- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Nov 9, 16:34, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I have been in discussion with some folks about 1802's and the possibility > of producing a modern PCB for the Popular Electronicss Elf design. Hans > Franke seems to think that there would be some interest in Germany for > a few units, enough to make me consider burning a board. I would be > curious to hear what other list members though about price, features, etc. > The good news is that Harris still makes the 1802 for less than $10, and > the TIL311 displays that the Elf calls for are available for less than $10 > each, used. > How authentic should a modern Elf be? Try to use 1822/2101 RAM or use > cheaper 6264 SRAM chips? Very hard to get 1822/2101s, I expect. A compromise might be to use 2114 or similar. All the worst feartures of both - not original and not very tolerant of power rail inadequacies :-) > Add space for an optional 1861 video chip, > a-la the fourth part of the orginal Elf article? Add space for a 1854 > UART? Add an I/O port? A UART is always good on any machine... > Classic clones, anyone? I'd be interested. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 5 months

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VAX/VMS Hobbiest License?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I have noted the last couple of days a reference to a VAX/VMS "Hobbiest >License". This is not something I was aware of, and I have a couple of >MicroVAXen that could use VMS. >Is there a web site or other source someone could refer me to? http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ is the definitive page :-). Other very useful VMS resources: http://www.openvms.digital.com/ ftp://ftp.wku.edu/ http://www.decus.org/ news:comp.os.vms -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 5 months

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X-Specs LCD glasses

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 06:43 AM 11/16/98 -0500, Doug Spence wrote: > >I'm hoping to eventually locate some X-Specs 3D which worked at television >frequencies. >No sign of the libraries, but I've seen them somewhere. That's the name I couldn't remember. I've got a set of these. I've got the floppy somewhere, in one of those eight tubs of Amiga floppies in the basement. - John

27 years, 5 months

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Question about VAXen?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Okay, so if I get this machine...it looks like from some FAQs that I < ought to be able to hook up generic SCSI drives to the machine... Stay under 1gb for boot disk otherwise most all work. VMS fits nicely with plenty of free space on a 240mb disk. < Maybe my Sanyo CD-ROM will work? Anyone know of a good place for info < on using 3rd party SCSI CD-ROMS with a VAX or with where I could buy a < cheap VAX CD-ROM? can't answer on this but generally there out there. < Will I be able to network this thing in with my Linux, FreeBSD, and < Windows box? Currently I am using thin coax and sticking it in there < with a terminator on the end ought to do it? I guess VMS uses TCP/IP Yes, VMS networks. It's default networking is DECnet but CMUip can be loaded and that will get you IP. VMD is not TCP/IP. < Anyone know of a place to get manuals for a VAXStation or some good < beginning VMS books? Library is where I start. < Lastly, found the hobbyist CD for $30 at Montagor(?) Is this the < standard deal or can I get it cheaper...I am kinda on a small Go with that, it's cheap as it's all the versions from 5.4 to 6.1 and a pot load of other stuff (like CMUip). < budget...all my money goes to paying of college debt and saving up for < house for my wife and I :) The alternat is if you have tape a TK50 kit or a helpful local friend that can run VMSbuild. You will need the DECUS membership (free) and also the License (free to members). The license is the key for VMS or you will be limited to maintenance login. Generally I've found my vaxen with VMS still on it. That, a License pak(key) and knowing how to crack the password (not a secret!) and your set. Older versions of VMS V5.3 -> 6.1 are quite stable so any version will do for the DECUS license. If your a unix head and a bit masochistic there is NetBSD and that runs on some of the 3100 series (not sure about the m40). Look up netBSD on the web for more. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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New Altair Club forming!

by DaveyGF＠aol.com

I haven't gotten any spam...

27 years, 5 months

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Help verify contents of MVII

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> I'm not exactly sure if Qbus needs terminators like Unibus The termination issues are different. In general, with single-box Q-bus configurations there aren't any worries about termination, as the box designers took care of this for you. Once you get out of the realm of "toy" machines and into serious Q-bus configurations with multiple chained backplanes, termination issues do become very important. > So >far to now, I haven't found a FAQ or website which addresses this exact >question. You want to look at Micronote #29, _Q-bus Expansion Concepts_. The Micronotes are available from: http://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardwar… A question for the net-savvy (of which I am certainly not one; I've tried http://www.slashdot.com/ without any success - all I get is "404 Not Found" errors!): I've submitted the above index to the Micronotes to many search engines - most notably Altavista - but none of them have indexed any of the text files, containing the actual information, referenced in the index. Can anyone figure out why? -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 5 months

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Old Computer Link on Slashdot

by DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com

Go to www.slashdot.org - Someone got linked from there. -------

27 years, 5 months

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Elf99 - rebirth of a classic

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Ack! I need a bunch of these to get a PET 2001 going (all of the 6550s < are bad, and I was told that the 2114 is the same part?) and a VIC 3K RA < Expander fixed. I don't think so. However, I have a handful of 2114s. If I were building now I'd use 2116 (2kx8), 6264 (8kx8) or the 62256 (32kx8) as they are cheap and required fewer interconnects and simpler layouts. < Is there anything else that they can be easily replaced with? With som < minor hacking that doesn't modify the computer in any major way? 2114s are a reliable part, there were some vendors that made garbage! The NEC D444 is cmos pin/level compatable and RCA had the 5114. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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Saved Altair 4K BASIC

by cswiger＠wilma.widomaker.com

Members: Project success: Rescued a working binary of ALtair 4K basic off the old cassette tape (after much diddling with volume and tone controls) so you can be sure we're going to make a fresh dump direct to a sound card and audio CD for preservation. Wish I could find the original docs. Sure does add a lot of value to the machine to have easy floating point and flow control! Next level: Startrek (and other rudimentary games). Can't do much without strings tho. Hmmm, might have 8K basic here somewhere... Curious what the copyright situation on BASIC (or related products) is? Certainly Gate's hasn't released it into public domain. Chuck cswiger(a)widomaker.com

27 years, 5 months

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Acorn BBC Micros

by franke＠sbs.de

>> US UK >> >> NTSC -- smooth and flaky PAL -- flickery but more reliable > 60Hz vertical scan - smooth 50Hz vertical scan - more flickery > NTSC - flaky PAL - more reliable Due a smaler coulour band signal. The slow colour change is a real pain for movies but the 50 vs 60 Hz isn't visible, althrugh when used with computers, both are just bad. > I think the 50/60Hz difference *may* be a problem, since a US monitor will > prefer to sync to 60Hz. Al long as you are using an RGB monitor, almost any will syncronize well. For FBASthere is a problem, but most actual TV sets should display PAL and NTSC (and 50/60 Hz) without any doubt. Timing isn't any longer generated from the power line. Also, since most TV controllers are IC based, they use just one type everywhere. This might not be true for the low price TV sets, but any TV I (or friends of mine) had within the last 10 years could syncronize 60 Hz b&w and all (but one tested in 1984) could also display NTSC signals. Gruss hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 5 months

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Acorn BBC Micros

by franke＠sbs.de

>>> I definitely notice the 50Hz vs 60Hz difference on my computer. >> It is visible when using a still picture like a computer >> output. > Well, I can see the 50Hz flicker when running demos, too. It's not just > because the picture is stable. > Of course, I also have 60Hz lights. When running European software I'll > often shut off the lights and I notice the flicker less. Maybe this adds some interferences - but are you shure you had 50 Hz display, or a 50 to 60Hz full screen conversation ? Often they just add pictures wich results in a strange effect giving a kind of cartoon feeling. >> 60 Hz gives a more stable view, but on the other >> hand, the poor NTSC coulour signal just damages the view >> again, so again the result is bas - taking this and the >> lower resolution (less horizontal and vertical lines in NTSC) >> I'll prefer the flicker. > Less horizontal lines? Televisions are analog horizontally, and all of > the computers I know of generate the same number of pixels horizontally > whether they're in Europe or North America. Shure, they are analog, but still a real world application. And every signal needs time to rise and fall. And since analog isn't digital (in fact nothing is digital in real world), the signal has to go from black to white thru all shades inbetween (and all shades will be transmitted :). Only a digital signal could go from blac to white without any delay - but as I said before the world isn't digital even digital signals are analog and need their time between their levels. Within the 5MHz (b&w) BAS video signal (transmitted withing the 7 or 8 MHz chanal) the shortest black to white and back transition (one line) is withing 0.2 us witch gives some 310 theoretical lines within one screen line (horizontal). But such a signal would be displayed as some kind of gray. The real resolution within a b&w signal is often less than 250 lines on a real screen. >> THe best was still using PAL with >> 60 Hz - some homecomputers of the 80s could be programmed >> for that - less flicker and high resolution and biliant >> (or at least as briliant as a narow band colour signal >> can be) colours. > Certain European Amiga models would be able to generate 60Hz PAL. I don't > know what else could, but I've never come across a European computer. Same for Atari STs and AFAIR C64s, almost all MSXes... >>> I might >>> not notice it with a TV signal, though - I've never watched PAL >>> television. (But I've watched 50Hz 'EuroDemos' on the TV.) >> EuroDemos ? Whats that ? > Demonstrations of music, special effects, artwork, etc, done on the > computer. Part of C64 and Amiga culture. Called either 'demos', or > 'Eurodemos' because they're usually written by European demogroups and Oh, nust a missunderstanding - I thought about some kind of demo show on TV. > they often completely fail to run on 60Hz screens. (I think they take > pride in making their programs not work on North American computers.) Maybe the same ignorance as US programmers have for any spot outside their littele hometown ? Serious, these demos are so tight packed with the FBAS / TV timeing that changing any parameter just kills funktion, especialy on the C64. If you want to manipulate scrren colours within a screen line (hor.) the CPU cycles are just attached to the colours, content and FBAS timing. And a screen line (hor.) in PAL is about 62.5 us while a NTSC line is 57us (AFAIR). So, PAL allowes up to 3 additional 6502 operation to be performed within a line. These demos are sometimes real tight ... > There are still demoparties in Europe with prizes for Amiga and C64 > entries. Shure - they are BIG events - sometimes several hundred participants. >> I used an SONY TV for the ATARI ST, 10 years ago. > My brother used a Sony TV for his C64. Which kind of sucked because it > only had composite input. I just mentioned SONY as an example for Japaneese TV where SCART and RGB and 50/60 Hz switch are common features since more than 10 years. Servus Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 5 months

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MICRO magazine (6502 related), who knows?

by museum＠techniche.com

Hi Group, I was doing some work on my collection this weekend. In particular I was reviewing my MICRO magazines (that deal with the KIM, PET, and various 6502 systems). I noticed that the latest copy I have is issue #18. I was wondering if anyone knew if there were issues beyond this or if the name of the magazine changed into something else and I'm just not making the connection? By the way, in the range of issues #1-18, I am missing issues #15 & #16. I do however have duplicates of some of the other issues. If anyone has duplicates of those two issues, in good shape, and you're interested in trading, one-for-one, let me know which issues you need and I'll see if that's one of the ones that I have duplicates of. I should have noted which ones I have copies of but I forgot and they're not here with me. Jon

27 years, 5 months

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MAC/ Apple //c compatibility questions

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Hello everyone! I have a Mac Portable. I also have an Apple //c. I'm wondering if there's a version of AppleWorks, AppleSoft BASIC, and Apple LOGO that will run on the MAC. I'm also looking for either the 3.5" floppy for the //c, or a 5.25" floppy for the Mac (the 3.5 for the //c would be better). The drives don't necessarily have to Apple brand, as long as they'll work. As always, ThAnX in advance, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

