- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Although there are some software complexities, the hardware support need < for the single-supply Flash parts is simply providing a WE signal, just < like for an SRAM (but on a different pin, IIRC). What about 2816 or 2864 EEproms, easier to use than flash, single 5v too same footprint as 2716/6116(2kb) or 2764/6264(8kb). they are fairly cheap too. Like under 6$ from JAMECO or JDR. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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Elf99 - rebirth of a classic

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I have been in discussion with some folks about 1802's and the possibili < of producing a modern PCB for the Popular Electronicss Elf design. Han < Franke seems to think that there would be some interest in Germany for < a few units, enough to make me consider burning a board. I would be < curious to hear what other list members though about price, features, et < The good news is that Harris still makes the 1802 for less than $10, an < the TIL311 displays that the Elf calls for are available for less than $ < each, used. I'd be interested depending on version. < How authentic should a modern Elf be? Try to use 1822/2101 RAM or use If your building an elf then 2101, if your doing superElf go for 32k 62256. < UART? Add an I/O port? Add nothing to the Quest PCB layout? Remove < nothing? (There was a socket for a 16-pin PROM and room for onboard 780 < regulator as well as optional memory battery backup). The quest layout was the bare minimum elf. No expandability. I have one and expanding it is not appealing. An expandable elf would be of interest to me as I still have one (20 year old) 1802 doing not much. < How much would anyone pay for such a thing? The PCB would probably com < as a double-sided, plated thru-hole fiberglass board to the same dimensi < as the Quest board (I have one to compare it to). It would be in the < neighborhood of $40-$50, depending on how many extras and the order size For the quest board that is expensive for the bare board. < Another question, perhaps more on topic - would this count as a classic < It could be authentic as far as operation is concerned (toggle switches < and 256 bytes of accessible RAM), but it would still be on a modern < board, made recently. In short, does form or function denote "classic" I'd go with replica. < Yes, anyone who wants can still breadboard an 1802 together. It's a < pain. I never would have finished my Elf if I hadn't had the PCB < to stuff. The Elf99 would be a echo of the former classic, but a < fully working one. The base ELF was pretty trivial to build as the parts count was nothing. < Classic clones, anyone? Replicas of classics. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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Thrift store finds

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

also, mac se models that had the factory hi density drive installed have the FDHD stamped on the front like mine. In a message dated 11/9/98 11:41:21 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Marion.Bates(a)Dartmouth.EDU writes: > Motorola 68000, 8MHz, expandable to 4MB, came with either two floppy drives > or one floppy and one internal hard disk (80MB I think), and at some point > there was an FDHD (Floppy Drive High Density) upgrade available -- SE's that > have had the upgrade and new front case will say "Superdrive" on the front. > Upgraded power supply -- not the same as the analog board in the similarly- > shaped Mac 128/512/Plus. One expansion slot (I don't know what kind, but it > allowed for a video card so you could drive a second display, and a commonly- > found configuration is an SE driving a giant grayscale two-page display). > Introduced in March 1987 and discontinued in October 1990.

27 years, 5 months

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list host?

by jim＠calico.litterbox.com

If we don't find a list owner at u of washington, I can host the list on my home unix machine. Caviets apply - if the list clobbers me loadwise I'll have to ask it to move again. Can someone give me figures on how many people actually use this list? And for reference, my home unix machine runs continuously on the end of an ISDN link. It's a dx4/100 machine running linux. -- Jim Strickland jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? -----------------------------------------------------------------------

27 years, 5 months

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Interesting finds, may be more....

by museum＠techniche.com

Hi Gang, (I'm pretty sure that the system's discribed below are 10 yrs old) About a week ago I was out in Silicon Valley on business. I used to live out there so whenever I go out I try and hit all the surplus stores. At one place (name follows), I found a couple of interesting items. They had two models of old Panasonic computer. One was a Panasonic (senior?) Executive. This looked like a laptop on steroids. It was way too big for me to get back with me unless I was willing to trade space with some other stuff that I already had. They wanted $30 for it. It might still be there. The other item of interested was a (actually they had 2 on the shelf) beautiful Panasonic senior partner portable. This gem was cherry. It had never been used. For those of you not familiar with it, it has a built in thermal printer. It's about the size of one of the old compaq portables but the case has much smoother lines. It has a leather handle on one end that allows you to carry it in a vertical orientation, similar to the suitcases that the airline stewardess' use. The one I got still had the flimsy plastic protective cover on the leather handle. I also got a pristine roll of thermal paper still in plastic wrap, original manuals and diskettes. I wouldn't be metioning all of this except that as I was purchasing this prize (20 bucks by the way) and trying to find out if there was an original box available, the clerk told me that they about 30 of these still in their original boxes in the warehouse. They had just picked up the whole lot somewhere. So the chances are that they might still have a bunch if anyone is interested. I don't know if they will ship, but you can ask. If they don't then at least the list members who live in the bay area can check them out. If anyone is interested here's the info: Excess Solutions 430 E. Brokaw Road San Jose, CA 95112 (408) 573-7045 For the local guys, this place is located right on Brokaw about a block from the street that Fry's is on (towards 101) and on the same side of Brokaw as Fry's. Good luck. Jon

27 years, 5 months

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Elf99 - rebirth of a classic

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Allison Parent resonds: < > If you're building an elf then 2101, if your doing superElf go for 32 < > 62256. < < If I can lay my hands on a quantity of 1822/2101 RAMs, then I agree, < even though they will cost as much as the CPU. The 6264 was a fallback I happen to have a few tubes of both 2101 and 5101(cmos). < In any case, I would decode 7 or 8 upper address bits if I went with that would make expansion easier. < a larger SRAM and allow the user to stick in there what they wanted. < One other suggestion is room for a ROM. I could wire in two or three JE < sockets and let the builder pick what to go in the, one 62256 or a coupl < of 6264's and a 27128, for example. Fair idea... However a base quest elf with a 3x5" area of plated hole on a .1 grid for protoing would be just as useful. < The problem with replicating the SuperElf is the keyboard. I have no < idea where to get that chip from (74941?), nor an inexpensive source That could be hacked with a pal/gal but then is gets hairy. < Me, too. There are a couple ways of implementing expansion, Elf-II comp < and COSMAC VIP compatible. The VIP used those ubiquitous 44-pin cards. I have the drawings, manuals and I think the rom dumps for a VIP. That used a simpler keyboard arrangement. I never had much use for it's video scheme as I wanted minimally 64x16 text as my prefered mode. < I was thinking of extras like an area for the 1861 video, or a 2"x4" < perfboard prototyping area. In any case the Quest design wouldn't < be that expensive in sufficient quantities, but at q. 25, there's < a lot of setup charges to amortize over the small run of the boards. A < least $10 each (~$250 setup / 25 boards). If anyone can direct me < to a board house that will do a 6"x9" board with ~600 holes, three or < four sizes, plated through, with minimal setup charges, I'm all ears. < Unless I get *lots* of interest, I'm only considering a run of 25, < then that's it. I don't want to have 60 or 70 unsold boards hanging < around forever. Can't help on the board house. But the 2x4" proto area is desireable. Not that I'd use it but is the 1861 even available? I don't have any of them nor 1854s. < 40 pin CPU, 2x22 pin RAM, 11 switches, 2x7 pin displays, approx 10 CMOS < DIP parts x 14 or 16 pins, a handful of diodes and resistors... let's < say about 350 point-to-point connections, probably more. I breadboarded Compared to some of the projects I was doing then that was trivial. Try 16k of 2114 (32 of them), 2 2732s, z80, ctc, sio, 765 FDC, plus interface logic all on a s100 card. < The Quest kit was the base ELF plus a ROM socket and space for primary < and secondary power supplies. One suggestion for the Elf replica was < to use a standard 4-pin Molex connector and power it from a discarded < PC power supply. The Quest Elf kit just had two solder pads for 6.3V A < or +5V DC. I ran mine from my VIP regulated +5v supply. I used a stack of AA cells (6 of them and used the regulator), then would run a long time and was portable. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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NEC Multisync

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

>I saw an NEC Multisync in a thrift shop today. Looks like a nice >monitor, can do TTL and analog inputs. Could someone tell me what >exactly are the modes that it does? Also, are there any monitors like >this that can also take VGA inputs in addition? If this is the original NEC Multisync it will do anything from MDA to SVGA 800 X 600. The connector is a 9 pin MDA/CGA/EGA type but there is a digital/analogue switch that will allow VGA and SVGA if set that way. To use as a VGA you need an adaptor cable known as a "Multisync" cable which is 9 pin F to 15 pin F. Readily available and about $5 around here. I used to keep a bunch of different monitors around until I found what these can do. Another benefit is that they are usually very cheap because most people think they are only EGA.

27 years, 5 months

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Altair Speculation

by altair8800＠hotmail.com

>From: "Hans Franke" <franke(a)sbs.de> >Maybe, but zero feedback isn't realy a thing to rate - >I did a lot of eBay transactions within the last year >(>20) and have still a feedback of Zero - I don't care. You are right in your assertion that feedback for someone who is a bidder makes little difference. However, for a seller (like myself) it is extremely important. For example, I just had two auctions end tonight in which my bids for both of the items were about double that of what is usually realized on ebay for the same identical items. This happened because I have a perfect feedback profile and that alone results in higher bids. I have seen it time and again. My advice to anyone who wishes to sell repeatedly on eBay is to do whatever it takes to protect your feedback profile. In my case, it means a policy of satisfaction or money refunded (and I have rarely been asked to grant a refund). Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 5 months

1
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Thrift store finds

by Marion.Bates＠Dartmouth.EDU

--- You wrote: Found a nice Macintosh SE computer at my local Goodwill today... Anyone know anything about the SE series ? Speed, processors, memory ? Phil... --- end of quote --- Motorola 68000, 8MHz, expandable to 4MB, came with either two floppy drives or one floppy and one internal hard disk (80MB I think), and at some point there was an FDHD (Floppy Drive High Density) upgrade available -- SE's that have had the upgrade and new front case will say "Superdrive" on the front. Upgraded power supply -- not the same as the analog board in the similarly-shaped Mac 128/512/Plus. One expansion slot (I don't know what kind, but it allowed for a video card so you could drive a second display, and a commonly-found configuration is an SE driving a giant grayscale two-page display). Introduced in March 1987 and discontinued in October 1990. The SE/30, the only other one in the SE series, had a 68030 running at 16MHz, was expandable to 128MB of RAM, had a math coprocessor, and faster bus speeds. -- MB

27 years, 5 months

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Elf99 - rebirth of a classic

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< but it was a particularly twisted architecture that only a TRW satellit < programmer could love. An aside to all this... The 1802 was a very strange chip. It was by far the crudest and yet the easiest to program all at once. My pet peve is there are holes in the instruction set where a reciprocal instruction would have been nice but wasn't there. It redeeming feature was it was CMOS and the only other CMOS part at that time was the 6100 (PDP-8). What surprized me is that the 1802 (maybe the 05 too?) are still available. The 05 is desireable as it has the hard coded SCRT instuction (more like a procedure!). Allison

27 years, 5 months

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NEC Multisync

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

There are several Amiga monitors that do TTL+analog with VGA capability, but they require a cable adapter. I seem to recall that the Multisync may actually sync to 15kHz (NTSC). Can anyone say yea/nea on this? Kai -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin [mailto:maxeskin@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, November 09, 1998 3:25 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: NEC Multisync I saw an NEC Multisync in a thrift shop today. Looks like a nice monitor, can do TTL and analog inputs. Could someone tell me what exactly are the modes that it does? Also, are there any monitors like this that can also take VGA inputs in addition? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 5 months

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CLASSICCMP endangered?

