- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by swebb＠tigerlabs.com

Just happened to come across an old post regarding the PCjr. Its interesting that people still occasionally talk about it. I designed the cartridge that you were talking about. It did reset the machine. This was done to insure that the CPU didnt go into the weeds because of the bus glitches. I (IBM got a patent on the little "L" reset tab on the card edge. There is also a mechanism where the cartridge actually replaced the on-board BIOS. ..gary

28 years, 1 month

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PC-jr adapter cable wirelists

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 742 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980222/196d3143/at…

28 years, 1 month

1
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Switch broken, help?

by william＠ans.net

While packing up two minis in racks today, I noticed that one of the switches on my PDP-8/S is broken. It appears that the little bits of plastic on the handle that snaps into the metal (trunnions?) have snapped off. I think I can repair it, but in case I can not, does anyone have a white DEC switch, as found on PDP-8/Ss? It looks to be the same shape as those found on PDP-8/Es. The other mini, an Interdata 14, needs lots of the caps for the incandescants, but finding any of those would be pure fantasy. Anyway, thank you. William Donzelli william(a)ans.net

28 years, 1 month

1
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Future Computing Trends

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<95 run? I mean, could a C64 or VAX have modern computer features? Well, VAX is a modern computer! It was/is 32bits when intels biggest was still 8bits. So happens that the version I use happen to be over ten years old but new ones are still being built. Now what features would a modern computer have that a 1986 Microvax-II/GPX doesn't? Windows(is 1280x1024 color enough), multiuser, networking and maybe even speed. If anything I'm still waiting for the modern X86 powered boxen to aquire some of the attributes of the VAX (they do but only when running NT or LINUX). Could a C64 do that... YES and NO. The video graphics included in the C64 is far more limited and the 8bit CPU would certainly impact speed but every modern feature is doable(and likely was originally done on the likes of C64s, trs80s, compucolor, ti99/4 Etal). There are people running web browswers, Email and IP on 6500 based machines. The latter proves that the answer is yes in that to the performance limits of older machines there is much that can be done. <BTW, what do you use the Vaxen and so on for? Mostly editing files and pretty printing them. It doesn't eat much more power than a PC so why not. The OS(VMS) allows 36 character file names (18.18), versions and journaling and deep heirarchal directories. The versions is nice when editing as foo_file.text;1 when edited becomes foo_file.text;2 and the ;1 version is still around is needed. Great for coding. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Future Computing Trends

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

What I wonder every so often is considering the examples set by classic computers, how quickly, efficiently, and stabley could Windows 95 run? I mean, could a C64 or VAX have modern computer features? BTW, what do you use the Vaxen and so on for? > >Hummmphf! > >I must be real retro then...486DX2/50, 8mb ram, 516mb disk, 1x cdrom, >33.5 modem and no sound capability. > >I run Gcadd6, PADS, WP5.0 and 6.0 dos, winders3.1. Almost a classic >and it does everything I need it to do and adaquately fast. > >BUT... My s100 z80 crate still sees several hours a day as do my PDP-11s >and the vaxen that always has one up full time. All provide useful >capability and often surprizing speed when compared to the new GUI. > >Allison > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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Idling Kaypro II... here's what you do.

by ataridude＠hotmail.com

If I know the problem with your Kaypro II, the red light by the disk drives does not light up when it says "Please insert disk into Disk A". I don't know why it happens, but a couple swift bashes on the top of the computer will get the light on, and the drive will read the disk. Sometimes it take 8-10 hard pounds on the top, but the light should go on. I've been punching the top of my Kaypro II for over ten years, and have caused no other problems by doing so. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

1
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Future Computing Trends

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Hummmphf! I must be real retro then...486DX2/50, 8mb ram, 516mb disk, 1x cdrom, 33.5 modem and no sound capability. I run Gcadd6, PADS, WP5.0 and 6.0 dos, winders3.1. Almost a classic and it does everything I need it to do and adaquately fast. BUT... My s100 z80 crate still sees several hours a day as do my PDP-11s and the vaxen that always has one up full time. All provide useful capability and often surprizing speed when compared to the new GUI. Allison

28 years, 1 month

1
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Well, since I opened my mouth...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I have FTP working... If you have interesting PDP-10 stuff, you can FTP it up to 209.174.127.164 in /pub/pdp10. I have about 1.2GB to burn. I'm still working my way up through DEC breauocracy to get permission to post my KA-10 docs. -------

28 years, 1 month

3
4
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NorthStar Advantage Question

by wheagy＠erols.com

I just bought a Northstar Advantage. I plugged it in and turned it on. It ran fine for about 5 minutes after which it locked up. I pressed the reset button, but nothing happened. So, I opened the case and found a length of wire coming off of the floppy drive rack. It appears to be grounded to the rack. A large resistor is in series with teh wire and the other end was floating free. Does anyone know where this wire might connect? It was sliding around on the motherboard, I hope it didn't short anything. Thanks...Win -- Win Heagy wheagy(a)erols.com

28 years, 1 month

3
3
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IBM PC Xenix

by djenner＠halcyon.com

I just got a copy of IBM PC Xenix (MS's Xenix as distributed by IBM). It is the Base Operating System V1.00 (1984), and it runs on the PC/AT. There are two additional products in the IBM distribution: Software Development System Text Formatting System If anyone has any of these two additional components and would like to discuss giving/selling/trading, I would greatly appreciate hearing. Thanks, Dave

28 years, 1 month

1
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Commodore Ramblings

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

From: "Jeff Kaneko" <Jeff.Kaneko(a)ifrsys.com> Subject: RE: IEEE-488 and Commodore (was: GP-IB) >Pardon me if I ask a stupid question, but If they were going to >implement a high-speed serial bus for the C64/VIC/1541's, why would >they use a device that was primarily designed for PARALLEL >operation? For one thing Commodore OWNED MOS Technologies (one of Tramiels more shrewder decisions after getting burned in the pocket calculator wars by their then calculator chip supplier, Texas Instruments). So all of MOSs chips were dirt cheap to Commodore. The 6520/6522 played multiple roles in the PET/VIC/64 handling the keyboard, parallel port, etc. also the PET's parallel user port was very popular among the experimenters and having it on the VIC and 64 added to it's appeal (besides being cheap and in COLOR with SOUND!) >It seems that a 6850/6851 ACIA would have been much more appropriate, >and would have not been such a software mess. If that were the case it would be as easy to interface as an ATARI... yuk. I am glad, with those two CIAs you can hook just about anything to the computer (easily given the parallel port). If it didn't it may have fared worse than thier competition. 00100010100100100101110010010010010010010010010010010010010 From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> Subject: RE: IEEE-488 and Commodore (was: GP-IB) >If computer holy war zealots knew the story behind this Commodore debacle >back in the 80's when the flames were at their highest temperatures, the >anti-C64 contingent would have had a field day. They did, ever hear the term "the lumbering hippo", that was a nickname many gave the 1541 disk drive... >Oh well, you gotta love it. >PS. So the Commodore did suck after all ;) You forget that the VIC and 64 had an advantage over the competition, performance for a very low price. (albiet slower than necessary). Also the 64 had other merits such as its graphics ability and incredible sound... Every one rips the Commodores, but you have to remwmber who was posting profits and who was going bankrupt in the 80s... the nineties are a different matter I'm afraid.. :( 00100010100100100101110010010010010010010010010010010010010 From: Cord Coslor <archive(a)navix.net> Subject: Weekend finds! (CPU's, Printers, Disk Drives, Software, etc.!!) >*Commodore 128D computer. Mint condition CPU. No monitor, disk drives, >cables, etc. What does it take... also what type of keyboard does it >use? Disk drive is built-in, uses either a composite or split-composite (Svideo) for the 40 column mode and a TTL RGBI for the 80 column mode. Can run in three modes, Commodore 64 Emulation (99.94% bug free...), expanded '128' mode some 64 likeness but offers better BASIC and speed as well as access to 80 column output, and last but not least, CP/M mode runs latter CP/M versions and the built-in drive can read a variety of forigen CP/M format disks... The keyboard is a non-ascii encoded keyboard that is used on the Commodore 128. The D version is the same but in a separate unit and a coiled cable. >*Imagewriter // printer for Apple Very fast, even for today, can do multi-part and does COLOR! Good utility printer, downside is that it uses a serial (RS-422) interface. Still supported on Macs. >*Commodore MPS 802 Decent text output (8-pin) but only 'one-character programmable graphics'. (there were programs that would do hi-res dumps by constantly redefining that character and reprinting it on the same line till it was complete, a hi-res page would take HOURS!!!) >*Vic 1525 Graphic Printer (note, 1525 uses THIN paper not 9 1/2" form feed, a misunderstanding in the design specs, they thought 8 1/2" wide WITH the carrier.) yawn... either for printing speed or 7-pin graphics printing matrix - or both... The 7-pin 1525 printhead design set back the printer industry for a couple years with cheap parallel versions like the Shiekosha and Gorilla Banana. >*KoalaPad. I think for the Commodore computer. Does anyone have some >more info on this? Maybe some software? Should work on the Commodore VIC-20/64/128 and Atari Computers. My favorite Koalapad program is Dancing Bear for the VIC-20 (64 version sucks) It's claim to fame though is Koala Paint which defined the multi-color graphics file format standard for the 64. >*Commodore Model 1200 Model #1670 Very nice 1200 baud direct connect modem can be used on the VIC, 64, 128, and Plus/4 (though on the +4 you have to flip one switch or cut a trace depending on the modem version) Uses Hayes type modem commands. >*MasterType cart for the C-64 I bought that recently, a pretty cool typing aid! >*Below the Root (???) game copy on disk for the Commodore 64. IMHO one of THE BEST 64 games made, a graphics adventure with a solid story that is non-violent, a wonderful game for the kids!!!! Based on the Below the Root book triligy by Zylpha Keatly Snyder. >*Aztec game original box, manual, and game disk for the Apple/Commodore. Another quality Graphics Adventure, keep it for your library. Follow in the footsteps of the missing Professor Forrester looking for Aztec treasures. >*Choplifter by Broderbund orginal game disk for the Apple (?) A computer-to-videogame classic on it's original platform. >* Vic-20 cartridges: Pin Ball, Omega Race, Jupiter Lander, Gorf, Radar >Rat Race, Raid on Fort Knox, Avenger, Poker, Cosmic Cruncher, and Mole >Attack In 8 cartridge storace holder. There are some great ones: Omega Race (THE BEST translation I've seen is the VIC-20 one), Radar Rat Race (like arcade Rally-X, the 64 version is just a lame port of this fine VIC version), Cosmic Cruncher (what can I say it's a Pac-Man variant with the Commodore logo as the main character! COOL!), Mole Attack (a fun one for the 'little kids' bonk the moles on the head, uses keyboard) The rest are pretty good too... >Was it all worth my $150. :-) VERY MUCH SO, take the stuff you don't want to VCF 2.0 and you will make your money back I'm sure... (even at reasonable prices) 00100010100100100101110010010010010010010010010010010010010 From: "kroma" <kroma(a)worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: C64 Modem issue >I have a C-64c and a Commodore brand 1200 modem. Since I still haven't had >a chance to resolve the problem with my 1541 disk drive, I'd like to >explore using the modem a bit. Can it be done in BASIC? Meaning, can I >issue certain BASIC commands to init the modem and dial out? It's been a >while since I've messed with any Commie machine, and when I did, I couldn't >afford the "luxury" of a 1200 baud modem. This may be something simple, and >I'd appreciate any help, even a pointer to info on the internet. The Modem 1200 uses a standard Hayes command set fortunately. 10 open 2,2,3,chr$(8)+chr$(0) 20 get a$:ifa$="" goto40 30 print#2,a$; 40 get#2,a$:print a$;:goto 20 I THINK that will give you enough to use the modem at 1200baud-8/n/1... There was a program in an issue of BBS magazine that also supported X-Modem downloading (in BASIC!), I'll try to find it. 00100010100100100101110010010010010010010010010010010010010 Subject: Re: GP-IB (was Re: Atari 8-bit Find) At 12:09 AM 2/18/98 -0500, you wrote: >At 08:52 PM 2/17/98 -0600, you wrote: > >>It's used by: >> >>Commodore Pets << *** capitalize PET, it is an acronym! *** >>GRiD Compass >>HP 3000 >>HP 1000 (I think) > >On a side note, the GRiD 15xx series also had an add-in pod that supported >GPIB.... And for only a few hundred bucks you can buy a NEW IEEE-488 interface card for your IBM or compatible PC... It is used ALOT in scientific/electronic measuring devices, as well as plotters (HP mostly, no wonder...) -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our Commodore 64 BBS (Silicon Realms 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 1 month

9
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OOPs AT&Ts

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-02-20 01:35:57 EST, you write: << PS/2e doesn't have a standard floppy drive connector nor does it have any free non-PCMCIA slots (it has one slot that looks like MCA, and has what looks like a 16-bit ISA riser card plugged into it, which then has the 4-slot PCMCIA box plugged into it!). I don't think there's another machine quite like it. >> the 9533 has a standard 16bit isa slot, but the pcmcia adaptor fits there. you can remove the adaptor though.

28 years, 1 month

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OOPs AT&Ts

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-02-20 01:24:27 EST, Jason D put forth: << But the latest MCA based machine is currently in production are 700 series these days. Real reliable machine days in and out without >> IBM discontinued MCA ~2 years ago. it's all pci/isa now to comply with that pathetic pc97 specification. risc boxes still use MCA. someone at work gave me a bunch of old software and 5.25 disks including a book on MCA explaining why it was superior to the isa bus machines. david

28 years, 1 month

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New Hampshire Computer Flea Market

by nhdirect＠tiac.net

New Hampshire Computer Flea Market ?Bring your unwanted computer items to sell, and/or buy at bargain prices? Someone may be looking for the computer hardware and software that you no longer use. Sell those items at the Computer Flea Market on Sunday March 8 from 9 Am to 2 PM, at Daniels Hall, Rt 4, Nottingham, NH. This is an excellent opportunity to turn your unwanted computer hardware & software, MAC or PC, games, etc., into cash, or purchase at bargain prices. Also just come to swap ideas with other local computer users. Non-dealers - bring whatever you want to sell - no charge for display space. Dealers are also welcome ($20.00 table charge, electricity included). Admission for adults is $5.00. Free admission for children under 12. Members of local computer groups receive $1.00 off of admission. Join us at the flea market on the 2nd Sunday of each month starting March 8. Food & drink are available. Dealers should reserve display space by e-mailing nhdirect(a)tiac.net or calling 603 942-8525. Visit the Computer Flea Market web page at: http://www.tiac.net/users/nhdirect/flea.html Sponsored by S&D Associates

28 years, 1 month

1
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Future Computing Trends

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

What is QDSS? Wait, let me guess...Quick Display SchlutzeStaffen? Quantum Display Sub System? OK, I give up! What is it? > >[We don't need no steenking displays!] > >Ehehe... I expected a remark about QDSS or something here... >------- > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

2
1
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Modern Minimalism (Was: Future Computing Trends)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Well, I can't download anything right now, but another small thing like that is the NeoDesktop at www.newdealinc.com. It seems to descend from GEOS. It won't fit on a floppy, but is cool anyway. >To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Subject: Modern Minimalism (Was: Future Computing Trends) > >At 02:46 PM 2/20/98 PST, you wrote: > >>and ran it fine when it had 8MB. Visual Basic and IE4 (I don't use >>it regulary, Opera at www.operasoftware.com is much better: 1MB >>download!) > >If you think that's cool, you need to check out what they are doing with QNX: > >http://www.qnx.com/iat/createdemo.html > >QNX is a very small micro-kernel OS that has the look of Windows 95, has >builtin TCP/IP networking, a notepad, a few other little doodads, and to >top it off, a fully functional HTML 3.2 compliant web browser. Also >supports graphics modes up to 1024x768 in millions of colors. > >Okay, not amazing enough for you already? How about if I told you it all >ran off a 1.44mb floppy disk? Hmmmm? :) > >Everyone owes to themselves to go grab this FREE (yes, FREE) OS and try it >for themselves. > > >-John Higginbotham- >-limbo.netpath.net- > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

1
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Future Computing Trends

by dastar＠wco.com

Here's an interesting article from Byte magazine: http://www.byte.com/art/9802/sec5/art1.htm It talks about how computers are becoming obsolete the day you buy them due to all the crazy new technologies being released into the market. My observation is that anyone who chases technology and is always upgrading to the latest and greatest is always going to have an "obsolete" computer. The situation is not as bad as the article makes it out to be, not that the article is actually saying the speed of new technology introductions is a problem. But if people could be satisfied with what they have on their desk, this issue of obsolescense would not be an issue at all. In 1995 I bought a Pentium-90 system which I clocked up to 100Mhz. It came with Windows 3.1 but I quickly upgraded to Win95. It originally had 16MB RAM (which I've since upgraded to 32M) and a 1GB HD. It has a 5.25" and 3.5" floppy and a CD-ROM drive. I'll soon be adding another 540MB HD I have lying around spare, and then a 1.7GB SCSI HD as soon as I find a SCSI cable. It's slow by today's standard, but the damn thing works. I use an old version of Microsoft Works (3.0) for my word processing and spread sheeting; some people haven't even heard of Works! They only know Word. But Works loads instantly, whereas Word takes it seems forever to load which is why I don't use it. Plus its bloated and drags my system down. Which brings me to my point. The computers we collect are still so damn useful! And this is not a new argument, but even though these old machines don't have SVGA and EDO RAM and Ultra-SCSI and other new-fangled fanciness, they still work! They can still process words, and crunch numbers and hold information. And best of all, they play games MUCH more fun than the current cache of cathartic creations; DOOM was novel when I first played it, but every other incantation after it (DOOM II, QUAKE, DUKE NUKEM, ETC) is the same game with a different "scenario" and graphics, and that damn bobbing up and down makes me sick anyway! Give me Choplifter, Rescue Raiders or Dino Eggs any day! If you read the article carefully it gives a glimpse of the types of machines that may be collectible in ten years or so. The article proposes the dawn of the age of the "disposable" computer. This is totally ridiculous. I cannot even relate to that mode of thinking. But on the positive side, it means disgustingly cheap (and probably FREE) computers 10, 5, even 1(!) year(s) from now. More cheap PCs for us to run Linux on! (Imagine having your own DLA [Distributed Linux Array] consisting of 16 or more 300Mhz Pentium II PC, alls for just a song! You could break government encryption with something like that :) People these days with their 333Mhz Pentiums with 128MB RAM and 4GB harddrives should shut the hell up and be happy. Long live "obsolete" computers. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!

28 years, 1 month

2
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Chesapeake Bay Area vintage computer hackers wanted

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Sam has inspired me to once again ask for anyone interested in the preservation and maintenance of old computer equipment and history of the same to contact me at email: marty(a)itgonline.com I appreciate the response I've received so far. Most responses have been from North Carolina and Pennsylvania, only two from the DC metro area. Hopefully we can get some activities going. Thanks- Marty Mintzell

28 years, 1 month

1
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Found a decent use for a PC...

by jfoust＠threedee.com

"Daniel A. Seagraves" <DSEAGRAV(a)toad.xkl.com> wrote: >Remeber when I said today was class pictures? I'll be the one in the >decsystem-10 shirt... :) Daniel, you're just so darn cute. I know what you're up to: you're trying to get these old greybeard DEC collectors to put you in their will - sheesh, toad.xkl.com - Paul Allen included! :-) - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 1 month

2
1
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Info on Datanumerics

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I've never heard of a Datanumerics DL8A but judging from the description would jump on it. Sounds intriquing to me. Ask the seller what price would make them happy. You might be pleasantly surprised. On several occasions when I have asked this question I've been given the equipment free or at a nominal cost. Anyway, it sounds too worthy to be passed up. If you don't want it I certainly do. Marty Mintzell ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Info on Datanumerics Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 2/20/98 9:17 AM I've been offered the following Datanumerics DL8A. It is 8080 based, comes in a 19" rack mount case, has 4k 600ns ram, 1 current loop (I think) port, and obviously a full front panel. I'm curious if anyone can provide any more information about this machine. Obviously its an early one, but I couldn't find any mention of it on the 'web. Any suggestions as to scarcity and fair price would be welcome, too. Cheers Andrew ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9g for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Feb20.091753.1767.27868; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:17:54 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id GAA25265; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 06:08:14 -0800 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id GAA21898 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 06:08:06 -0800 Received: from ren.globecomm.net (ren.globecomm.net [207.51.48.3]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id GAA09073 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 06:08:03 -0800 Received: from nostromo (modem028.ts52.comcen.com.au [203.56.244.28]) by ren.globecomm.net (8.8.8/8.8.0) with SMTP id JAA02321 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:08:01 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <001201bd3e08$d1aa47a0$1cf438cb@nostromo> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 01:06:50 +1100 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Andrew Davie" <adavie(a)mad.scientist.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Info on Datanumerics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-To: <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

28 years, 1 month

1
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Ahoy there all you Bay Area, CA locals

by dastar＠wco.com

This is to all Bay Area, Ca locals... I'd like to start a vintage computer hackers group that would cover all of the Bay Area. This will be open to anyone interested in our hobby. Please e-mail me so that I can add your address to the mailing list. Even if I already know you (ie. Frank, Doug, Paul, Roger, etc.) please send me an e-mail so that I have your most current address. I'll start filling you in with the details once I've collected everyone's address. Thanks! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!

