- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> Hello Philip, > I have some keys and access to key blanks used in older electronic > equipment. > If you send me a tracing or photocopy of your key I might be able to > match it. Thank you, David. At the moment, I have one system and one key, so a spare is not totally essential. When I am reduced to sending all the way to the US for a replacement, I'll let you know... Philip.

28 years, 8 months

1
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DEC keys (was: DEC keys and consoles)

by ard＠siva.bris.ac.uk

>> Thanks for the information. I'll try to get a copy of the cylindrical >> key made using the key code. The end of the key is broken off inside >> the keylock on the 11/10, so my best course of action here might be to >> extract the part that is inside the lock and have a duplicate made from that. > >Might work. Alternatively, does the lock with the broken bit of key >turn with a screwdriver? You can also dismantle the lock from the front panel (remove the frontpanel >from the rest of the machine, unscrew the microswtich assy, and frob the retaining clip) and pull out the wafers with pliers. Reassemble it without the wafers, and you can operate it with a screwdriver. That's what I had to do to my 11/10 and GT40, alas. Alternatively, if you can find a blank that fits, it would be possible to cut the notches in the appropriate places until the wafers line up with the cylinder edge, and make a key that way. > >I have yet to find anyone who will duplicate my 11/10 key... Err, a strip of metal and a milling machine? :-) > >Philip. -tony

28 years, 8 months

1
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Classic Computer Rescue - A Story

by danjo＠xnet.com

The Great Galesburg, Illinois Rescue Saturday August 2, 1997 - 07:00 The alarm went off and I lept up from bed. Today was The Day. The Illinois arm of the Classic Computer Rescue Squad was to make it's first Rescue! First to the net to see if plans had changed. Nope - looking good! I make my first pot of coffee (don't you love those Bunn's?) and start by cleaning out the van. Saturday August 2, 1997 - 08:45 Well, that was something I hadn't seen in almost two years - the floor of my van I mean. Well, what's left of it. A little history. The van cost me $1 about four years ago. When I bought it >from my buddy's brother, he turned around and paid my buddy the dollar he owed him for the van from two years before that 8-) The main problem is that this thing just keeps running. Anyway, after examining the two foot square hole in the floor, I decided a piece of plywood would do nicely. Into the house to make a pot of coffee for the road. And my buddy calls. We have this understanding when either of us is about to do something stupid, we just know about it. No we don't try to talk each other out of it, we just like to know what is going on 8-) Saturday August 2, 1997 - 09:09 Finally ready to hit the road. Gas up the van, check the front right tire. Already thru the fourth ply of a four ply - eight ply rating! Ah well that's why you have a spare. I believe E-250's where made to run with a load! Man is this thing noisy and jumpy with with NO load! Saturday August 2, 1997 - 10:00 Well, that klacking sound is back! Time to throw in another guart of oil! Nope - better make it two! Quick check - nope the radiator ain't leaking any more. Saturday August 2, 1997 - 11:00 We both have to go REAL bad! Oh look - a rest stop. Both the van and I relieve ourselves. The van didn't leak all THAT bad! Back to the road. Saturday August 2, 1997 - 11:30 Heading south into Galesburg, IL on I-74. Why don't they TELL people they are ripping up the road? Saturday August 2, 1997 - about 12:00 somthing. Well, it looks like I am the last here. The directions were impecable! The roads where impassable 8-) Partial list (to be modified) 2 - 11/44 1 - VT-52 3 - RA81 1 - TE16 1 - RSTS Manual set 1 - VAX Ver. 4.0 Manual set 1 - Set of Field Service docs - Mixed 1 - Set of upgrade tapes - DEC Tape II and - what do you call those reels? 1 - 1/4 ton of spares, failures, cables, and Etc. We did however lose the 11/750 8-( Apparently a professor had wanted a 19" rack and his students chose the 11/750 as the doner! The guts were exposed to a fate that I abhore - The Trashman! I think a good time was had by all. At least while we were at Galesburg. We had no time to do lunch 8-( And we tried to split the equipment up as I was planning to run over to Peoria and drop off anything those guys couldn't fit. I still don't believe thay ACTUALLY fit 2 11/44s and a RA81 into a minivan! Saturday August 2, 1997 - about 16:00 As the Campus Police drive by we all say our farewells. Everybody is running late so we can't continue our discussions of computers, education, and life in general 8-( I fill up the van with water - don't even look at the tire (too afraid) and I set off to drive the impassable I-74 once again. Saturday August 2, 1997 - about 18:00 Well, I got a table from my buddy - but not the hardware (that way I have an excuse to run over to his place 8-) so I pull off I-55 to run over. Sure enough - Il 59 is all ripped up! As I stop for the traffic light - PANG! I thought I lost the rear spring - but no. After 360 miles that poor little tire had let go at the light. God takes care of Fools and Idiots - I am so glad I belong to both sets! So I pull off and put on my spare - in record time I might add! You guys ever hear of Dry Rot? That tire got me home but only after throwing off about a third of its tread! So after picking up the hardware for the table, watching "Kingpins" at my buddies, and cruising at about 30 for the last 16 miles - I got home - tired, worn out, but safe. Now this weekend I have to go to.... BC

28 years, 8 months

4
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Fwd: Free TVs,etc

by mpsayler＠cs.utexas.edu

Perhaps someone would be interested in the Lisa gear? Path: cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!slip-90-7.ots.utexas.edu!user From: epotter(a)mail.utexas.edu (EPotter) Newsgroups: austin.forsale Subject: Free TVs,etc Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 11:31:47 +0100 Organization: The University of Texas at Austin Lines: 3 Distribution: austin Message-ID: <epotter-0408971131470001(a)slip-90-7.ots.utexas.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: slip-90-7.ots.utexas.edu Xref: cs.utexas.edu austin.forsale:104815 Two 25" heathkit TVs, working, with one extra chassis for parts. Large and heavy, wood cabinets, not fibreboard, need grill cloth. Also several Lisa keyboards, Lisa manuals, misc. all free, you haul it off.

28 years, 8 months

1
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Honeywell Microsystem 6

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> Hi! > > I recently picked up one of these beasts at a second-hand store, and > managed to assemble her and get her running. However, I have been unable > to find out anything about them other than they run the 8086 processor. Can > anyone tell me something more? Like what the OS is, when they were made, > and what tehir arcitecture was? Honeywell, unsuprisingly, couldn't help, > and I found nothing on the web. Um. I don't recognise the name, but there were some early Honeywell PC type things called "Microsystem Executive". This was a design bought by Honeywell after the British company responsible, Future Technology Systems, went bust. The FTS series 86 was sold as the "Non-compatible compatible". OS was a version of CPM-86 with MS-DOS compatibility, multitasking, and one or two other fun features, called Concurrent DOS, and sold by a software house whose name I can't remember (Pegasus? Something beginning with P, I think). Despite its PC-incompatibility - architecture quite different at the hardware level - Lotus 123 version 1 ran without modification, and even drew graphs on the monchrome monitor... I have an FTS 86 somewhere. It was far too expensive, even tho' my father got a huge discount for not suing FTS for breach of contract when they failed to maintain our Series 88 machines. After FTS folded, Honeywell-Bull maintained it for a while; they gave that up at about the time Honeywell sold the rest of their computer arm to Bull group. More than that I can't remember, offhand. If you want more info, I'll see what I can find, but it won't be much... Philip. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Das Feuer brennt, das Feuer nennt die Luft sein Schwesterelement - und frisst sie doch (samt dem Ozon)! Das ist die Liebe, lieber Sohn. Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk

28 years, 8 months

1
0
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Who wanted my book?

by manney＠nwohio.com

I offered a book, "Assembly Language Programming for the 8080/8085"; someone said he wanted it. Who? (I lost the reply). Thanks manney(a)nwohio.com

28 years, 8 months

1
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DEC keys (was: DEC keys and consoles)

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> Thanks for the information. I'll try to get a copy of the cylindrical > key made using the key code. The end of the key is broken off inside > the keylock on the 11/10, so my best course of action here might be to > extract the part that is inside the lock and have a duplicate made from that. Might work. Alternatively, does the lock with the broken bit of key turn with a screwdriver? When I tried to get my 11/10 console key duplicated, the locksmith didn't even know of a source of blanks. This is the same locksmith who copied keys on restricted blanks (which he had in stock) that operated bits of power station equipment from the 1950s. I have yet to find anyone who will duplicate my 11/10 key... Philip.

28 years, 8 months

2
1
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DEC keys and consoles

by carl.friend＠stoneweb.com

On Sun, 3 Aug 1997 09:44:26 -0800 (PDT), Mr. Shoppa mentions: > 1. The metal cylinder-lock keys. These are found on -8's, most > older (pre 11/24, 11/44, 11/84, 11/94) Unibux -11's, and some other > boxes. These are standard ACE cylinder keys, with pattern # XX2247. Other boxes: VAX-11/780, VAX-11/750, PDP-12, LINC-8 for starters. I'm positive there are others. Like the pdp11/40 KL-10 front-end... > you may need to be friendly with the locksmith - almost all ACE keys > are stamped "DO NOT DUPLICATE" If you produce the lock that the key is for, I believe the smith's objection may be moot. I've got several copies floating around that fit every DEC machine in my collection. They're not hard to come by. I believe the "DO NOT DUPLICATE" is valid only if you can't prove you own the matching lock. > The non-cylinder keys, found on only a few CPU boxes (like the 11/10). > I don't know where to find these... Again, take the lock mechanism to a good locksmith; he'll be able to make a new key for it by examining the tumblers. Of course, as in your case the key is broken off in the cylinder, the smith's job will be _much_ easier. ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | |________________________________________________|_____________________|

28 years, 8 months

1
0
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DEC keys and consoles

by ard＠siva.bris.ac.uk

>There are three sorts of commonly-found DEC keys: > >1. The metal cylinder-lock keys. These are found on -8's, most older (pre Didn't the 8/a have a PDP11/34-style knob for the power switch and no key at all? >11/24, 11/44, 11/84, 11/94) Unibux -11's, and some other boxes. These >are standard ACE cylinder keys, with pattern # XX2247. Any competent >locksmith ought to be able to make one of these for you (though you >may need to be friendly with the locksmith - almost all ACE keys are >stamped "DO NOT DUPLICATE"). > >2. The plastic cylinder keys. As of a few months ago, you could still >order these from DECDirect (1-800-DIGITAL) - the part number is 1217119-01. In my experience, key [1] will fit locks designed for key [2], but not vice versa. I use the XX2247 that came with my 11/45 for the 11/45, the 8/e, the DECSA, the 11/24, the 11/44, the 11/730, etc. Since lock [2] has no pins, probably just about any Ace tubular key will fit it. Lock [1] is a 'real' lock, however. >> Also, I'm looking for information on connecting a console to the 11/10. >> The only place on this machine that looks like a likely candidate for >> console connection is a double height module (an M9970 Berg backplane >> connector) that is essentially unpopulated except for traces connecting >> the backplane to a single Berg connector. Is this the serial interface? >> If so, are there any configuration options (on another board), or am I >> stuck using what I assume is a fixed 110 baud 20 mA current loop interface >> (or digging up something else, such as a DL11-W)? > >I'm not sure what the answer to this is. I thought the standard >console interface on a 11/10 was a DL11-W. Have you tried asking >on "vmsnet.pdp-11" on Usenet? Not at all : Both the 11/10 and 11/10S have a console port on the CPU board. On the 11/10S it's possible to disable this (fit/remove a link on one of the boards), and use a DL11 of some flavour instead. On the 5.25" box, the console port is the 40-pin BERG on the back of the CPU under the power cable. It's cabled to the backplane, where it is connected to the appropriate pins on the CPU board. I don't own a 10.5" 11/10, but I have worked on one. From memort, there is, indeed a dual-height card which contains the console connector (40 pin BERG) and no logic. Can't remember the M-number, and my prints are at home. It's the standard DEC serial connector. Current loop is certainly there, and I think at least one of the TTL and/or EIA connections are there as well. This may depend on which CPU board set you have, however. I seem to recall pinouts/cable lists are on one of the PDP_8_ web sites. 11/10's use an RC clock for the baud rate generator. It's tweakable by a preset on one of the boards - check it at pin 40 of the UART (the only 40 pin chip in the CPU), and set to 16 times the baud rate. I think the 11/10S uses an Xtal clock, and there's a switch to set standard rates. The RC clock does 110 baud as standard, but can be tweaked at least to 300 baud. You can change (reduce) the timing capacitor to get higher rates, of course. > >Tim. -tony

28 years, 8 months

2
1
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Mainframe FS

by idavis＠comland.com

I don't know how old this is, or if it qualifies as classic, but I saw this on the local austin.forsale newsgroup. ============================================== Subject: Mainfame for trade STILL!!! From: Scratch <scratch(a)tab.com> Date: 1997/07/28 Message-Id: <33DCB872.6B74(a)tab.com> Newsgroups: austin.forsale [More Headers] I have a UNYSIS 2200/400 mainframe with 1210lpm impact printer and 6' hard disk tower with 10- 8" 1 gig Fujitsu drives. I can't seem to sell it so I will offer to trade it for anything MAC. QuadraAV or better. Or Sony 17" + monitor. -- Ron E. Marks scratch(a)tab.com http://www.tab.com/~scratch/home.html Austin, Texas ============================================ Hope this helps someone. Isaac Davis | Don't throw out that old computer, idavis(a)comland.com | check out the Classic Computer Rescue List - indavis(a)juno.com | http://www.comland.com/~idavis/classic/classic.html

28 years, 8 months

5
7
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MicroVAXen rescue

by kyrrin＠wizards.net

At 00:02 03-08-97 PDT, you wrote: >Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 06:46:19 -0400 >From: Jeff Hellige <jeffh(a)unix.aardvarkol.com> >To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu >Subject: MicroVax II >Message-ID: <199708021046.GAA13569(a)unix.aardvarkol.com> >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Well, it looks like I may be rescuing, or at least try to, a >MicroVax II on monday. There is a local business, about 30 miles from here, >that wants to dispose of one, and I got contacted to try and rescue it. >According to the guy I talked to, it has 2-35meg HD's, and 5meg of RAM in >it, and I'd just be getting the main system unit. Could someone give me >some general info on this machine, such as a guess as to the weight of it? Weight: About 40-50 lbs. Not bad at all, really. Some PC full-towers tip the scales around there. Sizewise, they're about as tall as a full-tower, but deeper and skinnier. You can probably lift one in your arms without a huge problem. With the hardware that's in it, you could easily run OpenVMS, MicroVMS, regular VMS (I think -- someone check me on that, please?), Ultrix, or NetBSD. I know the guy I wrote to said there were no docs or diags with it, but... if by some miracle he was wrong, I'd like to get a copy of any diagnostics that you might get with it. Best of luck, and thanks for responding! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 8 months

3
3
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Televideo TS1603

by dastar＠crl.com

I got a nice system for free today from a nice old couple who run a thrift shop that they are closing down. Its a Televideo 1603. What's interesting about this system for one thing is that it was made by Televideo, whom I thought only made terminals. It has two 5.25" floppies integrated with a green monochrome monitor on a swivel armature and a detached keyboard. On the back are two DB-25 serial ports, a D-type connector RS-422 port, a telephone jack for a mouse (which I didn't get), and two dipswitch blocks. Inside it has an 8088 and a 6502! I was talking to Doug Coward tonight about it and he suggested that the 6502 was for the terminal operation, and the 8088 was actually the main processor. This makes sense, but I was wondering if anyone knew more about it. When it boots it says on the top line of the screen: TS-1600/1603/1603H POWER ON DIAGNOSTICS Z2.2 then it says below that: RAM TEST IN PROGRESS..... then changes to: FLOPPY DRIVE TEST IN PROGRESS..... at which point it turns on the floppy drive for a few seconds, then goes to: WAITING FOR HARD DISK..... Inside there is a multi-pin connector which I'd assumed was for a hard-drive but there was no cable for it. I didn't write down the number on the WD controller chip. I think perhaps the RS-422 port is where you'd hook the hard drive to. Anyway, after it doesn't find a hard drive, it clears the screen and becomes just a dumb terminal. Doug suggested I try booting an old version of DOS or CP/M+ on it. Any information on this would be appreciated. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 8 months

3
3
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Warehouse Sale...

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

Well went out there and picked through stuff again... Lets see today's tab was $30 for: 2 monitors (1702 & CM-141, both Commodore color composite/split composite) early VIC-20 (with the older 9v only adapter) Jupiter Lander Cart for VIC-20 Commodore 4022 Tractor Printer (IEEE-488) Commodore 4040 dual disk drive Commodore PC-40 III enclosure (still has motherboard (drives have been removed) Box o' cables & stuff including IEEE-488 cables, video cables, serial cables, a couple epoxy brick supplies, a pair of atari paddles and a pair of atari driving controllers. There is still have at least a dozen PETs there but I havent the space for more (hopefully I'll make more room before the sale is over...) Also a bunch of 1702s and CM141s, and lots of 64s, VIC-20s and 1541s... Other computers of note... No apple ][s Enrico, and I saw someone pick up the two ][c's for $5 each. There were a couple Compupro 8/somethings.. They looked heavy (given one was opened and I saw one of the biggest transformers I have ever seen), had a about 8 or ten of cards in it... the Osbornes are still there... ALOT of stuff, more then I could report. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- On a side note, recently I have been fortunate in finding alot of low density disks (5.25 and 3.5") at thrift stores for less then I can get them bulk (from $1 to $2 a package of 10 or more), many of which haven't even been used. Those of us with computers requiring such disks sould make sure to check for them during your thrift shopping. :) Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 8 months

2
1
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Televideo TS1603

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<recollection that 422 and 423 are the same, and 423 definitely is <balanced rs-232, unless I'm completely off). RS422 is balanced pair, 423 is a subset of 232 usually used with RJ style connectors. Allison

28 years, 8 months

1
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Free Computer Books & Stuff!

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 08:23 PM 7/26/97 -0700, you wrote: >TRS-80 Model 100 Manuals: >These are photocopies of the originals but are bound together like real >manuals. Service Manual, Owner's Manual and 2 little Quick Reference >manuals. >Shipping is $2.25 book rate. If these are still available, I'd love to take them off your hands! (I have three m100's and only 1 owner's manual; none of the others.) Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 8 months

6
6
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Litton Industries's Monrobot XI?

by dbetz＠xlisper.mv.com

Has anyone ever heard of the Litton Industries's Monrobot XI? It's the first computer I ever programmed. This was back around 1967. It was a machine built into a desk with an electric typewriter and a papertape reader. I'd love to find one or any information about them. I've got an old programming card for Quickcomp, an assembly level language for it but that's all. I'd also like to find an IBM 1620 although that machine is probably too big for the space I have available. -- David Betz dbetz(a)xlisper.mv.com DavidBetz(a)aol.com (603) 472-2389

28 years, 8 months

1
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CLASSICCMP digest 132

by kyrrin＠wizards.net

At 00:02 02-08-97 PDT, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 13:43:28 +0000 >From: jpero(a)mail.cgo.wave.ca >To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu >Subject: SCSI to SMD convertor board? was: Re: Mainframe FS >Message-ID: <199708011741.NAA13904(a)mail.cgocable.net> >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > >Well, I ask: > >Does there is a device already invented to use common SCSI to drive >SMD drives in between? <snip> Not foolish at all! ;-) There is indeed at least one SCSI/SMD bridge board I know of. Adaptec made them, but they're not easy to find. Model number was ACB-5580. I have exactly ONE of these that I need to hang onto to test drives. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 8 months

3
3
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MicroVax II

by jeffh＠unix.aardvarkol.com

Well, it looks like I may be rescuing, or at least try to, a MicroVax II on monday. There is a local business, about 30 miles from here, that wants to dispose of one, and I got contacted to try and rescue it. According to the guy I talked to, it has 2-35meg HD's, and 5meg of RAM in it, and I'd just be getting the main system unit. Could someone give me some general info on this machine, such as a guess as to the weight of it? Thanks. Jeff jeffh(a)unix.aardvarkol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

28 years, 8 months

2
1
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Impossible? Not!

by kyrrin＠wizards.net

Someone sent me an E-mail not long ago that, in a very confident tone, advised me that my quest to find an RRD40 or RRD50 would fail, as the controllers were 'impossible' to find. Never say 'Impossible!' to a technoid. ;-) I just closed a deal for TWO RRD40 CD drives, one controller, cabling, and technical manual, all for $65 + shipping & COD charge. As a point of interest, another company out of Chico, CA offered me an RRD50 for $40, and a controller for $125! (sheesh!) I've told them (politely) no, thanks, on the controller. However, it occurs to me that there may not be any difference in the controller for the RRD40 and RRD50. Allison or Tim? Is this, in fact, a true statement? Can either drive be used with the M7552 controller? If so, I'll just order the drive from them and hunt around for another controller later. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

TRS-80 Info

by jeffh＠unix.aardvarkol.com

At 07:52 AM 8/1/97 -0600, you wrote: >That machine is an 80186! (Nope, that's not a typo.) It's really not >'IBM' compatible, although it runs MS-DOS 2. That machine obviously must >have the color card, if it comes with the CM-1 (I'd love one of those.) >The 2k sported several big enhancements over the PC. The faster 186, 720k >floppies (DSQD), 600x400x16colors, full 16 bit expansion slots. Overall >it's a really cool machine. That's probably why it didn't survive. As long as programmers used BIOS calls instead of writing directly to the video hardware and such, the 2k would run a lot of PC software just fine. I've got a list around here somewhere of what PC software was known to work with it. I ran the basic PC versions of Wordstar and Norton Utilities on mine for a long time, though things such as Framework required special video drivers. Also, communications programs didn't like the machine, unless they used a fossil driver to access the serial port, such as GTPower. I enjoyed making new fonts for the machine to boot into, as it's system font was loaded into RAM on startup, making it quite customizable. As for the CM-1, that is one nice monitor. I never could find one though, so I ended up using an early NEC Multisync on mine for a while. >Some had a hard drive. If it was factory installed, the nameplate should >read 'Model 2000HD.' You might also look for any labelling on the back. >The HD controller might have some sort of stickers on it. (The cards are >the long, 1/2" high metal strips on the back.) My 2k started life as a dual-floppy model, and then I added a Seagate ST-225 internally later. I was kind of a pain finding the piggyback hard disk power supply and mounting bracket for the drive though! I also had the color video board, 640k RAM, and a clock/mouse board. Jeff jeffh(a)unix.aardvarkol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

28 years, 8 months

1
0
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Boards I bought.

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

For $18 I got... a DW11-A Unibus to Q-Bus interface! One quad height and one double height board. I'm assuming the Quad-height one is the Unibus end. All I need are the ribbon cables to connect them... and an M8012-YA Qbus Terminator/Bootstrap. What does this boot?

28 years, 8 months

3
4
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Boards I bought.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Mr Seagraves finds... <and an M8012-YA Qbus Terminator/Bootstrap. What does this boot? It has diags and boot for RK05, RL01/2, RX01, RX02, BDV11 roms(optional) and DECNET boot via DLV11e/f or DUV11. This assumes 23-045E2/23-046E2 EProms. Allison

28 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Warehouse Sale and PCjr query.

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

RE: Enrico's Query about Apple IIs... I looked the first time I went to the sale and found mainly ][ pluses, a couple ][es (one with extended keyboard, a couple ][cs, and a few ]I[s... But If I see a ][, I'll see about getting it... RE: Marvin about PCjr help... I think the customer has a PCjr or Two and is looking for expansion stuff and programs for it... I dunno, best I could suggest to her was an area thrift store which always seems to have PCjrs coming in... :/ Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 8 months

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Some machines available...

by kevan＠motiv.co.uk

Hi all, I recently got an email offering me these computers... > If you ship it you can have them. I havev one of the largest > commulations of computers and related in the north east US. I am culling > out so this is an opportunity to get lots of stuff. How about the whole > line of IBM xt, at ps2 model 30, 55, 50 , 50z,70 just to name a few > come over or call or email me. holmstea(a)idt.net 802-985-8081 I am in > Vermont.USA I said I wasn't interested and in reply I got: > forgive me for being so presumptious I have also Heith H8 a DPS6 a > Charles River Universe 68, Nec starlets cpm, digital rainbows. digital > RAO80 zilog 8000 IBM system 36's lots more!!! If anybody is interested then contact him directly. -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/

28 years, 8 months

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Weekend haul

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >The SX-64 documentation makes reference to a DX-64. What's that -- 2 drives?< That was the plan; however, the DX model was never released. There are reports of a few of them floating around, but probably prototypes or user-hacked versions.

28 years, 8 months

1
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Hacking TI Calculator Interface

by rcini＠msn.com

On Thu, 31 Jul 1997 08:52:36 -0400 (EDT) John Ruschmeyer wrote: >>Two places to check out: http://www.ticalc.org news:bit.listserv.calc-ti I beleive there are plans floating around for a $5 interface cable. Also, lots of 3rd party apps for the '85.<< John: Thanks for the tip; I'll check it out. Last night, for those hardware-hackers out there, I started developing a level shifter using a Maxxim MAX232 chip which draws power from the DSR line and has a couple of low-power LED indicators. I'm just trying to fit it into a DB9 shell... ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET e-mail: rcini(a)msn.com - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Netowrking

28 years, 8 months

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Model 100 Stuff: What's a DVI

by rcini＠msn.com

To all of those that asked what the Model 100 DVI is... Ths Disk-Video Interface is a rectangular box (mostly hollow), the size of half of a PC which enables the Model 100 to use 5-1/4" floppy disks and to hook-up to a standard composite monitor or a TV on channel 3 or 4. It could display 40x24 or 80x24 characters. Costing around $500, the unit typically (and I'd have to dig-out an old catalog to check; it's been a while) came with 1 or 2 floppy disk drives and had a built-in power supply. The companion monitor (an optional-extra) was a composite green-screen. The included diskette was for a simple disk-based DOS wedge for BASIC. Connection to the M100 was accomplished through a shielded, flat, 40-pin ribbon cable with a custom pin arangement that attached to the 40-pin DIP socket on the bottom of the M100. The standard DIP socket on the M100 was retrofitted with a ZIF socket to ease the stress on the cable. The insulation-displacement connector on the M100 side pearced the cable in a non-standard way, preventing meer mortals from making a cable on their own with parts from Digi-Key--I tried! BTW, replacements are $24 from Tandy Parts. As an aside, DOS disks are $5. As far as I know, the DVI came out before the other floppy drives for the M100, the PDD1 and PDD2. I hope that this clears things up. ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET e-mail: rcini(a)msn.com - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Netowrking

28 years, 8 months

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Free Computer Books & Stuff!

by gmast＠polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu

Still cleaning the closets. I'll be posting more stuff like this off and on for a while as I sort. All this stuff is free of charge! Of course you pay postage to where you live unless you want to drive to central California. TRS-80 Model 100 Manuals: These are photocopies of the originals but are bound together like real manuals. Service Manual, Owner's Manual and 2 little Quick Reference manuals. Shipping is $2.25 book rate. Apple Lot: Critic's Guide to Software for Apple and Compatible Computers Apple II Super Serial Card Manual Apple II 80-Column Text Card Manual Extended 80-Column Text Card Supplement Apple II The DOS Manual Applesoft II Basic Programming Reference Manual Shipping is $4.25 book rate Commodore Geos Lot: Looks like a set of GEOS 2.0 and 1.2 Manuals for 1.2 and 2.0 Deskpak Plus (six applications for GEOS) Deskpak Manual 25 Blank 5-1/4 disks Shipping is $2.75 book rate

28 years, 8 months

1
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First Annual Vintage Computer Festival

by dastar＠crl.com

I've decided to go ahead with plans for the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival!!! This is a call to all parties interested in participating with the planning and development of the show. I have directed this e-mail to specific individuals in my local area (sorry if I missed anyone) as well as to the entire classiccmp group. I welcome your support and would appreciate if you who are local could pledge your help in developing and participating in the show. I also welcome and would appreciate the support of anyone not local to the San Francisco Bay Area who is interested in donating your time to the show. Please contact me if you are interested. I hope to assemble the core development team within the next week and to hold a kick-off party on Saturday, August 9th where a team will be assembled, the project will be discussed and team members will be assigned tasks. I am hoping to run the show during a weekend in the middle of October. Currently, as I have it layed out, there are a couple hundred man hours of work to be done in order to pull this off. I think with enough people committed, this can be pulled off in time to host the show by October. Please e-mail me if interested. Thanks! Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 8 months

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Lodi, CA: Computer Warehouse Clearance...

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

About a month or so back I reported to you about one of the California central valley area's used computer stores doing a 'warehouse sale' every Saturday... Well they have lost their lease on their warehouse and are looking to clear it all out by the end of August. Details: The Computer Store running the sale is 'Allen's to Go' and are located at 13461 Highway 88 in Lokeford, their store phone number is (209) 727-0477. The sale is being held on Saturdays from 8:00am till Noon in a greenhouse at a former nursery. You can find it about 5 miles east of Lodi, Calif. on Highway 12; the address is 10400 Highway 12 (heading >from Lodi it would be to your right). Marie Templin, the owner who is usually there, said 'the more you buy the better price your gonna get.' Last week was the annoucement and business was slow that day so it hasn't been picked over much yet. What's there: - Alot of Commodore 64 and PET stuff retired from the Lodi Schools - Many old IBM and clone cases, power supplies, motherboards, drives (INCLUDING OLD HARD DRIVES, BRING YOUR LISTS GUYS!) - A small amount of some Mac related Jasmine Drives (external HDs, syquest, etc.) -lots of monitors in various states of repair and dis-repair -Old laser printers, old copiers, old phonographs, a couple microfiche readers, a couple projectors -dot-matrix printers, cables, etc. The three or so Osbornes are still there as well as all the Apple II+'s IIe's, IIc's, III's, drives, etc. You have until the end of August... Don't delay! Larry Anderson ------ P.S. Marie is looking for stuff/resources for a PC jr. owner... If you know of any let her know. ------ -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 8 months

4
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System/36 Hardware Key

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

If I do buy this System/36, I need to be able to boot it. A key is needed to boot the computer. The key switch has 3 positions: Normal, Locked, and Service. The switch has to be in the Service position to boot. It's currently in the Normal position. There are 3 wires on the back of the keyswitch. One for each position, I think. Which ones would I cross to boot? +------- Wire one. Normal position. / \ +---------- Wire two. Locked position. \ / +------- Wire three. Service position.

