- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:54 AM 11/30/97 -0800, you wrote: >Most all of the consumer IR controls on the market use the same carrier >frequency and the same modulation technique, and only differ in using >different codes for different functions. Evidently some of your boxes >use the same codes for different functions! I am amazed that there isn't a standard for remotes -- 01 for on/off, 02 for VolUp, 03 for VolDn, etc. But of course, nobody listens to me. >I would guess that the IR keyboards in the PC Jr's pretty much guaranteed >that they would never be adopted by schools. When all you have to do >is point your keyboard at the teacher's PC and type "DEL *.*", any >schools that did buy them must've unloaded them as soon as they could... As I recall, there was much criticism of the IR keyboard since if you were far enough away to make it useful, you were too far away to read the screen. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

Donation - old mainframe Unix system

by Zeus334＠aol.com

A 68040 -based machine is not that old, maybe a bit under 10 years. What I was wondering is whether or not there is any objective advantage of old machines to new ones. F.E. one could get an old IBM mini (System/3X) for little or no money, but is there anything doable on it that is impossible to do on a W****** 95 machine? In a message dated 97-11-30 21:43:54 EST, you write: << FYI... In ba.market.computers, George Akimov <iga(a)metabyte.com> wrote: >Our company has a computer which we would like to donate to college or >school. >The name is "ARETE" Model 1224/160/16 OS - ARIX, ARIXNET Ethernet >2 CPU boards, 68040 -25mhz >64 MB memory >4-800 MB Disks >16 serial ports >240 v.power >Expansion Cabinet 1200/exp >474 MB disk drive 1000/D474 >9-track Tape Drive 1000/9T-HP >9-track Tape/Disk Controller 1000/DT2-9T >Software, incl INFORMIX. >>

28 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

PLURI-FORTH for ZX-81/TS-1000?

by rkneusel＠post.its.mcw.edu

Greetings all! I recently received a ZX-81/TS-1000 (can't tell, the case was gone and the TS-1000 is marked as ZX-81 on the board - doesn't matter anyway..) It has a second set of ROMs, selectable via the channel switch, which comes up as: PLURI-FORTH BY TREE SYSTEMS COPYRIGHT 1983 Does anyone know about this, or, hopefully, have a manual? VLIST tells me the words but a manual would be really nice. I've since mounted the board with homemade keyboard (which I didn't make) in an old Apple II case. Add a few connectors on the case and I'm all set with a nice little 16k Forth machine! - Ron Kneusel rkneusel(a)mcw.edu

28 years, 4 months

2
1
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Wangtek tape drive

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

Neil McNeight wrote: >On Fri, 28 Nov 1997, Sergio Izquierdo Garcia wrote: >> I've obtained one streamer tape drive, Wangtek Model 5099EN24. >> I have read that Linux can support it directly. > > It's a SCSI device (at least the ones I've seen are). As long as you have > a SCSI card to plug it in to and the drivers for that, you shouldn't need > anything else. But then, I've never used one under DOS or Windows either. The EN drives are _not_ SCSI drives. You will need a controller card for them. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 4 months

3
2
0 0

weekend finds

by Zeus334＠aol.com

>PC jr. Would you like to have another IR keyboard? Also, do you need any C64 stuff? I've been trying to get rid of it for a while now (You name it, I have it, except the C64 and all kinds of expansion boards/cartriges)

28 years, 4 months

5
4
0 0

DEC Rainbow 100A

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<quite a few Rainbow user groups sponserred by DEC. Allison I'm sure, <has all the specs and there is a downloadable systems site. Actually I'm not current on the Rainbow and a few otehr would know where the stuff is. < Not being mini or DEC literate what is the RX50 format and what <systems (platforms) is it used on ? Basic RX50: Single sided, ten 512 byte sectors per track soft sector and 80 tracks at 96 TPI for a total of 409kb formatted space per disk. It was DECs attempt to get more density on low cost floppy. While the format worked the slow dual spindle single positioner dual drive was a dog and internal pressure made it's use manditory for many systems that would have gone with buyout floppy drives like teac or sony. In the late 80s that would happen as a result for the need for PC compatability (AT) and later lower cost and more compact (3.5" 1.44mb). The format is not half a 1.2mb drive as it's 250kbit MFM(same as 360k floppy) and the spin rate is 300 rpm. It emerged whe DSQD drives were being seen on CP/M-80 and the 16 bit systems of the time. Back then CP/M could effienctly use a pair of 800k floppies cheaper than hard disk. DSQD were 96tpi, 80 track 730->820k per drive and were essentially 360k drives with 80 instead of 40 tracks. This format combo fell into disuse quickly with poor acceptance due to the general chaos of 5.25" disk formats emerging between 81-86ish. The driver of that chaos was the need for more space and the still very high cost of then 5-40mb hard disks. The availability of media for IBM XT 360k made it a pseudo standard. It was introduced on the early 80s and used on most all DEC systems until the late 80s when the VAXmate broke the mold by used RX33(1.2mb at compatable) and later with 3.5" RX23(1.44)/24(720k) on the 3100 and PC systems. Allison

28 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Workings of a TTY

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I have a query about the operation of a KSR 33 TTY when reading paper <tape : does the TTY blindly send the characters read from the tape at 10 <cps or is the tape advance and read triggered by a signal from whatever <th TTY is connected to. This is limted to ASR33s as they have the reader punch, KSR33 is keyboard and printer only. The answer is yes! Some systems have provision for tty reader control and enables single character read. Others just take it at 10 cps as they have all the time in the world between characters, it's not fast. Allison

28 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Atari 130XE

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:37 PM 11/28/97 -0800, you wrote: >was an Atari 130XE, the case is like my 520ST, but I'm possitive this is an It's an 8-bit atari (ala 800) but from later on at the very end of the 8-bit line. Be very careful about plugging an ST ps in, I don't htink they're the same. >It has a cartridge port that looks like it will take the cartridges that go >in the Atari 800 I've got (it's also missing a power supply). Same cartridges. >One major plus is it had the necessary cable to connect the computer to the >floppy drive I picked up a month or so ago. Although the cable seems to be >intended to go to this real cool looking little box, an "Atari 850 >Interface Module", which is complete with a power supply, and a operaters That connector/cable is used for a lot of things. It's mainly(?) for the disk drives, but hooking up to the 850 gives you standard RS-232, multiple atari SIO(is that what it was called?) ports and possibly a parallel printer port? There were cables that had built-in adapters to go from the sio to parallel printers as well as ones for RS-232. Also, there were modems that used that interface rather than a standard RS-232 and printers too. Sorry if that's not clear but it's late and I'm still working... >What was probably the biggest find was a Macintosh Colour Classic minus >keyboard and mouse for $5.00, only has 4Mb of memory, but it just might end >up replacing my SE/30 as my Word Processor. I just wish it could handle >32Mb of RAM like the SE/30, instead of a measly 10Mb (OK, I admit, that's >more than I need for what I'm threating). D*mn! Why can I find bargains like that! The Mac colour (or color for our us friends) classic is a heck of a nice machine. Still very useable in the clsaaroom and elsewhere. P.S., there is a classic macs mailing list for them what use <'040 macs. email me for more info... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 4 months

3
2
0 0

DEC Rainbow 100A

by Zeus334＠aol.com

>I have one, complete and working, color monitor, printer, >word perfect, lotus >symphone, and ALL documentation. It's available! >Fax 770-486-9847 Isn't that the infamous computer that couldn't format disks? If not, what was? I am not interested in acquiring this machine, but I would be interested in the general specs

28 years, 4 months

3
2
0 0

Toronto-area comp museums ?

by lwalker＠mail.interlog.com

A bit area-specific but with the plethora of west-coast posters aargh-ingly having access to so many old machines ; some parity. Does anyone on this list know of any T.O. computer museums in this area ? Not the Science Center , it has interactive displays etc. but no real museum, and they know of none in the area. I know Charley Fox is trying to set one up in the Windsor area and I've heard of another chap in the K-W area but none locally. Any info or interest, please E-mail me. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM(a)interlog.com

28 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Donation - old mainframe Unix system

by sinasohn＠ricochet.nospam.net

FYI... In ba.market.computers, George Akimov <iga(a)metabyte.com> wrote: >Our company has a computer which we would like to donate to college or >school. >The name is "ARETE" Model 1224/160/16 OS - ARIX, ARIXNET Ethernet >2 CPU boards, 68040 -25mhz >64 MB memory >4-800 MB Disks >16 serial ports >240 v.power >Expansion Cabinet 1200/exp >474 MB disk drive 1000/D474 >9-track Tape Drive 1000/9T-HP >9-track Tape/Disk Controller 1000/DT2-9T >Software, incl INFORMIX. >Any interest in that, please call (408)376-3801 ext.128 >or e-mail: marina(a)dentistat.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

weekend finds

by Zeus334＠aol.com

Well, I have a TV, VCR, and Cable Descrambler box. Each has a separate remote. I was unable to operate the TV picture controls for a while, because each time I do, the Cable Box does something weird. Also, if I operate the the volume control on the TV remote, the Cable Box sometimes changes the channel. But, the IR emitter is focused in a small beam, so that unless the IR keyboard reflects off of something, or the receivers are right next to each other, there oughtn't be interference. In a message dated 97-11-30 12:20:54 EST, you write: << > >PC jr. > Would you like to have another IR keyboard? On the subject of PC Jr's, I've always had a silly question: how do you use more than one in the same room at the same time? Don't the IR keyboards interfere with each other? Or is there some obvious solution to this problem? I've noticed that some of the Web-TV units also have IR keyboards... do they have a solution to this problem? Tim. >>

28 years, 4 months

3
2
0 0

386 and 486 motherboards

by manney＠nwohio.com

I'll e-mail a price list in the next couple of days. manndey(a)nwohio.com ---------- > From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > To: Manney > Subject: Re: 386 and 486 motherboards > Date: Sunday, November 30, 1997 10:07 AM > > sure tell me how much you want. > > dave > microage97(a)aol.com

28 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Apple /// SOS

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Does anyone have a copy of the Apple /// SOS distribution that I can buy?? I got the recently-adopted /// working, but it has no disks or manuals. Thanks again! Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

weekend finds

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>I've noticed that some of the Web-TV units also have IR keyboards... >do they have a solution to this problem? I think that the IR keyboards are the same thing for jrs and for Web-TVs... a joke. I mean, they belong with video confencing, (responsive) touch screens, and gigahertz processors. Right now, the technology is too expensive to get a good use. (IE make something cheap and with few functions, like a remote, or expenisve and keyboard functions, but at a high cost). I've seen the Web-TV IR keyboards (a very slim & beautiful-looking unit), and they cost hundreds of dollars. When you buy the add-on printer, keyboard, and stuff like that, the price probably soars to a higher price than a sub-$1000 PC (I've seen 166MMX boxes for under $500), it was the same problem with the jr: You promise them cheap, easy to use, and seemingly child-like to use. You end up with bad IR transmiters/recievers, expensive replacements, a high initial-cost, (the jr. shipped for like 1,200, not the promised 700 bucks.), and babies are bad enough with remotes. What do they do with 110 volts, a IR keyboard and reciever, and a cartrige system, all wonderful devices used by adults/older kids? The results are hard to even think of. If they could make a computer with less than 20V.... that would probably be OK.... (A different) Tim. ;^)

28 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

weekend finds

by Zeus334＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-11-30 12:56:10 EST, you write: << I would guess that the IR keyboards in the PC Jr's pretty much guaranteed that they would never be adopted by schools. When all you have to do is point your keyboard at the teacher's PC and type "DEL *.*", any schools that did buy them must've unloaded them as soon as they could... >> For the weak-stomached, I will use profanities here, so watch out. Well then, what about the new IR stuff like IRDA, the new IR Mice in the IBM A****A S series, the IR keyboards for l*****s, etc?

28 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

s100 bus AD/converters

by pwb3＠columbia.edu

I would like to get an AD converter board for my s100 bus North Star. It is still in use on a piece of equipment. I need a backup. I also have other S100 boards if someone is in need. pwb3(a)columbia.edu

28 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

386 and 486 motherboards

by MicroAge97＠aol.com

sure tell me how much you want. dave microage97(a)aol.com

28 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

weekend finds

by groberts＠mitre.org

my favorite tv/radio shop again seems to be cleaning out his back room. i picked up: Radio Shack Color computer C64 PC Jr + monitor (w/ IR keyboard) XT clone 2 IBM 5151 monitors Apple III monitor which was all i had room for. had to leave behind a cool looking (although somewhat beat up) IBM Displaywriter system. also lots of TVs, typewriters, old dot matrix printers, 3rd party EGA monitors, etc. the only thing i've played with is the PC jr. I used to have the tech. manual on this puppy but i think I tossed it out some years ago (dumb). the machine seems to work (IR keyboard and all) but the monitor has a vertical hold problem (beautiful colors on the monitor though). i'll try the NTSC out and see how that works. - glenn +=========================================================+ | Glenn F. Roberts, Falls Church, VA | Comments are my own and not the opinion of my employer | groberts(a)mitre.org

28 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Things seen.

by groberts＠mitre.org

At 11:30 PM 11/29/97 -0500, William Donzelli wrote: >I spent some time at the Capital for the holiday, and took a few hours off >to check out some of the vintage machines at the Smithsonion Institution. speaking of which, i would recommend the Smithsonian's "Information Age" exhibit to anyone in this group. It's in the National Museum of American History (14th and Constitution in Washington DC): http://www.si.edu/organiza/museums/nmah/youmus/genlinfo.htm or see a glimpse of it in the on line version: http://www.si.edu/organiza/museums/nmah/youmus/ex18infa.htm they have cool stuff like an early Sun, and (as I recall) an Apple I - also mainframe history, telephone and telgraph, television, etc. worth a trip. the price is right too (free!) - one of the benefits of living in the DC area. - glenn +=========================================================+ | Glenn F. Roberts, Falls Church, VA | Comments are my own and not the opinion of my employer | groberts(a)mitre.org

28 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

DEC Rainbow 100A

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Actually, didn't some of the DECmates come with a RX50 floppy drive? <Were these capable of formatting? DECmate-II/III are rx50 based. Actually the RQDX1/2/3 can format a rx50 but the code to do so is not supplied. The PRO350/380 and DECmate-II/III can't becuase the the floppy controller that can use handled by an 8751 uP, and the floppy subsystem does not have enough memory to buffer all the needed data for the 1793 format track command (all bytes including gaps must be supplied). Some of the DEC controller work alikes may have formatting capability using RX33 type drives(must have dual speed and nultidata rate). Any CP/M system with 179x compatable chip can format an RX50 and it's possible to do it using some PCs (controller/programming dependent). Allison

28 years, 4 months

3
2
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FS/T: DECstations

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

Been doing a bit of an inventory (sanity check) around the Computer Garage this weekend, and have come across some units that need to find a new home to make room for things somewhat less contemporary. Asking price for any of the units is $25.00 plus shipping, or trade for other items of interest. (see the Computer Garage 'Wish List' for some possibilities) Available Quantity Description 4 Digital DECstation 2100 1 Digital DECstation 3100 1 Digital DECstation 5000/200 These are CPU only, various configurations of memory and hard drive, built in video and ethernet capability. No OS. (suitable for ULTRIX or NetBSD/MIPS) Obviously, no shipping if you pick them up! (Beaverton, Oregon.) No guarantee of condition, though they are in good shape by visual inspection. Indicated as functional when removed from service by person who provided the units to me. Please note: these are MIPS processor based DECstations, *not* VAXstations! These units will *not* run VMS or any other VAX software. Drop me a note if interested. -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

28 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

386 and 486 motherboards

by manney＠nwohio.com

I just bought forty 386 and 486 motherboards. These are anywhere from 386 SX-16's to 486-[unmentionable because less than 10 years old]. Anyone want? e-mail me privately...manney(a)nwohio.com ps I even have a 286 with onboard HDD, FDD, parallel and Coms...never seen built-in peripherals on a 286 -- that ought to be collectible, now!

28 years, 4 months

3
2
0 0

DEC Rainbow 100A

by Offshootpr＠aol.com

I have one, complete and working, color monitor, printer, word perfect, lotus symphone, and ALL documentation. It's available! Fax 770-486-9847

28 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

DZ11: I'm obviously doing this wrong.

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

What would the jumpers be set to for a CSR of 160160 and a vector of 350? I have the manual and I've set them to 4 or 5 different addresses, but I must be doing it wrong as INIT never sees them.

28 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Wangtek tape drive

by henrio＠edu.tsai.es

Hi all, I've obtained one streamer tape drive, Wangtek Model 5099EN24. I have read that Linux can support it directly. Has anybody out there a driver for *S-DOS or *indows? Any idea on where could I find it? Thank you all. -- Sergio Izquierdo Garcia mailto:henrio@edu.tsai.es

28 years, 4 months

3
2
0 0

Ahhhh... Was RSTS sold bin-only?

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

Mine doesn't SYSGEN. It can't find any of the .MAC files. (The OS source?) Looks like I have a single-user system! None of the monitors like the DZ11. (Of which I got only one to work. The other must be toast or something, the machine refused to boot with it in) Back to square one! (The 600lb paperweight!)

28 years, 4 months

2
9
0 0

Apple /// update

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Upon closer examination, it appears that the Apple that I have is a ///plus. What is the relative rarity of this beast? Also, was there special software for it? What OS did it use? Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

New Apple finds

by adam＠merlin.net.au

Hi! I just had one of those wonderful days where I was destined to get a new computer or four. :) Nothing madly unique, I think, but they filled most of a hole in my collection. I followed a lead on a possible Apple or 2, and ended up making a deal where I swapped my extra four IIc's (a job lot with a pile of manuals - I wanted the manuals but already had the computer) for: Apple IIe enhanced Apple IIe Platinum Apple ///+ Apple IIgs Woz Edition and an LCD screen (Apple) for the IIc. My questions are simple - I know about the IIe's, which are common, but what about the LCD screen and the ///+? I had seen neither before in Australia, but this doesn't prove much. Are they moderatly common, uncommon or heaps rare? Although it is good to know why the LCD screen didn't sell - it works great, but you do have to be at a perfect angle, the screen is a very odd angle, and, although legible, it is still quite faint. Oh, and anyone know where I can get some Apple /// software? It came with some, but no Basic or games stuff. Best thing about today was the new contact - he gets in a lot of old apples, and will be happy to pass them on to me because he says that I am genuine, not someone trying to make money by taking them off him for resale. :) This is a good thing - before long I may finally have the entire non-Macintosh Apple line. Finally, someone was asking me about the Amstrad Notepads and their availability on Australia, A couple just came up for sale for half the normal second-hand price (still quite high, but they are still oddly popular) along with 2 Laser PC3s, a Laser PC2 an old Casio and an old NEC notepad/laptop thingy. I will pickup some for myslef, but I could pick up teh Amstrad if he wants one. :) Thanks heaps, Adam.

