- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

Lights (was: Re: Smithsonian gets it wrong)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Lights (was: Re: Smithsonian gets it wrong) > From: William Donzelli <aw288 at osfn.org> > Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 18:40:51 -0500 (EST) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >> So given the choice, what lighting *is* good? >> >> I'm just thinking that we might have to replace lighting at the museum >> one day - so maybe keeping other options in mind is a good idea, >> providing they're not horribly expensive.... > >I have a book, called "the Care of Art Objects" (I forget the author) that >outlines all of this. > >Lots of interesting content in that book - things you would never know >(like why oak shelves should never be used in archives) - but then again >these folks actually plan on keeping things as close to forever as >possible. > >William Donzelli >aw288 at osfn.org Well for computers especially those with exposed and unshuttered EPROMS any exposure over time to UV light _may_ be problematic. Generally speaking UV is har on a lot of things and florescents are fairly rich in UV, some more than others. That and it tends to distort color rendition if cheap lamps are used. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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VCF questions

by billdeg＠degnanco.com

James, Yes Doug might be perfect. The Mid Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists (MARCH) is in the planning stages for the VCF East to be held next spring. Please contact me off list so that I can get you in touch with the powers that be who arrange speakers for this event. Here is a link for more info on the VCF East: http://www.vintage.org/2006/east/ Bill D > >Sorry for my ignorance - >Who runs the VCF events? >Do they have guest speakers? > <snip> >Would there be an interest in having Doug present, does the VCF have >space in their program for speakers? > -- E N D --

20 years, 9 months

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Ultrix for DECstations

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Ultrix for DECstations > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 20:11:18 -0800 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >On 11/13/2005 at 8:48 PM woodelf wrote: > >>I hate vd ... er vi. I like le myself. t.com for dos. Right now I >>am using >>edit in XP. It comes with windows but for some reason they don't push >>80x24 text displays. > >I'm still using a WYSIWYG text editor that I copied from an issue of >Microcomputing. It's been modified and ported to a number of platforms; >it's very small (just shy of 12K in x86 and smaller in x80). The last >change I made to the version that I'm currently using was to support long >file names in Windoze. I''m guessing a bit, but I suspect that I've been >using it in excess of 25 years. > >Cheers, >Chuck Never saw the article, likely before I was getting Microsystems. Is the source for the 8080/z80 version anywhere on line? Allison

20 years, 9 months

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Atari ST Ephemera

by cclist＠sydex.com

More prowling around yields more stuff... I've discovered that I've got the full set of developer's documentation for the Atari ST (regular and Mega) from around 1988 or so. This is a thick hunk of paper--I kept it in 2 3-inch binders and one 1 1/2" one. It includes Volume 1, No. 1 and No.2 of the "Atari Forum" newsletter. It's got lots of stuff about programming under GEM and TOS, datasheets for the various components, engineering documents, Q&A's for developers, etc. IOW, everything a ST software developer might ever need. I don't think that I ever did anything with this after I unpacked it. The material is in pristine condition. I don't think that the NDA that I signed as part of this deal is in effect, so I believe that I can pass it on without fear of whoever now owns the Atari IP and licenses getting their revenge on me. Is this worth anything or is this curbside recycling material? Cheers, Chuck

20 years, 9 months

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DEC Boards

by pspan＠amerytel.net

Good morning to all, I am finally starting to scrap out my Telcom equipment. Here is a list (so far) of a few of the boards available: 20 ea M7270 processors 5 ea M8045 memories 3 ea M8028 RX 02 int. 2 ea SMS 8" disk int. PN # 0003770-0001 2 ea M8186 processors I would assume condition to be BAD. Most of these boards have been sitting around for 10 years without power. I am going to price the boards out at $ 2.00 each to cover shipping and handling. If you are only interested in one board then I will probably charge more. If no one is interested in the boards, into the scrap box they will go.... Phil

20 years, 9 months

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Ultrix for DECstations

by vp＠cs.drexel.edu

Allison wrote: > I'd forgotton that beast. For laughs I opened a dos box on the NT4 system > and typed edit... lo and behold it's there! Even EDLIN is still there! (at least in NT 4.0 and Win2k). **vp

20 years, 9 months

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Brands you never hear much about

by cclist＠sydex.com

Still prowling through my junk and I discovered that I'd kept the prototype of the terminal that I did for the Fortune Systems 68K Unix box. (Basically a Z80 unit that I don't recall much about--though I've still got source code somewhere). At one time, FS was a hot prospect with a few major Unix names on the payroll. But I've never heard of anyone collecting the boxes. Any reason for this? Cheers, Chuck