28 years, 8 months

1
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ATARI XE FS

by manney＠nwohio.com

Books, keyboard and manuals. ---------- > From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > To: Manney > Subject: Re: ATARI XE FS > Date: Thursday, July 31, 1997 12:33 PM > > On Thu, 31 Jul 1997, PG Manney wrote: > > > I've been offered an Atari XE system (1987, I think). Works, as far as I > > know. > > > > $30 + S/H is wanted. Anyone want it? > > What stuff comes with that for $30? > > Sam > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass >

28 years, 8 months

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Info needed: PDP11/24 CPU switches

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

Header just about says it all. I'm trying to get an 11/24 fired up, and it seems to be somewhat single minded in what device it expects to boot on startup. Right now, its got an RL02 and RX02 on it and does not appear to be lookoing at either of them. So... does anyone have a handy reference to the configuration switches located on the CPU board which will define the boot (and other) options? Thanks! -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

28 years, 8 months

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I'm back

by FAIAZMC＠hsd.utc.com

It's about time. ---------- From: Bill Whitson To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: I'm back Date: Wednesday, July 30, 1997 9:22PM You may not have noticed ;) but I've been too busy to do anything list-related for the last couple weeks. I'll catch up on the old messages soon. New stuff: 1. After a 2 week linux installation the classiccmp server is on-line (yeah, it was really ugly). Anyway we now have a couple gigs of storage space available. If you want to create anything for the web site I can provide space. The web site is now http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp/ The ftp site is now ftp://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/pub/classiccmp/ 2. I will be taking a week-long vacation in San Luis Obispo, CA in early september. There is a huge computer scrap-yard in the area that I will be checking out. If any of you local to the area would like to join up for that, let me know. Bill Whitson

28 years, 8 months

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ATARI XE FS

by manney＠nwohio.com

I've been offered an Atari XE system (1987, I think). Works, as far as I know. $30 + S/H is wanted. Anyone want it?

28 years, 8 months

2
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Weekend haul

by manney＠nwohio.com

I picked up an absolutely perfect Commodore SX-64 (used 5 times) and a VIC-20 with box and all flyers, etc (used once). I find the included stuff fascinating (almost as much so as the machines themselves) as they recapture the flavor of the era. The SX-64 documentation makes reference to a DX-64. What's that -- 2 drives? Also, the SX-64 refused to read (known good) disks at first, then read fine. Suppose a film had built up on the head, which the disks "scrubbed"? Anyone ever see that happen? Anyone want either? Make an offer.

28 years, 8 months

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Anyone need Model 100 Stuff?

by rcini＠msn.com

I have a line on some Radio Shack Model 100 stuff in the Research Triangle Park area of North Carolina. The guy wants to sell ("no reasonable offer refused") the stuff in a lot, but I only need a few parts of it. Below is the list. If someone wants it (except the ones marked with "*"), let me know. ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET <rcini(a)msn.com> - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking ==============>>> The List Lots of Model 100 Stuff in Good Condition 2 Model 100's 24K- good condition 1 Portable Disk Drive 2 (*) 1 Disk Video Interface- New Condition 1 Modem Acoustic Cups (*) 1 Radio Shack CTR Tape Recorder (works well) 1 Service Manual and Tech Ref Manual (*) Miscellaneous software and accessories, cables etc.

28 years, 8 months

4
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Hacking TI Calculator Interface

by rcini＠msn.com

On Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:39:13 -0400, Roger Merchberger <zmerch(a)northernway.net> wrote: >>Use a diode to change the -12V to 0V, and resistors to change the +12V to +5V .. it helps to have a cable to test first for that one, tho. On the Tandy PDDs, the resistor value was 22K Ohms IIRC and any cheap .6V drop diode would do (read: 1N914 -- everybody's buddy)<< It's funny that you said this. I just looked at an RS-232 level shifter circuit on the MIT MiniBoard robotics controller that used a transistor, two LEDs and a handful of resistors to accomplish that, but it needs 5v to operate. Really what I need is a parasitic converter that's powered off of the serial port itself. I've seen this done with a MAX232 or a Dallas 12?? chip. Hmmmm, time to circuit-hunt. ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET e-mail: rcini(a)msn.com - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Netowrking

28 years, 8 months

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Hacking TI Calculator Interface

by rcini＠msn.com

Hello, all: I know that this really doesn't fit here, since I only bought this calc yesterday, but I figure that someone here may know... I bought a TI-85 graphing calculator, and it has a 3-wire computer interface. It seems that for $40, you can buy a cable adapter to hook it to a PC's COM port. Software can be gotten from TI's Web site. I don't want to pay $40 for a DB-9 connector and a 3-wire headphone jack. I'm guessing that the interface is a software-handshaking 3-wire RS-232 setup, but before I hook something up to the calc, I wanted to ask if anyone has this calc and can shed some light on it. TIA! ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking

28 years, 8 months

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Honeywell Microsystem 6

by adam＠merlin.net.au

Hi! I recently picked up one of these beasts at a second-hand store, and managed to assemble her and get her running. However, I have been unable to find out anything about them other than they run the 8086 processor. Can anyone tell me something more? Like what the OS is, when they were made, and what tehir arcitecture was? Honeywell, unsuprisingly, couldn't help, and I found nothing on the web. Thanks heaps, Adam.

28 years, 8 months

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Some More Stuff on AuctionWeb

by gmast＠polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu

A few more items I listed in the auction. Not much interest in the Mac+ logic board, Mac SE supply or the Disk II card so they might be THE deal. Make sure you read the descriptions on the web page before bidding. Apple Imagewriter II Current bid: $31.00 Auction ends on: 08/03/97, 13:22:12 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=lfc15929 Apple Disk II Interface Card Current bid: $2.50 Auction ends on: 08/03/97, 13:46:46 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=scn04925 **Brand New** Macintosh SE Main Logic Board! Current bid: $14.00 Auction ends on: 08/03/97, 13:53:39 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=cxa461 Macintosh SE Power Supply Bidding starts at: $1.00 Auction ends on: 08/03/97, 13:58:13 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=kdc0985 Apple Imagewriter I Spare Parts Kit (Factory) Current bid: $11.50 Auction ends on: 08/03/97, 14:18:56 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=dey14024 Macintosh Plus Main Logic Board - New! Bidding starts at: $2.00 Auction ends on: 08/05/97, 20:23:05 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=ujt40487 Thanks! Greg

28 years, 8 months

1
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I'm back

by bw＠booster.bothell.washington.edu

You may not have noticed ;) but I've been too busy to do anything list-related for the last couple weeks. I'll catch up on the old messages soon. New stuff: 1. After a 2 week linux installation the classiccmp server is on-line (yeah, it was really ugly). Anyway we now have a couple gigs of storage space available. If you want to create anything for the web site I can provide space. The web site is now http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp/ The ftp site is now ftp://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/pub/classiccmp/ 2. I will be taking a week-long vacation in San Luis Obispo, CA in early september. There is a huge computer scrap-yard in the area that I will be checking out. If any of you local to the area would like to join up for that, let me know. Bill Whitson

28 years, 8 months

2
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Hacking TI Calculator Interface

by zmerch＠northernway.net

Whilst in a self-induced trance, jpero(a)mail.cgo.wave.ca happened to blather: >> I know that this really doesn't fit here, since I only bought this calc >> yesterday, but I figure that someone here may know... >> >> I bought a TI-85 graphing calculator, and it has a 3-wire computer interface. >> It seems that for $40, you can buy a cable adapter to hook it to a PC's COM >> port. Software can be gotten from TI's Web site. >> >> I don't want to pay $40 for a DB-9 connector and a 3-wire headphone jack. I'm >> guessing that the interface is a software-handshaking 3-wire RS-232 setup, but >> before I hook something up to the calc, I wanted to ask if anyone has this >> calc and can shed some light on it. >Sorry to throw wet towel on you...those "dongle" interface kit guess >what has little complex board inside. Real sucker really. > >We did that this year to see if we can do that too. :) Hold on there, pardner! This isn't nearly as complex as you think. If the TI is anything like my Casio FX9700G graphic calculator, with the funky 3-wire headphone hookup, you can most likely do it with 1 or 2 chips or even just some diodes and resistors. What it is, is the interface is an *almost* standard RS-232 interface. Speed and all is normal, but it prolly only works on TTL levels. The PDDs (Portable Disk Drives) from Tandy to be used on their old, non-MS-Dos laptops did the same thing... used RS-232 but only at +5V and 0V levels. Use a diode to change the -12V to 0V, and resistors to change the +12V to +5V .. it helps to have a cable to test first for that one, tho. On the Tandy PDDs, the resistor value was 22K Ohms IIRC and any cheap .6V drop diode would do (read: 1N914 -- everybody's buddy) Otherwise, just design a small, self-powered 1488/1489 box to convert the levels, and you're off and running. I was planning on doing this for my Casio, but haven't had the time just yet. (Maybe I can just use my TPDD cable... hooking up the appropriate wires??? Something to think about.) Anyway, I hope this helps! Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch(a)northernway.net | be your first career choice.

28 years, 8 months

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Apple Lisa Owners??

by bede0005＠gold.tc.umn.edu

Hi Kai:: I don't remeber if I got back to you about the Lisa. If I did, I guess just ignore this post. You had mentioned that you do not have access to the Office system. I have a set of disk images of the Office system as well as the workshop that I can email you if you would like. Also, I have information on removing the serialization if you already have a serialized set you would like to install. Rob

28 years, 8 months

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(fwd) FS: Commodore 8032 (fwd)

by dastar＠crl.com

Did anyone see this? Sounds like a nice system. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: jkeane(a)j51.com (Joseph Keane) Subject: FS: Commodore 8032 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 02:07:36 GMT For Sale: Commodore 8032 Computer (80 column screen - 32k memory) Free with computer: 2031 Single Disk Drive - Works except occassionally hangs up. All original manuals. Original owner - kept under dust cover, in great shape, with original boxes, and lots of disks, games, and word processor, with instructions. Great addition to your Commodore collection! Asking $40.00 for everything. Pick up only - Rockland County, New York. E-Mail for more information to: jkeane(a)j51.com -- Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 8 months

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Zenith ?????

by dastar＠crl.com

On Wed, 31 Dec 1969, Marvin wrote: > Among the things I picked up yesterday was a Zenith Data Systems > keyboard, model ZTX-1-A. The top of the keyboard looks like a regular > keyboard but the back has an RCA jack labeled "Video Output", a 40 pin > header labeled "Printer", a pushbutton labeled "Save", a db9 male > connector labeled "Power", two phone jacks labeled "Phone Connect" and > "Wall Connect", and a switch near the phone jacks labeled > "Multiline/Single Line". Anyone have any idea what this thing is? Find the power supply for it, hook it to a TV and boot it up. Sounds like a whole computer! Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 8 months

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What is this machine? (Pertec)

by scott＠saskatoon.com

I'm curious if anyone knows what this machine is. (What OS it runs, etc.) It's a Pertec machine with a 68020, Floppy, SCSI?, looks like 4MB RAM, and serial(?) ports on the back. The power supply has a "ST-100" stamped on it (along with a June 1988 date) The backplane itself has ST-98 Rev 003 written on it. The main sockets on the backplane are two 60-pin slots. It claims to be a "3226", according to the plate on the back. That info also says it's of type "P7005". I haven't seen the machine... this is info I've collected from emailling the owner. (I guess this machine is a year too new for this list. I hope you'll forgive me.) thanks ttfn srw

28 years, 8 months

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More Altair Scans

by rcini＠msn.com

Hello, all: Just an update on the Altair info that my friend is scanning for me. Below is the list. He is preparing a ZIP disk for me containing the files in the PDF forman. I'll have it in a couple of weeks. He also said that he wants to scan other materials that he has, such as Altair Basic and Extended Basic manuals, the Assembler manual and others, plus the MITS "Computer Notes" as well as material from other manufacturers. I told him that I want it all (like I would really say no?) Holy, cow, what a list... ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET <rcini(a)msn.com> - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking ==============>>>> The List Altair 8800 Stuff Altair 8800 Operator Manual op_man.pdf 5.49MB Altair Audio Cassette Interface 8800-acr.pdf 2.19MB Altair 4K Static RAM 8800-4mcs.pdf 1.28MB Altair 4 Parallel I/O 8800-4pio.pdf 1.77MB Altair Vector Int. & Real Time Clock 8800-virtc.pdf 1.93MB Altair 8800B Manual All Sections (338 pgs.) 8800b.pdf 26.37MB Front/Index 8800b-i.pdf 515KB Intro (Sect.1) 8800b-1.pdf 558KB Op. Guide (Sect.2) 8800b-2.pdf 6.25MB Theory of Op. (Sect.3) 8800b-3.pdf 8.51MB Troubleshooting(Sect 4) 8800b-4.pdf 3.78MB Assembly (Sect.5 8800b-5.pdf 6.31MB Parts List (App. A) 8800b-a.pdf 438KB Processor Technology 4K Static RAM 4kra.pdf 445KB Processor Technology MotherBoard pt_mb.pdf 373KB Cromemco Bytesaver bytsavr.pdf 1.22MB

28 years, 8 months

2
1
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DG1 hard drive

by jrice＠texoma.net

Sam, do you know what hard drive a Data General One uses? James Rice

28 years, 8 months

1
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Right idea, wrong item...

by B.Lane＠PSS.Boeing.com

I hate it when this happens... As it turns out, it's not an RRD40 CD-ROM drive I should be after. According to a manual I just picked up, it's the RRD50. With that in mind... Allison? Tim? Would either of you happen to have a line on a DEC RRD50 drive and controller? And no, Allison, I've not given up on MOPbooting. It would just be a Nice Thing if I didn't have to depend on that every time I needed to do a load. Thanks in advance. ==Bruce 'Why me?' Lane (kyrrin(a)wizards.net)

28 years, 8 months

1
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I need a Commodore Plus/4 Video Cable

by gmast＠polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu

To whomever needs that cable, I have one (maybe 2) for a C-64. $3 (postage) and it's yours. Greg

28 years, 8 months

1
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New mailing list for old electronic calculator collectors.

by kevan＠motiv.co.uk

Hi all, I have created a mailing list for the discussion of old electronic calculators. To subscribe send a message to: ecalc-request(a)lists.heydon.org with the single word 'subscribe' in the body of the message. Once you are subscribed you may send submissions to: ecalc(a)lists.heydon.org Regards -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/

28 years, 8 months

1
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Epson PX-8, no power up

by dastar＠crl.com

On Wed, 31 Dec 1969, Marvin wrote: > I just plugged in the Epson PX-8 and the only thing that happens is the > LCD screen turns on, but nothing else. I plugged in a power supply to > charge the battery (and then checked the battery voltage) so that is not > the problem. I also pressed both the outside reset switch with no > response, and then pressed the "master" reset switch in the compartment > on the bottom of the machine, again with no response. When the bottom > was opened, there was space for two ROMs; the center one was empty and > the one to the side had an Epson ROM of some sort installed. There was Marvin, the socket labelled ROM1 should have an Epson ROM in it, and as far as I know it is the O/S ROM. ROM2 socket on mine has Portable WordStar and is not necessary to run the system as far as I know. In fact, I just pulled the ROM on mine and the system still came up (BTW, those ROMs are neat...they have a little plastic bucket that the ROM sits in that makes it easy to pull them out and re-insert them). My battery is worn and does not hold a charge anymore, but it will recharge and operate for a little while (how long I don't know since I never have it on for more than a few minutes) but as soon as I plug in the power supply it works fine. Inside the ROM compartment you will notice an "Initial Reset" button. Have you tried pressing that? There is also a dip switch inside (SW4)...my settings are as follows: 1:ON 2:ON 3:ON 4:ON 5:OFF 6:ON 7:OFF 8:OFF There is a smaller compartment on the bottom near that back of the unit...did you make sure there is a ROM in there? Is it seated correctly? Hope this helps in some small way. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 8 months

3
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Zenith ?????

by groberts＠mitre.org

i believe it's a "dumb terminal" that uses NTSC video - probably emulates either the H19 or VT100 (or both). i think the "save" button is used in configuring (and saving) terminal options. - glenn At 04:00 PM 12/31/70 +0000, Marvin wrote: >Among the things I picked up yesterday was a Zenith Data Systems >keyboard, model ZTX-1-A. The top of the keyboard looks like a regular >keyboard but the back has an RCA jack labeled "Video Output", a 40 pin >header labeled "Printer", a pushbutton labeled "Save", a db9 male >connector labeled "Power", two phone jacks labeled "Phone Connect" and >"Wall Connect", and a switch near the phone jacks labeled >"Multiline/Single Line". Anyone have any idea what this thing is? >Thanks. > > > +=========================================================+ | Glenn F. Roberts, Falls Church, VA | Comments are my own and not the opinion of my employer | groberts(a)mitre.org

28 years, 8 months

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Some Great deals on AuctionWeb

by gmast＠polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu

> On 21 Jul 97 at 10:15, Greg Mast wrote: > > Apple III External Floppy Drive **PHOTO** > I noticed the current bid for this was $103.50. I'd love to hear if > you actually collect that much for it. I can't believe someone > actually wants it THAT bad. Me too. I figured $20-$30. But who am I to complain? But like they say, talk is cheap. We'll see if they pull through. I had a Radio Shack hard drive that was bid up to $150 a while back. Both high bidders flaked and I relisted it and sold it for $30. Go figure. On the other hand, I had a garage sale last weekend. Not one person interested in the piles of Apple, Commodore, Atari stuff. I mean, if you guys aren't going to garage sales to buy stuff, you're missing a lot of deals. Most of the stuff at the Goodwill has an old garage sale sticker on it.

28 years, 8 months

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Bad Joke. Bad Bad Bad! Front panel for a PC?

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> I.E Making a new ROM. Well, I do have the IBM PC manual that has the ROM > unassembled in it... I thought those panels worked by playing with the > lines on the CPU. Sounds like more work than I have time to do now. I do > know that E11 lets you pull this off via the paralell port. It would be a > neat trick, if I had time to work at it. They do work by playing with the lines on the CPU. However, the 8088 (and most microprocessors) do not allow you to get to the internal registers >from the bus. It works on the PDP-11 because the registers have a bus address; i.e., you can DMA into registers. This stopped being possible on the microprocessor implementations of the the PDP-11, which is where MicroODT fills in. Roger ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 8 months

2
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10base2

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Quick question: 10base2 (cheapernet) thin coax eithernet: What is the minimum cable length? Everything I have has the maximum and I remember there is a minimim. Allison

28 years, 8 months

2
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10base2

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Minimum is 1 meter, max is 185m 25ohm terminator at each in, 48 drops per segment. ---------- > From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: 10base2 > Date: Monday, July 28, 1997 1:00 PM > > Quick question: > > 10base2 (cheapernet) thin coax eithernet: What is the minimum cable length? > Everything I have has the maximum and I remember there is a minimim. > > Allison

28 years, 8 months

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Bad Joke. Bad Bad Bad! Front panel for a PC?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<but then again, I do have a PC-XT motherboard to waste... It would be <interesting... Is it possible? It would score high on the nerdity <scale... The 8088 would be difficult to make a hardware style front pannel like the PDP-8e or 11/70s had but a software front pannel is doable with a spare parallel port or homebrew IO card. It would have to ahve some software to dump registers to lights based on switchs, load registers from switches (at least 16 of them for data/addresses) also other things like single stepping and single instruction would have to be handled. The other possibility is an embedded ODT like the 11/03, 11/23 or later q-bus PDP-11s have. IT allows memory display, changing locations, halting, running from an address and display/load registers from a terminal(console). Allison

28 years, 8 months

2
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VIC-20 Kernel Project

by rcini＠msn.com

On Sun, 27 Jul 1997 14:13:00 -0500 (CDT), Brett <danjo(a)xnet.com> wrote: >>Unless someone can verify the legal status of the copyrights on the ROMs. >>I am a little busy setting up Rescue trips to dig much further into THAT >>moras of mumbo-jumbo. I got my copies of the ROM images off of ftp.funet.fi. It seems that this Finland ftp site has boat loads of Commodore software, including the ROM images to be used for emulators (I used mine for the PC-VIC emulator and as a known-good ROM image to compare my Kernel assemblies with). If my wife really understood what I was doing with the VIC Kernel project, she'd probably say "Why??" too. But, it's really more of saying to myself that I reverse-engineered object-code into a recompilable file and that I learned something than anything else. Since I can't yet really own the source code, I made my own <g>. ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET e-mail: rcini(a)msn.com - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Netowrking

28 years, 8 months

2
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I need a Commodore Plus/4 Video Cable

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >>The 8-pin cable for the Plus/4 is exactly the same as the 8-pin cable for the (more common) Commodore 64 or 128. << >> Finally, if you want to hack one together, I can provide the pinout.<< >I'd like the Pinout!!< First, the Commodore 8-pin DIN connector is the unusual one; the "Hershman" or something. This means that pins 7 and 8 are not in the same positions as on the common 8-pin DIN connector. (Look at the port to confirm pin placement; I'm not sure the chart below is correct.) One easy solution here is to cut pins 7 and 8 off a common 8-pin connector; they aren't needed for anything. Or as explained below, you can use a common 5-pin DIN connector; but, if you're hooking to a separated color composite monitor, your picture won't be QUITE as sharp. Looking at the port on the back of the computer, OR at the BACK of the DIN plug (the side you'll attach the wires to), the pinout is: 8 7 3 6 1 5 4 2 Connections are: 1 Luminance 2 GRND 3 Audio 4 Color Composite 5 Audio In (not used) 6 Chroma 7 NC 8 NC Hook up pin 3 for audio in all cases. As to video, if you're using a separated color composite monitor, do separate RCA plugs for 1 and 6. If you're using a color composite monitor with the single input, use 4. If you have monochrome, use 1. If you want to use a 5-pin DIN connector with a separated color composite monitor, do separate RCA plugs for pins 1 and 4.

28 years, 8 months

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I need a Commodore Plus/4 Video Cable

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >> >Does anyone have a Commodore Plus/4 video cable for sale or trade?<<< >> (the early models had a 5-pin port) will also work on a Plus/4. In fact, I think most home computer manufacturers (Atari, TI) used 5-pin cables with the composite, sound and ground on the same pins, so you could try one of<< >I have a TI/994a converter box...will this work?< The TI 99/4a doesn't have an internal RF modulator; that's what the box does. So even on a TI, you only need the box (and can only use the box) if you're hooking to a TV. The Plus/4 has an internal RF modulator, so if you want to hook to a TV all you need is an RCA-RCA cable and an ordinary game/TV switch. I *assumed* (and we all know what happens when we "ass u me") that when you said "video cable", you meant a monitor cable. As I said, it's the same as the C64 and some other computers use, so it shouldn't be all that rare. I'm sure anybody could sell you one (including me) for $5 and postage. Gil Parrish 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com

28 years, 8 months

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VIC-20 Kernel Project

by rcini＠msn.com

On Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:51:33 -0400, Gil Parrish wrote: > For the last two years, I have been working on making a recompilable version of the VIC-20 Kernel ROM.< >>OK, I'm not afraid to ask the amateur question: Why? >>I'd love to see someone with good programming skills write some >>sophisticated software for the VIC-20, likely requiring at least a 16K >>expander or something. If your project will help lead to that, I'm all >>for it. Well, Gil, I used it as a learning project. When I first got my VIC-20 in 1981/2, I was in junior high school. I programmed mostly in BASIC, and did a little ML. After I graduated, I got involved in too many other things: my fraternity, my wife, a job, the Mac, and then Windows hacking. When I bought my house two years ago, I moved all of my old machines and started playing with them again. So...I wanted to re-learn 6502 ML and the VIC/CBM architecture. I thought that documenting the VIC Kernel (some thing that I had never seen in print) would be a nice project. Also, I thought that it sould be good to have recompilable Kernel code, if I ever needed to recompile it. Documenting the Kernel enables the programmer to understand what's in the "black box." This is why AndrewShulman and Matt Pietrek have made a fortune in books detailing the internals of Windows. ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET rcini(a)msn.com - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking

28 years, 8 months

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Aquarius Stuff

by marvin＠rain.org

I found I sent this email to Sam instead of mailing to the listserver so I am just reposting in case anyone is interested. > Now you did it, I had to go back and look at all the stuff again, darn > > :). Everything below has the Aquarius name and logo on it. The > 4-color > printer turned out to be Radofin Electronics. This is actually what > came in the lot: Prices are from the Crimac, Inc. Aquarius Order form > > before the discount. The only date is on the order form and states > that > 10% can be deducted if mailed by January 31, 1985. The prices are > from > that flyer as obtained from a copy of the original order. The next > flyer from Crimac showed a price increase of about 20%. Pricing is > qualified when the model number on the box did not match the order. > > Mattel Electronics Aquarius > Ser # RH0115319 > Model # 5931 > Missing original box and packaging, but has docs > No Price listed > > Mattel Electronics Data Recorder Ser # RH000151 > Added label - Mattel Electronics, Mfg by Radofin > Model # 4394 > Price - $31.95 for Model # 4394R > > Mattel Electronics Mini Expander Ser # RH0109348 > Model # 4063 > Price - $43.95 for Model # 4063R > > Radofin Electronics 4-Color Printer Ser # RH0500203 > No indication of mfg on printer, only Radofin on box > Missing printer cable > Model # 4615R > Price - $109.00 > > Mattel Electronics Space Speller Cartridge > Only Mattel label on box is "(c) Mattel Electronics, Inc. 1983" > Model # GMN0014 > Price - $19.95 for Model 4682R > > Mattel Electonics FileForm Cartridge > Model # 4177 > Price - $29.95 for Model 4177R > > Radofin Electronics 32K Memory Module > Model # 4217R > Price - $74.95

28 years, 8 months

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IBM PCjr Power Supplies

by ard＠siva.bris.ac.uk

>A while ago I promised two people that I would fetch them some IBM PCjr >power supplies if I ever found them. Well, I found some today. I've got Incidentally, I built a PSU for my PC-jr last week. I used a simple 15V AC transformer, no centre tap or anything like that. The only one I could find was 50VA, which is marginal, but not too bad. The ends of the secondary go to the outside 2 pins of the PC-jr power connector. The central pin goes to mains earth and to nothing on the secondary side at all. Oh, I put a 3.15A fuse in series with the secondary to protect the transformer. It works fine. My PC-jr boots, and all PSU outputs (including the -ve one) are present and correct. > >Sam -tony

28 years, 8 months

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Freebie Okidata Okimate 10 Printer

by gmast＠polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu

You pay UPS for 7 lbs from 93405. Printer only, no interface cable. Was used with C-64. Untested but looks good. Check the <a href=http://www.ups.com/using/services/rave/rate.html> UPS Rate Calculator </a> to figure shipping. And be sure to add about $1 because those quotes are commercial pick-up rates.

28 years, 8 months

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Hayes MicroModem II Micro-coupler

by dastar＠crl.com

Was there some bloke on this discussion who was asking for the Hayes micro-coupler the other day? I have an extra one if you still need it. E-mail me. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 8 months

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Commodore Liquidation!

by gmast＠polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu

I have the following Commodore stuff for sale. Discount for more than one item (you save on shipping too) VIC-1541 Drive (2 ea) $5 ea 1541 Drive (2 ea) $5 ea C-64 in orig box w/ps(1 ea) $5 Commodore joysticks (1 pr) $5 Untested C-64 Power Supplies (6 ea) $3 ea Remember to add shipping to what its worth to you. Use the UPS site: <a href=http://www.ups.com/using/services/rave/rate.html> UPS Rate Calculator </a> to figure shipping. And be sure to add $1 because those quotes are commercial pick-up rates. Drives and C-64s are about 11 lbs ea. My ZIP is 93405. I also have a pile of cables and stuff that I haven't look through yet. Will throw in whatever cables and manuals I can find that go with each item, no guarantees though. Also, Im pretty sure I ran all these but not positive. I don't have time to test all this stuff. Sold AS-IS. Make me an offer on all or some of it! It's going to go one way or another so if it doesn't sell, I'll give it away for shipping cost. If that doesn't work it shall return to the thrift store from whence it came!

28 years, 8 months

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IBM PCjr Power Supplies

by dastar＠crl.com

A while ago I promised two people that I would fetch them some IBM PCjr power supplies if I ever found them. Well, I found some today. I've got two up for grabs. Please e-mail me if you were one of the two people who inquired about one. If you weren't, e-mail me anyway and I will send them to you if the other two guys don't respond. To the two guys whose names I forgot: sorry for forgetting your names! Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 8 months

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Can someone decipher this panic?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

A-B C-D < ---+----------+---------+ < 1 | M7606 =============| < 2 | M7608 =============| < 3 | M3106 === | < 4 | M7516YM== | < ---+----------+---------+ < 5 | M7546====|M7555====| < 6 | < 7 | < 8 | < 9 | < 10 | < 11 | < 12 | < ---+----------+---------+ < 13 | | HDCNCTRS < Slot 13 bottom is not the HD controller, it's the distribution card. There should be a 50pin cable bettween the m9058 and the m7555(rqdx3) card. Pull the m3106 and bump the rest up one with the last one being the m7555. It shouldn't make a difference but at this point you don't need it to boot. This will give you a minimal config for the bus. Also make sure the overt the top cable for the memory is good! A-B C-D ---+----------+---------+ 1 | M7606 =============| 2 | M7608 =============| 3 | M7546 === | 4 | M7555 === | ---+----------+---------+ 5 |===Q->====|==Q->====| 6 |====<-Q===|===<-Q===| 7 |===Q->====|===Q->===| The arrows are added to indicate the qbus grant flow for the bus starting at row 5. Allison

28 years, 8 months

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(fwd) Apple /// FS (fwd)

by dastar＠crl.com

Here's an Apple /// for sale. I've seen them go for much cheaper. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: sundeck(a)ix.netcom.com(N.J.C.) Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.marketplace Subject: Apple /// FS Date: 24 Jul 1997 12:31:32 GMT one Apple /// with Apple /// monitor and 2 nd drive , some software $150 plus shipping sundeck(a)ix.netcom.com or eflea(a)atlantic.net -- Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 8 months

1
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The Rescuer's Conundrum

by ard＠siva.bris.ac.uk

>Or otherwise stated: What to do when the cost of reviving a rescued >computer is as much as buying one of the same model? > >To explain, I recently rescued a Mac+ (2.5/40) which was being thrown >out by my employer. When I got it, it would give intermittant Sad Mac >errors. No problem, I figure I can replace the RAM with some surplus >PC SIMMs. This fixes the Sad Macs, but after it heats up it dies with >an "Address Error" bomb. Some board switching points to the motherboard >(more specifically, the ROMs) as being the fault. Hmmm... My first thought is to fix the old board : Since the ROMs work OK when cold, you should be able to make a good copy of them onto disk. Then blow them into EPROMs, and modify the Mac+ to use said EPROMs (I believe a very small mod is needed, alas, but I don't know that much about the Mac+ hardware). IMHO that's not piracy - it's simply using a backup copy on new media since the original media failed. However, a pair of EPROMs would probably cost about $15, so that's no solution either. In the past I _have_ spent more on repairing/restoring a machine than buying a new one would cost. The reason is simple - I enjoy doing said repairs. A hobby doesn't have to make financial sense. [...] >Thanks in advance... <<<John>>> > >P.S. Anybody also know of a source for a LaserWriter Plus logic board, too? What's wrong with the old one. From the pictures I've seen of said board (Sorry, I don't have one, only a CX-VDO (same engine, but with no logic board) and a Laserwriter 2NT), it looks to be mostly standard components, and should be repairable. -tony

28 years, 8 months

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TRW Swap Meet

by coslor＠pscosf.peru.edu

Hey Marvin: I was wondering if any of your recent Atari acquisitions are for sale. I am especially interested on a good deal on a drive and some software... PLEASE let me know.. CORD //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor(a)bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*// On Wed, 31 Dec 1969, Marvin wrote: > I went to the TRW Swap Meet today down in Los Angeles and managed to get > a few things. A guy was selling a fairly complete Aquarius that > included the cassette recorder, printer/plotter, expansion chassis, a > 32K expansion unit, some games, and documentation. He was asking $25 > but took $20 for the lot. Also picked up an Epson PX-8 portable and an > NEC 8201 portable (sure hope those numbers are correct as I am going > from memory) for $25 lot. The "best" deal was a guy walking around with > a sign that said "Free Atari". Of course, that got my attention and I > picked the 5 boxes of stuff up. Haven't checked it all out yet, but > there were supposed to be three Atari 400 computers, Three disk drive > units, an 850 interface, a modem, docs, and some other stuff. Saw a guy > offering S-100 cards (mostly memory and HD cards) at $5 each. When I > asked why he was asking so much, he replied they weren't for sale. I > hadn't heard of the manufacturer of those particular cards, and figured > if schematics were available, they might be worth what he was asking. > > I met a friend of mine whom I hadn't seen for about a year. Turns out > he built one of the Altair computers I have and was one of the first > factory reps for Vector Graphic. Apparently among the many people he > called on was a place up around Berkeley with a name like Kentucky Fried > Computers (or something similar) and that was where Northstar Computers > got started. Apparently, he has some of the early SCCS stuff along with > most of the Vector Graphic docs, etc. so with any luck, I'll end up with > that stuff too. > >

28 years, 8 months

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bundling mail

by lwalker＠mail.interlog.com

I recall seeing an option to bundle msgs in this list. How do I get this? Please bundle ?