27 years, 5 months

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MAC/ Apple //c compatibility questions

by roblwill＠usaor.net

-----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, November 15, 1998 8:19 PM Subject: Re: MAC/ Apple //c compatibility questions > >As far as I know there was never a 5.25" drive produced for the Mac. I >wouldn't be surprised if I am wrong, but I doubt it. > Would an external 5.25" for the //c work on the Mac? The plugs are the same (although that usually doesn't mean much). Would it work under the emulator? -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

27 years, 5 months

2
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New Altair Club forming!

by DaveyGF＠aol.com

Hello, I have compiled an extensive mailing list of enthusiasts and collectors of the Altair computer family. Please join this new forum to preserve the history and memorablia of the Altair. You have been invited by daveygf to join the listed Yahoo! Club named "Altair Computer Club". To become a member of this club, just go to the Web address below: http://edit.clubs.yahoo.com/config/sjg?.i=altaircomputerclub&.a=i& You need to go to the address above to join the club, but you can take a look at the club by going to: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/altaircomputerclub You can learn more about daveygf by looking at the Yahoo! Public Profile: http://profiles.yahoo.com/daveygf A Yahoo! Club is a great way to bring friends, family or anyone you know together using the latest in Web technologies. Club members are able to take advantage of a club's private chat room, message boards and other features. You can also create your own free club focused on any interest, such as hobbies, families and industry associations. Clubs are either listed or unlisted. Listed clubs are available to the public while unlisted clubs are available exclusively to those who receive invitations. If you have no interest in joining this club, there is no need for you to do anything. You will not be enrolled as a member. Thanks, The Yahoo! Clubs team http://clubs.yahoo.com/ P.S. If you need some help on getting started, go to: http://help.yahoo.com/help/clubs/

27 years, 5 months

2
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modern removable media drives

by mark_k＠iname.com

On 13 Nov 1998 Eric Smith wrote: >That's my point. The Syquest SyJet and Sparq drives, and the Iomgea >Jaz drive, appear to use what you have listed as configuration 2. >They have to, in order to get .75 to 1.0G density per platter. >Configuration 1 can't get the head close enough to the media. And even >if they did use configuration 1 and get the head close enough to the >media, then it would be just as susceptible to foreign particles as >configuration 2. > >That's precisely why they are so f*&#ing unreliable. > >Out of over 30 SyJet and Sparq drives, I don't think we've had a single >one last more than 100 cartridge insert/eject cycles. I'm surprised more people don't use MO (magneto-optical) drives. 640MB on a 3.5" MO disk, no head contact with disk surface (data read using laser), not susceptible to magnetic fields, media life at least 30 years, cheap media compared to Jaz, Zip etc. (12 pounds for a 640MB disk) If the disk surface ever gets really dusty (and this will take a very long time) you can just use a cleaning kit; basically this involves wiping the disk surface with a cloth moistened with fluid, like you would to clean a CD-ROM disc. -- Mark

27 years, 5 months

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MAC/ Apple //c compatibility questions

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>I'm wondering if there's a version of AppleWorks, AppleSoft BASIC, and Apple >LOGO that will run on the MAC. Take a look at <www.emulation.net>. The one Apple II emulator you'll find there (I forget its name) is made specifically for emulating Appleworks (not sure if it will run on a Portable, though). As for BASIC and LOGO, I'm don't think you'll find Apple versions, but take a look at chipmunk-BASIC. I've seen a few LOGO hypercard stacks that didn't impress me much, not sure if there's anything better. Alternatively, you could use the "][ in a Mac" emulator. That would give you AppleSoft BASIC, as well as Appleworks and LOGO, if you can put up with the small screen. If you're interested, I'll send you a copy. >I'm also looking for either the 3.5" floppy >for the //c, or a 5.25" floppy for the Mac (the 3.5 for the //c would be >better). The drives don't necessarily have to Apple brand, as long as >they'll work. Tom Owad

27 years, 5 months

1
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IBM System 34 and 36 questions

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

The System/34 is on wheels. You do need to lock the hard drive heads if there's a hard drive. To do this: slide a coin or screwdriver into the little slots on the sides of the machine to open the panels. Once you've found the hard drive, there is one variety I can help you with. In this one, there is a metal box to the right of the motor, spindle, etc. On one side of this box is a single screw which you have to remove. This will allow you to swing the metal box out of the way on its hinges. Once done, you will find a white plastic wheel on the bottom edge of the drive. TUrn it all the way in the direction that it will turn. THere should be directions on the metal box as well. > plus some manuals and tapes. Everything is supposed to be in working > order- they upgraded and pulled the plug. > > 1. How much do these things weigh? The computer person there estimated > 2000 lb. for the 34, 1000 lb. for the 36, 700 lb. on the printers and 500 > lb. on the tape drives. Does that sound about right? > >The weights are about right. A good loading dock or a good forklift is >necessary. > > 2. How possible is partial dismantling for transport? I didn't get to > tear into them to look. Loading access is fairly good in the building > they are in, but unloading the 34 could be tricky. It would help if I > could lighten them up. > >Genarally they are on wheels and are not taken apart to be moved. I don't know >the configuation of the 34. It is possible it could be composed of several >parts, but looking at the model number I think it is one piece.. I have moved >several of these systems and usually I rent a truck with a railgate type of >liftgate on it. These have a larger deck and ride flatter. Hopefully the truck >matches the dock. Use a flat dock plate. If there is a mismatch put a piece of >sheet steel over the dock plate to reate a smooth surface to roll on. IBM made >a little wire U shaped clip (bent at the bottom of the U) that is used to keep >the wheels from rolling. This can hold the unit still untill you can tie it >down. Remember there is lots of mass involved. It is best to tie off each >machine. > > 3. What needs to be done before moving? Head locking, moving or removing > anything, stuff like that. > >At each corner near the wheels are leveling screws. these need to be raised >with a crescent wrench, all the way up. > > Other less important stuff that I'm curious about: > > 4. What kind of interface does it have to the terminals? > > 5. What kind of power does it need? I'd assume 3 phase 220v. > >It could be single phase. > > 6. How much computing power is this? Compared to a VAX 11/750, say. > > 7. How will these things tolerate living in an unheated building over > winter? I live in IL. > >They should survive if you don't try to power them up. They want to be warm to >run. > > Any other hints and tips would be greatly appreciated. I'd really like to > be able to move these machines without damage (to the machines or me). > > I went there today mainly as a recon mission, but they convinced me to > take home a Wang word processing system. The server is a model OIS-60X, > and it has 4 terminals hooked up by RS336 (?) over coax (BNC connectors), > plus a laser printer. I think the printer weighs more than the server. > I got a bunch of cartridges for it, and some Canon copier cartridges too, > "because they're almost the same". I think not. > >> >If the Laser printer is an LDP-8 then the Canon Carts should work. The engine >is a Canon SX I think. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 5 months

5
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Help verify contents of MVII

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)netsync.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, 16 November 1998 7:52 Subject: Help verify contents of MVII >Briefly, I have a Microvax II that I got in that big haul of DEC gear this >past July. Sorry, must have been before I was in the list, what did you get? :^) >FWIW: the hard disk is an RD53, there's no FD. As I understand it, the FDD/TK50 was an either/or thing. >I also got a raggy looking VT220 I still need to check out which I >understand is needed for MVII's. Not necessarily a 220. A VT100 would do, or even a pc running a terminal emulation. The trick is more to do with the pinout of the console port on the MVII which is not what you probably expect. >The Ethernet modules were already missing from the two big VAXen and maybe >from one of the PDPs that I got in that haul so there could have been >Ethernet cards in a couple of these MVII slots which could account for part >of the empties. I could have a spare VAXBI Ethernet adaptor if you get stuck. What model Vaxen? >Would like to wire Ethernet into this house to interconnect >machines, but first things first (such as *finishing* work on the house and >getting machines to just _run_!) Good starting point. >Other than the obvious, such as checking PSU, etc. before lighting it up, >are there any other words of wisdom or MVII info sources anyone could >direct me to? I have basically no documentation except for most of a set of >VMS 5.4 manuals - Microvax FAQ is the best spot, there is a section there on the MVII and it's console connections. URl is http://anacin.nsc.vcu.edu/~jim/mvax/mvax_faq_text.html There is also a lot of useful stuff in the VMS FAQ, I don't have the url handy here, I'll post it from work later today. I strongly recommend reading both docs, there is some duplication, but I found things in the VMS faq (like the pinout of the MVII console port) that are not in the MVII FAQ. >and I of course do not yet know what OS this machine runs >(but likely VMS of some version I suspect.) Almost certainly. 5.4 or 5.5 most likely. The docs are not a lot different for the versions. I have a vms 5.5 manual set that I use for a vms 6 system. > >There's a few online URLs I have scrounged that have some MVII info bits >but as I said, none talk specifically about this bus thing. (So maybe it's >a non-issue but I don't know . . .) There is some archived email/ng correspondence in the MVII FAQ that discusses such things, ie moving cards around, removing cards etc. That may be of help. Cheers Geoff Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 5 months

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8008s and PDP11s

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Not all (actually relatively few) PDP-11s had 8008s in them, and then only on one specific board that *I* know of... it was an option that was generally ordered with the initial system. If this is going to turn into another one of those "tear down a System to get one part and chuck the rest" deals.. (reminds me of ivory poachers...) I am thinking of programming a PAL or something to emulate the functions of the uP chip... another project, just what I need. Or is anyone else out there thinking the same thing? Might 'save' a system if All Else Fails (as it often does). 4004 trivia: I was told by the Fujitsu Elevator tech where I work that the five machines in our building are all controlled by a 4004-based system.. that apparently Fuji is still supplying in one form or another. Disclaimer: I am *NOT* responsible if they all stop working mysteriously.. I do *NOT* have the keys to the equipment room, I have *NOT* been up there in ages... ;} Cheers John

27 years, 5 months

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Help verify contents of MVII

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Briefly, I have a Microvax II that I got in that big haul of DEC gear >this past July. I'm trying to find time to check the machine out. First, >I need to ask the MVII gurus whether I need to have bus terminators in >the last empty slots. No. >The chassis is a BA23. Machine's model # is 630QY-A2 > >Slot 1: M7606 EF (KA630-AA w/1mB RAM, F.P., T.O.Y. clock, boot/diag. ROM) > 2: M7608 BP (MS630-BB, 4mB RAM) > 3: M9047 (Grant continuity card) > 4: M3104 DHV11-A, 8-line async. comm. card) > 5: A-B side: M7546 (TQK50-AA, TK50 controller) > 5: C-D side: M7555 (RQDX3, Win./FD controller) > 6: <empty> > 7: <empty> > 8: <empty> > 9: <empty> >FWIW: the hard disk is an RD53, there's no FD. The space for the Floppy is being taken up by the TK50 (figuring you have one, given that you have the controller for it) >I also got a raggy looking VT220 I still need to check out which I >understand is needed for MVII's. A *terminal* of some sort is needed, unless you get the VCB02 (QDSS, 4- or 8-plane color graphics) modules. >Other than the obvious, such as checking PSU, etc. before lighting it up, >are there any other words of wisdom or MVII info sources anyone could >direct me to? I have basically no documentation except for most of a set >of VMS 5.4 manuals -and I of course do not yet know what OS this machine >runs (but likely VMS of some version I suspect.) VMS, Ultrix, NetBSD Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 5 months