20 years, 9 months

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MSCP SCSI controller speed

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

>From a post I made to the PDP-11 newsgroups in the previous millenium: The benchmarks were done under RT11FB 5.7 doing 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, and 64 block-at-a-time READW's and WRITW's to 16384-block data files. A KDJ11B (PDP-11/73) CPU with 2 Megabytes of Clearpoint non-PMI memory was used for the bencharmks. With the SCSI controllers a Barracuda 7200 RPM ST15230N drive was used; with the RQDX3 a RD52 drive was used. Here are the peak data rates measured for read and write 64 blocks-at-a-time: Read Write ---------- ---------- Andromeda SCDC 2.298 MB/s 1.131 MB/s CMD CQD440 2.397 MB/s 1.525 MB/s CMD CQD220 1.418 MB/s 0.882 MB/s CMD CQD220A 2.088 MB/s 1.409 MB/s DEC RQZX1 1.379 MB/s 1.097 MB/s Viking QDT 0.846 MB/s 0.704 MB/s DEC RQDX3 0.164 MB/s 0.161 MB/s

20 years, 9 months

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DEC 3000-300x firmware upgrade

by mokuba＠gmail.com

I've got a DEC 3000-300X (ALPHA! ALPHA!) that I want to run VMS 7.3 on, but I need to do a firmware update. I have a bootp boot image file, but I've not a clue how to set up what I need to do to run it. Anyone able to point me in a good direction?

20 years, 9 months

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LA210 Schematics

by CPUMECH＠aol.com

Repaired quite a few of these. Change the large electrolytic caps in the power supply. They're probably dead.

20 years, 9 months

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local demolition of SAGE building

by Useddec＠aol.com

Hi, I missed that one- Which SAGE is being demolished? I used tok in one of them. Thanks, Paul

20 years, 9 months

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semi-homemade micro

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: semi-homemade micro > From: Wai-Sun Chia <waisun.chia at gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 10:42:45 +0800 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On 11/14/05, Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> wrote: >> > >> >Linux supported CPU's >> >> >Dec Vax >> In rumor only! >> > >Well, NetBSD iit is not. But to say it is just a rumor doesn't do >justice of the work some of the hackers there are contributing. >Disclaimer: I have no relationship with them. > >Extracted from the FAQ: >http://linux-vax.sourceforge.net/newfaq/newfaq.html > This is fairly recent as last I looked (2 years ago) the page was mostly blank. NetBSD is a differnt animal. Still the list of systems like Z80 and some where there used to be a proposed ELKs for never seems to have happend. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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semi-homemade micro

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: semi-homemade micro > From: Wai-Sun Chia <waisun.chia at gmail.com> > Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 10:42:45 +0800 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On 11/14/05, Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> wrote: >> > >> >Linux supported CPU's >> >> >Dec Vax >> In rumor only! >> > >Well, NetBSD iit is not. But to say it is just a rumor doesn't do >justice of the work some of the hackers there are contributing. >Disclaimer: I have no relationship with them. > >Extracted from the FAQ: >http://linux-vax.sourceforge.net/newfaq/newfaq.html Yes! Finally. I'd been looking at the linix will be on VAX for over 10 years and it's finally comming around. Now an ELKS kernal for Z80 maybe... please. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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Was Ultrix for DECstations -- now DEC advances

by Useddec＠aol.com

Hi, Did you want a DECmate I, II , or III? Thanks, Paul

20 years, 9 months

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ULTRIX on DECstations

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

People who are interested in putting ULTRIX on their DECstation/VAX might want to look at the resources put up at http://www.xanthos.se/~joachim/, especially the page at http://www.xanthos.se/~joachim/linx.html, possibly work out some cooperative to conserve bandwidth, . . .

