- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Some said they have CDOS and Cromemco disks

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

I played with the serial <> RDOS transfer a little bit more this evening. I was able to transfer an image of CDOS + INIT into the machine and start it up directly from memory - however in order to make sure that this is doable on a Cromemco bank switched memory card, I have to keep it within 32k ... I discovered that CDOS won't INIT a DS/DD disk when it's gen'd for 32k (I get a weird error about a non-existant drive 'h') ... It works fine if gen'd for 48k or 64k. It will however INIT a SS/SD disk when it's gen'd for 32k ... so it's going to be a bit of a multi-step process. First, you download CDOS+INIT to memory and INIT a SS/SD disk - then you transfer a SS/SD disk image with 48k gen'd CDOS and INIT - this will let you INIT any type of disk. Once you INIT a DS/DD disk, then you can transfer the full CDOS and Cromix images. I'm doing this with 5.25" drives - I assume most people will be able to dig up a 5.25" drive to bootstrap, even if their machine as 8" drives - I'm genning the CDOS to have Drives A=Small B=Large C=Small and D=Large - that way you should be able to INIT the right type of drive on a system with either two small or two large drives. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years, 4 months

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Commodore Adding Machine plus FREE stuff to get rid of

by fernande＠internet1.net

Okay here's the deal. I bought this Commodore 202 adding machine from Goodwill a few years ago, I think for $2.00. I promised it to someone for 7.00 plus shipping, but I never got around to making it happen. I can't recall who I promised it to, Though. If I promised to you, please let me know if you still want it, or not. I want to get it out of my way .... I box it up and ship it this time! It does have a piece broken out of the case by the plug. I don't know if it works as I've never tried plugging it in. Free: 2 72-pin 4 meg simms, marked "ASSY IN USA POWMEM" 1 IBM 7024-113 wide scsi case, that I think is only good for 3.5" single ended drives. The board that has the external connectors on it says "Single Ended EPOW". It's dis-assembled. The inside bottom part of the chassis has some corrosion on it.... not rust, it's whitish and is from when I tried soaking off some sticky stuff off of it, it should clean up. I never did get all the sticky stuff off. The rest of it is very nice. I'd use it myself, but I need a case for 5.25" FH drives, not a 3.5" drive. Please respond privately. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA

21 years, 4 months

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Final reminder: 30th Trenton Computer Festival is this weekend

by news＠computercollector.com

http://www.tcf-nj.org (returns this year to Trenton State College, now called "The College of New Jersey") Special exhibit: MARCH (Mid-Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists) and the New Jersey Antique Radio Club ----------------------------------------- Evan Koblentz's personal homepage: www.snarc.net *** Tell your friends about the (free!) Computer Collector Newsletter - 700 readers and no spam / Publishes every Monday / Write for us! - Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all - W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news at computercollector.com

21 years, 4 months

1
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Some said they have CDOS and Cromemco disks

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

>Subject: Re: Some said they have CDOS and Cromemco disks > From: "Randy McLaughlin" <cctalk at randy482.com> >Adding a "single-density" drive to a PC does not give you the ability to >read single density. There is for all intents no such animal as a "single density drive". >The PC itself is what needs to be able to handle FM. Some can, some can't. The 765 FDC core knows both and and *should* but with the bare 765 chip that requires a bit of external logic around clocks and data seperators. For the later integrated 765 cores like the 37C65 it's more a programming issue. One caveat on that is the slowest rate (125kb/s 5.25 SD) is often not available however if you have a standalone XT or AT class clard the typical 16mhz clock on the board can be replaced with a 8mhz (move all the data rates down by 50%). I have such a hacked board as it was an older one using a 765A and came with a rare thing, a schematic. However bios support for such a thing is NOT there and you have to do all the work and even for an unhacked board the bios may be less than helpful. Allison

21 years, 4 months

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ICL 1902 manuals

by bpettit＠ix.netcom.com

Below is a thread (from Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers) on some ICL manuals. It would be great if one of our UK friends could get these (and/or a copy) to some of the archivists for everyone's benefits. Can anyone follow up on this? Billy Pettit ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alan J. Wylie Apr 13, 1:49 pm show options Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: a... at wylie.me.uk (Alan J. Wylie) - Find messages by this author Date: 13 Apr 2005 21:49:09 +0100 Local: Wed,Apr 13 2005 1:49 pm Subject: Re: IBM's last tabulator (last unit-record punch card machine)? Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:46:25 +0100, Brian W Spoor <b... at fcs.eu.com> said: > I already have cross-links with Rod between his 1300 site and my > 1900 site On the subject of 1900's: A long, long time ago (late 1975/early 1976), Computer Weekly[1] ran a "Win-A-Computer" competition for schools. My school (the then Keswick Grammar) entered a project analysing Cumbrian Stone Circles using a HP 9830A[2]. We came second. The first prize was a DEC Classic minicomputer. The day of the prize-giving clashed with one of my "A"-level exams, so I missed out on getting my photo in print and meeting Patrick Moore. Soon afterwards, a firm that was retiring its old 1900 donated it as a "second prize" to our school, just as I was leaving. My brother played with the bits and pieces (what on earth were a bunch of school children supposed to do with them?) and preserved some of them. A couple of weeks ago I helped him to clear out his loft, and rescued a box of manuals. I note your posting here of 2005-02-26[3], so if you are interested in any of the below, let me know. I'll look after them, and make sure they aren't lost to posterity. Inventory: ICT E.S.O. Machine Manual for Central Processors Type 1941/3 6us 16K sotre serial no 405 ICL 1902-3 Training Manual ICT Program Specification Standard Executive 1902/3 ICL System Manual - Volume I Central Processors - Volume II Basic Peripherals ICT Engineering Services Manual Type 1902, volumes 1,3,4 and 5, plus two binders of circuit diagrams, etc. ICL 1902-3 System Programmes Logic Diagrams - Type 1915 and 1916 paper tape readers 1925 paper tape punch Type 1902 Central Processor [1] http://www.computerweekly.com/ [2] http://www.hpmuseum.org/hp9830?.htm [3] http://groups.google.co.uk/gro?ups?selm=M7qdnSuy-ZUuf73fRVnyv?g%40eclip... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Billy Apr 14, 8:30 pm show options Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: "Billy" <bpett... at comcast.net> - Find messages by this author Date: 14 Apr 2005 20:30:25 -0700 Local: Thurs,Apr 14 2005 8:30 pm Subject: Re: IBM's last tabulator (last unit-record punch card machine)? Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Remove | Report Abuse They are several sites that will scan old manuals available and make them available on archivist sites. Most noteable is bitsavers: http://computer-refuge.org/bit?savers/ If you will allow me to forward your message to some of these archivists, we can find a way to preserve these manuals for the benefit of all. I've been getting all my old CDC manuals ready to put up on the net. Other oldtimers have done the same. Your treasure trove would make a wonderful addition to the online library. The manuals could be returned to you after scanning. Billy Pettit Reply ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Alan J. Wylie Apr 14, 11:55 pm show options Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: a... at wylie.me.uk (Alan J. Wylie) - Find messages by this author Date: 15 Apr 2005 07:55:42 +0100 Local: Thurs,Apr 14 2005 11:55 pm Subject: Re: IBM's last tabulator (last unit-record punch card machine)? Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse On 14 Apr 2005 20:30:25 -0700, "Billy" <bpett... at comcast.net> said: > If you will allow me to forward your message to some of these > archivists, we can find a way to preserve these manuals for the > benefit of all. Of course - that's my primary motivation for rescuing the box - to make sure that the information is preserved for posterity. I'm in Yorkshire, UK. -- - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Alan J. Wylie http://www.wylie.me.uk/ "Perfection [in design] is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but rather when there is nothing left to take away." -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery Reply ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian W Spoor Apr 15, 1:51 am show options Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: Brian W Spoor <b... at fcs.eu.com> - Find messages by this author Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:51:45 +0100 Local: Fri,Apr 15 2005 1:51 am Subject: Re: IBM's last tabulator (last unit-record punch card machine)? Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Alan J. Wylie wrote: > I note your posting here of 2005-02-26[3], so if you are interested in > any of the below, let me know. I'll look after them, and make sure > they aren't lost to posterity. > Inventory: > ICT E.S.O. Machine Manual for Central Processors > Type 1941/3 6us 16K sotre serial no 405 > ICL 1902-3 Training Manual > ICT Program Specification Standard Executive 1902/3 > ICL System Manual - Volume I Central Processors > - Volume II Basic Peripherals > ICT Engineering Services Manual Type 1902, volumes 1,3,4 and 5, > plus two binders of circuit diagrams, etc. > ICL 1902-3 System Programmes > Logic Diagrams - Type 1915 and 1916 paper tape readers > 1925 paper tape punch > Type 1902 Central Processor I'm interested in any IC1900 related manuals to either borrow or add to my collection, with the intention of making them available online as PDF files. See: http://www.fcs.eu.com/techlib/?index.html and http://www.fcs.eu.com/icl1900/?library.html Did you get my email?

21 years, 4 months

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OT but useful if you use PINE to filter CC mail into folders; if not, ignore and move along

by vcf＠siconic.com

So for a couple years I'd been suffering from a rather tiresome problem. I used to have a separate e-mail address for receiving CC mail but it got annoying having to log in to a separate account to read it, plus people would send me e-mail at that address and I'd have to forward them to my primary address because I like to have all communications in one place. So I ditched that account and figured out how to use PINE to filter messages into their own folders. But then something funny started to happen, and I didn't associate it with this new configuration. Groups of messages from the CC mailing list would show up in my mailbox over and over (and over and over and sometimes over and over and over again). It was rather obnoxious. Messages I'd already read and deleted hours or days ago would suddenly re-appear as new again. I'd have to go through and delete all these messages to get to the actual new ones. Sometimes there'd be repeats, then new messages, then the same repeats plus the new messages repeated and then newer messages, etc. I dealt with it for a while. I blamed Jay. A couple times. Even though he denied it was a problem with the CC server, I had my suspicions :) I decided to leave Jay alone finally and focus on my server. I figured it was screwy. It's old and running low on HD space anyway. But I still didn't know why it was doing this and didn't have the foggiest idea where to begin looking. So recently I subscribed to several of the local FreeCycle mailing lists and set PINE filters to route those messages into their own folder. And I began to receive a flood of messages. And repeats. It was then that I finally realized that PINE was the culprit. I deleted the PINE filters for FreeCycle and instead added some rules to my .procmailrc. Sure enough, the duplicates stopped. I then deleted my filters for the CC list and added rules to .procmailrc for the CC list and the duplicates FINALLY stopped there as well. It's been a few days like this and I feel confident saying the problem is solved. I still don't know why this was happening, but the moral of the story is that PINE's filtering sucks and should not be used. If you're having a problem such as I describe, turn off PINE filters and use procmail instead. It might be the version I'm using, which is somewhat old (4.33) though I'm not sure if this has been fixed in later versions. I hope this helps someone else return to sanity. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

21 years, 4 months

2
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Z8530 (was Re: Navtel 9460 Protocol Analyzer info?)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

>Subject: Re: Z8530 (was Re: Navtel 9460 Protocol Analyzer info?) > From: Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> > Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 22:00:43 -0400 >> Oh, along the way the 85C30 was a far better part. > >Do tell. I have a number of machines that use the Z8530 (Sun, Mac, >Amiga A-Max board, COMBOARD...) and quite a few loose chips, but do >not know any differences with the 85C30. First off subbing in an 85C30 isn't going to improve those systems. The bigger differces is first the 85C30 is cmos and far lower in power. The DMA support is better with a 10x19 fifo for status and a 14 bit counter. The Softwaare interrupt ack feature is there (not in the NMOS part). It's about twice faster and easily support T1 trunk. There are subtle small changes that impact SDLC management. It's esscentally a pin compatable improved part. Thsi is why I have miles of shelf space, so if the brain fails I can look it up. Allison

