- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by aek＠bitsavers.org

I've just put the service manual up for the disc assembly that Patrick wants to get rid of on http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dataDisc

21 years

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Floppy controller questions

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Floppy controller questions > From: Dave Dunfield <dave04a at dunfield.com> > Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:09:02 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >Now that I know the 765 better - makes perfect sense. This is a good example >of the problems I had with the NEC documention when I originally wrote the 6809 >driver (mid 80's - my first experience with the 765). There are very few >references to polled transfers. Under "READ DATA", the datasheet says: > >"After completion of the read operation from the current sector, the Sector Number >is incremented by one and the data from the next sector is read and output on the >data bus. This continued read function is called a Multi-Sector Read Operation. The >Read Data command may be terminated by the receipt of a Terminal Count signal. ..." Well I have a copy of the original jinglish manuals from my days as product engineer. After youve worked with a potload of the japanese/english translations your own English becomes polluted. Your then speak missing small bits in sentence. Sorry to those japanese speakers but, I was there and suffered. Anywho, there were other cultural things that made etting answers to ambigious or thinly worded explanations difficult. Often I'd end up in the lab testing "just to see what was the case.". As it turns out many engineers managed by inference to sort it out or by simply hacking (try and see) methodology and the Compupro DISK1 (and 1A) while DMA didn't use TC. Instead the driver programmed N and EOT to the sector desired. FYI: Another trick. Externall it's possible to tell DMA or other logic if the transfer will be read or write without using a IO port. The Write_enable (pin25) line to the drive can also be used to condition the IO direction. Compupro used this for their DMA hardware for set read from or write to memory. I'd figured this out when talking to RCA about 1802 hich has a DMA read and DMA write line. Using the WE line to conditionally gate one or the other made doing 1802 floppy DMA less complex. I may add that working with 765 you find thses and other things out. If you work with 179X or 177X there are a similar set of "things you learn" that allow you to exploit the device. Allison

21 years

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Found old NCR computer...need info/keyboard

by bbrown＠harpercollege.edu

I found what I believe to be an NCR Decision Mate V computer. 1 5.25 floppy drive and 1 hard drive. no docs, no keyboard, no disks. Does anyone have info on this computer and any idea how to get a keyboard for it? thanks! -Bob -- bbrown at harpercollege.edu #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace

21 years

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Floppy controller questions

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

>>I did polled drivers on the 09 and it worked well. One thing I did find was >>that I had to connect a select to the TC pin so that I could pulse it to end >>a transfer - I did not find a way to cleanly end a transfer in polled mode >>without TC. I can give you the 6809 driver code as well if you want it. > >There is a way to stop the transfer with out TC. When programming the FDC >command bytes for single sector transfer simply put that sector in as N and >also as EOT. Since the FDC stops reading at EOT it will stop after one sector. Now that I know the 765 better - makes perfect sense. This is a good example of the problems I had with the NEC documention when I originally wrote the 6809 driver (mid 80's - my first experience with the 765). There are very few references to polled transfers. Under "READ DATA", the datasheet says: "After completion of the read operation from the current sector, the Sector Number is incremented by one and the data from the next sector is read and output on the data bus. This continued read function is called a Multi-Sector Read Operation. The Read Data command may be terminated by the receipt of a Terminal Count signal. ..." Write Data has a similar statement. There is no mention whatever of the EOT parameter. The use of TC is the only means described under the READ DATA and WRITE DATA commands to terminate the transfer. There only mention of EOT is a definition in a different section, which reads: "EOT stands for the final Sector number on a Cylinder. During Read or Write operation FDC will stop data transfer after a sector is equal to EOT". I interpreted this as "this should always have the highest sector number on the cylinder" and was used only to guarantee that multi-sector reads stop at the end of the track (which I thought would be an error condition). So I tried what the docs indicated, hit TC and it worked. When I did the 765 drivers in ImageDisk, they use DMA, and TC is generated automaticlly by the DMA controller - I remember thinking "ah .. how nice - this is how they really intended the system to work" - It always bothered me that I needed an extra select to use it in polled mode. Thanks - this cleans up another little bit of the picture. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years

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Floppy controller questions

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Floppy controller questions > From: Dave Dunfield <dave04a at dunfield.com> > Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 22:22:53 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >>That's what I wanted. I don't have any 8" drives, so adding support for them >>is pointless. Ideally, I want a board that has a 6502-type interface on one >>side and a 34-pin IDC connector on the other, with support for most common FM >>and MFM 3.5" and 5.25" formats. > >>I managed to get DMA-mode transfers working, but never managed to get polled- >>mode or interrupt-mode transfers working. Guess I'll have to learn fast when >>I start writing code to drive the FDC... > >I did polled drivers on the 09 and it worked well. One thing I did find was >that I had to connect a select to the TC pin so that I could pulse it to end >a transfer - I did not find a way to cleanly end a transfer in polled mode >without TC. I can give you the 6809 driver code as well if you want it. There is a way to stop the transfer with out TC. When programming the FDC command bytes for single sector transfer simply put that sector in as N and also as EOT. Since the FDC stops reading at EOT it will stop after one sector. Allison

21 years

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Floppy controller questions

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

>Time to google for a Disk1A manual (and hope that it includes schematics)... I have the Disk1A manual on my site - and it does include schematics. Click on the "S100" header to S-100 machines, which will take you to a list of S-100 cards - the Disk1A (photo and manual) is there. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years

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Floppy controller questions

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Floppy controller questions > From: Philip Pemberton <philpem at dsl.pipex.com> > Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 00:46:29 +0100 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >In message <m1E7h9n-000IyXC at p850ug1> > ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > >> Also be aware that many HD-capcable 5.25" drives turn at 360 rpm all the >> time. Which means the data rate if you put a DD (or for that matter an >> SD) disk in them is 6/5 times what you'd get with that disk in a DD drive >> (which turns at 300 rpm). You may well need to provide a suitable clock >> for 300 kbps, for example. > >Ick. Time to find a 24MHz crystal oscillator :-/ >Divide by 3 gives 8MHz, div24 for 1MHz, div48 for 500kHz, div96 for 250kHz. >And none of those are powers of two. Yay. I think I'll just stick to 8MHz and >1M/500k write clocks. Unless you use a drive that spins faster then the 500khz rate is fine. >I still need to deal with the "only 16uS to grab a byte of data" issue. >That's going to be a major pain when the CPU is running at 2MHz... Thankfully >IDE/ATA is fairly speed independent. >I suppose I could use interrupt mode, and hijack the INT (or maybe the NMI) >vector whenever the FDD is being accessed. Yep, remember the worst case for "fast is 13us! I'd plan for that. Also the slow rates will give you nominal 32us (27us worst case). >Isn't learning fun? Beats boredom by miles. ;) >> data separators. And I've seen a board of logic (the original IBM >> controller, for example). But I've never seen a real 765 linked to an > >I really should try and get a copy of the IBM PC Technical Reference manuals >at some point. Oh the PC implmentations are generally the worst as a reference, they really represent a stripped to bare minimum specific for PC encironment. With just a bit more effort you can do something far more flexible than that. Or a S100 board like the Compupro Disk1A. I've done this at enough times to loose count on S100, multibus, ISA8 and 16 Z80 raw cpu bus (single board), 8085 single board, 8088 single board and even with an 8749. The Floppy side is largely done for you of you look at the app nots, existing board manuals and that one site some had a pointer to. > >> Unless you are using the original Sony 3.5" drives, which turn at 600 >> rpm, and thus use twice the data rate you might expect, 5.25" drives and >> 3.5? drives use the same data rates for the same modes. > >All new-ish PC-type floppy drives here. I don't think I've got any of the >original Sony drives - most of mine are MFD920s, with one or two MFD520s (I >prefer the 520s - they're jumperable for DS0 and ideal for RiscPCs). Some of >the Citizen drives that Acorn used are pretty well made, too - I've never >seen one that didn't work properly. Well, except for the one that some oik >(not me) shoved a mini-CD into. The MFD520 and 920 is good and for 5.25 I really like the teac FD55GFR as that will do most 40 and 80 track reads including 1.2m. If you intend to write honest 360k formats with 5.25" drives a FD55B is a good choice. There are other 5.25 drive that would make goood equivelents to both teacs. >> HD disks (1.2Mbyte, 1.44Mbyte respectively) in their approriate drives >> use the same data rates as 8". SD and DD disks are half of those rates >> _apart from the 360rpm issue I mentioned above). > >Easy way to solve the 360rpm issue: Find the SPEED_SEL pin on the motor >controller, lift the pin then wire it to the edge connector. Yes, saves pain. >> FWIW, 3" are the same as those too (there never was a HD 3" disk AFAIK). > >Heh. Amstrad 3" "indestructable" floppies. Those bring back some memories... >Mostly dealing with disintegrating drive belts. Only a problem if your doing them too. ;) Allison

21 years

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Apple //c available...

by zmerch＠30below.com

Today a lady called the store, asking if she could drop off an "older Macintosh computer," and when she showed up, what she had was an Apple //c w/PS, 9" (I'm guessing green phosphor) monochrome monitor, a Panasonic KXP1091 printer, and a Hotlink //c Printer Interface. It seems to have all (appropriate) cables available, but no software. It looks to be in very good shape - the case is not very yellowed at all for it's age, and no glaring scratches or anything. Very clean system. I can test the computer and monitor at least, as long as test == "Wow - it lights up!" -- if it's got a ROM-based DOS, I could see if it can format a floppy (I do have some DSDD 5.25" disks handy) if someone let's me know the commands... if it needs a system disk, tho, I don't have one, and the best I could do is "Wow - it lights up!" ;-) I don't have a problem parting out the system if someone needs something in particular. I can provide pictures if y'all are willing to wait to tomorrow (if it matters) I'm guesssssing it's a bog-standard //c, tho. I can also provide serial numbers, if that's a big deal. Buyer to pay for shipping and any packing materials that I have to buy to make it go away - I already own packing peanuts & bubblewrap, but if I gotta buy a box or two, *you* gotta buy a box or two... ;-) Priorities will go to: 1) whoever wants the monitor with the system - I can't throw them away anymore, and I don't want a 9" Apple monitor kicking around with no machine to hook it two, and... 2) whoever best describes (IMHO) why you *deserve* such a fine piece of computing history. ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers _??_ zmerch at 30below.com (?||?) If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead _)(_ disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.

