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101090 discussions

1983 Micro prices (was Re: The Origins of DOS)

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

BBC Micro everybody had one!! -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules Richardson Sent: 01 November 2006 10:44 To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: 1983 Micro prices (was Re: The Origins of DOS) Chris M wrote: >>> What this implies is that the PC was several years >> delayed in UK. >> >> No, this implies I was quoting from a magazine. > > I've heard stuph to the effect that there wasn't alot of Big Blue > stuph in the UK, at least not in the early days. Not on the desktop - I think there were a fair few 'server' class systems around though. But yes, my understanding is that the PC just didn't take off in the UK like it did in the USA (and elsewhere?). Remember that the UK had a massive amount of choice when it came to general desktop machines - quite probably more so than the USA did. UK society at the time was very much "squeeze every last possible drop out of what you had", whilst the impression I've got of the US was that people were far more willing to upgrade systems reasonably frequently to whatever the latest thing available was. > Research Machines was a big name though, and common. In education, yes. Not so much for home or business use, though. What timeframe are we talking - say 1982 to 1985 or so? The education market was split primarily between Research Machines and Acorn, with a few others picking up the scraps. The home computer market was amazingly diverse, but frequent names were Sinclair, Acorn and Commodore. The corporate world of desktops was similarly diverse (with the likes of CP/M crates, Commodore, Apple, and IBM all featuring) - but there were also a huge number of business people making use of the same machines that were found in the home. Often these people were talented enough to write their own bespoke software to manage their business, but there was a healthy market in 'business' software written for these machines too. A while back I came up with a list of early-80s UK computer manufacturers (in order to see how much space we'd need for a UK-specific room at the museum). It ended up being pretty massive... > I still want the blooming Nimbus Good grief, why? They're pretty nasty. If you want something from RML, go for a 380Z or a 480Z - those are 'real' computers; the 380Z has that lovely rugged 'military' feel to it with all the fun of a modular system (albeit without a rigid backplane :-) whilst the 480Z is a great example of good design, both hardware and packaging. cheers Jules

19 years, 7 months

Correction to a looooooong ago post!

by evan＠snarc.net

Way back in July 1999, someone wrote thus: >>> Byte Magazine first used the term "laptop" in reference to a production computer, after viewing the Epson HX-20 at a trade show in November 1981. <<< The original post is here: http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/1999-July/130419.html .... but it's not true! Recently I looked through all the Byte issues from that time period and found the reference in question, which was in the Feb. 1982 issue. In the issue's main editorial, on page 14, Chris Morgan referred to "...an intriguing prototype of the Epson HX-20 personal computer... The beginning of a new trend to what I call 'briefcase' computers: battery-operated machines that combine portability with powerful computer features. It's the sort of design that will appeal to people on the move." Byte's earliest use of "laptop" that I could find wasn't until the Jan. 1984 issue, in an article called "Portables--1984 and Beyond" by Dave Winer. I contacted Dave and he said he heard the term from Ester Dyson, but Ester said she doesn't recall saying it. She did say that "luggable" was her term, referring to the suitcase-sized computers. Byte did write about "lap" computers a couple of times in 1983, but not "laptops" per se. I'm bringing this up now because I have seen a few recent web references which cite the 1999 post as fact. Can anyone show me (not just say they remember) a pre-Jan. 1984 reference to the word "laptop" in the context of portable computers? I searched on Lexis-Nexus but the results were flawed. Apparently someone tagged all the pre-1984 references to "mobile" and "portable" computers with the word "laptop" which may be logical for most searchers but doesn't help me at all. - Evan

19 years, 7 months

New monitors on old machines

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

right...so whos in charge of that dept? --- cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org <Watzman at neo.rr.com> wrote: > Re: "Indeed, a series of DACs would be needed to convert the T2K TTL to > analog for modern monitors but it doesn't solve the scanning frequency." > > The level issue is easily solved with just a couple of resistors. > > The real problem is the scan rates. > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited

19 years, 7 months

New monitors on old machines

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

Re: "Indeed, a series of DACs would be needed to convert the T2K TTL to analog for modern monitors but it doesn't solve the scanning frequency." The level issue is easily solved with just a couple of resistors. The real problem is the scan rates.

