- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

Archiving data has as many definitions as there are people interested in it. At work we talk about archiving x-ray images on film for 7 years for adults and 25 years for children. Physical loss of the data is more of a problem than deterioration of the media. I have data on 12" optical packs that are 5 years old and there are conversion/data retrieval services that will retrieve my data but the cost is prohibitive. If I tell the powers in charge (PIC) that it will cost them $5 to retrieve an image that was created for $1 they think I am crazy. However if there is a lawyer making the request and the risk is $10,000,000 then the PIC are happy to pay. Currently we may have for a single patient's cardiac angiography study about 1,000 35mm images, about 1 GB. The system now uses CDROM-RW and puts the images all on 1 CD using JPEG compression, they swear it will last 25 years. I guess we will wait and see. The big issue for magnetic media archival is that it is an ongoing process with very few retrievals ever actually requested. If every 5 years I need to refresh my magnetic data then I have a reoccurring cost. This seems to be what many DP operations are planning. If I ask for lots of dollars for saving old data most organizations will laugh. I'll bet when reality or a lawsuit hits they will hope to beg forgiveness for loosing the data. Most media storage lifetimes are extrapolated from accelerated testing and assume optimal humidity and temperature. If you want proven lifetimes then there are only several known/proven methods. I know the government and the Mormons, two separate entities, are storing data etched on iridium substrates in human readable form. They talk about lifetimes of 1,000's of years. Other examples are stone tablets, photographic film, and paper. I think that we can eliminate stone tablets for storing magnetic data. Paper seems to be cumbersome and is fairly fragile. That leaves photographic methods. Photographic images from the Civil War still exist. Source code or HEX dumps on photographic media may be the best way. Maybe photographic film quality "paper tape" is the answer. The other solution may be photographic film floppy disks. I'd better get right off to my patent attorney and file. I've started babbling. Mike

26 years, 2 months

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VAX-11? and some C64 stuff

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>On May 31, Jason McBrien wrote: >> First, there was the PDP/8 which came out in the sixties. It was a largish >> "Minicomputer" meaning it didn't fill a room like the IBM 360's, but you >> couldn't exactly toss it in a closet either. Then came the PDP/11, which was >> a bit smaller and 16-Bit in the seventies. Then came the VAX 11/750, >> Digital's first 32-Bit mainframe, in the late seventies/early eighties, and >> dominated the minicomputer market for quite a while. The first VAXes where >> large cabinet sized affairs, needing wacky 380V power mains and hard drives >> the size of a decent size car transmission. Then came the VAXStation 2000, >> which had almost all the power of a VAX 11/750 in a case the size of a >> largish shoebox. The home minicomputer was born. Through the eighties DEC >> still made the huge company-running VAX 7000's, 8000's, 9000's, and 10000's, >> but also made smaller workstation-style counterparts, the VAX 3100's, >> 4000's, MicroVAXes, VAXStations, and VAX-Servers. You can pick up a 3100 or >> 2000 for under $50 if you look hard. 4000's are nicer and run upwards $100. By 1971 a PDP-8 did fit nicely in a closet, small one at that. The VAX lineup was: 1978 1988 780----750---730---microvax-I---MicrovaxII---MV2000 None of the above require 380V 3phase your thinking of the 8650 and others. The 780 did require three phase but was not a bad deal and the 750 and 730 were 110V power. Allison

26 years, 2 months

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Finds

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>On May 31, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> Of course since I have a 60Mhz RS/6000 on my desk at work and refuse to >> give it up for a state of the art single or dual processor PC my opinions >> of acceptable speed might be a little outside the norm :^) Can it connect to the net and run a real IP stack (of course!). Do it run the require apps? Good enough. The criteria is does it do what I require of it, adaquately fast, with acceptable conectivity/compatability? Then again I run DOS, NT(on 486s) and VMS. Allison

26 years, 2 months

1
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VAX-11? and some C64 stuff

by rexstout＠uswest.net

What fun! I got a book called "VAX-11 Assembly Language Programming." What's a VAX-11? And I also ended up with yet another printer, an older wedge-shaped C-64 with a 1541 drive, and lots of programming stuff for the C64. HesMon, HesKit, Pascal, Forth, and a pile of assembly stuff. Eventually I get around to putting it all together and try to program it, but right now I don't have the room or the time(damn! college is hard...). -- /--------------------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ rexstout(a)uswest.net | | list admin for orham and ham-mac at www.qth.net | | KD7BCY pdxham at www.egroups.com | \--------------------------------------------------/

26 years, 2 months

7
6
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VAX-11? and some C64 stuff

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On May 31, healyzh(a)aracnet.com wrote: > > The good thing, though, about using "original" DEC monitors on > > machines like those is that you can get a wonderfully HUGE tube with a > > deliriously tight dot pitch and fabulous video quality for next to > > nothing because they're fixed-frequency. > > > > The PeeCee world's inability to develop video systems that don't > > require changing sync rates every time the wind blows has afforded the > > Real Workstation world a wonderful advantage...a plethora of gorgeous, > > huge monitors that can be had for a song. :-) > > BUT, if you're short on Desktop space, one really nice 21" multisync monitor > is your best friend. Well, that, X-Windows, and a digital KVM switch. > Remember all those beautiful big monitors take up a lot of space, generate a > lot of heat, and weigh a lot. True...which is why I run *one* machine with a framebuffer...the one I sit in front of. Heavy use of telnet and the DISPLAY environment variable are my friends. :-) I mean, realistically...I'm ONE person, I sit in ONE chair at a time, I drink from ONE can of Mountain Dew at a time...why do I need more than one video system at a time? -Dave McGuire

26 years, 2 months

1
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OSI C4P MF floppy drive - troubleshooting

by PasserM＠umkc.edu

In addition to Mr. Willig's C1P (thanks!), I now have a C4P MF with which I am having floppy troubles. When I was a kid, I couldn't afford disk drives, so I'm not entirely sure what to do. - The machine works with a known good drive (an MPI from the C1P MF). However, it does not work with either of its own two drives. - All the power supplies are good--they all work with the known good C1P MF's drive. - When I answer "D" to "H/D/M?", the drive starts to step, then just stops. This happens with either drive (strapped to DS0), and with either just one or both drives connected. Are there some obvious things that I should try? I know I'm going to come off as a Philistine to some here, but are there any modern drives I can use (e.g. 360K double sided drives)? Does anyone know the secrets of the drive jumpers? (The C4P MF's drives have no indication of manufacturer anywhere visible.) I appreciate any help or advice you can share--thanks! --Michael Passer

26 years, 2 months

1
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OT: Archiving data (LONG)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> I think mike was talking about storing data on photographic film, like >> many of the microfiche data storage systems already in use, but intended >> for direct computer reading. Many films will resolve 100 line pairs >> per millimeter; this directly translates to about 3.2 MBytes per >> square inch. >Yes, but how long can we expect the film to last? Decades, if processed sloppily, or centuries, if processed archivally. The availability and maintainability of the readout systems becomes, IMHO, the deciding factor. If the data is stored as human-readable text this isn't so much a problem, until languages change or are forgotten at least. Tim.

26 years, 2 months

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Microfische readers available

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

With all this talk of archival media, I'm reminded that I have a couple of fische readers that I'd like move out (I aquired a double reader as an upgrade). They are a pair of Bell+Howell ABR-917s. I have copies of the operation manual to go with them. The copyright date is 1989. Any takers? Given the size and fragility, pick-ups are preferred over shipping. Shipping would be based on cost of packing materials and actual UPS charges (not MBX Etc) from Columbus, OH (43201). -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd(a)iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/

26 years, 2 months

1
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IBM I/O Selectric/Posting Machine (Was RE: Atari 800 keyboards)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> That's one of the PRACTICAL uses of a keyboard actuator! > Never mind trying to use a Selectric as a printer, the REAL use of a > Dynatyper or KGS-80 is for copying megabytes of text to exercise a > keyboard. God, the dynatyper, I remember that... On a related note, I have an old I/O Selectric, not the generalized model, but one that appears to have been a teller terminal of some kind. Perhaps it was even used by a vehicle license branch. Anyway, I never could get it to function with the IBM controller that came with it (which I think put out EBCDIC), but it also came with an aftermarket controller (which I think put out ASCII). If anyone has been searching high and low for one of these, I'd probably let go of it for the right price or trade. Shipping will be a killer, tho; it's very heavy. -doug q

26 years, 2 months

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OT: Archiving data (LONG)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> >Mylar punched paper tape has a VERY long lifetime and is even human > >readable (well sorta ;)). > > What ever happened to the really high density laser punched > mylar/paper > tape that was being talked about so much a few years ago? Much higher > density than magnetic tape, and very very long archival life. What about that optical tape they used in the movie "Brainstorm"??? Somehow, I always thought they'd bought a failed technology rather than just mock something up. If it wasn't real, it was still as cool as Hell! *fantasy mode off* -doug q

26 years, 2 months

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Defining Disk Image Dump Standard

by paulrsm＠ameritech.net

---------- > From: Richard Erlacher <richard(a)idcomm.com> > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Defining Disk Image Dump Standard > Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 08:28 PM > > If you put floppy diskettes on the shelf and wait 20 years, you'll see > what's left of your archive. This weekend I backed up a set of factory-original Apple II CP/M disks for MicroPro applications (Wordstar, Mailmerge, Spellstar, Datastar, Reportstar, Calcstar, etc). The disks were dated 1979-1982 and there were no errors reading them. I copied them twice: once to another floppy, and once to the Apple II disk archive format (ShrinkIt) on my hard drive. Twenty years is not too long if you use single-sided single density diskettes that cost $10 each (in 1980 dollars!). I don't trust today's ten-cent double-sided high-density diskettes for any long term storage. Paul R. Santa-Maria Ann Arbor, Michigan USA paulrsm(a)ameritech.net

26 years, 2 months

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Defining Disk Image Dump Standard

by rachael_＠gmx.net

>On Sun, May 28, 2000 at 10:38:55PM +0000, Mark wrote: >>The Catweasel disk controller hardware (available as an ISA card for PCs) is >>capable of similar things. However due to its developer (stupidly IMO) >>refusing to release details on how to program it directly, this would be of >>no use; you're stuck with the provided drivers which are apparently pretty >>poor. >I thought he had changed his mind about this? When I first talked to him >he seemed pretty paranoid, but I think he eventually realized that there's >not a big enough market for there to be even a point in stealing his idea >and competing with him (although, I sure hope he's done a PCI version by >the time ISA slots disappear entirely). I certainly remember that he >softened his position about this, but I don't know if that turned into a >manual. Then again, the CW/ISA board comes with no manual anyway! >Anyway I sorted out a lot of the Catweasel/ISA details, from disassembly and >the few sources that were available when I was doing it, it might be enough >to write a driver (I've gotten stuck with my own work on RX01 and RX23 style >drivers, I can read data enough of the time to think I'm really close but it >works less than half the time). >Here's what I've worked out on the I/O ports (default base is 320h): Oh, i might try some of this info I have a catweasel, sitting in my amiga thoug. I would love to find a way to access the wierd 1mb format of the old cbm 8250 drive. Regards Jacob Dahl Pind

26 years, 2 months

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Documenting how old computers were used

by mgregory＠vantageresearch.com

When people receive complete systems (with software, manuals, etc.) do you make any attempt to document the state of the system when you received it? For example, do you record what programs were on the hard drive, what peripherals were included, what the system was used for (either what you were told, or could infer), etc? It seems to me that increasingly, social historians and museums are more interested in _how_ an artifact was used than in the thing itself. But often , especially when I receive multiple examples of the same system, I mix and match parts and programs to suit myself, and lose track of which disk drive came with which CPU, which software was originally installed on each, etc. Information is obviously being lost here. I'd be interested to know what other list members are doing, and how important you think the information being lost is. Regards, Mark Gregory

26 years, 2 months

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Finds

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On May 31, Jason McBrien wrote: > Cheapo bonanza! Grabbed a TRS-80 Model 100 Portable, in the deluxe hard case > with tape drive and accoustic coupler modem for $5! Works like a charm. > Snagged a Network General "The Sniffer" Protocol > Analyzer, looks to be a modified Compaq Portable II, can't find any info on > the sniffer program though (NAI bought out Network General, and doesn't take > kindly to supporting older apps) Also grabbed a stripped RS/6000 320H for > $1, a few odd cables, and a loaded Sun SPARCStation 10 for $25 (It was in > with the SPARC 1's, so someone must have missed the 0, I know I did :) Good > luck hunting! Whoa! I'll triple your money on that SS10! ;) -Dave McGuire