21 years

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Floppy controller questions

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

>That's what I wanted. I don't have any 8" drives, so adding support for them >is pointless. Ideally, I want a board that has a 6502-type interface on one >side and a 34-pin IDC connector on the other, with support for most common FM >and MFM 3.5" and 5.25" formats. I did a fairly simple 765 based controller in my D6809 which does 5.25" DD disks (should work ok with 3.5" DD) - it has a 6809 bus on one side and a 34-pin connector on the other. It was designed mid-80's, and uses a 765, 9216, LS175, LS153, LS161, LS174, LS139 as well as floppy bus drivers/receivers, and a couple of LS04 gates and one LS00 gate borrowed from elsewhere in the system (The whole computer was one big wire-wrap board - you can see it on my site). I don't pretend it's the most efficient design, but it was (relatively) low parts count and worked well for me - you are welcome to it if you want it. >I managed to get DMA-mode transfers working, but never managed to get polled- >mode or interrupt-mode transfers working. Guess I'll have to learn fast when >I start writing code to drive the FDC... I did polled drivers on the 09 and it worked well. One thing I did find was that I had to connect a select to the TC pin so that I could pulse it to end a transfer - I did not find a way to cleanly end a transfer in polled mode without TC. I can give you the 6809 driver code as well if you want it. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years

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Game cartridge goes for over $500

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

I have been wanting one of these for awhile now but the price was always around $350 and was hoping by now it would have dropped. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8212869674

21 years

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Floppy controller questions

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Floppy controller questions > From: Philip Pemberton <philpem at dsl.pipex.com> > Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 22:47:06 +0100 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >In message <0ILO00FI3MXS1LM0 at vms048.mailsrvcs.net> > Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> wrote: > >> Write clock sets the write data rate and should corrospond to the >> rate needed for media. Writeclock is 2x data rate. > >Does this apply to both FM and MFM? The datasheet suggests a 500kHz WrClk for >FM and 1MHz for MFM mode, which would give a 250kHz FM data rate and a 500kHz >MFM data rate. Is that right? They are right. MFM requres twice the clock of FM as it's twice the speed. Obvious to me. However the statement is valid as the APPLIED clock is 2X the DATA rate for any mode. One of the confusing issues the fact that when going to MFM (AKA Double Density) you will always run the clock twice that of FM but the ratios of Wclock to data rate is always 2. The MFM pin can be used to select Wclock or Wclock/2 for MFM/FM operation on write and for read it can select clock or other timing dependent control for the read_data and read_data_window recovery. Oh and BTW: those specified data rates would be for 8" drives. For 5.25 they are half that. >And RdWindow from the datasep should cover the read frequency variations, >assuming the datasep can handle the variation in mode and frequency. Assuming you condition the data seperator for the correct mode with MFM output from the FDC. >> the logic does things like Data Clock recovery, Write precompensation timing > >I've heard the term "write precompensation" thrown about a bit - what's the >purpose of it? Simply put when you write flux transistions close together they tend to push apart or attract (depnding on adjacent flux transistions on media causing time distortion. Write precom is a predistortion based on the bit pattern so the recovery windows will be better. More important to MFM than FM. Some drives tend to distort more than other based on head design and write currents used. >> Using a 765 for _all_ data rates and both 3.5"/5.25"/8" floppy interfaces >> implemented with LSttl fills a S100 board completly. > >That's why SPLDs (GALs) and CPLDs were invented I guess. Squish the address >decoder, interface logic, and the data separator into a few LSTTLs and GALs, >or just throw everything into a single CPLD :) Yep, helped design and test a mask programmed gate array that reduced the minimal base PC from about 15 chips to less than 7 while keeping a good data sep and write precomp logic. >> Most designs implemented a subset for 8" or 5.25"/3.5" only >> (jumper selected) with much lower parts cost. > >That's what I wanted. I don't have any 8" drives, so adding support for them >is pointless. Ideally, I want a board that has a 6502-type interface on one >side and a 34-pin IDC connector on the other, with support for most common FM >and MFM 3.5" and 5.25" formats. Well the interface for 3.5 and 5.25 are nearly identical and that made most of that simple. the only real differnce is you will likely run twice the clock rates for 3.5" drive than 5.25". >> Yes, it was done on the 1.2MB AT-class machines. Reminder: every PC with >> rare exceptions used a 765 or a derivitive based on the 765 core. > >So I've noticed. I managed to get DMA-mode transfers working, but never >managed to get polled-mode or interrupt-mode transfers working. Guess I'll >have to learn fast when I start writing code to drive the FDC... Polled mode is tricky as the loop must wait for data to be ready then transfer it. That loop can be as fast as 13us worst case for DD 8" or 1.44mb 3.5". If your slow you get data overrun errors. >> For MFM is when the transiston occurs rather than how many. Generally the >> Floppy generates what is by standard expected and the FDC external logic >> will regenerate data pulses and data window (data window is a read clock). > >Right. So with FM the datasep syncs to the high-frequency signal in Gap1, >then every time there's a 0 you'll pick up a 0/1/0/1 sequence for each read >window, and when there's a 1 you'll pick up a 1/1/1/1 sequence? > >And with MFM, a 0 after a 0 would be 1/0, a 0 after a 1 would be 0/0 and a 1 >would be 0/1? Not always. The rate of transistions and symbols (zero or one) may not be one to one for number transistions. Never quite got MFM in my head as clear as FM. > >0/1 taken to mean "first data window was empty, second had a pulse in it". More like a 0 was a longer window than a one. where the FM the window always has one transistion and if it's a one then there will be a transistion near the middle of the window. The trick with floppies is the drive has a narrow bandwidth and the typical data rate must be in the range of F and 2F where F is some number of flux transistion per unit time (and also realated to per inch at rotation speed). MFM does some long string things to get the number of transistions to stay within F and 2F bit does not have the clear 1:1 symbol corolation of FM. Of course in real life not much of this is needed to assemble a working FDC/Floppy interface. Allison

21 years

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Floppy controller questions

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Allison" <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> ---snip--- > >>> For MFM is when the transiston occurs rather than how many. Generally the >>> Floppy generates what is by standard expected and the FDC external logic >>> will regenerate data pulses and data window (data window is a read clock). >> >>Right. So with FM the datasep syncs to the high-frequency signal in Gap1, >>then every time there's a 0 you'll pick up a 0/1/0/1 sequence for each read >>window, and when there's a 1 you'll pick up a 1/1/1/1 sequence? >> >>And with MFM, a 0 after a 0 would be 1/0, a 0 after a 1 would be 0/0 and a 1 >>would be 0/1? > >Not always. The rate of transistions and symbols (zero or one) may not be >one to one for number transistions. Never quite got MFM in my head as >clear as FM. > >> >>0/1 taken to mean "first data window was empty, second had a pulse in it". > >More like a 0 was a longer window than a one. where the FM the window >always has one transistion and if it's a one then there will be a >transistion near the middle of the window. > >The trick with floppies is the drive has a narrow bandwidth and the typical >data rate must be in the range of F and 2F where F is some number of flux >transistion per unit time (and also realated to per inch at rotation speed). >MFM does some long string things to get the number of transistions to stay >within F and 2F bit does not have the clear 1:1 symbol corolation of FM. > >Of course in real life not much of this is needed to assemble a working >FDC/Floppy interface. > > >Allison > > Hi My understanding was that both FM and MFM have the same maximum average flux change rate. As I recall, FM was a two cells for each data bit. clock in one and data in the other. MFM was where in the cell the bit was found. If it was early, it was a clock and late, it was the data bit. There were some rules about placing two transitions right next to each other so that a data "1" couldn't be followed by a clock. The frequency of the input clock to the FDC needs to be 2X for the MFM because it has finer timing edges, otherwise the average rate of pulses to the drive is the same. For soft sectored, they had some special marks that violated the rules for where a clock pulse should exist. The controller would watch for the missing clock and then recognize the data to determine what type of marker it was. This located things like header fields and data fields. I hope I got that right. Dwight

21 years

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Floppy controller questions

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Floppy controller questions > From: Philip Pemberton <philpem at dsl.pipex.com> > Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:19:52 +0100 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >Hi folks, > I've been reading through the uPD765, R6765 and 8272 FDC datasheets. All of >them seem to cover the basics pretty well, but I've got a few quick questions >for anyone who's used a 765-type FDC (or any other FDC that behaves in a >similar way), or who knows a bit about floppy drive technology: > > 1) How do you vary the read/write data rate? Some 3.5" formats use MFM at >250kbits/sec, others use MFM at 500kbits/sec. What relation does the WRITECLK >input have to the data rate of the MFM-coded signal at the WRITE DATA output? >What about the 8MHz master clock? BY prescaling the clock. Master clock drive the internal cpu and after prescaling the various timers (step rate, Head load time, head unload time) Possible useful rates for Clock is 8 and 4mhz. Use 8MHZ for fastest step rates, 4mhz for those drives (like sa400) that need really slow step rates. Also the rate that the master status register is updated is affected due to internal microprocessors speed. Write clock sets the write data rate and should corrospond to the rate needed for media. Writeclock is 2x data rate. The master clock is not synchronous to the write clock though it's easiest to derive both from the same master source. NOTE: like the 179x/177X basic controllers the 765 requires external logic to scale clock rates, write clock rates demux the various drive interface lines and generate the correct levels for driving the disk drive. Additonally the logic does things like Data Clock recovery, Write precompensation timing as those functions required logic faster than was doable in NMOS in 1981. The second generation chips such as 9266 and later WD37C65 integrated most of that logic into the chip in the AT-PC style (subset of full capability). Using a 765 for _all_ data rates and both 3.5"/5.25"/8" floppy interfaces implemented with LSttl fills a S100 board completly. Compupro, IMS and others are examples. Most designs implemented a subset for 8" or 5.25"/3.5" only (jumper selected) with much lower parts cost. A design for 5.25/3.5 floppy (no 5.25 1.2mb) only can be simplified further for greater parts savings. Single sided and double sided are trivial and add nothing to the design. The bulk of the logic is in five groups, bus interface, general clock generation, Write logic (clocks and precomp), read logic (aka seperator) and floppy interface. > 1a) Can the uPD765 be made to read and write both DSDD and DSHD floppies? >If so, how? I know the WD 177x controllers could do it if the 8MHz master >clock was increased to 16MHz (an old trick used on Acorn A3000s). Does the >same trick work with the 765? Yes, it was done on the 1.2MB AT-class machines. Reminder: every PC with rare exceptions used a 765 or a derivitive based on the 765 core. Write clock needs to be scaled to the correct value. OR you can take advantage of the HS lone on some drives so that the FDC can be clocked at 500khz data rate rather than the odd (non sub-multimple of 16mhz) 600/300kHz. Some designs used a 24mhz master clock to derive 8mhz, 4mhz, 1mhz, 600khz, 500khz, 300khz, 250khz, 125khz as needed for the correct data rates. Other timing derived from the master clock is the timing for the precomp shift register. > 2) How does the FDC decode the data it's been given, based on the data >window and the data read from the disc? In FM mode I guess you'd count the >cycles within the data window - 2 would be a 0, 4 would be a 1. But what >would you do for MFM? For MFM is when the transiston occurs rather than how many. Generally the Floppy generates what is by standard expected and the FDC external logic will regenerate data pulses and data window (data window is a read clock). > > 3) What happens when the drive's head picks up a flux transition? Does the >the drive generate a single pulse every time the head hits a transition, or >does the drive's RD DATA output change state? Pulse every transistion. By standard, the singal from the Floppy is a negative going pulse with pull up to 5V. > 4) When writing data, I'd guess that setting WR DATA high would polarise >the magnetic coating one way, while setting it low would polarise it the >opposite direction. Is this how it works, or does the WR DATA line get pulsed >to make the drive put down a flux transition? Pulsed to cause a transistion. FDCs are not transistion polarity selective. The critical parameter is that there was a transistion and when it occurs. The stated FRPI (flux reversals per inch) determine the media density and MFM uses fewer reversals per bit than FM so the density can be higher. In the density scale the 8" SD is the lowest and the 1.44mb 3.5" highest. There is a lot here. Allison