28 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Atari 130XE

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

Well today wasn't the best as far as hunting goes. One of my main finds was an Atari 130XE, the case is like my 520ST, but I'm possitive this is an 8-bit Atari. What is the story with this one, and can it use the same powersupply as my 520ST? If it can use it I think I'll finally have enough pieces to get an 8-bit Atari up and running. It has a cartridge port that looks like it will take the cartridges that go in the Atari 800 I've got (it's also missing a power supply). One major plus is it had the necessary cable to connect the computer to the floppy drive I picked up a month or so ago. Although the cable seems to be intended to go to this real cool looking little box, an "Atari 850 Interface Module", which is complete with a power supply, and a operaters manual. The operators manual has the following note, which I think is interesting "We have included a photocopy of the Operator's Manual in order to expedite initial delivery of the product", and it continues with instructions on how to get the printed manual. What was probably the biggest find was a Macintosh Colour Classic minus keyboard and mouse for $5.00, only has 4Mb of memory, but it just might end up replacing my SE/30 as my Word Processor. I just wish it could handle 32Mb of RAM like the SE/30, instead of a measly 10Mb (OK, I admit, that's more than I need for what I'm threating). The other good finds were a VIC-20 in the box, but missing the manuals (I've got those already). I found a VIC-1541 at another place, I'm hoping to get it cleaned up and running. Most of the rest was manuals and cables, along with a box of Amiga software (most originals). Also picked up a Daystar LT200 card (Still sealed in the anti-static bag) to connect a PC to LocalTalk, anyone know of any Linux support for this? I'd love to use my Linux server as a bridge between EtherTalk, and LocalTalk. Especially since I've got LocalTalk Software for my Amiga's, and the IIgs's will also do it. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Info on RQDX3

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

New day, new aggrivations... I've been trying to get an ST-212 drive formatted up as an RD51 so I can install a copy of Micro-RSTS onto one of my systems. Got the parameters to format the drive on my VS2000, and that seemed to go OK. Put the drive into the system (a MicroPDP 11/23), and it looked OK until I told the RSTS installer to prepare the drive, at which point it started complaining about various things, and claimed that the drive was an RD52?!? Back to the notes... Find a note that drives formatted on a VS2000 are not compatable with an RQDX1 controller... Whats in the 11/23? Yank the back off... Figures... An RQDX1! FOO!! Off to the board box... Locate an RQDX3, looks promising... Install it in the system... Now the system completes its self test and immediately complains about a "DU0 - ERR 15 Controller Error". WTH is this? Off to the book shelf... NUTZ! Latest book I've got only gets up to the RQDX1! Decide to bag it for the night... Put the RQDX1 back in... Same error??? AARGH!!! So to the questions: What is "DU0 - ERR 15 Controller Error" ? Did the RQDX1 perhaps munge the format on the drive during the install attempt? Anyone have a list of the jumpers on the RQDX3 that might be of use ? Can a RQDX3 be subbed straight across for an RQDX1 ? If not, does anyone have a formatter disk (or whatever) for the RQDX1 ? Why am I now getting the same error from the RQDX1 and the RQDX3 ? Anyone got a spare copy of a manual that covers the various RQDX? ? Foo! -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

28 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Classic Mags for sale=>Delaware Area

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

Just got this letter in E-Mail, and I knowing how valuable good reference material is, am passing the message along so if any of you on the classics list are interested please E-Mail him. I wish Delaware was a stone's throw away but it would take quite a propulsion system from my end of the U.S. QUOTE:========================================= Subject: computer magazines for sale Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 20:13:09 -0500 From: Ned Heite <eheite(a)dmv.com> To: @goldrush.com CC: hl(a)SFSU.EDU I need your advice. I started subscribing to computer magazines around 1977 or 78, got all the early Commodore stuff like Compute! and the others back before Compute!, and served a while on the InfoWorld review board, doing Commodore stuff. Wrote for many of the short-lived computer magazines of the early eighties. Anyway, I have about a pickup load of circa 1979-1988 computer literature. Saved everything. Have two C64 computers I'll part with. So far, you are the only person I have found who might know where I can unload these goodies. I don't want to put them on the dump but Boss Lady is getting a bit pissy about it. Is there a place where I can advertise on the net? The stuff is in central Delaware, about 2 hours from Philadelphia, Washington, or Baltimore. First reasonable offer takes it all. Where to I advertise? Please feel free to post this query on lists. Ned Heite eheite(a)dmv.com ENDQUOTE ========================================================= Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Miniscribe Hard Disk

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

what you have is a 10 meg HD - head is 2, cyl is 612 sect/trac is 17, rwc/wpc is 613/128, landing zone is 656, seek time is 85, interface is ST412/506, MFM drive. Hope this helps you. - John At 12:22 PM 11/28/97 +0000, you wrote: >Hello all, > >One of my recent finds is a Nixdorf 8810 (a PC/XT). It has one hard disk >drive, and it doesn?t start. It?s a Miniscribe Model 3212. > >Does anybody know its physical parameters (heads, cylinders, sectors)? > >Thank you in advance. > >-- >Sergio Izquierdo Garcia >mailto:henrio@edu.tsai.es > > > >

28 years, 4 months

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Apple /// adoption

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Today I adopted a 256k Apple ///. It has a single internal floppy drive and two add-in boards from Titan Technology. One is labeled "///+//" and the other is "///+//e". They are joined by a small 6-conductor ribbon cable and one contains RAM chips. Any idea what these are? Also, can someone point me to a good /// FAQ. Thanks! Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 4 months

2
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PS needed

by kyrrin2＠wizards.net

At 00:02 28-11-97 PST, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 00:17:07 +0000 >From: jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca >To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu >Subject: Re: Needed: Power Supply >Message-ID: <199711280513.AAA22397(a)mail.cgocable.net> >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >Bruce, Please ask other to rebuild that PSU this way. This is best >and much easier because the electronic components inside those PSU is >not that all strange and easily gotten. Capacitors are so cheap. ??? I'm not 100% sure I understand your syntax, but I think you're suggesting that I repair the existing supply. That's a great suggestion, and I would do it IF I had an adequate schematic diagram. Somehow, I don't think DEC would be willing to part with such anytime soon. Unless someone can suggest what component to look at (I think it's the +12 supply that's popping on and off), I will continue to pursue a replacement for now. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2(a)wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 4 months

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Needed: Power Supply

by kyrrin2＠wizards.net

Hi, folks, I've inherited a DEC VAXServer 3100 with a trio of RZ23 disk drives and a TZ30 tape drive. Looks like a fun unit to play with, but the power supply's bad (the LED blinks at about one-second intervals and the thing never boots). Anyone happen to have a spare PS? Failing that, can I yank the boards out of a VS3100 power supply and transplant them to the larger housing? Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2(a)wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 4 months

4
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IBM PC jr

by abrown＠waveone.net

Greetings, I noticed you answered another person`s questions about their PC jr. so I wonder if you could help me. The pins where the monitor plugs in have been broken off. Do you know of where I could get a new piece? Can I just use the A/V jacks to plug into my TV? Also where can I get some software or an IBM basic programming book? I would greatly appriciate any information you could give. Thank-You, Art Brown vice president Old Technologies Inc. <abrown(a)waveone.net>

28 years, 4 months

3
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New Apple finds

by TOwad＠aol.com

>and an LCD screen (Apple) for the IIc. My questions are simple - I know >about the IIe's, which are common, but what about the LCD screen and the >///+? I had seen neither before in Australia, but this doesn't prove much. >Are they moderatly common, uncommon or heaps rare? Although it is good to >know why the LCD screen didn't sell - it works great, but you do have to be >at a perfect angle, the screen is a very odd angle, and, although legible, >it is still quite faint. Oh, and anyone know where I can get some Apple /// >software? It came with some, but no Basic or games stuff. Both the LCD screen and Apple ///+ are quite rare. I've seen both sell for over $100 in auctions. The LCD screen is the rarer of the two. Not sure where to get software for the ///+. I have an Apple /// as well and not a single floppy for it. The Woz IIgs is one of my favorites, but its still not worth much. Sincerely, Tom Owad

28 years, 4 months

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Miniscribe Hard Disk

by henrio＠edu.tsai.es

Hello all, One of my recent finds is a Nixdorf 8810 (a PC/XT). It has one hard disk drive, and it doesn?t start. It?s a Miniscribe Model 3212. Does anybody know its physical parameters (heads, cylinders, sectors)? Thank you in advance. -- Sergio Izquierdo Garcia mailto:henrio@edu.tsai.es

28 years, 4 months

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Talk Of Building A Computer...

by manney＠nwohio.com

> PG Manney wrote: > > > I forget who (Murray Leinster?) wrote "A Logic Named Joe", which very > > closely describes the information explosion of the Internet. > > Astounding Magazine, March 1946, under his real name of Will F. Jenkins. > Anthologised several times. I know I've got it around here somewhere, > have to track it down and reread it, it's been a few years. > <http://www.lrt.org/18m.jpg> (The one with the beard) Is it a fake beard? : >

28 years, 4 months

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IBM PC jr

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

If need one I can get you another PCjr case to use for parts and a the basic manual that came with the jr for cost plus shipping. Cost for PCjr and book about $3. At 11:03 PM 11/27/97 +0000, you wrote: >Greetings, >I noticed you answered another person`s questions about their PC jr. >so I wonder if you could help me. >The pins where the monitor plugs in have been broken off. >Do you know of where I could get a new piece? Can I just use the A/V >jacks to plug into my TV? Also where can I get some software or an >IBM basic programming book? >I would greatly appriciate any information you could give. >Thank-You, > >Art Brown >vice president >Old Technologies Inc. ><abrown(a)waveone.net> > > >

28 years, 4 months

1
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New find

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

It's a model LT-3200 40 by Paoku P&C LTD. I plug it in and get nothing, no power brick is used, cord plugs into back of unit. There are no sounds, lights, or anything when I try to power on the unit. At 06:55 PM 11/27/97 +0000, you wrote: >> Found a Bell&Howell Schools Oscilloscope model 10D-4540 for $15 at Goodwill >> not tested yet. Found a Aquarius complete in 2 boxes for 29.95, got the >> computer, data recorder, miniexpander, thermal printer, FileForm cartridge, >> FinForm cartridge, Tron Deadly Disc and Utopia cartridges, and 16k memory >> expander. Also got the game controllers. This had all the manuals and cables >> too. Picked up 3 older laptops, 2 worked and had carrying cases with >> manuals. Looking forward to the weekend for more finds. > >What's this one laptop that did not work: brand and what's problem? > >Troll > >

28 years, 4 months

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Talk Of Building A Computer...

by manney＠nwohio.com

> If anybody on this list reads science fiction in the spare time left > over from rebuilding computers, _The Difference Engine_ by William > Gibson and Bruce Sterling is a fairly good read and _In the Country of > the Blind_ by Michael J. Flynn is an excellent one. Both of these > novels build from the premise "What if Babbage succeeded?" in very > different ways. I forget who (Murray Leinster?) wrote "A Logic Named Joe", which very closely describes the information explosion of the Internet.

28 years, 4 months

2
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IBM 5100 ???

by foxvideo＠wincom.net

I have just had an IBM 5100 "Portable" computer (circa 1976) donated, along with a 5103 printer and a 5106 tape drive. No documentation or software, so could anyone tell me what I have, what operating system it used, and what kind of tapes? Thanks Charlie Fox

28 years, 4 months

5
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EBCDIC

by David_A._Vandenbroucke＠hud.gov

> DOes anyone have a computer which uses the EBCDIC character set, rather than > ASCII (did I get the acronym right? what does it stand for anyway)? I've never heard of a microcomputer that used EBCDIC, but there are a lot of things of which I've never heard. It is used in IBM mainframes and minis. Here at HUD we have a Hitachi mainframe that emulates an IBM, and it uses EBCDIC internally. We have file transfer utilities that take care of translating into ASCII as necessary. What does it stand for? Gee, it's been a long time. Let's see. According to the "SAS Compantion for the MVS Environment," it stands for Extended Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Code. That sounds redundant, but that's IBM for you. --Dav david_a._vandenbroucke(a)hud.gov

28 years, 4 months

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IBM 5100 ???

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> <Didn't DEC make a tabletop model of one of the PDP8's (PDP8/e?) which had <handles? That would date from about the same time as the P850 A number of the 8 series aquired desktop status but never by intent portable. They simply weren't rack bound. The HP???? struck me as something portable(toteable) as it was a complete machine that could be moved be moved from one place to another as a unit. The earliest thing I'd seen that was portable was a home brew 8080 system with build in keyboard and TV RF output back in '75 and it wasn't a PT SOL. Though the core of it was S100 boards from an altair. Allison

28 years, 4 months

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New find

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Found a Bell&Howell Schools Oscilloscope model 10D-4540 for $15 at Goodwill not tested yet. Found a Aquarius complete in 2 boxes for 29.95, got the computer, data recorder, miniexpander, thermal printer, FileForm cartridge, FinForm cartridge, Tron Deadly Disc and Utopia cartridges, and 16k memory expander. Also got the game controllers. This had all the manuals and cables too. Picked up 3 older laptops, 2 worked and had carrying cases with manuals. Looking forward to the weekend for more finds.

28 years, 4 months

2
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Talk Of Building A Computer...

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> > Another fun project would be that nowawadays with modern materials and > > computer controlled machining, it is now possible to make parts to the > > tolerances necessary to build a functional Analytical Engine. Anybody > > know where I can get a good copy of Babbage's designs? > It's been done. I read an article in the Scientific American a few > years back, where some guys from the British Museum, I think, built > the Analytical Engine according to Babbages design. > > They corrected a couple of minor design flaws (some speculate that > Babbage put them there on purpose to discourage Industrial > Espionage), and fabricated the whole thing from several tons of > Iron, brass, and bronze parts. > > They didn't have funding to build the whole machine (the printer > alone is an engineering marvel), but the machine worked! They > succeeded where Babbage had failed. What I saw demonstrated at the Science Museum (part of the British Museum) 5 years ago was a working _difference_ engine. This had a couple of design bugs fixed (one in the ripple carry mechanism IIRC) and no printer. I don't recall anything about an analytical engine being built at this time. Has it been done since? Do tell! Philip.

28 years, 4 months

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C= PC Clone?

by adam＠merlin.net.au

>I never knew Commodore made PC clones. There's one at the Goodwill. And >a couple Aquarius keyboards. Never seen one of those either although >I've heard about them plenty of times. I have the PC-10 here, so I knew about this. :) There was also, from memory, the Commodore Colt and PC-30. I also seem to think there was a PC-5, but I can be corrected on this. I imagine there were later models as well. What was interesting for me was spotting a Commodore MS-DOS laptop recently. I thought that the only commodore laptop was the prototype C-64 laptop - I wasn't aware that Commodore made any more, even if it was only a pc clone. UNfortunatly they were asking too much for me, although I would have considered it if I could afford the machine. Adam.

28 years, 4 months

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Speaking of punched tape...

by manney＠nwohio.com

Has anyone ever built a Braille writer out of a punched tape machine? It seems to me that slight mods (i.e. embossing, not punching) would be needed. I have a blind (she doesn't like to be called "visually challenged") friend who asked me about OCR-to-Braille conversion, and I thought I'd ask you all... ps Speaking of political correctness, how do you take _your_ coffee? I like mine Hispanic (rather than Caucasian or African-American) in color, and bitterly challenged...

28 years, 4 months

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Intel MDS etc

by saltmabr＠boat.bt.com

Hello All, Can anyone help. I currently build my software on Intel Series III and NRM machines, problem is they are getting old and un-reliable. Does anyone know of a simulator which can be used to build ISIS environment software on a PC. I have tried ISIM, but that is limited to Series II (8085) applications. Regards Barry Saltmarsh

28 years, 4 months

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Listserv?

by Zeus334＠aol.com

What is the e-mail address of the server for this list? I need to subscribe with a different address.

28 years, 4 months

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C= PC Clone?

by gmast＠polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu

I never knew Commodore made PC clones. There's one at the Goodwill. And a couple Aquarius keyboards. Never seen one of those either although I've heard about them plenty of times. GM

28 years, 4 months

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Finds today

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Well the last few days have slow again Holidays I guess. Picked up a Alpha Micro model AM1051-12 AM-410 SN 2517. It's a heavy unit and I have not powered it up yet. Anyone have any info on it. A TRS-80 RS232 Interface selector not tested. A AST-2000 Subsystem model MAC-200, anyone know what this unit is ? Four Mac IIci cases for parts only the guy let me have them for free. A Ultimate model 25 by ADDS with one aux port and EIA current loop port. That's it so far for the week. As far as prices no unit cost over $6.

28 years, 4 months

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TRS-80 (Enrico, Bill, and anyone else that cares)

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-11-25 21:12:49 EST, Cord Coslor put forth: > This has got to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard: Cord <- vs -> Enrico argument deleted: I thought this was friendly discussion of old computer collecting, not alt.flame! put it in private, this is more off topic than complaining about the 10 year rule.

28 years, 4 months

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MITS/Pertec/Sperry??

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Found the following on alt.folklore.computers: >>Pertec got bought by Sperry in the early '80s. So you'd probably >>want to check with Unisys (if anyone can still find the stuff >>after all those moves). Can anyone verify this? Maybe we should contact Unisys? Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 4 months

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TRS-80 (Enrico, Bill, and anyone else that cares)

by coslor＠pscosf.peru.edu

Enrico: This has got to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. After being out of town for _Thanksgiving_ (I am a full-time college student and am now with family for a short break) I decided I might telnet back in and check my e-mail. Boy, am I glad I did. I wouldn't have wanted to miss you telling me that I was purposely trying to avoid you. You say in the second message from you, "I see that you are playing hard to get AGAIN." Yes, you're right, Enrico, I am scared of you (not really). Anyway, I will respond to both of your e-mails... one dated Nov 24 the other Nov 25. Boy, I certainly shouldn't have missed a day of checking my e-mail.... I'd hate to anger you for not checking the first e-mail from you immediately. In response to the e-mail dated Nov 24: you say you are unhappy with a transaction that took months to progress. You sent me an MSX (from UK), I sent you a TRS-80 Model 1. To tell you the truth, I am very unhappy with the transaction as well. First, it has been a huge pain in the rear-end >from the beginning. All I have heard from you is far-fetched reason for bitching... just another damn ploy to stir up a little trouble? Second, a point I have never even said to you before because I figured it might have happened in shipping, etc., is the fact the damn MSX doesn't even work. I'm not going to sue you though Enrico. Next, we have you saying you are unhappy with the transaction because the computer I sent isn't the one we agreed upon. Frankly, that's a big bunch of BS. You say in this letter that I told you and the list I would send one without the numeric keyboard. If I remember correctly you asked if I could send you the first TRS-80, this is true. Then in future discussion I asked you specifically what you wanted. You said you didn't even know what you wanted, just a model 1. I sent you the damn model 1. Enrico, you know something.... I don't even have a TRS-80 Model 1 without the numeric keyboard on the right hand side. Now tell me this, why the hell would I promise to ship one to you if _I_ didn't even have one?? Common sense (which you seem to lack quite a bit of) would tell you that I wouldn't do that. Next you _claim_ the computer is cracked or some damn thing like that. Well, I can promise that when I sent it is was just fine. No cracks, screws floating around nothing. And I can also promise the thing worked just great. You know how? Because I was using it up until the time I shipped it. You sure as hell didn't even send me something that was working. How do _I_ know... because if you knew it was working you would have powered it up and it still hadn't even had a power cable hooked to it. I put the correct voltage through it, I get power, but then it dies. Again, I won't sue you, Enrito. Then you say that I didn't send the power supply and the instructions. Then you say, quote, "(yes I know I told you that I was not interested in the power supply...I did send you the instructions.) Well, you answered your own darn complaint, Enrico. You didn't want the power supply. If you say, as you did, that we were swapping the exact same thing, you didn't send me a seperate power supply. :-) You did send me a xeroxed copy of the instructions, which I appreciate... I grant you that there. But, I honestly did not realise I was supposed to send you any manuals. I certainly can copy some off I guess. Or, you might even be able to check any number of web sites that contain much, much more information that any manual I would send you contains. Next, you talk about the fact that my machine to you was sent months after I said it did. It was, and I notified you the parcel was returned to me, at my expense. I even sent you an e-mail telling yuo about this, and that I even was going to re-use your box and packing as it would not be as quite a fit as what I had previously sent it in. Plus the original boxed was stamped and labeled throughout. I didn't think it'd cause a lawsuit. Then you say for me to just put everything right and it would be forgotten. Well, I don't have anything to put right... especially not at my expense. I will agree to send you POS MSX back to you, if you'll return my Model 1. How's that? LETTER # 2 - Nov. 25 Already replied to your comments about me playign ahrd to get. Then you say I should send you the model 1 with no numeric key-pad. You say they are hard to find in the UK, but worth 2 pennies here. Well, Enrico, I don't have one, so maybe someone else on this list will gladly ship you one of those. I'm sure they'd be happy to pick up where I refuse to continue to go. You say by me doing this, that any $$$ expense I incure will certainly be worth in terms of respectibility. You threaten me by saying that, "I will expose the whole lot in public on the list and in my site, and I will also write to the major Internet zines and news sites." Well guess what, Enrico, I personally don't care. As a matter of fact, I didn't even care enough to let your shitty side of the deal bother me. I guess I'm just not a hot-headed trouble maker looking for problems. Then you say, if necessary, you will ask a judge to put this right. Go for it, buddy. I didn't do anything wrong. If anyone did anything wrong, it was you. You didn;t even have a clue as to TRS-80s or what you wanted, and that seems to be the only thing I could have (if I even had one!) made different.... you would have had complete info. on what you wanted. Enrico, I can't even express how much this whole deal is a giant crock of $%!^. It is completely unrational statements by you that make this out to be something is not. I in no way intended to make this difficult, or trick you into sending you the 'wrong' machine or anything else. I know you didn't intend that either. But, should I just run around saying you had everything to do with the problems, etc., etc.? No. I don't beleive it was anyone else fault by _our own_. That's right, I don't think it was mine, and I don't think it was yours. What comes out of this will be two little kids fighting back and forth. Frankly, I have better things to do with my time. If you don't have better things to do, well, go ahead and slander my name wherever you want to. I don't care. No one has every had any problems with me, nor have I had with them. I sit back, read the newsgroups and listservs I get, trying to add to my collection and learn. I've already learned enough from doing this that I don't want to be part of these squables that go on for months at a time. So, I say, pay our own expenses, trade back, and it'll be over. Then you can find someone else who will ship you a Model 1 with _no_ numeric keyboard and I won't have to bother with you. When I first got into contact with you about a deal like this, it was just after a huge debate between you and others. "others" were saying it was hard to do these transactions over-seas. You responded on a whole thread of messages that those people that thought it was hard to do, were nuts, and made it into some type of international war. You know what, just because of that thread, I thought I would try transcting with you just to prove all my fellow Americans wrong. I had never done it before over-seas, and thought it would be a good learning experience. I guess I wasn't able to prove my fellow Americans wrong, but I did prove it to you. And I certainly proved it to myself. Love Always, Enrico. CORD G. COSLOR P.S. has anyone else out there ever thought I was 'playing hard to get?' Didn't think so. Oh, for all you judges, internet zines, newsgroups, listservs, web sites, executioners, and anyone else that's going to hate me because of this: please, please understand I am innocent. I don't want you all to hate me, and Mr. Judge, please don't make me pay the $18 to reimburse Enrico for silly reasons.. Please, please, please.... (the above is very synical, and like I said-- it's all set right if we just swap back. SOund simple enough? Didn't think so, Enrico... we need to make it _much_ more difficult.) :-) :-) <-- those are smiley faces. Ever smile? If not, Enrico, think about it all this logically.... trust me, it will make you smile. //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor(a)bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*//

28 years, 4 months

2
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Now it's a RSTS problem.

