- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- allisonp(a)world.std.com wrote: > RXV11 is only compatable with the DEC RX01. The H11 Floppy used a Heath > interface. If you use the heath floppy with RXV11 nothing happens. OK. I'll go back to the card and get it working. Worst case, I'll pull all the sockets and solder in machine-pin ones. I'd rather not; it's lots of work. I observed substantial oxidation of the plating on the ICs I did remove and test (I can't test DEC bus chips with my IC tester, only CMOS, TTL and DRAM). > Get manuals for it! you'll save pain. Any pointers on where to lay hands on H-11 docs? > > Finally, eventually, I want to get original stuff back into this box. > The original was DLV11 compatable but it was HEATH design, not as durable. It looks dodgy, but then most of the Heath stuff looks less solid to me. > The H11: > > DEC M7294 11/03 (Quad width card with 4k ram on board) Got it. > This was the ONLY dec made card in it. > > Heath Memory, several version were available 4k early, 16k later. Don't got it. I have several 32Kw and 128Kw boards from 11/23s, etc., and a few 4kW and 16kW boards from my LSI-11s (knee-high formica-topped rolly DEC cabs w/RX01 and 11/03 inside). > Heath floppy controller/interface card. > > The last one is interesting as the heath disk <8"> used a z80 in the > floppy box to do the low-level disk interface and the ribbon went back > a simple interface that was mostly a parallel card. The card itself is about as simple as any Qbus card. It is, I take it, supposed to be nominally RXV11 compatible from a driver standpoint, yes? If not, then that's part of my problem. I do boot, the disks to appear to read in an OS, then the system hangs, but that could be as a result of my card only working if it is *not* at the end of an unbroken grant chain (with a gap in the bus, the disks read but the system does not boot; without a gap in the bus, the CPU does not even bring up the boot message). > It was RX01 compatable in one mode and had a HEATH specific mode. Software or hardware selected? > The drives were known for clamps that died with age and heat load pads that > fell off. So far, the only problem I appear to have is that the belt on DX1 has either broken or fallen off. The motor is turning, but not the hub. I haven't pulled the drive to check yet. On the bright side, the mechanisms appear to have a 50-pin edge connector, suggesting that they are standard from that standpoint. I expect that the hub motors are either 110V or 24V. > It could do one thing a RX01 could not, low level format a blank disk. I did spot the obvious format switch on the front of the disk unit, but no idea how to use it. I now wish that I'd picked up a couple more boxes of media from a friend's business about eight years ago. He had a pallet of 8" disks that he was selling for more money that I was willing to pay. Eventually, he gave me a case - my choice. I grabbed a 24" long box full of pre-formatted disks, the only one on the pile. When he disposed of the remainder, I didn't make a trip out there to grab any boxes. :-( > At some point I plan to assemble a H11 system. I have 11/03 cpu, RAM, > serial cards and backplane from one. One of the gems I have in the Heath pile is an unassembled backplane. I don't know if all the connectors are there or not and I don't have a second case for it, but I've got at least part of one to "attract" the rest of it. -ethan > Allison ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 4 months

4
5
0 0

DG Nova 3 & LSI-11

by karlm＠blitzen.ise.canberra.edu.au

Hi all, A most interesting find was unearthed this afternoon, a DG Nova 3 with it's CDC platter drive! Not knowing much about the Nova series of computers, exactly what would be required to make it work? Also found was a home-built Q-Bus PDP-11 with RX50 drives, a M8192 CPU Module (What -11 is it?) an RQDX3 controller, a DEC card labelled M7546 and a card labelle "CTBC Computer Plus 1986" with a connector that leads to a homemade switch a LED setup. Any Clues? Cheers Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Karl Maftoum Computer Engineering student at the University of Canberra, Australia Email: k.maftoum(a)student.canberra.edu.au

26 years, 4 months

2
2
0 0

Heathkit H-11 restoration questions

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

><> The M8189 was available as two basic versions 11/23 and the plus. The ><> primary difference was what it could boot. >< ><I don't think Alison means 11/23 and 11/23plus; the 11/23 uses a ><dual-height M8186 (KDF11-A) board. But the M8189 was used in both ><11/23plus (BA11-N box, IIRC) and microPDP11/23 (BA23 box). The difference ><was just the boot ROMs, as she said. > >No I meant what I said. > > M8186 KDF-11A 11/23 No serial or boot/diag roms > Depending on rev either 18bit or 22bit (if no MMU then 16bit) > > M8189 KDF-11BA 11/23B serial + boot diag roms. No MSCP boot. > M8189 KDF-11BB 11/23+ Same board different boot roms. Boots MSCP > Both are Q22 though early versions were packaged as Q18 You might want to look at your original quote again, Allison. It sounds like you claim you said "The M8189 was available as two versions, the M8186 and the M8189". Isn't that like saying "The Mercedes is available as two versions, the Mercedes and the Chrysler"? Yeah, sure, they might share some things in common, but they *aren't* the same board by any stretch of the imagination! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

Floppy disks again

by Philip.Belben＠powertech.co.uk

>> QD is a misnomer, it really means DSDD 80-track, and the figure of 720K >> relates to 9 sectors per track, 512 bytes per sector. > > QD was 96tpi TWO SIDED. There were two formats, 720k and 780k. Come on, Allison, read the message before hitting the shift key. He said two sided (embedded in the word "DSDD"). Some (Wabash?) QD disks I saw were labelled "96/100 tpi 77/80 track" or words to that effect. As for the two sided bit, try telling that to a Commodore 8050! This drive got 500k onto one side of a QD disk and ignored the other completely. I forget the format, but the number of sectors increased towards the outside edge of the disk... > There were three basic soft sector medias, 35track (small window for > head), 40 track (larger window) and the 600o 1.2mb. Obviously there were > flavors of single and two side good media. Most large window was two > sides good and worked in everything save for the odd 1.2mb drives. Eh? What about QD? Which was that? It wasn't 35 or 40 track, but 77 or 80. Given the Wabash label quoted above, can you confirm absolutely that the number of tracks was a variation in head window? Philip. ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. Power Technology Centre, Ratcliffe-on-Soar, Nottingham, NG11 0EE, UK Tel: +44 (0)115 936 2000 http://www.powertech.co.uk **********************************************************************

26 years, 4 months

4
5
0 0

Heathkit H-11 restoration questions

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 4, 23:31, Allison J Parent wrote: M8189 KDF-11BA 11/23B serial + boot diag roms. No MSCP boot. Ah yes, I'd foprgotten about that one... I must have five different sets of boot ROMs for KDJ-11Bs -- including a set transferred to a modified BDV11 to use with an -11A. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Heathkit H-11 restoration questions

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> The M8189 was available as two basic versions 11/23 and the plus. The <> primary difference was what it could boot. < <I don't think Alison means 11/23 and 11/23plus; the 11/23 uses a <dual-height M8186 (KDF11-A) board. But the M8189 was used in both <11/23plus (BA11-N box, IIRC) and microPDP11/23 (BA23 box). The difference <was just the boot ROMs, as she said. No I meant what I said. M8186 KDF-11A 11/23 No serial or boot/diag roms Depending on rev either 18bit or 22bit (if no MMU then 16bit) M8189 KDF-11BA 11/23B serial + boot diag roms. No MSCP boot. M8189 KDF-11BB 11/23+ Same board different boot roms. Boots MSCP Both are Q22 though early versions were packaged as Q18 I have multiple copies of all three plus 11/2 (KD-11-H M7270) and 11/03 (KD-11, M7264). My 11/73 is the M8190. Allison

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Different diskette formats (was: Wanted: MicroBee computer

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 4, 16:30, allisonp(a)world.std.com wrote: > Subject: Re: Different diskette formats (was: Wanted: MicroBee computer > > BTW, Allison recently referred to "hundreds" of different formats. Our > > estimate is abour 2500! XenoCopy-PC currently supports 400. > > No arguement here. I was talking media, drive and physical format. Add > OS and things like sectornumbering and skewing... gee, only 2500? ;) > > As a direct result of that there are very few 5.25 formats implmented in > my room and I try to keep it to the bare minimum. I've gone as far as to > modify systems for 3.5" drives and lock in on the more limited numbers of > formats used there. The 5.25" market was both standard and nonportable > at the same time and was a constant source of annoyance. > > Now if it's 5.25 it will be VT180, Visual1050, Kaypro 1/II, RX50, RX33 or > I use only of many tools to copy down to native for that machine. Or at > least the common ones in that pack. I have the same sort of problem. Even when considering just one manufacturer, there can be a fair range of formats. Commodore formats come to mind, but in my case I have a lot of Acorn equipment, and I have 5.25" disks that are 100K (SSSD 40 track 10 sectors/track 256 bytes/sector), 160K (SSDD 40 track 16 sectors/track 256 bytes/sector), 200K (DSSD 40 track 10 sectors/track 256 bytes/sector), 320K (both DSDD 40 track, and SSDD 80 track), 640K (DSDD 80 track). Then there are 3.5" disks 640K (same format as the 5.25"), 800K (DSDD 80 track 5 sectors/track 1024 bytes/sector), and 1.6M (DSHD 80 track 5 sectors/track 1024 bytes/sector). Several of these have different possible directory structures, too. The later machines can also read/write most of the "standard" MS-DOS formats. To keep it halfway manageable, I tend to copy anything Acorn I get to one of the two most common formats. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Classic power!

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

In the past few months, I've been heavily involved with upgrading some CAT scanners that date from the late 70's. I've mostly been involved with the PDP-11 side, but bolted onto the PDP-11 (or, actually, the other way around) there's a custom piece of hardware (two dozen hex-height cards) that does all the heavy number crunching. Backprojection is what the process is called, and it's basically a deconvolution of the data measured by the individual detectors to make the pretty picture of your insides that a CAT scanner displays. The power and speed of this classic hardware is quite impressive, considering it's nearly 20 years old now. We've been timing other approaches to backprojection, and if we implement the same algorithm that the custom hardware is doing but on a modern 533 MHz Pentium III, we discover that the custom hardware is twice as fast as the Pentium. There are some other competing technologies, making use of DSP chips, which promise to be faster, but at a substantial development cost. Is this a fair comparison? Maybe not! The Pentium system costs roughly $2000, while the custom backprojection hardware was several hundred thousand dollars back in the late 70's. The PC boards that make up the backprojector make use of a unique technology: the PC boards themselves are just plain old two-layer boards, with the actual PC traces carrying only power and ground. All the actual wiring is done by fine machine-laid wiring between pads, with all the wire layers "potted" in a plastic compound. Obviously, reworking such a PC board is extremely difficult, but it gives impressive component densities for the time. The modern equivalent of this is multi-layer PC boards, naturally. Of course, there's another sort of power involved too: the custom backprojection hardware requires +5V at 350 Amps, and some installations have multiple backprojectors! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

6
5
0 0

Floppy disks again

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<> I have em. Both 10 sector NS* format (no even for $20 I dont give them <> up) and also some of my TI99/4a likely others that I'd have bought aroun < <Wow! What brand of diskettes were they? All the NS diskettes I've seen <have the standard windows, but I think they were just 3M and Verbatim <diskettes. Actually a mix of NS* hard sector and some soft sector, Shugart, dysan, Verbatum, memorex and 3M, looking at them. It's a standards thing. At the time 1978 35 track was the standard, 40 wasn't far behind but it was different in that the media had to have a longer opening to work right. Allison

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Classic power!