21 years, 4 months

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Dead AIM 65??

by andyda＠earthlink.net

My AIM 65 has been sitting in the original box since about 1985. I think it was working when I packed it up, the only reason I packed it up was I got my first Mac and didn't have room on my desk for both, so the AIM got packed. Anyway, I got out my power supply, checked it out, sure enough +5v was still +5v and +24 v was still +24v. I then unpacked the AIM, trying to be as "static sensitive" as possible, then visually inspected it for obvious problems (anti-static material stuck on pins) and then did a little re-seat of all the socketed ICs. plugged in the keybaord, connected the +5v only and applied power... Nothing, no display, nothing I checked the +5 at a TP on the board and it appeared OK.. I then checked the ICs again and appllied power again... nothing. Well, it then thought I would see what happens if I apply the +24v and +5v. Connected it up turned it on, nothing... upon turining it off the printer cycled ( think it was just an electro-mechanical thing, not control). Well, remove power, inspect the board again, blow off any dust, gently, partly remove all the socketed ICs (not out of the sockets) in hopes that maybe if there was some oxidation it would wipe it off. Connected the +5v only and turned it on again... nothing, nada, zilch (bummer) I don't have a scope or anything, I only have a VOM, so my testing is rather limited, I don't even know anyone who still has an o'scope. Any ideas of what I could try? Any ideas of a way I can get it repaired in So. CA? Thanks for any and all help or ideas, Andy

21 years, 4 months

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Z8530 (was Re: Navtel 9460 Protocol Analyzer info?)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Z8530 (was Re: Navtel 9460 Protocol Analyzer info?) > From: "Eric Smith" <eric at brouhaha.com> > Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:13:26 -0700 (PDT) >I think Allison meant that the 8530 had the DRQ/DACK signals needed to >make it easily work with a DMA controller. Most simpler UART chips >didn't have those. No Eric, when I said it had DMA I ment the bus master and the data counters. Sheesh, I have disks near as old as me then drop more bits but munging info like that is a major brain fart. Oh well least I have the data books and the parts to correct myself. Oh, along the way the 85C30 was a far better part. Allison

21 years, 4 months

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OS Challenger video?

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

Can the Challenger drive a compostite video monitor directly or is it only designed to drive an RF modulator? Joe

21 years, 4 months

5
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new HP-2100 collector

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Tim Riker" <Tim at rikers.org> ---snip--- > >Does anyone know what the "Sandia Laboratories" desk + racks is for? >There is only one thing left in the rack and it's in real bad shape. > >http://rikers.org/gallery/hardware/20050415_092748 >http://rikers.org/gallery/hardware/20050415_092802 >http://rikers.org/gallery/hardware/20050415_104726 > ---snip--- Hi Tim Sandia Labs do all kinds of things. They even build one of a kind super computers to all kinds of things. That rack could have been just about anything. Unless it was someone that worked there, that worked on that specific machine, I doubt anyone would know what it was for. Even then, it may be that because of their security clearance, they couldn't tell you what it was. Dwight

21 years, 4 months

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Dead AIM 65??

by dm561＠torfree.net

-------------------Original Message: Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:24:56 -0400 From: Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> Subject: Re: Dead AIM 65?? <snip> >The downside is that there's only room on the mainboard for 4K, >so memory expansions are external, and used to cost a lot >(and are rare now because there didn't use to be a wide variety of them). Later versions had provision for up to 40K on board; I've got one sitting beside me. >It's pretty useful out of the box for a machine that doesn't >come with a disk interface. You certainly get more than the few >digits and a calculator keypad of the KIM/SYM line. Don't forget about the built-in current-loop & almost-RS232 interface; with the built-in monitor & text editor it was almost a "real" computer when connected to a terminal/TTY, even using the built-in (very reliable) cassette interface instead of the optional disk drive. Other factory options included EPROM programmer, Centronics printer interface, CRTC video interface etc.; languages included BASIC, FORTH, PL/1, Pascal and assembler; the AIM65 was also the core of a fairly extensive professional 65xx development system with the AIM65 SPS & DOS ROMs and various optional RM65 expansion modules. mike

21 years, 4 months

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Dead AIM 65??

by dm561＠torfree.net

--------------------Original Message: Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:44:26 -0700 From: Andy Dannelley <andyda at earthlink.net> Subject: Dead AIM 65?? <snip> Connected the +5v only and turned it on again... nothing, nada, zilch (bummer) I don't have a scope or anything, I only have a VOM, so my testing is rather limited, I don't even know anyone who still has an o'scope. Any ideas of what I could try? Any ideas of a way I can get it repaired in So. CA? Thanks for any and all help or ideas, Andy ------------------Reply: Make sure both the STEP & TTY switches are forward (toward the keyboard) and press RESET a few times; they were reluctant to start at times. If there's a remote RESET button, disconnect it. Next, I would try removing all unnecessary chips & swapping where possible, in case one of them is locking up the bus (the most common problem). There were several models/revisions of the AIM 65; assuming you have one of the original 4K 20 column versions with 2114 RAMS and not the 40K version with 32K & 8K RAMs (or the 40 column version): Remove Z7, Z12, Z18, Z6, Z11 and Z17, as well as Z1 (6522). (If it's a 40K model: remove Z1 and Z2) Also remove Z24, Z25 & Z26 if there are any (Option ROMs). Confirm that Z22 & Z23 contain R3222 & R3223 ROMs respectively. If it still doesn't start, replace the Z32 6522 (underneath the display) with the one you removed; also, if it's a 4K model, try replacing the two remaining 2114s (Z2 & Z3) as Ethan suggested. If it's still dead, by all means try measuring the address & data lines as Tony suggested (one of those times when an analog VOM is useful). Good luck! BTW, the 24V is indeed only required for the printer, so you can leave it disconnected; it will start with a "PRINTER DOWN" message if the printer is not powered or connected. And FYI: BASIC was an option (Z25 & Z26) as was the assembler, PL/1, and a host of other goodies. And the 40 column model did indeed have a fluorescent display; the 20 col. versions used DL1416 LED displays. Jules: I may still have some display covers; I'll have a look & let you know. BTW, AIM65s were indeed just bare boards & keyboards initially, with various 3rd parties making cases for them, but then Rockwell (and later Dynatem, who took over the AIM65) started to supply them with the metal-bottom/brown-plastic-cover case & power supply. mike

21 years, 4 months

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Dead AIM 65??

by dm561＠torfree.net

--------------------Original Message: Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:44:26 -0700 From: Andy Dannelley <andyda at earthlink.net> Subject: Dead AIM 65?? <snip> Connected the +5v only and turned it on again... nothing, nada, zilch (bummer) I don't have a scope or anything, I only have a VOM, so my testing is rather limited, I don't even know anyone who still has an o'scope. Any ideas of what I could try? Any ideas of a way I can get it repaired in So. CA? Thanks for any and all help or ideas, Andy ------------------Reply: Make sure both the STEP & TTY switches are forward (toward the keyboard) and press RESET a few times; they were reluctant to start at times. If there's a remote RESET button, disconnect it. Next, I would try removing all unnecessary chips & swapping where possible, in case one of them is locking up the bus (the most common problem). There were several models/revisions of the AIM 65; assuming you have one of the original 4K 20 column versions with 2114 RAMS and not the 40K version with 32K & 8K RAMs (or the 40 column version): Remove Z7, Z12, Z18, Z6, Z11 and Z17, as well as Z1 (6522). (If it's a 40K model: remove Z1 and Z2) Also remove Z24, Z25 & Z26 if there are any (Option ROMs). Confirm that Z22 & Z23 contain R3222 & R3223 ROMs respectively. If it still doesn't start, replace the Z32 6522 (underneath the display) with the one you removed; also, if it's a 4K model, try replacing the two remaining 2114s (Z2 & Z3) as Ethan suggested. If it's still dead, by all means try measuring the address & data lines as Tony suggested (one of those times when an analog VOM is useful). Good luck! BTW, the 24V is indeed only required for the printer, so you can leave it disconnected; it will start with a "PRINTER DOWN" message if the printer is not powered or connected. And FYI: BASIC was an option (Z25 & Z26) as was the assembler, PL/1, and a host of other goodies. And the 40 column model did indeed have a fluorescent display; the 20 col. versions used DL1416 LED displays. Jules: I may still have some display covers; I'll have a look & let you know. BTW, AIM65s were indeed just bare boards & keyboards initially, with various 3rd parties making cases for them, but then Rockwell (and later Dynatem, who took over the AIM65) started to supply them with the metal-bottom/brown-plastic-cover case & power supply. mike

21 years, 4 months

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Dead AIM 65??

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

Anyway, back to the original subject. There is no magic bullet to bring these older machines back to life. Some of the things that can help are, not in any particular order: 1. Volt meter 2. Logic Probe 3. Set of schematics 4. Oscilloscope 5. Soldering iron w/ solder 6. Parts to swap 7. assembler/disassembler 8. EPROM programmer 9. Source listing 10. Needle nose pliers 11. solder sucker and/or solder wick Also, one needs clear logical thinking ( not all that common in the world today ). The debugging procedure is in specific order: 1. gather symptoms and observations. 2. Form hypothesis of possible cause. 3. Test to see if hypothesis is correct. 4. If problem not found, include results into observations of step one and repeat. Dwight

21 years, 4 months

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Some said they have CDOS and Cromemco disks

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

>I am basically in the same boat. I have a Z2, no diskette (well, it had >one, but it was seriously warped). > >A 5.25" disk image, along with a way to send it via a serial port would be >just the ticket. > >Any developments since 3/25? I have software working which will both backup and restore Cromemco disks by reading/writing tracks to/from memory via the RDOS RD/WD commands, and transferring the data to/from the PC with D and SM commands ... it's slow, but it works, and I have successfully backed up and recreated both CDOS and Cromix boot disks in both 5.25" and 8" formats. The only problem is that in order to WD the disk, it has to be formatted. Currently I have to boot CDOS to format the disk - but once I have a blank disk (all it needs is the physical formatting since the file system will be overwritten), I can create either a CDOS or Cromix boot disk via a serial connection. The next step will be to see if we can transfer the CDOS and INIT images code directly to memory and activate it via the serial port - if I can get this working, then you should be able to create a boot disk without having to boot the system into CDOS first. I've just gotten busy with other things.... Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years, 4 months

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FA: SGI drives & sleds, VME bus analyzer, TRS-80 OS-9 & BASIC09

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

Cleaning out more stuff that I don't need. <http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZrigdonj>.

21 years, 4 months

2
2
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IBM Nixie tube voltmeter?