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Help verify contents of MVII

by cfandt＠netsync.net

Hi folks, Briefly, I have a Microvax II that I got in that big haul of DEC gear this past July. I'm trying to find time to check the machine out. First, I need to ask the MVII gurus whether I need to have bus terminators in the last empty slots. I'm not exactly sure if Qbus needs terminators like Unibus. So far to now, I haven't found a FAQ or website which addresses this exact question. I just need to be sure in case the machine has a problem coming up and I can rule bus terms out. Here's the board compliment as I got the machine: The chassis is a BA23. Machine's model # is 630QY-A2 Slot 1: M7606 EF (KA630-AA w/1mB RAM, F.P., T.O.Y. clock, boot/diag. ROM) 2: M7608 BP (MS630-BB, 4mB RAM) 3: M9047 (Grant continuity card) 4: M3104 DHV11-A, 8-line async. comm. card) 5: A-B side: M7546 (TQK50-AA, TK50 controller) 5: C-D side: M7555 (RQDX3, Win./FD controller) 6: <empty> 7: <empty> 8: <empty> 9: <empty> FWIW: the hard disk is an RD53, there's no FD. I also got a raggy looking VT220 I still need to check out which I understand is needed for MVII's. The Ethernet modules were already missing from the two big VAXen and maybe >from one of the PDPs that I got in that haul so there could have been Ethernet cards in a couple of these MVII slots which could account for part of the empties. Would like to wire Ethernet into this house to interconnect machines, but first things first (such as *finishing* work on the house and getting machines to just _run_!) Other than the obvious, such as checking PSU, etc. before lighting it up, are there any other words of wisdom or MVII info sources anyone could direct me to? I have basically no documentation except for most of a set of VMS 5.4 manuals -and I of course do not yet know what OS this machine runs (but likely VMS of some version I suspect.) There's a few online URLs I have scrounged that have some MVII info bits but as I said, none talk specifically about this bus thing. (So maybe it's a non-issue but I don't know . . .) Thanks gang! Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

27 years, 5 months

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IBM desktop manuals/disk

by cdrmool＠interlog.com

With what I picked up yesteray, I now have the reasonable beginnings of a collection of older IBM manuals and disks for desktop PC's, XT's, AT''s and PCjr. While I'm not offering any to give or sell, if there is any information anyone could use from any of these I'd be happy to dig it out. I know someone from either this list or from the computer folklore newsgroup was looking for the Technical Reference Manual for Personal Computer AT. It is truly an awesome text. Here is what I have. Unless otherwise noted, they contain the disks that came with them: -Technical Reference Personal Computer AT -Hardware Maintenance Reference:Personal Computer Systems -Guide to Operations: Personal Computer (PC) -Guide to Operations: Personal Computer XT -Guide to Operations: Personal Computer AT -Guide to Operations: Personal Computer PCjr Languages: -Pascal Compiler ver.2.00 vol.1 -Basic ver.3.0 (no disks) -Basic Compiler/2 -Macro Assembler 1st edition -Sort OS's: -IBM Dos ver. 2.1, 3.1,3.3, and a copy of 1.1 but no manual I would love to eventually scan all these and have disk images on a web page but I can't afford the lawyers I'd need to stay out of jail :-( Colan

27 years, 5 months

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A Device Based on the 4004

by mcquiggi＠sfu.ca

Hi Group: I'm late to this thread, but if it hasn't been mentioned already, I recall that both Voyager I and Voyager II space probes were 4004 based in their control/housekeeping units. I see from the JPL pages that regular communications with Voyager have just recently ceased, and that they are well beyond Pluto and above the plane of the solar system, next system to be reached in about 20000 years. Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca

27 years, 5 months

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anyone need/want ?

by dogas＠leading.net

I found a 3M CompacTape for Intellegent Query and IQ Access:at the bottom of a box of goodies. Almost off topic, except that the other contents of the box were 10+ years old... details follow. RDB/SQL VAX VMS 05-23-94 VERSION 3.02.17 VMS INSTALL Anyone want it? MIke: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 5 months

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Devices with 4004 chips

by DaveyGF＠aol.com

Hi, I am new to this mailing list... Does anyone know where I can obtain an archive of past posts?? Thanks, David

27 years, 5 months

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MITS Altair

by DaveyGF＠aol.com

Ok, then I will ask you guys.. I recently obtained an Altair 8800. I would like to get a hold of any notes/manuals/journals or SCANNED versions of these documents.. to help me with my restoration and also to possibly publish on my web site (its under development, but you will hear from me when it is done!) Who has info? David

27 years, 5 months

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Devices with 4004 chips

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>What you want to look for is a device that could use BCD (or another 4 >bit code), and that would need a CPU, and that wouldn't gain much from >the extra instructions of the 4040. Such things are not that common. That describes many devices that use Texas Instruments TMS100 and descendants instead of 4004's :-). How come people are so hot after 4004's and 8008's - even ripping up PDP-11/34a's to get at the 8008's inside, for example - when nobody cares about the TMS100's? Tim.

27 years, 5 months

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Minimum hardware requirements (Was: Old, but not "Classic"

by lfb107＠psu.edu

>>NB: MINIMUM requirements are NOT to be confused with RECOMMENDED >>configuration. Particularly when it gets to issues of "acceptable >>performance". > >This is the major impediment. Like the 386SX running 95. It worked, but it >was >such a slug that we put 3.11 back on it after 2 days of tinkering. That >improved it's >performance significantly. I have seen a 386DX40 running Win95. It was a >little slow, >but still useable. > >Cheers > >Geoff >Computer Room Internet Cafe That's odd. I had an SX-33 386 that (not counting bootup) actually ran things a bit faster under 95 than it did under 3.11 (This with 4megs ram and an 80mb harddisk) Les

27 years, 5 months

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Tandy Pocket Computers

by ckaiser＠oa.ptloma.edu

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1422 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981113/657ecec0/at…

27 years, 5 months

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Favorite Head Crash | reply somewhat Off Topic

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< of humorous stories of misadventures involving classic equipment.. < At DEC, we had loads of them.. Hey Allison, I bet you've got a few! I didn't live in the field so they are few. The best ones I can't repeat as they can from product safety. Suffice to say that the words it can hurt you are about as meaningfull to a three year old as some field engineers. Though the woman that wanted a lead vest to work on a laser printer due to "radiation" was always a good laugh. My favorite, was CSSE support room with mostly dead out of rev systems. Of course we had the best (cheap management) so our 11/70 had three RM03s two in use... the third for backup. Why? It had a bad spindle bearing as was too loud to use continuosly! I supported the roll out of the LPS40 40ppm network laser printer. We had a site in utah that had a printing defect and I was sent to see what the story was. Never got to see it... the night I arrive the building had a water main burst on the top floor causing a collapse to the floor below it crushing the printer. The MicroVAXII in the bottom was unscathed! I remember warstories and a few other sites... ;) Allison

27 years, 5 months

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Devices with 4004 chips

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In 1990 scrapped an AM Jacquard 100 word processor that had one in it. Nice gold chip with intel & 4004 on it. I did not think to save it at the time. I have a couple of 8008s saved now. Paxton

27 years, 5 months

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Microvaxen bits etc.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I've got cabling installed all over the place. I just need to work out < what I want to use it to connect to what... I have it beat... Beige RG58 for 10b2 and I am Da Wife!!! Actually due to the construction of the house it's pretty easy to string wire as needed to any room through the attic. I've had to do it for the TV distribution. My .02 is why did they go with BNC? Eithernet would do as well with F connectors and they are cheaper and easier to affix. I've done my share of connectors for RF in 25+ years from TNC, BNC, N, F, PL259s, RCA and XLRs to name a few. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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Apple //c pinouts

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I know I asked this question before, but I lost the message when I got a new HD. 1.) What are the pinouts on the RGB port on the //c? 2.) What is the pinout on a standard CGA monitor? ThAnX, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

27 years, 5 months

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Subscription issues

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I'm changing my e-mail address to kurtkilgor(a)bigfoot.com, everyone. Now, should I subscribe to majordomo(a)nut.net? Does that forward mail from u.washington.edu? Also, if anyone here can help me with getting mail to work under Linux, please email privately. Thanks. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 5 months

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Devices with 4004 chips

by mark_metzler＠xoommail.com

I have come to understand that shortly after the original Busicom calculator came out with the 4004 chip, very quickly, many more devices used the chip...everything >from research machines that measured how much food cattle consume, to, I guess, Traffo-Data devices. I think anyone of these devices would become a museum piece. I would like to find a list of such devices, to keep a look-out for them, as they may be disappearing quickly. I have an old line-printer burried in my mini-storage, which is supposed to have that chip. I opened it up to look, a few years ago, and it did have a white chip, which ressembled the 4004 chip that I saw on display in the Intel Museum in Santa Clara, however, unlike the one in the museum, this chip had no writing on it. I also know a man who says he has an old printer with a 4004 chip in it. (He says his sister is still using it, and doesn't want to give it up just now. But I think he is really saying she doesn't want to give it up at all.) Anybody know any more printers or other devices with the 4004 chip? ---Mark Metzler ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Special clipart offer: http://orders.xoom.com/email

27 years, 5 months

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modern removable media drives

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, 14 November 1998 13:59 Subject: Re: modern removable media drives >> I can relate to that. I have an RA81 here that sounds like fingernails on a >> blackboard when it runs, but still works perfectly. I can still boot VMS > >A screech on an RA81 needn't be a headcrash, or in fact anything in the >HDA. Motor bearings, Pretty sure it's not a head crash, platter spindle bearing gone dry I'd say. >and even cooling fans can make some pretty nasty noises. And they're a lot easier to fix >(often a drop of oil) than HDA problems. Without a doubt. PC power supply, and increasingly, CPU cooling fans also suffer from this disease. There is a big problem with cpu cooling fans in that sometimes they fail without making noises, and the user is blissfully unaware his cpu is having a meltdown. Screeching power supply fans are becoming a significant amount of my work on older systems. Cheers Geoff Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 5 months

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Minimum hardware requirements (Was: Old, but not "Classic"

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Very rarely you see a cached 386sx boards. I have once or twice, Cached SX is an oxymoron. They are cheap and handy. Often speed is not a requirement, just being able to is enough more often than not. < But 386sx still have no HP oomph even running netscape 3.x is like < watching the frozen molsses flow even with 10MB ram. It's not that bad unless you used to PII/300 as your standard. Watching 3.0 run on a 8088/4.77 with a st225...that's slow! < > Acrobat, runs on any 386 and maybe lower. Unfortunatly it's so damm b < > and slow that it's painful even on high end 486s! < < No no... is there other programs that can read the PDF besides < Adobe's? That's the key. I've used Ghostscript for that but that's bulky as Acrobat too and slower. < Hey, I was able to find bunches of 486 w/o cpu but has cache < chips boards and many all in one for 386dx or 486 at 5 CDN each. Cheap is better even 486sx beats a 386dx for the same clock as the 486sx still has a small (4 or 8k) internal cache. < > Gads no. I have a 386sx/16 (intel inboard PC) that can march circles < > around any 286. That has to be the most handicapped 386 around. < < May not be good comparsion because many low end boards often have < no cache. That board of yours must have cache which "breaks" out of < that group to between 20 to 25mhz range uncached. Can you find any < cache on yours? The 386inboard PC does not have cache. It's designed to replace the 8088 in an XT. < True...but I don't want to wear out those drives from all that < seeking, used ram is cheap, try to pile up on that one much as you < can afford. Ram is faster than any drives by long run. DRAM is not cheap. Around here 30pin simms stack up like this 256kx9 free to $1.00 each, 1mx9 $1-3$, 4mx9 $10-15 (if you can find them). It's a local thing. I can get 32mb 72 pin simms for less than the equivalent in 30 pin simms. I do use the seperate swap disk on most of my systems even VAXen as heads take time to move and if the disk is even 50% full the travel time from the current spot to the swap area can be pretty long. A swap drive can be smaller and if it's one that has a lot of heads switching heads is faster than moving them so it's cheap speed even where there is a lot of ram. It can also buy disk space on the main drive. I used to use a 486dx2/50 with a 528mb disk some of the graphic stuff (CADD) needed big swap space to make up for only 8mb of ram so the swap space ate 24mb of an already cramped disk. Putting in a small 60mb drive as D: solved several problems and also allowed me to put a infrequently used temp directory there. I've been one to squeeze older hardware for their best performance and generally I do get a better system often more stable than the previous owner would believe. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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modern removable media drives

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>If we began to discuss the agents that can *actually* destroy data >on floppies or other media, as opposed to what urban legend and >"conventional wisdom" maintains as dangerous, that would be fun! Two categories come to mind: 1. Something that physically or chemically removes or obscures the magnetic media. Gouging or scraping off the oxide coating qualifies, as does a chemical strong enough that it will dissolve the binder holding the oxide to the disk. Dust, hair, pepsi, and organge juice are generally too weak to do the damage necessary to prevent using the floppy (after cleaning, of course!). Aluminum oxide will do it :-). 2. Magnetic fields that are strong enough to overcome the coercivity of the media. I find that refrigerator magnets, in direct contact with low-density media (i.e. 5.25" 360Kbyte disks) will usually result in some bad sectors. With higher-density media, which has a higher coercivity, refrigerator magnets aren't strong enough in my experience. And unless you put the floppy in direct physical contact with the magnets in a PM motor or speaker, you aren't going to cause any damage. (I've worked with floppies and hard drives in close proximity to multi-Tesla cryogenic superconducting magnets without any problems, so speakers and motors don't scare me!) Tim.

