test-drb

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101090 discussions

by rickb＠bensene.com

Ethan O'Toole wrote: > We owe a ton of props to the Internet Archive. While they might not have > everything, they have a glimpse into the early days of the internet and > have been at it since early on. Here here. I very much second Ethan's sentiments regarding the Internet Archive. It's a daunting effort to scrape and store all that information. Fortunately, deduplication and compression technologies have come a long way, and long-term, online storage of large amounts of data processed as such has become much less expensive due to the huge decreases in the cost-per-bit of spinning rust. Despite all of that, it's still a lot to store, and even with these technologies, there are costs involved for staffing, servers, as well as continually adding storage. Any and all support the Internet Archive can be given is well-deserved, in my opinion. Shameless plug: I make regular donations to the Internet Archive, and right now, they are have a 2-to-1 matching gift campaign going on due to pledges from corporate and institutional donors, so if you possibly can make a donation, head over to https://archive.org and give help support this valuable /free/ resource. I just made a $25 donation myself. Every little bit helps. Best wishes for a happy and safe Thanksgiving holiday to all, -Rick -- Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Museum http://oldcalculatormuseum.com Beavercreek, Oregon USA

6 years, 4 months

191202 Classic equipment available & my bad year.

by dave.dunfield＠gmail.com

Hi, made a number of updates to the sale pages on my site, and brought back a copy of my commercial site (good for downloads). Unfortunately I screwed up the .html pages and lost some links. Should all me fixed now. Added an FAQ some more parts (eg: 8008 CPI for MOD8), some sample pricing (please see FAQ before complaining). If you've looked at the site before, do refresh each page as you go to it as many browers cache page and will happily show you the old one. http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/sale/index.htm Dave

6 years, 4 months

System/36 Twin-Ax decode help

by alan＠alanlee.org

All, I've recently scratched a curiosity itch on what it would take to build a multi-port Twin-Ax to WiFi bridge. The electrical interface is easy enough and ESP32s are cheap. So I built a bridge PCB-to-FPGA adapter and connected my System/36 (5362), an InfoWindow II (address 0 and 1), and my board during IPL and sign-on to see what I could sniff. The result is here: https://www.retrotronics.org/tmp/s36_ipl_twinax_decode_30nov19.zip I get occasional decode errors called out with 'BAD FRAME'. The [SPF] next to bytes mean bad start bit (0), parity error, or non-zero fill bytes respectively. And I occasionally get a sync pattern followed by either illegal Manchester transitions or return to idle without any bytes (and thus no address) - the zero frames in the log. My main question is I need help on the next step. For a brief moment, I was under the impression SNA LU6 or LU7 ran on top of the Twin-Ax line layer. But that doesn't appear to be the case. I'm not sure it's direct 5250 either. Can anyone familiar with IBM-Midrange-World take a look at the decode and point me to the next protocol layer up the stack? Even the slightest breadcrumbs would be appreciated as I know very little about the Midrange world. Additionally if anyone is familiar with the wire-level and could assist on some of the framing errors, that would help as well. The twin-ax cables are less than 2m each so the line should be 100% clean. The problems are likely something I am doing wrong in the interpreter. Thanks, -Alan Hightower

6 years, 4 months

PC 9821 hardware

by imp＠bsdimp.com

Greetings I think the time has come for me to part with my collection of PC 9821 hardware. It has deteriorated over time, but I think it all still works. I have two laptops and a desktop system. I used it to test FreeBSD/pc98 for years, but support was dropped a few years ago and I have no further need for it. It's a bit oddball for here, perhaps, but I don't want to just scrap it all... Anybody interested? Warner

6 years, 4 months

Free: USENIX publications (Computing Systems and late 90s ;login:)

by aperry＠snowmoose.com

I am continuing to clean out stuff from my office and today's items are printed copies of the USENIX publications Computing Systems (early 90s) and ;login: (late 90s). The content is available online, but some people like the printed versions. I prefer to send them all out in one lot rather than send them out one-at-a-time. They are located in the Seattle area. As far as shipping, I think they would all fit in a large flat-rate priority mail box. alan

6 years, 4 months

Compaq Floppy/Printer board?

by anders.k.nelson＠gmail.com

Hi all, I found this while throwing away e-waste at my old place: https://photos.app.goo.gl/R8xUxYijf1AYHNB38 Is it of any use to anyone? Need to know by Sunday. Thanks!