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

-----Original Message----- From: Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, 10 November 1998 13:22 Subject: CLASSICCMP endangered? >To summarize, it looks like we may need a new host! > >-=-=- <snip> -=-=- > >>Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 08:09:13 -0800 (PST) >>From: Rebekah Skiver <bskiver(a)cac.washington.edu> >>To: Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com> >>Subject: Re: What the...? >> >>Bruce, >> >>The reason the list is closed is because there is essentially no owner. >>The previous owner has left the University of Washington and we are >>in the process of finding a new owner. >>At this time we do not know if the list will be continued or deleted. >So, there you have it. Was anyone else aware of this? News to me, only joined a couple weeks ago. If no-one in the US can do it, and washington.edu don't want to continue, I can host it from here. MX on our VMS box has pretty good mailing list support. Probably be better if a US host could be found though, since most of the traffic is from there. cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie South Australia. My ICQ# is 1970476 Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile) 61-8-8633-0619 (Home) 61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct) 61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)

27 years, 5 months

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PCJr: The LEAST collectible machine? (Was: FA: Apple Lis

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

>Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 00:29:33 +0000 (GMT) How does a light pen work? > >> >> Not to change the subject but has anybody ever seen the light pen for >> the PCJr? I've read in the PCJr literature that it was supposed to be >> available but haven't known of anybody having seen or used one. > >Well, there's a light pen port on the back, but I have no other real info on >it. I could find out the pinout if anyone wants to try building one. > >Mind you, there's a light pen connector on the original CGA card. And a >similar one on the MDA card with the right signals. The latter, however, >is known not to work with the 5151 monitor as said CRT has too long a >persistance. > >Again I can find pinouts/signal details. > >I seem to recall there being a circuit for a Tandy 1000 lightpen in >80-micro in about 1986. I suspect that would work with all the above systems. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 5 months

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iMac AddOn (was: Future Collectibles)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

>Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 18:51:05 -0600 (CST) Yes, but the iMac isn't an incremental improvement. It is in no way different from the other G3s, except for various annyances (built in monitor, no floppy drive, no SCSI), and USB (I don't like it). I wouldn't say the iMac:Mac::Mac:Lisa, but iMac:Mac::Platinum Mac:Beige Mac. It's an item people want because it looks cool, indeed precisely what Stevie was thinking. And, it's not even translucent! It has a metal case inside the plastic one! In fact, if the list is arond in 10 years, how about the person that's right buys the other an iMac? >> iMac came out. All of the detail to which you refer will be forgotten >> in 15 years. By historic, I mean of the magnitude of the original >> macintosh, or the PC XT, or Apple II, or Altair, or C64, and others. >> These truly changed the face of computing, unlike the iMac. > >Puuhlease! (Is Roger Rabbit still around?) > >What was historic about the Mac? It was a cheaper, better Lisa. A mere >evolutionary improvement over another Apple product (which was just the >commercializtion of one of PARC's concepts). > >The Apple ][ was just an incremental improvement over the Apple 1. > >The Altair was a small incremental improvement over the Mark-8, Scelbi, >etc. > >The C64 was cheap. And the PC (not the PC-XT) was just IBM's badge on a >dull box. > >This should teach you two things: don't underestimate small incremental >improvements and/or "panache", and don't be a revolutionary (nobody will >remember you). > >-- Doug > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 5 months

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Elf99 - rebirth of a classic

by dogas＠leading.net

Ethan. Please sign me up for one. Thanks - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net It may be interesting to deliver this in a some-assembly-required fashion similar to the kits of past.... They're are new generations of people that missed that era of soder-blazing joy.

27 years, 5 months

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NEC Multisync

by dburrows＠netpath.net

15.5kHz to 35 kHz automatically 56 to 62 Hz vertical manually, non-interlace Compatible with IBM Professional Graphics Adapter,EGA, CGA and other IBM compatible graphics adapters. Max Horiz. 800 dots and Max Vert 560 lines. TTL and Analog inputs. Analog mode has an unlimited palette of colors. Text switch selects choice of 7 colors of text. 14 inch diagonal with 13 inch viewing area. I tried to summarize for simplicity and time. Let me know if you need more. I used the one I had for many years and it was very reliable. Dan -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, November 09, 1998 7:49 PM Subject: Re: NEC Multisync Yes, what modes does the manual say it can do? > >It is one of the first Multisync monitors made. EGA I may still have the >docs on the on I bought new when they came out if there is anything in >particular you want to know about it. >Dan Burrows >dburrows(a)netpath.net > >-----Original Message----- >From: Max Eskin <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers ><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Date: Monday, November 09, 1998 6:34 PM >Subject: NEC Multisync > > >I saw an NEC Multisync in a thrift shop today. Looks like a nice >monitor, can do TTL and analog inputs. Could someone tell me what >exactly are the modes that it does? Also, are there any monitors like >this that can also take VGA inputs in addition? > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 5 months

1
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HP desktop 125

by cdrmool＠interlog.com

27 years, 5 months

1
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Sun mouse pad Re: need some parts

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 9, 11:36, Grant Mitchell wrote: > Subject: Re: Sun mouse pad Re: need some parts > > A friend at a placed I used to work showed me a postscript file > he had downloaded from somewhere for printing your own > optical mouse mats for a Sun (his had a bad scratch accross > it). As a temporary stopgap it _might_ work (need a colour printer > though!). No you don't -- just a print that is red/IR-absorbent (the two LEDs in optical mice are IR and red). We've used laser-printed sheets as an expediency measure a few times. There's no fancy pattern, either, it's just horizontal and vertical lines in a regular grid. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 5 months

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Elf99 - rebirth of a classic

by KFergason＠aol.com

I would be interested in the boards. The Elf 2 got me interested in computing, even though I never had one. I devoured that 1978 edition of Popular Electronics projects. It finally fell apart, but I think I still have some of the pieces of it. Kelly

27 years, 5 months

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Elf99 - rebirth of a classic

by franke＠sbs.de

> I have been in discussion with some folks about 1802's and the possibility > of producing a modern PCB for the Popular Electronicss Elf design. Hans > Franke seems to think that there would be some interest in Germany for > a few units, enough to make me consider burning a board. I realy would like to play with such a beast :) > I would be > curious to hear what other list members though about price, features, etc. > The good news is that Harris still makes the 1802 for less than $10, and > the TIL311 displays that the Elf calls for are available for less than $10 > each, used. > How authentic should a modern Elf be? Try to use 1822/2101 RAM or use > cheaper 6264 SRAM chips? Add space for an optional 1861 video chip, > a-la the fourth part of the orginal Elf article? Add space for a 1854 > UART? Add an I/O port? Add nothing to the Quest PCB layout? Remove > nothing? (There was a socket for a 16-pin PROM and room for onboard 7805 > regulator as well as optional memory battery backup). To add my opinion, I would just go for the minimal design, with spare for all parts, maybe with a spare for the video, althroug I think this one is no longer available, and we would need more than just the chip. Futher I would add a two sockets for two to 32 K RAM/EPROM and some logic to mirror the EPROM to address 0 after reset (selectable per switch). Eventualy also spares for additional 1852s. > Another question, perhaps more on topic - would this count as a classic? > It could be authentic as far as operation is concerned (toggle switches > and 256 bytes of accessible RAM), but it would still be on a modern > board, made recently. In short, does form or function denote "classic"? It's not a classic, but rather a replica. And in difference of Mercedes SSK look alikes on FORD or GM chasis the main parts (CPU, RAM, Display) would be genuine. Servus hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 5 months

2
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Light pen?? (sort of on/sort of off-topic)

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Hi! I have an old Tandy 1000 (no suffix) that has a port on the back that looks like a serial port, but is plastic, and says "light pen" (I know it's not a serial port). I also have a lightpen/barcode scanner thing (like the kind they use in RadioShack on the cash registers). Will this work with the Tandy? If it won't: Is there any type of barcode reader software that I can download somewhere? (this is the off-topic part) It does not have to run on the Tandy. ThAnX, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

27 years, 5 months

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NEC Multisync

by dburrows＠netpath.net

It is one of the first Multisync monitors made. EGA I may still have the docs on the on I bought new when they came out if there is anything in particular you want to know about it. Dan Burrows dburrows(a)netpath.net -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, November 09, 1998 6:34 PM Subject: NEC Multisync I saw an NEC Multisync in a thrift shop today. Looks like a nice monitor, can do TTL and analog inputs. Could someone tell me what exactly are the modes that it does? Also, are there any monitors like this that can also take VGA inputs in addition? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 5 months

3
2
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Docs posted today

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: Here's today's postings to http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ - data sheet: 6545-1 CRTC - R6500 Programming Manual, part 1 Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 5 months