28 years, 1 month

1
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Apple //gs boot problem

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 17:58:47 +0100 (BST), Phil Beesley <pb14(a)leicester.ac.uk> wrote: >I think that you need to do a low level format on the IIGS to remove >any hidden Macintosh partitioning data from the disk. You should be >able to use this using the utilities on the GS/OS 6.0.1 installation >disks. Formatting from the GS/OS Finder may not be sufficient. >Phil I finally got it working properly. I copied the GS disk utility to another floppy and booted from it. I then totally wiped the disk and started >from scratch. There must have been, as you said, some leftover info from the old Mac that was attached to it. Thanks everyone for your help. ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking

28 years, 1 month

1
0
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OOPs AT&Ts

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Captain Napalm <spc(a)armigeron.com> wrote: > I attended an auction at Florida Atlantic University last year, hoping to >pick up some nice computer equipment. There were a stack of HPs (68k based >ones) for sale (that I had actually used years before at the university) in >one pallet, the monitors were in another, and the keyboards in yet a third >(my first complaint about the auction - the people running it didn't know >the first thing about anything they were selling). Sounds like the University of Wisconsin-Madison surplus sale, too. In their zeal to sell, they separate all the systems: main units over here, keyboards in that pile, monitors over there, software and docs to the wind. So stupid. It if looks like a PC, it must be a PC. And then the stuff they throw out because they don't understand it... one day I picked up several $1500 video printers in the dumpster, still working. A bunch of janitors promoted by the Peter Principle. And this is just the dregs! So much property simply disappears before it runs through the cloaca of UW-Surplus. My tax dollars at work. State and UW employees get in early, too. Gads. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 1 month

1
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Info on Datanumerics

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

I've been offered the following Datanumerics DL8A. It is 8080 based, comes in a 19" rack mount case, has 4k 600ns ram, 1 current loop (I think) port, and obviously a full front panel. I'm curious if anyone can provide any more information about this machine. Obviously its an early one, but I couldn't find any mention of it on the 'web. Any suggestions as to scarcity and fair price would be welcome, too. Cheers Andrew

28 years, 1 month

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SF BAY GUARDIAN : GUARDAIN GUIDES : SUPERLISTS

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

Check out this URL if you're in San Francisco; it's a list of thrift stores in the City. http://www.sfbayguardian.com/GuardianGuides/Superlists/SFthriftstores.html --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

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LCD life

by manney＠nwohio.com

Yes, I checked. It is a multispeed. One of these days, when I have some time (rofl) I'll take it apart and see if I can figure out what's wrong with the HDD, which reports a 1701. One hopes these used a standard HDD? > Is that Nec a MultiSpeed? I have an older model without the backlight > and no hard drive. > > Joe

28 years, 1 month

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Zenith Z-433+ Memory Problem

by plogan＠scsn.net

To whom it may concern: I have a Zenith Z-433+ and recently upgraded memory to 16MB. I am currently getting an error when I boot which says 'memory not configured correctly'. How do I get to CMOS (setup)? How do I correct error in CMOS? Thank-you in advance> Phil Logan plogan(a)scsn.net

28 years, 1 month

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QUESTION: can x86 Linux write ATARI TOS boot image?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 2/19/98 9:23:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com writes: << I'm sure there must be some places doing mail order, however, it seems most places can't even get DD 3.5" disks, and a lot of the Amiga and Atari dealers are selling used ones. Now might be a good time to stock up on a supply of HD floppies, especially 5.25" ones! >> i think the overrated demise of 5.25 disks is way too premature. wally world (walmart) still sells 5.25 disks, in both high and low density and at work, i was looking through a catalog someone brought to work, and saw low density 5.25 disks for 19cents in lots of 100. i wouldnt worry about it yet. david

28 years, 1 month

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QUESTION: can x86 Linux write ATARI TOS boot image?

by jmg＠iac.net

I'm about to pick up an ATARI with 5 1/4" 1050 floppt drive, but it will lack an OS and software. Can I use a standard DD 5 1/4" drive (say an old shugart with the BIOS set to 360K) and use dd to write an ATARI boot image file to this drive? I don't see why not, but I'm not certain if the ATARI drives used some pecular hardware, like the old mac 400k/800k variable speed drive incompatabilities. If so, does anyone have a boot/OS image for this thing? And where do I find old DD floppies these days? Thanks! J. Maynard Gelinas

28 years, 1 month

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Apple //gs Boot sequence

by adept＠mcs.com

I just picked up a //gs on the cheap but never was much of an Apple guy. The machine appears to have some sort of problem (what is what I am trying to determine). When the machine is powered, it gives a tone sort of like a "tong", then it polls the floppy and repeats the tone when it is finished. No video appears on the screen at any time. Anybody have hints or foreknowledge? ;) Cheers, Dan

28 years, 1 month

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Zenith Z-433+ Memory problem

by plogan＠scsn.net

To whom it may concern: I have a Zenith Z-433+ and recently upgraded memory to 16MB. I am currently getting an error when I boot which says 'memory not configured correctly'. How do I get to CMOS (setup)? How do I correct error in CMOS? Thank-you in advance> Phil Logan plogan(a)scsn.net

28 years, 1 month

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OOPs AT&Ts

by Marty＠itgonline.com

If you decide to buy an old IBM PS/2 and need tech support you can get info from IBM's web site. I picked up a PS/2 Model 60 286 based pc last year (which I used as barter for a complete IBM 16-64K PC and Victor 9000 from a furniture dealer who wanted a word processor). The system wouldn't boot due to a spent cmos battery so after replacing the battery I found the reference (setup) diskette at IBM's web site, downloaded it to a 3 1/2" floppy and was done with it. Go to ibm.com/support and search under ps/2. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: OOPs AT&Ts Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 2/19/98 3:15 PM > At 08:54 PM 2/18/98 +0000, you wrote: > >> At 11:11 PM 2/15/98 +0000, you wrote: > > > >> >Jason D. > >> > >> Still haven't been back to the place that had the pile of them. There > >> were bunches at the hamfest though. Most were $75 to $100 (asking price). > > > >Joe, > > > >Ouch! > > > >What was the usual PS/2 models with this inflated asking prices > >unless it has special reason for this? > > > >Let us know after thru these piles anyway. > > > >Thanks! > > > >Jason D. > > > > The owner is a typical surplus store owner. He buys the stuff for $30 > a pallet load (20 to 30 machines), but wants an arm and a leg for each one. > He'll scrap the stuff before selling it cheap. I went back down there > yesterday to look at some HP's and found out he had pulled ALL the boards > out of them and was still wanting $100 each for the empty boxes and power > supplys. The owner was acting like a jerk so I didn't even ask about the > PS-2s. I don't think they're anything special about the PS-2s but I'm not > very familar with them so I don't know for sure. Hee hee, I agree with you, that guy is jerk! :) Well, so good luck with alterative place anyway and see how things goes. What do you mean by what do you not familiar with PS-2s? I could help you to ID? Jason D. > > Joe > email: jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9g for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Feb19.151548.1767.27718; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 15:15:49 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id KAA18771; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:57:32 -0800 Received: from mxu3.u.washington.edu (mxu3.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.7]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id KAA39528 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:57:26 -0800 Received: from mail.cgocable.net (mail.cgocable.net [24.226.1.11]) by mxu3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id KAA13992 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:57:24 -0800 Received: from jpero.cgo.wave.ca (cgowave-33-17.cgocable.net [24.226.33.17]) by mail.cgocable.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA27211 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:57:25 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199802191857.NAA27211(a)mail.cgocable.net> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:03:56 +0000 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: OOPs AT&Ts In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980219072323.4837c97c(a)intellistar.net> References: <199802190148.UAA01293(a)mail.cgocable.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

28 years, 1 month

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CPT 8525... what is it?

by rws＠ais.net

Hi everybody- I've gotten another oddball computing object that I have no information on. (like the Diablo 1340 hardcopy terminal I posted about last week.) I've found a CPT 8525 system (out in the rain, but it doesn't look too bad). It has an internal monitor, portrait orientation, and two half-height 8" floppy drives. The keyboard is huge, with a whole section of what appear to be word-processing-related keys. Opening the case (two quarter-turn screws) reveals a somewhat modular layout. There are 4 cards in a 5-slot cardcage: (1) 1771-based floppy controller, (2) 8080A-based CPU, (3) unknown, probably I/O, and (4) 128k x 9 RAM (in 4116's). The floppy drives are held in by thumbscrews. Two more bolts and the top comes off. From here the CRT is visible. The power supply is underneath the whole thing, and the keyboard connects through heavily shielded ribbon cable. Right now I'm waiting for it to dry out before I fire it up. If anybody knows anything about this thing (or has even heard of it), I'd appreciate the help. I also picked up a (wet) TI-99/4A expansion chassis and Panasonic KX-D4910 portable data terminal with acoustic coupler or direct-connect modem and thermal printer. Richard Schauer rws(a)ais.net

28 years, 1 month

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This is an RD54, right?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I have here a Maxtor XT-2190. That is an RD54, right? I have a uVAX 2000 I'd like to drop it in, but I can't get it to work, it doesn't want to acknowledge the controller. It thinks it's drive 1, and if I try to lowlevel format the drive at ID 1, it fails on the Mbb check. Ideas? The computer did have an RD53 in it, that failed (bad sectors). Failing that, can I put an ST251 or ST220 in there, hang a SCSI harddisk >from the SCSI port, and boot the ST and mount /usr on the SCSI device? I plan on running NetBSD on here. -------

28 years, 1 month

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kayrpo 10 computers

by david-fisc.king＠fmr.com

You mentioned in a new aritcle that you knew someone who wanted to git rid of some Kaypro 10 computers. Do you have any more information? Thanks.

28 years, 1 month

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Here's another 11/23+ question...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From: "Daniel A. Seagraves" <DSEAGRAV(a)toad.xkl.com> < <How do I enable the console halt-on-break? Is there a switch on the CPU <for that? It's the M8189 11/23+ CPU. <------- Remove the wire or jumper from J14. J14 is in the row of pins roughly on the centerline of the board and is the fourth up from the card edge fingers (the pin closest is J10). Allison

28 years, 1 month

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IEEE-488 and Commodore (was: GP-IB)

by jfoust＠threedee.com

From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote: >They did, ever hear the term "the lumbering hippo", that was a nickname >many gave the 1541 disk drive... Dumpster diving at the then-recently closed offices of Amiga Corp. in Los Gatos, I found several disassembled 1541s. Later I talked to the engineer who'd thrown them out, and he described the 1541 as the "best computer that CBM ever made." :-) I distinctly remember a 1541-to-1541 disk copy taking about 40 minutes when I first got my C-64, but later "fast loaders" reduced that. The inane serial-to-parallel-to-serial business was no doubt due to a desire to get things done quickly and with the least disruption of existing ROM code and known-working applications migrating from the PET to the VIC-20 and C-64. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 1 month

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Subject: Re: Apple //gs boot problem

by pb14＠leicester.ac.uk

On 18 Feb 98 at 18:24, Richard A. Cini wrote: > First, I know that this may sound silly, but where is the RESET key on the > GS? My system came with what looks to be a Mac ADB keyboard. Is the RESET > key the power key along the top, above the number keys? Lots but not all Apple ADB keyboards work with the IIGS; if a keyboard works, the Reset key will be the one somehwere at the top of the board with the left pointing arrow icon. Anyway, it's the same one that you'd use to start up a Mac with soft-power on. > Back to the drive. I initialized the drive from within the GS/OS Finder > (using the Disk | Initialize menu item). I did not specifically partition > the disk, though. If you use the Apple Disk utility (that's probably not the > exact name) that comes on the GS/OS disks, it shows no partitions, although > it identifies the drive as ProDos. > > How exactly should I take to get this to work properly? I'm obviously > missing a step somewhere. I think that you need to do a low level format on the IIGS to remove any hidden Macintosh partitioning data from the disk. You should be able to use this using the utilities on the GS/OS 6.0.1 installation disks. Formatting from the GS/OS Finder may not be sufficient. Phil ************************************************************** Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport University of Leicester Tel (0)116 252-2231 E-Mail pb14(a)le.ac.uk

28 years, 1 month

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Commodore Ramblings

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

>> They did, ever hear the term "the lumbering hippo", that was a nickname >> many gave the 1541 disk drive... I didn't think it was that slow >Well, I always knew the 1541 drive sucked egregiously, speed wise. I >mean, it was as bad as a cassette player...what was the point? Until fast >loaders came along. They made the 1541 as fast as any Apple drive with a >fast DOS. Then it was passable. > >But what was very cool about the 1541, I later learned, was that it had >its own processor, and that you could upload a program into two drives, >hook them to each other and have them copy disks automatically...very >cool. Then when my friend gave me the program that played Daisy on the >1541 (by this time I had my own C64) I was dazzled. I wrote a similar >program for the Apple Disk ][ but the farts and grunts it made were hardly >comparable to the violin-like sqeaks that emanated from the 1541. Very >cool. I can't stay up late with an Apple //c, because it makes that awful noise when trying to read a nonexistent disk! >> >> >PS. So the Commodore did suck after all ;) It did, but I like it sooo much more than the Apple II, which is just plain boring >> performance for a very low price. (albiet slower than necessary). Also >> the 64 had other merits such as its graphics ability and incredible >> sound... Every one rips the Commodores, but you have to remwmber who >> was posting profits and who was going bankrupt in the 80s... the >> nineties are a different matter I'm afraid.. :( Exactly >After I got over the computer-cock-war syndrome I did come to realize what >a cool machine the C64 was. I actually started to program on it and >started experimenting with the sound. It could make the wildest sounds. >I wanted to port the Apple ROM Monitor to the C64 so that I'd have a >decent Monitor with which to assemble machine code, but alas my C64 died >on the carpet in front of my TV (thus beginning the C64 curse I've fallen >victim to), I guess from static electricity. They just didn't make C64's >to last I'm afraid. Thus my C64 programming soire was cut short. I killed my C64 by trying to add a reset switch and attaching the wire to the wrong power terminal. BTW, what IS the command to get into Apple's monitor from DOS? I always forget... > >Ok, now that is just plain lame. Who the hell designs a printer and >forgets about the tractor feed bands? Don't forget some certain operating systems that are self incompatible ;-P > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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GP-IB (was Re: Atari 8-bit Find)

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 08:52 PM 2/17/98 -0600, you wrote: >It's used by: > >Commodore Pets >GRiD Compass >HP 3000 >HP 1000 (I think) On a side note, the GRiD 15xx series also had an add-in pod that supported GPIB. Fits in the battery compartment, passthrough for external power. Speaking of which, anyone got any GRiD 15xx PODs they want to get rid of? Also am still looking for an external floppy for my GRiD 1535exp (ooh, I shouldn't have said that: It was made in 1989! Forget I said anything, I'll just bring it up next year!) -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 1 month

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Searching for old HPs

by joel.vedrenne＠mail.dotcom.fr

Hello, for my personnal collection I'm searching for HP-16C, 33C, 34C, 67, and/or 71B or all others HPs. I have too a HP-41CX to swap for another machine. Please respond me by mail. Thx. Joel.

28 years, 1 month

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Found a decent use for a PC...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

This is downright bad... :) Today is class pictures. A few days ago, my parents (Remeber that thread?) decided they wanted, of all things, a computer. My stepdad decided to see for himself what was available online, rather than just listen to the TV. (I think it's because he figured out he can automate a lot of his business [Running a motorcycle shop] on it...) Anyway, they got a nice Pentium, with a color printer and a scanner, and so they asked me to edit a few images for them. So, we scan in his 2 grandsons, and a volkswagen bug, and combined the 2 - they were dazzled. A few more interesting tricks - aged a picture of them in front of an old car, etc. Anyway, they like the picture of the volkswagen so much, they bought T-shirt transfer papers to print on. So, I did that... I also got some time to play with said paper myself last night... Remeber when I said today was class pictures? I'll be the one in the decsystem-10 shirt... :) I conjured up a T-shirt for myself! It has the decsystem-10 logo, stolen >from the front of a TOPS-10 user manual, and underneath that is says "If it's not 36 bits, you're not playing a full DEC." (I know there should be a with in there, but there was no room on the xfer sheet) -------

28 years, 1 month

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Subject: Re: I got an Apple ProFile hard drive.

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Filing the graphite slug on the ground worked like a charm. Thanks! Also looking at the drive, it seems that the drive has an Apple-custom logic board. There's probably no chance that the interface to the internal controller card is standard. Bummer. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 1 month

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Apple //gs boot problem

by kroma＠worldnet.att.net

> First, I know that this may sound silly, but where is the RESET key on the >GS? My system came with what looks to be a Mac ADB keyboard. Is the RESET >key the power key along the top, above the number keys? > That's the standard GS keyboard. I don't believe that true Mac keyboards include a Reset key. Yes, the key above the numbers is the Reset key. One other tidbit, the Option key can be used is also the solid-apple key. -- Kirk

28 years, 1 month

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Junk nite

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I used to service the AT&T 6300 which was an Olivetti machine. The keyboard used a DB-9 connector and the power supply was unconventional using spade lugs to secure the power cables. Does this sound like your machine? ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Junk nite Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 2/19/98 8:17 AM At 08:24 18/02/98 +1100, you wrote: >Just curious if I should really keep this rather well designed computer >Its an "Olivetti M24 Personal Computer". Yes, the design was "original" (=completely different) for a X86-flavour based machine;specially inside where the layout is spread on three boards:CPU, VIDEO, 8 bit ISA.(have you openened it yet?) Do you have the original keyboard also? > I'd never seen an Olivetti before, which is why I saved it from the scap heap. Now is >it scarce or nice enough to attempt to get running? It depends on what you are looking for? As "collectible" can be interesting because of its early solutions on monitor power supply (1 plug with signal and DC-PS toghether) and its design. Otherwise is another obsolete PC as many other of that age. Ciao §§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§ § Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONE § § AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY § § Pager:DTMF PHONES=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* § § where*=asterisk key | help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html § § e-mail=chemif(a)mbox.queen.it § §§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§ ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9g for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Feb19.081721.1767.27610; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:17:22 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id FAA08510; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 05:14:26 -0800 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id FAA29306 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 05:13:47 -0800 Received: from mbox.queen.it (mbox.queen.it [195.223.140.7]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id FAA28895 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 05:13:39 -0800 Received: from async23-fo.queen.it (async23-fo.queen.it [194.184.164.33]) by mbox.queen.it (8.8.7/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA02799 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:17:15 +0100 Message-Id: <199802191317.OAA02799(a)mbox.queen.it> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:17:15 +0100 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: RICCARDO <chemif(a)mbox.queen.it> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Junk nite Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Sender: chemif(a)mbox.queen.it X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

28 years, 1 month

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Commodore tape and disk speed (was: Commodore Ramblings)

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

A friend and I wrote a game for 6502 machines. Versions exist for BBC B, Acorn Electron and C64. The load module in each case is 20k bytes. I haven't got a full list of time taken to load - must do that sometime! - but on the Commie 64 it was one minute on the 1541 and SEVEN minutes on the tape (same tape system as PET, BTW - among other things, saved everything twice.) The BBC disk system was much faster - but you only got 100K or so on a disk, and a file had to occupy a contiguous chain of blocks. Philip.

28 years, 1 month

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Junk nite

by chemif＠mbox.queen.it

At 08:24 18/02/98 +1100, you wrote: >Just curious if I should really keep this rather well designed computer >Its an "Olivetti M24 Personal Computer". Yes, the design was "original" (=completely different) for a X86-flavour based machine;specially inside where the layout is spread on three boards:CPU, VIDEO, 8 bit ISA.(have you openened it yet?) Do you have the original keyboard also? > I'd never seen an Olivetti before, which is why I saved it from the scap heap. Now is >it scarce or nice enough to attempt to get running? It depends on what you are looking for? As "collectible" can be interesting because of its early solutions on monitor power supply (1 plug with signal and DC-PS toghether) and its design. Otherwise is another obsolete PC as many other of that age. Ciao ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONE ? ? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ? ? Pager:DTMF PHONES=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ? ? where*=asterisk key | help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html ? ? e-mail=chemif(a)mbox.queen.it ? ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

28 years, 1 month

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Commodore Ramblings

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Sam Ismail wrote (after Larry Anderson I think): > > (note, 1525 uses THIN paper not 9 1/2" form feed, a misunderstanding in > > the design specs, they thought 8 1/2" wide WITH the carrier.) > > Ok, now that is just plain lame. Who the hell designs a printer and > forgets about the tractor feed bands? Integral Data Systems, makers of the Prism and the Paper Tiger. The Paper Tiger was rev 2. Rev 1 was this...thing...called the BrighterWriter aka the IP-125 (text only) and IP-225 (with bit-mapped graphics). I used to have one. I can't remember what I did with it and don't think I want to be reminded. It was really underwhelming and without charm. Narrow paper path, lame tractors that didn't pull the paper worth a darn, dain-bread graphics support (send a ^C I think to enter graphics mode, then the characters you send go straight to the pins on the print head -- one bit per pin, send another ^C to get out, and no there was no way to escape ^C to send 0x03 to the pins). At least it took the same ribbons that went in a model 33 Teletype. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 1 month

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Here's another 11/23+ question...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

How do I enable the console halt-on-break? Is there a switch on the CPU board for that? It's the M8189 11/23+ CPU. -------

28 years, 1 month

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Anyone want a Cray

by adam＠merlin.net.au

How often do these come up for sale? A Cray, about 6 or 7 years old, apparntly, is being sold in Australia. They're asking $100,000, which puts it a tad out of my range. :) However, if it isn't sold it will be scrapped - I wonder if they will accept a couple of cartons of beer over whatever the scrap offer is? Anyone want it? :) Adam.

28 years, 1 month

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Great find

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Today I stopped at Goodwill and found a new unopened copy of A,T&T's ver 3.51 system software and four manuals for the Unix PC for $4. This after getting UnixPC a few months back that was password protected and I could not get in to the hard drive. Now I will get from storage and hope these diskettes are still readable after 11 years sealed in plastic.

28 years, 1 month

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Subject: Re: RSTS/E on a PDP-11?

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:07:43 -0800 (PST), Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> wrote: > >>What sort of packs? What commands were you issuing to read them? > >>What OS did you try to read them from? What error message did you get > >>when it failed? > > >They're RK05 packs, inserted in the DK2: device. I booted from DK0: with > >RT-11 v.4 and used "dir dk2:" to read the disk directory. Although I > >don't remember the specific error, it's something like "invalid > >directory." > Yep. As you've just discovered, the RSTS/E directory structure is >different than RT-11's. >You can still read raw blocks from the disk, though. Try doing >a DUMP/TERM/RAD50 DK2: and you'll see the directory blocks, followed >by data blocks, scrolling by. I'll give this a try. >Have you tried booting either of the RSTS/E packs? No, but I'll give this a try, too. It seems that the diagnostics pack that I have is unreadable also (that one is not labeled with the required system). Thanks! Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 1 month

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Subject: Re: Apple //gs boot problem

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Tue, 17 Feb 1998 12:53:07 +0100 (BST), Phil Beesley <pb14(a)leicester.ac.uk> wrote: >>You say that the drive came from a Mac SE. Did you low level format >>or re-partition the disk on the IIGS before installing GS/OS? >>I share a drive between a IIGS and a couple of Macs, so the drive >>has a ProDos partition and a couple of HFS ones too. Often the IIGS >>barfs on startup when it comes across the APPLE_DRIVER43 partition >>map; I find that a Command-Control-Reset sorts this out and the IIGS >>boots normally. First, I know that this may sound silly, but where is the RESET key on the GS? My system came with what looks to be a Mac ADB keyboard. Is the RESET key the power key along the top, above the number keys? Back to the drive. I initialized the drive from within the GS/OS Finder (using the Disk | Initialize menu item). I did not specifically partition the disk, though. If you use the Apple Disk utility (that's probably not the exact name) that comes on the GS/OS disks, it shows no partitions, although it identifies the drive as ProDos. How exactly should I take to get this to work properly? I'm obviously missing a step somewhere. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 1 month

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LCD life

by manney＠nwohio.com

Um, I believe so (it's at the shop). I'll check. > Manney, > > Is that Nec a MultiSpeed? I have an older model without the backlight > and no hard drive. > > Joe

28 years, 1 month

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System/34, contd.

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

After some investigation via dejanews, I found that the thing uses 1.7 KW of electrcity. It weighs 1050 pounds. I subscribed to a mailing list that deals with these things and ordered a catalog from system3x.com This was the extent of stuff I found. There was also info on starting and logging into the machine, but I have a while to go until I can do that. I emailed IBM for manuals. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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Can I spin an RL02 up without it connected to the PDP?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Just to see if it worked, I showed up at SSI and turned the RL02 on. I'd planned to spin up the pack I have to see if the drive was good. There was a terminator on the OUT port of the drive, and nothing on the IN. I haven't attached it to either PDP yet (I will be this weekend!). I got an error light. So I pulled the manual I have for it, and it's not a diag manual, just a user manual. It says one reason is a loss of clock. Does that clock come from the host computer, or should I be able to spin it up without a host? -------

28 years, 1 month

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System/34 contd.

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Please don't tell me that there' something on the side opposite the floppy drive that I need access to! BTW, how would I take the thing apart to get to the PSU? Note that the CE side is against a wall. Do you know how much the thing weighs? Is there a way to move it after it's probably made dents in the floor, short of pyrotechnic charges? What do you suppose is the heaviest part of it, after PSU and case? >[Removing PSU for testing] >That may not be possible. A Sys/34 PSU takes about 1/4 of the machine's size - >It's about 1/2 of the front section of the CPU box. >There's additional parts to it in the rear section. Oh, and there's a small >red switch toward the top center of the non-CE panel side of the machine, see >that? It *HAS* to be on to power the machine up. It'll say "power check" >on the frontpanel if you don't. Oh, another thing: See the big LOAD button >on the frontpanel next to the FDD? You think that's to LOAD a floppy, right? >WRONG, read LOAD as RESET... (I found this out the WRONG way...) >you push it to reload the O/S. >------- > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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Micropolis Disk Storage Module Model No. 1023-II

by wts＠exo.com

I have a Micropolis Disk Storage Module Model No. 1023-II that I got 10 years ago with an Altair. I would like to get it running again. It is a 5.25-inch drive that looks very similiar to the ones used in early Vector Graphic S-100 systems. Does anyone have a manual or information about this drive? Tom

28 years, 1 month

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GP-IB (was Re: Atari 8-bit Find)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 02:27 AM 2/15/98 -0600, you wrote: >Which reminds me: why didn't IEEE-488 ever become a big hit in the >computer biz? It's been around since the 60's, is standard, has good It's used by: Commodore Pets GRiD Compass HP 3000 HP 1000 (I think) Probably others... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

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System/34 contd.