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<This was known by the trademark "Multiwire", and was often used for <quick-turn production. DEC used it on a few boards in the KL10-PV <processor; later revisions of the same boards were conventional PCBs. that was it. It's had two characteristics, high density and lines could cross (it was insulated). Since the "inner layers" were power and ground they were easy to modify (wires could be seen and removed or cut) and the transmission line characteristics were better than the then vogue 2 layer boards. All the lead holes were plated through as were any vias. Allison

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Ahhh!

by mbg＠world.std.com

I grabbed a copy of the picture... a little dark... I had to do some adjustments to it... What I see are: o Two H960 tall cabs o One cab has 4 RL series drives in it (pretty obvious) o The other has what appears to be a pdp-8/e/f and two pdp-8/A's, both with the programmer console. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Heathkit H-11 restoration questions

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- allisonp(a)world.std.com wrote: > > The fact that the machine hangs solid when the card is where it's > > supposed to be may be a clue that the it's permanently stuck interrupting. > > Depending on backplane the grant may not end-up where you guess it is. I was assuming a sinusoidal AB-AB chain starting from the slots labelled "A" and "B" (out of A, B, C, and D). Now... the one twist is that the cards are installed with the CPU facing the bottom of the cage (solder side up), but the keys on the backplane connectors are a dead giveaway. > My memory is fuzzy on this but I think Ht-11 (heath os) did not like RTC > <line event> interrupt and would hang on that. Hmm... I don't have any HT-11 disks, only RT-11. But the LTC *was* enabled. > Yes, also DLV11 or the heath serial card both should have HALT on BREAK > enabled. <both support it as do the 11/03> I didn't even try that. For now, because of bootstrap considerations, I'm running with an 11/23plus CPU and a VT-220 (because it's close). Speaking of bootstraps, what did the H-11 come with stock? BDV-11? Custom Heath board? -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 4 months

3
2
0 0

A GT40 thought

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1306 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991004/6a849db1/at…

26 years, 4 months

2
2
0 0

Heathkit H-11 restoration questions

by mbg＠world.std.com

>Yes it was or in a later time frame m8186 (kdf11, 11/23) with m8044s. >that workes better than 11/23+ (m8189) as it was a dual solution and the >hath backplane was rather cramped. Mine actually has an 11/53+ board in it... :-) I do have the H27 board and drives and a heath serial line board, though I use a DLV11-J and and -E in it. I also have an RQDX3 connected to a table-top RD54 nowadays... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

DEC GT40 original list price?

by mbg＠world.std.com

>By the way, I am curious where you got your lander program... I ask >because a few years back, I contacted Jack (via a pointer from the >Computer Museum in Boston), and what he had was a 9 -Track tape that he >had gotten from someone who had preserved a copy while he was at the >University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. He sent me the tape, and I read it >and returned the contents to him, including the lander program, some demo >programs, etc. The version I have is the one I obtained back in 1975 or so... one that Jack and I worked on when I was a student at WPI and he was visiting the college for some reason... The ME department had a GT44 (11/40 based system with a VT11 and VR14) and we did some work on it to fix some intensity problems with the thrust and directional control bars as well as getting it to work with a programmable clock. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

26 years, 4 months

2
2
0 0

Any good dumpsters or surplus stores in Philly?

by bobstek＠ix.netcom.com

I will be in Philadelphia all day Friday with nothing but time on my hands. Can anyone recommend any good hunting grounds for 1975 - 1985 micro's or micro magazines? Bob Stek bobstek(a)ix.netcom.com Saver of Lost SOLs

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Old Apple II, Commodore Amiga & Vic 20 Computers available

by dheap＠metz.une.edu.au

The above may be of some interest to list subscribers in Australia: ------------------------------------ The School of Psychology has some old computer gear which is of no commercial value. The items include: Apple II with various interface cards, MicronEye video camera, printer Commodore Amiga computers and accessories Commodore Vic 20 Computers and accessories These items may or may not be in working order, but may be of interest to someone who collects ancient computers. I'd hate to have to throw them in the big green bin. If interested please contact me, or one of the Psychology Technical staff. -- Dave Heap mailto:dheap@metz.une.edu.au School of Psychology, <= postal address University of New England, phone: + 61 2 6773 2587 fax: + 61 2 6773 3820 Armidale NSW 2351, Australia http://metz.une.edu.au/~dheap/

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Help wanted in dumping EPROMs

by mark_k＠iname.com

Hi, Does anyone in the UK have access to equipment capable of dumping the data >from 27C020 PLCC EPROMs? I have several which I want to preserve the data from. If you do, please contact me. (Alternatively, loan of a PLCC-to-DIP adapter for EPROMs would be just fine...) Bye, -- Mark

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Classic power!

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com wrote: > In the past few months, I've been heavily involved with upgrading > some CAT scanners that date from the late 70's... > > The PC boards that make up the backprojector make use of a unique > technology: the PC boards themselves are just plain old two-layer boards, > with the actual PC traces carrying only power and ground. All the actual > wiring is done by fine machine-laid wiring between pads, with all > the wire layers "potted" in a plastic compound. The last design a former employer did was with a technology derived from this, Augat's Unilayer. We sent them gerber plots and a couple of weeks later (for an outrageous sum of money), we got back ten VAXBI 68010-based communications boards. Our break-even cost on a custom 10-layer (yes... DEC specified ten layers) was in the neighborhood of 20-25 boards. We never sold out of these VAX-BI units, so it was a worthwhile way to go. The actual construction was of two "decals" with embedded wires. Once spun, they were laid onto a perforated board and tacked down to small solder pads next to the holes, most of which had spring inserts in them. One defective board turned out to be a missing insert, thus, no electrical contact between pin and wire. A quick fix. We did re-work these - there was one ECO of a cut and a 1" jump. No fun, even with the microscope. I still have the boards. One of these days, I'll scan them in with the rest of our DEC<->IBM product line (PDP-11/04's in the *real* old days, custom 68K boards to the end in the 1990's). -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Canon Cat Work Processor

by accentontravel＠juno.com

Hello, We are looking for one or more Canon Cats to backup/replace existing working units in our office. Can you help or advise? I found your e-mail address on the Web while searching for info on the Cats. Regards, Ted Blishak First Cabin Holidays, Inc. dba Accent On Travel-USA 3939 S Sixth St., PMB 331, Klamath Falls, OR 97603 ph 541 885 7330 800 347 0645 fax 541 883 6457 http://www.trainweb.com/aot

26 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

Ahh!

by lemay＠cs.umn.edu

Holy gods of computing! I just spotted a PDP8/e system thats available! Its at times like this, that I really wish I had a working car... Ah well, I'll have to convince some local friends to help me out. I REALLY want a working PDP8/e... -Lawrence LeMay

26 years, 4 months

6
8
0 0

Important: email change: please read

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Hi! I just changed ISPs, because my previous one was unreliable. With the change of ISP's, the email that is currently subscribed to classiccmp will also be gone in about a month, if not less. I would like to know how to unsubscribe and resubscribe to classiccmp, to prevent the listserv screw-ups that would happen when the email address dissappears into oblivion. Thanx, -Jason ( general-1(a)home.com )

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

AT&T PC3600 display problems

by roblwill＠usaor.net

I just got an old AT&T PC 3600, but the monitor won't power up (no display activity at all). There used to be a VGA commected to the computer through another card, but the card was removed. Is it a possibility that the main video card (with the 25 pin connector) was somehow disabled? If so, How do I re-enable it? It doesn't appear that power is getting to the monitor. ThAnX, -Jason ( general-1(a)home.com )

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

8-inch floppy availability

by edick＠idcomm.com

This is quite tangential to the subject, but since it relates to 8" floppies, I'll proceed. I have, among many other things, a box from SMS, which originally was an SMS FT400 "floppy terminal" (their nomenclature for a standalone FDC with two drives in a powered enclosure) from which I removed one of two power supplies, this one intended to power the 8X300-controlled 8" drive interface board, capable of both single and double-density, and, though it didn't have them in it, supposedly double-sided drives as well. The box has sat outside and the label has been discolored and faded by the sun for the past 10 years. Nevertheless, it's a solid and convenient package for otherwise unusable (due to the packaging trend which shifted from vertical to horizontal mounting for 8" drives, and resulted in the narrower "-R" type frame for 8" drives) "standard-frame" drives, of which I have a few, having recently aligned and cleaned a whole bunch for distribution to wherever. I'd like opinions, taking into consideration that the labels are faded to an almost unrecognizable state, as to whether it would be more desirable, from the standpoint of a collector, to restore the original power supply and controller board, along with the original model 800-2 drives, to the enclosure and use it with the standard parallel (several of them, and NOT a PC parallel port!) port interface or would it be more sensible to save the effort of reinstalling the controller power supply (the drive supply is still in there!) and the controller, and the interface panel from the back (if I find it), as opposed to simply cleaning it up and replacing the discolored vinyl panels with aluminum ones painted to match the box and maybe using the box to house a single-board computer using the drives in the box. The controller/drive combination in a standalone box was what enabled me, back in '79-'80, with the aid of Wayne Wall to write the drivers, to attach a totally unsupported 6502 system to these drives and run the APEX OS written back then by Peter Boyle for his Digital Group system, which this one emulated to large extent. I find this an attractive prospect, but can't find a sound reason for it, since I don't intend to resurrect the original host system. Maybe I'm overlooking something, though. Any suggestions? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks <ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 1:09 PM Subject: Re: 8-inch floppy availability > > >--- CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com wrote: >> Ethan Dicks wrote: >> >> >I did spot the obvious format switch on the front of the disk unit, but no >> >idea how to use it. I now wish that I'd picked up a couple more boxes of >> >media from a friend's business about eight years ago. >> >> What part of the world are you in, Ethan? > >For the moment, Ohio, but occasionally from various points in the Southern >Hemisphere. > >> Here in North America, new 8" floppies (preformatted, even) are readily >> available from a number of sources. > >I know they are available for enough money. I was lamenting the fact that I >could have picked up a bootload for nothing and never had to buy another disk >again. I have a case of formatted disks and several cases of used disks with >data files from schools and at least one university lab that I can reformat >and test. > >Mostly, I want to be able to extract the data *from* the floppies, not put >more data *on* them. I hope to stuff an 8" drive from my DataRam Q22 box >on an old 486 for data recovery, then back up my crate of PDP-8 and PDP-11 >floppies. > >-ethan > > >===== >Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. >Please send all replies to > > erd(a)iname.com >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Floppy disks again

