- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by kevan＠heydon.org

Hi, I have a HP 9000/217 that I want to pass onto another collector. As with the Rainbow previously, it would be best if you could collect from Cambridge UK, but I could be persuaded to deliver as long as it's not too far away. To see a picture of the machine in question go to: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/manufacturer-hp/9000_217.html Drop me an email if you are interested. -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/

28 years

1
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Processing data in blocks

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Back when I asked about the HP 3000, someone mentioned that it processed data in blocks. What exactly does that mean? How does it work? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

2
1
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FW: Fellow's looking for old DEC HW...

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Found on Usenet. If you can help, please contact the author directly. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- From: Kerry Davis <kdavis(a)flatland.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec Subject: Any PDP-12/15/whatever to be had? Date: 27 May 1998 03:43:00 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Lines: 9 Message-ID: <6kgqnk$cdr(a)nntp02.primenet.com> X-Posted-By: kdavis(a)207.218.4.36 (yab) Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!calwebnntp!www.nntp.primenet.com!globalcenter1!news.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!not-for-mail I had some neat old gear once, that I enjoyed playing with. Including a couple PDP-12s, 15s, 8s, a Linc-8... quite a variety actually. Anyone know of any place with some stuff like that available, for sale? I'd like to have some of that again, both for my own enjoyment and to be able to show some people how things used to be. Kerry Davis Phoenix, Arizona kdavis(a)bbs.yab.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin {at} j<p>s d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

28 years

1
0
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Linux login (OT)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I know there are some linux users, so if you know the answer, please respond privately. How do I make it so that someone can login remotely over a terminal? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

1
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11/34a Thanx..

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Well, muchas gracias to Mr. Duell; I have one of my 11s out of deep sleep and talking to it's console. For any who have followed this sequence.. the problems resolved to a) bad BA11 (PSUs good, something else is wrong) b) the old grant continuity confusion, and finally c) a bad RS232 cable I put in the line to the console VT100 to extend it a bit. So now, I have one 11/34 computer running, with an RX02 (but no bootable media for it) and two RK05s, neither of which work at the moment.... but that's the next hurdle. Actually, I have configured a single RK as unit 0 and terminated it. The *problem* is something in the control logic preventing the unit from spinning up the disc and coming into ready. So I'm kneeling on the floor under the drive with a voltmeter and a scope, trying to find where the chain is broken. At least I have extender cards.... Again, many many thanks to all of you who have taken the time to offer advice... it was correct and successful. More later as the situation progresses.. Cheers John

28 years

7
8
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11/34a help #3

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Thanks first to all who have offered help and advice. (Re: sacrifices... roosters have psitticosis and mites, and as for virgins... c'mon guys, I'm in *California*.... <g>) The computer works; the disk drives don't. Armed with the printsets for the drive and the controller, and assisted by the Group, I am reasonably certain that thr RK05 itself is in good shape. I have simulated all it's 'ready' conditions and it's fine. I have changed (twice... aarrghhh) the interface cable... all same. The RK05 thinks that DCLO is asserted. "Forcing' DCLO at the drive makes it work. I have measured DCLO and ACLO at the RK11D backplane.. they are at +5V. In the drive, +30VAC is good into the control card. On the RK11D, I have traced DCLO to the wirewrap pins, and it appears good. I have yet to figure out the path DCLO takes thru the RK11 stack. This problem has been most baffling so far because DCLO originates in the RK05 and in the RK11 and in the BA-11.. so it's a multiple-varible with a commaon symptom. I seem to be converging on it, but if anything jumps out at someone with some actual field experience with these devices... it might save me a few more hours of discovering all the various places where the problem "isn't". ;} To Tony Duell: thanks for the e-mail.. I did indeed verify the itms you mentioned... the 'interlock' circuits are working, microswitches good, etc. ALSO: I would love to have a pointer to the D11W SLU/LTC card switch settings... at least the baud rate stuff... I want to use my LA120 as a console rather than the VT100... getting Unix going is next after the drives a working, and I want hard copy for that. I have looked and not found this particular info on the Net so far. Cheers to all John

28 years

3
2
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Apple IIgs in Apple II case?

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>I dunno about this... but I seem to remember a mention of a sticker... >either green or orange. That, and look on the boards/chips and see what you >can find... if you have a IIe, look for things that that shold have... lets >see... check for stuff like 'prototype' or something. Or, if anyone knows >it, the IIGS's code name... The Apple IIgs was code named "Cortland", "Phoenix", "Rambo", and "Gumby". Tom Owad

28 years

1
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More stuff acquired

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote: > An HP Integral PC. I didn't much pay attention to the one Frank M. > brought to VCF 1.0 so it was all new to me when I actually started messing > with this one. I couldn't get it to do anything useful though. How do I > drop out of PAM and into a shell? This one has a 1Meg RAM Carrier and a > Serial Interface. Well, it also helps to have a shell. That's why I also brought that 9134 disc drive -- it has the development set loaded on it, which makes it behave a bit more like a Un*x box. Failing that, PAM has a little bit of shell functionality in it. You can use it to look at text files, also you can get a list of files in your current directory by typing "echo *" in its command-line area. (No, PAM doesn't show you everything.) ... Tony mentioned HP-IL and that made me think of what I've been plodding through today: a box full of HP-41 and HP-IL documentation. Shame I didn't grab any of the hardware (other folks did, and left the manuals -- so far as hardware I was concentrating on 9114s that I knew I could use with my Portable Plus and some other little bits), but maybe next time I cross the path of some I'll have a better idea of what to look for. So what have I got? Well, thus far: The HP-IL Interface Specification p/n 82166-90017, Nov 1982 HP 00041-15043 HP-IL Development Module Owner's Manual p/n 00041-90449 Rev B, Oct 1984 1LB3-0003 The HP-IL Integrated Circuit User's Manual p/n 82166-90016 Rev B, Nov 1983 HP 82166C The HP-IL Interface Kit Technical Guide p/n 82166-90020 Rev B, May 1983 HP 82166A HP-IL Converter Technical Manual p/n 82166-90002, Nov 1982 HP 82165A HP-IL/GPIO Interface HP 81266A HP-IL Converter Manual Supplement p/n 82165-90012, Oct 1982 OK, that is what I found in the first binder. Somehow I have a feeling I'm gonna wish I had Tony's clues by the time I get done with this. -Frank McConnell

28 years

3
3
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Apple modification

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

it's my understanding that the //c's ps will work with the laser. i think the connection is the same, and the voltages are slightly different, but close enough to get it to work. In a message dated 98-05-27 15:04:32 EDT, you write: << I think it's an ex, not sure. Can I make a PSU? Is the one for the C64 or //c compatible? > >if it's a regular laser128, i wouldnt bother much. however, if its a 128ex, or >ex2, get it quick! those had extra options including built in memory >expansion. ive seen a few lasers for sale, always without the power brick it >seems. i have two complete systems myself. > >david >

28 years

1
0
0 0

Apple modification

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I think it's an ex, not sure. Can I make a PSU? Is the one for the C64 or //c compatible? > >if it's a regular laser128, i wouldnt bother much. however, if its a 128ex, or >ex2, get it quick! those had extra options including built in memory >expansion. ive seen a few lasers for sale, always without the power brick it >seems. i have two complete systems myself. > >david > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

1
0
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Apple IIgs in Apple II case?

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

I dunno about this... but I seem to remember a mention of a sticker... either green or orange. That, and look on the boards/chips and see what you can find... if you have a IIe, look for things that that shold have... lets see... check for stuff like 'prototype' or something. Or, if anyone knows it, the IIGS's code name... Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 27, 1998 7:58 PM Subject: RE: Apple IIgs in Apple II case? >How would you tell a prototype from the conversion? > >thanks > >Kai > >-----Original Message----- >From: KFergason [mailto:KFergason@aol.com] >Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 1998 8:19 PM >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >Subject: Re: Apple IIgs in Apple II case? > > > >I can verify this. We got 2 beta units to develop on, in the IIe case. >I always wondered what happened to them. > >Kelly > >In a message dated 5/26/98 10:01:56 PM Central Daylight Time, >photze(a)batelco.com.bh writes: > >> I seem to remember hearing (although I couldn't tell you where if my life >> depended on it...) that Apple made it's earlier IIGS prototypes inside of >> IIe cases. >> Ciao, >> >> Tim D. Hotze >>

28 years

1
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0 0

A 10 yr old Burroughs

by manney＠lrbcg.com

The following equipment is available, thanks to the Y2K harvest. I have no idea what else comes with this (software, I presume) -- B28-CPU 80286 processor B25-CPU 80186 processor module B27-CLS Cluster Workstation CPU (2 available) B27-CPU Master Workstation CPU B25-M4-90 90 MB Winc with 5 1/4" B25-MC6-85 85 MB ECC Winc w/o fl. B25-MX5-85 85MB Exp. W/o Floppy B25-TS .25" Tape Streamer AP1351-1 100-400 CPS, 132 col. printer (2 avail) B25-PC PC Emulator control slice B25-M4-50 40/50 MB disc, 5 1/4" fl MF-422 422 MB 380 0-180 cps 80 col. printer 391+ 90-270 cps 123 col. printer Anyone interested? manney(a)lrbcg.com

28 years

1
0
0 0

Old tape

by william＠ans.net

(mostly for Mr. Shoppa, but others may have insight) The old RCA tape I had mentioned is in fact larger that 1/2". It looks a bit like 3/4". It is not video tape, as the reel says "RCA Electronic Data Processing 501". A small paper label also has "BPROG", and a date from 1964. God only knows what is on this tape, and if it could still be read! William Donzelli william(a)ans.net

28 years

3
3
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Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 06:44 PM 5/26/98 +1000, you wrote: >I have one question , well I actually have two...... >though, what software came on cassetes? >and what is the most common fault in the IBM full height floppy drives that >makes them die??? I dunno about IBM PC cassette-based software, but lots of other systems used them... (I remember Atari's Infamous christmas cassettes, including "The Spy who came in from the Code"... Iirc, the IBM FH floppies were belt driven... The belts slipped a lot. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years

1
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0 0

Apple IIgs in Apple II case?

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, 27 May 1998 5:29 Subject: Apple IIgs in Apple II case? >I just acquired an Apple IIgs that is in an Apple IIe style case! > >It's not a conversion or anything, it's original from Apple. It looks >exactly like a IIe except for the model emblem and the back panel. > >Perhaps it's something Apple did for the educational market, to make it look >like the other machines they were used to, and incorporating a built-in >keyboard which would be less fragile than the multi-piece regular IIgs >series. > >Anybody ever heard of these? > >Kai > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm yes this was a official upgrade from Apple, Ive done one of these in the past............ you could upgrade any of the older IIs to the gs.

28 years

1
0
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Apple IIgs in Apple II case?

by KFergason＠aol.com

I can verify this. We got 2 beta units to develop on, in the IIe case. I always wondered what happened to them. Kelly In a message dated 5/26/98 10:01:56 PM Central Daylight Time, photze(a)batelco.com.bh writes: > I seem to remember hearing (although I couldn't tell you where if my life > depended on it...) that Apple made it's earlier IIGS prototypes inside of > IIe cases. > Ciao, > > Tim D. Hotze >

28 years

1
0
0 0

Apple modification

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-05-26 23:11:39 EDT, you write: << > Laser 128? It's being offered for $25 at a thrift shop w/o PSU. Lastly, >> if it's a regular laser128, i wouldnt bother much. however, if its a 128ex, or ex2, get it quick! those had extra options including built in memory expansion. ive seen a few lasers for sale, always without the power brick it seems. i have two complete systems myself. david

28 years

1
0
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Apple modification

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I have a little dilemma here. For one thing, I have an Apple //c. I am being offered an Apple ][+ (I think) for free that has a Digital Research z-80 card in it,with manual, as well as an external keyboard kludge. There is also software. However, there is an issue with space. Is there any way to modify the Apple //c to make it take expansion cards? Should I just take the ][+? Also, how much should I pay for a Laser 128? It's being offered for $25 at a thrift shop w/o PSU. Lastly, does anyone have a Z-80 card for the //c? They were made by Applied Engineering and were inserted into the processor socket. I have them in an old AE catalog. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

2
1
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Apple IIgs in Apple II case?