1
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NEC Multisync

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Yes, what modes does the manual say it can do? > >It is one of the first Multisync monitors made. EGA I may still have the >docs on the on I bought new when they came out if there is anything in >particular you want to know about it. >Dan Burrows >dburrows(a)netpath.net > >-----Original Message----- >From: Max Eskin <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers ><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >Date: Monday, November 09, 1998 6:34 PM >Subject: NEC Multisync > > >I saw an NEC Multisync in a thrift shop today. Looks like a nice >monitor, can do TTL and analog inputs. Could someone tell me what >exactly are the modes that it does? Also, are there any monitors like >this that can also take VGA inputs in addition? > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 5 months

1
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NEC Multisync

by paulk＠microsoft.com

> I seem to recall that the Multisync may actually sync to 15kHz (NTSC). > Can > anyone say yea/nea on this? Older ones do. I know the 2D does, for instance -- I have used one on an Apple //gs with a hacked-up adapter. However, I don't think modern ones, 4- and 5- series, will sync down that far. > Kai Paul Kearns paulk(a)microsoft.com

27 years, 5 months

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PCJr: The LEAST collectible machine? (Was: FA: Apple Lis

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Not to change the subject but has anybody ever seen the light pen for the PCJr? I've read in the PCJr literature that it was supposed to be available but haven't known of anybody having seen or used one. Thanks, Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: PCJr: The LEAST collectible machine? (Was: FA: Apple Lisa an Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 11/9/98 4:51 PM > Anyone looking for a color display for a PCjr before it goes on ebay? I've posted > it before for the $35 I bought it for but either everyone has one, no one needs > one, or they think it's $34 too much for them <G> Perhaps you'd like to trade the monitor without PCJr for a PCJr without monitor? -- Fred Cisin cisin(a)xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com 2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Nov09.165152.1767.76489; Mon, 09 Nov 1998 16:51:52 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id NAA18454; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:49:26 -0800 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id NAA12276 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:49:21 -0800 Received: from lanshark.lanminds.com (lanshark-fas1.lanminds.com [208.25.68.5]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id NAA25 408 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:49:20 -0800 Received: from lana (lana [140.174.208.211]) by lanshark.lanminds.com (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA06004 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:49:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <Pine.SOL.3.91.981109134602.3483C-100000@lana> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:49:19 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: PCJr: The LEAST collectible machine? (Was: FA: Apple Lisa and App In-Reply-To: <363B93B9.2231901B(a)bigfoot.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: cisin@lana X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

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iMac AddOn (was: Future Collectibles)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

That's true here as well. This iMac-flavored superdrive may end up being a nice collector's item. Of course, since the iMac has little historical significance, I doubt it will be remembered any better than many other machines. It seems hard for me to imagine the iMac or any other technologically vanilla modern computer will ever end up in a museum. Then again, I probably haven't lived long enough :) >Apple (or to be correct all Apple dealers) in Germany are >ofering th iMac in some kind of bundle with a Superdrive >external USB disk drive, able to read/reite 1.44M and 120M >disks. I don't think there will ever be an included floppy, >maybe a CD-RW or similar, but no floppy. > >Gruss >hasn > >-- >Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut >HRK ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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NEC Multisync

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I saw an NEC Multisync in a thrift shop today. Looks like a nice monitor, can do TTL and analog inputs. Could someone tell me what exactly are the modes that it does? Also, are there any monitors like this that can also take VGA inputs in addition? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Board identification & Console panel

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Just got a number of HP and Dec boards in and a console panel >of a DECDATASYSTEM 570, missing the key and one turnknob The key is an ACE XX2247, just like all the other DEC consoles of the era, and any quarter-inch setscrew-type knob will replace the missing one. >(what's this machine anyway???) The "DECDATASYSTEM 570" is a PDP-11/70 packaged in a dual-wide highboy cabinet, blue trim. >Unfortunately the frame to mount it in a rack is missing. Anybody >have a spare one left over? The "frame to mount it in a rack" is the 11/70 CPU chassis, weighing a few hundred pounds without the power supply :-). >There were also 2 boards I cannot place, one is an L0016 board, 64K Memory control for a VAX 11/750. >the other one is marked 'Unibus Serial Console'. Does it have a M-number on the handle? -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

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XPOST: Adoptables and fairly cheapo machines available - NC

by rhblake＠bigfoot.com

This is a new post on the Obsolete Computer Helpline that I thought someone may have an interest in. Write to Mike Smith, not me, on these items. ------------------------------ Michael M. Smith <snuggemsnospam(a)nospam.bearwolf.com> Cary, NC USA - Tuesday, November 10, 1998 at 10:44:04 (Remove the nospams when you reply) It's time to clean house. I have numerous machines that need to find homes, for reasonable prices. How reasonable? Make an offer. Not interested in making any money off these, as most were given to me or purchased for a small fee that I've gotten my money's worth out of >from tinkering. 1. A TI-99/4A computer with speech synth, power adapter, RF adapter, cassette program recorder with cables, many software packages with most in original boxes (The software, not the machine) Its the black and chrome model, and everything works perfectly. Oh, and it has the joysticks with it too. Not sure how well they work. 2. Kaypro 1 luggable. Powers up and tries to boot, but no system disk available. See TRS-80 entry, its disks might work. 3. Kaypro 4 luggable. Same as above. 4. Atari 5200 game system. Trackball controller, Atari 2600 adapter, three 5200 joysticks, one 2600-compatible joystick, several cartridges. Trackball and joysticks could use some cleaning, can't get them all to work right. 5. TRS-80 Model 4. Manuals, disks, extra programming books, even a copy of Zaxxon...Looks awful in b&w though. The B drive is a little flaky, might need cleaning, might need more. It has TRS-DOS and CP/M 2.2 so these disks might work with the Kaypros mentioned above. 6. Atari 800XL with two 1050 disk drives, the 410 tape recorder, and a "Big Blue" thermal roll printer. Several manuals and disks and cartridges. Not in the best of shape, is quite dirty. One of the 1050 drives is in its original packaging. Not sure if this works. Interested adopters need to be in the RTP area of North Carolina (Raleigh, Durham, Chapel-Hill) as I am not willing to ship these items. Any questions regarding specific cartridges may be addressed to me. Thanks, and help me get rid of this clutter! Some really interesting items for a computer museum. I also have an IBM PS/2 model 35sx with 16MB of RAM and a 420MB IDE hard drive (It's an IDE and ISA model) that I might let out for adoption too, but will have to ask $30 to recoup the cost of the RAM and the harddrive I put in it. Thanks again! Mike

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FA: Apple Lisa and Apple IIC LCD Display

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

at the risk of being a smartass, id think that some of the people here would've appreciated an offer on this list first rather than going to ebay and then announcing it to us all.. that would have been an even better opportunity. In a message dated 11/1/98 4:23:33 PM US Eastern Standard Time, gmast(a)polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu writes: > I think this system will go for a good price. It will sell regardless. > If this post offends anyone, I apologize but I know some people here > might want one of these for their collection and this might be a good > opportunity.

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Another resource for older systems

by dburrows＠netpath.net

I stumbled on this site a while back and a few on the list may be interested. Postings of want to buy and sell of "classic" type systems. I have not had any response from the post I put there several months back - Looking for DEC equipment but others may have better luck. http://www.xs4all.nl/~rimmer/guest.htm Dan Burrows dburrows(a)netpath.net

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Board identification & Console panel

by wanderer＠bos.nl

Hello All, Just got a number of HP and Dec boards in and a console panel of a DECDATASYSTEM 570, missing the key and one turnknob (what's this machine anyway???) Unfortunately the frame to mount it in a rack is missing. Anybody have a spare one left over? There were also 2 boards I cannot place, one is an L0016 board, the other one is marked 'Unibus Serial Console'. Does this card belong to the console panel mentioned earlier? Thanks, Ed -- The Wanderer | Geloof nooit een politicus! wanderer(a)bos.nl | Europarlementariers: http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer | zakkenvullers en dumpplaats voor Unix Lives! windows95 is rommel! | mislukte politici. '96 GSXR 1100R | See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of Gates!

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Collectable PCs

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 11/9/98 8:37:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, Marty(a)itgonline.com writes: << Does your Columbia list it as having been made in Columbia, Maryland? I believe their early pc's were made in Columbia, Maryland, later they moved to Florida. >> I will look. I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. i will let you know when I find out. Paxton

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Saved Altair 4K BASIC

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> Curious what the copyright situation on BASIC (or related >> products) is? Certainly Gate's hasn't released it into >> public domain. >No, and he got pretty upset about people redistributing it without >authorization. But that was a few years ago; maybe he's mellowed out >by now. :-) It may depend on whether he thinks he's out of his "Bitter financial suffering" phase or not. To quote Calvin N. Moores, BYTE 1976:13 p.22.: Bill Gates, in his "Open Letter to Hobbyists" mentioned earlier, tells of his sad experience. According to Bill, he and two associates produced the Altair BASIC, investing three man years and burning up $40,000 in computer time. It was to be sold on commision through MITS for use with Altair computers. Gates now finds that many of the "users" he talks to praise his BASIC very highly, but few of them can admit they bought the copy they use. He is bitter, and says that the return for his group was less than $2 an hour for the great amount of time they put into the programming, debugging, and documentation required to make a first class package. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

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Deja Vu Again (was Re: Hayes S100 modem

by franke＠sbs.de

>> Anybody care to hazard guesses at what products are actually being >> manufactured now, that you'd want to have in your classic computer >> collection ten years from now? > Manufactured now? It's not like each year produces collectibles, but here > are some current and recent collectibles that you'll wish you had bought: > 4) clear pilot Huh ? never heared of. Gruss Hans (And add the REX) -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

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Acorn BBC Micros

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

> >> Of course few people exploit teletext to its full. It's sent as ASCII >> data (with in-line attribute characters for setting colours, etc) in the >> vertical blanking interval. This means that it's possible to connect a >> teletext decoder chip up to a computer, store/analyse/print the info, >> etc. But few people have tried that. There was a teletext decoder box for >> the BBC micro (to tie in the start of this thread), and there were even >> plans to distribute BASIC programs for that machine on some teletext pages. Hmm, I have the teletext decoder for the BBC somewhere, but no software to run it. I expect it's in working order (the ROMs were missing when I got it, but I managed to create copies from another box). Interestingly, we used to get teletext sent over the same network that connected all the computer equipment when I was at university - instead of logging in to the computer network you could use a standard comms program / terminal emulator to connect to the teletext system. It got turned off though whilst I was there - I heard a rumour that it was a commercial service for which the university were supposed to pay, but they had been using it for years before they found out! :) >> To keep this on the topic of the thread, I *am* interested in getting a >>BBC. >> I guess I'd need a PAL monitor and a 220-volt, 50-hz power supply to run it I used to know someone with a US spec BBC; I seem to remember that the power supply was different (the whole layout was slightly different inside) but would switch to UK mains rates. I also think that there was a jumper (or more than one) on the system board that would at least change scan rates for the video connectors, but not the modulator. My memory's really fuzzy on this one, I could probably contact the guy who had the machine if you really need it, but BBC's were *very* flexible in what they could do and what could be modified easily. I missed the original post, but if it was a UK reader and they just wanted a BBC machine then they'd be better off contacting a few local schools, who are bound to have a few lurking around unused in cupboards. cheers Jules >

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OT: General power supply question

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Time for an Electronics for Dummies question... If I have a center negative power supply (the diagram shows that the negative is in the center of the connector) does that mean the center of the connector on the device to be powered should be connected to the ground plane? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 11/02/98]

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apple software

by CharlesII＠nwonline.net

Dose anyone know where I can find Apple IIe software on the web?

