- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by cbajpai＠mediaone.net

Hi, I new to the list and recently decided to persue my 'new' old hobby. I was wondering if anyone has any of these old systems: Gavilian Fortune 32:16 Momenta Anything with the Go OS I'm fortunate to have an old Go OS system...an IBM Thinkpad. Stupidly several years ago let a friend throw away the entire Go documentation set as well as SDK. About the same time I threw away one of the first notebooks made - an old Bondwell 8088 machine (mid-80's it was a real clunker of a machine)...my Mom wouldn't let me keep it due to space constraints....it went along with all my Creative Computer and Interface age issues! It pains me to think about all that stuff (including all the prototype systems I had, some which were never sold). I didn't know...honest. -Chandra

27 years, 2 months

5
5
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Plato terminal

by geoffrob＠netcafe.pirie.mtx.net.au

I vaguely seem to remember that the Plato Courseware also ran, or they had a version for, the TI99/4A. They were pushing it at schools and the like IIRC. My first real computer was a TI....Still got it here somewhere, complete with the expansion box and 24k of additional ram, and a 5.25" FDD. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 2 months

2
1
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HP Keyboard and cable

by Anthony.Eros＠digital.com

I recently acquired a DG Aviion 410 minus keyboard and mouse. Does anyone have leads on tracking these items down? -- Tony Eros

27 years, 2 months

3
2
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Hello all!

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

You wrote... >Hi Jay, > > Welcome to the list. Where are you located? I collect smaller HPs >(9000s, 98xx stuff, 85s, calculators, etc). St. Louis, MO. Smaller HP's (9000)? The K and V class machines aren't that small <grin>! What's 98xx? Calculators? Nifty! I have an HP41C that I treasure, but a plastic connector cracked so the top half isn't always in good contact with the bottom half. Grrr... Anyone have a totally dead 41C that I could steal to use the plastic parts from? > I just send two HP 7907s with MAC interfaces to another list member. Humm... I must admit not being familiar with the 7907's. What was different about them from the 7906? I never saw any TSB docs that mentioned them... Got any 7900A's ? :) > What do you do at The Software Exchange (tseinc.com)? > Joe We Exchange our software for other people's money! <grin> I'm the owner there. We sell HP9000 series 800 machines (that's the HP-UX Unix boxes), but we sell only new machines (not used) as part of a vertical solution (with our manufacturing and distribution software). We also do custom programming, network consulting, and we're an ISP as well. Pretty diverse! We only deal in new HP Unix/RISC gear though, not any of the type that I like collecting (2000 TSB related). Also, our DARship only allows us to sell the series 800 stuff with our software. So - no - my desire for 21mx stuff is strictly for my personal collection at home (the 2000E was the first system I ever learned in high school). Other systems in my collection include Dec PDP-8E, PDP-11/23, PDP-11/73, HP1000E (2 of them), and a wide range of period peripherals (LA36, LSI & Hazeltine, Microterm, TU10, Kennedy tape drives, RX02's, etc). My current project is finishing restoration of the 8E (almost complete). Glad to be here on the list, and hope to contribute! Jay West

27 years, 2 months

2
1
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IBM Displaywriter

by kstumpf＠unusual.on.ca

> It obviously doesn't have enough electronics to be more than a keyboard >terminal, but I don't recall seeing a box in the picture. I had understood the >displaywriter to be a stand alone machine. Did it have an additional box or was >it meant to connect to a CRT terminal hooked to a mainframe ? > At present it would seem to be about to join the 3270 monitor I have (can't >remember the model #) as interesting but unusable. The Displaywriter system I have has the keyboard, a monitor, a monitor base-unit, and a box that would sit besite the monitor, etc. It houses dual 8" diskette drives and the rest of the electronics. The cable that runs from this box to the monitor, etc. is permanently attached to the box explaining why you see only a connector. The printer plus form-feed attachment have a footprint that matches the rest of the system, but is even higher than the rest of the system. Early, unobtrusive office automation at it's best. In keeping with the 3 states of computing (hardware, software, eveyware), early IBM word processing technology elegantly passed through the first 2 states. In 1964 IBM coined the term word processing when it released the Magnetic Tape Selectric Typewriter followed the the Magnetic Card Selectric Typewriter and finally the Displaywriter product. This was the hardware state since these products were huge, dedicated pieces of hardware. Then IBM came out with the Displaywrite software series. The hardware melted into software and the technology entered the second state. Now word processing technology is everyware - fax, email, order entry, customer service...; it dissolved from software into everyware. There. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems * www.unusual.on.ca +1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 .

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

TI99: WP and PC

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

You wrote... >> WP... workspace pointer. back when the 9900 was new registers (memory) >> really ate up chip space and TI had an archetecture in the 990 minicomputer >> where register were in memory instead of in the CPU. So the WP is a pointer >> that points to a block of 16 locations in ram that are addressed in >> instructions as R0 through R15. > >Wow! What a cool architecture! That would be a very handy feature to >have in any processor. Wouldn't that be an awfully handy feature for doing a context switch? It would seem simply adjusting WP would perform the appropriate "change of personality" to select the next user/process... Jay

27 years, 2 months

2
1
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Fwd: VAX mail shut down.

by dpeschel＠u.washington.edu

Daniel sent this to the list, but it got rejected because of a suspicious address -- he sent it as root -- and landed in my mail. So I'm resending it. I thought it best to take his address out of the message, so it wouldn't get harvested for spam. To contact him, replace "minako" by "bony" and replace "system" by "root". -- Derek > Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 18:27:16 -0600 (CST) > From: Daniel Seagraves [e-mail address deleted] > To: [a bunch of other people] > Subject: VAX mail shut down. > Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990130181926.2556B-100000(a)bony.umtec.com> > Approved: Why bother? > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > > Just so everyone knows, the address SYSTEM(a)minako.umtec.com has been shut > down. It appears the MX software I have has no spam-blocking abilities > and always relays, and an upgrade to the version that does have these > features costs $500, which I don't have. Software has been released which > allows a spammer to sweep entire subnets for open relays, so ANY open > relay is unsafe! I'm extremely unwilling to do anything that aids > spammers (Like having an open relay) so the mailer daemon there was shut > down, permanently. Mails to there will probably bounce. I haven't had an > incident yet, but I'm not going to either. > > Daniel Seagraves | I'm an International Clandestine Arms Dealer! > #!/bin/perl -sp0777i<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<j]dsj > $/=unpack('H*',$_);$_=`echo 16dio\U$k"SK$/SM$n\EsN0p[lN*1 > lK[d2%Sa2/d0$^Ixp"|dc`;s/\W//g;$_=pack('H*',/((..)*)$/) > What is this? See http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa | 36 BITS 4EVER! > > >

27 years, 2 months

3
2
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IBM Displaywriter

by lwalker＠mail.interlog.com

I picked up an IBM Displaywriter keyboard unit in a local thrift after eyeing it for a couple of weeks and finally couldn't resist adding it to my living-space challenged collection. I remember seeing mention of it in an old 81 datamation mag and a 50s style picture of a dedicated secretary busy at work on one and other info in possibly an old Byte. It was touted as being very popular to the point that it was touted over the PC and that CP/M programs were being ported to it. I opened it up and it has only a small I/O board with a 15 pin connector and takes it's power off that. It looks like an oversized C64. It obviously doesn't have enough electronics to be more than a keyboard terminal, but I don't recall seeing a box in the picture. I had understood the displaywriter to be a stand alone machine. Did it have an additional box or was it meant to connect to a CRT terminal hooked to a mainframe ? At present it would seem to be about to join the 3270 monitor I have (can't remember the model #) as interesting but unusable. Or could I get gadzillion bucks for it on e-pay ? Any info ? ciao larry lwalker(a)interlog.com

27 years, 2 months

1
0
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List Postings

by joe＠barrera.org

>I think that would be a wonderful idea. The only downside I can see is that >a note cannot be posted to the list from someone, lets say, reading an >archive copy, without joining the list. Maybe that would be a good thing >though. Joining the list is pretty easy. And if someone is going to make a post, they might as well stick around a little to read the responses. - Joe

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

VaxStation 3100's

by joe＠barrera.org

>Is it possible to run them without a display via the serial >port on the back? I have a related question... is it possible to run a VaxStation 3100 with a VR319-DA monitor? (The VR319 came with a DECstation 5000/125.) - Joe

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

new toy!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> > It means patching the BIOS to reflect the format differences, and of <> > course you cannot format to 1440k (HD). Allison has done the 3.5" thin <> > I believe. <> <> I'd love to know how this is done. :) Real simple, mine has turbo rom and that knew about 80track two sided drives. I used a 3.5" disk with the advent personality card configured so it looks like a 5.25 80track dd drive and I get 782k per disk (close enough for 720k(different number of sectors but otherwise legit)! The drive was mounted in one of the two hole vacated but the 360k HH drive using a 3.5" to 5.25 adaptor bracket. The 3.5" drive is an older one that has a select switch for one of four drives. A newer drive can be used but you need to make a "odd" cable. Allison

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Antique Computer Rare Vintage HP-41C Classic [Re: FW: Nice finds]

by joe＠barrera.org

> Interesting. I know the guy that owns Hand Held Products. He started > out making EPROM boxs for the HP 41 calculators. Now he's made it big time You realize, of course, that the HP-41C is an "Antique Computer Rare Vintage Classic", right? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=61225809 - Joe :-)

27 years, 2 months

6
7
0 0

Windows 1.0?

by todd.osborne＠barnstormer-software.com

I have a copy of Windows 1.01 that I installed on an XT. What I am wondering, was there ever a publicly available 1.0? I cannot recall ever having seen it. Just curious... Todd Osborne Senior Software Engineer FMStrategies, Inc. http://www.fmstrategies.com/ -------------------------------------------------------- FMStrategies, Inc: tosborne(a)fmstrategies.com Internet E-Mail: todd.osborne(a)barnstormer-software.com -------------------------------------------------------- Founder of the Virtual Windows Class Library (C++) http://www.barnstormer-software.com/vwcl/ -------------------------------------------------------- Anagrams? (http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/) Can you figure out this one? Want the answer? E-Mail me. COCO VERDI MOM (Hint: Think Late 1970's Computer) -------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "The timid die just like the daring, and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" - Michael Longcor

27 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

photographing olf computers/parts

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

Does anyone have any suggestions for ways to photograph parts of my collection? All i have is a basic 35mm camera and a polaroid... Should i use high speed 35mm film becasue of low light conditions indoors, or is a slower speed more important? Or is it important to have a white background for contrast.. Or should i try placing things on a flat bed scanner, etc.. Any suggestions are appreciated. I want to photograph some of my rarer items (Teraks, Sun 1, if you saw that Burroughs core memory that just sold on ebay I have one of those too plus a foot long chunk of wire-wrapped boards from that computer, etc). -Lawrence LeMay

27 years, 2 months

8
13
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Hello all!