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

Eric wrote: >Allison wrote about 5.25 inch diskettes with small (35-track) head windows: >> I have em. Both 10 sector NS* format (no even for $20 I dont give them >> up) and also some of my TI99/4a likely others that I'd have bought around >Wow! What brand of diskettes were they? All the NS diskettes I've seen >have the standard windows, but I think they were just 3M and Verbatim >diskettes. The first 5.25" floppies I ever used were actually Shugart brand. After all, they were the only company selling 5.25" drives at the time. (Similarly, all my early 8" floppies are IBM brand.) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

AT&T PC 6300 Plus Unix box

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

On 29 Sep 1999, somebody who should know better wrote: ] > Yesterday I scooped an AT&T PC 6300 Unix machine on its way ] ] It's not a Unix machine. (Or, at least, not a very good one.) ] Perhaps you're thinking of the 7300? Well, its former owner called it a 6300 Unix machine, its cover has "6300 PLUS" printed on it in nice big letters, and the floppies that I got with it have preprinted labels like this: AT&T Unix(R) System V Release 2.0 AT&T Personal Computer 6300 PLUS What do you think? Is it a 6300 PLUS? Is it a Unix machine? Maybe it isn't a very good Unix machine. Still, I'd like to get it to boot and come to my own conclusions. Help is welcome. Remember people, this is an "oldies" list. If some machine here isn't fast/good/new enough for you, maybe you accidentally subscribed to the wrong list? Please try to contain the knee-jerk put-downs. Bill.

26 years, 4 months

5
8
0 0

Ahh!

by fauradon＠mn.mediaone.net

I've got a van If I may be of any help, let me know I'm in Burnsville (not too far from John) Francois -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence LeMay <lemay(a)cs.umn.edu> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, October 04, 1999 12:56 PM Subject: Ahh! >Holy gods of computing! I just spotted a PDP8/e system thats available! > >Its at times like this, that I really wish I had a working car... Ah well, >I'll have to convince some local friends to help me out. I REALLY want >a working PDP8/e... > >-Lawrence LeMay >

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Wanted: MicroBee computer

by jolminkh＠nsw.bigpond.net.au

I'm confused. I thought they were the same. What do you mean by Beehive? If this is related to the Beehive section of the Walnut Creek CDRom, then I see the file \beehive\text\member.txt has an Australian address in it. "Australian" Microbees are quite common here (because I'm in Sydney !) but not in going condition. The consoles are easy but the power supply, disk drives and software are difficult, probably because many were in schools where they were networked. All I've seen were CP/M. I've never seen one with basic but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Hans -----Original Message----- From: Don Maslin <donm(a)cts.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, 4 October 1999 8:35 Subject: Re: Wanted: MicroBee computer > > >On Sun, 3 Oct 1999, Roberto Waltman wrote: > >> I would like to buy a MicroBee machine, preferably >> one running CP/M, but one of the earlier/smaller >> BASIC ROM based models would be considered >> also. >> >> Roberto Waltman >> rwaltman(a)bellatlantic.net >> > >Don't forget that there are U.S. Microbees (Beehive) and Australian >Microbees. I think (?) they are related in name only. > > - don > >

26 years, 4 months

4
3
0 0

Floppy disks again

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I've seen plenty of DRIVES that couldn't step past tracks 34-36, but >that was a mechanical limitation of the drive. Actually, all SA390/400-type drives I've seen (which are nominally limited to 35 tracks) can step to a 36th track without any difficulties, and most can go to the 37th. The "36th track" trick was very common on Apple ]['s, both for copy protection and for general use. I've noticed that most decent data forensics tools (Anadisk, etc.) will go the the 81st track on a 80-track drive, though I've never seen a floppy that actually had data out there. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

Heathkit H-11 restoration questions

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com wrote: > The RXV11 doesn't do DMA, I didn't think so, but I wasn't sure. > and while booting it may not need interrupts. Typically not in my experience with 2BSD drivers. > The fact that the machine hangs solid when the card is where it's > supposed to be may be a clue that the it's permanently stuck interrupting. That's jibes with my hypothesis. > Does the Heath machine at least have a "halt" button so you can > get down to console ODT ("@" prompt) and do further debugging from there? Yes, but it's been years since I've ODTed. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

8-inch floppy availability

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > >I did spot the obvious format switch on the front of the disk unit, but no > >idea how to use it. I now wish that I'd picked up a couple more boxes of > >media from a friend's business about eight years ago. > > What part of the world are you in, Ethan? For the moment, Ohio, but occasionally from various points in the Southern Hemisphere. > Here in North America, new 8" floppies (preformatted, even) are readily > available from a number of sources. I know they are available for enough money. I was lamenting the fact that I could have picked up a bootload for nothing and never had to buy another disk again. I have a case of formatted disks and several cases of used disks with data files from schools and at least one university lab that I can reformat and test. Mostly, I want to be able to extract the data *from* the floppies, not put more data *on* them. I hope to stuff an 8" drive from my DataRam Q22 box on an old 486 for data recovery, then back up my crate of PDP-8 and PDP-11 floppies. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Ahh!

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>This is the image that I spotted this morning, lets see what everyone >thinks. I cant take all the stuff even in my dreams, unfortunately. But >I'll see what it takes to get that cpu unit at the very least. > > http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~lemay/elec10-1.jpg Please, please, don't grab the CPU and let the disk drives rot. There are way too many folks on this list who've made that mistake in the past and now have a pretty box that they can't run an operating system on. The pictures are obviously very low-res, but here's my guess at what's there: The rack on the left looks to have an 11/04 or 11/34 on the top, an 8/E or 8/F below it, and it appears that there's another 11/04 or 11/34 below that. (I could be wrong about the 11/04 or /34 identification - they might be generic rack-mount boxes.) The rack on the right has 4 RL01's or RL02's in it. (The one on the top is a RL01, can't see any labels on the three below it.) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Looking for a couple of bits....

by peter.pachla＠vectrex.freeserve.co.uk

Hi again, I've been unable to send e-mail reliably for a while due to system problems....so anyone waiting for email (Sellam in particular) you'll be receiving something during the next 24 hours or so. Anyway, I'm after a couple of items which I was hoping someone in the UK could help me with. First of all I've gotten the Apple bug again and want to get my Apple /// going. It seems to work, but without a set of boot discs it's just so much scrap....so can anyone point me at a source of said discs please? Also, I have an HP-150 which I'm after a hard drive for. I did have a couple of offers from the US last year, but due to system problems I lost touch with the person concerned....that said shipping would've made the cost prohibitive. So, does anyone in the UK have a unit that's up for grabs? Thanks. TTFN - Pete. -- Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer. Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC) peter.pachla(a)wintermute.org.uk | peter.pachla(a)virgin.net | peter.pachla(a)vectrex.freeserve.co.uk | peter.pachla(a)wintermute.free-online.co.uk | www.wintermute.free-online.co.uk --

26 years, 4 months

8
10
0 0

Famous Private-Eye Shows You, Make 10K A Month

by DD950＠prodigy.net

-----Original Message----- From: Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com> >On Oct 2, 21:40, cmw0(a)0ngpa8.net wrote: >> Subject: Famous Private-Eye Shows You, Make 10K A Month > >A look at the headers and a few moments with nslookup Hi Peter: Thanks for taking a good whack at the spam. I have been trying do some spam whacking myself and have lately been using the free service part of http://spamcop.net . I used spamcop on that same spam message and the spamcop results are found here: http://spamcop.net/sc?id=1116253&crc=178709 I would be interested on your thoughts of this SpamCop.net? Is it worth my effort to parse and report the spam with it? How did it do on this example of spam? Just wondering if you have the time to comment. Thanks for you time, Jim Rossbach, Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club Web Ring, www.TonkinYachts.cjb.net Only when no one responds to spam will it go away.

26 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

Heathkit H-11 restoration questions

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 4, 8:50, allisonp(a)world.std.com wrote: > Subject: Re: Heathkit H-11 restoration questions > > with a much more interesting banner. It claims to be Rev 0.9 of a ROM set > > for the 11/23plus, and after verbosely testing memory, tries to boot DU3. > > The M8189 was available as two basic versions 11/23 and the plus. The > primary difference was what it could boot. I don't think Alison means 11/23 and 11/23plus; the 11/23 uses a dual-height M8186 (KDF11-A) board. But the M8189 was used in both 11/23plus (BA11-N box, IIRC) and microPDP11/23 (BA23 box). The difference was just the boot ROMs, as she said. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Heathkit H-11 restoration questions

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

While most of Y'all were at the VCF, I decided to spend my time in similar activities and dusted off two projects I've been tripping over for weeks: my two ASR-33's (more on them in another posting) and a Heathkit H-11 that I rescued from a former employer a few years ago. The H-11 was pretty goobered up from the previous owner. He soldered wires right on the DLV11-J connectors, for example. He also cobbled up his own CD slots for an RLV11 by extending the case out another 4 inches and wrapping two pairs of Heathkit Q-bus sockets together. It was gross. I have the case back together (except for the top, which he lost) and have been working on the cards. I discovered in my piles of CPUs that I have two M8189 "PDP-11/23plus" boards with different ROM revisions. One has the numbers "SG8335 339E2" and "SG8335 340E2" on them and behaves like the description in the handbook. The other board is populated with "LM8451 183E4" and "LM8451 184E4" and comes up with a much more interesting banner. It claims to be Rev 0.9 of a ROM set for the 11/23plus, and after verbosely testing memory, tries to boot DU3. You have the option of retesting memory, dumping a memory and I/O map or of booting from several devices including tape, network and several flavors of disk. This brings me to my next problem... The Heathkit floppy controller is labelled "H27" on the white handle with a silk-screened part number of 85-2183-1. If I put it next in the grant chain, the 11/23plus hangs. If I put it at the end of the bus, the 11/23plus tests and lets me try to boot from it. I have the cover off the floppy case and I can see the heads load and boot. They drop to track 0, move around, read in a few tracks, then unload and the CPU never prints out another thing. I suspect that something to do with DMA or interrupts is hanging the CPU once RT-11 loads into memory. I did pull all the chips (100% socketed) and test them one at a time. Some failed on the first go, but passed after wiggling, telling me that there is some oxidation on the leads. I pulled and reseated everything and will try this thing again when I get back out to where the H-11 is. In the meantime, I am wondering if the H-11 floppy box is pin compatible with an RXV11. I happen to have one here, but I don't want to fry something if they are not compatible. BTW, there are three jumpers on the H27 - E1, E2 and E3. The card passed into my hands with E1 and E2 strapped, but not E3. Finally, eventually, I want to get original stuff back into this box. I have the DLV11 console board that came with this, I'm just not using it. In addition to the H27 floppy card, I have a Heathkit lineprinter card (unassembled) and a wad of Q-bus CPUs from the LSI-11 up to the 11/23plus (nothing newer, unfortunately). So the question is, what "belongs" in this box. Did it come with an 11/03 "LSI-11" CPU? An 11/23 F-11 board? What did the H-11 use for boot roms? A BDV-11? An MXV-11? A Heathkit board? Thanks, -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 4 months