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> For one thing, what is the CE Panel? The thing is in a corner, with > the end that has the floppy drive on it visible, as well as the side Someone else has already given a far better reply than I could. > that has a small power switch on it. I went down to Radio Shack, they > only had 220-110 transformers that could handle up to 40 Watts. I have > a hint this might not be enoug ;) Also, they had 110-220 transformers. > Could I just wire one of those backwards and get the same result? Possible but not a good performer. Step-down transformers are usually wound for around 220-120V and allow for 10V or so of voltage drop. You'd be lucky to get more than 200V out on any sort of load. Also, 40VA is about 100 times too small :-( Try industrial equipment suppliers - 1kVA, 3kVA, even 5kVA transformers should be obtainable. And the bigger it is the less it'll suffer from voltage drop. > Wouldn't it be easier to just wire two 110 volt plugs together like > I was told I could try if I like "but I would far better notter"? > IS this indeed like trying to move heat from a cold to a hot object? Yes, insofar as it can be done, but don't just connect it up and expect it to happen. And if you get it wrong you'll probably melt the cold object, um, I mean wiring, not to mention causing a big flash and bang and/or your death. The two sockets to which you'd have to connect are almost certain not to be in the same room. If you really want to go down this route, here are some things to think about: First, use 3 pin plugs wherever possible - reversing the polarity of a 2 pin plug at any point during the following procedure could quite literally be fatal. One pin of every 110V socket in the house is a "neutral" pin - at ground potential but not part of the ground connection. The other pin of each socket is "live" at 110V to ground. In each socket, identify the neutral pin if you can (a voltmeter between power pin and ground _should_ do it - if you get 0V or something silly like 40V on each side, you haven't found ground) To evaluate a pair of sockets connect the voltmeter between the live pin of one and the live pin of the other. You should get either 0V or 220V (+/- about 20V in each case). If you get 220V you _may_ be onto a winner. The final barrier is protection. Earth leakage protection (GFCI I think it's called in the US) is almost universal. If the two circuits are on the same GFCI relay, you're OK. If they are not, you're not. The test is, connect an ordinary table lamp (or similar) between live on one socket and neutral on the other. (Check with voltmeter first - it should give 110V.) If the GFCI trips, you can't get 220V by this method. If the GFCI remains stable, you wire up a junction box that takes live >from each socket plus ground from somewhere safe and feeds a 220V socket. Now, are you still thinking of using that method? If so, you shouldn't be! Seriously, I'd recommend extracting the PSU from the machine and opening it up. You never know, it may be easily modifiable to 110V operation. Alternatively, you may be able to substitute one or more 110V PSUs to power the LV outputs in the same manner. Finally, if the machine hasn't been powered up for a few years, you should definitely remove the PSU, power it up with no more than light bulbs on the outputs, and measure voltages. Philip.

28 years, 1 month

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Cray articles

by dastar＠wco.com

Here is a series of articles from the Memorybilia web page (http://www.memorybilia.com) about the Cray's Tony Cole bought. Too bad he's doing what he's doing, but then again, nobody drops $15,000 without the intention of making it back. This Cray has had its day What was once the world's fastest computer is sold by Livermore Lab for its scrap value By Tom Abate EXAMINER TECHNOLOGY WRITER Call it a symbol of technology obsolescence, or a museum piece, perhaps. But a Cray1 supercomputer, once the world's fastest computational device, is now sitting in a South San Francisco warehouse, where it will either be sold to a collector or get melted down to recover the five tons of copper and gold inside. Hayward businessman Tony Cole bought the supercomputer for $10,000 at a surplus equipment auction at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. When purchased new in the late 1970s, the Cray 1 cost $19,000,000, lab officials said. "We got our money's worth out of it," said Derrol Hammer, a purchasing agent at the lab. "We ran that machine for over 10 years at 24 hours a day." But Hammer said it cost more that $35,000 a month to run the Cray 1, a cylindrical machine that is 7 feet tall and 9 feet in diameter, and requires its own electrical substation to provide it with power. "A desktop workstation of the Sun type, or a Silicon Graphics workstation that we can put on a desk, is a Cray 1 equivalent." Hammer said. "You can buy a workstation for the monthly cost of maintenance" on the Cray 1. So in 1990 Livermore pulled the plug on the aging supercomputer, and began asking other government and university labs if they wanted the 10,000 pound digital dinosaur. When no takers surfaced, the lab auction off the machine in February. Enter Tony Cole, 29 founder of VIPC Computers, a 10-year-old Hayward firm that salvages useful components or scrap metals from surplus machines. Cole offered the highest of seven bids, and drove away on a flat-bed truck with several tons of supercomputer and associated peripherals. "We're sure to make our money back on the scrap value of the metal alone," Cole said. "There's at least $15,000 worth of gold in that thing." Because it is an excellent conductor, gold was used to coat the edge connectors on the more that 1,600 circuits cards that made up the Cray's innards. Cole said each circuit card also contain about 2 pound of valuable copper. But rather than crush the machine for its metals, Cole would like to sell it intact as a relic or the early supercomputer age. "The Cray system is the granddaddy of all of them." Cole said. "I would like to sell it to somebody like Bill Gates or Ross Perot. "It would make a great center-piece." But so far the Hayward entrepreneur has had trouble even giving the Cray away. Gloria Chun Hoo of the Tech Museum of Innovation in San Jose said Cole had offered to loan the machine to her institution, but the museum thinks it is too heavy. "We thought we could put in our lobby," she said. "But occasionally people have evening receptions here, and we couldn't keep moving it out of the way." The Oakland Tribune, Wednesday April 14th. 1993 Lab sells its supercomputer at a bargain-for $10,000 After 10 years or use, the one-time $19 million machine was just too outdated and costly to keep By David Berkowitz STAFF WRITER Was it colossal government waste or just the price of staying in the research game? About 10 years ago, Lawrence Livermore Laboratory paid $19 million for a Cray-1 supercomputer, then the fastest, most complex computer available in the world. In late February, the lab sold that same computer at auction-less a few key propriety components-for $10,000 to Hayward computer reseller. Tony Cole, 29, said he bought the machine figuring that at the very least he could break it down and sell its gold and other metal parts for $16,000 to $20,000. At best, Cole hopes to deal the 30-ton machine to a technology museum or some domestic company able to foot the $100,000 to $500,000 tab of restarting the now-obsolete machine. Seven parties submitted sealed bids to buy the supercomputer at the auction, a lab spokeswomen said. "Normally you can't get hold of one of these, regardless of the age, because of the nature of it." Said Cole, only the second private citizen to buy a Cray-1. Cray Research Inc. installed about 40 Cray-1s between 1976 and 1982, after which it released the more Cray X-MP and the Cray-2, said Ron Rayome, an analyst with Cray in San Ramon. The computer was used to simulate physical events, such as airflow over an airplane's wing or a missile's casing. "The thing that made the Cray-1 unique was that it was products that exhibited a clear superiority to any other previous technology," said Alan Geller, a sales representative for Cray. Lawrence Livermore Laboratory, deeply entrenched in weapons research during the Cold War era, considered the supercomputer crucial to its design efforts. For the lab, it wasn't a matter of paying $19 million for a machine that would lose nearly all of its value in 10 years: it was a matter of getting the most possible use from a top computer for $1.9 million a year, plus maintenance cost, said Mike May, a former lab director. "You don't really buy it with the idea of reselling it," said Gary Dvorchak, an industry analyst with Hambrecht & Quist in San Francisco. "Presumably, they got the full value they were looking for in terms of the projects they were working on. There are things you can't do without a supercomputer. That's why they're buying them." "There's not much choice," agreed Bruce Kelly, a computer scientist at the lab. "That's the price tag they put on those types of machines. And we need the machine. They do large scientific calculations, real number-floating point calculations. They do them very fast, and they can do a lot of them." Today, the lab uses newer versions of Cray supercomputer, including the latest $30 million YMP-C-90, which is 100 times more powerful than the Cray-1. The Cray-1 that Cole bought was actually one or two the lab retired to a warehouse in 1990 because the were outdated and too costly to maintain. The other was sold three years ago. Darrol Hammer, a technician who works with supercomputers, said the lab was paying more than $30,000 a month to keep the Cray-1's running. Meanwhile, he said many modern desktop computers were able to perform the same functions as quickly and accurately as the Cray, he said. "It just does not pay to keep something like that going." Hammer said. "The power requirements on one of those is incredible." Computer Currents Volume 10 Number 23, April 20, 1993 NEWS & INDUSTRY SILICON VALLEY NEWS "Look Honey, I Bought A Cray 1 Supercomputer!" Tony Cole of Hayward, California says he is the first individual on record to own a Cray Model 1 supercomputer. Though the supercomputer doesn't work, Cole says the gold in it alone could be worth as much as $60,000. Cole bought the Cray at a government auction held by Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (Livermore, Calif.) in February of this year. Cole says the Cray can be fixed, and he plans to sell it to the highest bidder. It stands about seven feet high, weighs in at 20,000 pounds, and cost the government an estimated $19 million new in 1976. Cole said he bid a binary amount, $10,101.01, for the Cray in sealed bids accepted by Lawrence Livermore, figuring the binary number would be lucky. He won the bid, but it took a week for Livermore Labs to requisition a forklift big enough to move the supercomputer the 100 feet to the dock where Cole could load it. The Cray 1 was billed as the first "designer" computer with its cylindrical shape and custom genuine leather upholstery. It took four years for Seymours Cray to build the first Cray 1 when he started Cray Research in 1972. When the first Crays were delivered, they were the world's fastest supercomputers, but only three were known to be still operational in 1991, while others have become museum pieces. The Cray 1 is cooled be liquid nitrogen, and offers 29 14-inch removable media disk drives systems weighing in at 600 pounds each. The main computer housing holds 20 panels with 2,800 printed circuit boards with gold connectors. As for processing speed, Digital Equipment Corporation's new 64-bits Alpha chip, 21064, offers the same processing speed as the Cray 1. Cole says while he could get his money back be selling the Cray for scrap metal, he is hoping to get more. "Selling a Cray just to get gold out of it would be like selling a Model-T Ford for the scrap iron," Cole said. He's hoping Ross Perot or Bill Gates might be interested in having the Cray for their offices. An old Cray employee has even contacted him to offer to get the Cray working again. "I'm waiting to see what happens," Cole added. Own a Piece of History Dept: A couple of years ago, Tony Cole of Hayward, California, became the first and only citizen to own a Cray-1 supercomputer. He bought it at an auction, over the protest of the government. Apparently, the thing is supposed to be sold to the military or who knows what other authorized organizations. Anyway, Tony has taken the printed circuit boards (cards) out of it and selling them enclosed between two thick slabs of Lucite as collectors items, conversation pieces, or whatever you want to call them. These are probably the only cards from a Cray-1 ever to be sold this way, and there are fewer than thousand available. Each one is different, two-sided, and cool looking. Each original card seems to have been mounted on 1 1/2 pound copper plate. Cole is selling them for $xxx.xx each plus $10.00 shipping fee (they weight a lot). Each is about 8 by 10 inches. Grab a piece of history for your desk or wall while you can. Tony can be contacted at Memorybilia Computers, P. O. Box 25554, San Mateo, Ca 94402; 415 525-1212, Pager 415 377-7701. This is one unique and outstanding gift idea for the Techie. Seriously cool. A piece of history TONY COLE IS A COMPUTER freak supercomputers that is. Fascinated with the supercomputers that Lawrence Livermore Laboratory was using to test weapons during the height of the Cold War, Cole bought a 10-ton Cray-1 computer at auction three years ago for $10,101.01. The government originally paid $23 million for the supercomputer. But advances in technology made it obsolete. At the time, Cole told Alameda Newspaper Group he'd melt down it's gold content, sell it and put the Cray's hulk in the San Jose Tech Museum of Innovation. Bill Gates, Microsoft's founder and a history buff, told him to do the same thing. Cole quickly found out that wouldn't work, thought, because his 10-ton baby was to heavy for the museum's floors. THE OPEN SOLUTION: Cole founded Memorybilia Computers, a Hayward company built around his Cray. He is breaking that discarded hunk of machinery into parts, mounting it in acrylic and selling it as historical art. Don't laugh. If you've ever visited a top Silicon Valley firm, you know this stuff is everywhere. And Cole is sure tech-art's popularity will continue that he's just bought three, later model supercomputers from Cray itself for a lowly $5,000. The cost to own a piece of technology history? About $200 to $250. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!

28 years, 1 month

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Linux, Apache, Scripting books (Off-Topic)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

No, it's OK... I'm happy with the web. After all, it's getting to be classic, and is probably the future. > >Atari BBS* instead. Mine was a 130XE with 384K ram (I did the upgrade > >myself - had to run it with the cover off because of the heat), 4 1050 > >disk drives, and a single 2400b Codex modem. I was 13 years old, I don't > > ABACUS (the Atari Bay Area Computer Users Society) still runs it's BBS on > an Atari 1040ST. (Though, to keep this off-topic, we're thinking of moving > to a linux box.) A travesty !! Or do you mean minix. The Toronto Atari Federation still uses FoRem on a TT. (still sucks) (The sys-op will get me for that ! ) ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM(a)interlog.com

28 years, 1 month

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Anyone want a Cray

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com> wrote: > Did the cops catch up with you after you caught up with him? Did he die > slowly enough to encourage the rest of us to discourage the metal dealers? We all start dying the moment we're born, how do you expect Sam to slow that down? Anyway, this thread got me thinking about a note I saw in comp.sys.super a couple of weeks back. Here it is, cut'n'pasted from DejaNews. Just some things for y'all to think about. -Frank McConnell --- cut here --- Subject: Re: Thinking Machines... From: eugene(a)george.arc.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) Date: 1998/02/04 Message-ID: <6b9dut$k445(a)news.arc.nasa.gov> Newsgroups: comp.sys.super In article <34de7adc.64515852(a)news-s02.ny.us.ibm.net> abaddon(a)ibm.net (Michael Ross) writes: >Several Cray beasts have found their way into museums, but I am >unaware of any TMC machines that have been preserved - and I know of >several that have been scrapped... Several. TCM has a CM-1, a CM-2, and a CM-5 by recollection. Brewster Kahle has kept at least one in his basement (so told). I have yet to attend one of his parties to examine it. The fundamental problem appears to be a guy in Hollywood who has taken to supply electronics as props for movie sets who is attempting to corner the market. I can view a piece of the SAGE system, and I think similar panels have been used on television like the Irwin Allen series Time Tunnel. >Does anyone know of any that may be got rid of in the near (or >not-so-near) future? Preferably in Europe? Particularly the earlier >CM-2 and CM-200 models (pre-sparc). Someone has got to make a point of >saving one, and I would fancy the job ( It'll make a change from >saving pdp-8's and DEC 10's :-) > >Come to think of it, if anyone knows any other serious boxes being got >rid of, please let me know... "That would be telling." Oh, there are several people working on this. It depends on your intent. I can tell you, you have "heavy-weight" competition. Saving this stuff is a lot more expensive than most people realized. And then there is Tony Cole..... --- cut here ---

28 years, 1 month

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Anyone want a Cray

by foxvideo＠wincom.net

At 08:56 PM 2/17/98 -0500, you wrote: >> Well, I personally doubt anyone will actually pay that amount since you >> could get similar computing power from a contemporary PC for a fraction of >> that price > >Umm, really... > >Even a low end EL would waste a hotshot PeeCee in a real world number >crunch contest. A Pentium II (or Alpha, or UltraSPARC II) just can not >keep up a good, sustained vector flow like a Cray. Getting a decent 100 >Mflops is very hard to do on a desktop system today, but not for a ca. >1976 Cray-1. If this Cray for sale is a decent Y/MP type, it could >probably sustain many hundreds of Mflops, perhaps into a Gflop. > >And then there is the issue of the memory bandwidth... Seems to me I recall reading a bit of folklore where someone at Apple told Cray that they had used their new Cray to help design their new Apple and Cray replied that they had used an Apple to help design the Cray. Cheers Charlie Fox PS... Sam, did you get your copy of the videotape? > > >

28 years, 1 month

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IEEE-488 and Commodore (was: GP-IB)

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

>> Pardon me if I ask a stupid question, but If they were going to >> implement a high-speed serial bus for the C64/VIC/1541's, why would >> they use a device that was primarily designed for PARALLEL >> operation? >> >> It seems that a 6850/6851 ACIA would have been much more appropriate, >> and would have not been such a software mess. > > If computer holy war zealots knew the story behind this Commodore debacle > back in the 80's when the flames were at their highest temperatures, the > anti-C64 contingent would have had a field day. Wouldn't they just! It seems to me that if it's anything like the PET, they were using this parallel chip for all sorts of functions - keyboard scanning for a start - and they were trying to save a chip by putting the high speed serial link onto the shift register function. <rant> It doesn't take that much more time/effort/money to do it properly.... <\rant> Philip.

28 years, 1 month

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LCD life

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 02:16 AM 2/15/98 -0600, you wrote: >Portables also make good collectibles because they tend to have the best >technology of their time, are integrated, and don't take a lot of space! And as the 10-year mark gets further into the dregs of pc-sameness, portables still offer a wealth of individuality. Some more recent portables of note: Atari Portfolio (1989) Fujistu Poquet (1989) Gateway Handbook (?) Dauphin DTR1 Various GRiD's and GRiDPads NCR Pen computers Dolch Lunchboxes Various ruggedized laptops etc. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

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Disk Exerciser

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:09 PM 2/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >I've never HEARD of a disk exerciser. > >What on earth is one for? Pushups? Situps? To get those oversized 8" disks down to a svelte 5.25"... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

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IEEE-488 and Commodore (was: GP-IB)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

THUS FAR, I HAVE SEEN NO COMPUTERS THAT SUCK. (EXCEPT ONE'S BASED ON MS OS'S) APPLE II'S HAPPEN TO BE ONE OF THE LONGEST RANGING, AND STILL EVOLVING "SPECIES" OF COMPUTERS > >>Oh well, you gotta love it. >> >>PS. So the Commodore did suck after all ;) > >yes, but not quite as sucky as Atari's and especially Apple II's! : P > >Les > > >

28 years, 1 month

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OOPs AT&Ts

by lfb107＠psu.edu

At 09:29 PM 2/16/98, Joe wrote: >At 01:35 PM 2/16/98 -0700, you wrote: >>Joe: >> >>Do you have any software??? > > Nope, none, notta, zip. Do you have any software or docs for the 3B2? >I did find an old software archive for the 3B1 at Ohio State U. There is >supposed to be an archive for the 3B2 but I couldn't find it. >> >>-Mike Software is going to be near impossible to find. have you started up the 3B2 yet? If the root password is changed, your going to be screwed without system disks. Check comp.sys.att for 3B2 stuff. Haven't checked in in a while but when i did, there were hard disks, more 3B2's, NIC's, etc. for sale all the time. System disks are going to be hard to find. I've got a set (only thru extreme luck) but nobody's getting 'em! AT&T might actually still sell the disks though you'd probably pay $1,000 for them or some other silly amount. les

28 years, 1 month

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I got an Apple ProFile hard drive.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Geez! An original 5 Mb Seagate 506! I used to have a maintenance <manual for it but I haven't seen it in at least 10 years. I also have a I must have 5 or 6 ST506 and ST412s all good here most with low time. < The squeal is probably coming from the ground strap on the bottom <spindle. Try putting a bit of powered graphite on it and see if that Common! Allison

28 years, 1 month

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GP-IB (was Re: Atari 8-bit Find)

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Also used by C3, Sperry and Unisys for the 48 workstation serial link under CTOS/BTOS. -----Original Message----- From: John Rollins <rexstout(a)ptld.uswest.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 9:02 PM Subject: Re: GP-IB (was Re: Atari 8-bit Find) > >>>Which reminds me: why didn't IEEE-488 ever become a big hit in the >>>computer biz? It's been around since the 60's, is standard, has good > >Maybe because the cables are so expensive? > >>It's used by: >> >>Commodore Pets >>GRiD Compass >>HP 3000 >>HP 1000 (I think) >> >>Probably others... >And don't forget the HP 9000... Actually, HP uses their own variant, called >HP-IB. It's probably compatible with GP-IB, but I'm not sure. I have an >8-bit ISA HP-IB controller around here somewhere, but nothing to use it >with(at least not yet). > >-JR http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers > http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek > >

28 years, 1 month

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9370 is a dog! Was: Re: Re[2]: Firsts

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Are these all water machines? There are some air-cooled versions that ar <probably reasonable. Water cooling isn't that bad. You could use heating compoents for pumps if needed and heat extraction from the water could be a automotive radiator with a blower to room air. Of cource the room temperature would rise but for short term ops that would work. <Yes, the 400 Hz would be a problem, almost as much as a cooling system (i <one went with a water machine - probably too big of a headache). Assuming you need 50kw, if it were say 10kw or less the scale of things drops to more managable proportions. Allison

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

BBC Model B - video help

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<the only thing that could cause this would be the 6845 CRTC chip (IC2 on <my schematic). The cursor signal is produced by that chip (at least in Unlikely but possible. More likely is a memory address error. A stuck address line will cause data to repeat 2*n times in the display memory. <modes 0-6), and so if there was any problem later on, then at least the <cursor would be in the right _phyical_ position, (and would presumably <not line up with what you are typing). If the 6845 is socketed, then try <reseating it (pull it out and push it back in again). Same for other chips around it. Allison

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Linux, Apache, Scripting books (Off-Topic)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:55 AM 2/17/98 +0000, you wrote: >> ABACUS (the Atari Bay Area Computer Users Society) still runs it's BBS on >> an Atari 1040ST. (Though, to keep this off-topic, we're thinking of moving >> to a linux box.) > > A travesty !! Or do you mean minix. The Toronto Atari Federation >still uses FoRem on a TT. (still sucks) (The sys-op will get me for >that ! ) Well, Most of the club members have non-Atari modems... Why stick to only Atari when there is an alternative that will do a better job of letting us make the most of our Atari's? I see the BBS like a modem; doesn't need to be an Atari to host Atari discussions. In any case, it's kind of a moot point as ABACUS now supports Mac and PC users. We decided that the true value in the club was the members. We knew each other, and enjoy our company, and don't want to lose that just because some have moved on to another platform. So now we do everything. Something to think about as an alternative to letting a good club die out. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

2
1
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MicroVAX II -- Nicely set up! -- Needs rescue

by kyrrin2＠wizards.net

Here's a fellow looking for a good home for his MVII. Anyone? -=-=- <snip> -=-=- From: "Brett A. Farnam" <bfarnam(a)skantech.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec Subject: Micro Vax II Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:59:49 -0500 Lines: 12 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.201.215.251 Message-ID: <34ea323c.0(a)news.Skantech.com> Path: Supernews70!Supernews73!supernews.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!streamer1.cleveland.iagnet.net!qual.net!iagnet.net!198.6.0.23!uunet!in4.uu.net!news.Skantech.com!208.201.215.251 Xref: Supernews70 comp.sys.dec:60608 To any one interested, I have a MicroVax II that is nicely configured and licensced in my name. I need to find a home for it. Any thoughts? I am willing to donate it before it becomes trash. I have Open VMS with DEC Net, (2) RA90's, (1) TK 50, (1) TS 05 all in a standard DEC issue 48" cab. Brett A. Farnam -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin2 {at} wiz<ards> d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Apple II info ?

by lwalker＠mail.interlog.com

I just picked up an AppleII and 2 FDDs with a bunch of add-ons at a local thrift store. The only Apple I have explored is my Mac+. Anyone able to identify the cards ? A Disk II interface card...... obvious. Ram Module by Multiflex Tech Inc.....I imagine additional ram Grapple+ Printer Interface......... Serial, Parallel ?? Multiflex Tech ...Long card with kludged cable to an RCA male connector and another to a clothes-pin chip staddler labelled AP TC/14. Two labelled chips "Firmware" and "Char. Gen." (imagine this is a video card of some sort.) Modem 80 card with 2 tel. jacks........... Baud-rate ? CableTV kludge to a "SUP 'R' MOD CH.33 TV Interface Unit ?? External added-on connector 2x3 blade (like an AC outlet but with 3 pairs of smaller female recepticles in one unit) ?? It also has what I imagine is stock Ext. video (single RCA) and cassette (2 mini-pin i/o ) Any help appreciated. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM(a)interlog.com

28 years, 1 month

9
23
0 0

Thinking about selling my TRS 80 Model 100

by transit＠primenet.com

Last fall, I bought a Model 100 which was fine, except the LCD doesn't work. I thought I could fix it, but find I really have no time to troubleshoot it . .. I'm willing to resell it to anyone on this list for $10 + shipping, send me e-mail if you're interested. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Charles P. Hobbs __ __ ____ ___ ___ ____ transit(a)primenet.com /__)/__) / / / / /_ /\ / /_ / / / \ / / / / /__ / \/ /___ / -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years, 1 month

1
0
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PDP-11/34 & DG Nova-3

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> > 1) Check the PSU in the 11/34 CPU. It's probably fine, > > but you don't want to ruin all your boards > > How should I check the power supply? I know that many people here > say you should always do this but with the small cheap micros I've > picked up so far I haven't bothered. Disconnect the PSU from the backplanes. Inspect it visually to make sure there are no obvious uprooted components, cooked tracks, etc. Connect dummy loads between the important supply rails and ground (I think they are +5V +15V and -15V in a PDP - Can someone confirm this? Do you need a load on the 20V rail as well?) and switch on. Measure the voltages across the dummy loads. Generally the 15V rails don't need to be loaded very heavily - a resistor of 100 ohms rated at a few watts ought to do it. You ought to try and draw several amps from the 5V rail - a 6V car headlamp bulb is ideal. Light bulbs make good dummy loads in any case because you can see if there is any current there... Beyond that, there are plenty of PDP hackers on this list who can take up the story at this point... Philip. PS I too will admit to not doing this nearly often enough...