27 years, 5 months

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slashdot

by dwollmann＠ibmhelp.com

Just thought I'd let you all know that I posted info on this list and the one at nut.net to slashdot. There seem to be quite a few old hackers hanging around there, so I expect several will subscribe. -- David Wollmann DST / DST Data Conversion ICQ: 10742063 http://www.ibmhelp.com/ Information on Open Source(TM) software: http://www.opensource.org/

27 years, 5 months

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EGA on Windows for Workgroups 3.11

by pechter＠shell.monmouth.com

> From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Date: Saturday, 14 November 1998 10:11 > Subject: Minimum hardware requirements (Was: Old, but not "Classic" > > > >On Fri, 13 Nov 1998, Charles Oblender wrote: > >> I've seen a 286 that ran Windows 3.0 pretty well. > > > >An 8088 XT will run Windows 3.00 > in real mode, yes, have a friend who still has one > with it installed. > > >An 80286 AT can also do 3.10 > and 3.11 as well. In Standard mode. > Again, a friend has an NEC compatible with 6mb of ram > and Win 3.11 installed. Works pretty well actually. > > >An 80386SX can do Windoze95 > > > I have done this. It does work. But it is VERY slow. > Microsoft don't recommend it, since 95 is optimised for > 32 bit all the way. But it's possible, if you are a masochist. > > >3.0 can run with CGA. > > 3.x (.0 .1 &.11) can use EGA, CGA and even Hercules, I've done the EGA & > CGA, not > tried Hercules, but the drivers are on Microsofts Windows 3.x Driver library > site. > > >3.10 SUPPOSEDLY can use the 3.0 CGA drivers, but they don't always work; > > Seems to be card dependent. But it does work on many. > > >3.1 therefore needs EGA > >I've never tried below VGA for Windoze95 > > EGA is allegedly possible, but I've never tried it. I believe it involves > using 3.x drivers or some other ugliness. But it is supposed to be possible. Sure works here. I've also used Hercules drivers with Windows For Workgroups. This got TCP/IP and the internet up on a 386SX 25 here. Use old OLD 1.x netscape. I'm not sure if 2.0 works with less than VGA. V1.x did just fine. I actually put in a Mono-VGA card from Paradise that lets me use the EGA driver and runs fairly well. I like it better than the old mono driver I had tried. The trick is there's no Windows For Workgroups RLE logo for non-vga... but I pulled the 3.0 logo from my 3.0 set and used that instead after I got tired of seeing the blank screen at startup time. The logo's concatinated with the binary to make the win.com file. I don't believe you can run Win95 the same way... on 3.x drivers. Bill

27 years, 5 months

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Fw: Comodore 64

by fauradon＠pclink.com

Anybody can help this fellow? Respond to him directly. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon/ -----Original Message----- From: M. Amjad Masood <mamjad(a)batelco.com.bh> Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 7:14 AM Subject: Comodore 64 I have commodore64. Not in use for number of years. now unable to locate agent in Bahrain or in Pakistan. Pls let me know postal address to get my computer updating, parts, software information. what help kyou can extend. Tks - Majied

27 years, 5 months

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Minimum hardware requirements (Was: Old, but not

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Well, Linux comes with ghostscript, which I think can do PDFs. And it runs just fine on my LTE/Lite with 6 MB RAM (though it takes half an hour to open a file). Actually, I doubt there is much variance, PDF is not the most compact format in the world, especially when people use it for charts and stuff. I mean, it gives good results, but it would make life a lot easier if every link to "View specifications..." did not lead to "Download specifications in portable Adobe (PDF) format \n Download free Adobe Acrobat (PDF) viewer here!" every single time. >No no... is there other programs that can read the PDF besides >Adobe's? That's the key. >Jason D. >email: jpero(a)cgocable.net >Pero, Jason D. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 5 months

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Minimum hardware requirements (Was: Old, but not "Classic"

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< True and that is only windows itself! To be realatisc, 12~16MB and 8-12mb is more like it. some less. < nearly all websites demands at least netscape 3.x. That is where If you want a viewer. If you want something to read text there les less problem. < this made any 286 and 386sx to throw their trowels in. Cached 386DX 386s run ok but it's not going to be fast. < IE's but problem is how can one can read the PDF files? I have this < problem for my low end machines but what program I can view those < PDF's? I read them nearly daily. Acrobat, runs on any 386 and maybe lower. Unfortunatly it's so damm big and slow that it's painful even on high end 486s! < memory simm slots and better support of IDE, don't have to be < over 504MB, drives due to user-defineable and no need for The 504MB boundary has never been a problem for me! It's a dos problem but win31 seems to have no problem. < setup disks, usually. Everything is easily found, working, used < and. cheaply. Cheap, the key word. < Don't bother the win95 on anything lesser than 386DX 40, L2 cache < and up with more than 16MB, good HD. CPU hungry, ram hungry and < count on users download their favorites and quickly discover mistake < if they didn't follow this specs I listed. Subbing cached 386dx 40 < for cached 486 or mayble low end pentium types with good hd is best < option, but still needs some type of accelerated video card to keep < scrolling around confortable and sane. w95 on most is a waste. < win98 is out it needs at least 32MB and weighs in at 200MB installed < without anything extra just full configured win98 itself, loves < accelerated video cards, 1< GB, at least DX4 100 and up with W98 doesn't warrent unless you actually *need* it. < The 8088/8086 is very weak CPU even it really strains gobbing and < processing dir requests (watch the HD light blinks, in off states < between flashes, it's cpu is what doing the processing work!) It's slow that's all. A 286 or 386 at sub 8mhz is pretty poor too! < But remember 286 boards often are found with 1 or 2MB max and < many have SIPPS sockets, and very few actually have 8 SIMMS < slots, 4 slots being common. Biggest problem. < 286 and 386sx runs about the same in < lockstep in performance wise. 386DX 16, 20 is tagging in and just Gads no. I have a 386sx/16 (intel inboard PC) that can march circles around any 286. That has to be the most handicapped 386 around. Also another area where perfomance can be bought is getting MFM drive out of the box, generally they are slow. IDE drives are generally faster and even in an 8088 box the difference is noticeable going from a 1002xa/ST251 pair to an IDEadaptor/miniscribe 41mb. Another area in the 286 and up machines is putting a low end 512k VGA in if possible and for the 386 and up a 1-2m VESA or local bus can really have an impact on winders perfomance. A lot of the older board the cpu is not maxed out but the bus is the funnel your trying to push it through so any improvement in the peripheral area is notable. Oh, one trick I've ussed for even the sluggiest 386s under winders is to have a small 40-80mb drive as D: and put the winders swap files there it does make a difference when you swapping hard. Saves time moving the head. Using a second IDE interface at the secondary address helps some too. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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Computer History Bookstore

by mark_metzler＠xoommail.com

Sam, I forked out $300 for the transparent Mac Portable. All the feedback I got from the Mac Usenet conferences is that its a really rare item, so I don't regret spending that much on it. I don't doubt that I could sell it on ebay instantly for much more. But I've never sold anything, just bought and held on to them. I've been collecting for about 8 years (I know, that makes me a Newbie :) ) I've been hitting the Foothills College swap meet for 5 or 6 years, but now there is too much competition. 3 years ago, I was able to pick up an IMSAI 8080 chasis with cards for only $5, and all the S-100's I could load into my truck. Now I can't find anything. --- Mark Metzler VON NEUMANN MACHINES Online Computer History Bookstore/Museum http://home.pacbell.net/mmetzler/vnm.html ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Special clipart offer: http://orders.xoom.com/email

27 years, 5 months

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modern removable media drives

by mbg＠world.std.com

Dan Burrows wrote: >I will have to check the total model info and what hard drives are in >them. I have 4 to 6 complete chassis but no controllers. I don't even >know what they are supposed to use for a controller. Then to I may have >the controller and don't even know it.:) There were a couple of different controllers, depending on the option type. I know of at least two qbus controllers, one for the DSD-880/20, and one for one of the other DSD models. I'll have to check the controller I have, but I seem to remember a set of blue handles, a 20-pin (or so) connector, and a dip chip which was actually fuse-type links which you would break or leave alone depending on the configuration. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 5 months

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Computer History Bookstore

by mark_metzler＠xoommail.com

Yeah, I'm the one that bought the transparent Mac Portable. I found Sam Ismail's phone # in the pouch of the case, so he must have been the one that the vendor desribed as 'jumping up and down with anger' that someone bought it before him. Sorry Sam! I live about 3 hours drive from San Jose, but I make trips there regularly to collect computers. ...Mark Metzler ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Special clipart offer: http://orders.xoom.com/email

27 years, 5 months

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modern removable media drives

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

>Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 01:23:05 +0000 (GMT) I'm sure that when dust gets between the head and the disk, it makes a bit of oxide chip off due to friction. > >For one thing, a floppy drive head is in contact with the media - it >doesn't fly. And thus it can't crash. > >Now a lot of dust will increase head/disk wear, of course/ > >> or smoke particles can and will cause head crashes on winchester drives. >> >> I am not a technical expert on the innards of Iomega Jaz and Syquest SyJet >> and Sparq drives. However, a casual examination suggests that they use >> winchester technology. This is consistent with the manufacturers descriptions > >I did open up the disk housing (I almost called it an HDA) of an old >10Mbyte (I think, maybe 5 Mbyte) Syquest. This thing was very much like a >winchester, but there was a recirculation filter inside. So I guess it >was better than nothing. Is this what you said earlier was the only undocumented part of your AT? What do you use now? > >Yep, and they still are. I've got a Seagate 1.3Gbyte drive here that's >very dead, and there is a little fliter inside the HDA at one corner. I >assume some of the air goes through it... > Also, newer drives spin faster, don't they? This would cause more damage when a head goes too low. > >Possibly higher density -> lower flying height -> more likely to crash on >smal dust particles. > >> Eric > >-tony > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 5 months

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On-topic Headcrash story..

by franke＠sbs.de

> Anyway, my expensive 3Com server began to 'whistle' at about > 10kHtz one day, and by the next morning it was screeching and > warbling and quite obviously dying quickly. While it *was* backed up > (the entire sales and marketing division was running in those 300 > MBytes) I still had throughput goals to achieve, so I got the 3Com > tech-rep out. By the time he arrived people were coming in my office > to see what that awful noise was... I couldn't believe it was still > *spinning*... let alone reading and writing. > "Yup." He said. "No problem.." > It was the absolute filter in the top cover of the drive. They > offered to fix it... not under warranty!!! because it was not > mis-performing... just annoying the hell out of all and sundry. :) Reminds me of the good old BASF 13 MB hard disk drive. Around 1983 BASF, successfull in producing floppies also tried to get a foot into the strong climbing hard disk market. So, they designed a nice 5,25" half height 13 MB drive (funny sidefact: the heady where moved thru a metal band mechanism, able to be turned buy a plastic wheel from the outside - so you could just positionate the head by hand .... or atatch a paper clip to get a head position meter :). These drives had a small spring atatched to the spindle (from outside - the turning end of the spindle could be touched) for grounding. And now and then this spring starts to give a high sound. Official solution: a drop of oil ... So, next time when you give your car new oil, save some for your vintage hard drive :) Gruss hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 5 months

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What is a Motorola Exorset ?

by Innfogra＠aol.com

Joe; This was Motorola's early 8 bit development system. I had one several years ago. As you noticed similar but not S100. Used for the development of 68XX systems. I may have a card or two left. It did use two 5 1/4' full height floppys in a small desktop box. Paxton

27 years, 5 months

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Minimum hardware requirements (Was: Old, but not "Classic"

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, 14 November 1998 15:46 Subject: Re: Minimum hardware requirements (Was: Old, but not "Classic" >What you had there was as I recall one of the first commercial >platforms to run Xenix, Hmm, doubtless worthy of preservation. Actually, now that I think about it, I think it was Xenix it ran. But I know I saw SCO mentioned in it somewhere. >The Altos 486 was so called because it supported 4 users on an '86. Ok, that explains the name, anyway. Thanks for that. Cheers Geoff Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 5 months

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What is a Motorola Exorset ?