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

I seem to remember hearing (although I couldn't tell you where if my life depended on it...) that Apple made it's earlier IIGS prototypes inside of IIe cases. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: D. Peschel <dpeschel(a)u.washington.edu> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, May 27, 1998 4:18 AM Subject: Re: Apple IIgs in Apple II case? >> It's not a conversion or anything, it's original from Apple. It looks >> exactly like a IIe except for the model emblem and the back panel. > >As someone already pointed out, you have an official Apple product, a //e- >to-//gs upgrade. When we got our family //e, I had fantasies about that >upgrade, but we never got it (and I guess VERY few other people did either). > >I seem to remember the list price as around $800. $864? Something like that. > >Do you have the normal //e-size monitor? That would be an advantage over the >stock //gs. Do you also have the same //e keyboard? Has it been converted to >use ADB? I always liked the feel of the //e's keyboard better than the //gs' >little keyboard. But if the upgrade's keyboard isn't modular like the regular >//gs, that would be a disadvantage in some ways. > >-- Derek

28 years

1
0
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Apple IIgs in Apple II case?

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Seems like a cool find. Historically, all such upgrades have been 90% of the purchase price for a new machine -- up to and including Apple's more recent PowerMac upgrade boards, so I'm not surprised that it's rare. If it's a mag like Byte or kilobaud, I'd love to know the issue #. Kai -----Original Message----- From: SUPRDAVE [mailto:SUPRDAVE@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 1998 7:02 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Apple IIgs in Apple II case? yes indeedy, apple provided an upgrade path for //e users. for $500 you got a new gs planar, and a sticker that replaced the lower case apple //e one with //gs. of course, one of the caveats is you didnt get ADB and seperate keyboard. i dont think many people upgraded due to the price. i have an old magazine that had a writeup about the upgrade. if anyone's that interested i can look up details or make copies. message me privately. david In a message dated 98-05-26 21:15:04 EDT, you write: << > It's not a conversion or anything, it's original from Apple. It looks > exactly like a IIe except for the model emblem and the back panel. As someone already pointed out, you have an official Apple product, a //e- to-//gs upgrade. When we got our family //e, I had fantasies about that upgrade, but we never got it (and I guess VERY few other people did either). I seem to remember the list price as around $800. $864? Something like that. >>

28 years

1
0
0 0

Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:46 PM 5/22/98 -0700, you wrote: >> Your hopes are dashed. The only pricey IBM PCs are the ones that had 16K >> installed at the factory and weren't upgraded. The 64K ones are relatively > >That's absurd (bordering on perverse) -- what could you DO with a machine >like that? (Yes, run BASIC and use cassettes... I know.) In my day, sonny, 16K was plenty of room. Back then, we knew how to program. It was an art. Not like the kids today, with their megabytes and Gooeys and write-once-read-many, magneto-optical, doohickies... (whups, gotta go, time for maaaatttlooock!) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years

5
5
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Apple IIgs in Apple II case?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

yes indeedy, apple provided an upgrade path for //e users. for $500 you got a new gs planar, and a sticker that replaced the lower case apple //e one with //gs. of course, one of the caveats is you didnt get ADB and seperate keyboard. i dont think many people upgraded due to the price. i have an old magazine that had a writeup about the upgrade. if anyone's that interested i can look up details or make copies. message me privately. david In a message dated 98-05-26 21:15:04 EDT, you write: << > It's not a conversion or anything, it's original from Apple. It looks > exactly like a IIe except for the model emblem and the back panel. As someone already pointed out, you have an official Apple product, a //e- to-//gs upgrade. When we got our family //e, I had fantasies about that upgrade, but we never got it (and I guess VERY few other people did either). I seem to remember the list price as around $800. $864? Something like that. >>

28 years

1
0
0 0

Best way to read N* disks??

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Allison/Marvin: Thanks. I was afraid that it was a problem that software couldn't manage around. Right now, my N* is non-working (actually, it hasn't worked since I got it), but I was trying to examine what was contained on the diskettes. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking Collector of classic computers <<<========== Reply Separator ==========>>>

28 years

1
0
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Apple IIgs in Apple II case?

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

I just acquired an Apple IIgs that is in an Apple IIe style case! It's not a conversion or anything, it's original from Apple. It looks exactly like a IIe except for the model emblem and the back panel. Perhaps it's something Apple did for the educational market, to make it look like the other machines they were used to, and incorporating a built-in keyboard which would be less fragile than the multi-piece regular IIgs series. Anybody ever heard of these? Kai

28 years

2
1
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FW: Fellow needs a VAXen in NYC -- anyone?

by kyrrin＠jps.net

Found on Usenet. Contact Mr. Tarka directly if you can help. Thanks. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- From: Mark Tarka <tarka(a)earth.oscs.montana.edu> Newsgroups: comp.os.vms Subject: WTB small VAX/VMS system, NYC area Message-ID: <009C6C1A.8500DE82.26(a)earth.oscs.montana.edu> Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:35:52 MDT Organization: Info-Vax<==>Comp.Os.Vms Gateway X-Gateway-Source-Info: Mailing List Lines: 14 Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news.burgoyne.com!news.eecs.umich.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!mvb.saic.com!info-vax I've got to be in NYC on personal business in early June. Anyone in NYC or within the commuting area have a _small_ vax/vaxstation/uvax to donate or sell? I'm interested mainly in a box, with any external storage devices (disk, tape), working or repairable, and documentation. The system has to be somewhat compliant with whatever passes for standard I/O to the external environment (a 3100 for example would be a bad idea :-) Mark -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin {at} j<p>s d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

28 years

1
0
0 0

Transformers

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

>> reservation is the fact that it doesn't have a ground plug. I'm sure I >> can just pass the ground connection on from the computer to my wall outlet >> since the ground lead is attached directly to the computer case, no? >> Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> said: >Exactly. And when you do that, also ground the frame/core of the >transformer, just in case the insulation ever breaks down. Isn't this step-up transformer also acting as an isolation transformer, isolating the secondary from ground? I thought that meant that you didn't not need a ground because secondary of the transformer has no relationship to ground. I'd like to find out because I use one with my Mitsubishi MoveMaster robot. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum =========================================

28 years

2
1
0 0

HP Portable Plus

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> writes: > Thanks, changing the jumper and hitting reset did the trick. I needed to > reformat the RAM disk after the reset, but I have a couple of "advanced > mail" apps in ROM that seem to expect files to be present on the RAM disk. > Is there some special way to setup the ROM apps, or do I manually create > directories and files as I get errors? That would be AdvanceMail. I vaguely remember that you do have to create something for it to make it not complain. Not that it's real useful -- I think you need to have something for it to connect to, and while I know there was some way to make it talk to HPDeskManager on the HP3000s I don't think it ever got updated to talk anything like POP3 or QWK packets or what have you. Nevertheless there seem to be a lot of Portable Pluses out there with the AdvanceMail software, and I can only guess that is because HP was using HPDeskManager for its internal e-mail network until two or three? years ago and found it useful to equip a lot of its internal-use Pluses with AdvanceMail. -Frank McConnell

28 years

1
0
0 0

HP Portable Plus

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> wrote: > OK, I'm staring at my recently acquired HP Portable Plus with it's oddball > power plug. The FAQ tells me it wants 6V, but the only thing I have that > fits is an 8V supply from a 9114, which I'm sure will do the trick, but I > don't see two things: a polarity key and a power switch. Does the Plus > care about polarity? If not, how do I turn it on? If you took a close look at your 9114 supply you might find that its output is 8V*AC*. No polarity to worry about. First, try to turn it on with the return key. Just press it once, wait, try again (sometimes mine don't notice on the first press). If all is well that will get you to a PAM screen, and from there you can turn it off again with f8. If you open the battery door (center rear) you will find a jumper and a tiny switch. The switch is full-reset-zap-everything. The jumper is what connects the battery to the rest of the system, and may be set incorrectly if the unit is never-used or someone clueful stored it with the knowledge that it wouldn't be used for a while. Of course I can't remember which way is "correct" and my Pluses are being difficult w/r/t door removal this morning. Ah, there we go. The jumper fits over a three-pin header, and the pin to the right (assuming you're facing the back, so the one on the Ctrl-key side of the Plus) should be exposed for normal operation (the other two should be connected with the jumper). Shift-Stop is the two-fingered "reboot" salute. It's safer than the switch in back. Note the "AAAAAA" or "BBBBBB" line that it spits out during this exercise, that tells you what version of the base ROMs are installed. ... Hans Olminkhof asks what the Portable Plus is. Yes, it's the successor to the 110 aka Portable. More RAM, bigger screen, faster modem (1200 vs. 300 bps), "drawers" for RAM and ROM so more customizability -- users could buy different sizes of RAM drawers and buy additional applications in ROMs to install in the ROM drawer, rather than having to load up precious RAM. Also I think there was no built-in Terminal application, instead HP sold a ROM'd version of WRQ's Reflection 1. -Frank McConnell

28 years

2
1
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Apple IIgs in Apple II case?

by engine＠chac.org

At 12:27 5/26/98 -0700, KaiKal wrote: >I just acquired an Apple IIgs that is in an Apple IIe style case! >It's not a conversion or anything, it's original from Apple. It looks >exactly like a IIe except for the model emblem and the back panel. What you have there, my friend, is the Apple IIGS UPGRADE, and a lucky man you are. It _is_ a conversion; some intrepid owner made it out of a //e and the Upgrade Kit, which was a new logic board and the case pieces. I've got one, but only one. If you fire it up, I'd be interested to know what revision your ROMs are. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years

1
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Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn(a)ricochet.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, 26 May 1998 3:16 Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old >At 01:46 PM 5/22/98 -0700, you wrote: >>> Your hopes are dashed. The only pricey IBM PCs are the ones that had 16K >>> installed at the factory and weren't upgraded. The 64K ones are relatively >> >>That's absurd (bordering on perverse) -- what could you DO with a machine >>like that? (Yes, run BASIC and use cassettes... I know.) > >In my day, sonny, 16K was plenty of room. Back then, we knew how to >program. It was an art. Not like the kids today, with their megabytes and >Gooeys and write-once-read-many, magneto-optical, doohickies... (whups, >gotta go, time for maaaatttlooock!) > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > >Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." >Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > I have one question , well I actually have two...... though, what software came on cassetes? and what is the most common fault in the IBM full height floppy drives that makes them die??? anyone??

28 years

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Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for oldcomputers...)

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>>>I hope that "16K" means "16/64K model" as opposed to "actually equipped >>>with >>>16K of memory." >> >>Your hopes are dashed. The only pricey IBM PCs are the ones that had 16K >>installed at the factory and weren't upgraded. So they only had 16K on board, and no empty sockets for expansion to 64K? Or do you mean that they just came with 16K but you could add the rest of the chips yourself? Interestingly enough I seem to remember that there was an unofficial mod that you could make easily to the 256K system boards to take them out to 512K... I don't know if that applied to all the XT 256K boards or not... cheers >Jules

28 years

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I need a VAX 785 bootdisk image... Anyone got one?

