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101090 discussions

1966 Mag: Build NE-2 Neon Bulb Computer - scan available

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 12:23 PM 7/28/2007, William Donzelli wrote: >> Surgistors were very popular in the 50's as either an add-on for TV >> receivers or as part of the original chassis. > >Filled with the finest snake oil available... An old commercial for the Wuerth Tube Saver : http://www.archive.org/details/The_Big_Idea - John

18 years, 10 months

Info requested about ebay seller newbegin-antiques

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> I am looking for background to assist me evaluating this seller. arrogant greedy asshole see previous classiccmp msgs about this scumbag

18 years, 10 months

1966 Mag: Build NE-2 Neon Bulb Computer - scan available

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: 1966 Mag: Build NE-2 Neon Bulb Computer - scan available > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 23:54:18 +0100 (BST) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >> <rant> >> I'll make this vintage computer-oriented. How many people still own >> a working dishwasher/clothes washer with an integral computer that >> was manufactured over 10 years ago? When I first saw a dishwasher Maytag washer dryer pair, still in use and working fine. >> with computerized control, my reaction was "What a damned fool thing >> to do--put a computer in the absolutely worst (hot water, caustics, >> steam) environment possible. Now you can't buy them any other way. Automotive is considerably worse. Hot, humid, large temperature changes, power system that runs from 6V worst case to 18V with transients higher and it must work for 5years to be considered passably reliable. >You can see the manufacturer's point. A custom chip is a lot cheaper to >make than a cam-and-contacts timer. They can put the magic words cam and contacts have a well known failure mech, wear. Solution build it more robust, the counter to that is cost. >'computer', 'microprocessor',. 'digital', etc on the panel. And it's >harder to repair if it fails (if a mechanical timer fails, you can fix >it, if the microprocessor fails, you have to buy a new PCB from the >manufacturers, if they don't want to sell you one, you're stuffed). Most vendors want their product to work because if it doesn't there are plenty of competitors with something to offer. Allison

18 years, 10 months

1966 Mag: Build NE-2 Neon Bulb Computer - scan available

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 07:50 AM 7/27/2007, William Donzelli wrote: >The idea behind the getter is to clean up and gas that might be >trapped in the metal elements during pumpdown. A getter is really not >to clean up gases that sneak in thru the glass metal seals - the >getters just are not that effective, and as any plumber will tell you, >leaks only get bigger. Hmm, that reminds me of a lingering question in my mind. As a kid, I remember harvesting tubes from dead TVs behind the repair shop. Breaking the tube, there was often a ring at the top, U-shaped in cross-section. I seem to remember that they were filled with a powder that reacted with water, fizzing. Am I mixing up this smell-memory with playing with calcium carbide? What were common getter chemicals? - John

18 years, 10 months

Cool Find at Goodwill

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Yesterday at while at Goodwill looking in the bins I found what looked like a strange calculator. It turns out to be the keyboard (UC-2100) for a Seiko Data 2000 computer watch. Had I knew at the time I would have been on the lookout for the watch, anyway I got the keyboard for 50 cent. Also found a lot of stuff the looks like it came form a Computerland store in FL. I ended up spending close to $40 two large boxes and five very large bags full of stuff to play with. John K.

18 years, 10 months

Apple III Power Supply: Success (I think...)

by derschjo＠msu.edu

Thanks again to everyone offering suggestions for fixing my Apple III's power supply. I opted to do a wholesale replacement of the electrolytics in the power supply, since I was likely going to be removing all of them to test them anyway and there's only a handful to take care of. $9 worth of parts later, the issue seems to be resolved -- the system powers up and runs diagnostics. (Though it keeps cycling, so I don't know yet if that's another problem or normal behavior :)). The only thing I have noticed is that there's a very noticeable "hiss" noise coming from the power supply -- not sure where, exactly. Any ideas if this is normal? At the moment I have only the motherboard & 256k RAM expansion running (no keyboard or floppy drive.) Thanks again! Josh

18 years, 10 months

Reinventing the paper terminal

by silent700＠gmail.com

Well, sort-of: http://blog.scifi.com/tech/archives/2007/07/27/email_typewrite.html