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I picked up some more odd-ball manuals. One of the ones that I got is for the Motorola EXORset 30 XDOS Operating System. From the description in the introduction, the system appears to be a development system with two SS 5 1/4" floppy drives and 16K of RAM. Is anyone familar with this system? Anyone need the manuals? Hmmm. Just found a couple of more manuals for this. These manuals are for a GPIB card and an Input Output card. Lots of schematics and hardware descriptions in these manuals. The pictures show large cards similar to S-100 cards but with 86 contacts. The descriptions mention 8" discs containing 6809 code. Joe

27 years, 5 months

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What is a Motorola Exorset ?

by franke＠sbs.de

> I picked up some more odd-ball manuals. One of the ones that I got is for > the Motorola EXORset 30 XDOS Operating System. From the description in the > introduction, the system appears to be a development system with two SS 5 > 1/4" floppy drives and 16K of RAM. Is anyone familar with this system? > Anyone need the manuals? I have a EXORset over here. Its a huge unit with two 8" FD drives. Very variable due completly based on cards. Mine has 64 K of mem. The system was intended to be used as 68xx development system for Motorola products, but I've also seen an 8080 Assembler :) Gruss hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 5 months

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Minimum hardware requirements (Was: Old, but not "Classic"

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: John Ruschmeyer <jruschme(a)exit109.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, 14 November 1998 11:57 Subject: Re: Minimum hardware requirements (Was: Old, but not "Classic" >> it would be wonderful to have an OS that multitasks with no >> problem on an 8086. I saw a strange machine here a couple weeks ago. It was called an Altos 486, and a guy brought it into the shop because it had a password and he couldn't get past it. He thought it was a 486 PC obviously, but when he brought it in, he brought a serial terminal in with it! When we eventually fired it up, it turned out to be running SCO Unix (somewhat trimmed!) on an 8086, with (I think) 512k of RAM. It also had z80's on there, port controllers I think. Evidently it multitasked pretty well, it had 4 terminal ports and was bundled with a business package, that did debtors & creditors, stock control and word processing etc. I'm trying to get him to part with it. The guy is about smart enough to turn on a light switch without written instructions, but I tried teaching him enough about it to make it useable for his (very) simple purposes (just some record keeping) but it was a hopeless cause. I'm going to do up an old 386 with a VGA monitor and see if he'll swap it for the Altos. Seems he bought it at auction (thought it was a pc because it said 486) for A$40. Anybody here got any more info on it? Couldn't find a date on the machine itself, but the chips seem to be circa 1979. The terminal was also an Altos and was ansi/vt100 based. It also had a Wyse 50 term with it. Cheers Geoff Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 5 months

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modern removable media drives

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>There was a ST3144A that liberally screamed in loud howling noise >when it went through it's death throes. At a lab I once worked at, a Fuji 2284 (14") drive in the computer room developed bad bearings and started screeching. We call System Industries field service, they log into the disk control unit remotely via a modem, check the error logs, and tell us there's nothing wrong :-) Tim.

27 years, 5 months

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On-topic Headcrash story..

by jpl15＠netcom.com

In '86 (in another life) I was a Systems Analyst for the deregulated side of GTE... I was also the MIS department, the LAN cable stringer-crimper, and I got to explain RS-232 to ex-PBX salespeople who trying to make a buck in the Brave New World... Anyway, my expensive 3Com server began to 'whistle' at about 10kHtz one day, and by the next morning it was screeching and warbling and quite obviously dying quickly. While it *was* backed up (the entire sales and marketing division was running in those 300 MBytes) I still had throughput goals to achieve, so I got the 3Com tech-rep out. By the time he arrived people were coming in my office to see what that awful noise was... I couldn't believe it was still *spinning*... let alone reading and writing. "Yup." He said. "No problem.." It was the absolute filter in the top cover of the drive. They offered to fix it... not under warranty!!! because it was not mis-performing... just annoying the hell out of all and sundry. Two whiny childish tantrums later... I got a new drive, which poor me had to format and restore to... all one Saturday... it was apparently a common problem w/that particular line of (Seagate??) drives. Cheers John

27 years, 5 months

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modern removable media drives

by dburrows＠netpath.net

> >Actually, I wouldn't mind one... > >As for docs.. I have the DSD-880/20 manual. If that would help, I'll >make a copy of it for you... > I will have to check the total model info and what hard drives are in them. I have 4 to 6 complete chassis but no controllers. I don't even know what they are supposed to use for a controller. Then to I may have the controller and don't even know it.:) Dan

27 years, 5 months

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modern removable media drives

by mbg＠world.std.com

>I have a few DSD880's here if you need one. I have no docs but would >like to get some if you managed to hang on to a copy. Actually, I wouldn't mind one... As for docs.. I have the DSD-880/20 manual. If that would help, I'll make a copy of it for you... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 5 months

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Computer History Books

by mark_metzler＠xoommail.com

I have opened a combination online computer history bookstore, and computer museum. I need help identifying an unknown IBM vacuum tube device. http://home.pacbell.net/mmetzler/vnm.html ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Special clipart offer: http://orders.xoom.com/email

27 years, 5 months

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modern removable media drives

by dburrows＠netpath.net

I have a few DSD880's here if you need one. I have no docs but would like to get some if you managed to hang on to a copy. Dan dburrows(a)netpath.net >When I was working in the RT-11 development group at Digital, I >had a DSD-880. This was an RL02-lookalike and an RX02-lookalike. >But where true RX01s and RX02s from Digital didn't actually write >formatting information, this unit could. > >I also had a floppy disk which was mounted on the side of a >file cabinet using a large ring magnet (as is found in some >DEC disk drives). People always figured it was a bad disk >until I took it off the cabinet, put it in the DSD880, formatted >it (for real) and then used it under RT before putting it back >on the cabinet... > >It was just fun to see their eyes when I told them it was still >usable... > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ >| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | >| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | >| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | >| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | >| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | >| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ >

27 years, 5 months

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Minimum hardware requirements (Was: Old, but not "Classic"

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< 3.0 can run with CGA. It does, or at least mine does. < 3.10 SUPPOSEDLY can use the 3.0 CGA drivers, but they don't always work; < 3.1 therefore needs EGA Error! my 3.1 kit (circa 1992) has both CGA and VGA3.0 drivers along with about 15 others. I've used it with Mono, Herc, CGA, VGA. < I don't know what the mimimum RAM requirements are, but my 486 NEC lapto < can only handle "safe mode". (It has a hardware problem that prevents < upgrading the memory) For 3.1 it wants 2.0mb but I've run it on a 50Z with 1mb! For a useable system 4-8mb is the minima based not on winders itself but the apps you plan to run. Netscape(v3.0) in less than 8mb tends to crash Intermittently but with 12mb is rock solid. It will not even start up unless you have 5mb! < NB: MINIMUM requirements are NOT to be confused with RECOMMENDED < configuration. Particularly when it gets to issues of "acceptable < performance". True, also some apps may have their own want list that exceeds the minima by a lot. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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modern removable media drives

by franke＠sbs.de

>> Before there where capsulated 'Winchester' type drives >> mainframes relied on removable disk stacks wit technology >> #1. Of course these had air filtration etc., but the stacks > Are you sure? On _all_ the demountable drives I have here (DEC and CDC), > the heads fly over the disk surface. They are not at a mechanically fixed > height, like on a drum. In other words, they are like #2, not #1. > I would be _very_ suprised if you could make a demountable drive where > you could remove the platter and put it back and get the position right > to 100 microns or so. That's why the head position has to be set by the > platter - i.e. the heads fly. I cant speak for any drive, but some 19 years back (1979) I've been working as a field technican for SIEMENS mainframe computers and head adjustment has been one of the most complex issues. Althrough air flow had influence, the main adjustment was done by *hard*ware. No way a fixed mounted head on a thight fited mounting could move seperatly ... and the fingers and mountings had a weight of several kilogramms :) Servus Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 5 months

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modern removable media drives

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com <CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, 14 November 1998 12:12 Subject: Re: modern removable media drives >>There was a ST3144A that liberally screamed in loud howling noise >>when it went through it's death throes. > >At a lab I once worked at, a Fuji 2284 (14") drive in the computer >room developed bad bearings and started screeching. We call >System Industries field service, they log into the disk control >unit remotely via a modem, check the error logs, and tell us >there's nothing wrong :-) I can relate to that. I have an RA81 here that sounds like fingernails on a blackboard when it runs, but still works perfectly. I can still boot VMS off it. I do so occasionally, just to see if it has died yet. Needless to say, it's not in active use otherwise. Cheers Geoff Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 5 months

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Old, but not "Classic"

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< > technologies. (FWIW, I found out that zip drives uses shappire < > bearings to carry the heads, that is from newsgroups so don't take < < Is there any particular problem with jewelled bearings? Watchmakers have < been using them for centuries, and the methods of making and installing < them are well known and documented. They been used in analog meter movements of quality for over 40 years and I've repaird them. Not much majik. They are a good precision low friction bearing. However I doubt they would be used in a ZIP as they never had a good reputation for shock resistance. they would however be low drag and help conserve power. Allison

27 years, 5 months

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Computer History Books

by Innfogra＠aol.com

You might ask Paul Pierce, who has an IBM Tube Mainframe if he could recognize the tube set you have. His URL is http://www.teleport.com/~prp/collect/index.html Good luck in your search. Paxton Hoag

27 years, 5 months

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A sign made of a vertical line of LEDs?

by franke＠sbs.de

>> Several times in the past I've seen home-brewed and perhaps >> CPU-driven signs that consist of a single vertical line of >> perhaps a dozen or two LEDs. > This has been done a number of times. One of the early electronic magazines > had a clock that you needed to scan your eyes over to read the time. A > friend of mine designed a pendulum for an art show with the LED section > about 6 feet long or so where graphics could be displayed. I don't recall a > name ever being associated with this type of display. It would be a > *really* fun thing to do now that multicolor LEDs are available and a full > color graphics unit could be done fairly "easily". Basicly the same Idea has been used for a 3D display. A 2D matrix of LEDs wil be moved fast forward and back, and the LEDs are fired right in time to give a 3D picture. It's even available in colour. But it is only visible when you are in front of the display, so it's mor like a 3D monitor, since you cant walk around. (A different aproach, but somewhat similar, works with a spiral up winding acryl plate on a rotating dish. A Laser highlightens points within this cylindical volume to produce a picture. Since the acrylic surface is spiral, the laser can reach every 3D point with the same angle - the beam comes from above or beyond). Gruss hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 5 months