21 years

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Floppy controller questions

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Floppy controller questions > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 20:15:48 +0100 (BST) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >> > 1) How do you vary the read/write data rate? Some 3.5" formats use MFM at >> >250kbits/sec, others use MFM at 500kbits/sec. What relation does the WRITECLK >> >input have to the data rate of the MFM-coded signal at the WRITE DATA output? >> >What about the 8MHz master clock? >> >> BY prescaling the clock. Master clock drive the internal cpu and >> after prescaling the various timers (step rate, Head load time, >> head unload time) Possible useful rates for Clock is 8 and 4mhz. >> Use 8MHZ for fastest step rates, 4mhz for those drives (like sa400) >> that need really slow step rates. Also the rate that the master >> status register is updated is affected due to internal microprocessors >> speed. >> >> Write clock sets the write data rate and should corrospond to the >> rate needed for media. Writeclock is 2x data rate. The master clock >> is not synchronous to the write clock though it's easiest to derive >> both from the same master source. > >To avoid confusion. I think it would be clearer to say that Write clock >_need not be synchornised_ to the master clock. As you go on to say, >there is no problem if Write clock is derrived by dividing down the >master clock signal (asusming that will give the data rate you want), in >fact just about every floppy controller board does it that way. \ Err, I said that, did I not? Two people seperated by a common language. Allison

21 years

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Floppy controller questions

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> I am suprised there are no floppy drive schematics on bitsavers... there are probably a dozen in the service manuals qume, shugart, teac, siemens, for example. http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/siemens/FDD100-8_V2.pdf has a pretty good circuit description of a single sided drive.

21 years

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PC jr. and TRS-80 modems

by aw288＠osfn.org

Anyone need a PC jr. with the (nonchiclet) keyboard and monitor? They are officially in the way. Cheap. Also, anyone need TRS-80 modems - specifically a Modem 1 and Modem 1B, and new in box Acoustic Coupler? Cheap, also. William "zip is 10512" Donzelli aw288 at osfn.org

21 years

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Floppy controller questions

by philpem＠dsl.pipex.com

Hi folks, I've been reading through the uPD765, R6765 and 8272 FDC datasheets. All of them seem to cover the basics pretty well, but I've got a few quick questions for anyone who's used a 765-type FDC (or any other FDC that behaves in a similar way), or who knows a bit about floppy drive technology: 1) How do you vary the read/write data rate? Some 3.5" formats use MFM at 250kbits/sec, others use MFM at 500kbits/sec. What relation does the WRITECLK input have to the data rate of the MFM-coded signal at the WRITE DATA output? What about the 8MHz master clock? 1a) Can the uPD765 be made to read and write both DSDD and DSHD floppies? If so, how? I know the WD 177x controllers could do it if the 8MHz master clock was increased to 16MHz (an old trick used on Acorn A3000s). Does the same trick work with the 765? 2) How does the FDC decode the data it's been given, based on the data window and the data read from the disc? In FM mode I guess you'd count the cycles within the data window - 2 would be a 0, 4 would be a 1. But what would you do for MFM? 3) What happens when the drive's head picks up a flux transition? Does the the drive generate a single pulse every time the head hits a transition, or does the drive's RD DATA output change state? 4) When writing data, I'd guess that setting WR DATA high would polarise the magnetic coating one way, while setting it low would polarise it the opposite direction. Is this how it works, or does the WR DATA line get pulsed to make the drive put down a flux transition? Thanks. -- Phil. | Acorn RiscPC600 SA220 64MB+6GB 100baseT philpem at philpem.me.uk | Athlon64 3200+ A8VDeluxe R2 512MB+100GB http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | Panasonic CF-25 Mk.2 Toughbook ... How's this for diplomacy? Shoot them all! --Kirk

21 years

2
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Found old NCR computer...need info/keyboard

by bbrown＠harpercollege.edu

I found what I believe to be an NCR Decision Mate V computer. 1 5.25 floppy drive and 1 hard drive. no docs, no keyboard, no disks. Does anyone have info on this computer and any idea how to get a keyboard for it? thanks! -Bob -- bbrown at harpercollege.edu #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace

21 years

1
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Voltage regulators (was Nerding out with termcap)

by leeedavison＠yahoo.co.uk

> I imagine it's tricky to get 12V out of 11V (say) whilst able > to deliver enough current to keep a disk spinning (say). Of > course I'm sure it's been done, I've just not seen published > details of schematics etc. anywhere before! The topology you're looking for is SEPIC, single-ended primary inductance converter. With a SEPIC convertor the input voltage range can overlap the output voltage. Cheers, Lee. . ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com

21 years

1
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Free : Digital LA210

by birs23＠zeelandnet.nl

Free a Digital LA210 in the south-west of the Netherlands. There are also a few boxes of new ribbons. There are a few more printers that will be thrown out so if you are looking for anything let me know (also some banana boxes full of unusued ribbons for various printers). Has to be picked up within +/- 2 weeks. Stefan. ------------------------------------------------------- http://www.oldcomputercollection.com

21 years

2
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FM/MFM data separators (was: WD 1793 FDCs for sale)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: FM/MFM data separators (was: WD 1793 FDCs for sale) > From: Philip Pemberton <philpem at dsl.pipex.com> > Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 08:16:24 +0100 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >In message <0ILN001WBHXEEOX0 at vms040.mailsrvcs.net> > Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> wrote: > >> If I can ever scan it there is a design I have (NEC apnote) for a >> data seperator for FM/MFM that works for any rate and media. Uses >> a prom and a latch (yes a state machine) to do synthetic PLL. Analog >> PLLs were causing people too much pain and oneshots perform poorly. > >I would love a copy of that appnote - either scanned or photocopied is good >(if photocopied, I'll scan it and put it online myself). I've seen another >design that uses a state machine, but couldn't find any info on what it could >handle or how it worked. It's on ><http://www.simandl.cz/stranky/zxs/zxs_a.htm> if anyone's interested. That site has a copy of the circuit and the prom contents. It can handle all modes and rates. >I'd really like to get my hands on any of the Rockwell/MOS/Synertek >6502-series appnotes, or anything on the uPD765 or R6765. Also, has anyone >got any data on the Fairchild 96LS488? I'd like a scanner. >> Lacking that if you can find SMC9229 or '39 part that does a lot >> of the work for you. > >*checks Google >Obsolete and unobtainium. :( >The datasheet is probably on Bitsavers, but I doubt it's got any real info on >how the chip works internally. Certainly not enough to reimplement it from >off-the-shelf parts. It was never documeted on the fine detail. As to unobtainium, I've managed to find a few over time on XT and early at class FDC boards. Likely there is some NOS available somewhere. Allison

21 years

1
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WD 1793 FDCs for sale

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: WD 1793 FDCs for sale > From: Philip Pemberton <philpem at dsl.pipex.com> > Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 00:18:14 +0100 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >In message <430A56EA.2050907 at bellsouth.net> > Glen Goodwin <acme_ent at bellsouth.net> wrote: > >> Not in my experience. Surplus, yes -- pulls, no. >> I've bought lots of fuses and odd transistors from them >> without problem. > >That's been my experience too - I bought some uPD765 FDCs (actually Rockwell >R6765s, but effectively the same chip) from them a while back. No trace of >damage to the pins, no solder on them, still the same length they were when >the chips left the factory, and still splayed out. > >Speaking of the 765s, I still need to build an MFM data separator... If I can ever scan it there is a design I have (NEC apnote) for a data seperator for FM/MFM that works for any rate and media. Uses a prom and a latch (yes a state machine) to do synthetic PLL. Analog PLLs were causing people too much pain and oneshots perform poorly. Lacking that if you can find SMC9229 or '39 part that does a lot of the work for you. Allison

21 years

2
1
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PDP11 stuff in OZ

by KParker＠workcover.com

I am located in OZ but about a 10-12 hour trip away from where this guy is - I've just fired off an email myself expressing some interest. If I get what I am looking for I may have to make a trip over there and may have some capacity to get other stuff. ++++++++++ Kevin Parker Web Services Consultant WorkCover Corporation p: 08 8233 2548 m: 0418 806 166 e: kparker at workcover.com w: www.workcover.com ++++++++++ -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Carder Sent: Thursday, 18 August 2005 3:24 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: PDP11 stuff in OZ > -----Original Message----- > From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> > Sent: Aug 17, 2005 12:30 AM > To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org > Subject: PDP11 stuff in OZ > > If someone is nearby.. > > http://www.psych.usyd.edu.au/pdp-11/equip_list.html If anyone is in Australia and is willing to collect and ship some items to the USA for me, I will be glad to pay you for your time and effort. I have attempted to contact the owner of these items but have not received a response. I would very much like to have the spare 11/40 CPU set since I have both a functional 11/40 and 11/35, as well as a sick 11/35. My 11/40 is part of a historic functional display of a 1970s timesharing academic computer center and I would like to be able to have spares to keep it up and running. If anyone in Australia is willing to help, please contact me off-list at wacarder at usit.net. Thanks, Ashley ************************************************************************ This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee only. It may contain information that is protected by legislated confidentiality and/or is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you are prohibited from disseminating, distributing or copying this e-mail. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail may not necessarily be that of the WorkCover Corporation of South Australia. Although precautions have been taken, the sender cannot warrant that this e-mail or any files transmitted with it are free of viruses or any other defect. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and destroy the original e-mail and any copies. ************************************************************************

21 years

2
2
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HP3000 series 30 and III on ebay

by aek＠bitsavers.org

I normally wouldn't post this, but I have no way to save these and would REALLY like to get copies of the control store proms >from them for future use in simulators. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5198040316 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=5198040308 Unfortunately, Crisis scrapped all of their early 3000 boards about a year ago, just before I started looking for the data.