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

Last week I found a box marked "IBM" "01480" "DC Volts" that has three Nixie tubes in it. I tested it and sure enough it's DC voltmeter. It's black and measures roughly 4"w x 2 1/2" x 8". It has a single neon light on the LH side that acts as a "1" so that it can read up to 1.999. On the side of the box is a sticker that says API Instruments Model 430 and has the pinout of the rear connector and some other data. Anybody know what this is out of or anything else about it? Joe

21 years, 4 months

3
3
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Oscilloscope question

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

My current scope ... for the past 25 years ... is a Heathkit IO-4235, the last scope that Heathkit really designed themselves and offered in kit form (there were some later scopes, made by other firms and private labeled). The 4235 is dual trace, delayed sweep, 35MHz. It's in new condition, but it has sat in storage, in a box, for years at a time, at least 3 times. And on two occasions I've really had to tear into it to make some major repairs (shorted tantalum caps blow the power supply .... and they blow it violently, with smoke, fire and loud acoustics), but it's in new condition right now. About 4 months ago, the pilot light (an incandescent 24 volt bulb) blew out. While I was in there to replace the light bulb, I noticed a 3500 uF 35 volt capacitor in the power supply totally blown apart. Mind you, the scope was working, and I am quite sure that the capacitor had been that way for years. The trace does seem "smoother" since I replaced that. If anyone is looking for a good scope on E-Bay, the Heathkit IO-4510 was a very good basic, triggered sweep dual trace scope (although only 15MHz), and can be found cheaply on E-Bay (it will probably cost you more to ship than you will pay for it). It's actual construction is in some ways better than that of the 4235.

21 years, 4 months

1
0
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Dead AIM 65??

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

>PS. while on the topic of 6502's , does anybody know where I can get >a pdf online data sheet 68B50 ? Datasheets for the 8 bit stuff is getting >harder to find all the time for the original products. It's on my website: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html Go to the "Dunfield 6809 Portable" section under "Homebuilts", and then on to "Documentation" and "Reference material" - I have a scanned 68[AB]50 datasheet there. Regards, -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years, 4 months

2
1
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Identify this IBM box?

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "JP Hindin" <jplist at kiwigeek.com> > > >On Fri, 15 Apr 2005, Ashley Carder wrote: >> north of Orangeburg, where the stuff is located. I >> can't remember... how heavy is that S/34? I remember >> that it was about 4+ feet tall and maybe 6 or 8 feet >> deep. I can remember one night when I was playing > >Having moved one from Arkansas to Iowa, I can tell you that it isn't a >task to be taken on lightly. Particularly without a lift-deck. > >I'm guessing the unit weighs around 900lbs, is approximately 7' long, 3' >deep and 4' high. >The machine is on good quality casters, so it'll roll like a dream, but >it's extreme weight makes it a royal pain in the butt to move. > >If you'd like a chuckle, you can view my attempts to move it using a Ford >F150, a winch and a pair of lawnmower ramps: > http://www.kiwigeek.com/hjp/comps/IBM_s34/PickUp/ > >JP Hi Of course, there is always the option of renting a forklift. Most any rental place has them. Dwight

21 years, 4 months

2
1
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K&N Electronics LSL20

by jim＠g1jbg.co.uk

Hi, has anyone got any details on the above device? It is a 20mA loop to V24 interface box, labelled s a "Digital converter line driver". I thought I'd ask before I trace the circuit. Thanks Jim. Please see our website the " Vintage Communication Pages" at WWW.G1JBG.CO.UK

21 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Dead AIM 65??

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "woodelf" <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> > >Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > >>Hi >> They also had ROMs for Forth, that I find more useful than >>BASIC. >> >> >Well if Forth had floating point math is could see it competing with BASIC. >Other than GAMES I found very little other calculator style programs could >be written in BASIC. In hindsight word processing and acounting and games >that really made the mass market for computers. Hi It should be noted that the first version of Word Star ( I think that is the one ) was written in Forth. I'm not saying the fellow that did it was using Forth correctly, just that he was able to get it working in a time frame that would have been unrealistic using BASIC or assembly( by his words ). Floating point has been a common extension to Forth for a number of years. It is just that most uP implementations were done from FIG source listing that didn't have floating point. The lack of floating point has surely caused many to avoid Forth. It is a shame that most all applications that the person believes that floating point is needed can often be better implemented in integer of fixed point. It is a shame that most uP's don't properly support fixed point multiplies and divides. Dwight >Ben alias woodelf >PS. while on the topic of 6502's , does anybody know where I can get >a pdf online data sheet 68B50 ? Datasheets for the 8 bit stuff is getting >harder to find all the time for the original products. All 6800 stuff is getting hard to find. Recently I was writing a disassembler for the 6800 to look at code on a pinball machine. I had to dig real deep into my pile of books before finding something with the code described in it. Dwight

21 years, 4 months

1
0
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Oscilloscope question

by technobug＠comcast.net

Ethan bemoaned: > I have an old 465 that seems to have died from loneliness... it has a > dead short somewhere in the PSU such that one of the internal fuses > blows violently. I keep meaning to get around to fixing it (it's my > newest scope (of 4)), but just never mange to do much more than prod > at it. > > -ethan If you wander over to <https://www.logsa.army.mil/pubs.htm> and click on "Electronic Technical Manuals (ETMs) Online" (acceptance of the loss of your first-born is required) you will find a wealth of manuals for older test gear. The 465 service and calibration manuals are there in PDF (with hyperlinks!). CRC

21 years, 4 months

5
4
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Z8530 (was Re: Navtel 9460 Protocol Analyzer info?)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Z8530 (was Re: Navtel 9460 Protocol Analyzer info?) > From: Brad Parker <brad at heeltoe.com> > Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:15:01 -0400 >pretty veratile chip. not bad once you got used to it. difficult to >use w/dma hardware, however. I find that odd as the 8530 had on board DMA. I have a tube of them in the PLCC package and fine them not only fast but fairly similar to the Z80 SIO. Now thats not to say the Z80sio wasn't pita to program either. The only other beast out there like the SIO was the NEC MPSC or 7201 (SS as I8274), that was a sio for 808x busses and also a pain to program for. Allison

21 years, 4 months

3
3
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Dead AIM 65??

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Jules Richardson" <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk> ---snip--- > >> The AIM-65 had BASIC as a rather common option >> (don't remember if it was always present), and routinely came with a >> full-sized ASCII keyboard > >Oh, yep, ours has a proper keyboard too. Can't recall whether it has >BASIC fitted or not. > >cheers > >Jules > > Hi They also had ROMs for Forth, that I find more useful than BASIC. Dwight

21 years, 4 months

2
1
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ASCII art spam

by cb＠mythtech.net

>There's three curious things about this. One, it of course gets >through text-matching filters. Two, it retroactively ruinates >real ASCII art (if this catches on, seems most unlikely). Three, >is there a drawing program for this? The next generation of spam filters needs to start doing spell checking. If more then a certain number of words don't match the dictionary file, then it is rejected. This does double duty, helps filter out spam using letter substitution, and also helps filter out people who can't be bothered with spell check (including all those teens that type like they are chatting via text messaging). :-) -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

21 years, 4 months

11
12
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Z8530 (was Re: Navtel 9460 Protocol Analyzer info?)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Z8530 (was Re: Navtel 9460 Protocol Analyzer info?) > From: Brad Parker <brad at heeltoe.com> >last time I checked the Zilog 8530 didn't have any dma. it's not >capable of being a bus master but itself. > >perhaps we're talking about different things? Yep I munged it with another. The parts I have are the 85C30 and that part is also different >from the base 8030. It has a few improvements. It was pretty easy to mix it all up as I was using it in a Z280 enviroment. Allison

21 years, 4 months

1
0
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Osborne 1

by trixter＠oldskool.org

Would anyone like a free Osborne? I don't want it, so I'll pass the offer onto you... -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/

21 years, 4 months

3
3
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Looking for ROM code printout for SDK-86

by Nanoman＠stny.rr.com

Hi, I am looking to get a ROM code "dump" for the SDK-86. I have a SDK-86 without the ROMs. Thanks,

21 years, 4 months

1
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Appraisals, value, the 'Market' was Re: And $500 gets you...

by eric＠brouhaha.com

Vince wrote: > I think it's like confusing Silicon Valley (or Portland, Oregon) with the > world :-). Maybe if I lived and worked where you do, I would see hundreds > of different venues doing a brisk business in this stuff. If only!!! In my experience it's easier to find interesting old stuff just about anywhere *other* than in Silicon Valley. I find more in Colorado, which I visit a few times a year, than I do in SV. But don't everybody rush to Colorado to grab all the good stuff before I get there! Eric

21 years, 4 months

3
3
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Navtel 9460 Protocol Analyzer info?

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

I found this today. Does anyone have a manual or any information on it? It looks very similar to this 9440 on E-bay <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=97190&item=750632019 5&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW> Joe

21 years, 4 months

13
39
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And $500 gets you...

by marvin＠rain.org

I maintain that Ebay does reflect the state of the market subject to a couple of limitations. 1) Ebay is a *retail* venue although bargains can be had. 2) Looking at *only* the final bid price to determine value is stupid! My general rule of thumb is to go back to the third highest bidder as that eliminates the "game players" who bid with the "Oh yea, take this" mentality. For myself, unless something is offered at substantially less that what I think it is worth, I don't bid. Not regularly checking ebay now helps with this approach :). > A while ago I was discussing EBay-like prices with people (for old > computer stuff). Their argument was that EBay prices reflect the true > state of the market and the true worth of classic computer items. > > I can see their side of it I suppose; I was just amazed that - coming > from a buying point of view - they just didn't believe that a world > existed outside of EBay. Which is fine by me if they want to keep on > paying EBay prices for things (whether they believe they're being ripped > off or not) - I'll just carry on using my brain and getting hold of > things via other routes.

21 years, 4 months

18
46
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Popular Electronics magazine on eBay

by swtpc6800＠comcast.net

I have been collecting Popular Electronics and Radio Electronics for research on Southwest Technical Products for my web site. I used my library database to determine which issues I need and buy them on eBay. With shipping it cost $10 to $20 for a year of issues. In the last week I was looking for Popular Electronics issues September and October 1964 and a better cover for May 1965. An auction including these issues just when for $27 plus shipping. Another one is now going for $51 (Item 6955461806). I thinking what is going on, these prices are way out of line. It takes me a while to scan the pages I want and I still have a backlog to work through. I can wait. Then I realized that both auctions include the April 1965 issue of Popular Electronics. Hey folks, Intel is looking for the April 1965 "Electronics" not "Popular Electronics" "Intel Corp. has posted a $10,000 reward for an original copy, in mint condition, of the April 19, 1965, issue of Electronics, the technical publication in which Intel's founder, Gordon Moore, made his famous forecast.' Michael Holley http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/magazines.htm

21 years, 4 months

1
0
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Oscilloscope question

by wacarder＠usit.net

I'm rapidly approaching the point where I will need to learn how to use an oscilloscope as part of my quest to learn more about debugging the old DEC hardware. What kind of advice can folks offer to me about a decent scope and some info on how to use one? I think I used one 30 years ago in school, but it's been so long that I remember little-to-nothing about it. One of my first exercises might be to attempt a head alignment on an RK05 drive using an alignment pack. I have all the documentation for the drive maintenance, etc. What kind of scope would I need and how much does one cost? Are there any good web sites that would give some basic info on "scopes for dummies" or "scopes for beginners"? Thanks in advance for your advice. This is a never-ending learning experience. Ashley

21 years, 4 months

29
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SYM-1 vs KIM-1 (was Re: MOS Kim-1 Any idea of it's worth/value?)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 13 2005, 20:51, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On 4/13/05, Dwight K. Elvey <dwight.elvey at amd.com> wrote: > > >What's the part number? I might be able to help (I have tubes of > > >8641s, for example). > > > > I'm looking for a DP8303 but with some software > > changes I could most likely get a DP8304 to work. > > Oooh... you are right... that is an unusual one. I don't even > recognize the number. Do you have specs? Would it be possible to get > the right functionality (current drive, etc.) with more than one chip > on a daughter card and plug it into the socket for the DP8303? > > Wish I could help. > > Wonder why they picked something that was so far out of mainstream. They weren't unusual; I've seen quite a few on early 8-bit machines. The DP8304 is an octal tri-state non-inverting bidirectional transceiver, with PNP inputs and 48mA/300pF drive capability on the B outputs, 16mA on the A outputs (all of which are TTL and MOS compatible). ___ ___ A0 | 1 20 | Vcc A1 | 2 19 | B0 A2 | 3 18 | B1 A3 | 4 17 | B2 A4 | 5 16 | B3 A5 | 6 15 | B4 A6 | 7 14 | B5 A7 | 8 13 | B6 CD | 9 12 | B7 GND |10__11_| TRAN/notREC CD is Chip Disable; low enables the tri-state outputs TRAN/notREC low makes A output and B input TRAN/notREC high makes A input and B output DP8303 is the same but inverting; DP8307 and DP8308 are similar but with separate Transmit and Receive inputs. All were still current when my 1996 Nat Semi databook was printed, but the DP8304 was the most common, in my experience. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

21 years, 4 months

1
0
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DEC H734A?

by pat＠computer-refuge.org

(Resending to see if I can catch "the right" people this time.) In a haul of DEC (and other) stuff last week, I got a DEC H734A power supply, not attached to anything. Can anyone tell me what this goes to? Google doesn't have very many hits, and it's not on the the qbus/unibus field guide. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCAC --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org

21 years, 4 months

4
3
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SYM-1 vs KIM-1 (was Re: MOS Kim-1 Any idea of it's worth/value?)