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

Now INIT says the CSR for the booted device (The UDA50? That's what it's booted from...) is non-standard, and RU0: (WHatever that is) is not interrupting and is disabled. RU0: is not in my manual. Neither is anything about the UDA50. So, I'm stuck again! Anyway, I'm gonna go try fitting this into the racks... Anyone got any ideas before I go try figuring it out on my own?

28 years, 4 months

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FW: Someone help this fellow?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From: kyrrin2(a)wizards.net <Subject: DEC 1 computer (circ. 1982) <problem is a disk errors when he tries to boot. I presume (as I have <yet to inspect the machine myself) the trouble to be with either the <boot disk drive (8" Shugart floppy drive) or the system disk. The <problem could be as simple as a dirty r/w head or a worn felt pad that <presses disk against the r/w head or as bad as a fried system disk. <Though as a tech I have worked on several machines of this era, I am <at a disadvantage in this case seeing that I have never seen a DEC 1 <running properly or at all for that matter. The ONLY possibility is a DEC VT180 as that is the only DEC hardware I know with shugart floppy drives (sa400l 5.25" single sided). DEC used RX01/02/03/6 which was calcomp drives. DEC-1???? need more info. could he mean a decmate-I Still used RX01/2. <a) Spare parts or a PM kit for a Shugart 8" floppy drive <b) Someone who has spare system or boot disk for a DEC 1 that they < might be willing to part with <c) someone who has a clue or any usefull insight! A better description of the system and a better description of the problem would make easier to suggest solutions. Allison

28 years, 4 months

1
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FW: Someone help this fellow?

by kyrrin2＠wizards.net

Can anyone help this fellow out? I've never even heard of a "DEC 1" (unless he means a MicroVAX 1?) Forwarded message follows. Please respond directly to the author. Thanks! -=-=- <snip> -=-=- Xref: xyzzy comp.sys.dec:18347 Path: xyzzy!uunet!not-for-mail From: mrogers(a)capecod.net (mr) Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec Subject: DEC 1 computer (circ. 1982) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 08:21:08 GMT Lines: 20 Message-ID: <347a81fe.29676018(a)newshost.capecod.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ost55.capecod.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Anyone out there ever see one of these beasties? A freind of mine has ask me to resusitate his beloved dinosuar, so here it goes. The problem is a disk errors when he tries to boot. I presume (as I have yet to inspect the machine myself) the trouble to be with either the boot disk drive (8" Shugart floppy drive) or the system disk. The problem could be as simple as a dirty r/w head or a worn felt pad that presses disk against the r/w head or as bad as a fried system disk. Though as a tech I have worked on several machines of this era, I am at a disadvantage in this case seeing that I have never seen a DEC 1 running properly or at all for that matter. So what I'm looking for is: a) Spare parts or a PM kit for a Shugart 8" floppy drive b) Someone who has spare system or boot disk for a DEC 1 that they might be willing to part with c) someone who has a clue or any usefull insight! Thanx for reading.

28 years, 4 months

1
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RD51 format parameters?

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

I should probably know this by now, or be able to figure it out, but its been one of those weeks to far, with no signs of improvement... I need to format up an ST-212 drive as an RD51 (don't ask, I just need to) and can not for the life of me remember (or find my notes) the parameters to feed the formatter on my VS2000 to format this thing. Anyone have these parameters at hand? (Ok... I'm trying to load Micro-RSTS on one of my machines, and the distribution disk set installer demands an RD51 as the system drive) Thanks! -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

28 years, 4 months

2
1
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Rubbery Bits Gone Gooey

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Lately a friend has been trying to copy a tape for an HP 2645 terminal. Thus far he has discovered a problem with tape drives in two terminals. His description of the problem is that, when used, the motor capstan in the tape drive "melts". In one case he has not been able to get all the ex-capstan goo off of the belt capstan in the cartridge; fortunately that was a blank tape. My first thought was, hmm, this sounds like the problem the calculator folks have with the rubbery wheels that go gooey. I have one of these terminals too, but it's a bit buried in storage and I haven't got it out yet. (In fact, the tape contains games and he is trying to copy it because I expressed interest...of course, now I am thinking that when I dig the terminal out I need to open it up and check the capstans before I go and jam a tape in.) Instead I found the May 1976 issue of the HP Journal, which was smaller, lighter, closer to the front, and does a pretty good job of demonstrating how proud HP was of having fit tape drives to HP 264x terminals. What have I found out? The motor capstan has an aluminum core with an elastomer coating that is ground to the right size during manufacture. Said elastomer was chosen for quick recovery from the dent that forms in it when the loaded tape isn't moving (as the capstan is held against the tape cartridge's belt capstan). So now I guess I have two questions. One is just what do the calculator folks do about rubbery wheels gone gooey? And the other is, can I do something like that for these drives? Given that the object of this capstan is to press against and drive something less flexible than a magnetic card (the belt capstan in a DC100 tape cartridge) I'm not sure the same sort of material would work. And an observation: the HP 9815A desktop calculator I have sitting here seems to use a similar drive (at least the capstan looks similar when I peer in the slot), and I think the HP 85 does too. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 4 months

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PET Finds

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

From: Grant Zozman <gzozman(a)escape.ca> Subject: Re: Commodore PET finds. >Scott Walde wrote: >> >> I also got 4 'MSD Super Disk Drive' model SD-1. These look similar in >> design to the external TRS-80 drives (except they're cream coloured). >> They have two 6-pin DIN plugs and an IEEE-488(?) plug. Are these what I >> think they are? (Drives that will work on the VIC-20/C-64 and PETs) I >> don't have any 6pin cables to try these on a VIC. I haven't tried them on >> a PET yet, either. Any idea what format these would be? (2040, 8050?) >The MSD drive will definitely work with a C-64. By extension, I belive >this means it will also work with the VIC-20. Not sure about PET >compatibility, though I believe the IEEE-488 interface was provided for >PET's. And they will work on the PET too! Yes, that is an IEEE-488 interface. and I have had mine (an SD-2, pretty cool drive!) hooked to my PET (before I sold it). and it provides you with 1541/4040 compatibility. Though not EXACT, as that would have violated Commodore's copyrights. I have read you can get JiffyDOS for various 3rd party drives and I think the MSD was one of them. Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 4 months

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Intro msg: Teraks, emulators, reviving cassette data

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Well there were -10s and then there were -10s. Ours consisted of 25 19" <style rack cupboards next to each other (so it was about 40 odd feet in <length). There were three racks for the CPU, four for memory (we had 256KW That was a big ten! But compare it to a 9020(360/60) used by the FAA. Or for that fact some of the -10s used by compuserve, they had some really huge ones and not just a few. The biggest one inside DEC was the MARKET cluster, yep four -10s clustered sharing the same disk field. But a lot of 10s were small 128kw, swapdrum, maybe four RP04s and an 8I or 8E for IO control. The whole mess was two rows 24ft long. The CPU box alone for the 360 next door was 4x the size of the KA10 cpu. that seems big but a PDP-11 of that era would be 3-4 standard racks plus drives. <There were plans for the so called Jupiter system which was due to ship Jupiter was due to ship around '84 the 780 was sold in '78! The story is this (I worked in the mill at the time) Jupiter was required to perform at 4x the last System10/20. The best the design team could accomplish was 2x (subtantial enough but below design goal). It was also competing for resources(money) to design and build the 86xx (nautalus). What wasn't known was the cutomer base was hungry for even 2x increase. The day it was canceled was a very dark one for the engineering groups. <Sitting at home I have all the necessary bits to put together an Apple II <system to run UCSD Pascal. All I need is the time and the software (the on <bit I don't have). The reason for wanting this is Carl Helmers Byte articl <so many years ago describing such a system - for me the first microcompute <that was usable rather than a "toy" to play with. The appleII was more useful than most of the other non s100 systems like trs-80s which didn't have solid hardware at that time(EI timing problems). if you had a solid trs80 you could run UCSD psystem. I was running Psystem on a Northstar horizon with three drives and it was a useful system. Allison

28 years, 4 months

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Intro msg: Teraks, emulators, reviving cassette data

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Why, I thought I'd get a few replies about my Terak computer collection, as described in my intro message on 11/18. Anyone out there have any experience with these? - John www.threedee.com/jcm

28 years, 4 months

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Intro msg: Teraks, emulators, reviving cassette data

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

found a small written piece talking about the Terak 8510 with a LSI-11 processor, 20k words of 16 bit memory, 256k floppy drive, came out in January of 1977, cost at the time of over $5000, had RS232 and 20mA current loop serial interfaces. Software was Basic and Fortran. Hope this helps Keep computing - John At 10:31 AM 11/24/97 -0600, you wrote: > >Why, I thought I'd get a few replies about my Terak computer >collection, as described in my intro message on 11/18. >Anyone out there have any experience with these? > >- John >www.threedee.com/jcm > > >

28 years, 4 months

1
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PROGRESS! It booted!

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

I was fiddling and I pulled the NPG from the Unibus ribbon cable and the machine will boot now! But when I try starting RSTS timesharing (START command to the bootloader [Is that INIT?]) it lists devices it disables and hangs there. I can see an LED go high on the 2nd UDA board (The one that doesn't connect to the drives), stay high for a second, then go lo, strobe, and repeat. The READY lamp on the RA81 has died, so I can't really tell what's happening... I'll go RTFM tonight, but if anyone knows for sure what's happening, it'd be nice to know!

28 years, 4 months

1
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Talk Of Building A Computer...

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-11-21 06:21:27 EST, HOTZE put forth: > PS- I've been looking for this for months. Does anyone know where I can find > the latest version of Elisa (Or another good AI) on the net? Elsewhere? elisa? that program that asks you the same open ended question? i may have a similar program if there really is an interest. david

28 years, 4 months

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[PDP-11/44]: OK, this has become an emergency situation!

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

Here's the deal: Our landlord (at work) showed up. He was not happy with the '44, at all. It is currently in an unused room. (I have no other place to put it!) It looks quite ugly, as it's not working and all over the place. I cleaned up the best I can, but it's not enough. Since nor my business nor me can afford the spare room, I have been given orders to make it look nice. I have 3 days. After which, if the room does not meet his standards, he'll take the computer and feed it to the scrap man. I can't afford the room, I'm broke. And I can't move it anywhere else. Basically, I have 3 days to get everything back in the racks. And working if possible. Or else, whatever I can't fit in my car is property of the building owner, and then the scrap metal man. If I can make it run, I can put it in the main office (maybe). The uPDPs and such have to find another place to stay... One'll end up at my house, and the others probably in storage. I have things almost ready. The 2 BA11s power on, but there appears to be no bus continuity. The arragement has the CPU and RAM in the master BA11, and the UDA50 in the other. No DZs or anyhting yet. The lights on the UDA stobe normally, but it refuses to boot. It is in an NPG slot (I looked, the CA1 wire is cut), like it was originally. Just those MASSBUS backplanes are gone. I have NPGs in every available slot. There is one terminator, at the end of the bus. WHat am I doing wrong?

28 years, 4 months

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CGA & clock speeds

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<booted but did not give a display. I could tell it was working by <entering <DOS commands. I tried then at 5.33 MHz. It booted & ran OK (as far as <and found that the CGA card depends on the 14.31818 oscilator to run <properly. <Since the processor seemed to be running OK at 8 MHz, what I want to do Simple make sure you supply 14.31818 to the ISA bus from a seperate oscillator (or put it on the CGA card and bypass the buss connection). The problem is that much of the machine is timed off that clock. it is generated either using then 8284A clock generator or or a TTL oscillator can. The 8088 is driven off the 8284A (it supplies the correct 33% duty cycle closk) so it could be done as two seperate sources. There were "upgrades" that did exactly that yo yeild turbo systems. Allison

28 years, 4 months

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IBM s/36

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> I=B4m afraid this computer is off-topic (dated 1988). Sorry.=20 Never mind. There were system/36 machines around in 1985 and even earlier... > An IBM 5363-I has recently been given to me, but I don=B4t know anything > at all about its internal architecture or capabilities. I only own the > Central Unit; no cables, no floppies, no tapes, no manuals, no > terminals. I don't know the system/36 awfully well - I worked more on system/34s - how big is this physically? The 5362 was desk-side, the 5364 desktop (the same box as the PC/AT), but I don't know the 5363 (probably after my time if it's 1988). > * It has two 15-pin sub-d connectors in one expansion card. They seem to > be for attaching two serial terminals (syncronous? type 5250?) Dunno. Probably not 5250 - these hang in chains (pun intended) off the twinax ports. > * In another expansion board it has a 9-pin sub-d connector. > * There are too four twin-axial connectors. Four? Quite a sizeable system, then. > Can anybody help me on this subject? > > Thanks in advance. Just my tuppence worth! I'd guess you've got a fairly powerful (by 1980s standards) machine. Philip.

28 years, 4 months

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Talk Of Building A Computer...

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hello... some time ago, there was talk of building a computer, and now I think that I've got a (bad, possibly) idea. In the earlier half of this century, transistors weren't avaible... vaccum tubes... huge ones, but now, the transistor has made small ones possible. My point: If we were to take a tubed design, and re-build it with transistors, we could probably make it a decent size. So, what da ya think? Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 4 months

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Case designs (was: New Definiton REQUIRED)

by manney＠nwohio.com

>Some people (esp. on this list) may not realize it, but there are actually >hordes of people out there who go their entire lives without ever owning a >single screwdriver. Which is why I've got two in/on my laptop case, several >in my laptop "kit", and a swiss army knife with a flat sd, phillips sd, >pliers, and (8^) corkscrew. I treated myself to a Leatherman folding tool 6 months ago. It's got a very well-made #1/#2 combination phillips, plus a very nice pliers & other stuff, even a tiny screwdriver (screweler's jewdriver, as my spoonerist father would have said). $40 at Wal-Mart, and the best tool purchase I've _ever_ made. It hangs on my belt all the time -- even take it to church. I'm always ready to fix. Buy one. manney(a)nwohio.com Murphy was an optimist!

28 years, 4 months

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TRS-80 Model I

by foxvideo＠wincom.net

At 05:13 PM 11/23/97 +0000, you wrote: > > >On Sun, 23 Nov 1997, Charles E. Fox wrote: Thanks, Tony, I will give it a try. Charlie > >> >> On a TRS-80 Model I, no expansion unit, I am getting the left half of the >> screen filled with graphics and the right half with scrambled text. Does >> anyone have a suggestion of where I should start looking for the solution >> to this problem? > >Well, it's been 5 years since I read the Model 1 technical reference >manual, but I can still remember some bits of it (I hope).. > >Start by opening the case, laying the 2 boards out component-side up, and >connecting power and video. If you want step-by-step instructions on how >to do that, please ask. Turn on the machine. Is it fixed? If so, suspect a >solder-ball short (these were quite common one some batches, I believe) or >a problem in the keyboard cable, which carries the Z80 bus. In fact, >checking that keyboard cable for continuity (with the machine off, of >course) wouldn't be a bad idea. > >OK, still not fixed? Check the PSU. The 0V line is the -ve side of the >largest capacitor on the board, and all the supply rails go to the DRAM >chips (-5V on pin 1, +12V on pin 8, +5v on pin 9). > >Now switch off and pull the shunt block (it looks like an IC, but has >metal shorting bars on it only). That disables all the DRAMs. Turn on >again. On a Level1 machine (and I believe a level 2 machine, but my manual >isn't that clear) you'll get a 32*16 display of colons. If that occurs, >then you've probably got RAM or RAM addressing problems. > >Switch off again, and pull the ROMs (or on a level 2 machine, pull the 24 >pin ribbon cable from the ROM socket). Turn on again. The Z80 data bus is >pulled high, so the machine executes continual RST38 instructions and >fills all of the memory with 39 00 (the return address, of course). The >display will fill with alternate '@' and '9' symbols, in 64*16 mode. If >that works, then you have ROM trouble, I think. > >If you still don't get the right display, reseat the Z80, and then use a >scope/logic probe/LogicDart to find out (a) what the Z80 is doing, (b) >what the buses are doing and (c) what the video controller is doing. > > >> >> Thanks >> Charlie Fox >> >> > >-tony > > >

28 years, 4 months

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CGA & clock speeds

by defaultuser＠mail.mankato.msus.edu

Hello, I hope this mail goes to the right place as I'm not on the list; here goes: I am messing about with an 8088-based clone to see what I can do with it for cheap thrills & a good learning experience. So far, I have installed a V20 chip which decreased processing time by about 7%. I then tried to clock it at 10 MHz (the rating of the chip), but this failed to produce any results (the 'puter did not boot.) I tried at 8MHz, and the computer booted but did not give a display. I could tell it was working by entering DOS commands. I tried then at 5.33 MHz. It booted & ran OK (as far as I could tell), but the display was all messed up. I then did some research and found that the CGA card depends on the 14.31818 oscilator to run properly. Since the processor seemed to be running OK at 8 MHz, what I want to do is find a way to send a proper clock signal to the CGA card while clocking the main board at 8MHz. Or will changing to a different monitor (like VGA) make the clock speed irrelevant? Is CGA the only clock-dependant display type? Thanks in advance, Dave

28 years, 4 months

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Rubbery Bits Gone Gooey

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<instead of the vinyl, would a small section of heat-shrink tubing work? Ni <it a little longer than the thickness of said ferrule, then hit it with I presume over the gummy roller. The problem is the ferrule for the tu58 is 0.435 od, the roller is 0.625 od. The gummey material does not hold shape in the advanced cases of rot. The tygon tubing has a 0.385 ID and when stretched over the ferrule has a od of 0.610 after grinding. This is adaquate as the tape speed is servo controlled via read back data. Having worked with machines used to produce pharmaceuticals I have a better than average appreciation for various elastic materials. There are many of them to choose from and the urethanes or neopyene are a good choices but Tygon(aka Vinyl) thick wall tubing is a easy one to obtain and use and proven satisfactory. The later ease of availability and use are key in the selection. Allison Allison

28 years, 4 months

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Rubbery Bits Gone Gooey

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I have told my friend not to toss the drives so I think one or the <other of us will have some to play with now. Thanks for the tips; <it's, well, reassuring that someone has already figured something out. They are repairable. <The only thing I'm worried about w/r/t hardness is whether that will <create additional wear or reduced traction with the belt capstan. The belt capstan is very hard. The tygon after 6months of constnt use has shown good wear and the same tape has been used with no bad effects nor are any expected. I could think of a dozen materials I'd like to try but this was the only one available and its worked remarkably well. Allison

28 years, 4 months

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NEC Starlet probs

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

I have to say I love my new Starlet (PC-8401-A, CP/M laptop) but it seems to have a problem. When turned off, the memory gets all scrambled. The longer it's off, the more scrambled it gets, until any saved files are gone and the directory entries are filled with garbage filenames. Formatting RAM1 clears it, but it will happen again. I've tried leaving it plugged in and made sure that there are fresh batteries in it. Nothing helps. Also, when it's on, the low battery light comes on or flickers, even if its plugged in. Thanks in advance... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 4 months

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DECMate III

by Zeus334＠aol.com

A relative of mine has a DecMate III. It comes with a cheap word processor. I have used it, and have found it very difficult, worse than vi or something. Could someone tell me if there is any use for it? It has no hard drive...