26 years, 2 months

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Defining Disk Image Dump Standard

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>If you're serious about creating an archive. It needs to be permanent, so >it's essentially requisite that the media be write-once. I'd say you're >better off with an OTP EPROM. Hardware to create them is dirt-simple to >create, eraseable/rewritable equivalents are readily available, and even if >the OTP's (very inexpensive, by the way) become scarce, there will still be >rewritables available which can be write protected by removing the VPP or >program pin. Use those and you'll have a real archive. What's more, there >are no mechanical components, nothing to rust, become misaligned, or wear >out. Your kidding? Right? Eproms, have a finite random failure rate and while better in some ways over time you still run the risk of total failure due to: Environment, humidity increases failure rate. Temperature Time Electrical stress. This does not include ESD and circuit mishandling. it still assumes compatable technology (try reading a ECL prom using TTL). Add to this the great number of devices needed to contain said archive your risking the boat in exactly the same way as CDrom or on shorter time spans magnetic media. All of this is seperate from the format that will assure recovery of the data. Myself I'd rather risk even floppies with their known weakness and use redundant recording and added error detection/correction. Even when applied to CDroms this is more viable. Most of all it matters not what you do, what you do it on! It does matter that sufficient data on what was done is available along with the archive to reconstruct not only the data but the systems that archived it (or can recover it!!!). Books work because they can be preserved and copied if they start to decompose and we teach the languges needed to read them. Reminds me of an old theological arguement of how many angles can dance on the head of a pin. Untill we have music, a pin and angles it's simply an exercise with a meaningless outcome to all but the faithful. Allison

26 years, 2 months

2
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OS/2

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > What I'm saying is that the way is *should* work is: > > > > pointer fault on attempt to execute faulted pointer to > DLL routine > > segment fault on attempt to execute code in unmapped > DLL routine's > > segment > > page fault on attempt to execute code in unmapped DLL > routine's page > > > > And in a really proper OS you'd also get a page fault if > the page map > > containing the PageMapTableEntries weren't currently mapped in (and > > yes you can page out page maps). > > > > And before you point out that segments went away from Win32 let > > me say that too is another fatal flaw with the Windows family of > > OS's. > > Is it just me -- or does this sound like Multics segments? Dang- busted again. :-) -doug q

26 years, 2 months

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Get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? [Was: Re: Notes on repa...

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

<< On Thu, 25 May 2000, Mark Gregory wrote: > On the whole, your reply seemed remarkably snotty and unhelpful, and didn't R. D. Davis replied: < Sorry it appeared that way; it was posted only out of concern for the < preservation of older computers. >> Good grief, man, give us a break! If that note was posted "only out of concern" then why did it include this bit of condescension???: < Don't you mean an I/O card with a short circuit somewhere? If you < don't know what a short circuit is, just ask, or experiment... e.g., < if, for example, you touch the conductors connected to the hot and < ground connectors of a mains socket, and a fuse blows or a circuit < breaker trips, you'll find that you've learned a lot about short < circuits and saving classic computers. ;-) Anyone who reads this list on even a semi-regular basis knows that Mr. Rigdon is well aware of what a short is. Why the put-down? Do you think that you are conducting a high-school electric shop class and talking to a bunch of eighth-graders? Personally, I have never received anything from Joe Rigdon except help when I needed it, which is more than I can say of you. Actually, I'm glad that you blatantly displayed your arrogance in your post to this list. Now everyone has a better idea of who they're dealing with when they see a note signed "R. D. Davis." Glen Goodwin 0/0

26 years, 2 months

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WD1770 help needed

by aek＠spies.com

"In the case of the 1771 and 179x series it's possible to build a really neat circuit I've seen but never tried to match, which uses the /TEST pin on the FDC to cause the device to put out its pulses much faster, allowing them to be accumulated externally in a counter, which, drives a DAC which drives a VCO, which drives the counter as it downcounts the number of steps, thereby slewing the head assembly. This could lead to an interesting but lengthy discussion. " Sounds like an ideal candidate for reimplementation in a single chip microcontroller.

26 years, 2 months

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Defining Disk Image Dump Standard

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>> No, they are not the same. the latter will do DD and the 1773 was single >> density. >> The 1773 was used on TRS80, Icom, and other early systems that were >> softsector. > > >I can assure you that a 1773 is capable of double density operation. I shuffled the 1771 with 1773. Oops, it's easy to do with WD numbering. Allison

26 years, 2 months

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Defining Disk Image Dump Standard

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>However, I've just thought of a better example : I once saw a card for an >Apple ][ containing a 1771 and associated components (and probably a >ROM). It linked to an external box containing 2 8" drives. The official >purpose was to allow an Apple with a Z80 Softcard to read standard SSSD >CP/M disks. But I am _sure_ it could have been used from Apple DOS given >the right software. > >Which means the archive format would have to allow for : > >Apple ][, 16 sector 5.25" GCR-encoded disk >and >Apple ][, 26 sector, 8", FM encoded disk. > >It may be a _very_ unusual format, but a proposed archive format should >be able to handle _anything_. In any case, I would think that 256 >sub-formats for each machine would be plenty, which means this adds _1 >byte_ to the archive size. Not really a problem IMHO. You also forget the trackstar apple][ board for PCxt systems that could use the DOS disks for storage via the PC hardware never minding it's direct interface. To make it work in the end you need some basic documentation and a rosetta stone to assure the results are valid. IE: what are you looking for, how to get it, and did you get that? My solution for myself... use the newest media the system can support or I can easily transfer bulk to. 3.5" floppies are OK. Then figure out what I'm saving. 300 copies of CP/Ms PIP for V2.2 are pointless as are ASM, and all the other common stuff. Also how many copies of worstar for ADM3 do I need? Reducing this is easier on physical storage too. Also using a system that can handle multiple formats or a common one via simple changes to reduce the possible medias used to one helps. In the end it's easy to work backward to say 8" CPM SSSD with an CCS bios if you have a system image, the CCS unique utilities, CPM std utilities, track layout and of couse a system that can write it all on a suitable floppy. this avoids the need to have a real CCS bootable disk as you can make as many as you need. Then again if you have a CCS system with a monitor rom you could down load the peices and use itself to write to disk as native. For example much of my archive is on AMPROLB. It is very copyable Z80 design and as is can format/accept/boot/copy a large number of formats: Both 5.25" and 3.5". My S100 system can bridge the 8" 5.25 and 3.5" rift making a very large number of formats possible in short order. Both system even can read/write dos compatable disks (if it's on the WC cdrom it's auto archived). So softsector is covered {with exceptions like Intel M2fm and RX02 mixed}. Hardsector and vendor unique at the extreme are more difficult, those include: NorthStar* (all) Apple TRS80 Heath DEC RX02 Intel MDS230 series DD controller and others as they did things that were very specific or unique to them and most common hardware is unable to reproduce it. this is where the challenge lies. Allison

26 years, 2 months

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Get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? [Was: Re: N otes on repa...

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> In article > <Pine.LNX.4.10.10005292236130.22871-100000(a)smarty.smart.net>, > R. D. Davis <rdd(a)smart.net> writes > >Is there any way you can retrieve it from the skip if it ends > >up in there? > > Once it is in the skip, anyone taking it away, other than the waste > disposal people, is stealing it. This has already been made clear to > me. Not sure what country you live in, but if you're in the US, then regardless of whatever munincipal laws have been enacted, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled (on multiple occaisions) that refuse is exactly that- stuff that people no longer want. The most recent case that verified this was when suit was brought against a police department who extracted evidence from someone's trash. The police won that suit, and thus your trash does not receive the constitutional protection that other property gets. respectfully submitted, -doug q

26 years, 2 months

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Defining Disk Image Dump Standard

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>>Just as an aside, I recently encountered a datasheet for the WD 1773 FDC >>(similar to 1770/72). Do you know of any systems in which it was used? the 1770/1772 was the 1793+8229+glue on one chip. >Wasn't the 1773 a single-chip version of the 1793, or am I out in Left The 1773 was the earlier single density controller. The 1793 was the later DD and SD controller in nearly the same pinout and basic IO. >Field? The early Tandy controllers that required 12V were based on the >1793, and weren't the later 5Vonly ones based on the 1773? No. The tandy used the 1773 and was wired to provice the -5V and +12V as needed but there were parts that didn't use the -5V (SMC 1773). The 1793 wanted +12 and +5 though there were 5volty only versions later on. Allison

26 years, 2 months

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A moment of silence...

by allain＠panix.com

> At the end of last month, Haltek Electronics, Mountain View, > CA closed their doors... Just read this. > Whatever else happens, I pray that other surplus stores, such > as Weird Stuff and Sharon Industries, aren't next on the chopping > block. -- Bruce Lane Please don't hesitate to post If you hear rumors about any of these threatning to close: Alltronics Computer Literacy Halted Wierd Stuff (other like Surplus) Fry's (Yes, even Fry's) News of such a thing could trigger a long put-off return visit. John A. SValley res. 1987-1990.

26 years, 2 months

1
0
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Kim-1 analog portions

by paulrsm＠ameritech.net

---------- > From: Ryan K. Brooks <ryan(a)inc.net> > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Kim-1 analog portions > Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 04:41 PM > > There's a lot of analog stuff (mostly large caps from what I can tell) > in the lower left. Is this power supply stuff? Tape stuff? I've > got a Sym-1, and doesn't have nearly as much analog on it. At www.6502.org there are links to KIM (and SYM and AIM) pages where you can find photographs and schematics. I am sure you can figure out exactly what that stuff does. (Don't ask me, I'm a software guy not a hardware guy.) Paul R. Santa-Maria Ann Arbor, Michigan USA paulrsm(a)ameritech.net

26 years, 2 months

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Defining Disk Image Dump Standard

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>I always figured the reason for the restriction was dumb boot PROMs, which >only know how to do programmed I/O to the FDC, and 8" DD comes in too fast >for typical 8-bit CPUs of the time to handle with PIO. If the boot PROM on >a particular system is smart enough to set up DMA, no need to require SD. it's an artifact of how people though the DDmedia was speced by IBM and a lack of knowledge of CP/M boot as everyone just followed the book blindly. Not all required {or even had it!} DMA to do DD, CCS didn't. I'd add that DMA was mostly uncommon save for the more refined or robust systems. Allison

26 years, 2 months

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A moment of silence...

by ss＠allegro.com

Re: > > Halted is still here, it was Haltek that went under. > >Dwight > Is HSC the place across the street from WSW and Fry's? > > Where was Haltek? Haltek is/was in Mountain View, off of Moffet & Terra Bella (?), near 101. Halted is in Sunnyvale (?), near Fry's / Costco / (old)NCA / (old) Weirdstuff Warehouse / Action Surplus. If you're coming "south" on Central Expressway, the first exit after Lawrence Expressway is right in front of the Halted building. Stan Sieler sieler(a)allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler

26 years, 2 months

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Sharp MZ80FB

by hofmanwb＠worldonline.nl

Anyone interested in a Sharp MZ80FB dual floppy drive located in Arnhem Holland? Wim

26 years, 2 months

1
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Defining Disk Image Dump Standard

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>On Tue, 30 May 2000, Richard Erlacher wrote: > >> I never understood why the double density CP/M diskettes were not bootable, >> and why "distribution-standard" diskettes had to be bootable. These are two >> different features, and what's important about the "standard" is not that >> it's bootable but that it's defined so as to be universally readable. That was bogus. The list of system that booted off DD tracks both 8"and 5.25" runs long. The standard for CP/M was 8" SSSD FYI. Also AMPROLB, VT180, DECMATEII/III with CP/M APU, NS* DD/QD systems, SB180, Visual1050, Later Kaypros to name a few with 5.25 DD or QD systems. >> The thing that made 5-1/4" "standard" diskettes unachievable back in the >> CP/M days was that people couldn't let go of the notion that every diskette >> had to be bootable. Frankly, I got fine mileage out of diskettes which >> couldn't be booted, yet I never had a problem booting up. This is bogus as CP/M inferred no difference between bootable system disks and non bootble data disks as the format was the same (they could also be different if desired). Bootable media was only important to single disk systems Even then there were utilities to sidestep this. Lastly for the CP/M case there was no specific requirement to boot from disk at all and the EPSON PX-8 was a commercial example of that. Allison