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> > >On 4/13/05, Dwight K. Elvey <dwight.elvey at amd.com> wrote: >> >What's the part number? I might be able to help (I have tubes of >> >8641s, for example). >> >> I'm looking for a DP8303 but with some software >> changes I could most likely get a DP8304 to work. > >Oooh... you are right... that is an unusual one. I don't even >recognize the number. Do you have specs? Would it be possible to get >the right functionality (current drive, etc.) with more than one chip >on a daughter card and plug it into the socket for the DP8303? > >Wish I could help. > >Wonder why they picked something that was so far out of mainstream. > >-ethan > Hi I don't need the fancy differences in the currents. One side drives a higher current than the other. The actual circuit would work fine with a little simple glue logic and a pair of '240 TTL's. It just has to drive the bus on the SYM and a little bit of circuit on the on board bus. I'm just a little lazy at getting around to actually doing it. The right chip would peak my interest. Dwight

21 years, 4 months

2
1
0 0

new classiccmp.org service

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

As many of you have probably seen, the ClassicCmp KnowledgeBase has been announced in Evan's Computer Collector Newsletter. It is my sincere hope that this feature will be of use, not only for seasoned collectors but also for "newbies" just getting in to the hobby (or most wonderfully, maybe pushing a bystander to finally get into the hobby). The knowledgebase software that I chose has some great features, but it also has some bugs. Most notably the penchant for apostrophe's in articles to randomly be escaped as \'. The bugs will be worked out eventually. Note that I have been in contact with the author of the software, and an email interface IS on the schedule of todo's. It will likely be along the lines of sending an email to a special address with a body containing "show articles", and a list of articles with categories gets emailed back. Then you could email something like "show article xxxxx" and get that article is emailed back to you. You could also submit articles and comments via email in an automated fashion. There is no timetable for the email interface, but I wanted to let people know that it won't be forgotten. Of course, the web interface is already there :) This knowledgebase is NOT going to be a replacement for the ClassicCmp lists. Rather, it is meant to augment them as a repository of the somewhat frequent "golden nuggets of wisdom" that appear on the list in a form that is more usable than the archives. In addition, it is meant to keep certain subjects from being rehashed over and over again. When someone new brings up "how do I.....", we can point them to "see knowledge base article XXXX". I want to keep the knowledge base clean (and ensure it doesnt edge into competing with the list) by being quite rigorous about the editing/moderation of submitted articles. In the moderation process I want to make sure that the "comment" feature does not become "conversational". Think of it more as a reference guide, not a novel. It is my hope than when a wonderful tidbit of information appears on the list, that the person posting that will consider writing up a short article for the knowledge base as well. Bear in mind that articles do not need to be large multi-paragraph writeups (although it's great when they are). They can be as brief as a few sentences, or as long as many paragraphs. The topic can be extremely general, or very specific in focus. Feel free to comment (add-to) or submit new articles, even if a similar one is already there. Don't feel you have to be an electronics expert to submit an article. For example, we could use an article about storage of systems to keep mold/pests out. We could use an article on tips for building shelves for manuals, cable management, etc. And yes, we could use an article about basic switching mode power supply troubleshooting. There have been past posts to the list that I would be happy to write up for the knowledge base, however I'm slightly leary of doing that because I think the person who takes the time to write up the knowledge base article should get credit for it (their name as the poster). But of course I don't want to post an article of text that someone ELSE posted to the list and "take credit" for it. I'd just as soon see the person who posted the info to the list write up the knowledgebase article. But perhaps I will post things from the list with both names, the article writer and the information provider as an alternative. The knowledgebase feature grew out of my current task of rewriting the list FAQ. As I was going through it, it occured to me that the FAQ should really be about the list specifically, and not about classic computing in general- ie.. a list FAQ, not a computer FAQ. The old faq did have some good computer faq info, so instead of including that information in the list FAQ I created the knowledgebase and put that information there. Now that that is done, I can go back and revisit the written FAQ and make it specific to just the list which I feel is more appropriate. And yes, you can expect some other new features on the ClassicCmp.org website soon, there's quite a few more interesting things in the way of new services coming up there in the not to distant future. They are currently being worked on and will be announced when complete! They will also be simultaneously announced in the Computer Collector Newsletter. The ClassicCmp Knowledge base is currently available at http://www.classiccmp.org/kb but links will be added to it from the main page at some point soon. Kind regards... Jay West

21 years, 4 months

8
9
0 0

GW-Basic

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Vintage Computer Festival" <vcf at siconic.com> > >On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, John Foust wrote: > >> >> The GW-BASIC name stands for Gee-Whiz BASIC. >> >So, which is it? >> >> As he said, we have to ask Bill Gates. > >I'll just stick with "Gee Whiz" since no one's ever heard of "Greg >Whitten" ;) > >> Dr. Whitten also added in a follow-up: >> >> "I also know something about Intecolor 8001 and Compucolor II machines >> because I was Director of Software for ISC from 1978-1979. I bought an >> ISC 8001 in Jan 77 and worked for them as a consultant in 77 and 78." > >Cool, I've got both. Maybe he can help me get them working when he's not >busy having lunch with Bill G. > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival The only think I thought, as I read his point of view, was that since he was so great at coding and projects at uSoft, why has the product been so shitty for the years he was there and finally looks like it has begin to stablize once he was gone? Dwight

21 years, 4 months

2
1
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plastic "push rivets"??

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org> > >I'm not sure what these things are called... but I need some. I'm calling >them plastic "push rivets", where a plastic plunger pushes through a collar >with 3 or 4 plastic legs. These legs break off. > >All the ones I've seen so far are a pretty common size. However, the ones I >need two of at the moment are slightly smaller than that. Specifically, >these are the two plastic push rivets from an HP 264X terminal that hold the >metal cover over the CRT. > >Anyone ever find a source for these? Both my local electronics places came >up empty. > >Regards, > >Jay West Hi Jay Look at the one in the online McMaster-Carr catalog on page 3054. I think these are the right ones. http://www.mcmaster.com I think they may have a minimum order but I'm sure that with a few minutes looking you'll find enough things to make an order. Later Dwight

21 years, 4 months

5
6
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DP8303 (was SYM-1 vs KIM-1)

by mhscc＠canada.com

------------------Original Message: Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:23:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "Dwight K. Elvey" <dwight.elvey at amd.com> Hi I'm looking for a DP8303 but with some software changes I could most likely get a DP8304 to work. Dwight ------------------Reply: Hi I should have a couple of DP8304BNs (apparently equivalent to INS8208BNs). If you're still looking, email off-list & I'll look for them. mike

21 years, 4 months

1
0
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Old Tek Scopes, was Oscilloscope question

by jim＠g1jbg.co.uk

A few words about the older (500 series) scopes, which have had a few mentions in the main thread: they do suffer from switch failure, usually due to poor maintenance, and the switches are specials, the only source is another scope, and it usually has to be one of teh same model. The Paxolin wafers are also susceptable to insulation breakdown ( the insulation has to be good, some of the trigger switches have 500V potential difference between adjacent contacts), though this is often caused by the use of inapropiate switch cleaner, or excessive lubricant - NEVER spoary WD40, Duck Oil or the like on a switch! Use the proper cleaner, and contact lubricant, sparingly. Clock oil is useful for lubricating the bush part of the switch (where the spindle goes through the frame), and a light grease for the detent mechanism. I have had some luck at recovering these switches when contaminated, but it involves removing them, >from the scope, soaking in de-greaser, drying, and then lubricating properly - not for the faint hearted. The all valve (tube) scopes are usually fairly easy to get parts for (545, 545A, 535, 535A etc), and fairly easy to maintain and repair (I know 100 valves looks daunting, but they can be broken down into small sections for fault finding. The hybrid scopes like the 545B can have some strange transistors in them, which are very difficult to source, and expensive to buy. Some of the later models (including the 545B and 547) have an EHT transformer that is prone to failure - it can be re-wound, but it will cost you $50 (more if your outside the USA). A lot of the later, high speed units (547, 585, 453, 454 etc), as well as some of the faster plugins (1S1, 1S2, and some of the 3 series timebases) have tunnel diode trigger circuits. These are excellent, fast, stable trigger circuits, but the tunnel diodes are now very rare and expensive. Having said that, I have several of these beasts (535A, 545A & B, 547, 585, 561, 564 and 564A), in various states of repair. The 535A gets used regularly, and is currently at work, as I needed a scope with a stable low frequency trigger, and a differential input - our modern Philips scopes don't like triggering at 25Hz! The 564 is a useful analogue storage unit, though it only has a 10MHz bandwidth. The 547 is a good 50MHz scope (with the right plug-in), and the 585 should go to 100MHz (but only for the first 5 minutes after calibration, 85MHz is more like it - still not bad for an all valve scope!). They are all good scopes to use, but you do need to understand them and play with them before you try to do serious work, the have lots interesting little idiosynchrasies. Jim. Please see our website the " Vintage Communication Pages" at WWW.G1JBG.CO.UK

21 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

WTB: PDP-8/A programmer's panel

by charlesmorris＠direcway.com

Looking for the programmer's panel (the one with the octal keypad and display) for a PDP-8/A. thanks Charles

21 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

And $500 gets you...

by marvin＠rain.org

Scott Stevens said: > > Remember, eBay all started because of Pez dispenser collecting. Regular ISTR that this is not true; that story was created for marketing purposes with no basis in fact.

21 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

GW-Basic

by paul-pentecost7＠juno.com

I am looking for the origional GW-Basic Compiler what would you like in trade I do have a great deal in my research Archives here. Dr. Pentecost paul-pentecost7 at juno.com

21 years, 4 months

13
19
0 0

IBM SYSTEM 34

by kenziem＠sympatico.ca

I have been contacted by someone who has " two working IBM System 34 1980 vintage mainframes. Complete with all documentation and operator console." There is no dock, but the units are on casters and will roll up the loading ramp of a uhaul truck or similar. He wants them to go to a good home otherwise I will have to send them to a metal recycler for crushing. They are located in Ottawa Canada. For anyone needing a reminder of what these look like you can look here http://www.chd.dyndns.org/IBM/ -- Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600

21 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Navtel 9460 Protocol Analyzer info?