28 years, 4 months

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Rubbery Bits Gone Gooey

by fmc＠reanimators.org

allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent) wrote: > this is also common to DEC TU58 tape system (also a dc100 cart). Yep, I forgot about those. Sorry about that. > The solution I've used to date is to first strip the goo off the alumninum > ferrule that is on the drive. Then I found a peice of tygon(vinal) clear > tubing that had the required ID for a tight fit. I cut a ring the width of > the original(cut squarely and clean) and proceded to glue it on using > superglue (cyanoacrylic). then I run it up on a spare motor and grind it > using a emery board. The last step it insure roundness. I've done this > for 6 tu58 drives and it seems to work fine. It's noisier as it's harder > but seems to have enough friction to drive the tape well. I have told my friend not to toss the drives so I think one or the other of us will have some to play with now. Thanks for the tips; it's, well, reassuring that someone has already figured something out. The only thing I'm worried about w/r/t hardness is whether that will create additional wear or reduced traction with the belt capstan. > The material is not the best possible choice (polyurethane might be better) > but I had it handy and it's easy to find. Between uses I pull the tape to > avoid dents that seem to cause no problems other then making the drive > very noisy. It's been in use for about a year, so the tygon hardening > from age was a concern. However it works and it's easy enough to do again > if needed. Pulling the tape is sound anyway, at least in the bigger QIC drives that I've dealt with, leaving the tape in sometimes results in the tape getting dents from having the head pushed into it for so long. Today I ran into Paul Coad and he mentioned seeing similar stuff happening to QIC drives, and I think I've seen it too on some HP 9144s. This could be extra nasty on 9144s: they use tapes that look like QIC but have some subtle differences, like being preformatted with block markers written with a special full-width head and I suspect (from experience with a drive that was trashing tapes) that you can scribble over the block markers if the tape speed isn't right. Of course, once you do that the tape is mechanically OK but the drive will not let you load it. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 4 months

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Update on finds

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

They have 8085A chips with '76 dates on them. Thanks for the info and now to try and test them. At 09:21 AM 11/23/97 -0800, you wrote: >> I also found in the >> same box 12 Intel boards dated copyright 1976 with white keys, a red lED >> readout, a boxed area marked Bus Expansion Drivers filled with various >> chips, TTY interface boxed area, PROM area, Address Decoder area, and all >> kinds of things on these boards. Does anyone know what thses units are ? > >These sound like Intel SDK-85 evaluation kits. Do they, indeed, have >8085's on them? There was also an earlier 8080A version. Both were >bought by the truckloads by tech schools, universities, and colleges >for computer courses and data acquisition work. What are the date >codes on the chips? > >Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca) > >

28 years, 4 months

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CGA, part II

by defaultuser＠mail.mankato.msus.edu

Ooops - forgot an address: polaris(a)vax1.mankato.msus.edu Thanks again, Dave

28 years, 4 months

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Commodore PET finds.

by scott＠saskatoon.com

Well, after a long dry spell (partly self-induced) I came home this week with a few machines. I picked up 5 PET 4032's (one labelled 'No Good') a VIC-20, a 4022 printer, 5 datasettes, a 1571 disk drive (it rattles, i'm not hopeful), a box of VIC power adaptors (the 10vac ones) and RF modulators. I also got 4 'MSD Super Disk Drive' model SD-1. These look similar in design to the external TRS-80 drives (except they're cream coloured). They have two 6-pin DIN plugs and an IEEE-488(?) plug. Are these what I think they are? (Drives that will work on the VIC-20/C-64 and PETs) I don't have any 6pin cables to try these on a VIC. I haven't tried them on a PET yet, either. Any idea what format these would be? (2040, 8050?) Finally, I picked up a bit of PET software. I got five copies of VisiCalc. It turns out, however, that this software requires a ROM chip to be installed in the machine it is to be run on. (an early dongle?) No problem, five VisiCalcs, five PETs... they must have the ROMs in them, right?... wrong. Not-a. So... does anyone have a dump of the 'VisiCalc for PET' ROM that they could email to me so I can try out this classic piece of software? (and preserve it, of course.) Oh, for those who follow the prices... I got the lot for $75CAD (about $55USD) A little more than I wanted to pay, but it was a school board, so I guess it's a good cause. ttfn srw

28 years, 4 months

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Update on finds

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> I also found in the <> same box 12 Intel boards dated copyright 1976 with white keys, a red lED <> readout, a boxed area marked Bus Expansion Drivers filled with various <> chips, TTY interface boxed area, PROM area, Address Decoder area, and al <> kinds of things on these boards. Does anyone know what thses units are ? < <These sound like Intel SDK-85 evaluation kits. Do they, indeed, have <8085's on them? There was also an earlier 8080A version. Both were Intel did the SDK80 (8080), SDK85(8085), and SDK86(8086). I'd love to get a SDK85, for my SBC collection even a used one. Allison

28 years, 4 months

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Update on finds

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Well the last 3 weeks have been pretty slow and more people have started going to the thrift's that I shop. I'm still trying to work out a deal to save alot of classic's setting in a warehouse here in Minn. and will let everyone know when and if they come avaiable. I did find a few items such as several pairs of black paddles made by Apple for the II series I guess (they were free), a Mac SE/30 with HD problems for $5, Apple 2400 data modem with power supply for free, 2 PS/2-70 386 for $5 each one is load with memory and all the slots are full of cards, have pulled them yet to see what they are, and the other has no memory in it or extra cards, a Commodore 1571 drive for $5, Franklin Ace 1100 with Franklin video monitor both were free and I have tested them yet, Apple IIc power supply for free, AppleColor Composite for $5 and it works great, IBM 4019-E01 laser for 19.95 needs a little work, A NEC kB MMTKB-1001 for 2.95, and a 2600 cartridge called "Kool-Aid Man" for .25. I'm also still trying to get away to test the 10 Sym-1's that picked up a few weeks ago so that I can trade or sell them. I also found in the same box 12 Intel boards dated copyright 1976 with white keys, a red lED readout, a boxed area marked Bus Expansion Drivers filled with various chips, TTY interface boxed area, PROM area, Address Decoder area, and all kinds of things on these boards. Does anyone know what thses units are ? I plan to keep one and trade or sell the others if I can figure their value. Times like these are when I could use a digital camera and my own web site to show strange finds to everyone for help in figuring out what it is. Well a new week is starting and a four day weekend so I hope to shop alot. Keep computing and have a great Thanksgiving - John

28 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

TRS-80 Model I

by foxvideo＠wincom.net

On a TRS-80 Model I, no expansion unit, I am getting the left half of the screen filled with graphics and the right half with scrambled text. Does anyone have a suggestion of where I should start looking for the solution to this problem? Thanks Charlie Fox

28 years, 4 months

2
1
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Progress report

by foxvideo＠wincom.net

Early in the summer I got involved with a fellow who is attempting to start a science museum in Windsor, Ont. and undertook to work on the computer collection. Following Sam's suggestion I inserted a small ad in our local weekly shopping guide: "Old computers wanted, working or not, for museum collection." with my name and phone number. This has been in three times at about three week intervals, and so far has resulted in turning up over fifty computers. Apparently word is spreading, for I have had calls as much as two weeks after the ad ran. Also I feel having my name in it is important for it lets people know who they are dealing with. Also on two occasions folks who I knew years ago in other organizations have brought me their unwanted machines. How one answers the phone can be important. What seems to work best, when some one asks if I am the fellow collecting old computers, and what kind, or how old, is to ask "What do you have, and how much are you asking for it?" In a lot of cases they will say they don't want anything for it, they just want it out of the basement, and even an XT or an Apple clone might have a lot of useful parts. So far we have turned up lots of XT and Apple clones along with an assortment of TRS-80s, T.I.s Commodores, Ataris and Timex Sinclairs, but an Osborne and a DEC Rainbow have come along as well as the fragments of a Basic 4, a Philips Micom, and a Wang wordprocesser. Also about a dozen assorted calculators have made an appearence. While I keep dreaming of a PDP11, or a VAX, we have to realize that Windsor, (pop 200,000) is not as fertile a field as you folks have in the western states. Cheers Charlie Fox

28 years, 4 months

1
0
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Rubbery Bits Gone Gooey

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Thus far he has discovered a problem with tape drives in two <terminals. His description of the problem is that, when used, the <motor capstan in the tape drive "melts". In one case he has not <been able to get all the ex-capstan goo off of the belt capstan <in the cartridge; fortunately that was a blank tape. this is also common to DEC TU58 tape system (also a dc100 cart). The solution I've used to date is to first strip the goo off the alumninum ferrule that is on the drive. Then I found a peice of tygon(vinal) clear tubing that had the required ID for a tight fit. I cut a ring the width of the original(cut squarely and clean) and proceded to glue it on using superglue (cyanoacrylic). then I run it up on a spare motor and grind it using a emery board. The last step it insure roundness. I've done this for 6 tu58 drives and it seems to work fine. It's noisier as it's harder but seems to have enough friction to drive the tape well. The material is not the best possible choice (polyurethane might be better) but I had it handy and it's easy to find. Between uses I pull the tape to avoid dents that seem to cause no problems other then making the drive very noisy. It's been in use for about a year, so the tygon hardening >from age was a concern. However it works and it's easy enough to do again if needed. <And an observation: the HP 9815A desktop calculator I have sitting here <seems to use a similar drive (at least the capstan looks similar when I <peer in the slot), and I think the HP 85 does too. I'd guess. Allison

28 years, 4 months

2
1
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Progress!

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

OK, now the lights on the UDA strobe. The drive is not connected. Typing boot du0 gets me this >>>b du0 CONSOLE ?20 MPC=15 >>> is that normal?

28 years, 4 months

1
2
0 0

What's the audible alarm in a BA11 for?

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

I removed the backplanes to re-add them one at a time. Now the BA beeps at me. Whats the beep for?

28 years, 4 months

2
2
0 0

Here we go... multi-BA problems.

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

The CPU *REFUSES* to go to the run state when powered on. Both BAs come on, the DEC power bus is connected. I have the cable correct, it's not twisted... What did I do? Current config: +------+ +------+ | BA #1| | BA #2| | [1] ======= [2] | +------+ +------+ [1] CPU backplane only [2] DD11-CK with the UDA in it. The terminator is in BA #2

28 years, 4 months

2
2
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One from the 'believe it or not' file...

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

You know, I always hate these moral dilemmas... In the last few days the collection received an AT&T UNIX PC (aka 7300, 3b1) in extremely good condition. It arrived with all of the original docs, software, and mouse. The docs were unwrapped , and the mouse was in its original foam packing. "Kind of nice when someone packs things away properly" I thought. Well, its been a bit busy around the garage the last couple of weeks, so I put the unit and its associated stuff on the shelf and covered it up for a time. Last night, while I was working on a notebook (yes, one of those 'modern' things) for one of my wife's friends, I decided to have another look at the UNIX PC while I was waiting for a disk scan to finish... Found a spot for it on the bench, made a cursory check of the unit (nothing loose, nothing rattling...) and powered it up. It hummed and beeped happily and started drawing little boxes on the screen as I recalled it doing when it was starting up... However, about 3-4 minutes and 4-5 lines of little boxes later, it starts to dawn on me that it should not be taking quite this long to get a prompt of some kind. So, I move the keyboard to have a look at the floppy drive (it hides behind the keyboard you see) and sure enough the machine is looking for a floppy. Fine... so, I grab the binder containing the software distribution, open it up... All of the disks are still sealed! At this point it starts to dawn on me, that this machine has never been run! A comment flashes back to mind; made by the person who gave me the machine... "My father bought it for his company, read the manuals and realized that he had no idea what he was doing..." I find myself wondering... Back around 1985 when this thing was released (and about $10k+), who could have afforded to buy one of these things, open the manuals, decide that they were in over their heads, and just put it on the shelf without even loading the software??? EEK! And so, the dilemma... do I open the disks and crank this critter up? Or just pack it all away as another classic 'artifact'? (or leave it until I have a fair amount of time to spend with it) No flame wars please, just the random philosophical question... -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

28 years, 4 months

13
17
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The XT Dilema

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

I've tried replacing the controller, and used another 360K floppy. Now, the monitor stops working :( Does the XT just not LIKE me? Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 4 months

3
4
0 0

CLASSICCMP digest 241

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Could someone tell me what exactly "core memory" is? From mentions of Core memory. A system using metal or ferrite(magnetic) material to store data using magnetization. One core, one bit. The direction of magnetic field is key to determining the data stored. <Acoustic delay line? What is that? The principle is that sound(mechanical vibration) moves slower than elctrons. Data, bit are translated from voltages or current to using a transducer resulting mechanical vibration and transmitted through a medium to a like mercury or water to a like transducer where the vibrations are translated back to data. The best example is you see lightening immediately, but sound in air travels about 1100 feet per second. If you time from the flash to the sound you can calculate how far. In solids and liquids sound travels faster but still far slower than the speed of light. So if you put a vibration in to a medium large enough in length there is time before it comes out. So it's possible to put strings of bits in if the medium chosen is long enough as the first one is comming out the last one is in. If you circulate these(with amplification) you now have a memory that is serial in nature and can store information. The name comes from the fact that the first data in will have a finite time delay before it arrives at the other side. The longer the time the more data can transit the space and the greater the storage. There are mechanical and other considerations that limit things. Allison

28 years, 4 months

2
1
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10 years and change/use it or lose it

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 07:22 PM 11/19/97 +0000, you wrote: >Okay... I started all this stuff... and I'll end it... it *was* a mistake.... >but now, at least we know that until something BIG happens, the 10 yr. definition Or until somebody else new comes along. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 4 months

6
6
0 0

So far, so good... Will DD11-CK work in an 11/44?

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

OK. Now the 44 starts, and I can talk to ODT. I removed all the boards & backplanes except the CPU. There are 2 free preiph slots on the CPU, it's got 1.5M RAM. Now I have to add a second backplane for the DZs and the UDA50. So, I have a new DD11-CK. Will that go in a 44?

28 years, 4 months

1
1
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10 years and change/use it or lose it

by manney＠nwohio.com

> > > It would be even better if it > > > were easy to require that the subscriber afirm that the FAQ had been > > > read in return mail before the subscription actually started. > > > > It helps that there is a bit at the bottom of the welcome message > > pointing out that anyone who does not prove that they have read that far > > and reply will not have their subscription completed. (If this is > > actually enforced) > > Hmmm. Perhaps there should be a quiz during the subscription process > whereby you are asked 10 questions that you will only know the answer to > if you've read the FAQ. It seems to me that I'd rather put up with a few "dumb" questions -- something I get all the time, in my computer business) than alienate, or scare away new users by quizzing on the FAQ. People were patient and gentle with me when I was starting out, and freely shared their knowledge with me without censure. Let's give the new people a break -- encourage the reading of the FAQ, certainly, but be patient with silly mistakes.

28 years, 4 months

1
0
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PDP-11/44 is back in one general area!

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

I moved the parts back to Tek-star. Now to start reassembling the beast... It's now in 2 places at once: My house and here. A week ago, it was in 5 places at once: My house, here, SSI, my car, and Jeff's house. I'll bring the BAs in and I can get to work!

28 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

CLASSICCMP digest 241

by Zeus334＠aol.com

Could someone tell me what exactly "core memory" is? From mentions of ferrite, I am guessing it was some kind of magnetic thing, but what exactly? Acoustic delay line? What is that?

28 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Case designs (was: New Definiton REQUIRED)

by adam＠merlin.net.au

>Any other thoughts on case designs? I still think the Lisa was beautiful, >and I'll have to check out the 3b1. I have to agree about the Lisa - there is just something about her lines which really appeals to me. :) The Atari 400 is also a faviourite, as it has the weird science-fiction look. But the best (apart from the Lisa) would have to be the Mac 128 and Apple IIc - both are very much Steve Jobs' concept of what a computer should be, and although I don't agree with him they nevertheless have a fine design concept. If only I have a NextCube - that is one of the two computers I most want in the world (the other being a Sinclair ZX81). Adam.

28 years, 4 months

8
15
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Case designs (was: New Definiton REQUIRED)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:22 AM 11/17/97 -0600, you wrote: >> excellent PS/2 '87 era series that can be ripped apart with bare >> hands except for motherboard and PSU screws. > >FWIW, my absolute favorite box of all time is the VAXstation 4000/60 or /96; >you can get everything out of the box quickly with no tools. In contrast, >it's only been in the last few years that I've gotten coordinated enough to >keep from mutilating my knuckles every time I go into a VAXstation 2000... I dunno if it's my favorite, but I do like the Mac IIci (intro'd in '89 -- almost 10 years) beacuse it too comes apart with no tools (mostly.) My first computer, the Atari 600XL was great because the cartridge slot was in exactly the right position to use it as a handle. The one downside of the m100 is it had no handle, nor did it's little slipcover. (And the RS blue case was too expensive -- then; I've got one now.) Any other thoughts on case designs? I still think the Lisa was beautiful, and I'll have to check out the 3b1. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 4 months

3
2
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CLASSICCMP digest 241/core

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Take that 800 mA pulse, and multiply it by the length of all the wires <hooked to each drive line. What you end up with is a rather good radiator <of high-frequency hash! Many machines housed the entire core assembly, <including drivers, in a different box than the CPU for this reason. <PDP-8/E's and -8/F's, where the memory does sit in the CPU box, have a <special shielding card that segregates the memory from the rest of cards <to keep this hash out of the CPU circuitry. also to keep out of local TVs. Some of the core systems were boxed to keep a constant temperature as ferrites are temerature sensitive. Allison

28 years, 4 months

1
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0 0

core memory, long.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<800mA to switch! Ouch! No wonder the PSU was so bulky. Actually its 800ma per bit, the half select lines were some 400ma each plus sense inhibit signals. A large memory could easily be in the several tens of amps with all the surrounding logic. Typical power systems for code machines were very robust and heavy. <Truth. Trying to time right time to catch the bounce back and avoid <the read pulse that is there on the sense wire. Yeah, it's read in <serially fashion because that one wire is strung back and forth <through all cores just once. You have to fashion the circuit to <retore the orignal bits because the read process destroys the data. Sensing the read data is fairly easy as it will occur in a fixed point (all other things being constant) in time after the coincident select pulse. Coincident selection takes half the total current needed to switch the magnetic state of the core and divides it between two wires of the matrix where the two coincide is the selected core and the resulting magnetic field causes it to switch state. Writing is a matter of causing it to switch to the reverse state. ONE core in a larger array. Typical arrays are 16x16 or 64x64. A memory typically would contain many arrays organized as 4096 by 12 or 4096 by 16 or wider and possibly larger. One such machine the MIT/Lincoln TX2 had a main memory of 65536 38 bit words (2.5megabits). \ /---inhibit wire \|/ -----+----X SELECT wire /|\ / | \-----sense wire y --SELECTwire This is a single bit of a core plane, the + could be a doughnut of ferrite that can be magnetized in either direction depending on direction of current. The sense wire as that is a serpentine single wire that goes through each core. It's routing is such that for half the plane its sense is reverse to suppress induced noise from the select wires. Some planes use a forth wire threaded in the same way as an inhibit. Inhibit is so a one or zero representation can be forced. So we can select a core and read it's results and the selection process is in effect and erasure meaning we have to put back data. Reading is done by selecting a core using the X and Y select lines with thenough current to make the core magnetic filed to change if it was previosly different. This change or lack there of induces a current in the sense wire that we can detect. If there is no change in the magnetic field there will be a small pulse if there is a change in the field there will be a bigger pulse. Comparators are used to compare that pulse to a known reference and if big enough sends a pulse on to a latch (flipflop) to save that. Writing is like reading we select a core with the currents reversed to force the magnetization the other way, if we do not want to write we also force current through the inhibit wire so that it counters the magnetic field of the selection and inhibits the reversal. Before more detail is given it's sufficient to say that a core memory system is actually a goodly portion of the then current computers timing and cost. I have only glossed over the reson core works and the logic to do so is fairly involved as it requires sequential activities to occur precisely every time and at the correct time. Yes, core is destructive read out and the data read out must be stored written back. Most CPUs of the time would do a read/modify/write to take advantage of that. Living exampes of that include PDP-1 through PDP-11, TI990 and I believe NOVA. There is a whole class of logic that uses cores to propagate logic pulses and even perform logical operations on combinations of pulses. Cores have inherant memory from teh magnetization. There was a few computers built to exploit that and had few active devices(transistors or tubes). They are faster than relays but slower than tube or later transistor cicuits. Allison

28 years, 4 months

1
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More boards today! VAX 780 and more...

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

A whole lot, and all of it for $20! Any info on these appreciated. So, how close am I to building a 780? :) PDP-8 M8320 BUS LOADS M8315 KK8-A OMNIBUS CPU, 8/E INSTRUCTION SET M8317 OPTION BOARD #2, MEM EXT & TIMESHARE, BOOTSTRAP, PWR FAIL START SOME UNNUMBVERED VAX NETWORK BOARD, INTERFACED TO A APOLLO. M7769 KFQSA. (A SCSI adpater?) UNKNOWN: M8013 RLV11 DISK CONTROL X2 M8014 RLV11 BUS CONTROL EMULEX SC03 EMULEX TC12 X2 EMULEX CS02 DLV11-J (I know what THIS is!) M7138 QBUS TO LASER PRINTER DMA INTERFACE MODULE VAX 780: X3 M8210 32K X 72BIT MOS RAM [MS780] M8212 MS780-A MDT MEMORY DATA M8218 KA780, SBI LOW BITS INTERFACE M8226-C KA780, DEP, CPU DATA PATH E M8227 KA780, CPU DATA PATH D M8228 KA780, CPU DATA PATH C M8229 KA780, CPU DATA PATH A m8230 KA780, CEH CONDITION CODES, EXCPETIONS, HI BITS M8231 KA780, ICL, INTERRUPT CONTROL, LOW BITS M8232 KA780, CLK, CPU CLOCK M8233 KU780, WCS, WRITABLE CONTROL STORE M8234 KA780-A, PCS, PROM CONTROL STORE M8236 KA780, CIB, CPU CONSOLE INTERFACE M8238 KU780-A, 2K WCS X2 M8270 DW780-A USI, UNIBUS ADAPTER SBI INTERFACE X2 M8271 DW780-A, UNIBUS ADAPTER CONTROL M8272 DW780-A UNIBUS ADAPTER MAP & DATA PATH X2 M8273 DW780-A, UNIBUS ADAPTER ADDR m9040 11780, TRM SBI TERMINATOR VAX ??? L0007 11/750 MBA MASSBUS ADAPTER X8 L0200 4MB MOS ARRAY [MS86] X3 L0222 (MTM) MEM ARRAY TERMINAL BOARD [KA86] L0224 SBI/A-BUS TERMINATOR [KA86] X2 L0104 SBI INTERFACE FOR CI PORT L0100 CI LINK INTERFACE L0101 IPB (CI CONTROL STORE + PKT BUFF) L0201 CONSOLE CONTROL KA86] L0204 MBOX DATA PATH [KA86] L0206 IBOX DATA PATH [KA86] X2 L0207 IBOX CONTROL A [KA86] L0208 IBOX INST BUFF [KA86] L0212 SBIA SBI INTERFACE [KA86] X2 L0214 IBOX CONTROL B [KA86] L0215 CSA CONTROL STORE ARRAY [KA86] L9200 MEM LOAD FOR 8600 Whew!