28 years, 8 months

1
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I need a Commodore Plus/4 Video Cable

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >Does anyone have a Commodore Plus/4 video cable for sale or trade?< The 8-pin cable for the Plus/4 is exactly the same as the 8-pin cable for the (more common) Commodore 64 or 128. And, a 5-pin cable made for the 64 (the early models had a 5-pin port) will also work on a Plus/4. In fact, I think most home computer manufacturers (Atari, TI) used 5-pin cables with the composite, sound and ground on the same pins, so you could try one of those if you have one sitting around. Finally, if you want to hack one together, I can provide the pinout. Gil Parrish 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com

28 years, 8 months

5
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Some Great Deals

by gmast＠polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu

> >On the other hand, I had a garage sale last weekend. Not one person = > >interested in the piles of Apple, Commodore, Atari stuff. I mean, if you = > >guys aren't going to garage sales to buy stuff, you're missing a lot of = > >deals. Most of the stuff at the Goodwill has an old garage sale sticker = > >on it.< > > Heck, if you're dumping stuff at garage sale prices, post the list here > first! Probably nothing rare or particularly interesting, but you never > know what somebody might be looking for. > > Gil Parrish > 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com = I do post lists of the stuff I'm selling on Auctionweb. Some of that stuff does go really cheap but not all. I do plan to post a big list of the stuff I was selling at the garage sale and the prices should be very reasonable (cheap). You are right in that the G sale stuff isn't rare. I had 3 Apple II+, an Apple IIc, C-64, Piles of C-64 power supplies and cables, joysticks, Atari 2600 consoles and games. Only thing is that they need to be shipped which can be more than the price sometimes. I did manage to give away 4 dead C-64s and a 1541 to a guy who works on them. Give me a month or so.

28 years, 8 months

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Info needed: VAXStation 3520 & others...

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

>> 2nd: a number of DECStation 2100 and 3100 series units. (along with >> various peripherals and expantion boxes. >> >> What are they, and what do they run? (and docs?) > > I have one, it runs VMS 5.3 (VAXServer 3100) Sorry; it it runs VMS it's a VAXstation, not a DECstation. The DECstations are built on MIPS processors. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 8 months

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Info needed: VAXStation 3520 & others...

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> 1st: (the biggie) VAXStation 3520. 'Cube' configuration, apparently 4 > processors Four processors would make it a 3540... > , 64meg of ram, a TK70 and controller, one board that appears to > be the interface between the processor bus and the three Q-bus slots in > the chassis, How much stuff is on the QBus adapter board? There were two versions: FTAM supports only the TK70 controller (is you TK70 attached to QBus or to SCSI?) and FQAM supports any random QBus module. FTAM is a simple module containing only a few chips; FBIC (interface to the backplane) and CQBIC (CVAX -> QBus adapter) being the only really big ones. I believe there was also a clock generator chip, but not much else. FQAM is chuck full o' goodness. It his a prom-based microcode machine to run the module and lots and lots of PALs. > and a board on the processor bus marked "I/O Module" with two > 50 pin headers on it. The connector which goes out the side of the backplane is SCSI. Although DEC used the DSSI chip on this module, they only supported SCSI; the DSSI chip is capable of doing both. The connector which comes out the front of the backplane goes to a distribution panel which provides: - Four serial ports (console/printer, modem, mouse, keyboard) - Ethernet (AUI and BNC) - Diagnostic code display (one 7-segment LED) Unfortunately, I don't know the pinout of the cable; I don't have a printset for the 3520. > There also appears to be a space for what looks like it would have been a > three board video sub-system (which has been removed). Three boards is correct. For extra fun, it has its own embedded MicroVAX II... > Aside from the basic power/control cabling, and the cable to the TK-70, > there are no other cables in the unit at present. (and no place to plug in > a terminal!) The terminal plugs into the distribution panel which plugs into the I/O module.

28 years, 8 months

1
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(fwd) Model 4 video problems

by bluesky6＠ix.netcom.com

Can any expert out there help me with this? Thanks! In comp.sys.tandy, bluesky6(a)ix.netcom.com (Benedict Chong) wrote: %I just got a Model 4. When I turn it on, the disk drive will spin but %there's no video. % %When the video brightness is increased, I can see a large rectangular %green area where the video would be. % %Instead of video characters, there are lots of zigzag lines across the %screen, with more on the top of the screen than towards the bottom. %The entire screen is stable and does not flicker or move around. % %It has been a good number of years since I last played with this kind %of video (built a 6502/6845 terminal in the mid 80s) so I can't %remember what problem would cause this type of symptoms. % %When I remove the video connector (after opening up the machine), the %screen loses the vertical hold. I guess that would mean that the %vertical sync and circuitry is working. % %Could the problem be due to the monitor circuitry or a problem with %the Horizontal Sync generation? % %Would appreciate all/any pointers. % %Ben %

28 years, 8 months

1
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HHCs

by bwit＠pobox.com

I must've fell off the list last week when the Internet went haywire and I've just resubscribed. From the tone of this message it would seem that the HHC deal fell thru. Would someone mind bringing me up to date? Thanks, Bob ---------- From: Sam Ismail[SMTP:dastar@crl.com] Sent: Thursday, July 24, 1997 6:15 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: re: HHCs On Thu, 24 Jul 1997, Gil Parrish wrote: > Message text written by Sam: > >I should have mentioned that in a couple months when the remaining units > are liberated, they will be up for grabs.< > > A suggestion. Why don't you start with the existing list of people who > were willing to pay for the units, and allocate one to each. If there > aren't enough to go around, then delete names in some random manner. If > there are units left over, then take the list of folks who requested more > than one and allocate them to those folks in some sort of random manner, > and so on. This is what I planned to do. I have retained the list. There were a total of 53 interested persons, so hopefully there will be enough for everyone. If there are extras then maybe we'll just hold a lottery.

28 years, 8 months

1
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VIC-20 Kernel Project

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by "Richard A. Cini, Jr." > For the last two years, I have been working on making a recompilable version of the VIC-20 Kernel ROM.< OK, I'm not afraid to ask the amateur question: Why? I'd love to see someone with good programming skills write some sophisticated software for the VIC-20, likely requiring at least a 16K expander or something. If your project will help lead to that, I'm all for it. Gil Parrish 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com

28 years, 8 months

1
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Some Great Deals

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by Greg Mast >On the other hand, I had a garage sale last weekend. Not one person interested in the piles of Apple, Commodore, Atari stuff. I mean, if you guys aren't going to garage sales to buy stuff, you're missing a lot of deals. Most of the stuff at the Goodwill has an old garage sale sticker on it.< Heck, if you're dumping stuff at garage sale prices, post the list here first! Probably nothing rare or particularly interesting, but you never know what somebody might be looking for. Gil Parrish 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com

28 years, 8 months

1
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CLASSICCMP digest 124

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Bruse Lane queried: <The VS2000 is the little square 'cube,' is it not? If so, I have a pair. <was planning on using one for a disk formatter. Yep the 1cuft vax., Has MFM disk interface for hds and 5.25" 1.2meg floppies and on the mainboard there is a 50 pin connector for SCSI. Plug a cable with 50pin berg into it and bring it out the bottom. The only SCSI device it will boot is TZK50 (TK50 with SCSI adaptor). However if you can get ultrix or VMS on a disk it both can use the SCSI to access otehr devices other tha boot. Also the printer port(9pin) if you pull pin 9to ground and boot it becomes the console for a terminal. FYI the disks that work with the vs2000 are st225/20meg HH, st251/40meg, RD52(quantum q540 31mb), RD53(micropolus 1325/71meg) and RD54(maxtor2190/150meg). Other drives with the same geometry can be used if you want to use it with media the rom knows. <??? How so? I've not worked enough with the stuff to guess at that one. Boot the OS, build a single user system on disk and use that to build a bootable tape. <A! That's IT!! Yes, I can do this! I can build Ultrix onto one of my <3100/M38's then, and use it for netbooting the VAXStation! Yes you can as most of the vaxen will mop boot if the NI is there. <Allison, if you were within range, you'd get a big hug! I even have an <honest-to-DEC RRD42 SCSI CD drive just waiting to be used. <If you could outline the steps for me, so I can have a printout to refer <to, I'd appreciate it. Thanks again! Wish I could. I know the outline only and that the capability is there. <BTW, can I also do the remote boot with OpenVMS? I picked up a Ver. 6.2 <distribution kit while I was in the Bay Area. Yes, and depending on the license you have with it(must have) you can also cluster them using NI. The cluster host can be any vaxen, the higest performing one you have is the logical choice. The alternate is booting as a diskless workstation or remote boot(localdisk for swapfiles). Vs2000s were commonly used as workstations with local swapdisks (rd52s or rd31s) or as decwindows terminals. FYI: vms without the license pak for it is marginally useful. Brief explanation of MOP boot. This is a DEC protocal that goes back to PDP-11s(they used serial lines for this!) and it was Maintenance Operations Protocal. It allowed one system to push code into another. It's protocal is fairly simple, the boot requestor puts a message on the NI that says BOOT ME and it's Eithernet hardware ID. The host is tasked with recognizing the address and feeding back the correct file usually a boot loader. The boot loader is more sophisticated and will then respond back saying ok lets use a better protocal and it then loads the one of three things, another bigger loader, VMSboot or untrixboot. After that point the protocal is usually either IP or DECnet though user selected protocals are possible. The actual application loaded is up the the designer/user and examples I've worked with were DIAGS, PrintServer (lps40/20/32), DECwindows, VMSworkstation remote boot and VMS cluster. Doing this on unix systems means you must have a operating host with networking running. The boot process from the requestor is the same but the host must have a daemon to handle the booting process. USually there are config files to manage this. Allison

28 years, 8 months

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Is there a DECsystem-ten emulator for free/shareware?

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

I heard there's 3 DEC-10 emulators, but all are commercial products (And therefore pretty expensive!). Are there any freeware or shareware ones?

28 years, 8 months

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Some Great deals on AuctionWeb

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> On the other hand, I had a garage sale last weekend. Not one person > interested in the piles of Apple, Commodore, Atari stuff. I mean, if you > guys aren't going to garage sales to buy stuff, you're missing a lot of > deals. Most of the stuff at the Goodwill has an old garage sale sticker > on it. I don't see many garage sales around here. Sometimes I get to radio rallies (hamfests, I think is the US term). But there is a car boot sale most Sunday mornings in the summer where I call in on the way home from church. Sometimes there is good stuff; sometimes there is awful stuff; last Sunday I saw (in the way of computers) a late model Commodore 64 (which I already have) without a price tag, and next to it a card advertising a Commodore PET (model unspecified) + disk drive + lots of disks, working but needs new cable (also unspecified) hence "low" price of L30 [delete] [delete] 25. Since I have five PETs already, I didn't bite. But even if it's a fat 40 (which I don't have yet) I'd be reluctant to pay as much as L25 (over $40) even in full working order, and certainly not without the disk drive cable (replacement easily obtainable _only_ on the 8032SK AFAIK). Still, enough moaning. I agree, this sort of sale is always worth a visit - you never know what interesting little goodies you might find there... Philip.

28 years, 8 months

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Commodore history

by ds_spenc＠alcor.concordia.ca

Does anyone know where Commodore was actually started? I've seen the Bronx and Toronto given as the site of the first Commodore shop, but the Bronx references have been made more recently. Apparently the official Commodore history at the World of Commodore show in Toronto (forget which year - 10th anniversary of the show I think, so 1993?) had a picture of the first little Commodore shop... in Toronto. Also, does anyone know where Commodore had production facilities in Canada? I have a VIC-20 with "Made in Canada" stamped on it, and I didn't realize that Commodore actually _made_ computers here. As another note of interest, both of my "Made in U.S.A." VIC-20s have serial numbers starting with "P". The "Made in Canada" VIC has "CC" instead. Did the letters record what plant the machine was manufactured or assembled in? CC = Canadian plant, P = Philadelphia or something? Heck, while I'm at it, does anyone know the exact date (or even the exact year) that Commodore purchased MOS Technology? I figured it would've been 1976, but I've seen documents referenced as from "Commodore/MOS Technology, Norristown, PA, 1975". Doug Spence ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca

28 years, 8 months

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Laser 3000

by ds_spenc＠alcor.concordia.ca

Just on the off chance that there's a different mix of people here now than when I first enquired some months ago... Does anyone here have disk drives, CP/M module, or documentation (especially the tech manual) for the Laser 3000 computer from Video Technology? How about the RS232 adapter, or the RGB cable? Computer Direct also sold these as the "Aplus 3000" (they used a marker to cover over the "Laser 3000" nameplate for the picture in the ad). Doug Spence ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca

28 years, 8 months

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HHCs

by dastar＠crl.com

One final word on the Panasonic hand-helds... I should have mentioned that in a couple months when the remaining units are liberated, they will be up for grabs. I don't want to get anyone's hopes up, but Mike mentioned that he would see if we could just get them for free if we pick up the shipping from Canada, since the company didn't seem interested in making a buck on them anyway. When the time arrives I'll bring it up. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 8 months

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I need a Commodore Plus/4 Video Cable

by dastar＠crl.com

Does anyone have a Commodore Plus/4 video cable for sale or trade? Please e-mail me directly if you do. Thanks. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 8 months

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HHCs

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by Sam: >I should have mentioned that in a couple months when the remaining units are liberated, they will be up for grabs.< A suggestion. Why don't you start with the existing list of people who were willing to pay for the units, and allocate one to each. If there aren't enough to go around, then delete names in some random manner. If there are units left over, then take the list of folks who requested more than one and allocate them to those folks in some sort of random manner, and so on. Anybody will take a "freebie", but the folks who committed to make this deal work ought to have the first shot at them. I'm just sorry the deal didn't work out as anticipated. And by the way-- if these aren't new-in-the-box units, I assume they won't be coming with an instruction manual? Gil Parrish 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com

28 years, 8 months

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The Rescuer's Conundrum

by jruschme＠hiway1.exit109.com

Or otherwise stated: What to do when the cost of reviving a rescued computer is as much as buying one of the same model? To explain, I recently rescued a Mac+ (2.5/40) which was being thrown out by my employer. When I got it, it would give intermittant Sad Mac errors. No problem, I figure I can replace the RAM with some surplus PC SIMMs. This fixes the Sad Macs, but after it heats up it dies with an "Address Error" bomb. Some board switching points to the motherboard (more specifically, the ROMs) as being the fault. Checking around, I see that the most common price for a Mac+ system board is $15 + shipping. As a last check, I call Intragate (intramac(a)aol.com), who has had good prices in the past, to find out their price. It turns our that they won't even quote me a price for the MB as they can get me an entire Mac+ system for $20. This has really left me in a quandry as to what to do. I really don't want to buy *another* one as I already have a working Mac Plus. Besides, what would I then do with *this one*? I suppose I could keep it for parts, but that seems a bit of a waste too. Any suggestions? Anyone with a spare set of Mac+ ROMs? Thanks in advance... <<<John>>> P.S. Anybody also know of a source for a LaserWriter Plus logic board, too?

28 years, 8 months

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Getting desperate...!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Would a VS3100/30 work for you? I don't know how you would then <install on the other machines, though (maybe you know more about <Ultrix than I do. You're guaranteed to know at least as much as I <do :-) ). < If you have a system running the CD then you can build a system to disk and netboot and netcopy the system to other machines. Vaxes will mopboot other vaxes. Allison

28 years, 8 months

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VIC-20 Kernel Project

by rcini＠msn.com

For those interested in the Commodore VIC-20... For the last two years, I have been working on making a recompilable version of the VIC-20 Kernel ROM. I started from a scan that I made of a crappy dot-matrix print-out and have a version that compiles with no errors. From this, I developed an assembler variable equates "include" file for all of the VIC-20 RAM and ROM locations. It's a little messy because I preserved the original address and op-code info to match against the assembler listing. So, you have to import it into Excel to strip that info out, save it as text, do some minor double-"double-quote" fixups and re-save it. I have also proven to myself that the compiland is the same as the ROM image by using a simple BASIC program to byte-compare the two files (my ROM image and a ROM image from the Finland Commodore ftp site). There are two versions of the "inc" file. One for recompiling the Kernel and one for ML program writers (to avoid double variable declarations). Right now, I'm working on documenting the code as best as I can. When that's done (I'm up to location $f400), I'll post it and the "inc" files. I would then look for you guys/gals to peer-review it and give me your comments. The finished product can go into our archive. Then, I'll probably work on the BASIC ROM. And so it goes... ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking

28 years, 8 months

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Getting desperate...!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From: "Lane, Bruce A" <B.Lane(a)PSS.Boeing.com> < Gad, I'm beginning to get a REALLY good idea of what searching for <tough-to-find's can be like! < < Here's the story. I have several MicroVAX II's. I need a way -- ANY <way! -- to boot from a CD-ROM on one or all of them. < OR (4): A later model of VAXen (maybe a 3500, 4000, or 5000 series) <that is designed to accomodate SCSI from the get-go, and can boot from a <CD-ROM. Or a 3100, or vs2000 they have SCSI. <As a last-gasp possibility, I do have a functional TK30 tape drive. Any <chance that, if I copy the Ultrix distribution CD to a CompacTape II <cartridge, it would be bootable by the MicroVAX? Not likely if it's a copy. Though you likely can build a tape from the copy. <Fellow DEC'ers, I'm getting desperate. Please help me out if you can! <I've got at least three systems sitting idle and gathering dust because <I can't boot a CD on them at the moment. Join the crowd. Of all my time in computers starting back with the PDP-8s I've had the problem of I have W and the machine can read Y. Right now my vaxen know only rx50, rx33, or tk50. My PC knows none of those and the PDP-11 has those and RL02. allison

28 years, 8 months

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Getting desperate...!

by B.Lane＠PSS.Boeing.com

Gad, I'm beginning to get a REALLY good idea of what searching for tough-to-find's can be like! Here's the story. I have several MicroVAX II's. I need a way -- ANY way! -- to boot from a CD-ROM on one or all of them. I NEED at least one of the following solutions. 1). (probably a pipe dream) An Andromeda Systems SCDC Q-bus/SCSI host adapter. I don't even care if it doesn't work; I can get it refurbished by the manufacturer. However, $2,500 new is way out of my range. OR (2): ANY QBus-to-SCSI board that can boot from a CD-ROM drive (I have a DEC RRD42). OR (3): A DEC RRD40 CD-ROM drive and controller (the early RRD's used a dedicated controller that, AFAIK, was compatible with any QBUS machine). OR (4): A later model of VAXen (maybe a 3500, 4000, or 5000 series) that is designed to accomodate SCSI from the get-go, and can boot from a CD-ROM. As a last-gasp possibility, I do have a functional TK30 tape drive. Any chance that, if I copy the Ultrix distribution CD to a CompacTape II cartridge, it would be bootable by the MicroVAX? Fellow DEC'ers, I'm getting desperate. Please help me out if you can! I've got at least three systems sitting idle and gathering dust because I can't boot a CD on them at the moment. Thanks in advance. Please reply to my other address: kyrrin(a)wizards.net ==Bruce Lane http://www.wizards.net/technoid

28 years, 8 months

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Info needed: VAXStation 3520 & others...

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

28 years, 8 months

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Some Great deals on AuctionWeb

by gmast＠polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu

Here's my update for the stuff I'm selling on AuctionWeb. There are a couple fairly rare items here. I just want to clear stuff out and get what I can for them so they will sell for the high bid. I recently sold a few things there really cheap, like in the $1 - $5 range for new Apple parts so I think overall the prices are down during the Summer. Anyway, here's the list. Just go to the link shown to bid and get more info. And drop me an email if you have a question beyond what's in the listing. Note the Apple Lisa Mouse and Apple III drive! **Note: I mistakenly listed this as an Apple II mouse when, from a couple emails, I was informed that it's actually an Apple Lisa Mouse. There is a picture at the listing. Old Apple Lisa Mouse! *** PHOTO *** Current bid: $15.50 Auction ends on: 07/25/97, 16:45:54 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=zjz242 Apple III External Floppy Drive **PHOTO** Current bid: $7.50 Auction ends on: 07/25/97, 10:43:32 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=nwr8950 Atari 520ST System With Floppy & More! Current bid: $8.50 Auction ends on: 07/25/97, 10:49:56 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=hrc0869 Apple IIe 80 Col/64K Expansion Card Bidding starts at: $1.00 Auction ends on: 07/26/97, 16:35:51 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=eix4345 Timex Sinclair 1000 w/16K Module/Software Current bid: $6.50 Auction ends on: 07/26/97, 16:46:22 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=ytc65252 Brand New Apple IIe Power Supply! Bidding starts at: $1.00 Auction ends on: 07/26/97, 16:59:52 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=ipi2331 Macintosh SE Power Supply! Current bid: $1.00 Auction ends on: 07/26/97, 17:35:06 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=lxm4715 Brand New Apple IIe Replacement Keyboard! Current bid: $5.51 Auction ends on: 07/27/97, 19:00:44 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=qsa5622 Atari Trackball Controller **photo** Bidding starts at: $2.00 Auction ends on: 07/27/97, 20:34:18 PDT http://www2.ebay.com/aw/itemfast.cgi?item=gsi241 Also, I have lots more computer stuff in the garage that has to go. Here's a brief list. I'll be listing everything on the auction in the next month or so. Apple IIe (3 ea) Apple IIc with monitor and power supply Apple IIe Color Monitor Apple Imagewriter II printer (3 ea) Macintosh 512k Pile of new Apple service parts for Mac plus, Mac II, Apple IIe, IIc, Imagewriter, more including power supplies, main boards, disk drives and more. Apple joysticks and paddle controllers Commodore 1702 color monitor Commodore 1541 drive (4 ea) Commodore 64 in box Piles of Commodore power supplies and cables, joysticks, etc Thanks for reading!

28 years, 8 months

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CLASSICCMP digest 122

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

From: Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk Subject: PET FAQ > What about the 8200 Series? I am not sure of the differences between this, the > 8000 series and the 500/700 (B/P) series - see my post earlier this week. I don't have ANY information on the 8200 series, I suspect that it was not widely released (or not at all) in the U.S. The 500/700 series are not in the PET line, those are the B-series machines and would be a separate FAQ - IMO. >> Large Keyboard PETs (no more internal datasette drive): >> PET 2001 xN (x=8,16,or 32 depending on amount or RAM it was shipped with) >> - Full-size key keyboard w/PET graphic symbols imprinted on keys > I dispute this. The 2001 xN, of which we had several at school, had the new > ROMs, the new motherboard (using 2332 ROM chips) but the small keyboard and the > built in C2N. This was the essential difference between the N and B machines. Have to disagree with you on this one, the 'calaulator keyboard' PETs seem to have the designation on 2001-8k or 2001-8/c (c referring to calculator keyboard). The N designation meant [N]on Business and [B]usiness style keyboards, both full-size, can find many sales ads and books to refer to on that one (though if I were running a business on a PET, I would have preferred the keyboard with the most keys...) >> - Upgrade ROMs >> - Many steel cased, some w/molded plastic tops. >> - many with clearer green on black displays >I thought all the N and B machines had green screens - we even had one straight >2001 (old ROM) with a green screen. I think Commodore still had extras in stock (also small yeyboards & tops), the blue screens aren't common but tere are some in later models (kinda like finding VIC-20 keyboards in C-64 units) >> - Later versions had 4.0 ROMs installed > Was this not only available as an upgrade? I am going by personal experience here, there were 8" diaply PETs sold with 4.0, I saw a couple come through our school. >> PET 2001 xB (labeled as CBM, Commodore Business Machine) >> - Full size xx key keyboard (no graphics symbols printed on keys) >> - Upgrade ROMs (powers up in upper/lower case mode) >> - Later versions had 4.0 ROMs installed >> - Many w/molded plastic tops some steel cased. > Our green-screened old-ROM machine was labelled CBM, but was again a small > keyboard/internal tape machine. Otherwise I remember little about the B > machines Hmmm, I have yet to see such an animal... But as I mentioned a few answers back, with Commodore's thriftyness anything was possible. :) >> PET/CBM 40xx Series (PET= N keyboard/ROM, CBM= B keyboard/ROM, xx= RAM) > I wasn't aware of a small keyboard 4000 series. Interesting. Again, N does not mean small keyboard. >> 80 column series (can be set to 40 column mode via software.) >Can it?!? I wasn't aware of this. You can restrict the area in which it prints >on the screen to an arbitrary rectangle, but it doesn't behave like the >40-column machines in that the screen is still physically 80-column, it doesn't >handle wrapped text, etc. On many of the Commodore P.D. disks there is a program called 4032.C (I think there is a .C on it...) it will bump your 8000 into a 40 columns to run the 40 column programs on the disk. > The 8200 series could be set from 80 to 40 columns by unsoldering and moving two > chips. I haven't done this to mine yet... Never heard of 'moving' chips, I read it was one of the ROMs (the one that supplies the startup values...) that determined 40 or 80 column (as well as video RAM memory too.) I guess you mean replacing two chips, then yes. Going back to 40 is a bit easier since you don't have to add RAM like in the 4000 PETs. > At this point you must mention the 8296 and 8296D! I'll have to dig up some solid info on this, as 'I said it is pretty uncommon here. >[... SUPERPET ...] Got one, still puzzles me, also how much space I should devote to it as I have only seen one (the one I bought recently). Will probably add more as I get more time and information not very many people have asked about them. >> MOTHERBOARD SERIES >> >> 2000 series(9" CRT) 3000 & 4000 series (8" CRT) >> IEEE user tape #2 IEEE user tape #1 >> +------####-####--##-+ +------####-####--##-+ >> ! # ! #! >> ! # ! #! >> ! # exp ! #! exp >> ! # bus ! ROMS #! bus >> ! # ! F E D C A B 9 #! >> ! # ! #! >> ! ! ! ! >> ! ! ! ! >> ! ROMS ! ! ! >> ! F E D C A B 9 ! ! ! >> ! ! ! ! >>tape # RAM MEMORY ! tape # RAM MEMORY ! >> #1 # ! #2 # ! >> +--------------------+ +--------------------+ >The left hand board is a hybrid of the original motherboard (of which there were >no fewer than _four_ versions). Remember the original motherboard used 2 >kilobyte (800 Hex) ROM chips (6540s in most, 2316s in some). The ROMS were >therefore not F E D C A B 9 but F8 F0 E D8 D0 C8 C0 'Programming the PET/CBM' gave me those diagrams and you are right about the ROM sizes... Will have to re-do that one. >The righthand motherboard was the 2000B and some of the 3000 - the tape ports >were swapped on the 2000N and other 3000 AFAIK. Will keep with Programming PET/CBMs numbering for now, I'm trying to answer questions not confuse people more... They should suffice all my machines except the original (of course) have the tape #2 on the inside. > 8200 series: Again this basic format, but rearranged so the separate keyboard > mod is sensible. 128k RAM on motherboard of which 96k usable (?). Again I have no data on the 8200 PET/CBMs, point me toward your FAQ on it... *grin* >> WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENCES AND/OR BUGS OF MY VERSION OF BASIC? >> Original ROMs >> Commodore had not yet implemented the IEEE-488 disk routines. Arrays are >> limited to 256 elements due to a bug in firmware. There is no machine >> language monitor nor could the PEEK command access locations above memory >> location 49152. The upper/lower case character set was inverted (SHIFT for >> lower case) (note: reading my sources there are ALOT of bugs, will take a >> while to compile them) >Some of these were not bugs but features. [so Microsoft would have Commodore believe...] >Peeking and poking in upper memory (thresholds vary!) were disabled to stop people >looking at the ROMS. [Common among early micros fortunately Commodore learend the > 'closed box means no 3rd party support' lesson early] >In the E page are some I/O addresses, so it is re-enabled from there upwards... >The only other genuine bugs I came across on my own machine (my first ever >computer was a PET - original ROMs, 13th birthday present in 1980) were one in >screen editing, and the machine crashes instead of giving the "too many files" >error. Just skimmed a bit about bugs with the Cassette routines. There was some usage problems on the PEEKs warning not to cluster them too close together... Facinating stuff... >> Added screen 'window' formatting control characters. >Only in 8000 series and fat 40, AFAIK. The small screen 4000 series did not >have the new screen controller or many of the new graphics features. I think you're right on that... still have to research that one more. >> HOW DO I ACCESS THE PET's M/L MONITOR? >> The 'timy machine language monitor' (known as TIM to some)... >TIM stood for Terminal Interface Monitor, according to my manual. Jim butterfield referred to it as Tiny Monitor in the First Book of VIC, thanks for the clarification. >> WHAT IS THE 'KILLER POKE' AND SHOULD I WORRY ABOUT IT?..... >[ Explanation with one or too inaccuracies has been snipped ] >The old "video controller" could not be put into a faster or a slower mode. It >was discrete TTL, and simply read the screen memory, shoved it through the >character ROM, and sent it to the monitor. It would not have affected printing >speed even if you had speeded it up. >The old PETs were slow because the SOFTWARE of the print character routine >waited for the interval between screen scans before updating the screen memory. >This reduced conflicts over the screen RAM which would have resulted in random >pixels (snow) being illuminated on the screen. There was an input on one of the >I/O chips which was hooked up to the video circuitry and told the routine when >to access the video RAM. >The famous poke was actually to another register of the I/O chip, and configured >this input as an output. The older pets didn't mind (much!), and the print >character routine saw the screen as always available, but on the later ones with >the new video controller, this conflicted with another output and caused the >video controller chip to do a wobbly (and could even have burnt out one or the >other). Will re-work that one, thanks for the description. >> IF PEEK(50000) THEN POKE 59458,PEEK(59458)OR 32 >NO!!!!!! Peek(50000) will only be zero on the original old ROM pets! Hmmm I know that program works on the big screen units... more research! >> CAN I HOOK UP AN EXTERNAL MONITOR TO MY PET? >> With the help of the following circuit you can get a composite singnal from >> the user port... >> Insert Video Diagram here.... >Don't use the one published in "The PET Revealed" by Nick Hampshire. It doesn't >work. DANG! It was such a neat plan too! Guess I'll have to forget that question for now (until I can find an alternative diagram.) Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 8 months