18 years, 10 months

Imagedisk 1.17

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Imagedisk 1.17 > From: "dwight elvey" <dkelvey at hotmail.com> > Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 07:28:48 -0700 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > > > > >>From: "Dave Dunfield" <dave06a at dunfield.com> >> >> > Ah, the step gremlin. It's an old 765(all!!!) problem. The problem is >>when >> > the step pulse is set to minimum acceptable for the drive it's possible >>that >> > due to internal timing of the 765 it can shorten the step timing of the >> > first pulse by 1 count. If that occurs many drives seek badly and you >>get >> > read or write errors because your not where you thought you were. >> > Note: some old drives due to the lubricants turning to goo will also >>exhibit >> > this type of error. There is one solution, step slower (SRT+1). >> >>A possibility - Christial, try using SR= to set the step rate slower. >> >Hi >One other thing. Ususally one doesn't see this one but on a machine I >put together, using a different processor, on one command I was >able to beet the busy response of the controller chip. It was on only >one command but I don't recall which command. >If the PC is running the bus faster than the 765 is clocking, one can >be too quick. >I recall putting a short delay to make sure the status read was coorrect. >I know it was this because I did an experiment that I'd read it twice. >The second read was OK but not the first. >Dwight Yes, this can be the case as the 765 has a micro inside and it has a finite timing delay and that's driven off the main clock which is usually either 4 or 8mhz. Allison > >_________________________________________________________________ >http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migrati…

18 years, 10 months

Sad Story from Denver

by bmachacek＠pcisys.net

Just thought I'd pass on what happened to me this week. Early in the week I got a call from my son who said they had some kind of device that his manager was going to get rid of but thought I might be interested in getting it. He sent me a follow up email that included a couple of pictures of it. It turns out it was a Data General Eclipse computer and looked like an S-140. I called him back and told him I was interested in getting it because it was an old Data General mini computer. His manager wanted it out of the warehouse which they had dropped their lease on right away. They couldn't wait for me to come up on the week end. (I live in Colo. Springs, the unit was in a warehouse in north Denver) I told my son I could get up there as early as Thursday but Friday would be better. I needed to make arrangements at work since this would be about a 3 hour round trip just to pick it up. When I called my son on Thursday to make final arrangements, he said it was too late. The night shift maintenance crew who were cleaning up the warehouse had not been told to leave the computer there for another day. During the night they took it and a couple of old 286s and threw them in the dumpster. Then, being the efficient crew that they were and since they had filled the dumpster, they called for it to be removed. Well by the time my son's manager got to the warehouse that day, sometime after noon, everything was gone. I think this has taught me a valuable lesson which I guess most of us in the "rescue" business learn at one or another, "Don't Wait". I just wanted to share this with the board and say I won't make this mistake again. The next time I hear of an old computer that is available, I'm going to head out that same day and worry about my work getting done later. Bill Machacek Colo. Springs, CO

18 years, 10 months

MMI 6701 bit slice?

by dkelvey＠hotmail.com

>From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > >On 26 Jul 2007 at 21:59, dwight elvey wrote: > > > I'm only familiar with the 2901 and 3000. I've looked at the > > signetics 8X300 but that is more of a halfway between uController > > and bit slice. > > Dwight > >MMI's 6701 was *very* close to the 2901. There was also Moto's 10800 >ECL series and some early Fairchild (3800?) parts, as well as Intel's >3000 series (you can find that on the old MDS-800 8" floppy >controllers). > Hi When I worked at Intel, I was responsible for test of the analog board that went with the 3000 series controller board. It seemed that even at the time, most of the engineers were only digital and something like a PLL or balanced mixer were beyond them. I did find a bug on the controller cards. It seems that there was a race. It was on one of the lines from the ROMs that controlled one of the states. The problem was that the newer ROMs were getting too fast and the outputs were changing too quickly. I don't recall what was done to fix that but I thought it was interesting. I believe they added a little more delay to one of the clocks. Dwight _________________________________________________________________ http://newlivehotmail.com

18 years, 10 months

HP 1615 user/svc manual

by aek＠bitsavers.org

someone was looking for this a few weeks ago http://bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/te/01615-90904_1615A_User_Service_Man_Oct79.pdf not the greatest scans, but all I have right now.