28 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

CLASSICCMP digest 241

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Are there any obvious choices of better cores for a simple homemade <core plane? I might try playing with steel 0-80 (and smaller) nuts Permalloy was a common one and the size was generally 50 mils or smaller. TX2 used this with 80mil od and 50 mil ID, it switch time was 1uS and required 800ma to switch and yeilded 100mv if it switched. There was no data given if it didn't switch but I'd bet 20mv would be believable. Cycle time for a memory with cores like that would be 3-5us. The TX2 ran them at 5uS. Other materials can be used but a good sharp B-H curve is desired and saturable ferrites were used for the smaller 30-40 mil cores. Saturable ferrites are used in power conversion in current designs so they exist. There is a relationship between core size, material and speed. <this weekend, but I doubt they'll be particularly good - probably it'll <take a rather sizable current*turns product to magnetize these. Turns are 1, and the current from some of the older stuff was around 400-800ma and the smaller later stuff in the 100-200ma region. <Assuming I do find a readily available material that works, would others <be interested in a write-up about building your own core memory plane? <I'm envisioning circuitry to allow one to toggle in bits to various <locations and read them out again. The logic driving it is likely <to be simple TTL (maybe some 74LS138's or 74154's for X-Y decoders) <plus some analog electronics for the drivers and sense/inhibit <circuitry. If I'm clever enough, it'll be be doable with readily <available (i.e. Radio Shack) parts. This would be interesting. Additionally if it could be applied to some of the core planes out there with ??? characteristics and origins it may help. there was an article written back in the late 70s in BYTE on using CC core memories. FYI the TX2 used 64x64(4kbit) core planes for main memory to make a larger 256x256x38 bit memory. The fast memory(registers) were 64x19bits using two cores per bit (bigger signal less noise). the array was 8x8 using 128 cores. A small 8x8 or 16x16 array would be trivial to wire and drive. It's the timing for the read pulse and keeing noise out of things that is twitchy. Allison

28 years, 4 months

4
9
0 0

CLASSICCMP digest 241

by prp＠hf.intel.com

> From: Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk > Subject: Re[2]: Talk Of Building A Computer... (Don't react until you read this first part through:) You can of course never build a real classic computer, by definition its not a real classic unless its really old and was built by people who were, at the time, working with state of the art components and techniques. Part of the attraction of the old machines is that they subtly document the skills, preconceptions and ignorance of their designers and the prevailing conventional wisdom. Another part of the attraction is to have a piece of equipment that has been in existence for so long and still works. So the best you could ever do is come close. Any attempt will be a compromise of some sort, so an interesting question is how close is close enough? The closest I think is to attempt to exactly recreate a particular early machine. Chris Burton is doing this with the Manchester SSEM and Tony Sale with the Colossus, both with significant help from other folks in the Computer Conservation Society. I've seen them in progress, they are both fabulously, meticulously accurate (as far as I can tell) and very nearly as much fun as if the original machines still existed. And despite all the help they are largely one-man projects, or could have been, which shows that its actually possible to consider doing it "right" by yourself if you have the time. Sort of like building a boat or an airplane. People can do that. All this having been said, I'm sure you feel as I do that it would be fun to build a machine in the classic style but an exact recreation is too much. So how authentic do you have to be? My point is this - *** Its up to you ***. Since any such project is necessarily a compromise, the exact tradeoffs are not really important. Your project should reflect what you want from it, other people's opinion doesn't matter unless its a group effort. Here are a some projects I personnally find interesting: 1. A small Williams-tube memory. Designed and built from scratch using 6SN7's and a common 5" oscilloscope CRT like maybe a 5GP1. (Chris has beaten me to this but it doesn't matter - for that matter, Williams beat us both; the fun part is doing it yourself.) 2. A complete 32-bit CPU and memory in the classic style, an accumulator machine, built in just 4 parts: a FPGA, DRAM, EPROM and clock. This is easily possible with existing technology. It would also have a 2.5" IDE disk drive for mass storage and a small printer and keyboard for user I/O. It would be fun to do and would demonstrate the incredible miniaturization of electronics when compared with my room sized IBM 7094. 3. Emulators for all my old machines, and machines I wish I had. This is the only project I've actually made any progress on. So do what you find most compelling. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Here are some thoughts on the current proposal (building a machine in the classic style of a tube machine but with discrete transistors to be more practical), some of these reinforce comments others have already made: Your main problem is not the logic, it is the memory. There is no old memory that is anywhere near as easy to use as, say, SRAM. Your major choices are core, magnetic drum/disk, or delay line. Core is going to be a lot of work. Drum or disk will require expertise in mechanical fabrication but is pretty attractive otherwise. Acoustic delay line (the only kind with reasonable capacity) may be best but will require some research and experimentation. I would recommend magnetostrictive wire acoustic delay line memory if you can figure out how to build it and don't mind having a very small memory. About the logic, while very early tube circuits were strange using multiple grids, in most tube computer circuits the actual logic was done with diodes. The tubes then invert and drive the next stage. Flip-flops were used for temporary state storage and sometimes for registers. A very common computer tube in the US was the 5965 dual triode. To see some IBM 705 circuit drawings (all but the inverter, which apparently wasn't used much in this machine but was used in others such as the 709) look at http://www.teleport.com/~prp/collect/705dwg/ The diode/tube logic translates very nicely into common early transistor circuits such as RTL, RCTL and DTL. For a project like this I would recommend building a serial accumulator machine, one which works on one bit at a time and has a single architecturally visible register, like the PDP-8. It will have much less logic than a parallel or multiple register machine and will be very classic. A serial CPU will be a good match with serial memory such as drum or delay line memory. A good, pretty clean example is the Royal McBee LGP-30. Better is the SWAC which had a very good clean minimal architecture but was parallel, a serial version would be pretty easy. Note that small tube machines like the LGP-30 and Bendix G-15 have only around 300 tubes. To get an idea of how big it would be, the Packard Bell PB250 (see http://www.teleport.com/~prp/collect/mini.html ) is just what I've been talking about - serial, transistors (RCTL) and delay line memory. It takes up half a 19" rack, same as a PDP-8 but I think the logic is physically less dense. About a quarter of the volume is taken up by the memory. Paul

28 years, 4 months

3
3
0 0

Mac286

by cmao＠eos.ncsu.edu

I recently got a AST Mac286 NuBus board but no SW. Can you share your SW with me, if you have one. Thanks,chimin

28 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

HORRAY!!! (And a little boo...)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 05:56 AM 11/21/97 +0000, you wrote: >Okay.... possibly keyboard, but probably HDD. I tried my current keyboard... >it's a Windows 95, and I still got that error. Try <http://www.searchlight.com/$WEBMSG.Read.SLBBS-R.3631.read> -- it's a listing of the various POST (Power-On Self Test) error codes. (Or, do a search at AltaVista (<http://altavista.digital.com/>) on <"power on self test" and error> (with quotes, no <>'s.)) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

10 years and change/use it or lose it

by COAKLEY＠AC.GRIN.EDU

> > You mean, there's still another educational institution that uses VAX > > Notes as a major means of mass communication? > > > > What's your mailer? > > One thing, Notes is kind of internal "newsgroups" that you can > subscribe while as authorized users logged on there. I know all about it. I'm required to use it daily, both for work and for class. I was just surprised to hear of a fellow Notes-user. > The vax email > program that you write and reply to is PMDF and has POP3 server as > well. We have no POP server here (or we do, but we have no dialup PPP service, so it's useless unless you're connected to the network). We use Dreams as an interface to PMDF, which has its nice features. > Also it has newsgroups reader on there but it's too clumsy and > hard to use. SLRN can be compiled under VMS (at least, 0.9.0.0 could be). I find it a lot easier to use than NEWSRDR. -- Ben Coakley http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley coakley(a)ac.grin.edu Station Manager, KDIC 88.5 FM CBEL: Xavier OH It is good to rock. It is very good to rock wearing a big ass pumpkin on your head. It is very, very good if that pumpkin is on fire. --Jessica Stern

28 years, 4 months

2
1
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10 years and change/use it or lose it

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> > You mean, there's still another educational institution that uses VAX <> > Notes as a major means of mass communication? <I know all about it. I'm required to use it daily, both for work and for <class. I was just surprised to hear of a fellow Notes-user. < <> The vax email I have VAXnotes up and running on my collection of vaxen here. Trying to workup CMUip slip or slirp. What I like about Vaxnotes was you coul have public conferences or private authorized people only conferences. Allison

28 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

TRS 80 with Green Screen

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Thus wrote: <Robert M. (Bob) Donan E-mail: donan(a)utk.edu <The Tandy TRS80 Model III, as delivered, did not come with a green <screen. Either the machine has been upgraded (requiring a different <video board) or it is not a Model III. I may be able to help you either <way as I have been repairing Radio Shack computers since 1979. You <could help me answer your questions by answering the following <questions: There were at the time several companies offering replacement CRTs to go >from white to Green or amber. they were same tube different phosphor with no other alterations required. H19s and a few other terminals/systems were modified that was as well. Robert, Did you work for tandy? I was up in PA when the TRS80 hit. Allison

28 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Well, the 34a is back among the living...

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

IT runs again, boots RT-11. The decision to stop screwing with it came when I realized I didn't have any 18b RAM boards, and RSTS won't run in 64KW of core. (128KB). So, I'll have to get something lighter for it to run if it's to be timesharing. Or get RAM. I may do that today. All the RAM I have is 22b boards from the '44. My next project will be to get that running, then maybe the VAX 750.

28 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

HORRAY!!! (And a little boo...)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

I just got my XT working!!! (My first classic) Well... not really working... I get a "601 Error", and then it says "Press F1 To Resume" I remember a similiar error w/my current computer... I replaced the keyboard when all was done. Just for a little interesting bit, the manufacturer of the chip (I forget the term) on the keyboard is Zilog.... same neon light style logo as way back when. Well anyway, I would like to thank Max, who sent me the processor that got it working, (Sorry, tried to e-mail him, and got an error) and I would like to know if anyone can help w/ the 601 error. Thanks, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 4 months

3
4
0 0

TRS 80 with Green Screen

by donan＠utk.edu

The Tandy TRS80 Model III, as delivered, did not come with a green screen. Either the machine has been upgraded (requiring a different video board) or it is not a Model III. I may be able to help you either way as I have been repairing Radio Shack computers since 1979. You could help me answer your questions by answering the following questions: 1. Does the computer have a silver or cream coloured cabinet? If the cabinet is silver in coulur, it is a Model III cabinet and the innards may have been renewed. As the Model III and Model IV (non-gate array) use the same footprint for their internal circuit boards and drive towers, they are easily interchanged. 2. If the cabinet is cream couloured it is most likely a Model IV gate-array. Robert M. (Bob) Donan E-mail: donan(a)utk.edu Graduate Teaching Associate Department of Human Resource Development The University of Tennessee 310 Jessie Harris Knoxville, TN 37996-1900 (423) 974-2574 Department. (423) 579-2808 Residence

28 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Lost Email, New address

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

Well, I managed to trash my e-mail and lose everything in my inbox. (1000+ messages) So, if anyone wrote to me recently, please resend it. Sorry! Further, I am getting rid of my CRL account, so if you have my e-mail address as <sinasohn(a)crl.com>, please change it to either <sinasohn(a)ricochet.net> or <roger(a)sinasohn.com>. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 4 months

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Wrong Way:New Definition REQUIRED

by carl.friend＠stoneweb.com

On Wed, 19 Nov 1997 06:42:28 GMT, Bill Richman inquired: > [...] And does anyone have an Intecolor in their collection? Yep. I've got an ISC 8001 with 24 kB of user memory, 48-line option, dual 5 1/4" floppy drives, and ROM BASIC. It's a nice box. ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | |________________________________________________|_____________________|

28 years, 4 months

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Dilog CQ2010, what is it?

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

I have an interestin quad-height board labelled Dilog CQ2010. It has a 50-pin plug (Like a SCSI plug), and a few DIP switch blocks. What is it? Anyone know?

28 years, 4 months

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Talk Of Building A Computer...

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Kevin McQuiggin wrote: > Hi Tim: > > If you're going to try this, I'd suggest starting with something simple > like an adder or a flip flop, or a register. You'd get an idea of what > would be involved with a simple processor. But I think it would end up > being pretty expensive. [...] Tim Hotze had written: >Hello... some time ago, there was talk of building a computer, and now I >think that I've got a (bad, possibly) idea. In the earlier half of this >century, transistors weren't avaible... vaccum tubes... huge ones, but >now, the transistor has made small ones possible. My point: If we were >to take a tubed design, and re-build it with transistors, we could >probably make it a decent size. > So, what da ya think? I think there is something even more fundamental here. Valves (thermionic, in tubes) have quite different behaviour to trannies. A JFET behaves fairly like a triode, but designs that use pentodes and nonodes and things as multi-input gates are going to be very difficult to translate. Of course by the 1960s there were somve very nice valves around that weren't available to the 1940s computer pioneers - the 7586 nuvistor springs to mind: a very nice triode in a metal can about 1 inch tall including pins, and less than half an inch in diameter. Can't remember the spec, though. Such devices could make a valve machine quite a bit smaller than Colossus, Eniac, Edsac, etc. Or if you want to be way out, what about tubes with several valves in? Things like double diode triodes are quite common, and someone even put most of a radio set into one tube (passive components and all). So how about making our own. A tube containing, say, a 4-bit D-type latch? Make a few in that range and a valve computer becomes almost manageable! Besides, the smaller it is, the faster you can make it... Philip.

28 years, 4 months

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Talk Of Building A Computer...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<The main memory of the DEUCE was built form mercury delay lines of 1024 <bits, and the 1024 bit shift register chip had just become available. <The connection was obvious and we spent hours discussing the rebuilding <a TTL version of DEUCE, for which he still had the logic diagrams. Alas <the project was never completed but I have dreams of doing it one day. With current parts the Turing machine could almost be practical/useful as it would be easy to provide enough memory to simulate a very long tape and enough speed to transverse it quickly. It's been a long time since I've looked at that machine. <Take the idea even further : the technology exists today to build most <if not all first generations machines on a single chip. Indeed I wonder <if an FPGA might not be able to be reconfigurable to build many of these In most cases yes. Some are quite simple when reduced a logical description. The PDP-8 has seen this treatment many times using the 6100. 6120 and even gate-arrays. Allison

28 years, 4 months

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HORRAY!!! (And a little boo...)

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

601 post error is a floppy drive and/or controller error. time to check your cabling and swap out parts if you have them. david

28 years, 4 months

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Talk Of Building A Computer...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

From: HOTZE <photze(a)batelco.com.bh> <Hello... some time ago, there was talk of building a computer, and now I <think that I've got a (bad, possibly) idea. In the earlier half of this Not a bad idea but, it appears you have no technical concept of the extent of it. <century, transistors weren't avaible... vaccum tubes... huge ones, but <now, the transistor has made small ones possible. My point: If we were <to take a tubed design, and re-build it with transistors, we could <probably make it a decent size. < So, what da ya think? The operating characteristics of tube and transistors are far enough apart that circuit techniques applied to one donot apply well to the other. The redesign would not be tivial For most of the tube designs drum memory and mercury filled acoustic delay lines were memory. a few used williams tubes. You would find that difficult to duplicate. To further make a point most of the early transistor designs were evlotionary results of tube designs. One of the first transistor designs was TX1 and TX2(early 50s, MIT/lincoln labs) and theywere not small. Later ones in the 60s were PDP-1, Perkin Elmer, CDC, to name a few and these were large as large machines(fast, big) were the goal. The first small machines were the LINC and PDP-8. Figure 5-10 thousand transistors and thousands of diodes, resistors, capacitors. A foot print for a typical transistor -8 is aroung 20 square feet plus access space. The closest you could come and expect to complete on a singular basis would be a to copy the archectecture of an older machine using ICs. It wouldn't be the real thing, original peripherals would be hard to come by and there may be a base of software if you elect to copy something like a PDP-8. I'd do it as an engineering exercise and beacuse I happen to like certain old archetectures. The result would not be a classic by any means. Allison

28 years, 4 months

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Talk Of Building A Computer...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

From: Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk <So how about making our own. A tube containing, say, a 4-bit D-type <latch? Make a few in that range and a valve computer becomes almost <manageable! Besides, the smaller it is, the faster you can make it... A four bit latch using valves would require not less than 8 triodes plus buffers. Very hard to do in one envelope... Also tubes had some characteristics that made it very hard to design fast enough logic that distance(size) was a factor. I have a few 7586 and 6ds4/6cw4 nuvistors and they are 0.8" tall and 0.45 dia and make really good rf amplifiers but slow switches. Allison

28 years, 4 months

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Talk Of Building A Computer...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<If you're going to try this, I'd suggest starting with something simple <like an adder or a flip flop, or a register. You'd get an idea of what <would be involved with a simple processor. But I think it would end up <being pretty expensive. I have some partial designs for transistor hardware. A flipflop design used for the TX2 required 10 transistors, 22 resistors, 8 capacitors, two inductors and three operating voltages. A register 8 bits wide would require 8 of these plus gating logic possibly doubling the number of components needed. You can now see why early machines were register sparse. FYI I have an article for a TIC-TAC-TOE computer using tubes and Neon lamps and it required some nine 2d21 thyratron tubes and 190 neon lamps(serve as gate logic mostly and two per box for display). This is a very limited fixed logic machine and it required a lot. Allison

28 years, 4 months

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KAYPRO 10 MANUALS NEEDED

by bernier＠mail.co.leon.fl.us

HI, I'VE GOT A KAYPRO 10 AND IT'S BEEN A MILD CHALLENGE TO ENDEVOR TO OPERATE.IF YOU COULD PART WITH THE OPERATING MANUALS I'D BE BLESSED.THANKS BERNIE

28 years, 4 months

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What's MUD mean? (PDP-11 related, not MUD... You know what I , mean!)

by dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net

There's a few slots up by the CPU labled MUD. I think I know what it means. But I want to make sure. Does it mean Modified Unibus Device? And does that mean DMA slot? And does that mean all the screwing with the backplane I did was unneccesary?