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Collectibles for the future

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I couldn't get a Lisa for under $2000 They're going for that much now? I remember a few years back when Sun Remarketing was selling them for a few hundred dollars... > but I could find a D-machine for less than a tenth >of that. >Fortunately, I don't care about machines being 'collectable'. I just like >interesting machines to repair and investigate. Despite the worries that many people here have of all interesting computers getting priced into the stratosphere, I think there will always be interesting and historically significant computers that will be within easy [financial] reach (or a dumpster dive.) Tim.

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iMac AddOn (was: Future Collectibles)

by franke＠sbs.de

>>> Yes the iMac will be collectable because it is taking a lot of new >>> people into the land of computerdom. It is a revolutionary device, the >> Apple used that trick before. It was called the Macintosh. > I think the parallel is with the Lisa. The Lisa had expansion slots. > iMac owners will bitch about the > lack of floppy, so Apple will make an iMac 2 with built-in floppy drive > and offer a free upgrade to existing iMac owners... and a new collectible > is born. Apple (or to be correct all Apple dealers) in Germany are ofering th iMac in some kind of bundle with a Superdrive external USB disk drive, able to read/reite 1.44M and 120M disks. I don't think there will ever be an included floppy, maybe a CD-RW or similar, but no floppy. Gruss hasn -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

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Future Collectables

by franke＠sbs.de

> Good day all, I have been following this thread and would like to add > another item from the late 70's. Have any of you heard of the Digital Group > computers? I have a few examples of this line which was developed as a true > hobbyst machine. I know its shortcommings just like many of the other early > machines. I also can tell some rather amusing stories about this machine. > Bill Risch PLEASE do so - I just aquired a Digital Group Z80 at VCF this year (still many thanks, Chuck) and I'm eager to get more information. Gruss hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

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Altair Speculation

by franke＠sbs.de

>> The latest victim paid $4060 for a mere "turnkey" (no blinkenlights): >> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=39333791 > If you take a look at the bidding, you will see only four people bid on it, > with two of them having zero feedback ratings. Sounds like the best > advertising strategy for ebay is to simply say something is *very* rare. Maybe, but zero feedback isn't realy a thing to rate - I did a lot of eBay transactions within the last year (>20) and have still a feedback of Zero - I don't care. Gruss hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

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Future Collectables

by franke＠sbs.de

> Any collector will tell you that a lot depends on rareity. An item produced in > the millions is less valuable than one produced in the thousands. Prototypes > of popular machines will be very valuable. Machines that bombed in the market > will be valuable. Accessories and documentation that disapears readilly will > be valuable. Just depending. Even #1 all time sales items can be more valuabel than a lot rarer and more interesting speciemen of the same time - just think about the VW (Beatle), a car built in more units than almost any other car in the world, build over a timeline longer than most oter car (especialy longer than all other mass market car) but he outclasses all compareable cars when it comes to the $$$ peaople are ready to pay to get one. A bit like the APPLE II - maybe in 10 years they will be like a Kaefer. Or take the Altair a computer clearly never realy too be considered rare but the prices just outrun any other old computer (only the Apple 1 will perform higher, but it is also a lot more rare). > Yes the iMac will be collectable because it is taking a lot of new people into > the land of computerdom. It is a revolutionary device, the thought of > unpacking it from the box, plugging it in and going to work is very attractive > to new computer users. The only new thing is a brute marketing. No new idea at all. Wasn't the Mac itself the same thing ? And unpack'n'go is not new at all. Even in the x86-PC world a lot of ready to use machines are available. Nobody is willing to try something real new (Or do I just see it to pesimistic?). (OT: I guess the usual iMac owner would also like to drive a new beatle :) > How many computers of today will survive when crashes > become totally unacceptable. iMac still crashes like any other Mac ... > It will be 20 years though, before it gains value > as a collectable. Any limited edition iMac that Apple may make will be > collectable. This is going to be the first computer for millions of people. Possible - but still the PC is leading also here. For every new iMac first time computer user a dozend of PC ones grew up. I just remember having heard all this once upon a past timeline... Gruss H. (OT2: I belive Apple had the strange luck to define three times a new world: - the Apple II as a modular expandable all in one Computer, - the Mac as ready to use consumer GUI system, - and the Newton as first usable and real 'pad' orientated pen device. And they did screw it up all tree times. - killed the II with every way they could - avoided at any cost placing the Mac als general consumer product - and stoped the Newton just when it was finaly ready to use. eventualy this will make all Apple products it on topic again) -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

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487 and Marketing Breakthroughs (was Re: 486DX/SX (was:

by Marty＠itgonline.com

When customers used to ask me to explain the difference between a SX and DX processor, I'd give the standard spiel (386SX is basically a souped up 286 with same data path using 32 bit addressing, 486SX is a coprocessor neutered DX) then tell them the easy way to remember is that DX stands for DELUXE, SX stands for SUCKS. Well, it works for me..... Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: 487 and Marketing Breakthroughs (was Re: 486DX/SX (was: Re: Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 11/7/98 1:07 AM "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com> wrote: > As for a Math CoPro for the 486, I'm not sure I ever saw a 487 chip, but I > always figured that they took the chips that didn't cut it as a normal > processor but had a good Math CoPro, and sold them as 487's. No. The 487 is a *fully* functional 486DX, and it has to be, because when you plug it into a 487 socket it disables your 486SX completely and takes over. The 487 is NOT a "math coprocessor". It's a "Marketing Breakthrough" (*), or so they had hoped. The made the pinouts of the 486 and 487 slightly different, so that you couldn't take out your old 486SX and simply install the 487 in its place, which would leave you with a spare 486SX to give to a friend, i.e., less sales of new chips for Intel. Part of the reason it didn't work out in practice is that 486DX chips were generally available for less money than the expensive retail-box 487. Cheers, Eric (*) If you're not familiar with the concept of a Marketing Breakthrough, see this advertisement which appeared in newspapers nationally a few years ago: http://www.milk.com/wall-o-shame/dish.html Note that every statement in the advertisement is literally true; they even utilize italics to emphasize the fact that the product is nothing special. I didn't buy their antenna, but I offered to pay them up to $20 for a large poster of the advertisement. Unfortunately they never replied. ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists5.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Nov07.010745.1767.76113; Sat, 07 Nov 1998 01:07:45 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id WAA13734; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:05:39 -0800 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id WAA44546 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:04:11 -0800 Received: from brouhaha.com (ruckus.brouhaha.com [209.185.79.17]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with SMTP id WAA283 32 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:04:11 -0800 Received: (qmail 517 invoked by uid 342); 7 Nov 1998 06:04:21 -0000 Message-Id: <19981107060421.516.qmail(a)brouhaha.com> Date: 7 Nov 1998 06:04:21 -0000 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: 487 and Marketing Breakthroughs (was Re: 486DX/SX (was: Re: Classic != IBM AT)) In-Reply-To: <v0401170bb2696bd1e812(a)[192.168.1.2]> (healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com) References: <v0401170bb2696bd1e812(a)[192.168.1.2]> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