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Minicomputer Storage Myths

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 12:02 AM 7/23/97 -0400, you wrote: > Offhand, and I may offend a few sensibilities here, that folks who >care for computing's history should be willing to bear such short- >term inconveniences as medium-sized monetary expenditures. If you Well, I would gladly spend hundreds, or even thousands of dollars to save computers (and misc. other stuff I collect) from around the world. Problem is, I'm lucky if I've got enough $ to save me from going hungry. I'm not complaining, mind you (it's my own fault, really; spending all this money on silly computers and land rovers and stuff...) but just pointing out that a lot (most?) people simply *CAN'T* blow $200 on shipping a computer or what-have-you. Doesn't do much good to get an HP3000 series 3 if you then have to rip the guts out to live in it. I get the same story from people who say "Oh, you really ought to join the Y/club/whatever, it's not expensive" when what they really mean is "it's not expensive for me, but hey, I just bought a $50K BMW for my kid's 15th birthday." (I think there are those who get BMW's for their birthday, and those who get underwear. I got underwear.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 8 months

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Minicomputer Storage Myths

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 07:00 PM 7/22/97 +0100, you wrote: >Ok, they are a very convenient shape compared with Superbrains, Tandy >Model 4s and PETs. I only have a couple of PETs and they are a real >pain. What do other collectors do with these machines? Shelves. If you face them towards each other: _ _ |_\_ _/_| You can slip light boxes or what-have-you in between. Of course, us really *smart* people concentrate on portables... 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 8 months

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Minicomputer Storage Myths

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 12:42 PM 7/22/97 -0400, you wrote: >argument that minicomputers are too large to collect easily. I have one >word: "hogwash". My HP3000 (with HD's and cart tape) is in a case slightly larger (wider, possibly a bit deeper) than a standard full tower. The 9-track tape drive, of course, is in it's own 6-ft enclosure, but if I were smart, I could fit all the other 3000 bits inside the (empty) bottom. Hmmm... Wonder why I never thought of that before? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 8 months

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Info needed: VAXStation 3520 & others...

by H.Davies＠latrobe.edu.au

At 03:57 PM 7/23/97 +0000, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: >Lucky for me the man who runs it is a nice guy. And for about $100-200, I >may be able to get my hands on an 8550. Assuming I can re-assemble it, >it's been taken apart. This may be a real challenge. The Nautilus based systems (8800, 88x0, 8700, 85x0) have an interesting back plane using zif sockets. When the systems run they run, but when they go bad, they're horrible to fix. I spent a fair part of the last three years doing user maintenance on 8800s and an 8820 and I can tell you now that fixing these beasts can be a real pain. In particular, the diagnostics are unreliable at best. Even the professionals have problems, we had a Digital maintained 8800 die and after two weeks of three engineers they finally decided to ship a new system down from Sydney. Fortunately we managed to convince management to upgrade to newer systems. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "My Alfas keep me poor in a monetary Melbourne Australia 3083 | sense, but rich in so many other ways"

28 years, 8 months

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FWD: RSTS/E Manuals

by kyrrin＠wizards.NOSPAM.net

Fellow in SoCal's trying to get rid of some worthwhile-looking books. Anyone interested? -=-=- <snip> -=-=- I was surprised to receive no response whatsoever to my original post. When I started collecting PDPs, I grabbed all the documentation I could get my hands on. Maybe nobody runs RSTS any more. Maybe V9.0 manuals are too old. In any case, the manuals I described in my original post (below) go in the trash if not spoken for by Friday July 25. ---------- Greetings. Unfortunately, my interest in PDP-11s exceeds my available storage. I picked up a partial set of RSTS/E manuals a while back, but find I now need the space they occupy. These are the standard orange DEC binders, and most of the contents are still in shrink wrap. The partial set is as follows: ---------- System Management (Volume 2) System Manager's Guide System Usage (Volume 3) System User's Guide Guide to Writing Command Procedures Utilities (Volume 4) Utilities Reference Manual Introduction to the EDT Editor SORT/MERGE User's Guide RUNOFF User's Guide Utilities (Volume 4A) EDT Editor Manual Utilities (Volume 4B) Task Builder Reference Manual Programmer's Utilities Manual RT11 Utilities Manual TECO User's Guide BASIC-PLUS (Volume 5) BASIC-PLUS Language Manual System Programming (Volume 6) Programming Manual MACRO Programming (Volume 7) System Directives Manual ODT Reference Manual MACRO Programming (Volume 7A) MACRO-11 Language Manual RMS-11 MACRO Programmer's Guide RMS (Volume 8) RMS-11: An Introduction RMS-11 User's Guide RMS-11 Utilities ---------- These manuals are located in Southern CA. Shipping would be pretty expensive, and I would prefer not to have to pack them (e.g. preference granted to those who could pick them up). I am not looking for much (if anything) in return for these; I really just want them gone and suspect someone might need them. If you want me to pack and ship them, though, I will probably want something to offset my time and trouble (and shipping, of course). I am always looking for Q-bus hardware, and right now specifically for S-box (BA213) cabinet kits for a KA650 and a VCB02. Please send email to slinker(a)primenet.com if interested (NOTE: The email address in the header has an underscore "_" appended to foil spammers). Jeff. -- Jeff Shirley slinker(a)primenet.com Remove the underscore ("_") from the end of my email address when replying ** UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL/PROMOTIONAL EMAIL IS NOT ACCEPTED ** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ADDRESS ALTERED TO FOIL SPAMMERS: See below for address... Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin-at-wizards-dot-net http://www.wizards.net/technoid "...Spam is bad. Spam wastes resources. Spam is theft of service. Don't spam, period..."

28 years, 8 months

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Apple Lisa Owners??

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Welcome! Which Lisa model do you have? I have a Lisa 2/10 that is almost working. The hard drive install of Sun's version of MacWorks is apparently corrupt and it doesn't boot completely (or needs a boot floppy that I don't have). I'm loathe to fix the MacWorks install because I'd rather run the Lisa Office System. Problem is, the Lisa Office System is serialized, and, once installed, it will only reinstall on the same Lisa. There are some outfits around that will sell copies of the uninstalled disks for $170, which is a bit steep. I have an acquaintance at a local computer recycler who has a set and is willing to let me borrow them, but I'll have to set up a PC with two 720K drives (which I don't have handy) and a Copy II Option Board (which I do have) to dupe them. Kai > ---------- > From: Rob Bedeaux[SMTP:bede0005@gold.tc.umn.edu] > Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > Sent: Monday, July 21, 1997 7:25 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Apple Lisa Owners?? > > Hi all: > > This is my first post to ClassicCMP. Let me just start by sayin it is > > great to see how much interest there is out there in different Classic > > Computers!! > > I recently aquired an Apple Lisa and was wondering if anyone out there > > also had a working model. So far, I have a copy of the Lisa Office > System, the Lisa Tools, and MacWorks XL. What I'd like to find out is > > what other software for it was available and if anyone wants to get > rid > of it :) I know there is the workshop environment for programmin in > Pascal, and I think a version of Unix and Basic were realeased. But > what > about Fortan? Also on the hardware side. Does anyone know of any > cards > that were made for the expansion bays. I know that a parallel card > was > available, and also something called a Priam Card. Anything else? > Let's > see one final question. What about printer support. Was it limited > to > the Imagewriter I, Apple DMP and the daisy wheel one (can't remember > the > name). Can one use the Imagewriter II? How about other printers? > Well > thanks to anyone with any info > > Rob >

28 years, 8 months

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Minicomputer Storage Myths

by mpsayler＠cs.utexas.edu

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1969 16:00:00 +0000 ^^^^ From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Minicomputer Storage Myths X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Is that win 1895? :-) m@ [...] > My experience is that most computer hobbiests/hackers/engineers/etc. > tend to keep everything, especially when they have used to the stuff > before. As such, most people I know would much rather give it away than > throw it away ... and unless they have already given it away, they > probably still have it :)! -- /* Matt Sayler -- mpsayler(a)cs.utexas.edu -- Austin, Texas (512)457-0086 -- http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/mpsayler Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations? */

28 years, 8 months

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Minicomputer Storage Myths

by carl.friend＠stoneweb.com

In a few assorted threads I've seen under various names like "RSTS/E Manuals" and "Minis not 'Trendy'", several folks have put forward the argument that minicomputers are too large to collect easily. I have one word: "hogwash". For the most part, your typical minicomputer fits securely in a 19" wide rack. They're typically either around 5.5" or 11" high, or there- abouts, and they're usually 22-30" deep with some going a little deeper. They stack nicely for the most part as all the surfaces are at right angles to one another. They do weigh a certain amount, but usually do not top 100 pounds or so. Yes, collecting them does take creative space management. I noticed that one chap has installed his pdp11 under his bed; good call! I hadn't thought of that one... Another guy gripes about putting a mini in his Honda Civic for transport. My wife did just that when she came home with a DG Nova 1200 for me a few years back; it fit very comfortably in the trunk. I just got back from a trip to the US Midwest with two minis in two 6' bays in the back of my minivan (story coming on my website). Kevan has room in his loft for a half-dozen minis or so (looked at the pictures) once he gets things organised (sorry, Kevan) with space left over. I keep three minicomputers (half-height Novas) on a kitchen counter underneath our coffee-pot (I really should get a picture of that). I also have a small rack with three of my pdp11s in it living in the dining-room of our house - it makes a wonderful stand-up terminal stand. Smaller racks can be utilised as end-tables. The ultimate space-management tool in dealing with minis is the six-foot rack. In one of them you can mount an easy half-dozen machines; if you share peripherals, they can all be used too. Un- fortunately, my wife drew the line at that one, so I use the "scatter method" of space management. The bottom line is that _it's not as big a deal as it's made out to be_! It can be done, it should be done, and not enough people are doing it. The machines are disappearing - and that's a shame. ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | |________________________________________________|_____________________|

28 years, 8 months

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News from Apple

by dastar＠crl.com

Well, have you heard? Gilbert Amelio has stepped down and Steven Jobs has taken on an "expanded role". Interesting. Perhaps they'll re-introduce the Apple ][ line...perhaps the Apple IV??? (sorry, mostly off-topic but, hey, it's STEVE JOBS!!!) Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 8 months

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HHCs (bad news)

by dastar＠crl.com

I have some unfortunate news to pass along to everyone interested in the Panasonic HHCs. The deal is now off. Due to a lack of communication within the company that had the units, they were all, in the words of Mike Westin who was the go-between in the deal, "shit-canned". The company simply threw them out because they did not know there was an offer tendered. On the positive side, there are still roughly 50-75 units still left within the company that are still being used by employees, and will be so for about the next two months. Mike is currently developing a new product for the company, at which time they will no longer use the remaining units, and they will then, hopefully, be sold to us. So for now, no HHCs. Its disappointing, mostly because the thought of all these nice systems being simply thrown out is a damn shame. However, we may yet be able to acquire the remaining units in a couple month's time. Stay tuned. Sorry all. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 8 months

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Minicomputer Storage Myths

by ard＠siva.bris.ac.uk

> Offhand, and I may offend a few sensibilities here, that folks who >care for computing's history should be willing to bear such short- >term inconveniences as medium-sized monetary expenditures. If you >don't save a machine, it might be the _last_one_! (The odds of this >happening in the near term with micros is vanishingly small.) Depends on the micro. While IMHO it's true that Apple ]['s, PET's, TRS-80, etc are not exactly hard to find, there are some rather rare machines, like the Tandy Deluxe CoCo (something like 2 exist), a prototype Acorn that I can't remember the name of (M4???), the HH tiger (Prototype only), etc that are somewhat hard to find. It's quite possible that the next one of those that you see is the last! >| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | -tony

28 years, 8 months

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Minicomputer Storage Myths

by ard＠siva.bris.ac.uk

>For those still confused, the 1/2 RK07 was just the actual drive >mechanism. An entire RK07 is about 4 feet tall, the bottom is which is >basically empty. One design of RK07 stand can be modified to mount the drive about 12" hight than it should be. In my case this gave me a mounting for an EMI magtape and 4 flip-chip backplanes with no extra floor area. Not quite original DEC, of course.... > >William Donzelli -tony

28 years, 8 months

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FWD: RSTS/E Manuals

by ard＠siva.bris.ac.uk

[...] >And there are some minis in there amongst the micros: > >An HP 2100A CPU. Unfortunately it is the CPU only. No I/O, no >memory, no peripherals to speak of. Did get the CPU manuals with it, >though, and they have made interesting reading and probably will one >day again. I am not actively seeking the other bits right at the >moment but am keeping my eyes open. I found one of those in a skip (literally!) a few years back, and was allowed to rescue it. Mine came as the CPU box with 32K (I think) core, a lot of I/O cards (or at least I assume that's what they are), a paper tape reader and a somewhat mangled cartridge disk drive (1 fixed platter, one RK05-like cartridge). Alas no manuals. It looks like it could be got to run again, but as I know nothing about it, I've not put any time in on it yet.... > >Now *that* is sad: I am ignoring good stuff that I could probably >learn something about, maybe even learn something useful from. But I >am already having to come to terms with the fact that there is a lot >of stuff to learn, probably more than I can fit into one lifetime. Or >maybe I've just got a bad case of hardening of the brain? I don't >know. > >But I wonder how many other folks out there think to collect things >that they know stuff about, as opposed to stuff they don't know >anything about? I have to admit, the former makes a narrower >selection filter and the latter has gotten me into, um, unexpected >learning experiences (yeah, that's it) more often than not. And >for most people the "things they know stuff about" is more likely to be >micros than minis. I swap between the 2 'modes'. Sometimes I'll get a machine because I know what it is, and because I remember it. The Tandy M4 I bought a couple of weeks ago fits in here - I grew up on a Tandy Model 1, and remember the M4 coming out. I wanted one then, but could never afford it. Now I can, and can run those programs from 80-micro.... But more often I get a machine because I have no idea what it is, but it looks interesting. The P850 (the machine that seriously started me collecting) fits in here. As do the PERQs - I thought it was a 68000 box when I got the first one, and was amazed to see a soft-microcoded CPU. Learning from such a machine is great fun... [...] >(Yes, I am apt to collect this sort of documentation in the absence of >hardware too -- I am more a programmer than a hardware guy and I I certainly grab schematics and printsets without the hardware that goes with them - you never know what will turn up later.... >mostly understand computers in terms of how to wrangle code for them. >And I really stand in awe of folks like you who can understand them in >terms of hardware too -- another thing that is on my to-learn list.) It's not that hard. What started me off was getting a relatively simple minicomputer - I'd recomend either the PDP8/e or the PDP11/05 as a starter, and sitting down with the machine, the technical manual, and the printsets. I single-stepped the machine, and watched how it executed an instruction with a logic probe. I where the microcode went, what gates were enabled, etc, and related it to the diagrams in the manual. After a couple of days I could understand most of the instructions.... >Got any pointers to where we could learn more? Yep... CPU Technical manuals from the late 1960's - early 1970's. Most of those include a gate-level description of the CPU operation. It helps a lot to have the machine in front of you, though. > >-Frank McConnell -tony

28 years, 8 months

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Minicomputer Storage Myths

by carl.friend＠stoneweb.com

On Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:47:54 -0700 (PDT), Mr. Ismail remarked: > Sure, I'll just needlessly add to my current mountain of debt. > There is a practical limit to what any individual can do or be > expected to do. I'm not going to over-burden myself over a hobby. Sorry about that, Sam. I didn't think the cattle-prod was turned on. :-) ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | |________________________________________________|_____________________|

28 years, 8 months

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FWD: RSTS/E Manuals

by fmc＠reanimators.org

William Donzelli <william(a)ans.net> writes: > > An HP 2100A CPU. Unfortunately it is the CPU only. No I/O, no > If you ever want cards in the future, I would start looking now. HP > circuit boards are COMPLETELY gold plated (even under the green coating), > and are loved by scrappers everywhere. Good point. If you want to see something really scary in that regard, open up an HP 9000 series 5xx and look at the CPU boards. Those *really* look like gold, closer to solid than plated. I was looking (mostly for the memory) a bit more intensely a couple of years ago, and found that 2100 parts were also in demand to keep running systems running. > I must agree with you here. DEC makes great stuff (mostly), but so do > some of the other guys. Personally, I am starting to shift into the IBM > world, as it really has been ignored by historians (other than Paul > Pierce (who must be laughing at us weenies and our problems storing minis > and micros) and IBM itself). Yep. The mini world was kind of wide there for a while. I expect some of those machines really are gone forever. Has anyone here ever heard of a company called Digital Systems Corporation, based somewhere in (I think) the Maryland suburbs of Washington DC in the late 1970s, maybe into the 1980s? I worked on something of theirs once, called a Galaxy/5. Never heard of it or them since. Come to think of it, there could be good reasons for that, and it could be a good thing. Nah...we've got to keep the failures around too -- learning from mistakes is so much better when they're someone else's mistakes. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 8 months

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Minicomputer Storage Myths

by carl.friend＠stoneweb.com

On Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:03:32 -0700 (PDT), Mr. Ismail was rumoured to have remarked: > [...] Tim was complaining that nobody wanted the stuff, but the fact > is, who wants to spend hundreds of dollars in shipping or > transportation charges? Offhand, and I may offend a few sensibilities here, that folks who care for computing's history should be willing to bear such short- term inconveniences as medium-sized monetary expenditures. If you don't save a machine, it might be the _last_one_! (The odds of this happening in the near term with micros is vanishingly small.) > [...] that's all fine and dandy if you're a bachelor or your wife > could care less what kind of crap you drag into the house. [...] > She has problem enough with the garage full of crap. Oddly enough, Diana and I have been together now for the better part of a decade, and while she occasionally grumbles about my hobby, she supports it because she knows that it's important (not just to me, but for a larger cause as well). I believe the use of the term "crap" comes from fundamental misunderstandings of our common computing history. Sad. > Right now I'm not fully prepared to start taking in large systems > (larger than S-100 rackmounts). I'm not going to give up my living > space for the hobby. It all depends upon how seriously we take our hobby, doesn't it. (That was merely an observation, _not_ an editorial comment!) For what it's worth, an IMSAI is just about twice the size of a pdp11/23. And less than a quarter of the CPU power. ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 | |________________________________________________|_____________________|

28 years, 8 months

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Lonesome Minicomputer Owner

by impeesa＠arrakis.es

Hello all, I own a Honeywell 716 Minicomputer, in running order. It?s a general purpose 16-bit machine, with 128 KB of ferrite core memory, a cassette tape device, a front panel as main console, and an ASR-33 Teletype as operator's console. There were other peripherals, such as line printers, fixed disks, card reader-puncher, high-speed paper tape reader, 9" tape decks... but I only own the basic system. The system was designed (aprox.) in June 1972. Has anybody ever heard about such machine? I?ve spent some time looking through the net, and looks like I?m the only one I own that system. Perhaps Honeywell didn?t made lots of them, like DEC did with PDP's. I?ve read somewhere (don?t know if it?s true) that first nodes in Arpanet were Honeywell DDP 516. I think my system is the next model (Honeywell DDP 716). In fact, mine can execute H-516's instructions set. I also heard U.S.Navy used these systems for shot calculations. If anybody has any information about the Honeywell DDP 516 or 716 machines, please email me. I?m looking for somebody who worked with those systems or even better, somebody who owns one of them. Thanks in advance. -- Sergio Izquierdo Garc?a ** Computer collector ** mailto: impeesa at arrakis dot es

28 years, 8 months

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DG Hardware Available

by carl.friend＠stoneweb.com

In mail ID number 9707221139.AA13838(a)alph02.triumf.ca, Mr. Tim Shoppa laments: > What I'm amazed at is that I've got several thousands pounds of > Data General Eclipse S/130's up here in B.C. - machines with full > toggle-and-light front panels - and I'm unable to give them away. This is a crying shame. For plain beauty, the S/130 rivals, and to some, outranks even the much-vaunted IMSAI. For raw speed in a minicomputer the 16-bit line from DG was virtually without peer. Yes, some late -11s surpassed the raw power of the Nova instruction set, but it was years behind DG. We'd better save these machines while we can; Data General was, at its zenith only about 20% of the size of DEC, and its install- base was similar in scope. These machines are _not_ common, remain useable today, and are a joy to look at and run. Don't let the opportunity pass. > Are classic minis, including PDP-11's and DG mini's only items for > the junk heap? I, for one, certainly hope not. Part of the misconception about minicomputers is that they take up huge amounts of space. Yes, individual examples are larger than the average microcomputer; however, minicomputers stack nicely, can be stored very compactly in rack-mounts, and being squared off, can occupy corners very well. They're not as space-intensive as one might think. They're usually faster than most micros, too. While minis don't, right now, get the blast of attention that machines like the IMSAIs do (why is that machine so popular? War Games, maybe?), they are a valuable link to computing's history and they're disappearing from existance very quickly. Without Mr. Shoppa's efforts, better than a dozen of these wonderful systems would have been shipped to the scrappers without a second thought. And that would be too bad. ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | |________________________________________________|_____________________|

28 years, 8 months

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RL02 (was Questions about 'BOOT')

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> The PDP-11 were medium blue, light gray(officially it was grey #68) and <> magenta at various times and combinations. < <It seems to me that the PDP-11/60s were in red cabinets (in fact, <introduced as "the Big Red Machine"). We had one in the support lab and it wasn't red! It was lite blue and gray combo. The only big reds were the system-20s. Allison

28 years, 8 months

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FWD: RSTS/E Manuals

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> writes: > Are classic minis, including PDP-11's and DG mini's only items for the > junk heap? No, but speaking for myself I am short on space at the moment (and don't see it getting better for a while), lacking organization (working on that one), short on time (which constrains both of the above), and short of space between my ears too (too doggone many learning experiences this last year or so and a medium-sized list of some I have yet to get to). This Sunday I told someone "you know, I sometimes think I should stop collecting and get to work with the stuff I have." Which is enough to fill one 10'x10' (figure 3mx3m) storage closet to where it's not too difficult to get to stuff and make a pretty good showing of boxed manuals and magnetic media in another. Certainly most of it needs some sort of work. And there are some minis in there amongst the micros: An HP 2100A CPU. Unfortunately it is the CPU only. No I/O, no memory, no peripherals to speak of. Did get the CPU manuals with it, though, and they have made interesting reading and probably will one day again. I am not actively seeking the other bits right at the moment but am keeping my eyes open. Two HP 3000/37 CPUs, and enough disk drives and other bits to make one of 'em work. Well, they're a little bit small for minis, at least if you consider just the CPU box. An HP Micro 3000GX, currently taking up space in my workroom, with a 7970E 1600BPI tape drive that gives the resident manager hives -- it's big and metal therefore it must be heavy, right? (I live in the apartment above her.) Can I call this a mini? It runs the same code that used to run on bigger 3000s, but it calls itself a "Micro" (and fits entirely in a little tower case that with packing material and box weighs 78 pounds -- what's that, 35kg?). Is it part of the colllection? Hard to say, I used to do real work on it, but I wouldn't part with it.... An HP 9000/520, but there we are straying away from minis into early 1980s supermicro/workstation sorts of things. Various manuals for the above, as well as other systems in the 3000 and 21xx families. Also manuals and print sets for a Nuclear Data ND812 mini. A few odd parts: HP 3000/III front door with panel (found this on a 19" rack at Foothill swap meet -- the guts were gone and I really don't need another empty 19" rack then or now); two HP 3000/CX front doors, goldenrod; probably other stuff that slips my mind right now. You may have noticed a preponderance of HP hardware in the above list. That is because it is what I know something about (have been doing stuff with 3000s for close to 20 years now, have dialed up 2000 time-shared BASIC systems way back when and know they are based on the 21xx-family CPUs (as are the early HP 1000 systems), and supported a product on the 9000/500 for a little while and came to appreciate its quirks). I don't know that much about DEC gear, and next to nothing about DG stuff -- never used it at all. Now *that* is sad: I am ignoring good stuff that I could probably learn something about, maybe even learn something useful from. But I am already having to come to terms with the fact that there is a lot of stuff to learn, probably more than I can fit into one lifetime. Or maybe I've just got a bad case of hardening of the brain? I don't know. But I wonder how many other folks out there think to collect things that they know stuff about, as opposed to stuff they don't know anything about? I have to admit, the former makes a narrower selection filter and the latter has gotten me into, um, unexpected learning experiences (yeah, that's it) more often than not. And for most people the "things they know stuff about" is more likely to be micros than minis. There's another point in there too: I've consciously ignored DEC stuff (or passed it on to other more interested folks) for the simple reason that there seemed to me to be a pretty active community working on preserving it already! But DG stuff is another matter, I just haven't really noticed much of it or much discussion of it. OK Tim, you've guilt-tripped me...a little bit. But I'm still wondering what I could do with and learn from some of this stuff. What would I need to make a workable system? I expect the definition of "workable" is variable amongst the readership, but I could amuse myself for a while looking at an instruction set reference card and having Real Iron on which to toggle in a lights hack would be a nice bonus. (Yes, I am apt to collect this sort of documentation in the absence of hardware too -- I am more a programmer than a hardware guy and I mostly understand computers in terms of how to wrangle code for them. And I really stand in awe of folks like you who can understand them in terms of hardware too -- another thing that is on my to-learn list.) Maybe it takes more to interest other folks, like the ability to hook up and use terminal and/or storage devices. Maybe even load some sort of operating system if that's what was customary on these things; I'd probably want to get there someday myself. (Of course that poses its own problem of where to get the operating software.) I don't know, like I said I really don't know anything about DG hardware as it was used in practice -- my background is in DP/MIS, datacomm, HP 3000s, and nowadays sticking IP-protocol-suite stuff into Windows device drivers. Got any pointers to where we could learn more? -Frank McConnell

28 years, 8 months

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Minicomputer Storage Myths

by ard＠siva.bris.ac.uk

From: MX%"classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu" 22-JUL-1997 17:47:54.16 To: MX%"classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu" CC: Subj: Minicomputer Storage Myths > In a few assorted threads I've seen under various names like "RSTS/E >Manuals" and "Minis not 'Trendy'", several folks have put forward the >argument that minicomputers are too large to collect easily. I have one >word: "hogwash". Absolutly! My parents (who have to put up with and store most of my little collection) don't like storing micros (in fact they moan for days when I bring home a TRS-80 or some such), but don't seem to mind the PDP11's/PDP8's etc anything like as much. The reason is simple. Micros are a pain to store. You can't easily stack them (the ones at the bottom get mangled, the pile slips over, etc). Monitors are worse. But minicomputers (generally) come in 19" boxes that either go into a 6' (or taller!) cabinet, or get stacked up in a pile in the corner. They are easy to store. The floor area taken up by a 6' rack is not much larger than the area taken by a micro, BTW... > I noticed that one chap has installed his pdp11 under his bed; good >call! I hadn't thought of that one... I've considered designing a bed with 3 6U or 9U rack bays under it. In the UK you can get beds with storage drawers under them, but one _designed_ for computers would be somewhat interesting... > Another guy gripes about putting a mini in his Honda Civic for >transport. My wife did just that when she came home with a DG Nova 1200 >for me a few years back; it fit very comfortably in the trunk. I just >got back from a trip to the US Midwest with two minis in two 6' bays >in the back of my minivan (story coming on my website). A large estate car (Station wagon?) will carry a _lot_ of minicomputer hardware. I've been in one which contained : A PDP8/e A PDP11/44 A Sun 3/260 (on its side, on top of the PDP's) A PPL graphics display + trackball A northstar Horizon (OK, a micro, but in a 19" rack) An Acorn System 4 (ditto) A _lot_ of spare boards, drives, heads, etc Service manuals, printsets, etc. No problem at all. > The ultimate space-management tool in dealing with minis is the >six-foot rack. In one of them you can mount an easy half-dozen >machines; if you share peripherals, they can all be used too. Un- >fortunately, my wife drew the line at that one, so I use the "scatter >method" of space management. Odd... My parents _like_ big rack cabinets - in fact they grab them for me to put my machines in. Maybe I'm just lucky. > The bottom line is that _it's not as big a deal as it's made out >to be_! It can be done, it should be done, and not enough people are >doing it. The machines are disappearing - and that's a shame. That's exactly why I started. I realised (10 years ago) that nobody was preserving the recent history of computing, and it was going to be lost for ever. So I did something. I started collecting and restoring computers. >| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | -tony

28 years, 8 months

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RL02 (was Questions about 'BOOT')

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Yes...most PDP-11 gear is that funky purple color...The early VAXen <were blue, the later VAXen were brown. Magenta is that funky pinkish purple. None of the vaxen I know of are brown, coffee stained maybe. The Vaxen were light grey (almost white) and medium blue or light grey and dark gray(with a coco-ish cast). The PDP-11 were medium blue, light gray(officially it was grey #68) and magenta at various times and combinations. PDP10s were litght blue and the system 20s were poppy orange. Most systems DEC made were by the early 80s gray 68 with some darker gray. There would be one stnadrad light grey (sorta eggshell) and about five darker greys like the TK50 carts, insets for micro11, pro350 and the insets for the BA11 pannel. Allison

28 years, 8 months

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Minicomputer Storage Myths

by ard＠siva.bris.ac.uk

>Ok, they are a very convenient shape compared with Superbrains, Tandy >Model 4s and PETs. I only have a couple of PETs and they are a real >pain. What do other collectors do with these machines? Put them on top of piles of minicomputers :-). Seriously, I _have_ used chipboard/shelf brackets to make 'tunnels' that fit over the crazier shaped machines (PETs, etc), so that I can stack other things on top. If you do this, and decide to run the machines that inside the tunnels, then please add fans or at least make sure air can get into the cooling vents. >On the down side for storage space the manuals for minicomputers are >normally far more extensive than the typical 1/2" thick A4/A5 manual you >get with a micro. Indeed. I have a large pile of DEC printsets + A4 binders of user guides, etc. Mind you, the 8 IBM Techref manuals (PC, XT, AT vol1, AT vol2, O&A vol 1, O&A vol 2, Scientific O&A, PC-jr) take up quite a bit of space as well... >-- >Kevan -tony

28 years, 8 months

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Minicomputer Storage Myths

by ard＠siva.bris.ac.uk

From: MX%"classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu" 22-JUL-1997 17:57:36.60 To: MX%"classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu" CC: Subj: Re: Minicomputer Storage Myths >Wanna here a crying shame!? I only collect micros, simply because I'm not >at all familiar with Unix, Vax, or any flavor thereoff. I have an 18X24 >room in the basement of my house devoted to not just storing my collection, >but having it setup and running. If I knew more about these machines, I'd >probably love to have one. That's no excuse! :-). When I got my first minicomputer I knew absolutely nothing about them (I'd never used a front panel, had only vague ideas on how a processor worked at gate level, etc). I suspect the rest is true of some other serious collectors on this list. Still, I sat down with the machine, and even more importantly the service manual, and I figured it out. It didn't take that long. And I didn't have a group of experts to turn to, either. -tony