6 years, 4 months

CRT faceplates / screen "mold"

by jules.richardson99＠gmail.com

Many years ago I cut the faceplate off an HP display exhibiting serious decay of the sealant between the faceplate and the CRT itself, cleaned everything up, then reattached the plate just with a bead of sealant around the perimeter (where it wouldn't be seen once the bezel was back on). Short of outright replacing the CRT with one of the same type, is that still accepted practice - or in the years since has someone worked out a way of applying new sealant across the entire face without getting air trapped in there, thereby maintaining the structural integrity of the original? cheers Jules

6 years, 4 months

Grid server software

by grant＠millhouseindustries.com

I am looking for the elusive grid server software disks, I would really like to put this thing online I know of the disks that were on the yahoo grid group, but they were missing the all important utilities disk 2 , but worse than that they are for a tempest server, which unfortunately won't run the communications card on a regular server. I know there is a copy out there, as i watched the disks slip through my fingers a couple of yeas ago on ebay with a 2701 server drive. The search continues........

6 years, 4 months

P118

by bill.gunshannon＠hotmail.com

It's not really classic (although it does try to pretend to be :-) but does anyone here do anything with the P118 SBC? I am trying to get 8" disks running on it but I am seeing some rather strange behavior. bill

6 years, 4 months

Intel 8272 based floppy controller & Missing Address Mark

by dkgrizzly＠thewaffleiron.net

Hi friends, In the continuing saga of building a CP/M system with Pro-Log cards housed in a Heathkit dual 8? floppy drive cabinet I recently acquired a Pro-Log 7387 floppy disk controller card w/ manuals. The 8272 chip on the card was fried (either before I got it, or by me doing something stupid early on once I had acquired it), and so I replaced the chip with another pulled from a 8-bit ISA floppy controller. Now I am getting some more reasonable replies out of the card. Now I'm stuck with "Missing Address Mark" errors, no matter if I'm using a real 8" floppy drive (8MHz FDC clock, appropriate settings in all the software) or a GoTek floppy emulator (4MHz FDC clock, 720KB settings on the GoTek & Floppy Disk Utility). I can see the read data & read window lines working as I'd expect, so I'm fairly confident that the read data separator and related logic is OK (I even replaced the 74ls74 read data separator with no effect). What am I missing that would cause a 8272 to always return Missing Address Mark? I'm using RomWBW, with the included FDU utility patched to talk to the FDC at the correct addresses, and from the traces I've captured it appears that side of things is working correct. I'm hoping someone out there has experience troubleshooting floppy controllers?and can give me some pointers. -David ------ Trace with GoTek running FlashFloppy and emulating a 720KB drive follows ------- RetroBrew HBIOS v2.9.1-pre.5, 2019-11-23 PROLOG Z80 @ 3.686MHz 0 MEM W/S, 1 I/O W/S, INT MODE 1 512KB ROM, 2048KB RAM SIO0: IO=0xF5 SIO MODE=9600,8,N,1 SIO1: IO=0xF7 SIO MODE=9600,8,N,1 MD: UNITS=2 