21 years

6
6
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INTERLNK/INTERSVR

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

Hi I've cracked other protocols by connecting another computer up to monitor the traffic on the serial lines. I don't think they did anything fancy. Probably the toughest thing might be determining the CRC,ECC or checksum method that they use. It would be best if you could simultaneously monitor both directions with two serial ports but I just did one direction at a time and then experimented until I got all the handshake. You, of course only want to use the input of the monitoring computer. You could make a snooping connector or as I did. I just used two easy clips on the exposed connector. Dwight >From: "John R. Hogerhuis" <jhoger at pobox.com> > >> > From: John R. Hogerhuis [mailto:jhoger at pobox.com] >> >> > Does anyone here have knowledge of the protocol used by the DOS6 >> > INTERLNK/INTERSVR utilities? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > -- John. >> >> I have some knowledge about it. What are you looking for? >> >> Greg Manuel >> www.gmconsulting.net >> > >I'm looking for the packet structures and protocol information; >basically I'm interested in any information that would be required to >implement my own version of INTERSVR. The intent is to make something >that would run on a non-DOS platform as an INTERLNK server. > >Thanks, > >-- John. > >

21 years

3
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WD 1793 FDCs for sale

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Philip Pemberton wrote: Speaking of the 765s, I still need to build an MFM data separator... There's a good detailed one in the Applications Notes that Al K. scanned in >from the old CDC stuff I loaned him. It has waveshapes, timing, et. Don't remember if that one had PCB layout in it, but most CDC ANs did. I know a lot of small companies asked to use it. They were told to do whatever they wanted with it. Billy

21 years

1
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WD 1793 FDCs for sale

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

Ah foo, I'll put it on top as there so much. I've done a fair amount of business with BGmicro, never had a problem. Often the prices are wicked cheap. Allison > >Subject: Re: WD 1793 FDCs for sale > From: Glen Goodwin <acme_ent at bellsouth.net> > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 18:51:22 -0400 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Chris M wrote: >> ain't most of BGMicro's stuph pulls or whatnot? >> > >Not in my experience. Surplus, yes -- pulls, no. >I've bought lots of fuses and odd transistors from them >without problem. > >Glen >0/0 > >> --- Roger Merchberger <zmerch at 30below.com> wrote: >> >> >>>Rumor has it that J.C. Wren may have mentioned these >>>words: >>> >>>> I saw these browsing around eBay today. IIRC, >>> >>>these are used on most >>> >>>>of the S100 floppy controllers, are they not? I >>> >>>don't know how a good a >>> >>>>deal this is, or the availablity though other >>> >>>channels, but thought I'd >>> >>>>pass them on. >>>> >>>><URL: >>> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAND-NEW-WESTERN-DIGITAL-ICS_W0QQitemZ7537549267 >> >>> > >>> >>>If you don't need 38 of 'em, www.bgmicro.com has 'em >>>fer sale at $4.49 each. >>> >>>At the auction, you're spending $3.63 each, just for >>>comparison. >>> >>>HTH, >>>Roger "Merch" Merchberger >>> >>>-- >>>Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Bugs of a feather >>>flock together." >>>sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Russell >>>Nelson >>>zmerch at 30below.com | >>> >>> >> >> >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> >>

21 years

1
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HP 1000 I/O Card Manuals

by glen.slick＠gmail.com

I recently picked up an HP 12979 I/O extender with some cards and now I'm looking for manuals. If someone has manuals for any of the following and could scan them when time permits that would be much appreciated. (Yes, I did check bitsavers before asking.) 12979A 12979B 12979C I/O Extender 11629-60001 44 BIT GPO (General Purpose Output?) I can't find any references to this card. Looks like it basically has a transister (or pair) for each output bit. 12551B Relay Output Register 12554A 16-Bit Duplex Register 12604B General Purpose Data Source Interface A Pocket Guide to Interfacing HP Computers (5950-8718) contains some information on these cards. 12661A Digital Voltage Source Programmer Apparently this would be used to control equipment such as the HP 6131B Digital Voltage Source.

21 years

4
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WD 1793 FDCs for sale

by jcwren＠jcwren.com

I saw these browsing around eBay today. IIRC, these are used on most of the S100 floppy controllers, are they not? I don't know how a good a deal this is, or the availablity though other channels, but thought I'd pass them on. <URL: http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAND-NEW-WESTERN-DIGITAL-ICS_W0QQitemZ7537549267 >

21 years

7
7
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drive repair tips?

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Sridhar Ayengar" <ploopster at gmail.com> > >der Mouse wrote: >> I have a disk drive - a (relatively) modern sealed unit - which appears >> to have mechanical trouble. The noise it makes spinning up says to my >> ear "bearing friction". >> >> I'm considering taking it apart and lubing the bearing. Of course, >> this would at best be a temporary fix, since it is on its way out at >> this point; this is more to gain experience on a throwaway device than >> to actually recover the drive. (All the bits from it are safe; live >> mirroring is great for that.) >> >> Any tips from the collective wisdom? Obviously, I want to do this in >> as close to a cleanroom as I can reasonably find, and have the platter >> assembly open as short a time as I can. But I don't, for example, have >> any idea what would be a suitable lubricant to use - assuming the >> bearing isn't a totally sealed assembly itself.... >> >> ObOTness thread: the disk itself may be formally on-topic; it's >> certainly close to - it is stamped "MAR 31 1996". > >I've done it before, but I find it's not usually worth it, unless you >can't access data on the drive, and you really need that data. I'd say >if that drive is still working, find an identical drive and dd the data >over. > >The drive is nowhere near as valuable as the data, at least for newish >drives. > >Peace... Sridhar > Hi It sounds like a fun project. Don't expect to get good results but consider it as an experiment in how to analyze a drive failure. One problem you may find is that in order to get to the bearing, you'll need to unmount the disk platters. It will be almost impossible to get these mounted in the same concentric location as they came out from. Also, note that rotating the disk surface, even a little backwards while the heads are in contact will most likely destroy the surface. One last thing is that you may need to make some special spanners to undo some of the fasteners. You can make a clean work area by getting some plastic sheeting, a small blower and a HEPA filter from a vacuum cleaner. Wipe the inside and the outside of the plastic sheet with a 10:1 diluted mixture of liquid dish soap and water. Let this dry. This stops most all of the static that would hold or transfer dust on the plastic sheet. Try to get some clear plastic so you can see but a small piece of glass should work. The bearing will be sealed but if you can access it from the motor side, you can get some lubricant by lifting the seal. Remember, you can't rotate the disk while the heads are on the surface. You'll need to make a comb like tool to lift them off while banging and digging on things. Hope this doesn't scare you. I do wish to hear what results you have. Also any observations you have while disassembling. The brand and type of drive are also of interest here. Dwight

21 years

16
34
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comdesign qbus card?

by brad＠heeltoe.com

Anyone have a QBUS ComDesign 4-port card? A friend used to work there and was waxing poetic the other day and claimed he'd like to have one. I thought I'd ask here... -brad

21 years

1
0
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Paging: Bill Dawson

by rcini＠optonline.net

Bill: It seems that I'm having problems reaching you through email. I receive your messages and reply but it seems you are not receiving all of the replies. I just sent you a test email from an alternative email account -- please let me know if you receive it from MSN. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/

21 years

1
0
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FA: Semi-OT Radisys EPC-2221 Single Board Computer

by RMeenaks＠OLF.COM

Have way too many toys, so I am cleaning stuff out. I just recently upgraded my rackmount to a 3.06Ghz Single Board Computer and hence cleaning out some PICMG/SBC based stuff. In the next several days, I will be posting some more PICMG-based computers on ebay, but for now, here is a Celeron 466MHz-based Radisys EPC-2221 on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6796091207&sspagename=ADM E:B:AAQ:US:1#ebayphotohosting Cheers, Ram

21 years

1
0
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INTERLNK/INTERSVR

by jhoger＠pobox.com

Does anyone here have knowledge of the protocol used by the DOS6 INTERLNK/INTERSVR utilities? Thanks, -- John.

21 years

3
3
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RX11 schematics

by chd_1＠nktelco.net

I need the schematics for the RX11 Unibus module, M7846. I looked in all the obvious places without success. Anybody have a copy or know where to find one? -chuck

21 years

1
0
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Hydra Systems : Mac on ISA card ??

by bernd＠kopriva.de

Hi, i got an ISA card, that includes a MC68000-16, 4 ATT 3030-100 chips, 4 MByte Ram and connectors labeled SCSI and Floppy Drive/Floppy Controller ... ... it was manufactured 1990/91 by Hydra Systems. Google revealed, that this could be a "Andor One"/"Hydra One". Does anyone have some more information, and maybe the software required to operate that card ? Thanks alot Bernd

21 years

3
4
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Looking for an Apple IIe serial card

by CCTalk＠catcorner.org

Subject says it all. I would need it shipped to 07461 (New Jersey). Let me know how much you would want for it, including shipping. Thanks, Kelly

21 years

2
1
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FDDI (was Vax 6320 on Ebay)

by cctech＠retro.co.za

Hi all >You're thinking about the U.S. Navy? I heard from them a few years >ago when they realized that FDDI was dead, dead, dead, and they had to >look for alternatives, because new FDDI hardware could no longer be >obtained anywhere. http://www.ccii.co.za [and for those of you who don't want to open a browser to find out what I'm on about, CCII Systems are as far as I know the only people still making FDDI adapters (primarily in PMC form-factor) and we (yea, I work here :-) plan on making them for a while still...] W

21 years

1
0
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New POWER toys

by ken＠seefried.com

From: William Donzelli <aw288 at osfn.org> >>> <muble> == 6611 > > > > Correct! Thanks..... I'll never forget in the early 1990s, doing my first really big network design (for an at-the-time top 4 cellular phone company, now part of a much bigger cellular phone company). They wanted to move to a routed, IP network from a bridged (!!) SNA+Netbios network. This included a phased move from Token Ring to Ethernet on the LAN side. I should note that this was also one of the larger AS/400 shops around. I created the RFPs, the evaluation criteria, etc., and based on initial research picked a short list of candidate router companies. Cisco, Wellfleet, GDC, 2-3 others I now forget, and IBM with the 6611. I contacted each of the corporate sales reps to explain what I was going to send them and what I expected back. Everyone expressed gratitude that they were allowed to participate, what could they do to help, did I like to play golf, yadda yadda. Except the IBM rep. Paraphrased: ME: Hi...I'm doing the architecture for the new network. I'm going to send you a bunch of requirements, and I'm going to need the following things in return. IBM Sales Drone: <long pause>...Why? ME: Ummm....because we will be selecting a vendor for the routing elements based on this evaluation. ISD: <long pause>...No your not. You're going to buy the new 6611. You're an IBM customer. <- direct quote ME: <long pause>...Really? ISD: Yes, you are. I don't understand why we are even having this conversation. <- also a quote ME: Thanks. I sent the doco over, they didn't respond, then raised hell at the C-level that they hadn't been given the chance to participate when we picked another vendor. My mangement told them to pound sand, and my CIO got mad enoungh to say things that made an IBM VP blush. Good times....good times... Ken

21 years

2
1
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Data I/O 2900 system disk?

by kahrs＠caip.rutgers.edu

I obtained a Data I/O 2900 programmer at Dayton in rather grotty but serviceable shape. But it is missing it's little old floppy (the disk, not the drive). The Data I/O website is silent on this. Anyone know where to find one? Also, to add to Ethan's Dayton report: I saw several Ultra 1s [one going for $5 at the end of Saturday] but no DEC, No SGI and certainly no Xerox Altos.