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Anyone want a Cray

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote: > The Lawrence Livermore National Laboratories (across the street from my > neighborhood) auctioned off their Cray in 1993 and it was sold for $10,000 > to some oaf who said he could get lots of gold out of it and was thus very > excited (there was a newspaper article about it). I was incensed, but oh > well. I expect there will be similarly high bidding by the scrappers on > this poor guy as well. Hmm, Tony Cole? Seems he has put one on display at The Computer Museum's History Center and is selling bits and pieces of others, encased in Lucite as geek memorabilia. There was a story about this in the San Jose Mercury a while back, which probably means that it's up on their web site, hmm.... http://www.sjmercury.com/columnists/cassidy/docs/mc011898.htm -Frank McConnell

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

TRS80 Model 4P problem

by KFergason＠aol.com

I have a slightly wierd problem. Not sure if it is hardware or software. Ok, I turn the 4p on with no floppy in the drive. It says: The Floppy Disk Drive is not Ready. (in 3 languages, no less) I put in the TRSDOS 6 system disk, the system appears to boot, but the monitor looks like there is no sync. It is very fuzzy. I can type in the date, and enter a command (dir :1), and the system appears to do it. Why does actually getting booted up cause the monitor to be unusable? Trying other disks in the drive, if they are not system disks, causes other messages to appear, perfectly readable. Any ideas? Kelly

28 years, 1 month

3
2
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Epson HX-40 ???

by archive＠navix.net

Greets: This weekend I had a great run of the swap meets, etc., in Wichita, Kansas and came home with about 50 different machines, tons of software, etc., etc. Anyway, there are two specific machines I would like to ask about now, I will post further questions on several others in the future. First, I picked up an Epson HX-40 laptop-sized computer. On the front it says MagicBox above the LCD screen. On the back there is a battery bay as well as a rom chip bay, and it says Epson HX-40 Model # H401A. I understand this machines runs off of program-specific rom chips. It has a chip in the slot under the trap-door, and when I boot it, it comes up to a pharmacetical company inventory, order, etc., menu. The machines runs off of 4 AA batteries or a AC adapter. It really is a cute machine, but I want to know more. In searching the web, I find 1 measly reference to this machine... yes, 1 (or two), neither of which give any info. on this machine. It is listed on a guys resume as having experience in working with it. I do find a lot of information on the well-known Epson HX-20 --- known as the 1st laptop computer. In finding pictures of that, this one looks really similar. This one has ports labeled BCP and one labeled SP on one side, and on the back is the cassette, seriel, and RS-232C, printer, and power adaptor ports. There is also a 50-pin port on the opposite side with no label. I guess what I am wondering is if any of you have some more information on this little guy? No year can be found on it, but I suspect early 1980s. Does anyone have any other 'chips' for it to insert other software into memory. Are these units rare? Please let me know any information. If you're interested in it let me know that to. Next, I am curious about a Data General One laptop computer I picked up. Specifically, I need to know what type of power supply it takes, as I can't find that information anywhere. It says it is ms-dos based, but I am wondering what dos would run on it. It has 2 3.5" disk drives (Epson drives), and I am curious as to if it had a hard drive? It has a full-screen, I would suppose monochrome? Could it display graphics, etc.? Also, when was it made? *any* information on the above two items most certainly are welcome, and would be quite appreciated. Please let me know if you are interested in getting either one of these as well. I will post some more very unique items in the next couple of days that I was lucky enough to get my grubby little hands on.... Thanks in advance, CORD COSLOR -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive(a)navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue(a)navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\|

28 years, 1 month

4
6
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Anyone want a Cray

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

How much sense does that make? Isn't it a bit like saying "You can pay 100,000 for it, or you can pay 10, either is fine with us"? If it doesn't weigh too much, ship it to the US, I'm sure there are more customers here (I doubt I'll get much use from it, unless it runs term and MS Word ;) >How often do these come up for sale? A Cray, about 6 or 7 years old, >apparntly, is being sold in Australia. They're asking $100,000, which >puts it a tad out of my range. :) However, if it isn't sold it will be >scrapped - I wonder if they will accept a couple of cartons of beer over >whatever the scrap offer is? > >Anyone want it? :) > >Adam. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Stupid BIOS tricks

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I pretty much knew it wouldn't work, but hoped that maybe it would work just like a normal BIOS... anyway, does anyone have that circuit cellar article? What is "inexpensive"? > >> I just downloaded the assembly source to a generic XT bios. It compiles, >> but I can't apparently run it from a command line, or boot off a floppy >> disk that has the thing rawritten on it. > >Um - what are you *expecting* it to do when you run it from the command >line or from floppy disk? > >> Is there a way I COULD do it >> without getting a ROM burner? > >Sure - there are adapters that let you put code into a small CMOS static >RAM with an adapter that fits on the ROM socket. One of Steve Ciarcia's >early Circuit Cellar articles in _BYTE_ shows how to do this. But if I >were you I'd just build or buy an EPROM programmer - they're by no means >expensive. > >Tim. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Stupid BIOS tricks

by peacock＠simconv.com

> I just downloaded the assembly source to a generic XT bios. It compiles, > but I can't apparently run it from a command line, or boot off a floppy > disk that has the thing rawritten on it. A BIOS is linked to run at a preset address, usually F000 (64K Z80) or F000:0000 (last 64KB segment on an 8086 in real mode). What I have done when debugging a BIOS is to link it at a lower address (say, 8000:0000), then load it into memory at that address with a debugger, set the CS segment register to 8FFF (a true reset puts it at FFFF), then jump to 8FFF:0000 (simulating a reset to FFFF:0000). Since this is an XT I assume you will be running in real mode, so address translation isn't a problem unless your machine has some kind of additional address mapping logic. Of course you can't run the debugger after that as the BIOS will trash all your vectors. Be sure to modify the BIOS code to stop the memory sizing test below segment 8000 or you will memory test right over your BIOS image. Hope this helps, Jack Peacock

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

I got an Apple ProFile hard drive.

by rcini＠email.msn.com

I just got an Apple ProFile hard drive. It seems to work, although I don't have an interface card for it yet. But, it squeaks. You know, like a water pump on a car before it blows (that's the pump bearings, BTW). Does anyone have any check-out/maintenance tips for this drive? The hard drive is labeled "Seagate model ST-506". Thanks! Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 1 month

6
9
0 0

Junk nite

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

Just curious if I should really keep this rather well designed computer Its an "Olivetti M24 Personal Computer". I'd never seen an Olivetti before, which is why I saved it from the scap heap. Now is it scarce or nice enough to attempt to get running? If not, it becomes my new post box - rip out the drives and contents, sit it on top of a pole outside the house, paint the house number on the monitor screen :) Should look good! Also found, and free for a good home (cover my costs) a great condition box set of Texas Instruments Professional Computer MS-DOS manuals. I don't but thought somebody else might want them. Andrew.

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

Stupid BIOS tricks

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I just downloaded the assembly source to a generic XT bios. It compiles, but I can't apparently run it from a command line, or boot off a floppy disk that has the thing rawritten on it. Is there a way I COULD do it without getting a ROM burner? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

C64 Modem issue

by kroma＠worldnet.att.net

>I have a C-64c and a Commodore brand 1200 modem. Since I still haven't had >a chance to resolve the problem with my 1541 disk drive, I'd like to >explore using the modem a bit. Can it be done in BASIC? Meaning, can I >issue certain BASIC commands to init the modem and dial out? It's been a >while since I've messed with any Commie machine, and when I did, I couldn't >afford the "luxury" of a 1200 baud modem. This may be something simple, and >I'd appreciate any help, even a pointer to info on the internet. >

28 years, 1 month

1
0
0 0

Kaypro 4 modem

by alanr＠morgan.ucs.mun.ca

I just got my hands on a Kaypro 4 in excellent condition, complete with software and manuals. However, I cannot seem to get the internal 300 baud modem working. I have two programs here with it, one is KERMIT for the Kaypro II CP/M 2.2, and the other is Superterm Version 5. According to the addendum with the machine, the version of Superterm that I have was modified for use with the internal modem on the Kaypro 4, however I cannot seem to get the modem to do anything. Would this modem accept AT commands? and if not, what commands do I have to send to it in command mode? Any help would be appreciated. On a side note, anybody remember the Star Trek basic game? They just don't make games like that anymore. I'm sitting here with Quake, QuakeII, and a whole slew of other advanced 3D games on my pentium, but I cannot tear myself away from playng Star Trek on the Kaypro! (getting my ass kicked, can't aim the torpedo's worth a damn :)

28 years, 1 month

3
2
0 0

Is there some special trick required to get RT-11 to sysgen?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I do @sysgen and it runs out of memory every time. Under RT11XM. I have 2 MW of RAM here, shouldn't that be enough? -------

28 years, 1 month

2
3
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System/34 contd.

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

UHOH! That means that I will have to move the thing! It's against the wall! With three 74-pound terminals on it, no less! This machine ran in 1980, when it was last used. Possibly, it has been eaten by the two- foot long rats that live in our building. To restate what I previously said, it needs a 220-v power source and I am trying to run it in an area that only has 110-v plugs. >[Previously, a load of questions...] >The CE panel is the Customer Engineer panel. WHile facing the front of the machine, take a step to your right. Turn left 90 degrees. Take another step >right. You should (Depending on your stride) be looking at a small hinged cover >about 12" high, on the left side of the machine. Open it. Inside is a mess of >switches and lights. This is the CE panel, similar to the frontpanel of a PDP-11 >or similar mini. WHen the machine is running you can watch the LEDs flash at >you. > >I'm not sure on the voltage stuff... >Is this machine running? Are you tyring to get it that way? >------- > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

1
0
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System/34 contd.

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

For one thing, what is the CE Panel? The thing is in a corner, with the end that has the floppy drive on it visible, as well as the side that has a small power switch on it. I went down to Radio Shack, they only had 220-110 transformers that could handle up to 40 Watts. I have a hint this might not be enoug ;) Also, they had 110-220 transformers. Could I just wire one of those backwards and get the same result? Wouldn't it be easier to just wire two 110 volt plugs together like I was told I could try if I like "but I would far better notter"? IS this indeed like trying to move heat from a cold to a hot object? How many question marks can the listsevrer handle before crashing? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

9370 is a dog! Was: Re: Re[2]: Firsts

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> > Possibly. But I'm not convinced. I seem to remember the biggest IBM > > 3090 system drew about 250kW (I'll have to look that up too!). I > > imagine a typical system might draw perhaps 50kW. > > That is probably for a typical installation. The actual processor is > nowhere near that value (still enough to make the utility very happy, > however). A big string of DASDs adds up very fast, especially the power > sucking IBM disks (why is that? Really big motors)? I don't know where the figure of 250kW came from. I cannot find it anywhere. I have found some figures, though, for indifidual 3090 processor units _only_, dated 1986 and 1987. While I agree with you in principle, William, you'll be surprised at some of these. Figures are electricity consumption in kVA - an upper bound on kW, but not a useful indicator - and heat output in Btu/h which I have converted to kW, which should give a lower bound on electrical power requirements. 3090 Model kVA kW Heat 150 (1986) 32 23.2 kW 400 (top of range in 1986) 83.6 61.8 kW 400 with vector coprocessor 97.8 70.6 kW 120E (1987) 29.7 21.4 kW 150E (1987, replaces 150) 30.4 22.1 kW 400E (1987, replaces 400) 79.9 59.6 kW 600E (top of range in 1987) 95.6 71.5 kW 600E with all expansion 134.6 103.6 kW Note 1986 figures were given with and without vector facility; 1987 figures were given as minimum and maximum values. These figures are not even for a minimum system - you have to add disk drives and that awful 400Hz motor generator set - which can consume up to 7kW in itself. So, as I said, a typical system based around, say, a model 200 might consume 50kW, but even that needn't cripple you financially. Philip.

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

IEEE-488 and Commodore (was: GP-IB)

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

From: Yowza! <yowza(a)yowza.com> Subject: GP-IB (was Re: Atari 8-bit Find) >On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, Larry Anderson & Diane Hare wrote: >> Remember if you find a hint of something you are collecting at a thrift, >> look around for other components (i.e. if you find a Commodore IEEE-488 >> cable start looking for PET/B-128 drives, printers, computers, tapes, >> disks, manuals, etc.) >Which reminds me: why didn't IEEE-488 ever become a big hit in the >computer biz? It's been around since the 60's, is standard, has good >performance, has IC support, can handle a bunch of devices, etc., but it >became relagated to a niche of scientific instrument control for some >reason. Here is an interesting tidbit I found a year or so ago which partially answers at least Commodore's part of the question: **QUOTE** From: brain(a)garnet.msen.com (Jim Brain) Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: PC's as 64 HD's and the 6522 chip! Date: 7 Apr 1994 13:48:35 GMT Right after I posted about hooking a 6522 VIA up to a PC parallel port to turn the PC into a "char-banger" instead of a "bit-banger", someone posted that they had thought the 6522 had a problem with the shift register. The poster also said that Jim Butterfield had alerted him and others to it. Well, I have been in correspondence with "The Commodore Man", so I asked him to elaborate on the topic. Here is the two responses: > Yes, it's true. Although I didn't get official confirmation of this >long after, when a Spectrum article quoted the designers. > As you know, the first Commodore computers used the IEEE bus to connect to >peripherals such as disk and printer. I understand that these were available >only from one source: Belden cables. A couple of years into Commodore's >computer career, Belden went out of stock on such cables (military contract? >who knows?). In any case, Commodore were in quite a fix: they made >computers and disk drives, but couldn't hook 'em together! > So Tramiel issued the order: "On our next computer, get off that bus. >Make it a cable anyone can manufacture". And so, starting with the VIC-20 >the serial bus was born. It was intended to be just as fast as the >IEEE-488 it replaced. > Technically, the idea was sound: the 6522 VIA chip has a "shift >register" circuit that, if tickled with the right signals (data and clock) >will cheerfully collect 8 bits of data without any help from the CPU. >At that time, it would signal that it had a byte to be collected, and >the processor would do so, using an automatic handshake built into the >6522 to trigger the next incoming byte. Things worked in a similar way >outgoing from the computer, too. > We early PET/CBM freaks knew, from playing music, that there was something >wrong with the 6522's shift register: it interfered with other functions. >The rule was: turn off the music before you start the tape! (The shift >register was a popular sound generator). But the Commodore engineers, >who only made the chip, didn't know this. Until they got into final >checkout of the VIC-20. > By this time, the VIC-20 board was in manufacture. A new chip could >be designed in a few months (yes, the silicon guys had application notes >about the problem, long since), but it was TOO LATE! > A major software rewrite had to take place that changed the VIC-20 >into a "bit-catcher" rather than a "character-catcher". It called for >eight times as much work on the part of the CPU; and unlike the shift >register plan, there was no timing/handshake slack time. The whole >thing slowed down by a factor of approximately 5 to 6. > There's more (the follow-on C64 catastrophe), but that's where it >happened. --Jim And the saga continues ... > When the 64 came out, the problem VIA 6522 chip had been >replaced by the CIA 6526. This did not have the shift register problem >which had caused trouble on the VIC-20, and at that time it would have >been possible to restore plan 1, a fast serial bus. Note that this would >have called for a redesign of the 1540 disk drive, which also used a VIA. > As best I can estimate - and an article in the IEEE Spectrum magazine >supports this - the matter was discussed within Commodore, and it was >decided that VIC-20 compatibility was more important than disk speed. >Perhaps the prospect of a 1541 redesign was an important part of the >decision, since current inventories needed to be taken into account. > But to keep the Commodore 64 as a "bit-banger", a new problem arose. >The higher-resolution screen of the 64 (as compared to the VIC-20) >could not be supported without stopping the CPU every once in a while. >To be exact: Every 8 screen raster lines (each line of text), the CPU >had to be put into a WAIT condition for 42 microseconds, so as to allow >the next line of screen text and color nybbles to be swept into the chip. >(More time would be needed if sprites were being used). > But the bits were coming in on the serial bus faster than that: aD >a bit would come in about every 20 microseconds! So the poor CPU, frozen >for longer than that, would miss some serial bits completely! > Commodore's solution was to slow down the serial bus even more. >That's why the VIC-20 has a faster serial bus than the 64, even though >the 64 was capable, technically, of running many times faster. > Fast disk finally came into its own with the Commodore 128. --Jim Now someone also told me at one time that they had seen a fastloader that same someone said he thought it was odd that the author of the loader had credited Commodore with the routines. Well, I can hazard a guess that the routines were the ones they had wanted to put in the 6522, but had to scrap due to the 6522 problem. Now I have no idea what the problem is/was, but I am eager to find out. However, I rescind my plans to build something around the 6522 until we find out what the problem is. Jim "Just the Facts" Brain **END QUOTE** The 64 and VIC would have had a faster drive if it wern't for the cables and the chip problems... Probably HP was doing major IEEE-488 sales and it was a strain on the cable manufactuer. IEEE-488 cables nowadays run from $40-$90 new, of course it is a standard 'get' item on my mental thrift store shopping list. -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our Commodore 64 BBS (Silicon Realms 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 1 month

3
2
0 0

RSTS/E on a PDP-11?

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Mon, 16 Feb 1998 15:06:55 -0800 (PST), Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> wrote: >>What sort of packs? What commands were you issuing to read them? >>What OS did you try to read them from? What error message did you get >>when it failed? They're RK05 packs, inserted in the DK2: device. I booted from DK0: with RT-11 v.4 and used "dir dk2:" to read the disk directory. Although I don't remember the specific error, it's something like "invalid directory." > Can RSTS/E be used on an 11/34? >>Most later versions support the 11/34, though some early versions (pre- >>1977 or so) don't. RSTS/E tends to be quite picky about peripheral >>configurations that it'll run on. I have v.6 and v.7. ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking

28 years, 1 month

2
1
0 0

I got an Apple ProFile hard drive.

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Mon, 16 Feb 1998 21:50:15 +0000, jpero(a)cgo.wave.ca wrote: >> does that mean I could just plug one of my old ST-225's or other ST-506 >>type drives intoa ProFile card? >>>Oh, you can. Still 5mb or 10mb. :) >>>Remember, all older MFM, ESDI and some early SCSI drives always >>>need annual or bi yearly LLF job. Thanks for the info. Now all that I need is an interface card for my ///. ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking

28 years, 1 month

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I got an Apple ProFile hard drive.

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Sun, 15 Feb 1998 17:39:22 -0800, John Rollins <rexstout(a)ptld.uswest.net> wrote: >>Sounds like the ProFile card is just an ST-506 hard drive interface. A >>ST-506 drive is REALLY old. I'm not an expert on the old hard >>drives/interfaces, so I'll let someone else figure all that out, but I >>can tell you that it is very old. Does the ProFile need a seperate power >>cord (does it have it's own ps), or does it get power from the Apple II? >>And if the ProFile is just an ST-506 interface, does that mean I could >>just plug one of my old ST-225's or other ST-506 type drives intoa >>ProFile card? It's a self-contained drive unit that connects to an interface card on the Apple // or /// with a 25-pin DB straight-pinned cable. It does have an Astec power supply built-in. The interface cable to the drive itself reminds me of a floppy cable (IDC edge connector to IDC header), but I didn't count the conductors. I'm assuming that it is a true ST-506 interface, but I don't know for sure. I also haven't had the time to look the drive up in my ref. materials to determine its capacity, etc., but I think that it's a 5mb drive. ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking

28 years, 1 month

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Anyone want a Cray?

by adam＠merlin.net.au

>>Several Cray beasts have found their way into museums, but I am >>unaware of any TMC machines that have been preserved - and I know of >>several that have been scrapped... > >Several. >TCM has a CM-1, a CM-2, and a CM-5 by recollection. In trying to find a home for the Convex I found a collector of Supercomputers in Adelaide (where I live). He has the CM-2 and CM-5, as well as something called an Encore Multimax, and is after the Cray but isn't going to pay the $100,000 (Australian) that is being asked. :) It looks like I have found a home for the Convex, if only I can work out how to transport it here. Adam.

28 years, 1 month

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C64 Modem issue

by jfoust＠threedee.com

John Higginbotham <higginbo(a)netpath.net> wrote: >It would be Red Hat linux, and if there's a termcap for the m100, there's >gotta be one for the c64. Yes, I know circa 1985 I used the standard Unix termcaps for the M100 and the C-64 over 300 baud links. >Do you know if anyone makes these cables and sells them? Or, barring that, >any specific links to the assembly instructions? Sure, some people on the net try to sell them, but they're easy to wire if you can find the DIN connector. I did one in a few minutes after digging for the DIN in the junk box. Worked the first time. See <http://ftp.funet.fi/pub/cbm/transfer/1541-to-PC/> for more info. I can't begin to tell you how easy and rewarding it can be to dig around on the web, following one clue to another. If you entered "x1541" or "1541 pc" in <http://www.hotbot.com> or any other search engine, or <http://www.dejanews.com>, I'm sure you'd quickly find dozens of references. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 1 month

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I got an Apple ProFile hard drive.