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

I just found out about this list so I thought I'd post this here in case someone can help... I appologize if this is a repeat post! Looking for anything HP21MX or HP2000 related - cpu's, peripherals, etc. Many of the HP1000 system peripherals are of interest too. My particular interest is TSB (Time Share BASIC), not RTE, so I'm also interested in IOP Roms, etc. Especially interested in the following: 21mx series cpus and controllers 2748A or 2748B high speed paper tape reader 790x type disk drives (7900, 7905, or 7906) 7970 tape drive TSB 1541 rev c or later paper tape (binary, loader1, and loader2) This is for a private collection, hobbyist use (not business or resale) - does anyone have any of this stuff around in storage they'd be willing to part with? Please reply directly to jay(a)tseinc.com. Thanks! Jay West

27 years, 2 months

6
6
0 0

free stuff

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Lawrence LeMay <lemay(a)cs.umn.edu> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, 28 January 1999 8:44 Subject: free stuff >We have enough Indy Cameras to sink a ship, but we'll probably keep those >for who knows what reason... Ok, I'll bite, WTH is an Indy Camera?? Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 2 months

9
14
0 0

photographing olf computers/parts

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 29, 9:58, Philip.Belben(a)pgen.com wrote: > Subject: Re: photographing olf computers/parts > Use the longest focal length you can That's sound advice. > The slower 35mm films are pretty good with a decent lens, but if you can > get the required magnification with the polaroid, it may be worth > considering since it is likely to be a less grainy process, and a larger > film area (i.e. lower resolution per inch <= same resolution across whole > picture) Actually, modern 35mm film is likely to be better. Don't use too slow a film; for technical reasons, the slower the film, the more contrasty it's likely to be. Too much contrast loses detail. > I have little experience with lighting computer stuff, but I imagine (say) > a board full of chips might require several light sources to avoid the > chips casting strange shadows. Mechanic/electrical artefacts tend to have a lot of reflections, and it's usually better to use one main (preferably diffuse) light source with a big reflector on the other side of the subject, to fil in the shadows. A big white board, or a bedsheet will do admirably. If you do want highlights off the shiny parts, you can always add a small light once you have the main lighting adjusted. If you're using artificial light, even for colour negatives, you'll get better results if you use a colour correction filter on the camera. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 2 months

1
0
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FW: Nice finds

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

-----Original Message----- From: John R. Keys Jr. [mailto:jrkeys@concentric.net] Sent: Thursday, January 28, 1999 8:25 PM To: classicccmp(a)u.washington.edu Subject: FW: Nice finds -----Original Message----- From: John R. Keys Jr. [mailto:jrkeys@concentric.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 6:56 PM To: Classic Subject: Nice finds Well it's been awhile and I have picked a lot more items than I can list without causing problems. I have just few things worth telling everyone about. 1) video tape from by Microsoft called Windows At Work from May 20,1991 featuring Bill Gates giving the keynote address at the first Windows World Conference and Exposition. 2) four brand new unopened video's from Apple (1991) called Apple Mac Competitive Series - on Applications, Power, Networking, and Growth. 3) One used video called Welcome to Macintosh from 1989 4)The Home Computer Handbook ISBN 0-671-47221-6 really a great read with lots of photos 5) Tandem Advance Command Language reference manual. 6) Handheld products Micro-wand systems a model II & III hand held wands, a direct plug-in transformer, all the manuals and software for them. 7) Sailor-2 ONE/D EPROM programmer with manual and software 8) Datarase II EPROM eraser holds up to 4 40pins units at once. 9) Grid model 1810 notebook 10) Commodore Amiga A600HD unit 11) Commodore 1802 monitor 12) V-marc 88a computer 13) TRS80 model 12 14) LEX-21 terminal unit 15)CBM 2001 series works great 16) Otrona Attache portable computer 17) Heathkit H9 video terminal 18) About 30 2600 cartridges That's it for now but this is just a small amount of the items picked up over the last few weeks. Hope to have a web site up soon on concentric.net to list most if not all of the items I have in the collection. Keep Computing John

27 years, 2 months

3
3
0 0

Altairs

by davidfreibrun＠home.com

This page should answer your most of your questions. http://www.geocities.com/~compcloset/MITSAltair8800.htm#MITS Advertisements David davidfreibrun(a)home.com http://altaircomputers.org -----Original Message----- From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, January 30, 1999 3:16 AM Subject: Altairs >There is an ebay auction with two what look to be Altairs, but the second >does not have the MITS "title bar" at the bottom. I thought this was >discussed earlier but I can't find it. Were the early kits, machines, or >??? supplied without the strip, or did someone build it and just not attach >that trip? > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=60303160 > >Is there a way to date when an Altair was made if the serial number is >missing or was not applied (type of motherboard, or other parts)? > >Did all the early Altairs have the crude 4 S-100 socket boards, or did they >make some that were more than 4 sockets?

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Soviet BK-0010

by Anthony.Eros＠digital.com

Wow! That sounds all kinds of neat -- any chance you have a line on more than one of these? I'd love to add a "computer-in-a-keyboard" PDP-11 to the collection! -- Tony Eros Computer History Association of Delaware ---------- From: Andrew Davie[SMTP:adavie@mad.scientist.com] Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sent: Friday, January 29, 1999 9:23 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Soviet BK-0010 I recently posted about the Soviet BK-0010 computer. I've since found out a bit more information about it. I'm reliably told that it has an actual PDP-11 processor inside it - and I naturally assumed it was a PDP-11 clone. Its not. In fact, it is a computer-in-a-keyboard, somewhat akin to the Commodore 64. The whole thing weighs 2kg or thereabouts. It's a simple home computer. There are two versions - a membrane keyboard (with brightly coloured keys!) and a "normal" keyboard one. More information as it becomes available. And here I was, expecting to have to arrange shipping for something the size of a fridge! I'm trying to arrange pictures - I may extend my site to include Soviet Microcomputers, too :) But that would be "MOSMOW" and it doesn't have the same catchy ring to it. I need a new acronym! A -- adavie(a)mad.scientist.com visit MOSCOW - the Museum of Soviet Calculators (on the Web) at http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html a Yahoo!, Netscape, Wall Street Journal, Newsweek and New Scientist Cool Site!

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

No Thank You [Re: Daily Laugh!]

by joe＠barrera.org

I already subscribe to other (better) joke lists.

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Sharp MZ80-B

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

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27 years, 2 months

4
7
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GE Mainframes (235)

by museum＠techniche.com

Hi John, You know the mind works in weird ways. Your message just made some of my synapes fire. I believe you work for MGM right? I don't know if you caught my message from a few weeks ago, but I have a Qantel that my wife occasionally uses in our business. I remember hearing about 10 years ago that one of the markets that Qantel captured early on (late 70's?) was the intertainment industry. They used to have applications for off the wall vertical markets (e.g. film studios, football teams, etc). Have you ever seen one of these in use in your travels? I'm always surprized by what's still out there chugging away after all of these years. Jon ----------------------------------------------------- > > > > The Very First Computer I ever saw, in 1965, was the brand-new GE >235 that my father's company had installed. Because he was a VP, I >got to actually *go in the room* with all that machinery, though I >was but 12. Of course I died right then and went straight to Heaven. > > My question to the List is: are there any of these GE machines >from that era still extant? (let alone still working...) > > My absolute/ultimate Vintage Computer fantasy would be to have >that old 235 up and running... just so I could *smell* it once >more. I have never forgotten the warm smell of all that >electronics, and the Ampex tape machines, and the printer clattering >away.... > > > Sigh. > > > I have pictures of the 235 and 635.... but it's not the same... > > > Cheerz > >John > > > >

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

GE Mainframes (235)

by jpl15＠netcom.com

The Very First Computer I ever saw, in 1965, was the brand-new GE 235 that my father's company had installed. Because he was a VP, I got to actually *go in the room* with all that machinery, though I was but 12. Of course I died right then and went straight to Heaven. My question to the List is: are there any of these GE machines >from that era still extant? (let alone still working...) My absolute/ultimate Vintage Computer fantasy would be to have that old 235 up and running... just so I could *smell* it once more. I have never forgotten the warm smell of all that electronics, and the Ampex tape machines, and the printer clattering away.... Sigh. I have pictures of the 235 and 635.... but it's not the same... Cheerz John

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Really Very Common and Ordinary, Hard Not To Trip Over, GE-645s [Re: Antique Computer Rare Vintage HP-41C Classic [Re: FW: Nice finds]]

by joe＠barrera.org

Are there going to be any systems still running MULTICS in ten years? The list at http://www.multicians.org/sites.html sure looks dire. I don't have to tell anyone on this list how incredibly historically important MULTICS is. - Joe

27 years, 2 months

3
3
0 0

Original Mac (fwd)

by siconic＠jasmine.psyber.com

Here's a guy wanting to sell his original MAcintosh. Please send e-mail directly to the seller: Mail-to: walk(a)me.unlv.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:18:29 -0800 From: Ray Kozak <walk(a)me.unlv.edu> Subject: Original Mac Have an original Mac 128 with image writerII, external drive, extermal modem and lots of software I would like to sell. Do you have any resources I can contact to detetermine a fair price and any bbs to list the system for sale? Thanks RCK Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)verio.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details [Last web site update: 01/15/99]

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Attn: Andrew Davie-is e-mail address right?

by adavie＠mad.scientist.com

OK, sorry about this post to the list... People having trouble contacting me please use adavie(a)comcen.com.au The adavie(a)mad.scientist.com is a valid iname redirected address - obviously they're having some problems. I use mad.scientist as it's cool :) and, should I change ISPs, I won't have to tell the world. A -----Original Message----- From: Computer Room Internet Cafe <netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, January 29, 1999 1:49 PM Subject: Re: Attn: Andrew Davie-is e-mail address right? -----Original Message----- From: Richard A. Cini, Jr. <rcini(a)msn.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, 29 January 1999 13:16 Subject: Attn: Andrew Davie-is e-mail address right? >Sorry for the intrusion, but I'm getting a bad IP address error on Andrew's >e-mail address. >

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

FW: PDP11/70 + Lots of goodies available!

by kyrrin＠my-dejanews.com

Anyone want an 11/70? This guy's going to trash it if no one steps forward. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- From: David Low <ghb04(a)dial.pipex.com> Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: PDP 11/70 Any value Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:00:45 +0000 Organization: UUNET WorldCom server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET WorldCom) Lines: 52 Message-ID: <36ADBC79.5508E5E1(a)dial.pipex.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: usern243.uk.uudial.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1B1F62740C54D10DB1C9CABC" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en Path: news1.jps.net!news.pbi.net!131.119.28.147!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!18.24.4.11!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail Xref: news1.jps.net alt.sys.pdp11:804 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1B1F62740C54D10DB1C9CABC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am finally having a clear out of my garage, amongst the stuff I have there is A Digital pdp11/70, including processor, 64 ports (emulex controllers) Kennedy tape deck, Processor has 4mb memory (Systime), there is a unibus expansion box which contains a disk controller, and the 2 x 32 port emulex controllers. I dont have the disk drives (which were 2 x Fuji super eagles). I have the software tapes, manuals etc. The sysgen listing and patches for Rsts/e 9.3. Is this worth out, or should I finally consign to the skip. (btw all the above is in a systime double width cabinet. regards,, David Low -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."

27 years, 2 months

2
1
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Attn: Andrew Davie-is e-mail address right?