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Cauzin

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 10:39 AM 11/7/98 -0500, cswiger wrote: > >'Byte's early years were fun for hardware hackers - I wonder if >anybody actually got their 'barcode' software publishing scheme >to work. They had a few issues with pages of barcodes you were >supposedly able to read in with a wand. It's spelled "Cauzin". Back in 1996 I e-bumped into Dick Balaska <dick(a)buckosoft.com> <http://www.buckosoft.com/~dick/resume.html>, one of the engineers who worked at Cauzin. Below are several messages from earlier in 1998 about this topic, and a related technology. Anyone want to make a jillion dollars? Re-typing URLs is a pain. OCR is a pain and impractical for small bits of text. Reciting addresses is a pain. I think we need a pen- or credit-card-sized device that can read barcodes. While I'm reading a magazine, I see a URL I want to visit later. I scan the barcode. Later, I transmit my pen's contents to my PC, maybe via IrDA. It's scalable from give-away keychains to smarter devices, it's embeddable. Make a PostScript font with the barcode. Allow one-to- one ASCII-to-barcode, upsell software to checksum it or auto-inject barcode text in any app's documents. Make a modem-like variation that can emit a few hundred bytes of info while held to the mouthpiece of a phone, as well as receive a few hundred bytes when held to the earpiece. Presto, a way to transmit your name and address to someone else. Sell the $100 thermal-label-printer version to corporate America. - John >To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu >From: John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> >Subject: Re: [getting old punched cards read] > >Here's another twist in the archive problem, related to our previous >discussion: <http://www.paperdisk.com/> makes software that prints >data in a highly compressed form on paper. It looks like they're >getting 2 to 4 megs of data per 8.5x11 page, printed with a laser >printer, and retrievable with a scanner. > >If tapes and CDs aren't reliable, perhaps paper is better. (Search >www.dejanews.com for "Dead Media Working Note paperdisk" to see a >longer article about this.) However, I'd say that laser-printed >output has its own archival problems related to the properties of >toner plastic, in that it can re-melt or stick to adjacent pages, >and that it's sensitive to vapors from out-gassing plastics >such as those in binders. > >Cauzin SoftStrips for the 90s and beyond! I have some friends who once >worked for a Wisconsin company that had a similar gizmo that worked with >a record-player-like device. > >- John >Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm> > Below is a description of the "paper floppy disk" as given by an old friend of mine, Dennis Adams <DAdams(a)etcconnect.com>, who once worked on this technology. - John The "Paper Floppy Disk" Newslog International (aka Lab1) developed technology for recording up to 30-50K of data on a printed piece of cardstock approximately 6" x 4". The data was recorded with error detection and correction information (Reed-Soloman, I believe), as well as redundant groups, so it could withstand misprints, marks, holes, and other flaws. This was all pre-CD, and the cost was very cheap. One of the names for them was TDB's for Transportable Databases. They were intended for software distribution, database updates, games on the back of cereal boxes, etc. Each track was a portion of a circle (about 1/10 of the circumference). The reader had a large (approx. 14") spinning wheel, and supported variable track pitch and data bits per inch (so different quality paper and printing processes could be supported), and could track media that was not cut square by skewing the tray that held the media (since there was no physical or optical "center" on the media -- it had a virtual movable "hole" to spin on). It used a Z80 microprocessor (running extremely tweaked assembly language by Al Jewer) and interfaced to a computer via "high-speed" RS-232 (9600 bps). I did demo software on a variety of hosts, including the Storm operating system (multi-user CP/M OS by Ron Fowler, also the author of the popular MEX communications software), Commodore 64, and IBM-PC XT. We had a Coleco Adam computer that we briefly considered writing something for, but it never stayed running long enough to evaluate. We did a multi-month trial of a large database update for a large company based in Moline. We sent out three months of updates to a 13M database. Each update was a half-dozen or so cards that could be scanned in any order and then the update was applied to the database. This was run at three dealerships that could retrieve up-to-date database information much faster than their microfiche system which was always out-of-date. It also displayed additional textual information that was on other microfiche or books and not usually referenced. This was circa 1985, and was quite impressive to the people who used it. So much so that the actual media technology took a back seat to the database system itself (an interesting lesson to be learned there). Newslog / Lab1 ran out of money before the technology could be completely finished and sold or marketed. Not that they didn't try. I learned a lot about "demos" and "demospeak" while I worked there. I still have some media around, but alas no reader. I'm willing to bet it could be read by a modern high-res scanner. An energetic soul could probably even write a reader emulator that fed the bits that it peeled radially from the high-res scan into the actual Z80 reader code to decode it. The best anecdote I recall regarding the technology was in the "camera" software that generated the film original used for duplication: the base unit of measurement was derived from the bits-per-track and camera wheel speed and other factors I've forgotten. All of the internal calculations were based on this "tick", which varied in actual length, but was approximately 1mS. The camera system's author was Bill Whitford, and the unit of measurement henceforth became known as a "willisecond." Bill's code ran on a much larger processor with a lot of memory (I think it might have been a 4Mhz Z80 with 64K of memory), so he development in C.

27 years, 5 months

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Collectable PCs

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Does your Columbia list it as having been made in Columbia, Maryland? I believe their early pc's were made in Columbia, Maryland, later they moved to Florida. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Collectable PCs Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 11/8/98 5:58 PM Earlier there was a discussion of what PC stuff might be collectable and valuable. The other day I ran across an original Columbia PC. This one is a good collectable. It was as it came from the factory with the original Floppy and Hard drive. It also had the original keyboard with it. It was very clean and had not been abused. It worked. In my 1983 Bytes they were asking $5000 for it. I paid $6 at goodwill with the intention of putting it on ebay just to see what it will bring. I am retireing from collecting but if I were going top sit on a piece of equipment this would be a good example. My reasons in order of priority: 1) first popular clone, 2) all the original -parts (including screws), 3) Clean with no scratches, the type on the keyboard showed no wear, 4) Works (not essential - i bought it without testing it - $6 is not a great gamble), 5) Rareity - Most of these go directly to scrap and have for years. However it will be many more years before it is truly valuable, but I bet it will be! Paxton ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Nov08.175845.1767.76263; Sun, 08 Nov 1998 17:58:48 -0500 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id OAA15250; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:56:34 -0800 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id OAA52802 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:56:25 -0800 Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id OAA12 625 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:56:24 -0800 Received: from Innfogra(a)aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id JYRTa02301 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 17:56:07 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <eee98475.36462187(a)aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 17:56:07 EST Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Innfogra(a)aol.com To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Collectable PCs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 5 months

1
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Amiga 2500 Manual??

by danjo＠xnet.com

Any one have a Amiga 2500 Manual? My Sis needs it. She has Workbench 1.3??? Any one know either online sources or hardcopy?? Now she is talking about AREX??? I hate the Telephone 8-) BC

27 years, 5 months

4
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OT: General power supply question

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 03:44 AM 11/9/98 -0800, you wrote: > >Time for an Electronics for Dummies question... > >If I have a center negative power supply (the diagram shows that the >negative is in the center of the connector) does that mean the center of >the connector on the device to be powered should be connected to the >ground plane? > Not necessarialy. It could be grounded or it could be floating. But as long as the connector supplies power and the return path (two wires supplying + and -), you should be able too leave it disconnected from ground with no problem. Circuits are grounded for two reasons; (1) to provide a power return path through the chassis and saving the cost of a wire or (2) for safety reasons. Reason 1 is a poor practice since chassis grounds aren't very reliable and cause galvanic corrosion. Reason 2 is generally only required in high voltage (> 100 Volts) crcuits. Joe

27 years, 5 months

1
0
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Sun mouse pad Re: need some parts

by grant＠anachronism.sol.co.uk

A friend at a placed I used to work showed me a postscript file he had downloaded from somewhere for printing your own optical mouse mats for a Sun (his had a bad scratch accross it). As a temporary stopgap it _might_ work (need a colour printer though!). Dunno where he downloaded from though, but contact your friendly neighbourhood seaqrch engine!

27 years, 5 months

2
1
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Altair Speculation

by franke＠sbs.de

>> It looks like a bunch of Altairs are coming on the market to feed the >> recent speculator frenzy. A couple of New Mexicans are dumping their >> Altairs. It looks like one was a Pertec employee, and the other is a >> surplus dealer who bought out a bunch of Altair stuff in 1984. >> The latest victim paid $4060 for a mere "turnkey" (no blinkenlights): >> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=39333791 USD 4600 ? Geee - you're all crazy Americanos. > I especially like how he gives the TRS-80 all the credit for destroying > the Altair. Someone take the blinders off this guy. Maybe around his frieds the TRS realy took over - just remember how narrow some peoples view is. Gruss hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 5 months

1
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apple //c

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

anybody want one? complete, but no power supply and not tested. $5 or something around that.

27 years, 5 months

2
1
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VERY OT REQUEST: Need to know power supply specs for Acer Prisa 310S scanner

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

I need to know what the specs are for an Acer Prisa 310S scanner power supply. I know its 15VDC at 1A, but is it center negative or positive? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 11/02/98]

27 years, 5 months

1
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SCSI questions

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>> 1) Is the SCSI drive (a 170 MB Toshiba) toast? Can it be fixed? It *should* be OK; but it does depend on the drive. I've accidentally connected stuff up backwards once and no harm came of it. > >> 3) There's no separate SCSI setting under "drive type". Should I use "no >> drive", or set the parameters to something? I don't know about integrated controllers - depends on whether the controller has a BIOS to it or whether it's just dumb. Sounds like you've got a standard AT BIOS that supports IDE drives, in which case the SCSI controller's either completely dumb and you have to boot from an IDE drive, or (as with standard SCSI controllers) there's a seperate SCSI BIOS which needs some key-combination entered (such as CTRL-A on Adaptec cards) on boot up in order get into it and set up your SCSI devices. If you know who made the motherboard, you may be able to find info on the web somewhere... cheers Jules > >

27 years, 5 months

1
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Acorn BBC Micros

by franke＠sbs.de

>> Due a smaler coulour band signal. The slow colour change >> is a real pain for movies but the 50 vs 60 Hz isn't >> visible, althrugh when used with computers, both are >> just bad. > I definitely notice the 50Hz vs 60Hz difference on my computer. It is visible when using a still picture like a computer output. 60 Hz gives a more stable view, but on the other hand, the poor NTSC coulour signal just damages the view again, so again the result is bas - taking this and the lower resolution (less horizontal and vertical lines in NTSC) I'll prefer the flicker. THe best was still using PAL with 60 Hz - some homecomputers of the 80s could be programmed for that - less flicker and high resolution and biliant (or at least as briliant as a narow band colour signal can be) colours. > I might > not notice it with a TV signal, though - I've never watched PAL > television. (But I've watched 50Hz 'EuroDemos' on the TV.) EuroDemos ? Whats that ? >> This might not be true for the low price TV sets, but >> any TV I (or friends of mine) had within the last >> 10 years could syncronize 60 Hz b&w and all (but one >> tested in 1984) could also display NTSC signals. > Our current television (JVC model no. AV-27965, manufactured in 1995) will > definitely _not_ synch to 50Hz. This annoyed me. All of our old > tube-based monstrosities are perfectly happy with 50Hz. > But north American televisions are primitive relative to European ones. I > would _really_ like it if they'd put SCART connectors on the sets over > here! The funny thing is that Japaneese companies have also stron sales in Europe - and use the same designs in Europe and the US ... But as always, they add only as many features as the 'local' companies offer. Gruss Hans I used an SONY TV for the ATARI ST, 10 years ago. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 5 months

2
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Future Collectables

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 11/8/98 3:45:59 AM Pacific Standard Time, yowza(a)yowza.com writes: << When desktops disappear, and only notebooks survive, then the first laptops will be very collectible. If pen-based computing continues to gain ground, then the first pen-based machines will be nice to have. If wireless communications becomes commonplace.... If voice recognition replaces the keyboard.... There are lots of future collectibles out there. >> Doug is right. Look for the first developers of an idea. Limited production runs of a popular item. Any collector will tell you that a lot depends on rareity. An item produced in the millions is less valuable than one produced in the thousands. Prototypes of popular machines will be very valuable. Machines that bombed in the market will be valuable. Accessories and documentation that disapears readilly will be valuable. Hm, how about masks of 386, 486, 586 chips.... from the manufacture process. Very rare and often beautiful. Most companies desroy them. Test runs of a product that didn't make it to market (anyone remember the Biin machine. I doubt there is a single example of that one left.) The Gold plated Cyrix Chips. Most will go to scrap for the gold content. Beauty has little value untill much later. Add art and design to your collectors criteria. Some of the speciallized gear to make systems work. Ethernet repeaters, thick cable, some of the first fiber optic gear, routersand other peripherals. Anything that helps popularize or develop new concepts and revolutionary equipment changes. Yes the iMac will be collectable because it is taking a lot of new people into the land of computerdom. It is a revolutionary device, the thought of unpacking it from the box, plugging it in and going to work is very attractive to new computer users. How many computers of today will survive when crashes become totally unacceptable. It will be 20 years though, before it gains value as a collectable. Any limited edition iMac that Apple may make will be collectable. This is going to be the first computer for millions of people. Follow important people in the field. Many of the computers Steven Jobs had a hand in are collectable. I bet there will be more. Paxton

27 years, 5 months

6
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PCjr with no disk drive?