26 years, 2 months

2
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Defining Disk Image Dump Standard

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>> Just as an aside, I recently encountered a datasheet for the WD 1773 FDC >> (similar to 1770/72). Do you know of any systems in which it was used? No, they are not the same. the latter will do DD and the 1773 was single density. The 1773 was used on TRS80, Icom, and other early systems that were softsector. Allison

26 years, 2 months

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free: misc cards for HP 9000 / HP 3000 & other

by ss＠allegro.com

Hi, I have the following cards and MUX panels available for free (for non-ebay use, and you pay shipping): HP 3000/9x5 / HP 9000/8x5 boards: 6 port MUX & cable: board 27140-81001?, cable 28659-63002 (I have two of the above boards/cables) (note: they might possibly work in a 9x7 / 8x7) MUX Panels: 40290-60003: RS 232C Panel 25 Pin (8-port) 40299-60002: RS 232C Full Modem (8-port) Note: neither of the above panels work with either of the above boards/cables. (I.e., the cable/plug aren't even the same size.) Nor do I have cables for these panels. HP 30000/37 ("Mighty Mouse") boards: 3000/37 MUX (no cable or panel) 3000/37 1/2 MB memory Misc: SDI PCA DTC Card: 02345-60021 (No, I don't know what it is, either!) AFAIK, all cards were in working order when pulled from equipment. They're at our office in Cupertino, CA. Those that aren't spoken for will probably be offered on eBay in a week or so, but I wanted ClassicCmp readers to get first chance. thanks, Stan Sieler sieler(a)allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler

26 years, 2 months

1
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Unusual weekend find

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

> Nice find! Wow, that weighs more than my Dynabyte 5100 system! > Are those 8" hard drives? Naw... They are smaller that that. I guess they are 5"? > > Could that be renamed MP/M or a variant of MP/M? > The DOCs are far from complete but, it looks almost like a "shell" of some sort for CPM. The syntax for the very limited set of commands is similar to CP/M although not quite the same. Most of the commands seem to be associated with file & data security and device allocation. I'm got some MP/M docs here (promised to Joe Rigdon next time I see him) so I can compare the syntax of the two OSs... Although, I suspect that "MLX" is just a security and multitasking layer for CPM? I tried to load CPM using a variety of other BOOT images but, so far no luck. I'll have to drag out some more disks and see any of them will work. Before I got it, the owner had told me that it was running PC-MOS and I posted an inquiry about that OS to the group. Either he was mistaken about the OS or the system can run that OS as well. When the OS loads, it indicates "SYSTEM RESIDENT", then "BASIC RESIDENT", then the password prompt. I have tried to stop the boot process by pressing ^C, ESC, and every other trick that I know. But, so far no luck. When the process is interrupted, the system just halts... Dang it! > What's needed is a good, inexpensive, portable "clean room box." A > while back, I saw one of these somewhere, but it wasn't something > marketed to hobbyists and I doubt that it was inexpensive. I could tell the platters weren't spinning so, figured I really didn't have anything to loose. In a situation like this, I think the greatest risk is when the heads are "ripped" away from the surface rather than contamination. It took a considerable tug to get the thing loosened up again and I'm kinda supprised a chunk of the surface didn't come off. Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years, 2 months

1
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Unusual weekend find

by allisonp＠world.std.com

First off, use plain text not RTF or other indigestable formats for messages. > Could that be renamed MP/M or a variant of MP/M? > Could be or Turbodos. OSs... Although, I suspect that "MLX" is just a security and multitasking layer for CPM? Only if it were vanilla CPM as MPM was already multitasking. I tried to load CPM using a variety of other BOOT images but, so far no luck. I'll have to drag out some more disks and see any of them will work. Unlike PCs CPM system had no common bios (commonly none in rom!) so a booter from a like machine might boot and run but not work as the IO could be at different addresses or even use different serial devices {8250, 8251 and Z80 SIO were not similar). Allison

26 years, 2 months

1
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Unusual weekend find

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

Picked up an unusual system this weekend and was wondering if anyone could provide some pointers. The system is a "Lasor Computer" (note the spelling) is housed in a desk-sized cabinent and weighs about 300 LBS. I don't know if it's true but, according to the previous owner, whom purchased it new around 1982, there were only about 300 of these systems ever built. This one is serial number 140, has been in storage since 1985, and is in outstanding condition. It not even dusty inside! It has two 8" floppies, 2 10-MB hard drives, and 16 serial ports. All the major components are mounted in 19" trays so, supposedly everything could go in to a standard rack. When I first saw it, I thought it could be a S-100 system because of the card cage, and power supply configuration. (my mouth was really watering) :-) After removing the cards, it's obviously not S-100 but, looks very similar. The cards look to be the same width as S-100 but they are about 3" deeper and there are no regulators on the cards. The CPU for this thing is an Intel 8086 and all the cards are marked "LASOR SYSTEMS". Anyone know what kinda bus this is? According to the DOCs, the system runs "MLX" which stands for "Multiuser Executive". supposedly, it can read CPM formatted disks. I'm not sure if it will boot CPM or execute CPM apps though. When I tried to boot the system, it got a failure on the boot drive so, I had to do some microsurgery. Seems the heads had stuck to the platters and it took a little coaxing to get the platters spinning again. Hopefully, I didn't hurt the platters too much. I finally did get the system to boot OK but, now I'm getting a "Password" prompt. DOH!!! I have contacted the original user and maybe he'll be able to help me out. I'll keep my fingers crossed. If not, I'll see if I can get it too boot with a CPM disk and hack my way past the password prompt. Also in the deal I got 6 - Televideo 950 terminals, and 4 large printers, and about a mile of wiring. All of the printers are in excellent condition with the exception of the chain printer (Teletype model 40). When I plugged that one in, the letters went flying everywhere. Seems the letters are mounted on a large rubber band that had decomposed sling-shotting pieces everywhere ;-) Oh yeah... I spent $50 bucks for the whole truckload. Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years, 2 months

2
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Kim-1 analog portions

by ryan＠inc.net

So, I just lost an auction for a KIM-1... But this prompted me to ask a question: In the picture of the KIM on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=337577016 There's a lot of analog stuff (mostly large caps from what I can tell) in the lower left. Is this power supply stuff? Tape stuff? I've got a Sym-1, and doesn't have nearly as much analog on it. Just curious, Ryan Brooks ryan(a)inc.net

26 years, 2 months

2
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Papertape and Mylar variant

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Somewhere I have a tape fragment, not from a missile but from some game code. > I think this tape was not fan folded but rolled for storage. Right-o... teletypes with the reader/punch used rolls of paper tape. I have a copy of DEC Monopoly on papertape that I punched myself, as well as a copy of Intel's INTERP-80 (8080a simulator) and a Star Trek game called BIGMES (from an HP 2000). At IU, we had a CDC6600 with an online highspeed punch, and I have a couple of tapes I punched on that, as well as what was left on the roll. I'm not sure if the fanfold method came about for ease of mailing or not; eventually, there were readers available that had "bins" instead of reels, and you could load either fanfold or roll tape in the bins. -doug q

26 years, 2 months

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Defining Disk Image Dump Standard

by rachael_＠gmx.net

>On Fri, 26 May 2000 Vintage Computer GAWD! wrote: >> On Fri, 26 May 2000, John Foust wrote: >> >> > Below is the section from the manual that describes their >> > file format. >> > >> > Each sector written to the file is optionally preceded by an >> > 8-byte header record of the following form: >> > >> > >> > +------+------+------+------+------+------+----------+ >> > | ACYL | ASID | LCYL | LSID | LSEC | LLEN | COUNT | >> > +------+------+------+------+------+------+----------+ >> > >> > ACYL Actual cylinder, 1 byte >> > ASID Actual side, 1 byte >> > LCYL Logical cylinder; cylinder as read, 1 byte >> > LSID Logical side; or side as read, 1 byte >> > LSEC Sector number as read, 1 byte >> > LLEN Length code as read, 1 byte >> > COUNT Byte count of data to follow, 2 bytes. If zero, >> > no data is contained in this sector. >> > >> > All sectors occurring on a side will be grouped together; >> > however, they will appear in the same order as they occurred on >> > the diskette. Therefore, if an 8 sector-per-track diskette were >> > scanned which had a physical interleave of 2:1, the sectors might >> > appear in the order 1,5,2,6,3,7,4,8 in the DOS dump file. >> > >> > After the last specified cylinder has been written to the DOS >> > file, AnaDisk returns to the Main Menu. >> >> This is a good start. The header should include a byte that contains a >> flag indicating the status of the sector (good, bad, etc). >This seems rather "high level" if you are wanting to preserve the exact disk >contents. Though it may be all you can do using a standard PC floppy >controller. >> What about odd formats? I take my experience from the Apple ][. You had >> stuff like half-tracks and quarter-tracks (the head was stepped half-way >> or half of half-way between tracks to store data), odd disk formats >> (custom sector sizes, custom sector layouts, etc.), synchronization >> between tracks (one copy protection scheme was to write a two tracks so >> that if a seek was done from one track to the other, a specific sector >> would be expected under the head as soon as it got to the next track). >I would like to be proved wrong, but there is no way to account for every >possible strange thing that could be done in terms of custom formats, >copy-protection etc., at least in a high level file format that doesn't just >sample the bits coming from the disk. >It would be possible to construct a device for archiving disks at a very low >level. I guess this would be similar to commercial floppy disk duplicators, >except writing data to a file instead of another floppy. The bit stream from >the disk would be sampled at a very high rate to allow for various tricks >that could be done. Or by modifying a floppy drive, the analogue signal from >the read head could be sampled. Tricks like "pulsing" the drive motor during >a write to vary rotation rate, changing the data rate mid-write (e.g. 2us vs >4us per bit cell), changing precompensation values mid write, using custom >non-MFM-or-GCR coding methods, reducing drive motor speed for some tracks >(thus writing long tracks which cannot be duplicated on an unmodified >drive/computer),... >[Long tracks are a common form of copy-protection on Amiga games.] >Such a low-level dump of raw data would at least preserve all (or almost all) >information on the disk. Successfully writing an exact duplicate back to >another floppy would depend on the capabilities of your disk controller. >Still, such as image file could be easily supported by emulators. Also bad >sectors would be preserved, meaning that recovery of most of the data from >them would be possible. >> The AnaDisk software doesn't seem to accomodate copy protected or >> custom-format disks. The standard will have to address these disks as >> well. >You may know that Amiga computers have very flexible floppy controller >hardware. There are several programs on the Amiga that are intended to >image/archive disks at a low level. >These read the raw bits from an entire track in one pass, and store that >(from index to index, plus some). This is independent of the coding method >used >(MFM, GCR or whatever), and of course preserves sector order, distance >between sectors etc. It should be possible to successfully archive almost any >PC floppy disk that way, protected or not. >I don't have many copy-protected PC floppies. Was any famously "evil" type of >disk-based copy-protection used for PC software? I would quite like to try >making a working backup of a disk like this. >The Catweasel disk controller hardware (available as an ISA card for PCs) is >capable of similar things. However due to its developer (stupidly IMO) >refusing to release details on how to program it directly, this would be of >no use; you're stuck with the provided drivers which are apparently pretty >poor. >- -- Mark -------------------------------------------------- = IF this computer is with us now... = =...It must have been meant to come live with us.= = (Belldandy - Goddess First class) = --------------------------------------------------

26 years, 2 months

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Get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? [Was: Re: N otes on repa...