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: Richard A. Cini, Jr. <rcini(a)msn.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, 29 January 1999 13:16 Subject: Attn: Andrew Davie-is e-mail address right? >Sorry for the intrusion, but I'm getting a bad IP address error on Andrew's >e-mail address. > >Andrew, if you can hear me, I'd be interested in the below... > > A quick check shows 3 pages of "Interface schematic" and a 3 pages of > "Display/Control Schematic" and assorted sundries. PLMK if you are >still > looking, and I can probably arrange something. > >Thanks! > >[ Rich Cini/WUGNET >[ ClubWin!/CW7 >[ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking >[ Collector of "classic" computers >[ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ >[ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ ><================ reply separator =================> >------Transcript of session follows ------- >Connection to mad.scientist.com failed. No Ip address found from >email.msn.com-10.48.181.33 >adavie(a)mad.scientist.com >Server received Winsock error Host not found. Your DNS seems to have a problem finding it for some reason. Host name: mad.scientist.com IP address: 207.51.48.65 Alias(es): None Works for me.... Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 2 months

1
0
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Attn: Andrew Davie-is e-mail address right?

by rcini＠msn.com

Sorry for the intrusion, but I'm getting a bad IP address error on Andrew's e-mail address. Andrew, if you can hear me, I'd be interested in the below... A quick check shows 3 pages of "Interface schematic" and a 3 pages of "Display/Control Schematic" and assorted sundries. PLMK if you are still looking, and I can probably arrange something. Thanks! [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================> ------Transcript of session follows ------- Connection to mad.scientist.com failed. No Ip address found from email.msn.com-10.48.181.33 adavie(a)mad.scientist.com Server received Winsock error Host not found.

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Oops! Apology for misinformation about Altos donated to TCM

by joe＠barrera.org

>I am annoyed and depressed You are very much not alone. - Joe

27 years, 2 months

1
0
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Handicapping competitions (was: Re: Alto II (was Re: PDP-8 prices

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

>> Hell, Sam, do a hard one. The main job is a piece of cake and I think >> Tony can do the extra-credit bit with _both_ hands tied behind his back. > > Well, I learnt to solder one-handed (very useful when you need the other > hand to hold something...), and no I don't mean pasting the solder on > with the iron.... > > But soldering without either hand? No thanks... I've never tried holding > a soldering iron between my toes... My usual method is to hold workpiece in left hand, iron in right hand and solder dispenser in mouth. I have also been known, when using solder straight from the reel, to make a fairly rigid structure from solder. Assuming a fixed workpiece, I suppose I could then hold the iron in my mouth... What about it, Tony? Philip.

27 years, 2 months

2
1
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Oops! Apology for misinformation about Altos donated to TCM

by eric＠brouhaha.com

Sorry, it seems that I was mistaken. The Xerox Alto computers that were scrapped by The Computer Museum were not donated by Al Kossow, but apparently by MIT.

27 years, 2 months

4
3
0 0

Fwd: FS: Manuals for Heath/Zenith PC

by cfandt＠netsync.net

I'm passing this on from the Heath reflector. Reply to JPD <jdanter(a)I-AMERICA.NET>, not me. >X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) >Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:16:07 -0800 >Reply-To: JPD <jdanter(a)I-AMERICA.NET> >Sender: Heathkit Owners and Collectors List <HEATH(a)LISTSERV.TEMPE.GOV> >From: JPD <jdanter(a)I-AMERICA.NET> >Subject: FS: Manuals for Heath/Zenith PC >To: HEATH(a)LISTSERV.TEMPE.GOV > >I would like to sell these as a lot. >"Blue Moon" January special. ;) >Offers accepted until Feb 1. > >CP/M Software manual >H89A Heath manual, not a photocopy >Z100 Service volumes I + II >H88 H/WH89 Service Data manual >Z8911 I/O Card manual >Z8937 Disc Controller manual >H/WH19 Video Term. manual > Disc Diagnostic manual > >--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- -- >To subscribe: listserv(a)listserv.tempe.gov >and in body: subscribe HEATH yourfirstname yourlastname >To unsubscribe: listserv(a)listserv.tempe.gov >and in body: signoff HEATH >Archives for HEATH: http://www.tempe.gov/archives >--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

free stuff

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 10:55 AM 1/28/99 -0500, William Donzelli wrote: > >If anyone is really interested in trying to get Indy cams to work with >older systems, I can supply some of the funky Cisco 60-pin cables. These >are from some V.35 clone cables we had made up some time ago, but are now >obsolete. The IndyCam has a fixed cable that ends in this male connector. What we'd need are female sockets. On the other hand, if we're adapting excess cameras, given the thinness of the cable, I'm sure it would make more sense to cut and rewire the cable. They're not using all the pins. - John

27 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

ID request

by edick＠idcomm.com

THis might very well be a Multibus-I motherboard. The Multibus-1 had two connectors, of which only the 86-pin one was defined. Naturally, Intel and others "extended" the bus bu means olf the secondary (dual 30-pin) connector, in some cases to interconnect two boards and in others to provide additional addresses, etc. -Dick- -----Original Message----- From: Mike <dogas(a)leading.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 5:31 PM Subject: ID request >Hi. > >The green and copper of a board caught my eye today at the local thrift. At >first, I thought it was a four slot s100 motherboard but on closer >inspection I find the four slots are 86pin and it has a block harness for >Gnd,+5, -12, and +12. > >On the back is has: LEE DATA, 60001460 Rev A, WL-10, 31/85. > >Anyone know what this is for? > >Thanks >- Mike: dogas(a)leading.net > >

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

more info on Old DEC stuff

by mopar+＠pitt.edu

Some have asked for more info on the stuff I have, so here is the list: print sets: 11/730 field maintenance 11/750 pcs module ka750 mos memory array comet memory unit tu77 tu78 tu80 3x RA81 extra boards 2x m7819 m9313 4x m8750 l0008 l0002 l0003 l0004 2x l0016 11/750 w/14M l0001 e1 l0002 e l0003 k2 l0003 p2 l0008 ya l0028 b2 m7485 m 7486 ya m7792 m7793 11/750 w/14M l0001 e1 l0002 e l0003 k8 l0004 m1 l0008 ya l0006 l0007 l0022 m7819 00 m7521 aa m7528 m7485 m7486 h m7454 battery 11/730 w/4M chassis is not in a cabinet, this is the way I got it dual tu58 m8390 m8391 m8394 -- Jerome A. Marella University of Pittsburgh - CIS Systems & Networks 600 Epsilon Drive, Pittsburgh, PA 15238 mopar+(a)pitt.edu (412) 624-9139 Fax (412) 624-6436 http://www.pitt.edu/~mopar

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Bashe IBM Early Computer book

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

The book also can be ordered at amazon.com. They do not have it in stock, but they are able to obtain copies. John G. Zabolitzky

27 years, 2 months

1
0
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Classic Computer Auctions List

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 10:21 PM 1/26/99 -0800, Sam Ismail wrote: >To demonstrate that old >hardware that can be picked up for pennies can be combined to attain >amazing amounts of computing power. Amazing? How many orders of magnitude difference in horsepower between a C-64 and a $600 Best Buy Intel box? Perhaps I'm being unromantic, and I certainly have too many old computers of the XT/AT/486 variety, but I just don't "get" many of these distributed computing projects. (I do leave my spare contemporary computers working for the RC5 project at distributed.net, but that's another story.) Take 10 computers at 1 horse each, and they're still not equal to one contemporary (cheap) computer at 10 horses. Sure, there's hack value in doing it, but mostly for people with too much time on their hands, or for people who aren't paying for the electric bill or the room to put them in. Hack away, sure - but claim they're doing "useful" work? - John

27 years, 2 months

7
7
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free stuff

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 28, 4:24, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jan 27, 15:11, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > Subject: free stuff > > Documentation sets for the SGI Indigo R3000 computer. Drat, now I've done it too -- that wasn't meant to spam the list :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

free stuff

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 27, 22:36, R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote: > Subject: Re: free stuff > On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote: > > > I'm heading home just now so when I get there I'll send along the > > incomplete pinout that SGI let out. > > > > The connector is a super-high density 60 pin one, identical to those > used as serial interfaces on Cisco 2500 series routers. 4 rows of 15 pins > each. > > Here's the info as found in the Indy Workstation Owner's Guide: > > > Pin Description > ---------------------------- > 7 serial control data > 9 serial control clock > 12 clock ground > 13 clock > 22 +12 > 23 +5 > 24 -12 > 27 data (7) ground > 28 data (7) > 29 data (6) ground > 30 data (6) > 31 data (3) > 32 data (3) ground > 33 data (4) > 34 data (4) ground > 35 data (5) > 36 data (5) ground > 46 data (0) > 47 data (0) ground > 48 data (1) > 49 data (1) ground > 50 data (2) > 51 data (2) ground > > all other pins are marked "reserved". > > Could somebody use this information to interface this camera to another > machine? Maybe. I certainly wouldn't care to. SGI never even used this > interface on any of their other machines. I suspect the idea was to use > the Indycam with the Indy's built-in ISDN interface so you could get > desktop video conferencing straight out of the box. It's also used on Indigo^2 machines. Yes, it was meant for videoconferencing, and many Indys came with an evaluation licence and media for the software. Part of the problem is that ISDN didn't take off; it's common in Europe (especially Germany) and in many places you can just plug an Indy into the wall socket (like the one I'm typing this on) but it's a very muddled setup in the States, with lots of different switch types, multiple interface boxes, etc, in some cases. One of my colleagues took an IndyCam apart, and he tells me the serial bus is based around a standard I2C chip. BTW, I wouldn't describe the quality as "abysmal". Given decent lighting, it's not bad at all (though only 640 x 480, or maybe 640 x 512). Under fluorescent lighting, colour balance can be awkward, but that's because strip lights don't emit a full spectrum, as any photographer will tell you. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

free stuff

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 27, 18:13, Doug wrote: > Subject: Re: free stuff > On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Computer Room Internet Cafe wrote: > > > Ok, I'll bite, WTH is an Indy Camera?? > > A digital video camera for an SGI Indy. The market seems to be flooded > with them right now for some reason. A guy had a couple of boxes of them > at TRW last month. "IndyCam" -- they're moderately low-res (640 x 480 max, I think) 8-bit colour with a fairly unique interface. Meant for videoconferencing; they fit either an Indy or an Indigo^2. I've heard of people adapting them for other uses, though. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 2 months

2
1
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free stuff

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

Hi, Lawrence. On Jan 27, 15:11, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > Subject: free stuff > Sigh. I'm losing my secret storage room where i've been tossing all sorts of > old manuals and such.. So, does anyone need this: > > Documentation sets for the SGI Indigo R3000 computer. I assume you're in the States, so shipping to the UK would probably be too expensive. Pity, as I have three Indigos sans docs. I don't need them, since I could always download the electronic version from the SGI technical library, but they'd be nice to have. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Bashe IBM Early Computer book

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Someone on the List mentioned a book: IBM's Early Computers by Charles Bashe (et al) 1986 Cambridge MIT Press It was described as out of print/unobtainable. Whipping into a phone booth, I tore off my glasses, slammed the reciever down into my Novation JCat acoustic modem, and dialed up www.abebooks.com . Entering: Bashe, Charles gave 8 instances of the title available. The one at Silicon Valley Fine Books has been spoken for. ;} The 7 others are waiting for you..... Cheerz John

27 years, 2 months

1
0
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Gordon Bell computer books on-line

by joe＠barrera.org

And as I speak, Gordon is scanning a whole bunch more old papers to put on-line... I personally went and got him a pair of scissors so that he would stop ripping his bound papers by hand... :-) I think the one he was scanning was something like "have we learned anything >from the pdp-11"? - Joe

27 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

PDP-8 prices

by joe＠barrera.org

> From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)freegate.com> > Sigh. The "PDP-8 in unknown condition" sold for $1526 on Epay. Wonder what > a cherry 8/E with all the trimmings would fetch? Ugh. >--Chuck I sent the seller (dschambe(a)uiuc.edu) three separate emails asking for ANY details about the system, and I received absolutely nothing in reply. So I'll never even know what type of PDP-8 it was... probably a VT-78 :-) Almost certainly not the straight 8 that I naively initially thought it was. I see that the same seller now has an IMSAI 8080 listed (http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=59373250), not known to be working, no pictures, sold as-is. The bid is currently $810 without having met reserve. Any bets what it will end up going for? ... oh, and the matching dual floppies (also not known to be working) are also for sale, currently only $710. Since I'm blabbing here about ebay posts, be sure to check out the $5000 Rare Xerox Alto II computer system (http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=58679296) before it disappears. Oddly, no one has bid on it yet. - Joe

27 years, 2 months

15
54
0 0

Storage problem

by kurtkilgor＠bigfoot.com

A very interesting article posted on Slashdot about the storage problems that are being experienced by the government: http://www.fcw.com/pubs/fcw/1999/0125/fcw-newsstorage-1-25-99.html If you don't feel like checking, it's about how it takes them so long to transfer data to new tapes, the tapes begin to decay by the time they're done.