18 years, 10 months

Mountain A/D Card?

by steve＠craftsathome.net

Hello. I found one of these (bare) cards for my Apple II, and have looked around on the web for documentation and software. I saw an old post you made about the same hardware, and was wondering if you had anything to share. Thanks.

18 years, 10 months

MMI 6701 bit slice?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: RE: MMI 6701 bit slice? > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:32:44 -0700 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On 27 Jul 2007 at 6:51, dwight elvey wrote: > >> When I worked at Intel, I was responsible for test of the analog board >> that went with the 3000 series controller board. >> It seemed that even at the time, most of the engineers were >> only digital and something like a PLL or balanced mixer were >> beyond them. > >One thing I recall about the MDS floppy controller boards is that >they ran hot as a two-buck pistol. That was probably true of most of >the bit-slice stuff of the time. That and straight 74 (not LS or AS) TTL. >Around that time, I'd heard something concerning the Intel 8272 (the >8271 was apparently a horrible botch) FDC that I've long wondered was >true or not. The 8271 was single density only and at the time the market wanted DD. Worked ok but wrong part too late. > >I'd heard that Intel started development on the 8272, but couldn't >quite pull it off, and traded the basic design to NEC in exchange for >NEC's graphics controller. NEC completed the design as the uPD 765 >and licensed it back to Intel. Is there the slightest grain of truth >to this? No. 765 was a NEC design and licensed to Intel. There were some IP trading done between NEC and intel but involved other parts like 7201 (AKA 8274) and others (micros). Back then the chip makers very incestuous. From 79 to mid 80 was a very crazy time. >The 765/8272 in any case was too late for our own development. Like >a lot of other outfits, we went with the gang on Red Hill Road for >FDCs. By then WD had been making functional (usually) 1791/1793 parts for two maybe three years. However, along the way they often would have receipe problems and were known to deliver bad parts that would not work at all. The 1793 was a complex part for it's time and for WD the only thing they did that was more complex was WD16 (microprogrammed CPU also known as LSI-11). FYI: SMC created a varient that didn't have the three voltage needs of the WD part that was also socket compatable. Allison

18 years, 10 months

cctech Digest, Vol 47, Issue 34

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

I'm not sure if this is sad or funny. I was in contact with the original owner and was possibly going to take it, but I gave up my claim because she found someone local who wanted it (you apparently). The issue is the shipping cost .... which I fear could be $50 (Ohio, 44720), these were heavy. Very heavy. My real purpose, frankly, is as possible spare parts for a (probably non-working) 1620 (the KSR keyboard version of the same basic printer). I have typewheels, ribbons (may or may not be any good) and full documentation (including the service manuals)(although I'm not sure that I know where they are). Any idea on the shipping cost to Ohio, 44720? By the way, the 1610/1620 does have software handshaking (ETX/ACK), and if you short a jumper on the CPU board, it's serial interface runs at 1,200 baud. In that case, you MUST use ETX/ACK handshaking, but it will print at 45 cps instead of 30 cps (and I seem to recall that it does bidirectional printing in that mode also, if the next line has been fully received). The difference is quite significant. Thanks, Barry Watzman Watzman at neo.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:22:04 -0700 From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> Subject: AVAILABLE: Diable 1610 Hytype DW printer I went ahead and picked up the Diablo 1610 printer from the local party here who was trying to find a home for it. Now I want to give it a home... I checked it out--it works just fine and includes several typewheels (all various flavors of Courier) and ribbons as well as the operator's manual. Includes forms tractor. In pretty good condition for a 30 year old printer. This is an RO (no keyboard) model in charcoal color skins. Serial interface 110-300 baud w no handshake; 1200 using ETX/ACK. Free for shipping from Eugene, OR. Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 10 months

Manual needed ... Dual Systems Control Corp memory board

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

Anyone have documentation for a Dual Systems Control Corp (later acquired by NorthStar) DMEM-256k memory board?

