test-drb

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101090 discussions

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> So, who knows what documents I need and where to get them? Clean copies of 8/E schematics are difficult to find. I'll go through the scans that I have to try to find a good set. Most of the omnibus interface schems are on line under http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp8/omnibus

19 years, 1 month

Big pile of VAX documentation to be disposed

by jzg22＠drexel.edu

There is a large pile of VAX and other documentation waiting for disposal on the 7th floor of Disque Hall at Drexel University in Philadelphia. Disque hall is located on the former 32nd street between market and chestnut streets, its the tall(~10 floors)) brick building. Pretty much everything paper, and a working Phaser 370? printer (missing its paper tray and missing the centronics->microcentronics adapter but otherwise working) is free for the taking. This documentation originally went along with the VAX machine which someone from the list rescued from there about 2 years ago when it was being disposed. Jonathan Gevaryahu jzg22 at drexel.edu

19 years, 1 month

Help to identify a Selectric based terminal.

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> http://www.dvq.com/oldcomp/photos2/1k/selectric_term1.jpg Found one in the CHM collection today. It is a "Datel 30". There are a few mentions of it on the web, mostly saying it was a light-duty device that broke a lot.

19 years, 1 month

Heathkit ET3400

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Can somone point me to scans of the manuals and schematics for the Heathkit trainer ET3400A? Thanks, Billy

19 years, 1 month

Minor Earthquake in Kent5

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

> > I hope everyone came through alright. Is anyone on the list from > Folkestone? Not Folkestone but I felt it just West of Ashford. The joints in the timber framed upper floor made a lot of noise, but nobody downstairs (which is brick built) noticed anything. I had to turn the TV on to confirm it was an earthquake. I'd felt one or two when I was in Cupertino years ago but never expected to feel one in Kent. I think the same 'quake in California would not even get a mention in the news, but our buildings are not designed for them here.

19 years, 1 month

Nice ad

by grant＠stockly.com

190107136286 Told him about the timeline of CP/M and DOS and he gave me a very rude response. So he got a "Inappropriate or excessive use of terms not relevant to the item " from me. Maybe otheres should point out the facts. : ) It really ticks me off when people try to take advantage of others... Grant

19 years, 1 month

Offer: old Linpack manual

by silent700＠gmail.com

Need to start paring down my book collection/pile! Will send this to whoever wants it for the cost of shipping. "Linpack Users' Guide" from 1979. ISBN 0-89871-172-X. Authors Dongarra, Bunch, Moler, Stewart. It's in good shape but has some writing on the first page. Appears to be a second printing. Preface contains a nice list of Linpack test sites and the machines in use, including the CDC Cyber 175 at NASA, and a Honeywell 6080 at Bell Labs. I'm in 60074 zip, will send book rate or whatever you like. -- jht

19 years, 1 month

TNIX

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> There are quite a number of versions of Utek (@&^!&^ Outlook won't let > me capitalize the "t"). The first versions were for the National 320xx > CPUs. This ran on the 6205's, 6130, and 4132. Later, a Motorola > 68000-based verson was released. FWIW, there was a V7 based system called TNIX which shipped on the 8560 development systems (11/23 and 11/73 based). Would be nice to find the 8" diag and release floppies for this (I have a couple of them).

19 years, 1 month

Lack of 8-bit threads (was Re: Linux question)

by classiccmp＠memory-alpha.org.uk

Hi, > I 'only' have the HP150-II. It's in a larger case, with a 12" >CRT, an optional touchscreen (which is fitted on mine).... I have one of these too, though without the touchscreen or any expansion cards (it's even missing the rear plastic cover). Seems like an interesting machine, one of these days I must get it set up; I've only had it 9 years, LOL! How difficult are HP/IB hard drives to come by for them (I've got the dual floppy drive unit)? Always hankered after an original 150 though, it's a really cool shape! :-) TTFN - Pete.

19 years, 1 month

Texas Instruments 960B

by cc＠corti-net.de

Hi, we've cleaned and powered up our TI 960B at our museum, it seems to be working fine. I've entered a small test program to test the basic parts: 1000 7007 0000 NOP 1002 7007 0000 NOP 1004 7082 1000 B @1000 Both single step and run mode work. But that's all we are able to do at the moment because there is no documentation available for the 960B. The machine (from 1975) has 8k of MOS memory, and only few CRU interfaces, one TT/EIA (TT), one data interface (DI) (I think it's a digital I/O board) and one timer interface (TI). So we need at least the programmer's guides for the TT and DI, maybe the service manuals for the entire machine. Is there a chance to find them somewhere? Christian

19 years, 1 month

PDP8/E schematics

by hachti＠hachti.de

Hi folks, I am looking for docs about my PDP8/E CPU. I found a maintainance manual ("volume 1" of ???) on bitsavers. But no schematic. So, who knows what documents I need and where to get them? Best wishes, Philipp :-)