27 years, 2 months

8
11
0 0

Bugbooks - Mark 80

by cswiger＠wilma.widomaker.com

List: Last night we found, in of all places the attic, some missing literature - my given up for lost original Altair BASIC Referance manual, complete with the little MITS tty test printout ( ?SIN(3.14159/6) \ .5 \ ok ), an Atari BASIC quick referance guide, ad for an Atari MPP modem, and most interesting "Bugbook III", 1975 which discusses a MARK 80 (8080) Microdesigner of E&L instruments. This is somewhat interesting as it consists of a backplane with a breadboard area complete with bus connections for interfacing experiments. Bus is called SK-10 and cards plug into dual wide DEC edge connectors. Anybody have a MARK 80? Is it any relation to the 8008 Mark-8? Chuck cswiger(a)widomaker.com

27 years, 2 months

4
11
0 0

UNIX robustness

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi Allison, hit the wrong button ? cheers, emanuel ---------- > From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: UNIX robustness > Date: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 4:57 PM > On the other hand I've seen UNIX pdp-11s run as long as power and hardware > was available. > > Allison >

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

ID request

by dogas＠leading.net

Hi. The green and copper of a board caught my eye today at the local thrift. At first, I thought it was a four slot s100 motherboard but on closer inspection I find the four slots are 86pin and it has a block harness for Gnd,+5, -12, and +12. On the back is has: LEE DATA, 60001460 Rev A, WL-10, 31/85. Anyone know what this is for? Thanks - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

UNIX robustness

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Allison Parent is probably correct that Ultrix doesn't have as impressive <a record of robustness as VMS, but there are certainly application-specifi <cases where the system did pretty well. The collection of MicroVAX II part <I have at home mostly used to be the University of Toronto's backbone IP <routers, which ran an early Ultrix (I forget if it was 2.0 or 3.0). True enough. I've found it more solid than the also rans even on PCs but compared to VMS it was more difficult to maintain and less tolerent of faults. VMS was more tolerent of memory page faults(ram parity hits) and seemed to have less trouble with unplanned/undesired shutdowns. I suspect for one reason that was true... VMS was older and had more emphasis so there was maturity plus development effort. On the other hand I've seen UNIX pdp-11s run as long as power and hardware was available. Allison

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

more free stuff

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

I have a manual for a Rimfire 6700 disk array subsystem. I also have 2 floppy disks, one 5.25" and one 3.5", each is the Rimfire 6700 Utility Diskette (copyright 1993). I also have 2 copies of a disk drive manual, HP 97556/58/60 5.25-inch SCSI Disk Drives Technical Reference Manual. For whatever reason, these were printed on pink paper.. These are Edition 2, June 1991 Yours for the asking. You pay shipping at post office book rate. -Lawrence LeMay

27 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Alto II (was Re: PDP-8 prices

by mark_k＠iname.com

On Tue, 26 Jan 1999 John Amirault wrote: >In order to read a PDF file you need to get " adobe acrobat reader " . Just >do a net search and you will find all the info you need. Hope this helps you. >John Amirault I think the point is that Acrobat Reader is only available for a few platforms, and if your computer isn't one of those you're stuck. (More or less.) (If the Alto manuals on the web are scanned, try asking the web page maintainer to use a standard image format instead.) -- Mark

27 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

Classic Computer Auctions List

by edick＠idcomm.com

Well . . . not to suggest that I'd consider eating that paper snackie . . . I've seen lots of dollars made with VIC-20's and C-64's, by guys who could imagine a solution to a problem which could be implemented via the printer port and a little bit of code. While the things were really plentiful at the local thrift store, they cost $5 for the computer and $5 for the power module. It seems to me that the internal bus was sufficiently accessible without sawing or drilling the case to allow an enteriprising individual to build custom hardware which harnessed the otherwise wasted ability of one of these gems, to control a 3-axis milling table, or something on that order. The first time was probably painful, but I haven't thrown away my manuals . . . Dick ---------- > From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Classic Computer Auctions List > Date: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 1:52 PM > > On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, John Foust wrote: > > > At 10:21 PM 1/26/99 -0800, Sam Ismail wrote: > > >To demonstrate that old > > >hardware that can be picked up for pennies can be combined to attain > > >amazing amounts of computing power. > > > > Amazing? How many orders of magnitude difference in horsepower > > between a C-64 and a $600 Best Buy Intel box? Perhaps I'm being > > unromantic, and I certainly have too many old computers of the > > XT/AT/486 variety, but I just don't "get" many of these distributed > > computing projects. (I do leave my spare contemporary computers > > working for the RC5 project at distributed.net, but that's another > > story.) Take 10 computers at 1 horse each, and they're still not > > equal to one contemporary (cheap) computer at 10 horses. Sure, > > there's hack value in doing it, but mostly for people with too > > much time on their hands, or for people who aren't paying for the > > electric bill or the room to put them in. Hack away, sure - but > > claim they're doing "useful" work? > > So when this is pulled off successfully and we demonstrate the value of > this project, will you eat a print-out of this e-mail (on a standard 8.5 x > 11 piece of paper) in front of the VCF crowd? > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > Always being hassled by the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 01/15/99]

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

free stuff

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

Sigh. I'm losing my secret storage room where i've been tossing all sorts of old manuals and such.. So, does anyone need this: Documentation sets for the SGI Indigo R3000 computer. Some printer supplies for a Tektronix Phaser III PXi. We have enough Indy Cameras to sink a ship, but we'll probably keep those for who knows what reason... -Lawrence LeMay

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

AMD 9511, 9512, Intel 8231, 8232 wanted, will trade National MM57109

by edick＠idcomm.com

Peter Boyle, along with Wayne Wall, at that time, of the Denver Area 6502 users' group, wrote driver routines, perhaps the ones which were used here to patch the 9511 into the Applesoft basic, for the group's Apple users. It would surprise me to learn that anyone still has this stuff, but if they do, you won't find anything much better. He also started on a set of drivers to go with his XPL0 language for the 6502. I'm not certain whether that task was ever completed. The drivers are quite straightforward, due to the device's architecture. However, as I recall, the patching it into the Applesoft basic was a pain. -Dick- ---------- > From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: AMD 9511, 9512, Intel 8231, 8232 wanted, will trade National MM57109 > Date: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 1:29 PM > > Tony wrote: > > Speaking of which (:-)), does anyone else remember a 9511 card for the > > Apple ][. I found one in a pile of boards that were being thrown out, > > along with the manual (including schematic), but without any software. > > I used to have one of those years ago. There was a patched version of > Applesoft BASIC that would use it. I'm not sure what other software was > written for it.

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Hofacker books [was RE: Ohio Scientific box]

by cswiger＠wilma.widomaker.com

>BTW - I have, somewhere in the basement, the remaining stock >of Hofacker computer - a (at least in germany) somewhat popular >publishing company, that sold more than 120 books and hundreds >of programms thru the early years - Ohio, TRS, Apple or PET - what >ever - from 1977 until 1984 (?) they also published a magazine. Oh boy - one of those for the Atari, called 'hackerbook' was a good referance for writing Atari 8bit device drivers. Sure was fun to make devices interfaced to the joystick-parallel I/O port using Hofacker as a guide. It also showed how to make your own plug in rom carts too, IIRC. Found it in a mall bookstore around '85. Chuck cswiger(a)widomaker.com

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Synoptics LattisNet 1000

by Marty＠itgonline.com

Does anybody know when the Synoptics LattisNet 1000 was first introduced? Marty

27 years, 2 months

5
4
0 0

AMD 9511, 9512, Intel 8231, 8232 wanted, will trade National MM57109

by edick＠idcomm.com

The 9511 was the floating point unit, and the 9512 was for 64-bit integer arithmetic, I believe. I've actually got one of each of these from back in the old days. They were sort of a calculator for your computer, in that they could be operated faster than the cpu could perform the function . . . MUCH faster. Dick ---------- > From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: AMD 9511, 9512, Intel 8231, 8232 wanted, will trade National MM57109 > Date: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 4:33 PM > > > > > > optional 9512 Floating Point (remember these?) > > > > Speaking of which, if anyone has any 9511 or 9512 chips, or the equivalent > > Intel 8231 or 8232, I'd like to get at least one of each. > > Speaking of which (:-)), does anyone else remember a 9511 card for the > Apple ][. I found one in a pile of boards that were being thrown out, > along with the manual (including schematic), but without any software. > > -tony

27 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

Ohio Scientific box

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=55598937 On Ebay. Not one of the "interesting" ones but rare none-the-less. --Chuck