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-02-16 21:27:14 EST, you write: << At 05:39 PM 2/15/98 -0800, you wrote: >>But, it squeaks. You know, like a water pump on a car before it blows If that's all that's wrong, try lubing the ground strap/ spindle juncture. > does that mean I could just >plug one of my old ST-225's or other ST-506 type drives intoa ProFile card? Yes, As long as it has more cylinder and heads. You'll have to low level format after you install it. >> hmmm, i have heard only a lisa (or is it an apple ///) that can only LLF a profile?

28 years, 1 month

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System/34 contd.

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

> Well, if you could post the power specs, power cord pinouts, etc... > Also, if there is a main board, how much power does it need? Did you mean me? I have no idea of all this sort of info on the S/34. But a lot of it can often be found looking inside the various boxes and subassemblies of the machine. Philip.

28 years, 1 month

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What's a Xerox 83D?

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

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28 years, 1 month

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Apple //gs boot problem

by pb14＠leicester.ac.uk

On 16 Feb 98 at 9:29, Richard A. Cini wrote: > Turned-on, yes. Warmed-up for 30s, no. The drive did finish it's > power-on sequence and came to a rest, though, which happens in less than > 30s. > > Does the GS/OS use a special boot block like the MS-DOS boot sector, or > does it just look for the ProDOS file? You say that the drive came from a Mac SE. Did you low level format or re-partition the disk on the IIGS before installing GS/OS? I share a drive between a IIGS and a couple of Macs, so the drive has a ProDos partition and a couple of HFS ones too. Often the IIGS barfs on startup when it comes across the APPLE_DRIVER43 partition map; I find that a Command-Control-Reset sorts this out and the IIGS boots normally. Phil ************************************************************** Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport University of Leicester Tel (0)116 252-2231 E-Mail pb14(a)le.ac.uk

28 years, 1 month

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Linux, Apache, Scripting books (Off-Topic)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:21 AM 2/14/98 -0800, you wrote: >As for Linux....are you new to Unix? Start there. I bought one of those If you're new to linux, but not to MS-DOS (or even CP/M, I guess) there's a DOS-to-Linux tutorial on the web. It's at <http://linuxwww.db.erau.edu/ldp/HOWTO/DOStoLinux-HOWTO.html>. Actually, there are much better places to look for recomendations on books for modern OS's and languages than a Classic Computers list. >Atari BBS* instead. Mine was a 130XE with 384K ram (I did the upgrade >myself - had to run it with the cover off because of the heat), 4 1050 >disk drives, and a single 2400b Codex modem. I was 13 years old, I don't ABACUS (the Atari Bay Area Computer Users Society) still runs it's BBS on an Atari 1040ST. (Though, to keep this off-topic, we're thinking of moving to a linux box.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 1 month

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IEEE-488 and Commodore (was: GP-IB)

by lfb107＠psu.edu

>Oh well, you gotta love it. > >PS. So the Commodore did suck after all ;) yes, but not quite as sucky as Atari's and especially Apple II's! : P Les

28 years, 1 month

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LCD life

by manney＠nwohio.com

> <>Does anyone know how well LCDs hold up against time (provided, of course > <>that they are not cracked!)? > > There is no finite life assuming they havent been abused. I just picked up a Panasonic PC 7100 ('84 or '85) Lunchbox that works fine, but the backlight's gone. I also have a NEC XT laptop (don't remember the model) that has a screen in beautiful shape, backlight and all. I should imagine that the cables feeding the display would be a weak link. manney(a)nwohio.com

28 years, 1 month

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Ohio Freebies Available!

by kyrrin2＠wizards.net

Found on Usenet. Contact this fellow directly if you can give his offerings a well-deserved home. -=-=- <snip> -=-=-= Path: Supernews70!Supernews73!supernews.com!howland.erols.net!ais.net!news.ais.net.POSTED!not-for-mail From: devnull(a)pobox.com (devnull) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: free stuff (not spam!) Message-ID: <34ead60c.10785016(a)news.ais.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 47 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 06:00:56 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: dyn-tc01-73.chi.ais.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 00:00:56 CST Xref: Supernews70 alt.sys.pdp11:3016 * * * FOR SALE OR DONATION * * * Due to increasing financial and other pressures, I am being forced to get rid of a substantial part of my Computer Collection. Most of this stuff is heavy and bulky, so any local pickup that can be arranged would be strongly preferred. I will deliver to you in the area, but most of this stuff simply cannot be shipped. If there is an individual part or board you want, and you want to pay for shipping, I will do my best to make that happen for you. I will accept any amount of money for any given item, or I will accept no money. If you are in the area or coming here to pick something up, it probably wouldn't hurt to buy me a burrito or something, as its going to hurt to part with some of this junk. My only condition is that this equipment goes to a collector (at least someone who appreciates the item) and not to the junk heap. I have spent far too much time and effort preserving what little I do have to allow this stuff to meet its end that way now. I am in the Chicago, Illinois area. Please contact me through email at devnull(a)pobox.com. Here is a partial listing, I can search for specifics if you like. Best Bet would be to come on by and take a look: PDP 11/04 Computer with unknown boards. DEC TU60 DECASSETTE DRIVE AED 6200P quad-8" Floppy drive, I believe with PDP11 interface (unbelievably heavy) (Qty3) PDP-11 in BA23 enclosure (tower) [two 11/23, one 11/53] DEC TK25 tape drive (various parts of) External RD52 Drives Various Quadbus and Unibus PDP boards (list is being compiled) Various Cables from above systems 3 good size boxes of repair manuals from Tandy repair shop [mostly Panasonic Printers, Sony Monitors, Tandy stuff] Ohio Scientific Challenger TI Silent 700s Various 8 bit systems/parts Lots of 1200 baud modems -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin2 {at} wiz<ards> d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

28 years, 1 month

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Remember that thread on MFM harddisk noise?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-02-16 15:09:50 EST, you write: << BTW, I'm gonna run Norton Calibrate over it, just to see if it's toast or not... >> ...or you could always call debug and low level format it after it's warmed up. i have revived many mfm drives by doing so. most of them get a second life! david

28 years, 1 month

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New Finds

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Well it's been a busy weekend went to a Hamfest/Computer Swap this Saturday in Blaine MN and got a Mac IIx for $25 unit works great has 16meg of memmory and was loaded with good software and system 7.1; a NEC APCIV PowerMate portable that works great for $10; a Mac LC475 new case for $1; and alot of notebook power supplies for $1 each. A Commodore 1802 monitor in great shape for $20 at Goodwill; a Compaq 286e with KB, mono VGA monitor for $12.50 and it works great with 4 meg of memory, 42 meg HD with nice software on it; a Hyperion model 3012 with a nice carrying case, a ram upgrade in one of the case pockets and a owners' manual will be firing this one up later tonight; a IBM 6091-19 monitor for $15 can't it to work with my RS6000 box. I still have a pickup load of stuff to open and see what I have purchased over the last few days, will update later. Well Keep Computing - John

28 years, 1 month

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System/34 contd.

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Well, if you could post the power specs, power cord pinouts, etc... Also, if there is a main board, how much power does it need? >From: Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk >To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Subject: Re[2]: System/34 contd. > >The mail software crashed while I was typing this. Oh well, try >again... > >> I doubt I will be using the thing because it needs a 220-volt plug, >> which there are at my school, but noone would let me put it in their >> room. There isn't any space in my apartment either :). Could I >> somehow wire to 110-volt plugs to get 220? If there is some kind of > >You can try it if you like, but you'd far better notter! > >Seriously, in most (afaik) homes/schools/offices in the US, it is >possible to find 230V between the live terminals of two suitably chosen >sockets. But this is not recommended. In particular, you cannot >connect the output voltages of two randomly chosen sockets in series >and expect the wiring to survive... > >I'd recommend a 110/220V transformer. They do exist and they are not >very difficult to find. It may also be possible to modify the PSU. >Don't give up that soon! > >> "getting started" thing, photocopies would be fun, just to look at... > >I may have spare copies of some pocket reference guides. There is one >for the OS (about 1/2 inch thick) and one for the assembler at least. I >shall have a look - eventually! > >Philip. > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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I am also a Glad Cromemeco User System 2

by IMoeschel＠t-online.de

Hi just wont to say hello fro Germany. That I have a Cromemco System 2 to in Use (But lack of Software) Also 10 MB or I believe 5 MB HDD is not working correctly It would be nice if we could xchange Info on these Very Huge and Old Computers >>>>32 Bit in 1995 I don't think so Cromix 1977 <<<<<<< Thanx Ingo

28 years, 1 month

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I got an Apple ProFile hard drive.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Remember, all older MFM, ESDI and some early SCSI drives always need <annual or bi yearly LLF job. I have a st506 that I formatted once and never again and it still works fine. I do however run a program that checks it for bad sectors, haven't found many over the years. The need for reformats is urban legend and I have a bunch of RD52/53/54(mfm) and a potload of st506 and st412 drives that haven't been reformatted unless moved to a different system where the controller was incompatable with the former format. However to qualify that I've seen many systems with power down problems where they would write garbage to the disk causeing a need for reformats. I've also seen system with power and heat problems. Optimally the drive should run over a narrow temperature range that is centered at the temperature they were formatted at. most time they are asked to run much hotter and that means the stepper is not centered on the thermally repostioned tracks. This can be made worse by reformatting the drive as cold as it will warm up and all the track centering will be off leading to errors and a likely reformat. Later voicecoil and other servo positioned drives are immune to this as the servo track or embedded servo information will insure it tracks with temperature and bearing wear. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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Free in Portland area DSSI drives

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

I know someone with 4+ DEC DSSI drives, you haul them away. Contact me if interested. | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 1 month

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RSTS/E on a PDP-11?

by rcini＠email.msn.com

As part of my recent haul from Temple Univ., I got two versions of RSTS/E. I can't seem to get my PDP-11/34 to read the disk packs. Can RSTS/E be used on an 11/34? If not, does anyone want these packs? Also, the LA100/180 boards and the Printronix boards are up for grabs. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 1 month

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Xerox Daybreak hard disk connector

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

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28 years, 1 month

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rom

by DRR＠NE.INFI.NET

I have the roms for ZWX-0248-62 if that will help you. (Zenith 286)

28 years, 1 month

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Remeber that thread on MFM harddisk noises?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Those .wav file are now online, at http://209.174.127.164/stuff/ The trailing / is important, the DNS is still broken {grumble grumble...} spinup.wav is the drive spinning up, hdd.wav is the normal operation. There's 900KB and 750KB. Have fun! Oh, and you get to hear me in those... -------

28 years, 1 month

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Remember that thread on MFM harddisk noise?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

This one's VERY interesting... Shop teacher brings up a 486 with a dead harddisk. Opening it reveals a full-height, 350mb MFM harddisk. Atasi model 630. It looks like an RD53, it even has the little spinner underneath that looks like a fan... Anyway, he's got the control cable half-on, and backwards, and the drive params are greviously wrong. So I reseat the cable, set the prarams, connect the power to the drive and power the machine on. Spin up sounds normal, until the heads load... CH-THUNK -BUZZZZZ- CRRARRRGGGH BUZZ- CLUNK - ETC. THe drive sounds like it's come apart inside! But it apprears to be working... So I boot DOS from it and load defrag. Quite a few bad sectors. Defrag gets underway. CH-CLUNK BUZZZZ CRRRAAAARRRGH etc. This doesn't sound good... But the drive is still working fine! It's dancing across the table as it goes, but it seems to be working fine... So now I'm gonna make a .wav of this, this sounds really great... Expect it online sometime soon! BTW, I'm gonna run Norton Calibrate over it, just to see if it's toast or not... -------

28 years, 1 month

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BBC Model B - video help

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

No, we're talking rock-steady picture, but garbled If the cursor is at the bottom 1/2 of the (logical) screen, you NEVER see what you're typing If its at the top half, you see about 20x what you're typing. Its definitely not a TV adjustment problem. Thanks, though! Andrew >Hi Andrew: >Here is what I would look for and try to adjust --- Horizontal >frequency. >This sounds like it is some multiple of the desired (for the monitor) >rate. That's what's getting the multiple images across the width of the >screen. >Also (maybe first, but definitely in conjunction with the above) look >for 'Vertical' frequency/lock. This one is what is getting you multiple >images in the vertical direction. Memory says that the adjustment is >"roll down (image) and just return the adjustment the other direction >till it locks in place." >The 'horizontal lock' is a much courser adjustment. > >(This is all standard TV/Monitor adjustment stuff. If anyone has any >specific advice different from this, by all means, give it a try.)

28 years, 1 month

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LCD life

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Robinson!)...is there any point to having a screen saver on a machine wit <an LCD display? That is, is there any advantage to having the LCD pixels <all black (or black with a distraction running around the screen) as <opposed to steady, showing the last thing you did? < - Mark LCD life is way out there in hours if one proviso is met at the design level. NONE of the elements should see a DC bias of any sort, failure to meet that requirement insures destruction by deplating the elements and contaminating the LC fluid. High temperatures can be destructive as well. My experience I have a 18 year old 5x7x16 pannel that still works great. Allison

28 years, 1 month

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disk equals license (soon: horse flogging)

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Roger Merchberger <zmerch(a)northernway.net> wrote: >You're both right, in a way. >John H.: Chuck the disks, give up license. Yup. >John F.: The upgrade disks require a license to previous software -- you >now essentially have two linked licenses >Is the license bound to *all* of the media? To me, the problem is with the person who finds the software in the dumpster and assumes that equals a license. It's not. The original owner might've even been told by Autodesk to destroy their old media. I can't see why the license owner shouldn't be free to do that, and although I love to read the fine print, I do not recall ever seeing language to that effect. To argue otherwise would only encourage rampant pack-rat-ism. Of course, members of this mailing list don't need an extra dose of that. :-) "James L. Rice" <jrice(a)texoma.net> wrote: >AutoDesk requires you to trade the original disks from the previous >version at the dealer to order the upgrade. I think they did once upon a time. Today they tend to use dongles to protect software, so there's no way to use dumpster software as-is. Uncle Roger <sinasohn(a)ricochet.net> wrote: >Now, let's say, we've both upgraded, and I give him back his original >disks. Am I now a pirate? Was I a pirate before? Or was he the pirate >before? It can depend on the company policy. Some companies are happy to take money from anyone - legit owner or not - when it comes to upgrades. Others are more careful about tracking serial numbers and might not allow the upgrade. - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years, 1 month