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > Not sure what country you live in, but if you're in the US, then > > regardless of whatever munincipal laws have been enacted, the U.S. > > Supreme Court has ruled (on multiple occaisions) that refuse is > > exactly that- stuff that people no longer want. > > > Well, the rule depends. If it's a commercial dumpster on > private property you're tresspassing and stealing if it's in > the dumpster. At the curb it's on public property and avaiable. Granted... tresspassing is tresspassing. -dq

26 years, 2 months

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OS/2

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Close, but not quite correct. > > GPF is a general protection fault, the most common problem is > a bad or uninitialized pointer. > > What makes a DLL get loaded, or paged in, is a page fault. > Its the same mechanism that causes a swapped out page to be swapped back > in on a 4K boundary. What I'm saying is that the way is *should* work is: pointer fault on attempt to execute faulted pointer to DLL routine segment fault on attempt to execute code in unmapped DLL routine's segment page fault on attempt to execute code in unmapped DLL routine's page And in a really proper OS you'd also get a page fault if the page map containing the PageMapTableEntries weren't currently mapped in (and yes you can page out page maps). And before you point out that segments went away from Win32 let me say that too is another fatal flaw with the Windows family of OS's. -dq

26 years, 2 months

2
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Sellam Explodes

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Criminys... ask a guy to just let the subject drop, and this is what happens. I've blocked any further E-mail from Sellam at this end. It's obvious that I can't even disagree with him now without ticking him off. I'm posting his final message as something of a warning to others who think he can handle things like this in a mature way. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- Date sent: Mon, 29 May 2000 19:48:02 -0700 (PDT) From: "Vintage Computer GAWD!" <foo(a)siconic.com> To: "Bruce Lane" <kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com> Subject: Re: Please let it DROP! On Sat, 27 May 2000, Bruce Lane wrote: > If you value, as I do, the fact that we got along pretty well > during our few past meetings, please let the subject drop. Here and > now. > > It is obvious that we agree to disagree, and I would prefer to > leave it at that point than start a flame-war that's going to leave us > both too pissed off to see straight. Bruce, I value our "friendship" as much as you do, which is to say not enough for you to avoid constantly insulting me like you have the monopoly on valid opinions and to act in a uncivil manner. Basically, take your apoplectic rantings and stick them up your ass. I tried to be patient and not get angry from your last message, but I've never been one to accept a continued stream of abuse, especially >from a dweeb like yourself. I don't want, nor do I need, a reply from you. Any more messages I receive from you on this matter I will consider to be SPAM and, since you live in a state which has laws against that sort of thing, I will not hesitate to file a complaint against you. Best regards, Sellam -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner/Head Honcho, Blue Feather Technologies (www.bluefeathertech.com) kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com "SCSI Users, Unite! Beware the IDEs of March!"

26 years, 2 months

3
2
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Somebody wanted TI S1500

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

I can't find my link to whoever wanted a TI s1500. I think is was a museum. Please respond to mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu. I was diving through my local computer surplus exchange and came across the following. I had to stand on top of a fork-truck and look into a big box to examine all of these. There's goodies in those dusty boxes. TI S1500, also external expansion chassis wd900 Doesn't look like my TI explorer. TI Business Pro TI 990 with 9-track cipher tape equivalent all in 5 foot rack Tektronix 4052 I'm keeping the Tek 4052 but I want to have the surplus exchange transfer the TI S1500 to the museum. I'm taking pictures before I transfer any of these. Mike mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu

26 years, 2 months

1
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Papertape and Mylar variant

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

I seem to remember that back in the good old days (BITGOD) the cruise missile programmers at McDonnell Douglas were required to punch a Mylar version of a paper tape that was the guidance load for each missile and then it was stored in a vault. I guess that you could decode the holes in the tape to "prove" that the guidance load was correct. Somewhere I have a tape fragment, not from a missile but from some game code. I think this tape was not fan folded but rolled for storage. Mike

26 years, 2 months

1
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OS/2

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Eh? You're both wrong. OS/2 used the protected-mode multi-segment > support of the x86, but recall that OS/2 was originally released on the > 286 -- it didn't have any paging support. It's easy to distinguish a > fault during a CS load from a GPF, and no page fault is involved. There is another factor complicating this history lesson. The most extant machine that was OS/2 capable at the time of its launch was the IBM PC/AT. Most of the PC/AT models shipped with mask C of the 80286 processor. There was a flaw in the C mask chip that caused the CX register to be trashed on a GPF. That meant for OS/2 to take advantage of this hardware feature would have required a processor upgrade (they were socketed, PGA) for all these machines. Still, how hard would it have been to include a chip in the package? -dq

26 years, 2 months

1
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Prime Parts: was "Documenting how old computers..."

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

Ok, I'm looking for a SCSI controller (7110 or 7210 are the only two models I know of), and a LHC300 ethernet controller. Got one? Also, looking for an 8mm streaming tape drive. Do you have a manual for PL1/G? -doug q -----Original Message----- From: Steve Robertson [mailto:steverob@hotoffice.com] Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 4:46 PM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Prime Parts: was "Documenting how old computers..." I've got a small Pr1me buried somewhere in my garage. I'm not prositive but, I *think* it's a 2550. It's a complete system but, it has a bad CPU. That being the case, I'll make any of the parts available for anyone that's looking to resurrect one. Let me know exactly what parts you need and I'll see if I have them. I'm really not too familiar with that hardware so, you'll have be *real* specific about the parts you need. I also have a bunch of Pr1me DOCs (many still in the shrink wrap) if someone needs them. I'd like to get a token fee for the parts and of course you'd have to pay shipping from South Florida. Later, Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas Quebbeman [ mailto:dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com <mailto:dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com> ] > Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 3:23 PM > To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: Documenting how old computers were used > > > I'm working on some sources for spares; but I'm not even sure > what I'll find in the machine. The owner had a stroke around > Christmas, and some things are returning more slowly than others. > > But I'll definitely be needed either a 7110 or 7210 SCSI controller > and an LHC300 ethernet controller. > > So, what's a Xyplex? > > -doug q >

26 years, 2 months

1
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Documenting how old computers were used

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> I'd be interested to know what other list members are doing, and how > important you think the information being lost is. I'm glad you posted this. I'm effecting a rescue of a Prime 2455 system, which I should receive in a week. As it stands, I think this already may be parts of different systems, but I'll do as you suggest, and make note of what was installed on it when I first fire it up. Any other Pr1me fans hanging out here??? -doug q

26 years, 2 months

4
3
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Defining Disk Image Dump Standard

by mark_k＠iname.com

On Fri, 26 May 2000 Vintage Computer GAWD! wrote: > On Fri, 26 May 2000, John Foust wrote: > > > Below is the section from the manual that describes their > > file format. > > > > Each sector written to the file is optionally preceded by an > > 8-byte header record of the following form: > > > > > > +------+------+------+------+------+------+----------+ > > | ACYL | ASID | LCYL | LSID | LSEC | LLEN | COUNT | > > +------+------+------+------+------+------+----------+ > > > > ACYL Actual cylinder, 1 byte > > ASID Actual side, 1 byte > > LCYL Logical cylinder; cylinder as read, 1 byte > > LSID Logical side; or side as read, 1 byte > > LSEC Sector number as read, 1 byte > > LLEN Length code as read, 1 byte > > COUNT Byte count of data to follow, 2 bytes. If zero, > > no data is contained in this sector. > > > > All sectors occurring on a side will be grouped together; > > however, they will appear in the same order as they occurred on > > the diskette. Therefore, if an 8 sector-per-track diskette were > > scanned which had a physical interleave of 2:1, the sectors might > > appear in the order 1,5,2,6,3,7,4,8 in the DOS dump file. > > > > After the last specified cylinder has been written to the DOS > > file, AnaDisk returns to the Main Menu. > > This is a good start. The header should include a byte that contains a > flag indicating the status of the sector (good, bad, etc). This seems rather "high level" if you are wanting to preserve the exact disk contents. Though it may be all you can do using a standard PC floppy controller. > What about odd formats? I take my experience from the Apple ][. You had > stuff like half-tracks and quarter-tracks (the head was stepped half-way > or half of half-way between tracks to store data), odd disk formats > (custom sector sizes, custom sector layouts, etc.), synchronization > between tracks (one copy protection scheme was to write a two tracks so > that if a seek was done from one track to the other, a specific sector > would be expected under the head as soon as it got to the next track). I would like to be proved wrong, but there is no way to account for every possible strange thing that could be done in terms of custom formats, copy-protection etc., at least in a high level file format that doesn't just sample the bits coming from the disk. It would be possible to construct a device for archiving disks at a very low level. I guess this would be similar to commercial floppy disk duplicators, except writing data to a file instead of another floppy. The bit stream from the disk would be sampled at a very high rate to allow for various tricks that could be done. Or by modifying a floppy drive, the analogue signal from the read head could be sampled. Tricks like "pulsing" the drive motor during a write to vary rotation rate, changing the data rate mid-write (e.g. 2us vs 4us per bit cell), changing precompensation values mid write, using custom non-MFM-or-GCR coding methods, reducing drive motor speed for some tracks (thus writing long tracks which cannot be duplicated on an unmodified drive/computer),... [Long tracks are a common form of copy-protection on Amiga games.] Such a low-level dump of raw data would at least preserve all (or almost all) information on the disk. Successfully writing an exact duplicate back to another floppy would depend on the capabilities of your disk controller. Still, such as image file could be easily supported by emulators. Also bad sectors would be preserved, meaning that recovery of most of the data from them would be possible. > The AnaDisk software doesn't seem to accomodate copy protected or > custom-format disks. The standard will have to address these disks as > well. You may know that Amiga computers have very flexible floppy controller hardware. There are several programs on the Amiga that are intended to image/archive disks at a low level. These read the raw bits from an entire track in one pass, and store that (from index to index, plus some). This is independent of the coding method used (MFM, GCR or whatever), and of course preserves sector order, distance between sectors etc. It should be possible to successfully archive almost any PC floppy disk that way, protected or not. I don't have many copy-protected PC floppies. Was any famously "evil" type of disk-based copy-protection used for PC software? I would quite like to try making a working backup of a disk like this. The Catweasel disk controller hardware (available as an ISA card for PCs) is capable of similar things. However due to its developer (stupidly IMO) refusing to release details on how to program it directly, this would be of no use; you're stuck with the provided drivers which are apparently pretty poor. -- Mark

26 years, 2 months

3
2
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Someone needs Dynalogic Hyperion info

by vcf＠siconic.com

Can anyone help this guy out? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 22:04:26 -0700 From: Leo Butzel <lbutzel(a)home.com> Subject: Updated e-mail address needed for Archives Hope I not repeating myself ! Looking for info on the Dynalogic Hyperion, a "portable" DOS machine manufactures around 1983. At least the one I have is 1983. it was designed and initially built in Ottawa, Canada. Hyperion was acquired in about 1983 by Bytec, who was later bought by I think a Quebec company called Comterm. Anyway, mine has stopped working: Hence I am looking for service info and/or persons who have worked on the machine. Thanks very much for any leads you might provide. Leo Butzel Seattle, WA lbutzel(a)home.com Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... Coming soon: VCF 4.0! VCF East: Planning in Progress See http://www.vintage.org for details!