27 years, 2 months

7
10
0 0

AMD 9511, 9512, Intel 8231, 8232 wanted, will tradeNational MM57109

by edick＠idcomm.com

You're absolutely correct . . . I actually got out my old AMD MOS Microprocessors and Peripherals data book from 1985, and found that the 9511 is a stack oriented (like the HP calculators, I guess) arithmetic processor capable of 16 and 32-bit floating point operations, while the 9512 is capable of 32 and 64-bit operations. The 9511, it seems is capable of many more functions, being somewhat reminiscent of a "scientific" calculator, while the 9512 is capable of none of the transcendental functions which the 9511 supports. Both are stack-oriented, therefore ideal for RPN implementation. My steel-trap mind moves closer and closer every day to being a sievel . . oh, well . . . it's HELL getting old. Dick ---------- > From: Gary Oliver <go(a)ao.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: AMD 9511, 9512, Intel 8231, 8232 wanted, will tradeNational MM57109 > Date: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 12:36 PM > > >From my copy of "Floating Point Program Manual Am9511A/Am9512:" > > Am9511A Arithmetic Processor > > Distinctive Characteristics > --------------------------- > 2,3 and 4 MHz operation > Fixed point 16 bit and 32 bit operations > Floating point 32 bit operations > Binary data formats > Add, Subtract, Multiply and Divide > Trigonometric and inverse trigonometric functions > Square roots, logarithms, exponentiation > Stack-oriented operand storage > ... > > Am9512 Floating Point Processor > > Distinctive Characteristics > --------------------------- > Single (32-bit) and double (64-bit) precision capability > Add, Subtract, Multiply and Divide > Compatible with proposed IEEE format > ... > > > The 9511 is very much like a calculator with a 32 bit operand > stack of up to four items. Operations work on the top or top > two items on the stack. Some operands (such as PUPI "push PI") > push a new item on the stack. > > At 4Mhz, a FADD takes (worst case) about 92 uSec and an FMUL > (worst case) at 42 uSeconds. Wasn't too shabby when software > took 5 to 10 times as long on a Z-80. Plus it was possible to > get some other work done while the 9511 was off crunching a > number or two. > > We still use the 9511 on an old (very old) legacy product, although > they will eventually disappear - AMD is certainly not making them > anymore and there are very few left on distributor shelves or even > in "part surplus" houses. > > Gary > > At 10:18 AM 1/27/99 -0700, you wrote: > >The 9511 was the floating point unit, and the 9512 was for 64-bit integer > >arithmetic, I believe. I've actually got one of each of these from back in > >the old days. They were sort of a calculator for your computer, in that > >they could be operated faster than the cpu could perform the function . . > >MUCH faster. > > > >Dick > > > > > >---------- >

27 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Gordon Bell computer books on-line

by joe＠barrera.org

>I've just come across a site that has on-line copies of several >of Gordon Bell's (with others) books on computer architecture, >etc. (My apologies if I'm repeating something, I don't recall >seeing this posted here recently though). > >A menu leading to the books is located at the following site: > >http://beta.ul.cs.cmu.edu/webRoot/Books/Saving_Bell_Books/ They are also available on http://research.microsoft.com/users/gbell/Pubs.htm -- along with a lot more modern stuff just in case you're wondering what Gordon is up to these days.

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Televideo 802 computer?

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Does anyone have one of these? I found a manual for one of these yesterday and it looks pretty cool. Joe

27 years, 2 months

10
9
0 0

Gordon Bell computer books on-line

by aknight＠mindspring.com

Hi, I've just come across a site that has on-line copies of several of Gordon Bell's (with others) books on computer architecture, etc. (My apologies if I'm repeating something, I don't recall seeing this posted here recently though). A menu leading to the books is located at the following site: http://beta.ul.cs.cmu.edu/webRoot/Books/Saving_Bell_Books/ The books that are available at this URL are: Computer Engineering Computer Structures: Readings and Examples Designing Computers and Digital Systems High Tech Ventures I was particularly interested in seeing the Computer Structures: book, as it had been previously noted here on the list that there was coverage of the HP9100 calculator. It turns out that the chapter in Bell's book is taken verbatim (with credit) from the HP Journal article that describes the HP9100, so there isn't any additional info. or analysis on the 9100 by Bell. There is a description of the Olivetti Programma 101 calculator/ computer in the same chapter though. And, of course, descriptions of many, many other early computer architectures. Enjoy! Alex Calculator History & Technology Archive Web Page http://aknight.home.mindspring.com/calc.htm

27 years, 2 months

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Old DEC stuff

by mopar+＠pitt.edu

All, I have some old DEC equipment that I would like to get out of the garage. I would prefer if someone would take the whole lot. If I can't make those arrangements I may be willing to piece things out. The list is following my sig. Jerome -- Jerome A. Marella University of Pittsburgh - CIS Systems & Networks 600 Epsilon Drive, Pittsburgh, PA 15238 mopar+(a)pitt.edu (412) 624-9139 Fax (412) 624-6436 http://www.pitt.edu/~mopar The list of stuff: 2 x 11/750 w 14Meg an 11/730 in pieces 3 x RA81 tu78 tu80 various extra boards - I will make a complete list if anyone likes print sets: 11/730 field maintenance 11/750 pcs module ka750 mos memory array comet memory unit tu77

27 years, 2 months

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TRW Swapmeet Wants/Trades

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> You know, those 30-pin SIMMs will be valuable eventually! You should sav <> every one you find. < <I'm sure they're valuable now to people who have old 286 or 386 <motherboards that use old 30-pin SIMMs. What about all the 486 boards (I have a few!) that use 30pin simms. I also have a older Pentium board that take a mix of 30 pin and 72pin simms! I tried recently to get 4mx9 30 pin parts and 16mb(4 of them) would be about $65... 16mb 72pin parts are going for $19 around here new! Yet I can find the 1mx9 parts for $3 used/tested. I happen to have a very tiny 486slc/33 board that only can take 4simms (and must have 4!) so I either have 4mb or 16mb as choices. I need a minimum of 8mb so I can run useful stuff and a have just a few (dozen) 1mb parts! such is industry. Allison

27 years, 2 months

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IBM PC-JX (was: Reiability of wrong media)

by guerney＠uq.net.au

Tony Duell said: >That sounds _very_ much like a PC-jr. It has connectors for audio and >composite video (RCA sockets) and BERG headers for RS232, 2 joysticks, >CGA (TTL RGBI) monitor, lightpen, cassette, keyboard. No printer port - >that was an optional 'sidecar' module. I think we have established now that this _is_ basically a PC-Jr ! Except: it has a different model number it is black it has a 3.5" disk in the main unit, not a 5.25" drive, and room for another it has a printer port on the back of the main unit (DB-25 type connector) the video ("display") port on the back of the main unit is a DB-15 type connector it was not sold in the USA I have not mentioned before that it does have the two cartridge ports in the same place under the floppy drive at the bottom of the main unit. Unless anyone else wants more details, that is all I expect anyone wants to know about the "JX". The only doubt about its designation that I have, is that it does not say "JX" (or anything other than IBM) on it anywhere! I have had one keen enquiry about the unit from a US collector, so unless the freight charges work out too much, and if the trade is a fair and interesting swap, it looks like it will have a new home. Phil

27 years, 2 months

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DG Aviion input devices (was RE: HP Keyboard and cable)

by netcafe＠pirie.mtx.net.au

-----Original Message----- From: R. Stricklin (kjaeros) <red(a)bears.org> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, 27 January 1999 9:08 Subject: DG Aviion input devices (was RE: HP Keyboard and cable) >On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Anthony Eros wrote: > >> I recently acquired a DG Aviion 410 minus keyboard and mouse. Does anyone >> have leads on tracking these items down? > >Apparently any number of (although not all) standard AT-style PC keyboards >will work with the machine. That is my experience also. A cheap clone keyboard didn't want to play, however, a genuine IBM AT Keyboard seems to work perfectly. >As far as mice go, mine looks like it's probably just a quadrature-style >mouse, although my Aviion isn't working yet and I can't verify this. >Note that for all their outward similarity, the DG mouse is not interchangable >with a Sun mouse. Erk. I was hoping they were. Darn. Anyone in Oz got a source for DG Aviion style mice??? Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au

27 years, 2 months

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Legitimacy of the Ten Year Rule.