19 years, 1 month

Bandai Pippin aka Atmark

by wayne.smith＠charter.net

Does anyone on the list own a Bandai Pippin - marketed in the UK and Japan as the "Atmark"? As owners of this Apple Power PC-powered box are well aware, software (mostly games and edutainment stuff) is difficult to come by, and when it appears on Ebay, often goes for stratospheric prices. For example: http://cgi.ebay.com/Bungie-Super-Marathon-for-Pippin-world-mark_W0QQitem Z150114489326QQihZ005QQcategoryZ62053QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem So, I am looking for Pippin owners who might have software to exchange. Here is a list of what I have: @World TV Works @World Basics @World Registration @World Browser Compton's Encyclopedia Racing Days Mr. Potato Head ("award winning") Home Improvement 1-2-3 (Home Depot) Ugoku Burotsuku (Japanese - "moving blocks") Fortullia (Japanese - "fortune teller") Victorian Park (Japanese) -W

19 years, 1 month

test - ignore

by evan＠snarc.net

Just a test.

19 years, 1 month

Goofy question about "industrial" archiving

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Chuck Guzis wrote: On 1 May 2007 at 9:09, Billy Pettit wrote: > The Cricket was the first 1.6 inch hard drive. Never made it to market > though a few samples exist. It was 20 years before the 1.8 inch which did > get to market. Didn't HP roll out a very small hard drive before that? I seem to recall that there was something about the head suspension that would enable it to withstand very high G-forces. Cheers, Chuck --------------------- Billy wrote: HP rolled out the Kittyhawk in the mid-'80s. It had reasonable success in some printers and copiers, as well as a few other applications. They are fun little drives to play with. The Cricket was about 8 years earlier and had no success - the technology wasn't there. There were many other experiments in small factor over the last 30 years. I remember a Comdex in the late '80s where IBM showed off a 7/8" drive. They were going to mount 32 of them on both sides of PC card and have a plug in RAID system. Like all multiple drive applications, the vibration from drive working gave errors to the rest. Conner made a 1.3 inch drive in the early '90s. I see them on eBay a few times a year. I have one that is still operational. There have been numerous attempts at the small form factor. The iPod was the first practical application so it drove the 1.8" development and production. It also drove the 1" development. That turned out to be a disaster for everyone involved when the Price War on NAND Flash destroyed the 1" market. It didn't help the Flash people either. (So far this year, NAND prices have dropped 65%!) There must have been other small drives. It's an idea that looks great until you try to do execute. I've only mentioned the ones that I worked on or have samples to study. Billy

19 years, 1 month

Goofy question about "industrial" archiving

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Alexandre Souza asked: >The Cricket was the first 1.6 inch hard drive. Never made it to market >though a few samples exist. It was 20 years before the 1.8 inch which did >get to market. Billy, wasn't that drive that fitted a Polaroid PDC-2000 camera? I had one of these with a VERY SMALL hard drive inside! Greetings from Brazil Alexandre Souza <http://www.tabajara-labs.com.br> ---------------------- Billy answers: To my knowledge, no Crickets were ever sold. But an awful lot of samples went out. It was designed and built in the Normandale plant of Magnetic Peripherals. I know nothing about the Poloroid camera. But I'm not surprised. The small drive idea is one that seems to come to every engineer in the industry. There have to be more attempts. It's a geek thing. Keeps coming around; sort of like the 3.5" CD, or the vertical IC. Billy

19 years, 1 month

Goofy question about "industrial" archiving

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Chuck Guzis asked: What was the smallest fixed-head drum memory ever constructed? Cheers, Chuck ----------------- Billy: The smallest I ever worked on was a little less than 1" in diameter and 3" long. It used fluid bearings and spun at a high RPM - I want to say 10K but think it might be a little less. The heads fit on a bar that rotated to bring them close to the drum once it was up to speed. The bar was spring loaded so it could unload the heads automatically in case of a power failure. The whole assembly was heavily shielded and shock protected. It was to fit in a fire control computer used by the Navy and Air Force. It's purpose was to reload the main computer memories in case of an EMP from a nuclear device. It really sticks in my mind because I later found out that the purchase price was in excess of $100K. Billy

19 years, 1 month

Goofy question about "industrial" archiving

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

* Alexandre Souza wrote: >continued to play with floppy media for years. A wonderful example is their >Cricket drive - every PC collection should have one. Maybe Click? :o) That was nice, a drive inside a pcmcia card :oD ---------------- You're right. My bad. Too much crosstalk between my synapses. The IOmega drive was the Click. The Cricket was the first 1.6 inch hard drive. Never made it to market though a few samples exist. It was 20 years before the 1.8 inch which did get to market. Billy

