- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

I was out doing a little junking and ran across a interesting little ROM Pack. It is a Tektronix "4052 Character and Symbol" pack (C) 1981. Am I correct in assuming that it is for a Tek terminal? I also found two very interesting floppy disks, I think I reconginze them, but can't remember the name of the computer I think they go to. They're Amsoft CF-2 Compact Floppy disc's. They're double sided for single sided floppy disk drives. They measure 3 9/10" x 3 1/10" x 1/5". Both are in protective hard plastic cases and the one is still in the shrink wrap! Then there were a few Tandy cartridges, and a TI-99/4A "Terminal Emulator 2" cartride that I picked up at the same place. At my favorite book store I got a couple cool books "Machine and Assembly Language programming of the PDP-11", and "Studies in Operating Systems". The OS book looks to be fascinating as it was published in 1976 and has sections on the Burroughs B5500 Master Control Program, CDC Scope 3.2, T.H.E. Multiprogramming System, and the TITAN Supervisor. I didn't find any computers really, just a TRS-80 that was only part there, and a lot of PC clones. Nothing worth bringing home. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |

27 years, 2 months

9
17
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Notice to all Mobile Phone Users!

by hhacker＠gte.net

This message constitutes spam, and will not be tolerated. YOU AND YOUR ORGANISATION ARE ORDERED TO IMMEDIATELY REMOVE MY EMAIL ADDRESS FROM YOUR LIST AND TO NEVER AGAIN SEND SUCH EMAIL MESSAGES TO ME, ON PAIN OF FEDERAL PROSECUTION!!! -----Original Message----- From: MobileCostCutter(a)Hotmail.com <MobileCostCutter(a)Hotmail.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 6:27 PM Subject: Notice to all Mobile Phone Users! >Hi, > >You have been referred to us as someone that would benefit from >the following information. > >If you are a mobile phone user then you may be interested to >learn about the following. > > >___________________________________________________________ >"Don't pay more for your mobile phone than you have to" >___________________________________________________________ > > >We are an independent mobile phone consultancy based in >Hertfordshire that has been formed as a result of the increased >competition between the UK's four mobile phone networks. Our >team have an extensive and personal understanding of how mobile >phone networks compete for your business. > >Our dedicated team of consultants are available to offer you the >cheapest possible package from your existing mobile phone >operator. > >A number of our colleagues are former employees of one of the >UK's leading mobile phone networks. Their knowledge and expertise >will prove to be a valuabe commodity. > > >1. We will show you how it is possible to reduce your existing >monthly line rental charge by between 10% to 50%. > >2. We will show you how you can upgrade your phone at a >discounted price or in some cases, FREE. > >3. We will show you how to go about obtaining a credit on your >account. > >4. We will show you how it is possible to transfer from one >network to another taking your existing mobile phone >number with you and receiving upto ?100.00 for your trouble. > >5. We will show you how you can take advantage of free local and >national calls day and night. > >6. We will show you how to achieve cheaper international calls. > >7. We will show you how to receive a discounted memorable mobile >number. > >8. We will show you how you can have two numbers running side by >side and pay just one line rental charge. > >______________________________ >This and a whole lot more! >______________________________ > >If you require more information regarding the above and what we >can offer you then please send an e.mail stating your name, >contact number, e.mail address, the network you are with and >length of time you have been with them to >MobileCostCutter(a)Hotmail.com. Alternatively, you can contact us >on 01438 234961 or send a fax to 0171 681-3495. > > >Please forward this e.mail to other mobile phone users you know. > >We look forward to hearing from you! > >Kindest Regards and Best Wishes. > > >Christopher Scott >Managing Director > > > > > > >

27 years, 2 months

1
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5151 monitor

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Anybody out there want an IBM 5151 monitor? Not yet sure if it works; will test it soon. Cheers, Bill.

27 years, 2 months

1
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C128 disks ?

by black＠gco.apana.org.au

Hope someone can help. I'm after a copy of the CP/M disks that came with a Commodore 128D, on disk rather than a .D64 images, also, if anyone has a copy of Little Red Reader for the C128 on a 1541 or 71 disk, I'd be forever indebted. I'm willing to pay mailing costs to Oz. cheers, Lance

27 years, 2 months

1
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Tek 4050 series (was:Re: Questions on the days finds)

by Philip.Belben＠PowerTech.co.uk

>>> Yes but what's interesting is that the bit-slice 4052 is software >>> compatible with the 6800 powered 4051!!! The 4052 is a 16 bit machine. I'm >>> guessing that Tektronix used the bit slice CPU so that they could retain >>> the same software but gain the power of the 16 bit system. >> >>>From what I recall (looking at Philip's 4052 service docs), the >>instruction set is not identical. There's at least one 6800 instruction >>missing on the 4052. > > That's odd unless they (Tektronix) never used that instruction since they > claim the the 4052 and 4054 will run all the 4051 software. Don't forget that at the user level, the 4050 series were BASIC machines. Any BASIC program that would run on the 4051 would run on the 4052. Some of the BASIC programs that needed ROM cartridges on the 4051 would run on an unexpanded 4052. Talking of BASIC, I think most of the cartridge ROMs were BASIC extensions. > Does the 4052 service manual give that level of detail? The one for the > 4051 gives NO information on the CPU instruction set other than what was in Not much detail, but it explains the addressing modes and lists the instruction set (although it doesn't tell you what the instructions do). It explains the CPU architecture, including the microcode format... > the Motorola 6800 brochure that's included in the manual. Does the 4052 > manual give the entry points of the software routines in the system ROM? Alas, no. Not a thing. I wish it did! > The 4052 and 4054s also have a larger address range and more memory, > that may also be why their ROMs won't work in the 4051. In part. As I said earlier, I think "software compatibility" meant BASIC software. >>At the hardware level, the 4052 is 16 bit. But the microcode implements >>an 8 bit processor - the 16 bit operations are used for calculating >>addresses only. > > I wondered if they were using all 16 bits for data since they could use > the 8 bit 4051 ROMs. The memory management circuitry is a tour de force. Not only does it handle 16 bit fetches on odd and even bytes, it will decide whether you are addressing 8 bit wide or 16 bit wide memory and act accordingly. Really lovely machine. Yes, the 4052 ROM cartridges are 8 bits wide. Philip.

27 years, 2 months

8
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DECMate III development

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<The reason why I picked up the DECMate at all was because many of you are <such fans of the PDP-8 instruction set. What could I use to experience <this wonderful creation ;)? If you can get a tube and keyboard then head to Dbit (john wilsons site) and start downloading everything in sight. OS/278 was part development environment and also applications platform. You to can end up writing in PAL-III (assembler). Allison

27 years, 2 months

1
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Help - S-100 board info needed

by edick＠idcomm.com

The National MM5290's were, essentially, just another version of the 4116, a 16-K-bit 3-voltage dynamic RAM. I've got some doubts about the TMS4045's as well. I think you may be surprised to learn that they are essentially 2114's, (slow 2148's) which are 1kx4 as opposed to 4kx1. The 4kx1 SRAMS (slow 2147's) were 4044's. I doubt you'll have as much trouble fixing that board by unsoldering as you'd have today. Modern boards have large ground and power plane layers which sink heat much better than those old 2-layer boards allowed. There's a good chance that I've got one in the basement. If needed, I can probably identify the parts for you if nothing else. Dick ---------- From: Barry A. Watzman <Watzman(a)ibm.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Help - S-100 board info needed Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 4:57 PM I need information on two S-100 cards that I have acquired with no manuals. If someone has manuals on these, I'd pay a nominal fee for a copy, but in the meantime I'd like switch and jumper info. Card #1 is a Vector Graphic 64k RAM card. The card uses four rows of National Semiconductor MM5290 chips. There is one dip switch, 8 position, and lots of jumpers. Also, some circuitry that is not populated [U17, U18, U32 and a number of discreet components]. What are the 5290's, are these static or dynamic ? I was presuming it was DRAM, but I was expecting 4 rows of 4116's. Bad news, the memory chips and most of the support chips are soldered and are not socketed, which will be tough to fix if it doesn't work [and for a 20+ year old board, the chances that it works are not that good]. Can anyone help ? Card #2 is a Problem Solver Systems {PSS} Ram 16, a 16k static board with TMS4045 chips [those are 4k x 1 static rams, good chips, I have LOTS of experience with them and even some spare chips]. Two dip switches, one toggle switch and lots of jumpers. Need info. Anyone who can help, thanks in advance ! Regards, Barry Watzman Watzman(a)ibm.net ----------

27 years, 2 months

2
2
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DECMate III

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Roger Ivie wrote: <>As far as OS/278 and WPS goes, the video/keyboard is the console. The < <Ok, what does OS/278 look like? DOS? UNIX? CP/M? DOS looks like CP/M and that looks like OS/278 (newest to oldest). Allison

27 years, 2 months

1
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DECMate III

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<As far as OS/278 and WPS goes, the video/keyboard is the console. The <console is run via a combination of hardware and slushware; the slushware <provides terminal emulation services and the hardware provides the hooks Slushware is the embedded system tracks that do terminal and keyboard work. <needed by the terminal emulation services to appear as a normal console <type serial device to OS/278 and WPS (which expect to talk directly to <the console UART rather than via some sort of device driver). If you were to reassemble os/278 it's possible to redirect it to a serial port. Not a trivial task for a PDP-8 novice. It is doable as the sources are on the net. <If you are sufficiently technically equipped and inclined, it should be <possible to switch the console port (on which the emulator runs) and <the 9-pin serial port for the printer. The first thing done by the <firmware (before it checksums the ROM and loads the slushware) is to <program the I/O addresses of the various hardware ports. It is possible <to switch a few instructions in the initialization sequence to swap the <addresses of the printer and console ports. Although I've _thought_ about <doing this and investigated far enough to determine that it ought to work, <I've not actually _tried_ it, so I could be wrong. No good. The control software is very port specific. <There are a number of fun bits involved. The PDP-8 is a 12-bit machine. <The ROMs are 8-bit parts (2716s). There are three ROMs, providing a <4Kx12 memory image for the PDP-8. The ROMs are interleaved in a funny <way; I figured it out once and Lasner was able to use the information to <extract a ROM image and disassemble it, but that was a few years ago. I'd <have to figure it out again. I think I have that on line. The slushware is where all the interesting stuff is. Allison

27 years, 2 months

1
0
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DECMate III development

by max82＠surfree.com

The reason why I picked up the DECMate at all was because many of you are such fans of the PDP-8 instruction set. What could I use to experience this wonderful creation ;)? --Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com)