28 years, 4 months

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Nifty HEATHKIT equipment available

by dhouse＠abac.com

HEATH Computer Enthusiasts: In September I picked up a Western Union Telegraph Company Model 102 Teleprinter for our museum. It and a complete Heathkit Computer system were the belongings of Charlie Eheman,K6ESN "K6 Every Saturday Night" of San Diego. Charlie was a WWII Navy Chief Radioman; he passed away on August 20, 1997. His brother, Ed Eheman of Texas was in San Diego cleaning out Charlies house. I am looking for someone to actually put the Heathkit system to GOOD use; in its day it was the "cat's meow." It is all in good shape with EXTENSIVE documentation. H9 Video display terminal H10 Paper tape reader and perforator H11 Digital computer (a DEC PDP11) H14 Dot matrix printer H19 Video display terminal H27 Dual 8" Floppy Drive Complete with cables and all manuals, builders notes, including the programming courses, paper tape, 8" floppy disks, etc. Don Robert House, N.S.E. NO JOB IS SO IMPORTANT NADCOMM AND NO SERVICE IS SO URGENT- 3841 Reche Road THAT WE CANNOT TAKE TIME Fallbrook, CA 92028-3810 TO PERFORM OUR WORK SAFELY. e-mail: dhouse(a)abac.com BELL SYSTEM http://www.hem.com/nadcomm 760-723-9959 Telephone 760-781-5161 Facsimile

28 years, 4 months

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AST six pak plus

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

ok, now that everyone's finished hashing out the 10 year rule... I was going through some of my old junk and discovered the above mentioned card. I need the utilities disk; i think it was called superpak or something like that which had the clock driver, print spooler, and ramdisk setup. I also have a copy of the super pak utilies disk user's guide if anyone wants it. it's the first edition, as i am keeping the second edition that i also got. david

28 years, 4 months

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Old stuff found

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

I would like a list of the items jrkeys(a)concentric.net At 08:45 AM 11/19/97 +0000, you wrote: >Found on comp.sys.tandy > > Greetings: > > I have acquired a pile of boxes from an estate sale. Numerous old > computer pieces-parts that I thought might be of some value, but I > don't know where to 'advertise' them -- and now they must go. > > Included are > computers - TI & Radio Shack, some in perfect condition -- one is > in a heavy steel case, RS keybd, could be home brew from misc > parts but I can't tell, could it possibly be a stock TRS 80? > software - cartridges & 5 1/4 floppies > printers - are ribbons & print heads still available? > ref books - old, specialized, probably junk > monitors - USI, PI2, mono, unfamiliar connectors > {also 2 non-computer antiques: 1) an old Associated Press > linotype machine, with ribbons, very heavy. 2) 3M copier.} > chips - small, many, stored in plastic tubes > LNW Research products - look like large keybds but may be > more than that -- one box is different as follows > > You should see this manual, it is beautiful. Yes, Virginia, there is > such a thing as an Antique Computer. Wish it had a date in it; ref is > made to a CA sales tax of 6%. "System Expansion for the TRS-80 [pc > board & user manual] w/ serial RS232C / 20mA I/O > floppy controller > 32K bytes memory" (awesome) > etc.... > Found a date. Guess! Answer to follow at signature. > > So please, somebody, send me a clue, what can I do. > Anyone know an address where I can list these? Are old puters > so plentiful as to not have any value as collector's items? > > Thanks much. > > ---mikey > > DON'T PEEK THE1ANSWER9IS8DON'T1PEEK > > > >Found on comp.sys.ti > >I have a couple TI99/4As, an expansion box with a disk drive and other >stuff (very heavy), another disk drive, and some carts that a coworker >was going to throw away. I live in Gilroy, CA and work in San Jose, >CA. Anyone interested? > >Bostone1 > >Bostone1(a)aol.com > >

28 years, 4 months

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New Definiton/ Vaporware lives still!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Speaking of Alpha's, is there any chance that I can put my own together? A <agree... it's just plain stupid, and I hate Intel anyway... kind of like in Sure, you can buy them used for prices that aren't all that expensive compared to late model 486 or early p5s. The older ones are now some 4-5 years old. The OS for it will cost you. You have three choices that I know of, OpenVMS (my favorite), Digital Unix, or NT. I don't know that anyone has done a UNIX port outside of digital. Allison

28 years, 4 months

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IBM s/36

by henrio＠edu.tsai.es

Hi all! I?m afraid this computer is off-topic (dated 1988). Sorry. An IBM 5363-I has recently been given to me, but I don?t know anything at all about its internal architecture or capabilities. I only own the Central Unit; no cables, no floppies, no tapes, no manuals, no terminals. * It has two 15-pin sub-d connectors in one expansion card. They seem to be for attaching two serial terminals (syncronous? type 5250?) * In another expansion board it has a 9-pin sub-d connector. * There are too four twin-axial connectors. Can anybody help me on this subject? Thanks in advance. -- Sergio Izquierdo Garcia mailto:henrio@edu.tsai.es

28 years, 4 months

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Old stuff found

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:45 AM 11/19/97 +0000, you wrote: >Found on comp.sys.ti > >I have a couple TI99/4As, an expansion box with a disk drive and other >stuff (very heavy), another disk drive, and some carts that a coworker >was going to throw away. I live in Gilroy, CA and work in San Jose, >CA. Anyone interested? If only I had some way to get to the south bay on a weekday (or time on a weekend)... Oh well, surely someone will save this...? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 4 months

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Case designs (was: New Definiton REQUIRED)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 11:40 AM 11/19/97 -0600, you wrote: >> >Heck, if I was in somebody else's house I'd probably have my trusty >> >Leatherman with me. > ^^^^^^^^^^ >Well, I know it's a LART of some kind... What's a leatherman exactly? One of the Village People... 8^) Sorry -- couldn't resist. (Saw them in concert a year or so ago.) Anyway, a Leatherman is a multi-tool -- pliers with various blades, saws, screwdrivers, etc that fold into the handle. Whole thing folds up into an innocuos little rectangle. Kind of a modern-day swiss-army knife. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 4 months

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10 years and change/use it or lose it

by COAKLEY＠AC.GRIN.EDU

> It's going as long as we have newbies comes in, even happens on other > newsgroups and in our notes on vax at my college. Sheesh! You mean, there's still another educational institution that uses VAX Notes as a major means of mass communication? What's your mailer? -- Ben Coakley http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley coakley(a)ac.grin.edu Station Manager, KDIC 88.5 FM CBEL: Xavier OH It is good to rock. It is very good to rock wearing a big ass pumpkin on your head. It is very, very good if that pumpkin is on fire. --Jessica Stern

28 years, 4 months

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web page down?

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Did something unexpected happen to the web page? I haven't been able to get it in several days now. It used to be here: http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp/index.html Cheers, Bill.

28 years, 4 months

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New Definiton REQUIRED

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

I'm quite happy with the ten-year-plus-flexibility definition, as described by Bill Whitson. Remember the sign-on message from when you first subscribed? (Maybe it changes from time to time? I'll include the one I got at the end of this.) He specifically states that the main intent of the ten-year limit is to avoid "discussion of technical problems with the standard PCs and Macs, other than the really old stuff". Perfect. No WinDoze d00dz begging for warez, but talk about fixing up the older critters is explicitly 100% in-bounds. By the "not-heavy-handed" clause, talk about the unusual not-yet-ten-year-old machine is okay too. Unless you are insisting on discussing current PCs and Macs, or want to be more restrictive, there is nothing that needs adjusting. (I personally wouldn't mind ruling out all PC/Mac talk, but that's just me, and I wouldn't actively push for that.) Can we please drop this now? Bill. ] NAQ (Never Asked Questions) 0.1 ] ] What is it? ] ] This list is for the discussion of Classic Computers - ] primarily for those people who collect and restore ] old machines. It is brand new - no subscribers yet ] so sign up. The collection and restoration of computers ] is becoming a big enough hobby that I felt a need for ] a place to talk about it. ] ] What is a classic computer? ] ] Well that's hard to say but since I created the list I'll ] do it anyway. A classic computer is a machine that has not ] been produced for 10 years or more. It's an arbitrary ] definition but at least uncomplicated. ] ] What are the guidelines? ] ] The list is designed for discussion of collecting, restoring, ] and maintaining old computers. I'm not going to be heavy ] handed with restricting discussion. I'd just like it to be ] clear that the list is not the proper place for discussion ] of technical problems with the standard PCs and Macs (other ] than the really old stuff). Anyone can lurk - if you're ] going to post, just use your own good judgement. ] ] This IS NOT and will NEVER BE a list for discussion of "which ] computer is best?" and anyone who posts the ubiquitous "why ] don't you just go buy a PC you moron" will be immediately ] unsubbed. ] ] Beyond this - have fun! That what keeps us going with these ] old machines.

28 years, 4 months

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Dilemma

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Are there any archaeologists in the house? Not being one myself, I wouldn't be too surprised if some archaeological treasures had been lost forever in the process of some enthusiastic 18th-century archaeologist applying 18th-century state-of-the-art technology to the study of some artifact. Maybe some singular fossil got dissolved in acid in an attempt to determine its chemical composition, where we could now pop the thing under an electron microscope and learn about its cell-structure. (Of course, maybe our electron microscope would do some damage that would prevent later generations from bringing that thing back to life! Who knows?) Had that guy just left the thing alone a couple centuries ago, we might now be able to extract much more knowledge from it. And/or, if we leave it alone now, it might be much more valuable after a couple more centuries. So, which will be more valuable a couple centuries down the road, another set of used floppies plus easily-readable copies of the software that was on them, or decayed but pristine floppies? I think I know which will be rarer. And maybe, just maybe they'll be able to read them even after the oxide coating has become so much dust. (Anyone care to speculate on the technology to do that?) I have the impression that museums generally collect things with the goal of having them available as needed to extract knowledge >from them; scientists often take samples, even destructively when the utility is great. Are we in this group yet? Is there really any knowledge to be gained from these, that is otherwise unavailable? If we are pretending to be museums, should we have the same goals? Personally, I am not a museum; there are only a handful of systems I am interested in, and I want to keep them running, and even make new hardware/software for them. But I might think twice about that if I got a never-used never-even-opened system dropped in my lap. Maybe I'd contact a real museum. Enough talk. Back to hacking. Cheers, Bill.

28 years, 4 months

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Subscribe

by richa＠insync.net

Subscribe Richmond Armstrong

28 years, 4 months

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Case designs (was: New Definiton REQUIRED)

by engine＠chac.org

At 12:41 11/19/97 +0000, ARD wrote: >> where I'm at someone's house for dinner, and they say "Oh, BTW, my >> computer's not working," and I didn't bring a screwdriver and they don't >> own a #2 Phillips. > >And just what are you going to do when you've pulled the cover? Unless >it's just a board/cable that needs reseating you're going to need some >test equipment, a soldering iron, etc., anyway. I have _never_ been anywhere >with that sort of equipment and not had a screwdriver with me. > >Heck, if I was in somebody else's house I'd probably have my trusty >Leatherman with me. Certainly I take your point, but the context here is one of unrivaled banality. Your "just a board/cable that needs reseating" covers about 90% of the "emergencies" of this type that come anywhere near me. Both 5.25 floppies and MFM hard disks have connectors that loosen spontaneously. IDE "controllers" pop out of their sockets, for some reason. And there was always the lady who thought her computer "didn't work" because the connector to the hard disk LED had popped off -- even though that was all that was wrong. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 4 months

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Wrong Way:New Definiton REQUIRED

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:50 AM 11/19/97 GMT, you wrote: >successful. I agree with Jeff in that the thing that makes most of >the systems "special" to me is the fact that not everybody could just >go down to the local Best Buy/Circuit City/Sears store, buy one, plug >it in, and use it. It took some determination, some ingenuity, and a I bought my Atari 600XL from Sears, and I would have to say that not everybody at the time could have put that to use. btw, the HP3000 has been produced for, what, 20+ years continuously, and some of the various models are extremely collectible. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 4 months

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Case designs (was: New Definiton REQUIRED)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:50 PM 11/17/97 -0800, you wrote: >Personally I think some of the cooliest designs are the 68k based Atari's. >The perfect example is my Atari TT030. Couple the case design with TOS, I had forgotten about the TT... Definitely cool. Don't have one, though. Didn't they open up pretty easily? >the ROM based windowed OS, and you've got a cool design. The only down >sides are TOS's single task nature, and the mouse again. But multi-tasking is available as an add-on. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 4 months

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Intro msg: Teraks, emulators, reviving cassette data

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 03:51 PM 11/18/97 -0600, you wrote: [much interesting introduction snipped] >In another area of the JCM, I've begun to collect ancient ASCII art >from the 60s and 70s: Einstein, Spock, Snoopy, etc. I've written a >more, and I'd like to record personal anecdotes about the creation >of these old artworks. I'd also like to get an actual print sample Hi! An anecdote for you... When I was in high school, one of our little gang of computer hoodlums managed to come up with an ascii printout of a naked woman. During lunch, we hung it up behind the pull-down projector screen. When classes resumed, we were (naturally) giggling like mad about how witty and clever we were to have not only obtained this delectable bit of naughtiness, but also at outsmarting the teacher. Well, he (the teacher) figured out something was up, and inquired about it. Somehow he learned of our devilry and went over to check it out. Well, rather than tearing it down and punishing us, dirty old man that he was, he promptly rolled the screen up and left it hanging there for all to see! Ah, to be young again... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 4 months

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Intro msg: Teraks, emulators, reviving cassette data

by jfoust＠threedee.com

I'd like to introduce myself to the list. I maintain the somewhat imaginary "Jefferson Computer Museum" at <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>, which has info about my several Terak systems. The Terak was a PDP-11/03-based graphics workstation circa 1978-85. My "Terak Museum" web page is the proud recipient of the "Geek Site of the Day" award for October 16, 1996. I also have historical info about the UCSD P-System, including an emulator, source code and very early Pascal compilers. In the months to come, I will add info about other systems I have, including a Zilog MCZ Z-80 development system, CBM PET and NEC systems. I've also been given permission by Claus Giloi to distribute the C source to his Windows-based Altair and IMSAI emulators. If you haven't seen this, it's a nifty graphical recreation, letting you click on the toggle switches to drive the emulator and watch the LEDs blink. In the years to come, I'd like to enhance it to include virtual peripherals, or with inexpensive recreations like an opto paper tape reader. Recently, I've been researching the possibility of reviving old audio cassette tape storage of computer data. With today's PC audio digitizers and a little software, it should be possible to decode and synthesize tapes in formats such as Tarbell tapes for S-100 systems, 88-ACR, Commodore PET, VIC and C-64, Bell 103 recordings, etc. A software approach would have several advantages: you don't need the original hardware, and it has a better chance of restoring out-of-spec data. A little digging revealed the "soundmodem", a driver for Linux and DOS that is a software-based FSK modem that can handle 300 to 9600 baud in real-time using a SoundBlaster as the digitizer / DSP. It is used by ham radio operators. To experiment, I digitized an old wobbly CBM PET tape and did a bit of post-processing in contemporary sound software and it normalized the volume quite well. I suspect with commercial audio software, one could even invoke filters to remove print-through. At 22 or 44 kHz mono 8-bit samples, there's certainly enough headroom to distinguish these relatively slow-speed signals. I'm sure with some formats, just watching the zero-crossing timing would work. I wonder if this technique could be used to rescue old N-track reel tapes that have become unreadable over the years, by intercepting, digitizing, and post-processing the tape-head signal. What would help the most is to get specifications for the old standards. I don't have any documentation, although I'm digging through the basement to find my old Kilobauds. I sent an e-mail to Don Tarbell, who is apparently still on the Internet, but no response so far. It would also help to see more samples! If you have any old cassettes, please consider digitizing them and sending them to me. In another area of the JCM, I've begun to collect ancient ASCII art >from the 60s and 70s: Einstein, Spock, Snoopy, etc. I've written a program that converts teletype-style overstrike art into Adobe Illustrator documents, which are easy to re-size and print on today's laser printers. I have dozens of pictures from DECUS tapes, but I'm always looking for more, and I'd like to record personal anecdotes about the creation of these old artworks. I'd also like to get an actual print sample of the entire printable font from an ASR-33 teletype, in order to scan and convert it into an authentic Postscript bitmap font. - John

28 years, 4 months

3
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Case designs (was: New Definiton REQUIRED)

by engine＠chac.org

At 12:48 11/19/97 +0000, you wrote: >The Rainbow, Pro series and DECmate 2 are very easy to pull to bits, >agreed. I once dismantled one on a train, much to the amazement of the >people sitting near me. ROTFL! Only you, Tony, or at the very least, you first among equals. ____________________________________________________________ Kip Crosby, honcho, mechanic and sole proprietor, Kip's Garage http://www.kipsgarage.com: rumors, tech tips and philosophy for the trenches Coming Spring '98: The Windows 98 Bible by Kip Crosby and Fred Davis!

28 years, 4 months

2
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Case designs (was: New Definiton REQUIRED)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<They're still going. Their modern stuff is not _as good_, but it's still <very well built. Oh, and the electronic design is up to the same high <standards. there is some truth and a fair amount of fiction. Some of the older stuff was overbuilt and it cost. The Barco had everything out front for a reason, when was the last time you have to converge a new monitor? Some of the older stuff that was a fairly common adjustment. Alos how much of the stuff made before say 1983/4 would pass FCC/DOC/TUV RF radiation requiments. Some of those new cases that come off easy are even RF tight, no small trick. Years ago it was box in box construction to get that. Some things in racks are still expensive as the racks and the system then support collectively have to be RF tight without being airtight. In addition you pay for weight, in shipping, cost of materials and sometimes time to produce. Now for a reality check. The last generation of transistor computers were fairly small. PDP-8, PDP12 being examples. All that quality. Well one of the itelms in that are a plastic/ceramic packaged transistor used in heaping piles. Electrically a decent enough device for the time and cheap too. One little problem, the transistor die is glued to a ceramic pad then wire bonds from the leads to the die and a drop of epoxy to enclose the component. Problem, epoxy is not hermetic and the bonds go from the affixed die to lead posts via they epoxy and as things heat and cool sometimes the forces are great enough to lift the lead right off the die. The result is transistors that work when cool and quit when warm. Needless to say that case design would disappear after a few years. Why use it to build a computer? Well in the 60s it would take say 10,000 of them and the same part in a metal case was several times the price as in $0.25 VS more than $1.00. It was the best option at that time. An aside for the crazies like me. If a straight-8 were built using modern surface mount transistors and components to the same electronic printset and current multilayer board and packaging techniques it would shrink by a factor of 5-10 without resorting to ICs not available at that time. The only challenge would be the core memory (the raw cores would be hard to find and expensive to assemble). Electronic packaging and construction has undergone considerable advancement and is more than wrapping metal or plastic around it. Some items like the cheap screws were also common with a few altair kits when MITS was having trouble. Or some of the other near vapor machines. I may add that I can buy a minitower box with PS these days for well under $100 but at the time of the altair the RAW cabinate from the vendor like that one was well over $100 and you still had to cut holes in it and fill it. I may add the Altair (8800) box was actually pretty flimsy compared to IMSAI or the later Horizon, Vector MX or CompuPro boxes. Allison

28 years, 4 months

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FS: Jupiter ACE computer

by rkneusel＠post.its.mcw.edu

I'm auctioning off my Jupiter ACE: http://kreeft.intmed.mcw.edu/auction.html Let me know if you have any problems. - Ron Kneusel rkneusel(a)mcw.edu

28 years, 4 months

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Wrong Way:New Definiton REQUIRED

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<in, regardless of how long it was produced. Were the others you <mentioned all produced for more than 2 years running? Sometimes I All of them were over two years. How about PDP-11s manufactured for over 25years and the older members are easily 20+ years old yet some members of the line are near impossible to find. Like Ford falcons they were cranked out but that doesn't mean they still abound. <"Really" think that the only place you'd find more attitude than in <this group would be in a flock of "Valley Girls". It's New York Girl to you! Bottom line, despite some peoples wishes the owner of the list has set the standard and it's reasonable enough to work well. Leave it alone. Allison

28 years, 4 months

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Wrong Way:New Definiton REQUIRED

by allisonp＠world.std.com

From: bill_r(a)inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) <How about making the rule something to the effect of "Systems older <than 20 years, or which were actively produced for less than _x_ (2?) <years running" ? Too complicated? At least it would cover almost all <of the "unique" machines. If they were made for more than 2 years, Really. Lets see the LINC was over twenty years ago and made for more than two years. There are very few of them. Back then (64-66ish) a couple dozen were a lot of any machine! It would also eliminate the Altair, Imsai, KIM-1, PDP-8 and a few others. It doesn't work. Allison

28 years, 4 months

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Case designs (was: New Definiton REQUIRED)

by engine＠chac.org

At 09:04 11/18/97 +0000, you wrote: >I've never understood this love of screwdriver-less cases. If I'm going to >be fixing a computer I'm going to have a soldering station, scope, logic >analyser, cutters, etc with me. So having a screwdriver set is no big deal >either. Wellll....I wouldn't mind a fastener that gave me the choice, like some kind of knurled goodie with a screwdriver slot. That would cover the case where I'm at someone's house for dinner, and they say "Oh, BTW, my computer's not working," and I didn't bring a screwdriver and they don't own a #2 Phillips. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 4 months

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New Definiton REQUIRED

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:39 PM 11/16/97 -0500, you wrote: >OK, I am probably going to get yelled at... > >> Okay.... recently, there's been lots of "off-topic" stuff going on here >> about computers... but I think that it's not "off-topic." > >In my opinion it is. There are lots of good, smart people on this list >that can help everyone with modern(ish) equipment, but there are also lots >of them on other lists and USENET. I agree. I even think that there are better sources of info on the day-to-day operation of things like an Atari ST or Falcon (which I have) than here. If you want to know how to copy disks under CP/M, you'll be better off in comp.os.cpm. Which is not to say that such a question would necessarily be unwelcome, just not as well answered. Better might be "Where/who should I ask about formatting CP/M disks?" Mind you, I've answered PC questions posed to a Land Rover list (and suffered through discussions of florists in Oregon and which guitars are the best (I like Fenders, if I could afford one) on the same list.) >> if you remember, in the "welcome" message, it >> said that it was hard to state the definiton of a classic... but 10 >> years or older would do. Well, 10 years is kinda arbitrary (and probably rather recent at this point.) Still, gotta do it somehow. My personal guideline is non-mainstream stuff (non-pc and non-mac) unless it's something really weird (like the Outbound laptop or the IBM PC Radio.) Still, that keeps it to >10yrs for almost everything except the occasional oddity. I wouldn't, fer instance, bother mentioning the Sharp PC-7100's or Compaq lunchbox here, even though they're probably 10yrs+ (Sharps for sure.) (Except, of course, as part of a larger discussion on the history of portable computers.) In any case, as with any such list, the decision and definition really belongs only to the list owner (Bill Whitson in this case) no matter how much he might solicit or be affected by input from list members. (And, of course, we all have the option of setting up our own DOS-PC-Collectors or whatever list if we want.) Personally, I'm not all that into DEC stuff (though a PDP 11/70 was my first and I thought it was great) so I wouldn't mind seeing less VAXstationery this or DECwindowshades that messages, but I wouldn't think of suggesting that others not post them. I just delete them (sometimes even without reading them -- Sorry!) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 4 months