ROMDISK=384KB RAMDISK=1920KB FD: IO=0xC4 UNITS=2 Unit Device Type Capacity/Mode ---------- ---------- ---------------- -------------------- Disk 0 MD1: RAM Disk 1920KB,LBA Disk 1 MD0: ROM Disk 384KB,LBA Disk 2 FD0: Floppy Disk 3.5",DS/DD,CHS Disk 3 FD1: Floppy Disk 3.5",DS/DD,CHS Serial 0 SIO0: RS-232 9600,8,N,1 Serial 1 SIO1: RS-232 9600,8,N,1 PROLOG Z80 Boot Loader Boot: (C)PM, (Z)System, (M)onitor, (L)ist disks, or Disk Unit # ===> BOOT CPM FROM ROM CBIOS v2.9.1-pre.5 [WBW] Formatting RAMDISK... Configuring Drives... A:=MD1:0 B:=MD0:0 C:=FD0:0 D:=FD1:0 3623 Disk Buffer Bytes Free CP/M-80 v2.2, 54.0K TPA B> FDU Floppy Disk Utility (FDU) v5.2, 08-Jan-2018 [HBIOS] Copyright (C) 2017, Wayne Warthen, GNU GPL v3 SELECT FLOPPY DISK CONTROLLER: (0) Exit (1) Disk IO ECB Board (2) Disk IO 3 ECB Board (3) Zeta SBC Onboard FDC (4) Zeta 2 SBC Onboard FDC (5) Dual IDE ECB Board (6) N8 Onboard FDC (7) RC2014 SMC (SMB) (8) ProLog 7387 === OPTION ===> PL ===== PL ==============<< FDU MAIN MENU >>====================== (S)ETUP: UNIT=00 MEDIA=720KB MODE=POLL TRACE=00 ---------------------------------------------------------------- (R)EAD (W)RITE (F)ORMAT (V)ERIFY (I)NIT BUFFER (D)UMP BUFFER FDC (C)MDS E(X)IT === OPTION ===> FORMAT (T)RACK, (D)ISK ===> DISK ENTER INTERLEAVE [01-09] (02): RESET DRIVE... PROGRESS: TRACK=4F HEAD=01 SECTOR=01 ===== PL ==============<< FDU MAIN MENU >>====================== (S)ETUP: UNIT=00 MEDIA=720KB MODE=POLL TRACE=00 ---------------------------------------------------------------- (R)EAD (W)RITE (F)ORMAT (V)ERIFY (I)NIT BUFFER (D)UMP BUFFER FDC (C)MDS E(X)IT === OPTION ===> READ (S)ECTOR, (T)RACK, (D)ISK, (R)ANDOM ===> TRACK ENTER TRACK [00-4F] (00): ENTER HEAD [00-01] (00): PROGRESS: TRACK=00 HEAD=00 SECTOR=01 READ: 46 00 00 00 01 02 09 2A FF --> 40 01 00 00 00 01 02 [MISSING ADDRESS MARK] CONTINUE? (A)BORT, (R)ETRY, (I)GNORE ===>

6 years, 4 months

IBM SP/SP2 9076

by kevin.bowling＠kev009.com

Anyone have one of these collecting dust? Regards, Kevin

6 years, 4 months

PDP - 8 Front panels

by rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com

Hello Everybody ?After a two year pause due to my wife having been ill but now fully recovered I am back to starting making pdp-8 front panels again I have some stock: pdp-8/e (type A - vertical selector switch start mark) pdp-8/e (type B -? selector? switch start to left of vertical) pdp-8/f panels As pdp8/f but no /f marking. - doing a /m overprint for it pdp8/i I am looking for scrap pdp/8 panels (might trade for a new one), hi res front (and back) dead center pictures (panel on its own) and accurate dimensions (including holes) of any pdp-8 panel to aid me in offering the complete range. PDP-11 ?? Not at this time but maybe later I am busy at the moment with artwork redrawing. The UK winter is not kind to making screens. Even in good warm weather the exposed and washed out screen in its frame takes 24 hours to dry. Then after printing each layer (up to five per panel) takes 24hrs to dry before another layer can be added. Authentic panels produced the exact way they were in the '60s and '70s ain't going to be quick or cheap. But the result is sure worth it. Rod 'Panelman' Smallwood (Digital Equipment Corporation 1975 - 1985) --