18 years, 10 months

Magazines taken!

by nerdware＠ctgonline.org

Thank you. -- Paul Braun Valparaiso, IN "There's a fine line between stupid, and clever." - David St. Hubbins "Enjoy every sandwich." - Warren Zevon "The Fountain of Youth is a state of mind." - The Ides of March

18 years, 10 months

info wanted on CompuPro 10 series

by jack.rubin＠ameritech.net

I've been offered a couple "late model" CompuPro Systems - a 10+ and an MP310 - but I don't know anything about these "new" systems; all my experience was with the pure S100 stuff, from early Econoram through the 816 systems. Can anyone provide details on anything in the 10 series? Were these still based on S100 cards (though with switching power supplies?) or were they some sort of single-board attempt at survival? Thanks - Jack No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.22/922 - Release Date: 7/27/2007 6:08 AM

18 years, 10 months

5 boxes of magazines available - Pickup NW Indiana/Chicago only

by nerdware＠ctgonline.org

Hello. I'm finally down to the end of my collection - all of the hardware has gone to good homes (except my 128k Mac and my Amigas. Love my Amigas.) I have 5-50lb boxes of Byte, going back to the '70's, as well as Information Age and probably a few Dr. Dobbs' thrown in somewhere. There are also a couple of boxes of miscellaneous books and documentation. I don't want to just pitch this stuff, but I also really don't want to go through the hassle of packing and shipping 300lbs of paper. I live in NW Indiana, about 45 minutes East of Chicago. First person to email me off-list (has to be off-list, since I unsubbed a while ago) who can come down in a fairly short amount of time and pick this stuff up gets it. I ask for nothing, except maybe to buy me lunch. If I don't hear from anyone by the end of next week, it's going in the trash. I hate to do that, but I need the space. Thanks! -- Paul Braun Valparaiso, IN "There's a fine line between stupid, and clever." - David St. Hubbins "Enjoy every sandwich." - Warren Zevon "The Fountain of Youth is a state of mind." - The Ides of March

18 years, 10 months

Read error correction in software

by cclist＠sydex.com

A little background on the subject... I'm working with a number of old 100 TPI 5.25" HS diskettes and a catweasel to read them. The data encoding is plain MFM and thus far, the whole project involving some 27-year old media is going pretty well, considering the age and condition of the media. Occasionally, I'll pick up a data error (no big surprise). According to what I've been able to determine from the CW output, most of the errors involve extraneous noise in the read output. In other words, if the normal pulse timings for MFM are 0.5 1.0 and 1.5 cell-time units, a pulse will sometimes be seen that occurs less than 0.25 time unit from the previous one. The CW output is essentially a bunch of 7 bit numbers that express the number of clocks seen since the last pulse was read. My original thought was to ignore each noise pulse by adding its clock-count value to that of the next pulse that comes along. In other words, if I get a stream of pulses with clock counts of, say, 10 20 30 20 5 15 10..., I'd skip the 5 pulse and convert the 15 to a 20. This doesn't work well. While it's better than acually counting the extraneous pulse as a data pulse, much better results are obtained if the pulse is simply ignored and the next pulse clock-count is used as- is without "correction". Does anyone know why this would be? I can't rationalize it. Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 10 months

Wange PC in Windsor, Ontario

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-1984-WANG-COMPLETE-PC-XC3-2 -SYSTEM-WORKING_W0QQitemZ220133233591QQihZ012QQ categoryZ1247QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem I do not recommend exercising the b-i-n option though, despite the promise of free shipping. oi ____________________________________________________________________________________ Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/norton/index.php

18 years, 10 months

AVAILABLE: Diable 1610 Hytype DW printer

by cclist＠sydex.com

I went ahead and picked up the Diablo 1610 printer from the local party here who was trying to find a home for it. Now I want to give it a home... I checked it out--it works just fine and includes several typewheels (all various flavors of Courier) and ribbons as well as the operator's manual. Includes forms tractor. In pretty good condition for a 30 year old printer. This is an RO (no keyboard) model in charcoal color skins. Serial interface 110-300 baud w no handshake; 1200 using ETX/ACK. Free for shipping from Eugene, OR. Cheers, Chuck