3
2
0 0

Heathkit H-11 restoration questions

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>The card itself is about as simple as any Qbus card. It is, I take it, >supposed to be nominally RXV11 compatible from a driver standpoint, yes? >If not, then that's part of my problem. I do boot, the disks to appear to >read in an OS, then the system hangs, but that could be as a result of my >card only working if it is *not* at the end of an unbroken grant chain (with >a gap in the bus, the disks read but the system does not boot; without a gap >in the bus, the CPU does not even bring up the boot message). The RXV11 doesn't do DMA, and while booting it may not need interrupts. But after the OS is bootstrapped and is "going" it'll probably start looking for interrupts. The fact that the machine hangs solid when the card is where it's supposed to be may be a clue that the it's permanently stuck interrupting. Does the Heath machine at least have a "halt" button so you can get down to console ODT ("@" prompt) and do further debugging from there? -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

8-inch floppy availability

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

Ethan Dicks wrote: >I did spot the obvious format switch on the front of the disk unit, but no >idea how to use it. I now wish that I'd picked up a couple more boxes of >media from a friend's business about eight years ago. He had a pallet of 8" >disks that he was selling for more money that I was willing to pay. >Eventually, >he gave me a case - my choice. I grabbed a 24" long box full of pre-formatted >disks, the only one on the pile. When he disposed of the remainder, I didn't >make a trip out there to grab any boxes. :-( What part of the world are you in, Ethan? Here in North America, new 8" floppies (preformatted, even) are readily available from a number of sources. Are you looking for small qty (less than 1000) or bulk (qty greater than 1000)? -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Floppy disks again

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Now if we take one media, standard 300o 5.25 twosided 96/100tpi certifed >we are now talking about litterally hundreds of formats most of which are >incompatable not by any reason of media. That's why I stick to IBM 3740 (8", 77 track, 26 sectors/track, 128 bytes/sec) format - guaranteed cross-platform compatibility! I can still read my floppies from 1973 just fine... All "real" machines have 8" floppies and at least one 9-track drive here! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

Floppy disks again

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 3, 16:56, Ward Griffiths wrote: > Subject: Re: Floppy disks again > Bill Yakowenko wrote: > > > > Hey, with the discussion of diskettes recently, and my own > > search for info on RX50's, I was a little surprised by the > > lack of available info on single-sided single-density 5.25" > > floppy disks (emphasis on SD). Were they ever actually > > manufactured, or was SS/SD strictly an 8" thing? I seem to > > remember seeing SS/SD 5.25" way back when. Can anybody > > give me an authoritative rating of their coercivity? Were > > they 300 Oerstedts, just like DD? If so, what is it that > > made them single density? Something about the size of the > > individual magnetic domains maybe? Or were exactly the same > > diskettes called "double density" when we figured out how > > to make drives to handle that? > > Farzino, the Oersted value of SSSD (90k), DSSD (180k), SSDD (180k) > and DSDD (360k) 5.25" diskettes was the same. Those figures for capacity only apply to 40-track disks formatted with 9 sectors per track (IBM PC style). There are lots of other formats for 40-track disks, and of course there are also 35-track and 80-track drives. > For that matter, it > was the same with QD (720k) diskettes. QD is a misnomer, it really means DSDD 80-track, and the figure of 720K relates to 9 sectors per track, 512 bytes per sector. Ignoring unusual techniques, such as GCR recording, as used by Apple and Commodore, there are two possibilities for density in conventional floppy disk systems. Single Density uses FM recording, and Double Density uses MFM. They use the same number of magnetic reversals per track, but differ in the way they include clock pulses, so MFM ends up with twice as many data bits per track. Then there are two possibilities fro number of heads, 1 or 2. Finally, the number and size of sectors can be varied. IBM happened to use 9 sectors per track (8 on early systems, hence the existence of 320K disks as well as 360K) with 512 bytes per sector, MFM. Other manufacturers did not always use the same layout. Hence Acorn disks were usually 100K, 200K, 400K, or 800K (800K being 1024 bytes per sector, 5 s.p.t, MFM, double-sided). RX50 is MFM single-sided 80-track, 512 bytes per sector, 10 sectors per track, giving 400K per disk. > Manufacturers "tested" and > rated the media for different densities, and I know that some disks > that worked fine as SSSD failed miserable in the Tandy 2000 (720k) > while others worked just peachy. I don't know of any failures > involving using a higher-rated floppy in a lower drive except when > the media had been previously used in a 720k drive. That's not a density issue, merely a question of the width of the track written by an 80-track drive as opposed to a 40-track drive. > When you get > to the official HD, 1.2Mb media, the situation changes. That's right, the coercivity is different. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

AT&T PC 6300 Plus Unix box

by JRichardson＠softwright.co.uk

>> When is 'for the time'? Torch (in the UK) released the XXX not that much >> later (1984?). That was a _strange_ machine -- it ran unix (well, >> uniplus+), and had a machintosh-like frontend. Hmm, are Torch still in business? They used to be my local parts supplier of of PC (Intel ;-) bits until a few years ago, and I distinctly remember a pile of XXX systems that used to sit in the corner of their workshop area - they may still be there for the taking if Torch themselves are still around... cheers Jules

26 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Floppy disks again

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Hey, with the discussion of diskettes recently, and my own search for info on RX50's, I was a little surprised by the lack of available info on single-sided single-density 5.25" floppy disks (emphasis on SD). Were they ever actually manufactured, or was SS/SD strictly an 8" thing? I seem to remember seeing SS/SD 5.25" way back when. Can anybody give me an authoritative rating of their coercivity? Were they 300 Oerstedts, just like DD? If so, what is it that made them single density? Something about the size of the individual magnetic domains maybe? Or were exactly the same diskettes called "double density" when we figured out how to make drives to handle that? Also, my web search lead me to conclude that a 360K DS/DD floppy should probably work okay as an RX50; the only difference seems to be the number of tracks per inch. But they write many times more bits per inch along a track (maybe over 3000bpi?) than they do tracks per inch (48 vs. 96), so the media itself must have high enough resolution. Are the magnetic domains long and narrow and aligned radially? Or is there some other reason that it gets less resolution radially (tracks per inch) than longitudinally (bits per inch along a track)? If the precision of the drive is the only limiting factor, then DS/DD should work perfectly fine as RX50s. Clues are welcome. Cheers, Bill.

26 years, 4 months

3
2
0 0

AT&T PC 6300 Plus Unix box

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Thanks Russ, that website looks like it might be useful! What makes you think it is a 6286EL? I know next to nothing about these AT&T boxes, so I never would have guessed anything besides what it says on the label. Is it just because it's a 286 box? It quite definitely says "6300 PLUS" on the machine itself and on all of the floppies that I got with it. Cheers, Bill. On Thu, 30 Sep 1999, Russ Blakeman <rhblake(a)bigfoot.com> wrote: ] The AT&T setup files (in case anyone needs them) are located for download at ] http://www3.ncr.com/support/pc/pcdesc/library/63xx.shtml ] ] Me thinks he might have a 6286EL ] ] ...

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

AT&T PC 6300 Plus Unix box

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

I haven't been able to alter its power-up diagnostic sequence. Tried holding down different function keys, escape, control-this, control-that, blah blah blah... while booting. If there is a BIOS setup program built in, I'd love to know how to wake it up. It didn't even glance at the floppy drive during all of this, so putting any particular disk into the drive seems unlikely to make any difference. Looks like maybe I'll have to warm up the soldering iron. Heck, for that many chips, maybe the propane torch is more appropriate. Bill. On Thu, 30 Sep 1999, Glenatacme(a)aol.com wrote: ] In a message dated 09/29/1999 5:16:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ] yakowenk(a)cs.unc.edu writes: ] > Yesterday I scooped an AT&T PC 6300 Unix machine on its way ] ] Does this box have a BIOS setup program onboard or must you use a ] configuration disk? (if so do you have the disk?) ] ] I'd try turning off the parity check on the unlikely chance that the parity ] check itself is loopy . . . other than that, you've got a _lot_ of soldering ] to do ;>) ] ] BTW ISTR that one of our "customers" abandoned a 6300 in lieu of having it ] repaired. Contact me off-list if you're interested & I'll dig it out of the ] back room and check it out again. ] ] Regards, ] ] Glen Goodwin ] 0/0

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

Wanted: MicroBee computer

by rwaltman＠bellatlantic.net

I would like to buy a MicroBee machine, preferably one running CP/M, but one of the earlier/smaller BASIC ROM based models would be considered also. Roberto Waltman rwaltman(a)bellatlantic.net

26 years, 5 months

2
1
0 0

AT&T PC 6300 Plus Unix box

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Thanks Bill, I don't remember seeing DIP switches, but then I wasn't looking for them either. I'll try digging info out of the NCR website that Russ pointed out, and hope it tells me which switch is which. Gosh, the machine on which the Korn shell was developed! Almost historic, aint it? Hope I can get it to go. Wonder if ksh is actually installed on it? :-) Cheers, Bill. On Thu, 30 Sep 1999, Bill Pechter <pechter(a)pechter.dyndns.org> wrote: ] > The AT&T setup files (in case anyone needs them) are located for download at ] > http://www3.ncr.com/support/pc/pcdesc/library/63xx.shtml ] > ] > Me thinks he might have a 6286EL ] ] Sounds like a 6300+ to me... there was NO setup disk. Just dip switches ] like on the 6300's and XT's. There are no IBM AT compatible slots. ] Just Olivetti designed 16 bitters (this thing was designed before the ] AT Standard.) ] ] ... and then, a few minutes later: ] > Does this box have a BIOS setup program onboard or must you use a ] > configuration disk? (if so do you have the disk?) ] ] Nope. No NVRAM either. Just a bunch of dip switches like an XT. ] Check the NCR web site for info. ] ] I had a 6300 and always wanted a 6300+. BTW, the story I heard is ] David Korn wrote the Korn Shell on a 6300+ for System V. ] ] It was used at AT&T as a single user development box for a while ] until the workstations began to appear as AT&T's Bell Labs moved from ] Vaxes and 3b's with BLIT's and 630 terminals to 7300's and later ] to Sun Workstations. ] ] ... ] ] Bill ] --- ] bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org ] Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC, ] The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check.