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Allison" <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> > >>Subject: Re: Navtel 9460 Protocol Analyzer info? >> From: Scott Stevens <chenmel at earthlink.net> >> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:50:15 -0500 >> >>> >>> How about one Z8530? :-) [it's a DUART, for the Zilog-impaired] >>> >> >>The 8530 is a useful part for dedicated purposes, but isn't it severely >>bandwidth cramped? I am thinking that it's the serial chip in the > >Nope, it's a 2mb/s part thats what the DMA is for. Even the Z80 dart >a earlier part was good for more than 800kb/s. > >>Sparcstations, correct me if I'm wrong. A few years ago I was pondering >>making a 'dialup connecting system with NAT server' out of a >>SparcStation Classic (the little lunchbox type Sparc). I discovered >>quickly that the serial ports on the Sparc are VERY speed constrained >>because of the 8530 chip. It would have been impossible to connect my >>USB Courier V-everything modem to it at, say 57,600 baud, because the >>8530 just plain won't go that fast. > >That was implmentation not the part. > >Allison Hi As I recall it was the selection of the crystal frequency. Dwight

21 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Not quite tubes... but still....

by jeff＠selectcomputer.net

I hope this is Davids address, i was reading some old information in a news group and i wanted to let you know that i run across all types of older computer equipment on a daily basis, and i deal with 20-30 different scrap dealers as well, so anything you need cplease contact me iit would help to even send a wish list and feel free to give out my contact info to anyone that may need my help. best regards, Jeff Silverman Select Computer Technology Inc. 774 Charcot Ave, San Jose, Ca 95131 Tel: 408-944-9475 Fax: 408-944-9476

21 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

Navtel 9460 Protocol Analyzer info?

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

One use of a protocol analyzer. In one of my previous lives I worked for AT&T Western Electric. I arrived just as Ma Bell and the Babies were splitting, around 1983-1984. We used a protocol analyzer all the time when troubleshooting our Gerber photo plotter. The Gerber plotter used a series of collimated apertures to generate lines in the photoresist of master circuit masks. We were making masks for circuits and the plotter would have issues with some of the plots we generated. The Plotter ran in a dark room over a granite table to make the master mask. One problem was that occasionally on very long lines the plotter had timing issues. We found that plotting several shorter lines worked better. Also we had problems when drawing "circles" which were actually many sided polygons. We used a HP protocol analyzer and found that we could create and try different sets of test cases very rapidly. We would also store up the entire set of plot commands and replay them trying different permutations. We generated the production plot commands using a "C" program on an AT&T 3B2 or on one of our PDP-11/70's. All of our production systems were dual PDP-11/70's. Each unit had its own pair of disks and a connection to a shared dual ported drive that we used as a swap drive for backups. We could tweak commands using the protocol analyzer, change plot line widths, plotter speed, and select a different aperture, and modify acceleration and deceleration rates. Kind of like playing with HPGL commands. I can't remember if I went to the week long class to learn how to operate the unit. I know that Western Electric was big on training classes. Mike

21 years, 4 months

1
0
0 0

XEROX 820 CP/M PRIMER INFO PROCESSOR MANUAL

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

Somebody needs to buy this and scan it and post it. <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5184646760 &rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW> Joe

21 years, 4 months

2
2
0 0

Navtel 9460 Protocol Analyzer info?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

>Subject: Re: Navtel 9460 Protocol Analyzer info? > From: Scott Stevens <chenmel at earthlink.net> > Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:50:15 -0500 > >> >> How about one Z8530? :-) [it's a DUART, for the Zilog-impaired] >> > >The 8530 is a useful part for dedicated purposes, but isn't it severely >bandwidth cramped? I am thinking that it's the serial chip in the Nope, it's a 2mb/s part thats what the DMA is for. Even the Z80 dart a earlier part was good for more than 800kb/s. >Sparcstations, correct me if I'm wrong. A few years ago I was pondering >making a 'dialup connecting system with NAT server' out of a >SparcStation Classic (the little lunchbox type Sparc). I discovered >quickly that the serial ports on the Sparc are VERY speed constrained >because of the 8530 chip. It would have been impossible to connect my >USB Courier V-everything modem to it at, say 57,600 baud, because the >8530 just plain won't go that fast. That was implmentation not the part. Allison

21 years, 4 months

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ASCII art spam

by tomj＠wps.com

Spammers have "invented" ASCII art. There's three curious things about this. One, it of course gets through text-matching filters. Two, it retroactively ruinates real ASCII art (if this catches on, seems most unlikely). Three, is there a drawing program for this? Tiny fragment follows: ., ,; .r, @nt psx tma jn ym, Bwg pgB WrW ihutqnb: ilnqcWlh Woytvu @fcajiS bu tn ves jx qo. Wka. ckt rkb bw; @qS lqc osq WsW 8kdhxu: so sr WgZ Zmfqhs@ jt .je WaW ywW:: um, ap go WoW svh,i 0oW ScokmS WvW oq so huZ rim WkW pnB 0uZ pjvf caq yxdjqotew murWhcoo abl rydgadhfq0 , ,:;i : jf , ,;i .: Ztc jpr nwrls.

21 years, 4 months

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plastic "push rivets"??

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Adrian Graham" <witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > >> I'd recommend others check out this places' online catalog. >> As I was skimming through it, they seem to have a TON of >> various connectors, fasteners, etc. that I always thought >> would be impossible to find. They seem to have it all. >> >> And for the record, these are called "Plunger-Head Captive >> Fastners" :) > >Are these the same fasteners used on the likes of the VT1xx, Sinclair ZX80 >and Jupiter Ace? I've been occasionally looking for spares for a while >now.... > >cheers > Hi I think you are talking about the ones on page 3110. Come on, as Sellam would say, "are you web impaired". Just bring up the web page and look for your self. Geesh! Dwight

21 years, 4 months

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plastic "push rivets"??

by technobug＠comcast.net

Jay asked: > I'm not sure what these things are called... but I need some. I'm > calling them plastic "push rivets", where a plastic plunger pushes > through a collar with 3 or 4 plastic legs. These legs break off. > > All the ones I've seen so far are a pretty common size. However, the > ones I need two of at the moment are slightly smaller than that. > Specifically, these are the two plastic push rivets from an HP 264X > terminal that hold the metal cover over the CRT. > > Anyone ever find a source for these? Both my local electronics places > came up empty. > > Regards, > > Jay West There are many plastics companies out there with variations of these thingies (e.g. <http://www.richco-inc.com/> - browse for rivets, screws, nuts... On the eastern side of the pond check out <http://www.heyco.co.uk/products.asp?group=BDD>). I've always had luck scrounging samples from the companies when I've need only a few of an item. CRC

21 years, 4 months

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For The PDP-8 Folks

by djg＠drs-c4i.com

> Do you have any photos on your site of the innards of your AX08? I'm > curious what modules go into it. > If you click on the unit in the picture on my home page or the link at the bottom it will bring you to http://www.pdp8.net/ax08/ax08.shtml which has the modules listed and pictures. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. Have any PDP-8 stuff you're willing to part with?

21 years, 4 months

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"Antique" Apple II e Computer, Manuals, Books

by jesnyder＠iastate.edu

Greetings While doing some housecleaning, I re-discovered an old Apple II e computer (with monitor, disk drive, and keyboard), and a big box of software, manuals, and books for it. I am not a home computer hobbyist (just a computer user) and have no use for it, but it would seem a shame to just throw all the stuff into the dumpster. I am not really trying to sell it or anything, just see that it gets to someone who is interested in it. How can I find if there is someone interested in it, who I could give it to? Thanks for your help, John jesnyder at iastate.edu (515)-294-4312 (university) (515)-232-8824 (home)

21 years, 4 months

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AVAILABLE: IBM PC (mdl 5150) w/mon and kb, IBM PS/30 (mdl 30) w/mon and kb

by Fred.van.Kempen＠microwalt.nl

Probably don't wanna ship em, or at least not too far. --fred

21 years, 4 months

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plastic "push rivets"??

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

I'm not sure what these things are called... but I need some. I'm calling them plastic "push rivets", where a plastic plunger pushes through a collar with 3 or 4 plastic legs. These legs break off. All the ones I've seen so far are a pretty common size. However, the ones I need two of at the moment are slightly smaller than that. Specifically, these are the two plastic push rivets from an HP 264X terminal that hold the metal cover over the CRT. Anyone ever find a source for these? Both my local electronics places came up empty. Regards, Jay West

21 years, 4 months

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Navtel 9460 Protocol Analyzer info?

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Scott Stevens" <chenmel at earthlink.net> > >On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 01:02:47 +0200 >Tore S Bekkedal <toresbe at ifi.uio.no> wrote: > >> On Tue, 2005-04-12 at 20:46 -0500, Scott Stevens wrote: >> >> > > I used a PC-based software scope that worked fairly well. And >> > > yes, it was a definite must-have for any serious serial-based >> > > development work. >> > > >> > >> > It's the perfect use for an older laptop that happens to have two >> > serial ports. There is software that then turns both serial RX >> > lines into inputs so you can monitor both directions of a full >> > duplex connection. It gets you a dual-channel 'serial scope.' >> > Unfortunately, there aren't that many laptops with two serial ports, >> > certainly none being made today. >> >> False :) >> >> USB to serial and PCMCIA to serial exist, and they're cheap, >> especially the USB job. >> >> Of course, the laptop would have to be relatively modern, say a >> Pentium I. >> > >My Pentium I laptop, a very mainstream Toshiba model, doesn't have USB. >A fact that bugs me fairly often. > >And anyway, for a 'serial analyzer' which is probably going to run some >ancient DOS program if it's analyzing conventional serial traffic, some >old 486 laptop (or a 386SX) is probably up to snuff, and will cost less >than said USB to serial or PCMCIA to serial adapter. Plus it's then >'sanctioned' on-topic hardware for this list (kinda). And aren't (at >least some of us) all about practical use as well as fooling around with >old gear? I'd hate to think some of the old stuff isn't still useful in >a practical sense. (not gonna wire two 6402 UARTS to my SYM-1 and make >it a serial analyzer on principle, though) A true analyser also measure disortion and levels. Dwight

21 years, 4 months

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Navtel 9460 Protocol Analyzer info?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

>Subject: Re: Navtel 9460 Protocol Analyzer info? > From: Scott Stevens <chenmel at earthlink.net> >And anyway, for a 'serial analyzer' which is probably going to run some >ancient DOS program if it's analyzing conventional serial traffic, some >old 486 laptop (or a 386SX) is probably up to snuff, and will cost less >than said USB to serial or PCMCIA to serial adapter. Plus it's then >'sanctioned' on-topic hardware for this list (kinda). And aren't (at >least some of us) all about practical use as well as fooling around with >old gear? I'd hate to think some of the old stuff isn't still useful in >a practical sense. (not gonna wire two 6402 UARTS to my SYM-1 and make >it a serial analyzer on principle, though) Actually I use a SIIG3000 386 running DOS as it's small brick of a system and for the ability to listen. To inject into the line it's fairly trivial to make an RS232 level OR gate! For general listening MY VT320 in display controls mode does well enough. Allison

21 years, 4 months

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SYM-1 vs KIM-1 (was Re: MOS Kim-1 Any idea of it's worth/value?)