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I need a diskimage for a VAX 785. Doesn't matter (yet) what boots are on it. If you have one, let me know, but DON'T mail it to the toad.xkl.com address, I'll give you another to mail to. (MM doesn't like attachments, and I doubt my terminal like binary files) -------

28 years

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Nasty little Sanyo (was Re:Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old computers))

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I have some of those in an "Advanced Computer Products" catalog, 1985. $1299. Not much I can say about them. They look kinda like stereo systems and "Sanyo" means "crap" in russian. >Russ/Alice Blakeman wrote: >> >> So it's unanimous - all Sanyo MBC-55x machines, working or not, that >> are not a part of a Camry fender, are to be executed immediately to >> save our planet. > >Well, I have three and while they are not (IMHO) a significant part of >computer history, they do play a part in the scheme of things and thus >are worthwhile keeping. Hmmm, judging by all the comments on this list, >maybe they were a significant part of computer history :). > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

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Tandy web page malarkey

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Actually, remember that they DIDN'T MAKE $599 per unit, because the cost <production was probably at least $250-350. Then they didn't directly sel <them to end users, but to resellers, for about a $100 max profit... it ad The stores had a margin of something like 35% in '78, it got better with time. Production cost was horrendous at ther start as yeild was less that 30% working systems due to bad design and test procedures. The -69A boards were slightly better than junk. The 69D board and revized assembly and test were still under 80% yeild. But even at that the production cost was in the $100-160 range for the 4k/L1 basic. Design weak points in the TRS-80 were data bus noise, poor memory timing, power and ground noise, no lowercase (all it needed was one ram), common keys missing of the keyboard and the parts count was too high. I had a simplifed design at that time that ran TRS80 l1/l2 basic that was functionally identical and used far fewer packages with better timing. No doubt all of that was the side effect of not understanding the original design. It all showed up big time with the EI! Also total sales for the first year of production were in excess of 250,000! Other than apple it was the most common machine out there and between the two they out numberd likely all other computers in existence to that date. Allison

28 years

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Mountain Computers AD/DA Card

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Hi. I've got one of these in my Apple ][. Anyone got any info??? Ciao, Tim D. Hotze

28 years

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HP Portable Plus

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> >OK, I'm staring at my recently acquired HP Portable Plus with it's oddball >power plug. The FAQ tells me it wants 6V, but the only thing I have that >fits is an 8V supply from a 9114, which I'm sure will do the trick, but I >don't see two things: a polarity key and a power switch. Does the Plus >care about polarity? If not, how do I turn it on? What is the Portable Plus? Is it related to the HP110 ? Hans

28 years

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More stuff acquired

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> >I paid $120 for this lot, which was more than I wanted to. I guess I >didn't do too bad considering I talked the guy down from $200. Well, come >to think of it, with the completeness of the Yamaha, plus the fact that >MSX computers are so rare in the states, and the cool factor and scarcity >of the Integral PC, $120 isn't bad, but its still more than I wanted to >pay :) > I've been haggling with a guy for an Integral PC for a while. He wants $50. Maybe I should give in.

28 years

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Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Desie Hay <desieh(a)southcom.com.au> >I have one question , well I actually have two...... >though, what software came on cassetes? >and what is the most common fault in the IBM full height floppy drives that >makes them die??? > >anyone?? > 1. I don't think any software would have come on cassette as it was meant to be used with the "Cassette Basic" in ROM. 2. I've noticed the little flat belt drives on the full height drives go slippery often and stops them working. Hans

28 years

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HP Portable Plus

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Doug, The FAQ are wrong! It's 8 VAC the same as the 9114. There's no polarity key since it's AC. Turn the PP on by pressing any key (except shift, control or extended char) for at least 1/4 second. Turn it off by pressing the F8 key when OFF is shown on the key labels for that key. If OFF isn't shown, try pressing the USER or MENU keys until OFF is shown. The half-moon looking key controls the screeen contrast. Joe At 01:57 AM 5/26/98 -0500, you wrote: >OK, I'm staring at my recently acquired HP Portable Plus with it's oddball >power plug. The FAQ tells me it wants 6V, but the only thing I have that >fits is an 8V supply from a 9114, which I'm sure will do the trick, but I >don't see two things: a polarity key and a power switch. Does the Plus >care about polarity? If not, how do I turn it on? > >-- Doug > >

28 years

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Tandy web page malarkey

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>Joe, > >Actually, I wasn't crying at all until I saw in "The Road Ahead" where the >marketing manager took complete credit for the entire concept and design. >Too bad the design was a prototype and not fully debugged. Guess he got >what he deserved. Besides we were only promised the first 2000 of production. > >Ray Holt Actually, remember that they DIDN'T MAKE $599 per unit, because the cost of production was probably at least $250-350. Then they didn't directly sell them to end users, but to resellers, for about a $100 max profit... it adds up. Unless you bought it directly from RS, where I guess you made their lying pockets bigger. Actually, if I were in your posistion, I'd be mad that I didn't put more bugs in!!! Just be glad that you eventually got some decent jobs, and credit for your work. I'm sure that bigger things have happened in world history, but I can't name any at the moment. Don't worry, I think that all of us give you credit for your work. (Mostly to Sam Ismail): Is there going to be a VCF Journal or something that we can buy? Unfortuanately, I'll be in Guyana in school at the time in question... kinda hard to go 4,000 away from class. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze

28 years

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Tandy web page malarkey

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

>Ray will certainly have his day soon. Everyone has their 15 minutes of glory. His will be a lot longer than 15 minutes. >> (Mostly to Sam Ismail): Is there going to be a VCF Journal or something >> that we can buy? Unfortuanately, I'll be in Guyana in school at the time in >> question... kinda hard to go 4,000 away from class. > >Yes. I will definitely be producing a show album for VCF2, including the >talks on cassette. I'm still working on the VCF 1.0 "Lecture Series" >(should have had it done by now but work is sucking up all my time). Thanks. I'll have to see how that turns out. >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 05/11/98] > Tim D. Hotze

28 years

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WANTED: TRS-80 Model 1 schematics

by dastar＠wco.com

Does anyone know where I can secure a copy of the schematics for the TRS-80 Model 1? PS. I have schematics for the TI-99/4a if anyone is interested. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me...I voted for Satan. Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/05/98]

28 years

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RETROCOMPUTING LIQUIDATION

by stephen.j.gabaly＠lmco.com

I offer $100 for the IMSAI CPU card and IMSAI documentation. steve -----Original Message----- From: Wirehead Prime [SMTP:wirehead@retrocomputing.com] Sent: Sunday, May 10, 1998 6:49 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RETROCOMPUTING LIQUIDATION Over the next several weeks I will be liquidating my collection of antique computers. I won't go into the reasons why except to say that the reasons for doing so are not bad. In other words, I'm not being forced to do it by bad circumstances. I'll leave it at this: I need the space in my home to expand a business venture that has brought me a great deal of genuine happiness over the last few months. I will be liquidating the following: TRS-80 Model III with Software Northstar Horizon with spare CPU card and a spare grungy chassis 2 Commodore 128 computers and 1 1571 disk drive and some miscellaneous Commodore peripherals 2 Commodore 64 computers with no PSs in unknown condition Ohio Scientific Challenger in working condition with keyboard and monitor Computer Systems Associations Micro 68000 Development System TEI 22 slot S100 backplane 2 small boxes of S100 cards including an IMSAI cpu board, several static ram cards, a Disk Jockey II disk controller and several others An entire shelf of S100 and CPM documentation including manuals for the IMSAI (original) and the Altair (copies) Epson QX-10 working with all software including CP/M 2.2, no printer Xerox 820 system, with spare motherboards, 2 8" drives, monitors and spare keyboards PDP-11/34 with RK05f and RK05j and last but certainly NOT least 3 PDP-8i systems, one cpu only, one with a high speed paper tape reader punch and one with a DECtape drive, lots of spare parts, full documentation including schematic print sets, DEC OS/8 on paper tape and several boxes of home-grown software on paper tape...includes ASR-33 Teletype in good condition - all condition unknown, not recommended for the beginning retrocomputerist GNT Paper tape reader/punch that connects to RS-232 with manual and a roll of black paper tape Now for what I want out of this stuff... Of course, cash is acceptable. I'll also accept trades for pre-press equipment like Linotype-Hell imagesetting equipment, RIPs and/or media developers/processors, small sheet-fed presses, black and white flatbed scanners suitable for a Macintosh, Quark Xpress 3.x up for the Mac, binding equipment like sheet collators or edge staplers, CD-ROM drive (any speed) for Macintosh, Macintosh font collections, digital duplicators, photocopiers and/or laser printers etc. If you think it's useful for preparing or printing a newsletter/magazine, I may be interested in it. Bet you can't guess what kind of business I'm involved in... =-) In some cases, I'll donate the equipment to a good home if I think it's warranted. The only thing I can't donate is the PDP-8s as I have a significant investment in them and need to get $250-$300 each from them on average to recover my retrieval costs. Buyer/trader must either pay shipping costs from Des Moines, Iowa to your location or come to Des Moines to pick the items up. The PDPs will all have to be picked up as each is in a 6' tall rack about 24 inches wide and deep. All bids and trade offers should be made via private email as this is the only public posting I'll make. I'm not going to make up any complex rules about what bid I'll select or deadlines etc. But if I say you got it for a specific price/trade and a higher one comes in, well that's just too bad for me. So don't expect an IMMEDIATE answer on your bid. If you need more information/specifics on an item, send me private email and I'll give you all the info I can to help you make a decision. Let the frenzy begin!!! =-) Anthony Clifton - Wirehead PS: I'll be discontinuing the website at www.retrocomputing.com in a month or so I can focus all my resources on the new venture.

28 years

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More stuff acquired

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

>(Why does everybody have an IPC but me? I want my IPC!) Not everyone... I'm still looking for mine. 8^( I swear, if Sam keeps posting all these neat finds, one of these days I'm gonna figure out where his garage is and pay him a visit (at about 3am)... 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years

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Tandy web page malarkey

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> writes: > Oh come on. The PET I can agree with, but the TRS-80 still required the > purchase of an external monitor, and one could just as easily (if not more Yes and no. You could buy a TRS-80 without the monitor, but Radio Shack advertisements featured it as a system including the monitor and cassette recorder, and the featured prices were for complete systems (not like the "monitor not included" you see in computer ads these days). And the pricing was set up so that if you bought the computer and the monitor you got the cassette recorder and manual "included free". Source: "Radio Shack TRS-80 Microcomputer System Products" catalog "New for 1978", and I'm thinkin' I got it in early 1978, certainly before I saw a Level II BASIC system -Frank McConnell

28 years

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profile controller card needed.

