From: William Donzelli <aw288 at osfn.org> I'll never forget in the early 1990s, doing my first really big network design (for an at-the-time top 4 cellular phone company, now part of a much bigger cellular phone company). They wanted to move to a routed, IP network from a bridged (!!) SNA+Netbios network. This included a phased move from Token Ring to Ethernet on the LAN side. I should note that this was also one of the larger AS/400 shops around. I created the RFPs, the evaluation criteria, etc., and based on initial research picked a short list of candidate router companies. Cisco, Wellfleet, GDC, 2-3 others I now forget, and IBM with the 6611. I contacted each of the corporate sales reps to explain what I was going to send them and what I expected back. Everyone expressed gratitude that they were allowed to participate, what could they do to help, did I like to play golf, yadda yadda. Except the IBM rep. Paraphrased: ME: Hi...I'm doing the architecture for the new network. I'm going to send you a bunch of requirements, and I'm going to need the following things in return. IBM Sales Drone: <long pause>...Why? ME: Ummm....because we will be selecting a vendor for the routing elements based on this evaluation. ISD: <long pause>...No your not. You're going to buy the new 6611. You're an IBM customer. <- direct quote ME: <long pause>...Really? ISD: Yes, you are. I don't understand why we are even having this conversation. <- also a quote ME: Thanks. I sent the doco over, they didn't respond, then raised hell at the C-level that they hadn't been given the chance to participate when we picked another vendor. My mangement told them to pound sand, and my CIO got mad enoungh to say things that made an IBM VP blush. Good times....good times... Ken