21 years

3
2
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scanners

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

Re: "Along the same line of sharing from AL, can you share with us what Equipment you use to scan books, manuals, and papers in order to archive them on bitsavers?" For anyone looking for a good scanner on a budget ...... The HP 5470C and 5490C are available on E-Bay cheap (sometimes under $10) and these are very high quality high-end scanners that originally sold for $300 to $500 not all that long ago (2002). They were PC Magazine's "Editor's Choice" and they are very hard to beat, even today, for either speed or quality. The 5490 is the model with the automatic document feeder (ADF), the 5470 is without out. But, in fact, the scanners themselves are identical, the document feeder is available separately and is also often sold on E-Bay, it is HP model number C9866A. These are excellent desktop scanners. They have both USB and parallel interfaces, 2400 dpi true hardware resolution, color and black and white (they have multiple sensors for different modes), they are supported by 98, ME, NT, 2000 and XP and they are the quality that you would expect from the products that were -- not all that long ago -- HP's "top of the line". The ADF will do a lot more pages than the ratings, about 60 sheets (the specs, I think, say 25 sheets). About the only drawback is that the scan width is limited to just over 8.5". There are two caveats, both related to the ADF: Be sure that you get the input paper tray, and be sure that you get the [proper] power unit. The paper tray can no longer be ordered separately and the ADF won't work without it. The power unit is still available but is very expensive (possibly more than you will pay for the entire scanner and ADF). The 5470 comes with a 12 volt power supply, both the 5490 and the C9866A add-on come with the dual output 12/24 volt supply required when the ADF is installed. The document feeder does not do duplexing, but Adobe Acrobat has the intelligence to scan all of the odd pages, then flip the stack and scan all of the even pages, and properly interleave the resulting document. Also, you can scan such a document in sections, you don't have to do it all at one pass. Acrobat is actually amazingly competent at doing this, and has become one of my most-used programs. Don't even think about getting a scanner -- any scanner -- without an ADF (document feeder). I have scanned over 20,000 pages in the past 3 years, and even for relatively short items, you really need an ADF. Also, when using an ADF, the document length is not limited by the scanner glass, you can scan (in theory) infinitely long pages. [When an ADF is used, the scanner light and imaging sensor are locked in place and do not move, rather it is the paper that moves.]

21 years

5
5
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QuantumLink pics

by brain＠jbrain.com

My apologies, but there are some pictures, if interested: http://www.jbrain.com/vicug/gallery/qlink/ Jim -- Jim Brain, Brain Innovations brain at jbrain.com http://www.jbrain.com Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, Old CBM computers, and Good Times!

21 years

11
20
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Bit Banger(s) we all have known.

by sdc695＠yahoo.com

ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said: > The earliest desktop comuter I know of with a bit-banged serial port is > the HP9830. <<<deletia>>> > I have never seen a bit-banged RS232 (or current loop) port on a > minicomputer. Anyone know of one? Well (since you asked) the original serial interface for the HP 2116 computer (around 1966 or so) was a serial bit-banging interface. You needed to assemble the byte from the ASR-33 (or 35, take your pick) teletype a bit at a time. They later had the bit assembly/disassembly register (this WAS pre UART chips) that did al the work. Unfortunately the "parallel" serial interface was only half duplex, as it used the same register for both assembly and disassembly. The "serial" (bit- banging) serial interface IIRC did not have this restriction. Ah, history... -- Tom Watson tsw at johana.com ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

21 years

3
2
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MV/4000 on ebay

by aek＠bitsavers.org

just saw this, ends this afternoon #5230917556 no bids, no reserve, $1 start nice config, but has to be picked up in MD

21 years

1
0
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Items of interest in Hayward, CA...

by korpela＠gmail.com

I was wandering around thrift shops today and stumbled across a used computer store I hadn't seen before on B street, west of Foothill in Hayward. I anticipated that it would be PC/Mac only, like most used computer stores, but was pleasantly surprised. Of course, I didn't write down its name or address. Of interest to this list, here are the things I didn't buy.... A Commodore PET plus (late model 2001, no built in tape drive, with a non-chicklet keyboard). A TS-1000. An AT&T 6300 (or 6300 plus, couldn't see the label.) A Tandy 1000HX (i.e. the one that has the keyboard built into the case). Several Apple II series models. All appeared to be in good condition and the prices were reasonable (i.e. ~$25 for the PET) Eric

21 years

3
2
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Microvax etc ebay UK

by classiccmp.org＠irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk

eBay 5231882901 - microvaxes, currently at ?1.00 ! The comment that worries me: "also have some other digital / dec stuff in a pile looking for a home or empty skip !" - anybody in Aberdeen fancy helping this guy?

21 years

2
1
0 0

Time Arts Lumena version 4.0

by fzrfast＠bellsouth.net

Hello: Does anyone have a working copy of TimeArts Lumena version 4.0 for the Atvista board from 1996? Jim Cox

21 years

1
0
0 0

Bit banger /analog modem

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Bit banger /analog modem > From: Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> > Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 23:08:03 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On 8/17/05, infomagic <infomagic at localisp.com> wrote: >> Tony wrote: >> have never seen a bit-banged RS232 (or current loop) port on a >> minicomputer. Anyone know of one? >> >> On the RCA 1802, there was an output line named "Q", and there were two instructions that directly set and reset the line. I believe the CPU had a built-in D-flip-flop for keeping it stable. >> >> It's my understanding that this line was often used to drive serial output. You might be able to locate software for any of the ELF computers that would show this use. I'll see what I can dig up... > >Except that the 1802 is most decidedly a microprocessor, not a minicomputer. > >I am unaware of any mini that did bit-banged serial. There were some >DEC console ports that impacted performance (11/750, 82x0/83x0), but >they were a hardware implementation AFAIK. Perhaps HP or DG might >have an example? > >-ethan VAX had a bit of effort doing this as realtime IO was not their forte. PDP-11s however could easily do it. There is a sample of code in the PDP-8 programmers handbook for doing bit banging on an -8. While many machines used hardware to do this it was enough hardware (easily done with out a uart) to warrent another board and represents cost. The trade was using a little of the CPU cycles to dothe IO in software. For system near the bottom dollar wise this can save a few bucks. The real question is is it worth 1-10% of the cpu cycles for IO, and how much IO is needed? Allison

21 years

2
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Amigas are OK here, eh? ;-)

by zmerch＠30below.com

Yea, the subject line is "baited," but technically, the machine's offtopic... I have an Amiga 4000T now (built in January 1998!) with a "standard" VGA card (It's got an S3 Virge chipset), 2G SCSI HD, CD-ROM reader & not much else. I'm thinking of setting this machine up for the kids as a 'game' machine but as it doesn't have ethernet, I'm not sure how easy that may be. I also don't have any install disks or anything, so I don't want to do too much to it, have it b0rk, and have no way of restoring/reformatting. [[ I also don't know much at all about Amigas, other than the fact I really drooled over them & the Atari ST's when I couldn't afford 'em... ;-) ]] Here's the stats on the box: Version 3.1 ROM, Kickstart Version 40.70 Workbench version 45.1 (I think this is AmigaOS 3.5...) 1,969,472 bytes Graphics Mem 11,534,728 bytes 'other' Mem Multiview, 44.15 (6-6-2000) It's got a 68040 in it, but IIRC, it's a 25Mhz. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= I don't have the coin for one of those Zorro <-> PCI thingamabobs on ePay, and the last few searches I did didn't bring about much for an ethernet adapter[1], so I'm guessing the best way to get info on the machine would be via the CD-ROM drive and CD-R's. I think I could also compile a custom Linux kernel that allow read/write access to an Amiga-formatted HD, but I've never done it, so I don't really know for sure. I have a few questions: 1) Was there ever a version of OS-9/68K that ran on Amiga hardware? I know there was one that ran on the Atari ST series... 2) Would I be best off to just buy the latest available version of AmigaOS (for dox, media, etc.) or should I search/wait/etc. for it? It easily meets the 'minimum' install requirements for AmigaOS3.9, and is still better than the "for improved usability" specs... 3) I have access to a SCSI CD-R/RW burner - Is this machine capable of burning CDs (even at 1x - I'm not in a hurry... ;-) at all? That could help me making backups in case of a disaster... 4) Anything else I forgot to ask about??? ;-) Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger [1] Admittedly, I haven't searched my brains out for one... -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | A new truth in advertising slogan SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers | for MicroSoft: "We're not the oxy... zmerch at 30below.com | ...in oxymoron!"

21 years

4
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Bit banger /analog modem

by infomagic＠localisp.com

Tony wrote: have never seen a bit-banged RS232 (or current loop) port on a minicomputer. Anyone know of one? -tony On the RCA 1802, there was an output line named "Q", and there were two instructions that directly set and reset the line. I believe the CPU had a built-in D-flip-flop for keeping it stable. It's my understanding that this line was often used to drive serial output. You might be able to locate software for any of the ELF computers that would show this use. I'll see what I can dig up... -John M.