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

if you have one that works, i need it so i can actually use a profile i have. i can either trade pc or apple // cards including apple mouse cards or buy it outright. message me privately, please. david

28 years

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More stuff acquired

by dastar＠wco.com

Well, I picked up some more goodies today. An HP Integral PC. I didn't much pay attention to the one Frank M. brought to VCF 1.0 so it was all new to me when I actually started messing with this one. I couldn't get it to do anything useful though. How do I drop out of PAM and into a shell? This one has a 1Meg RAM Carrier and a Serial Interface. An HP75D in a little docking station which has a built-in modem. The computer itself has a Text Formatter ROM module and an 8K RAM module (its neat, it tucks away inside the battery compartment). It also has a magnetic program strip reader. A Yamaha Music Computer. This is one of those MSX jobbies. I got a fairly complete system: computer, printer, 3.5" disk drive, music keyboard, some carthridges & tapes, manuals. It's pretty neat. Here's a hoot from the _MSX BASIC Reference Manual_: "MSX is an open ended system standardized throughout its full range of manufacturers and models--the final step towards the dream of perfect compatibility." I paid $120 for this lot, which was more than I wanted to. I guess I didn't do too bad considering I talked the guy down from $200. Well, come to think of it, with the completeness of the Yamaha, plus the fact that MSX computers are so rare in the states, and the cool factor and scarcity of the Integral PC, $120 isn't bad, but its still more than I wanted to pay :) Oh yeah, somehow my 220v computer came up and the seller ended up lending me a 110/220 step up/down transformer. The only problem with using this on the 220 computer I have is that it has those funky European two-prong outlets on it, and no exposed wiring. Now I'll have to go find some funky Euro two-prong plugs. I appreciate all the responses I received regarding my query. I just haven't had time to go through them yet. But I'm hoping I can leave the original power supply intact inside the computer and not have to do any modifications to it by using this transformer. My only reservation is the fact that it doesn't have a ground plug. I'm sure I can just pass the ground connection on from the computer to my wall outlet since the ground lead is attached directly to the computer case, no? BTW, the computer in question is the California Technology International 1032-A Z80 machine (crica 1979) that I mentioned was among the rarer in my collection. It has a 1-line by 16 character 16-segment LED display, a built-in stringy floppy drive, and 32K RAM. The keyboard is a flat membrane. A very odd beast. I got it shipped from a guy in Denmark, which explains the 220v power supply. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/11/98]

28 years

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Best way to read N* disks??

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: What's the best way to read N* DSDD CPM disks on a PeeCee? I downloaded 22disk from Sydex, but the configuration file that lists the supported CPM types does not list Northstar. Maybe it's supported in the full version of 22disk. Anyone know? Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking Collector of classic computers <<<========== Reply Separator ==========>>>

28 years

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Prices to pay for old computers...

by rcini＠email.msn.com

On Fri, 22 May 1998 08:46:50 -0700, Kip Crosby <engine(a)chac.org> wrote At 11:20 5/22/98 -0400, Marty wrote: > What exactly is the distinction between the "Series 0" and "Series 1?" > To me a no floppy 5150 16KB-64KB would be missing a floppy controller > and floppy drives. >>I don't know and have never known. Unless I miss my guess, the tech ref >>was the same for all 16-64's, so there's probably no telling from docs >>unless someone has access to IBM internal memos. I thought that I remember reading somewhere that the difference was the ROM version. There were two versions, one in early August, 1981, and one in late-August (I have a FAQ on this somewhere, I just have to find it). The early-August machines are *very* rare from what I have read. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking Collector of classic computers <<<========== Reply Separator ==========>>>

28 years

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Voltages on S/34 DC distribution panel

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Thanks, but I've decided to give the thing to William Donzelli if he has the time to pick it up. If not, it's one less System/34 in the world (the administration cares not for computer history). > >The plate at the very top of this assembly is +5V distribution. >The smaller plate just below and left of it is the O/C Sense Plate. > >Pins on middle DC panel: >+5 VDC Feature PS B >+12VDC Feature PS A >+12VDC Feature PS A (Or regulator) >ditto >-4VDC base >-4vdc base >+6vdc base >-5vdc base >ditto >ditto >+8.5 vdc base >ditto >+24VDC base >ditto >-24VDC base > >The bottom panel is the Feature Distribution Assembly >Pins: >+5VDC Feature PS C >ditto >+8.5VDC >+12VDC >-5VDC >-12VDC >+5VDC Feature PS D >ditto > >There! > >This came from the IBM System/34 5340 System Unit Maintenance Manual. >(SY31-0457-5) >------- > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

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Best way to read N* disks??

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< What's the best way to read N* DSDD CPM disks on a PeeCee? I download <22disk from Sydex, but the configuration file that lists the supported CP <types does not list Northstar. Maybe it's supported in the full version o <22disk. Anyone know? It's not possible. The format is HARD SECTOR and none of the softsector controllers can read it. There is no way to fiddle a PC controller to read it either. This is typical of most hard sector formats. Allison

28 years

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IBM System/3 disk packs...

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

I got a few disk packs (RL02-style thingies) from an IBM System/3 (What's that?) Any chance of reading these on my PDP-11? One has the label SYSGEN on it... Anyone else capable of reading these? -------

28 years

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11/34a help #2

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Thank you Tony, for your response. I will continue this here on the list for the possible benefit of other collectors... but private e-mail is welcome as well. (I am not re-posting my previous msgs or replies.. ) So: given an 11/34 with the regular (?) 9-slot system unit, from the right going left I have: cpu,cpu, console card+boot/term, 128Kmem, 128Kmem, slu/ltc, blank, blank, bus term. I removed the existing grant continuity cards. I have the printsets on these cards, and a selection of manuals, but not enough info to figure out the details of hardware config. As currently (above) set up, the machine is autisitic and the console malfunctions (no display and all leds lit dim. What is the deal with the slots? With the red/white guides? I can't remember or find out exactly *which* slots each module ought to be placed in. I have figured out the switch settings for the 9301 from the schematics, but it's the 48 on the SLU I'm scared of... any pointers to where I might find them listed? (DL11W, M7856) Thanks again... it's exciting to drag this thing out of it's coma.. JOhn

28 years

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Prices to pay for old computers...

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>> Of the 16K-64K mb's there are reputed to have been two distinct series, >> called "Series 0" and "Series 1." A 16K, Series 0, no-floppy IBM PC is >> alleged to have sold at auction in the UK for over UKP 10,000 ....and my >> intuition (but no more than that) detects an institutional buyer. (And not >> auction like eBay -- auction like Christie's.) what were the differences between the two? I've got a 16KB model somewhere with cassette interface; it's got a floppy controller in it too, so I don't know whether that implies that the BIOS has been re-burnt at some point to handle this (it's funny joining this list - it's scary how much of this stuff I would have known at one point and have since forgotten!!). I seem to remember scrapping a good twelve or thirteen of these boxes a few years back working for a firm specialising in bringing old computer gear back to life (it was amazing how much strange stuff from the 70's and early 80's I saw pass through that place!). The local scrap dealer would only pay about 2 pounds for each system, so the whole lot just went in the skip out the back of the warehouse... it's funny how much perfectly good equipment I saw get slung out just because there wasn't space for it and we had several piles of spares, seems a shame considering that someone somewhere would have made use of it!! back on topic though, what cassette unit could be connected up to the original PC machines? Was it a custom IBM unit only (similar to the way the C64's only accept Commodore tape decks), or could anything be used if a cable was made up? cheers Jules >

28 years

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Many interesting things learned today

by dastar＠wco.com

I met with my latest VCF2 speaker, Ray Holt, today, and boy does he have some stories to tell. The guy is amazing. His first commercial work was with AMI, which made microprocessors and custom logic back in the early 70's. Ray was responsible for the AMI 7200 and 7300 processors. AMI decided to drop their microprocessor line in the 1973 timeframe saying, according to Ray, that "there was no future in general purpose microprocessors, and everyone was moving towards custom controllers." :) Ray joined a consulting firm called Compata, Inc., and for a while he was working for Intel as a subcontractor with his soon-to-be business partner, Manuel Lemas, training engineers in different high-tech companies how to use the Intellec-4 (based on the Intel 4004). I only just learned that there was indeed an Intellec-4 from some material Ray gave me. Neat. He then went on to start his own company with Manny Lemas called Microcomputer Associates Inc. There he created the JOLT computer and later the Super JOLT. The JOLT was 6502 based and had a current loop and RS-232 interface. It also featured a ROM called the "DEMON" (DEbugger/MONitor). Tens of thousands were produced, and the JOLT is still in production today(!) used in embedded controller applications. Ray brought along the original JOLT prototype to show me. Two amazing things about this computer. It was made in the early-mid 1975 timeframe (very soon after the Altair hit the streets) and included a complete computer (CPU, RAM, ROM, current-loop/serial interface) on a PCB about 4"x8"! This is amazing for that timeframe. It could be expanded up to 64K with add-on RAM boards that piggy-backed to the main computer, and he also made Peripheral Interface Adapter (PIA) cards for it, as well as a cassette controller card that could control up to three data recorders on one board! The system he showed me had the interface board and two extra 4K RAM boards stacked with the main computer board. He also had a good story to tell. One day some guy named Steve Wozniak came by and bought a JOLT from him. A few months later he heard about the Apple 1, and then the Apple ][. Interesting, no? Ray later designed a computer called the VIM-1 (Versatile Interface Module). The VIM-1 was Ray's answer to the Mostek KIM-1. His company was then acquired by Synertek, and the VIM-1 was changed to the SYM-1. Ray brought along the 25,000th SYM-1 which was given to him as a token of achievement by Synertek. All the traces were etched with gold. Ray said there were about 50,000 SYM-1's produced (there was also a SYM-2) before Synertek folded. The story behind that is Synertek was bought by Honeywell, and Honeywell, through poor management, ran the Synertek division into the ground. Ray said there is still a guy running a company in San Jose with a name that has "SYM" in it (SYMCOM?) who still produces or maintains SYM-1 boards for the many, many clients who still have them in use. 50,000 units is a huge number, and this just makes me laugh harder when I hear about "collectors" paying $405 for a SYM-1 on eBay. PS. I ended up with an original copy of the SYM-1 schematics. Ray then told me his remarkable version of the origins of the TRS-80 Model 1. Ray's company was approached by Radio Shack to build a computer for them that they wanted to market. Ray put together a working prototype in about a week from scratch that included Micro-Soft BASIC, 4K RAM, an integrated monitor, and an integrated keyboard. He and Manny then flew to Texas to demonstrate the unit. The RS folks were thrilled, and asked if they could hold onto the unit for a few days to look it over. Without signing anything, Ray and Manny agreed and went back home. A few days passed and they hadn't heard anything from RS, so they called them up but were told to chill. More time had passed with no response from RS and they started getting anxious. Finally, after a month of calling to find out when they would get their computer back, a box arrived one day in the mail. In it was the remains of their prototype, hacked to pieces. It was obvious that it had been reverse engineered. A short while later, Ray found out that the computer RS decided to release as their TRS-80 Model 1 was based on the design Ray had come up with! They went to a lawyer but were told that there was nothing that could be done since they didn't even have a receipt for their plane ride to Texas signed-off by Radio Shack (they paid for the plane tickets themselves). Ray said he later learned that the project manager who Ray and Manny had dealt with took credit for the TRS-80 design! The guy took Ray's design and passed it on to corporate as his own! Comments from you RS-heads? Allison? Ward? Ray's had a very fruitful career, and is responsible for at least 3 of the true classics we collectors seek out. But of what I've told you here, it pales in comparison to the work Ray Holt did prior to his days at AMI. Of course this is a teaser. We're saving that for VCF2. So if you want to hear it first, make plans to come to VCF2. Otherwise, read about it in the papers. :) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/11/98]