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64K kernel on C64

by mallison＠konnections.com

To whom it concerns: I'm forwarding this info on C64 stuff. I apologize upfront for quoting this rather large faq. You may drown me in beer at our next meeting... -Mike Adam Bauer wrote: > > As for the argument that you can't have a decent kernel in 64K, here is > Lunix, Linux for C64's.. > > http://wwwcip.rus.uni-stuttgart.de/~etk10217/lunix/lunix.html > (mirror) http://www.kuai.se/~mage/lunix/ > > While it does serve as an inspiration, maybe we can steal^H^H^H^H^Hborrow > some source? > > --- snip from README --- > > .d#M*#MHb\ > M? dH*" `Hb. > TM. ,MH' `M| > 9b. .MH' JM: LUnix-Version 0.1 patchlevel 3b > ?M, HM' ?M' =============================== > `*M#ML___.__,o#H'' Oct 5, 1996 > HH'"'"""*"'' > :M' > HP ,/# > |M' ,. `"` > dH .H .. .o. .ov\o\ ., .o, > ,, > ___. JM' d| H' ``dP `\. |? `H, > .d#' > .dM#**HMq\. ,MT ,P JT -M| || & `H? > ?M' > JP' ``9H\?M' || .H' M| || 6 `9b. ,HH' > MR `9M6 :? |M M| || M ?H, ?M' > HM JM*H\ `booov="9? M| || 9. `MHH" > `Hb. _dH' `*9b\. " |MT H. || ,HP>&o. > `#H###H"' `*##\. `' ' .,H*' `Hb. > `"#Hb\_ _?#*'' > "*&#o > "*Hbbo\__ __oo##*"" > "' > Index `"'***M=###booooobd##&*"""" > ============ ""' > > 1. What the hell is LUnix ? > > 2. How to start LUnix ? > > 3. Files/Applications comming with LUnix > > 3.1 The LUnix-Shell (sh0.exe, the default-shell) > 3.2 The LUnix-Netdriver > 3.3 The LUnix debugger LDB > > 4. Where can i get the lastest version of LUnix and/or updates, patches ? > > 5. Can i write my own LUnix-applications ? > > -------=============#####################################==============---- > --- > > 1. What the hell is LUnix ???? > ============================== > > LUnix is a new operating system for the Commodore64 (or C128 in C64-mode). > I started writing LUnix in 1994. The system core is a minimal > implementation of a multitasker. I followed an idea of A. Einstein, > who said: > > "Make is as simple as possible, but not simpler" > > I'd say LUnix tends to be a little bit too simple :-) > > - LUnix is a operating system for the C64 (no hardware expansions > required) > (LUnix stands for "little UNIX", well don't expect too much :) > LUnix doesn't support additional hardware yet, the next version will > be able to support external RAM (assuming someone will write a > modul/driver > for it). > > - LUnix provides real multitasking, so there can be more than one process > at a time. (Up to 32 processes. LUnix can't swap out stopped processes, > so all of them must fit into main memory at once. The next version will > support process-data in external RAM) > > - Using the termial-server "term9600" you can connect a terminal (via > RS232) > to your C64 and have a second user online on your C64. > > - Dynamic memory management. (only internal memory, bank0) > > - A small kernal but multipurpose. (well i hope so :-) > > What for, why ?? > ================ > > A real C64-freak always wants to do the impossible, thats one of > the main reasons, why i started writing LUnix. Many peaople think, that > UNIX (multitasking/multiuser) can only run on big workstations with lots > of megabytes RAM and gigabytes of discspace. I want to have (a kind of) > UNIX on my little C64, having only 64kbyte and a normal > 171kbyte-1541floppy. > My dream would be, that people agree with me, that this isn't only fun > but also makes sense. > > 2. How to start LUnix : > ======================= > > Get the archivefile "lunix01p3b.c64" into your C64 and run it. Its a self > extracting archive. Start it like a normal basic-programm, it will then > save all the lunix-files to device 8 of your C64 (e.g. your 1541-floppy). > After all the files have been extracted, you can start LUnix by using > the boot(-BASIC)-programm called "loader". > > load"lunix01p3b.c64",8 > ... > run > > then > > load"loader",8 > ... > run > > and follow the prompts. > > 3. Files comming with LUnix: > ============================ > > Systemfiles > ----------- > > loader o A BASIC programm that loads and starts LUnix. > > lunix.sys o The LUnix system core. > > bootdrv.drv o The bootdriver that the system will use to load the > first > command shell. > > init.exe o The screen manager (console) > > 3.1 Applications > ---------------- > > sh0.exe - sh0.exe > > Invokes another (sub-) command shell. > > a1541 - a1541 > Replaces the normal disc-driver by a > IRQ-loader. > You must enable this driver before accessing > the > RS232. (eg. before running "term9600"). > > cat * cat <file> > > Prints a file to stdout. > > cd * cd <directory> > > Changes the working directory. > > count - count > > Counts up from <000> to <255> and put the > numbers > to stdout. Just makes some noise :) > > disk * disk > > Prints the disk-status information to stdout. > > echo * echo <text> > > Prints text to stdout. > > hexconv - ... ! hexconv > > Converts decimal numbers from stdin > to > hex-numbers (stdout). Usable as a > filter. > E.g. "ps ! hexconv" > >> A "!" separates two (or more) commands so that > the > output of the first command will be used as > input > of the second command. > > kill - kill <pid> > > Kills a process. (PID=Process IDentification). > You > can get the PIDs by using the "ps"-command. > > ldb - ldb > > LUnix debugger. Details about its usage below. > > ls * ls [-l] > > Prints the disk-directory to stdout. > > man - man > > Prints a very little manual to stdout. > > mem - mem > > Prints a little statistic about the > system-memory > usage. > > memfree - memfree & > > Shows the amount of free memory in the > right > corner of the screen. You should start it > this > way: "memfree &" > > >> The "&" at the and of a line means that > the > command will run in the background and the > shell > won't wait till the execution is > completed. > > mirror - ... ! mirror > > It will mirror lines from stdin and put > them > (mirrored) to the stdout. (should only be > used > in combination with "!"). > > more * ... ! more > > Pass stdin to stdout, asks for a key > after > printing 11 lines. > > net.drv - net.drv <NID> > > Enables access to a local C64/128 > network. > (NID=Network IDentification of the local > computer). > > netstat - netstat > > Prints statistics about the C64/128 network. > > prim - prim <a>,<n> > > Prints n prime numbers beginning with a. > > ps - ps [-la] > Prints a report about (-a -> "all") processes > in > the system. The option "-l" will make 'ps' do > this > in a more detailed way. > > reboot * reboot > > Causes a RESET of the computer. > > renice * renice [<PID>[,<pri>]] > > Prints/changes the priority of a process. > > rm * rm <file> > > Removes (deletes) a file. > > rsh - rsh <NID> > Calls for a shell on an other computer (NID) > in > the C64/128-net. > > rshserv - rshserv [-v] & > > Shellserver, serves shells to other computers > in > the C64/128-net. (Up to 4 at a time) > > tee * tee <file> > > Writes stdin to a file. > > term9600 - term9600 [-v] & > > Terminalserver, serves shells to a > terminal > connected to the RS232. (uses a special > userport- > RS232-interface 9600Baud 8N1). Never forget > to > start "a1541" before starting the > terminal- > server !!! > > top - top > > Examines the system and print a sorted list > of > processes and their use of CPU time. SPACE > will > restart the examination, any other key ends > top. > > wc - ... ! wc > > Counts chars, words and line from stdin and > prints > a report to stdout. > > write - write [-q] <PID> > > Writes a massage to an other shell (PID of > that > shell has to be specified). CTRL+D ends > write. > > Remarks > ------- > > o = file can't be used as a LUnix command. > - = commands written by the author himself. > * = commands written by Paul Gardner from australia. > > As you might have noticed, there are no (very) usefull applications. > (exept ldb) Thats because i don't have that much fun writing applications > than writing kernel-code :-) > Usefull may be writing the directory into a file "ls ! tee filename" or > calculating some primenumbers and write them into a file > "prim 100,10 ! tee primenumers". Maybe you find it usefull to > translate all decimals in a textfile into hexadecimals, this would be > no problem "cat infile ! hexconv ! tee outfile". > > I plan to write a TCP/IP-stack for the next version of LUnix, that > would be something quite usefull i think. > > 3.2 The command shell (sh0.exe) > =============================== > > <command> > will load and execute a command, wait till its done. > > <command> ! <command> { ! <command> } > load all and execute them parallel, passing stdout of the first to stdin > of the second command and so on, wait till the last command is done. > > ... & > A "&" at the end of a command line lets the shell go on without waiting > till the command line is done. > > exit or CTRL+d > Ends a shell. > ( CTRL+d is the EOF0"end of file" charakter, it also ends wc, write, > hexconv,..) > > 3.3 The LUnix-net-driver : > ========================== > > The net-driver lets you connect up to 6 C64/128 all running > LUnix. > It sends and receives datapackets. There can be several virtual > connections > between all stations of the net at the same time. > The only service that is implemented yet, is a shell-serving process, > it > allows remote shells (up to 4 per computer). > (The net-sytem supports up to 7 services). > > What do i need to run this net-driver ? > --------------------------------------- > > - You should have at least one C64/128 > (but you'll have much more fun, if there are more of them) > > - You need at least LUnix_v0.1p2 . > and the following files : "net.drv","rshserv","rsh","netstat" > you can get all of them (and even more) for free through > the Internet (a list of addresses is appended to this file) > > - And you need a suitable cable ! (if you use more than 1 C64 :) > You have to connect (at least) GND, PB0, PB1, PB2, PB3, PB6 > (all from the C64's userport) of all C64 in the net, the software > supports up to 6 C64 (or C128) in the net. > > *** if you have only one discdrive you'll need a switch to connect/ > disconnect one of the pins to ground (eg. PB0). > Use a little resistor (about 470-1000 Ohms) to connect the > certain pin to ground. > If the connection is switched 'ON' all the communication > in the net is disabled. > > How to start it : > ----------------- > > - First unplug all the computers and discdrives/monitors... > > - Then connect the userport-pins (you should try to connect each GND-pin > first) > > *** only one discdrive: connect GND to the discdrive (!),to > prevent damage when connecting/disconnecting it to one computer > after the other later. > > - Now shitch them all on. > > - Load and start LUnix, > press 'add a session' ,type "net.drv X" X is the ID of the station. > This ID ranges from 1 to 6 (don't use the same ID twice !) > Then enable logins from other computers to this computer by starting > the remote-shell-server process by typing 'rshserv -v &' > (-v is not neccessary). > <-do this with every computer you have connected . > > Thats it ! The net is now active. > > How to use the net > ------------------ > > You can use the net to execute shells on other (or the local) computer. > > Just type "rsh X" (X- is the ID of the destination computer) > and you should get a 'remote shell' from that computer to work with :) > The actual 'rshserv' process enables up to 4 remote-logins at a time > (it doesn't matter from what computer you are calling) > > Type 'exit' to logout again. > > *** only one discdrive: > You can use one of the computer to work as server (this will be > the only computer with a discdrive later) > You just have to start "rsh"s on the other computer in direction > to the server. > But how to do that, if there is only on discdrive available ? > Thats what the mentioned shitch is for ! > > Switch 'ON' (and block all net actions), then connect the > discdrive to > one of the other computers and type "rsh Y" (Y is the servers ID) > connect the drive to the next computer...and so on...then connect > the > discdrive to the 'server' and switch 'OFF' !...... > > 3.4 ldb - LUnix debugger version 1.0 > ==================================== > > Available (commandline-) commands: > > b > break > Send character (ascii code 3) to debugged process. > > c > continue > Continue process (CTRL+s stopps it) > > d [[ mid: ] address ] > disassemble > Disassemble process-code (or any other memory address). > With no argument d continues disassembling at the last position. > Default for mid is the process' mid. > Address is the relative address in the mid-memory area or, if no > mid is given the address is relative/absolute/original to the > process' startaddress (as defined by the used with the 'm'-command). > > f dev:filename > file > Load exacutable file for debugging. > > h [[ mid: ] address ] > hexdump > Print a hexdump, syntax like 'd' > > i > info > Print process information > > m[aro] > mode > ma absolute memory addresses > mr relative memory addresses > mo original memory addresses > (display mode of disassembler) > > r [ args ] > run > Run a loaded process with 'args' as commandline parameters. > > s #signum > signal > Sends signal #signum to debugged process. > > t > tick > Lets the debugged process run for exactly one time slice. > (or till there is a 'jsr$$9012' in the code, wich can be used > like breakpoints for debugging) > NOTE: ldb waits till the process is interrupted while running > (if the process is blocked ldb will wait till it is > unblocked again) > > examples: > --------- > > @> ldb > LUnix Debug Version 1.0 > by Poldi 4.3.1996 > ldb> f @:prim { load 'prim' } > ldb> r 10000,10 { prim 10000,10 } > ldb> i {info} > pc=38:0046 sr=00 a=00 x=00 y=00 > { mid:reladr ,status register,akku,x-register,y-register } > stack 17 90 > { $9018=suicide is the return-address, if there is a rts } > zp 57 8d 38 35 30 3a 8e 00 59 2f 8d > { zero page starting with address $57: ...10 bytes } > ldb> d 38:46 > { begin disassembling at pc=38:0046 taken from info } > $c846 lda#$c8 > $c848 jsr$$9051 > $c84b jmp$$c991 > $c84e rts > $c84f lda#$00 > $c851 sta$$59 > $c853 sta$$5a > $c855 sta$$5b > $c857 sta$$5c > $c859 ldii$57 > ldb> mr { switch to relative-address-mode } > ldb> h 0 { hexdump starting at relative addr. 0 } > $0000 38 f5 fa fa 00 00 00 00 8UZZ.... > $0008 00 46 00 00 00 00 00 00 .f...... > $0010 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $0018 00 00 4c 1b 90 00 00 00 ..l..... > $0020 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $0028 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $0030 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $0038 50 52 49 4d 00 00 00 00 prim.... { 'prim' CMD name in the file } > $0040 17 27 00 00 80 00 a9 c8 .'....)h > $0048 20 51 90 4c 91 39 60 a9 q.l.9@) > ldb> f @:ldb { load 'ldb' } > ldb> mo { switch to original address-mode } > ldb> d { disassemble code } > $7000 38 00 00 00 40 57 06 00 8...@w.. > $7008 1c 40 00 00 00 00 00 00 .@...... > $7010 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $7018 00 00 4c 48 70 4c 52 70 ..lhPlrP > $7020 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $7028 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $7030 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $7038 4c 44 42 00 00 00 00 00 ldb..... > $7040 lda#$70 > $7042 jsr$$9051 > ldb> d { continue disassembling } > $7045 jmp$$79aa > $7048 se i > $7049 lda#$03 > $704b ldx$$7001 > $704e jsr$$902d > $7051 rti > $7052 jmp$$901b > $7055 pjp$$70a2 > $7058 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 01234567 > $7060 38 39 41 42 43 44 45 46 89abcdef > ldb> d { continue disassembling } > $7068 01 04 07 0a 0d 10 13 16 ........ > $7070 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $7078 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $7080 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $7088 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $7090 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $7098 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $70a0 00 00 .. > $70a2 and#$3f > $70a4 = $$70d2 > ldb> d { continue disassembling } > $70a6 cmp#$20 > $70a8 bcs$$70ac > $70aa ora#$40 > $70ac jsr$$9069 > $70af bcc$$70d2 > $70b1 jsr$$70b7 > $70b4 jmp$$901b > $70b7 bit$$7071 > $70ba bpl$$70d2 > $70bc lda$$7075 > ---------------------------------------- > ldb> f @:prim { load file 'prim' } > ldb> r 10000,10 { exec 'prim 10000,10' } > ldb> i { info } > pc=2d:0046 sr=00 a=00 x=00 y=00 > stack 17 90 > zp 57 38 a9 20 20 ac 38 a6 57 e8 86 > ldb> t { let prim run for one tick } > ldb> i { print info agin } > pc=2d:0170 sr=23 a=00 x=00 y=04 > stack 3d 2f 17 90 > zp 57 0a 00 d0 01 00 00 01 01 00 00 > ldb> t > ldb> i > pc=2d:0154 sr=23 a=00 x=00 y=07 > stack 3d 2f 17 90 > zp 57 0a 00 80 03 00 00 13 04 00 00 > ldb> t > ldb> i > pc=2d:0158 sr=23 a=00 x=00 y=02 > stack 3d 2f 17 90 > zp 57 0a 00 e4 00 00 00 af 01 00 00 > ldb> t > ldb> i > pc=2d:014b sr=22 a=ff x=00 y=0e > stack 3d 2f 17 90 > zp 57 0a 00 00 40 1c 00 17 27 00 00 > ldb> t > 10007 { a prime number calculated by prim after 5 ticks } > ldb> i > pc=2d:017b sr=21 a=00 x=09 y=04 > stack 3d 2f 17 90 > zp 57 09 00 60 02 00 00 79 01 00 00 > ldb> s > s #signum (1..16) > sends signal to process > ldb> s 7 { send signal 7 'killed parent' } > process doesn't support this signal > ldb> s 6 { send signal 6 'user break' } > ldb> t { another tick.. } > Process died { process caught the signal and ended } > ldb> i > No file loaded > ldb> x { exit from ldb .. back to shell } > @> > > disassembler notes: > ------------------- > The assemblersytax may look strange to you, because it is based on > an old assembler i wrote (it was easier to use it's disass-tables as > writing some new, wich i may do somewhen in future). > > lda#$12 > --- > parameter #12 is decimal, $12 hex, "a ascii, <label a label > the parameter may be preceeded by a l (low byte) or h (high > byte) eg. lda#l$1234 is the same as lda#$34 and > lda#h$1234 like lda#$12. > --- > the first 3 chars define the command (like lda,sta,inc,and,...) > - > the fourth char defines the addess-mode > # immediate > $ adr > x adr,x > y adr,y > ii (adr),y (third and fourth char 'i') > ix (adr,x) > > some examples: > lda#$23 is lda #$23 > lda$$23 is lda $23 > lda$$1234 is lda $1234 > ldii$a2 is lda ($a2),y > ldax$c000 is lda $c000,x > adcx$c080 is adc $c080,x > + ii$bf is adc ($bf),y > = $$1234 is beq $1234 > <> $$1234 is bne $1234 > pjp$$1234 is byte $0c; word $1234 > jsr$$9012 is jsr $9012 > > 4. Where can i get the lastest version of LUnix and/or updates, patches ? > ========================================================================= > > WWW: > > LUnix-homepage > http://wwwcip.rus.uni-stuttgart.de/~etk10217/c64.html > or > http://wwwcip.rus.uni-stuttgart.de/~etk10217/lunix.html > > There also is additional information about the kernel-structure. > > FTP: > > ftp://ftp.uni-hildesheim.de/pub/... > ftp://ftp.giga.or.at/pub/c64/... > > If you need support, or have some questions/remarks/suggestions write > an email to me. > > eMail: Daniel.Dallmann(a)studbox.uni-stuttgart.de > > 5. Can i write my own applications ? > ==================================== > > Of course you can ! But you have to take care of some simple rules. > A LUnix-application must have a special header, must be relocatable by > the system and mustn't access memory/hardware that may be used by other > applications or by the system. > (Applications may access hardware-directly because the kernel doesn't > provide the neccesary routines yet) > Details on how to write applications can be found on my WWW-page. > > If you want to use an other machine (linux/UNIX/amiga) for development, > you can use some tools i've written to help writing LUnix-applications. > > there is > luna: a 6502/10 cross-assembler > lupo: a preprocessor for assembler sources > lld: a linker for objectfiles created by luna > > All you need is a C-compiler (i used the GNU-C-Compiler "gcc") to built > the executables. (Thanks to Stefan Haubenthal there is a compiled > version for AMIGA). > > Everyone, who wants to do something for LUnix is welcomned and will get > all information needed (just contact me). > > If you already played around with LUnix and wrote some little applications > *please* send them to me, i'll include them into the patchlevel 3c > release. > > In fact LUnix0.1 is quite limited, thats why i'm working on a new version. > But it won't be released before 1997 (i'm not that far). If someone > likes to have more information on the next release, or better has some > suggestions, look at my WWW-page or write an (e)Mail. > > ...and, don't forget: > HAVE FUN !! > > --- snip from README ---

28 years, 1 month

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System/34 contd.

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

The mail software crashed while I was typing this. Oh well, try again... > I doubt I will be using the thing because it needs a 220-volt plug, > which there are at my school, but noone would let me put it in their > room. There isn't any space in my apartment either :). Could I > somehow wire to 110-volt plugs to get 220? If there is some kind of You can try it if you like, but you'd far better notter! Seriously, in most (afaik) homes/schools/offices in the US, it is possible to find 230V between the live terminals of two suitably chosen sockets. But this is not recommended. In particular, you cannot connect the output voltages of two randomly chosen sockets in series and expect the wiring to survive... I'd recommend a 110/220V transformer. They do exist and they are not very difficult to find. It may also be possible to modify the PSU. Don't give up that soon! > "getting started" thing, photocopies would be fun, just to look at... I may have spare copies of some pocket reference guides. There is one for the OS (about 1/2 inch thick) and one for the assembler at least. I shall have a look - eventually! Philip.

28 years, 1 month

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9370 is a dog! Was: Re: Re[2]: Firsts

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

Sorry to take so long replying - I have been away for a week doing various things (Job interview, visit parents, fail to mend car, etc.). One of the advantages of being away is that a couple of dozen messages after a question I think I could answer, somebody else answers it for me! Far less typing to do! > Certainly more _fun_ than some of the films that have been released for > sure! The wife will not agree though. But if one of us had a large old > S/360 or S/370 in our basements, the power consumption would financially > kill us (because of the water chillers for cooling, current consumption > of older technology electronics, etc.) I'd love to even _see_ a large > S/360 and all its utilities. Possibly. But I'm not convinced. I seem to remember the biggest IBM 3090 system drew about 250kW (I'll have to look that up too!). I imagine a typical system might draw perhaps 50kW. The biggest problem with this is the supply to your house - few can manage more than 25kW. At 8c per kWh, 50kW is $4 per hour - cheap enough to run for an evening a month, say. > Only one 8 Meg board installed. Maximum, IIRC, was 16 Mb storage. DASD was > probably used as workstation storage. Philip, can you confirm any of this > from your sales literature? If you're interested, William, I can give you > the lineup of PC board modules in the CPU which I briefly talked about > earlier in the thread. 9373 (9370 model 20) was 4 MB expandable to 16 MB; all the others were 8MB, expandable to 16 MB. However, only the 9377 (model 90) had a 64-bit data path; all the others were 32 bit, so I suspect the 4 meg card would work in the 9375. But there's no knowing, with IBM. I see on this page there is a comparison "not fully verified by IBM" by an outside agency, comparing 370 machines with Vaxen. A 9373 is slower than a microvax II; a 9377, rather faster than a Vax 8650, reaching nearly 0.8 Mflop. The 4381 - another low(ish) end 370 - had three models listed, up to around 1.2 Mflop for the model 13. (At least IBM didn't try and claim twice this for the model 14, which is two 13s back-to-back). Philip

28 years, 1 month

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LCD life

by mtapley＠swri.edu

All, This discussion got me thinking (uh oh... Danger, Will Robinson!)...is there any point to having a screen saver on a machine with an LCD display? That is, is there any advantage to having the LCD pixels all black (or black with a distraction running around the screen) as opposed to steady, showing the last thing you did? - Mark

28 years, 1 month

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System/34 contd.

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:04:14 -0800 >Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu >From: "Daniel A. Seagraves" <DSEAGRAV(a)toad.xkl.com> >To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Subject: Re: System/34 contd. > >[loss of manuals....] > >That's OK, I have most of the manuals. Anything specific? >I can't let them go, they're only copies, but I can post anything specific you may be needing... I doubt I will be using the thing because it needs a 220-volt plug, which there are at my school, but noone would let me put it in their room. There isn't any space in my apartment either :). Could I somehow wire to 110-volt plugs to get 220? If there is some kind of "getting started" thing, photocopies would be fun, just to look at... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 1 month

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Apple //gs boot problem

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Sun, 15 Feb 1998 08:26:06 -0500, "kroma" <kroma(a)worldnet.att.net> wrote: >>Do you turn the HD on first and let it warm up for about 30 seconds, before >>you turn on the GS? Turned-on, yes. Warmed-up for 30s, no. The drive did finish it's power-on sequence and came to a rest, though, which happens in less than 30s. Does the GS/OS use a special boot block like the MS-DOS boot sector, or does it just look for the ProDOS file? Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 1 month

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MORE Freebies! Come and get 'em!

by kyrrin2＠wizards.net

OK, more freebies! What can I say? I really need the space. ;-) Once again, LOCAL PICKUP ONLY, KENT, WA (Near Seattle). There's no way I have the resources to ship this stuff. 1). At least 20 RL02 disk packs, one of which is the DEC Diagnostics kit for VAX11/730 and 750. There's also an RL02-based distribution kit for the VMS 5.4 upgrade, still in sealed boxes, with the license PAK and release notes. I also saw some RT11 ver. 5.1 packs. 2). A pair of RL02 disk drives, installed in a mini-rack. I'm keeping the Micro PDP-11/73 that was in the same rack, but I'll throw in the QBus RL controller. There may be some documentation I'll pass on as well -- I'll decide that when whoever comes by to get the stuff does so. Drop me an E-mail if you're interested and we'll set up a date. Thanks in advance! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2(a)wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 1 month

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Linux, Apache, Scripting books (Off-Topic)

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hi. I'm getting really interested in setting up a fairly good web server, and I want to learn all (most) about Linux, Apache, and CGI/Java scripting. What's needed, etc. If anyone could recommend some books, and, if they've got the ISBN's so I can find 'em.... Thanks again, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 2 months

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Convex C3200 computer (Melbourne)

by adam＠merlin.net.au

Spotted this message today - I imagine that they don't appear too often. :) >We have a huge Convex C3200 computer (it would have been termed >a supercomputer when it was new). It's basically worthless to us. > >Best offer thanks, and you pay for the transport. It weighs lots. > >It has 4 IPI disk drives, a DLT tape unit (x4) a versatec VME plotter >plus, the all time favorite, one of those reel to reel tape units. >(Storage tec 90, 2920 model). What is it? Is it the sort of thing that desperatly needs saving? I probably can't pick it up myself, as it is in the wrong state and I suspect a car with a trailer may still have trouble bringing it back, but I hope there is someone here from Melbourne or Sydney who can handle it. :) Adam.

28 years, 2 months

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Another successful "shopping" stip to Temple Univ.

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all... I went "shopping" at the Temple University Elephant Graveyard again this Friday. Here's what I got, and here's what's left: 1. Misc. boards: LA100 and LA180 logic boards, MDB DB-11, unknown Printronix board (has IM6402 processor, PCB# 104801-002 Rev A. What's that one for?) 2. M7269, M8256, M9312 3. DEC 60833 cable (console cable??) 4. software: DEC 3000 AXP MUP CD and manual (for the Alpha??) 5. IBM monochrome monitor 6. New RK05 filters and head cleaning kit 7. DB-11 and BA-11 manuals 8. PERTEC interface cable (Unibus to ??) 9. Kinetic Systems PDP-11 Crate Controller Model 3912-Z1E (what's this for?) 10. RK05 disk packs: Blank RK05 packs RT-11 System E (??) RT-11 Diagnostics RT-11 V3 SYS RK5 DISK 11/2/77 RT-11 V02C SOURCES 2/12/76 BASIC/RT-11 V01B 12/17/75 RSTS/E V6C RSXRMS LIB RK5 1/26/78 RSTS/E V7.0 RSX RTX LIB RK5 1979 11. IBM Fortran manual {no disks :-( } A quick look reveals that they have the following left (not including two documents/small parts rooms that I *still* have not been able to get to): many 11/23s, two or three 11/34s, many RL01/02 disk packs, several 6' and 4' racks, several ASR33s, boxes and boxes of uncategorized parts, terminals, VMS manuals, TK58 tape drive parts (should have taken them this trip, but didn't), BA23 cabinets, Cipher tape drives, 3 or 4 uVax-Is, several RX01/02 drives, RK05 drives, RL01/02 drives, other crap too numerous to mention. The guy there is taking a full inventory during spring break. Will post the inventory when available. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 2 months

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CLASSICCMP digest 324

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> Subject: Re: first bug was a myth >At 05:01 PM 2/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >>> I seem to remember a certain species of cockroach that was quite fond of >>> wire insulation... >> >>I really doubt that, sincd cockroaches eat human food. (Termites, maybe?) > Hey, I live in Florida where the cockroach is the state insect! I can >tell you for a fact that they eat EVERYTHING! If you think they only eat >human food then it's obvious that you've never lived in an area that has >roaches! > I have seen cloth covered wires stripped bare by roaches! I remember reading a specific article on this very subject and it went as far as to identify the various insects and their favorite electronic unit's comound, I thought it was silver fish that went for insulation but I could be wrong... Anyone else ever heard of this article... (I pick up sooo much trivia I have a hard time remembering the source...) -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our Commodore 64 BBS (Silicon Realms 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 2 months

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Disk problems/questions.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<With a 386 computer configured for B: =3D 360KB, a disk formatted in B: <seems fine with no error messages. BUT: running SCANDISK on said <newly-formatted 360KB diskette results in an error message: "Media <descriptor byte incorrect", and prompts for repair. The byte, before <and after repair, is hex FD. Has anyone else experienced this problem? I suspect the following: Disk controller board. Corrupted format program. Corrupted scandisk program. One test not mentioned (or i've forgotten) is do you get the same error on a disk formatted on a DIFFERENT PC? Allison

28 years, 2 months

2
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LCD life

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 2/15/98 1:42:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, higginbo(a)netpath.net writes: << I thought all the pixels that would go bad do so during the assembly process. Do they go bad on their own over time? -John Higginbotham- >> yes, on lcd displays such as what IBM thinkpads use, individual pixels can go bad. usually its not noticeable unless there is a solid colour on the screen and then you can usually see it. i had a thinkpad once and had maybe one or two burn out while i had it. like anything, they can go bad, but usually not very many and almost never several at once. david

28 years, 2 months

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Does NetBSD use the hardware clock differently?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Hmm... are VS3100m30's rechargable or what? Mine always seem to forget <the time after about 20 minutes off... Its 3 AA batteries in a bundle.. It three AAA or three AA (model dependent) NICADS, a source for those are replacement battereis used for some cordless phones. Do not substitute lithium cells or alkline cells as they will fail due to the charging circuit. They are charged with the system is running (12hours minimum). If they have been discharged for sometime then they will be dead. I take them out and charge them standalone. If they don't charge well new ones are substituted. FYI: they only keep the TOY(time of year) clock powered for 2 weeks to 1 month before going flat. The reason for that is not the TOY chip but nicads have lousy long term shelf life. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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A Good Joe

by manney＠nwohio.com

I just concluded a swap with Joe Rigdon (rigdonj(a)intellistar.net) and wish to mention that he followed through with his end promptly and completely. It is a pleasure to trade with him, and other persons on the list may feel confident in doing so. P Manney (manney(a)nwohio.com)

28 years, 2 months

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Disk problems/questions.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> seems fine with no error messages. BUT: running SCANDISK on said <> newly-formatted 360KB diskette results in an error message: "Media <> descriptor byte incorrect", and prompts for repair. The byte, before <> and after repair, is hex FD. Has anyone else experienced this problem? < <Barry, perhaps there is a problem with ScanDisk on 360K disks? < <If there is a problem, you would probably be able to find some informatio <about it in Microsoft's knowledge base. Go to their FTP site <(ftp.microsoft.com) and navigate from there. I'm sure Kai can supply a I have scandisk on my xt with two 360k drives here and it works just fine. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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IBM PC type 5150

by foxvideo＠wincom.net

I just picked up two of these at a thrift shop, 2 floppies, cassette jack, no hd. On the mounting plate of the floppy card is a female 37 contact 'D' connector. Can any one tell me what this was for? Regards Charlie Fox

28 years, 2 months

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Commie/Amiga Mouse Compatibility

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

I just hit the "quote button and had to wait several minutes for the digest to come up in the e-mail... Don't you hate when you do things like that... (:/) ----------------------------------------------------------- From: John Higginbotham <higginbo(a)netpath.net> Subject: Commie/Amiga compatibility > Just came across an Amiga/Atari switchable mouse, and was wondering if it > would also work on my C-64. Does anyone know if c-64 and amiga had the same > pinouts for the joystick port? > -John Higginbotham- > -limbo.netpath.net- Sorry but the mice are not compatible between the Amiga and the 64, the only pins that are the same are the joystick ones... You may want to check this site out: http://www.blackdown.org/~hwb/hwb.html This is the location for the Hardware Book, which lists a vast number of microcomputer pinouts as well as adapter wiring guides. ------------------------------------------------------------ -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our Commodore 64 BBS (Silicon Realms 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 2 months

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Memotech MTX500

by adam＠merlin.net.au

Hi! Another lucky find - a Memotech MTX500 for $2. :) Beautiful computer - aluminium case, nice looking external power supply, and black. Unfortunatly it didn't come with any software or manuals. Does anyone have a spare manual, or a couple of spare cassettes for it? i would like to see what it was capable of. :) Thanks heaps, Adam.