27 years, 2 months

1
0
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Help - S-100 board info needed

by Watzman＠ibm.net

I need information on two S-100 cards that I have acquired with no manuals. If someone has manuals on these, I'd pay a nominal fee for a copy, but in the meantime I'd like switch and jumper info. Card #1 is a Vector Graphic 64k RAM card. The card uses four rows of National Semiconductor MM5290 chips. There is one dip switch, 8 position, and lots of jumpers. Also, some circuitry that is not populated [U17, U18, U32 and a number of discreet components]. What are the 5290's, are these static or dynamic ? I was presuming it was DRAM, but I was expecting 4 rows of 4116's. Bad news, the memory chips and most of the support chips are soldered and are not socketed, which will be tough to fix if it doesn't work [and for a 20+ year old board, the chances that it works are not that good]. Can anyone help ? Card #2 is a Problem Solver Systems {PSS} Ram 16, a 16k static board with TMS4045 chips [those are 4k x 1 static rams, good chips, I have LOTS of experience with them and even some spare chips]. Two dip switches, one toggle switch and lots of jumpers. Need info. Anyone who can help, thanks in advance ! Regards, Barry Watzman Watzman(a)ibm.net

27 years, 2 months

1
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SunOS manuals

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

Score! In my quest to get a sun 3/60 running SunOS 3.X, so that I can use it as a boot server for a Sun 1/100U, i managed to score not only a complete set of SunOS 3.2 manuals, but also the manual for installing SunOS version 2.0, AND... A small, but possibly complete, set of SunOS 1.0 manuals, revision D, dated November 1st 1983... I'm quite pleased with myself. of course, I had to agree to make a Apple Laserwriter Plus work from a Sparc 4 serial port... But such is life. D-ring binders... gotta find a bulk supplier of D-ring binders... -Lawrence LeMay

27 years, 2 months

1
0
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DECMate III

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Roger Ivie wrote: > >No. 15-pin cable provides video and power for the monitor as well as a > >serial port for the keyboard; although it looks like a VT220, it's a > >monitor and a keyboard, not a terminal. > > Is there a way to log into the D-25 COMM port? That depends on what you mean by "log into" and how determined you are. One of the operating systems available on the DECmate was CTOS, allegedly some sort of multiuser commercial operating system. I've not used it, so I can only spread rumors about it. It might be possible to "log into" a CTOS system from the comm port. As far as OS/278 and WPS goes, the video/keyboard is the console. The console is run via a combination of hardware and slushware; the slushware provides terminal emulation services and the hardware provides the hooks needed by the terminal emulation services to appear as a normal console type serial device to OS/278 and WPS (which expect to talk directly to the console UART rather than via some sort of device driver). If you are sufficiently technically equipped and inclined, it should be possible to switch the console port (on which the emulator runs) and the 9-pin serial port for the printer. The first thing done by the firmware (before it checksums the ROM and loads the slushware) is to program the I/O addresses of the various hardware ports. It is possible to switch a few instructions in the initialization sequence to swap the addresses of the printer and console ports. Although I've _thought_ about doing this and investigated far enough to determine that it ought to work, I've not actually _tried_ it, so I could be wrong. There are a number of fun bits involved. The PDP-8 is a 12-bit machine. The ROMs are 8-bit parts (2716s). There are three ROMs, providing a 4Kx12 memory image for the PDP-8. The ROMs are interleaved in a funny way; I figured it out once and Lasner was able to use the information to extract a ROM image and disassemble it, but that was a few years ago. I'd have to figure it out again. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

27 years, 2 months

3
2
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DECMate III

by max82＠surfree.com

Hi, I finally picked up the DECMate III that was at my uncle's house. The WPS binders and software got thrown away, but I suppose I could download that stuff from SunSite. I have been told that this is a PDP-8. Is it possible to use 8" disks with this? It only has a dual 5.25" drive (RX50?). Forgive me, I am not familiar with DEC machines. Oh, and one more thing. Can the screen/keyboard be replaced with a PC running a terminal emulator? The screen is attached via a 15-pin cable but otherwise resembles a VT-220. Thanks. --Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com)

27 years, 2 months

2
1
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DECMate III

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

Max Eskin wrote: > On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Roger Ivie wrote: > >As far as OS/278 and WPS goes, the video/keyboard is the console. The > > Ok, what does OS/278 look like? DOS? UNIX? CP/M? It looks kind of like a primitive RT-11. :-) Filenames are 6.2. Of the three you listed, it is closest in flavor to CP/M, but it's really quite different; superficially it is similar (you've got the PIP command, etc.), but it is radically different under the hood. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

27 years, 2 months

1
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PDP-8E and TU10

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

Some time back I got a nice double bay DEC rack that is the dark orange color with beige trim. The top front has a slight slope to it (on one side of the rack this slope contains the controls for the TU10). I'm pretty sure that this rack is the "correct" rack historically for the 8E I received separately. However, in the rack I got was a complete TU10 with the TM11 interface. Since the unit includes the TM11 one can be sure that it was used with a Unibus PDP-11 system, not an Omnibus system. I'm starting to suspect that the TU10 was used with an 8, and the 8 was later upgraded to an 11, so the TM11 was added. How likely is this? More to the point, can the 8E use a TU10, if so via what 8E modules, and is it "historically accurate" to put a TU10 on an 8E? Or - was this a config that was possible but so rare as to not be representative? Can anyone shed some light on this? Jay West

27 years, 2 months

3
2
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DECMate III

by IVIE＠cc.usu.edu

> I finally picked up the DECMate III that was at my uncle's house. > Is it possible > to use 8" disks with this? There was an 8" controller for the DECmate II, but it's rare and I don't know if it works with the three. > Can the screen/keyboard be replaced with a PC running a terminal emulator? > The screen is attached via a 15-pin cable but otherwise resembles a > VT-220. Thanks. No. 15-pin cable provides video and power for the monitor as well as a serial port for the keyboard; although it looks like a VT220, it's a monitor and a keyboard, not a terminal. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu

27 years, 2 months

4
3
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Winterfest hamfest, Annandale, Virginia Sun. 2/28

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I have an attic full of miscellaneous IBM 3270's, 5150's, HDA's (some large Honeywell, IBM 3380 and other assorted HDA's), Apple ][ Plus, isa pc's, Tandy, Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 4, Non-Linear Systems Kaypro II (these are legion aren't they???), Panasonic Sr. Partner luggable, etc., etc., I'll be bringing to the hamfest for adoption. Paper as well, books, magazines, etc. Some software. The hamfest is the Vienna Winterfest which is usually held at the Vienna, VA community center. However, this year it is being held in the parking lot of Northern Virginia Community College (NOVA) located in Annandale on Route 236 (Little River Turnpike) just west of the capitol beltway. If any list members are planning to attend and have any specific wants, please let me know. Thanks, marty(a)itgonline.com

27 years, 2 months

1
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DUMPSTER ALERT - CAPE GIRARDEAU, MISSOURI AREA

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

Ok folks - several people here had spoken to me about their interest in Prime systems...here's one... The following system is available: Lowboy cabinet ("Rabbit"): Prime 2755 cpu (known to work fine) Full size cabinet: Kennedy 1/2 tape drive (may need minor repair), 770mb disk drive (known to work fine) These two boxes are literally already sitting on the loading dock, the owner will likely accept any token offers. I used to do work for this customer and can vouch that they are in perfect shape except as noted above. Systems will include all manuals, OS tapes, etc. Email me directly for details... Jay West jlwest(a)tseinc.com

27 years, 2 months

1
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Games and classic computers

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

I fired up a couple of my Amiga games, one of which I wish to "clone" using modern hardware called StarGlider. This game was pretty revolutionary in its time as it provided lots of smoothly animated 3D things on the screen at once. In looking at this and browsing my amiga archives I came across a regular Amiga flame war which was held between the Game programmers and the Amiga users. The Game programmers were adamant that you had to "take over the machine" in order to get the necessary performance and there was no way you would ever have something like StarGlider running in real time with some OS back there stealing your cycles. I contrasted that with running Descent FreeSpace on my Win95 machine. It brings into focus the huge changes that have undergone this space in only the last 10 years. Amazing, simply amazing. --Chuck

27 years, 2 months

3
3
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Okidata 120 (Commodore printer) for free

by max82＠surfree.com

Does anyone in the Boston, MA area want an Okidata 120 printer w/manual? It uses the C-64 serial bus. It worked last time I checked. Thanks. --Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com)

27 years, 2 months

1
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OT: Interesting article on predicting the dominance of Linux

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 11:29 PM 2/15/99 -0800, you wrote: > >Here's an interesting article that makes some very compelling arguments of >why Linux will unseat Windows as the dominant PC-based operating system: Poor imitation, weak logic, even "nexisms" (the neologism I'm inventing for the supposed intellectual validity of AltaVista and Nexis counts) ... sheesh, everybody's trying to be Eric S. Raymond. Check out <http://www.vmware.com/> for software that'll supposedly let you run several OSes at once, including Windows and Linux. As I've often ranted, it's more probable that apps from one OS will be emulated as necessary to various degrees, ranging from CDs of Microsoft- branded Linux, to even better Win32 APIs for Linux, and species in-between. - John

27 years, 2 months

1
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OT: Interesting article on predicting the dominance of Linux

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Here's an interesting article that makes some very compelling arguments of why Linux will unseat Windows as the dominant PC-based operating system: http://x14.dejanews.com/[ST_rn=qs]/getdoc.xp?AN=432897831&CONTEXT=919146928… (This is a DejaNews URL) Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99]

27 years, 2 months

2
1
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Floppy/Parallel Ports

by edick＠idcomm.com

This may well have been the case. It happens that Microcmputer Systems Corp. which later became XEBEC (remember them???) put out their first microwinchester disk interface for a 5 mbps drive with up to 16 heads interfaced via HPIB. It was purported to be compatible with HP machines. It happens I've got one of these early controllers, which has never been used, if anyone's interested. Dick ---------- > From: Philip.Belben(a)pgen.com > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Floppy/Parallel Ports > Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 10:17 PM > > > > > > Does anyone know of any early (pre-1990) computers, other than the early > > Toshibas, that used the parallel port to access an external floppy drive > > (or other external storage device)? Thanks! > > > (-: Roger, that's a very foolish thing to say on Classiccmp. For startres: > > An "Early" computer does _not_ mean "pre-1990". More like "pre-1960". > > Lots of pre-1990 machines used a parallel port to talk to floppy disk > drives. HP and Commodore machines used HPIB/GPIB for example. And yes, > that was the printer port on those machines too. > > Need I go on? > > Philip. :-) > > (I think someone else has already given a sensible answer, so I have no > qualms about posting the above) > > > >

27 years, 2 months

1
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Adam parts

by manney＠hmcltd.net

Does anyone have any ADAM joysticks and/or software? ...or any commercial source for them? What to you suppose would happen if I called up Coleco? manney

27 years, 2 months

8
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Hi, my current projects

by mikeford＠netwiz.net

I found this list just a few days ago, I hope it is fairly active since I have a handfull of classic systems I am working on. Unisys 386sx microtower, this is a tiny computer (about 2/3 the size of a small desktop) and too cute to leave in the scrap heap I found it in. It is the former property of United California Bank, and has some motherboard memory stripped and I think the hard drive. Three IBM PS/2 model 30's, that wish to have parts comingled so that they might live on as one complete functioning computer. 386 and 387 chips and even memory are intact on one, but for reasons I don't know that unit has the power supply disconnected from the motherboard. I plan to apply some AC soon to see whats what. HP Vectra 466 / 66M, missing drives, some cables, but boots to diagnostic screen fine. Various Apple and Mac items that I generally understand. (Apple IIc, IIc+, IIgs, etc.)