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

"Help! I've started replying and I can't stop!" (Last one, I promise!) On Mon, 25 Jan 1999, "Hans Franke" <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de> wrote: ] > ] I personally feel the 10 year "rule" is useful as a guide, however, I also ] > ] consider that there are several machines that rightly qualify as "Classic ] > ] Computers" that are less than 10 years old. There is a particular "grey" ] > ... snippage ... ] ] > Unless the list-maintainer gets active, "on-topic" is by concensus. ] ] If I may add here - he _is_ active - not acting as teh big boo-boo ] doesn't mean beeing non existent - After all, I guess nobody wants ] a dictatoric on/of topic thing. And being existant doesn't mean active either. Has he nipped any single thread, ever? If he never acts to control off-topic messages, then I feel safe in saying he is not active, at least in defining "on-topic". I'm not bitching about that, BTW. Just pointing out that it is up to us as a group to define that. ] > 1. Ten years is just a guideline. If something is only 9 years old, ] > I won't much mind hearing about it. I might even like it. But if ] > it is only two or three years old, there must be a surviving ] > users-group or something. Go find it, or start your own, but please ] > don't clutter up my mailbox with it. ] ] THere are 'surviving' user groups for machines that are ] _way_ older than 9 years - and before getting deeper into, ] this is not a user group ! ] ] And for the mailbox thing - what about a filter ? No, serious, ] from my simple point, all this /11/ stuff is useless (help, no, ] no, I didn't mean is - pleeeeease :) and just adds trafic. But ] I also read them, or at least open them and have a look, since ] sometimes, beside stupid facts, how to configure a special card, ] or device, there are beautiful insights and stories - and BTW, ] the 11 is not classic (since still available new, or at least ] have been sold new less than 10 years ago) nor there is no other ] support - there are _plenty_ of specialised lists, user groups ] and news areas. I even learned to love this PERQ thing (now I ] just need to get one :). Yup, someday I'll have to figure out mail filters. As of now I'm still using plain old Unix (UCB) mail (a classic!). And while there is plenty of on-topic stuff that I skim over (like you, I don't own a PDP-11), there is also plenty of stuff that really doesn't belong here. It is easy enough to skim over. But it would be easier and better to just post messages on the right lists. ] > 2. Nothing PC- or Mac-compatible can ever be classic. Sorry, that's ] > just an indisputable fact. :-) ] ] Boooo - shuld I throw my Apple II PC into the garbage ? Um, I meant PC as in "IBM PC". You know, the same way everybody else has meant it for the past fifteen years or so. :-) Besides, even if it were not a classic computer (which I won't dispute), you could still treasure it. ... snippage ... ] > 3. Guns, cars, schools, Star Trek, and politics are not classic computers. ] > (This is not to disparage people interested in those things, just to ] > point out that those discussions belong on other mailing lists.) ] ] Guns ? Depending. Okay, I'll bite. Give me an example of a gun that is a classic computer. And I don't want to hear about computers controlling guns, or computers designing guns, or computers owned by gun companies, or computers used in anti-gun legislation. In those cases it is the computer, and not the gun, that could be relevant here. ] Cars ? At least related somewhat. Okay, by that measure, everything on Earth (and almost everything not on Earth) is related somewhat. Shall we make this into the "everything" mailing list? Absolutely everything is on-topic, because we can always stretch far enough to find _some_ relation? <sarcasm> Heck, we are *people* talking about those things, and *people* made those classic computers, therefore everything anyone says is related. Cancel all the other mailing lists! Route all their traffic here! It is all on-topic now! </sarcasm> ] Schools ? Hey, this discusion was _very_ on topic at all ! ] Thats where our next collectors generation is growing, and ] it's part of our mission to take our idea of old technik ] use and preseravion to them. Themes like that is waht this ] list makes so different - it's not just 'put this IC into ] that socket' type of mails, it's about real people doing the ] real thing in the real world, with all interactions. Not just ] technik dummys. Nope, MOST of this was way off-topic. How bad teachers are, how great Uncle Roger's girlfriend is as a teacher, how the schools are underfunded, how funding isn't the problem, blah, blah, blah... Maybe your filter saved you from it? ] And for the Star Trek part - Of course, ST had no infuence ] to the idea of computers et all - you're right (BTW1: when ] was the last occurance of ST in this list ? BTW2: OT: I'm ] still searching on data for the Star Wars premiere) *Everything* has influence on everything else. It is not all on-topic. ] > 4. Simply having origins in something that is classic does not make a ] > thing classic. Otherwise *everything* would be classic. ] ] But looking at the origins visible in a new product is still ] a _very_ on topic thing - otherwise we would just ignore the ] world of the last 10 years. And it's one of the most interesting ] things about this hoby, to see how the things have evolved, ] how small and insignificant (at this time possibly good) decisions ] have breed new monsters (see A20 gate :). The advantage of an ] historian is not only to review a specifig period, but also ] trace the ways leading there, AND leading from there to 'now'. Yes, it is very interesting. There are thousands of other mailing lists full of interesting stuff too. But they are not classic computers. I suspect you'd like comp.arch more than this list. Which is not a bad thing, as long as you don't confuse the two. If I wanted to read comp.arch (as I sometimes do), I would just subscribe to it (as I also sometimes do). But despite some overlap, there is a clear difference between the two. ] > 5. The ten year rule should apply to the date when a thing dropped off ] > in popularity; if it was still in common use eight years ago, it is ] > not yet classic. (Justification: if it is still in common use, ] > there will be other places to discuss it.) ] ] If we go for an 'exact' date, I think the mfg date of the ] specific unit is the only possible anchor - just think of ] machines like the A2 - acording to your definition it wont ] qualify. I would even go one step further and use the date ] of first production as base for the rule (as often done ] within the list - best practice rule). Just remember that ] new machines always have been escorted by a increased ] attention and speculation (no, not today :). This event ] itself is classic and part of the history, and the acording So the release of any new machine is automatically a classic event? I hope I'm misunderstanding you here. ] machine. No mater if the Mac is still in production or not, ] the small guy, saying "I'm glad to be out of this bag" ] _is_ classic, without any doubt. Er... huh? ] > 6. Do I really need to add "IMHO" here? :-) ] ] No, as always, we interprete anything we want into your ] words :) Very convenient. It will save me a lot of typing. :-) ] To get to an end: I still think the 10 year thing is a ] thump rule, not a law - and as rule we don't need _exact_ ] fixings, since this would just force the development of ] pseudo exact exemptions (Do I have to mention all these ] laws, where our beloved politicians want to do is best, ] and most exact as possible, and then spend the next 10 ] years to add sub laws without even touching the problem ?). I wasn't suggesting an extreme policy. Going a little off topic is fine. Going way off topic is okay once in a while. But we should at least be aware when we've done that, so we can exert a little self-control, and not go way off-topic all the time. ] And, to say it once more, I don't think this list ] 'unmaintained' - our 'boss' is just _not_ one of ] the I-know-it-all-and-I-will-rule-them guys. That's what I meant by "not active". He is not ruling with an iron fist (or with any sort of fist at all) so we define what we want to talk about, by consensus. I didn't mean to disparage him. After all, he pulled our collective niblets out of the fire, n'est ce pas? ] Gruss ] H. ] ] -- ] Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut ] HRK And On Mon, 25 Jan 1999, "Hans Franke" <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de> wrote: ] > As for the rule itself, I agree that ten years after last manufacture ] > implies classic status - that is, the item is an antique. However, ] > that requirement of time is not necessarily the most prudent for some ] > items. In some cases, classic status might be applied to an item ] > available only two or three years ago. Such cases might be ] > rare but, justified by the circumstances. ] ] To look at similar things, what about cars: wasn't the ] VW Käfer already a classic, _years_ befor the production ] in Germany ended (and in fact, he is still in production ] in Mexico!). ] ] So, when is a classic car classic ? Basicly there is a ] 20 year rule (at least over here), that applies on the ] date of first usage of this particular unit. Yes, let's look at cars. A 1979 Pinto is classic, but a 1980 Pinto won't be until next year. (Pardon my ignorance here; I have almost no idea when Pintos were actually made.) By that logic, your Apple 2 may or may not be classic, based on its exact date of manufacture. Is this the position you want to take? Okay, I'm falling asleep at the wheel here. I'd better go nap. ... lots of snippage ... Good night all, Bill. ] Gruss ] H. ] ] -- ] Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut ] HRK

27 years, 2 months

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Legitimacy of the Ten Year Rule.

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

On Mon, 25 Jan 1999, ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: Subject: Re: Legitimacy of the Ten Year Rule. ] > <1. Ten years is just a guideline. If something is only 9 years old, ] > < I won't much mind hearing about it. I might even like it. But if ] > ] > I happen to like that. ] ] So do I. 10 years should be taken as a guideline. If you happen to have ] just rescued some unbelievably cool machine - say a supercomputer - that ] happens to be only 8 years old, I don't think anyone will flame you for ] mentioning here. Of course, nobody gets flamed for being only slightly off-topic. But we should at least be clear about what "off-topic" means, so we can recognize how far off we've gone. ] There are better places IMHO for mainstream stuff like PCs, Macs, ] Windows, Linux, etc. Not to say that there aren't some real experts on ] all of those here, but you'll get better answers elsewhere. And even if you could get better answers here, I submit that it is rude. I am here because of an interest in older computers. The whole point of having distinct mailing lists for distinct topics is to get information to the people who want it, and not add to the collective information overload. *Please* go to the right list with each question. ] > <2. Nothing PC- or Mac-compatible can ever be classic. Sorry, that's ] > < just an indisputable fact. :-) ] > ] > I draw a line based on two things early 386 or older and uniqueness. There ] > are many clones but a few were very unique and interesting of themselves. ] > An example is the Leading Edge Model D I have or the Kaypro ProPC both Xt ] > class and a bit different. ] ] As I've said before, I have great difficulty in calling a no-name ] PC-clone a 'classic'. Especially when what you actually find in the case ] depends on the week that it was made. Even if it's 10 years old. ] ] Some clones will be 'classic'. The first Compaq probably is. Things like ] the Torch Graduate (A PC-compatible add-on for the BBC micro) is. ] ] And the non-clones (80x86 boxen that run MS-DOS, but which are not PC ] compatible) can be classics IMHO. Things like the Sirius, Apricot, HP150, ] Sanyo, etc... Okay, I'll agree that you think they are classic. :-) ] > <5. The ten year rule should apply to the date when a thing dropped off ] > < in popularity; if it was still in common use eight years ago, it is ] > < not yet classic. (Justification: if it is still in common use, ] > < there will be other places to discuss it.) ] > ] > Humm. This one is tough. We talk about VAXen and the MicroVAX is only ] > about 14-15 years old and some models do persist but they are uniquly ] ] Rememeber that DEC sold PDP11s until a couple of years ago, and that ISA ] cards with CPUs that execute the PDP11 instruction set are (IIRC) still ] in production. Yup, PDP11's are classic. The ISA cards emulating them are not. ] However, a lot of us think of the PDP11 as being a very classic machine. ] It also happens to still be in serious commerical use in a lot of places. ] There are probably more PDP8's out there in control systems than a lot of ] us realise. PDP11's are still in serious use. But is it not well past its prime? How many had Dec manufactured in the last year? Ten years? When you want to buy a computer from Dec, do they offer you a choice between a PDP8 or an Alpha? ] > The keys are OLDness, UNIQUEness and desireability. I'm sure there are ] ] Of course what's desirable to one person may not be desirable to another. ] I can't see why I'd want an Altair, but I'd go quite a way to get a Xerox ] D-machine. I suspect that for others on this list that would be reversed. ] ] -tony A lot of people want the latest PC, too. And prices on PC's are generally higher; doesn't that indicate greater desirability? Even to people on this list, how many can honestly say that the most expensive computer that they own, as measured in the price that they actually paid, was not a PC or Mac? (I can, but I strongly suspect I'm an exception.) Desirability does not make a computer a classic. Age does. Rarity doesn't make a classic, but excessive commonality could preclude it. (Which I think is the source of my bias against PC's and Macs). Bill.

27 years, 2 months

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CoCo3's & Legitimacy of the Ten Year Rule.

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

On Sun, 24 Jan 1999, Roger Merchberger <zmerch(a)30below.com> wrote: Subject: CoCo3's & Legitimacy of the Ten Year Rule. ] >On Sat, 23 Jan 1999, Bill Yakowenko wrote: ] >> 2. Nothing PC- or Mac-compatible can ever be classic. Sorry, that's ] >> just an indisputable fact. :-) ] ] But what about a "Mac Classic???" ;-) Methinks they're over 10 years old, ] and they have *classic* right in the name!!! ;-) Oh boy, they guys at http://www.classic-computers.com/index.html must be thrilled to suddenly be "on-topic"! :-) ] >> 5. The ten year rule should apply to the date when a thing dropped off ] >> in popularity; if it was still in common use eight years ago, it is ] >> not yet classic. (Justification: if it is still in common use, ] >> there will be other places to discuss it.) ] ] Erm, sorry... I (and I think most others would agree with me here) don't ] believe that would work correctly, either. My beloved CoCo3 is more than ] easily considered a classic here, as they *started* production in 1986 (and ] mine was the first one in over a 50 mile radius of my area), but they were ] still in production at least into 1990, and I know they were still in-stock ] items in Radio Shacks & RSCC's in 1990, maybe 1991. I'm sorry to say this, being a bit of a CoCo nut myself, but if they peaked within the past ten years, they are not yet classic. Of course, they are right on the edge here, so you'd get no flames from me for posting about them. I mean, they couldn't have peaked in popularity after they were no longer being sold, right? So that puts them at eight or nine years; almost ripe. But again, slightly off-topic != on-topic. I'm guessing there will be a bell curve of opinion for any machine. Maybe I'm in one of the tails. Does everybody else think that this should be an "everything but this-year's x86" list? ] Due to active production and showroom floor presentation, I submit they ] were in common use less than 10 years ago... yet considered a classic by ] most everyone (and me) here. I just had a little revelation. To me, classic means something more than being old. And being terribly common, like being in every house, negates that. When I think of classic computers, I think of machines that had some personality, like a unique creation from an old sci-fi movie. Electronic brains. Blinky lights. Arcane OS's. High voltage. Made you feel like a mad scientist just to be able to dork around with one. CoCo's, as much as I like them, can't be that. Those and Atari's and Commie's and, yes, even Apple-2's are just too darn ordinary to be classic in that way. PDP's are classic because nobody (well, almost nobody) has them at home. I guess I'm unique in that. So I'll stop the tirade now. You've still got to count my vote though. :-) Cheers, Bill. ] BTW, my CoCo3's serial # is 102404... anyone know if there are different ] serial number series for US-sold versus Canadian-sold CoCo3's? I purchased ] mine in Canada; much cheaper! ] ===== ] Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- zmerch(a)30below.com ] SysAdmin - Iceberg Computers ] ===== Merch's Wild Wisdom of the Moment: ===== ] for (1..15) { print "Merry Christmas\n"; } ] (from perl.1 man page, version 4.)

27 years, 2 months

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PL/M++ [Re: Emulation]

by joe＠barrera.org

Perverse. I like perverse. :-) I have plans one day to write a PL/M++, an object-oriented PL/M that has classes... declared using based pointers. - Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: John Lawson <jpl15(a)netcom.com> >evening.. in the damn box with the rack slides for the drive) then I >think I'll be completely perverse and write a VIC-20 emulator for >it.