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Old, but not "Classic"

by charlesii＠nwonline.net

classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu wrote: > > On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Marvin wrote: > > > I frequently get given 286 and 386 computers as well as hearing about people > > that are just throwing them away. Does anyone else on this list try to find > > homes for these things, or know of homes? It seems such as waste to throw > > out perfectly good computers just because they don't run the current rage of > > the day. > > Many cities have computer recycling centers where they take PCs that can > run Windows, refurbish them, and then donate them to schools. Notice I > said "can run Windows". Unfortunately, anything that doesn't fit this > definition is foreign to them. So you'll have to find a practical > application for 286's. > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com > I've seen a 286 that ran Windows 3.0 pretty well. Charles

27 years, 5 months

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This is totally off topic

by franke＠sbs.de

>>>BTW, anybody know where there might be a dusty Picaso lying around >>>someplace? > Try the Louvre in Paris, I'm certain you'll find several works by > Piccaso. We had some hanging around on Marienplatz some years ago, but I think nobody wanted them ... Gruss hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 5 months

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modern removable media drives

by mbg＠world.std.com

> my experience. And unless you put the floppy in direct physical > contact with the magnets in a PM motor or speaker, you aren't > going to cause any damage. (I've worked with floppies and hard > drives in close proximity to multi-Tesla cryogenic superconducting > magnets without any problems, so speakers and motors don't scare > me!) When I was working in the RT-11 development group at Digital, I had a DSD-880. This was an RL02-lookalike and an RX02-lookalike. But where true RX01s and RX02s from Digital didn't actually write formatting information, this unit could. I also had a floppy disk which was mounted on the side of a file cabinet using a large ring magnet (as is found in some DEC disk drives). People always figured it was a bad disk until I took it off the cabinet, put it in the DSD880, formatted it (for real) and then used it under RT before putting it back on the cabinet... It was just fun to see their eyes when I told them it was still usable... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 5 months

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A sign made of a vertical line of LEDs?

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Several times in the past I've seen home-brewed and perhaps >CPU-driven signs that consist of a single vertical line of >perhaps a dozen or two LEDs. > >The "sign" doesn't appear to be anything but a line of glowing LEDs. >Only when you view it at a glance, as your vision moves quickly >from side-to-side, do you see that it is rapidly flickering the ?vertical scanlines of a simple dot-matrix image: maybe the digits >of the time, perhaps a smiley face, or some other simple image. I don't know the name of it... but I remember that there was some sort of a contest a few years ago... Contestants were provided a number of items and had to build a display. The winning design had some sort of saw-blade which was moved by use of an electromagnet. The vertical set of LEDs would display the lines which comprised a character, and the saw-blade was moved back and forth in synch in such a way that when vieing the reflection of the LEDs in the shiny surface of the moving blade, one could make out characters. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 5 months

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modern removable media drives

by cswiger＠wilma.widomaker.com

>::> If we began to discuss the agents that can *actually* destroy data >::> on floppies >:: >::I find that scissors work well. > >Two words: paper shredder. Microwave oven - haven't actually tried it but does wonders for CD's Chuck cswiger(a)widomaker.com

27 years, 5 months

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A sign made of a vertical line of LEDs?

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Several times in the past I've seen home-brewed and perhaps CPU-driven signs that consist of a single vertical line of perhaps a dozen or two LEDs. The "sign" doesn't appear to be anything but a line of glowing LEDs. Only when you view it at a glance, as your vision moves quickly >from side-to-side, do you see that it is rapidly flickering the vertical scanlines of a simple dot-matrix image: maybe the digits of the time, perhaps a smiley face, or some other simple image. Anyone here know the name of this sort of device, so I can web-search for others who've made one? It wouldn't be hard to craft. To be obliquely on-topic, I've thought about making a simple circuit that would be driven by the parallel port of an old PC. - John

27 years, 5 months

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Sun workstation

by cswiger＠wilma.widomaker.com

List: This may not fit the >10 year old criterion, but just spotted an ad in a local trading paper Sun workstation, 19" color monitor, works great $150 obo details at 11 Chuck cswiger(a)widomaker.com

27 years, 5 months

1
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Compaq portable questions (not laptop)

by rhblake＠bigfoot.com

I have recently obtained a machine that when carried resembles a sewing machine in a carry case, marked Compaq Portable. It has a built in CRT and is evidentally an 8088 or 8086 machine judging by the 8 bit slots. Anyone have any info on it, and is there any collectability to these? I'm in the process of cleaning and repairing it but I will inevitably NOT keep it for myself due to space limits and am putting out feelers on the list first for possible buyers/traders. I don't expect a lot out of it, mostly what I have in it ($25) unless I have to put a lot of parts or work into it, which I doubt since it appears to be semi-working at the moment. I'll probably put it on ePay around the 20th once I get it functional and get no apparent responses. Any info or prospects appreciated.

27 years, 5 months

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Compaq portable questions (not laptop)

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 02:05 PM 11/12/98 -0800, you wrote: >At 05:23 PM 11/12/98, you wrote: >> There was also a Portable III. I have five of them!! They're a little >>larger than a lunch box and have a 12 MHz 286 CPU and a fold out gas plasma >>screen. They have a place for a MODEM on an ISA card in the bottom of the >>case. And a place for a memory expansion card that held up to six SIMMs. >>The SIMMS that were available were 256K or 1 meg so you could have up to 6 >>Megs & 640K of memory. There was an option to add a box on the back that >>contained an 8 bit and a 16 bit ISA slots. Mine have the box with the ISA >>card slots and I use them for portable instrument controllers. > >Did they market a Portable III to 386 upgrade kit? I've got a Portable III >with a 386-20 (well, now a 486slc-40) in it, but it still has the III on >the case and the XT-style keyboard. I'm not aware of a 386 or 486 upgrade kit, but They use a weird board in them so if your's has a 386 then it almost certainly had to have come from Compaq. BTW the PIII came with two different styles of keyboards. Joe

27 years, 5 months

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modern removable media drives

by franke＠sbs.de

>> And dust particles will work like sandpaper and grind the >> disk surface > Which is why the inside of the disk jacket has material to sweep up > dust and keep it from the disk surface. Sometimes this works. > Geez, people, I never claimed that you could dump huge piles of dust, smoke, > dirt, and sand on the floppy disk and expect it to work for more than five > seconds. My point was that you don't have to be super-careful with them. One > dust particle isn't going to ruin the disk (at least not very quickly). You > don't have to handle floppy media in a cleanroom. However, one dust or smoke > particle *IS* enough to cause a head crash in a Winchester drive. I have even seen SyJet drives working within a heavy smokers environment - a friend of mine - he has ashes all around the desk, the keyboard and everywhere else. And the dam things are working prety good. > > there are 4 basic technologies for the head/surface > > management of disk Magnetic: > > > > 1. Fixed head over hard surface > > 2. Flying head over fixed surface (Winchester) > > 3. Fixed head over flexible surface (Bernulli) > > 4. Head grinding over flexible surface (Floppy) > > (also tapes go into #4 but since the head surface > > speed is only slow, the effekt is less visible) > Depends on the kind of tape. Helical scan tape has this effect > *MORE* than floppy drives, because the head-to-tape speed is much > higher. :))) to modern in data processing - I'll ignore them. Any tape with more than 1600 dpi isn't a tape to me :) >> And we are talking about 2 vs. 4 (head flying over hard >> surface vs. head on flexible surface). The other ones >> have been used in several drive types thru the past. And >> all in encapsulated (seled) and 'free' environment. > That's my point. The Syquest SyJet and Sparq drives, and the Iomgea > Jaz drive, appear to use what you have listed as configuration 2. > They have to, in order to get .75 to 1.0G density per platter. > Configuration 1 can't get the head close enough to the media. And even > if they did use configuration 1 and get the head close enough to the > media, then it would be just as susceptible to foreign particles as > configuration 2. They used #2 in the SyJet, since the problems are much bigger with #1. My experiance with any kind of high density media is that the process of insert and remove has to be done in a aprobiate manner. Like back in my operator times, the insertation of a Disk has just to be done carefuly and sensitive. And this is still true for any other modern removable media. > That's precisely why they are so f*&#ing unreliable. I just cant agree - I have several running without any problem. As I mentioned earler, I have almost any drive ever build from Syquest (and some other manufacturers), and I'm prety satisfied with Syquests. The only thin I learned to hate are MO drives. Once I had a 640 MB Sony drive, and it died 5 times and had to be replaced 5 times ... Later on I went back to pure magnetics. > Out of over 30 SyJet and Sparq drives, I don't think we've had a single > one last more than 100 cartridge insert/eject cycles. I son't know whats wrong, but I may just have had luck. Servus Hasn -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 5 months

1
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CompuCorp "Micro Computer"

by aknight＠mindspring.com

Hi, I haven't heard of a "Calcomp", but CompuCorp also made a line of desktop calculators (also marketed by Monroe, Dietzgen, and possibly others) that were offered in the early-mid 70's that had an optional punch-card reader that you plug into the back of the machine. I just obtained several of those card readers, cards, and the card holder & stylus (which are much like you described) and hope to have some photos of this stuff on my Web site soon. The CompuCorp calculators were designed such that you _had_ to use the punch-card reader to access all of the programming functions - while the machines were keyboard-programmable there were a lot of program codes that couldn't be entered directly from the keyboard. Also, so far I'm not aware of any CompuCorp desktop machines that had both display and printer as you describe. The Monroe 1655 that's on my Web page (also sold by CompuCorp as their model 122) is a nixie machine, and the 1765 I'm getting is a printing- only machine (with special surveyor's functions) with what looks to be a 16-column impact printer. Regards, Alex Calculator History & Technology Archive Web Page http://aknight.home.mindspring.com/calc.htm At 10:05 AM 11/13/98 -0500, Chuck wrote: >Hi Alex; > > Interesting site. I'm curious if you (or anyone else here) has >heard of a programmable calculator by, I beleive' "Calcomp". We had one >in high school in mid 70's - it came with an integrated printer, probably >about 40 columns, can't recall what the display was, maybe blue >flourescent, - and the interesting thing is you could program it with >punch cards. Once you code something, you put a card into a hand >held card punch holder that was a rubber backing with slots beneath >all the holes, and use a stylus to punch out the holes. Then you could >program it by feeding the cards into a little motorized reader plugged >into the Calcomp. > > That was my first programming experience which led to a lust >for Mark-8's and Altairs, etc. > > Chuck > cswiger(a)widomaker.com > > >

27 years, 5 months

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FREE DG Nova Stuff

by cswiger＠wilma.widomaker.com

From: Doug Yowza[SMTP:yowza@yowza.com] Subject: Re: FREE DG Nova Stuff >> I was scanning the web during lunch, and I came across a most >> interesting entry. Check this out... >> >> http://www.hopco.com/surplus/s_free.htm > >I tried to move quickly given that collectible-computer dealers are known >to lurk and strike based on these tips. Alas: > ><< >Unfortunately, you're a couple months late :( I've got to find time to >update that list and remove that stuff. This represented 20+years of Doh! Hopefully you at least educated them to spread the word about where to go with such dumpster gems like that next time? Once upon a time - while a field droid for NCR we used to maintain stuff based on their '605' mini-computer and had one in the shop to copy tapes and test boards (One of my grocery stores still used one with do-nut core memory in mid '85). Suddenly we got a new manager, suddenly the 605 was unceremoniously tossed into the dumpster. Any one of 5 or 7 techs would have gladly taken it home to their garage but nooooo, it was given an indecent burial in the name of 'fairness'. sniff-sniff Chuck cswiger(a)widomaker.com

