is
the problem something that is being generated by John's backquote, or am I the
culprit?
I am also using OE 5, and it should not be creating such a problem. I do a lot
of posting on tech lists and NG's, where any deviation from plain ASCII rates an
immediate flame, and to date, no-one has ever mentioned a problem. I also use
pine and Netscrape on my *nix boxes, and have Calypso set up on this box, and
have never seen anything like this before.
OE 5 has several choices for indent on replies... I am using '> '. If John is
using ': ' or '| ', (the other 2 choices), they might be getting read as
something else by your MUA, and changing the indent might eliminate the problem.
What MUA's are you guys running?
-wittig http://www.robertwittig.com/
to master others is nothing.
to master yourself is something.
.
5 Nov
5 Nov
12:49 a.m.
Robert Wittig wrote:
I think it's something with John's mailer. I read the message on Outlook
2000 and Netscape 4.7, and I think Pine too, and they all showed the
weird stuff...
--
---Dave Woyciesjes
---ICQ# 905818
I'm not sure how one disables the annoying
non-standard escape sequences
used by Microsoft's mail clients. ISTR someone else having this same
problem several months ago. There's probably some way to disable this,
but I'll be damned if I ever launch a Microsoft mail client. I've
avoided ever doing so thus far, and I'm not about to taint myself at
this point--even if it is for a good cause. :-)
That was my text, being back-quoted by John, that had the weird escape codes. Is
the problem something that is being generated by John's backquote, or am I the
culprit?
I am also using OE 5, and it should not be creating such a problem. I do a lot
of posting on tech lists and NG's, where any deviation from plain ASCII rates an
immediate flame, and to date, no-one has ever mentioned a problem. I also use
pine and Netscrape on my *nix boxes, and have Calypso set up on this box, and
have never seen anything like this before.
OE 5 has several choices for indent on replies... I am using '> '. If John is
using ': ' or '| ', (the other 2 choices), they might be getting read as
something else by your MUA, and changing the indent might eliminate the problem.
What MUA's are you guys running?
1:48 a.m.
I think it's something with John's mailer. I
read the
message on Outlook 2000 and Netscape 4.7, and I think
Pine too, and they all showed the weird stuff...
FWIW, here are three example UTF7 escape sequences.
+ A C Q - = $
+ A D 0 - = =
+ A F 8 - = _
If I mistakenly send another UTF message, anybody, just ask
and I'll fix it.
John A.
2 Nov
2 Nov
10:48 a.m.
On Saturday, November 2, 2002, Brian Chase wrote:
On Sat, 2 Nov 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote:
For those who aren't seeing these: an example is '+ A D 4 -' (plus-sign,
uppercase A, uppercase D, numeral 4, minus sign), without the spaces. That
was used instead of a quoting character.
John, I can never quite get used to reading your
messages with these
ridiculous escape codes spread throughout. ... It seems special
punctuation characters (brackets, apostrophes, quote marks) are being
escaped in some wacky fashion.
I don't think John is aware of it, or can even see the characters as such
in his mail client. From his mail headers one can see that the likely
culprit is Outlook:
Well, sort of. The problem is how OE is configured. Look at the character
set:
-> MIME-Version: 1.0
-> Content-Type: text/plain;
-> charset="utf-7"
Those escape sequences are UTF-7 escape sequences. UTF-7 is an encoding that
translates 16-bit Unicode text into 7-bit ASCII text, as defined in RFC2152.
I'm not sure how one disables the annoying
non-standard escape sequences
John needs to change the character set used for outgoing mail. ISO-8859-1
should work fine.
There's probably some way to disable this, but
I'll be damned if I ever
launch a Microsoft mail client.
Granted, OE isn't the best mail client, but to be fair, this kind of
misconfiguration isn't an OE-specific problem. I'm sure other mail clients
can be set to send UTF-7, and they probably would call it a feature.
--
Jeffrey Sharp
11:57 a.m.
What the hell is going on with your mail sender?
I'll try to work up an explanation by Tomorrow and you try to fix
DNS or whatever's wrong with http://www.vintage.org/ . Deal?
John A.
7851
days inactive
7856
days old
9 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
allain＠panix.com -
cb＠mythtech.net -
dwoyciesjes＠comcast.net -
foo＠siconic.com -
jss＠subatomix.com -
rwittig＠chicago.us.mensa.org -
vaxzilla＠jarai.org