28 years, 8 months

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PET FAQ

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

I have some comments on the PET FAQ, but I've lost Larry Anderson's e-mail address. Accordingly I am posting it here, with apologies to all who don't wish to read it. > WHAT MODELS OF THE PET ARE THERE? > > The PET line was Commodore's first computer line after purchasing MOS > Technologies the primary design of the computer (as well as its > microprocessor, the 6502) was by Chuck Peddle. The line was labeled in > series' the first series, the 2001 series, the european 3000 series, and the > modern 4000 and 8000 series, and the final single unit 9000 series which is > the SuperPET. What about the 8200 Series? I am not sure of the differences between this, the 8000 series and the 500/700 (B/P) series - see my post earlier this week. I have also heard that the 8200 series runs BASIC 4.5, but mine runs 4.0. [...] > Large Keyboard PETs (no more internal datasette drive): > PET 2001 xN (x=8,16,or 32 depending on amount or RAM it was shipped with) > - Full-size key keyboard w/PET graphic symbols imprinted on keys I dispute this. The 2001 xN, of which we had several at school, had the new ROMs, the new motherboard (using 2332 ROM chips) but the small keyboard and the built in C2N. This was the essential difference between the N and B machines. > - Upgrade ROMs > - Many steel cased, some w/molded plastic tops. > - many with clearer green on black displays I thought all the N and B machines had green screens - we even had one straight 2001 (old ROM) with a green screen. > - Later versions had 4.0 ROMs installed Was this not only available as an upgrade? > PET 2001 xB (labeled as CBM, Commodore Business Machine) > - Full size xx key keyboard (no graphics symbols printed on keys) > - Upgrade ROMs (powers up in upper/lower case mode) > - Later versions had 4.0 ROMs installed > - Many w/molded plastic tops some steel cased. Our green-screened old-ROM machine was labelled CBM, but was again a small keyboard/internal tape machine. Otherwise I remember little about the B machines > PET/CBM 40xx Series (PET= N keyboard/ROM, CBM= B keyboard/ROM, xx= RAM) I wasn't aware of a small keyboard 4000 series. Interesting. > - 4.0 ROMs > - molded plastic top > 12" displays - updated video controller (prone to the 'killer poke') > - internal piezo speaker, audible startup, and right margin sound. > - 4.0 ROMs > PET/CBM 40xx (PET= N keyboard/ROM, CBM= B keyboard/ROM, xx= RAM) > - 40 x 25 display, upgradable to 80 columns > - lower case availabe by CHR$(14) which also changes line spacing. > 80 column series (can be set to 40 column mode via software.) Can it?!? I wasn't aware of this. You can restrict the area in which it prints on the screen to an arbitrary rectangle, but it doesn't behave like the 40-column machines in that the screen is still physically 80-column, it doesn't handle wrapped text, etc. The 8200 series could be set from 80 to 40 columns by unsoldering and moving two chips. I haven't done this to mine yet... [...] At this point you must mention the 8296 and 8296D! [... SUPERPET ...] > MOTHERBOARD SERIES > > 2000 series(9" CRT) 3000 & 4000 series (8" CRT) > IEEE user tape #2 IEEE user tape #1 > +------####-####--##-+ +------####-####--##-+ > ! # ! #! > ! # ! #! > ! # exp ! #! exp > ! # bus ! ROMS #! bus > ! # ! F E D C A B 9 #! > ! # ! #! > ! ! ! ! > ! ! ! ! > ! ROMS ! ! ! > ! F E D C A B 9 ! ! ! > ! ! ! ! >tape # RAM MEMORY ! tape # RAM MEMORY ! > #1 # ! #2 # ! > +--------------------+ +--------------------+ The left hand board is a hybrid of the original motherboard (of which there were no fewer than _four_ versions). Remember the original motherboard used 2 kilobyte (800 Hex) ROM chips (6540s in most, 2316s in some). The ROMS were therefore not F E D C A B 9 but F8 F0 E D8 D0 C8 C0 The righthand motherboard was the 2000B and some of the 3000 - the tape ports were swapped on the 2000N and other 3000 AFAIK. > 4000/8000 series (12" CRT) > IEEE user tape #1 > +------####-####--##-+ > ! # # tape > ! # # #2 > ! R exp bus # ! > ! A #! 2000 Series > ! M 9 #! circa 1977/78 Max RAM - 8k > ! A #! [daughterboard exp to 32k] > ! M R B ! > ! E O C ! 3000 & 4000 Series > ! M M D ! circa 1979/80 Max RAM - 32k > ! O S E ! > ! R F ! 4000 & 8000 Series > ! Y ! circa 1981 Max RAM - 32k* > ! spkr! [daughterboard exp to 96k] > +--------------------+ 8200 series: Again this basic format, but rearranged so the separate keyboard mod is sensible. 128k RAM on motherboard of which 96k usable (?). > WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENCES AND/OR BUGS OF MY VERSION OF BASIC? > > Original ROMs > Commodore had not yet implemented the IEEE-488 disk routines. Arrays are > limited to 256 elements due to a bug in firmware. There is no machine > language monitor nor could the PEEK command access locations above memory > location 49152. The upper/lower case character set was inverted (SHIFT for > lower case) (note: reading my sources there are ALOT of bugs, will take a > while to compile them) Some of these were not bugs but features. Peeking and poking in upper memory (thresholds vary!) were disabled to stop people looking at the ROMS. In the E page are some I/O addresses, so it is re-enabled from there upwards... The only other genuine bugs I came across on my own machine (my first ever computer was a PET - original ROMs, 13th birthday present in 1980) were one in screen editing, and the machine crashes instead of giving the "too many files" error. [...] > Added screen 'window' formatting control characters. Only in 8000 series and fat 40, AFAIK. The small screen 4000 series did not have the new screen controller or many of the new graphics features. [...] > HOW DO I ACCESS THE PET's M/L MONITOR? > > The 'timy machine language monitor' (known as TIM to some) is available on all > PETs but the original ROM version. TIM is invoked by executing a BRK > instruction by SYSing any memory location containing a zero (0), most people > enter SYS 1024, as it almost always contains a 0. TIM stood for Terminal Interface Monitor, according to my manual. [...] > WHAT IS THE 'KILLER POKE' AND SHOULD I WORRY ABOUT IT? > > This is THE POKE of computer lore, the command that WILL physically break a > computer! Of course other commands and methods are known that can > potentially cause damage (usually to disks, hard drives or other mechanical > units), but this is the most notable mainly because it was a command somewhat > commonly used and it affects solid-state circuitry. > History of 'the killer poke' [ Explanation with one or too inaccuracies has been snipped ] The old "video controller" could not be put into a faster or a slower mode. It was discrete TTL, and simply read the screen memory, shoved it through the character ROM, and sent it to the monitor. It would not have affected printing speed even if you had speeded it up. The old PETs were slow because the SOFTWARE of the print character routine waited for the interval between screen scans before updating the screen memory. This reduced conflicts over the screen RAM which would have resulted in random pixels (snow) being illuminated on the screen. There was an input on one of the I/O chips which was hooked up to the video circuitry and told the routine when to access the video RAM. The famous poke was actually to another register of the I/O chip, and configured this input as an output. The older pets didn't mind (much!), and the print character routine saw the screen as always available, but on the later ones with the new video controller, this conflicted with another output and caused the video controller chip to do a wobbly (and could even have burnt out one or the other). [...] > IF PEEK(50000) THEN POKE 59458,PEEK(59458)OR 32 NO!!!!!! Peek(50000) will only be zero on the original old ROM pets! > CAN I HOOK UP AN EXTERNAL MONITOR TO MY PET? > > With the help of the following circuit you can get a composite singnal from > the user port... > > Insert Video Diagram here.... Don't use the one published in "The PET Revealed" by Nick Hampshire. It doesn't work. [...] <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Bloedem Volke unverstaendlich treiben wir des Lebens Spiel. Grade das, was unabwendlich fruchtet unserm Spott als Ziel. Magst es Kinder-Rache nennen an des Daseins tiefem Ernst; Wirst das Leben besser kennen, wenn du uns verstehen lernst. Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk

28 years, 8 months

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Preliminary PET FAQ

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

A very complete Commodore ROM Geneology is in MICRO Issue 41, October '81. I have a copy in my PET Service Reference Guide, but it's 4 pages of tables and has handwritten additions that would be difficult to OCR. If you're a PET fan you might have this issue around anyway. By the way, the Service Reference Guide is a priceless piece; all schematics and test instructions, plus diagnostic cassettes and floppies. I have most of the Commodore "Techtopics" monthly bulletins also. Kai > ---------- > From: Larry Anderson & Diane Hare[SMTP:foxnhare@goldrush.com] > Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > Sent: Monday, July 21, 1997 9:48 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Preliminary PET FAQ > > I figured I'd shoot this by you guys as I am getting closer to putting > it on my web site. I am sure I will get some good criticism from you > all. If you have any additions/suggestions or additional questions to > include, let me know. > > I also plan also to add in a couple texts on disk drive usage some PET > memory maps (gee there are barely any PET maps on the net!) and if I > don't find a link to one, an overview of Commodore PET BASIC (applies > to > 64 also). > > (view with a monospaced font for best results) > > THE COMMODORE PET COMPUTER > FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS FILE - VERSION 1.0beta > --------------------------------------------- > BY LARRY ANDERSSON, > COMMODORE COLLECTOR AND PET ENTHUSIAST > --------------------------------------------- > > WHAT MODELS OF THE PET ARE THERE? > > The PET line was Commodore's first computer line after purchasing > MOS > Technologies the primary design of the computer (as well as its > microprocessor, > the 6502) was by Chuck Peddle. The line was labeled in series' the > first > series, the 2001 series, the european 3000 series, and the modern > 4000 > and > 8000 series, and the final single unit 9000 series which is the > SuperPET. > > 9" display units (40 column x 25 line character only display): > PET 2001series: > Original PET: > - Steel case - Internal 'datasette' cassette tape > drive > - Blue on black 9" display - Small 'calculator style' keyboard > - Small shipment with 4k, most with 8k RAM > - Original ROMs > Large Keyboard PETs (no more internal datasette drive): > PET 2001 xN (x=8,16,or 32 depending on amount or RAM it was > shipped > with) > - Full-size key keyboard w/PET graphic symbols imprinted on keys > - Upgrade ROMs > - Many steel cased, some w/molded plastic tops. > - many with clearer green on black displays > - Later versions had 4.0 ROMs installed > PET 2001 xB (labeled as CBM, Commodore Business Machine) > - Full size xx key keyboard (no graphics symbols printed on keys) > - Upgrade ROMs (powers up in upper/lower case mode) > - Later versions had 4.0 ROMs installed > - Many w/molded plastic tops some steel cased. > PET/CBM 40xx Series (PET= N keyboard/ROM, CBM= B keyboard/ROM, xx= > RAM) > - 4.0 ROMs > - molded plastic top > 12" displays - updated video controller (prone to the 'killer poke') > - internal piezo speaker, audible startup, and right margin sound. > - 4.0 ROMs > PET/CBM 40xx (PET= N keyboard/ROM, CBM= B keyboard/ROM, xx= RAM) > - 40 x 25 display, upgradable to 80 columns > - lower case availabe by CHR$(14) which also changes line spacing. > 80 column series (can be set to 40 column mode via software.) > CBM 80xx > - 80 x 25 display, powers-up in upper/lower case. > - buisness xx key keyboard > - later versions had 64k & 96k RAM expansion board options. > - 4.0 ROMs > PET SP9000 SuperPET (or Micro Mainframe) > - 80 x 25 display - 6809 co-processor board > - 96k RAM - True RS-232 interface > - Multiple charactersets (for APL, etc.) > - Avalability of disk Based languages > > MOTHERBOARD SERIES > > 2000 series(9" CRT) 3000 & 4000 series (8" CRT) > IEEE user tape #2 IEEE user tape #1 > +------####-####--##-+ +------####-####--##-+ > ! # ! #! > ! # ! #! > ! # exp ! #! exp > ! # bus ! ROMS #! bus > ! # ! F E D C A B 9 #! > ! # ! #! > ! ! ! ! > ! ! ! ! > ! ROMS ! ! ! > ! F E D C A B 9 ! ! ! > ! ! ! ! > tape # RAM MEMORY ! tape # RAM MEMORY ! > #1 # ! #2 # ! > +--------------------+ +--------------------+ > > 4000/8000 series (12" CRT) > IEEE user tape #1 > +------####-####--##-+ > ! # # tape > ! # # #2 > ! R exp bus # ! > ! A #! 2000 Series > ! M 9 #! circa 1977/78 Max RAM - 8k > ! A #! [daughterboard exp to 32k] > ! M R B ! > ! E O C ! 3000 & 4000 Series > ! M M D ! circa 1979/80 Max RAM - 32k > ! O S E ! > ! R F ! 4000 & 8000 Series > ! Y ! circa 1981 Max RAM - 32k* > ! spkr! [daughterboard exp to 96k] > +--------------------+ > > WHAT VERSION OF ROMS DO I HAVE ON MY PET? > > The PET/CBM line had three major ROM revisions as well as a few > minor > ones, > you cannot reliably determine the ROMs by looking at the outside of > the PET > (unless it has a large monitor). Fortunately there is an easy way > to > distinguish the three various versions by just turning on the > computer. > Depending on how your start-up message looks you can determine the > ROM > version: > > *** COMMODORE BASIC *** - Original ROMs sometimes referred to as > 2.0* > ROMs. > (only found in the older calculator > keyboard style > PETs) Occupy $C000-$FFFF > > ### COMMODORE BASIC ### - Commonly known as the 'Upgrade ROMs' > sometimes > referred to as 2.0 or 3.0 ROMs depending > on > who > you ask. Occupy $C000-$FFFF > > *** COMMODORE BASIC 4.0 *** - 4.0 ROMs The only ROMs that will work > on > large-screen PETs. Occupy $B000-$FFFF > > * Some people contend that BASIC version 1.0 never made it out of > beta > development and the PET line started with version 2.0 ROMs... > Commodore > on the other hand usually refers to the 'Upgrade ROMs' as V2, or > 2.0. > For the sake of sanity in this FAQ I will refer to them as > original > and > upgrade ROMs, and as for an opinion I will go with the company's > numbering > (which leaves V 3.0 out of the picture). > > WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENCES AND/OR BUGS OF MY VERSION OF BASIC? > > Original ROMs > Commodore had not yet implemented the IEEE-488 disk routines. > Arrays > are > limited to 256 elements due to a bug in firmware. There is no > machine > language > monitor nor could the PEEK command access locations above memory > location > 49152. The upper/lower case character set was inverted (SHIFT for > lower > case) (note: reading my sources there are ALOT of bugs, will take a > while to > compile them) > > Upgrade ROMs > Many Original ROM bugs were squashed. BASIC commands and > capabilities > very > much like the Commodore 64's. Now includes a tiny ML monitor and > IEEE-488 > disk operability. Easter Egg - enter WAIT 6502,x to see MICROSOFT!' > displayed > on the screen x number of times. > > 4.0 ROMs* > Addition of direct Disk operation commands DLOAD, DSAVE, COPY, > HEADER, > etc. > Ability to repeat cursor control characters by holding down keys. > Reserved > DOS error-channel variables: DS,DS$. Added screen 'window' > formatting > control > characters. > * The small screen-and large screen versions of these ROMs differ > and > some software developed for the small-screen 4.0 ROMS crash on the > large > screen units. This is due to the necessary changes made for the new > video > controller of the 12" display PETs. > > CAN I RUN VIC-20, 64, 128, PLUS/4, OR C-16 SOFTWARE ON MY PET? > > Maybe. Any program that is all BASIC that does not use hi-res > graphics or > sound and contains no POKES should work readily on a PET. Of course > if it > contains POKEs, sound commands, and Machine Language conversion will > be > nessasary. If it rely on more than one voice of sound, hi-res > grpahics, > programmable character sets or color, it may not be worth converting > because > those features aren't present on the PETs. > > NOTE: Many early VIC, 64, and Plus/4 BASIC games and programs were > converted > PET games. > > HOW DO I GET 64 (VIC, PLUS/4, ETC.) BASIC PROGRAMS ON MY PET? > > Unlike the later 8-bit Commodores,the PET always loads programs into > the > memory address they were saved at (i.e. no loading ,8 and ,8,1 as > on > the > later machines), which means BASIC programs saved on VICs, 64s, > 128s, > etc, > will not load in the right location on the PET to be seen by the > BASIC > interpreter. PET BASIC starts at location 1025 ($0401 in hex) and > the > later > Commodore machines have different, higher starting locations. (see > table x) > > There are a couple ways to get a BASIC program to load properly into > memory, > > Disk Track/Sector Editors: > My preferred method of conversion is using a disk track/sector > editing > utility > to change the 'load address bytes' of the file directly on the disk. > > This is > not an easy process to 'explain' and I hope to write it up at a > later > time. > > BASIC Line Relocation Method: > Here is a way to get the BASIC editor to do it for you; of course > you > will > need to have an upgrade ROM or later PET (which has a ML monitor) or > load in > a monitor for your original ROM PET first. It involves 'linking' > the > higher > located BASIC program to a line starting in regular BASIC, when you > delete > that line, the editor will move your program to where it belongs in > memory. > > 1. Enter NEW to erase any programs already in memory. > 2. Enter: 0 REM > 3. LOAD the program you want converted (i.e. LOAD"program name",1 > for > tape) > 4. When loaded, enter the machine language monitor by entering SYS > 1024 > 5. display the first part of the BASIC you first typed: > M 0401 0408 > 6. Change the line-link to the memory location of the program to be > moved; > use cursor keys to move up and change the first two two-digit > numbers to > read: > :0401 01 08 00 00 8F 00 00 00 > ^^ ^^ (for a program from a 64, otherwise, see table x) > 7. Press return to change the bytes then enter X to exit the > monitor. > 8. Type LIST, you should see the 0 REM followed by the program. > 9. Enter 0 to delete line 0 which will move the BASIC to its proper > place. > 10. Save the program. > > TABLE X - Load Addresses for BASIC files: > > Saved under Start of BASIC > Computer load load change > Model/ addr. addr. bytes > configuration dec. hex. to: > ------------- ---- ----- ----- > PET/CBM 1025 $0401 N/A > VIC-20 unex. 4097 $1001 01 10 > VIC-20 +3k 1025 $0401 N/A > VIC-20 8k+ 4609 $1201 01 12 > Commodore 64 2049 $0801 01 08 > B-128 0003 $0003 * > Plus/4-C16 4097 $1001 01 10 > Plus/4-C16** 8193 $2001 01 20 > C128 mode 7169 $1C01 01 1C > C128 mode** 16384 $4001 01 40 > > * The BASIC RAM of the B128 is located in a separate bank of RAM > memory, > which starts at a VERY low address and will be difficilt to > convert > without > a track/sector editor or saving it special on a B-128 itself. > ** When hi-res GRAPHICS mode space has been allocated. > > WHAT KIND OF DRIVES CAN I USE? > Tape Drives > Tape Drives for the VIC, 64 and 128 work well on the PET. In fact > you can > hook up 2 tape drives on the PET (the second connector is inside > the > case, > on the edge of the motherboard.) and can be accessed as device #2. > Commodore Models: > SANYO - First drives, power supply section cut out and modified > for > PET datasette cable/plug. > C2N - Box look, black or cream colored case. > 1530 - Rounded low-profile, counter & 'save' indicator light. > Commodore IEEE-488 5.25" models > 2020 - (first drive design, bugs may be present) > 2040 - Updated ROMS, resembles a 1541 format & readbable on > 1541/71s > 4040 - Read/Write compatible with 1541/1571s. > 2031 - Read/Write compatible with 1541/1571s. > 8050 - Single Sided/Quad Density format, 512k per disk side. > 8250 - Double Sided/Quad Density format, 1mb per disk > SFD-1001 - Same as 8250, but single drive unit. > Commodore IEEE-488 8" > 8280 - 1 MB or 512k per Drive (little info on this one...) > Commodore IEEE-488 Hard Disk Drives > 9060 - Five Magabyte Hard Disk Unit > 9090 - Seven Megabyte Hard Disk Unit > 3rd party > MSD-SD1 ** The MSD SD1&2 offer both IEEE-488 and > MSD-SD2 ** VIC/64/128/+4 Serial bus interfaces. > Modified 1541 > PRINTERS? > Commodore Model IEEE-488 Printers > 4022 > 4023 > 8023 > Some companies produced printers with IEEE-488 interface options > (Epson was one) > > HOW CAN I GET PET PROGRAMS FROM DISK TO TAPE? > > You can just LOAD the program from tape and and SAVE them to disk > one > after > another, of course, if you are using a VIC/64/128, etc. the loading > address > will get messed up. Fortunately there is a wonderful fily copy > utility > available for PET (4.0), VIC, and Commodore 64/128, called > 'Unicopy'. > Unicopy (written by the famous Commodore enthusiast, Jim > Butterfield) > allows > you to copy from disk directly to tape. This of course preserves > the > loading > address and makes things mauch easier. (also it performs multiple > file copies > instead of just one program at a time). > > HOW CAN I GET PET TAPE PROGRAMS TO DISK? > > Again you can do LOAD and SAVE as I mentioned or use a handy little > utility I > had discovered for the 64. This program will automatically LOAD > each > file off > of tape and subsequently SAVE it to disk and continue until you stop > it (or a > disk error occurs when it attempts to save a file with the same name > as one > already on disk, disk full, or end of tape. > > HOW DO I HEAR/PLAY SOUND ON MY PET? > > Like many other microcomputers of the time the PET was not > originally > designed > to produce sound. A few methods of sound generation have been > developed but > the most popular employs the use of parallel user port pin M which > generates.... > The latest 4000/8000 (large screen PET) motherboards have a built-in > piezo > speaker and also have a bell sound accessible with a print: chr$(7) > > Sound Interface Diagrams here... > > WHAT ARE THE BASIC COMMANDS FOR MY PET? > For the most part the BASIC on the 64 is identical to the upgrade > ROM > PETs and > it only varys by a few commands and features between original and > 4.0 > ROMs. > On the other hand the 'memory map', the locations you POKE numbers > into, vary > quite a bit between ROM revisions. Memory Maps are available for > all > the > versions... > > HOW DO I ACCESS THE PET's M/L MONITOR? > > The 'timy machine language monitor' (known as TIM to some) is > available on all > PETs but the original ROM version. TIM is invoked by executing a > BRK > instruction by SYSing any memory location containing a zero (0), > most > people > enter SYS 1024, as it almost always contains a 0. > > WHAT ARE THE COMMANDS FOR THE M/L MONITOR? > G - Execute M/L: G programaddress (i.e. G 033C) > L - Load: L "filename",dev (i.e. L "PACMAN",08) > S - Save: S "filename",dev,startaddress,endaddress > (i.e. S "FLASH ATTACK",02,027A,2000) > R - Display Processor Registers > X - Exit Tiny Mon > M - Memory Display: M startaddress endaddress (i.e. M 0400 04A0) > : - Modify Memory (supplied in memory dumps using the M command) > ; - Modify Processor Registers (supplied in the processor register, > P > command) > > CAN I GET A BETTER M/L MONITOR FOR MY PET? > > Yes, there are two that I know of that are readily avaiable. The > most > popular > (and universal among the Commodore 8-bits) is Jim Butterfield's > Supermon. > There are versions available for all ROM revisions including > original > ROM PETS > and offer a mini Assembler and Disassembler among other useful > memory/ML > commands. The other, similar to Supermon is called Extramon. There > are other > versions many of wich are commercial but I have little information > on > them. > > > I HAVE A PROGRAM THAT CAN USE JOYSTICKS, WHERE CAN I GET/MAKE THEM? > > The PET was not initially designed for joysticks but a determined > user > had > devised a dual-joystick interface employing the parallel port. This > interface > allows you to plug in standard Atari/Commodore compatible > joysticks.... > > Interface Diagram Here > > HOW COME MY PET CAN'T READ A TAPE FROM MY PLUS/4 OR COMMODORE 16 OR > VISA-VERSA? > > You are quite a collector, aren't you? When Commodore designed the > Plus/4 and > Commodore 16 they broke alot of standards they had previously > established for > their 8-bits (and fortunately went back to in the C128); besides the > plug > designs, they changed the sound-frequency of the signals used to > record on > tape. Though the the format is identical to the PET and the other > 8-bits, > the sound is only readable on the Plus/4 and Commodore 16. My > sggestion would > be to record the program on disk (1541) and then read it on a 4040 > or > 2031, or > copy them from the 1541 to tape using a 64 or 128. > > WHAT IS THE 'KILLER POKE' AND SHOULD I WORRY ABOUT IT? > > This is THE POKE of computer lore, the command that WILL physically > break a > computer! Of course other commands and methods are known that can > potentially cause damage (usually to disks, hard drives or other > mechanical > units), but this is the most notable mainly because it was a command > somewhat > commonly used and it affects solid-state circuitry. > > History of 'the killer poke' > When the first PETs (small 9" screen) models came out, the display > wasnt all > that fast. It wasn't too long before someone learned they could > impove the > character printing speed via a poke to location 59458; which would > set > the > video controller into a faster mode. It was a noticible improvement > of speed > on programs using PRINT often, it was kind of like a free upgrade. > It > was > mentioned in a few publications and used in many programs that > relied > on > printing to the screen. I had learned of the poke through Cursor > Magazine, > a monthly tape-based publication. They printed the command in one > of > the > 'newsletter' flyers included with an issue which you could insert > into > their > game "joust" to make it play faster. > > Later on, when Commodore released the larger display (14") PETs, > they > had > improved display speed which made that POKE unnecessary. An > unfortunate side > effect was that the POKE to 59458 still caused the already faster > controller > to run even faster, in fact too-fast, which could result in damaging > the PETs > video curcuitry when left running. I discovered it by accident > after > our > school received some large-screen 4016s. When active, the screen > starts to > warp after about the third line and the display stops around the > fifth, the > keyboard is also unresponsive. When a PET is in this mode, the only > solution > is to turn it off, quickly! Fortunately none of the school's PETs > were > damaged due to this POKE. Later Cursor Magazine published a 'fix' > that would > allow older PETs to use the poke and keep the large-screen units > from > frying. > Unfortunately there are still many programs that do not have this > fix. > > Prevention > Make sure to check BASIC programs (especially games) when running > them > on a > large-screen PET and be ready with the power switch when you first > run > it. > I have usually found the 'killer poke' statement looking like this: > > POKE 59458,PEEK(59458)OR 32. > > The fix is to put an if-then conditional to determine if the poke is > needed > for the PET running the program, here is the code: > > IF PEEK(50000) THEN POKE 59458,PEEK(59458)OR 32 > > CAN I HOOK UP AN EXTERNAL MONITOR TO MY PET? > > With the help of the following circuit you can get a composite > singnal > from > the user port... > > Insert Video Diagram here.... > > WHAT ARE THE PINOUTS SO I CAN BUILD AN IEEE-488 CABLE FOR MY PET TO MY > DRIVE. > > WHERE CAN I GET SOFTWARE FOR MY PET? > > WHERE CAN I GET CONNECTORS THAT FIT THE USER/IEEE-488 PORTS? > > IS THERE A MODEM AVAILABLE FOR MY PET? > > I know of only one company that prosuced a modem and IEEE-488 > interface, the > company is TNW, and I think they also built the Commoodre 8010, an > acoustic > modem for the PET. I have some notes on using the device but have > never > actually seen one. > > Larry Anderson > > -- > -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ > Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 > -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- >

28 years, 8 months

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Help me out here, PDP-11

by thedm＠sunflower.com

This seems to be the favorite from what I can tell from the many discussions of Mini's. If I could get a hold of one of these, what parts do I need, what can I use it for and how much should I have to pay for it? Please feel free to email me personally if you do not wish to clutter the list. Bill Girnius thedm(a)sunflower.com

28 years, 8 months

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Minis not "trendy" enough

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >> a mention that I have a front-panel IMSAI I get hundreds of emails from collectors and pseudo-collectors-wannabes who would bend overbackwards to pay me good money for it. Are the only machines that people collect trendy micros that have been featured in the "collectible" column of the _LA Times_ and the like? Are classic minis, including PDP-11's and DG mini's only items for the junk heap?<< >I can't speak for everyone, but for some of us the problem isn't that PDP-11's aren't "trendy" enough, the problem is space. I would love to< This is THE critical fact. Go into an antique store sometime, and look at the prices. You'll see some little knicknack for $300, and then you'll see a huge, 150-year old carved mahogany wardrobe closet for-- $260? The fact is EVERYONE has room for the small knicknacks, but few people have room for the wardrobe closets. Similarly, I can (and some day, probably will) decorate my office with cute little ZX-80s, Mattel Aquarius, CGP-115-type printer plotters and the like, scattered around for people to look at as curiousities (and ask about, if they're foolish enough to get me started); but, what would I do with a mini or an IBM 360 if I had one? Not that preserving some of the larger systems isn't a worthwhile effort, but I think most people would echo W.C. Fields comparing women to elephants: "I like to look at them, but I wouldn't want to own one."

28 years, 8 months

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PET FAQ

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by INTERNET:Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk >I have some comments on the PET FAQ, but I've lost Larry Anderson's e-mail address. Accordingly I am posting it here, with apologies to all who don't wish to read it.< I believe it is foxnhare(a)goldrush.com I've already sent him e-mail, directing him to Jim Brain's "Canonical List of Commodore Products" which mentions a number of computer and printer models he missed. I also mentioned the FAQ that Jim maintains on various Commodore topics, although I assume he's familiar with that. Gil Parrish 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com

28 years, 8 months

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HHC's?