26 years, 2 months

1
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Geeks and quality of life (was Re: A moment of silence...)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- sjm <sethm(a)loomcom.com> wrote: > I love the Bay Area. I was born in San Francisco, I really > consider this place home despite my family roots in New England > (which is just too hot in the summer, and too cold in the winter)... > > Or, I can afford a four bedroom home in the nicest suburb of > Columbus, Ohio. (Yes, I realise Columbus Ohio fails my weather test. > Otherwise, I'd be there :) What ever made you pick Columbus as your touchstone? If you prefer Bay Area weather, I guarantee that it fails your weather test, but, yes, the housing prices are quite moderate (with salaries to match ;-) On the plus side, a nice house in one of the very desirable sections of town goes from $225K to $350K, new houses in a modest neighborhood are more like $160K to $180K, and in my neighborhood (near Ohio State University, so city schools for those folks that care), it's closer to $110K to $150K for a 50-70 year-old two-to-three bedroom house. On my mother's street (three blocks from OSU), the houses are 4-bedroom brick, pre-WWI, and run around $125K. It's a huge range, depending on where you want to live, how long you want it to take to get to work (since the geek jobs are concentrated on the NW side of the city, in and near Dublin (think "Memorial Tournament")). I drive 12.5 miles to get to work only because I take surface streets and avoid the freeway which is under massive construction all around the part of town that has a high concentration of tech jobs. Now... the other side of the coin: the coin. My experience around here is that a 10+ year UNIX administrator can get between $50K - $100K, depending on salary vs. contract, size of employer, quality of negotiating skills, etc. NT and Novell admins get about 75%-80% of that. Programmers can get anywhere >from $40K - $100K, depending on the esoteric nature of the work, project based vs product based, language, etc. I do not know any geeks personally in this market who I know to be making a bunch over $100K, but I do know a lot of people earning between $50K and $75K. I used to say that I would never personally take a Bay Area job for less than $125K/year. I would be lowering my standard of living. Given the nature of the housing market there, I might have to revise my number. I don't think I want to try to buy a $600K+ house. This is not meant as an advertisement for Columbus. It's some numbers to put the California experience into some perspective. I wouldn't mind visiting, but I wouldn't want to live there. I'm sure Hans and other Europeans here will have some interesting comments on the difference bewteen housing and energy costs between the two continents. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd(a)iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/

26 years, 2 months

1
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Get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? [Was: Re: Notes on repairing the Apple Lisa power supply]

by mgregory＠vantageresearch.com

-----Original Message----- From: R. D. Davis <rdd(a)smart.net> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Thursday, May 25, 2000 3:02 PM Subject: Re: Notes on repairing the Apple Lisa power supply <snip> >Hmmm... have you considered computer preservation as a hobby instead >of computer demolition? > <snip> > >Shouldn't you have tried to find that out before swapping things >around without knowing what you were doing? > >-- >R. D. Davis >rdd(a)perqlogic.com >http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd >410-744-4900 > On the whole, your reply seemed remarkably snotty and unhelpful, and didn't add much useful information to help solve the problem. And for relatively common computers, component swapping is a perfectly valid way of isolating a fault quickly. Let's assume the worst case: he had fried his other Lisa. Would that have been a tragic loss to history? There are hundreds (thousands?) of other preserved Lisas out there. Even with blown components, he could still have sold them for hundreds "as-is" on eBay, where they would provide parts to revive other Lisas. Not every classic computer should be treated like a priceless antique. Get some perspective. Just my 2 cents. Mark.

26 years, 2 months

8
16
0 0

ASCII art

by mranalog＠home.com

"McFadden, Mike" <mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu> wrote: > Example: > picture value array 1 array2 array3 > 0 space space space > 1 period space space > 2 colon space space > 3 plus space space > . > . > . > 9 0 W M A couple of years ago, after reading the chapter on ASCII art in "The New RTTY Handbook", I wrote a quick and dirty program to to convert .BMP files into non-overstrike ASCII pictures I could send in emails. From the book, I created my levels of "gray" in 8 levels with this character array: M H I : " , . [SP] (from dark to light) I'm curious as to the rest of the characters in your arrays. Do you remember which characters you used? --Doug ==================================================== Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com (work) Sr. Software Eng. mranalog(a)home.com (home) Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com Sunnyvale,CA Curator Analog Computer Museum and History Center http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog ====================================================

26 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

VAX emulator

by mrbill＠mrbill.net

Check out www.charon-vax.com. Interesting - software VAX emulator for Windows NT / 2000. Bill -- +--------------------+-------------------+ | Bill Bradford | Austin, Texas | +--------------------+-------------------+ | mrbill(a)sunhelp.org | mrbill(a)mrbill.net | +--------------------+-------------------+

26 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Q-to-U translations

by danburrows＠mindspring.com

If you can't find anything by next weekend contact me off list. I have a couple Qniverters at home with the docs. I can't recall the # offhand but I know they were used from a Qbus host to Unibus backplane. Dan -----Original Message----- From: Nick Oliviero <oliv555(a)arrl.net> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Sunday, May 28, 2000 9:24 PM Subject: Q-to-U translations >Anyone on list familiar with the various Qbus/Unibus convertors >that can help with this problem? Actually two, I'm trying to connect >one Unibus expansion chassis to a Qbus host, PDP11/83. I've >another Unibus chassis which I'd like to mate with a mVAX4100. > >I have the DEC M8217 and Able 10340 convertors but have not >been able to find any documentation on either. Would either of >these work or do I require a different product. I know Able made >at least 4 of these variants. Able has not been very helpful in the >past, >general response going something like ...... we have a manual >that may answer your question, its only $100.......... > >It just occured to me, I think the Able boards were meant to be >plugged to the Qbus side, my situation requires a Unibus board, >at least in the case of the 4100 project. > >Also, my 4100 manual completely glosses over its Qbus capability. >Anyone know the p/n and or pinouts for the 4100 Qbus cable? > >Thanks in advance for any suggestions > > Nick

26 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

VAX-11? and some C64 stuff

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On May 28, John Rollins wrote: > What fun! I got a book called "VAX-11 Assembly Language Programming." > What's a VAX-11? The first few VAXen were the VAX-11 family. The first was the VAX-11/780, then (in no particular order) the VAX-11/750, the /730, /725, /782, and /785. Of course I'm assuming you know what a VAX is in the more generic sense... -Dave McGuire

26 years, 2 months

3
2
0 0

OS/2

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>It's the APPS and the moving Win32s target they tried to support. >The killer was when MS made Office not run under OS/2. May have hurt the market but, no great loss. MS Office is another plague on the world. >OS/2 was slow -- glacial on the early 386's without a LOT of memory >16meg was VERY rare then). IBM used it internally (v2.11) on PS/2 25's >with 12-16mb. It was slow loading and glacial loading apps. Many >secretaries booted it with all their windows apps loaded so they didn't >have to wait for programs to load. They often ran Ami Pro v3.1 under win3.1 >since the Lotus Smartsuite was BEHIND the windows version for features. As a Win3.1 user it was no better on 386s and really didn't run usefully with less than 4mb and really wanted 8mb to behave well. >I'd bet they're switching to WinNT or Win9x (laptops) and going to >Microsoft Word for customer compatibility in a lot of cases. We were Win9x is a mess but can be made to work, WinNT4/workstation is better but you MUST be at SP4 or higher. It's the MS apps that are a pox on the world. ;-) Allison

26 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Q-to-U translations

by oliv555＠arrl.net

Anyone on list familiar with the various Qbus/Unibus convertors that can help with this problem? Actually two, I'm trying to connect one Unibus expansion chassis to a Qbus host, PDP11/83. I've another Unibus chassis which I'd like to mate with a mVAX4100. I have the DEC M8217 and Able 10340 convertors but have not been able to find any documentation on either. Would either of these work or do I require a different product. I know Able made at least 4 of these variants. Able has not been very helpful in the past, general response going something like ...... we have a manual that may answer your question, its only $100.......... It just occured to me, I think the Able boards were meant to be plugged to the Qbus side, my situation requires a Unibus board, at least in the case of the 4100 project. Also, my 4100 manual completely glosses over its Qbus capability. Anyone know the p/n and or pinouts for the 4100 Qbus cable? Thanks in advance for any suggestions Nick

26 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Sun type 4 & 5 keyboards FS in UK

by mark_k＠iname.com

Hi, I have several Sun Type 4 and Type 5 keyboards. Since I don't currently have any Sun hardware to test these with, I cannot say for sure whether they work. However they are in good physical condition, and I'll give a refund if they are DOA. Is 5 pounds each too much to ask for this sort of thing? -- Mark

26 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

OS/2

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 5/26/00 11:26:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, allisonp(a)world.std.com writes: > As I happen to have an IBM OS/2 warp V3 kit with bonus pak it makes me > want to play again with it. I did in the last outing try installing it and > it went well > but I found the interface feeling a bit strange. It sounds like it has > attributes > that would make it ideal for smaller 486s and any 386s with enough ram > but unlike some that want Multimedia I'd want IP (eithernet) networking. i love os/2's WPS! if i could find a os/2 type shell for linux, i'd switch in a minute. if you want networking, go get warp connect. i've been told that it's been tweaked a little after warp 3.0 came out. i have it running on a PS/2 server 95 with 48meg with scsi and i get full multimedia and can connect to my isp and my other machines. if DSL ever gets around here, i will use it to host my site. DB Young Team OS/2 hurry, hurry, step right up! see the computers you used as a kid! http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm

26 years, 2 months

4
3
0 0

DIGITAL question.

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

John Wilson wrote: >Aren't there two different DEC logos anyway? A few years ago when they >decided it should be magenta and the colors should be fixed regardless of >what the logo is printed on top of, I thought they claimed that they were >slightly reshaping the characters too. I can't see the difference but >that doesn't mean it's not there... Or am I remembering wrong? I don't think there ever was "a font". I'm pretty sure they just drew the letters they needed, and in some cases they don't even match on the same nameplate. Most of the simple characters are purely line segments and constant-radius arcs, there are obviously some exceptions (the letter "a" in the "|d|i|g|i|t|a|l|", for example, in one font.) You can actually see *three* different - but similar - logo fonts in use on some manuals and equipment. For instance, the purple-and-magenta PDP-11 nameplates (the kind that go on top of a H960, for instance) have the top "|d|i|g|i|t|a|l|" in a fairly traditional (but a bit simplistic) Helvetica-ish font, while the bottom "digital equipment corporation, maynard, massachussets" is in a font that's more like hand printing, with some quirky lilts (like the way the top part of the "e" extends way to the right.) Then the font used for "decsystem" or "pdp11" is yet a third variation if it appears on the logo plate. The numerals are done in a particularly funky manner. My conclusion is that they just had a draftsman draw the letters as needed, without any real font steering committee :-). -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

26 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

PCDOS 2000

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 5/25/00 5:03:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wilson(a)dbit.dbit.com writes: > On Thu, May 25, 2000 at 03:56:22PM -0400, Bill Pechter wrote: > > And DEC unloads the PDP11 to Mentec and OS/2 gets killed. > > Last I heard OS/2 was still very much alive, although IBM's attitude > towards it is surly to say the least. But unlike some companies I could > mention, IBM knows better than to refuse to accept money from their > customers > just because the customers want to buy something other than whatever new > toy the IBM management is excited about this week. So it will probably > keep getting *some* support as long as the customers are willing to pay > for it. > > John Wilson > D Bit there will be an OS2 version update later this year (4.5?) which will offer usb support amongst other things. recently fixpak 13 was announced. of course, downloading it all and installing it is a major task in itself. DB Young ICQ: 29427634 hurry, hurry, step right up! see the computers you used as a kid! http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm

26 years, 2 months

8
13
0 0

DIGITAL question.

by sethm＠loomcom.com

I've got a strange question for former DIGITAL employees out there. It's not likely anyone will be able to answer, but it never hurts to ask. Does anyone know what font was used for the DIGITAL logo? I've never been able to find its exact match, and I'm wondering if anyone had any contact with the Corporate Identity people and might remember. (Kind of a long shot, I know) Thanks, -Seth -- "As a general rule, the man in the habit of murdering | Seth Morabito bookbinders, though he performs a distinct service | sethm(a)loomcom.com to society, only wastes his own time and takes no | personal advantage." -- Kenneth Grahame (1898) | Perth ==> *

26 years, 2 months

5
4
0 0

When new advertising meets old computers

by dpeschel＠eskimo.com

Target put a multipage color catalog in last Sunday's paper. The catalog combines full-page photos of people using outdoor toys (bicycles, snorkels, tents, etc.) with photos of the toys against garish solid-color backgrounds. Although the effect is rather unsettling (Life magazine meets Wired?) the strangest part is the image of *six-hole paper tape* that marches across the middles of all the pages. Obviously old computers have some sort of hold on our culture, though it could just be as an abstract design cliche. I haven't yet decoded the tape (if it says anyhthing at all). Luckily I just got _Computers and Typesetting_ which covers plenty of obscure typesetting codes (which is the only area I know of in which six-hole tape ever became popular). For non-US people: Target is a large "buy everything here" store, fancier than K Mart or Wal-Mart but still rather cheap. My mom sarcastically called it "Tar-ZHAY", as in the French pronounciation, for a while. :) -- Derek

26 years, 2 months

2
6
0 0

VAXStations Available - Update

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

This is an update to my earlier post regarding the availability of VAXStation 4000 VLC's. It is being posted to both CLASSICCMP and port-vax(a)netbsd.org. The interest in these beasties has been strong, and I had some inquiries as to further details about the unit's innards and specs. With that in mind, here's what I've gotten so far. They are indeed VLC's. Actual model number: VS48K-CA Quantity available: 20. Each unit includes an LK401 keyboard and DEC three-button mouse (not the 'Hockey Puck' style... looks more like a rebadged Logitech). (Also available: One ea. VAXStation 4000/90, condition (like the others): Uknown, pulled from working setup). Installed memory: At least 24 MB. These units appear to use standard 72-pin FPM Parity SIMMs. Video subsystem: Difficult for me to tell. The video board has a bank of 16 each Toshiba part #TC524258BZ-10 memory chips installed. I -think- this means there's 4MB of video memory... someone check me on that, please? 1MB per bank of four chips? Anyway... more details on the video. The board has a 130.808 MHz oscillator, and sports the Bt RAMDAC and chip set. This could be good, bad, or indifferent... I don't know enough about such things to say. Chip numbers are Bt458LPJ135 for the RAMDAC, and Bt438K for the other chip. There do not appear to be any hard drives in any of the units, though I could be mistaken (I didn't examine them all). It does appear that the hard drive mounting brackets were left in, so putting a drive in the thing would not be a huge hassle. Price: $50.00 or best offer per unit plus shipping. Local pickup also available. Contact: Mark Dabek, RE-PC, Tukwila, WA. Phone is 206-575- 8737. Hours are Monday-Saturday, 10:00 - 19:00 Pacific time. Web is www.repc.com. Please tell him I referred you if you go and buy one or more. He likes to know where his business comes from. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner/Head Honcho, Blue Feather Technologies (www.bluefeathertech.com) kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com "SCSI Users, Unite! Beware the IDEs of March!"