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 01:42 AM 10/30/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > >> As far as I know it was in the ROM on the motherboard. > >If you turn the machine on with no disk in the drive and no cartridge in >either slot, you get ROM BASIC. > >There is also a more advanced BASIC on a cartridge. If you turn the >machine on with the BASIC cartridge in a slot, you get cartridge BASIC. > >This is not a guess. This is how my PCjr behaves. That's my understanding. There are three levels of BASIC for the Jr. Level 1 is the ROM BASIC, level 2 is the disk BASIC and level 3 is the cartridge BASIC. I was surprised that the cartridge BASIC was the most complete but that's what the manual says. Joe

27 years, 5 months

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PCjr with no disk drive?

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 09:08 AM 10/29/98 -0800, Sam said: >The PCjr had BASIC in ROM and didn't require a floppy to boot. Was the BASIC in a plug in cartridge and optional? Joe

27 years, 5 months

6
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Future Collectables - Mac, iMac & Atari comments

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 11/8/98 3:06:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, dastar(a)ncal.verio.com writes: << > Yes the iMac will be collectable because it is taking a lot of new > people into the land of computerdom. It is a revolutionary device, the > thought of unpacking it from the box, plugging it in and going to work > is very attractive to new computer users. Apple used that trick before. It was called the Macintosh. >> True, the Macintosh was a revolutionary concept and the 128K original is now a collectable. Many people bought Macs as their first computer. This generates popularity, time generates nostalgia. E-mail is pushing many computerphobic people into needing to use a computer. This is a new step in the revolution which is going to bring a great majority of people into the computer revolution. Apple & Jobs recognized the movement and, yes, used the trick again. This is generating huge sales for Apple and in 20 years down the road, nostalgia. Lets look at a simplistic history of the Mac collectables. The hottest of the predicessors is the Xerox Alto followed by the Xerox Stars the 8010 (limited production, very collectable) and 6085 (pretty, beginning to be a collectable). All of the Lisas are collectable as are any parts, documentation and software. The 128K original Mac is collectable as are parts, documentation, software and the original boxes. I suspect that early 512K Macs are growing in collectability. Right now Mac+s are a glut on the market. Early serial numbers, originals and limited editions will be valuable in the future. The production runs on the Mac + were huge. Untill the glut disappears prices will be depressed. Now is the time to buy parts machines. I doubt the Mac+ will ever be a great collectable, there are just too many of them. Many people will want one for nostalgia reasons only. Maybe in 50 years or so they will be valuable. I don't know the later Macs. Some I am sure are and will be collectables. The iMac will be a collectable because many will use it as their first computer. Most will move on to newer machines. Some of the originals wioll go ionto the closet when people upgrade. Most will go to the used market. When a new generation of power (64 bit machines) becomes availiable most imacs will go to scrap. This will be the bottom of the market. This will be the best time for the true collectors to buy parts, however most won't recognize it. As they become scarce they become collectable and prices rise. At this time most documentation and software is hard to find. Original boxes nonexistant. The machines that are buried in the closet start showing up on the collectors market. Top prices are obtained by having the origional boxes, documentation and software. Collectors pay a premium for this. This was exhibited in the record sale price of the recent Atari 1200XL on e-bay. This unit was the only totally complete system I have seen on ebay. Original boxes! If you look at the completed sales of Ataris most sales of 1200XLs are in the $30 to $100 range for complete systems without documentation, SW and boxes. Paxton

27 years, 5 months

2
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Fw: Some DEC stuff forsale (Cheap)

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

Following posted in comp.sys.dec. If any Vax collectors are interested. Be a shame to see it as razor blades or landfill. It's times like this I wish Australia was a bit closer to the USA. -----Original Message----- From: kshuff <kshuff(a)fast.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec Date: Saturday, 7 November 1998 5:56 Subject: Some DEC stuff forsale (Cheap) > Cleaning out the basement for some much needed space and have some DEC stuff >I would like to get rid of, rather than the garbage man getting it. > > The following items are all in working order and the prices I've listed are >what I'd like to see, but I'm flexible and would welcome offers. Shipping is >extra... > > DEC VR290-DA 19" RGB color monitor asking $100 OBO > > VT1200 Mono X-term base, 4 meg ram asking $30 OBO > > HP 7475A Plotter, brand new color pens asking $45 OBO > > DataProducts SPG8050 Wide carridge color DMP asking $40 OBO > > (4) RA-72 1Gb 5 1/4" SDI drives asking $30 each OBO > > (1) SA-7x drive enclosure for above drives asking $20 OBO > > MicroVAX I, BA23, RX50, RD52, Ultrix v1.2 loaded asking $40 OBO > > TU-80 9-track tape drive, bare unit, no cabinet asking Best Offer > >All items located in Allentown, Pa > > > Keith S. Huff > > kshuff(a)fast.net > --------------- > > "One World, One Web, One Program"- Microsoft Promotional Ad > "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer"- Adolf Hitler > > >

27 years, 5 months

1
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Future Collectibles

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> >> Didn't that happen a while back with the first NeXT cubes? Previous >> situation where common sense by engineering was overruled by >> marketing to make things pretty rather than really practical. Another machine associated with Jobbs and overruled by marketing.... What are the odds? - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 5 months

1
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Future Collectables

by brisch＠uswest.net

Yes things were moving fast even then. > >This was late in the game. > >The Altair when first available had 4 cards for IO, the SIO-A (single >serial), 2SIO (2 6850 serial ports), PIO(parallel) and the infamous ACR. The Digital Group developed boards that were the equivalent. >At the time of the demo the ACR was available with usable software. Why >they chose TTY loading to this date is speculation. Keep in mind this was a group of sales types and maybe they didn't have everything with them. > >What Sudding did do was to make the 300baud (30CPS) ACR and the 300baud >(also 30cps) Kansas City standard look slow by pushing to 1500baud >so that loading at 150cps was doable. However the Sudding standard >never caught on as it was not tolerent of some problems (tape speed). >The Tarbell standard would give a higher data rate and was self clocking. > >So went the audio casette hardware wars. When it was reaching it's peak >most of us were looking at either real tape (saturation with block >replaceability), disks or disk like systems. Yes there was no question that disks were the way to go. > > >Allison > > >

27 years, 5 months

1
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Future Collectibles

by dogas＠leading.net

With the take off of digital cameras I would like to add the Canon Xapshot to this list...

27 years, 5 months

2
1
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Future Collectables

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< His name was Robert Suding. I have not talked to him for a long time. < left Colorado over 20 years ago. Robert lives out in western Colorado n < I do not know if he is doing any design work of any kind. This was late in the game. The Altair when first available had 4 cards for IO, the SIO-A (single serial), 2SIO (2 6850 serial ports), PIO(parallel) and the infamous ACR. At the time of the demo the ACR was available with usable software. Why they chose TTY loading to this date is speculation. What Sudding did do was to make the 300baud (30CPS) ACR and the 300baud (also 30cps) Kansas City standard look slow by pushing to 1500baud so that loading at 150cps was doable. However the Sudding standard never caught on as it was not tolerent of some problems (tape speed). The Tarbell standard would give a higher data rate and was self clocking. So went the audio casette hardware wars. When it was reaching it's peak most of us were looking at either real tape (saturation with block replaceability), disks or disk like systems. Allison

27 years, 5 months

1
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Collectibles for the future

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

>Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 15:50:22 -0800 Come to think of it, their photo-drive is rather weird! Actually, many of the latest machines are constructed quite originally, unlike ones a few years ago. >> >> On Sun, 8 Nov 1998, Marvin wrote: >> >> > Probably anything manufactured by HP will be collectable, >> >> Why do you say that? What has HP made in the last, say, five years that > >We are not talking about our particular biases right now, but rather how >things will be perceived in the future. I don't recall anyone thinking that >the IBM stuff would be collectable in the early 80's either. Perceptions >change :). > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 5 months

1
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Hayes S100 modem

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

>Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 10:27:04 -0800 (PST) As well as portables/laptops, the Corel Netwinder, various NCs, WebTV, kids' computers by vTech, the BeBox, and more. > >> Anybody care to hazard guesses at what products are actually being >> manufactured now, that you'd want to have in your classic computer >> collection ten years from now? > >Digital cameras, scanners, digital video cameras, photo printers, USB >devices, interesting video capture/TV cards, those nifty all-in-one >scanner/fax/printer/copier units, SyQuest drives (they be gone), Zip >drives... It seems the peripherals are the only innovations being made >these days in the PC world. > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Always being hassled by the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 11/02/98] > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 5 months

1
0
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Future Collectables

by brisch＠uswest.net

His name was Robert Suding. I have not talked to him for a long time. I left Colorado over 20 years ago. Robert lives out in western Colorado now. I do not know if he is doing any design work of any kind. From the >> back of the room my friend (the designer of the first digital group >> computer) said he would like to make a brief demo. > >Who was this guy (what is his name), and is he still around? > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Always being hassled by the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 11/02/98] > > >

27 years, 5 months

1
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Future Collectables

by brisch＠uswest.net

Ok you asked for it <grin> The Altair sales team was invited to give a demo of the then new 8800. They all showed up complete with a model 33 tty machine which was to read the paper tape for loading the Altair. The paper tape was loaded and the tty clanked along for about 4 to 5 minutes and finally stopped with the altair system loaded. They gave their dog and pony show and then asked for comments. From the back of the room my friend (the designer of the first digital group computer) said he would like to make a brief demo. He carried his equipment up front (under one arm ) and placed it on the table. The digital group system was loaded by means of an audio tape recorder. The loading time aprox 10 seconds. The computer then was able to run all of the basic routines written at that time. Well, the Altair guys were a bit unhappy. I know its shortcommings just like many of >> the other early machines. I also can tell some rather amusing stories >> about this machine. > >Please do. > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com