6 years, 4 months

TSS/8 on RK05

by mosst＠SDF.ORG

That's great Josh, I look forward to seeing it in action when I'm next at LCM+L! I had been thinking of doing something similar myself, as I also have an 8/e and RK05, but no RF08. Thanks for making the code available :) Regards, -Tom mosst at sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org

6 years, 4 months

Scanning docs for bitsavers

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Jay Jaeger > CCITT Group 4 lossless compression That's very good indeed. I scan text pages in B+W at slightly less resolution (engineering prints I do higher, they need it), but compressed they turn out to be ~50KB per page, or less - for long documents (e.g. the DOS-11 System Programmer's Manual), that produces a reasonably-sized file. > The software I have been using i[s] Irfanview. That's what I use too; it has tons of useful features, including being able to drive my single-sided page-feed scanner and being able to number the even-sided pages correctly. The one I use for this is the 'batch mode'; I can do the entire document into CCITT 4 in one operation. Noel

6 years, 4 months

TSS/8 on RK05

by derschjo＠gmail.com

Hi all -- We've wanted to run TSS/8 on one of our PDP-8 systems at LCM+L for a long time now, and while we contemplated either (a) restoring our RF08 or (b) building an RF08 emulator, I decided it might be fun to investigate a third option: (c) modify TSS/8 to run off hardware we already have running, namely an RK05 drive. And it /was/ fun! And seems to have been successful, as we now have TSS/8 running on our PDP-8/e. Performance is acceptable, and it seems to be stable so far. The changes I made are here: https://github.com/livingcomputermuseum/cpus-pdp8 This is a fork of a codebase that Brad Parker put together a number of years back in which he did some serious work to get TSS/8 to build (amongst other things). I made use of this effort, which saved a lot of time and made building/testing my changes quite straightforward. I also modified the disk image: It's extended to 1MW (the maximum possible without modifying the filesystem code) and I ported a couple of extra programs to TSS/8 (CHEKMO and LISP). I figured some people here might also be able to take advantage of being able to run TSS/8 from RK05. I know RK8E's are pretty rare, but I'm also guessing more people have them than have working fixed-head disks :). If you do give it a try, let me know if you run into any issues or if you have any feature requests. Thanks, Josh

6 years, 4 months

VisiCorp VISI ON

by curt＠atarimuseum.com

Does anyone have original manuals/Disks for VISI ON? I?m looking for an original set and any of the VISI ON specific program packages.

6 years, 4 months

RL02 disk crashes and taking them apart

by cz＠alembic.crystel.com

One of the RL02 packs I have did not look happy upon inspection, so I opened it up. Note that it's a little more complicated to take these packs apart than simply pushing a small rod through the holes in the back of the pack handle: You have to take apart the whole handle mechanism to get to the pins holding the pack to the carriage in order to get the pack off. I'll post some pics of all that eventually. Meantime, pictures of the disk. As you can see the top platter of the disk has a number of concentric rings and a hard crash ring. My guess is this thing was loaded in a bad RL02 that promptly trashed it. Oh well, one for the record books.... Pics at: https://i.imgur.com/phdLWUF.jpg Close up of the damage https://i.imgur.com/yQnt8BJ.jpg Overall shot of the disk Never dull. C

6 years, 4 months

The information age

by dkelvey＠hotmail.com

It is such a shame that in the "information age", we have lost so much of the information. It doesn't help when we have people like Jobs that like to write their own version. It is even worse when companies think it is a law suite risk to keep information more than a year. It is all lost. "The information lost age" Dwight

6 years, 4 months

Key for IBM 9370 - 20

by drb＠msu.edu

> Sure you meant CCW from one o'clock? Sorry, you're looking into the end of the key, and this makes sense. My bad. De