26 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

The "Bigger Picture"

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

I've already asked ... heck, told... Sellam that I don't want to continue the thread regarding what happened to Haltek. That still holds true. What I would like to add here, now that I've cooled down a bit, is some background on why I reacted as I did. I see the whole Bay Area mess -- skyrocketing housing prices, demand outpacing supply, etc. -- as only one symptom of a much larger pattern of badly distorted values and priorities that, to my eyes, has been developing at least since the mid-80's. That pattern is one of a culture that has, in large part, come to value money above all else. Above family, above skills, above the ability to create something that's truly an innovation (and I do NOT mean web-enabled refrigerators!), and above the ability to take something old, but still usable, and give it new life. Don't get me wrong: I'm not in any way against making a comfortable living, nor am I against a business making a fair profit. That would be as silly as expecting honest behavior out of White House politicians. What I do have a problem with is the pattern I see is "make as much money as you can in as short a time as you can, and to blazes with whoever you might screw, or what you might do to the long-term picture for the planet along the way, because money is the ONLY important thing!" That kind of thinking is as destructive, in the long term, to this world and everyone on it as a nuclear blast would be in the short term. I do not agree with such a warped philosophy. I do not subscribe to it. I will fight it in any way that I can, anywhere I can, in this world or wherever I end up in when my number comes up. I currently do so in many different ways, one of which is by preserving and using older technology that might otherwise serve to choke a landfill even higher than it already is. I think a lot of the list's members are the same way. Every surplus dealer that goes under represents, to my eyes, that much more possible content in the landfills, that much less of an opportunity for a budding hobbyist to learn what real "hacking" is, and that much more of a win for a the mindset of "Plug-and-Play- and-ThrowItAway" rather than doing a 'Quality Job.' Given the above, is it any wonder that I got ticked off when I learned of Haltek's demise, and (more specifically) how they'd come to an end? If Sellam, or anyone else on the list, wants to judge me as short-sighted, or lacking "perspective" because of these beliefs, then I can only say "Guilty as charged, and thanks for sharing your opinion." I'm not out to offend anyone, and I'm certainly not crazy enough to think that everyone is going to agree with me. That would be really dumb. All I was trying to do was express my disgust that a place I considered as a valued resource had been, in my view, unfairly forced out of business. If that did offend anyone, I apologize. Whatever the case, I think I will keep "death notices," as it were, on my web site instead of in the group. Thanks for reading. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner/Head Honcho, Blue Feather Technologies (www.bluefeathertech.com) kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com "SCSI Users, Unite! Beware the IDEs of March!"

26 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

OS/2

by allisonp＠world.std.com

From: SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com <SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com> >a minute. if you want networking, go get warp connect. i've been told that >it's been tweaked a little after warp 3.0 came out. i have it running on a Where would I find that? I'm not warp savy, barely PC savy. >PS/2 server 95 with 48meg with scsi and i get full multimedia and can connect Hummm... How would that run on a 386sx/16 with 5mb? If not that a 486dx2/66 with 12mb. Allison

26 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Apple DiskCopy 4.2 disk image format?

by eric＠brouhaha.com

Does anyone have (or know where to find) the specs for the Apple DiskCopy 4.2 disk image format? I know the specs were published (unlike the new Apple Disk Copy 6.x NDIF format), but searches with Altavista, Google, and Ask didn't turn them up. I have some raw disk images of 720K and 1440K diskettes on my web site, and I want to write a Linux program to take a raw image and turn it into an ADC4.2 image, so people with Macs can more easily deal with them. Eric

26 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

OS/2

by stevemas＠persys.com

Close, but not quite correct. GPF is a general protection fault, the most common problem is a bad or uninitialized pointer. What makes a DLL get loaded, or paged in, is a page fault. Its the same mechanism that causes a swapped out page to be swapped back in on a 4K boundary. At 02:56 PM 5/26/00 -0400, you wrote: > > Don't forget that OS/2 was written by Gordon Letwin > > AT MICROSOFT! > > > > > > You might enjoy reading "Inside OS/2" by Gordon Letwin; from Microsoft > > Press. > >While I agree OS/2 is a better operating system than Windows, this >book depressed me due to Gordon's wrongheaded-belief that a GPF >should always be considered an indicator of a programming problem. > >Since Intel didn't give us a pointer fault, the GPF is the only >proper way to implement dynamic linking. As they shipped, OS/2 >from version 1.0 to 1.2 never did properly implement dynamic linking; >and Windows inherits the wrong way from OS/2. > >Strangely, Ed Iacobucci (who was Gordon Letwin's counterpart at IBM) >wrote an article that appeared in a magazine that described OS/2's >dynamic linking as operating the way it should. > >The key difference is this: in real dynamic linking, CALL instructions >that are supposed to invoke procedures in a DLL are constructed in the >executable image such that when the processor executes the CALL, it >causes a GPF [pointer fault]; then the GPF handler looks at the faulting >instruction. If the pointer is a faulted pointer to a routine in a DLL, >then snap the link [map the DLL into memory and then modify the faulting >instruction to point to the entry point of the routine as described in >the DLL's export table], and restart the instruction. Otherwise, it's a bug >and you signal a condition which somehere generates an error message. >In this scenario, programs start up much faster because the OS is not >reading and linking every routine in the executable's import table. If >you never use feature <X> in the program, and if feature <X> resides >tottally in a separate DLL, then that DLL never gets mapped into RAM. >MUCH, MUCH better execution, more robust operation, in particular, the >machine wouldn't thrash at startup dur to all those programs in your >startup folder. > >Due to Ed's article, I always assumed that there was a turf was between >IBM and Microsoft on this and other salient technical points. MS won >and was wrong. > >So, having said that, you might see why I'm not a big fan of Letwin's. > >Shew! Glad I got _that_ off my chest again. > >respectfully submitted, >-doug quebbeman - Steve Mastrianni

26 years, 2 months

3
6
0 0

Bootable Floppy from CD?

by cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com

In an effort to preserve all my miscellaneous driver floppies I've been copying them to CD-rom. I figured I should also do this for my DOS 6.3 disks but realized that I don't know how to create a bootable DOS 6.3 system disk from the disk itself. I've considered using dd(1) on unix to create just the disk image that I can later use dd to copy back out but was wondering if perhaps there was a better way. --Chuck

26 years, 2 months

11
19
0 0

A moment of silence...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>Yes, seems more and more people here have been watching "Wall Street" (the >movie and the real thing) and embracing Sam Geckoe's motto, "Greed . . . is >good." Seems to be the way of the new millenium, starting with the gas >pumps. Nah, the move was a late comer, the gas gag was done 28 years ago and then pulled out every 12-15 for another try. They get away with it every time. Allison

26 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Notes on repairing the Apple Lisa power supply

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

I have a Lisa 2/5 that doesn't want to work. Here's some things that I've found out in the process of troubleshooting it. (1) The PS in the 2/5 and the 2/10 are interchangeable but the 2/5 PS has a lower capacity. (2/10 and the Mac XL hardware are the same). (2) The card cage must be installed in a before the PS will turn on but the memory and I/O cards need not be installed. (3) The CPU does not have to be installed for the PS to work but if it's not installed the PS will keep resetting and will make a chirping sound. (4) The card cages for the 2/5 and 2/10 have different brackets and don't appear to be interchangeable. (5) An I/O card from a 2/10 will work in a 2/5, at least properly enough to power it on and get a display. >(6) A "bad" I/O card in a 2/5 will prevent the PS from turning on and will cause the PS to appear defective.< (see note 2!) My 2/5 will not power on. I installed a known good PS from a 2/10 and it still doesn't work. The 2/5 PS DOES work in the 2/10 so it is good. The 2/5 will power up with an I/O board from a 2/10 or with no I/O board installed so the problem appears to be in the I/O board. The battery condition seems to not matter. Does anyone have a schematic of the interlocks and interconnects for the Lisa 2/5 or know what signals the power supply gets from the I/O board? Joe

26 years, 2 months

5
9
0 0

OS/2

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>OS/2 was modified at 2.0 to include a flat memory model. Apps and DLLs went >to 32-bit flat model code. Legacy apps got their APIs thunked to 32-bits. >It was also possible to use legacy DLLs from 32-bit apps, which got their >APIs thunked 32 to 16 and back. Some called it a hack, for IBM it was a way >to get legacy 1.x apps to run in 2.x. Older DOS and Win apps were run the >V86 mode, each with their own 1MB sandbox. > >Of course none of that matters now. 8-) As I happen to have an IBM OS/2 warp V3 kit with bonus pak it makes me want to play again with it. I did in the last outing try installing it and it went well but I found the interface feeling a bit strange. It sounds like it has attributes that would make it ideal for smaller 486s and any 386s with enough ram but unlike some that want Multimedia I'd want IP (eithernet) networking. Allison

26 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

EQUIPMENT ALERT: MultiBus goodies & VAXen!

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

CC'd to Port-VAX and Classiccmp... Hi, folks, The local (Seattle) used computer place I work with on occasion has turned up a whole stack of DEC VAXStation 4000's (desktop/'pizza box' configuration). I think these are the VLC model. Very little is known about them, though I also saw a whole pile of in-the-box LK401 keyboards with them. I'm pretty sure the owner of the place would let 'em go pretty cheap, especially since they're mainly a PC store. If there's any interest in these, let me know and I'll go over one or more in detail. Now, on the MultiBus front: The Seattle store has turned up a MultiBus computer that's full of boards, and at least one tape drive. It's in a rack chassis, pretty light for its size, and has a whole slew of serial ports (9-pinners) on the backside. It also has an SMD disk controller, and what appears to be a SCSI adapter (at least it's tied to a SCSI/QIC-xx bridge board to run the cartridge tape drive). Again, if there's any interest, let me know (and please include any offers -- don't be shy!) and I'll see what I can do to rescue the beastie. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner/Head Honcho, Blue Feather Technologies (www.bluefeathertech.com) kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com "SCSI Users, Unite! Beware the IDEs of March!"

26 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

OS/2

by allain＠panix.com

My neatest memory regarding OS/2 is of seeing a demonstration on 'Computer Chronicles' all the way back in 1987-88. It was more than a decent, polished demo of multitasking and enterprise apps. The wild thing about it was that the point man seen on the air was Lee Reiswig himself, who I found out later was at the executive level. If you watched Computer Chronicles very much you knew that unless it was a 10-50 man company the demonstrator was always a tech or sales guy. For IBM to send a VP, and for the Demo to have worked as well as it did really made it stand out in the context of that show. Lee got my respect for being more than just a title for that. (A little like, but better, watching Alex Trotman change oil on Michael Moore's 'TV Nation') John A.