26 years, 5 months

2
1
0 0

NCR Tower 32/500- lost root password

by rws＠enteract.com

I've got a NCR Tower 32/500 (3466-500) running Unix that has a mixed-up root password- see, I got it in working condition, with no password on root. Like a dolt, I changed the password before setting up an account for myself. It happily took the password, and I did an orderly shutdown. Later, I re-started and went to log in, and it kept coming up with 'login incorrect'. I did a disorderly shutdown (no way to log in to do it right) and now it comes up in single-user mode saying it needs to be fsck'ed (no problem), but it still wants a password. I've tried every convolution of the password I used (it was a simple word, a numeral, and the # sign) with no luck. I do not know any other accounts/passwords, nor do I have a system install tape. Is there any way to get in without a password and edit the /etc/.passwd file? Richard

26 years, 5 months

3
2
0 0

Classical Computing software?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 10/1/99 3:59:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mikeford(a)socal.rr.com writes: > >My bulletin board system has over 4 gigs of classic computer games. They are > >all games that haven't been sold since 1993. I also have the really old DOS > >versions. I know it is illegal to have pirated games and software, but this > >is stuff that you just can't find or buy ANYWHERE and there is no > commercial > >demand for such programs. > > Which means it would be a real shame to lose it all, so PLEASE matey, be > discrete with access. For an object lesson in what a mess it can be take a > look at Jagshouse (former old mac site, still alive, but minus software > barely). > thankfully, i was able to grab all the goodies from jags house before it was changed. now, i just need a zip drive power supply... DB Young Team OS/2 --> this message printed on recycled disk space view the computers of yesteryear at http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm

26 years, 5 months

3
2
0 0

DEC GT40 original list price?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Oh, and "MOON LANDER PROGRAM" was *explicity* written on the requisition... > 8-) I have a 8.5 x 11" 50-page glossy brochure from DEC on their PDP-11 line, circa 1977 or so, and on the same page as the GT40 is a stylized lunar lander :-). -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

DEC GT40 original list price?

by cube＠msn.fullfeed.com

Oh, and "MOON LANDER PROGRAM" was *explicity* written on the requisition... 8-) At 10:18 AM 10/3/99 -0500, classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu wrote: >The information I have indicates that the University of Wisconsin paid $10,200 for one in 1975. But that was a bid, and the quote returned indicated that it was a GT40-AA "Demonstrator Model". So, it was probably not new, and was presumably discounted. I actually obtained that machine later on, and restored it. > >By the way, I am curious where you got your lander program... I ask because a few years back, I contacted Jack (via a pointer from the Computer Museum in Boston), and what he had was a 9 -Track tape that he had gotten >from someone who had preserved a copy while he was at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. He sent me the tape, and I read it and returned the contents to him, including the lander program, some demo programs, etc. > >Jay Jaeger > >At 09:07 AM 10/3/99 +0000, you wrote: >>Does anyone happen to recall the original price of the DEC GT40 >>graphics terminal? I'm exhibiting one at the VCF, running the >>famouus Lunar Lander game by Jack Burness, and several people have >>asked me what the terminal originally sold for. >> >>Thanks! >>Eric >> >>http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/dec/gt40/ >> > --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection Jay.Jaeger(a)msn.fullfeed.com visit http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/~cube

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

DEC GT40 original list price?

by eric＠brouhaha.com

Does anyone happen to recall the original price of the DEC GT40 graphics terminal? I'm exhibiting one at the VCF, running the famouus Lunar Lander game by Jack Burness, and several people have asked me what the terminal originally sold for. Thanks! Eric http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/dec/gt40/

26 years, 5 months

2
1
0 0

IBM 3270 PC

by mallison＠konnections.com

I sometimes see the monitors. They're VERY obvious. They are large with an oversize square-ish case and a built in swivel stand. I'm not looking at the monitor right now, so I forget what the plate says on it. But it also has a big red toggle switch. You can see them from miles away. Again, I believe there are other adapter plugs on the board, so other monitors would work... I've been running CPM-86 as well as other weird stuff on it. It's real IBM so that early software runs well and correctly on the 3270... -mike -----Original Message----- From: David Williams <dlw(a)trailingedge.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 8:21 AM Subject: Re: IBM 3270 PC So what people are telling me is this is basically just an XT to me unless I have something that uses 3270 terminals to hook it up to. Then I can use it as a terminal. That is if I can get the special keyboard and monitor. Is that right? Well I did just give a bunch of furniture in my storeroom to my brother which freed up some space. I guess I could hold on to it for a while just in case something turned up. Hmmmm. On 23 Sep 99, at 22:05, Jay Jaeger wrote: > The part quoted below about the display was incorrect. A true 3270 PC > used a special display adapter as well as a special keyboard adapter and > some special expansion memory (cabled to the keyboard adapter, if I recall > correctly). However, you can pull all of that out, and you will have a > more or less standard XT. You can leave the coax card in, if it suits > your fancy, and you have a 327x controller around somewhere... 8-) ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

26 years, 5 months

3
4
0 0

IBM 3270 PC

by mallison＠konnections.com

I use my 3270 as a standard PC. The display adapter and monitor work fine with all software, even comes up in color with UCSD Pascal. No need to pull the works. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: Jay Jaeger <cube(a)msn.fullfeed.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 9:06 PM Subject: Re: IBM 3270 PC >The part quoted below about the display was incorrect. A true 3270 PC used >a special display adapter as well as >a special keyboard adapter and some special expansion memory (cabled to the >keyboard adapter, if I recall >correctly). However, you can pull all of that out, and you will have a >more or less standard XT. You can leave the >coax card in, if it suits your fancy, and you have a 327x controller around >somewhere... 8-) > > >Jay > > >At 04:45 AM 9/23/99 -0500, you wrote: >>.The monitor should be a >>regular green or amer mono unless a different video board was used as an >>aftermarket item. > > > >>David Williams wrote: >> >>> Got an urge to go to a thrift I haven't been to in a while and found >>> what was labeled as a 3270 PC. Brought it home and opened it >>> up. Looking at the boards inside I'd guess it was a 3270 PC as the >>> label said. No keyboard or monitor. I'm guessing it used different >>> ones than the normal PC. It has a hard disk, but have to pull it to >>> see what type first and 2 half height 5.25" floppies. Not sure what >>> software is on the drive. Anyone tell me anything else about this? >>> Such as where to locate a keyboard and monitor, what each of the >>> boards might be, etc. I can go into some detail on the cards if >>> need be. Half appear to be normal drive controllers and serial port, >>> etc. Then there is one with a BNC connector and two others that >>> have a small jumper board between them. Should I even keep it? >>> Hmmmm.... >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> ----- >>> David Williams - Computer Packrat >>> dlw(a)trailingedge.com >>> http://www.trailingedge.com >> >--- >Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection >Jay.Jaeger(a)msn.fullfeed.com visit http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/~cube >

26 years, 5 months

3
3
0 0

IBM System 23 and (2) IBM System 36s for grabs(2) IBM System 36

by Historical＠aol.com

Please contact the person directly with the equipment. Thier message follows: <<My company has some old computer equipment, that I have been instructed to dispose of. Could you put me in contact with someone who might want these old computers? Here is an example of what we are disposing of. IBM System 23 (2) IBM System 36 IBM AT with PC to Sys 36 card (with 62 pin cable) ADP MAX 8500 ADP Micro 2000 Triad TI 300 TI 1000 TI 1500 Motorola Sys3304NY151 Modems (3)NEC N4810II Racal-Vadic Auto Dialer VA212 Codex 2260 Dumb Terminals (5) TI 928 Thanks for your help. You can contact me by phone at (972) 234-4444 ext. 150 Or you can email me at dalbright(a)hbssystems.com>>

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

Famous Private-Eye Shows You, Make 10K A Month

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

Hi, Jim. On Oct 2, 16:26, Jim wrote: > Thanks for taking a good whack at the spam. I have been trying do some spam > whacking myself and have lately been using the free service part of > http://spamcop.net . > > I used spamcop on that same spam message and the spamcop results are found > here: > > http://spamcop.net/sc?id=1116253&crc=178709 It did almost exactly what I did, and arrived at the same conclusion, ie that the mail came from a UUNet dialup and should be reported to abuse-mail(a)uu.net, which is what I did. I got the acknowledgement of my complaint a few minutes later. BTW, it's often the case that ISPs like UUNet respond more strongly if several people complain about the same spammer, so there's nothing to stop anyone else making a similar complaint. You do need to include *all* the headers, though, and preferably the body of the text, too. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

New addition to the collection....PDP-11

by jlwest＠tseinc.com

Just added to my collection from a VERY kind soul who I now owe a favor to... A PDP-11/44. It would appear that inside the cpu chassis is a CIM? card, about 5 cards that make up the cpu, and a memory card. There also looks to be two other cards, one I'm guessing just joins the backplane sections together, and the last looks like a bus terminator of some type. Do I have enough to test and start playing with? I've never seen a Unibus machine, but I'm guessing the CIM is for hooking up a console and getting some type of boot processor program visible? Thanks for any pointers! Jay West

26 years, 5 months

3
2
0 0

Famous Private-Eye Shows You, Make 10K A Month

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 2, 21:40, cmw0(a)0ngpa8.net wrote: > Subject: Famous Private-Eye Shows You, Make 10K A Month A look at the headers and a few moments with nslookup show that this came >from a dial-up line owned by UUNet, though it was relayed through mciworld.com. I've mailed UUNet to complain, since that was definitely against their conditions of use policy... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

Kaypro 2k

by g＠kurico.com

Anyone with a Kaypro 2000 portable out there? If so can you let me know what the specs are for the ac adapter. TIA George

26 years, 5 months

2
1
0 0

Famous Private-Eye Shows You, Make 10K A Month

by cmw0＠0ngpa8.net

Oprah, Nightline, Maria Shriver, 48 Hours, 20/20, Playboy, Kiplingers and more have all interviewed this famous Private Investigator. Now, you too can make substantial income using Schweitzers highly sought- after SECRETS. Thank you for your interest in our training Course! Judgment Acquisition & Recovery, Inc. offers an extensive training course in "How to Collect Judicial Judgments". If you are like many people, you are not even sure what a Judicial Judgment is and why processing Judicial Judgments can earn you very substantial income. When one person or business files suit against another person or business and wins, then winner than has a Judicial Judgment. You are happy you won, but you will soon find out the shocking fact: "Its now up to you to Collect on the Judgment". The court does not require the loser to pay you. The court will not even help you. In fact, employees of the court are forbidden by law from telling you how to collect the judgment. Basically, the winner has a piece of paper. You must trace the loser down, find their assets; their employment, bank accounts, real estate, stocks and bonds, etc. Schweitzer teaches how to do it all. Very few people know how to find these assets or what to do when they are found. The result is that millions of Judgments are just sitting in files and being forgotten. This is entirely non-confrontational and requires no special licensing. Right now in the United States there is between 200 and 300 billion dollars of uncollected Judicial Judgments. For every Judgment that is paid, 5 or more Judgments take its place. The income potential is substantial in this profession. Using the techniques taught in this course, people are now working full-time making $96,000.00 to over $200,000.00 per year, Part-time associates are earning between $24,000.00 and $100,000.00 per year. Most choose to work out of their homes, other build sizable organizations. Today, people trained in this business opportunity are processing over 500 million dollars in Judicial Judgments. So, if you've ever dreamed of the financial freedom that owning your own business can provide. Dreamed of an early retirement, this may be the opportunity for you. None of your days will be dull. You will be mentally challenged. This business protects you from corporate downsizing. This business is your ticket to freedom from others telling you what to do. This business lets you control your destiny! Our training has made this happen for many others already, Make it happen for you! If the above sounds interesting to you then its time for you to talk to a real live human being, no cost or obligation on your part. Please call us at 1-888-309-5852 (Toll Free) and speak with Al Schweitzer directly (between the hours of 9:00am - 5:00pm, Mountain Time) Thank you for your time and interest.