27 years, 2 months

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Emulation

by jpl15＠netcom.com

When the Prime 2550-II I rescued is finally up and running (I just discovered the rare and missing Kennedy 9100 I/O cables this evening.. in the damn box with the rack slides for the drive) then I think I'll be completely perverse and write a VIC-20 emulator for it. Anybody who wants... you send me a reel o' tape and I'll return it with the code. Stay tuned for Progess Reports. I think it'll be in PL/1G. Okay. 0630Z; time for beddie-bye. Cheerz John ps: yawwwnnn....

27 years, 2 months

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Legitimacy of the Ten Year Rule.

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

On Sun, 24 Jan 1999, allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent) wrote: ] <5. The ten year rule should apply to the date when a thing dropped off ] < in popularity; if it was still in common use eight years ago, it is ] < not yet classic. (Justification: if it is still in common use, ] < there will be other places to discuss it.) ] ] Humm. This one is tough. We talk about VAXen and the MicroVAX is only ] about 14-15 years old and some models do persist but they are uniquly ] new compared to others. Example, we wouldn't be talking about 6xxx series ] as the oldest ones are early 90s. However BA123 based Microvaxen ] introduced in the 80s were still made in the early 90s and are able to ] run current version of the OS. They are old enough to be of interest. First, are you telling me that Vaxen haven't dropped off in popularity yet? Sure, some are still in use. But then, so are some valve-radios (by collectors). Being in use isn't a problem; being in *common* use, still being at the peak of popularity; *that* is what I would like to avoid on this list. This list is (for me) a refuge from the marketing crap that I get every day about current products. So, I agree that Vaxen are classic, because they are well past their prime. If some model of that peaked within the last ten years though, it isn't classic yet. (Not that I'd mind so much, either. I'm just arguing that it would be mildly off topic.) ] Another example is the DECMATE-III sold up to the early 90s but they are ] related too. Why, they run OS/278 and WPS both legacy software. Yeah, and my Pentium runs CoCo software (via an emulator). And Pentia are related to the 8080, so they have exactly the same two claims to classichood. So lets talk about Pentia! Not. If they peaked in the early 90's, they are not yet classic. We can argue about how far off-topic they are, but it is more than zero. (x86 lose big here because they have not yet passed their peak.) ] The keys are OLDness, UNIQUEness and desireability. I'm sure there are ] technical aspects that would qualify like machines with unusual word ] length or the like but, they should be 80s or earlier in introduction ] or common use. ] ] So long as it's related to the collecting, preserving and discussion ] centered around older machines there is little conflict. Agreed. Little off-topic == little conflict. ] Just my small cash investment in opinion. Thanks for voting. "Vote early, vote often." Cheers, Bill.

27 years, 2 months

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Legitimacy of the Ten Year Rule.

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

On Sat, 23 Jan 1999, Max Eskin wrote: ] On Sat, 23 Jan 1999, Bill Yakowenko wrote: ] > 2. Nothing PC- or Mac-compatible can ever be classic. Sorry, that's ] > just an indisputable fact. :-) ] ] How about a VAX emulating a PC? The Vax is classic. When was the emulator written? :-) ] > 5. The ten year rule should apply to the date when a thing dropped off ] > in popularity; if it was still in common use eight years ago, it is ] > not yet classic. (Justification: if it is still in common use, ] > there will be other places to discuss it.) ] ] How do you define 'common'? What percent of the population must use it? ] What if it's uncommon in my city and common in yours? I intentionally left that undefined. If we disagree about when something passed its prime, then we may also disagree about it being classic. Do you think there are any great geographic differences in computer usage? It may not be a practical issue, but it is an interesting question anyway. I suppose these things should also be settled by concensus. If enough vocal subscribers are from Outer Sluterpia, where Univacs still rule, and the Outer Sluterpian branch of Univac is still in business, then we might have to stop calling Univacs classic (and visit there with big U-haul trucks!) (But don't announce it on this list, or Doug will be upset! :-P ). In practice, I think this is a non-issue. There really is not that much geographic difference in computer use in the areas that our subscribers reside, and I think we can mostly agree on which systems are still selling like hot-cakes and which are long past that point. Bill.

27 years, 2 months

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Australian collector seeking help

by altair8800＠hotmail.com

I received the email message below from one Andrew Davie who resides in Australia. Thought there might be subscribers to this list who could offer him some aid. Bob Wood _____________________________________________________ > From: Andrew Davie <adavie(a)mad.scientist.com> Bob, I'm a computer collector based in Australia. Recently I posted a queston on the 'net about moving computers and equipment >from Russia. In reply, I was given your name as somebody who may have some experience in the field. As you can see from my sig at the bottom, I run a site devoted to Soviet Calculators. Recently I've started branching into Soviet Computers, too - but have yet to find a way to get bulky items reliably out of Russia. I'm writing to see if you might offer me any advice / assistance ? Cheers A -- adavie(a)mad.scientist.com visit the Museum of Soviet Calculators at http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html a Yahoo!, Netscape, Wall Street Journal, Newsweek and New Scientist Cool Site! Andrew, Wish I could help but have had no experience with Russia. I have shipped computers from the US to Europe but that is about the extent of it. Someone has given me more credit than I deserve. I will post your message on the classic computing listserve and see if the worldwide participants to that message board can provide you with some advice. I will forward any replies I receive to you. Good luck Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 2 months

1
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Ebay: Stuff & Help needed with Osborne 1

by joe＠barrera.org

Marvin, Just to let you know... I had already put a bid on at least one of the items you posted about, and I was planning to snipe another one. I'm not going to tell you not to post your lists, but I'd be happier if you didn't. - Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug <doug(a)blinkenlights.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 10:17 PM Subject: Re: Ebay: Stuff & Help needed with Osborne 1 >On Mon, 25 Jan 1999, Marvin wrote: > >> I really thought and hoped this topic had died a well deserved death. > >Me too, but you couldn't resist. Might I suggest a compromise? I will >host a special "Marvin's Ebay Advertising" list. Anybody can subscribe, >and you can make as much noise and as many bidders miserable as you like, >OK? > >-- Doug > >

27 years, 2 months

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Altair BASIC

by kurtkilg＠geocities.com

On Sun, 24 Jan 1999, Andrew Davie wrote: > An interesting quote from my ALTAIR BASIC manual... > "The Software Department is at Ext. 3; and the joint authors of the ALTAIR > BASIC Interpreter, Bill Gates, Paul Allen and Monte Davidoff, will be glad > to assist you." > So, where is Monte these days? I haven't heard of him before. > A I don't know the answer, but I have a similar question. In Time magazine (IIRC), they had a big article on Billy G. and said that one of his business partners died/was injured in a car crash. Who was this?

27 years, 2 months

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Am I a part of history ?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

There is a guy in England that has or had one. I corresponded with him <several years ago and sent him a copy of the manual. My search for the <SC/MP at that time only turned up a couple of hits. < < <> P.S.: I just unpacked my SC/MP kit - Original binder, with original <> packed, still shrink warped, unassembled kit .... Herrgott I'M HAPPY :) I have a sc/mp, docs for it and a few articles as well. Built mine way back in '77 or so. Oh the national part number is isp-8A500 for the sc/mp and isp-8a600 for the sc/mpII. Allison

27 years, 2 months

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reranting...

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Stephen Dauphin <ai705(a)osfn.org> >In summary, there are plenty of items that languish. If it is only going >to get one bid, that winning bidder may as well be you. Wow, this was the first ebay post I appreciate. Alot of cool and interesting items that had real rescue potential, the technologically disenfranchised. Unfortunately, to often what is hawked here aren't those ugly orphans looking for a needed home but the gleaming poster children of this bright shiny new investment opportunity. sol, altair, pdp, challenger, etc OK, I've stopped channeling Norma Ray... *whew* - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 2 months

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reranting...

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Doug <doug(a)blinkenlights.com> >OK, Mike, I give up. Which famous poet are you? > >-- Doug :-) Heh... Well, I was John Donne. But that's another lifetime and another story. ;) The Flea - Mike:dogas@leading.net

27 years, 2 months

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reranting...

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> >For you people who live and die by ebay, I'd like to point out that if *I* >had not been there... I am just saddened when I contemplate the additional dumpster fodder that could have been saved were your energies spent better than at the gas pedal of ebay's search engine. ;) - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 2 months

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Classic Computer Auctions List

by kurtkilg＠geocities.com

On Mon, 25 Jan 1999, Sam Ismail wrote: > And undue inflation at that! Those prices are just based on what some > clown was willing to pay on that day. They have no basis in relevant Actually, it's _not_ undue inflation. The prices are always dependant on what people ask, and if there's only one vendor, the price will be whatever he damn well wants. The obvious solution is to flood the market with cheap classic computers. Wasn't there someone here who had 80 C-64s in his garage?

27 years, 2 months

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HP1000 classic?

by dburrows＠netpath.net

>I actually won an auction on a SCSI 9-track tape drive (with external >terminator). It is marked "5170" on the front. It is a rack mount, front >loading, horizontal feed device. It claims it can do 6250 BPI. We'll see. >Now to see about a program that can dissect RSX-11M BRU format tapes. > >--Chuck > What do need from them? I have a few systems here running several different version of RSX11M+ and have some spare disk drives that I could load just about anything you wanted to retrieve. Then copy it back in many different formats including 4 or 8MM. Dan Burrows

27 years, 2 months

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HP1000 classic?

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

There were a couple of HP1000 systems at the Berman auction this week, both went for $100. One had the equivalent of an RK05 in the rack. There was also a rack with an Intel 80/10 multibus system but it was just the chassis and a multibus memory card, no CPU. I actually won an auction on a SCSI 9-track tape drive (with external terminator). It is marked "5170" on the front. It is a rack mount, front loading, horizontal feed device. It claims it can do 6250 BPI. We'll see. Now to see about a program that can dissect RSX-11M BRU format tapes. --Chuck

27 years, 2 months

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Computers to unload

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

I'm working a school here that a large qty of Apple IIgs's to unload and is looking for a good home for them. If anyone near Minneapolis MN knows of any group that would pick these up e-mail me at jrkeys(a)concentric.net. Thanks

27 years, 2 months

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Soviet BK-0010

by mark_k＠iname.com

On Tue, 26 Jan 1999 Andrew Davie wrote: >Just found out that I actually "have" one of these machines. It was a >surprise to me (its a long story). Anyway, it's still in Russia of course. >This computer is "the smallest analog of PDP-11". I thought I'd ask the >list if anyone has any suggestions as to ways of getting HEAVY things out of >Russia. I have lots of experience getting small calculators and slide rules >out. I'd prefer not to dismantle this thing :) If it's of any interest, there is a BK-0010 (I think that's what is is anyway) emulator for Amiga computers. It's on Aminet, I think the filename has "bkemul" in it. From memory, it comes with some software incl. a Lode Runner type game. -- Mark [Off-topic: I am trying to get hold of data sheets for the following chips: Fujitsu MB86507; Fujitsu MB86312; TI TLS1044 or TLS1043; NEC uPD4216160. *Please* contact me if you have any of these!]