19 years, 1 month

RSX-11

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

Probably an extremely frequently asked question, but searching didn't seem to bring anything up. What is the current status of PDP-11 O/S software? USENET seems to indicate that there is no non-commercial license, yet the simh website has some of them available for download, with the license file having a clause that states that it is valid for emulators owned by DEC (??), and also seems to indicate that RSX-11 is covered, yet RSX-11 isn't available. Mentec's site isn't very helpful, all they talk about are Windows programs and it is so full of features as to be practically unusable on dialup. Any quick rundowns on the status anywhere? Scott Quinn

19 years, 1 month

Amstrad PCW 8256/8512

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

I obtained one of these at a computer show yesterday. I was told that the 3" disks are still available in the UK. Is this so? This page: http://www.seasip.demon.co.uk/Unix/Joyce/ states that there is a "hideous hybrid" of an upgrade that effectively turns it into an PEECEE/AT. I demand to know where I can find one. And I was aware that Mallard as in Mallard BASIC was a reference to a steam engine, cuz I'm shmott. I almost got my fingers on a "TT scale" version in kit form, but I decided not to because it wasn't after all real TT scale, but rather a decadent hideous hybrid. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 1 month

Good DOS binary file viewer?

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

Seeking recommendations for a good MSDOS/FreeDOS-compatible binary file viewer (hex / ASCII modes) to stick on my Imagedisk machine... Technically I don't actually need any editing facilities - just the viewer side would do. I think PCTools came with a reasonable one at one point, but there's probably something better out there that's downloadable... cheers Jules

19 years, 1 month

DC-600/300XL tape cart observation

by dm561＠torfree.net

---------------Original Messages: Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 09:45:08 -0700 From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> Subject: Re: DC-600/300XL tape cart observation On 26 Apr 2007 at 12:16, M H Stein wrote: >> Aside from the issue of archiving them, is it better to leave them > until needed, or should I run them through a retension occasionally > to prevent some of the problems mentioned recently? Any special > conditions for storage? >Well, obviously, a lot depends on the tape formulation itself. The job immediately before this one was a DC-6250 written in 1992. Went without a hitch. The problem tapes are "Scotch" and were written in 1986-87 and are nothing but problems. >To me "archiving" is the key. Copy the things off to another storage medium (say, CD-R) and regenerate copies every few years. It's just plain foolish to leave things to the mercy of Father Time. Cheers, Chuck ---------------Reply: I'm still curious; assuming any useful data has been archived and I just want to reuse the tapes some day, what would maximize the chances of their still being useable? Is heating them a last-ditch recovery procedure or could it be considered preventive maintenance? I assume that the 2120s, Travans etc. are prone to some of the same problems? Next question: The DC600s & 615s are Cromemco Cromix+ and UNIX system and backup tapes; those I have hardware for and they're no great loss even if they have problems. However, the 300s are for an Arete/Arix system and I no longer have any hardware that could read them nor do I know of anyone with an Arix; also, there's the usual problem that they may have confidential client data on them along with the system files, so what do I do with them? I wouldn't mind reusing the tapes but hate to erase them. Format aside, can a drive meant for DC600s read the lower coercivity DC300s? mike

19 years, 1 month

IBM 540MB old hard drive

by feldman.r＠comcast.net

Hi Jim, I'm going to the City of Chicago recycling center on Goose Island this weekend to dump some old monitors. I'll let you know if there is anything interesting there. Otherwise, as you say, the thrift stores in Chicago are worthless. I had much better luck with the dumpster out behind a local computer repair place near Northeastern Illinois University (5600 N, 3500W) until they moved. From the junk discarded, it looked like they had contracts to service copy machines and some document scanning systems, as well as PC's. You might want to leave word with places like that about what you are interested in. Bob P.S. Jim, my email to trixter at oldskool.org was bounced with the following message: The following addresses had fatal errors: trixter at oldskool.org: 550 [PERMFAIL] destination not valid within DNS Message: 7 Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 16:33:59 -0500 From: Jim Leonard <trixter at oldskool.org> Subject: Re: IBM 540MB old hard drive To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <463660C7.4090209 at oldskool.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Paxton Hoag wrote: > In Portland Oregon I would try the Free Geeks Thrift Store on 10th St > east side 2 blocks south of Hawthorn. > > In Eugene Oregon I would look at NextStep Recycling thrift store. They > often have 2 inch hard drives but I haven't looked at them. Are there any of these kinds of stores in the Chicagoland area? The only one I know of is Software Re-Runs, but that's more of a repair shop than a recycler/thrift. I have had *zero* out of at least 20 goodwill store successes (99% of the computer stuff is old VGA monitors) so that's out in this area. -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org)