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >Mike has contacted the company with the HHCs and there is a guy there counting up all the available units. Mike and I worked out a deal of $1600 for 200 units, which puts the base price per unit at $8 before< Again, bravo for undertaking this effort. Once we all get our units, we'll probably need a separate listserv to discuss them, swap programs and such. If folks have access to the internet (usenet) newsgroups, I know of one which is virtually inactive and could easily be hijacked for this purpose. ;-] Gil Parrish 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com

28 years, 8 months

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How do I Unsubscribe From This List Server? HELP!

by BNICALEK＠aol.com

I've been trying to do this over the last few days, and still can't figure it out... Bryan Nicalek bnicalek(a)aol.com

28 years, 8 months

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Minicomputer Storage Myths

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Well I've done that too. Like with my Tandy Model4's, which I didn't know anything about. But at least I knew it as all there. The places I get my stuff, never have anything like this. You find me one, and well, if I can afford it, I'll have a stab. Be a good reason for me to learn unix. ---------- > From: PDP11 Hacker ..... <ard(a)siva.bris.ac.uk> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Minicomputer Storage Myths > Date: Tuesday, July 22, 1997 1:45 PM > > From: MX%"classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu" 22-JUL-1997 17:57:36.60 > To: MX%"classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu" > CC: > Subj: Re: Minicomputer Storage Myths > > >Wanna here a crying shame!? I only collect micros, simply because I'm not > >at all familiar with Unix, Vax, or any flavor thereoff. I have an 18X24 > >room in the basement of my house devoted to not just storing my collection, > >but having it setup and running. If I knew more about these machines, I'd > >probably love to have one. > > That's no excuse! :-). When I got my first minicomputer I knew absolutely > nothing about them (I'd never used a front panel, had only vague ideas on > how a processor worked at gate level, etc). I suspect the rest is true > of some other serious collectors on this list. > > Still, I sat down with the machine, and even more importantly the service > manual, and I figured it out. It didn't take that long. And I didn't have a > group of experts to turn to, either. > > -tony >

28 years, 8 months

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Minicomputer Storage Myths

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Wanna here a crying shame!? I only collect micros, simply because I'm not at all familiar with Unix, Vax, or any flavor thereoff. I have an 18X24 room in the basement of my house devoted to not just storing my collection, but having it setup and running. If I knew more about these machines, I'd probably love to have one. ---------- > From: Carl R. Friend <carl.friend(a)stoneweb.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Minicomputer Storage Myths > Date: Tuesday, July 22, 1997 11:42 AM > > In a few assorted threads I've seen under various names like "RSTS/E > Manuals" and "Minis not 'Trendy'", several folks have put forward the > argument that minicomputers are too large to collect easily. I have one > word: "hogwash". > > For the most part, your typical minicomputer fits securely in a 19" > wide rack. They're typically either around 5.5" or 11" high, or there- > abouts, and they're usually 22-30" deep with some going a little > deeper. They stack nicely for the most part as all the surfaces are > at right angles to one another. They do weigh a certain amount, but > usually do not top 100 pounds or so. > > Yes, collecting them does take creative space management. > > I noticed that one chap has installed his pdp11 under his bed; good > call! I hadn't thought of that one... > > Another guy gripes about putting a mini in his Honda Civic for > transport. My wife did just that when she came home with a DG Nova 1200 > for me a few years back; it fit very comfortably in the trunk. I just > got back from a trip to the US Midwest with two minis in two 6' bays > in the back of my minivan (story coming on my website). > > Kevan has room in his loft for a half-dozen minis or so (looked > at the pictures) once he gets things organised (sorry, Kevan) with > space left over. > > I keep three minicomputers (half-height Novas) on a kitchen counter > underneath our coffee-pot (I really should get a picture of that). I > also have a small rack with three of my pdp11s in it living in the > dining-room of our house - it makes a wonderful stand-up terminal > stand. Smaller racks can be utilised as end-tables. > > The ultimate space-management tool in dealing with minis is the > six-foot rack. In one of them you can mount an easy half-dozen > machines; if you share peripherals, they can all be used too. Un- > fortunately, my wife drew the line at that one, so I use the "scatter > method" of space management. > > The bottom line is that _it's not as big a deal as it's made out > to be_! It can be done, it should be done, and not enough people are > doing it. The machines are disappearing - and that's a shame. > > ______________________________________________________________________ > | | | > | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | > | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | > | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | > | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | > |________________________________________________|_____________________|

28 years, 8 months

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FWD: RSTS/E Manuals

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<dollars or drive hundreds (thousands) of miles in a rented truck (unless <you can fit a PDP-11 in the trunk of a Honda Civic) to pick stuff up. I've loaded an 11/23 with rx02 drives sans rack into one easily. A DG mini in one of the smaller boxes would fit. Keep in mind most of the minis the basic CPU box is rack width (nom 19"wide x 30"deep) and usually under 11" tall. Most 11/23s are in ba11N or S boxes that are 5-1/2" tall. An RL02 at 70pounds is rack width/depth and under 11" tall. The cak however can be bigger. I could easily fit a 11/23 or ther Q-bus pdp-11/rlo2/rx02 in any midsize trunk they arent that big. Also some of the short racks (30", 40", 50") fit in rooms easily. They are more than large enough to contain a PDP-11 or nova or several depending o disks and CPU boxes. I'd jump on a Front pannel nova but I can't swing the shipping unless I can keep it under 20$. Even thoug DG is only a few miles from here I've never played with their hardware. Allison

28 years, 8 months

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HHC's?

by jrice＠texoma.net

I was curious what the status of the HHC's were? JamesL. Rice

28 years, 8 months

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Wanted -- Atari ST 1040 drive

by FAIAZMC＠hsd.utc.com

I'll look into it! Mike ---------- From: PG Manney To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Wanted -- Atari ST 1040 drive Date: Monday, July 21, 1997 4:03PM A customer's Atari 720 K 3 1/2" floppy drive died. Anyone have one? According to him, this takes standard IBM DSDD 720K drives, but not Tandy (I guess, because of the strange data cable.) Thanks, manney(a)nwohio.com

28 years, 8 months

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Are we gatewayed to a bit.listserv group?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I know a lot of these mailing lists are gatewayed to a newsgroup in a <special bit.listserv hierarchy. That might me a good idea for this group, <as the volume of messages here as gotten too unwieldy for e-mail. (I have <over a thousand messages unread from this group alone). I for one hope not. The few groups I write to that are a a constant source of junk mail from the spammers that parse them. Allison

28 years, 8 months

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Odyssey2, Commodore Calc., 8" disks....

by coslor＠pscosf.peru.edu

Howdy: I picked up a few things today, and was wondering if anyone might have some feedback on this snag... including some more information on some of the items. To start with, I paid a total of $44 for the following. Feel free to let me know if I got a good deal... or not. 1) Odyssey 2 game system from Magnavox (Phillips). This comes with the original box, power supply, joysticks, TV converter box, etc. Also in this package is the THE VOICE expansion unit that allows voice output from the cartridge software. The unit itself is in _perfect_ condition! Thirteen game carts also came with this unit: Alien Invaders-Plus!, Computer Golf!, Attack of the Timelord!, Invaders From Hyperspace!, Speedwar, Spin-Out, Crypto-logic (the last three on one cart), Killer Bees!, KC'sKrazy Chase!, Sid the Spellbinder!, Type & Tell!, Football!, Nimble Numbers Ned, Bowling, Basketball (the last two on same cart), UFO!, and KC Munchkin!. Along with these carts are all the original boxes, in great shape, and the original manuals and countless other inserts! Does anyone know what the 'going' rate for a package like this might be these days? Also, does anyone have any inside info. on why ALL their titles end with an ' ! '?? 2) Commodore Solid State Electronic Calculator Model # 887D seriel #099632. I am seeking more information on this one. It's just a small digital (old style, lights actually are lit for numbers, etc.) calculator. This came with original manual, inserts, power supply, and box. I wasn't able to find a manufactured date, but on one of the instruction addition inserts, it is dated 10-1-1975. Please let me know if you might have more info. on this one. Also, let me know if there are any die-hard Commodore collectors that might be interested in purchasing this from me. 3) I found 60, six boxes of 10, 8" diskettes. These boxes are the heavy, plastic boxes that the top is spring-loaded to pop off. The disks are in mint condition and are unlabled. However, some of the boxes are labeled such things as 'daily backups', C, D, E, etc., and seems to be some accounting or other business disks. Can someone help me out and give some info on what types of machines used these? I know the Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 2,12, & 16 used these 8" disks but what others did? Is anyone interested in buying these up from me? I don't have a heck of a lot of use for them. Well, that's about all. Feel free to contribute any of the requested info., and anything else you'd like. Do you think I did ok financially on this deal? Also, if you're interested in getting 2 & 3 from above please let me know.... I will entertain ANY offers. Finally, I am also looking for any Atari 400 cassettes or cartridges. I don't have a disk drive, but am looking for one. Let me know what you have and how much you'd let 'er go fo, and we'll work something out. Also, looking for old TRS-80 software on disk and cassette, or CoCo cartridges, some keep that in mind as well. Thanks a ton for your time, CORD G. COSLOR //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor(a)bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*//

28 years, 8 months

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DG Nova 4's, Eclipse S130's

by shoppa＠alph02.triumf.ca

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3574 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970721/6b7a5eae/at…

28 years, 8 months

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Preliminary PET FAQ

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

I figured I'd shoot this by you guys as I am getting closer to putting it on my web site. I am sure I will get some good criticism from you all. If you have any additions/suggestions or additional questions to include, let me know. I also plan also to add in a couple texts on disk drive usage some PET memory maps (gee there are barely any PET maps on the net!) and if I don't find a link to one, an overview of Commodore PET BASIC (applies to 64 also). (view with a monospaced font for best results) THE COMMODORE PET COMPUTER FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS FILE - VERSION 1.0beta --------------------------------------------- BY LARRY ANDERSSON, COMMODORE COLLECTOR AND PET ENTHUSIAST --------------------------------------------- WHAT MODELS OF THE PET ARE THERE? The PET line was Commodore's first computer line after purchasing MOS Technologies the primary design of the computer (as well as its microprocessor, the 6502) was by Chuck Peddle. The line was labeled in series' the first series, the 2001 series, the european 3000 series, and the modern 4000 and 8000 series, and the final single unit 9000 series which is the SuperPET. 9" display units (40 column x 25 line character only display): PET 2001series: Original PET: - Steel case - Internal 'datasette' cassette tape drive - Blue on black 9" display - Small 'calculator style' keyboard - Small shipment with 4k, most with 8k RAM - Original ROMs Large Keyboard PETs (no more internal datasette drive): PET 2001 xN (x=8,16,or 32 depending on amount or RAM it was shipped with) - Full-size key keyboard w/PET graphic symbols imprinted on keys - Upgrade ROMs - Many steel cased, some w/molded plastic tops. - many with clearer green on black displays - Later versions had 4.0 ROMs installed PET 2001 xB (labeled as CBM, Commodore Business Machine) - Full size xx key keyboard (no graphics symbols printed on keys) - Upgrade ROMs (powers up in upper/lower case mode) - Later versions had 4.0 ROMs installed - Many w/molded plastic tops some steel cased. PET/CBM 40xx Series (PET= N keyboard/ROM, CBM= B keyboard/ROM, xx= RAM) - 4.0 ROMs - molded plastic top 12" displays - updated video controller (prone to the 'killer poke') - internal piezo speaker, audible startup, and right margin sound. - 4.0 ROMs PET/CBM 40xx (PET= N keyboard/ROM, CBM= B keyboard/ROM, xx= RAM) - 40 x 25 display, upgradable to 80 columns - lower case availabe by CHR$(14) which also changes line spacing. 80 column series (can be set to 40 column mode via software.) CBM 80xx - 80 x 25 display, powers-up in upper/lower case. - buisness xx key keyboard - later versions had 64k & 96k RAM expansion board options. - 4.0 ROMs PET SP9000 SuperPET (or Micro Mainframe) - 80 x 25 display - 6809 co-processor board - 96k RAM - True RS-232 interface - Multiple charactersets (for APL, etc.) - Avalability of disk Based languages MOTHERBOARD SERIES 2000 series(9" CRT) 3000 & 4000 series (8" CRT) IEEE user tape #2 IEEE user tape #1 +------####-####--##-+ +------####-####--##-+ ! # ! #! ! # ! #! ! # exp ! #! exp ! # bus ! ROMS #! bus ! # ! F E D C A B 9 #! ! # ! #! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ROMS ! ! ! ! F E D C A B 9 ! ! ! ! ! ! ! tape # RAM MEMORY ! tape # RAM MEMORY ! #1 # ! #2 # ! +--------------------+ +--------------------+ 4000/8000 series (12" CRT) IEEE user tape #1 +------####-####--##-+ ! # # tape ! # # #2 ! R exp bus # ! ! A #! 2000 Series ! M 9 #! circa 1977/78 Max RAM - 8k ! A #! [daughterboard exp to 32k] ! M R B ! ! E O C ! 3000 & 4000 Series ! M M D ! circa 1979/80 Max RAM - 32k ! O S E ! ! R F ! 4000 & 8000 Series ! Y ! circa 1981 Max RAM - 32k* ! spkr! [daughterboard exp to 96k] +--------------------+ WHAT VERSION OF ROMS DO I HAVE ON MY PET? The PET/CBM line had three major ROM revisions as well as a few minor ones, you cannot reliably determine the ROMs by looking at the outside of the PET (unless it has a large monitor). Fortunately there is an easy way to distinguish the three various versions by just turning on the computer. Depending on how your start-up message looks you can determine the ROM version: *** COMMODORE BASIC *** - Original ROMs sometimes referred to as 2.0* ROMs. (only found in the older calculator keyboard style PETs) Occupy $C000-$FFFF ### COMMODORE BASIC ### - Commonly known as the 'Upgrade ROMs' sometimes referred to as 2.0 or 3.0 ROMs depending on who you ask. Occupy $C000-$FFFF *** COMMODORE BASIC 4.0 *** - 4.0 ROMs The only ROMs that will work on large-screen PETs. Occupy $B000-$FFFF * Some people contend that BASIC version 1.0 never made it out of beta development and the PET line started with version 2.0 ROMs... Commodore on the other hand usually refers to the 'Upgrade ROMs' as V2, or 2.0. For the sake of sanity in this FAQ I will refer to them as original and upgrade ROMs, and as for an opinion I will go with the company's numbering (which leaves V 3.0 out of the picture). WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENCES AND/OR BUGS OF MY VERSION OF BASIC? Original ROMs Commodore had not yet implemented the IEEE-488 disk routines. Arrays are limited to 256 elements due to a bug in firmware. There is no machine language monitor nor could the PEEK command access locations above memory location 49152. The upper/lower case character set was inverted (SHIFT for lower case) (note: reading my sources there are ALOT of bugs, will take a while to compile them) Upgrade ROMs Many Original ROM bugs were squashed. BASIC commands and capabilities very much like the Commodore 64's. Now includes a tiny ML monitor and IEEE-488 disk operability. Easter Egg - enter WAIT 6502,x to see MICROSOFT!' displayed on the screen x number of times. 4.0 ROMs* Addition of direct Disk operation commands DLOAD, DSAVE, COPY, HEADER, etc. Ability to repeat cursor control characters by holding down keys. Reserved DOS error-channel variables: DS,DS$. Added screen 'window' formatting control characters. * The small screen-and large screen versions of these ROMs differ and some software developed for the small-screen 4.0 ROMS crash on the large screen units. This is due to the necessary changes made for the new video controller of the 12" display PETs. CAN I RUN VIC-20, 64, 128, PLUS/4, OR C-16 SOFTWARE ON MY PET? Maybe. Any program that is all BASIC that does not use hi-res graphics or sound and contains no POKES should work readily on a PET. Of course if it contains POKEs, sound commands, and Machine Language conversion will be nessasary. If it rely on more than one voice of sound, hi-res grpahics, programmable character sets or color, it may not be worth converting because those features aren't present on the PETs. NOTE: Many early VIC, 64, and Plus/4 BASIC games and programs were converted PET games. HOW DO I GET 64 (VIC, PLUS/4, ETC.) BASIC PROGRAMS ON MY PET? Unlike the later 8-bit Commodores,the PET always loads programs into the memory address they were saved at (i.e. no loading ,8 and ,8,1 as on the later machines), which means BASIC programs saved on VICs, 64s, 128s, etc, will not load in the right location on the PET to be seen by the BASIC interpreter. PET BASIC starts at location 1025 ($0401 in hex) and the later Commodore machines have different, higher starting locations. (see table x) There are a couple ways to get a BASIC program to load properly into memory, Disk Track/Sector Editors: My preferred method of conversion is using a disk track/sector editing utility to change the 'load address bytes' of the file directly on the disk. This is not an easy process to 'explain' and I hope to write it up at a later time. BASIC Line Relocation Method: Here is a way to get the BASIC editor to do it for you; of course you will need to have an upgrade ROM or later PET (which has a ML monitor) or load in a monitor for your original ROM PET first. It involves 'linking' the higher located BASIC program to a line starting in regular BASIC, when you delete that line, the editor will move your program to where it belongs in memory. 1. Enter NEW to erase any programs already in memory. 2. Enter: 0 REM 3. LOAD the program you want converted (i.e. LOAD"program name",1 for tape) 4. When loaded, enter the machine language monitor by entering SYS 1024 5. display the first part of the BASIC you first typed: M 0401 0408 6. Change the line-link to the memory location of the program to be moved; use cursor keys to move up and change the first two two-digit numbers to read: :0401 01 08 00 00 8F 00 00 00 ^^ ^^ (for a program from a 64, otherwise, see table x) 7. Press return to change the bytes then enter X to exit the monitor. 8. Type LIST, you should see the 0 REM followed by the program. 9. Enter 0 to delete line 0 which will move the BASIC to its proper place. 10. Save the program. TABLE X - Load Addresses for BASIC files: Saved under Start of BASIC Computer load load change Model/ addr. addr. bytes configuration dec. hex. to: ------------- ---- ----- ----- PET/CBM 1025 $0401 N/A VIC-20 unex. 4097 $1001 01 10 VIC-20 +3k 1025 $0401 N/A VIC-20 8k+ 4609 $1201 01 12 Commodore 64 2049 $0801 01 08 B-128 0003 $0003 * Plus/4-C16 4097 $1001 01 10 Plus/4-C16** 8193 $2001 01 20 C128 mode 7169 $1C01 01 1C C128 mode** 16384 $4001 01 40 * The BASIC RAM of the B128 is located in a separate bank of RAM memory, which starts at a VERY low address and will be difficilt to convert without a track/sector editor or saving it special on a B-128 itself. ** When hi-res GRAPHICS mode space has been allocated. WHAT KIND OF DRIVES CAN I USE? Tape Drives Tape Drives for the VIC, 64 and 128 work well on the PET. In fact you can hook up 2 tape drives on the PET (the second connector is inside the case, on the edge of the motherboard.) and can be accessed as device #2. Commodore Models: SANYO - First drives, power supply section cut out and modified for PET datasette cable/plug. C2N - Box look, black or cream colored case. 1530 - Rounded low-profile, counter & 'save' indicator light. Commodore IEEE-488 5.25" models 2020 - (first drive design, bugs may be present) 2040 - Updated ROMS, resembles a 1541 format & readbable on 1541/71s 4040 - Read/Write compatible with 1541/1571s. 2031 - Read/Write compatible with 1541/1571s. 8050 - Single Sided/Quad Density format, 512k per disk side. 8250 - Double Sided/Quad Density format, 1mb per disk SFD-1001 - Same as 8250, but single drive unit. Commodore IEEE-488 8" 8280 - 1 MB or 512k per Drive (little info on this one...) Commodore IEEE-488 Hard Disk Drives 9060 - Five Magabyte Hard Disk Unit 9090 - Seven Megabyte Hard Disk Unit 3rd party MSD-SD1 ** The MSD SD1&2 offer both IEEE-488 and MSD-SD2 ** VIC/64/128/+4 Serial bus interfaces. Modified 1541 PRINTERS? Commodore Model IEEE-488 Printers 4022 4023 8023 Some companies produced printers with IEEE-488 interface options (Epson was one) HOW CAN I GET PET PROGRAMS FROM DISK TO TAPE? You can just LOAD the program from tape and and SAVE them to disk one after another, of course, if you are using a VIC/64/128, etc. the loading address will get messed up. Fortunately there is a wonderful fily copy utility available for PET (4.0), VIC, and Commodore 64/128, called 'Unicopy'. Unicopy (written by the famous Commodore enthusiast, Jim Butterfield) allows you to copy from disk directly to tape. This of course preserves the loading address and makes things mauch easier. (also it performs multiple file copies instead of just one program at a time). HOW CAN I GET PET TAPE PROGRAMS TO DISK? Again you can do LOAD and SAVE as I mentioned or use a handy little utility I had discovered for the 64. This program will automatically LOAD each file off of tape and subsequently SAVE it to disk and continue until you stop it (or a disk error occurs when it attempts to save a file with the same name as one already on disk, disk full, or end of tape. HOW DO I HEAR/PLAY SOUND ON MY PET? Like many other microcomputers of the time the PET was not originally designed to produce sound. A few methods of sound generation have been developed but the most popular employs the use of parallel user port pin M which generates.... The latest 4000/8000 (large screen PET) motherboards have a built-in piezo speaker and also have a bell sound accessible with a print: chr$(7) Sound Interface Diagrams here... WHAT ARE THE BASIC COMMANDS FOR MY PET? For the most part the BASIC on the 64 is identical to the upgrade ROM PETs and it only varys by a few commands and features between original and 4.0 ROMs. On the other hand the 'memory map', the locations you POKE numbers into, vary quite a bit between ROM revisions. Memory Maps are available for all the versions... HOW DO I ACCESS THE PET's M/L MONITOR? The 'timy machine language monitor' (known as TIM to some) is available on all PETs but the original ROM version. TIM is invoked by executing a BRK instruction by SYSing any memory location containing a zero (0), most people enter SYS 1024, as it almost always contains a 0. WHAT ARE THE COMMANDS FOR THE M/L MONITOR? G - Execute M/L: G programaddress (i.e. G 033C) L - Load: L "filename",dev (i.e. L "PACMAN",08) S - Save: S "filename",dev,startaddress,endaddress (i.e. S "FLASH ATTACK",02,027A,2000) R - Display Processor Registers X - Exit Tiny Mon M - Memory Display: M startaddress endaddress (i.e. M 0400 04A0) : - Modify Memory (supplied in memory dumps using the M command) ; - Modify Processor Registers (supplied in the processor register, P command) CAN I GET A BETTER M/L MONITOR FOR MY PET? Yes, there are two that I know of that are readily avaiable. The most popular (and universal among the Commodore 8-bits) is Jim Butterfield's Supermon. There are versions available for all ROM revisions including original ROM PETS and offer a mini Assembler and Disassembler among other useful memory/ML commands. The other, similar to Supermon is called Extramon. There are other versions many of wich are commercial but I have little information on them. I HAVE A PROGRAM THAT CAN USE JOYSTICKS, WHERE CAN I GET/MAKE THEM? The PET was not initially designed for joysticks but a determined user had devised a dual-joystick interface employing the parallel port. This interface allows you to plug in standard Atari/Commodore compatible joysticks.... Interface Diagram Here HOW COME MY PET CAN'T READ A TAPE FROM MY PLUS/4 OR COMMODORE 16 OR VISA-VERSA? You are quite a collector, aren't you? When Commodore designed the Plus/4 and Commodore 16 they broke alot of standards they had previously established for their 8-bits (and fortunately went back to in the C128); besides the plug designs, they changed the sound-frequency of the signals used to record on tape. Though the the format is identical to the PET and the other 8-bits, the sound is only readable on the Plus/4 and Commodore 16. My sggestion would be to record the program on disk (1541) and then read it on a 4040 or 2031, or copy them from the 1541 to tape using a 64 or 128. WHAT IS THE 'KILLER POKE' AND SHOULD I WORRY ABOUT IT? This is THE POKE of computer lore, the command that WILL physically break a computer! Of course other commands and methods are known that can potentially cause damage (usually to disks, hard drives or other mechanical units), but this is the most notable mainly because it was a command somewhat commonly used and it affects solid-state circuitry. History of 'the killer poke' When the first PETs (small 9" screen) models came out, the display wasnt all that fast. It wasn't too long before someone learned they could impove the character printing speed via a poke to location 59458; which would set the video controller into a faster mode. It was a noticible improvement of speed on programs using PRINT often, it was kind of like a free upgrade. It was mentioned in a few publications and used in many programs that relied on printing to the screen. I had learned of the poke through Cursor Magazine, a monthly tape-based publication. They printed the command in one of the 'newsletter' flyers included with an issue which you could insert into their game "joust" to make it play faster. Later on, when Commodore released the larger display (14") PETs, they had improved display speed which made that POKE unnecessary. An unfortunate side effect was that the POKE to 59458 still caused the already faster controller to run even faster, in fact too-fast, which could result in damaging the PETs video curcuitry when left running. I discovered it by accident after our school received some large-screen 4016s. When active, the screen starts to warp after about the third line and the display stops around the fifth, the keyboard is also unresponsive. When a PET is in this mode, the only solution is to turn it off, quickly! Fortunately none of the school's PETs were damaged due to this POKE. Later Cursor Magazine published a 'fix' that would allow older PETs to use the poke and keep the large-screen units from frying. Unfortunately there are still many programs that do not have this fix. Prevention Make sure to check BASIC programs (especially games) when running them on a large-screen PET and be ready with the power switch when you first run it. I have usually found the 'killer poke' statement looking like this: POKE 59458,PEEK(59458)OR 32. The fix is to put an if-then conditional to determine if the poke is needed for the PET running the program, here is the code: IF PEEK(50000) THEN POKE 59458,PEEK(59458)OR 32 CAN I HOOK UP AN EXTERNAL MONITOR TO MY PET? With the help of the following circuit you can get a composite singnal from the user port... Insert Video Diagram here.... WHAT ARE THE PINOUTS SO I CAN BUILD AN IEEE-488 CABLE FOR MY PET TO MY DRIVE. WHERE CAN I GET SOFTWARE FOR MY PET? WHERE CAN I GET CONNECTORS THAT FIT THE USER/IEEE-488 PORTS? IS THERE A MODEM AVAILABLE FOR MY PET? I know of only one company that prosuced a modem and IEEE-488 interface, the company is TNW, and I think they also built the Commoodre 8010, an acoustic modem for the PET. I have some notes on using the device but have never actually seen one. Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 8 months

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Apple Lisa Owners??

by bede0005＠gold.tc.umn.edu

Hi all: This is my first post to ClassicCMP. Let me just start by sayin it is great to see how much interest there is out there in different Classic Computers!! I recently aquired an Apple Lisa and was wondering if anyone out there also had a working model. So far, I have a copy of the Lisa Office System, the Lisa Tools, and MacWorks XL. What I'd like to find out is what other software for it was available and if anyone wants to get rid of it :) I know there is the workshop environment for programmin in Pascal, and I think a version of Unix and Basic were realeased. But what about Fortan? Also on the hardware side. Does anyone know of any cards that were made for the expansion bays. I know that a parallel card was available, and also something called a Priam Card. Anything else? Let's see one final question. What about printer support. Was it limited to the Imagewriter I, Apple DMP and the daisy wheel one (can't remember the name). Can one use the Imagewriter II? How about other printers? Well thanks to anyone with any info Rob

28 years, 8 months

1
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V6 Unix and E11

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

I can't get the V6 Unix images to boot under E11. Any special differences between it an V7? (Other than my real PDP can't do V7)

28 years, 8 months

1
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CoCo disks

by jeffh＠unix.aardvarkol.com

I found what looks to be a few intersting disks today, though at the moment I can't check to see what's on them or anything. They are all for the CoCo though, and all Tandy-labled disks in Tandy jackets still...and some are even for OS-9. They are: Flightsim I, (c) 1984 Multiview for OS-9 L-II, (c) 1987 OS-9 Pascal Disk I & II (version 02), (c) 1983 C Compiler for OS-9 Systems (version 01), (c) 1983 Color Disk EDTASM (version 01), (c) 1983 Ghana Bwana, (c) 1984 OS-9 Profile, (c) 1984 Biosphere for OS-9, (c) 1985 At least now I've got a few CoCo disks to try once I finally find a disk controller for my III! Jeff jeffh(a)unix.aardvarkol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

28 years, 8 months

1
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Wanted -- Atari ST 1040 drive

by manney＠nwohio.com

A customer's Atari 720 K 3 1/2" floppy drive died. Anyone have one? According to him, this takes standard IBM DSDD 720K drives, but not Tandy (I guess, because of the strange data cable.) Thanks, manney(a)nwohio.com

28 years, 8 months

1
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weekend additions

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by INTERNET:SUPRDAVE@aol.com >i also picked up something called a mattel aquarius for $10. the box was still sealed up, even the staples were intact! i havent used it yet. any opinions on the copy option board or the aquarius would be welcome. < I'll send you e-mail on this, but for the benefit of anyone else: I happen to maintain the FAQ on the Aquarius, and on the "add-on" computer keyboard for the Mattel Intellivision, known as the ECS. Since you have the manual, some of the information in the FAQ will be duplicative, but some could be very useful. For instance, depending on the package you got, the Aquarius does not come with the cable needed to hook it to a cassette recorder. From the (brief) description in the manual, the cable SOUNDS like the Radio Shack cable-- five-pin DIN connector on one end, and plugs for the cassette EAR, MIC and REMote connectors on the other. Unfortunately, the Aquarius cable is NOT wired the same as the Radio Shack cable; and, the manual doesn't supply a diagram of any Aquarius ports to allow you to easily figure it out yourself! The FAQ explains how to make your own. Also explained is how to attach a serial printer (either a DB-25, or a Radio Shack printer intended for use with the CoCo) to the Aquarius. (The Aquarius printer port is quite unique: it's a mini-stereo socket-- just three separate lines.) Gil Parrish 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com

28 years, 8 months

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TI-99/4A Cartridge Lifespan

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >I managed to get at least of the necessary pieces to have a usable TI-99/4a although I think I've don't have the proper pieces for video, since all I get is B&W.< It's probably not worth your effort to mess with a malfunctioning /4a; get another one. I see these units ALL THE TIME in the $3-$4 range, and I don't even pick them up because I already have more than I'll ever need. The trick with the TI is to find the "expansion box", particularly one well populated with cards; that adds (with the right cards) 32K memory, 1 or 2 disk drives, and serial/parallel ports. (Obviously, you can expand it more if you want to get serious about the TI, but this is the "plain vanilla" disk system.) Then you can run disk-based software without dealing with cartridges all the time. Still, you can have some fun with a non-disk system. The cartridges can allow you to do serious work and save the output to tape. There is also an adventure cartridge that contains the basic parser, etc., and then the different adventures can be loaded from tape. A nice setup for a small-memory computer. By the way, your cable might be your problem on having a monochrome picture. Many of the old home computers put out a monochrome signal on one of the pins, and a color composite on another. Gil Parrish 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com I'm wondering why of the six cartridges I've got three work just fine. Two don't work at all, and one "Parsec" works if I fiddle with the tuner on the TV after it's running, yet the initial screen that lets you choose BASIC, or the game is normal. Is this a indication of dead carts or a problem with my computer? What is the estimated lifespan of the standard cartridge, and how can environmental conditions effect this? Thanks, Zane <

28 years, 8 months

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CoCo disks

by zmerch＠northernway.net

Whilst in a self-induced trance, Jeff Hellige happened to blather: > I found what looks to be a few intersting disks today, though at the >moment I can't check to see what's on them or anything. They are all for >the CoCo though, and all Tandy-labled disks in Tandy jackets still...and >some are even for OS-9. They are: > Flightsim I, (c) 1984 This is one of the original flight simulators that came out for several 8 & 16-bit machines that IIRC the copyright was bought up by none other than Micro$hark. > Multiview for OS-9 L-II, (c) 1987 This is a GUI for OS-9... it was rather interesting [and I've heard useful with a hard drive], but *extremely* slow with floppies. > OS-9 Pascal Disk I & II (version 02), (c) 1983 Standard USCD P-code compiler... interesting thing is you could compile programs larger than 64K (max memory for a CoCo 1/2) out-of-box. > C Compiler for OS-9 Systems (version 01), (c) 1983 IIRC, *almost* standard K&R C... methinks there were a few *very minor* differences that were easy to code around, but non-standard nonetheless. > Color Disk EDTASM (version 01), (c) 1983 This can be fudged to use the 80x24 screen of the CoCo3 (quite nicely, I might add... as I used it quite often like this) but the line-editor was still weird. There are patches available to make this assembler support the Hitachi 6309 processor, which is a M6809 workalike -with enhancements.- > Ghana Bwana, (c) 1984 > OS-9 Profile, (c) 1984 > Biosphere for OS-9, (c) 1985 Never played with any of these... others will have to take the ball and run here. > At least now I've got a few CoCo disks to try once I finally find a >disk controller for my III! Uhhh, I might have one *for trade*. Presently, I have two available working Disto MC-1 [Mini-Controller 1] boards, but without getting into that entire pirating issue *again*, I have no available DOS's for them. I am looking for a shareware RS-DOS clone that I could burn into e-prom for you, or I could purchase ADOS-3 or Extended ADOS-3 for you and install it. Be warned: I don't have cases for these controllers, so you'll have to run them nekkid or fudge something of your own. (The Tandy FD-500/501/502 case will work fine... but you can't buy them thru RS anymore, AFAIK.) I'll keep looking for a week or two for a DOS you can use, and let you know if you're interested. See ya, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch(a)northernway.net | be your first career choice.