21 years

2
1
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Old Compaq Portable III to give away (London WC1)

by jonathan.laventhol＠imagination.com

Dear CCTALK -- I hope this is an appropriate place to post this kind of message. My company occasionally has old computers and such to get rid of -- "else they're going in the skip". Would anybody be interested in a Compaq Portable III? It's Model 2660 120/240 V, orange screen luggable. Here's a page with pictures I found: http://oldcomputers.net/compaqiii.html It powers up, passes RAM check (640 Kbyte) and then has an error about options not set, then another about time and date. I assume its CMOS RAM battery is flat. I don't know whether it has a hard drive (I think so) or whether it will boot or is repairable. It has a UK keyboard. Yours for Two (2) bottles of beer for first person to e-mail me saying they'll come collect it (from London WC1). Many thanks, Jonathan. jonathan dot laventhol at imagination dot com -- ______________________________________________________________________ Imagination Ltd 25 Store Street South Crescent, London WC1E 7BL, England Tel +44 (0)20 7323 3300 Fax +44 (0)20 7323 5801 ______________________________________________________________________

21 years

2
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New POWER toys

by dogas＠bellsouth.net

The other day the mailman delivered the bills and a lead saying a doctor's office around the corner wanted to get rid of their 'big old' computer. Picture my stationwagon's wheels squealing out of the driveway moments later. ;) Turns out to be a IBM PowerServer 520, a 3151 ascii terminal, a 7207 scsi tape, a 4226 printer, a couple of concentrator boxes, and the cabeling to run it all. It boots cleanly into AIX 3.2 and I've got the root password for it. Sweet, though I didn't get any media or docs or see a C compiler in there either. Off to the faqs there It was supprisingly liftable after an earlier experience toting a 'small' AS400. Has anyone been inside a 3151 terminal? The screen is pretty dim even with the front contrast knob jacked up all the way. Is there a pot inside (and where) to brighten the screen? And can anyone recommend any of the cool cards/options to look out for? It's my first AIX box. Thanks - Mike: dogas at bellsouth.net ps. here are some pics... http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/a.JPG http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/b.JPG http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/c.JPG http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/d.JPG http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/e.JPG http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/f.JPG http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/g.JPG

21 years

6
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Loose in San Jose

by doc＠mdrconsult.com

And I'm coming to kick Sellam's butt! No, seriously, I am in San Jose CA, with an unexpected day-and-a-half off work. I'm looking for suggestions for classic computer sightseeing and/or shopping. Obviously, Weird Stuff is high on the list. Sellam, I'll try to contact you off-list, to see if you want to meet this afternoon or tomorrow. Doc

21 years

3
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DEC program listing

by mpokorni2000＠yahoo.com

Hello everyone, I am looking for listing of a program. It is for DEC PDP11s, used under test monitor XXDP. The program is WLINK, used for checking out DRV-11W boards in link mode between two machines. The board, DRV-11W, is intended for 16 bit parallel interface either between DEC machines with Unibus or Q Bus or between a Q Bus machine and an external device. I am told, the program is written in some strange language used by DEC people who supported manufacturing, but the listing is in Assembler, I have seen it and used it some 15 years ago. thank you, Miroslav Pokorni

21 years

21
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Vax 6320 on Ebay

by ISC277＠CLCILLINOIS.EDU

This, my friends, is truly, truly hilarious and awesome... "Digital VAX 6320 PC, approx 5.5 ft high 4 foot deep and 3 foot wide, needs 3 phase mains to operate."" A PC that runs on 3 phase...nothing personal about that, LOL! -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dan Williams Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 1:53 PM To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org Subject: Vax 6320 on Ebay Anyone got some space and 3 phase ? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=96944&item=5211 981884 Dan

21 years

5
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DEC VMS 5.0, VAX FORTRAN, VAX LAB, VAX GKS docs available for shipping

by vcf＠siconic.com

See below. This stuff is in Ohio. Please reply directly to original sender. Reply-to: Stephen.Gunderson at wpafb.af.mil ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:55:14 -0400 From: Gunderson Stephen L Contr AFRL/MLBT <Stephen.Gunderson at wpafb.af.mil> To: 'Vintage Computer Festival' <vcf at siconic.com> Subject: RE: donating materials We have available for donation the following: Complete documentation set for VMS 5.0, VAX FORTRAN documentation, VAX LAB documentation and VAX GKS documentation. We also have software for all the previous systems BUT no code keys and we also have some TK50 tapes. Could you or anyone else you know of use all or some of these materials for the price of shipping only (probably about 50 pounds for all). We have already contacted the Computer History Museum and are also contacting the American Computer Museum and the San Diego Computer Museum. Thanks. Steve Gunderson Research Engineer Contractor (UDRI) AFRL/MLBT Ph: (937) 255-5180 Fax: (937) 255-2176 -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

21 years

1
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New POWER toys

by ken＠seefried.com

William Donzelli wrote: >(they were used in a specially badged RS/6000-320 called a ><mumble> Network Processor). <muble> == 6611 Ken

21 years

2
1
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Need TK30 manual

by vcf＠siconic.com

Anyone have a TK30 manual? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

21 years

6
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[cctalk] Anyone care to guess what this is? Is it a computer even?

by Arno_1983＠gmx.de

Hello everybody! Jaywest wrote: > I mentioned this on the list a long time ago - found it at a salvage place. > I wasn't in any rush to get pictures, but last time I was there they said > the place was going to be declared off-limits for humans. So I got a few > pictures of this olive drab "computer". Anyone have any clue what this thing > is? Just curious!? If anyone wants it I could put them in touch with the > salvage place owner. > > Pictures are at www.ezwind.net/jwest/whatsit Haven't even looked at the pictures yet (I'm doing mail offline when all I got is a modem line), but: *Somebody Please Save This!* (I can't, as it's across the pond and shipping would be a killer if it can't be included into a bigger load that goes to Europe anyway!) Such control equipment and the like are one of the places where robotics and the modern "embedded system" concept started off! I own a Siemens Sinumerik unit (actually, a rebadged Fujitsu Fanuc mate TG) >from the early 1970s. It's nonfunctional now because the monitor box (which contains the character and vector generator board for the graphics too - abso-f***ing-lutely proprietary) is missing. I had that here once, but it was trashed before I came to realize I wanted to save the whole thing. I also have a lead on a Sinumerik 810 which is supposed to become available sometime soon. I got some demo, lessons and simulation practice on (C)NC programming two years ago as a part of the practical introduction in industry for EE students. Great fun to watch a huge powerful tooling machine execute commands that one enters on a computer, serial terminal or via paper tape! Yours sincerely, Arno Kletzander Stud. Hilfskraft Informatik Sammlung Erlangen --- www.iser.uni-erlangen.de

21 years

1
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Another disk imaging project

by r_a_feldman＠hotmail.com

I have a parallel port version of the Databook ThinCardDRIVE, model TMD-500. This is an external PCMCIA drive for reading SRAM cards. IIRC, it does not read flash cards. The manual is copyright 1991 and specifically mentions using SRAM cards in the HP 95LX and Poqet. It was a white-box unit that I got on eBay about 4 years ago. At the time, they were listed fairly often. I heard that they had been surplussed by NASA in Alabama. Databook was aquired by another company, which does not offer support for these units. I did email them and got instructions for using the unit with Windows, but it does not always work correctly in Windows 95. I also have an internal PCMCIA reader, but I have to dig it out to get its specs. Jim, email me off-list at r(underscore)a(underscore)feldman(at)hotmail.com. I don't need both units. Bob Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:04:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> Subject: Re: Another disk imaging project To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20050815174715.O62263 at shell.lmi.net> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > >>>There are ISA adapters for PCMCIA. There are adapters to plug CF into > >>>PCMCIA dlots. > > There are, or at least WERE, 8 bit ISA PCMCIA adapters. On Mon, 15 Aug 2005, Jim Leonard wrote: >Recall any? I'm really looking for something like this. I YOUSTA have an 8 bit ISA card with a PCMCIA slot on the back. There was also an ISA card with a cable to a PCMCIA slot in a holder that mounted in place of a 3.5" drive. ISTR the name as being something like "DataBook Thin Card Drive". The machine that it's in is not very conveniently accessible, but I might be able to get at it in a few weeks. If so, I'll dig it out, and confirm what it is. <snip> Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com

21 years

1
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QuantumLink pics

by GFisher＠tristonecapital.com

>Message: 30 >Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 22:38:27 -0500 >From: Jim Brain <brain at jbrain.com> >Subject: Re: QuantumLink pics >To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Message-ID: <43055433.1070106 at jbrain.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >> >>Great work Jim! I always wanted to know what Qlink looked like. I used Compuserve at the time and it's interface was pretty basic. >> >> Now what would be really fun would be to patch Qlink to work with the MMC-64 or Retro Replay with an RR-net card and go through the internet! Has anybody ever tried it? >> >> > >Not yet. Putting a whole TCP/IP stack in the machine might be a bit >much, but I'll not say it's impossible. Note though that we did go >through the Internet (albeit via a slave PC COM port). > >Jim > >-- >Jim Brain, Brain Innovations >brain at jbrain.com http://www.jbrain.com >Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, Old CBM computers, and Good Times! Jim, Thanks for the hint about the PC serial, I went on to Jeff Ledger's site http://www.petscii.com/ and learned lots more about your work. Looking forward to getting it going with my rig. Gary Fisher Vice President, Auction Tristone Capital Inc. Suite 1800, 335 - 8th Avenue SW Calgary, Alberta T2P 1C9 B: 403.303.8657 F: 403.294.9543 E:gfisher at tristonecapital.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Unless otherwise stated, opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the author and are not endorsed by the author's employer.

21 years

1
0
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DG Nova 2

by hachti＠hachti.de

Hi folks, there is a DG Nova 2 on eBay here in Germany. It is said to be non-functional but I'm still interested. Does anybody know about that system: - When has it been manufactured (Seller writes 1978 but I doubt)? - How is the state of available hardware docs? - Which kind of memory and logic families are used? - LSI or TTL? - Is that a cool computer? Anyx other information welcome, too... Thanks, Philipp :-)

21 years

1
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New POWER toys

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> There are some ass-kicking (for the time) video cards for the very early > RS/6000s that took up three slots (!). They were based on the early SGI 4D chip sets. It would run the SGI flight simulator (I had a set in the RS/6000 I used for early PPC Mac development)

21 years

2
1
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HP 7900 disk platter plays Spike Jones hit???

by acme_ent＠bellsouth.net

eBay Item number 5230383368 From the auction description: WHEN INSTALLED IN DISK DRIVE PLAYS A SPIKE JONES HIT WTF???? Any of you HP gurus care to 'splain this to me? Glen 0/0

21 years

6
5
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1/2" tape cleaner?

by brad＠heeltoe.com

Askley's plea for empty dectape reels made me think I should ask here... I'm looking to find a 1/2" tape cleaner. Anyone on the east coast have one they don't need? I'd also be curious to hear from Ashley (or others) how reading old DECtapes goes - do you ever have "sticktion" problems? or see stick-shed syndrom? (ah, I remember watching os/8 load off a dectape unit connected to an 8/i running tss/8... It had 4 8/l's slaved off it and 'served' the dectape drive up to which ever asked for it) -brad

21 years

5
6
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QuantumLink pics

by GFisher＠tristonecapital.com

>Message: 14 >Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 02:01:09 -0500 >From: Jim Brain <brain at jbrain.com> >Subject: QuantumLink pics >To: Classic Computer Talk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Message-ID: <43043235.1000404 at jbrain.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >My apologies, but there are some pictures, if interested: >http://www.jbrain.com/vicug/gallery/qlink/ >Jim >-- >Jim Brain, Brain Innovations >brain at jbrain.com http://www.jbrain.com >Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, Old CBM computers, and Good Times! Great work Jim! I always wanted to know what Qlink looked like. I used Compuserve at the time and it's interface was pretty basic. Now what would be really fun would be to patch Qlink to work with the MMC-64 or Retro Replay with an RR-net card and go through the internet! Has anybody ever tried it? Gary Fisher This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Unless otherwise stated, opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the author and are not endorsed by the author's employer.