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

IC replacement help!

by west＠tseinc.com

Trying to find out exactly what the following IC is... The chip has the motorola M logo on it with part number 1820-0140 Some HP manuals I have say 1820-0140 is manufactured by Motorola, and the motorola part number is SC7513PK But, that's all the info I can find. Anyone have any ideas? TIA! Jay West

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

EPSON L2

by quitho＠t-online.de

Hi all, I just came across an EPSON L2 - an 286-based laptop with 20 MB hdd and a monochrome LCD, made by EPSON TELFORD Ltd. U.K.. The unit is in good shape and working fine, but as I have no documentation, setup disks etc. at all, I can't view or change any settings. Can someone help me with this? Thanks in advance, Thomas

26 years, 5 months

2
1
0 0

Opening the Sun Lunchbox (411 Style Case)

by rkaplan＠accsys-corp.com

Hi - I wonder if someone could help me - I have two questions. I recently acquired a SPARCStation IPC. I have it up and running. The IPC's peripherals come in these lunch box style cases, "411"'s. 1. Can someone tell me how to open these cases? 2. If I have a Seagate SCSI Drive, would that be compatible with the IPC? Thanks in advance for any help. Randy

26 years, 5 months

4
4
0 0

pdp-8 Core Memory Board on eBay!

by mcquiggi＠sfu.ca

Hi Gang: There's an Omnibus core memory board for sale on eBay. See: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=173721903 for details. The seller doesn't know what he has, other than it's a "vintage computer core memory board". The current price is $29.99. Kevin ========================================================== Sgt. Kevin McQuiggin, Vancouver Police Department E-Comm Project (604) 215-5095; Cell: (604) 868-0544 Email: mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca

26 years, 5 months

3
2
0 0

tu58 picture?

by west＠tseinc.com

Just out of curiousity, anyone know a URL to any pictures of a TU58? Thanks! Jay West

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

[PDP8-Lovers] pdp-8 Core Memory Board on eBay!

by doran＠megsinet.net

Kevin, It has been some time since I toyed with my pdp8 computers. Literally many years. I read the note about the memory on ebay being an omnibus memory. Did they use 16 bit core on a 12 bit machine ? At first glance I would think it was a pdp11 module. DEC may have used 16 bit cores on pdp 8 boxes, I'm almost curious enough to blow the dust off the old chassis and look. Ed Doran -----Original Message----- From: Kevin McQuiggin <mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca> To: pdp8-lovers(a)onelist.com <pdp8-lovers(a)onelist.com>; classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, October 01, 1999 6:40 PM Subject: [PDP8-Lovers] pdp-8 Core Memory Board on eBay! >From: Kevin McQuiggin <mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca> > >Hi Gang: > >There's an Omnibus core memory board for sale on eBay. See: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=173721903 > >for details. The seller doesn't know what he has, other than it's a >"vintage computer core memory board". The current price is $29.99. > >Kevin > > >========================================================== >Sgt. Kevin McQuiggin, Vancouver Police Department >E-Comm Project (604) 215-5095; Cell: (604) 868-0544 >Email: mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >??? Computer Questions ==> Free Answers From Live Experts ! ! ! > go to EXPERTCITY.COM > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/expertcity5 ">Click Here</a> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

RCA 1861, NTSC and a DEC VR-201

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 1, 19:06, Tony Duell wrote: > > There are other transistors besides 2N3904s and 2N3906s? You mean > > BC109/184s, right? :-) > > Yes. And 2N3055 (high current, low-ish voltage), BU508 (HV switch), BF259 > (video amplifier). That's about it for bipolars :-)... You missed AC128 and OC71 :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 5 months

2
1
0 0

pdp-8 Core Memory Board on eBay!

by west＠tseinc.com

If it's for an 8E, I'd be very interested in it! Isn't there a difference between the core boards for 8E, 8I, 8L, etc.? Hopefully it's for an 8E, working, and no one else bids on it <grin>! Jay West -----Original Message----- From: Kevin McQuiggin <mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Friday, October 01, 1999 6:36 PM Subject: pdp-8 Core Memory Board on eBay! >Hi Gang: > >There's an Omnibus core memory board for sale on eBay. See: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=173721903 > >for details. The seller doesn't know what he has, other than it's a >"vintage computer core memory board". The current price is $29.99. > >Kevin > > >========================================================== >Sgt. Kevin McQuiggin, Vancouver Police Department >E-Comm Project (604) 215-5095; Cell: (604) 868-0544 >Email: mcquiggi(a)sfu.ca > >

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

Media interchange sillinesss (Was: floppy controller IC (wasRe:

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

In a message dated 9/30/99 8:36:50 PM EST, cisin(a)xenosoft.com writes: << Nevertheless, YMMV! >> YMMV? << Although I've had a moderate amount of experience of it NEVER working reliably, some folk seem to have a knack for using the wrong coercivity media and having it work just fine. Hmmm. >> Perhaps it's my own personal magnetism ;>) Glen Goodwin 0/0

26 years, 5 months

2
1
0 0

RCA 1861, NTSC and a DEC VR-201

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 1, 1:28, Tony Duell wrote: > Indeed (although occassionally you get a board where almost every > resistor is one of the strange E96 values for not really good reason). And surprisingly often in an RC circuit where the capacitor is +/-20% tolerance :-( > I am also convinced that a lot of transistors are chosen because that's > what the designer happened to have in stock :-). Yes there are critical > ones, but I could tell you some good stories about substituting all sorts > of transistors with 2N3904s and 2N3906s and still having the device work > _perfectly_. There are other transistors besides 2N3904s and 2N3906s? You mean BC109/184s, right? :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 5 months

3
3
0 0

PDP-11/44 (configuration and identification)

by west＠tseinc.com

Closer examination of my newly acquired 11/44 shows the following cards (right to left, as when standing at the front panel looking back towards the power supply).... CIM/M7090 open slot open slot DATAPATH/M7094 CONTROL/M7095 MFM/M7096 CACHE/M7097 UBI/M7098 open slot Standard Memories MM-144 open slot open slot open slot M9202 side 1 M9202 side 2 way down towards the front is a G727A Grant Continuity (about 2"x2") open slot open slot open slot open slot open slot open slot M9302 Most of these cards intuitively make sense as to their function. But what is MFM and UBI? The standard memories MM-144 looks like half the sockets are populated - I'm thinking 512K? Is this a runnable system or do I have to add cards or move cards to get a boot console alive? The system id tag says 11/44-XX upgraded to 11/44-CA. What's the CA designation? There were 3 cables screwed to a metal bar just thrown inside the cpu chassis: One was a Berg14 to Berg24, BC44D-09. Wheres this go from/to? One was Berg24-DB25F, BC44A-10. I'm guessing system console :) One was 20 pin DIP ribbon to berg20, and the berg 20 plugged into a little adapter that presented DB25. Any ideas? Lastly, the front panel switch. Appears 3 position, set left, set center, and momentary right returning to center. Is this correct operation or is the switch messed up? Anyone have a spare TU58? <Grin>! Just curious about most of this, don't really have time yet to work on it (still slaving over HP2100's and 7900A and 7906)! Jay West

26 years, 5 months

2
1
0 0

color video terminals for twinaxial

by rhblake＠bigfoot.com

Anyone know of a really good reseller of used/operational color VDT's that work on twinax line? We're getting a lot of them dying at work (IO's and Decision Data brand) and they aren't worth the $150 an hour they want to repair them. Any info is appreciated. I'm in the central US so the closer the better.

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

No subject

by sescom＠sescom.com

I would like to buy a manual for a TEK 5l4N. Please respond to Franklin J Miller, SESCOM inc. 702-565-3400 or email sescom(a)sescom.com

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

New addition to the collection....PDP-11

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>A PDP-11/44. It would appear that inside the cpu chassis is a CIM? card, >about 5 cards that make up the cpu, and a memory card. There also looks to >be two other cards, one I'm guessing just joins the backplane sections >together, and the last looks like a bus terminator of some type. Do I have >enough to test and start playing with? I've never seen a Unibus machine, but >I'm guessing the CIM is for hooking up a console and getting some type of >boot processor program visible? Indeed, you do plug the console terminal into the connector labeled "Console terminal" on the CIM :-). The other 5 cards you should have are the M7094, M7095, M7096, M7097, and M7098. If you turn on the 11/44 without backplane continuity, you'll likely get a "CP didn't start". With all those empty slots, you don't have backplane continuity! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

HELP! DHV-11 switch settings...

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I need to set a DHV-11 to CSR 160440 and I don't have the docs, is the dip >switch dedicated to the CSR or are some of the bits not included? I need >this for the VCF tomorrow! There are two 8-switch packs: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 O O O O C O O C O O O C C O O O \---/ \---/ \------/ \---/ \---/ 6 0 4 4 3 0 \------------------------/ \---------/ | \ Sets the CSR to 160440 Sets the Vector (low digit is always 0, high to 300 (low digit always 0) digits are 16 or 17) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

HELP! DHV-11 switch settings...