19 years, 1 month

Goofy question about "industrial" archiving

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Chris M wrote: Just curious how, or even if, old design drawings and such were preserved in the old days. I could barely venture a guess as to when the first optical recording drives became "useful", all I remember is a friend obtaining one of the first (locally) cd players for his auto in ~the summer of '87. I was in contact with a few of the people who were involved w/the Mindset computer, and had hoped I would obtain info on the custom vlsi chips it used, in any form of course. This just lead me to ponder when this stuff started *appearing* on cd's and such. Can anyone name the different optical CD formats that modern readers can't work with? I know there must be a few... ------------- Billy answers: There are two parts to your question. The first is how old design drawings were preserved. In all the companies I have worked for in the last 45 years, the drawings were destroyed. Some individual copies survived. And patent applications remain. But all design drawings were destroyed as a matter of policy. That way there was no way support obligation coming up long after it was cost effective. And it makes patent challenges difficult, especially prior art arguments. Even today, most of the design archives where I work have a very limited life time. The second question is a little more logical. Early on, CDs were not well accepted. One reason was that they were rigidly defined by a document called the "Red Book" which precisely described the format, the media, the recording method and so on. To get access to the Red Book, you have to sign a conformity and privacy agreement. The technology is much more complex than that used on magnetic recording. The huge base of vendors building according to the spec has very much limited the variation of formats. And this rigidity has been kept up on the DVDs. I have seen modern readers demostrate this compatibility by modern devices reading some of the very first CDs made in the labs at Philips. While there may be some odd formats, I'm not familiar with any of them. The start up costs to create the media and OPUs prevent any but the most brave of souls >from going this way. Whereas a unique floppy or hard drive format was easy to do. Any engineer with a "better idea" could throw together a circuit and be shipping in a few months. His costs often were only one small media formatter. You can see this effect if you try to list all the different floppy formats for 8" and 5.25". There were dozens of different formats. At MPI, I remember a wall chart showing the relationship of more than 50 formats that we were shipping. Things settled down a little with the 3.5" floppies, but there were still variations floating around. And a few odd ball experiments like the 3 inch drive. MPI had a 1.6" floppy in the lab, but fortunately it died. IOmega continued to play with floppy media for years. A wonderful example is their Cricket drive - every PC collection should have one. An optimist would say the CD people learned from the floppy fiasco. A cynic would say nobody could afford to be an indiviualist. Billy

19 years, 1 month

The Univac III (in trailer) is back

by ssj152＠charter.net

Well, the Univac III is back: UNIVAC III Computer (In Storage since 1975), eBay auction Item # 2733726990. This time the starting price is $7,500 and the buy-it-now is $11,000. The URL is: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2733726990&category=1247 OK, somebody, jump right on it! :-) (Not me, I'm into LITTLE computers like PDP-11's and VAXen, with an occasional side dish of 6502 or 8085) Stuart Johnson

19 years, 1 month

Goofy question about "industrial" archiving

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Goofy question about "industrial" archiving > From: "Billy Pettit" <Billy.Pettit at wdc.com> > Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:37:19 -0700 > To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >Chris M wrote: > Just curious how, or even if, old design drawings and >such were preserved in the old days. I could barely >venture a guess as to when the first optical recording >drives became "useful", all I remember is a friend >obtaining one of the first (locally) cd players for >his auto in ~the summer of '87. I was in contact with >a few of the people who were involved w/the Mindset >computer, and had hoped I would obtain info on the >custom vlsi chips it used, in any form of course. This >just lead me to ponder when this stuff started >*appearing* on cd's and such. > Can anyone name the different optical CD formats that >modern readers can't work with? I know there must be a few... > >------------- > >Billy answers: > >There are two parts to your question. The first is how old design drawings >were preserved. In all the companies I have worked for in the last 45 >years, the drawings were destroyed. Some individual copies survived. And >patent applications remain. But all design drawings were destroyed as a >matter of policy. That way there was no way support obligation coming up >long after it was cost effective. And it makes patent challenges difficult, >especially prior art arguments. > >Even today, most of the design archives where I work have a very limited >life time. Industrial archives are varied depending on product and lifetime of the product. Most places I've been 7 years seems to be the upper limit. There are exceptions, Military and aerospace in particular. Those guys have to by contract maintain complete archive and production sets for the operating life of the program. For example the Shuttle program is 30 years old and still going and the contractors are required to keep everything until 10 years after the last flight. Thats a lot of paper, blue line, Vellum, Mylar, tapes, floppies and even CDs. If the program requires ongoing material sourcing as in spares or parts to make a new airframe those drawings must be useable as well as production methods may be described in those documents. I will not address the second question on CDs. Allison

19 years, 1 month

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