20 years, 9 months

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=== IBM 5110 / 5120 terminator ===

by wayne.smith＠charter.net

> Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 20:36:34 +0100 > From: "Frederic BOSSU" <f5inl at wanadoo.fr> > Subject: === IBM 5110 / 5120 terminator === > To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <FDENJOMFELLFCPHDMBABOEOKCAAA.f5inl at wanadoo.fr> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi ! > > Could anyone give me the REAL pin assignment of the > terminator used on the IBM 5110 / 5120 systems ? > > Has anyone build such a terminator ? > > I tried to build one and I'm fed up with getting always the > same error : I can obtain the file list (using basic command > UTIL DIR,D80 or UTIL DIR,D40) but 5 seconds after giving me > the file list, the systems blocks, the promt disappeared and > I must restard all... No led is lightning on the > pannel...Sometimes I get the 24 or 26 error code (''diskette > error...''is only said in my reference manual : what a help !). > > Very strange diagnostic... > > Thanks for your help ;-) > > Fred. > I have scanned the two pages from the 5120 MIM that address the pinouts. Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any trouble reading this - the pages did not scan that well. http://webpages.charter.net/jpepperman/5120InterfaceCable.pdf -W

20 years, 9 months

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Ultrix for DECstations

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Ultrix for DECstations > From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 20:48:19 -0700 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Bill Sudbrink wrote: > >am using >edit in XP. It comes with windows but for some reason they don't push >80x24 text displays. I'd forgotton that beast. For laughs I opened a dos box on the NT4 system and typed edit... lo and behold it's there! Allison

20 years, 9 months

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IBM 029 or 129

by gcarrick＠cse.uta.edu

This auction was some time ago, but this guys sells all kinds of Unit Record stuff. I think he is in Texas. Gil > -----Original Message----- > From: Lafley77517 at aol.com [mailto:Lafley77517 at aol.com] > Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 1:02 AM > To: gilcarrick at comcast.net > Subject: Re: Question for seller -- Item #2784239371 > > As a general rule older IBM keypunch machines cost more and > are in worst condition. I can sell you a 1971 129 keypunch > in good working condition for $2,000.00 plus shipping or a > 1949 24 or 26 keypunch would cost you $3,000.00 and may not > be in as good condition. A 1965 29 keypunch would be > somewhere in between. > > Thanks for asking, > > Duwayne Lafley >

20 years, 9 months

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Ultrix for DECstations

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: RE: Ultrix for DECstations > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 19:17:50 -0800 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >On 11/13/2005 at 10:10 PM Bill Sudbrink wrote: > >>Uh, no, I meant ex, the line level editor that runs under vi. >>When you can't even get vi to run right (termcaps messed up >>or, in one case I experienced, most control characters being >>filtered/screwed up between me and the system I was trying to >>edit a text file on) give ex a try. > >Wonder if TECO was ever ported to Linux? I'd wonder what TECO wasnt ported to. Then there are editors that while not TECO understand TECO macros at the command level. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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Ultrix for DECstations

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: RE: Ultrix for DECstations > From: "Bill Sudbrink" <wh.sudbrink at verizon.net> > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 22:10:41 -0500 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Allison wrote: >> Bill Sudbrink wrote: >> >Allison wrote: >> > >> >> First choice when all else fails, vi. >> > >> >Can't resist... really, when _ALL_ else fails, ex. >> >> Did you mean ED??? That loathsome excuse for a tool! >> I'd rather hurt myself before using that. Scratch that. >> Every time I've used it, I did hurt myself. > >Uh, no, I meant ex, the line level editor that runs under vi. >When you can't even get vi to run right (termcaps messed up >or, in one case I experienced, most control characters being >filtered/screwed up between me and the system I was trying to >edit a text file on) give ex a try. OH! Yes I've done that with good success. ED (CP/M {ED}, DOS{EDLIN}) is their very unadorned line editors designed to inflict pain. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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local demolition of SAGE building