28 years, 8 months

3
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Atari still around?

by FAIAZMC＠hsd.utc.com

Yes! Sorry about the misspelling! The merger was done by ATARI giving a "bridge loan" to JTS. ---------- From: jpero(a)mail.cgo.wave.ca To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: Atari still around? Date: Friday, July 18, 1997 1:00PM I had to jump in! :) Mike, are you talking about the Tandon as in "Tandem"? :) Is that person who now owns this JTS is american or not? I still waiting to see how good JTS are or still junk. I knew Tandon drives used to be reasonably good drive but WD jumped in and screwed it. Thanks. Jason D. > Yes there are still distributors around! I will put a list together. > Atari merged with JTS, a make of PC hardrives, owned by the person who > used to put out Tandem harddrives. Atari is now known as ATARI > INTERACTIVE, a maker of game software for all platforms! > Mike

28 years, 8 months

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Commodore Shares...

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> > >>Would this be for proffit or non-proffit purposes? > > > > Well, if we have to pay real $ for the info, we should try to make a > > reasonable return. I'm not really considering remanufacturing anything in > > any quantities, but just in case we need to, we can. > > I agree. Why would anyone pay ANY money for shares if they knew that > everything would ultimately become public domain. For the same reason that they put money in collecting tins - not just for charities but for other organisations - it's a good cause. I'll subscribe! > > Since the rights would be purchased by the computing community, they'd > belong to the computing > > community.<< > > > > I don't necessarily have a problem with this. If this ever comes to pass (a > > slim chance at best), we can make provisions for emulator licenses. > > The keyword being licenses here. No one asks anyone on here to work for > free and likewise, no one should be expected to shell out their hard > earned cash for the "greater computing good." Sure, Commodore went > bye-bye a LONG time ago but the rights to some of that stuff still won't > be cheap... No-one should be expected to, but I think you'll find more people are prepared to than you expect. I'm prepared to - I get my money's worth anyway (technical data for my several PETs, VICs and my 64), and I would be quite happy to see the stuff go PD thereafter. Returning briefly to the Commodore B series, how do the 8200 series machines fit in? I see old documents refering to the B and P series, and older ones refering to the 500 and 700 series (I think respectively), but the machines I've actually seen from that period are called 8296. There were two models that I've seen - the 8296D (with internal disk drives) and the 8296 (without). The motherboard is identical - two banks of 64k RAM, (I think) a high speed (2MHz?) 6502, and a couple of chips which you unsolder and move to adjacent positions for 40 column mode. The case is similar to the 8032SK - rounded, plasticky PET case with large green screen and separate keyboard, but returns to the edge connectors for the IEEE488 and user ports. The internal disk drive - which I have now added to my 8296 to make a D machine - is an 8252 (?) which plugs into the IEEE488 internally. Ironically, 8296 had a linear power supply and 8296D a switchmode! So how do the 8296 and the B/P machines relate? Anyone know? Also, how do you do the bank switching to get at the full 96K of RAM? (I think you lose 32K to the screen - very inefficient!) Philip.

28 years, 8 months

1
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Tandy Service Manuals

by rcini＠msn.com

On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 19:57:22 GMT Benedict Chong wrote: >>Where can we get a list of catalog numbers of the various products for the various models. I'm waiting for my M4 and wouold like to have at least some technical manuals (so that I can rip apart the machine).<< I don't think that the master book in the Radio Shack store has a description of the product next to the catalog number. You would need a kind sole here with an old R/S catalog to give you the number. You could also ask the operator on 1-800-THE-SHACK. Just give her the model of the computer and say that you don't know the catalog number. ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking

28 years, 8 months

4
3
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USING classic chips (was Re: USING classic machines)

by chemif＠mbox.queen.it

At 13:24 28/06/97 -0400, you wrote: >> At 08:59 AM 6/27/97 BST, someone wrote: > Big advantage here over Atari and Amiga 68000 based >hardware is the high availability of dirt cheap networking and disk >hardware... other than that, I'll take the 68000 based stuff any day as a >personal preferance. If interested in such family of CPU's and want to use them as preference, be informed that Motorola use a 68k chip inside its GSM cellular phones (like 7000's and 8000's) I found this info on http://www.ibt.dk/morten/friends/hardware.htm Ciao! ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONE ? ? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ? ? Pager:DTMF PHONES=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ? ? where*=asterisk key | help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html ? ? e-mail=chemif(a)mbox.queen.it ? ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

28 years, 8 months

2
1
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Atari 400 / Odyssey ???

by coslor＠pscosf.peru.edu

Howdy: Today I'm looking for anyone that might have ANY old Atari 400 cassettes and cartridge games or other programs. Right now, I don't have a disk drive for this system, but am looking for one as well. Second, I am looking to buy an Atari 800xx system? Let me know if you have one for sale. Finally, looking for an old Odyssey game system. Any and all models are on my wish list... including the original Odyssey 'pong' unit, and the more modern models of the cartridge game console unit. If you have any of the above for sale, PLEASe let me know, and your price you would offer it to me for. Thanks, CORD COSLOR //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor(a)bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*//

28 years, 8 months

1
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Commodore Shares...

by rcini＠msn.com

On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:09:19 -0500 (CDT) starling(a)umr.edu wrote: >>Would this be for proffit or non-proffit purposes? Well, if we have to pay real $ for the info, we should try to make a reasonable return. I'm not really considering remanufacturing anything in any quantities, but just in case we need to, we can. >>I could see purchasing the rights to the C=64 and setting them free as public domain. Perhaps raise the money to do it by selling "shares" of ownership in the rights to C= enthusiasts. That way, emulators can use original C= ROM code without copyright infringement, and "Build Your Own Commie 64" kits could be a possibility. Since the rights would be purchased by the computing community, they'd belong to the computing community.<< I don't necessarily have a problem with this. If this ever comes to pass (a slim chance at best), we can make provisions for emulator licenses. >>I don't see much of a point to owning the rights to such things in a for-proffit mode. Except maybe just bragging rights...<< Mmmmm. What's wrong with a little bragging?? <g> >>"Hey, baby... I own the exclusive rights to manufacture the Commodore Plus 4. Want to go back to my place for a drink?"<< ;-) Sounds like Austin Powers! ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking

28 years, 8 months

2
1
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weekend additions

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

i enjoy reading what others have acquired over the weekends so i thought i might add mine also. there was a hamfest saturday morning so i went and picked up a 30meg rll drive; a copy ][ pc option board which seems to copy just about anything. is that correct? the laugh of the day was some guy selling an apple ][+ with two drives, joystick and box of software for $300 <!> i think i had met this guy before at a previous hamfest; claiming to have known steve wozniak personally and did blue boxing with the steves! yea, right! i think that's the same ][+ he was trying to sell then. i also picked up something called a mattel aquarius for $10. the box was still sealed up, even the staples were intact! i havent used it yet. any opinions on the copy option board or the aquarius would be welcome. david

28 years, 8 months

3
2
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TRS-80 Model III Questions

by foxvideo＠mail.wincom.net

At 11:51 PM 7/19/97 +0000, you wrote: >A while back I picked up a TRS-80 Model 3 without disk drives. It >works fine and I've been on the prowl for drives for it. Well, the >other day while picking up some PDP-8 stuff (questions for another >time), the guy gave me 2 Model 3s with drives. I've cleaned them up >and checked them out and finally powered them on. Now this is the >problem. They come on and the lower drive (drive 0?) lights up and >then stops and the screen stays blank. I don't have a DOS for them >so my question is, should these boot up without it as my cassette >based 3 does, giving me the Cassette? and RAM? questions or do I have >to get TRSDOS or one of the others. If these systems are bad, I'm >thinking of moving the drives to my cassette system. Looks like a >lot of boards to move, assuming the drives and controller are ok. >Comments? Also, can someone help out with a copy of TRSDOS, NewDOS, >LDOS or some other and a comm program? > >Thanks. > >----- >David Williams - Computer Packrat >dlw(a)neosoft.com >http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw > > CORRECTION..... Apparently I engaged my keyboard before my brain was in gear! When I turn on my Model 4 without a disk installed I get "DISKETTE?" on the screen. Sorry about that.

28 years, 8 months

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TRS-80 Model III Questions

by foxvideo＠mail.wincom.net

At 11:51 PM 7/19/97 +0000, you wrote: >A while back I picked up a TRS-80 Model 3 without disk drives. It >works fine and I've been on the prowl for drives for it. Well, the >other day while picking up some PDP-8 stuff (questions for another >time), the guy gave me 2 Model 3s with drives. I've cleaned them up >and checked them out and finally powered them on. Now this is the >problem. They come on and the lower drive (drive 0?) lights up and >then stops and the screen stays blank. I don't have a DOS for them >so my question is, should these boot up without it as my cassette >based 3 does, giving me the Cassette? and RAM? questions or do I have >to get TRSDOS or one of the others. If these systems are bad, I'm >thinking of moving the drives to my cassette system. Looks like a >lot of boards to move, assuming the drives and controller are ok. >Comments? Also, can someone help out with a copy of TRSDOS, NewDOS, >LDOS or some other and a comm program? > >Thanks. > >----- >David Williams - Computer Packrat >dlw(a)neosoft.com >http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw > > When I turned on my Model 4 with no disks I got "CASSETTE?" on the screen. The lower drive light stays on. Have you checked to see if brightness is turned up on the monitor? Cheers Charlie Fox

28 years, 8 months

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Atari still around?

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >Does anyone know if Atari is still around? I remember years ago (really not TOO long ago) I wrote to them and they sent me a pretty huge list of old Atari 2600, etc., games still available, as well as old Atari 400/800 software they still had around. Does anyone know if there are still Atari disutibutors that do this?< Atari was purchased by someone else and dissolved as an independent company. No clue if the successors have any inventory, but I suspect I know where their leftover cartridges went. An outfit called O'Shea, Ltd. has one million, three hundred thousand atari video game cartridges (!), and is selling them for 80 cents apiece. They claim they have 50 different titles, but I only see about 40 listed; pretty evenly divided between 7800 series cartridges and 2600 cartridges. These people seem to sell mostly in bulk (most of their different items are available only by the case), but there's no such notation with respect to the Atari cartridges. I've never done business with them, and I frankly don't know what they'd do if you asked for (say) one copy each of ten different titles. But might be worth a try if you want to round out your Atari cartridge collection. One the internet, they're at http://www.oshealtd.com/ E-mail is billh(a)oshealtd.com Phone is 816-531-1177 Address is on West 47th Street in Kansas City. and I'm at Gil Parrish 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com

28 years, 8 months

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Apple /// problem

by MicroAge97＠aol.com

My friend's apple /// has the same problem. i had to have a chip replaced several times. now it broke again but it's been so long that no tech will touch it. dave

28 years, 8 months

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How Do I Unsubscribe?

by BNICALEK＠aol.com

I would like to unsubscribe and transfer to another e-mail address. How do I do this? Bryan Nicalek bnicalek(a)aol.com

28 years, 8 months

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Commodore Shares (was Commodore B-128)

by rcini＠msn.com

On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:56:33 Mr. Self Destruct <more(a)camlaw.rutgers.edu> wrote: >>Me too! On a sidenote, I once saw an ad for some old shares (worthless of >>course) in Commodore (for people to hang on their wall, etc.) If you come across this ad again, I'd be interested. Also, to those who have expressed a passing interest in the remote idea of acquiring any leftover Commodore intangible assets {assuming that (1) we can find out who has them and (2) they want only peanuts for them}, I'll be contacting my attorney today to have him get an update from the US Bankruptcy Court. Maybe we can trace what happened after ESCOM went bankrupt last July. My idea would be to acquire the rights to the source code for the ROMs, the schematics for their machines, IC masks for any custom chips, PC board artwork, engineering diagrams, manuals, and service/technical information. That's it. I don't want any inventory (which by now, I'm sure, has been dumped) or tooling. I'm up in the air about trademarks, though (I know that "Commodore" is gone, but the others like VIC, C-64, and PET may still be available). As far as any licenses that Commodore may have had (for games written by third-parties and sold under the Commodore name, for example), I don't necessarily care. Commodore's machines were developed in-house with MOS/CSG parts, so they were owned by the same company ultimately. At worst, we'd need the IC masks for any custom chips (VIC, VIC-II, SID). Sounds like the beginnings of a business case... ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking

28 years, 8 months

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Apple /// problem

by jeffh＠unix.aardvarkol.com

Would anyone have any ideas as to what might be causing a problem with my Apple ///...it does the following: 1) the only disks it will boot are the disks for the Apple ][+ emulation, the CP/M 2.2 diskette for the Softcard ///, and the 'Apple /// Dealer Diagnostic' diskette. All other diskettes give a blank screen, though I have two full sets of the Apple /// systems disks. 2) The diagnostic diskette keeps reporting a RAM Map failure when I try to run a RAM test, on either the 5V or 12V settings, and it then asks me for the amount of RAM in the machine. No matter which choice I've given, it just goes back to the same error. As far as I know, it is a 128k machine with the RAM daughtercard below the keyboard. The amount of RAM was gotten >from the factory sticker next to the PSU on the bottom of the machine. 3) Of the diskettes that will boot, once booted, the machine runs fine, including being able to boot Apple ][ DOS 3.3 and being able to run Wordstar under CP/M 2.2. Any help someone can provide as to trouble shooting this would be greatly appreciated since my experience with Apple machines is quite limited. The machine has a Monitor ///, Disk II for the Apple ///, Softcard ///, and a Silentype printer. It would appear that Apple at least did some kind of work on the machine at one point as it has an extended warranty sticker on the bottom from Apple, with the additional 1 year ending on 08/06/83. Thanks. Jeff jeffh(a)unix.aardvarkol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

28 years, 8 months

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That "Thing" in my garage

by foxvideo＠mail.wincom.net

Spring having arrived here in the wilds of Canada, I moved some stuff and got close enough to that thing I was given last fall to read the labels on it. The box is a little bigger than a legal two drawer filing cabinet, and weighs a couple of hundred pounds. There are three tags with "M.A.I. Basic 4 Information Systems, each with a different model number... #9152 upgrade, # 610, and #1321. There is also a tag saying that in event of power failure the batteries are good for four hours! The cabinet contains a backplane and several plug-in boards. Does annyone have any idea of what this is? Cheers Charlie Fox

28 years, 8 months

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That "Thing" in my garage

by foxvideo＠mail.wincom.net

At 11:22 AM 7/19/97 -0800, you wrote: >> Spring having arrived here in the wilds of Canada, I moved some >> stuff and got close enough to that thing I was given last fall to read the >> labels on it. The box is a little bigger than a legal two drawer filing >> cabinet, and weighs a couple of hundred pounds. There are three tags with >> "M.A.I. Basic 4 Information Systems, each with a different model number... >> #9152 upgrade, # 610, and #1321. There is also a tag saying that in event of >> power failure the batteries are good for four hours! >> The cabinet contains a backplane and several plug-in boards. >> Does annyone have any idea of what this is? > >It sounds like you've got the main hunk of a Basic 4 system there. >These are minicomputers that were sold with special-purpose software >- accounting, doctor's office, etc. - for small business environments. > >Is it possible that there's a hard drive (likely 8" or 10.5") somewhere >in the box? Any tape drive? How many DB-25's on the back for terminals? > >Tim. > > There are 16 db-25's on the back, also two drives about the same size as the computer, the only one with a manufacturers label is Century Data Systems, Model T-80A. It came from a municipal office. When the fellow said he had got a new computer and asked if I wanted the old one, I thought he meant something like an XT! Next time I will ask. There was also a Calcomp 1041 plotter, which runs the test plot, but so far refuses to talk to my 386. Cheers Charlie Fox

28 years, 8 months

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Computer Advances

by manney＠nwohio.com

> When I first got onto the net, the first thing I found out was that it is > most useful for e-mail. That's about all I use it for, except looking for people who sell oddball parts. I tried IRC, I tried Usenet, Usenet I use, for classified ads. I tried a couple > other things, and eventually I found myself paying $19.95 a month for > e-mail. btw, My ISP will sell time (so many hours) which will carry over from month to month. $30 will buy 30 hours, which lasts a *long* time with an offline e-mail reader. Some charge, say $7/month for e-mail only. Ask. > But all in all I find the Internet to be EXTREMELY valuable. Where else > can I go to find 200 zealots who collect classic computers to get > information about a particularly obscure piece of hardware and get an > answer to my questions usually within 24 hours? > I can e-mail a diatribe to the President of the United States of America. ...and get put on the FBI's secret list. > Basically, it is truly information at your fingertips (almost) instantly. > Constantly updated, constantly growing, alive. Sure. For me, too. But how many newbies want -- or need -- all that info, or want to acquire the necessary skills? I think, after visiting the Lego page, nakedgirls.com and looking at trucks, many users cast the internet aside with the rest of their toys (and that was my point). Businesses, however -- such as mine -- find a real use for the communications / information.

28 years, 8 months

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Computer Advances

by manney＠nwohio.com

Most of my customers are interested in solitaire, Internet and scanners...and you know? I may be wrong, but I see a *lot* of people trying the interned for a couple of months, then letting the subscription lapse. We have millions of potential newbies to work through, but what's it gonna be like in 10 years? How many dust-covered chess-playing machines do you see around? Electronic keyboards? Cuisinarts? I think we're seeing a fad. Killer app? There hasn't been one since multimedia stuff for IBM I mean..) You're right -- we've been refining (and good refinements the've been, some of them! -- I'll take Corel 7 over DOS MS Paint any day). Next killer app? Dunno. Voice recognition?

28 years, 8 months

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Atari 400 Frogger help!?!?!

by idavis＠comland.com

At 08:54 PM 7/18/97 -0500, you wrote: >I recently picked up an Atari 400 computer... and have the version of >Sega's Frogger for it. It's on cassette tape, and I am having some >problems loading it. I know some loading commands from a quick look at the >manual, but am still not able to get the tape loaded. I eventually get >errors using three different load types: CLOAD, ENTER "C:", and LOAD "C:" >-- I think these are the three common types of loading procedures. I am >sure this tape is machine language, and am wondering if there are some Cord, Take the Basic cartridge out, and hold the Start button down when turning the machine on. This will give the beep to hit play on the cassette player, then hit enter and it will load. This is how you load a machine language program on the atari from cassette. Hope this helps. Isaac Davis | Don't throw away that old computer, check out the idavis(a)comland.com | Classic Computer Rescue List indavis(a)juno.com | http://www.comland.com/~idavis/classic/classic.html

28 years, 8 months

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(fwd) FS: SPARCStation 1 mb/chassis/ps

by danjo＠xnet.com

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 677 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970718/3112aaaf/at…

28 years, 8 months

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Tandy Service Manuals

by allisonp＠world.std.com

A while back I offerd up a very complete set of docs(and extras) for the TRS80 m1/EI and very likely I'd take less than tandy would. Allison

28 years, 8 months

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Tandy Service Manuals (was Axe to Grind)

by rcini＠msn.com

On Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:35:17 GMT ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: >>Have you tried Tandy/Radio Shack National Parts? At one time they sold service >>manuals for all their computer stuff, and such manuals almost always contained >>schematics/data on the 'bought-in' parts -- things like PSUs, drives, monitors, >> They still have lots of parts/info. Last week, I ordered the service manual for the Tandy Model 1 Expansion Interface. In 3 days, I got the *original* manual, not a copy of one that was used in a R/S repair center. In the past, I've ordered system diskettes for my Model 100 from the National Parts Software group (Tandy Software, I think, and a different telephone number, too). So, it's clear that they are continuing to support these old machines.

28 years, 8 months

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Commodore B-128, etc...

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu > The bulk of the information regarding the B-128 was 'loaned' to the Chicago B-128 Users Group by Commodore (wow, that's a change, eh?) a few years back, I have no idea what had ever happened to the group or where the B-128 info now resides.< Yes, that was quite a deal. The Chicago group seems to have showed up on Commodore's doorstep just as Commodore was getting ready to trash all the B series stuff, and the user group ended up with it all. I wasn't aware it was a "loan", but I guess at this point, nobody is going to show up on their doorstep and ask for it back. If only the rest of the Commodore user group community had showed such drive; we might not KNOW where the rights to the 8-bit stuff ended up, but also we might collectively have owned them! I don't know what happened to the group either. In 1990, before I got a B-128, I wrote and got info, and directed to them everyone I ran across that had a B-series question. Then I wrote in early 1993 to check in on the progress of the group for a newsletter article, and got nothing-- no returned letter, no response. I wrote a second letter a few months later (in case the Chicago post office had lost the first) and still got nothing. I tried again after I got my B-128, and again, nothing. I think basically the "group" was one guy in Chicago and a number of out of town members, domestically and internationally. I suspect as interest in the B series waned, the guy got tired of it and just quit. Still, upon receiving inquiries he might at least have sent out thanks-for-your-letter-but-the-group-doesn't-exist-any-more responses. Postage couldn't have been THAT much. Course, he may have gotten hit by a beer truck, for all I know. (Address was 4102 N. Odell, Norridge, IL. 60635; I probably have the head guy's name somewhere.) Gil Parrish 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com

28 years, 8 months

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Atari still around?

by idavis＠comland.com

At 12:48 PM 7/18/97 -0500, Cord Coslor wrote: >Does anyone know if Atari is still around? I remember years ago (really >not TOO long ago) I wrote to them and they sent me a pretty huge list of >old Atari 2600, etc., games still available, as well as old Atari 400/800 >software they still had around. Does anyone know if there are still Atari >disutibutors that do this? > >Thanks, > >CORD > There are a number of businesses still selling atari stuff. As far as the company is concerned, only the coin-op still remains under the Atari name. Check out www.myatari.com or email Rick Detlefsen (74766.1561(a)CompuServe.COM). They both have a pretty good selection, and I know Rick is pretty cheap. I work about 5 mins from his place, and it makes a wonderful lunch to go over there and browse through all of his stuff, and pick up goodies. The atari vendor and developer faq is at http://www.faqs.org/faqs/atari-8-bit/vendev/ If you can't get to it, I might be able to round up a copy and email it. Hope this helps. Isaac Davis | Don't throw out that old computer, idavis(a)comland.com | check out the Classic Computer Rescue List - indavis(a)juno.com | http://www.comland.com/~idavis/classic/classic.html

28 years, 8 months

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Commodore Equipment

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >I have the low-profile version of the machine, with no monitor or drives. I plan on getting the 8050 drives today at noon, if they're still there. There was also an IEEE-488 printer to go with it.< That's what it sounded like; this seems to be the most common machine in the P/B line, at least in the U.S. It's the same as what I have. >[[ BTW, I'm still on the fence as to whether I'll keep this one or not... It seems rather unique, which I like, but I'm not sure if I'd actually use it, which is something I like to do as well... ]]< "Using it" is somewhat problematic. While there is a fair chunk of software out there for the PET/CBM line, a lot of that won't run on the B series, at least without modification. As a "for instance", the typical way to find out how much memory you have on a Commodore machine is the check FRE(0). The "0" is a dummy variable on most C= units-- checking FRE(0) will give you the same answer as FRE(1) or FRE(10), etc.-- but "0" is the one typically used. However, on the B series, the variable makes a difference; since it is bank-switched, the different variables let you check different banks. As I recall, a PRINT FRE(0) command on a B-128 yields-- 0. So any software that checks for free memory-- and a lot of PET/CBM software did, since there were 8K machines, 16 K machines and 32K machines-- asks a B-128 that question, gets "0" in response, and crashes. I note the TPUG newsletter seems to indicate the group has some B-128 software, so you could try that route if you wanted. Or, trade the unit off, since it sounds like other folks might be interested. >Anyway, again -- I love this list! :-)< I'm finding it interesting too, at least when it covers the home 8-bits (which I know something about) and not mini-mainframes (which mean nothing to me personally). >-- and thanks one and all for the help you've given me for the help on this little beastie!< Hopefully, that's what we're here for! >I'll let y'all know if the 8050 was still there.< If you want to trade it off, you might not want the drives. Those 8050 and 4040 units are VERY heavy, and a true Commodore enthusiast may already have a compatible drive with his PET/CBM equipment. And there ARE other CBM drives that will work; you might run across them elsewhere. (Actually, one of the nicest drives to own is a third party dual drive called an MSD-SD2. It is a smaller and quite rugged drive, which uses the 4040/1541 format. It has both an IEEE port and a Commodore serial port, so it will work with virtually any C= unit ever made (not counting Amiga and PC-clones). Further, another party came up with a "mass duplicator rom" for it, that allows quick copying from one drive to the other. In fact, it will copy a standard Commodore disk in 15 seconds, or 22 seconds for copy with verify-- and it doesn't even have to be hooked to a computer to do so!) Gil Parrish 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com

28 years, 8 months

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Atari still around?

by FAIAZMC＠hsd.utc.com

Yes there are still distributors around! I will put a list together. Atari merged with JTS, a make of PC hardrives, owned by the person who used to put out Tandem harddrives. Atari is now known as ATARI INTERACTIVE, a maker of game software for all platforms! Mike ---------- From: Cord Coslor To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Atari still around? Date: Friday, July 18, 1997 1:48PM Does anyone know if Atari is still around? I remember years ago (really not TOO long ago) I wrote to them and they sent me a pretty huge list of old Atari 2600, etc., games still available, as well as old Atari 400/800 software they still had around. Does anyone know if there are still Atari disutibutors that do this? Thanks, CORD //*===================================================================== ++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor(a)bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================* //

28 years, 8 months

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CLASSICCMP digest 70

by classicjr＠juno.com

I am not getting any more messages! Please change my receiving address to: rottman(a)worldnet.att.net Thanks everyone!

28 years, 8 months

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FS/T Old Computer Hardware and Software

by foxvideo＠mail.wincom.net

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems, nospam(a)see.below.for.real.email (Vacler) wrote: >All this stuff is used unless otherwise noted. I have noted all problems >that I am aware of, but I haven't turned on a lot of this stuff in a >while. So everything is being sold as is. All prices are negotiable(so >make an offer), and don't include shipping. Items marked "---" are >included with the above item, and items marked "T.O." are ones that I'd >rather trade, but if you really want something marked "T.O." make an >offer. I prefer trades to sales. A list of things I'm looking for is at >the bottom. My real email address's are also at the bottom. Feel free to >ask questions. >--------------------------------------- >FOR SALE / TRADE >--------------------------------------- >APPLE >--------------------------------------- >Hardware: >Apple IIe Platinum $60 >Apple IIe Platinum(bad motherboard) $20 >Apple II+ $30 >Beltron(Apple II clone) $30 >Bell & Howell Apple II(Darth Vader) $60 >Laser 128EX T.O. >Apple II Mouse --- >Laser Power Supply --- >Laser Manuel --- >Apple IIgs(rom 3) T.O. >Apple IIgs Mouse --- >Apple IIgs Keyboard --- >Apple Lisa II w/keyboard(bad power supply) $170 >Macintosh 512K $50 >Mac 128/512 Plus Mouse --- >Macintosh Plus(4meg ram) T.O. >Mac 128/512 Plus Mouse --- >Mac 128/512 Plus keyboard --- >Macintosh Plus(4meg ram) T.O. >Mac 128/512 Plus Mouse --- >Mac 128/512 Plus keyboard --- >Macintosh Portable w/carry case T.O. >Macintosh SE(bad analog board) $40 >Apple II Joy Stick $10 >Apple ImageWriter I Printer $45 >Apple ImageWriter II Printer $60 >Apple Monochrome Monitor $30 >Apple II 51/4 disk drive $20 >Apple II 51/4 disk drive $20 >Apple II 31/2 disk drive $30 >Apple II 31/2 disk drive $30 >Mac 128/512 Plus 31/2 Disk Drive $30 >SSB-Apple Voice Synthesis Board $20 >Several unknown Apple II cards $15 >Software: >Apple II Calmpute Biofeedback Stress Reduction Program (NEW) $6 >Apple II Calmpute Biofeedback Stress Reduction Program (NEW) $6 >Apple II Calmpute Biofeedback Stress Reduction Program $5 >--------------------------------------- >ATARI >--------------------------------------- >Hardware: >Atari Video Pinball model C-380 $25 >Atari Video Computer System 2600 black w/fake wood trim $25 >Atari Joy Stick X2 $10 >Atari Game Paddles X2 $10 >Software: >Atari Space Invaders $5 >Atari Star Raiders $5 >Atari Warlords $5 >Atari Donkey Kong $5 >Atari ET $5 >Atari Street Racer $5 >Atari Qbert $5 >Atari Sea Quest $5 >Atari Breakout $5 >Atari Cosmic Ark $5 >Atari Raiders of the Lost Ark $5 >Atari Pac Man $5 >Atari Football $5 >Atari Telegames $5 >Atari Brain Games $5 >Atari Donkey Kong $5 >Atari Bridge $5 >Atari Qbert $5 >--------------------------------------- >COMMODORE >--------------------------------------- >Hardware: >Commodore SuperPET SP9000 T.O. >Commodore Plus/4 in original box w/power supply and manual $40 >Commodore 64 (for parts) $15 >Commodore 64 (for parts) $15 >Commodore 64C w/power supply $35 >Commodore SX64 T.O. >Commodore 128 w/power supply T.O. >Commodore VIC-20 w/power supply >T.O. >VIC-1541 Disk Drive $20 >C64 1541 Disk Drive $20 >Commodore 1571 Disk Drive $30 >Commodore 1571 Disk Drive $30 >Amiga 31/2 Disk Drive $35 >Amiga 1000 (w/signatures in case) T.O. >Amiga Keyboard --- >Amiga Mouse --- >Amiga 31/2 Disk Drive $35 >Amiga Pin $5 >C64 Modem $10 >C64 HesModem II $15 >C64 Joy Stick $15 >Commodore 1701 Monitor $35 >Commodore Cassette player $10 >Commodore MPS 803 Printer $30 >VIC-20 ram cartridge $10 >Software: >C64 Business Systems $5 >C128 Swift Calc $5 >C128 Word Writer $5 >C128 Data Management $5 >C64 Omniwriter & Omnispell (NEW) $7 >C64 Project Space Station (NEW) $7 >C64 Project Space Station $7 >C64 Graphics Basic (NEW) $7 >C64 Graphics Basic (NEW) $7 >C128 Ghost Writer $5 >C64 Forth $5 >C64 Rootin Tootin $5 >C64 Rootin Tootin $5 >C64 Rootin Tootin $5 >C64 Rootin Tootin $5 >--------------------------------------- >Tandy / Radio Shack >--------------------------------------- >Hardware: >TRS-80 I w/monitor and printer $45 >TRS-80 Color Computer I T.O. >TRS-80 Color Computer II $20 >TRS-80 Joystick $10 >Software: >TRS-80 Color Script $5 >TRS-80 Color Baseball $5 >TRS-80 Pooyan $5 >TRS-80 Mega-Bug $5 >TRS-80 Dungeons of Daggorath $5 >--------------------------------------- >Other >--------------------------------------- >Hardware: >Texas Instruments TI-99/4A CPU(Silver & Black) $20 >Super Nintendo System w/2 controllers $40 >Sega Genesis w/3 controllers $40 >Kaypro I $35 >Kaypro II $45 >Software: >Genesis Shining Force $15 >Genesis Shining in the Darkness $10 >Genesis Game Genie $10 >SNES Secret of Mana $17 >SNES Secret of Evermore $17 >SNES Game Genie $10 >SNES Super Mario World $10 >SNES Mario All Stars $15 >--------------------------------------- >WANTED >--------------------------------------- >Hardware: >IBM 5100 >TRS-80 Model 100 >Acorn Archimedes 3xx-4xx >Atari 520STm or 520STfm >Apple Macintosh 128k >VGA Monitor >Mac IIfx Memory >External Macintosh CD-Rom Drive >--------------------------------------- >Loren Everly >everly(a)interpac.net >vacler(a)hotmail.com >http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/7533/ >---------------------------------------

28 years, 8 months

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Commodore B-128 series

by rcini＠msn.com

On Thu, 17 Jul 1997, Les wrote: >>Last I checked/remembered, ESCOM held the rights to the Commodore name and >>to many of their patents/literature/etc. They are at >>http://www.commodore.net. Lately, Gateway purchased all the Amiga stuff >>and if I remember correctly started licensing clone makers. True, ESCOM, AG owned all of the rights to the Commodore name, intellectual property, etc., but it mid-96, filed for the German equivalent of bankruptcy (receivership, I think). This put the Commodore assets in play again. GW2K bought the Amiga stuff, but the other stuff is still in limbo (I think). In January, with advice of counsel, I made two attempts to contact Commodore's US bankruptcy counsel (Commodore had manufacturing operations in West Chester and Norristown, PA) to inquire about purchasing Commodore's remaining intellectual property (i.e., the rights to the schematics, technology, source code, etc.). I never got a response from them. Anyone interested in buying Commodore assets?? I only have several VICs, a 64, and a lonely PET. I'm in need of "rounding out" my CBM collection. So many models, so little time... ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking

28 years, 8 months

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Commodore B-128, etc...