21 years

3
2
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to those who offered to help

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Thanks SO much for all those who offered to help gate posts from cctalk to cctech. I'm in the process of writing something up that gives instructions on how exactly to do what is needed. Then I'll send off the instructions to those who are in the right timezones across the globe :) Jay West

21 years

1
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1/2" tape cleaner?

by aek＠bitsavers.org

If I had a vacume column drive which floated the tape over the heads without contact I suspect this would not be a problem :-) -- Look at what John B. is doing at readtapes.com Normal heads apply several pounds of pressure from the tape to the head surface. By using magnetorestrictive heads, you can cut that to a few ounces. If you thing about how a normal head works, it closes the loop of an electromagnet with the oxide on the tape, so it REQUIRES physical contact to work.

21 years

1
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Some days you win, some days you lose

by James＠jdfogg.com

I was talking with a woman I'd met during a "freecycle" pickup and we were talking about things we collect. She mentioned she used to have an old DECmate with all the floppies and books. It was in her ex-husbands basement and she agreed to ask if it was still around. It wasn't and it had met the worst fate :-( -James

21 years

1
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Wanted... IBM 3270 or similar

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Looking for a 3278, 3279, or 3194 (IBM terminals). I guess the 3194's are preferred just due to shipping weight. Anyone have one around for trade? Jay West

21 years

1
0
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1/2" tape cleaner?

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> The cleaner portion sometimes has an amazing looking mechanism I've > heard called "ruby blades". AKA "Tape Scrapers" Earliest cleaners used razor blades. Replace with harder materials later. > These can clean and burnish tapes in good > shape but can also ruin a tape in bad shape. It sounds like what you have are bad tapes. Why would you risk them on a certifier/cleaner?

21 years

3
2
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Sharp PC 4502 Battery Substitute?

by CJCRIDER＠aol.com

Jerry, Would you like my pc-4502 with battery and case? Your welcome to it. Craig.

21 years

1
0
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scanners (was 1/2" tape cleaner?)

by aek＠bitsavers.org

Along the same line of sharing from AL, can you share with us what equipment you use to scan books, manuals, and papers in order to archive them on bitsavers? -- Primary scanner is a Ricoh IS520. B&W up to 400dpi, double sided, 30ppm, handles 11x17 sheets Built like tanks. I think we have a dozen of them now between Eric and I. Just found two on eBay for under $300 ea incl shipping. SW is windows-based and quirky, but after running a million or so pages through it you learn to get around the bugs. I made the decision a long time ago that the data on the pages was more important than the bindings, so bound docs and books are disassembled to scan. If I can find bound docs in poor condition (water damage, etc.) I'll use those first. I have a Mustek 11x17 flatbed SCSI scanner for large format or color scanning. I also have a Mekel M560 microfiche/aperture card scanner that I'm just getting up to speed on, and a couple of large format (36") scanners that I need to get going, and a bunch of 3M microfilm scanners in storage.

21 years

1
0
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1/2" tape cleaner?

by wacarder＠earthlink.net

> -----Original Message----- > From: Brad Parker <brad at heeltoe.com> > Sent: Aug 18, 2005 1:58 PM > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: 1/2" tape cleaner? > > > Ashley's plea for empty dectape reels made me think I should ask here... > > I'm looking to find a 1/2" tape cleaner. Anyone on the east coast have > one they don't need? > > I'd also be curious to hear from Ashley (or others) how reading old > DECtapes goes - do you ever have "sticktion" problems? or see stick-shed > syndrom? > > (ah, I remember watching os/8 load off a dectape unit connected to an 8/i > running tss/8... It had 4 8/l's slaved off it and 'served' the dectape drive > up to which ever asked for it) > > -brad I think that Al Kossow has lots of experience reading old DECtapes based on the good DecTape archives that he has on bitsavers. Al, can you share a little of your experience and insight with the rest of us? How well do these things hold up 30-35 years later when they are actually being read and written to on a TU56? Ashley

21 years

3
2
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TU56 DECTape reels

by wacarder＠earthlink.net

Does anyone have any empty DECtape reels? I think I'm getting ready to start my TU56 / TC11 restoration and I don't want to waste "good" DECtape reels that have tape on them just to get a couple empty "take-up" reels. Thanks, Ashley P.S. On another note, does anyone have any decent TU56/TC11 that they would be interested in selling in case mine ends up being too far gone? Mine's definitely a fixer-upper, but I believe it's all there. I'm also looking for a high speed DEC paper tape reader/punch (PC05/PC11).

21 years

1
0
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Assignment V equality

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Vintage Computer Festival <vcf at siconic.com> wrote: > I know. And if you want to leave a unix shell and you type "exit", you > then have to press Enter to do it. No, you don't have to do this - you can just press ^D instead. In fact on truly Classic UNIX (V7 and 4.3BSD) this is the ONLY way - exit only stops shell scripts, but won't terminate an interactive shell. MS

21 years

1
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(no subject)

by leeedavison＠yahoo.co.uk

> From the auction description: > WHEN INSTALLED IN DISK DRIVE PLAYS A SPIKE JONES HIT > WTF???? > Any of you HP gurus care to 'splain this to me? Probably a reference to Spike's musical talent ... "A chef in a railroad restaurant taught him how to use adapted pots and pans, forks, knives and spoons as musical instruments." Cheers, Lee . ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

21 years

1
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QuantumLink progress update

by korpela＠gmail.com

On 8/18/05, Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote: > >Had to have been AOL, sorry. QLink only ever was a Commodore service. There > >was a GEOS-based AOL client for DOS, and I think that did appear in some > >Radio Shack stores. I don't know if it was an official promo deal, though. The GEOS AOL client was the official AOL client on the PC before the Windows first windows client was released (ca. 1995?). It shipped with a run time GEOS environment.

21 years

1
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WANTED: Atari ST software

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

At 14:36 17/08/2005 -0700, you wrote: >Hello, > >Does anyone have any Atari ST disks that you can send >me? > >I have a 520ST, but I don't have a single diskette for >it. I've just made images of the TOS System Disk and the BASIC and Logo language disks - I should have them posted to my site sometime tomorrow. IIRC, although the ST has it's operating system in ROM, it won't actually "do anything" unless there is a diskette in the drive. Fortunately the ST uses FAT format disks, so you can format a 720K disk on a PC, put it in the drive and the OS will come up. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

21 years

1
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cctalk Digest, Vol 24, Issue 37

by unibus＠gmail.com

> Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 13:54:26 -0400 (GMT-04:00) > From: Ashley Carder <wacarder at earthlink.net> > Subject: Re: PDP11 stuff in OZ > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: > <796518.1124301267248.JavaMail.root at elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> > > Sent: Aug 17, 2005 12:30 AM > > To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org > > Subject: PDP11 stuff in OZ > > > > If someone is nearby.. > > > > http://www.psych.usyd.edu.au/pdp-11/equip_list.html > > If anyone is in Australia and is willing to collect and ship > some items to the USA for me, I will be glad to pay you > for your time and effort. I have attempted to contact the > owner of these items but have not received a response. > > I would very much like to have the spare 11/40 CPU set > since I have both a functional 11/40 and 11/35, as well > as a sick 11/35. My 11/40 is part of a historic functional > display of a 1970s timesharing academic computer center > and I would like to be able to have spares to keep it up > and running. > > If anyone in Australia is willing to help, please contact > me off-list at wacarder at usit.net. > > Thanks, > Ashley Unfortunately the items are in Sydney and I'm in Melbourne. Suggest you try Australian Computer Museum Society (ACMS) ( http://www.acms.org.au contacts ) John Geremin. Regards, Garry

21 years

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Rodime RO200 series

by leeedavison＠yahoo.co.uk

>> This is a Xebec board, no identifying marks apart from 'Rev E04' > It's probably a Xebec S1410 board; ... Lots of analogue circuitry > toward the top of the board in the middle, ROM bottom-right, and > 3 40-pin ICs toward the bottom of the board in the middle. That's the beastie, Z80 CPU, 4K ROM and 1K RAM (2 x 2114) seem to make up the brains of the card. > These boards don't support Identify - which is what makes plugging > them into modern hardware in order to archive data a real pain. I'll have to fix up an Amiga with it's ST506/SCSI card and try that on the drive then. > If just have a J4 connector (not present on all boards) ... Not present on this one. > That Xebec's actually SASI not SCSI incidentally... if the Torch > SCSI board is operating in some kind of SASI mode then a modern > SCSI drive might not be too happy talking to it. I was going to try some Seagate 20MB and 40MB drives, when I find them. > SCSI command class 0, opcode 0x0C is 'initialise drive > characteristics' - the host needs to send this to the board with > params in order that> the board can address the drive(s) properly. I presume it can do a read of whatever sector holds these parameters first though. > (the S1410 manual's on the floor here from where I've been bodging > a homebrew SASI controller onto a PC in order to drive one of the > boards :) Isn't reading the destructions like cheating? 8^)= Cheers, Lee. . ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com

21 years

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Rodime RO200 series

by leeedavison＠yahoo.co.uk

> Most Torch machines used an OMTI 5000 series board, I think This is a Xebec board, no identifying marks apart from 'Rev E04' > There's also something about reading the drive geometry from > the first (zeroth?) sector of the drive, then sending some > commands to the OMTI board. I doubt that modern SCSI drives > will handle that correctly. It sounds like it's the SCSI identify command. I remember using a WD chipset board with an Amiga to run two 40MB ST506 drives many years ago that would mostly work but would eventually fall over if you tried the identify command too many times. Writing raw data to a SCSI device is no problem so I may be able to make a proper SCSI drive look right. Guess I'd beter dust off the logic analyser sometime soon just in case it doesn't work. Cheers, Lee. . ___________________________________________________________ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com