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> > >On 4/13/05, Dwight K. Elvey <dwight.elvey at amd.com> wrote: >> There were actually two S-100 bus extensions on ebay recently. >> There was the one that was stated as such and there was one >> that was described as a controller for a floppy drive and drive >> ( I forget which machine it was stated as being for, SYM1, KIM1 >> or R65 ). > >Hmm... sorry I missed them. > >> I do have a card that was intended to be used with the SYM-1 to >> drive floppies. When I got it, it was missing the code ROM and >> a data bus buffer. I've since located the code but the buffer chip >> has been a problem. It is one of those oddball national chips >> that can not be easily replaces by a '245 :( > >What's the part number? I might be able to help (I have tubes of >8641s, for example). > >-ethan > Hi I'm looking for a DP8303 but with some software changes I could most likely get a DP8304 to work. Dwight

21 years, 4 months

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SYM-1 vs KIM-1 (was Re: MOS Kim-1 Any idea of it's worth/value?)

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> > >On 4/13/05, Dwight K. Elvey <dwight.elvey at amd.com> wrote: >> There were actually two S-100 bus extensions on ebay recently. >> There was the one that was stated as such and there was one >> that was described as a controller for a floppy drive and drive >> ( I forget which machine it was stated as being for, SYM1, KIM1 >> or R65 ). > >Hmm... sorry I missed them. ---snip--- I found it, it was for the AIM65. The number was 5178816716. You'd have gotten the s-100 plus a disk setup. I was going to bid but it was already out of my budget when I saw it. Dwight

21 years, 4 months

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SYM-1 vs KIM-1 (was Re: MOS Kim-1 Any idea of it's worth/value?)

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> > >On 4/12/05, Scott Stevens <chenmel at earthlink.net> wrote: >> Being the 'root for the underdog' sort of person, I'd say 'Synertec rulez, MOS sux' > >Well... since I _have_ a SYM-1, and had the books for it many, many >years prior to locating the computer (like 20 years earlier), I'm >pretty fond of the SYM-1. I also like the fact that the SYM-1 does >_not_ use mask programmed parts (but the KIM-1 does). Other than >that, they are really about the same machine. From a programming >standpoint, I am unaware of any significant differences. I know they >could share peripherals. > >Speaking of peripherals, I remember lots of ads back in the day, >including one for an S-100 chassis for the SYM/KIM. I'd love to see >schematics for that, especially since if I ever have one, I'll >probably have to make my own rather than find one in the wild. I have >a few S-100 cards now (something I didn't have back in my PET days), >and it might be fun to do some driver coding for interesting things. Hi There were actually two S-100 bus extensions on ebay recently. There was the one that was stated as such and there was one that was described as a controller for a floppy drive and drive ( I forget which machine it was stated as being for, SYM1, KIM1 or R65 ). > >I _do_ have (somewhere) the stuff relevant to hooking Commodore IEC >peripherals (1541, 1520, 1526...) to a SYM. That's another thing that >would be fun to implement... disks and files on a 6502 SBC. I do have a card that was intended to be used with the SYM-1 to drive floppies. When I got it, it was missing the code ROM and a data bus buffer. I've since located the code but the buffer chip has been a problem. It is one of those oddball national chips that can not be easily replaces by a '245 :( If I ever get one, I should be able to bring up the original SYM DOS that was really limited. Still, it would be fun. Dwight > >So many 6502 projects, so little time. > >-ethan > >

21 years, 4 months

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Navtel 9460 Protocol Analyzer info?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

>Subject: Re: Navtel 9460 Protocol Analyzer info? > From: "Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org> >Someday I'll pick up a "datascope" (aka serial protocol analyzer) cheap. I >did a lot of serial communications programming in a prior life, and >absolutely lived with a datascope. Not sure of the brand, but I remember is >was blue. No keyboard in the real sense, but a data entry pad on the front. >It was the most incredibly useful thing... you could program it to watch for >a particular sequence of ascii characters, then start capturing data. One >button would flip the display between ascii/ebcdic, hex, binary.. and it had >a dual display mode where it showed transmit on top of the line and receive >on the bottom of the line. It was a godsend. It had a breakout box built >into it, could buffer to floppy, etc. It could also do sync & async. I happen to have a Atlantic Research Inc, serial datascope. It contains several boards [std bus z80, rom/ram card, CRT5027 based crt controller Card] however no manual. Someday I'll track down at least a schematic and fix the CRT. The boards say T-bar on them so the instument may even be from another company with the ACI label. It would be fun to get it operational. Allison

21 years, 4 months

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Apollo 340 machines (Manchester uni, UK)

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

Chap at Manchester uni has three Apollo 340 machines (plus assorted spares by the sounds of it) which are heading to the skip today. I've been trying to save these for a couple of weeks but it's just too far away for anyone at the museum to make a dedicated trip to collect them, and none of our people get up to that part of the country very often. Maybe someone local can rescue them instead (or even can hold them on our behalf for a bit!) Shout if so anyway and I can give you contact details - maybe they can be held in a room somewhere for a few days if someone's definitely coming to pick them up. These are early Apollos so it'd be nice to save at least one (earliest ones we have are DN3500 and DN3000 machines) cheers Jules

21 years, 4 months

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ebay score

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Bill Sudbrink" <wh.sudbrink at verizon.net> > >woodelf wrote: >> >> Bill Sudbrink wrote: >> >> >OK Sellam, come clean. What have you managed to acquire? >> > >> The hard copy must be 3 or 4 lbs at least. Ducks and runs ... > >I have a good bit more than that! > >Three copy paper boxes full of documentation (appropriate because a lot >of the originally supplied OSI docs were just photocopies, stapled together) >and two more full of the "glossy" docs. The "glossy" docs being the extra >books that they sold, the SAMs manuals, the marketing lit that they also >sold >(did any other company sell their product description pamphlets?) and the >few >price sheets and pages that they gave away. I also have some product >descriptions and price sheets for a couple of OSI third party add-on >companies >in those boxes. > >> Ben alias woodelf >> PS. The impressive thing is that the people with the large computer >> collections have vast amounts of knowlage about the computers >> they have. Something that a average collector does not seem to have >> now days. > >Well, I like to think that I know a few things about OSI but I'll take >this opportunity to make a confession. I've said several times on this >list that you can't make a C4P into a C4P-MF by just adding a 470 board >to it. This was told to me in 1981 by a tech at a local OSI reseller, >The Math Box. I never checked it out for myself. Well, I just did (last >week) and (with OS-65D v3.3) it works just fine as far as I can tell. I >don't know if I misunderstood what the guy was telling me back then or if >he was just wrong. I'm thinking maybe that the 470s came adjusted from >the factory for 8 inch floppy timing and he was trying to tell me that >you couldn't use one with 5 1/4 inch drives without modifications. > >Glad to get that off my chest, >Bill > Hi Bill I'm glad also. Now I can sleep in peace. ;) I only have one of these machines but I forget which one. I just checked that it booted and haven't played with it since ( still on my to do list ). It is in a box with a keyboard attached as part of the box. Dwight

21 years, 4 months

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In Spamo Veritas

by jpl15＠panix.com

From a bit of spam that I deleted, but this caught my eye and I parsed it in terms of the List Topic - not what it actually refers to... Judgment Processor Does in have an 'impartiality pipeline'? Cheers John

21 years, 4 months

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Appraisals, value, the "Market" was Re: And $500 gets you...

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 02:45 PM 4/13/2005, vrs wrote: >I think it's like confusing Silicon Valley (or Portland, Oregon) with the >world :-). Maybe if I lived and worked where you do, I would see hundreds >of different venues doing a brisk business in this stuff. [...] >I think the term "the market" should refer to wherever the bulk of the >available stuff trades, (provided that the venues included are actually open >to the general public). There is no "there" there. There will always be tremendous variation in regional density of particular items, and this necessarily affects the price, which is why arbitrage flourishes on eBay. I've never seen most of these BBC micros in person, for example, but I'm sure they're quite common across the pond. There may have been a couple dozen Teraks at a half-dozen universities around the US, but they may not have ever existed in other areas of the country. You have to consider where the items were commonly sold as well as where they were commonly scrapped. - John

21 years, 4 months

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AVAILABLE: IBM PC (mdl 5150) w/mon and kb, IBM PS/30 (mdl 30) w/mon and kb

by James＠jdfogg.com

> Subject: AVAILABLE: IBM PC (mdl 5150) w/mon and kb,IBM PS/30 > (mdl 30) w/mon and kb > > Probably don't wanna ship em, or at least not too far. > > --fred I'd definitely be interested, but where are you?

21 years, 4 months

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AVAILABLE: IBM PC (mdl 5150) w/mon and kb,IBM PS/30 (mdl 30) w/mon and kb

by rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com

Where are they located? At 04:55 PM 4/13/05 +0200, you wrote: >Probably don't wanna ship em, or at least not too far. > >--fred > > >

21 years, 4 months

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MOS Kim-1 Any idea of it's worth/value?

by us21090＠yahoo.com

/* coming out of the shadows.... */ I'm planning on exhibiting my MOS Kim-1 at the Trenton Computer Festival (http://www.tcf-nj.org) and it occurred to me that I don't know what this computer is worth (whatever "worth" means). **** I'm not interested in selling it **** My Kim-1 works and is a Rev B MOS unit, with original blue-cover manuals (as well as home brew case and a home brew 2k memory expansion). The only data point I have is a recent ebay auction, where 2 working Kim-1s, nice enclosures, Kim Extender Interface, 4 memory cards, S100 breadboarding card, issues of "Micro", etc went for $642. The item description doesn't mention Rev #, or even whether its a MOS or Commodore (though the photo shows *white* manuals). So... roughly $300 for a Kim-1? Thanks! Scott __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

21 years, 4 months

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Ebay Poll, was Re: knowledgebase request

by marvin＠rain.org

I love the concept, and don't respect the people running it with the policies, distortions, and outright lies they seem comfortable with. Ebay has its uses, but the main one is to allow people who are either ignorant of or are too lazy to work with other distribution channels. Hmmm, maybe most of us :). I've gotten some great deals there but for the most part, there is too much "noise". I've sold some stuff at good prices there, but my belief is that it is for the most part, really only of value for higher end products ... say $100 plus. > > From: "Randy McLaughlin" <cctalk at randy482.com> > > Maybe we can have a poll to see who likes ebay , who hates ebay, and who > aren't sure :) > > Personally I like it, while it can drive up prices for things it has also > caused others to auction them instead of dumping them. > > Greed has saved many systems that would otherwise be scrapped. Of course > there are others that decide to part something out trying maximize the > all-mighty dollar.