27 years, 5 months

2
1
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Future Collectables

by brisch＠uswest.net

Good day all, I have been following this thread and would like to add another item from the late 70's. Have any of you heard of the Digital Group computers? I have a few examples of this line which was developed as a true hobbyst machine. I know its shortcommings just like many of the other early machines. I also can tell some rather amusing stories about this machine. Bill Risch

27 years, 5 months

2
1
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Computer in Wyatt's room in "Weird Science"

by rcini＠email.msn.com

This afternoon, I watched the movie Weird Science for the thousandth time, and I have a question. Early in the movie, when Gary and Wyatt are first "building" Lisa, they are working at an all-black computer with two monitors (one is a green-screen and the other looks like a 19" color monitor). The system does not look familiar. Remembering the thread about the "War Games" computers, does anyone know: 1. Who made the computer on the desk? You can briefly see a logo on the front which looks like "TDK". 2. Which system(s) did they use to create the wire-frame graphics? The movie is (c) 1985 if that helps placing the technology. War Games is (c) 1983. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 5 months

1
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Docs poted today

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: Docs posted today to http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ are all CSG data sheets: - 24256 ROM - 65245 octal buffer - 2364 ROM - 2332 ROM - 6529 single port interface - 6523 TPI - 6525 TPI - 8701 clock generator Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 5 months

1
0
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Early Desktop Calculator Directory on-line,

by aknight＠mindspring.com

Hello, I just completed one of the projects I've been working on for my calculator Web page and thought it would be of interest to some of you. I've published a directory of desktop calculators that were manufactured from 1964 through approximately 1975. There are nearly a thousand machines listed in the directory. Included in the directory is information such as manufacturer, model, display type, # of memories, and decimal setting. There is also a "notes" column where I list if a machine has other capabilities such as programmability or scientific functions. There were quite a few high-end programmable calculators made during this time, many of which were advertised as being more cost-effective than mini-computers of the timeframe. Examples would be the HPs, the Olivetti Programma series, Compucorp machines (also marketed by Monroe and Dietzgen), some Sharp machines, and a few others. The directory is linked from the "desktop calculators" section of my Web site. It was quite a lot of work to pull all this together, I hope some of you find it useful and enjoyable. Regards, Alex Knight Calculator History & Technology Archive Web Page http://aknight.home.mindspring.com/calc.htm

27 years, 5 months

3
2
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Hayes S100 modem

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> wrote: > Does the D.C. Hayes modem for the S100 bus use the same "Microcoupler" as > their early Apple ][ modem? Hmm, how many FCC type IDs are there between them? I don't know, but I always figured that was the reason both modems used the same Microcoupler box -- Hayes only had to get one device FCC type-accepted that way. -Frank McConnell

27 years, 5 months

1
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An odd weekend find....

by dogas＠leading.net

This manual (Chapter 10) describes a 'ROM Cartrudge II' that is provided as a plug-in option in the HX-20. The ROM Cartridge II supplies from 8k to 32k bytes of data. Data in the externam ROM memory unit is in the forrm of a read-only ROM file. Data are read from the external ROM memory unit via i/oports using an addressing counter and a shift register.... port info follows..... -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> >[HX20] > >> The microcassette drive was actually removable. I don't know if Epson >> ever released anything else that could plug into that space besides the > >The hardware manual mentions (and gives a schematic for) an EPROM >cartridge that will fit up there. I've never tried to build one, but it >looks possible. > >-tony > >

27 years, 5 months

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HP Preservation Efforts

by aknight＠mindspring.com

At 06:44 PM 11/7/98 -0600, Doug wrote: >On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Joe wrote: > >> Thanks for the info. I'd heard some rumors of some one cutting a CD ROM >> of HP docs but I didn't know who was doing it. > >Yup, Dave will have one: > http://www.hpmuseum.org/software/swcd.htm I've spoken to Dave about this and am doing some scanning to include on the CD ROM. Right now the effort is mostly targeted at the HP pocket calculator models. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your point of view) there are far fewer collectors of "big iron" HPs like the 9800 series than of the pocket models. But there will be a lot of good material for the HP programmable calculators, including many/most of the application packs for machines like the HP65, HP67, and HP97. > >And Jake Schwartz will have another: > http://www.waterw.com/~jake-s/ppccdrom.htm This is an excellent set of CD ROMs. It has the issue of HP Journal that covers the HP9100, and the articles from later HP Journals that cover HP pocket calcs., as well as all the issues of HP65 Key Notes and HP Key Notes that cover HP's pocket programmable calculators. It has all the issues of the PPC Journal (including HP65 Notes, PPC Calculator Journal, and PPC Computer Journal). I haven't looked at all the issues yet but I'd guess that the PPC Computer Journal gives pretty good coverage to things like the HP75 and HP85 computers. For $20, it's a great deal. I think Jake said there's over 7000 pages of scanned material on this 2-CD ROM set. Regards, Alex Calculator History & Technology Archive Web Page http://aknight.home.mindspring.com/calc.htm

27 years, 5 months

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HP 88780S tape drive

by eric＠brouhaha.com

Does anyone have spare docs on the HP 88780S 9-track tape drive? I'm looking for both user and service manuals. Thanks! Eric

27 years, 5 months

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HP Preservation Efforts

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Doug, At 06:44 PM 11/7/98 -0600, you wrote: >On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Joe wrote: > >> Thanks for the info. I'd heard some rumors of some one cutting a CD ROM >> of HP docs but I didn't know who was doing it. > >Yup, Dave will have one: > http://www.hpmuseum.org/software/swcd.htm Yes, I looked at his website and found all that stuff. His ISP had gotten so slow that I had quit looking at his site. > >And Jake Schwartz will have another: > http://www.waterw.com/~jake-s/ppccdrom.htm Yes, I got three of the first sets from Jake at the HP conference in Portland. > >> Have you gotten the HP 110 stuff yet? I haven't. I E-mailed the guy and >> he said that he'd send the stuff to you but hasn't sent mine yet. >> OOPs! Forgget that. I just read your second message and I see you got the >> stuff. How does it look? > >It looks fine, but the guy took so long to ship that I was able to find >two addtional HP 110's in the meantime. Yeah, they seem to be pretty common and there's not much interest in them. More trading fodder! Anybody >have a spare 9100 they want to trade for a laptop or two?! You wish!!!!! Joe > >-- Doug > >

27 years, 5 months

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New stuff posted to Web site

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: Here's what I posted tonight to http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/index.html - Altair 8800 Operations Manual (4 parts) - AIM65 Basic Language Reference (2 parts) - remaining Morrow DiskJockey 2D parts (total 4 parts) Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 5 months

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An odd weekend find....

by dogas＠leading.net

Good day, all... I picked up an Epson HX-20 this weekend (with a rather thick and complete technical reference (the HX-20 Answer store is now open...)) The odd thing is that it *doesn't* have a built in microcassette. It did however come with the a cassette interface cord ala ear/mic/aux for which the machine is jacked. All refs (including aforementioned tech ref) to this machine I've seen show the integrated microcassette... Any info? anybody? Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 5 months

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An odd weekend find....

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> >Is that the hardware techref or the software techref? I've got the former >(thick book with schematics, diagnostic instructions, lubrication chart, >etc), but I also have a lot of software questions. I think that is the 'latter' one Tony... Its kind of slim on schematics and fat on rom routines etc... the 'Chapters at a Glance' are: 1. Intro, 2. Keyboard, 3. LCD, 4. Cass & mCass, 5. mPrinter, 6. rs-323, 7. Serial, 8. Floppy, 9. Bar Code Reader, 10. Rom Cart II, 11. Misc. i/o, 12. Load Module, 13. Slave MCU, 14. Virtual Screen, 15. Menu, 16. Monitor, 17. Basic, 18. Mem Maps (cha-ching, 19. Math Routines Appendexes: a. real-time clock, b. mem map quick ref, c. slace cpu mem map, d. subroutines, e. variables - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 5 months

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Info on H-I Plotter

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Today, I picked-up a Houston Instruments DMP2 plotter. The plotter looks like a really old 8-1/2x11" X-Y plotter with manual pen selection and what I think is an RS232 interface (internally, it's hooked to an AY3-1014). Does anyone have any info on this beastie? Thanks. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 5 months

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An odd weekend find....

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> > <snip> Did you at least get the plastic cover that fit in its place? Hi Sam, Yes, Its apparently, a (stock) dummy cartridge in the spot.... - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 5 months

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HP Preservation Efforts

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Doug, Thanks for the info. I'd heard some rumors of some one cutting a CD ROM of HP docs but I didn't know who was doing it. Have you gotten the HP 110 stuff yet? I haven't. I E-mailed the guy and he said that he'd send the stuff to you but hasn't sent mine yet. OOPs! Forgget that. I just read your second message and I see you got the stuff. How does it look? Joe At 05:25 PM 11/7/98 -0600, you wrote: >It seems that HP recently granted documentation duplication rights to a >couple of collectors. One of them is Dave Hicks, Mr. HP Museum. Dave >plans to cut a CD-ROM with lots-o-docs, and he's looking for volunteers to >help scan docs. I don't know how broad his reprint rights are, so you >might want to check with him before you start scanning. He primarily >collects calcs, but HP positioned several bona fide computers as calcs in >the 1968-1980 timeframe, so I know he'll be interested in docs for those. > >You can contact him at: > Dave Hicks <dgh(a)hpmuseum.org> > http://www.hpmuseum.org > >-- Doug > >

27 years, 5 months

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Another one --- Re: IBM 3274

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I've also got one of these things (IBM 3274).If anyone wants it they can have it for a VERY reasonable price. It's located in Florida. Joe At 01:03 AM 11/7/98 -0500, you wrote: >As Jay Jaeger pointed out to me, this thing is a terminal controller. I >was thinking it was a small server. Makes sense given the label on the >disk that came with it. I should have guessed from the number as well. > Is this of use to anyone on the list? I'm in Toronto. I'm not >going to store it as its out of my league for collectables. If nobody >wants it I'll grab the 8" drive out of it and hook it up to my PC. Of >course as soon as I do that the mainframe will show up. Probably sitting >in the garbage of the man around the corner who works for IBM. > Let me know soon. > >Colan > > > > >

27 years, 5 months

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2D barcodes

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>There was another encoding scheme for program distribution on paper. I >can't remember where it originated or when, late 80's seem about right... >But it looked like a (tv) screenshot of static on 8.5x11 or whatever and the >data density was pretty good.. >Again, I'm not sure but I think 5-20k/pg. was advertised. Another still >born of the info age.... Not still born at all - "2D barcodes" are coming into common use, and can be found on many recent package tracking labels. Tim.