by john_boffemmyer_iv＠boff-net.dhs.org

I saw this in today's copy of my local newspaper on-line. The location of the building is in New Windsor, NY. Stewart International Airport -as some of you know- sits on the border of the Town of Newburgh and New Windsor. It used to be and still is to a degree, a major Marine, Army and Air Force base. More currently, it is a commercial international airport and a base for the Air Force, local Army and Air Force Reserves and touts a pair of the biggest runways in the USA. It is the 3rd location on the list for emergency landings for the Space Shuttles if something should go wrong. Unfortunately, as this piece suggests, the military has already removed the actual SAGE equipment from the building. I used to go on walks past this building as a kid as there is a path near it that my family would take through a wooded area (scenic stuff) and up until recently, was open to the public, sort of like a park. I figured I'd send this to cctech because it has a lot of historical relevance. -John Boffemmyer IV STORY AS FOLLOWS: July 16, 2005 Cold War building faces colder reality By Jeremiah Horrigan Times Herald-Record jhorrigan at th-record.com New Windsor ? You'll find it on the edge of Stewart International Airport, a windowless, four-story concrete cube that looks like it could withstand a nuclear blast. And that's exactly what it was built to do. If things had gone as many Americans feared during the Cold War, if the Russian bombers had finally come over the horizon, the Semi-Automatic Ground Environment building was the key to the country's military defense system. The building that once thrummed with the tensions of a time when nuclear Armageddon was a constant threat was abandonned by the military decades ago. The unnerving skeleton of its legacy remain, including the war room, where etched-glass maps of the Eastern U.S. display likely Russian targets. Above the maps looms a doomsday tote board, meant to track the "progress" of World War III. Even before the '50s faded and ICBMs became the weapon of choice among the world's super-powers, the SAGE building had become as antiquated as an Edsel. It's now slated for the wrecking ball under the airport's new 20-year master plan for development. And that plan is under siege by a group of people who for years have been laboring to transform the SAGE building into what they call a Cold War Peace Museum. Ulster County Legislator Susan Zimet has spearheaded the effort, lobbying, fundraising and proselytizing on the building's behalf for the past five years. To her, the building isn't a dead relic but a living reminder of an era she believes we forget at our peril. "All the stuff we deal with daily ? terrorism, the possibility of nuclear terror or the situation in Korea ? it all began with the Cold War." Zimet's not much of a history buff herself, and, after years of exploring possibilities, she's doubtful the building is suitable for becoming a first-class museum. But that, she argues, doesn't mean the building should be demolished. Taking it down (at an estimated cost of nearly a million dollars) would be no different than destroying Washington's headquarters in Newburgh, she says. Tanya Vanasse toured the building's interior recently. She wasn't impressed. Vanasse is the airport's director of marketing. She sees no reason to keep the building around. The airport's master plan calls for the building to come down sometime between 2008 and 2012, to make way for a rail yard that would be part of a new train station, according to Zimet. "I can see no viability of making this into a public space. It's far too dangerous, it's got far too many accessibility problems," she said last week. "I could see removing the (etched glass) pieces and building a display around them." Vanasse said the plan is open ended, that no hard-and-fast timetable exists. Nevertheless, Zimet's group is urging people to sign petitions that would preserve the building. In the meantime, the SAGE building, silent and foreboding as a tomb, continues to do what it has always done: It waits. Anti-blast from the past was built to last If it goes, the Semi-Automatic Ground Environment building won't go easily. Its thick, lead-reinforced concrete walls were intended to withstand the ravages of a nuclear holocaust. Only a direct hit could have taken it out. The building was designed in the mid-1950s as part of a network of identical information-gathering centers built throughout the country that was supposed to protect the country's nuclear bomber fleet. Its designers intentionally made it so nondescript that only a handful of military personnel even knew of its existence or purpose. Its computer system was beyond compare, requiring thousands of square feet and at least as many delicate transistors to track potential intruders. Watching the skies at a SAGE building console, said one retired Air Force veteran, was like something out of "Buck Rogers." But, like so many other state-of-the-art defense systems, this one was obsolete almost before it became operational. It was designed to combat nuclear bombers. By the end of the decade, intercontinental ballistic missiles had become the bomb delivery system of choice. The structure was officially decommissioned in 1969. Since then, it has served as a free-trade zone. Its ground floor is now occupied by a chocolate- packaging factory. Jeremiah Horrigan E-mail this story Print this story Subscribe to the Record Today's top news headlines ? DPW blackmail unfolds ? Tragedy strikes family ? Locals doubt camp's zoning ? Cold War building faces colder reality ? County trash hauler plans recycling fee See all of today's news stories. Online special features News ? Remembering the fallen A tribute to the local soldiers we have lost. ? Middletown on Trial Continuing coverage of the Mayor Destefano trial. ? Report Card 2005 A report card on our schools. Includes statistics on our local districts. Have the top headlines from the Times Herald-Record e-mailed to you every morning. Sign up here. Have a tip about a news story? Contact THR Managing Editor Meg McGuire at mmcguire at th-record.com or call 346-3041. SPOTLIGHT ON ... Otterkill Golf & Country Club "Orange County's Premier Golf Course." 100 Otter Road Campbell Hall, NY 845-427-2020 ? Visit Website Record Online is brought to you by the Times Herald-Record, serving New York's Hudson Valley and the Catskills. 40 Mulberry Street * PO Box 2046 * Middletown, NY 10940 Telephone 845-341-1100 or 800-295-2181 outside the Middletown, N.Y., area. Copyright Orange County Publications. All rights reserved. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.15/49 - Release Date: 7/14/2005