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Old stuff found

by krh03＠csufresno.edu

Found on comp.sys.tandy Greetings: I have acquired a pile of boxes from an estate sale. Numerous old computer pieces-parts that I thought might be of some value, but I don't know where to 'advertise' them -- and now they must go. Included are computers - TI & Radio Shack, some in perfect condition -- one is in a heavy steel case, RS keybd, could be home brew from misc parts but I can't tell, could it possibly be a stock TRS 80? software - cartridges & 5 1/4 floppies printers - are ribbons & print heads still available? ref books - old, specialized, probably junk monitors - USI, PI2, mono, unfamiliar connectors {also 2 non-computer antiques: 1) an old Associated Press linotype machine, with ribbons, very heavy. 2) 3M copier.} chips - small, many, stored in plastic tubes LNW Research products - look like large keybds but may be more than that -- one box is different as follows You should see this manual, it is beautiful. Yes, Virginia, there is such a thing as an Antique Computer. Wish it had a date in it; ref is made to a CA sales tax of 6%. "System Expansion for the TRS-80 [pc board & user manual] w/ serial RS232C / 20mA I/O floppy controller 32K bytes memory" (awesome) etc.... Found a date. Guess! Answer to follow at signature. So please, somebody, send me a clue, what can I do. Anyone know an address where I can list these? Are old puters so plentiful as to not have any value as collector's items? Thanks much. ---mikey DON'T PEEK THE1ANSWER9IS8DON'T1PEEK Found on comp.sys.ti I have a couple TI99/4As, an expansion box with a disk drive and other stuff (very heavy), another disk drive, and some carts that a coworker was going to throw away. I live in Gilroy, CA and work in San Jose, CA. Anyone interested? Bostone1 Bostone1(a)aol.com

28 years, 4 months

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Fwd: Re: Info? HP1000 F series

by dwalterm＠ix.netcom.com

James Willing <jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com> wrote: > While wandering around one of my favourite surplus gear haunts today, I cam > across a couple of HP 1000 F series minicomputers. While they look neat, I > know just about nothing about them. Anyone out there familiar enough with > them to give me the 'infamous 25 words or less' speech on their significance? They're real-time control systems, based around the 21MX processor family (which succeeded the 2100 (ca. 1972) and 211[456] (ca. 1967)) and running one of several flavors of HP's RTE operating system. I've never actually used them. I worked on them for years.... You will still find them in Nuclear Power Plant control rooms, all phases of automotive testing and even handling online ATM transactions. The E series was even used as a fast front end for Burroughs mainframes. Also lots of military applications. The front panel/door drops down to show the memory backplane. The top three boards are the two channel DMA, Memory Protect and MEM (Memory Expansion Controller). This was needed if you wanted to use more than 32K of memory. The back backplane was for the I/O cards. Near the bottom is the TBG (Time Base Generator). The Model 2117F had more slots and the hardware floating point processor was a separate box. The more rare version had the Floating Point boards built into the top of the regular case. This meant a loss of memory and I/O slots.... These systems had all kinds of I/O available from paper tape puches/readers to mag tapes to all kinds of hard disk drives, floppies, terminals, A/D, other instrumentation, etc. Later they had SCSI and various proprietary and standard networking. Lots of great memories :-)

28 years, 4 months

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Wrong Way:New Definiton REQUIRED

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 06:20 PM 11/18/97 +0000, you wrote: >the following info: (1) The definition is bendable, as circimsances dicatate, >(2) The definition is pretty much fine as it is, but (3) (The BIG one) Many Ultimately, the definition is up to Bill Whitson. If people start talking about stuff he's not interested in, or that he doesn't feel to be the provenance of this list, he'll a) warn people, b) unsubscribe people, or c) shut the list down. So personally, because I certainly don't want b) or c) to happen, and I'd rather a) didn't have to, I'll stick to the topics Bill had in mind when creating this list. If I'm really desperate to talk about which 486 motherboards are collectible, I'll start my own collect486 list. >computers will NOT be significant classics... origionally, as has been pointed >out, the "10 year" rule was to make sure that IBMs weren't included... first the I think it was set so as to avoid current/mainstream computer support questions. (Which I'm sure most of the people on this list could answer, but that's not why they've subscribed to this list.) The (admittedly debateable) position that generic PC's are *not* significant/collectible/etc. and thusly are not the provenance of this list is a (IMO) welcome side effect. (Note: some pc's *are* significant or collectible -- lots of portables, the corner case one (packard bell?), monorails, Kip's Rose Hill PC (to Kip), etc. -- they're just not the focus of this list.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 4 months

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Case designs (was: New Definiton REQUIRED)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 06:57 AM 11/18/97 -0800, you wrote: >At 09:04 11/18/97 +0000, you wrote: >>I've never understood this love of screwdriver-less cases. If I'm going to >>be fixing a computer I'm going to have a soldering station, scope, logic >>analyser, cutters, etc with me. So having a screwdriver set is no big deal Another thought... I've not yet figured out how to squeeze >24 hours in a day, and I've got about 54 hours worth of stuff to do every day, so anything that saves a little time is welcome. >where I'm at someone's house for dinner, and they say "Oh, BTW, my >computer's not working," and I didn't bring a screwdriver and they don't >own a #2 Phillips. Some people (esp. on this list) may not realize it, but there are actually hordes of people out there who go their entire lives without ever owning a single screwdriver. Which is why I've got two in/on my laptop case, several in my laptop "kit", and a swiss army knife with a flat sd, phillips sd, pliers, and (8^) corkscrew. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 4 months

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Case designs (was: New Definiton REQUIRED)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:04 AM 11/18/97 +0000, you wrote: >I've never understood this love of screwdriver-less cases. If I'm going to >be fixing a computer I'm going to have a soldering station, scope, logic >analyser, cutters, etc with me. So having a screwdriver set is no big deal It's not so much for *fixing* as it is for *upgrading*. If you want to swap in a new floppy drive or add memory or what-have-you, it's much easier on some computers than others. S-100's were great in some respects -- just lift the ears and the boards pop right out. Or, drop 'em in the channels and they slide right in. The Mac 8500AV, on the other hand, requires nearly a complete disassembly just to add some memory. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 4 months

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Heathkit H-11

by rcini＠email.msn.com

What do you think of this... I have a guy in Jacksonville FL with a Heathkit H11 system. CPU, dual 8" disk drive unit, all software and manuals. Cost of shipping (to NY). Is the H11 just a repackaged PDP-11?? What else can you tell me about it? Rich Cini/WUGNET <rcini(a)msn.com> - ClubWin! Charter Member (6) - MCP Windows 95/Networking

28 years, 4 months

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New Definiton REQUIRED

by engine＠chac.org

At 14:02 11/18/97 -0800, Tim wrote: >.... Some drives have even removed the >drive select jumper options, forcing you to use the half-baked concept >of a cable with a twist in the middle. Half-baked, yet burned. ____________________________________________________________ Kip Crosby, honcho, mechanic and sole proprietor, Kip's Garage http://www.kipsgarage.com: rumors, tech tips and philosophy for the trenches Coming Spring '98: The Windows 98 Bible by Kip Crosby and Fred Davis!

28 years, 4 months

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New Definiton REQUIRED

by manney＠nwohio.com

> Age, also, alone, does not make a classic. I doubt that the standard >run-of-the-mill '386 PeeCee will ever amount to anything except to, >perhaps, archaeologists who dig one out of a landfill. There were too >many of them made, and they were (are) regarded as "disposable". Look >at the construction - modern machines aren't made to be repaired any >more than a disposable cigarette lighter is made to be refilled. They >burn out, you toss' em, and buy another one. Well, not quite. You'll have a motherboard problem with Packard Bell, Compaq and the like -- but many use "generic" motherboards; thus a Baby AT case would fit anything from a 286 to a Pentium whatever (btw, shouldn't a P5 be called a Pentium Pro Lite?) Floppy disks, of course, have been standardized since the original PC, both in interface and form factor; EIDE/SCSI for hard disks, IDE for CD-ROM's. I upgrade PC's much of the time (probably sell 10 used systems/upgrades to 1 new system) and can tell you that upgrading _is_ viable in the PC world.

28 years, 4 months

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New Definiton REQUIRED

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

As I recall, there's a little app around someplace that allows you to put whatever you want on the Wyse front panel display. > -----Original Message----- > From: PG Manney [SMTP:manney@nwohio.com] > Sent: Monday, November 17, 1997 10:29 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: New Definiton REQUIRED > > > another weird feature on Wyse 286 that can show time and > >date, mhz display like 8mhz, 12mhz and backlighted! :) > > Hey, I just had one of those come in for repair! The hard drive table aldo > has double digit numbers, something I've never seen before. >

28 years, 4 months

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Wrong Way:New Definiton REQUIRED

by engine＠chac.org

At 18:20 11/18/97 +0000, Hotze wrote: >....pretty soon, we'll be getting in to a >time where the words "IBM Compatible" are going to get replaced with "PC." The >fact is, there are just too darn many 386s to contemplate... we have a few >options... (1) Allow only the first/last (IE Deskpro 386 first, I don't know >about last).... Nuh uh. ALR 386 first, Compaq second. The ALR 386 is one of the most collectible of all Intel boxes. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 4 months

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IBM 5100

by michaelg＠gray.mb.ca

I own two complete IBM 5100 systems. My original machine was fully loaded with 64k and both APL and BASIC in ROM. It also had the serial I/O card and I used to remotely access the machine with an ASR33 teletype at 110(?) baud. With the proprietary vertical market software plus the IBM software, I paid about $64,000 in 1975(?), or about a buck a byte. The other, purchased ten years later for spares, has BASIC only and I forget the amount of memory. I also have the entire library of IBM software released for these machines and all documentation including the service manuals. I have two external tape drives and two printers as well and boxes and boxes of tapes. I wrote a fully-funcional word-processor in APL for use with the "Paper Tiger"-series printers. I wrote over 100 user manuals on this machine and output camera-ready copy. If anyone out there needs any info or assistance with the 5100, perhaps I can help. -- Michael. -----------------------------------------------+------------------------ Michael Gillespie | Voice/Fax 204.943.9000 President, Telecommunities Canada Inc. | michaelg(a)tc.ca President, The Gray Research Group | michaelg(a)gray.mb.ca Project Manager, Blue Sky Community Networks | michaelg(a)freenet.mb.ca --- No good deed will go unpunished. ---- Standard Disclaimers Apply ---

28 years, 4 months

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Wrong Way:New Definiton REQUIRED

by allisonp＠world.std.com

From: HOTZE <photze(a)batelco.com.bh> <computers will NOT be significant classics... origionally, as has been poin <out, the "10 year" rule was to make sure that IBMs weren't included... firs <IBM/PC, then the IBM XT, then the AT, and pretty soon, we'll be getting in Where in the world did that come from? Since anything greater than 10 years old would have been made in 1987 or before there is a whole class of PCs, XTs, and even ATs that fit. However, 386s(barely), 486s and P5s do not. Also I think the idea of the list was to not help me be a general "help me fix my PC forum". it's a common problem that new PC oowners are everywhere in every forums asking for help usually far from the topic and intent of the list (comp.os.cpm come to mind). I don't mean help with a older XT or PC but the "I just got a p6/233 and it doesn't...." stuff. 10 years, that's simple enough for most of us. Allison

28 years, 4 months

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New Definiton/ Vaporware lives still!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From: HOTZE <photze(a)batelco.com.bh> <(1) Are old/new Motherboards compatible (IE 300 Mhz now, 600 Mhz later) I don't know or care. Likely not but there are reasons I say so. <(2) Where on God's creation can the parts???? (As for the OS, I'll probably take Linux, or NT, but I though there was translation software for x86 written...) I can't solve your geography problem. Here in the USA Alphas are plentyful as in western europe. The news groups have several a week for sale. Yes there is DEC software for x86 emulation. All you need to do is spend money as most all of it is current enough to buy. It is far to new to even discuss it further here Alpha is a 90s machine! By definition not eligible for status here till 2000+. Allison

28 years, 4 months

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New Definiton REQUIRED

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> > latest thing to come down the 'pike - it's all ASICs, custom silicon, <> > and surface mount stuff on wafer-thin boards. In short - not built <> > to last. Nor is it designed to. Surface mount offers compact and also better signal integrity for ultrafast logic. There are many good reasons for surface mount that are in the realm of quality improvement. Yes, it's take more skill to fix and some of the parts are not easy to come by. FYI in the industry there a few descriptions of part of the problem. Good, fast, cheap, pick two. Cost of repair exceeds value of unit. Fix/trash decision. Many machine were made the way they were because technology of the time balanced against cost were deciding factors. Allison

28 years, 4 months

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Data General model 6122 disk subsystem available

by pcoad＠wco.com

There is a local (Silicon Valley) guy who has a model 6122 disk subsystem with two packs. It has a capacity of 277MB and requires 3 phase power. Included are also some shipping cases for the packs. I believe that the subsystem weighs about 200-300 pounds. The dimensions are approximately 20" x 48" x 30". It was used with a Data General Eclipse S/140. My understanding is that the unit can be had for the price of shipping or for free you are willing to pick it up. I am willing to take care of the labor for packing and shipping. This unit will be scrapped soon if a home cannot be found for it. --pec -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Antique Computer Collection: http://www.wco.com/~pcoad/machines.html

28 years, 4 months

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Software Needed

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hello... I just got that spiffy coco2 emulator, and I need software for it... Thanks in Advance, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 4 months

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HD Floppies in DD Drives

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> William Donzelli wrote: > > > says that they will last at least ten years. The best solution (other than > > mylar punched tape) is probably the older WORM drives (not MOs!), as they > > Purely out of morbid curiosity, has anybody ever considered making Tyvek > tape? The stuff is damned near impossible to tear and difficult even to > stretch enough to lose data. That is actually a very good idea. I shall dig out some tyvek samples and cut some inch-wide strips for initial tests. If this is OK, I shall contact the manufacturers. I'll post results here, but can't make any promises as to timescale. FWIW I kept some tyvek samples (from an office supplies catalogue) for use as gasket paper on my car. Works a treat on things like carburettors, gear levers, etc. Don't fancy trying it on cylinder heads, though... Philip.

28 years, 4 months

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For Trade: (New) Inmac 16 sector 5 1/4" floppy disks

by bill_r＠inetnebr.com

I need some 5 1/4" 10-sector floppies for my various "classic/antique" machines. I thought that was what I was buying in a recent on-line auction. What I ended up with was 16-sector floppies. I don't even know what uses these; certainly nothing I have. Accordingly, I'm offering to trade for 10-sector versions. These are Inmac DS,DD, 16 hard sector 5 1/4" disks with envelopes. Quantity 30 (3 boxes of 10). Two boxes are still factory shrink-wrapped. The 3rd was until I opened it to verify that I'd gotten the wrong thing; none were used. Make a trade offer, or alternatively, does anyone know where and how much I might be able to just *buy* some 10-sectors? -Bill Richman bill_r(a)inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "When they took the fourth amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs. When they took the sixth amendment, I was quiet because I was innocent. When they took the second amendment, I was quiet because I didn't own a gun. Now they've taken the first amendment, and I can say nothing about it." -www.paranoia.com

28 years, 4 months

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Model 100, again

by manney＠nwohio.com

>Ok, I still haven't been able to find out what's wrong with the LCD in my >Tandy Model 100 (the rest of the machine works fine, as I was able to tell >by blind-writing BASIC progs that beep the speaker). Just type PRINT CHR$(7), which will process ASCII BEL (Control G).

28 years, 4 months

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One from the 'believe it or not' file...

by lfb107＠psu.edu

>In a message dated 97-11-17 12:20:14 EST, HOTZE put forth: >RE: the unix box, and the issue whether to power it up: >back in the 1980s i collected beer cans and it was clearly established that >cans were worth more if full, or emptied from the bottom so the drink tab was >left undisturbed and full 6packs were the most valuable, so i say if it's >left alone, it would be "worth" more. i have an unused ibm 5150 in the >original box with the original cardboard shipping disks along with the >original keyboard in its' box. they may not be worth a lot now, but will be >eventually, especially with their boxes and documentation. >david I think we are forgetting one thing. Sure the 7300 would technically be "worth" more still in the box, but there is a limit to what you'll be able to actually get. You see these things very often for free (3B2's as well) on the comp.sys.att newsgroup so what does that make it worth then? I would have to vote for "just use it." Any parts can be scavenged from PC's or usually for free on the ng. LeS

28 years, 4 months

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One from the 'believe it or not' file...

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 04:38 PM 11/17/97 +0000, you wrote: > EXACTLY!!!! There are people who collect baseball cards (Somehthing which > I DO NOT do) and leave them in the packaging.... they don't even know what > cards are inside.... for all they know, the information could lead them to I know a guy who has a collection of CA lottery tickets (the $1 scratch-off tickets) that is complete (except one that he missed). One of each type, unscratched. Sure, he could be missing out on $10k or something, but to him, having the collection is worth more. (He also has a collection of scratched ones.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)ricochet.net that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 4 months

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One from the 'believe it or not' file...

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 97-11-17 12:20:14 EST, HOTZE put forth: > You see... that's the thing... I don't have anywhere to start but HERE. I've > really only been REALLY interested in the PC business since '93, and > collecting classics since May... I don't have ANYTHING.... I don't know > anybody (except all of you lovely people out there....), and so I need > somewhere to start... IBMs seem to be what I'm good at (I program them now > as > a hobby, so I know x86) I would take an IBM/PC, or, if they're easy to find, > > a PC jr. well, gee, i have an extra pcjr and power supply laying around here... dont know what shipping would be, however. RE: the unix box, and the issue whether to power it up: back in the 1980s i collected beer cans and it was clearly established that cans were worth more if full, or emptied from the bottom so the drink tab was left undisturbed and full 6packs were the most valuable, so i say if it's left alone, it would be "worth" more. i have an unused ibm 5150 in the original box with the original cardboard shipping disks along with the original keyboard in its' box. they may not be worth a lot now, but will be eventually, especially with their boxes and documentation. david

28 years, 4 months

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Coco For "Sale"

by dfitts1＠pdq.net

Sirs, I received your name from Bill Yakowenko. I have a TRS-8080 Color Computer 2 with mod kit to solve the overheating problem and memory upgrade. My system also includes a disk drive, multi-pak interface, cassette recorder, x-pad graphics tablet, deluxe joysticks, external serial/parallel port interface, X-10 light/appliance controller, light pen, editor/assembler module and parts for an experimenter's I/O port. I also have OS-9 and numerous other programs and very much documentation including all original manuals. Finally, I have many Color Computer magazines, including almost every issue of Color Computer News. I'm interested in finding this equipment a good home at extremely low or no price other than postage. I'm not sure what services you provide but if you post messages such as the above would you please post this? Too, what is your website address? Thanks, David Fitts

28 years, 4 months

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tape readers unique solution

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Could cut some canned trannys open that is touchy to light and fill They all are! 2n5777 is a good photodarlington I've used a few. <those sensors from dead mouses, you can use either IR LED or strong <light. (YES! those light bulbs generate lot of IR). At lower than optimum voltage the IR is very there! IR however penetrates some paper tapes real well (if oil soaked better than white light!). It's been years since I've built one but I could reproduce it in an afternoon or two if need be. Allison

28 years, 4 months

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HD Floppies in DD Drives

by engine＠chac.org

At 13:29 11/15/97 -0500, you wrote: >I don't think that indestructibility of the tape is the issue...the coating >is the problem -- sliding across the head. What are you gonna bond to Tyvek? No, no, no! Tyvek PUNCHED tape! Coat nothing! Build a carbide punch-head.... Pull it through whippin' fast, like Colossus. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 4 months

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help needed on a amiga 500

by darlene＠iamerica.net

It sounds like your machine needs a good cleaning, the disk drive is not reading the disk"maybe". I have four working commodore c64 computers, and the drives need to be cleaned. Even more after laying around for a long period of time. If your drive turns when you try to load something it sounds like it could be a dirty drive. It's not much to go on, but I have seen these small things stop folks in their tracks. good luck, bad eye bill.

28 years, 4 months

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New Definiton/ Vaporware lives still!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Um, Linux 2.0.30 now have Alpha support, PPC, 68k (amiga), 386, Mips, <Sparc, Ataris. Linux is Unix kind which you can source unix source <code to it by freely available complier and make 'em. I rememberd that after I sent the message. Old brain cells. Allison

28 years, 4 months

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One from the 'believe it or not' file...