28 years

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11/34a help

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Hello list. Having three (3!!) *entire* days off, I have decided to try and make one nice PDP11 system out of the various Bits and Pieces strewn about the place. And I have naturally run into a brick wall that I have not the knowledge or experience to scale. So I turn to the Experts and Gurus for a 'boost over'. I have two complete PDP11/34a systems and an 11/04, configured similarly with RK05s, RX01s and RL02s. One of these systems was actually working, and it's RK05 (0) died. In the (loooong) process of trouble shooting, I found that the entire system's DCLO line was the culprit, but after fixing that, the system never would boot out of ODT again... all ok, I'll deal with it later. Now later has come. I wish to have one working 11/34 system, with two RL02s, an RK05, a Decwriter III for the console, a Kennedy 9trk tape, a punch/reader, and at least one of the big SMD drives I have (System Industries 470MB Fujis) I have all of the above hardware save the formatter/IO for the Kennedy. Right now, I have a minimum system in a BA11 with the programmer's console: M8265 M8266 M7859 M9312 M7891 BF M7891 BF M7856 M9302 Power supplies have been checked are in spec. Bus grant cards are in (and undisturbed from when the thing actually used to *run) The DL11 is hooked to a known good VT100. On power-up, the Console shows all 0000000 and the 'Run' led... data can be entered into the disply but apparently not deposited... There is no SLU response on power-up, and I have an RS232 sniffer in the line and it indicates the proper static levels, but no data. I know this might not be enough info... but its a start. begin(whine) It's no fun having tons of gear in your living room if it just sits there whirring loudly... end(whine) Thanks in Advance John PS: Im trying to 'thin' my collection a little to concentrate on the PDP11 series... anyone in the SoCal area who would like to trade 'experience' for equipment... Mostly Plessey-badge Clones and probably the 11/04, various drives and bits and parts... I have a truck and can deliver... thanks

28 years

3
2
0 0

785 cc microcars (OT)

by thorh＠ismennt.is

At 14:59 23.5.1998 -0400, you wrote: >At 12:02 AM 5/23/98 -0700, you wrote: >>At 23:07 5/22/98 -0400, you wrote: >>>Yeah, but you Brits have got _weird_ concepts in transportation. >>>The Morris Minor for instance never should have been licensed as >>>an automobile -- a four-wheeled powered bicycle on its best day. >> >>Eee, lad, y're not up on yer British automotive innovation. The >>four-wheeled powered bicycle was the Berkeley Frisky. My other fave was >>the Ginetta 1600 R, which is what you got when you crossed a Ford Cortina >>with a bespoke tapered London suit. Then there was always, gawdelpus, the >>three-wheel Morgan. >>__________________________________________ >>Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org >> http://www.chac.org/index.html >>Computer History Association of California >> > How about the Austin Seven, in which, if I have been informed correctly, >the oil would migrate up the steering column and drip into one's lap. > > Cheers > Charlie Fox ('52 MG TD owner) > Hey, that subject line really hit me head on, so I hereby break the rule not to engage in an off-topic subject. You see, I subscribe to those two lists: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu and suzuki4x4(a)unix.off-road.com and filter my E-Mail by the headers...... and then suddenly...... the exact displacement of my car engine shows up on the classiccmp list!! The car in question is a 1981, 785cc, Suzuki LJ-80, it's a kind of a micro-jeep really and it has no electronics whatsoever. Sorry, clearly off-topic but I just could not resist. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Thorhallur Ragnarsson Electronics Technician Bjarmastig 1 Verkmenntaskolinn Akureyri IS-600 AKUREYRI Box 280 Iceland IS-602 AKUREYRI E-Mail: thorh(a)ismennt.is Iceland --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years

1
0
0 0

EMMATRONIC disk copy?

by thorh＠ismennt.is

Does anyone know a computer called EMMATRONIC? It was used as a control computer for knitting machines some 15-20 years ago, the mechanics of the knitting machines are running fine, but now there is only one reliable system/program disk left. The maker of the knitting machines is out of business some time ago and so will the knitting machines soon be if I can not make the owner a backup copy of the disk! I have been told it's some sort of Apple II for the European market but then again I might be totally wrong. I need to copy a 5.25" disk for this system, the format is unknown and unfortunately the disk is known to be protected somehow (at least the EMMATRONIC refuses to copy it) and also I have no working Apples. Any ideas/suggestions? thanks in advance. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Thorhallur Ragnarsson Electronics Technician Bjarmastig 1 Verkmenntaskolinn Akureyri IS-600 AKUREYRI Box 280 Iceland IS-602 AKUREYRI E-Mail: thorh(a)ismennt.is Iceland --------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years

1
0
0 0

Prices to pay for old computers...

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Marty <Marty(a)itgonline.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, 21 May 1998 22:47 Subject: Re: Prices to pay for old computers... > Are you refering to the original 16KB-64KB motherboard 5150 PC or do > you mean the 64KB-256KB motherboard 5150 PC? I have only seen two > original 16KB-64KB 5150 PC's. I'm certain there must be plenty of them > out there but I never see them. I see the 64KB-256KB motherboard > 5150's everywhere. > > Marty > > > >______________________________ Reply Separator >_________________________________ >Subject: Prices to pay for old computers... >Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet >Date: 5/21/98 5:45 AM > > > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au > desieh(a)bigfoot.com > museum_curator(a)hotmail.com > Apple Lisa Web Page: > http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm > > > One of the best examples of this would be the original IBM PC....... > now apparently the dudes on ebay say $100 for a IBM PC well if you have one > in its original box will all manuals and > all original parts, manuals, disks etc this would be a reasobabley fair > price to pay. .999% of all IBM PC I come accross > have been upgraded, > treated badly, hacked, and far from thier original condiditon, and there are > no manuals in site.............. > but if you have one with only the CPU at that it well, perhaps $0-10 is a > fairer price........ > You cant just say that xxxxx computer is worh $xx amount...... you have to > allow for some systems that have manuals, disks, > boxes etc............. > > systhems in these conditions are few and far between............ > > this is just my opinion on the subject so I would like to hear other peoples > comments.............. > > > > > ------ Message Header Follows ------ > Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com > (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) > id AA-1998May21.054516.1767.42801; Thu, 21 May 1998 05:45:16 -0400 > Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP > id CAA21789; Thu, 21 May 1998 02:42:58 -0700 > Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP > id CAA29832 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Thu, 21 May 1998 > 02:42:49 -0700 > Received: from hobart.southcom.com.au (root(a)hobart.southcom.com.au > [203.60.16.2]) > by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP > id CAA14995 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 21 May 1998 02:42:47 > > -0700 > Received: from mr-ibm (pAc5.hbt.southcom.com.au [203.60.23.198]) > by hobart.southcom.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA13271 > for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 21 May 1998 19:42:44 +1000 (EST) > Message-Id: <000e01bd849b$e5dcebe0$0f01a8c0@mr-ibm> > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:36:13 +1000 > Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu > Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu > Precedence: bulk > From: "Desie Hay" <desieh(a)southcom.com.au> > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Prices to pay for old computers... > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-To: <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > yes I am talking about the original 16kb-64kb model............ I wounder how many IBM PCs are still out there with only cassette input and 16KB of RAM............ no floppy drives............. oh well

28 years

9
16
0 0

Converting 220 to 110

by dastar＠wco.com

Ok, I'm no electrical wiz. I have an old computer that wants 220. First of all, I got this computer without the 3-prong plug (it'd been cut off). Without paying attention to the "220" which was written on the transformer inside, I wired a plug onto the power cord and plugged it in. Needless to say the unit didn't come on, but I'm hoping that it didn't mess anything up. I wouldn't think it did. Anyway, what can I do to run this thing off of 110? The transformer has a solid black lead going to the black wire of the power cord (through the switch), a black lead with a white stripe looped back into the xformer via a white lead, and a blue lead with a white stripe connected to the red wire of the power cord (through the switch with an inline fuse...the fuse is fine). The side connected to the cpmputer board has a rainbow of seven colored wires in the order (from left to right): brown, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet. 1547 is stamped on the transformer. ?. I'd like to make this run off 110 without having to modify the actual unit itself. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! [Last web page update: 05/11/98]

28 years

4
5
0 0

Many interesting things learned today

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<was based on the design Ray had come up with! They went to a lawyer but <were told that there was nothing that could be done since they didn't eve <have a receipt for their plane ride to Texas signed-off by Radio Shack <(they paid for the plane tickets themselves). Ray said he later learned <that the project manager who Ray and Manny had dealt with took credit fo <the TRS-80 design! The guy took Ray's design and passed it on to <corporate as his own! < <Comments from you RS-heads? Allison? Ward? Close enough. The internal story was it was a design that was used on the deektop of an engineer whose last name began with an L. Somehow I didn't buy it. The TRS-80 design was not very imaginative and some of the holes showed. What was scary is if the guy that did the trs-80 design was good he could have reduced the logic some and also incresed the speed! Allison

28 years

4
3
0 0

Z80 disassembler for unix ?

by kroma＠worldnet.att.net

>I am looking for a free (gpl, etc) Z80 diassembler for unix (linux, if it >makes any difference). A quick web search has revealed nothing, but >before I write my own, I wonder if anyone else has come across anything. > Check out http://www.gr.osf.org/~emcmanus/programs/makedis.html -- Kirk

28 years

2
1
0 0

Prices to pay for old computers...

by fmc＠reanimators.org

I wrote: > Except...on a peculiar ISA dual-port serial card that HP made > for the early HP Vectras. One D?-9S like a PC/AT serial > port, one DB-25S. To be fair, HP put a plastic tag out one side > of the slot to remind you that this was a serial port. Doggone it, I screwed up. The 9-pin connector is male, the 25-pin connector is female. So what you had sticking through the back plate was a 9-pin connector on top, a 25-pin connector on bottom, and a little plastic tag with orange print to one side of the 25-pin connector reminding you that this was a serial port. Thinking about it this morning I think I also remember an HP serial/parallel card with male 9-pin serial connector on top and 25-pin female connector on bottom...and a little plastic tag with black print to one side of the 25-pin connector reminding you that this was a parallel port. Good thing we didn't have many of those latter ones around in my shop, I was (still am, actually) in the habit of feeling out connectors with my fingertips to work out where the plug is supposed to go. How did things get this way? Well, HP was in the habit of putting female connectors on everything except cables and making their minis look sort of like modems. I once heard this referred to as "DTE in DCE drag" w/r/t the HP3000. -Frank McConnell

28 years

3
2
0 0

Nasty little Sanyo (was Re:Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old computers))

by scottk5＠ibm.net

-----Original Message----- From: Russ/Alice Blakeman [SMTP:rhblake@bbtel.com] Sent: Friday, May 22, 1998 9:06 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Prices to pay for old ...... When I had this nasty little Sanyo MBC-55x machine....... Just saw one of these at a friend's place tonight and she was interested in getting rid of it. I think the model number was MBC-5510 (???). She said she also had a printer that came with it. What is it? What would be a reasonable price to offer for it? Kirk Scott scottk5(a)ibm.net