21 years, 4 months

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Looking for TRS-80 manufacturing stats

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: RE: Looking for TRS-80 manufacturing stats > From: "Chandra Bajpai" <cbajpai at comcast.net> > >How about the Model I & Model III? > >I would think they would be 50K+ of each. > >-Chandra I was with RS back then and the M1 was over 250,000. At the end of the first year it was said by (might have been Phil North) We've sold more computers than all the big guys combined. Also watch the numbers. Tandy had nearly 8000 stores and if each sold five in a year that 40,000. They were and still are a volume based company. Allison

21 years, 4 months

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2 IBM 3277-2 available [EU]

by cbmpet2001＠yahoo.de

Dear IBM-Users, I have 2 3277 Model 2 (those with the larger screen) from late 70's available for free. The units should work (I couldn't test them so far) and are in very used condition. They come from scrap, I could not see them out there. I will look out for keyboards and am sure that I have at least two spare. Please note: These Units aren't really pretty to look at, but the logics seem complete. If someone want to have them it'd be best to pick them up at my office. I would ship, but thats a bit expensive. It's also possible that I get them into my car and drive a bit. If interested, please contact me by mail, best regards, Wolfgang Eichberger PS.: I have a small Siemens-Terminal (Serial - comes from a DEC P9000 Unix environment, complete) too that I am willing to part with. ==================================================== Ing. Wolfgang Eichberger cell.: +43-664-240-65-92 http://www.eichberger.org email: wolfgang at eichberger.org ---------------------------------------------------- Gruentalerstr. 24 - 4020 Linz ? AUSTRIA ====================================================

21 years, 4 months

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And $500 gets you...

by GFisher＠tristonecapital.com

>Message: 5 >Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:10:40 -0700 (PDT) >From: Vintage Computer Festival <vcf at siconic.com> >Subject: Re: And $500 gets you... >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0504121759100.14301-100000 at siconic.com> >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII >lots of stuff deleteted >I do a lot of behind the scenes research that does not get discussed here. >I talk to a lot of people: collectors, scrappers, surplus store owners, >etc. I stay in tune with the "market". >lots more stuff deleted As an economist who is also involved in the auction business (you wouldn't believe what we auction!), it seems to me that the debate is revolving around what the "market" really is. On one side are the ePayers who buy retail and on the other side are those like Sellam who are on the wholesale side of the market (not to imply that he is a dealer, but he sees things before they get to retail, from sources like: scrap dealers, institutions etc.) It is just like when you go to the auto dealer to find out what your trade-in is worth, he looks in his red/black/blue book and gives you what seems like a stupidly low price. Those prices often come from wholesale car auctions and reflect what the dealer could source cars for. He is not going to pay retail price as he wouldn't make any profit from it. That leaves you to sell your car privately if you want to get the "retail" price. But both the car dealer and you see a "market" from different points on a continuum. As I don't live in Silicon Valley or anywhere with a history of "high tech ", I can only use eBay to access the "market". If I did live there, I would have access to many more sources (that's why I'm going the the next VCF!) Conclusion, the market isn't just end users or middlemen, it's both, but they pay/get different prices! Gary Fisher E:gfisher at tristonecapital.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Unless otherwise stated, opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the author and are not endorsed by the author's employer.

21 years, 4 months

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Looking for TRS-80 manufacturing stats

by CCTalk＠catcorner.org

Anyone know an approximate number of units manufactured in the different models? I'm mostly interested in numbers for the following models: 100 200 4 (Gate Array) 12 16b Any guesses? Any authoritive answers Thanks, Kelly

21 years, 4 months

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knowledgebase request

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

I think Sellam (and others) should put together a quick article on appraisals (there is a section for that in the KnowledgeBase), so that the frequent "Ebay sucks/rocks" threads can be squelched once and for all ;) Jay West

21 years, 4 months

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If TMS9900 CPU on ebay, let me know. Thanks.

by vax9000＠gmail.com

Group, If there is TMS9900 CPU auction on ebay in the near future, please let me know. Thank you. cheers, vax, 9000

21 years, 4 months

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Navtel 9460 Protocol Analyzer info?

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

>> On 4/12/05, Vintage Computer Festival <vcf at siconic.com> wrote: >> > I can't remember what the software I used was called, but I think I still >> > have it somewhere and can check. It came with a special double-headed >> > cable though, and unless that cable was just a simple Y-split, I don't >> > know if making one from scratch would be feasible. >> >> The physical cable used with HP line analysers is a simple Y-split - >> 25-position ribbon cable, two DB25F and one DB25M (or the other way >> round... can't quite remember). You can wedge the cable between two >> devices, then attach the free end to the HP pod (or just plug a DB25 >> cable right from one unit direct to the pod if you are using the HP to >> originate or consume bits) >> >> What I'm not sure of is if the HP pod has anything special in the way >> of drivers/receivers to keep from loading the line as it monitors >> things. I could open up a pod and see what's inside... > >I have limited experience with this as I only tried it once, but when I >did I noticed that either one or the other computer was greedy and took >all the bits for itself, and the other computer didn't get any signal, so >I always assumed you needed some sort of "special" cable in order to split >an RS-232 signal. I have a couple of simple serial datascope packages in my Labtools ... I don't supply cables, I just give details on how to make them. Basically, there are two sets of signals to monitor, one going from DTE -> DCE, and one going from DCE -> DTE ... What the "Y" cable does is simply connect the DTE generated signals to the input signals on one COM port, and the DCE generated signals to the input signals on the another COM port. The software reads the two com ports and displays the two signals paths in a standard dual/split line format, with DTE signals on one line, and DCE signals on the other. (Since PCs are DTE's, the input signals to the COM ports are the DCE lines at the PCs serial connector). The DTE signals (outputs) from the PC COM ports are not connected, so the PC does not drive either side ... it just passivly monitors the traffic on the line. For short runs at the speeds commonly handled by a PC serial port, the extra loading of the passive receiver is usually not a problem. One limitation of this approach is that the PC cannot interact with the devices. Some stand-alone/higher-end scopes feature simulation, injection and other features which require that they be able to transmit on the line in specific circumstances these usually have their own set of line drivers and receivers, and act as a simple repeater during passive monitoring. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years, 4 months

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If TMS9900 CPU on ebay, let me know. Thanks.

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: If TMS9900 CPU on ebay, let me know. Thanks. > From: 9000 VAX <vax9000 at gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 19:49:19 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Group, > If there is TMS9900 CPU auction on ebay in the near future, please >let me know. Thank you. > >cheers, >vax, 9000 Looking for just the chip or a board level product? Why are you looking for one and how much are they going for these days? Allison

21 years, 4 months

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Navtel 9460 Protocol Analyzer info?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Navtel 9460 Protocol Analyzer info? > From: Steve Robertson <steerex at mindspring.com> > >> >I happen to have a Atlantic Research Inc, serial datascope. It contains >> >several boards [std bus z80, rom/ram card, CRT5027 based crt controller Card] >> >however no manual. Someday I'll track down at least a schematic and fix >> >the CRT. The boards say T-bar on them so the instument may even be from >> >another company with the ACI label. It would be fun to get it operational. > I looked through my STD BUS docs but could not find any docs for that >particular CRT controller card. If I find them, I'll let you know. > >See ya, >SteveRob oops a mind melt. I confused a rather decrepit ARI data monitor thats likely beyond hope (dropped from height) with the one I need schematics on. The one I'm looking for data about is a T-bar Explorer pn5915-10 with a 9/1982 date. The control logic inside is three STD bus cards. It's 5.25"hx8.5"wx15"D. It has no data storage tape or floppy. Allison

21 years, 4 months

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Unix on old-ish machines - advice sought

by stanb＠dial.pipex.com

Hi, I'd like to get a straight (ie no X) Unix running on some sort of older, but not necessarily ancient, hardware. My Micro-11/73 is not really suitable, and PDP-11s that are seem to be a bit thin on the ground over here in the UK. I've seen a few Vaxen and MicroVaxen on the market lately so my thoughts are turning in that direction. I know a few people here run such machines and I'm seeking advice on the best machine to look for and, at the risk of starting a religious war, the best unix to run on it... :-) TIA... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb at dial.pipex.com The future was never like this!

21 years, 4 months

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Datapoint 1550

by birs23＠zeelandnet.nl

Does anyone have information about a Datapoint 1550 ? And perhaps a picture of one ? Thanks, Stefan. ------------------------------------------------------- http://www.oldcomputercollection.com

21 years, 4 months

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Datapoint 1550

by rimmer＠xs4all.nl

Does anyone have information about a Datapoint 1550 ? And perhaps a picture of one ? Thanks, Stefan.

21 years, 4 months

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Intel offers $10, 000 for Moore's Law article Firm seeks pristine copy of founde

by Ladyelec＠aol.com

<A HREF="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/04/1…"> </A>I<A HREF="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/04/1…">ntel offers $10,000 for Moore's Law article / Firm seeks pristine copy of founder's prescient words</A> <A HREF="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/04/1…"> </A> Intel offers $10,000 for Moore's Law article Firm seeks pristine copy of founder's prescient words Intel Corp. lives by Moore's Law, but it apparently doesn't have a copy of the magazine in which the law was first laid down. The Santa Clara chip giant has posted a $10,000 bounty on eBay for someone who can provide a pristine April 19, 1965, copy of Electronics magazine. That issue of the magazine contained an article by Intel co-founder Gordon Moore that described how the number of components on integrated circuits was doubling every year. The article became the foundation for his famed dictum. "We have photocopies of the article but not the actual issue of the magazine," an Intel spokesman said. "Gordon doesn't have it and the Intel Museum doesn't either." Electronics magazine went out of business several years ago. Intel turned to the online auction site on Monday, posting a message on eBay's Want It Now page offering $10,000 for a copy of the magazine in mint condition. (The company may buy more than one copy but at a lower price. Intel employees and their families are ineligible.) Moore's Law -- which has since been revised to estimate that the number of transistors doubles every 18 months -- has been the cornerstone for the information technology industry for decades as it has defined how products can simultaneously drop in price while improving in performance. This has created a situation in which users upgrade well before their equipment breaks, a boon for the industry. Despite its historical significance, the article at the time wasn't considered a monument. "I didn't think it would be especially accurate," Moore said in a recent interview. Moore, 76, was born in San Francisco and received a bachelor's degree in chemistry from UC Berkeley. He was research director at the Fairchild Semiconductor division of Fairchild Camera and Instrument Corp. when he wrote the Electronics magazine article in 1965, and in 1968 he co-founded Intel. Chronicle staff contributed to this report. Page D - 1 URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/04/12/BU…

21 years, 4 months

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ASCII art spam

by cb＠mythtech.net

>> The next generation of spam filters needs to start doing spell >> checking. If more then a certain number of words don't match the >> dictionary file, then it is rejected. > >Men det har problemer med annen spraaker. Si le dictionnaire ne >contient pas la langue dans laquelle le courriel est ecrit.... You people REALLY need to start paying attention to emoticons and learn to read the sarcasm between the lines. :-p The point was a joke. Collateral damage causing loss of email with spelling errors was supposed to be a good thing. Following the same JOKE logic, loss of any email that I can't understand (including other languages, mathematical formulas, or most everything Tony Duell talks about since it all goes way over my head), may also be good thing. ;-) Besides have you interacted with anyone under 18 via email recently? Maybe filtering on spelling errors IS a good thing! =:-O :-) (watch out for those emoticons, they are the only way in email to point out jokes and sarcasm). -ps: this email was spell checked by Claris Emailer 2.0v3 that doesn't know "email", "spam", "emoticons", "Duell", "ps", and "2.0v3" are all acceptable. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

21 years, 4 months

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Texas Instruments TMS2600

by marvin＠rain.org

I took a look in a 1977 IC Master and they show the TMS2600 as discontinued. However they show alternate sources as an AMI S8773 and National MM4230 and MM5230. BUT, the First Edition of "The Integrated Circuits Catalog for Design Engineers" from TI has the TI datasheet and specs starting at page 14-139. Pinout: 1 - A3 13 - A9 2 - A2 14 - CS 3 - A1 15 - MC 4 - B1 16 - Vgg 5 - B2 17 - A8 6 - B3 18 - A7 7 - B4 19 - A6 8 - B5 20 - A5 9 - B6 21 - A4 10 - B7 22 - NC 11 - B8 23 - NC 12 - Vss 24 - Vdd A - input B - output MC - Mode Control CS - Chip Select Vdd - drain power supply Vgg - Ground power supply Vss - Substrate Supply voltage Vdd - -12V nominal Supply voltage Vgg - -24V nominal Input chip select logic 1 - -12V nominal Input chip select logic 0 - 0V nominal input pulse width - 650 ns minimum "A logical 0 on the chip select input will cause the outputs to become open circuits on the "single-ended" (open drain) type output buffer and will cause the outputs to go to Vdd on the double-ended (push-pull) type output buffer. > I've recently acquired an old Wang 144T programmable electronic calculator. > Early '70's technology. Uses a lot of 7400-series TTL, along with some > older > DTL. It is a microcoded machine, using a Texas Instruments TMS 2600 2K-bit > Mask Programmed ROM for the microcode store. I want to try to capture the > content > of the ROM, but I've not been able to find a pinout and specifications for > it anywhere.