27 years, 5 months

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An odd weekend find....

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

>technical reference (the HX-20 Answer store is now open...)) The odd thing >is that it *doesn't* have a built in microcassette. It did however come >with the a cassette interface cord ala ear/mic/aux for which the machine is >jacked. All refs (including aforementioned tech ref) to this machine I've >seen show the integrated microcassette... Any info? anybody? Not that unusual, mine doesn't have one either.

27 years, 5 months

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PDP-11/44 boot prompt

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I mentioned that all Apple computers have debuggers/monitors. NeXT is a workstation as far as I am concernced. The IBM PC is a good example of how things should be, though if it had a monitor too, it would be nice. Not like i'd ever use it, just nice to know it's there. >>Sorry, I meant home personal computers. PDPs, IMSAIs, various >>development systems don't count. Satisfied? > >Ah, but on this list, and most definitly in my home, PDP's, IMSAI's, etc. >are home personal computers :^) > >Besides Allison mentioned the IBM PC with ROM BASIC, and I've used a Zenith >Z248 (a 286) with a ROM Monitor that you can drop into, both of these are >definitly not developement machines. My NeXT slab had a ROM based monitor, >and the PowerMac I'm typing this on can be dropped into the debugger at any >time by hitting the proper key sequence. > > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 5 months

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"Softstrip" (Was: Kilobaud Magazine

by hhacker＠gte.net

Don't be surprised if such schema return to efficacy. William R. Buckley -----Original Message----- From: Mike <dogas(a)leading.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, November 07, 1998 2:27 PM Subject: Re: "Softstrip" (Was: Kilobaud Magazine >There was another encoding scheme for program distribution on paper. I >can't remember where it originated or when, late 80's seem about right... >But it looked like a (tv) screenshot of static on 8.5x11 or whatever and the >data density was pretty good.. >Again, I'm not sure but I think 5-20k/pg. was advertised. Another still >born of the info age.... > >Mike: dogas(a)leading.net > >

27 years, 5 months

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Short Intro

by hhacker＠gte.net

Kilobaud, when it first came out, provided the option to obtain a "Lifetime Subscription" which I recall cost $150.00US. Given that Kilobaud was so short lived, I do not think that those who purchased this subscription got their money's worth. Anybody recall things differently? William R. Buckley -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Swiger <cswiger(a)widomaker.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 12:34 PM Subject: Short Intro >Hello everybody > >Have just subscribed to the list but want to say hi to the members. > >My projects involve bringing an Altair back to life and trying to save >some of the software, migrating from cassette to audio CD and adding >to documentation. > >Just curious if anyone remembers a magazine called "Kilobaud" - Seems >like it had a short life. > > > Chuck > cswiger(a)widomaker.com >

27 years, 5 months

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8" drive/pc hookup web site

by cdrmool＠interlog.com

A while back I believe someone posted an address for a site that provided the schematic for hooking up an 8" drive to a pc. IF so, please pass it on to me again. Sorry for losing it. TIA Colan

27 years, 5 months

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"Softstrip" (Was: Kilobaud Magazine

by dogas＠leading.net

There was another encoding scheme for program distribution on paper. I can't remember where it originated or when, late 80's seem about right... But it looked like a (tv) screenshot of static on 8.5x11 or whatever and the data density was pretty good.. Again, I'm not sure but I think 5-20k/pg. was advertised. Another still born of the info age.... Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 5 months

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"Softstrip" (Was: Kilobaud Magazine

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< > As with all the others, it hung around for a year or so and then folde < > People just didn't like the concept I suppose, or maybe it just wasn' < > accurate enough (I don't know since I never actually used it). Neither, it was an attempt to distribute software. With floppies becomming more common and genrally dropping in price the floppy became the preferred mode. At the same time BBS systems were becomming common place enough to download software as well. In the larger view of technology it was a attempt to solve a problem that other solutions would displace. Other interum solutions included those thin records distributed by Interface Age that used the KC cassette interface standard. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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Kilobaud Magazine

by franke＠sbs.de

>> 'Byte's early years were fun for hardware hackers - I wonder if >> anybody actually got their 'barcode' software publishing scheme >> to work. They had a few issues with pages of barcodes you were >> supposedly able to read in with a wand. > I can also recall some MacUser's from the mid-80's had some scheme where > you could read in programs from the magazine with some form of wand, never > really took of tho. In Germany 'mc' (a more hardware orientated mag) tried also this kind of barcode thing in the early 80s - but I think after a year or so it faded away (the bar code, the magazine lasted until 94 I think). Gruss Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 5 months

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"Softstrip" (Was: Kilobaud Magazine

by franke＠sbs.de

> Are the old Kilobauds worth anything? > Old Bytes? 80 Micro? > How about the issues of PC magazine that are more than 10 years old? Shure - One year of Byte generates enough heat to get a hot bath (I still have acces to a coal heated shower :) Gruss Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 5 months

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Kilobaud Magazine

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

At 09:06 AM 11/7/98 -0800, Sellam wrote: > >Then of course there was the Causin SoftStrip reader. The Apple magazine >Nibble (among others) used to print strips about 5/8" wide that you could >cut out and run through the reader to load the published programs into >your computer instead of typing in listings. > >Thanks to Kai's generosity I finally fulfilled my lifelong quest to obtain >a SoftStrip reader at the VCF. I am complete. Naw... you are only complete when you find a copy of the software to generate the Causin bar codes (yes, they did actually sell it!) and start archiving your software on reams of paper! ...and when you find it, I want a copy too! -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

27 years, 5 months

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486DX/SX (was: Re: Classic != IBM AT)

by franke＠sbs.de

> PC Magazine back in the early 90's had something that mentioned this. If I > remember correctly it was one of the Dvorak columns. He mentioned that the > 486SX was basically a marketing ploy by Intel to allow them to get rid of > 486DX chips with defective Math CoPro units. More or less there have been also 486SX with full working but disabled FPUs, since the 486SX was also used to deploy a lower price unit without touching the 'real' 486 price. > As for a Math CoPro for the 486, I'm not sure I ever saw a 487 chip, but I > always figured that they took the chips that didn't cut it as a normal > processor but had a good Math CoPro, and sold them as 487's. No, the 487 was just an 486DX with no modifications to the processor it self - just (AFAIR) one of the former unused pins now delivered a signal to disable the 486SX. So systems with 486SX and 487 just had two complete CPUs (And double power consumption :). > I've no idea if this is true, but it made sense to me, since why through > out a chip with a good processor, with you can just package it as a 486SX, > and sell it at reduced cost. Sounds to me like everyone won. After all, > how many people really felt the need for a Math CoProcessor in the early > 90's? Gee - I had a 8087 in my first XT - I never used it beside some tests, but i HAD one - super power computer ! Yes, I wrote some programms to play with the ability to have two concurent processors running, but no real world app. And I still don't know for what a FPU is usefull - Anything can still be done in integer - you just have to think (sometimes a bit harder) about what you are about to do. Gruss Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 5 months

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Short Intro

by cswiger＠widomaker.com

Hello everybody Have just subscribed to the list but want to say hi to the members. My projects involve bringing an Altair back to life and trying to save some of the software, migrating from cassette to audio CD and adding to documentation. Just curious if anyone remembers a magazine called "Kilobaud" - Seems like it had a short life. Chuck cswiger(a)widomaker.com

27 years, 5 months

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Does anyone need an LA100 board?

by rcini＠email.msn.com

Hello, all: While cleaning my lab, I came across a DEC LA100 main board. Does anyone need this? Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 5 months

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ePay revisited once more

by rcini＠email.msn.com

>>The problem you're encountering isn't an error in math, it's an error in >>understanding. You're misunderstanding is common becayse Ebay words thier >>rules rather crappily. >>You are charged 5% of all sales up to $25 PLUS an additional 2.5% for $25 to $1000. >>So using the printer that sold for $41, you get charged 5% for the first >>$25 (1.25) then 2.5% for the additional $16 (.40) for a total of $1.65. >>I know, it's a weird system :) You may think that it is wierd for ePay, but it's not uncommon to United States citizens as a whole. That type of system, called a marginal rate scale, is used by the Internal Revenue Service (but called "tax brackets") for calculating your Income Tax. Yes, folks, ePay uses the same system as the US Government uses. The only difference is that the IRS marginal rate increases as the scale goes up; ePay's goes down. Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 5 months

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486DX/SX (was: Re: Classic != IBM AT)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Speaking of which, does anyone have any 387 chips to go in a laptop? I guess they're the pinless variety. >>Speaking of which, I read in a PC repair book that the 486SX is a >>486DX with certain lines cut to disable the math coprocessor. The >>thing that went into the coprocessor socket was a rebranded 486DX >>that took over all functions of the SX when installed. Anyone know >>about this? > >PC Magazine back in the early 90's had something that mentioned this. If I >remember correctly it was one of the Dvorak columns. He mentioned that the >486SX was basically a marketing ploy by Intel to allow them to get rid of >486DX chips with defective Math CoPro units. > >As for a Math CoPro for the 486, I'm not sure I ever saw a 487 chip, but I >always figured that they took the chips that didn't cut it as a normal >processor but had a good Math CoPro, and sold them as 487's. > >I've no idea if this is true, but it made sense to me, since why through >out a chip with a good processor, with you can just package it as a 486SX, >and sell it at reduced cost. Sounds to me like everyone won. After all, >how many people really felt the need for a Math CoProcessor in the early >90's? I added one to a 386sx laptop in January of '94 when I was forced to >go from my 486DX/33 to a 386SX/16 laptop since I was mainly using it for >Linux, and didn't want to have to emulate the math functions, still I don't >know that I needed it. > > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 5 months

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