28 years

8
15
0 0

Questions, questions

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I was told that most of these were pitched when they were replaced due to security concerns. Any truth to this rumor? ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Questions, questions Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 5/21/98 1:26 PM Marty wrote: > Speaking of Zenith 248 computers, does anybody have a guesstimate on > the amount of tempested Zenith 248's produced? They typically are > labelled Zenith Inteq. We had 25 of them in one course area on Chanute AFB prior to it's close and there were a lot of other secure areas that had requirements for them too. So just on one base you're probably looking at a few thousand. I don't even want to guess what the overall number was just for the USAF let alone the entire production cycle of the Inteq. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ Blakeman RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ ICQ UIN #1714857 AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998May21.132642.1767.42874; Thu, 21 May 1998 13:26:43 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id KAA10134; Thu, 21 May 1998 10:24:22 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id KAA83352 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Thu, 21 May 1998 10:24:10 -0700 Received: from bnllc2.blue.net (www.cruciblemagnetics.com [206.65.217.154]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id KAA23448 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 21 May 1998 10:24:09 -0700 Received: from bbtel.com (brand238.blue.net [206.65.221.238]) by bnllc2.blue.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA14120 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 21 May 1998 12:24:37 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <35646348.5AF29E7E(a)bbtel.com> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:24:24 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Russ/Alice Blakeman <rhblake(a)bbtel.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Questions, questions References: <1998May21.083932.1767.105139(a)smtp.itgonline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

28 years

5
8
0 0

Vax 785 and microcode

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Here's a quote from a DEC manual I have: "The VAX 785 features fast RAM microcode..." Does that mean the 785 loads all it's microcode from the floppy? I've located the rest of a VAX 785 CPU, and I can have it, but the brakes in my car have failed (Rather spectacularly, I might add...) so they'll have to wait a day or two... Another thing: The emergency brakes in a Chevy Sprint will NOT stop the car in a hurry. They will, however, cause the car to SKID in a hurry... (No, I didn't hit anyone. But I did scare the bejesus out of myself.) -------

28 years

7
10
0 0

[Rare systems] & Garry Kildor

by bwit＠pobox.com

The following quote is from Forbes Magazine 80th anniversary issue: "On July 6, 1994 Kildall, 52, walked into a Monterey bar. He was wearing motorcycle leathers with Harley-Davidson patches-a would-be biker. There were some real bikers in the bar. Something was said. There was pushing and shoving, and Kildall died from injuries sustained to his head. An inquest called the death 'suspicious,' but no one was charged." Bob ---------- From: Ward Donald Griffiths III[SMTP:gram@cnct.com] Sent: Friday, May 22, 1998 8:53 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: [Rare systems] & Garry Kildor Desie Hay wrote: > >I'm sure a lot of people wish Bill Gates were in Gary's shoes (so to > speak). > > > > > well yes I suppose........but didnt Garry get killed in a bar fight a few > years ago??? No, he died of a heart attack after a good number of years on the PBS "Computer Chronicles" show. > No old Billy Gates has brought some good into this world............ > but 99.9999% of what he has done is just to steal and steal.......... Bill Gates and I are a month apart in age. My zits cleared up, he became a billionaire. I guess we're even. -- Ward Griffiths They say that politics makes strange bedfellows. Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else. Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_

28 years

2
1
0 0

Prices to pay for old computers...

by cgregory＠lrbcg.com

There were several manufacturers who made drives for the Commodore line of computers. I have two or three examples around here someplace. Chinon is a name that comes to mind, but I know there were several more as well. Cliff Gregory cgregory(a)lrbcg.com -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> To: Cgregory <Cgregory> Date: Saturday, May 23, 1998 2:34 AM Subject: Re: Prices to pay for old computers... >Well, if you're alluding to the Disk ][, this was not an effort by Apple >to be "non-standard", but was basically due to the brilliant hacks of >Steve Wozniak in adding an inexpensive and simple disk controller to the >Apple ][. And as far as aftermarket goes, I can't think of even one drive >that was made to work on any Commodore that wasn't manufactured by >Commodore, but I myself have at least five examples of disk drives made >for the Apple by random no name manufacturers. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Ever onward. > > September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > [Last web page update: 05/11/98] > >

28 years

2
1
0 0

cat Xerox | Apple | Microsoft ?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I whole-heartedly, unequivocally agree. But you're discounting Linux. <I'm surprised. Five years from now Windows' dominance will be a <non-issue. The world will have been made much more colorful and free by <Linux. I hope you believe me because I'd hate to prove you wrong in fiv <year's time (plus I need to get a win after being called on my "bzzt" fo <being wrong about the origins of Unix :) Linux is free and it may be better (it's abosolute hell to install) but Linux is not the default OS on every wintel box nor io it it shipped with more than a fraction of a percent of them. Also for those interested in running the small landslide of apps out there for DOS/WINDERS Linux is a non player. Why do I say that, I have linux, it doesn't run PADS, Gcadd, most of my cross assemblers and a few other apps I depend on. I've tried, even WP5/dos under linux is strange and tends to die. Setting up an IP network is pure hell compared to setting up DECNET. Like win95 and later it also requires more than the 8mb of ram I have or it runs poorly. It's windowing system is a hog (I'm used to running VMS/DECwindows and a half dozen engineers in 8mb on a VAX!). Linux(freeBSD, netBSD, Minix etal) is not the cure all, its a good competitor and offers things for some users that would otherwise have to run NT(even nastier) but, it's not engineerd for the common user. Then again, I've never installed a W95 system nor will I anytime soon. I do run W3.1 and compared to doing a dos6.22/w3.1 (or VMS) install linux is very painful and unpleasent. There is a lot to be fixed for the user that want's to run stuff rather than run make files. Like it or not a software investment determines the value of an OS in the long run. It's why I also run CP/M-80 still. This is computer history, it's also how we have the Y2k problem and some pretty dumb software as well. Allison

28 years

6
8
0 0

Cassette formats (was: Prices to pay for old computers...)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<At one time or another, I was struck by the similarity of the CoCo's <cassette format and the now-ancient Kansas City Standard. Were they <actually identical? Did RS implement the KCS for the CoCo, or was it <just something kinda similar? And if TRS-80-->CoCo and CoCo-->KCS, <does that mean that maybe IBM just adopted KCS instead of making up <their own format? (A shocking idea, I admit...) Unless the character rate was 300baud it wasn't true KCS. The only one I know for sure that was 300baud was the trs-80 L1 basic as L2 was faster data rate. They could have copied the data format or even the encoding but I'm fairly sure most were faster tha 300 baud used far less hardware (usually a output bit or two and an input bit) plus code to make it fly. I used to use a non redundant version of KCS that I did in software for 8085 and the like at 1200 baud, retaining the self clocking FM that KCS is. At one point I'd tried pushing and 4800baud FM worked rather well on a really good mono tape recorder, 10 KC is a resonable upper limit for good tape and heads even though most go to 12-17khz. As I could count on at least one edge per bit and if an edge did not occur for 2 bit times it's was an error (drop out or noise). Allison

28 years

1
0
0 0

Prices to pay for old computers...

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Kip Crosby <engine(a)chac.org> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, 23 May 1998 2:09 Subject: RE: Prices to pay for old computers... >At 16:31 5/22/98 +0100, you wrote: >>back on topic though, what cassette unit could be connected up to the >>original PC machines? Was it a custom IBM unit only (similar to the way >>the C64's only accept Commodore tape decks), or could anything be used >>if a cable was made up? > >There was a discussion on here a while back about whether IBM had ever made >cassette decks to attach to that port, and IIRC, the outcome was >inconclusive. If such a thing existed, certainly there were never many of >them. In general, the favorite commodity cassette recorder for the purpose >was one of the long Panasonics with the carrying handle. >__________________________________________ >Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html >Computer History Association of California > > email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au desieh(a)bigfoot.com museum_curator(a)hotmail.com Apple Lisa Web Page: http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm yes a cable is needed on one end it has the plug for the IBM and on the other it has 2 connectors for the input and output on the cassette player....

28 years

1
0
0 0

1.2Mb Teac Floppy Question

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

OK, the drive isn't a classic, but the computer it's going into definitly is. I finally got the CatWeasel Controller for the Amiga that I've been wanting. I'm putting it in a A2000 since that's the only thing I've got that can take a 5 1/4" floppy drive. I picked up a new Teac FD55BV-16-U floppy drive, and can't seem to get it to work with the controller. I think the problem is that I need to change the jumper settings. So I'm wondering if anyone has the jumper settings for one of these drives. As for the CatWeasel Controller, it's a controller that allows you to use normal PC floppy drives on an Amiga (they also make a PC version). It has the added benifit of being able to read numerous disk formats, which is why I got it. Once I get it figured out I'll write up a review for the list since I think it might be of serious intrest to every one here as a way to copy old floppies onto an archival CD-R or whatever media you want. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html |

28 years

1
0
0 0

Z80 disassembler for unix ?

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

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28 years

1
0
0 0

Voltages on S/34 DC distribution panel

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

The plate at the very top of this assembly is +5V distribution. The smaller plate just below and left of it is the O/C Sense Plate. Pins on middle DC panel: +5 VDC Feature PS B +12VDC Feature PS A +12VDC Feature PS A (Or regulator) ditto -4VDC base -4vdc base +6vdc base -5vdc base ditto ditto +8.5 vdc base ditto +24VDC base ditto -24VDC base The bottom panel is the Feature Distribution Assembly Pins: +5VDC Feature PS C ditto +8.5VDC +12VDC -5VDC -12VDC +5VDC Feature PS D ditto There! This came from the IBM System/34 5340 System Unit Maintenance Manual. (SY31-0457-5) -------

28 years

1
0
0 0

cat Xerox | Apple | Microsoft ?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

I'll make this the last rant on list... However I invite off list discussion. It's a matter of keeping the on list comments "classic". I don't hate unix, it does dissappoint me that with all the hoopla installation is not better explained. IE: installation for non unix weenies. There is little attempt to communicate in such a way that doesn't assume unix socialized as the norm. I did pick up Linux for Dummies to get Redhat that comes with it and it was at least more direct. <Believe me when I tell you (and I can only back this up with gut <instincts) that it doesn't matter. The world is changing, and if nothin <than by sheer force of will, Linux will prevail, or in the very least <crush the MS monopoly. I think it is not far fetched in the least to <imagine in five years that manufactures like Dell and Compaq and Gateway <will start selling Linux boxes, as long as the DOJ is reasonably They already do but by MS license they can put linix in it and still pay MS. Till that stops they will be dos boxen. <Well, I don't know what you're doing wrong but I've run a Linux box on a <486/33 with 8MB and it screamed. As for the apps not being available, <either give it time or bite the bullet and write them yourself and <contribute them to the linux collective. That's what its all about! I'm not in business to write schematic capture or PCB routing software. If I did I'd do it on the VAX before I would for a PC. <You've got to check out Applixware! All I say to this is "...yet!" Thi <may not all be true yet, but its happening. Linux is becoming easier fo <even the common turd to use. Like I said, give this time. Five years. I just recently got REDhat version to try in place of the former slackeware and it's easier to install but known solid dos apps still die in the middle and the few windows apps are unusable. The install was easier and it supported fewer devices. The docs were nearly current and I'm still trying to understand configuring IP networking. It's potential is there, the implimentation is still "you gotta be a unix head". I still find the idea of device drivers as part of the kernel requiring a compile to install some new device odious. Loadable drivers are done in many OSs. This last item is wy PCs with their nearly the same with millions of subtle versions either run well or just sorta. I run a PC to do work, I really don't like the cpu or programming it. If I'm going to write code it's for embedded hardware or 8048, 8751, z280, z8000 maybe pdp-11 or VAX. Allison

28 years

2
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Prices to pay for old computers...

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> wrote: > It's simple: > > DB-25 male: serial port > > DB-25 female: parallel port Except...on a peculiar ISA dual-port serial card that HP made for the early HP Vectras. One D?-9S like a PC/AT serial port, one DB-25S. To be fair, HP put a plastic tag out one side of the slot to remind you that this was a serial port. -Frank McConnell

28 years

4
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Cassette formats (was: Prices to pay for old computers...)