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

I would vote to leave it alone, as this is a real classic untouched. John At 08:40 AM 11/16/97 -0800, you wrote: >You know, I always hate these moral dilemmas... > >In the last few days the collection received an AT&T UNIX PC (aka 7300, >3b1) in extremely good condition. It arrived with all of the original >docs, software, and mouse. The docs were unwrapped , and the mouse was in >its original foam packing. "Kind of nice when someone packs things away >properly" I thought. > >Well, its been a bit busy around the garage the last couple of weeks, so I >put the unit and its associated stuff on the shelf and covered it up for a >time. > >Last night, while I was working on a notebook (yes, one of those 'modern' >things) for one of my wife's friends, I decided to have another look at the >UNIX PC while I was waiting for a disk scan to finish... > >Found a spot for it on the bench, made a cursory check of the unit (nothing >loose, nothing rattling...) and powered it up. It hummed and beeped >happily and started drawing little boxes on the screen as I recalled it >doing when it was starting up... > >However, about 3-4 minutes and 4-5 lines of little boxes later, it starts >to dawn on me that it should not be taking quite this long to get a prompt >of some kind. So, I move the keyboard to have a look at the floppy drive >(it hides behind the keyboard you see) and sure enough the machine is >looking for a floppy. > >Fine... so, I grab the binder containing the software distribution, open it >up... > >All of the disks are still sealed! At this point it starts to dawn on me, >that this machine has never been run! A comment flashes back to mind; made >by the person who gave me the machine... "My father bought it for his >company, read the manuals and realized that he had no idea what he was >doing..." > >I find myself wondering... Back around 1985 when this thing was released >(and about $10k+), who could have afforded to buy one of these things, open >the manuals, decide that they were in over their heads, and just put it on >the shelf without even loading the software??? EEK! > >And so, the dilemma... do I open the disks and crank this critter up? Or >just pack it all away as another classic 'artifact'? (or leave it until I >have a fair amount of time to spend with it) > >No flame wars please, just the random philosophical question... > >-jim > >--- >jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com >The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw >Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 > > > >

28 years, 4 months

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One from the 'believe it or not' file...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Along the same lines.... While digging through one of my boxes of stuff for a part I found a partial S100 Jade Double density disk controller kit unassembled. Of course I remember why I had it, the person that gave it to me back in '82 wasn't up for the assembly task, raided it for parts and gave me the remains. At the time I wasn't interested in getting a 1793 based controller going as I was getting 765As for free and all the assistance >from it's designers I could use. Well guess what. I'm 98% of the way through assembling it. Then I have to assemble the source code as there are no disks but lots of listings in the manuals. It's z80 based in that it has its own CPU as a bus slave. Should be interesting to get going. Oh, all the missing parts are from my collection and a few are date coded before the board! It was all I had of some parts. Allison

28 years, 4 months

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New Definiton REQUIRED

by fmc＠reanimators.org

HOTZE <photze(a)batelco.com.bh> wrote: > [...] if you remember, in the "welcome" message, it > said that it was hard to state the definiton of a classic... but 10 > years or older would do. I do not wish to offend the owner, but they > are one person, and they can make mistakes... and together, as a group, > the chances of making an accurate definiton are smaller with us. Right. Not too many people are going to agree on this. There's probably a few people out there who think the Atari Portfolio is a classic and I think it's under 10 years old. The IBM PC/AT is 13 years old now but I have difficulty thinking of it as a classic and I really couldn't care less. But the 10 year rule is simple and not without precedent (it's roughly the way other things are judged "antique" -- if I remember correctly the "magic number" is 100 years for furniture and housewares and 20 years for automobiles). That's why we have it, we know it's not perfect but it does provide a clear cutoff. (Aside to You Know Who You Are: knock it off, OK?) > Possibly (out for MUCH revision...) is the definition "Any computer > which has aged sufficently to be considered "outdated" by the computer > market and has historic signifiance, OR is 10 years old or older." The > one evedeint place that requires revsion is the "historical signifiacne" Does it? The problem is that inside 10 years it's very difficult to judge historical significance. And just because it's older than 10 years doesn't make finding the historical significance any easier. I'm hard pressed to think of what was significant about the PC/AT, as near as I could tell at the time it was put to work as a bigger faster IBM PC, still running all the same old MS-DOS applications, still one at a time. And from conversations I've had with folks who were doing Unix stuff on the 80286 then, they didn't think 80286 protected mode was progress w/r/t the PDP-11. Well, what did the PC/AT have that the PC/XT didn't? 1.2MB minifloppies (although I saw those retrofit onto XT-class PCs), 16-bit slots, a cascaded interrupt controller to handle the additional interrupt request lines...and the A20 gate that let you get at another little chunk of RAM up above the 1MB boundary while still in real mode. Hmm. How many of these things do we consider historically significant now, and how many will we still consider significant in 5, 10, 25, 50, 100 years? -Frank McConnell

28 years, 4 months

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New Definiton/ Vaporware lives still!

by carl.friend＠stoneweb.com

On Mon, 17 Nov 1997, Allison remarked to us: > You have three choices [for an Alpha OS] that I know of, OpenVMS > (my favorite), Digital Unix, or NT. I don't know that anyone has > done a UNIX port outside of digital. Linux has been successfully ported to the Alpha architecture. ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | |________________________________________________|_____________________|

28 years, 4 months

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by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Hey all. I think its about time I de-lurk and introduce myself. My name is Bill, and I'm very interested in SwTPC and SSB stuff. We had a couple SwTPC 6800 systems in my high school way back when, and I'd love to see one again (or own one!). After signing up for the Classic Computer Rescue Squad, I started thinking, if a big old machine actually needed a rescue, what would we do? I mean, maybe we should collect info on how big these old things are, in terms of floor-space, tonnage, time to dismantle, and so on. Then, when a rescue call comes in, we could maybe decide if we can feasibly deal with it, and if anyone actually wants the thing. If only three guys show up to dismantle 200 tons of vacuum tubes, it isn't gonna happen on-schedule. And it's one thing to keep a mini in a corner, but not all of us can arrange space for, say, a 360. So there are legitimate (if sad) reasons that we might have to pass up a find. Also, would it be good to have a rescue checklist? I can think of a dozen things that might be good to do during a rescue, but I'll bet I wouldn't think of half of it in the excitement of rescue-day. I guess I'm volunteering to collect this, if you all think it's a good idea and want to suggest things. Okay, I'll close with the obligatory lists: Want: SwTPC 6800, CT-64, CT-VM, MF-68 EPROM burner Have (willing to trade away): DecScope terminal (ie: vt52), works DecMate-III (don't yet know if it works) Apple //c with monochrome monitor, some manuals, works Radio Shack CoCo 2's, work Defaced (ie: no faceplate) Amiga something-or-other, with no monitor, keyboard, docs, or anything, probably doesn't work Have (and will keep!): Radio Shack CoCo 1's and a CoCo 3, tech manual IBM PC-XT clone SwTPC S/09 (down with disk problems) Lear-Seigler ADM-31 terminal (bought today!) Of course, some of this stuff would have significant shipping costs associated with it, unless you live nearby (central NC). Cheers, Bill.

28 years, 4 months

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Found on AuctionWeb...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Also, a trackstar E for use with Tandy/IBM compatibles (Apple //e emulator Trackstar 128 Funny I have one of them, haven't figured out what to do with it yet. Not being an apple user it's an odd item in my collection. Allison

28 years, 4 months

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New Definiton REQUIRED

by manney＠nwohio.com

> another weird feature on Wyse 286 that can show time and >date, mhz display like 8mhz, 12mhz and backlighted! :) Hey, I just had one of those come in for repair! The hard drive table aldo has double digit numbers, something I've never seen before.

28 years, 4 months

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New Definiton REQUIRED

by manney＠nwohio.com

>Well, what did the PC/AT have that the PC/XT didn't? 1.2MB >minifloppies (although I saw those retrofit onto XT-class PCs), 16-bit >slots, a cascaded interrupt controller to handle the additional >interrupt request lines...and the A20 gate that let you get at another >little chunk of RAM up above the 1MB boundary while still in real >mode. ...and the hard drive info in ROM. But, you're right. The 286-386 jump was more significant than the 8088-286 jump, even though so of those 286 changes that you mentioned are still with us that Pentiums are "AT" (not 386) class machines.

28 years, 4 months

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Classic Computer Accumulation Squad

by manney＠nwohio.com

>Hey, for years one of the standard excuses for getting a home computer >was "Hey, we can keep recipes on it". For that of course, you really >want a membrane keyboard -- pasta sauce in a Keytronics is fatal. I always _loved_ seeing the adverts of smiling Mom (no flour on her hands, natch!) booting up the family PC to get her recipes. Some of those early recipe programs would specify oddities such as "5/48 tsp chives". > >And _of course_ a similarly protected laptop belongs in the bathroom, >when you're setting down to do some serious Usenet reading. Hey, I used to program in the bath with my HP-71!

28 years, 4 months

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One from the 'believe it or not' file...

by manney＠nwohio.com

>And so, the dilemma... do I open the disks and crank this critter up? Or >just pack it all away as another classic 'artifact'? (or leave it until I >have a fair amount of time to spend with it) Open it up -- play with it -- computers are meant to be _used_.

28 years, 4 months

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New Definiton REQUIRED

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> Rainbow machine is very quirky demanding > weird hardware and quirky disks in both format and hardsectored. :( Bear in mind that from the perspective of us CP/M folks, demanding absolutely rigid hardware compatibility is quirky... > IBM produced > excellent PS/2 '87 era series that can be ripped apart with bare > hands except for motherboard and PSU screws. FWIW, my absolute favorite box of all time is the VAXstation 4000/60 or /96; you can get everything out of the box quickly with no tools. In contrast, it's only been in the last few years that I've gotten coordinated enough to keep from mutilating my knuckles every time I go into a VAXstation 2000... Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 4 months

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New Definiton REQUIRED

by engine＠chac.org

At 15:42 11/17/97 +0000, you wrote: >This is what I like about the Zip IDE drives it's a right design like >the floppy drive machism. But I wished Iomega sell one in SCSI >version as well which means we have to press for it! er....There are SCSI Zip drives, both int and ext. I've got an internal here, use it to store the techno and ambient I listen to through an AWE32. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years, 4 months

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New Definiton REQUIRED

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

Allison wrote: > <> acceptable OS. Although CP/M running native on a Pentium 133 is pretty > <> cool, and fast! By collecting Non-PC's there a tons of OS's to play with > > CP/M-80 running on a 16mhz z180 is far more interesting. ;-) Bear in mind: - Z180s now do up to 33MHz - The average 128Kx8 15 ns SRAM - is fast enough to run at 33MHz with no wait states - contains enough on-board logic to do address decoding in a simple Z180 system Sigh; I see ads in Circuit Cellar for folks that take 68HC12s in surface-mount packages and mount them on an adapter board for folks that want through-hole parts. Anyone know of someone doing the same thing with either the Z182 (or, better yet, the Z195) or at least generic footprints of the appropriate size? Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

28 years, 4 months

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tape readers unique solution

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<A little bit of head banging and we realized that to read paper tape, all y <need is a hand scanner, dark background, some kind of rig to hold the scann <in position above a 1" channel and, well, programming as appropriate. smashing ants with atomic cannon. The simplest form of scanner is 9 photocells(photo transistor or diode) lined up under the tape, light above and the 9th (sproket hole connectd to the data available(or ack) of a parallel port such as the PC printer port. Tape movement, pull by hand. should be good for 300->3000 char sec easily. It's trivial hardware. Program: Copy LPT: file.tap Done. Allison

28 years, 4 months

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New Definiton/ Vaporware lives still!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<being sold as "outdated". I know managers refusing to buy DEC Alpha's <because the Intel Merced chip is supposed to be available in a couple <of years - and the first Merced's will be only a bit slower than today's <currently available Alpha's. Talk about being blown away by vapor... Lessee, wait a few years to get what's available now. Excuse me I must be missing something here as doesn't business have to go on in the mean time??? Talk about pinning hopes on the sky. This is straight out of the early micro years when products would be hyped only for the company to go bust before anyone would see it or worse deliver it years late and working poorly(sorta like WIN95!). Allison

28 years, 4 months

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One from the 'believe it or not' file...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< What do we do with that example? Leave it packed away? Fire it <up for the edification of the locals (worldwide)? This is a knotty <question, and one that harks somewhat to the same question asked by <those who restore, and fly, antique aircraft. If we fly it, there's <always the possibility that we might have a failure and the example <(artifact) may be destroyed - if we don't, we're ignoring the essential <beauty and function of the design. The classic example of this and a conter arguement is the BeeGee Racing aircraft. It was considered a widowmaker, as it nearly or did kill most of the pilots that flew it!. A replica was made and the plane has been flying for several years at airshows and doing remarkable acrobatics... guess what it hasn't killed the pilot. What was lost was that it took a healty respect and some knowledge of design and flight to figure out that it wasn't so much the plane as the pilots that were the problem and they have learned about the flight characteristics of a plane that was deemed unflyable. Not to mention seeing a piece of flying history debunked. < I, offhand, am tempted to say "park the craft" and find another one <that's a bit more beat up. Restore that one, and drive it to your <heart's content. But save the "factory original" one - like an old <Tucker. With some exception cars and place can be preserved where some parts of computers must be exercised or potentially fail. The other issue is this may not even be a working example at this time. It's one thing when it's the last one, another when there are more to see. Allison

28 years, 4 months

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One from the 'believe it or not' file...

by ware＠xtal.pharm.nwu.edu

At 08:40 AM 11/16/97 -0800, James Willing wrote: (AT&T 3B1 found...) >However, about 3-4 minutes and 4-5 lines of little boxes later, it starts >to dawn on me that it should not be taking quite this long to get a prompt >of some kind. So, I move the keyboard to have a look at the floppy drive >(it hides behind the keyboard you see) and sure enough the machine is >looking for a floppy. Is the hard disk spinning up? I purchased two "new" (in the box with shrink-wrapped software) UNIX PCs about a year ago. One of the internal hard disks (a Micropolis 20 MB 1/2 height ST-506 interface MFM unit) did not spin up, presumably due to stiction or a relative thereof. The computer with this disk exhibited the behavior that you describe. The other machine started up a "Welcome to the UNIX PC" application that prompted me to insert the first disk of the installation media. On the systems that I have (1 MB RAM, 20 MB HD 7300s), the system software was not preinstalled, presumably to allow the version of the OS that was shipped with the machines to be changed easily. If you have opened the media, try booting the machine with the diagnostic disk. If this works, the hard disk is likely to be the culprit. As Ward Griffiths mentioned, the 3B1 uses ST-506 interface MFM disks, but it can only access 67 MB without hardware modifications. There are utilities on the diagnostic disk that you can use to test, format, partition, and make filesystems on the hard disk. If you can't get the hard disk working with these utilities, replacing it isn't too difficult. The ST-251-1 in my UNIX PC isn't original, but neither are the GNU utilities, csh, and Perl that I have installed on it. If you're fortunate enough to have the (somewhat rare) Ethernet card or the (somewhat more rare) TCP/IP software for it, be sure to check out the 3B1 FAQ before putting it on a network. There are some major security holes, especially in the windowing environment. Brian Stuart has a lot of good information (and the comp.sys.3b1 FAQ) on the Web at http://colossus.mathcs.rhodes.edu/~stuart/3b1/3b1.html . >I find myself wondering... Back around 1985 when this thing was released >(and about $10k+), who could have afforded to buy one of these things, open >the manuals, decide that they were in over their heads, and just put it on >the shelf without even loading the software??? EEK! I purchased mine from a guy in Chicago who had a warehouse full of them, new in the box. I doubt that many individuals buy computers and put them away without using them (except for collectors), but many businesses like to have spares on hand. Additionally, a lot of new "obsolete" machines get written off and sold as scrap. I don't know, but I suspect that this was the story of my machines. If you would like to try the diagnostics without opening the software, let me know, and I'll get you a copy of the diagnostics disk (from release 3.51). -- Scott Ware s-ware(a)nwu.edu

28 years, 4 months

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New Definiton REQUIRED

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Okay.... recently, there's been lots of "off-topic" stuff going on here about computers... but I think that it's not "off-topic." In my mind, there is no doubt that the early mass-produced CD-ROM drives (not the origionals of 1984, but the ones that were made to be put into PCs, not servers) are classic componets, even though many are of this decade. In my opinion, the first 486 PCs (not servers) are classics... ones that are still used, but classics... even though most of 'em were made in like 1991-93... arguebly, early Pentiums (60, 66 Mhz) could be classics, as they steped into a new era (superscaler arceticture) for the mass-production market even though the Pentium chips wern't even on the market until mid-1993... if you remember, in the "welcome" message, it said that it was hard to state the definiton of a classic... but 10 years or older would do. I do not wish to offend the owner, but they are one person, and they can make mistakes... and together, as a group, the chances of making an accurate definiton are smaller with us. Possibly (out for MUCH revision...) is the definition "Any computer which has aged sufficently to be considered "outdated" by the computer market and has historic signifiance, OR is 10 years old or older." The one evedeint place that requires revsion is the "historical signifiacne" but I'm not sure how to include that while still aknowladgeing the presence of many of the best machines and componets that did indeed fail in the process... but at least Wang's did eventually fall.... I can't even rememeber all of the problems that they had... Openly, innocently, and waiting for improvement (on my quote, not the other stuff,), Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 4 months

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One from the 'believe it or not' file...

by carl.friend＠stoneweb.com

On Sun, 16 Nov 1997 08:40:43 -0800, Mr. Willing made the following comments: > And so, the dilemma... do I open the disks and crank this critter up? > Or just pack it all away as another classic 'artifact'? (or leave it > until I have a fair amount of time to spend with it) Pack it away, sealed up, and find another 3B1 to work on. I know a chap "down under" who has a LINC-8 in its original ply- wood crate stashed in a storage locker. The thing has not seen the light of day since it came off the line in 1968. It is one of 142 ever built. What do we do with that example? Leave it packed away? Fire it up for the edification of the locals (worldwide)? This is a knotty question, and one that harks somewhat to the same question asked by those who restore, and fly, antique aircraft. If we fly it, there's always the possibility that we might have a failure and the example (artifact) may be destroyed - if we don't, we're ignoring the essential beauty and function of the design. I, offhand, am tempted to say "park the craft" and find another one that's a bit more beat up. Restore that one, and drive it to your heart's content. But save the "factory original" one - like an old Tucker. ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 | |________________________________________________|_____________________|

28 years, 4 months

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Powells Bookstore (was: Anyone have a copy of this book) & VIC Kernel

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Thanks for the suggestions re: Powell's Bookstore. They had the book for $60, a $23 savings over Amazon. Granted, it is a used copy, but if my used books are a guide, I should get a quality book. Highly recommended store for tech books. I'd like to visit it someday. Also, for those interested, I finished my VIC-20 Kernel documentation project. Right now, I have completely recompilable source code for the Commodore VIC-20 kernel ROM. It took me over 2 years, part time, but it works. Anyone who is interested in finding out more, send me a private e-mail. Rich Cini/WUGNET <rcini(a)msn.com> - ClubWin! Charter Member (6) - MCP Windows 95/Networking

28 years, 4 months

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Classic Computer Rescue Squad

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> The most amazing thing is being in a real computer room (i.e. dozens <> of 14" drives) when the power suddenly goes *off*. The silence is <> astonishing. I was in a computer room at dec when a power failure hit. Imagine 30 RA81s and 82s plus two 8650s going silent. The lastime I heard that deafining silence the engine on my plane stopped in the air! It's not the loud but the sudden lack of it. Allison

28 years, 4 months

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Classic Computer Accumulation Squad

by carl.friend＠stoneweb.com

On Sun, 16 Nov 1997 11:59:57 -0600, "Uncle Roger" remarked in our collective presence: > As for me, there is currently [...] a Data General One & a Mac Plus > in the dining room, [and a list to be envious of if you collect > microcomputers!] It looks like it's confession time here. The "no computers in the dining room" is silly, at best. At this moment, I'm typing away on my Linux box in the dining-room looking at least 10 computers, not counting the micro I'm writing this on. There are another 4 in the kitchen behind me, two of which have seen power this weekend. (6 of the dining-room ones saw power over the weekend.) Rules are made to be broken. Computers, of course, fit anywhere you can find space for them. Even big ones. The bathroom, though, is straight out. Too humid. Before some wise-$@# decides to have at me for typing on a "modern" machine, let me remind him that even I have to pay the electric utility >from time to time. ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 | |________________________________________________|_____________________|

28 years, 4 months

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New Definiton REQUIRED

by carl.friend＠stoneweb.com

On Sun, 16 Nov 1997 19:26:14, Mr. Hotze remarked to us: > Possibly (out for MUCH revision...) is the definition "Any computer > which has aged sufficently to be considered "outdated" by the computer > market and has historic signifiance, OR is 10 years old or older." Given the marketplace today for "commodity" computers, what you buy today is, by definition, obsolete as there'll be something "better" along tomorrow. In a word - "why bother?". Age, also, alone, does not make a classic. I doubt that the standard run-of-the-mill '386 PeeCee will ever amount to anything except to, perhaps, archaeologists who dig one out of a landfill. There were too many of them made, and they were (are) regarded as "disposable". Look at the construction - modern machines aren't made to be repaired any more than a disposable cigarette lighter is made to be refilled. They burn out, you toss' em, and buy another one. Such was not always the case. Pre-PeeCee, machines were usually constructed very carefully. I don't doubt for a minute that engineers in the early '60s envisioned their creations happily hummimg away in the year 2000 - the boxes were built to last. Pop the hood on the latest thing to come down the 'pike - it's all ASICs, custom silicon, and surface mount stuff on wafer-thin boards. In short - not built to last. Nor is it designed to. That, of course, is just my opinion. And a cynical one, too. ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 | |________________________________________________|_____________________|

28 years, 4 months

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One from the 'believe it or not' file...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<67MB stock, and no expansion was possible 67MB (1024 cyl by 8 head) was <ever supported -- the users came up with ways to add a second and/or <larger hard disk, but most of the components needed have long been <discontinued. disk maximum 1024x8x17 is easily twice (140) the 67mb! A second drive should be a latter of connectors and cables, all still available. Shouldn't be that much majik. Allison

28 years, 4 months

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test-drb