27 years, 2 months

1
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Books

by Philip.Belben＠PowerTech.co.uk

This is posted to two lists, apologies to those (Tony) who get it twice. The library here at Power Tech is throwing out some old books. I got a few, including the odd duplicate of things I'm often asked about, but there are many more, all to go in the skip by the end of the week unless rescued. I intend to keep the Mech. eng. handbook, but the others I will send to anyone who can demonstrate a need (such as "I have a box full of TRAM boards but no programming info") for the cost of shipping (I am in Coalville, England). Oh yes. Raeto West's book (I already have it) is about the best book on the PET you could hope to get. Here's the list: Baumeister, Marks, "Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers", 7th edn, McGraw Hill 1967 Dunn S, Morgan V, "The PET Personal Computer for Beginners", Prentice Hall, 1981 Osborne A, Donahue C S, "PET/CBM Personal Computer Guide" 2nd edn., McGraw Hill, 1980 West R C, "Programming the PET/CBM", Level, 1982 Eggebrecht L C, "Interfacing to the IBM Personal Computer", H W Sams, 1983 Brodie L, "Starting FORTH", Prentice Hall, 1981 Brodie L, "Thinking FORTH", Prentice Hall, 1984 Jones G, Goldsmith M, "Programming in Occam 2", Prentice Hall, 1988 Berry P, "Sharp APL Reference Manual", I P Sharp, 1979 Gilman L, Rose A J, "APL - an Interactive Approach", 2nd edn, 1976 Philip.

27 years, 2 months

7
8
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Tek 4050 series (was:Re: Questions on the days finds)

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

>>And also that the command for direct access to machine code level was NOT >>proffered to the customers. Some of the field guys would provide it to >>customers that they liked, but it was not policy to do so. Certainly, >>also, some of the more knowledgeable users hacked it. >> >>Unfortunately, I have long since forgotten it :{ > > Arrggg! I can't believe you forgot that! That's like saying you found > the holy grail, then lost it! > > Joe >> >> - don Don, I'd almost rather you hadn't said that. Were you deliberately trying to raise false hopes? I am going to have a long look through the documentation I have - including several years' back issues of Tekniques, the 4050 series newsletter, and see what I can find out. Meanwhile, if you remember _anything_, PLEASE TELL US! Philip.

27 years, 2 months

2
1
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AS/400 tape (5763) available

by nerdware＠laidbak.com

Hello, group. Especially you big iron folks..... Going through several piles of surplus stuff at the shop where I keep my workbench, I came across a couple of AS/400 things. One is a tape, still sealed, labeled "System Program V3. 5763 -- PT1 and other programs." The other is a book, still sealed, titled "IBM AS/400 Redbooks Collection Kit, April 1997" If interested, email me off-list. Thank you for your time. We now return you to the classic comp list, already in progress. Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware(a)laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware

27 years, 2 months

1
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Latest find: Apple ][c+ w/no disks

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 99-02-15 22:08:05 EST, you write: > I just picked up an Apple ][c+ (enhanced ][c, w/3.5" internal floppy > and 4.0Mhz 65C02) with monitor, stand, mouse and two Imagewriter I printers > for the princely sum of $15, but lack modern software. All I have is a > couple of 5.25" DOS 3.3 floppies from my ][+ days. I know this thing works: > it boots and runs DOS 3.3; what I need is something a little newer. > > Did Apple ever post ProDOS to the 'net like they have made older versions > of MacOS available? Does DOS 3.3 support 3.5" 800K floppies (probably not). > Is there a good repository for Apple ][ software on ftp somewhere? > lucky dog! the //c+ is a nice machine and is the only // series model i am missing now. you'll only be able to run prodos on 3.5 although you can always plug in an external 5.25 and use that. nibble magazine used to sell dos 3.3 that was patched to run on 3.5 drives. it split each 800k disk into 2 400k volumes. i dont remember what they called it; have to look in my old magazines. there are two places on the net that are called 'ground' and 'asimov' that i've been told are some pretty good repositories of just about any apple // program. someone will be able to post the URLs, i'm sure. david

27 years, 2 months

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Televideo 802 computer?

by edick＠idcomm.com

The 802 is the integrated computer/terminal unit. Call it a super-smart terminal if you like, but it is a relatively convenient version of what wasn't available much of the time back when these were current (early '80's). It is not merely a terminal, though it will fill that function nicely. Dick ---------- > From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Televideo 802 computer? > Date: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 10:18 AM > > George, > > Are you talking about the 802 (which someone said is a terminal) or are > you talking about the computer? (model number ???) > > If you mean the computer then I listed it but I wasn't offering. It's > still at the store. I was hoping they might turn up the computer. If you > need a copy, I'll see about getting it and making you a copy. If I don't > find the computer sooner or later then you may end up with the original. > > If you mean the terminal manual then it's also still at the store but I > don't want it so if you do then let me know and I'll see about getting it > for you. > > Joe > > At 11:12 AM 1/26/99 -0800, you wrote: > >I actually have one of these with no docs... Who was it that was offering > >a manual? > > > >George > > > >========================================================= > >George L. Rachor george(a)racsys.rt.rain.com > >Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com > >United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX > > > >On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > >> It seems to me that the 802 was a televideo terminal with an integrated > >> workstation. These worked in conjunction with a server unit to run an OS > >> called MOST, I believe, and I have a couple of the server units, the number > >> of which will occur to me when I look at one again. > >> > >> These were fairly late technology, using 64k DRAMS and a 4MHz Z80A. The > >> servers had four or five serial ports using Z80 SIO's and either 10 or 20 > >> MB winchesters to go with their 5-1/4" floppies. They used the > >> WD1000-series HDC, which used an 8X300 microcontroller (I2L technology, > >> Harvard architecture) and the WD1000 5-chip set. I always admired the > >> packaging technology, which was first rate. > >> > >> I have to believe the workstations were up to the same standard in > >> convenient packaging. Televideo was late getting into the desktop > >> workstation market, but did it in a big way with these numbers, as they had > >> all you could want. The OS was purported, by some users I knew, to be > >> quite a bit superior to MPM, which was quite established at that time (late > >> '70's, early '80's). > >> > >> If anyone is interested in the server units, I can make them available, > >> less drives, and possibly a couple of SIO/2's which I scavenged years ago, > >> for the packaging/shipping cost. > >> > >> Dick > >> > >> ---------- > >> > From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> > >> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >> <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > >> > Subject: Televideo 802 computer? > >> > Date: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 2:35 AM > >> > > >> > Does anyone have one of these? I found a manual for one of these > >> yesterday > >> > and it looks pretty cool. > >> > > >> > Joe > >> > > > >

27 years, 2 months

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Floppy/Parallel Ports

by Roger＠Sinasohn.com

Does anyone know of any early (pre-1990) computers, other than the early Toshibas, that used the parallel port to access an external floppy drive (or other external storage device)? Thanks!

27 years, 2 months

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Intergraph Clipper hardware

by cube＠msn.fullfeed.com

What you want is an Intergraph InterPro. Stay away from the InterVue (huge cabinetry, with motors for the monitor platform and digitizing surface, etc) and InterActs. (I have an InterPro 2000, dual screen machine). The first InterPro was actually based on National 32000 chips. But after that, they were all Clippers. Intergraph ended up bying the Clipper part of the business from Fairchild, then a few years later went NT/Intel. An InterPro 2000, 2020, etc. would do nicely. Although many were dual screen, you can actually operate them with just one screen (and it might be possible to disable the 2nd screen hardware -- I have never tried that with mine though). Wisconsin DOT has been unloading quite a few of these of late, and they show up at the U. Wisconsin "SWAP" sale (every Friday -- they moved recently to the East side of Madison, WI) occasionally from that source. I paid about $50 for mine (but got a PS/2 server loaded with SCSI drives as part of the big box of stuff I got). Their Unix operating system, CLIX, was largely System V based, with TCP/IP networking from Lachmann and Assosciates. Intergraph recently released Y2K software for the beasties. Best of luck. Jay Jaeger At 01:57 AM 2/9/99 -0800, Kevan Heydon wrote: > >Hi, > >I would like to get a Clipper CPU based workstation but know very little >about what models were made. Does anybody have any information on what >machines Intergraph made. I do know that some models were huge dual >display + tablet systems. I don't have the room for these but if they did >smaller deskside or even desktop systems then these would be of interest. > >Many Thanks > >-- >Kevan > >Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ > --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection Jay.Jaeger(a)msn.fullfeed.com visit http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/~cube

27 years, 2 months

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FS: *SEALED* IBM DOS 3.30 sets/5.25 AND 3.5" disks included

by rhblake＠bigfoot.com

I have just gotten 5 copies of IBM Disk Operating System Version 3.30 with 2-5.25" 360k and 1-3.5" 720k disks included. These are like brand new, never opened. Asking $6.50 per unit, plus $5 priority mailing in the lower 48 US states. AK and HI as well as APO/FPO may be more, will have to see on a case by case basis. First come, first served. Money orders only, please! I bought the box of 6 sets to get one copy for myself at $40.00 and $6.50 is about what each copy cost me, so I won't make any money at all on this. I know there are those that would love to have this for that classic, or to have with other verions of DOS. These are the small format manuals, not the encased notebooks so you don't have to worry about pages getting torn out later. I have calculated shipping from me to California, Chicago, NYC and Tampa to come up with a rate that is within a few cents of actual, hence the $5.00 shipping. All of the locations yielded a $5.40 priority mailing and regular rate is real close to that. If you want a copy email me directly at RHBLAKE(a)BIGFOOT.COM so I can give you a mailing address for payment. Not sure of my reputation? Many of you have bought and traded with me on eBay and on the lists so my reputation for delivering what I post preceeds me. I'm not doing this to get rich, just to fulfill my own nasty habit and spread the wealth among other with the same "disease".

27 years, 2 months

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Books

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

> I still program for the PET, but these days, for speed of developement, I > use VICE and emulate the PET on my SPARCstation. I did finally manage to > port Zork I from the C-64 to the 40-col BASIC 2 PET. Something about > BASIC 4 is clobbering bits of memory, but I don't know where (could be the > DS/DS$ stuff; it s very convoluted). I can't remember about DS and DS$, but these may use some formerly unused page 0 locations. I do recall though that the 8000 series used the former table screen line status bytes (whether the first or second half of an 80-character line), which was not needed when screen lines were 80 character anyway, for a lot of things used in the new screen management routines. The Fat 40, however, did need the screen line status bytes, and stuck the screen management junk at the end of the 2nd cassette buffer. So Cassette #2 can only be used for loading and saving programs on the fat 40. Other data gets corrupted. Anyway, West should contain it all, so best of luck when you get your copy... Philip.