20 years, 9 months

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Tandy 1400 LT

by sickler2＠cavenet.com

HI , i hope this is a ok adress , i think that 4 yrs is a bit much i bought a tandy 1400 lt and it works fine ... when i try to format a disk , i get a 360 not the 720 ???? , i have and old ibm lt that willl make 720 that the tandy will use ok , so what gives thanks george

20 years, 9 months

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semi-homemade micro

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: semi-homemade micro > From: Mike <kenziem at sympatico.ca> > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 20:29:35 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On November 13, 2005 6:18 pm, woodelf wrote: >> Allison wrote: >> that I know of that you could get source for to adapt to your >> computer. Once the PC arrived >> open source vanished. Sure linux is open source but who can read or >> adpt the several meg >> of source to a small machine. > >Linux supported CPU's >Dec Vax In rumor only! However Linux (or elks) on TI9900, PDP-11, Z80, 6502, 6800 and 6809 seems to be missing. For those you have CP/M, OS9, and others but not linux. However the Z80 there is UZI-unix. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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semi-homemade micro

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: semi-homemade micro > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 17:33:32 -0800 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >On 11/13/2005 at 5:19 PM woodelf wrote: > >>>Want to try an emulation project? take a 8048 or 49, strap EA >>>(uses external rom then) and write a program to make port 0 and >>>some latches and stuff on the bus port look like a version of >>>your favorite CPU of any word length. Sure it will be slow >>>(8049 @11mhz run instructions at 1.3us) but different! hang >>>ram rom and IO even front pannel on the emulation and you have >>>anything you can imagine and fit in 4k or eprom and 128bytes >>>of internal ram (8049). > >Why not something like an Atmel ATMega? Fast and cheap. That would work too. I picked 8049 or 8051 series as they are also cheap often found in useless equipment and tools to work with them are free and I have a coffee can full of them. ;) At the other extreme a PIC might do a it too. The idea remains no differnt than using a PC to emulate Xyz save for a smaller machine IE: a chip maybe slower and embeddable. The side benefit is the "microcode" can have a debugger built in. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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semi-homemade micro

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: semi-homemade micro > From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 17:19:15 -0700 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Allison wrote: > >>What do you mean by "Well what about them?"? >> >> >> >Tell me more about them! Non 8 bit word length computers. I think there is a 22bit forth machine out there and ofcourse people have done FPGA PDP10 and I also heard once someone doing an 18bit PDP7. >All my small C stuff is stored safe in my bitbucket. It has too many >8080 design gotya's to generate code for the cpu design I have now. >I don't have register to regsister addressing and indexing from the >A register. And that stopped you? really I have a SmallC compiler that produced ok 8080 code. By OK it's as good as an 8080 can do. >Out here all the junk is dead PC's. :( Thats largely what we have here these days. However 386 and 486 board have nice cache rams some TTL and the like. That and I find in piles. >>Want to try an emulation project? take a 8048 or 49, strap EA >>(uses external rom then) and write a program to make port 0 and >>some latches and stuff on the bus port look like a version of >>your favorite CPU of any word length. Sure it will be slow >>(8049 @11mhz run instructions at 1.3us) but different! hang >>ram rom and IO even front pannel on the emulation and you have >>anything you can imagine and fit in 4k or eprom and 128bytes >>of internal ram (8049). Those 8048s and 49s are common and >>easily found in keyboards (LK201 has the faster better 8051!) >>and is a cool old cpu to work with. >> >That is a nice idea! Everyone has done the PC emulating whatever. Why not take a single chip micro and use that to emulate another micro as hardware? Same idea maybe slow but for a lot of things speed is not the whole world. I did it on paper for PDP8 and it was possible using an 11mhz 8049 to come within 1/10 the speed of a real 8. I guess a 36bit machine could be done as well (though really slow.). Also a front pannel could be programmed into it as well (maybe a speed hit). Any cpu that gets an instruction from memory and then executes it can be emulated that way. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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Wangtek DC-300 drive and controller

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Wangtek DC-300 drive and controller > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 22:00:06 -0800 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >On 11/13/2005 at 12:44 AM Allison wrote: > >>It might be QIC, QIC02 or QIC24 and definately not SASI or SCSI though >>they existed at the time. > >Allow me to clarify: > >The interface from the controller to the host is what I'm asking about, not >the interface from the controller to the drive, which I'm almost certain is >QIC-02 or some variety thereof. > >Cheers, >Chuck If not sasi/scsi it could be "host" as in the hard disk bridge boards. Host interface is IDE of the time as it's a register interface with re/, wr/, a few address lines, data and reset more or less. Makes it generic. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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semi-homemade micro