19 years, 7 months

quads and imagedisk

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

no problemo. At least the Tandy 2000 variety. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail. http://new.mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 7 months

Craziest ebay price EVER

by evan＠snarc.net

Not that I or anyone else really needs another Apple IIe, but fyi: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140044907978

19 years, 7 months

Litton disc drives

by aek＠bitsavers.org

The drive is a CDC 9762. The tape is a variant of the Cipher 880

19 years, 7 months

X10 Hall light (was New monitors on old machines)

by dm561＠torfree.net

--------------Original Message: From: Roger Merchberger <zmerch-cctalk at 30below.com> Subject: Re: New monitors on old machines >my X10 setup won't work thru the ol' knob-n-tube (already tested >that) installed in my house -- depending on which circuit's going thru >which fuse. However, I've been slowly rewireing the place where I can - >specifically so I can use the X10 modules I have. I doubt that the knob-n-tube is the problem; have run X10 stuff 100% reliably in my ancient 3-story knob & tube house for a decade (except for the occasional module failure). The RF stuff is another story however... Have you tried the .1 uf phase coupling cap (or the "official" phase coupler)? >> 2) train your dog how to work a light switch >He died a few months ago. :-( Sorry to hear it; so did my cat... :-( >> 3) switch with delay >Hadn't thought of that... might have to check the lighting shops here to >see what they have in stock... While you're there, look for a wall switch with IR sensor & delay; sounds perfect for your app, although you might have trouble finding one that'll work in your 3-way setup (if you'd still need it). >7) Three way switch at the other enough of the hall. >It's already on a three-way switch with the bottom of the stairs... do they >make 4-way switches? Yes, but that'd require additional wiring. >And everyone forgot #8: Win a home remodeling contest so I can get $100,000 >so I can afford to pay someone *else* to gut & redo the house in an >expedient manner. ;-) Can't beat that! m

19 years, 7 months

FA: LOT (9) HP MDL 9825B DIGITAL COMPUTER SYSTEMS

by legalize＠xmission.com

Pics: <http://web.govliquidation.com/auction/view_photo?eventId=2619&lotNumber=100…> Lot: <http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=1034224&convertTo=USD> -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>

19 years, 7 months

FA: HP 7970E digital tape unit

by legalize＠xmission.com

Dunno what this is, but its from Hooks/Texarkana which seems to be disposing of lots of minicomputer stuff over the past year. Photos: <http://web.govliquidation.com/auction/view_photo?eventId=2619&lotNumber=532…> Lot: <http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=1025334&convertTo=USD> -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>