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

I need to set a DHV-11 to CSR 160440 and I don't have the docs, is the dip switch dedicated to the CSR or are some of the bits not included? I need this for the VCF tomorrow! --Chuck

26 years, 5 months

2
1
0 0

Media interchange sillinesss (Was: floppy controller IC (was Re:

by edick＠idcomm.com

Well. . . it wouldn't have made much sense for the folks who made media to admit that they were merely charging more for the media marked "double-sided" when they were alike in every other way. It seemed that the only real difference in many cases was that some diskettes simply were priced higher. The old 8" drives required you punch holes in the appropriate places and cover the old ones if you used "single-sided" media in a 2-sided drive, having punched the hole, which was the only difference. Since they were available, this swapping of media from one application to another happened all the time where I did much of my work back in the mid-80's, and I'm not referring to merely a few dozen of each drive type, as we were testing and qualifying drives by the thousands. That was pretty boring work and, seeing lots of different media, it became obvious when there really wasn't a difference other than the label. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis <cmcmanis(a)mcmanis.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, September 30, 1999 11:55 AM Subject: Re: Media interchange sillinesss (Was: floppy controller IC (was Re: >Fascinating stuff, the old "HD/DD/SD" debate rages even today. Fortunately >half of the conversation gets filtered on this end. > >Fred's absolutely correct. > >I can add only one Factoid that was true in 1986 which was that Sony and >Verbatim had both admitted that they were only made double sided diskette >media and the single sided disks were in fact double sided capable. But >_nobody_ ever claimed they used a single emulsion for both HD and DD disks. >For formats where the emulsion was the same for SD vs DD disks they did use >the same media. > >--Chuck

26 years, 5 months

3
2
0 0

Freguson Big Board and Big Board II

by edick＠idcomm.com

Have any of you guys got definitive and detailed information about these early 1980's single-board computers? I've got a pile of them with very little doc and none on the BB-II. I'd like to determine whether any or all of these babies work before I offer to give away stuff that's totally useless because it's broken. Several of these have been hacked extensively and I'd like to restore them to their minimal but functional configuration. Further, the BB-II has a SASI interface which would, if it worked, help me to sift through a pile of SASI bridge controllers. All in all, that would be a REALLY big help. I also have come onto rumors that there are published hacks to the BB-I which bring it up to speeds comparable with the -II version. Any help with that would be appreciated as well. thanx in advance, Dick

26 years, 5 months

2
1
0 0

IBM S/36 boot error 0010

by msg＠waste.org

Greetings! Please forgive the operational questions (we still are manual-less) but if we can get the box to boot the quest for support materials for our IBM 5363 III will be clearer. We've solved the case-entry problem and a PC running 5250 emul. is now recognised as the console. Rewiring the keyswitch allowed selection of Maint. mode. At IPL the console displays a countdown banner from 4 to 1 accompanied by cursor shifts and beeps; the SSP load commences and stops with a frontpanel display of '0010' and cursor shifts and beeps on the console. The 'program' led is lit. Selecting func. 5, sys reset, and then func. 9 'start ssp' invokes a dump utility on the console. We've tried DD and HD diskettes formatted in a variety of ways for the dump but all are rejected. This sequence is repeated at each IPL. Can someone describe both the meaning of the '0010' error and what a normal IPL should look like? What support diskettes were provided (microcode, maintenance, etc.)? What is the low level and high level format of compatible diskettes (are some formats PC-floppy readable to create disk images)? What is the likelihood of obtaining (at least hardware and operation) manuals from IBM in paper or microform and would contacting Rochester (MN) be the most effective approach? Thanks to the list members for all help. Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Museum

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

ENIAC book

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

I got a copy some time ago, and also can recommend it thoroughly. John G. Zabolitzky

26 years, 5 months

2
1
0 0

RCA 1861, NTSC and a DEC VR-201 (Mea Culpa!)

by mtapley＠swri.edu

I blathered: >> 1 Black 1e0 First 2 digits give mantissa, >> 2 Brown 1e1 3rd digit gives exponent, ... Philip Belben corrected: >Ouch! No, black is zero, brown is one, up to white which is nine. *Thank You, Philip*! I guess it just proves that it takes more than a copy of Horowitz & Hill (who got it right) - one must also be *literate* to play an EE... The table I typed in was rotated by one digit. Ouch is right. Sorry about that! And right on the heels of Mars Climate Meteorite, too....those who don't study history and all that, I guess... - Mark

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

ENIAC book

by yoda＠isr.ist.utl.pt

Hi. I've just finished reading the book "ENIAC" by Scott McCarthey, and loved it. Has anyone also read it? Any comments? Cheers, -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura <yoda(a)isr.ist.utl.pt> *** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Teaching Assistant and MSc Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585

26 years, 5 months

3
2
0 0

PDP-11/45 documents

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

All, A couple of people have asked what 11/70 docs I have, turns out they were 11/45 docs. Perhaps that is better :-) This is what I have: DEC-11-HIAB-D PDP-11 INTERFACE MANUAL SECOND EDITION DEC-11-HRFD-D RF11/RS11 DECdisk System Manual EK-KD11A-MM-001 KD11-A processor maintenance manual DEC-11-HTMAA-D-D TM11 DECmagtape system EK-TU10-TM-001 TU10 DECmagtape master system manual DEC-11-HKBB-D KB11-A central processor unit maintenance manual EE-11040-TM-002 PDP 11/40, -11/35 (21" chassis) System Manual DEC-11-H45C-D PDP-11/45 and PDP-11/50 system maintenance manual EK-11045-MM-007 PDP-11/45, -11/50, -11/55 system maintenance manual EK-1145-OP-001 PDP-11/45, 11/50, 11/55 system users manual EK-KE11E-OP-001 KE11-E and KE11-F instruction set options user manual EK-KT11D-OP-001 KT11-D memory management option users manual EK-MF11U-MM-003 MF11-U/UP core memory system maintenance manual EK-MS11A-MM-006 MS11-A,B,C memory systems maintenance manual EK-MS11A-OP-001 MS11-A,B,C memory systems users's manual DEC-11-HMSB-D PDP-11/45 MS11 semiconductor memory systems maint. manual EK-MF11U-PM-001 MF11-U/UP Core Memory Preventative Maintenance EK-11035-OP-001 PDP-11/35 (BA11-DA, DB 10 1/2" mounting box) system users manual A manilla folder of stuff on the PC04/PC05 punch What I really want/need is the VT340 PROGRAMMERS MANUAL (the big thick one that talks about ReGIS graphics and Sixels and all that stuff). So if you've got a VT340 manual and one or more of the above manuals is on _your_ "gotta have it" list. Send me email. (Or a VT340-G2 would be ok too :-) --Chuck

26 years, 5 months

2
1
0 0

Opening the Sun Lunchbox (411 Style Case)

by KFergason＠aol.com

might be a screw in the upper back center. take that out. towards the back on each side in the upper piece is a catch. push the case in at these points and lift up. now take it outside and blow the dust out. ( i dunno, every IPC and IPX I have opened was real dusty) any scsi drive should work. if it is a Barracuda, i would be careful about installing it internally. heat and power and all that. might work though, i've seen it done. Kelly In a message dated 9/30/99 10:40:44 PM Central Daylight Time, rkaplan(a)accsys-corp.com writes: > Hi - > > I wonder if someone could help me - I have two questions. > > I recently acquired a SPARCStation IPC. I have it up and running. > The IPC's peripherals come in these lunch box style cases, "411"'s. > > 1. Can someone tell me how to open these cases? > 2. If I have a Seagate SCSI Drive, would that be compatible with the > IPC? > > Thanks in advance for any help. > > Randy >

26 years, 5 months

7
13
0 0

Classical Computing software?

by Jgzabol＠aol.com

There is the UNIX preservation society, who have a large collection of historic UNIX objects and sources. Search for "PUPS Unix preservation society" on the web, and you will find it. John G. Zabolitzky

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

Classical Computing software?

by ToddJ＠symresources.com

My bulletin board system has over 4 gigs of classic computer games. They are all games that haven't been sold since 1993. I also have the really old DOS versions. I know it is illegal to have pirated games and software, but this is stuff that you just can't find or buy ANYWHERE and there is no commercial demand for such programs. Todd -----Original Message----- From: Rodrigo Ventura [mailto:yoda@isr.ist.utl.pt] Sent: Thursday, September 30, 1999 3:12 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Classical Computing software? Hi. Are there any repositories on the net containing ancient software? For instance, tape dumps of very old UNIX versions, or Symbolics LISP system. Is anyone collecting this kind of stuff in elecronic form? Cheers, -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura <yoda(a)isr.ist.utl.pt> *** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Teaching Assistant and MSc Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585

26 years, 5 months

2
1
0 0

Small parts request

by af-list＠lafleur.wfi-inc.com

Small but fairly important... I need drive mounting trays for a MacIIfx, floppy and HD. If someone has these for cheap, let me know...there are a couple on eBay but I don't want to wait the week and a half it would take to complete the transaction... Thanks, Aaron

26 years, 5 months

2
1
0 0

floppy controller IC (was Re: Fixing a PET?)

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

In a message dated 09/29/1999 3:04:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: > > Interestingly, with this system when a disk is formatted it is required > that > > the number of TPI be input. This is then stored on the disk so I might > have > > I assume that's total number of tracks, or something similar. Yes, the total number of tracks. > LDOS (and related OSes) on the TRS-80s does much the same thing. When you > format a disk it asks you for the number of sides and number of tracks. > And provided the hardware is capable of handling what you ask for, it > will format and (correctly) use the disk. Interesting -- I'd _not_ be shocked to find out that the maker of the system I use "borrowed" the idea from RadShack. BTW my understanding is that all 5.25 diskettes made today are bin-sorted -- that is, they shoot for DSHD and the fallouts are sold as DSDD. I have a number of "DSDD" diskettes here which work well when formatted with 50+ tracks, although how this is possible with "40 track" DSDD drives I haven't a clue. Perhaps you do. > On the model 1, the original drives were 35track, but all later ones > could do 40 tracks (or a little more, like 42 tracks). Needless to say, > the extra storage, particularly on 'system disks' came in handy back then :-) Fortunately this system doesn't require "system disks" (the os is on an eprom) but I know what you mean. In a floppy based system a few extra KB can _really_ make a difference ;>) Regards, Glen Goodwin 0/0

26 years, 5 months

5
5
0 0

old INTEL documents

by edick＠idcomm.com

Since I've been unable to dispatch these old manuals about which I wrote last week to the VCF for handoff to Hans Franke, I've decided that I may just hold onto them until I've had time to scan them and find a suitable web site at which I can make them available to all who desire. In the meantime, if there's one you need, contact me, as I'll put your request on the pile to scan in order of the resulting precedence. That will cost less and motivate me to make sure the sheet feeder on my scanner works properly. Dick

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

Off for a few days!