27 years, 2 months

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Australian resuce

by dburrows＠netpath.net

The following is one of the type of instruments I have serviced for many years and it normally came with a PDP8 and many were upgraded to a PDP11 data system. If anyone is interested in details contact them directly to find out more. With the info they have on their configuration I would be able to give some help on details. Dan Newsgroups: sci.techniques.mass-spec From: Carl Braybrook <carl(a)rsc.anu.edu.au> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:30:31 +1100 Subject: VG 70/70 FREE TO GOOD HOME Organization: Australian National University Hi We have an old 70/70 system sitting in a back room taking up space. If we can't find anyone interested in taking it off our hands we will be forced to junk it. Anyone with a real interest, please contact me at the Research School of Chemistry, Austarlian National University, Canberra Australia. tel # 02 6249 3570, or e-mail me on carl(a)rsc.anu.edu.au

27 years, 2 months

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Questions on the days finds

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

>> Yes but what's interesting is that the bit-slice 4052 is software >> compatible with the 6800 powered 4051!!! The 4052 is a 16 bit machine. I'm >> guessing that Tektronix used the bit slice CPU so that they could retain >> the same software but gain the power of the 16 bit system. > > From what I recall (looking at Philip's 4052 service docs), the > instruction set is not identical. There's at least one 6800 instruction > missing on the 4052. And there are (of course) some extra instructions on > the 4052 that aren't on the 6800. That's why some ROMs are 4052 and later > only. IIRC, the only 6800 instruction not present on the 4052/54/52A/54A was DAA - decimal addition adjustment. Since the 6800 has no decimal subtraction adjustment, it was pretty useless anyway. The main difference is the 128K byte address space. Two bits in the processor status register were used for the 17th address bit (most significant) - one for instruction fetches (default 1) and one for data load/store (default 0). Most of the additional instructions manipulated these. Nice features included: if you changed the bit for the instruction fetches, it didn't actually change until the next ALUOUT -> PC microcode instruction, i.e. branch or jump. > At the hardware level, the 4052 is 16 bit. But the microcode implements > an 8 bit processor - the 16 bit operations are used for calculating > addresses only. IIRC there are hardware features (like separate odd and > even ROMs) that would make it easy to make it a true 16 bit machine. But > it wasn't. Almost exactly. And it's not just separate odd and even ROMs - it has separate odd and even address buses! These hardware features do speed it up, though. The other main application of the 16 bit data path was that 2-byte instructions were fetched with a single memory cycle, and this happens quite often. The odd/even address logic meant this could be done at an odd or an even address and still work. My guess is that the hardware guys put a lot of work into that architecture, wanting to make it both nice and 16bit and like the 6800. Unfortunately, this took rather a long time, so the software guys just wrote a 6800 near-emulator in microcode so as to speed the software migration process. But this is just a guess. Philip.

27 years, 2 months

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PDP11/40 Handbook

by gregorym＠cadvision.com

Hi Mike, I have a pdp11/45 processor handbook I can spare. I don't know enough about the -11 line to know how different the 11/45 was from the 11/40. E-mail me privately if it's any use to you. Mark. At 11:17 AM 2/14/99 -0700, you wrote: >Hi all: > >Does anyone have a PDP11/40 Processor Handbook they can part with or rent >out? (I like that touch). Or is there a semi-legitimate copy online >anywhere??? > >Probably any good pdp11/40 assembly handbook would do, I'm just not familiar >with them. > >Thanks, > >Mike Allison >mallison(a)konnections.com > > >

27 years, 2 months

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weekend haul>> HP 1000 ?

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I just got back from a three day hamfest. Boy, did I get a LOAD of stuff!!!! My truck was dragging all the way home! It'll be days unloading and sorting this stuff. One of the interesting things that I got I **think** may be part of an A series HP 1000 but I can't find any of the part numbers in my HP catalogs. The serial number on the power supply indicates that it was made in 1980. Here's a description of it. A large 19” rack mount box, marked “Hewlett Packard 12979B I/O EXTENDER” It’s 19” rack mount box, 23” deep and 9” tall. It has a flat front cover held on by two 1/4 turn fasteners. It has nine slots in the back and nine slots in the front. The back slots are numbered 0 through 7 then 10. the front slots are numbered 11 through 17 then 20 and then DC PC. These cards are currently in it. slot PN Marking (3) PN 02100-60060 marked TERM (11) and (12) PN 12979-60029 marked I/O BUFFER (13) PN 12566-60032 marked MICROCIRCUIT (14) and (15) PN 59310-60101 marked BUS I/O (16), (17) and (20) PN 12566-80024 marked GRD TRUE IN OUT (DC PC) PN 12898-60001 marked EXT. D.C.P.C. All the cards have a card edge connector on the outside edge except for the TERM and EXT DC PC cards. I also got a LARGE box of cables that I *think* are for this device. They all have connectors that plug onto the card edges. Joe

27 years, 2 months

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hamfest and HP cables

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> wrote: > No, it has the ears with the notches in them for wire clips to snap > into. Yesm they're Centronics style. It looks like a standard PC parallel > printer cable but the DB-25 is female instead of male. The 13242 p/n in strangely familiar to me, so I'm thinking it probably went to one of the HP terminals I used to have to deal with. That it's a Amphenol "Centronics-style" connector makes me think it's for a 262X-family terminal, but I'd expect the Amphenol connector to be the 50-pin flavor for that. Also I looked at a 2645 at the office today (still in service) and its cable has a 02640-xxxxx part number. -Frank McConnell

27 years, 2 months

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PDP11/40 Handbook

by mallison＠konnections.com

Hi all: Does anyone have a PDP11/40 Processor Handbook they can part with or rent out? (I like that touch). Or is there a semi-legitimate copy online anywhere??? Probably any good pdp11/40 assembly handbook would do, I'm just not familiar with them. Thanks, Mike Allison mallison(a)konnections.com

27 years, 2 months

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Rainbow Operating Systems

by mallison＠konnections.com

If anyone wonders what to fed their Rainbow, besides Concurrent CPM/86 at the unofficial CPM site, there is the DEC fpt server in Uppsala. They have a few different systems for the rainbow: CCPM, CPM, MSDOS, P-System (and possibly Fortran System). Check out: ftp://ftp.update.uu.se/pub/rainbow/ You'll need a copy of teledisk and lha archiver. I believe they are also available on the same server. Have fun, Mike (They also have system stuff for pdp11's and 8's)

27 years, 2 months

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PDP11/40 Handbook

by mallison＠konnections.com

'Cause if I'd a posted it then, there wouldn't have been one. Actually I've passed up a couple in the last few months, against my better judgement... Now, I need one... Thanks At 07:48 PM 2/14/99, Joe wrote: >Damm! Mike. Why didn't you post this a few days ago? I passed up a 11/40 >Assembly language book for $1 at a hamfest this weekend. > > Joe > >At 11:17 AM 2/14/99 -0700, you wrote: >>Hi all: >> >>Does anyone have a PDP11/40 Processor Handbook they can part with or rent >>out? (I like that touch). Or is there a semi-legitimate copy online >>anywhere??? >> >>Probably any good pdp11/40 assembly handbook would do, I'm just not familiar >>with them. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Mike Allison >>mallison(a)konnections.com >> >> > > >

27 years, 2 months

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PDP11/40 Handbook

by mallison＠konnections.com

I really need a copy of the pdp11 processor handbook... If you have a spare, let me know what you need to get it here. I'm at Zip 84404, Ogden, UT Thanks, Mike At 05:26 PM 2/14/99 -0500, Bill Pechter wrote: >> Hi all: >> >> Does anyone have a PDP11/40 Processor Handbook they can part with or rent >> out? (I like that touch). Or is there a semi-legitimate copy online >> anywhere??? >> >> Probably any good pdp11/40 assembly handbook would do, I'm just not familiar >> with them. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Mike Allison >> mallison(a)konnections.com >> >> >Somewhere I've got the Red PDP11 Mainframe handbook that was an 11/40 >maintenance guide. > >I've also got copies of the PDP11 processor handbook > >What do you really need, an assembly lang ref, maintenance manual or what. > >Bill >ex-DEC Field Service geek >bpechter(a)shell.monmouth.com >pechter(a)pechter.nws.net > >--- > Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a > villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller > bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.nws.net|pechter@pechter.ddns.org > >

27 years, 2 months

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Nanocomputer

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 624 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990214/6a26b286/at…

27 years, 2 months

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Questions on the days finds

by Philip.Belben＠PowerTech.co.uk

> I was out doing a little junking and ran across a interesting little ROM > Pack. It is a Tektronix "4052 Character and Symbol" pack (C) 1981. Am I > correct in assuming that it is for a Tek terminal? W O W !!!!!!!! See Don's earlier post for a description of the 4052. I have a 4052 and I lack the ROM pack. I would be prepared to pay something quite substantial for this if you are willing to part with it. Could you possibly ascertain shipping costs to UK, and let me know whether payment in US banknotes is acceptable? Please? > I also found two very interesting floppy disks, I think I reconginze them, > but can't remember the name of the computer I think they go to. They're > Amsoft CF-2 Compact Floppy disc's. They're double sided for single sided > floppy disk drives. They measure 3 9/10" x 3 1/10" x 1/5". Both are in > protective hard plastic cases and the one is still in the shrink wrap! Amsoft sounds very Amstrad, I must admit, but I feel I must put in that one system nobody seems to have mentioned that used 3 inch floppies was the Tatung Einstein - a Taiwanese (I think) Z80 based home computer that tried to jump on the BBC Micro bandwagon in the UK.

27 years, 2 months

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Needed: DEC PDP-8 'M220' module

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

I need an M220 module for my PDP-8/L. Does anybody have one for sale or know where I could find one? Thanks, Tom -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>

27 years, 2 months

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Great uP page

by cswiger＠wilma.widomaker.com

Here's a semi-interesting page of quasi-historical importance about uP's of the past. It probably doesn't jive with the classiccmp list view of reality, but discusses 40xx's, and {non-authoritatively} answers one members question about the uP in the Voyager probe: "Apart from the COSMAC microcomputer kit, the 1802 saw action in some video games from RCA and Radio Shack, and the chip is the heart of the Voyager, Viking and Galileo " http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~bayko/cpu.html We especially like the 2nd IEEE Computer article in Apendix E. Chuck cswiger(a)widomaker.com

27 years, 2 months

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ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! originalAltairdisk sells for... )

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Well . . . I'd make the observation that while the ALTAIR was certainly <built in the mid 1970's, several of the other machines to which you refer <were not, not were the "mini-floppy" drives which later became common. Ok, lets get on the same page. I built altair serial number 200 in 1975, January to be exact. from there I can elaborate but I think being there and using/building many allows me historical accuracy. <In the mid-'70's, both ribbon cable and IDC connectors were quite costly b <comparison with up-to-then common labor intensive hand wiring. As the Gee I posted something to that effect. A quote of mine from the mail you quoted. <> Believe it. The cable was hand wired and IDC in the mid '70s was really <> new, expensive and not quite ready for pimetime. IDC was more an early <> 80s item brought to the party. <economies of scale took effect, ribbon and the associated connector <mechanisms became both cheaper and more reliable, so that, by the time the More reliable yes, reliable no. Testing at DEC done in the QA labs put the average IDC connector as decaying contact resistance and sometime outright failure in the 10-20 insertion/removeal cycles. The more common D25 or D37 connector was usually 5-10 time better in number of operating cycles. Their conclusion was for external connectors where cables may be moved/changed often the D9/15/25/37 connectors were far better choice. For internal cables where likelyhood of being cycled was lower the IDC connectors were accetable. <mini-floppies were accepted, the associated ribbon cable hardware was <firmly intrenched in the market. The plastic (T&B Ansley in this case) <ribbon cable connectors were not the best available. The old 8" drives ha <enough signals which were used early in the game that the 50-conductor <cable became the standard as opposed to the 34-pin, which could easily <handle the operation of a drive once the later-accepted conventions were i <place. minifloppys accetance was in the 77-79 time frame and IDC was used but considered "cheaping out". <At the time of the ALTAIR, these conventions were not yet in place. That's not news to me. If anything I'd suggested that was exactly the case. I'd seen a great amount to standards (pseudo standards) shift from mid '70s to the mid 80s. One well known one was the S100 bus itself. Allison