19 years, 7 months

1983 Micro prices

by javickers＠solutionengineers.com

Witchy wrote: > > Hi folks, > > I know this was published in the UK media in 1983 which > doesn't really vouch for its authenticity, but it gives a > good idea of prices for the micros that were available at the time. > > It's the A-Z of Personal Computers published by Video Press > in 1983 and some of its prices are thus: (all UK pounds, > multiply by roughly 2 to get the $) > > Tandy TRS80 M1: 199 > Apple ][ and ][e: 1209/1270 > Osborne 1: 1430 > Commodore 4016: 632 > Apple ///: 2418 > Apple Lisa: 7500 > DEC Rainbow 100: 2300 > HH Tiger: 2700 > IBM PC: 2390 > N* Advantage/Horizon: 2300/2295 > ACT Sirius 1 (Victor 9000): 2754 > Intertec Superbrain II: 2100 Well, I have in front of me here the Winter 1983 edition of Micro Choice (published by Argus), which gives the following prices (all UKP): Apple ][e 845.00 Atari 800 245.00 BBC Model A 299.00 BBC Model B 399.00 Commodore 64 299.00 Dragon 32 199.00 Epson HX-20 499.00 Jupiter Ace 89.95 Lynx 225.00 NASCOM3 376.00 NewBrain 233.00 Osborne 1 (not priced) Research Machines RML 380Z From 500.00 Sharp MZ-80A 549.00 Sord M5 189.95 TI 99/4A 199.00 VIC-20 169.99 Genie I 279.00 Genie II 299.00 ZX81 49.95 ZX Spectrum (16K) 125.00 ZX Spectrum (48K) 165.00 The following machines are all reviewed (some in great depth), with several optional extras priced. Note that many appear in the table above with different prices.... Why? Who knows...: Sharp MZ-80A: 477.00 MZ-80AEU Expansion Unit: 115.00 MX-80FB Dual Disk Unit + Cable: 706.00 (!!!) MZ-8AFI Disk Interface: 115.00 MZ-80P6 Printer + cable: 496.45 MZ-8BP51 Printer Interface: 34.50 MZ-80IO2 Universal Interface: 51.75 MZ-8AP5R Character Generator: 14.95 Disc BASIC: 34.65 Epson HX-20: 411.00 + VAT Microcassette (drive I assume) 75.00 extra 16KB RAM Module 80.00 + VAT 16KB RAM/16KB ROM Module 80.00 + VAT Acoustic Coupler 220.00 + VAT TV Display Adapter 100.00 to 150.00 Laser 200: 69.95 16K RAMpack 29.95 64K RAMpack 59.95 Printer Interface 19.95 Joysticks (price per pair) 19.95 Lightpen 19.95 Colour Genie: 168.00 Pair of Joysticks 49.49 EG 2012 Centronics Printer I/F 30.50 (includes cable) Discs TBA ACT Sirius 1: Single Floppy with 128K RAM 2,195.00 + VAT Dual Floppy with 128K RAM 2,695.00 + VAT Dual Floppy with 256K RAM 2,895.00 + VAT 128K RAM board 395.00 + VAT Sinclair ZX Spectrum: ZX Spectrum 16K 99.95 ZX Spectrum 48K 129.95 ZX Printer 39.95 ZX Microdrive 49.95 RS232 Interface 49.95 (or, if purchased with a m/drv) 29.95 Acorn Electron: 199.00 Sharp MZ-700: 250.00 Modular Printer/Plotter 130.00 Modular Cassette recorder 40.00 Jupiter Ace: 89.95 Oric 1: Oric 1 16K RAM 99.95 Oric 1 48K RAM 139.95 Oric MCP-40 Printer/Plotter 169.95 (40.00 voucher with every Oric 1) Hitachi 3" drive under 200.00 Sharp PC-1251: 79.95 Including CE125 printer/cass 99.95 BBC Micro: Model A 299.00 Model B 399.00 Sord M5: (without joypads) 149.95 Sharp MZ-3541: 000.00 (a typo, presumably) Dragon 32: 175.00 Joystick Unit 10.00 ROM Cartridges 20.00 Cassette software 8.00 5.25" disc drive SSSD 275.00 48k Lynx: 225.00 Commodore 64: 299.00 + VAT Graphics Cartridge 50.00 approx Cheers, Ade. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.28/518 - Release Date: 04/11/2006