28 years, 2 months

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Disk problems/questions.

by wts＠exo.com

If I remember correctly, The 1.2M drive uses a track 1/2 the width of the 360K drive. If you format a disk and write data with the same drive, there is no problem. The 1.2 drive can read down the middle of a 360K fat track and all is OK. The 360K drive can read the 1.2M skinny track and all is probably OK. The problem comes in when you use a 1.2M drive to write on a diskette that was previously written by a 360K drive. The skinny track is now on top of the fat track. The 360K drive will certainly have problems. It will read the new data in addition to 1/2 of the old data. Regards, Tom Sanderson wts(a)exo.com http://exo.com/~wts/wts10005.HTM Virtual Altair Museum -----Original Message----- From: Mike Allison [SMTP:mallison@konnections.com] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 1998 9:53 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Disk problems/questions. I had an IBM 360k that I was using, no compliants. I started having data problems moving stuff from a true 1.2M to the 360. Later, I put a 360 in the other computer and I still had problems. Finally, I figured it out, the IBM was either out of alignment, or shot... Could it just simply be the 360k drive? -Mike Barry Peterson wrote: > > On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:27:01 -0500, you said: > > >Scandisk works excellent for me here even on my Leading Edge XT. It's > >something your doing not scandisk. > > Maybe it's a difference between the XT and AT BIOS or how the format > command is executed, I wasn't "doing" anything but: > > 1) format b: > (Responding to prompts as appropriate) > 2)scandisk b: > (Error message reported by said scandisk program) > > No parameters, no modifiers, nothing more than the above two commands > _______________ > > Barry Peterson bmpete(a)swbell.net > Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, > Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan.

28 years, 2 months

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Commie/Amiga compatibility

by higginbo＠netpath.net

Just came across an Amiga/Atari switchable mouse, and was wondering if it would also work on my C-64. Does anyone know if c-64 and amiga had the same pinouts for the joystick port? -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 2 months

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LCD life

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 11:00 AM 2/15/98 EST, you wrote: >the only thing i know that can happen to them is burned out pixels which is to >be expected, and not really that noticeable unless there are several clumped >together. I thought all the pixels that would go bad do so during the assembly process. Do they go bad on their own over time? -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 2 months

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DEC disk test sets

by jpl15＠netcom.com

With all the discussion of disk exercisers, now might be an appropriate time to post this stuff. I have found a number of DEC and DEC-associated test sets. I have three in my possesion and will wait to see if there is any response to get the rest of the units. They seem to be in good shape, w/manuals and adapter cables. I cant really *test* any of them because I don't own any of the drives they are for. O well..... I have here field test boxes for: RK07/07 TB216A (CDC) (2 available) RM03/05 (3 available) Also there are: DEC TDR Analyzer Wilson Labs SX-530 Disk Memory Exerciser Information Storage Tech. 7330 DDU Tester Memorex 800 Disc Storage System Tester (7 of these available) Memorex Mecanical Alignment Kit Magnetic Peripherals Field Test Unit TB3A2A for RM0 series (3 avail) DEC RM06/07 Carriage alignment tool DEC RM02/3/5 Head Carriage tools (2 avail) Condition of the devices I have in hand appears to be good, the others have not been inspected by me personally, but the owner says they're all about the same. Prices on these units: (US) $50? $75? More? Less? I am in Southern California. These devices are all in 'Zero'-type cases.. shipping should not be a problem. e-mail jpl15(a)netcom.com Cheers John

28 years, 2 months

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Disk Exerciser

by agammuto＠clark.net

Jim- Can you give me an update on the Sol 20? Thanks. A.P. Gammuto Maryland, USA www.konics.com

28 years, 2 months

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Disk Exerciser

by manney＠nwohio.com

I've never HEARD of a disk exerciser. What on earth is one for? Pushups? Situps? manney

28 years, 2 months

3
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LCD life

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 2/15/98 2:15:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, william(a)ans.net writes: << I was just thinking about future collectables like laptops, and I do have a question: Does anyone know how well LCDs hold up against time (provided, of course, that they are not cracked!)? >> the only thing i know that can happen to them is burned out pixels which is to be expected, and not really that noticeable unless there are several clumped together. david

28 years, 2 months

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Commie/Amiga compatibility

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 05:11 AM 2/12/98 +0000, you wrote: >No, it won't. One of my great disappointments. I've had it explained >to me but I can't recall why. That's an Amiga-Atari 'ST' mouse. >It wont work on an 8-bit atari neither Dang. So I'll have to buy an Amiga to use this mouse. (Yet another excuse to get another computer!) -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 2 months

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GP-IB (was Re: Atari 8-bit Find)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Which reminds me: why didn't IEEE-488 ever become a big hit in the Otherwise known as GPIB. <computer biz? It's been around since the 60's, is standard, has good <performance, has IC support, can handle a bunch of devices, etc., but it <became relagated to a niche of scientific instrument control for some <reason. The few chips to support it were slow, it used specialized cables and connectors and it was as costly to impliment as SCSI. As a future bus it didn't offer the speed potential. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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LCD life

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<>Does anyone know how well LCDs hold up against time (provided, of course <>that they are not cracked!)? There is no finite life assuming they havent been abused. My PX-8 is from around 85ish and still works great. I have a number of other small test gear that are older. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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Apple //gs boot problem

by kroma＠worldnet.att.net

> Here's the setup. CMS SCSI card to Miniscribe 20mb hard drive (old Mac >SE drive). GS/OS 6.0.1 diskettes used to setup the hard drive. All files >copied to hard drive with no errors; files are visible and runable from >GS/OS. Turning off the machine and turning it back on produces a "Check >startup device" error. Booting with the "no harddrive" GS/OS diskette works >fine. All required files are on the hard drive. > Do you turn the HD on first and let it warm up for about 30 seconds, before you turn on the GS? -- Kirk

28 years, 2 months

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Convex C3200 computer (Melbourne)

by adam＠merlin.net.au

>> >We have a huge Convex C3200 computer (it would have been termed >> >a supercomputer when it was new). It's basically worthless to us. > >So it probably can be had for the right price! Apparantly so. They have had tow offers for it - $200 from some scrap metal dealers, and a couple of cartons of beer from me. Apparantly mine is the best offer. >Those Convex machines are very nice looking, by the way - black and >yellow. And even if it is a bit old, it could still beat the hell out of >PeeCee in the performance department. That's the bit which sold me - I have a thing for black computers. :) >In any case, someone please grab it. It looks like I might be doing so after all. Any idea about what I could do with such a beast? I know that it would be wasted on me - I would be unable to push it at all - but I will keep it until someone who can really use it shows up, and I might as well see if I can put it to some use in the meantime. I gather it runs unix, so could I use it as an internet server for some rather high-demand applications? It seems a bit sad to accept the computer when I can't really use it, but I would much rather that than to see it scrapped. Adam.

28 years, 2 months

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Freebies spoken for...

by kyrrin2＠wizards.net

Yes, that's right. Not more than four hours after I posted the availability of a slew of RL02 packs, a mini-rack, etc., in pops a message >from CLASSICCMP's own Kevin McQuiggin (Thanks, Kevin!). He'll be coming down from Vancouver to get the stuff in the next week or so. All I can say is... geez, that was fast! ;-) Caveat emptor. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2(a)wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 2 months

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Atari 8-bit Find

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

Yesterday after several long weeks of lackluster thrifing I came across a 'complete' Atari XE game system. (though I have been avoiding that Atari ST at the other thrift store for weeks as I just don't have the room for it and whatever else it may need.) Of course, as many thrift stores do, they broke up the system down into several 'parts' and I dutifully browsed through the store and re-collected it. (for those unfamiliar with thrift store procedure, they bag the computer as one item, the disks as another, the drive as yet another, the power supply seperate, cables separate also, etc.) Remember if you find a hint of something you are collecting at a thrift, look around for other components (i.e. if you find a Commodore IEEE-488 cable start looking for PET/B-128 drives, printers, computers, tapes, disks, manuals, etc.) Among the items I got: XE game unit (equiv to Atari 65XE) with keyboard & Power Pack SIO & TV cables 1030 Modem 1050 Drive & Power Supply Atari Light Gun Several Cartridge games (including Bug Hunt which uses the gun) 2 packages of assorted hand-labeled disks for the Atari Several packages of orignal games, (mostiy SSI combat simulations, but all with complete instructions and very good condition boxes) I passed on the Atari Sticks as I have better than the 'Atari standard joystick' to use with it. Everything seems to be working great (except for loose video and audio jacks, but that is easily fixed) Now I am finally able to really play with the Atari disk drive more as I found a wealth of disk-based software to experiment with (BASIC programs and ROM dumps). The only thing I didn't get was a power supply for the modem, if I can't find one around the house I know just where to get one for a couple bucks. Then I can start transferring some of the Atari stuff from the internet to Atari disk. People keep saying how great the Atari 8-bit was/is, but when it comes to interfacing on a base system it is pretty limited... You can't do much communication without an 850 or a modem (I know some of you are going to talk about APE or some other PC to atari converter, but I don't have a PC...) The Commodore 8-bits are WAY easier to interface/communicate to anything. Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our Commodore 64 BBS (Silicon Realms 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

28 years, 2 months

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IBM PC-Junior

by jolminkh＠c2.telstra-mm.net.au

>The monitor is a standard CGA monitor with an adapter cable. I can >provide wirelists if anyone needs them. The printer port sidecar has a I thought it had a special monitor, mainly because video display modes 8, 9 and 10 were exclusive to it.

28 years, 2 months

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LCD life

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 01:15 AM 2/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone know how well LCDs hold up against time (provided, of course, >that they are not cracked!)? I had a Zenith Supersport XT laptop with CGA LCD in here a while back. Display looked fine to me. I've never heard of LCDs going bad like a monitor does. My LCD watch has been going strong for about the last 7 years, but I realize the design is alot simpler. -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 2 months

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FS Early computer (fwd)

by william＠ans.net

Any interest? If so, deal with Rag directly... William Donzelli william(a)ans.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:18:38 +0100 From: Ragnar Otterstad <otterstad(a)inet.uni2.dk> To: William Donzelli <william(a)ans.net> Subject: Re: FS Early computer ---------- > nixi-tubes so I guess it qualifies for this reflector. > > > > > > Somebody collecting early computers ? I have a late 1970s desktop > > computer > > > made in Silicon Valley > > > with nixi display, a unique tape drive build in. > > Who made it, and what model is it? California technology International, Santa Clara, CA Model 1032A I could probably point you towards > someone that might want it (I belong to the ClassiComp list as well as > BA). > > William Donzelli > william(a)ans.net >

28 years, 2 months

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Another successful "shopping" stip to Temple Univ.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<From: "Richard A. Cini" <rcini(a)email.msn.com> < 1. Misc. boards: LA100 and LA180 logic boards, MDB DB-11, unknown < Printronix board (has IM6402 processor, PCB# 104801-002 R Printronix, that is a UART(RCA6402). Allison

28 years, 2 months

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Disk Exerciser

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<>When I heard the description, I assumed it was a standalone box you coul <>connect a floppy to, and test every function on the floppy, maybe use it <>a burn-in test or something like that. < < It could be used for that but I have always used them for testing and <aligning drives. It only directly tests the positioning system not the <read or write systems. However you can look at the data pattern with a <scope if you use a formatted disk. In fact, that's exactly what you do <when you align the heads. You use a specially formatted disk called an <alignment disk and you position the drive heads to a location between tw <special tracks of data and you mechanically adjust the head so that both <track siganls are equal. The Shugart unit and also one I made could proveide basic write data patterns for checking the write logic and also seeing if the basic read logic works and dince the pattern is a stable one the quality of the read data. The common checks was track 00/01 repeating for track 0 detector. Also displaying the state of the write protect led, index led and allowed testing of the motor on, drive select and drive select led. The media(diskette) usually used with it allowed checking index position, read amp balance and gain, thresholds, and track alignment. Allison

28 years, 2 months

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publishing notes/hints

by mallison＠konnections.com

Just a thought To Whom It Concerns: Since I'm a publisher with a pretty good set up here for both paper and electronic publishing. I'd like to offer anyone who desires such services as creation of PDF files, typesetting, editing or organizing any documents to contact me. I can usually do most straight forward things like create PDF from ascii text in a couple of minutes. Editing, formatting, whathave you, takes more time. I'm not interested in charging for this, unless you are trying to make some money on a project and need an editor/publisher. Regardless, I don't mind helping out. If you need a hand with anything, please contact me through the list or personally at: mallison(a)konnections.com We've started a web page for documents that's still in its infancy at: http://www.konnections.com/bebooks/catalog.htm Our goal is to put every living available document there... might be ambitious. I'll be happy to post documents there as a service if you need a place. Thanks, -Mike Allison

28 years, 2 months

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Disk Exerciser

by higginbo＠netpath.net

At 10:09 PM 2/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >I've never HEARD of a disk exerciser. > >What on earth is one for? Pushups? Situps? When I heard the description, I assumed it was a standalone box you could connect a floppy to, and test every function on the floppy, maybe use it as a burn-in test or something like that. -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 2 months

2
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IBM PC-Junior

by jolminkh＠c2.telstra-mm.net.au

> >Are modes 8,9,10 things like 320*200 in 16 colours? > >Remember the CGA monitor can display 16 colours (there are 4 TTL-level >digital input lines). The original CGA card didn't have enough memory (or >the right logic) to do anything more than 2 colours at 320*200, although >the monitor would have been capable of it. The PC-jr did have enough >memory for this. An old reference I have says: mode 8 is 160X200 16 colors mode 9 is 320X200 16 colors mode 10 is 640X200 4 colors My PC JX monitor has a 16 pin connector, same shape as a games port. Hans

28 years, 2 months

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IBM PC type 5150

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-02-14 21:03:44 EST, you write: << For an external drive. The one I have in the garage is IBM# 4869 (360KB). I've seen a 720KB 3.5" version but don't know its' #. >> the 4869 is the big external ps2 floppy drive, usually with a 360k drive hiding inside. am i correct any floppy controller with the external connector can run this drive? david

28 years, 2 months

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Memotech MTX500

by adam＠merlin.net.au

>> Another lucky find - a Memotech MTX500 for $2. :) Beautiful computer - >> aluminium case, nice looking external power supply, and black. > >Wouldn't that be MTX512? No. It seems that the 512 was the 64k version of the 500 - the 500 was 32k and thus slightly cheaper. Adam.

28 years, 2 months

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FREE Disk Drive!

by kyrrin2＠wizards.net

OK, here we go. LOCAL PICKUP ONLY in Kent, WA (near Seattle). There's no flaming way I'm shipping this thing unless someone wants to pay the freight up front. ;-) What I've got is a Century Data M315-1 SMD disk drive. 14" platters, God only knows what capacity it is. It seems to power up and spin up OK, is noisy as blazes, has a HUGE linear voice-coil head positioner, and that's about all I know (or want to know) about it. I'll happily hand this beast, along with its rack mounting rails, over to the first happy vic... uhh, 'volunteer' to speak up and say they'll come get it. Any takers? If not, and I can't get any from comp.sys.dec, I'll have no choice but to tear out the useful parts and scrap the rest. Drop me a note, please. I hate to scrap anything, but I need the room! I'd far rather give the beast to someone who can use it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2(a)wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 2 months

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Apple II Hardware, Printers, etc.

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hi. I wanted to know what printers are avaible for an Apple ][+, with 64K RAM, as well as any other disk drives other than the Disk II. Also, where can I get one of these (either of the above items)? Thanks again, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 2 months

2
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BBC Model B - video help

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

I have just retreived a BBC computer. Seems to work fine, and I have managed to get directories of several of the (rather warped) 5.25 disks. I'm extremely surprised any data is readable at all - nice looking tandem dual floppy. However, onscreen I see there's a problem with the machine. I see perhaps 1/5th of the screen and then it repeats. Furthermore, the width of the screen isn't correct... that is, I see 20 or so character wide lines displaying and thus staircaising. I suspect its a hardware problem (almost 100% certain here, I've tried software mode changes - same in every mode), but have nil hardware expertise. So, when (occasionally) i see a > prompt, and type, i see what I type perhaps 20 times in varying places on the screen, each line offset from the other. Can anyone suggest my first steps to playing with it - what sort of chips should I be looking for, perhaps? I know, I'm behind the 8-ball, but you're all such brilliant guys at restoration, right? Any help much appreciated. Cheers Andrew >From "cad at " at gamewood.net Fri Feb 13 23:22:44 1998 From: "cad at " at gamewood.net (Charles A. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: BBC Model B - video help References: <01bd3905$ff8703a0$3ef438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <199802140528.AAA03565(a)fox.gamewood.net> Andrew Davie wrote: > > I have just retreived a BBC computer. > Seems to work fine, and I have managed to get directories of several of the > (rather warped) 5.25 disks. I'm extremely surprised any data is readable at > all - nice looking tandem dual floppy. > However, onscreen I see there's a problem with the machine. > I see perhaps 1/5th of the screen and then it repeats. Furthermore, the > width of the screen isn't correct... that is, I see 20 or so character wide > lines displaying and thus staircaising. I suspect its a hardware problem > (almost 100% certain here, I've tried software mode changes - same in every > mode), but have nil hardware expertise. > So, when (occasionally) i see a > prompt, and type, i see what I type > perhaps 20 times in varying places on the screen, each line offset from the > other. > Can anyone suggest my first steps to playing with it - what sort of chips > should I be looking for, perhaps? > I know, I'm behind the 8-ball, but you're all such brilliant guys at > restoration, right? > Any help much appreciated. > Cheers > Andrew Hi Andrew: Here is what I would look for and try to adjust --- Horizontal frequency. This sounds like it is some multiple of the desired (for the monitor) rate. That's what's getting the multiple images across the width of the screen. Also (maybe first, but definitely in conjunction with the above) look for 'Vertical' frequency/lock. This one is what is getting you multiple images in the vertical direction. Memory says that the adjustment is "roll down (image) and just return the adjustment the other direction till it locks in place." The 'horizontal lock' is a much courser adjustment. (This is all standard TV/Monitor adjustment stuff. If anyone has any specific advice different from this, by all means, give it a try.) Chuck -- ----------------------------------------------------------- He, who will not reason, is a bigot; William Drumond, he, who cannot, is a fool; Scottish writer and he, who dares not, is a slave. (1585-1649) While he that does, is a free man! Joseph P. 1955- ----------------------------------------------------------- (be sure to correct the return address when using 'reply') Chuck Davis / Sutherlin Industries FAX # (804) 799-0940 1973 Reeves Mill Road E-Mail -- cad(a)gamewood.net Sutherlin, Virginia 24594 Voice # (804) 799-5803

28 years, 2 months

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PDP-11/44 Boards

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

Something tells me this machine isn't going to be running anytime soon. Here is what I found when I got into the CPU. M7090 KD11-Z 11/44 console interface module M7093 FP11-F 11/44 floating point module M7094 KD11-Z 11/44 data path module M7095 KD11-Z 11/44 control module M7096 KD11-Z 11/44 multifunction module M7097 KK11-B 11/44 4-Kword cache module M7098 KD11-Z 11/44 UNIBUS interface M7762 RL11 RL01/02 disk drive controller M9902 M7762 RL11 RL01/02 disk drive controller M8256 RX211 RX02 floppy disk drive control module M7819 DZ11-A 8-line double-buffered async EIA with modem control (50 to 96-Kbaud, 64-byte silo) M7819 DZ11-A 8-line double-buffered async EIA with modem control (50 to 96-Kbaud, 64-byte silo) M7800 DL11 Async transmitter & receiver, 110-2400 baud Based on the info on the cover, the system is missing the following. M7091 KE44-A 11/44 CIS control store module M7092 KE44-A 11/44 CIS data path/logic module M8743 MS11-PB 1-Mbyte ECC RAM M7521 DELUA-AA UNIBUS to ethernet adaptor SPC BC11-25 TO TM11 I've no idea what the last three are, I suspect the 'TO TM11' is actually the huge ribbon cable that is plugged into the backplane. I'm assuming that without the M7091 and M7092 that there is no use in coming up with a RAM board. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 2 months

4
5
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Vacuum cleaners

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Today I found in a magazine called T3 (essentially a high-tech catalog) a robotic vacuum cleaner just as we discussed recently. It uses radar, and works kind of like that robotic lawnmower released several year ago. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

1
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Apple //gs boot problem

by rcini＠email.msn.com

I finally got a working SCSI card for my Apple //gs, but I now have a problem booting off of the hard drive. Here's the setup. CMS SCSI card to Miniscribe 20mb hard drive (old Mac SE drive). GS/OS 6.0.1 diskettes used to setup the hard drive. All files copied to hard drive with no errors; files are visible and runable from GS/OS. Turning off the machine and turning it back on produces a "Check startup device" error. Booting with the "no harddrive" GS/OS diskette works fine. All required files are on the hard drive. It's almost like a boot block is not written to the drive. For installation instructions, I culled info from Nathan Mate's Apple // web site. Any clues?? I installed GS/OS multiple times with the same results. Thanks! Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================

28 years, 2 months

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Apple II Hardware, Printers, etc.

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

OK... what's a cheap (small) compatible dot matrix? Thanks again, Tim d. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Bill Girnius <thedm(a)sunflower.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, February 14, 1998 7:20 PM Subject: Re: Apple II Hardware, Printers, etc. You can use just about any dot matrix printer made as long as you have a parallel port interface, which are very common second hand. Grappler is the best IMHO. -----Original Message----- From: Hotze <photze(a)batelco.com.bh> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, February 14, 1998 10:07 AM Subject: Apple II Hardware, Printers, etc. Hi. I wanted to know what printers are avaible for an Apple ][+, with 64K RAM, as well as any other disk drives other than the Disk II. Also, where can I get one of these (either of the above items)? Thanks again, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 2 months

1
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Apple II Hardware, Printers, etc.