27 years, 5 months

2
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modern removable media drives

by franke＠sbs.de

> I wrote about the problems with "modern" removable-rigid-media drives: >>> Air filters? Ha! They have nothing but a shutter on the cartridge and a >>> door flap on the drive. Absolute rubbish. It's miraculous that they work >>> even for a few weeks. > "Hans Franke" <franke(a)sbs.de> wrote: >> Dame has been said on 8" FD: These will be damaged within hours > Same? > No, no one with a grasp of how the technology works has ever claimed that a > little dust or smoke will damage a floppy disk or drive. Floppy disks use a > much different head/media interface than winchester rigid-media drives. Dust > or smoke particles can and will cause head crashes on winchester drives. And dust particles will work like sandpaper and grind the disk surface (we have a nice wording in German for that: FD are 'Spanabhebende Datenverarbeitung'. Datenverarbeitung means data provessing and spanabhebend is the term for a metal forming process thru producing fillings with using cutting tools like on a lathe :). Any material will degenerate the surface - and even in clean room condition, the head itself grinds the magnetic surface away. > I am not a technical expert on the innards of Iomega Jaz and Syquest SyJet > and Sparq drives. However, a casual examination suggests that they use > winchester technology. This is consistent with the manufacturers descriptions > of the drives in product literature, and it is also consistent with the > high failure rate I've observed (approaching 100% after four weeks on the > Syquest drives). Winchester drive technology was developed for permanently > sealed HDAs, not cartridge drives. And even the sealed drives were designed > with air filtration. Maybe to clear some things: We are not talking about 'Winchester' technology there are 4 basic technologies for the head/surface management of disk Magnetic: 1. Fixed head over hard surface 2. Flying head over fixed surface (Winchester) 3. Fixed head over flexible surface (Bernulli) 4. Head grinding over flexible surface (Floppy) (also tapes go into #4 but since the head surface speed is only slow, the effekt is less visible) And we are talking about 2 vs. 4 (head flying over hard surface vs. head on flexible surface). The other ones have been used in several drive types thru the past. And all in encapsulated (seled) and 'free' environment. Before there where capsulated 'Winchester' type drives mainframes relied on removable disk stacks wit technology #1. Of course these had air filtration etc., but the stacks itself have not been encapsulated at all time, especialy not air tight. The old Syquest 44s (and following) are using this technology (number 1), like back in the 60s to 80s on mainframes. The head surface distance is basicly fixed by the drive mechanic, althrough modern drives of this kind have some sort of control to adjust it. > Someone pointed out that he'd had no trouble with Syquest 230M drives; I've > personally had reasonable results with their earlier 44M and 88M 5.25 inch > drives. I don't what differences between the lower and higher capacity > drives accounts for the huge difference in reliability. I have used (and still use) the 44/88 drives over years without any failiure. the same with the 3 1/2" drives, So I've no reason to fight - instead I'm very sad that Syquest fades away. Gruss hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 5 months

7
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RK05 and hard disk filters

by pechter＠shell.monmouth.com

Now moving the topic from Zip drives to RK05's: In an earlier message Hans Franke wrote: >> You mean they _don't_ haev the proper air filters? Ouch. High density >> media needs a cleaner environment than the old RK05 units, and those have >> pretty serious filters in them. Well they (RK05's) don't use them much... I did service on a pair of RK05's in a Tektronics chip test unit that were installed and running (and under DEC Service) with the filters still CAPPED by the idiot who was the service tech there before me. (I was the next idiot, I don't know who Compaq's got as the current idiot.) 8-) They were still working 6 months to a year after the capped filter install which was probably the PM prior to my arrival on site. The RK05's were running VERY hot, but still running without errors (even under diags). Man, you couldn't kill those RK05's. I hit a head with a 1/4 inch bend on a disk and it kept running after I scraped the head with a penknife and alcohol to remove the scarred oxide. They flew those heads at about 10000 feet compared to the current disks. Now, 9766's (RM05's) flew a lot closer (even with the DEC high altitude heads installed). They needed to be kept clean. RP06's were less touchy and RM03's were just a nightmare. Give me tape drives (even TS11's and Tu45's) to work on over disks anytime. They don't get you up at 3am for a tape head crash. Bill

27 years, 5 months

2
1
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Daybreak hard drives (was Re: Collectibles for the future)

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

>Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:36:51 -0700 (MST) I feel bad for companies that replace junk for free. In a way, it's great support, but it also indicates that they expect this stuff to go bad. I almost never have hardware problems (some people fry their mobo every day), but floppy drives are definitely the least reliable of all modern PC technology (maybe next to monitors). >I'm curious. I've got 3 zip drives in use, and they've all performed flawlessly >except that the one in my PC croaked. I called them and they fed-exed me >a new one, and I sent them the old one. *shrug* >-- >Jim Strickland >jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? >----------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 5 months

4
4
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Old, but not "Classic"

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: jpero(a)pop.cgocable.net <jpero(a)pop.cgocable.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, 13 November 1998 11:21 Subject: Re: Old, but not "Classic" >win95 is too much for anything less than 486dx2, 500~1GB and 16MB plus. Not really, it depends on what you are doing with it. I have some 486SLC and DX 33 machines with 10 mb and 270Mb HDDs in the cafe here, happily running Win95, Ishare client (for the net) Netbeui & IPX protocol stacks with Netware (have a 3.12 Server here) and Microsoft network clients, Plus an assortment of Netscape/Agent/Mirc/BP FTP etc etc etc. They work pretty well, my customers will soon complain if they don't. I >Win98 needs new machines. Can't agree with that at all. I have had several P60's (yes the original 5v Pentiums) with 16mb and 408mb hdds running 98, Ishare with the Active Desktop and full IE4 suite running in the cafe here for up to 3 months. Never had an ounce of trouble with any of them. Again, it depends on what you are doing with it. >All 3.x, 95/98 must have cdrom drives, Highly desirable, though not essential if you have another machine who's cd it can share. Network cards are very cheap now, and a small lan is far cheaper to setup than retrofitting a CD rom. Footnote: The P60's I sold earlier had 32x cdroms and 16bit sound cards fitted when they were eventually sold to customers. Again, I've had none come back with problems. >too many hardware and software are on cds. Hardware on CD???? What sort of compression software does that!!! ;^) Cheers Geoff Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 5 months

3
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NEC Multisync (was Re: AcerStation)

by bpvh＠primenet.com

On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Max Eskin wrote: >Also: Could someone tell me the model number of the original NEC >Multisync? NEC's site has nothing about it, and I want to know if >that's it at the thrift store. Could someone also confirm that it >can do VGA modes? While surfing a while back, I came across the "NEC Technologies Knowledge Base". On my printouts, the address was: http://128.191.16.10/customersupport/finals/noncurrent.htm The MultiSync I (JC-1401P3A) is one of the monitors listed. The site has fairly good detail of the monitors in question. Under PC Compatibility, the monitor is listed as: 640 X 480: 56 to 62 Hz vertical refresh 800 X 560: 56 Hz vertical refresh I strictly an Apple IIgs man and do not have a clue what the above means, but maybe the site or info above could help. **** bpvh Internet: bpvh(a)primenet.com Delphi: BPVH **** **** Posted by an Apple IIgs using my own Proterm 3.1 Macro File ****

27 years, 5 months

1
0
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8-bit FORTH

by cswiger＠wilma.widomaker.com

From: dave dameron[SMTP:ddameron@earthlink.net] Subject: Re: 8-bit FORTH >>the right balance of control - not as terse as assembly, and >>not as handcuff'd as BASIC. >> >I found FORTH to be _more_ terse than any other language, except maybe >APL. >I tried a forth computer 80188 SBC with FORTH in EPROM (Used in the Ah, won't argue with that. As was pointed out, one loves or hates it, sometimes get branded a 'religion', uses the HP calc style 'reverse polish' stack, etc. I'm not aware of many 'killer apps' written in FORTH, it seems to live in real-time controllers, telescopes, etc. >they could write on a single line. Very difficult to read!!! >476#!@NXDUP&+ >(just joking) One of the points in the TIL book was you can make your language as custom and weird as you want - if you want '$' to mean 'add two numbers', go for it. Some places call that 'job security'. :> Chuck cswiger(a)widomaker.com

27 years, 5 months

1
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Saved Altair 4K BASIC

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

That seems sort of overpriced. I mean, 4 kilobytes of code for $150? Was this a reasonable price at the time, or were there similar programs for less? >Altair 4K BASIC - $150 > w/ purchase of an Altair 8800, 4K of Altair memory and > an Altair I/O board - $60 > >8K BASIC - $200 > w/ purchase - $75 > >Entended BASIC - $350 > w/ purchase - $150 > > >Altair PACKAGE ONE (assb, edit, monitor) - $175 > w/ purchase - $75 > >Altair DOS - $500 > w/ purchase - $150 > >Note: when ordering, specify paper tape or cassette. > > > > >Uh, is that a bootable paper tape ? > > > Chuck > cswiger(a)widomaker.com > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 5 months

5
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8-bit FORTH

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

At 09:42 AM 11/12/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Another project in the tapes is an 'OS' based on a Byte book called >'Threaded Interpretive Languages' - just curious what opionions >are out there about FORTH as an 8-bit os. It seemed like just >the right balance of control - not as terse as assembly, and >not as handcuff'd as BASIC. > I found FORTH to be _more_ terse than any other language, except maybe APL. I tried a forth computer 80188 SBC with FORTH in EPROM (Used in the "Radio-Elextronics" Robot - 1986, 1987), and never became a great fan. I quess partly is I knew people who had pride on how complicated a program they could write on a single line. Very difficult to read!!! 476#!@NXDUP&+ (just joking) -Dave

27 years, 5 months

1
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CompuCorp "Micro Computer"

by cswiger＠wilma.widomaker.com

From: Alex Knight[SMTP:aknight@mindspring.com] Subject: CompuCorp "Micro Computer" >guts of a couple of CompuCorp "Micro Computer" (at least >that's what _they_ called them) calculators on my >web site. They might weigh 3 1/2 pounds but some folks Hi Alex; Interesting site. I'm curious if you (or anyone else here) has heard of a programmable calculator by, I beleive' "Calcomp". We had one in high school in mid 70's - it came with an integrated printer, probably about 40 columns, can't recall what the display was, maybe blue flourescent, - and the interesting thing is you could program it with punch cards. Once you code something, you put a card into a hand held card punch holder that was a rubber backing with slots beneath all the holes, and use a stylus to punch out the holes. Then you could program it by feeding the cards into a little motorized reader plugged into the Calcomp. That was my first programming experience which led to a lust for Mark-8's and Altairs, etc. Chuck cswiger(a)widomaker.com

27 years, 5 months

1
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Updates to Secret Weapons of Commodore

by franke＠sbs.de

Cameron Kaiser: > * CHESSmate (thanks Martijn van Buul) -- contains 6530 RIOTs, for you KIM-1 freaks and from the page: > 6530 RIOT (identical to KIM-1; 64 bytes RAM, 1KB ROM, 2 I/O ports, 8-bit timer), > [...] > The 6530 RIOT chip is identical to the twin RIOTs in the KIM-1, a > custom multifunction chip developed by MOSTek originally for that > system though versions of the RIOT also appear in the Atari VCS. The > MOS 6532 is not compatible with the 6530, however, and the 6530 is > unfortunately no longer manufactured. 6530s have been used in several Commodore boxes. Especialy within FD units. But they are _not_ identical to any KIM-1 6530, same as the 6530s on the KIM are not identical - The CS logic is always specific to each of the Models (althrough some have used the same schema) and of course the ROM content differs. Also some versions used less CS lines to recover some I/O lines. The 6530 was also not a special developed for the KIM, the KIM is only the most visible device using it. The idea of the 6530 was to offer a solution for small designs used in lagre quantity products, where the Chipcount is esential, and an additional ROM will raise the cost - and since such products, at least at this time tends to use ROMS, a genuine ROM production run has to be done any way, the usage of an 6530 lowers the cost, since the production process is the same from the customers view than with a ROM. Also the 6532 is somewhat compatible - this schould be changed into 'not pin compatible'. But beside that - nice page - great work - thank you. Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 5 months