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Hello, port-vax and classiccmp folk! I'll be de-subscribing until Monday so I don't get inundated with mail while I'm off at the Vintage Computer Festival. This means if you want to get in touch with me, you'll need to send me a personal note (though I fully expect to see a lot of you at VCF). ;-) Later! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

IBM System/34 disk squeal?

by rws＠enteract.com

Hi- I fired up my System/34 tonight for the first time since it was retired in '95. Everything seemed to come up OK, except the 4 model 62PC disk drives started squealing as soon as they were powered on. It was deafening for about 10 seconds and gradually went away in about a minute. It came back a couple of times softly during the 10 minutes I ran them. While I fired up I was listening for ting-ting-ting of HDI and all I could hear is this squeal. I was also shining a light over the disk surface (clear HDA's are great- why aren't all disks this way?) on one of the drives and I didn't see any scratches forming, nor did I see them after powering off. The head actuators were unlocked (I've always moved the machine with them locked, but they were never locked at the company I got them from). Any ideas what might have caused this? My best guess was the spindle motor brakes, but it's impossible to tell with my head in a box full of squealing drives. Is is safe to run like this? I haven't moved the heads yet, but they seemed to quiet down after running for a while. Thanks, Richard

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

Media interchange sillinesss (Was: floppy controller IC (was Re:

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

Grumpy Ol' Fred wrote: In a message dated 9/30/99 11:41:38 AM EST, cisin(a)xenosoft.com writes: << The 96TPI head can not do very good job of erasing or writing over the wide track. Some people claim success, but _I_ want better quality than that. >> Hit 'em with a bulk tape eraser first. << This must be a new meaning of "successfully" of which I was not previously aware. Did you store data on them? Yup. << Did you read the data? Yup. << Did the data last for more than a few days? Yup. << Do you CARE about the reliability of data? Nah - just a bunch of 0s and 1s anyway ;>) Actually my concern is with the reliability of the _media_ -- plenty of _data_ is crap regardless of the nature of the media it's stored on . . . Glen Goodwin 0/0

26 years, 5 months

2
1
0 0

floppy controller IC (was Re: Fixing a PET?)

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

In a message dated 09/30/1999 5:07:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, donm(a)cts.com writes: > > ISTR formatting DSHD diskettes to 360 KB in an emergency (we're talking > > IBM-type pcs here) but only after hitting them with a bulk tape eraser to > > wipe them clean, and then using the proper DOS FORMAT parameters . . . > > Was this in a 1.2mb drive? I never tried that, only in a 360k drive. > > Hmmm! Interesting, I just tried it and it seems to work. Even wrote to > it in a 360k drive and it was readable. Question is, how long? It was in a 1.2mb drive (although others on the list will doubtless say this can't be true). As for stablilty, this was a long time ago but ISTR reading one of the disks a few weeks later. Glen Goodwin 0/0

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

RCA 1861, NTSC and a DEC VR-201

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Sep 30, 19:13, Tony Duell wrote: > Subject: Re: RCA 1861, NTSC and a DEC VR-201 > > Blue-Red-Black-Gold = 62 ohms 5% tolerance > > > > The last is rather unlikely, since it's not an E12 or even E24 preferred > > value. > > Isn't it? It's certainly a fairly common resistor value, and I thought it > was the one between 56 and 68 in the E24 series. Er, I may have meant E6/E12. 62 *is* part of E24. I'm glad someone was reading it carefully :-) It's not particularly common though; E12 values are still more commonly used, in my experience. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 5 months

2
1
0 0

RCA 1861, NTSC and a DEC VR-201

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Sep 30, 10:25, Mark Tapley wrote: > Subject: Re: RCA 1861, NTSC and a DEC VR-201 > ethan said: > > >Yellow-Purple-Gold-Gold resistor, then tied to ground via > >a Grey-Red-Black-Gold (might be Sky Blue-Red-Black-Gold) and then through one > >of the rear pots. I would spec the values, but I'm not used to such odd > >colors > >in the significant digits of resistors (just as tolerance bands). Would a > >EE care to translate these? Might that second one be 92 Ohms? Could the > >first one be 7.5 Ohms? > > Puzzles me too. > > Silver 1e-2 > Gold 1e-1 > 1 Black 1e0 First 2 digits give mantissa, > 2 Brown 1e1 3rd digit gives exponent, > 3 Red 1e2 4th band gives quality of resistor (if present), else +/- 20% > 4 Orange 1e3 (silver = +/- 10%, gold= +/- 5%, red = +/- 2%) > 5 Yellow 1e4 5th band (if present) gives reliability (mil-spec, etc.) > 6 Green 1e5 > 7 Blue 1e6 Example: red-yellow-orange-gold = 2,4,10^3, 5% = 24k Ohm, 5% > 8 Violet 1e7 > 9 Gray (From Horowitz & Hill, The Art of Electronics, 1st Edition > 0 White pp. 645-646) > > No I'm not an EE but with Horowitz and Hill *anyone* can play an EE on TV, > so here's my guess: > > Yellow-Purple-Gold-Gold : 5 8 1e-1 5% = 5.8 +/- 0.29 Ohms > Grey-Red-Black-Gold : Confederate Oil-filled resistor :-) ok, ok.... > 9 3 1e0 5% = 93 +/- 4.65 Ohms > > Ok, if a *real* EE hasn't already appeared, please do so and set me straight. > - Mark Your colours are off by one :-) Black=0, white=9. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

floppy controller IC (was Re: Fixing a PET?)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Sep 30, 19:08, Tony Duell wrote: > Subject: Re: floppy controller IC (was Re: Fixing a PET?) > > I think that you are confusing DSHD and 96tpi which are not necessarily > > the same thing. Most DSDD disks will format to 96tpi (720k on 5.25"), > > Odd... I've had a lot of problems doing that. In my experience, most 360K > (DS 40 track) disks will not format to 80 tracks (and won't format on a > Sirius, or a CBM8050, or...). Interesting. I've *never* had *that* problem, except with disks that were definitely defective (weren't reliable on any drive), although I had a few really old ones that worked fine as SS but not DS. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

DataChief

by Ferrousp＠aol.com

Anyone out there have any experience with a Data Chief. It consists of a Commodore floppy drive mated to a Seagate MFM drive in a large AT-type case and controlled by a Commodore C-64 or C-128. I have 2 of them I am restoring and would appreciate any information you might have. Thanks, Tim Knight

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

floppy controller IC (was Re: Fixing a PET?)

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

In a message dated 09/30/1999 1:05:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, donm(a)cts.com writes: > I think that you are confusing DSHD and 96tpi which are not necessarily > the same thing. You might be right (about my confusion) ;>) > Most DSDD disks will format to 96tpi (720k on 5.25"), > even the generics. But I have yet to successfully format a DSDD (360k) > to 1.2mb or a DSHD (1.2mb) to 360k. ISTR formatting DSHD diskettes to 360 KB in an emergency (we're talking IBM-type pcs here) but only after hitting them with a bulk tape eraser to wipe them clean, and then using the proper DOS FORMAT parameters . . . Then again, I've been wrong before ;>) Regards, Glen Goodwin 0/0

26 years, 5 months

4
4
0 0

RCA 1861, NTSC and a DEC VR-201

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > So how can I soup up the output of the 1861 to drive a 75ohm input? > > Well, if you want the easy way, there are some lovely Elantec chips > (EL2001, EL2002, EL2003, IIRC) that are unity-gain buffers with some > high bandwidth that are designeed to drive video cables. They're pretty > easy to use, but you probably put them on a ground plane, and you > _certainly_ need to decouple them. I am unfamiliar with these chips. > If you want a kludge, how about opening up the VR201 (it's one screw on > the back, extend the leg, and pull the shell off) and looking for a 75 > Ohm resistor between the video input and ground. I have the PCB for a VR-201 right here (I dropped one a year or so ago, blowing the CRT. :-P ) > Try removing it -- it > may increase the impedance enough for it to work, although the VR201 is > now non-standard. It's been a long time since I've been inside a VR201, > so I can't be sure this resistor exists, but it's worth a try. Looking around, I don't see anything that is obviously that value. Going around the board, since we've been discussing internals, besides the external bright/contract pots, there are pots labelled (on the insulating paper) VH, H, VL, HH, PH, FOCUS and CUTOFF. There is an unlabelled variable resistor near the input connector. On the input connector, it looks like this from the PCB... | | | | | 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 | | | 1 2 3 4--5--6 7--8 Pins 4, 5, 6 and 13 appear to be ground Pins 7 and 8 appear to be +12V Pins 14 and 15 go off to the keyboard connector Pin 12 appears to be video. It goes off under the connector, through a 0 Ohm jumper, across a Yellow-Purple-Gold-Gold resistor, then tied to ground via a Grey-Red-Black-Gold (might be Sky Blue-Red-Black-Gold) and then through one of the rear pots. I would spec the values, but I'm not used to such odd colors in the significant digits of resistors (just as tolerance bands). Would a EE care to translate these? Might that second one be 92 Ohms? Could the first one be 7.5 Ohms? I'd rather not have to mod a VR-201. I want to have a nice, portable solution, even if I have to make a mod or two to the VIP. Any easy transistor/resistor hacks to drive more video current? Thanks, -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

26 years, 5 months

3
2
0 0

HP3000 Gear Available In Seattle Area...

by af-list＠lafleur.wfi-inc.com

If anyone is interested in some HP3000 gear around Seattle, please let me know. The guy with the stuff doesn't want to be contacted directly and is looking for someone who can pick it up locally. I only wish I had time for a road-trip! Bring a truck! He's got: 1 - Series 37 (parts mostly because of a bad power supply) 1 - Micro 3000 GX (4 Meg + 300M Disc + 9145 + 8 ports) 1 - Micro 3000 RX (4 Meg + 300M Disc + 9144 + 16 ports) 3 - 7937 - 627M HPIB disc drives (BIG) 2 - Standalone 9144 drives 1 - 7980 - 6250 BPI Tape drive 1 - 7958 - 130M Disc Drive Nice gear... Cheers, Aaron

26 years, 5 months

1
0
0 0

Media interchange sillinesss (Was: floppy controller IC (was Re:

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

Fascinating stuff, the old "HD/DD/SD" debate rages even today. Fortunately half of the conversation gets filtered on this end. Fred's absolutely correct. I can add only one Factoid that was true in 1986 which was that Sony and Verbatim had both admitted that they were only made double sided diskette media and the single sided disks were in fact double sided capable. But _nobody_ ever claimed they used a single emulsion for both HD and DD disks. For formats where the emulsion was the same for SD vs DD disks they did use the same media. --Chuck

26 years, 5 months

2
1
0 0

2026

2025

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

2000

1999

1998

1997

test-drb