19 years, 7 months

Discussion of large systems

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> Ok so you do know different. Why is there so little discussion of > these on the list? There are VERY VERY few people that have such systems. I only know of at most a dozen in the US, and most of them do not participate in on-line discussions. A few rairly use email. > Is there a more appropriate list? Maybe as we all have different > manufacturer's kit we have little to talk about, but we still face > Similar problems, thing like tracking down media, repairing peripherals, fault > finding logic, keeping the machine clean and stopping them rusting, > keeping the offline support stuff working - keypunches, Flexowriters, > Teletypes etc, though maybe that is not a problem for you as your > machine has a comms controller. The Computer History Museum is formalizing the restoration process, now that several machines have either been restored, or are in the process. Surviving systems from before 1975 are very rare animals, esp mainframes, since so many of them have been scrapped for precious metals. Sadly, there is even less software that has survived. CHM didn't start seriously collecting documentation nor software prior to the move to the West Coast in the 90's. While they have an impressive collection of hardware, and a pretty decent collection of US computer documentation now, the software holdings pre 1975 are minimal. I will be giving a talk at VCF this Saturday on the CHM software collection.

19 years, 7 months

Pascal in production environments (was Re: lisadraw)

by charlesmorris＠hughes.net

----Original Message---- All I remember from Pascal programs I have seen is that every thing is 1 large program. I/O is from the punched card era and every body handles SETS differently. Did any one ever use TINY Pascal? I remember back in '81 writing a lot of 1802 assembly language for a Discrete Fourier Transform processor (TTL and HC chips) in a sonobuoy project (PC boards 20" long and only 3" wide)... now you just throw in a DSP chip that runs on milliwatts... Anyhow I was very happy when "Micro Concurrent Pascal" came out, so I could write the control program and user-interface routines in a high- level language. Of course it didn't have good checking, as I discovered after chasing an intermittent crash for days with only a scope and logic analyzer. A junior programmer had put a subscript value of 60 in the middle of a group of variables, although the array itself was defined as [1..20]. It wasn't easy to spot by eye even once we had found it. So a location 40 bytes away was being overwritten, and sometimes to a value that would kill the program, sometimes not! -Charles

19 years, 7 months

Lisa history

by kossow＠computerhistory.org

> I'm curious why Larry Tesler and his team from Xerox Parc picked Pascal as > the language to build Lisa on...esp. considering the Alto was a BCPL machine > (forerunner of C). > I know Apple was an early adopter of USCD Pascal...I wonder if had any > influences. The original Lisa was going to be a 2901 based machine running a variant of P-Code. This died off pretty quickly once the 68000 was announced. I assume David Craig has this all documented somewhere. I heard the early history from Paul Baker. Lisa had been going for a while before Larry came over from PARC. Just before Larry left Apple, there was an internal talk on Lisa history which gave a chronology of events. Maybe Larry has written this all up somewhere. > Did Apple write their own compiler? See the previous message. It was written by Silicon Valley Software

19 years, 7 months

lisadraw

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

what were these routines writtenw in originally? (C presumably I suppose, though one could only wonder why they werent written in assembly TBW) ____________________________________________________________________________________ Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Yahoo! Messenger's cheap PC-to-Phone call rates (http://voice.yahoo.com)

19 years, 7 months

Lisa history

by aek＠bitsavers.org

19 years, 7 months

Lisa Pascal

by aek＠bitsavers.org

Lisa Pascal was developed by Silicon Valley Software, who also sold it and a Pascal based operating system to Corvus for the Corvus Concept. SVS also sold a FORTRAN compiler into the early Unisoft Unix market. If you do a hex dump of the Lisa Workshop disc 5, you'll find a 1981 SVS copyright at location 38bb0

19 years, 7 months

Lisa inside Apple

by aek＠bitsavers.org

>> I know there have been people looking for this stuff for a long time.. After >> the Lisa group purge ("A players", etc.) happened, very few people wanted to >> be known as having worked on it. Even on the inside, it was tough to get >> people who worked on Lisa to talk about it. >> >I'd presume that some of that may be NDA's. I was a Senior Engineer at Apple for almost 20 years, first in ATG, then in CPU Engineering, and knew most of the people still there during that time that worked on Lisa. They didn't (and for the most part still) don't want to talk about it. > I don't know why there should be any stigma associated with having > worked on the Lisa project. Don North was there earlier than I was, and worked closely with one of the main hardware guys that didn't leave with Jobs when they formed NeXT. He could probably answer this better than I can, but there was an attitude internally that people who worked on Lisa worked on the 'losing' project. This faded out as time went on, and the Mac II and Laserwriter pushed profits up, but it was clearly still there when I started in 1986.