27 years, 2 months

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ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! originalAltairdisk sells for... )

by edick＠idcomm.com

Well . . . I'd make the observation that while the ALTAIR was certainly built in the mid 1970's, several of the other machines to which you refer were not, not were the "mini-floppy" drives which later became common. In the mid-'70's, both ribbon cable and IDC connectors were quite costly by comparison with up-to-then common labor intensive hand wiring. As the economies of scale took effect, ribbon and the associated connector mechanisms became both cheaper and more reliable, so that, by the time the mini-floppies were accepted, the associated ribbon cable hardware was firmly intrenched in the market. The plastic (T&B Ansley in this case) ribbon cable connectors were not the best available. The old 8" drives had enough signals which were used early in the game that the 50-conductor cable became the standard as opposed to the 34-pin, which could easily handle the operation of a drive once the later-accepted conventions were in place. At the time of the ALTAIR, these conventions were not yet in place. Dick ---------- > From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! originalAltairdisk sells for... ) > Date: Saturday, February 13, 1999 10:16 PM > > > <I'm not sure you're right about the assertion that 37 is enough. Maybe, > <but the old drives used more signals than the later ones. > > At this point I'd say this. I was there and used then first products. > I even hand made cables. The oldest 5.25 floppies didn't used the full > 34 pins and the 8" drives didn't either. Many of the pins in the 8" case > were used in exchange for others but the odd pins in both 8" and 5" were > all ground and you didn't have to use all of them. the latter being the > common case. > > the best example of this is the DEC VT180 CP/M machine D37 on the back of > the box to a DB25 on the drives. The drives were SA400L or tandon TM-100. > > <The shielded cables using the DC37 connectors certainly were more durable > <than the IDC50 types one often sees, but the cable hardware in the ALTAIR > <box certainly was the cheapest available. I doubt it was any more solid > <than the IDC types. > > Believe it. The cable was hand wired and IDC in the mid '70s was really > new, expensive and not quite ready for pimetime. IDC was more an early > 80s item brought to the party. > > I have the small but significant advantage in that I was old enough to have > been in the engineering business over 6 years before the altair. So I got > to "be there and see there" alot. That and I bought an early Altair > and helped a few business and hardy hackers build and get theirs going. > > Allison

27 years, 2 months

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FS: IBM PS/2 model 50 or 50Z power supplies (set of 2)

by rhblake＠bigfoot.com

I have 2 power supplies for the PS/2 50 series of computers, as one unit to get rid of. Both are from working units. One has a red paddle, one white. One is from a 50 and one from a 50Z, but are interchangeable. The set of 2 goes for $5.00 to the first to claim them, plus the applicable USPS shipping. The two weigh about 6-7 lbs. USA and APO/FPO only please. Please include your postal zip code so I can reply to you with a shipping amount. The units are located in zip 40144. Money orders only please.

27 years, 2 months

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ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altairdisk sells for... )

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<drives, normally packaged externally to the cardcage, was most often a <50-pin flat cable, though a 37 could have handled the task if you didn't <mind that there was not a ground for every signal. The early FDD's were True. <typically hard sectored and used more signals than were required by the <later models. Not always true. If the FDD internal data seperator was used hard sector added 0 (sector holes in same cylinder as hub) or one line (sector holes at perimeter) depending on model. <The insides of the ALTAIR FDD box were not simple and clean like their <successors. Not really. It was pretty vanilla. the board set was a horror. ;) Allison

27 years, 2 months

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ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altairdisk sells for... )

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I'm not sure you're right about the assertion that 37 is enough. Maybe, <but the old drives used more signals than the later ones. At this point I'd say this. I was there and used then first products. I even hand made cables. The oldest 5.25 floppies didn't used the full 34 pins and the 8" drives didn't either. Many of the pins in the 8" case were used in exchange for others but the odd pins in both 8" and 5" were all ground and you didn't have to use all of them. the latter being the common case. the best example of this is the DEC VT180 CP/M machine D37 on the back of the box to a DB25 on the drives. The drives were SA400L or tandon TM-100. <The shielded cables using the DC37 connectors certainly were more durable <than the IDC50 types one often sees, but the cable hardware in the ALTAIR <box certainly was the cheapest available. I doubt it was any more solid <than the IDC types. Believe it. The cable was hand wired and IDC in the mid '70s was really new, expensive and not quite ready for pimetime. IDC was more an early 80s item brought to the party. I have the small but significant advantage in that I was old enough to have been in the engineering business over 6 years before the altair. So I got to "be there and see there" alot. That and I bought an early Altair and helped a few business and hardy hackers build and get theirs going. Allison

27 years, 2 months

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ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Do you mean that the various systems that used the 37-pin D-sub actually <used the same pinout? I was of the impression that there was no standard <for it (before the IBM PC created a defacto standard in 1981), so I <assumed that the IBM, DEC, and Xerox stuff probably used entirely unrelate <pinouts. They all used he same connector... none wired it the same that I know of. Allison

27 years, 2 months

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Apollo memory boards seen

by ss＠allegro.com

Hi, I saw a bunch (10?) of Apollo memory boards (4 MB?) at WeirdStuff Warehouse (http://www.weirdstuff.com), which is located in Sunnyvale, CA. The boards are in the "As-Is" section, and are $10/each, and are about 4 or 5 inches on each side. SS

27 years, 2 months

1
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SunOS 4.0.3

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Lawrence LeMay <lemay(a)cs.umn.edu> wrote: > It looks like the last version of SunOS that I can run on a Sun 1/100U > is version 4.0.3, however i'm not sure if I have enough ram to use that > version. It looks like I can only add 2 ram boards, and all I have > are 1Meg ram boards... You could probably run any earlier SunOS. I used to run 3.5 on my 2/120 and 2/50, but I had 4MB in each, later 7MB in the 2/120. I also remember getting X11R4 to build and run on the 2/120 under 3.5, but can't remember how much memory I had at the time, just that it took 18 hours to build. I'm thinking 3.5 would be lighter than 4.0.x. I remember thinking about getting 4.0.x for my 2/120 so it would support SCSI disks (besides ST506 and ESDI disks attached via Adaptec ACB4000 and Emulex MD21) and deciding against it. > The Sun 1/100U does not have any way to connect peripherals such as > hard drives, so the unit will have to be booted from the network. > I guess its almost time for me to brush up on tftp protocol, assuming > I can find some OS to run on this computer. Last time I looked through /etc/rc* on a SunOS 4.1.4 system, I noticed that nd support was still there, and thought that it was probably still possible to get it to act as a boot server, even for SunOS 3 for the Sun-2. I'm not real sure how you would install it with just the tapes and a tape drive on the newer system though, but then I can't remember how I got the 2/120 to boot the 2/50 either. -Frank McConnell

27 years, 2 months

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ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for... )

by edick＠idcomm.com

What I find odd about the MITS FDD is that they used a 37-pin "D" connector and cable as opposed to the 50-pin more commonly seen on the 8" types. I found one among a set of enclosures I bought about 20 years ago. While this is already promised out (once I find the top of the box), I do know that there's an ALTAIR hard disk controller box, apparently with a drive inside, judging from the weight, at Gateway Electronics in Denver, (303) 458-5444, if anyone's interested. It's the same size as the ALTAIR FDD box. Dick ---------- > From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: RE: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for > Date: Friday, February 12, 1999 6:34 PM > > > <True enough I'm sure. MITS also produced a "mini"-floppy controller that > <was also a two board TTL set. The first board (computer interface) was th > <same board as in the 8" set (except for different RC values), the second > > Well heres where I stand on it. Never seen one, I was there, and never > seen an advert for one, I have back issues. Was it possible, sure. The 8" > design with some tweeks would certainly do minifloppy. > > Allison

27 years, 2 months

4
5
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Need Civilization Pointers... (was: Re: Intel 4004)

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Roger Merchberger <zmerch(a)30below.com> wrote: > No offense, but my father (who has been there several times) says it's > dangerous for the same reason he calls California "the land of Fruits and > Nuts." daemonweed[121] % fortune -o -m granola %% (fortunes-o) Living in Hollywood is like living in a bowl of granola. What ain't fruits and nuts is flakes. daemonweed[122] % I don't know how long that's been in the fortune file, but I remember it from when I lived in Maryland so it's probably before 1989. -Frank McConnell

27 years, 2 months

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hamfest and HP cables

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> wrote: > I also found some HP cables. They have a DB-25 female connector and a 36 > pin Aphenol connector on the other. They have part number 13242D on them. > Anyone know what they're for? "Aphenol" connector? Does this look like it wants to fit over a card edge, or like it wants to fit a connector with ears e.g. "Centronics" printer connector? If it's for a card edge (which I think it is -- I think 13242 is the part number for this), it's the cable that goes between a 264X terminal's datacomm card and...hmm, female connector, 13242D, I'm going to guess it's to connect up to some sort of DTE-type device but I'm not sure which. -Frank McConnell

27 years, 2 months

2
1
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Hard Drive Partitions

by manney＠hmcltd.net

Yes, I guess that would have been polite to have provided more details. Sorry. These are WD Caviar IDE drives, one around 200, the other around 500, master/slave jumpers correctly set, running as single drive off IDE channel #2 on a P1 (socket 7) motherboard. Running Win95 "A". The BIOS autorecognizes both drives. Thanks for any input Manney >> I have a couple of old WD hard drives I'm trying to revitalize. They say >> they have no partitions, but when I try to lay in a partition, they say >> there's no room. >> >> Would a LLF take care of this (vide recent discussion)? > >What model drives? What model controller(s)? "Old" is a flexible >term with computers, and WD has been around through a lot of the >evolution of hard disk technology. Some combos don't work at all, >attaching a WD1003 controller to a Caviar of any size doesn't work, >for example >-- >Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/> > >WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, >and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. >

27 years, 2 months

1
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Intel 4004

by davidfreibrun＠home.com

in other words the 4004 is not a particularly collectible item huh? that is if everyone can get one at frys. -----Original Message----- From: Hans Franke <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, February 12, 1999 5:41 PM Subject: Re: Intel 4004 >> > You have an Intel 4004? Where did you obtain this? > >> Everybody in the Valley has a bunch of them, David. We get them at Fry's. > >Why do I have a strong negative feeling against you at some moments ? > >H. > >-- >Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut >HRK