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

On Fri, 22 May 1998, Tony Duell wrote: ] According to the specs in the TechRef, any standard audio cassette ] recorder would work. There's even a link to set the PC's output voltage ] to suit either microphone or aux (line level) inputs. ] ] The pinout of the PC cassette connector is the same as that on a TRS-80, ] and the same cable works. My guess is this is not a coincidence - IBM ] probably intended PC owners to go to the local Tandy/Radio Shack and buy a ] cassette recorder and cable. When you say TRS-80, does that by any chance include TRS-80 Color Computers? Did they also adopt the tape format, in addition to the connector pinout? At one time or another, I was struck by the similarity of the CoCo's cassette format and the now-ancient Kansas City Standard. Were they actually identical? Did RS implement the KCS for the CoCo, or was it just something kinda similar? And if TRS-80-->CoCo and CoCo-->KCS, does that mean that maybe IBM just adopted KCS instead of making up their own format? (A shocking idea, I admit...) This is not entirely a moot point, because I have a CoCo handy, and an old KCS tape that I got almost by accident. I've been tempted to just slap it in and see if the CoCo can read it, but from previous discussions on the life cycle of mag tapes, I gather I might get only one chance to read the data. I don't want to waste that one chance until I am sure I have something that can actually read KCS. Eventually, I suppose I'll just write my own loader and be done with it. But it would be awfully nice if it was already done for me. Cheers, Bill.

28 years

2
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Prices to pay for old computers...

by KFergason＠aol.com

Chinon made (makes?) a mechanism, but I wasn't aware it made an actual Commodore drive. Blue Chip, MSD, CompuThink (Pet days), hmm Fsomething, the Accelerator? All those ad's coming back. CMD, obviously. Any more? Kelly In a message dated 5/23/98 3:46:24 PM Central Daylight Time, cgregory(a)lrbcg.com writes: > There were several manufacturers who made drives for the Commodore line of > computers. I have two or three examples around here someplace. Chinon is a > name that comes to mind, but I know there were several more as well. > <snip> > >Apple ][. And as far as aftermarket goes, I can't think of even one drive > >that was made to work on any Commodore that wasn't manufactured by > >Commodore, but I myself have at least five examples of disk drives made > >for the Apple by random no name manufacturers. > > >

28 years

1
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Apple ][ stuff

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 22, 22:50, Sam Ismail wrote: > Apple ][: Integer BASIC in ROM; normally had "manual start" ROMs > (required the user to boot the machine by punching in an > address and the GO command in the monitor) > Apple ][+: AppleSoft BASIC in ROM; autostart ROMs > Apple //e: Lowercase, 64K, 80 columns The ][+ also has different refresh circuitry for the DRAMs, and doesn't need the configuration blocks found in ]['s. The //e has a more comprehensive keyboard than the ][+ and can generate all the ASCII characters from the keyboard. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years

1
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Prices to pay for old computers...

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On May 22, 19:52, Russ/Alice Blakeman wrote: > My understanding of Commode-Ore is that there is a chip within the cassette > interface that allows the pooter to talk to the cassette drive. Not quite; the C2N decks have TTL-level in/out and a motor control line, all on a funny connector. The other three connections are +5V, ground, and "switch", which is a contact that senses when the PLAY key is pressed. They're controlled (at least in a PET) by part of a standard 6520 PIA (Commodore's copy of a 6820). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

28 years

1
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Mac monitor--can it be used for other computers?

by transit＠primenet.com

I have one of the older Mac Monitors, the AppleColor High Resolution, model MO401. It came out around the time the Mac II did (ca. 1987?) and uses a monitor cable with a 15-pin plug. Can this monitor be adapted for use with a. Apple II b. IBM PC's or clones c. Amiga 1000 d. C-64? Thanks! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Charles P. Hobbs __ __ ____ ___ ___ ____ transit(a)primenet.com /__)/__) / / / / /_ /\ / /_ / / / \ / / / / /__ / \/ /___ / -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

28 years

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cat Xerox | Apple | Microsoft ?

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> writes: > The problem is you're comparing an OS that will forever remain trapped in > the academic realm to an operating system that is transitioning over into > the commercial market. You've got companies making commercial use of > Linux and selling it to mainstream customers. This trend will continue to > grow. *chuckle* Sam's been reading the propaganda again.... You've got companies making commercial use of FreeBSD and selling it to mainstream customers too. And you know what? They aren't bound by the GNU Public License to release (in some cases significantly modified) source to anyone under any conditions if they don't want to. Well, except for those parts of the typical stock FreeBSD system that are encumbered by the GPL. You might note that the FreeBSD folks have been careful to keep those separate in their source tree, and that it's possible to have a running OS without those parts: it's not much of a desktop user or development system but it'll get your packets where they need to go. Now that's something you can do with FreeBSD that you can't do with Linux -- derive your own work without having to make the source accessible outside your organization. Believe it or not, some commmercial concerns think that this will better protect their intellectual property, and in spite of what Stallman and some other folks might like you to believe that is sometimes the right way to go about it. ObClassic: this model's been around a while, it's how a significant portion of Wollongong's networking products worked. Though in those days you needed a Unix source license from Western Electric so you could get your hands on the BSD 4.[23] sources from which you could derive your own work, which in Wollongong's case was porting to other Unixes (and sometimes non-Unix OSs, like MPE). -Frank McConnell

28 years

1
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Copies of Win286 and Win386

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: Does anyone have copies of Windows 286 and/or Windows 386 that I could get?? Just fleshing-out my MS operating systems collection. Rich Cini/WUGNET <nospam_rcini(a)msn.com> (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking Collector of classic computers <<<========== Reply Separator ==========>>>

28 years

1
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Converting 220 to 110

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<1547 is stamped on the transformer. ?. < <I'd like to make this run off 110 without having to modify the actual uni <itself. Assuming the power drain isn't in the kilowatt range JDR sells 110/220 transformers in the under $100 range. They sell them for to run 110 stuff on 220 but they can be sued the other way. Do use a plug on that 220 unit that is unique so it doesn't get plugged into something other than what you want. Allison

28 years

1
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Prices to pay for old computers...

by engine＠chac.org

At 16:31 5/22/98 +0100, you wrote: >back on topic though, what cassette unit could be connected up to the >original PC machines? Was it a custom IBM unit only (similar to the way >the C64's only accept Commodore tape decks), or could anything be used >if a cable was made up? There was a discussion on here a while back about whether IBM had ever made cassette decks to attach to that port, and IIRC, the outcome was inconclusive. If such a thing existed, certainly there were never many of them. In general, the favorite commodity cassette recorder for the purpose was one of the long Panasonics with the carrying handle. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California

28 years

3
2
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Apple ][ stuff

by photze＠batelco.com.bh

Alright!!!! Let's get this thing started!!!! Seriously, I've got a ][+, with 64K and a Mountain Computers DA/AD card. Anyone have info on this??? Also, I'm getting a cool card that takes a snapshot of RAM and records it on a floppy, as well as one that keeps the RAM on during a power outage. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze ><< What I'd really like is to start a good long discussion on Apple use and > lore. If somebody has the patience to start this with me, I'd appreciate > it. I've got other stuff I want to know about but this'll do for now. (: >> > >great, lets get started. i first played with the apple //e in high skool and >subsequently failed computer science but its got me to where i am now. i have >every apple // model except for an original ][, //c+ and gs and i have plenty >of hardware and software to keep me using these computers for many many years. >at work i was playing around with MAME and some old computer emulators and >even found beyond castle wolfenstien which played JUST LIKE the apple version; >even the voices! i played plenty of that during classtime. i always wanted an >apple for myself when i was younger, and finally i can afford to get one; a >//e enhanced with duodisk drive and colour monitor; woo hoo! > >david

28 years

2
1
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Apple ][ stuff

by red＠bears.org

Hi. I found the following Apple ][ bits today and being the Apple neophyte that I am, I could use some information on them. Orange Micro Grappler +. How is this better than the Orange Micro Printer Interface that I got with my ][plus? I assume the quad DIP switch at the back end is to set communications parameters. Looking at the traces I'm guessing it's a serial interface. Mega-Bit RAM card. Looks pretty boring actually, but I don't see any obvious way to cable it to the motherboard RAM in the standard fashion. 16 chips, labelled 'C1516', 'C1515', or 'C1517'. No other markings on the chips. I suppose it's just standard 16k RAMs? The most interesting: a "Mockingboard Sound/Speech 1'. Looks remarkably like a DAC/speech synth. I'm guessing even stereo? It's got two DACs and a pair of LM386 chips. It's got three potentiometers across the top and a 4 pin BERG header which I'm thinking is the output stage. I want to play with this. How? Last but not least is the Apple ][ motherboard. I'm wondering which ][ it came from. I compared it to my ][plus and it looks remarkably similar with the following differences: Mystery board: Has 'APPLE II MAIN LOGIC BD RFI' silkscreened underneath the copyright and part number (820-0044-D), one bank of 300 ns Apple branded 4116 RAMs, and Apple/Microsoft ROMs. At the back of the board by the mounting holes it is marked '606-X548'. Apple ][plus: Has nothing silkscreened beneath the copyright and part number (820-0044-01 or -0I), three banks of 200 ns Apple badged 416C RAMs, and fairly generic looking ROMs that have only Apple copyrights on them. What are the differences between the Apple ][, ][plus, and //e? What I'd really like is to start a good long discussion on Apple use and lore. If somebody has the patience to start this with me, I'd appreciate it. I've got other stuff I want to know about but this'll do for now. (: Thanks. ok r.

28 years

2
1
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osborne?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

i decided to make a thrift store run and found two things of interest; an apple hd20 external scsi drive unit with the top off. had a regular old seagate st225N in it which surprised me. also found an osborne, complete with keyboard and dual floppies. i have seen one osborne before, but this one was all grey and had the word OSBORNE molded into the case (or was it the keyboard?) it also had a plastic trap door for the power cable and had a cheap plastic feel to it, unlike the earlier one i saw last year. can anyone place the time period it was manufactured? it was $10, so i might go back and get it after the holiday. david

28 years

2
1
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Mac POrtable system

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

About a year ago, I got a Mac Portable, which I really like. Back then, unfortunately, I had the tendency to upgrade everything to the most recent version, so I installed System 7.0.1 on it. Since then, I've wanted to play with an earlier OS to save RAM. I will eventually download OS 6.0.5, but for now, I just picked up WordPerfect 1.0.2, which has OS 4.2 on the disks. FInally, my question: when I try to boot off the disk, it freezes during the "Welcome to Macintosh" screen. It shows up fine when I boot of the hard drive, and Norton Disk Doctor doesn't show any problems. Ideas? In general, what is the earliest version the portable can run? By the way, it looks like I have all the needed files on the disk. PS, what should I pay for an ImageWriter II? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

4
3
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Pericom MX7200... (again)

by afritz＠iname.com

[I asked about this before (a few months ago) but I got no response -- maybe one of the new people can tell me...] Can someone tell me what a Pericom MX7200 is? It was a freebie (a appearnlty rightly so). It's got a genuine MC68000P12 in it. When I plug the video in and turn it on, it just sits at a blank screen with a flashing cursor in the corner. Sometimes it will come on with some sort of debugging screen (as in something's broken), but it will quickly flash off before I can read it fully. I'm guessing it's a broken trace on the PCB, as it's quite old and brittle. I've gathered that it's somesort of graphics workstation but I know nothing more. I've heard you used them to do graphics visualizations on a graphics-less VAX -- any truth to this? Thanks, Adam ---------- Adam Fritzler afritz(a)iname.com afritz(a)delphid.ml.org http://delphid.ml.org/~afritz/ ----------

28 years

1
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cat Xerox | Apple | Microsoft ?