27 years, 2 months

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And now the fine print... [Re: Alto II (was Re: PDP-8 prices...)]

by joe＠barrera.org

>Well, I'm not coming to VCF, but if I was, what would the rule be for me? >Build a PERQ from a bucket of sand ? Jeez, you want everything done for you, don't you? You get an empty bucket, a pair of plastic chopsticks, and access to a beach. You can use all the sand you can get into the bucket using the chopsticks. Improper use of the chopsticks (as judged, subjectively, by Sam) results in having your bucket emptied. Any questions?

27 years, 2 months

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Televideo 802 computer?

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

George, Are you talking about the 802 (which someone said is a terminal) or are you talking about the computer? (model number ???) If you mean the computer then I listed it but I wasn't offering. It's still at the store. I was hoping they might turn up the computer. If you need a copy, I'll see about getting it and making you a copy. If I don't find the computer sooner or later then you may end up with the original. If you mean the terminal manual then it's also still at the store but I don't want it so if you do then let me know and I'll see about getting it for you. Joe At 11:12 AM 1/26/99 -0800, you wrote: >I actually have one of these with no docs... Who was it that was offering >a manual? > >George > >========================================================= >George L. Rachor george(a)racsys.rt.rain.com >Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com >United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX > >On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > >> It seems to me that the 802 was a televideo terminal with an integrated >> workstation. These worked in conjunction with a server unit to run an OS >> called MOST, I believe, and I have a couple of the server units, the number >> of which will occur to me when I look at one again. >> >> These were fairly late technology, using 64k DRAMS and a 4MHz Z80A. The >> servers had four or five serial ports using Z80 SIO's and either 10 or 20 >> MB winchesters to go with their 5-1/4" floppies. They used the >> WD1000-series HDC, which used an 8X300 microcontroller (I2L technology, >> Harvard architecture) and the WD1000 5-chip set. I always admired the >> packaging technology, which was first rate. >> >> I have to believe the workstations were up to the same standard in >> convenient packaging. Televideo was late getting into the desktop >> workstation market, but did it in a big way with these numbers, as they had >> all you could want. The OS was purported, by some users I knew, to be >> quite a bit superior to MPM, which was quite established at that time (late >> '70's, early '80's). >> >> If anyone is interested in the server units, I can make them available, >> less drives, and possibly a couple of SIO/2's which I scavenged years ago, >> for the packaging/shipping cost. >> >> Dick >> >> ---------- >> > From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> >> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >> <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >> > Subject: Televideo 802 computer? >> > Date: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 2:35 AM >> > >> > Does anyone have one of these? I found a manual for one of these >> yesterday >> > and it looks pretty cool. >> > >> > Joe >> > >

27 years, 2 months

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OT: SoCal TRW Swapmeet

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Another month whizzes by! But, what fun! The TRW Ham Radio Swapmeet is this Saturday, 30th January, at the TRW Facility in El Segundo, CA.. from 07:30 until 11:30 hours PST. Any Classicmp denizens who will be in/around the SoCal area on saturday are invited to attend. Afterward, I am planning on brunch at the local eatery, right after Marvin gets done taking 1st place in the ham transmitter hunt contest. (again) Anyone interested in getting together at/after the Meet, or who wishes to use one of my two prime spaces to sell some Vintage Computer gear.. respond by private e-mail for further info. Or, on second thought... never mind. There's never any Good Gear there, anyway... nothing at all. Please sleep in. Wash the car. Walk your ferrets... I want all the Goodies for me...... :) Cheerz John

27 years, 2 months

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disks! disks! disks!

by ckaiser＠oa.ptloma.edu

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 488 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990126/a5245081/at…

27 years, 2 months

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Televideo 802 computer?

by edick＠idcomm.com

It seems to me that the 802 was a televideo terminal with an integrated workstation. These worked in conjunction with a server unit to run an OS called MOST, I believe, and I have a couple of the server units, the number of which will occur to me when I look at one again. These were fairly late technology, using 64k DRAMS and a 4MHz Z80A. The servers had four or five serial ports using Z80 SIO's and either 10 or 20 MB winchesters to go with their 5-1/4" floppies. They used the WD1000-series HDC, which used an 8X300 microcontroller (I2L technology, Harvard architecture) and the WD1000 5-chip set. I always admired the packaging technology, which was first rate. I have to believe the workstations were up to the same standard in convenient packaging. Televideo was late getting into the desktop workstation market, but did it in a big way with these numbers, as they had all you could want. The OS was purported, by some users I knew, to be quite a bit superior to MPM, which was quite established at that time (late '70's, early '80's). If anyone is interested in the server units, I can make them available, less drives, and possibly a couple of SIO/2's which I scavenged years ago, for the packaging/shipping cost. Dick ---------- > From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Televideo 802 computer? > Date: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 2:35 AM > > Does anyone have one of these? I found a manual for one of these yesterday > and it looks pretty cool. > > Joe

27 years, 2 months

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No subject

by martin＠mlewis.freeserve.co.uk

I have an Oliveti ETV 260 It is an 8086 dual 5.25" with built in printer. I was about to throw it away, - Should I proceed ?????

27 years, 2 months

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Reiability of wrong media (was: is out of 5-1/4" diskettes

by mbg＠world.std.com

><RANT> There ain't no sech thing as a 1.44M disk. The IBM style of HD >3.5has 2 sides, 80 tracks per side, 18 sectors per track, and 512 bytes >per sector. If you multiply that out, you get 1.406 HONEST Megabytes >(1048576). The only way to get 1.44 out of that is to creatively >redefine a Megabyte to be 1024000 bytes. That leaves IBM in the position >of claiming that a megabyte of memory is 1048576 bytes, but that a >megabyte of disk space is 1024000 bytes! If IBM ran a donut shop, how >many donuts would there be in a dozen??? </RANT> Hmm... then why does a chkdsk a: on a '1.44' drive and disk return the following: - - - - - 1,457,664 bytes total disk space 512 bytes in 1 directories 1,185,792 bytes in 20 user files 271,360 bytes available on disk 512 bytes in each allocation unit 2,847 total allocation units on disk 530 available allocation units on disk - - - - - You had better check *your* math! 2 * 80 * 18 * 512 = 1474560 Sure looks like at least 1.44 Mb to me! Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 2 months

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old IMSAI hardware

by edick＠idcomm.com

I've got a couple of old IMSAI parallel interface cards, one with two 8255's on it and one with 8 8212's and a bunch of LED's. WOuld anyone have information about these babies? I've had them on the shelf for about fifteen years, thinking I might actually use them for something but have never bothered. I believe I even once had the schematic of the 8255 board, which has two 50-pin edge connectors with the I/O signals and a 26-pin between them which apparently bears some of the control signals from the bus. Unfortunately, I've lost track of the doc's. Anyone have information, e.g. schematics switch settings? Dick

27 years, 2 months

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IBM PC-JX (was: Reiability of wrong media)

by guerney＠uq.net.au

Fred Cisin wrote: >The PC-JX is NOT PC-Jr. >Although there are a few superficial similarities, and many of the same >letters in the name, it is a different machine. Among other things, the >JX uses a 720K 5.25" drive. I think it must be a derivative of the PC-Jr design. With no disk in the drives, it boots up into a 40-col screen with IBM PC Jr BASIC Version J1.00 copyright IBM with 42646 bytes free, all white letters on black background. The initial boot screen is a multi-colour rainbow affair with 64K written at the bottom left. The system box has plugs at the back for keyboard, monitor, RS-232, 2 joysticks, printer, audio, cassette and light pen. My unit has a white 5.25" drive with "360K" written on it in pen - so I guess this is only a 360K drive, but is probably a replacement as I doubt IBM would have clashed the colour scheme with the rest of the black system. Phil

27 years, 2 months

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Am I a part of history ?

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hallo Hans, ---------- > From: Hans Franke <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Am I a part of history ? > Date: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 9:23 AM > Sorry, I didn't find any documents that matched your search for "SC/MP" You know that the german "elektor" had a series of artikels about ? They called him "scampy" or something similar. With board, cpu card, keyboards ... > P.S.: I just unpacked my SC/MP kit - Original binder, with original > packed, still shrink warped, unassembled kit .... Herrgott I'M HAPPY :) cheers, emanuel

27 years, 2 months

2
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(fwd) PDP 11/70 Any value (fwd)

by brett＠xnet.com

Ok you Brits - here's your chance to get a DEC PDP-11 8-) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: David Low <ghb04(a)dial.pipex.com> Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: PDP 11/70 Any value Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:00:45 +0000 I am finally having a clear out of my garage, amongst the stuff I have there is A Digital pdp11/70, including processor, 64 ports (emulex controllers) Kennedy tape deck, Processor has 4mb memory (Systime), there is a unibus expansion box which contains a disk controller, and the 2 x 32 port emulex controllers. I dont have the disk drives (which were 2 x Fuji super eagles). I have the software tapes, manuals etc. The sysgen listing and patches for Rsts/e 9.3. Is this worth out, or should I finally consign to the skip. (btw all the above is in a systime double width cabinet. regards,, David Low tel;cell:0410-804949 tel;fax:0181-527-4637 tel;work:0181-527-5544 x 4786 org:London Borough of Waltham Forest email;internet:ghb04@dial.pipex.com title:Business Development Manager adr;quoted-printable:;;Room 34=0D=0ATown Hall, Forest Road;London;;E17 4JA; ------------ End Forward -------------- I also fail to see where this post is any different than talking about Ebay 'notices'....... BC

27 years, 2 months

2
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Legitimacy of the Ten Year Rule.

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

On Sat, 23 Jan 1999, Geoff Roberts <netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au> wrote: ] I personally feel the 10 year "rule" is useful as a guide, however, I also ] consider that there are several machines that rightly qualify as "Classic ] Computers" that are less than 10 years old. There is a particular "grey" ... snippage ... Unless the list-maintainer gets active, "on-topic" is by concensus. We all started with the ten-year rule in the sign-on message, but it is obvious that not everybody takes that seriously. So, since it is a matter of concensus, here is my vote. 1. Ten years is just a guideline. If something is only 9 years old, I won't much mind hearing about it. I might even like it. But if it is only two or three years old, there must be a surviving users-group or something. Go find it, or start your own, but please don't clutter up my mailbox with it. 2. Nothing PC- or Mac-compatible can ever be classic. Sorry, that's just an indisputable fact. :-) 3. Guns, cars, schools, Star Trek, and politics are not classic computers. (This is not to disparage people interested in those things, just to point out that those discussions belong on other mailing lists.) 4. Simply having origins in something that is classic does not make a thing classic. Otherwise *everything* would be classic. 5. The ten year rule should apply to the date when a thing dropped off in popularity; if it was still in common use eight years ago, it is not yet classic. (Justification: if it is still in common use, there will be other places to discuss it.) 6. Do I really need to add "IMHO" here? :-) Cheers, Bill.

27 years, 2 months

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Slightly OT - Wanted: DG Aviion 410 keyboard and mouse

by Anthony.Eros＠digital.com

Whoops, wrong subject line last time... :-) -------------------------- I recently acquired a DG Aviion 410 minus keyboard and mouse. Does anyone have leads on tracking these items down? -- Tony Eros

27 years, 2 months

1
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