27 years, 2 months

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ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altairdisk sells for... )

by edick＠idcomm.com

I'm not sure you're right about the assertion that 37 is enough. Maybe, but the old drives used more signals than the later ones. The shielded cables using the DC37 connectors certainly were more durable than the IDC50 types one often sees, but the cable hardware in the ALTAIR box certainly was the cheapest available. I doubt it was any more solid than the IDC types. Dick ---------- > From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altairdisk sells for... ) > Date: Saturday, February 13, 1999 12:38 PM > > > <What I find odd about the MITS FDD is that they used a 37-pin "D" connecto > <and cable as opposed to the 50-pin more commonly seen on the 8" types. I > <found one among a set of enclosures I bought about 20 years ago. While > > Standards and common connectors. My Vt180 (uses minifloppies) also uses > D37 on the cpu end rather than 34 or 50 pin. Reason, higher reliability > connector (more costly too). Lots of system used that as the connector > instead of the now common IDCs. > > FYI even for 8" disks of the 50, 25 lines are ground there are a few unused > and others that were not often used so 37 pins are plenty. > > Allison >

27 years, 2 months

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ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altairdisk sells for... )

by edick＠idcomm.com

There's good reason for that, namely, that the 8" FDD, for which a standard then existed, used a 50-pin cable, while there seemed to be several variations early in the mini-floppy game. The 37-pin cable you see on the IBM-PC FDC is certainly not the same, nor was it ever very important. The cable between the FDC in an S-100 box and the drives, normally 8" drives, normally packaged externally to the cardcage, was most often a 50-pin flat cable, though a 37 could have handled the task if you didn't mind that there was not a ground for every signal. The early FDD's were typically hard sectored and used more signals than were required by the later models. The insides of the ALTAIR FDD box were not simple and clean like their successors. Dick ---------- > From: Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altairdisk sells for... ) > Date: Saturday, February 13, 1999 12:49 PM > > > Well, I would not venture to suggest just where it originated, but the > 37-pin D-sub connector has pretty much (there have been exceptions) been > the standard for connecting external floppy drives of all sizes. Almost > all PC (ISA) FDCs that support external drives use it, and the Xerox 820 > (CP/M) series used it. Most S-100 crates did not, as they typically ran > the ribbon cable direct from the card to the drive. > > - don > > > On Sat, 13 Feb 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > What I find odd about the MITS FDD is that they used a 37-pin "D" connector > > and cable as opposed to the 50-pin more commonly seen on the 8" types. I > > found one among a set of enclosures I bought about 20 years ago. While > > this is already promised out (once I find the top of the box), I do know > > that there's an ALTAIR hard disk controller box, apparently with a drive > > inside, judging from the weight, at Gateway Electronics in Denver, (303) > > 458-5444, if anyone's interested. It's the same size as the ALTAIR FDD > > box. > > > > Dick > > > > ---------- > > > From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> > > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > > > Subject: RE: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for > > > Date: Friday, February 12, 1999 6:34 PM > > > > > > > > > <True enough I'm sure. MITS also produced a "mini"-floppy controller > > that > > > <was also a two board TTL set. The first board (computer interface) was > > th > > > <same board as in the 8" set (except for different RC values), the second > > > > > > Well heres where I stand on it. Never seen one, I was there, and never > > > seen an advert for one, I have back issues. Was it possible, sure. The > > 8" > > > design with some tweeks would certainly do minifloppy. > > > > > > Allison > > >

27 years, 2 months

1
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Sun 1/100U

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

Well, I'm taking a few polaroid's of a Sun 1/100U, and noticed a few strange things. First, Sun liked to place round colored stickers on the boards, and they placed the date and a persons initials on the sticker. The strange thing is, on the cpu board, the sticker is dated 3-22-81, which is 2 years before this board was created! Sun 'upgraded' these units to use sun 2 cpu's, and the company only started shipping the first Sun 1 units in May of 82, and the 3Com board has a date of 9-21-83 which makes more reasonable sense to me (I had heard that we purchased the last of the Sun 1 units and a bunch of sun 2's, as part of a package discount deal). Anyways, it seems strange. Another strange thing about that cpu card, is that sun apparently didnt have any 24 pin DIP sockets, because they placed 16 and 8 pin DIP sockets next to each other on two occasions to form a larger socket! Oh, and I've always wondered about the 3 MBIT connector on the back of the unit, which is in addition to the 10 MBIT connector. -Lawrence LeMay

27 years, 2 months

3
2
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RCS/RI

by max82＠surfree.com

Does anyone know if RCS/RI is doing anything this sunday, and if so: what time does it start, what time does it end, and where are they located? Thanks very much --Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com)

27 years, 2 months

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PDP-8/E available...

by mbg＠world.std.com

Please contact the person in the message, not me... I'm just forwarding it from the newsgroup it was posted in... - - - - - Hi Folks. I am a software engineer and a "computer history enthusiast." I am looking for another such enthusiast to take over a project which I never got started... I am looking for a good home for my Digital = PDP-8e. The setup is fairly complete. The main enclosure itself appears to be fully populated with core, and I was told when I rescued it from going to the junkyard (9 years ago) that it was still working when they took it out of commission. (I have still not yet attempted to run the machine.) I have the original DEC "instrument rack" housing, a BIG whomping power supply, a 20 MB hard disk (six or eight full-sized 12 inch platters!), dual floppy drives (those are REAL 8 inch floppies), dual "minifloppy" drives (yup, the "little" 5.25 inch ones), and probably some other hardware lurking in that corner of my garage. I also have paper tapes (but no reader) for the following: * Monitor (they now call this a BIOS) * Utilities * Fortran compiler * Assembler ( I think I've got 5 different assemblers: - plain vanilla - relocating - macro - symbolic - macro symbolic - relocating macro symbolic ) * Other assorted goodies Here's what I am offering: [0] I am willing to part with all this FREE OF CHARGE! Provided... [1] You must be serious about RESTORING and PRESERVING this important piece of computer history! [2] Computer museums get first priority; then other museums, then private individuals. Ranking within these groups will be "first come, first served." Above all, I will attempt to be fair. [3] I would prefer the whole works go as a single batch to a single person/organization. If the end result is *more than one* working PDP-8 on display in more than one place, however, then I will be more inclined to split things up. [4] You are responsible for picking up the items or arranging their shipping. I've "paid" for the storage of this for 9 years, all I ask is that you pay for the shipping or pick it up yourself. [5 I would like to come see the machine in working condition (actually doing something) when you are finished with the project. I'll arrange my own transportation -- all you have to do is supply the invitation! :-) * * * Please let me know that there is someone out there with the interest in computing history to want to restore this cool machine, and with the skills to be able to do it!! Thanks in advance, -- john baldwin --=20 John Baldwin | jt.nojunk.baldwin#radio(a)link.net To decode address when replying by email: [1]remove 'at', [2] # becomes @, [3] remove spamblocker plus both = delimiters. - - - - -

27 years, 2 months

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E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I own a copy of Minidisk BASIC and it is on a 16 sector hard sectored <diskette. I also own an Altair Minidisk drive unit that has the Altair <Quality Control tags still attached with dates ranging from 4-14-77 thru <6-31-77. < <Hope this makes sense, That is truly unique as I still have some old catalogs and newsletters >from MITS and also Byte, Interface Age, Kilobaud and there is no hint of that beast.

27 years, 2 months

1
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ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for... )

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<What I find odd about the MITS FDD is that they used a 37-pin "D" connecto <and cable as opposed to the 50-pin more commonly seen on the 8" types. I <found one among a set of enclosures I bought about 20 years ago. While Standards and common connectors. My Vt180 (uses minifloppies) also uses D37 on the cpu end rather than 34 or 50 pin. Reason, higher reliability connector (more costly too). Lots of system used that as the connector instead of the now common IDCs. FYI even for 8" disks of the 50, 25 lines are ground there are a few unused and others that were not often used so 37 pins are plenty. Allison

27 years, 2 months

1
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front panels (again)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> Here's the list I've got so far: <> <> Intel Intellec-4 <> Intel Intellec-8 <> Scelbi 8H <> Mark-8 <> Datanumerics DL8A <> Altair 8800 <> BYTE, Inc. BYT-8 (and Olson 8080) <> IMSAI 8080 (and OEM versions) <> Altair 680 <> Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1 NEC PDA-80, an 8080 development system(8080 powered). <> mini's, and I'd especially like to know which computer first used this <> human interface. All of the first machines. As to being an interface it was more of a necessity as most did not have the ROM/PROM needed to boot without manual intervention or as a diagnostic tool. Allison

27 years, 2 months

1
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Attn PC-jr Fiends!

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Guys: I have a NOS PC-jr joystick. The box is kinda messed up, but otherwise, the stick is brand new. Anybody want it? Make me an offer, private e-mail. Thanks. Jeff Jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 2 months

2
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E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for

by dougdu＠MICROSOFT.com

I'm sorry! After reading my own email it appears a little gruff. I certainly didn't mean to offend you. All I'm trying to say is that MITS did have a 5-1/4" hard sector system available. - Doug > -----Original Message----- > From: allisonp(a)world.std.com [mailto:allisonp@world.std.com] > Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 5:34 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for > > > > <True enough I'm sure. MITS also produced a "mini"-floppy > controller that > <was also a two board TTL set. The first board (computer > interface) was th > <same board as in the 8" set (except for different RC > values), the second > > Well heres where I stand on it. Never seen one, I was there, > and never > seen an advert for one, I have back issues. Was it possible, > sure. The 8" > design with some tweeks would certainly do minifloppy. > > Allison >

27 years, 2 months

1
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E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for

by dougdu＠MICROSOFT.com

The docs I have are titled "Altair 88-MDS Minidisk Documentation" they are copyright MITS, Inc. 1977 and listed as First Printing, July, 1977. The documentation describes both the controller card set and disk drive unit.

27 years, 2 months

1
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PCJr Color Diplay for adoption

by rhblake＠bigfoot.com

I have a PCJr Color Display monitor, complete with the authentic block type connector that APPEARS to be in working condition that I really need to find a good home for. Not free, but cheap enough - $10 plus the applicable USPS shipping (insurance at your request) My guess is the weight is around 26 lbs. The monitor is in great phyical shape but has NOT been tested on a Jr for picture. It does power and does give raster on the screen so I can say that it is apparently in working condition. The $10 I want for it basically covers what I have in it besides the time in locating a shipping carton and hauling it to the post office, along with the minor differences (if any) in calculated postage. This is for USA addresses only. I know people ship things outside the US all the time, but I don't have the time or the patience for the added paperwork and other thing involved in out of US shipments. Contact me by direct message please, not by replying to the list. The monitor would come from zip 40144 in cae anyone needs to sneak a look at approximate postage themselves. I hate to see a possible addtion to a Jr collection go to the dumpster because someone was too cheap to spend a few bucks on it.