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 06:23 PM 5/21/98 -0700, you wrote: >Sure the DOS license was a big initial push, but to say it was solely >responsible for the success of Microsoft is like saying the Model T is >responsible for Ford having the best selling vehicle in America today. True! You'd be leaving out the amazing stupidity of the american public. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years

2
1
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Apple ][ stuff

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-05-22 23:07:27 EDT, you write: << What I'd really like is to start a good long discussion on Apple use and lore. If somebody has the patience to start this with me, I'd appreciate it. I've got other stuff I want to know about but this'll do for now. (: >> great, lets get started. i first played with the apple //e in high skool and subsequently failed computer science but its got me to where i am now. i have every apple // model except for an original ][, //c+ and gs and i have plenty of hardware and software to keep me using these computers for many many years. at work i was playing around with MAME and some old computer emulators and even found beyond castle wolfenstien which played JUST LIKE the apple version; even the voices! i played plenty of that during classtime. i always wanted an apple for myself when i was younger, and finally i can afford to get one; a //e enhanced with duodisk drive and colour monitor; woo hoo! david

28 years

1
0
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Help aligning Kaypro disk drives?

by dpeschel＠u.washington.edu

A while ago I got a Kaypro 4'84 system for free and have been trying to bring it back to a state of stability and usefulness. The system as a whole was in good shape; my problems have been with the disk drives. I had hoped it was "only" old, worn-out disks that were causing the problem (and the disks are worn-out, as tests with 22DISK on a school PC show) but the drives themselves seem to be flaky. (Either that, or the new Verbatim disks I bought are substandard.) My worst fear is that the drives are corrupting the disks somehow. (Can this happen even when no writing is involved?) I have two spare drives; one is evidently SSDD and the other is DSDD -- I have not tested them. Only the DSDD drive is really suitable. These are, IIRC, 96-tpi MFM drives. They are made by TEC. (Not the same as TEAC, I suppose.) I would just put one in, except that I'm not sure if I need to do anything to align them. Even if I did need to, I undoubtedly don't have the equipment. Is alignment really important? What about on new drives? Could cleanliness be a problem? (I cleaned the heads with a head-cleaning kit a while ago; I put the dust cover on the computer for some time but stopped; however, the keyboard latches in front of the drives anyway. I keep the doors closed and the shipping inserts in the drives; I definitely have been careless about the order of inserting/removing the inserts and opening/closing the drives and turning on/off the computer.) It's very unsettling to think of my software eroding as I watch. I haven't found replacements for some of it. I've tried using 22DISK; there are two problems with this: 1) It doesn't like my formats very much, and 2) I've been using PC's in the computer lab and I don't trust those drives any more than mine! I may haul an ex-roommate's Korean '386 box out of the closet if I get desperate. The Apple ][ disk drives I've seen have had flawless performance; even PC 5.25" drives seem to do very well. I'm getting very tired of hearing my machine go "grkgrkgrkgrk ... grkgrkgrkgrk ... grkgrkgrkgrk ..." (It's one of those sounds that is instantly annoying and recognizable by pure instinct as a Very Bad Sound. I wonder what a list of those sounds would look like?) Thanks, -- Derek

28 years

5
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[Rare systems] & Garry Kildor

by desieh＠southcom.com.au

-----Original Message----- From: Greg Troutman <greg(a)husic.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, 22 May 1998 4:19 Subject: Re: [Rare systems] & Garry Kildor > >-----Original Message----- >From: Desie Hay <desieh(a)southcom.com.au> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers ><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Date: Thursday, May 21, 1998 1:09 AM >Subject: Re: [Rare systems] & Garry Kildor > > >>yes well, I can't spell, and I think that Garry Kildor could have been the >>bill gates of today if he had played his cards right > >I'm sure a lot of people wish Bill Gates were in Gary's shoes (so to speak). > > well yes I suppose........but didnt Garry get killed in a bar fight a few years ago??? No old Billy Gates has brought some good into this world............ but 99.9999% of what he has done is just to steal and steal..........

28 years

2
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cat Xerox | Apple | Microsoft ?

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Sure the DOS license was a big initial push, but to say it was solely responsible for the success of Microsoft is like saying the Model T is responsible for Ford having the best selling vehicle in America today. Microsoft was a development products company, not an OS company. When I got here in 1988, I remember seeing a revenue pie chart at the company meeting. We were at around 60-70% revenue from development products like C++ & FORTRAN, with a big slice from apps like Word & Multiplan, and DOS revenue was a tiny slice. In a decade where everything had to be written directly to the hardware to get any speed out of the 8088, you can hardly say that the DOS license had much to do with the success of the dev products. Our first, all time most successful Windows app, Excel, that nuked the Lotus 1-2-3 monopoly through ease of use and customer demand alone, was _ported >from the Macintosh_. How exactly could we have leveraged our ownership of Windows to make Excel successful when it wasn't even written for Windows? If IBM endorsing & bundling an OS makes it a monopoly, why is OS/2 dead? etc. Kai -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] Sent: Thursday, May 21, 1998 5:37 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: cat Xerox | Apple | Microsoft ? On Thu, 21 May 1998, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > We weren't, and aren't, Orwellian characters, > just folks trying to write software that people want to buy. Gee, I guess > it worked! So sue us! I think one reason Microsoft is being sued is that Microsoft software does not compete on the merits of the software alone. Windows 3.0 was the first almost barely usable/tolerable version of Windows. I'm not a Mac fan, but if you look at something like the Amiga and AmigaOS from 1985, it was such a clearly better operating system and windowing system PC environment compared to Microsoft's offering that if Microsoft had to compete on technical merit alone, they would have been out of business weeks after the Amiga's introduction. To suggest that Microsoft's success is due to writing software that people *want* to buy is disingenuous. Microsoft's success is due solely to the monopoly IBM gave them in 1982. To their credit, Microsoft is only about five years behind the curve. If IBM had kept the monopoly to themselves, we'd all be closer to ten years behind the curve. -- Doug

28 years

6
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System/34 parts available

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

If only he had some 20-amp 220-v current stored in a superconductor... *sigh* can't always get what you want. > >Since there was talk here in the recent past of reviving one of these. I >found the following on comp.sys.ibm.sys3x.misc: > >> I have about 40 logic cards, all the power supplies and an 8 inch floppy >> drive from a >> System/34. All are for sale for best offer. Could supply list of numbers >> if interested. >> >> Norm Helmkay helmkay(a)ibm.net > >Don't reply to me, I'm just an innocent bystander. > >-- >David Wollmann >dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

2
1
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cat Xerox | Apple | Microsoft ?

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 04:16 PM 5/21/98 PDT, you wrote: >article says the Apple got their idea from xerox in 1979, and MS >got their ideas from Apple, and now they have copied the Mac w/Win98 I quote from "The Mac Bathroom Reader" by Owen W. Linzmayer (a non-technical history of the Mac): "In return, Apple was allowed two afternoon visits to the PARC labs. When Jobs first visited with Atkinson in November 1979, he saw with his own eyes what all the fuss was about. He was so excited that he returned in December..." Actually, Jobs would have known all about it earlier if he had paid any attention to Jef Raskin, who had been trying to get him to visit PARC much sooner. >The article in the link argues that Win98 is much worse than the mac, >which I agree with. I am wondering about its statement that Apple >knew all about GUI before 1979 with their Lisa. AFAIK, the lisa >is ~1982... I dunno about Win98 vs. the Mac; I haven't seen either Win98 or MacOS 8, but yes, the way I see it, Apple stole from Xerox, Microsoft stole from Apple, Apple sued lots of people and won, Xerox Sued Apple and lost, etc. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

28 years

1
0
0 0

Prices to pay for old computers...

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 98-05-22 11:32:19 EDT, you write: << back on topic though, what cassette unit could be connected up to the original PC machines? Was it a custom IBM unit only (similar to the way the C64's only accept Commodore tape decks), or could anything be used if a cable was made up? >> i asked an old ibmer at work, and he said there indeed was a fru number for the cassette cable AND a tape deck! i'll have to remind him to look and see what the numbers are. david

28 years

1
0
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cat Xerox | Apple | Microsoft ?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

The Ford analogy would be correct only if the purchase of the car allow you on certain key roads and forced you to use only one brad of gas with a funny nozzle. You could not buy the car without either. <Microsoft's API monopoly allowed them to make mistakes and inferior <products and not only survice, but flourish. This was an unprecedented <advantage over ever other competitor, and continues to be so to this day This was one of MS marketing ploys. The other was licensing. <If Microsoft had to compete on an even playing field, I think they would <have been a good match for Lotus, and they probably would have put Word <Perfect to bed as well. But Borland? Geoworks? Novel? Netscape? Sun <Next? Apple? Amiga? I think we would all have much better software and <operating environments today if Microsoft had to compete soley on <technical merit. Early on MS was recognized as a language house (MSbasic, Basic compiler, fortran, cobal...) They were good at that but applications was clearly the market though getting tools out there was the first step. <Too little, too late. IBM, famous for tying customers to proprietary <systems, gave away both the PC architecure and the O/S platform. Later on at first IBM PCs were seen as typical IBM and proprietary. This gave rise to dos on s100 and machines like the z100. <they own the browser market, they own the "API" (HTML, HTTP, etc.), and <eventually they'll own the internet. I, for one, don't like that idea. They also hold a peice of the internet backbone. <Of course, I put all of my disposable income into Microsoft stock, becaus <the strategy is *so* damn good. I love them as an investment, but I don' <like the way they grab power, and most of the time, I don't like what the <do with the power once they have it. Reminds me of the oil industry in the early 1900s. Allison

28 years

2
1
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Prices to pay for old computers...

by Marty＠itgonline.com

What exactly is the distinction between the "Series 0" and "Series 1?" To me a no floppy 5150 16KB-64KB would be missing a floppy controller and floppy drives. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Prices to pay for old computers... Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 5/22/98 11:10 AM At 17:22 5/22/98 +1000, Desie wrote: >yes I am talking about the original 16kb-64kb model............ >I wounder how many IBM PCs are still out there with only cassette input and >16KB of RAM............ >no floppy drives............. >oh well Of the 16K-64K mb's there are reputed to have been two distinct series, called "Series 0" and "Series 1." A 16K, Series 0, no-floppy IBM PC is alleged to have sold at auction in the UK for over UKP 10,000 ....and my intuition (but no more than that) detects an institutional buyer. (And not auction like eBay -- auction like Christie's.) __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998May22.111047.1767.43068; Fri, 22 May 1998 11:10:47 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id IAA19723; Fri, 22 May 1998 08:08:27 -0700 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id IAA60688 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Fri, 22 May 1998 08:07:25 -0700 Received: from relay.batnet.com (relay1.batnet.com [204.188.144.18]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with SMTP id IAA29232 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 22 May 1998 08:07:21 -0700 Received: from goldrush by relay.batnet.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA01218; Fri, 22 May 1998 08:06:27 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980522080349.00f4dc70(a)pop.batnet.com> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:03:49 -0700 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Kip Crosby <engine(a)chac.org> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Prices to pay for old computers... In-Reply-To: <004501bd8552$61b05340$0f01a8c0@mr-ibm> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: chac(a)pop.batnet.com X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

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