26 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Notes on repairing the Apple Lisa power supply

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

At 09:26 AM 5/26/00 -0400, you wrote: >> FWIW I usually use an old disk drive. It's very handy since many >> computers already have a power connector that will plug >> directly onto the >> drive and it provides a load to both the +12 and +5 volt >> power supplies. >> > >Joe, > >Aren't you afraid of damaging the disk drive by doing that? Just kidding... >;-) That's why I only use DEC drives! Just kidding :-) Joe

26 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

CT Miniframe

by rdd＠smart.net

Greetings, Are there still users on this list who've used a CT Miniframe running CTIX and have experience installing the OS from tapes? -- R. D. Davis rdd(a)perqlogic.com http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd 410-744-4900

26 years, 2 months

2
1
0 0

Prime Parts: was "Documenting how old computers..."

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

I've got a small Pr1me buried somewhere in my garage. I'm not prositive but, I *think* it's a 2550. It's a complete system but, it has a bad CPU. That being the case, I'll make any of the parts available for anyone that's looking to resurrect one. Let me know exactly what parts you need and I'll see if I have them. I'm really not too familiar with that hardware so, you'll have be *real* specific about the parts you need. I also have a bunch of Pr1me DOCs (many still in the shrink wrap) if someone needs them. I'd like to get a token fee for the parts and of course you'd have to pay shipping from South Florida. Later, Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas Quebbeman [mailto:dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com] > Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 3:23 PM > To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: Documenting how old computers were used > > > I'm working on some sources for spares; but I'm not even sure > what I'll find in the machine. The owner had a stroke around > Christmas, and some things are returning more slowly than others. > > But I'll definitely be needed either a 7110 or 7210 SCSI controller > and an LHC300 ethernet controller. > > So, what's a Xyplex? > > -doug q >

26 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Unix TERMCAP contains interesting historyical tidbits

by foo＠siconic.com

I was going through the Unix TERMCAP on this Linux box I'm setting up and noticed that it contains quite a few tidbits about classic computers in there. It actually has some useful info for research. There is even a section describing the dip switches on the Heathkit H19 terminal. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... Coming soon: VCF 4.0! VCF East: Planning in Progress See http://www.vintage.org for details!

26 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Documenting how old computers were used

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > Any other Pr1me fans hanging out here??? > > Yep. I'm the proud keeper of a 2550 with assorted spares, > media and boxloads of manuals. I purchased this machine > from John, who in turn had purchased it from the original > owner, who in turn has been helpful in bringing it back > to life. > > The plan remains to make this thing available on the Net > via the xyplex I've got sitting here, but I need to re-rack > it first -- it's original rack was lost somewhere along the > way and it's present rack doesn't provide adequate > airflow :-( Yeah, you're the guy I was thinking of when I was talking to someone else (I asked him if he was the guy from Maine, but he's down in Tennessee). I'm working on some sources for spares; but I'm not even sure what I'll find in the machine. The owner had a stroke around Christmas, and some things are returning more slowly than others. But I'll definitely be needed either a 7110 or 7210 SCSI controller and an LHC300 ethernet controller. So, what's a Xyplex? -doug q

26 years, 2 months

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OS/2

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> Don't forget that OS/2 was written by Gordon Letwin > AT MICROSOFT! > > > You might enjoy reading "Inside OS/2" by Gordon Letwin; from Microsoft > Press. While I agree OS/2 is a better operating system than Windows, this book depressed me due to Gordon's wrongheaded-belief that a GPF should always be considered an indicator of a programming problem. Since Intel didn't give us a pointer fault, the GPF is the only proper way to implement dynamic linking. As they shipped, OS/2 >from version 1.0 to 1.2 never did properly implement dynamic linking; and Windows inherits the wrong way from OS/2. Strangely, Ed Iacobucci (who was Gordon Letwin's counterpart at IBM) wrote an article that appeared in a magazine that described OS/2's dynamic linking as operating the way it should. The key difference is this: in real dynamic linking, CALL instructions that are supposed to invoke procedures in a DLL are constructed in the executable image such that when the processor executes the CALL, it causes a GPF [pointer fault]; then the GPF handler looks at the faulting instruction. If the pointer is a faulted pointer to a routine in a DLL, then snap the link [map the DLL into memory and then modify the faulting instruction to point to the entry point of the routine as described in the DLL's export table], and restart the instruction. Otherwise, it's a bug and you signal a condition which somehere generates an error message. In this scenario, programs start up much faster because the OS is not reading and linking every routine in the executable's import table. If you never use feature <X> in the program, and if feature <X> resides tottally in a separate DLL, then that DLL never gets mapped into RAM. MUCH, MUCH better execution, more robust operation, in particular, the machine wouldn't thrash at startup dur to all those programs in your startup folder. Due to Ed's article, I always assumed that there was a turf was between IBM and Microsoft on this and other salient technical points. MS won and was wrong. So, having said that, you might see why I'm not a big fan of Letwin's. Shew! Glad I got _that_ off my chest again. respectfully submitted, -doug quebbeman

26 years, 2 months

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Paper tape format

by RCini＠congressfinancial.com

>From the "just out of curiosity" department... What is the punch format used for a paper tape that would be used on an Altair or IMSAI? Is it straight binary or something like the Intel Hex format? The reason why I'm asking is because I'm toying with adding a virtual paper tape punch/reader to Claus Guiloi's IMSAI emulator. Rich

26 years, 2 months

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OS/2

by bwit＠pobox.com

At 10:41 AM 5/26/00 -0700, you wrote: >Don't forget that OS/2 was written by Gordon Letwin >AT MICROSOFT! > > >You might enjoy reading "Inside OS/2" by Gordon Letwin; from Microsoft >Press. > I had always thought this was a really good read. I still have a couple of copies laying around somewhere. Long ago while working a bug in HPFS I got to work with Gordon over the phone. Sometimes I really miss the old days. I'll have to go home and dig out my "Microsoft OS/2" coffee mug :-) Bob

26 years, 2 months

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Strange box

by mranalog＠home.com

************** I'm sending this again because my first attempt went to classiccmp-classiccmp-org(a)jade.tseinc.com and was rejected. If you are receiving a second copy of this,ignore it. ************** Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net> wrote: > I found this in a pile of surplus computers yesterday. Can anyone tell > me what it is? It looks like an ordinary external 5 1/4" drive box but on > the back of the box it has a DB-25M connector marked "MODEM/CPU" and a > DB-25F connector marked "TERMINAL". There's also a rotary switch labeled > "RATE" with positions marked "10", "30", "120", "240", "480", 960" and > "EXT". Then there's a toggle switch with positions marked "BIN CTRL ON" > "ODD" and "EVEN". And another toggle switch with positons marked "FULL" and > "HALF". It has a socket for a standard AC line cord. It's made by Techtran > Industries of Rochester, N.Y. and it's a model 950A. My guess is that it's > a disk drive that's made to go between a terminal and it's MODEM or > computer but I've never heard of one before. If that's what it is, then > how do you give it coomands? Joe, I don't think this is one of those file-system/data logger type drives,I have one of those and it has a keypad on the front of the drive you use to open a disk file before dumping serial data to it and to close the file when you're done. Instead, I think you have a CP/M computer. It sounds alot like my PMC 101 "MicroMate". http://www.best.com/~dcoward/ebay/micromat.jpg The MicroMate is about the same size as and looks like a TRS-80 Model 1 disk drive. On the back it has DB-25s for "Terminal" and "Modem". It weights only 10 pounds but when you open the case there is a DSDD 400K floppy drive, a power supply and a board that runs the length of the case, which is a 128K 4Mhz Z80A based CP/M computer. If this is the "case" - you'll need a boot disk. What is inside this box of yours? --Doug ==================================================== Doug Coward dcoward(a)pressstart.com (work) Sr. Software Eng. mranalog(a)home.com (home) Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com Sunnyvale,CA Curator Analog Computer Museum and History Center http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog ====================================================

26 years, 2 months

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OS/2

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

Irregardless, IBM paid Microsoft to develop OS/2... there's even a real MS-branded OS/2, but they sold it for less than a year, so its a bit less than common... amusingly, LAN Manager REQUIRES OS/2 to run, and MS kept selling LAN Manager for a good amount of time after they canned OS/2... Almost everyone under the sun had their own little branded LAN Manager version once, such as 3Com, DEC, IBM, etc. Will J ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

26 years, 2 months

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Items for trade

by rdd＠smart.net

Is anyone interested in trading a pair of what appear to be two 256K Unibus memory boards, made by National Semiconductor Memory Systems (these boards have four rows of thirty-two 4164-15 ICs on them), for two of the following: - DEUNA for a PDP-11 - RS232 interface for a PDP-8/e - TK50 Q-bus controller - some other board I don't have and can use - or... will trade both memory boards for one Q-bus 32-bit SCSI interface. Other things available: Emulex Performance 4000 terminal server; has a short in it somewhere. Either fix it and get a working server, or, turn it back in to Emulex and for just a couple of hundred bucks, get a reconditioned working server! (this was the case the last time I contacted Emulex) Make me an offer. Sun Field Engineers Handbooks: like new condition for the newer (not very newest) SPARC machines... these don't go back to the older Sun 4 and Sun 3 systems, which I need the handbooks for. Some sort of ethernet board for a QMS printer, marked as: QMS DTRBD, ETHRNT, 16BIT, CROWN, 2293117. The box it came in has "Appletalk for QMS860" written on it, but documentation in the box says "QMS UNIX Host Software." The following I'd prefer to trade locally (Baltimore area): An IBM 4701-1 bank branch controller system; comes with three small Geac terminals (sans keyboards!) and some other sort of interface units, cables, etc. Interesting looking toy for those into IBM stuff, and includes documentation (a book inside the cabinet!). I'll bet that with some hacking, this could be made into some sort of dedicated controller of some sort for an application not requiring much CPU speed or memory. Fascinating looking bus, boards, etc. Contains an 8" floppy drive. Things I'm looking for: - anything DEC-related (could use a cabinet tell enough to put an 11/44 CPU and four RL02 drives in) - PDP-8/e boards (esp. hard drive or RS232 interface) and an additional backplane - ULTRIX 4.2 installation media to replace the now missing /usr directory on my Decstation - OS for a MIPS Magnum 3000 on a cartridge tape, as well as any documentation for this system - Data General system running 16-bit AOS/VS, preferable something small like an MV-2,000/4,000 (I want to see "Nothing happens." in response to XYZZY, not "Twice as much happens.") -- R. D. Davis rdd(a)perqlogic.com http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd 410-744-4900

26 years, 2 months

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Get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? [Was: Re: Notes on repairing the Apple Lisa power supply]

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

Heh, I've been considering turning this 8650 hulk I know of into a VAXshelf... It'd be a great bookshelf for my gray wall ;p FYI, before the flames start, the cpu boards are 1) not in the machine, and 2) broken. I know this cuz I dug them out of a nasty container of junk at the scrap yard :( But at least the 8650 wouldn't take much juice to run, at least not compared to my 4381... Takes much less sans power supplies though! Will J ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

26 years, 2 months

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OFF TOPIC: Cool Hack

by jpl15＠netcom.com

I might as well slither onto the OT Bandwagon... I submitted a design some years back (which was shelved... snif snif) for an array of LEDs to be affixed to the blades of a typical ceiling fan. These would get thier power and signals from induction coils on the frame of said fan, and would provide kewl displays as the fan turned (in the dark especially). I made a single-array prototype... it worked fine. The company just didn't market it... o well. ON TOPIC: I also went to VCFE (I guess Sellam forgot that part... ) and took several dozen pictures. I am uploading them to Hans Franke, and he will put them on the Website for public viewing. Kudos and Hats Off to Hans, Sellam, Phillip Belben, John Zabolitski, and all the others who worked thier _____es off to make it a success. Cheers John

26 years, 2 months

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Digital Millennium Copyright Act - what does it mean for us?

by RCini＠congressfinancial.com

No ethical dilema here! I don't feel bad about posting this stuff at all because (1) the equipment isn't being sold any more, (2) the docs have been left to rot by the original owner and (3) the docs are too valuable to the vintage computing community to not make them available. I just think that some of the free-wheeling underpinnings of the Internet were taken out back and shot and buried in the end zone next to Hoffa. Rich -----Original Message----- From: Vintage Computer GAWD! [mailto:foo@siconic.com] Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 1:29 PM To: 'ClassCompList' Subject: Re: Digital Millennium Copyright Act - what does it mean for us? On Thu, 11 May 2000, Cini, Richard wrote: > How do we protect ourselves? My plan, frankly, is to continue with > my efforts until someone tells me to stop. I say tally ho old chap. That's probably the best course of action. Just post the material to at least make it useful until which time you are explicitly told by the copyright holder to remove it. The worst they can do is ask you to remove it (cease and desist). Might as well keep this stuff alive as long as there is a need for it and as long as the original copyright holder has no plans for it. As long as the original copyright holder is no longer marketing it and it's not being sold for a profit then I don't see an ethical dilemma. Sellam

26 years, 2 months

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Notes on repairing the Apple Lisa power supply

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

> FWIW I usually use an old disk drive. It's very handy since many > computers already have a power connector that will plug > directly onto the > drive and it provides a load to both the +12 and +5 volt > power supplies. > Joe, Aren't you afraid of damaging the disk drive by doing that? Just kidding... ;-) Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years, 2 months

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Get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? [Was: Re: N otes on repa...