27 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Blinkenlights

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

Doug wrote: << It is possible that Berkeley got the idea from working on the Univac (in the late 40's, when it was being designed by EMCC). I suspect that the earlier relay machines also used lights to help debug faulty relays, but I'm really looking for when lights were first used for output and switches used for input, similar to the way a bunch of the mini front panels worked. (It may be that Simon was the first -- I dunno.) >> Just a few weeks ago I looked at the Harvard Mark I, and I know very well the Zuse machines. No lights! John

27 years, 2 months

1
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Zeos Laptop

by Mzthompson＠aol.com

Someone gave me a ZEOS 386 laptop, Model S99102-000, circa 1990. It was in need of some minor repairs which were no problem. There is a small empty compartment of the left side, measuring 1/2" by 1 1/2" and about 4" deep and with a 20 pin edge connector at the back. Zeos support tells me that the only option for that was a 2400 baud modem and it is no longer available, which I sort of figured. I got to thinking that if that card connector were a serial port, it would not take much to fabricate a board to bring the right signals lines out to a 9 pin D connector to add a second serial port. My question is whether the 20 pin connector is a subset of the I/O bus or is it a serial port? If it is a serial port, then what is the pinout on the 20 pin connector, which signals are which pins? Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mike Thompson

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Tek 4051 and 4907

by Innfogra＠aol.com

I've been looking in my old Tek catalogues and the disk drives for the 4050 series are model number 4907, not 4097. This is from my 84 catalogue. Option 31 is three disk drives, option 30 is two disk drives and option 40 is 4052 and 4054 compatibility. Paxton

27 years, 2 months

4
4
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Intel 4004

by davidfreibrun＠home.com

You have an Intel 4004? Where did you obtain this? -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks <erd(a)infinet.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 11:42 PM Subject: Re: Intel 4004 >> >> > From: Dwight Elvey <elvey(a)hal.com> >> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >> <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> >> > Subject: Intel 4004 >> > Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 11:43 AM >> > >> > Hi All >> > I have gotten my 4004 development unit up and running. >> > In doing so, I made some tools. I have a simple >> > assembler, disassembler and a simulator. If anyone >> > would like copies of these tools, let me know. >> > Dwight > >I would *love* some 4004 tools. I have a 4004 that I plan to build >into a project someday. It came out of a non-UPC grocery store barcode >scanner I bought at the Dayton Hamfest in 1983. > >Thanks, > >-ethan

27 years, 2 months

8
8
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OT: Re: How does gigabit ethernet work?

by joe＠barrera.org

>When you're talking about "digital" signals above 500 MHz (as would be >found on gigabit ethernet twisted pairs), it is very hard to convincingly >describe them as digital. Sure, they are enocded from digital bits, and >the are decoded back into digital bits at the other end, but what happens >inbetween is analog (and basically black magic at that). While we're not on the topic, please tell me... is light "really" a particle, or "really" a wave? How about electrons? - Joe P.S. No, I am *NOT* serious, I do *NOT* want to read such a discussion.

27 years, 2 months

5
6
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Sun 1/100U ... it LIVES!

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

My Sun 1/100U lives once again... reseated the boards and realized someone had removed the ram board. I just happen to have ram boards that came from a sun 2 server, and poof! It lives! The monitor is in pretty good shape, the image is shifted a bit, but it looks like its mostly if not all visible. The main problems are: I have no idea how to enter the local prom mode, or even if there is a local prom mode.. Whups! Looks liek one way is to let the computer time out on its boot attempt. I still cant get any help on available prom commands. 'printenv' printed a small hex-dump like thing, then immediately the screen cleared and rebooted... Anyways, main problem is going to be locating the OS for this computer. Does anyone have SUN OS for a Sun 2 class computer? I forget what its called, suntools or sunview or something like that.. -Lawrence LeMay

27 years, 2 months

1
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hamfest and HP cables

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I just got back from the opening day of the Orlando hamfest. So far I picked up an Apple IIc plus, three more Compaq Portables IIIs, three HP 97s, a HP 92, two old HP catalogs and two old Tektronix catalog and this is only this first day! I also found some HP cables. They have a DB-25 female connector and a 36 pin Aphenol connector on the other. They have part number 13242D on them. Anyone know what they're for? Joe

27 years, 2 months

1
0
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APOLLO 400

by amirault＠epix.net

Hi Everyone, I got home a little while ago and have been attempting to get my 486 working with two modems. I just remembered that I wanted to get online and chat about the APOLLO. 1. The first card is a national instruments corps. assy. 180100-02 REV. J GPIB-PCII copyright 1989 2.the display board is a madel 56-3118 A-3011-56 3. Two SIMMs made in Puertico Rico 56-3118 N10106 SIX empty SIMM slots 4.Motherboard A-3050-09 3115-1152 Made in USA 5.Does anyone have a MONITOR for this or can you TELL me what type of monitor to get. 6.Can I put the harddrive in a PC W/SCSI adapter card and use it as is without reformating? 7.Compared to a PC how fast is this?(i.e> is it a 486, a P-80, P-300, 8088) Thanks for listening to me, John Amirault

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Panasonic Hand Help Computer

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Michael Grigoni <msg(a)computerpro.com> >Does anyone have any documentation... I may have some stuff your looking for. I have a HHC that was sold as a package by Kentucky Central Life Insurance ( bill of sale says for $650.) I have the: HHC, printer, touristor luggage ;) And... Manual: Model: RL-H1000/RL-H1400 Instructions for use Manual: User Manual, romPower by Pictorial, Universal Life Plus, Commonwealth Insurance Manual: Handheld Computer Instructions, Kentucky Central Life Insurance And several eproms RomPower Capital Holding Master A RomPower Capital Holding Master B RomPower Capital Holding, Classic +, Indiv. Tables KCL VIP KCLVIP Util KCL VIP Tables If you need anything... - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

27 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

M SoKit 68

by lwalker＠mail.interlog.com

In 1983 at the end of taking a digital tech course at a community college here in Toronto at George Brown CC, I spent about a month assembling and debugging a trainer kit that my prof was marketing, similar but more sophisticated than the Heathkit ET34400. It was called a M(icro)SOKit 68. It was based , of course, like the ET3400 on the M6800 CPU. Does anyone have one of these out there ? It was geared to teach students about micros by building their own micro. I know he sold a number of them, but don't know how many. I have the manual, parts #s, etc. if anyone is interested. Included in the manual is a couple of pages of layouts obviously meant to be photocopied and etched. ciao larry lwalker(a)interlog.com

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

UZI

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Okay, CP/M people: where would I find information on UZI? Someone was talki <porting it to the 6502. Simtel site or WWW.psyber.com/~tcj (uzi for z180 port). Note the bulk of UZI is in C but the devices are in ASM. Allison

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<But wasn't the mini-floppy actually produced by iCom, and then labeled as <a MITS product after Pertec acquired both MITS and iCom? What's the <copyright date on your docs? Yep, I have one of those. An Icom frugal floppy but that was 1771based. Allison

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<True enough I'm sure. MITS also produced a "mini"-floppy controller that <was also a two board TTL set. The first board (computer interface) was th <same board as in the 8" set (except for different RC values), the second Well heres where I stand on it. Never seen one, I was there, and never seen an advert for one, I have back issues. Was it possible, sure. The 8" design with some tweeks would certainly do minifloppy. Allison

27 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Graphics board APOLLO 400 Two subjects,one message

by amirault＠epix.net

HI All, I need some help please. I have an ATI small wonder graphics solution Ver. 2 P/N 18703 Rev.0 copyright 1988. I also have a DTK model PIP-151 W/8088 CPU in it and 640kb RAM. My question on these two items is> Are they compatable? If the answer to that question is yes, can, and will, someone give me the jumper settings for jumpers 1,2,3 ? If no, then what kind of adapter card do I need to hook up an IBM model 5153 monitor? I have several old moniter adapter cards. Can I increase the RAM in the DTK PIP-151 past 640kb? If yes, how? If no, thanks. On another subject I took the APOLLO 400 apart and have some numbers to ask about later, after I get to my other house, the one with the classic computers in it. John Amirault

27 years, 2 months

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860

by Xerox860＠aol.com

Dear Charles, I saw your ad on line. We have 7 or 8 860s, with spare parts for all. There were 2 versions, one with a Pl printer where the orange print button was pushed downwardly, to operate the printer; and 2) a HY-TYPE II printer, where the orange printer button was pushed from front to back to start the printer. If you have this latter version, with the very thick cable from the controller to the printer, then the printer is a HY TYPE II, a rock solid machine, like a battleship. These have a few quirks. Sometimes, the pwr. sup. burps, and you lose the boot-up. I was unable to fix this. However, if you disconnect the printer when you do your composing, backing-up, and so forth, the decreased load (printer not drawing current) will not cause this burp to occur. At least that is what we found. Hope you can get yours working. Let me know how you are doing. Thanks. Ken Lehmann, Fairfield, CT

27 years, 2 months

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wanted: 1/2" magtape cleaner

by eric＠brouhaha.com

I have some old 9-track tapes that are too grubby to read; they actually get stuck in the drive and have to be manually rewound. Does anyone have an extra magtape cleaner?

27 years, 2 months

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How does gigabit ethernet work?

by arfonrg＠texas.net

Sorry, I know this wasn't classic computer stuff but, I figured that you guys would know the answer. Let me push the question a bit more.... -How do they squeeze that much data down the line? Fiber-optics cabling only? Data multiplexing? -How do they discriminate the beginning of one packet from the end of another when running at such high speeds? >Arfon, this isn't "classic computer material." However, they work by being >very fast. There are several architectures that support multigigahertz >operation and by processing in parallel you get added avantages. Some of >the first Gbit routers had several processors one for each packet that came >in. I believe the Terabit routers are still doing this. > >--Chuck > >At 02:33 PM 2/10/99 -0600, you wrote: >>Can anyone tell me how they gigabit ethernet works? >> >>How can they get such high data transfer rate and how can the cards process >>the packets so fast??? > > >

27 years, 2 months

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S/W available

by manney＠hmcltd.net

Available is Lotus 1-2-3 V1.1 for UNIX (5 1/4" and 3 1/2" media) WordPerfect 5.1 for UNIX Make offer to manney(a)hmcltd.net

27 years, 2 months

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Poly 88

by amichael＠nortelnetworks.com

I have a Polymorphic CPU/8 board and a Video Terminal Interface, both looking a little beat up and, of course, without any documentation :-( I'd really appreciate copies of manuals so I could get them going again. The Tiny Basic sounds great too and I'd love to have the files to try to burn some eproms. Arlen Michaels ----------------- On Tue, 09 Feb 1999, Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> wrote: > Dwight Elvey wrote: > > > > Hi All > > I have an old Poly 88 ( the first single button frontpanel S-100 ). > > It has Tiny Basic in PROMs. If any out there would like to > > fill the two empty sockets on their CPU board, let me know and > > I'll have the parts read out. > > If you need docs on the Poly 88, let me know as I have the masters for > quite > a few of the Polymorphic board manuals. I don't think I have Tiny Basic in > Prom, and I would love to get a copy of the binary file! Also, I have > quite > a few of the CPU, Video, and Disk controller boards, although most seem to > be missing a few parts (they look like production boards that didn't quite > get built up all the way.) > > Marvin > > -- > Arlen Michaels amichael(a)nortelnetworks.com > > >