6 years, 5 months

Key for IBM 9370 - 20

by jwsmail＠jwsss.com

I posted on the discord channel looking for information on measuring the keys (ACE cylinder locks) for duplication. I'm including a quote from a post by Jay on the subject.? I need to get the information on measuring the depths of the cuts, as the postings I've found don't mention how the depths are measured for each value. I have an ACE key for an IBM 9370 mod 20 I'm measuring. Found a post by Jay from 2016 Jay West jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Mar 18 15:57:30 CDT 2016 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FYI - the key codes I measured previously for Data General and HP have been cut, tested, and verified. Amazingly, my measurements were correct. So to summarize: XX2247 Code: 5173757 Use: DEC PDP-8 (all varieties), PDP-11 machines that do not use an ACE blank (11/24, 11/44) Anyone have a reference on the depths of the Code values? There's another post with depths, but not explicitly calling out what each number equates to. My master has a DND legend on the back, so I will need to get a copy cut and tested via codes, and will publish it when I find out that it works. Dennis Boone post: Allegedly Control Data used a National C415A on Network Processing Unit cabinets in the late 70s, early 80s. That's an Ilco 1069-N, cuts are 12343 from bow to tip. Cut spacings are .156 .249 .342 .435 .528. Depths are 1=.250 2=.225 3=.200 4=.175. The Boone post has numbers, but they make no sense WRT the post Jay posted (which has 7 depth values) Also need to know if metric or inches.

6 years, 5 months

"First Internet message" and ...

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

Ooops, editing error: > Although one could build a system which has aggregatable addresses, used > for path selection, but hid them from the hosts, and used an 'invisible' > mapping system to translate from them to the aggregatable 'true' addresses. Should have been "to translate from the 'addresses' used by the hosts to the". > the changing nature of 'the Internet', but alas the list archives are > broken at the moment, so no URL Here are Jack's thoughts on how 'the Internet' is no longer a true internet: Circa 1984, I remember giving lots of presentations where one theme was that we had spent the first 10 years of the Internet (taking the 1974 TCP paper as the start) making it possible for every computer to talk with every other computer.BB We would spend the next 10 years making it not possible to do such things, so that only communications that were permitted would be possible. Sadly, I'm not sure that ever happened. The commercial world started adopting TCP big time. The government decided to focus on using COTS - Commercial Off-The-Shelf hardware and software. The Research world focused on things like faster and bigger networks. At BBN, the focus shifted to X.25, SNA, and such stuff that promised a big marketplace. TCP had gone through 5 releases from TCP2 through TCP4 in just a few years, so remaining items on the To-Do list, like address space, were expected to be addressed shortly. I'm not sure if anyone ever conveyed this architecture to the IETF or all the vendors that were popping up with products to build Internet(s). I think changes like NAT came about to solve pragmatic problems. But that of course broke the "end-to-end" architecture, which would view NAT actions as those of an intruder or equipment failure. So TCP became no longer end-to-end. The Internet is typically viewed as a way to interconnect networks. But I think it's evolved operationally to become the way to interconnect across administrative boundaries, where Autonomous Systems have become associated with different ISPs, other mechanisms are used by vendors to create their own walled gardens of services (e.g., "clouds" or "messaging"), and NAT is used at the edges to connect to users' internets. The end-to-end nature is gone. But that's just based on my observations from the outside. I don't have a clue as to what today's actual Internet Architecture is, other than a collection of RFCs and product manuals that may or may not reflect reality, or if there is anyone actually able to manage the architecture. From my user's perspective, it's a Wild West out there..... And the definition of The Internet is still elusive. I agree that the users' definition is the best working one -- The Internet is the thing I'm connected to to do what I do when I get "on the Net." Noel

6 years, 5 months

"First Internet message" and ...