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

> Anyone who reads this list on even a semi-regular basis knows > that Mr. Rigdon > is well aware of what a short is. Why the put-down? Do you > think that you > are conducting a high-school electric shop class and talking > to a bunch of > eighth-graders? > Personally, I have never received anything from Joe Rigdon > except help when I needed it, which is more than I can say of you. I too have received considerable help from Joe and consider him to be *extremely* competent. Changing the PS in a Lisa is not exactly "Rocket Science" although he *does* have experience in that arena as well ;-) Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years, 2 months

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MCA Ethernet Cards

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 5/26/00 1:31:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dlinder(a)uiuc.edu writes: > I have recently stumbled on large stash of MicroChannel Ethernet Cards. > I'm thinking of taking the whole bunch (brother & I have a large ps/2 > colelction), but would have leftovers for all to partake in. I heard > these are generally hard to find, so let me know if you're interested. > > Ah yes, if I remember, they're various makes & models. keep a lookout for cabletron and 3com 3c509 models. you will have the least compatibility problems with those two NICs and they even work in os/2 most MCA T/R NICs will have a 16/4 sticker on them which is a dead giveaway for token ring. DB Young -> MCA and OS/2 user and enthusiast hurry, hurry, step right up! see the computers you used as a kid! http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm

26 years, 2 months

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MCA Ethernet Cards

by dlinder＠uiuc.edu

All: I have recently stumbled on large stash of MicroChannel Ethernet Cards. I'm thinking of taking the whole bunch (brother & I have a large ps/2 colelction), but would have leftovers for all to partake in. I heard these are generally hard to find, so let me know if you're interested. Ah yes, if I remember, they're various makes & models. ttfn - Dan Linder / dlinder(a)uiuc.edu / upside(a)mcs.net - - Riot sounds start riots. / keep talking... -

26 years, 2 months

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Get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? [Was: Re:Notes on repairing the Apple Lisa power supply]

by mgregory＠vantageresearch.com

-----Original Message----- From: R. D. Davis <rdd(a)smart.net> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Thursday, May 25, 2000 4:57 PM Subject: Re: Get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? [Was: Re:Notes on repairing the Apple Lisa power supply] <snip> > >Not always. E.g., a device like a PSU that was working, and is then >moved, can have a bit of metal, solder, etc. come lose and short >something out. > I'll concede this point if you're moving it across the country, where careless shippers can bang it around and jar something loose. But when moving it across the room from one system to another, I'd say the chances of a catastrophic failure are small. >Yes, right... fry that system and then sell it on e-bay, that's ok, >because it will still bring a high price, so who cares whether it >works, right? Turn the monitors into fishbowls, remove core memory >and sell it in a picture frame, because, who cares if these are used >again since they can bring big bucks on e-bay. > You're missing the points I was trying to make. Firstly, Lisas are relatively common; thousands were built and thousands survive. It's not like we were talking about, say, an Apple I, where only 600-odd were made, and only a couple of hundred survive. The stakes in using slightly risky trouble-shooting techniques to fix a Lisa are low. Secondly, I care a lot about whether old computers work. Most of the 60+ systems in my collection work, and I'm always trying to find parts and information to fix the ones that don't. But I accept the reality that sometimes old computers die, and get used as donors to fix others. And I was trying to point out that since Lisa's fetch very high prices these days, Joe could even recover some of his investment even in the worst case scenario. The idea of accidentally blowing up a Lisa seems to bother you a lot. If you want to save every single remaining classic computer that exists, you're going to need a bigger apartment / house / warehouse / city to live in, because you're going to need a _lot_ of room. Finally, I think you need to remember that if you've never met someone, and know nothing about them, it's rude to make assumptions about or disparage their intelligence, character, or attitudes. Even in e-mail. And that's my final word on the matter Mark.

26 years, 2 months

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Altair parts substitutions

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>> The 8101 dual-port 256bx4 RAM is no longer available, but Jameco has a 5101 >> which looks like a likely sub. > >Check the timing specs; the 5101 might be slower. To run at 8080/2mhz it needs to be 600ns or better. In 1975 5101s were typically 1000ns or the fast ones at 850. > >Also, 8101 is just a different marketing designation for 2101, just like >8702 for 1702, etc. The 2101 should be easier to find. > >Apparently Intel's marketing people didn't think that engineers would be >able to figure out that their standard RAM, ROM, PROM, and EPROM >products would work with the 8080, so they introduced 8xxx-series part >numbers for them. No, not quite. It was a marketing thing to "bundle" parts with like numbers to indicate compatability for sales. The best of those was the 8205 that was really a 74138 but intel kept claiming it was a similar but gltich free part. I cracked one open to prove a point and th intel part was a TI 74138 die. Kitting, the name used by those in the trade back then was intels way of insuring they didn't get cherry picked for the 8224 and 8212 while AMD got the 8080 order along with someone else getting the ram order. Allison

26 years, 2 months

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Altair parts substitutions

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>.. very close. Apparently there was a process difference. >> Though intel did at times morph one part/process into another. > >According to the 1980 Component Data Catalog, the specifications for >the 3205 (p. 2-22) and 8205 (p. 6-45) are identical. DC, AC, and all >the graphs. By 1980 intel was shifting to mos/Hmos/HmosII and by then those parts were way down the the process scaling and 32xx were nearly extinct. In 76, that was not the case. Keep in mind my comment that intel did morph parts into one another. Allison

26 years, 2 months

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Altair parts substitutions

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>I don't think this was an accident, nor was it a mistake. The only >reference I've ever heard/read made to a bipolar fab under Intel's ownership >has been from you. It's not unlikely that I could have missed it, being I worked for their competitor from 79 to 84 so I'd have to know that. I never said they had a lot of capacity, they did however do bipolar as a supporting technology. Allison

26 years, 2 months

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Paper tape format

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>I suppose one could use a hex format, but I've never seen anything under >CP/M other than binary. Normally it's loaded into memory and then saved to >disk. The common file format for ASM output and LOAD input as well as DDT was intel HEX format. it would be logical to puch tape in that format as it had checksum. I'd add that the OS enforced no format for PUNCH and READER devices other than you could present 8bit and recive 8bit data if you cared to. Allison >> What is the punch format used for a paper tape that would be used on an >> Altair or IMSAI? Is it straight binary or something like the Intel Hex >> format? >> >> The reason why I'm asking is because I'm toying with adding a virtual >>paper tape punch/reader to Claus Guiloi's IMSAI emulator. >> >> >> Rich

26 years, 2 months

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Altair parts substitutions

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>> However no one ever supplied the 3000 two bit slice other than intel. > >I don't know if they ever actually supplied them, but I have a 1978 >Signetics 'Bipolar and MOS microprocessors' Databook that lists the >S/N3001 microprogam control unit and the S/N3002 Central Processing >Element. AFAIK they are equivalent to the Intel parts. > >The UK availability chart on the inside cover seem to imply that the >3000-series were available from Signetics in the UK. Sig was the second source for many and made few if any. >The same book also lists the 2901-1 4-bit bit-slice, the 8x300, the 8080, >SC/MP-II and the 2650. And a number of peripheral devices. >One other 'fun' item in the book is the 3000KT8080SK. This is a kit (PCB >+ components) to make an 8080-compatible CPU using 3000 bit-slice. I >would _love_ to see the documentation (which included schematics and >microprogram listings) for this kit ;-) It's been years but I've seen the intel version of that kit. I ahve the signetics catalog but never met anyone that could get half the parts in it. Allison

26 years, 2 months

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Question about PC-MOS

by steverob＠hotoffice.com

Has anybody heard of an OS called "PC-MOS"? I'm supposed to pick up a system on Saturday that runs that OS and was wondering what the heck it is. Thanks, Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years, 2 months

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Bootable Floppy from CD?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 5/24/00 10:05:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, richard(a)idcomm.com writes: > I've never encountered that version 6.3. I've got a few sets of install > disketted for DOS 6.21, which was made up for DELL, specifically without the > compression support in it or among its utilities. I, havning spent much > time testing the more popular compression schemes, am an avid user of > compression. I've found it to be no more problem-prone than plain-vanilla > DOS, yet the maintenance tools (scandisk) seem to work better on compressed > volumes than on uncompressed. Compression does seem to enhance disk > subsystem preformance. If you have a solid backup regimen, you should never > have to worry about data loss just because you use compression. I found > that DRVSPACE yielded about a 15% performance increase and had no added risk > of system failure. I also found that the risk of data loss was actually > lower (based on my substantial but still relatively small data sample) than > that with uncompressed data, probably due to the more effective error > management tools. > I use pcdos 6.3 and 7.0. much better than msdos i think, and i prefer the editor. how in the world can one realise 15% performance increase running disk compression? logic would indicate a degradation since you are running an extra task to compress the hard drive not to mention less memory space in the UMBs to load the compression driver high. i do not use any sort of disk compression and never recommend it to anyone. i supported end users, and there were too many times when users compressed their hard drives, and ended up hosing them. only option to them was fdisk and reinstall. K.I.S.S. DB Young ICQ: 29427634 hurry, hurry, step right up! see the computers you used as a kid! http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm

26 years, 2 months

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Question about PC-MOS

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

Mult-user clone of MS/PC-DOS, was from a company called TSL (The Software Link). hth, -dq -----Original Message----- From: Steve Robertson [mailto:steverob@hotoffice.com] Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 4:13 PM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org Subject: Question about PC-MOS Has anybody heard of an OS called "PC-MOS"? I'm supposed to pick up a system on Saturday that runs that OS and was wondering what the heck it is. Thanks, Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>

26 years, 2 months

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Altair parts substitutions

by allisonp＠world.std.com

- > I was talking about Intel's 5 volt '08. They may have been >called 2758 or 2508, I don't recall. As far as I know, >Intel never specifically made a 5 volt 1Kx8 EPROM die, only >the 2Kx8. TI was first out with a single rail '08 and was Yes they did. early 2758 was half good 2716. Later it was small die 1k as there was market demand. >doing in the 2708 sales from Intel. That is when Intel started >relabling the half bad 2716's( Yes, I know that the pinout are the 2708 was a different pinout from the 2716. >to do with what we were talking about? ). Early on these half >bad parts were cheaper than 2716's but later in their life, >they were list as being more expensive. EBayism struck, later they were nearly out of production and Rare. But the products that needed them lived on. hance the high price near end of life. Allison >Dwight >\

26 years, 2 months

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Altair parts substitutions

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>> Yes, but ... the 5-volt parts were costing on the order of $100 per piece. >> I bought a bunch for a project and still remember the "sticker-shock," >> though it wasn't any better a year later when I had to buy 2732's. In the >> latter case, I sold them for $25 each to a west-coast surplus vendor who >> turned around and sold them for $80 each. I paid $11 each for a handful of 2508s in late 1976. A year later 2716s were 12$. 2732s were much later and more costly, in 1979(late) I paid a whopping 15$ each. > I find it interesting that after the 2716's were out for a while, >and the price had dropped to someplace in the $5-$10 range someplace, The halfgood part 2758 was used on the IMSAI IMP-48 in 1977! >the intel 2508's were still in the high $30's. This always >amused me because there was no difference at all between the >Intel 2716 and the 2508 other than the 2508 was a half bad >2716. I call that real good sales to take bad parts and get BZZT! 2708 was three voltage and the 2716 was 5V huge difference in pin out too. The problem was many vendors were gouging for them and STILL! Allison

26 years, 2 months

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