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: semi-homemade micro > From: Scott Stevens <chenmel at earthlink.net> > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 19:11:13 -0500 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 17:42:02 -0500 >Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> wrote: > >> > >> >Subject: semi-homemade micro >> > From: compoobah at valleyimplants.com >> > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 11:22:23 -0600 >> > To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >> > >> >All the talk about building a mini from TTL got me thinking about homebuild >> >micros, and what one would look like if I decided to build one >> >(been playing with my IMSAI, too, which probably accounts for some of it) >> >> >=0D=0A >> >> Using RTF?? >> >> >RISC would be out, due to difficulty of assembly coding, >> >and 8086 seems a bit dull. >> >Z-8000, TMS9900, and RCA1802 seem unavailable, and 6120 doesn't >> >have many registers.=0D=0A >> >> >> The 1802s are available as is the 6120 (spare time gizmos has kitted both). >> (Harris makes the 1802 and 6120.) old 1802 can be salvaged from EFjohnson >> made VHF mobile radios of early 80s vintage and 6120s from defunct >> DECmateII/IIIs. >> > >(echoing a sentiment expressed here earlier) Perfectly good DECmateIIs?? No I mean defunct ones or as I found a few as just the main board from DMII/III as salvage (no case PS or ??). Good ones work and you use them as is and enjoy them. Besides a working DM runs OS278 and WPS both useful! >I have 6100s, too, if you want a scaled back version. The 6100 is a >great 'easy' first processor to use- all static CMOS with very lax >timing requirements for the clock signal. 12 bits, though. And, >of course, the PDP-8 instruction set. PDP-8 interuction set reminds me how programming can be fun. Enough of the things needed to write practical code but not one drop more. That and you can remember the whole instruction set and it's opcodes! I have a base 6100 machine, Intersil super sampler with with 4kram and the monitor, (rom can be dropped after loading ram low). Allison

20 years, 9 months

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semi-homemade micro

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: semi-homemade micro > From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 16:18:41 -0700 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Allison wrote: > >>Uhm, what about 12bit[OS8 srt-8]? There are few othter word lenths >>than those that are not unobtainium. >> >> >> >Well what about them? What do you mean by "Well what about them?"? >>>You can only get the 16 machines easly and resonable source of a OS. >>> >>Explain that from your perspective. >> >My perspective is things that I have seen in my past other than DEC or >IBM or other BIG IRON. >That was mostly 8080's , Z80's and other items advertised in BYTE. CP/M >was the only one >that I know of that you could get source for to adapt to your >computer. Once the PC arrived >open source vanished. Sure linux is open source but who can read or >adpt the several meg >of source to a small machine. Minux was a nice try but it lacked a C >Compiler. Small C went >a DEAD end route as you could only use it if you bought the out of print >books. Really! theres more stuff about smallC than ever on line. Maybe back then life was hard but now with the 'net and Google I'm getting to try and use those things that back then were either too exotic or hard to find and maybe even too expensive [especially hardware]. Even Minix has evolved (V3.x now). >>>The 68000 yes still works best with 64k addressing. >>>Oddly the only micocomputer chip I like ( other than the 6800/6809) is >>>National Semiconductor's 16032 is another chip that you could never get. >>> >> >>T-11 regular instruction set of the PDP-11. Not too hard to find. >>Z8001 and Z8002s I have a few of. Z280, theres an interesting varient >>of Z80 with 24bit MMU that looks like the DEC PDP11 MMU (even I&D!). >> >Yes I know I keep forgeting the 11 but I got forced into using PC's so >only now do I have the time and a tiny amount a money for classic computers. My last employer went downhill as did my job with it so I have time and very little expendable cash. However with junk, spares and imagination I achieve a lot with near nothing. PCs I find costly and less productive. Maybe I'm more of the do it and don't tell me how it's hard person. I'd be dangerous if I had gobs of cash and free time converge. >From scrap and salvage I'm building a lot of stuff around here from 6M VHF SSB radios to really oddball 1802 systems. Want to try an emulation project? take a 8048 or 49, strap EA (uses external rom then) and write a program to make port 0 and some latches and stuff on the bus port look like a version of your favorite CPU of any word length. Sure it will be slow (8049 @11mhz run instructions at 1.3us) but different! hang ram rom and IO even front pannel on the emulation and you have anything you can imagine and fit in 4k or eprom and 128bytes of internal ram (8049). Those 8048s and 49s are common and easily found in keyboards (LK201 has the faster better 8051!) and is a cool old cpu to work with. Allison