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Brent Hilpert > Roughly, IP took care of a common addressing scheme and a common > packet presentation, TCP took care of end-to-end flow control. Yes on IP, but TCP's main function is reliability - much of the mechanism of TCP (sequence numbers, acknowledgements, timeouts and retransmissions, and checksums) is all there for that. > As so much nowadays is about throwing ethernet frames around on > different types of links and network formats (not what ethernet was > originally designed for), some of the earlier diversity that made > 'interneting' necessary may no longer be there. There is one aspect of internetworking (the original term - I probably should have described PUP/CHAOS/XNS as 'internetworking protocols') which _is_ crucial, though - the multi-layer address space. We'd need that even if _everything_ in the world used Ethernet frame headers. If one tried to do path selection (usually called 'routing', but I don't use that term as it can be confused with packet forwarding) using only 48-bit interface identifiers, it just wouldn't scale to the size network we have now. The ability to aggregate groups of hosts, so that a distant routing table contains only a single entry for all of them, is crucial for scaling purposes. Without that, routing tables would have to have billions (literally; add up the numbers of different kinds of end-user devices - laptops, etc) of entries. (Heck, even XNS had network numbers, precisely for this reason. Although one could build a system which has aggregatable addresses, used for path selection, but hid them from the hosts, and used an 'invisible' mapping system to translate from them to the aggregatable 'true' addresses. The LISP networking system does this, as does the 800 and inter-provider portability capability in the 'phone system - although in both cases the input and output to the mapping system have identical syntax.) Originally, IP had only two layers in the addressing - network # and 'rest', then we added a third layer with 'subnets', and finally went to a potentially multi-layer system with CIDR. (I'm not sure what ISPs are actually doing with them now - I'm now out of touch with that world.) > It might be arguable whether we have an 'internet' any longer or just a > great big 'network' with different types of links. I found Jack Haverty's message to the internet-history list about the changing nature of 'the Internet', but alas the list archives are broken at the moment, so no URL. Noel

6 years, 5 months

First Internet message and ...

by c.murray.mccullough＠gmail.com

The first Internet message was sent 60 yrs. ago on Nov. 21 between SRI and UCLA. It was one-to-many, or more accurate one-to-one, but the world today is many-to-many though cctalk runs through a moderator. The Internet democratizes and gives a certain freedom to us all but it can lead to mis-information from "one" or mis-interpretation by the "many". Computerization of society as seen through cctalk tells this story well mainly through the hardware side. Happy computing. Murray ?

6 years, 5 months

Correction for First Internet Message

by c.murray.mccullough＠gmail.com

I apologize for the wrong date. Should have said Nov. 21, 1969. Makes more sense timewise... Happy computing Murray ?

6 years, 5 months

"First Internet message" and ...

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Nigel Johnson > No, your home has an intranet! Can you please provide a crisp, definitive, technical definition of what an 'intranet' is (similar to the one I just provided for 'internet' - "disparate networks tied together with packet switches which examine the internet-layer headers")? If not, it's just marketing-speak, and should go where "Hitchhiker's Guide" said marketing should go. (Having said that, only half-jokingly, I should add that I am fully aware that _really good_ marketing people are worth their own weight in gold-pressed latinum; the prime example being Steve Jobs, who invented several products that people didn't know they needed/wanted until he produced them.) > From: Paul Koning > No, "internet" has (had?) a very different meaning. Loosely, a network > of computers belonging to different organizations, or using different > technologies. That's not the definition used by the originators of the term: see the Cerf/Kahn paper. (I basically regurgitated it, above.) > "Internet" .. the term picked to replace "ARPAnet" when it became > desirable to call that network by a name that doesn't designate it as a > US government research agency creation. I can guarantee you that that is not correct (sorry). In 1982, which is approximately when the term was created, you _had_ to have a USG connection to get connected to the Internet. And the ARPANET was always called the ARPANET until its last remnants were turned off in 1990 (although use of NCP was discarded in January 1983, considerably earlier, so it was only used as a component of the Internet after that). In fact, I recollect the conversion with Vint Cerf (at an INENG/IETF meeting, IIRC) where the term 'Internet' was suggested/adopted; in fact I may have been the person who suggested it, although the memory is now too dim. The adoption was _solely_ to do with the need for a name for the large internet we were all connecting to, and _nothing_ to do with organizational stuff. Noel

6 years, 5 months

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