27 years, 2 months

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Intel in hot water again, interesting reading!

by edick＠idcomm.com

The solution's simple . . . don't use an intel processor. Goodness knows they're overpriced! Has AMD started doing this? Dick ---------- > From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: OT: Intel in hot water again, interesting reading! > Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 4:48 PM > > FYI > > > > > <http://img.cmpnet.com/tw/newsletters/scoop-top.gif> The Scoop > > http://img.cmpnet.com/tw/newsletters/blank.gif > ><http://img.cmpnet.com/tw/newsletters/blank.gif> > >http://img.cmpnet.com/tw/newsletters/blank.gif > ><http://img.cmpnet.com/tw/newsletters/blank.gif> > >http://img.cmpnet.com/tw/newsletters/blank.gif > ><http://img.cmpnet.com/tw/newsletters/blank.gif> > >By Fred Langa > >By Fred Langa > > > >InformationWeek > > > >You probably saw the original coverage of Intel's announcement that it would > >embed an individual serial number in each Pentium III and Celeron chip. The > >96-bit ID can identify the user's PC to any software that knows how to ask. > > > >Immediately after the announcement, various consumer watchdog groups went > >ballistic. Epic, the Electronic Privacy Information Center, launched a > >boycott of Intel, calling it the "Big Brother Inside" campaign. Epic says > >the processor serial number, "would likely be collected by many sites, > >indexed and accumulated in databases...The records of many different > >companies could be joined without the user's knowledge or consent to provide > >an intrusive profile of activity on the computer." > > > >Intel immediately backed off a bit by announcing that although the serial > >number would ship enabled on every chip, Intel would provide equipment > >manufacturers with a small software applet that could be used to prevent > >access to the number. However, the software must work (it hasn't been tested > >yet); it must be properly installed on each PC; and it must be run after > >every reboot. > > > >Epic says that because this approach "relies on a software patch that must > >run each and every time that a user turns on the computer, it is susceptible > >to tampering by other software programs." So, Epic's boycott is still in > >place: The group insists that Intel should disable the processor serial > >number at the hardware level, where it will stay disabled until the PC owner > >turns it on. > > > >To further muddy the waters, the processor serial number may not be very > >secure. CMP Media's Electronic Engineering Times quoted cryptography expert > >Bruce Schneier, who talked about the prospect that the serial numbers can be > >forged or stolen: "A system is only as secure as the smartest hacker," he > >said. "All it takes is for one person to defeat the tamper resistance. > >There's always someone who manages to unravel the protection. There isn't a > >copy-protected piece of software that hasn't been stripped of its > >protections and posted to hacker bulletin boards. This won't be any > >different." (For the full story, go to "Intel ID Protection Scheme Called > >Insufficient.") > > > >Of course, there are legitimate and useful purposes for this kind of ID, > >especially for resource-tracking within an enterprise. Indeed, some > >workstation manufacturers already include similar functions on their > >enterprise-ready boxes, and some enterprise software products use these > >serial numbers for licensing. But Intel is attempting to broaden this > >practice to an unprecedented degree by putting the ID number on every chip > >and enabling it by default. Toss in only weak assurances of the serial > >number's security and only a weak turn-off option, and you're got a > >firestorm of protests. > > > >Last week, I conducted an informal online poll among the readers of Windows > >Magazine. The reaction was eye-opening: Out of hundreds of posts, virtually > >all were vehemently anti-Intel. And in that huge majority, most people swore > >their next PC purchase would be AMD-based, until and unless Intel either > >removes the processor serial number or allows it to be disabled in hardware. > >One reader suggested the clever idea of resurrecting the old "turbo" switch > >approach and placing a simple serial number enable/disable button on the > >front of every PC. (You can read more on the controversy and see reader > >reaction at Windows Magazine: Big Brother Inside?.) > > > >I was amazed at the absolute intensity of the reader posts. It's as though > >the processor serial number was the last straw for many people: Intel's > >history of high prices and other public relations fumbles (like the > >floating-point math bug) seem to have built up a huge reservoir of > >resentment that's now spilling over. I think we're seeing the start of a > >strong anti-Intel backlash, analogous to the anti-Microsoft fervor that's > >changing the operating system landscape. > > > >Fred Langa is a senior consulting editor and columnist for Windows Magazine. > >Fred's free weekly newsletter is available via subscribe(a)langa.com > ><mailto:subscribe@langa.com> . You can contact him at fred(a)langa.com > ><mailto:fred@langa.com> or via his website at http://www.langa.com > ><http://www.langa.com> . http://www.techweb.com/ <http://www.techweb.com/> > >

27 years, 2 months

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UZI

by ckaiser＠oa.ptloma.edu

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27 years, 2 months

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E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for $102.50!

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 09:36 AM 2/10/99 -0800, Sam wrote: > >That does it. I'm pulling out an old dot matrix printer from my >collection and an Apple //e. I'm then going to design a label that looks >just like the one on the disk in that auction and print a bunch up. Then >I'm going to figure out how to make it aged a little (or why even >bother...I'll just say its in "excellent condition"). I will then sell >these disks on ebay every other week. > >Don't say I didn't warn you. No, don't say excellant condition, just say unknown condition. That way no one can say that you ripped them off. Just remember that they're hard sectored disks with 10 sectors. I just found a box of them in a surplus store a couple of days ago. Joe

27 years, 2 months

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E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<I haven't seen a V7.x VMS source kit, but the V6.1 kit that I have comes o <2 CDs which are pretty much full. Makes interesting reading on cold winter <nights... < <Interestingly the licence you sign before gaining access to the source CDs <says something along the lines of "I promise never to sell/give/other thes <CDs away". I doubt anyone would give them away as the license to see whats on them was at last call well over $3000(US)! The distribution kit fits easily on one CD though. Allison

27 years, 2 months

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OT: Intel in hot water again, interesting reading!

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

FYI > > <http://img.cmpnet.com/tw/newsletters/scoop-top.gif> The Scoop > http://img.cmpnet.com/tw/newsletters/blank.gif ><http://img.cmpnet.com/tw/newsletters/blank.gif> >http://img.cmpnet.com/tw/newsletters/blank.gif ><http://img.cmpnet.com/tw/newsletters/blank.gif> >http://img.cmpnet.com/tw/newsletters/blank.gif ><http://img.cmpnet.com/tw/newsletters/blank.gif> >By Fred Langa >By Fred Langa > >InformationWeek > >You probably saw the original coverage of Intel's announcement that it would >embed an individual serial number in each Pentium III and Celeron chip. The >96-bit ID can identify the user's PC to any software that knows how to ask. > >Immediately after the announcement, various consumer watchdog groups went >ballistic. Epic, the Electronic Privacy Information Center, launched a >boycott of Intel, calling it the "Big Brother Inside" campaign. Epic says >the processor serial number, "would likely be collected by many sites, >indexed and accumulated in databases...The records of many different >companies could be joined without the user's knowledge or consent to provide >an intrusive profile of activity on the computer." > >Intel immediately backed off a bit by announcing that although the serial >number would ship enabled on every chip, Intel would provide equipment >manufacturers with a small software applet that could be used to prevent >access to the number. However, the software must work (it hasn't been tested >yet); it must be properly installed on each PC; and it must be run after >every reboot. > >Epic says that because this approach "relies on a software patch that must >run each and every time that a user turns on the computer, it is susceptible >to tampering by other software programs." So, Epic's boycott is still in >place: The group insists that Intel should disable the processor serial >number at the hardware level, where it will stay disabled until the PC owner >turns it on. > >To further muddy the waters, the processor serial number may not be very >secure. CMP Media's Electronic Engineering Times quoted cryptography expert >Bruce Schneier, who talked about the prospect that the serial numbers can be >forged or stolen: "A system is only as secure as the smartest hacker," he >said. "All it takes is for one person to defeat the tamper resistance. >There's always someone who manages to unravel the protection. There isn't a >copy-protected piece of software that hasn't been stripped of its >protections and posted to hacker bulletin boards. This won't be any >different." (For the full story, go to "Intel ID Protection Scheme Called >Insufficient.") > >Of course, there are legitimate and useful purposes for this kind of ID, >especially for resource-tracking within an enterprise. Indeed, some >workstation manufacturers already include similar functions on their >enterprise-ready boxes, and some enterprise software products use these >serial numbers for licensing. But Intel is attempting to broaden this >practice to an unprecedented degree by putting the ID number on every chip >and enabling it by default. Toss in only weak assurances of the serial >number's security and only a weak turn-off option, and you're got a >firestorm of protests. > >Last week, I conducted an informal online poll among the readers of Windows >Magazine. The reaction was eye-opening: Out of hundreds of posts, virtually >all were vehemently anti-Intel. And in that huge majority, most people swore >their next PC purchase would be AMD-based, until and unless Intel either >removes the processor serial number or allows it to be disabled in hardware. >One reader suggested the clever idea of resurrecting the old "turbo" switch >approach and placing a simple serial number enable/disable button on the >front of every PC. (You can read more on the controversy and see reader >reaction at Windows Magazine: Big Brother Inside?.) > >I was amazed at the absolute intensity of the reader posts. It's as though >the processor serial number was the last straw for many people: Intel's >history of high prices and other public relations fumbles (like the >floating-point math bug) seem to have built up a huge reservoir of >resentment that's now spilling over. I think we're seeing the start of a >strong anti-Intel backlash, analogous to the anti-Microsoft fervor that's >changing the operating system landscape. > >Fred Langa is a senior consulting editor and columnist for Windows Magazine. >Fred's free weekly newsletter is available via subscribe(a)langa.com ><mailto:subscribe@langa.com> . You can contact him at fred(a)langa.com ><mailto:fred@langa.com> or via his website at http://www.langa.com ><http://www.langa.com> . http://www.techweb.com/ <http://www.techweb.com/> >

27 years, 2 months

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Hard Drive Partitions

by manney＠hmcltd.net

I have a couple of old WD hard drives I'm trying to revitalize. They say they have no partitions, but when I try to lay in a partition, they say there's no room. Would a LLF take care of this (vide recent discussion)? Thanks manney

27 years, 2 months

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Recent aquisitions

by spc＠armigeron.com

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27 years, 2 months

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E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for

by dougdu＠MICROSOFT.com

True enough I'm sure. MITS also produced a "mini"-floppy controller that was also a two board TTL set. The first board (computer interface) was the same board as in the 8" set (except for different RC values), the second board was completely different. I have the MITS docs for the "mini"-floppy system and it is documented as a hard sectored using 16 sectors per track. I also have an Altair Mini-Floppy BASIC disk and it is also hard sectored with 16 sector holes. - Doug > -----Original Message----- > No. The original disk for the altair before they became > Pertec Computers > was an 8" system using two boards of TTL. I know I built > three of them in > that era and debugged a few more. All if the later Pertec > machines with > minifloppies had a board that used a 1771 plus a raft of ttl. > > I might add the Pertec controller was sold before the Pertec > aquired MITS. > > > Allison >

27 years, 2 months

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