2
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Recent stuff I've acquired...

by karlm＠blitzen.canberra.edu.au

To add to my burgeoning collection, I must admit after joining this list I don't go past a 'second-hand' store without going in for a look :-) Over the last couple of weeks i've acquired.. * Various dumb terminals VT220's etc, some work some don't * An Apple IIc complete with monitor etc, now suitable modified with a 4-pin power plug to accomodate a PC 12v supply, and a DB-25 attached directly to the board for serial comms to my PC. Interestingly this IIc is an original motherboard, but with a Crystal hand-wired onto the board in place of the 74LS chip, thus avioding the IIc serial problem. I'll get around to documenting this mod soon, as I have not seen it anywhere. * A Mac+ suitable for conversion to a MacQuarium * A rather interesting Barcode reader/analyser with some form of microprocessor, an Intermec Trakker 9440, the Battery is totally dead, and I can't seem to find any info on the power supply voltage and as such haven't been able to power it up, but it's 10 years old (date 1988), at least I should be able to do something with the barcode wand. Anyone got any info on these? * A DEC TK50Z (found at the local recycling centre, and works fine) Cheers Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum(a)student.canberra.edu.au

27 years, 5 months

1
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DEC Equipment

by jrice＠texoma.net

I finally got to look at the old DEC equipment. There is a complete 11/780 system with several rl someting I assume are disk drives. This system is in several cabinets and is currently still cables together in a clean raised floor computer room. There are close to 100 pieces of VT220 terminals, some old ethernet hubs, some what I believe are old serial i/o hubs of some kind, dot matrix printers, printer/terminals like large old teletype machines, several older DEC laser printers like old HP laserjets, a large line printer like the old mainframe style. I will also probably get a PDP 11/34 in the near future. I'm not into DEC's but will act as a middleman for anyone who wants this stuff. Let me know, as I have to get it out of the plant pretty soon and I really don't have a lot of storage space. It is located about 60 miles north of Dallas. The PDP 11 is not ready to be released yet, the 11/780 is ready now. James

27 years, 5 months

1
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Old, but not

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

>Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 05:59:00 -0600 Well, I don't know. My school just trashed another 286 system that they could have given to somebody (we do loan 486s to students in need). A pretty interesting machine, to boot. It's still in the bin, but I didn't grab it because of lack of room. I did grab the 5 keyboards they threw away, though. Speaking of my school, it has some sort of 'modem' made by IBM. It has a brown front, and a 5.25" floppy drive. Several membrane type buttons on the front, too. Anyone know what it is? It connects the school attendance system to a server downtown, and I have yet to find out what that is. Maybe they'll let me play with it for a while if I ask :) Noone has any idea what model it is, but everyone says it's really old. >and does run Windows 3.11 very well. I have 2 machines here in the 286 class that >run Netscape (older version) under Windows 3.11 and have 4 mb of ram on a fair >sized hard disk (120mb). They're also PS/2's to boot. > >I believe Allison has a model 50Z (a 286 also) running Windows for her scanner. >The PC/XT class may be junkers for them though. > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 5 months

2
1
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Minimum hardware requirements (Was: Old, but not "Classic"

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, 14 November 1998 10:11 Subject: Minimum hardware requirements (Was: Old, but not "Classic" >On Fri, 13 Nov 1998, Charles Oblender wrote: >> I've seen a 286 that ran Windows 3.0 pretty well. > >An 8088 XT will run Windows 3.00 in real mode, yes, have a friend who still has one with it installed. >An 80286 AT can also do 3.10 and 3.11 as well. In Standard mode. Again, a friend has an NEC compatible with 6mb of ram and Win 3.11 installed. Works pretty well actually. >An 80386SX can do Windoze95 I have done this. It does work. But it is VERY slow. Microsoft don't recommend it, since 95 is optimised for 32 bit all the way. But it's possible, if you are a masochist. >3.0 can run with CGA. 3.x (.0 .1 &.11) can use EGA, CGA and even Hercules, I've done the EGA & CGA, not tried Hercules, but the drivers are on Microsofts Windows 3.x Driver library site. >3.10 SUPPOSEDLY can use the 3.0 CGA drivers, but they don't always work; Seems to be card dependent. But it does work on many. >3.1 therefore needs EGA >I've never tried below VGA for Windoze95 EGA is allegedly possible, but I've never tried it. I believe it involves using 3.x drivers or some other ugliness. But it is supposed to be possible. >I don't know what the mimimum RAM requirements are, but my 486 NEC laptop >can only handle "safe mode". (It has a hardware problem that prevents >upgrading the memory) >NB: MINIMUM requirements are NOT to be confused with RECOMMENDED >configuration. Particularly when it gets to issues of "acceptable >performance". This is the major impediment. Like the 386SX running 95. It worked, but it was such a slug that we put 3.11 back on it after 2 days of tinkering. That improved it's performance significantly. I have seen a 386DX40 running Win95. It was a little slow, but still useable. Cheers Geoff Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 5 months

2
1
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Old, but not "Classic"

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Yes, but in a desktop machine, power is not exactly short. In other word < whether it takes 0.1W or 10W to move the heads is not a major < consideration. So a jewelled bearing is probably not appropriate here. That is a consideration! Less power is less heating, less magnetic fields and higher reliability. Despite desktop power availablity reducing power in the servo circuit aids minaturization and reliability. < a meter movement. And secondly they are accurate - the spindle runs true < but a good metal bush bearing can do that as well. Neither are major < problems in a desktop servo-tracked disk drive. The bushed bearing also wears. Jewelled bearings done seem to have the same wear properties, they are far better. Allison

27 years, 5 months

1
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modern removable media drives

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< No, no one with a grasp of how the technology works has ever claimed tha < little dust or smoke will damage a floppy disk or drive. Floppy disks u < much different head/media interface than winchester rigid-media drives. < or smoke particles can and will cause head crashes on winchester drives Floppies with added dust will destroy the media and I've seen a few heads that were unserviceable. It's not healthy for the positioner either. The media does not tolerate dust. < of the drives in product literature, and it is also consistent with the < high failure rate I've observed (approaching 100% after four weeks on th < Syquest drives). Winchester drive technology was developed for permanen < sealed HDAs, not cartridge drives. And even the sealed drives were desi < with air filtration. The 270mb Syquest I have is used, the media is used and the current platter has been in the drive for a month without accumulating bad blocks. It former owner used it in a firld construction site to log sample data. It does have a recirculation filter and the spin up suggests that the heads are not loaded until the airflow (and platter speed) is established. There is not majik, spin a platter at 3600rpm and dust can be counted on to migrate to the walls. The cart has ribs to direct the airflow. Just because it has a shutter I don't use that an excuse to subject it to dust and other risks. Allison

27 years, 5 months

1
0
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modern removable media drives

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< And doesn't the RL02 have an air filtration system? Don't they do a pur < cycle when the catridge is loaded? They do but that means little if the cart has been in a dirty environment. The other I mentioned however are of the stack of patter realm. < Also, the RL02 does not use winchester technology per se. It is more < closely related to the RK, RM, and RP style drives. Subtle difference in positioners. the flying height was still very close to the platter. Allison

27 years, 5 months

1
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modern removable media drives

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< >>> On the other hand, I've had nothing but good luck with ZIP drives (w < >> I won't use zip drives either. I refuse to use an undocumented device < >> store my data. When somebody produces a service manual and a bit-leve < >> description of the disk (as I have for all my minicomputer drives) th < >> I'll consider it. I have a Syquest 270mb removable(parallel port) I was given and it works just fine and I use it for shuffling things between systems and all. It seems durable but, I take care with it as I only have a dozen disks for it. I've always considered removable media a bit more risky be it RL02, RM0x, RP0x or RA60 and while all have a good track record they take a bit of care to insure that. I also have a RL02 and in the over 10 years I've only had one bad pack (damaged) and never a head crash. I'd think 15 year old (age of that drive!) 14" removable harddisk technology would be more suspect than modern carts. Oh, that Syquest was used as a field backup for a laptop for nearly a year before I got it. It was retired as the guy finally got a laptop that had more than a 200mb drive. Allison

27 years, 5 months

3
2
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modern removable media drives

by franke＠sbs.de

> [Continuing a discussion about modern removable-media disk drives, which > would be off-topic except that we want to use modern drives on old > computers.] I'm using ZIPs on all Macs and some early PCs -> on topic .) >>> On the other hand, I've had nothing but good luck with ZIP drives (which >> I won't use zip drives either. I refuse to use an undocumented device to >> store my data. When somebody produces a service manual and a bit-level >> description of the disk (as I have for all my minicomputer drives) then >> I'll consider it. > You may as well forget about using any modern magnetic disk drives, then. > Service manuals don't exist (or are useless). Descriptions of the low-level > format are only available if the format has been blessed by a standards > committee such as ECMA. I'd love to see an ECMA standard for ZIP disks, but I > doubt that it will happen. > On the other hand, ECMA has published standards for various optical > media, including CD-ROM, PD, DVD-ROM, DVD-RAM, and +RW. But these are prety tough compared to traditional magnetig medias (and after All, a Zip is just a high class diskette). >>> I think the problems with removable rigid media stem >>> from the lack of any effective measure to keep contamination out of the >>> drive and disk cartridge; they've tried to use Winchester drive technology >>> without understanding its inherent limitations. >> You mean they _don't_ haev the proper air filters? Ouch. High density >> media needs a cleaner environment than the old RK05 units, and those have >> pretty serious filters in them. > Air filters? Ha! They have nothing but a shutter on the cartridge and a door > flap on the drive. Absolute rubbish. It's miraculous that they work even for > a few weeks. Dame has been said on 8" FD: These will be damaged within hours when the head engraves any particle ... But they worked well and all FD technologies thereafter. And on the other hand - in what way poor iomega could gain this amount of money, other than selling cheap tech at monopol prices. Gruss Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 5 months

4
3
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FREE DG Nova Stuff

by bruce.a.lane＠boeing.com

I was scanning the web during lunch, and I came across a most interesting entry. Check this out... http://www.hopco.com/surplus/s_free.htm I would assume contact info is on their root site. Enjoy! -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed and statements made in this message reflect my views alone, and do not necessarily reflect those of the Boeing Company, its management, or its employees. You have now been officially disclaimed. Bruce Lane The Boeing Company, Aircraft & Missile Systems Computing Support KSC West, 18-04.2, Col. G1 ba.lane(a)pss.boeing.com

27 years, 5 months

2
1
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OT: Flat panel display

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Who was looking for flat panel displays a few weeks ago? I found a company called Earth Computer Technologies in Nuts & Volts. Their web page is www.flat-panel.com of all things. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 11/02/98]

27 years, 5 months

2
1
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Daybreak hard drives (was Re: Collectibles for the future)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:10 PM 11/11/98 -0800, you wrote: > Neither Syquest nor Iomega has any clue how to make high-density removable > rigid media work. Assuming that it is even possible, and I'm not convinced I've been using Syquest drives for nearly 10 years now. Started with a 44MB, then a 105MB, Now a SyJet. I've never had a problem with any of them. I only use the SyJet for Backups, but it works flawlessly for that (Carts are too expensive, though). The others I use all the time -- switching them on and off with the carts in and so on. Main problem is that Winoze doesn't handle removable media very well. (Same problem with my external Fixed Drive -- Windows gets ferschimmled when I take the laptop elsewhere.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 5 months

1
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