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semi-homemade micro

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: semi-homemade micro > From: compoobah at valleyimplants.com > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 11:22:23 -0600 > To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >All the talk about building a mini from TTL got me thinking about homebuild >micros, and what one would look like if I decided to build one >(been playing with my IMSAI, too, which probably accounts for some of it) >=0D=0A Using RTF?? >RISC would be out, due to difficulty of assembly coding, >and 8086 seems a bit dull. >Z-8000, TMS9900, and RCA1802 seem unavailable, and 6120 doesn't >have many registers.=0D=0A The 1802s are available as is the 6120 (spare time gizmos has kitted both). (Harris makes the 1802 and 6120.) old 1802 can be salvaged from EFjohnson made VHF mobile radios of early 80s vintage and 6120s from defunct DECmateII/IIIs. Bob Armstrong [Spare time gizmos] has both the ELF2k and Embedded ELF (1802) with an option for IDE/compactflash disk to run ELF OS. The 6120 has IDE interface and even a front pannel option. they aren't 100% kits but all the seamingly unobtainium [PCboard, PALS/GALS, PROMS and CPU] are covered. Z8000 can be found but takes a bit of hunting. The easiest source for 9900s is an old 99/4 console thats munged. the 6120 (PDP-8 with EMA) is a great programming machine. Minimal junk to get in the way and it has the PDP-8a dual stacks as well. >Looks like the best available ideas from an ease-of building and >obtaining would be Z-80 (or variant), 6809, or 68000 (close to >top in complexity, esp. if a front panel is wanted). >6502 could also be a possiblity.=0D=0A >I suppose either native IDE or another system serving as a storage >server would be the way to go, the IDE could either connect to a >old drive or a smallish CF card, and flash firmware would probably >be best, or EEPROM. SRAM seems to be the way to go for smaller >systems.=0D=0A IDE is a easy interface for most micros and it's been put on 1802, 6120, 6502, 6809, Z80(family), 8085, TI9900, Z8000, 68000 and likely I've forgotten a few dozen. One you didn't mention is the T-11 (base pdp-11 40 pin chip) as these can be salvaged from VT240/241 terminals, HSC50s, RQDX1/2/3 controllers and a few other DEC boards. Interface is 8085ish and that and 32k of ram would be a PDP11, the IO is tough as if you wish to run DEC OS you must simulate DEC devices (some are easy). >Just wondering what the thoughts of the list would be for specs >of a "new" hobbyest micro.=0D=0A=0D=0A First off any cpu is reasonable. Depends on preferences, what you have and maybe phase of the moon. Same for level of complexity. At one end you have the COSMAC ELF with 256bytes of ram and rudimentary front pannel simple and inexpensive. At the other extreme some of the Z80 flavors like the P112 (everything including the kitchen sink). Then there is do you want a bus or no, expansion or no, fully loaded or just minimal. I consider 1802 8085, z80, 6502 and 6800/6809 all very easy to use and interface. Even the TI9900 is not to bad if you have the clock generator chip [9904]. Believe it or not the 68000 is fairly straight forward and only bit worse than 6809. the Z8000 is hardest of the ones mentioned as the bus is more complex. For most a front pannel adds significant complexity, notable exception is 8035 (8048) and 1802. If I'm doing Z80, I pretty much expect to run a language in rom or OS such as CP/M. with those in mind the must haves are: Z80, z180, Z18x RAM at least 32k (more is good) boot rom 2 serial ports Console and link to PC for download. 1 Parallel port for printer some kind of mass storage (Floppy, IDE, CF, Flashram) However you really asking an open question with no direction given. Allison

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Was Ultrix for DECstations -- now DEC advances