21 years, 4 months

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For The PDP-8 Folks

by djg＠drs-c4i.com

>> AX08... the closeup looks like Negibus notation. Can't tell much more >> than that from the limited pictures. > > >I've been curious about the AX08; maybe someone will buy it and scan it. >The price is down in the impulse buy range, so there is hope for the auction >:-). > I have a bid in and I will be scanning it and putting it on my site if I win. Since I have an AX08 with a fault in it I would really like to win it. I had gotten a copy of the manual which is on my site but the schematics were copied folded so were unuseable. I was unable to get a good copy of them. I got the point plot working but not the A/D. Thanks, David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. Have any PDP-8 stuff you're willing to part with?

21 years, 4 months

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Intel offers $10,000 for Moore's Law magazine

by news＠computercollector.com

http://news.com.com/Intel+offers+10%2C000+for+Moores+Law+magazine/2100-1006_ 3-5663120.html?tag=cd.top ----------------------------------------- Evan Koblentz's personal homepage: www.snarc.net *** Tell your friends about the (free!) Computer Collector Newsletter - 700 readers and no spam / Publishes every Monday / Write for us! - Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all - W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news at computercollector.com

21 years, 4 months

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ASCII art spam

by micheladam＠theedge.ca

----- Original Message ----- From: chris <cb at mythtech.net> Date: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 9:56 am Subject: Re: ASCII art spam > The next generation of spam filters needs to start doing spell > checking. > If more then a certain number of words don't match the dictionary > file, > then it is rejected. > > This does double duty, helps filter out spam using letter > substitution, > and also helps filter out people who can't be bothered with spell > check > (including all those teens that type like they are chatting via > text > messaging). :-) > > -chris > <http://www.mythtech.net> > > Dit is waar het... uiteenvalt C'est o? il tombe en morceaux... Dieses ist, wohin es auseinander... f?llt ???? ????? ???? ?????????... Ci? ? dove cade a parte... ???... ????????????? Isto ? o lugar aonde cai distante... ??? ???? ??? ?????????? ?????... Aqu? es adonde baja aparte... This is where it falls apart... Michel Adam

21 years, 4 months

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FW: IBM Series 1

by h.j.stegeman＠hccnet.nl

Hi Kelly, > I have the chance to rescue and IBM Series/1 minicomputer. Any good > references out there for these? Anyone on the east coast interested in > rescuing one? It includes an 8" and a 14" winchester drive in racks. > > Kelly Is it possible for you to check if this source has _any_ IBM System/7 items ? (S/7 was the pre-succesor of the Series/1) See http://home.hccnet.nl/h.j.stegeman/ Regards Henk

21 years, 4 months

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LaserWriter Plus

by cb＠mythtech.net

>My main printer is a LJ 4L. Not PS, which is why the LaserWriter >interests me. Would it maybe be easier to get a postscript simm for the 4L? I don't know what they go for, but I bought two for LaserJet 4's (not L, one was a 4 the other a 4 Plus), on ebay for around $10 each (I bought them about a year apart from each other). If you do that, you get the newer, faster, printer... and only one printer to deal with rather than two. -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>

21 years, 4 months

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CI accessories available

by pt＠new.rr.com

Two DEC star coupler panels (removed from SC008 cabinet) with jumper cables and some terminators, also a box of CI cable -the nice thin kind, not the evil thick variety. In NE Wisconsin, needs to be claimed by Friday. Paul

21 years, 4 months

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credits for knowledgebase faq entries

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Oh, by the way - some may consider this not terribly important, but I like to be a stickler for such things. I put some initial entries into the ClassicCmp knowlegebase straight from the FAQ. I also contributed an article or two of my own. The entries that I took from the old ClassicCmp FAQ were posted with an author of "Jay West (FAQ)", and the ones I wrote myself have an author of just "Jay West". In the original FAQ, there was a list of credits to people who came up with some of that information. I would like to put a "Credits" link on the knowledge base website, that lists and thus gives credit to these people. I am not an HTML programmer, I know barely enough to change single lines of existing HTML. Would someone with basic HTML skills be willing to create a credits hyperlink on the knowledgebase site, that presents a separate page listing those people? If so, please contact me off-list. Regards, Jay West

21 years, 4 months

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Today's TRS-80 haul

by GFisher＠tristonecapital.com

>Message: 25 >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 23:09:45 -0400 >From: "Mike" <dogas at bellsouth.net> >Subject: Re: Today's TRS-80 haul >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Message-ID: <004301c53f0d$25882010$68db3fd0 at r2p0s6> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> I'm glad you saved them. I can't imagine there are too many around. I >> have a Model 12 that has been "officially" upgraded to a Model 16B. Its >> an interesting mix - Model 12 look, Model 16B workings. Last I checked >> it wouldn't boot so that's a job for a rainy day on the bench. >> >I drove from Jacksonville, Fl to Chicago, IL a few years agi for a >station-wagon full of 6000, 16, and 16b systems, 8 in all, with one odd one >if I recall, and some xenix and other software too. There was one >beautifully complete 6000 with xenix, internal and external HDs. I've >peddled a few of them including that one, and I know some need work, or >could provide some needed parts if anyone's really stuck or can pick up >personally or by proxy.. No extra keyboards though, two were borrowed and >haven't returned yet.... > I have one model 12, and a II or two (my main love on the big TRS80 >side)...Hmmm, also got a few big boxes of those big brown 8" software >manuals awaitng adpotion or tradeout.somehow... >;) >- Mike: dogas at bellsouth.net It's nice to see that there are other fans of the big silver (and white) TRS-80 boxes out there. I ran a bulletin board with a Mod II for a couple of years in the mid '80s, and despite the fact that it was noisy and clunky, it never crashed or went down. I've got one that I fixed up with a good 8" disk drive, have another that needs some work, have the disk expansion box and a 15Mb hard disk that is waiting to go on line. Have some basic big brown manuals but am always looking to adopt or trade more ;-) Also looking for newer versions of TRSDOS 2 or II as all I have is 2a and I don't think it handles hard disks or conversion to 5.25 HD disks (want to do that so I don't have to listen to the 8 inchers spin all the time, boy were those Mod II's noisy!) GF Gary Fisher E:gfisher at tristonecapital.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Unless otherwise stated, opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the author and are not endorsed by the author's employer.

21 years, 4 months

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For The PDP-8 Folks

by bpettit＠ix.netcom.com

Some interesting items on eBay today for the PDP-8 enthusiast. Billy http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5185279053&… http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5185279019&… http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5185279027&…

21 years, 4 months

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LOL ... Scooped by Patrick himself!

by news＠computercollector.com

Thanks to a glitch in my list management software. Doh! Anyway, the actual classiccmp news should shake things up around here. :) ----------------------------------------- Evan Koblentz's personal homepage: www.snarc.net *** Tell your friends about the (free!) Computer Collector Newsletter - 700 readers and no spam / Publishes every Monday / Write for us! - Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all - W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news at computercollector.com

21 years, 4 months

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Exciting news about ClassicCmp and the Vintage Computer Festival

by news＠computercollector.com

Hi cctalk'ers, I don't usually send list-wide updates, but this is a special case. Without further comment, here are two articles from this week's issue of Computer Collector Newsletter. - Evan ----------------------------------------- New: The ClassicCmp Knowledge Base An extensive knowledge base is being added to classiccmp.org, the web presence behind the popular cctalk and cctech mailing lists. Users will populate the database with their own submissions, such as system information, technical tips, and advice for finding, repairing, restoring, displaying, and storaging vintage computers. All entries will be moderated, but registration won't be required. The database will be searchable by category and keyword. The database is located at http://www.classiccmp.org/kb and an email interface is being developed. There are already some starter entries based on the mailing list FAQ and independent contributions. Comments to these entries are encouraged, although the knowledge base is meant to augment, not replace, the mailing lists. - Jay West, classiccmp.org moderator --------------------------------------- VCF changes and new shows being planned Changes at the Vintage Computer Festival are creating new regional editions, starting with VCF Midwest 1.0 next month. We reported on Jan. 24 that VCF Midwest 1.0 was tentatively planned for late May at Purdue University. The details we expected for the following issue didn't materialize, but now the weekend of May 28-29 is a near-certainty, show planner Patrick Finnegan said. Whether it's a one- or two-day event is not yet determined. It will be held at Purdue's Stewart Center. (We'll share more details here are soon as they are available.) VCF Midwest 2.0, in 2006, may be held in the St. Louis, Missouri area. VCF East 3.0, originally planned for this summer in the Boston area, probably will be delayed until spring 2006. It may be organized by MARCH - Mid-Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists - which is a new club based online at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/ . VCF Europa 6.0 remains unchanged. It will be held April 30-May 1 in the Munich, Germany area. See http://www.vcfe.org/E/ for details. Our own Sellam Ismail, who founded the VCF in 1997, will continue to personally run the main VCF event each fall in Silicon Valley. - Evan Koblentz, editor ----------------------------------------- Evan Koblentz's personal homepage: www.snarc.net *** Tell your friends about the (free!) Computer Collector Newsletter - 700 readers and no spam / Publishes every Monday / Write for us! - Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all - W: http://news.computercollector.com E: news at computercollector.com

21 years, 4 months

1
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IBM 2501 card punch offer/salvage

by mapleleafman＠gmail.com

HI folks, I got an email this morning offering this piece of IBM equipment, 2501 card punch. Generally I forward these emails to my own list of collectors but for this particular piece I decided it needed a more general audience because the unit is in Newfoundland. No roads to our newest province so container shipping is required. Here's the whole text of the original email : _ Do you know of anyone who may be interested in the above?. It is currently in storage (garage) in Newfoundland. 1970-1980's. 2501 Card Punch. Also have a humidity reader used in early days to measure humidity in computer rooms. Thanks Marie _ Marie's email is : mhussey at hfx.eastlink.ca The humidistat sounds smaller, at least! If this isn't worth salvaging for anyone in our world, Marie mentioned in her email that she would junk it and save a part for old times sake, as she used to work with it. Maybe someone could give her an idea of what part(s) would be either interesting for historical purposes or maybe to replace parts that they require and would be smaller to ship. Marie lives in Nova Scotia so she can't exactly duck out to the garage to have a looksee either. Contact her directly as I don't check this email as often as I probably should. Brian Mahoney _______________ The list I maintain is here: http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/ If you want to be on this list please email me at : antique101 at hotmail.com NOT to the list or this email. Say please and thank you and give me a good email and we'll get along famously! _______________

21 years, 4 months

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