18 years, 10 months

Read error correction in software

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: RE: Read error correction in software > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:50:27 -0700 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On 26 Jul 2007 at 6:40, dwight elvey wrote: > >> Your right, not too good on multiple errors. > >Actually, on MFM, not even that good for single errors. Recall that >the CRC on a 256-byte sector is the 257th and 258th byte of the >sector. So, if an MFM error throws the data stream off, you don't >even get a valid CRC to work with. And MFM data errors can result in >data shifting and clock data "swapping". It might have been a whole >'nother story had the convention been that the CRC precedes the data. > >I've got some ideas about simulating a PLL-type clock in my routines >developing bit cell "windows" instead of relying on the pulse-to- >pulse spacing. The latter, while being very adaptable to ISV-type >errors, is lousy for recovery of regular data errors. If you implement a software PLL the key function is in the face of a missing pulse you keep the current clock rate and clock in a zero or or one as needed to fill the stream. The usual analog PLL tend to have an idle rate and lacking a error signal it will either retain the current rate or hunt back to the center rate. Since in a corrstly set PLL the error rate and the centered rate are not widely seperated drift is rarely a factor short term. Allison

18 years, 10 months

MMI 6701 bit slice?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: MMI 6701 bit slice? > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:47:31 -0700 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >There's been a lot of chatter about the AMD 2901 series bit-slice. >Does anyone recall any system that employed the MMI 6701 series? > >Cheers, >Chuck CM2000, 2100 and CM2100 CM stands for Cininatti Millichron a 16bit Mini, used one around 73-74. There were others but cant recall which. Allison

18 years, 10 months

Imagedisk 1.17

by oldcpu＠rogerwilco.org

Dave Dunfield said: > A few days back I posted ImageDisk 1.17 to the site, and it's just > been reported (and confirmed) that it had a bug which causes it to > write images incorrectly (fortunately it appears to read them > correctly). > > I've corrected the problem and updated the package - if you have > downloaded 1.17 before today, please download it again. > > I've also restored Imagedisk 1.16 to the site, listing it as the > last known stable release, so that people won't be left hanging if > (when) something like this happens again. > > ...snip... > > It's annoying to invest time to do someone a favor (that they asked for) only > to find out that they consider their own time too valuable to follow up their > part - I'm sure Chuck will tell me that this is one of the reasons he finally > told people to shove Teledisk beyond the reach of solar illumination... > </rant> > > If anyone can help check out 1.17, that would be much appreciated. I for one am mighty grateful for the actual usefulness of IMageDisk and want to just through my .02 cents into the hat. It's a shame that your recent 'extra' efforts weren't/aren't properly acknowledged, and that the follow-through from the other side hasn't +happened. Still, please regard me as an appreciative user of IMageDisk. In recent months, I have processed nearly 450 floppies from my old MS-DOS days, as well as a set of CP/M and other development tools for my quite obscure, but not particularly noteworthy, Novell Data Systems 2010, a Z80A-based machine. I was becoming very, very nervous about the stability of those old NDS 2010 diskettes (not used since c.1982), and breathed a huge sigh of relief when I got all of those floppies imaged and burned to CD-ROM. Unfortunately, I've just finished my 'imaging project' using IMD 1.16, so I don't have much to test with 1.17. Still, my hand is extended to you for producing, *and maintaining*, such a useful tool for vintage collectors. Many thanks! - Jared

18 years, 10 months

broadcast automation yahoo group

by n8uhn＠yahoo.com

Hi, i finally got around to starting a yahoo group called "broadcast automation" http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BroadcastAutomation a place to share memories, photo's, repair tip's and general knowledge about vintage and not so vintage broadcast automation and other broadcast radio/tv gear. the group is geared toward collectors but all are welcome to join. like i said, i just created the group so the page/remailer is rough but as people join and post it can only grow ;-) please let anyone else who may be interested know about the new group Bill ____________________________________________________________________________________ Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow

18 years, 10 months

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test-drb