21 years

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Torch 725

by leeedavison＠yahoo.co.uk

Mostly just pictures for now, I'll add more data as I get it. I hope the hard drive works, at least long enough to make a copy. http://www.themotionstore.com/leeedavison/68k/torch725/index.html Cheers, Lee. . ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

21 years

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Ping Randy McLaughlin

by CCTalk＠catcorner.org

Has anyone heard from Randy lately? Thanks, Kelly

21 years

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IBM user group to celebrate 50th anniversary

by KParker＠workcover.com

Definitely a classic story - appeared in Australian IT news today.... http://www.itnews.com.au/newsstory.aspx?CIaNID=19683&eid=1&edate=2005081 8 ++++++++++ Kevin Parker Web Services Consultant WorkCover Corporation p: 08 8233 2548 m: 0418 806 166 e: kparker at workcover.com w: www.workcover.com ++++++++++ ************************************************************************ This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee only. It may contain information that is protected by legislated confidentiality and/or is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you are prohibited from disseminating, distributing or copying this e-mail. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail may not necessarily be that of the WorkCover Corporation of South Australia. Although precautions have been taken, the sender cannot warrant that this e-mail or any files transmitted with it are free of viruses or any other defect. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and destroy the original e-mail and any copies. ************************************************************************

21 years

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collection of TTL/CMOS chips, can anyone help identify?

by unibus＠gmail.com

> Message: 21 > Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 19:15:32 -0700 > From: "Brian Knittel" <brian at quarterbyte.com> > Subject: collection of TTL/CMOS chips, can anyone help identify? > Anyone have any info on the M5799? MM5799 is another COPS part > > Others, can not determine what they are. Any ideas? I can go back and > try to get manufacturer letters: > 5737 MM5737 is an 8-Digit, calculator > 5782 MM5782 is a COPS Memory and processor element > 7504 ??? > 7506 ??? > 7515 ??? > 7517 ??? > 8096 DM8096 is a Tri-State Hex Buffers, pin equivalent to 54/74366 > 8098 DM8098 is a Tri-State Hex Buffers, pin equivalent to 54/74368 > 8670 ??? > 8681 ??? > 8817 ??? > 16254 ??? > 60769 ??? > 141097 national semi, no idea Regards, Garry

21 years

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ASCII was Anyone care to guess what this is? Is it a computer even?

by swtpc6800＠comcast.net

I happen to have a July 1964 issue of Electronics World with an article titled "Binary Computer Codes and ASCII" by Ed Bukstein. It gives a summary of existing codes then has this statement. The recent trend toward "networking" of computers has emphasized the need for a standard code. Here is the American Standard Code for Information Interchange X3.4-1963 chart http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/ElectronicsWorld/Jul1964/ASCII_1963.jpg (I have got it in tiff also.) Note that lower case is unassigned and the underscore is a back arrow. Also in this issue Don Lancaster has a light dimmer project. It uses a new semiconductor called a "bilateral switching diode". Michael Holley > Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 11:47:59 -0700 (PDT) > From: Tom Jennings <tomj at wps.com> > Subject: RE: Anyone care to guess what this is? Is it a computer even? > There's an indicator/switch labelled "ASCII". It's clearly late > 70's/early 80's vintage, so it's likely computer-controlled, if

21 years

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Assignment V equality (was: Bliss was Re: DEC program listing

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk > >> Students who have never used a low level language, (INCLUDING CS GRADUATES >> in many cases!), have a VERY difficult time accepting the concept that >> floating point is an approximation, and therefore a lot of "ordinary" >> arithmetic principles don't apply. > >Thrivial example... On most (if not all) calculators, try something like > >1 E 20 [enter] 1 + 1 E 20 - > >(Ooops, that's in RPN, I've forgotten how to do it on a normal >calculator, try soemthing like 1 E20 + 1 = - 1 E 20 = ) > >Explain why the result is not 1 (OK, we all know the answer here...) > > Hi Sounds like a problem that involved a continuously running clock that incremented a floating point accumulator. When it started to saturate in about 18 days, they were no longer able to calculate differential time. Oh my, why didn't the missile fire? Here is another one. I wish to do multiple precision but all I have is a standard compiler that only does 32 bit math. I write some utilities that allow me to handle the simple task of extending the operations such that I can do a 64 bit integer divide by a 32 bit number. I was careful to only do integer operations! When I apply this new math to a XY table control, I notice that right in the middle of the table, as I step along, it jumps. Careful measurements of the size of the jump correspond to one LSB of the upper 32 bits of my multiple precision operations. So, what is wrong here? I also notice that the center of my XY table is coordinate 0,0 ( hint ). Dwight

21 years

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Rodime RO200 series

by leeedavison＠yahoo.co.uk

>> While this is an RO200 series I don't know which one. > Do you know if it's an 200E-series drive or a plain old 200 > series? It seems to be a plain old 200 series, at least the label says RO 200 series and not RO 200E series. No model number anywhere though. > Capacity seems to be dictated by number of heads (which you > can count with the lid off!) Curses! I didn't count and I don't want to open it up again unless I have to. I do remember that it is 'full' of platters though, and there is an arm to each surface. It's the first time I've seen a full height drive without room for an extra platter or two. Cheers, Lee. . ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com

21 years

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Rodime RO200 series

by leeedavison＠yahoo.co.uk

I've recently acquired a TORCH-725 which has this RO200 series hard drive in it, trouble is when I took everything out of the TORCH case for first inspection I heard something 'ting' off one of the platters in the drive. Opening it up to have a look, well a little dust can't be as bad as debris that goes 'ting', I found a 12mm long 2.7mm dia. roll pin lying in one corner. Anyone have a clue where this may have come from? Dare I power the drive without it? This may eventually be the only option if I can't re-install the pin. While this is an RO200 series I don't know which one. The series seems to run from 5MB to 40MB and I'd like to know which one this is likely to be. Assuming this drive needs to be replaced can I use a 40MB SCSI drive on the Torch SCSI board and bypass the SCSI to ST506 interface? This would be the prefered eventual solution as I have a few 20MB to 200MB SCSI drives I could use. Cheers, Lee. . ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com

21 years

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WANTED: Atari ST software

by tosteve＠yahoo.com

Hello, Does anyone have any Atari ST disks that you can send me? I have a 520ST, but I don't have a single diskette for it. Thanks! Steve in Southern California. ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

21 years

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PDP-11 Diagnostic Handbook

by wacarder＠earthlink.net

>> On Saturday 13 August 2005 19:38, Al Kossow wrote: >> If you use XXDP, you want a copy of this. >> >> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/xxdp/ >> PDP11_DiagnosticHandbook_1988.pdf > > Al, > > What a great manual!!! This will save hours of rummaging through XXDP > listings to find switch settings! > > Thanks, > Lyle Ditto what Lyle said. This manual has everything spelled out. I won't have to scratch my head any more trying to figure out how to run the XXDP diagnostics with a blindfold on. Thanks Al !!! Ashley

21 years

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Anyone care to guess what this is? Is it a computer even?

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

I mentioned this on the list a long time ago - found it at a salvage place. I wasn't in any rush to get pictures, but last time I was there they said the place was going to be declared off-limits for humans. So I got a few pictures of this olive drab "computer". Anyone have any clue what this thing is? Just curious!? If anyone wants it I could put them in touch with the salvage place owner. Pictures are at www.ezwind.net/jwest/whatsit Jay West

21 years

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drive repair tips?

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

der Mouse <mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca> wrote: > Sending a FORMAT UNIT command isn't enough? It's *supposed* to do a true LLF on a Classic HDD, but I very strongly suspect (close to certainty) that on modern drives it's a dummy, something like "write zeros to all logical blocks" as if by ordinary writes. They probably have stuff like embedded servo (a la RL02) and cannot be LLFed "from scratch", i.e., from a totally degaussed or misaligned state. MS

21 years

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drive repair tips?

by mouse＠Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA

I have a disk drive - a (relatively) modern sealed unit - which appears to have mechanical trouble. The noise it makes spinning up says to my ear "bearing friction". I'm considering taking it apart and lubing the bearing. Of course, this would at best be a temporary fix, since it is on its way out at this point; this is more to gain experience on a throwaway device than to actually recover the drive. (All the bits from it are safe; live mirroring is great for that.) Any tips from the collective wisdom? Obviously, I want to do this in as close to a cleanroom as I can reasonably find, and have the platter assembly open as short a time as I can. But I don't, for example, have any idea what would be a suitable lubricant to use - assuming the bearing isn't a totally sealed assembly itself.... ObOTness thread: the disk itself may be formally on-topic; it's certainly close to - it is stamped "MAR 31 1996". /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

21 years

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PDP11 stuff in OZ

by wacarder＠earthlink.net

> -----Original Message----- > From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> > Sent: Aug 17, 2005 12:30 AM > To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org > Subject: PDP11 stuff in OZ > > If someone is nearby.. > > http://www.psych.usyd.edu.au/pdp-11/equip_list.html If anyone is in Australia and is willing to collect and ship some items to the USA for me, I will be glad to pay you for your time and effort. I have attempted to contact the owner of these items but have not received a response. I would very much like to have the spare 11/40 CPU set since I have both a functional 11/40 and 11/35, as well as a sick 11/35. My 11/40 is part of a historic functional display of a 1970s timesharing academic computer center and I would like to be able to have spares to keep it up and running. If anyone in Australia is willing to help, please contact me off-list at wacarder at usit.net. Thanks, Ashley

21 years

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LGP-21

by cc＠corti-net.de

I've scanned some documents for the LGP-21 (peripheral options, diagnostic programs etc.) and put them on our ftp server: ftp.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pub/cm/lgp21/docs There's a readme file in each directory. Christian

21 years

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Bit Banger was Analog modem emulator?

by swtpc6800＠comcast.net

An early example of a bit banger serial interface was the Motorola 6800 MIKBUG Monitor ROM. It used a parallel interface chip (MC6820 PIA) as a bidirectional serial interface. It would work at 110 and 300 baud (some people clocked it at 1200 baud.) This was the used in original (1975) Southwest Technical Products 6800 computer. Motorola had a real UART (MC6850 ACIA) at the time so I don't know why Motorola did this. SWTPC later switched the their own Monitor ROM and a MC6850 serial port. http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/swtpc_6800.htm Michael Holley

21 years

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PDP11 stuff in OZ

by aek＠bitsavers.org

If someone is nearby.. http://www.psych.usyd.edu.au/pdp-11/equip_list.html

21 years

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Heath ET-3400 Trainer Simulator SW

by phillipmilks＠netzero.com

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: <http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20050811/e3d92654/at…>

21 years

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