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

The B-128 did come in a few models, they have been defined by case design (low profile and high profile) some models came with integrated monitors (looked like really advanced PETs, especially with the detached keyboard). The bulk of the information regarding the B-128 was 'loaned' to the Chicago B-128 Users Group by Commodore (wow, that's a change, eh?) a few years back, I have no idea what had ever happened to the group or where the B-128 info now resides. When Amiga Technologies was sold by ESCOM, ESCOM kept the Commodore trademark and name, as the remaining profitable division was the IBM clone division which used the Commodore name and logo to enhance their image (Commodore is a 'good thing' in parts of europe.) It is still under debate exactly where the technology for the 8-bits have ended up, some say ESCOM, some say partly Amiga Technologies... Dunno. Get the 8050 drive, Commodore IEEE-488 dual drives drives were very expansive and are not as abundant as the later serial models. If you need a cable for it (computer to IEEE-488 device or IEEE-488 to IEEE-488), E-mail me, I currently have a source for a few... Larry Anderson P.S. I started work on the PET FAQ, I outlined it and I have quite a bit of stuff to write! -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 8 months

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Commodore Equipment

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >> The C-128 and B-128 are completely different. The B-128 was one of the<< >OK, I think we need some clarification here. What does your "B-128" look like?< You'll have to ask the guy that left the original message. I was replying to him. However, his brief description made me assume it was a low-profile B128. >1. C128-40 "Advanced Personal Computer" Basically this is a B128-80 with a 40 column screen (sounds like a VIC chip to me) and comes in a low profile case (sorta like an amiga or 64) Not to be confused with the more common C128.< This one is also known as a P-500, and seems to have been the equivalent of a super-duper C64. It had the C64's 40 column color display (the rest of the line was monochrome) but had the faster IEEE drives, etc. >2. and 3. B128-80 "Advanced Business Computer" the manula says there were two versions of a B128. A low-profile model and, of course, a high profile one. The low-profile model is like the C128-40 but the high profile model has integral disk drive(s) and display< Presumably, if it was paired with an 8050 drive unit, it didn't have integral disk drives, and was the low profile model. >4. B256-80 "Advanced 16-bit Proffessional Computer"< He said "B128", and I'm taking him at his word. >Well, I'm "in" to Commodore and don't yet have one so if yer willing to sell/trade, lemme know!< Again, maybe the original poster will take you up on this. Also, I know one store in Oklahoma City that's had a low-profile B128 sitting around for some time. (I don't live in OKC, so I can't swear it's still there.) The store has a bad habit of never putting a price on anything, so I don't know if the guy wants a mint for it or just a few bucks. If you want to try contacting him, I'll try to dig up the name/address, but please don't put me to the effort unless this sounds like something you seriously want to pursue. >Also, if you want a copy of my "User's guide" that shouldn't be much of a problem, it's a whole 120 pages.< I have one, thanks, but the original poster might be in the market. Gil Parrish 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com

28 years, 8 months

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Axe to Grind

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

In message <150A878A7B7E(a)ifrsys.com> classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu writes: > Guys: > > Thanks to everyone who submitted information on my *controller* > cards. I got pretty much everything I need to know on the -05 cards, > but the -TB1 is still a problem. WD implied over the phone that this > was custom made. OK. It is currently mounted in a Radio Shack > cabinet with a Tandon 15Mb drive. Any Ideas? Have you tried Tandy/Radio Shack National Parts? At one time they sold service manuals for all their computer stuff, and such manuals almost always contained schematics/data on the 'bought-in' parts -- things like PSUs, drives, monitors, etc. IIRC if the stock number for the device was 26-abcd, then the service manual was MS260-abcd. At least in the UK, they were available to the general public. There may also have been a Technical Manual (which would have had a different stock number), but I doubt it. Talking of Tandy stuff, I bought a second-hand Model 4 last weekend. Does anyone know where to get a Technical Manual for this machine? What I really need is a list of Supervisor Calls, Docs on the I/O ports, and a schematics of the CPU board. I believe I have a 'gate array' board - there's a 40 pin chip with a Tandy custom number next to the Z80A. I'd be quite happy to buy the entire technical manual if it's still available anywhere, but I do already have the Model 3 manual, so I don't need any info on the disk drives/controller, RS232 board, PSU, or monitor. Anyway, with this machine I got a Cummana hard disk unit. Cummana were a UK company who later went on to make disk drives for the Acorn BBC micro. This unit contains a Shugart 612 disk (any ideas?) a Western Digital controller (I can't remember the number, but it is a standard card), a PSU, and a little address decoder/interface board. Maybe you have an original Tandy version of that. > Jeff -tony

28 years, 8 months

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looking for iRMX O/S for 8086

by clark_geisler＠nortel-nsm.com

I'm trying to find diskettes and manuals for a release of iRMX that runs on an Intel 310-3A box (8086 processor). I have 2 of these running production electronics testing that have died. We are getting them repaired by InBUS. But we've never used the backups that were given to us when these machines transferred from another plant. We didn't get the original iRMX diskettes, and just a couple of manuals. I suspect the backups may be for just the application software, and not the entire hard disk (there are only 3 diskettes in the backup set). As far as I can tell, we are using iRMX-86 release 6. I've been trying to get someone at Radisys (who support the current version of iRMX), but haven't been able to speak to anything more than voice mail so far. I'm not very hopeful, though: this is pretty old stuff. Does anyone still have the diskettes and manuals for this release that I could copy or purchase? Thanks, Clark Geisler Test Engineer

28 years, 8 months

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Classic Video Games

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 02:03 PM 7/11/97 -0400, you wrote: >Depends on your definition of "videogame" (coin-operated, home unit, computer, commercial, etc.) One of these should fit what you're looking for: When I was in high school, there was a precursor to the Lynx/Gameboy/etc. crowd that was a football game. There were little red LED's(?) to represent players, and you had up, down, and run buttons to control the quarter back. It was very simplistic; you basically just ran the quarterback until you got a touchdown (but I think you could do a fieldgoal?) Anyway, I think Radio Shack sold one, but it may have been someone else. Anyone else remember this? Know what it was called? Got one you'd part with? Thanks in advance! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 8 months

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Computer Museums

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> And while we are at it, put one of the music programs on the PDP where <> you put an AM radio near it as the output device! < <I thought that was the Altair. <It was Dompier's altair, at some meeting. The TX-0 also played music, but <that was through a speaker. And I'm pretty sure the 11s had some sound <capabilities besides ^G... I'd been done with many machines in many ways. FYI: I have a PDP-11 board that does multivoice sound (gigilo was the name for it). It works too. I've hard it via d/a converters on an 11, via the line printer on a -10. The altair thing was via radio, but also there were not less that a dozen different sound and music boards for altairs/s100 systems. Some I might add were very good. At least one used the pinte line (shows the internal state of the 8080 processor interrupt enable flag). Allison

28 years, 8 months

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Commodore B-128 series

by bw＠booster.bothell.washington.edu

catching up... Most of what has already been said here is pretty much correct. I'll add: B-series were regular low-profile micros. CBM-series had integrated monitors. I've never seen one of the CBM series machines. IMO they're pretty nice machine which had some attractive options when they came out. They didn't last long and very little seems to have been written for them. You can find schematics for the B-128-80 in the archive (Web/FTP). If any of you need a drive for one of these CBM 4040's work fine (8050 is a better but less common drive). I have a number of 4040s and could definitely part with a couple if you want to pay the shipping costs (heavy, heavy drives). As soon as I clear through the research I have several items for this series that will go in the archive - the manual, a word processor and a spreadsheet, and some technical notes. Any of you hard core commodore folks know who might have ended up owning the rights to this stuff? Bill

28 years, 8 months

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power supply/battery pack for ST Book?!

by walgen＠do.isst.fhg.de

---------- From: Sam Ismail[SMTP:dastar@crl.com] Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sent: Donnerstag, 17. Juli 1997 18:00 To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: power supply/battery pack for ST Book?! >> Hi, >> >> does anyone know where to get a power supply and/or a battery pack >> for a ST Book??? > > Are you referring to an Atari? As in an Atari ST Laptop, or rather a STacy? Yes - sorry I forgett to mention Atari in my posting - it is a Atari ST Book - a real notebook not one of the big Atari STacy

28 years, 8 months

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More News on Commie stuff in Michigan

by zmerch＠northernway.net

Hey, me again! I'm the guy with the funny Commodore stuff.... Just got back from the sale... the drives were gone. :-( The printer was still there (buried) -- it was a 4023 printer. No-one mentioned interest in the printer, so there it sits. It is IEEE-interfaced. Altho I did pick up a TI-59 calculator with 1 recording strip, says it contains diagnostics, IIRC. $5. (was marked $10, talked 'er down). I also got an *old* HP frequency counter, with cord & probe, $5. (Yea, it's not computer, but it'll help me fix computers, so I hope a quick mention is o.k. It should make a pretty good friend to Tex, my pet 'scope. ;-) I found a set of dual IBM 8" drives, marked $10. It had a funky interface (well, for micros) of a 25-pin female D _and_ a 15 pin (I think) female D... it was a 60xx series number, and the Compugraphic box with dual 8"ers is still there, no price. It had paper and a processor with it, tho. Anyway, sorry the drives were gone, thanks for the help on the B-128, and I'll try to reach my decision on keep/trade on the box over the weekend (I'll be canoeing... and *no*, this is one of the few places I won't take my Tandy 200!) Is a Mac IIsi classic yet? Not sure when they were made... it's got a 68030 with a 40Meg SCSI and (if I counted correctly) 9Meg RAM. If someone's got a color monitor (whatever it takes) mouse & keyboard for trade for it, that'd be cool... lemme know. (I'd be much more willing to trade the B-128 for this particular deal...) As always: Stay cool, keep your 'puters that way too, and clean those floppy drives every so often! ;^> Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch(a)northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within?

28 years, 8 months

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Computer Advances

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-07-17 21:02:45 EDT, you write: true, most everything has been done now. pnp and usb were/are trumpeted as new, but IBM ps/2's and macintoshes have had similar things in that the ps2 was essentialy plug and play after running the reference disk, and macs have the adb which allows things to be chained into the keyboard cable. i'd like to hear of other examples also. i can't think of any more right now. << Somehow, it seems like most of the major breakthroughs/advances in the use of computers took place early on, i.e. word processing, spreadsheets, and databases, and what has been taking place over the past 15 - 20 years would fall more into a refinement catagory. We are getting faster hardware, more ability (also known as bells and whistles), but no major breakthroughs that open up a whole new field for the use of computers. Am I missing something? I've heard that one of the early spreadsheets (Visicalc?) was responsible for selling more Apples than any of their marketing efforts. Regardless, that is the type of advance that I am talking about. >> david

28 years, 8 months

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Commodore B-128 series

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >Any of you hard core commodore folks know who might have ended up owning the rights to this stuff?< No clue. Commodore, of course, went bankrupt. Originally, it looked like ESCOM ended up with everything. I made several efforts to contact ESCOM through e-mail to determine what their plans were for the old 8-bits items, and never could get a reply. Then, ESCOM went bankrupt. I'm not clear if the Commodore bankruptcy court sort of cancelled the deal retroactively, or if the assets were moved again in the ESCOM bankruptcy. Anyway, another party (Gateway?) ended up with the Amiga assets, but they don't have-- or aren't acknowledging that they have-- the old 8-bit assets. Frankly, I doubt this point will ever be clarified. If the old entities have been disolved, and no new entities obtained the rights before the dissolution, it would seem to me this stuff is now public domain. Of course, the simplest way to find out would be to start treating this stuff as public domain. If any entity out there believes it has the copyrights, it will then make itself known. Gil Parrish 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com

28 years, 8 months

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Computer Museums

by idavis＠comland.com

>>> What should be on display considering: >>> 1) space limitation >>> 2) Mainframes, minis, micros >>> 3) What would most attract visitors >>> 4) What would most attract funding :) >5- Location, Location, Location!!! > Well, I had an idea, and it's just so crazy, it just might work. How about contacting an art gallery, and see if they will lend you a couple of rooms, or however they do their shows. You could get together with a couple of other collectors and have a "display". We consider these a form of art, and I'm sure you could pull in a very diverse crowd. Who knows, you might turn into a travelling museum/art show. Isaac Davis | Don't throw out that old computer, idavis(a)comland.com | check out the Classic Computer Rescue List - indavis(a)juno.com | http://www.comland.com/~idavis/classic/classic.html

28 years, 8 months

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Computer Museums

by foxvideo＠mail.wincom.net

At 01:07 PM 7/16/97 -0700, you wrote: >Charles E. Fox wrote: >> >> At 03:09 PM 7/15/97 -0700, you wrote: >> >I have been thinking, probably along with most everyone here, for the >> >past couple of years about how to open a computer museum. The major > >> We have a fellow in my area, Windsor Ontario, who has been trying to >> start a science museum for years. You might consider broadening your area of >> interest to get more public support. > >Has he been actively trying to get one started, and if so, what has been >the major problem? One thing that has been suggested by a couple people >I have talked to is to have displays that include technology developed >by local companies. My feeling so far is that the funding sources will >have a large impact on what is covered. I saw an interesting web site a >couple of days ago, http://www.mysticseaport.org, that has what appears >to be a somewhat self supporting museum going, i.e. no state or federal >monies involved. I find THAT to be most admirable!!! > > The fellow working on the Windsor Ontario science museum is Tom Toth, a retired teacher with political experience. There is also a group trying to promote an aviation museum, (I am a member of that one) and another fellow trying to bring a Canadian navy destroyer to town for a navy museum. The reason for all this interest is that a Windsor resident died and left one million dollars to the city for the establishment of a museum, the only requirement is that it should be named after him. The city finds reasons why all the proposals are unsatisfactory, and collects the interest on the million dollars. I hope someone gets something going soon, because I am not getting any younger and if I fizzle out all my stuff will be going to the dump! Cheers Charlie Fox

28 years, 8 months

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Commodore Equipment

by 107765.1161＠compuserve.com

Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >And I found a Commie B-128. I've heard of the C-128... are these similar, or is this actually the same thing, or what? I'm not big on Commie stuff (goofiest basic I've ever played with... and slooooo disk drives) but I collect for uniqueness, and this seemed rather unique. It has a card-edge IEEE-488 port, card-edge cassette, cartridge, "normal" RS-232 and other ports (that I don't remember... I just got a quick look at it), the Serial number is 0025xx (don't remember last two digits, but it seems early) and IIRC (but I haven't seen a C-128 in nearly a decade -- and that was only at K-mart) it looks different from a C-128. Did I do good? Also, they had a PET-style CBM-8050 (or was that 5080...) dual garage-door style disk drives, and a printer that hooked up thru a funky Centronics-like cable. Interested in those? I could go back tomorrow.< The C-128 and B-128 are completely different. The B-128 was one of the last/best members of the Commodore PET/CBM line; the C-128 was one of the last/best members of the VIC/64 line. Both had 128K. The PET/CBM units use an IEEE-488 interface for adding drives, printers, etc., and this parallel approach is fairly fast; the VIC/64 line use a proprietary serial connection that is fairly slow. In other words, you'd better get back and pick up that 8050 if you want a disk drive that attaches to the B-128; there are other PET/CBM drives that would also work (e.g., 4040, 8250), but the 8050 would probably provide the greatest compatibility if you ever want to pick up software. Drives from the 15xx series (1541, 1571, 1581) won't help you here. Did you do good? Only you can answer that. The unit isn't extremely common, but isn't extremely rare either. If you're not into Commodore, you might want to find someone who is and see if you can work a swap of some kind. (I already have a B-128, thanks.) Gil Parrish 107765.1161(a)compuserve.com

28 years, 8 months

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PAM computer, Convergent?

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Jeff Kaneko" <jeff.kaneko(a)ifrsys.com> wrote: > > Halted in Santa Clara > Funny you should mention these guys. I don't uderstand how they've > managed to stay in business! I *really* needed a couple of 8" floppy > drives a couple of years ago when I lived in San Jose. They had a > pile of them -- for $75.00 a whack! I didn't bite. I think Weird Stuff pulled something like this around December 1995, not too long before they vacated their Kern Avenue storefront. Yeah, right, like I am going to pay $75 for used-and-abused 8" drives when the dealer hasn't even taken the time to sort out single/double sided let alone single/double density. Halted has a decent store of small parts. They are good for that, if like me you are not real good at organization and planning your component needs with enough lead time to deal with mail-order. And they keep their selection of connectors better organized than some other nearby outfits (Haltek in Mountain View just has no concept of how to do this -- well, actually I haven't been there in a while, and have been avoiding the connector aisles there for quite a while longer). Sometimes they have hard-to-find small parts. E.g. three or four years ago they had sourced some of those funky SCSI connectors like Sun used to use: the female D connectors with 50 pins arranged as three rows. Specifically these were the IDC flavor designed to crimp onto flat cable -- just the ticket if you were setting up a disk box for a Sun! Pricey at $11, but the thought of the amount of time I would spend soldering 50 little wires from a flat cable into 50 little cups was a good motivating factor. So I bought a few, and I gather other folks did too because one time I found myself waiting for them to get new stock in. > They were gone a couple of weeks later, I asked what became of them, > and they said that nobody wanted them, so they were scrapped! > > Have you ever seen a grown man cry? Yeah, I have seen them perpetrate other crocks, like the HP 2100 mini that they were selling for $100? $200? I can't remember. What I do remember is that someone had thoughtfully removed all the cards from the CPU, and with my naturally cynical outlook I expect that means they were easy pickings for gold recovery. To be fair there were some other peripherals there, but the hassle involved in moving the lot (all set in a 19" rack) and finding some place to put it was additional discouragement -- besides which I did not have as much experience with the other bits and so was not able to determine on the spot whether they had already been gutted (though it looked like some cabling had been removed as well). It's not entirely clear to me how the surplus-electronics business works here in Sillycon Valley, but one thing is obvious: the primary moneymaker is in the movement of large lots, probably from auctions and companies seeking to be rid of obsolete hardware, through the surplus business and I am guessing on the way to precious-metals recovery operations. If the surplus businesses see little bits that they think will work better being sold as onesies-and-twosies to people looking for upgrades/spares for their trailing-edge PCs (or to people looking for deals on test equipment), then those will come out to the showroom floor. And that can be a profitable niche too, so they try to price accordingly (i.e. cheap enough to make it look like a better deal than upgrading, but not so cheap as to lose much of the profit they could make -- gotta pay for that showroom floor somehow). This has a side effect, too: some of the surplus dealers have a bad attitude toward walk-ins. They know you're not likely a moneymaker, so they are apt to blow off simple questions like "got any more of these?" I got this from the guys at Sharon Industries in San Jose one day a few months ago -- I had wandered in to pick up one or two dinky Unisys PCs that I had seen there and thought would make nice little routers if configured with a small hard disk. The place was messier than usual -- maybe they were reorganizing or maybe they were trying to look like Mike Quinn's, I dunno; they certainly hadn't bothered to close the door or hang a sign up ("closed for remodeling"?). The display was still out, though, so I inquired. First he was asking me if I wanted them today, and when I said "yeah, I could take one or two today" (thinking I should leave the door open for him to say "I can't get to them right now, how about tomorrow?") he changed his tune to "oh, I sold 'em all to Halted." The thought that crossed my mind was: except the one you keep on the shelf for people to look at, right? I haven't been back -- maybe I am a pain in the hindquarters but I really prefer dealing with folks I think are capable of being honest. Speaking of pains in the hindquarters, there is another surplus dealer (RA Electronics) who just plain got out of the computer business, and the rumor is that this is because they got fed up with people coming back asking for support for whatever PC junk they had purchased there. So I'm sure that there are some pains worse than I out there -- I at least am working from the assumption that I am buying someone else's junk as-is. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 8 months

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power supply/battery pack for ST Book?!

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 08:45 AM 7/16/97 -0700, you wrote: >> for a ST Book??? > >Are you referring to an Atari? As in an Atari ST Laptop, or rather a STacy? The ST Book was an actual laptop with an ST inside. As far as I know few if any were ever produced. (Perhaps they made it to Europe, which is where Tramiel always concentrated.) Different from the STacy which was also portable, but required a much bigger lap. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 8 months

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power supply/battery pack for ST Book?!

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 05:22 PM 7/17/97 +0200, you wrote: >does anyone know where to get a power supply and/or a battery pack >for a ST Book??? No, but if you give up searching, I'd love to take it off your hands! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 8 months

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Computer Museums

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<>Well, I had an idea, and it's just so crazy, it just might work. How <>about <>contacting an art gallery, and see if they will lend you a <>couple of ... This is one I'd be interested in. Computers/terminals/printers etal represent the art of engineering in many forms. Mechanical, there were some inovative packages. Conceptual, the packaged home computer like the PT SOL-20. Electronics... afew were designwise ahead of the pack. application... it wasn't the machine, it was it's useability. Art both musical and visual. Some were interally well done and had order and form like archectecture. Some like the cromemco dazzler were color graphics back in 76! Or like the PIAA-8700 for music. Ergonomics... the vt100 terminal was a standard for more than the terminal operation it was an erogonomic advance over many with the seperate keyboard, setup on screen and down to small things like the dull black bezel around the crt! Allison

28 years, 8 months

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Computer Museums

by foxvideo＠mail.wincom.net

At 03:09 PM 7/15/97 -0700, you wrote: >I have been thinking, probably along with most everyone here, for the >past couple of years about how to open a computer museum. The major >stumbling block is, of course, funding. But that aside, what type of >things does this group think a computer museum should consist of and >what should it offer? I am talking here about a physical location as >opposed to an online web site. > >The type of things I am currently considering are: > >What should be on display considering: >1) space limitation >2) Mainframes, minis, micros >3) What would most attract visitors >4) What would most attract funding :) > >Other activities to make the museum more than just a display of >computers: >1) Computer certification classes >2) Availability of documentation for those doing historical computer >research >3) Newsletter >4) Information on promoting computer collecting >5) Being able to provide docs and software (subject to copyright >restrictions of course) > >I am thinking of quite a few other things but this will do for a start. > > We have a fellow in my area, Windsor Ontario, who has been trying to start a science museum for years. You might consider broadening your area of interest to get more public support. Good luck Charlie Fox

28 years, 8 months

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Datamaster troubles

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Rich Cini wrote: > Thanks for the error codes. I have no manuals for the Datamaster, so I'm > flying blind. The code "09" is inverse-blinking, so there is a real problem. > > I'll try to pull the chips and re-seat them. The machine worked last summer > and wasn't used since then, so I can't imagine the chip going like that. Yes. Definitely! The diagram in my last post should tell you which chip it is. Now I think of it, I had a problem with my Commodore PET in which chips would ease their way out of the sockets on the motherboard. In the end I bought some decent turned-pin sockets and soldered these in place of the originals. Problem cured. One of the PET ROM chips lost a pin in the course of all this. (AAARGH!). Solution here was to take a staple from my stapler, open it flat, insert into socket in place of missing pin, and solder to the stub on the side of the chip. Wire cutters then trimmed both ends, and chip was as good as new! > Thanks again for the help. I'll let you know what I find. My company has a UK > office (Burdale-Holdings, a trade finance company). If I do need a new chip, > maybe we could arrange it so that you could drop it off at our London office > (if you're near it) and they could send it to me. Why did I open my big keyboard? Yes, should it come to that I shall be happy to do something of the sort, but I don't (a) know what kind of chips they are or (b) possess an EPROM programmer (shock horror!). There is at least one other Datamaster owner on this list, so if someone out there is better equipped than I am to help Rich, please speak up now! Philip.

28 years, 8 months

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HHC (fwd)

by dastar＠crl.com

Here's more information that someone requested on the HHCs. I will be compiling a list of people who have requested to be in on the deal so that everyone will know that their request was received. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 13:39:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Mikeooo1(a)aol.com To: dastar(a)crl.com Subject: Re: HHC Hi Sam, I can include as many ROM chips as you like,the width of the printer is 40 characters and thermal paper is available.Incidentally do you know someone named BROSWELL ? He made me an offer for one of the Aim computers which I accepted and that was the last I heard from him. Regards,Mike

28 years, 8 months

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Commodore Equipment

by zmerch＠northernway.net

Howdy, guys & Gals! I just came back from our local [p]university's junk-sale and I did find a couple of interesting things: they had all their equipment for sale: $5 per item. I left all the 8088 / monochrome clone junk (I remember when these were bought... most *were* junk).. I found an Epson LQ-500 with tractor feed -- $5. I picked up a Mac IIsi ?/40 (nice Quantum 40Megger in it :-) for -- $5.00 [Drum roll, please] And I found a Commie B-128. I've heard of the C-128... are these similar, or is this actually the same thing, or what? I'm not big on Commie stuff (goofiest basic I've ever played with... and slooooo disk drives) but I collect for uniqueness, and this seemed rather unique. It has a card-edge IEEE-488 port, card-edge cassette, cartridge, "normal" RS-232 and other ports (that I don't remember... I just got a quick look at it), the Serial number is 0025xx (don't remember last two digits, but it seems early) and IIRC (but I haven't seen a C-128 in nearly a decade -- and that was only at K-mart) it looks different from a C-128. Did I do good? Also, they had a PET-style CBM-8050 (or was that 5080...) dual garage-door style disk drives, and a printer that hooked up thru a funky Centronics-like cable. Interested in those? I could go back tomorrow. Here's a question: Who's interested in typesetting equipment? They had a Compugraphic machine with 8" drives there... dunno price. But it had several font carts with it, and I do know this baby's classic. (The stuff I used to work on was at least 10 years old, and this is older.) Maybe I'll go back and get that tomorrow as well... if my wife doesn't kill me first! If anyone's interested in the other commie stuff lemme know today and I'll snag it tomorrow. (E-mail's best... see below.) Anywho, any info on the B-128 would be most appreciated! Thanks one and all! Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch(a)northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within?

28 years, 8 months

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What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<reliable, they are not, as I bought a Conner CFS-850A 850 meg, and it worke <nicely for a year, then one day I am greeted with this error: < <BOOT DISK FAILURE, SYSTEM HALTED. Never confuse reliability with quality. the 3.5" drive have inherant reliability over the larger ones but crap is still crap. <no tape drive). fortunately the drive did have a 3 year warrenty, and a <replacement was shipped, a 1.2 gig seagate ST-31276A. and here is another <question: <Is this going to last me more than a year? If Seagate made good drives in <the past, will this new one live up to this, or is this drive chock full o <corner cutting? Unknown ask others. I have a fujitsu with no complaints but I know others that see nothing but failures of the next larger and smaller model. I will say I've seen models where vendor xx is the one to have and two years later that vendor is producing duds. The MTBF for these drives is so high that they should last for many years of you believe specs and all the parts are up to quality. However a head crash suggests a defect or handling problems (dropped) maybe before you even got it. I cringe when people ship hard disks without major padding. FYI I have at least three 3.5" drives with good media and dead boards! if anyone has a wd-AC160 or wd-caviar2340 that's dead I'd love the board from them. I have stuff on those that should have been backed up. Allison

28 years, 8 months

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HHC UPDATE

by dastar＠crl.com

Ok, just spoke to Mike. Here's the deal: Haven't gotten a price yet. He's concerned about shipping since these units will be coming from Canada. Each unit weighs a little over 5 pounds with the cpu, printer, tray and power supply. This is a little more than I expected. He's going to try to have the units shipped in bulk directly to the volunteer distributors. (So far Kirk (dynasoar) has volunteered to be an east coast distributor. We need a mid-west, southwest and possibly southern distributor. Please e-mail me if you wish to volunteer.) Shipped in bulk, the shipping per unit on the first leg will not be that significant. Its when you only have 1 or 2 coming to you on the 2nd leg of shipping that will be significant with relation to the price of each unit. I would say expect to pay upwards of $15 per each unit after shipping. Again, if you did not anticipate this and want to or need to back out, please do so soon. Mike said it will take him a week to coordinate everything with the company that has the units, so no new news until late next week...sorry. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass

28 years, 8 months

7
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power supply/battery pack for ST Book?!

by walgen＠do.isst.fhg.de

Hi, does anyone know where to get a power supply and/or a battery pack for a ST Book???

28 years, 8 months

2
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History of Video Games (RE: "Bally Astrocade")

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 08:49 AM 7/14/97 BST, you wrote: >> (But I always was, and always will be, a Robotron man...) >Do you mean the East German Robotron Elektronik, or is this another Robotron 2084 was a video game (put out by Williams, I think). The story was that robots had taken over and were killing off mankind. You were man's last hope as a super-ized human, you could shoot the robots and save the people. You ran around doing just that. There were various types of naughty robots and a family (mom, dad, son, daughter) that you ran over (picked up?) to save. What made Robotron different from most games was that it used 2 joysticks, one for movement and one for firing. To be any good at the game, you had to be able to work them independently of each other. Spent a lot of quarters on that game. There were other 2-joystick games, including Sinistar (mine bombs to blow up Sinistar before it's completely built) and a spiderweb game which I forget the name of. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 8 months

2
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