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-02-14 11:06:33 EST, you write: << Hi. I wanted to know what printers are avaible for an Apple ][+, with 64K RAM, as well as any other disk drives other than the Disk II. Also, where can I get one of these (either of the above items)? Thanks again, >> the best printer for apples would have been something like an epson fx80 or similar. most programs back then pretty much expected that model. i remember using print shop with an epson and it taking up to 30 minutes to print something and the teacher getting mad because it was so bad on the ribbon printing all that black! david

28 years, 2 months

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Apple II Hardware, Printers, etc.

by thedm＠sunflower.com

You can use just about any dot matrix printer made as long as you have a parallel port interface, which are very common second hand. Grappler is the best IMHO. -----Original Message----- From: Hotze <photze(a)batelco.com.bh> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, February 14, 1998 10:07 AM Subject: Apple II Hardware, Printers, etc. Hi. I wanted to know what printers are avaible for an Apple ][+, with 64K RAM, as well as any other disk drives other than the Disk II. Also, where can I get one of these (either of the above items)? Thanks again, Tim D. Hotze

28 years, 2 months

1
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Diablo 1340 terminal?

by rws＠ais.net

Hi all- Tonight I got a Diablo 1340 hardcopy terminal. It looks like a table with a Diablo 1550 typewriter on top of it, but the typewriter is part of the table. Inside the large black box under the table are power supplies, cardcages, fans, etc. It works, except for one thing: whether in local or remote, whenever the 1550 gets a carriage return, it rams the home hard stop and the ALARM and PRINTER CHECK lights go on. I press ALARM to reset it and it works fine until the next carriage return. I tried adjusting the home stop in and out (it's actually a stiff spring-loaded stop) with no luck. When the terminal is first powered on and it seeks home (slowly) it does fine, without hitting the stop. Any ideas? (BTW this thing is just jam-packed with 7400 series logic and a couple of chips I can't identify. It was built in 1974 and installed in May 1975- I even got the maintenance record with this thing. It's serial no. 769.) Richard Schauer rws(a)ais.net

28 years, 2 months

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Scanlon Assembly Book

by mallison＠konnections.com

I'm trying to find a copy of Leo Scanlon's original IBM PC assembly language book. Seems like it had a lion on the cover. I gave mine away in 1988 to help someone out (hope it helped) and I need a new copy. I've made do with others, but I really liked that one. Any takers??? Thanks alot.. Mike Allison

28 years, 2 months

1
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Disk Exerciser

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Hi, went to a hamfest and picked up a Wango Disc Exerciser. Can anyone tell me what drives it works works on? It's a blue box about 5 x 8" inches in size and 3/4" think and has a ribbon cable connector at one end. It has the following switches: Start, auto-man, seq-alt, inc-fix-dec, 200 -100 TPI, Top-Bot Head, Rem-Fix Disc, Restore. I have used disk exercisers before so I know what all the switches are for, I just need to know what drive(s) it' for. Joe

28 years, 2 months

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disk equals license

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:22 PM 2/12/98, you wrote: > He is. Having the original version was a condition to him being allowed >to buy the upgrade. I suspect that that varies from vendor to vendor. Furthermore, unless it is specifically stated on the info about getting the upgrade, I don't think it would hold true, legally. > That says it all. You must have the old version as a condition to have >the upgrade. Unless the license for the new version eliminates the license (or inherits, if you prefer) for the old version. Which would make the old system disks as invalid (unlicensed, whatever) as a backup of the old version. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

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Opening PDP-11/44 CPU

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

Well, I've got a long weekend, so I've decided to start in on my restoration project by determining exactly what I've got. I few minutes ago I figured out how to get into the RL02 drives, only to discover they are empty. Now I'm trying to figure out how on earth to open up the CPU to find out what cards are in it. Both James Willing and myself spent a little time trying to figure this out the day I bought it with no luck. Finally gave up and moved it with the CPU still in the rack. The CPU in question is sitting in the top of a DEC rack that I believe is about 4' high. There appear to be some sort of hydralic things on either side of the box. Anybody have any questions, ideas, or suggestions? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years, 2 months

3
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IBM PC-Junior

by jolminkh＠c2.telstra-mm.net.au

If you found this in Australia with a 240v power supply, this is a unique computer. I don't think the "PC Junior" was ever sold outside the US. Most of the design was however later used by IBM Japan, and sold in Australia as the PC JX. It is probably very similar but had a different monitor and a different looking case. PC JX's are fairly common here as they were used in schools etc, but on the other hand they may be disappearing. I think they are classic computers and collectible. -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Davie <adavie(a)mad.scientist.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, 13 February 1998 14:47 Subject: IBM PC-Junior >"some IBM PC Junior pieces (a monitor, printer, cpu, keyboard). last time i >plugged it in, it worked" > >I would appreciate some info; I don't knnow anything about this one. >Should I grab it, and if so, what is a fair price? Ie: is it scarce, do i >want it. > >Andrew >

28 years, 2 months

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Apple II info ?

by kroma＠worldnet.att.net

I also have an Apple II Duodisk, which unlike the II fdd s has a DB25 pin female connector. Were these for the GS or did Apple simply upgrade the disk connections with the + or A-3. would it work on a II with an adapter ? ----------- Actually the Duodisk never worked properly on the GS. They were designed for latter model //e's. Apple redesigned the Disk 2 controller card to use the new connector. -- Kirk

28 years, 2 months

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System/34 contd.

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Needless to say, I was extremely disappointed when I was told that the manuals and software for the System/34 were thrown away, along with 5 5250 video terminals. There are three left, and I picked up one of the two remaining manuals. If was somewhat amused by some parts of the manuals. for example, after instructions on mailing comments, "Comments become the property of IBM". A full page on safety, including CPR instructions. On line reads,"Wer safety glasses when performing any work that may be hazardous to your eyes. REMEMBER-THEY ARE YOUR EYES" another,"Knowing safety rules is not enough. An unsafe act will inevitbly lead to an accident. Use good judgement - eliminate unsafe acts." A warning"The display station has a weight of ~ 34kg (75lb). NEVER LIFT BY YOURSELF" With all this, I'm surprised they ever got sued... PS Does anyone have the jumper setting for a Tiara Lancard /E*AT? PPS I am reading "The Soul of a New Machine". Great book! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years, 2 months

3
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Real hackers

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:17 PM 2/11/98 -0500, you wrote: ><People try, but the age of hacking is gone. Right now, there is just ><nothing exciting in the computing industry. Wait till holographic > >You got to be kidding. Just look around the edges at things like >autonomus robots and navagation to suggest a few. Theres plenty to be And there is plenty of opportunity in terms of software -- new uses for the internet connectivity is a big one. CUSeeMe, for example and the internet phone stuff... These are things that make me envision some guy, surrounded by empty coke bottles, about 3 in the morning thinking, "Hey, if I can send data over voice lines, why can't I send voice over data lines?" and such. Also, how about purpose-built devices? Wanna buy a dedicated alphapaging station so you're grandmother (who keeps pointing her calculator at the Microwave and trying to change the channel) can just turn it on, type a message (See, grandma, it's just like a typewriter!) and hit a send button to send you an alphapage? Probably can't do it affordably. But take a Basic Stamp, add a keyboard and a little LCD screen, some code, and voila... Speaking whihc, has anyone else ever read Heinlein's book (whose name I've forgotten) about the inventor whose partners steal everything and freeze him for 20 years etc? One of the things he invents is an automated vacuum cleaner. When Heinlein wrote the book, I'm sure that would have been very expensive and very difficult to do. Now, however, it would seem like an acheivable goal, especially since Heinlein does a lot of the specs for you... So how come you can't buy one at Target? Anyone want to make millions? (That book, btw, is what made me want to be an EE (along with Steve Ciarcia calling it "programming in solder"). Perhaps someday I'll finally get to become one...) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

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disk equals license

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Whoops, I didn't read it all. Only the person that posseses the license is the person who owns it. It dosn't matter who original purchased it, if the license was purchased it is then transferred. But if you give the disks back, and keep the software, your the bad guy. [sorry, just woke up] -----Original Message----- From: Mike Allison <mallison(a)konnections.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, February 13, 1998 12:24 AM Subject: Re: disk equals license >Uncle Roger wrote: >> Here's a question... Let's say my friend, who has a legal copy of xyz >> software, buys the upgrade version of xyz 2.0. He installs it, it checks >> for the previous version, and all is right with the world. He then gives >> me his old xyz 1.0 disks. I install it, purchase the upgrade, etc. >> >> Who (if anyone) is wrong? >> >> Now, let's say, we've both upgraded, and I give him back his original >> disks. Am I now a pirate? Was I a pirate before? Or was he the pirate >> before? > >You're wrong (in this case) You stole the upgrade from the company >because you didn't have the right to the upgrade. Then you stole the >upgrade. You now have a free copy running on your machine. > >You didn't pay for the original disks (not a crime) but the SINGLE >entitlement to the upgrade was already used. You have no further right >to upgrade.... > >-Mike >

28 years, 2 months

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disk equals license

by thedm＠sunflower.com

I Must dissagree. The person who willfully sell's the product and surrenders the original's to you has transferred the license. It is the original purchaser who is wrong. He has obligated himself at that point to remove the software from his machine, or he shouldn't have sold the license in the firstplace. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Allison <mallison(a)konnections.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, February 13, 1998 12:24 AM Subject: Re: disk equals license >Uncle Roger wrote: >> Here's a question... Let's say my friend, who has a legal copy of xyz >> software, buys the upgrade version of xyz 2.0. He installs it, it checks >> for the previous version, and all is right with the world. He then gives >> me his old xyz 1.0 disks. I install it, purchase the upgrade, etc. >> >> Who (if anyone) is wrong? >> >> Now, let's say, we've both upgraded, and I give him back his original >> disks. Am I now a pirate? Was I a pirate before? Or was he the pirate >> before? > >You're wrong (in this case) You stole the upgrade from the company >because you didn't have the right to the upgrade. Then you stole the >upgrade. You now have a free copy running on your machine. > >You didn't pay for the original disks (not a crime) but the SINGLE >entitlement to the upgrade was already used. You have no further right >to upgrade.... > >-Mike >

28 years, 2 months

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Disk problems/questions.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<The reason for the quotes around "no problem" is that some people have <wrongly assumed you can format 360K disks in a 1.2 MB drive and just use <them in a 360K drive. This is only true if the disk being formated has n That is a big no-no. The 1.2m drives have a write head that is have the width and if not properly configured the wrong write current for 360k media(1.2m media is different magnetically). Also that narrower head produces a much lower read signal on a 360k drive with more errors. Scandisk works excellent for me here even on my Leading Edge XT. It's something your doing not scandisk. Allison

28 years, 2 months

5
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Real hackers

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:06 PM 2/12/98 -0600, you wrote: >Speaking whihc, has anyone else ever read Heinlein's book (whose name I've >forgotten) about the inventor whose partners steal everything and freeze Okay, a little webbery (www.amazon.com) and the title is, <tada> _The Door Into Summer_. (So named, because the protagonist's cat was always looking for a door that opened into summer during the winter, but of course, so are we all...) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

1
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Apricot F1 - help, please!

by jolminkh＠c2.telstra-mm.net.au

This web site is probably only relevant to the PC Apricots. There is info on older stuff like the F10 at: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/4462/apricot.html -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Davie <adavie(a)mad.scientist.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, 13 February 1998 17:42 Subject: Re: Apricot F1 - help, please! >A lot of scouting around (www.apricot.com.uk is no longer active) dug up the >following, which is particularly useful - in particular, anydisk.zip looks >teriffic!! > >http://www.apricot.co.uk/ftp/bbs/atsbbs/allfiles.htm > >Cheers >Andrew > >-----Original Message----- >>From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers ><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Date: Friday, February 13, 1998 1:50 PM >Subject: Re: Apricot F1 - help, please! > > >>> >>> Amazingly enough, there is a ton (relatively) of F1 stuff on Apricot's UK >>> web site file library... >> >>Do you happen to have the URL for that ? >> >>ADVthanksANCE >> >>> >>> Kai >> >>-tony >> >> >

28 years, 2 months

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Apricot F1 - help, please!

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

A lot of scouting around (www.apricot.com.uk is no longer active) dug up the following, which is particularly useful - in particular, anydisk.zip looks teriffic!! http://www.apricot.co.uk/ftp/bbs/atsbbs/allfiles.htm Cheers Andrew -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, February 13, 1998 1:50 PM Subject: Re: Apricot F1 - help, please! >> >> Amazingly enough, there is a ton (relatively) of F1 stuff on Apricot's UK >> web site file library... > >Do you happen to have the URL for that ? > >ADVthanksANCE > >> >> Kai > >-tony > >

28 years, 2 months

1
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disk equals license

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

>I'd say you have the right to purchase a "previous version 1st disk >required" upgrade of the product. You have the disks and the manuals, and >the imaginary license laying right next to it, that the previous owner of >the software threw away along with his right to upgrade. Here's a question... Let's say my friend, who has a legal copy of xyz software, buys the upgrade version of xyz 2.0. He installs it, it checks for the previous version, and all is right with the world. He then gives me his old xyz 1.0 disks. I install it, purchase the upgrade, etc. Who (if anyone) is wrong? Now, let's say, we've both upgraded, and I give him back his original disks. Am I now a pirate? Was I a pirate before? Or was he the pirate before? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years, 2 months

3
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Apple IIe Case

by francois.auradon＠worldnet.att.net

Hi, I got an apple IIe today and it came in a big padded case with a handle. It looks like an oversize suitcase and wheighs a ton. It has reinforced corners and edges. Inside are three compartments: the center one holds the Apple IIe and the sides hld the disk drive, floppies, docs and hard drive. Has anyone heard of the case or is it a custom one of a kind part? Any information would be appreciated. Fran?ois

28 years, 2 months

3
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digital group computers

by mtapley＠swri.edu

All, Figures I'd be out of town when this topic came up; I'd been waiting for a quiet moment to ask about them as well. I remember *lusting* for a digital group system just before dad bought a TRS-80 Model 1. (He was right, Tandy made systems for a lot longer than digital group did. :-() digital group chassis had a backplane bus which could accomodate processor cards carrying any of the 4 processor architectures mentioned by Sam (6502, 6800, 8080, and the super-powerful chip of the future Z-80). They offered a storage system using cassette tapes but recording to them digitally, not tone-encoded, which they called the phi-deck (I think). They sold a separate cabinet which would hold up to 4 of those, for a pretty large (for those days) total storage - over a megabyte, if I recall correctly. They sold a fair selection of software. I recall OASIS (sic?) as the name of one of the operating systems, and OPUS-1 and OPUS-2 as the names of two levels of a programming language (I think). I trashed my promotional literature describing all of this years and years ago, once we decided to go the TRS-80 route. Sigh. If anyone can amplify or correct any of this, or better yet has a working system, I'd love to hear more about it. Oh yes, there was a picture of one of the cabinets on the cover of Byte magazine just before they went out of business. Along with many other systems, suspended in space around a shattering crystal goblet with the Title "Breaking the Sound Barrier". The cover story was about computers with sound-generation capability. This would be maybe 1-2 years after the introduction of the Z-80, I'd guess, but don't remember better than that. More and better information, anyone? - Mark

28 years, 2 months

3
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disk equals license

by higginbo＠netpath.net

Technically, everyone is wrong. Now, if he gave you the disks/manuals/etc. and did the upgrade, he'd be wrong. If you didn't upgrade, you'd be in the clear. You were a pirate before, a pirate now, and will always be a pirate if you keep the upgrade installed and use it. I guess that leaves only one thing to say: Arrgh! Join the crew, matey! :P But if you got the disks from an entirely anonymous source, you wouldn't know the history behind the software, and you could use the software with a slightly less guilty conscience if you were so inclined. Everything is relative, no two cases are the same, and some leeway needs to be taken into consideration where software "piracy" is concerned. I think there's a pretty big grey area there, IMHO. At 09:06 PM 2/12/98 -0600, you wrote: >Here's a question... Let's say my friend, who has a legal copy of xyz >software, buys the upgrade version of xyz 2.0. He installs it, it checks >for the previous version, and all is right with the world. He then gives >me his old xyz 1.0 disks. I install it, purchase the upgrade, etc. > >Who (if anyone) is wrong? > >Now, let's say, we've both upgraded, and I give him back his original >disks. Am I now a pirate? Was I a pirate before? Or was he the pirate >before? -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net-

28 years, 2 months

1
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TK50 TAPES up for grabs in Portland, OR

by kyrrin2＠wizards.net

Please contact Mr. Grier directly if you're interested. Thanks! -=-=- <snip> -=-=- >Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:34:42 -0800 (PST) >From: "Aaron J. Grier" <agrier(a)poofy.goof.com> >To: port-vax(a)NetBSD.ORG, port-pmax(a)NetBSD.ORG >Subject: tk50s up for grabs in Portland, OR >Sender: port-vax-owner(a)NetBSD.ORG >Delivered-To: port-vax(a)NetBSD.ORG > > >in the basement of the Reed College library, there's a wall of tk50s which >are being tossed. (All have been run through a bulk-eraser...) > >If you can get 'um before the custodians come and trash them, they're >yours. (I've already got my fill.) Drop me an email, and I can meet you >to help carry them to your vehicle. > ><sigh> at least they'll be giving away the hardware to students... > >---- > Aaron J. Grier | "Not your ordinary poofy goof." | agrier(a)poofy.goof.com > agrier(a)reed.edu | agrier(a)metro.grumblesmurf.net | ...!reed!vla!agrier > DECBEE65 0DEE3A0C 1ED7F54D 9E023CC4 and 0x0663D1A9 at a server near you. > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2(a)wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 2 months

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IBM PC-Junior

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

"some IBM PC Junior pieces (a monitor, printer, cpu, keyboard). last time i plugged it in, it worked" I would appreciate some info; I don't knnow anything about this one. Should I grab it, and if so, what is a fair price? Ie: is it scarce, do i want it. Andrew

28 years, 2 months

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Antique Computers

by tpvesele＠qualitycomp.com

Hello, My company currently has several examples of antique computers, software, and various hardware pieces from the early eighties on. We tend to hold onto things in our warehouse and have accumulated boxes of stuff. Some items include: Apple Lisa (one 3.5 drive) unknown model Apple III (one of my personal favorites) Tons of Apple Hardware including II+, IIe, and GS carcases AE Hardware (remember the Ram Charger and Vulcan Hardrives?) Different Upright Macs including 128's, 512's, and the Plus We used to sell a bunch of this stuff in the late eighties, and most of these items were returned without packaging and such, so we could never get refunds for them. I would be interested in receiving an e-mail from someone to discuss the values of some of these items. Thanks -- Sincerely, Thomas Veselenak Product Development Manager Scantron Quality Computers Brighter Paths 20200 9 Mile Rd. St. Clair Shores MI, 48080 Phone: 800-777-3642 Ext. 712 Fax: 810-774-2698

28 years, 2 months

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Apple IIe Case

by francois.auradon＠worldnet.att.net

>These were commonly advertised in the back of _BYTE_ and other computer >magazines in the late 70's and early 80's. Is there any indication of >a manufacturer or brand name for the case? > >Tim. Not that I can see. The panneling is made of wood (I got i off my trunk and can take a closer look), it looks like a home job (a well done one). Fran?ois.

28 years, 2 months

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Apricot F1 - help, please!

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Amazingly enough, there is a ton (relatively) of F1 stuff on Apricot's UK web site file library... Kai > -----Original Message----- > From: Tony Duell [SMTP:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 1998 10:27 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Apricot F1 - help, please! > > > > > Having just obtained a 1984 Apricot F1 computer (and a lovely looking > > machine they are!) I find I can only get to the ROM boot stage. > Onscreen, I > > have Aprictot F1, a floppy icon, a chip icon, a hand pointing down, an > arrow > > I have an Apricot F1 Technical Manual here, mainly because it's the only > thing that I've found that's at all relevant to the Apricot PC which I > have. > > > pointing up, and thats about it. The arrow and hand are flashing. > > When I place disks in the drive, it spins for a bit and places an X and > a > > number on the screen. Numbers I've seen are 4, 8 and 99. So... any > proud > > OK, here's the error table from Appendix A of the manual : > > Boot ROM Error codes : > 20 ROM checksum test > 22 SIO register test > 25 RAM test > 28 Floppy Controller test > 29 CTC clock chip test > 33 Clock interrupt test > 35 Drive 0 test (can it step correctly?) > > Disk Error codes : > 2 Drive not ready, or disk removed during boot > 4 CRC error, corrupt sector > 6 Seek Error, unformatted or corrupt disk > 7 Bad media, corrupt media block > 8 Sector not found, unformatted or corrupt disk, bad load address in label > 11 bad read, corrupt data field on disk > 12 disk failure, disk hardware or media fault > 99 Non-system disk. Not a valid boot disk > > I assume you are using an Apricot boot disk. This machine, while based on > the 8086 and running MS-DOS, is certainly not a PC-clone. According to > the manual, this machine uses double-sided 80 track 720K disks (my, > older, machine uses single-sided disks). > > I don't know if boot disks for other Apricot machines will work. The > hardware is somewhat different (the F1 doesn't have the 8089 'I/O > coprocessor' (a fancy DMA chip) that's fitted on the PC). > > If you are using an Apricot boot disk, I'd firstly try a different one, > and then suspect disk drive or disk controller problems. The Apricot uses > a Western Digital 2797 disk controller. There's a few tweakers associated > with this chip as well. > > > Any help appreciated. > > Cheers > > Andrew > > > > > > -tony

28 years, 2 months

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Altair 8800b + drive alignment

by wts＠exo.com

I also need alignment for a drive on my 8800b. I have the documentation and procedures plus the MITS program to step to a specific track. In addition to an oscilloscope, one tool needed for alignment is a hammer! The biggest problem will be finding an alignment diskette. The Pertec drives are 32-hard-sectored eight-inch. Most eight-inch drives are soft-sectored. Assuming your drives are one drive per case, they are probably a FD410 with a DC motor. If your drives are two drives per case, they are probably FD511s with a AC motor. Both drives can read the same diskettes. I also have a supply of blank diskettes. I would appreciate any suggestions on locating an alignment diskette. I would also like to hear from anyone with working drives. I would like backup and add to my MITS software collection. Tom Sanderson wts(a)exo.com http://exo.com/~wts/wts10005.HTM Virtual Altair Museum To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Subject: Altair 8800b + drive alignment From: "Andrew Davie" <adavie(a)mad.scientist.com Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 00:13:10 +1100 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu I recently purchased an Altair 8800b from the original owner. He told me that last he used it (1984?), he was having trouble reading from the disk drive, and he was sure that it needed alignment. Apparently an alignment disk is required. I suspect an oscilloscope as well. I have two questions; 1) Can someone explain the process of aligning a disk drive, what is out of whack, and how tricky it is for a rank electronics amateur like myself 2) Where can I obtain an alignment disk, if required. Oh, I forgot to mention, the drive is an 8", the Altair model that has the same basic case and look of the Altair itself. This repair is one of the (I suspect) many that will be required to bring the Altair back to life. I've managed to get it (almost) firing up during the self-test stage, but one of the address lines doesn't behave (the light doesn't come on on A2 when I flick the switch that should light all of them, yet the light is operational at other stages). I'll get to that one later. Looks like a long, slow process. But worth it, no? Cheers Andrew

28 years, 2 months

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disk equals license

by manney＠nwohio.com

> AutoDesk requires you to trade the original disks from the previous > version at the dealer to order the upgrade. Not any more . I have a customer who has her old disks. >

28 years, 2 months

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Possible source for parts

by kyrrin2＠wizards.net

I used to feel very antagonistic towards recyclers, since I saw them as greedy sharks that would cheerfully smash any type of electronic equipment or component, no matter how potentially useful, just for a few cents worth of gold. While I don't doubt that there are some who are like that, it strikes me that they're likely only out there to make a living like the rest of us. With that in mind, I think establishing positive relationships are much more constructive. I've attached a post from a recycler. He may or may not be willing to sell useful and undamaged parts as well. Those who are interested, please contact him directly. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:53:48 -0500, in misc.industry.electronics.marketplace you wrote: >>Path: Supernews70!Supernews73!supernews.com!howland.erols.net!news-feed1.tiac.net!posterchild2!news(a)tiac.net >>From: "Jim Sciuto" <goldtek(a)juno.com> >>Newsgroups: alt.electronics,alt.electronics.manufacture.circuitboard,aus.electronics,comp.sci.electronics,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,japan.handmade.electronics,misc.industry.electronics.marketplace >>Subject: Millions in Gold From Old Computer Equipment >>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:53:48 -0500 >>Organization: Goldtek >>Lines: 57 >>Message-ID: <6bt5cb$3ht(a)news-central.tiac.net> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: p16.ts3.danve.ma.tiac.com >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: multipart/alternative; >> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BD366E.5E1CF360" >>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 >>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 >>Xref: Supernews70 alt.electronics.manufacture.circuitboard:2371 aus.electronics:9618 comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips:202541 japan.handmade.electronics:133 misc.industry.electronics.marketplace:11083 >> >>This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >> >>------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BD366E.5E1CF360 >>Content-Type: text/plain; >> charset="iso-8859-1" >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> >> >> >>Learn to recycle gold. Old circuit boards, IC Chips, jewelry, etc.. can = >>be recycled and sold again. I will buy them. If you would like more = >>information visit my web site.=20 >> >>http://www.tiac.net/users/quiksand/goldtek.htm >> >>Thanks, >> >>Jim=20 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin2 {at} wiz<ards> d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

28 years, 2 months

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