19 years, 7 months

imaging XENIX disks

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

I cant rightly say cuy I dont rightly know. I suggested he join so maybe well be hearing from him shortly. --- cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote: > > > I've tried > > Winimage and ImageDisk but they didn't work. > > "didn't work" isn't particularly helpful > > HOW didn't ImageDisk work? > > Did he try using a 360K drive? > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sponsored Link Get an Online or Campus degree Associate's, Bachelor's, or Master's - in less than one year. http://www.findtherightschool.com

19 years, 7 months

imaging XENIX disks

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> I've tried > Winimage and ImageDisk but they didn't work. "didn't work" isn't particularly helpful HOW didn't ImageDisk work? Did he try using a 360K drive?

19 years, 7 months

It feels SOOOO good to run a modern OS on classic computers

by dzubint＠vcn.bc.ca

Mon Nov 6 18:24:38 CST 2006, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Or... You could just run OpenVMS V7.3 on that MicroVAX :^) Well, yes... how about I meet you halfway and just say that OpenBSD is on my one RZ26 drive and VMS v5.5-2 is on the other internal drive. So I get the best of both worlds :-) Thomas Dzubin ps: will OpenVMS 7.3 run in 8MB of RAM? (yeah, yeah, I know...google is my friend)

19 years, 7 months

CCAG 2007 May 26, 2007 Lorain, OH

by legalize＠xmission.com

In case anyone didn't already know: The Classic Computing and Gaming Show <http://www.ccagshow.com/index.html> -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>

19 years, 7 months

frequency doubling

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

Isnt this a relatively simple matter? There wont a circuit that halves the duration/doubler the freq of 5 digital signals be run of the mill? __________________________________________________________________________________________ Check out the New Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. (http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta)

19 years, 7 months

11/44 is alive, as is the 11/34!

by jwest＠ezwind.net

The 11/44 has come to life. It passed all the diags I threw at it, plus booted RT11. I did that on an RL02 and would like to switch that system to an RA81. Once the RA81 is in place, that system is done. But at least the cpu is known working. In case I didn't mention it here, the 11/34 is also alive. Turns out the "odd" diagnostic results I was seeing are actually what a working system prints. The /34 booted RT11 as well and ran a few small compiles. All I have to do now is move the cpu from the table on the side of the rack and mount it inside the rack. Then that box is done as well. Once those above cosmetic issues are done, I'll take a short break and then revisit the 11/45 project which was temporarily shelved :D I'd love to spend more time now with the /44 and /34 to get TSX up and running, play with sysgening a new system, etc. But no time to play yet, I'm under orders to consolidate and get rid of stuff. Thanks to all who gave input, advice, and knowledge! Jay West

19 years, 7 months

fyi: new superPET doc

by superfiko74＠libero.it

E' il manuale dell' Apl per il superpet. Se hai un superpet allora puo' servirti :) Mai visto un superpet se non in foto, sarebbe una macchina interessante da vedere ed usare, so che ci vuole poco ma e' il piu' particolare ed interessante dei vari PET/CBM. Ciao Andrea ---------- Initial Header ----------- >From : cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org To : cctalk at classiccmp.org Cc : Date : Sun, 5 Nov 2006 12:36:42 -0800 (PST) Subject : fyi: new superPET doc > I've added the SuperPET Waterloo APL manual on my site. > > http://www.trailingedge.com/cbm8/ > > (Warning it is 38 meg) > > ----- > David Williams > http://www.trailingedge.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ Mutuo da 200.000?? Tassi ridotti:euribor +0.70%. Solo per richieste online. www.mutuionline.it http://click.libero.it/mutuionline6nov

19 years, 7 months

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