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Was Ultrix for DECstations -- now DEC advances > From: Bill Pechter <pechter at gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:01:20 -0500 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >>>d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! >>>pechter-at-gmail.com >> >Came up with that one night thinking about DEC's UDA-50, HSC50 and >clustering. With 8 uVAX of vatious types LAVC is really nice. Still cant do that with a PC. >DEC always had stuff that was easy for the end user. Not always for the >programmer (TKB taskbuilder comes to mind...) TKB had more options than >EMACS had special keystrokes. TKB was strange and wonderful. >I never did get along much with RSX as more than a user. Coding under >RT11 was great and RSTS/E Basic Plus was slick. RT-11 is my favorite PDP-11 OS and I have it for all my 11s. RSTS/E is one I used and liked. >Multiuser Basic on RT11 was slick. Never used it. Would have liked to. >I had 4 terminals off a PDT11/150 >supplying different functions... Program input on one, console on >another, monitor of memory on a third, serial printer on another. In >60kb of memory. There's a PDT11/150 selling on Ebay now. >I thought about it but the storage was too limiting. I have a PDT11/130 (tu58 in a vt100). sloooow. Fun! >Rumor has it some hacker at DEC took the signals off the bus and was >working on a hard disk that would look like an RK or something like an RL. I can believe it. IDE is a simple interface and can be made to look like most anything with a brain dead 8048. My favorite small 11 is a BA11VA shoebox with 11/23, 256kb ram, DLV11J and MRV11(boot proms) with a TU58 emulator (8051 and for 128kx8 rams) that is faster than the real tu58 and run RT-11 XM with bas RT11 in VM: >>Thankyou for that! Some of the things I was used to at DEC I still haven't >>found a PC version that is close. If there ever was one that would be >>VAXNotes, really great collaboritive tool. >> >>Anyone ever do a wintel editor (NOT WORD) that had a single key for advance >>cursor one word? >> >Hell. I want a Decmate box just for WPS... I have a DMIII for that reason runs OS278 and WPS. >I've got WPS-80... but I'd love gold-key word processing on Windows... ME TOO! >One time I tried getting SmallEDT up on CP/M 80...to give me EDT on CP/M. Yucky. For CP/M I have VEDIT and thats as clost to EDT ot VAXedt as you can get. In command mode the same teco macros run. It's configurable so a VT100 keypad does the expected EDT stuff. Never got the PC version but it was supposed to be the same thing. >The wife was amazed how easy WPS was to learn for an untrained novice at >the keyboard. Wordstar was hell and WordPerfect required all the >special keyboard overlays... My partner also like WPS still and uses PCs all day. She was also a former digit and learned the DM/wps first and found the PC was crude. Allison

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Reverse Engineering 15 yr old electronics

by jce＠seasip.demon.co.uk

Paul Koning <pkoning at equallogic.com> writes: : The only way I can think of is to take a large piece of paper, draw : the components (ICs, etc.), then trace each etch on the PCB. You : might use a felt tip pen to put a dab of color on each pin whose : connection you have marked on your drawing. If you've got a digital camera, take pictures of both sides of the PCB, and you can then draw on the pictures using a graphics program. -- John Elliott

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Smithsonian gets it wrong

by vp＠cs.drexel.edu

Pictures from the Smithsonian http://users.starpower.net/dj.taylor/Vax1.JPG VAX MINICOMPUTER Digital Equipment Corporation's VAX minicomputer, first introduced in 1976, provided enough processing power for complex design problems, but at a much lower cost than had previously been available. This meant that individuals engineers could have the fill use of a computer without having to share it with their colleagues. The VAX became the workhorse or aerospace engineering. The model displayed here, a MicroVAX II was introduced in 1985. Museum people! Oh well! They can obviously read, but cannot understand. Hello?? The label says its a *MICRO*VAX, and if its a uVAX, then its not a mini. Also, calling the baby-sized uVAX a mini gives visitors who may have never seen a mini-computer the wrong idea as to what a mini-computer looks like. Sure I'll accept that its *compatible* with a VAX (I'll even ignore the minor business of emulating a small part of the instruction set :-), but is not a VAX. At the University of Pennsylvania here in Philadelphia they have a VLSI version of the ENIAC (some student project) but no-one in their right mind would show that microprocessor next to a sign that says here is a picture of ENIAC. **vp

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Infos needed: INCAA - PIT

by thomas.seidel＠gmail.com

Hi all, A colleague just picked up the board of an "INCAA PIT" and handed it over to me. Looks like a programmable interface converter, it has two DB25 connectors and a 6800 CPU. The two ROMs are labelled "PIT 1985" and there are two RAMs (SRM2064 & TMM2016) . What is the box doing? Are there any manuals available? It's possible to program the CPU directly via the DB25 connector? Any hints? TIA for your help, --Thomas

20 years, 9 months

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SAIC V2-LC computers, need hard drives

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: SAIC V2-LC computers, need hard drives > From: Patrick Jankowiak <recycler at swbell.net> > Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 23:22:14 -0600 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >I've started working on my small pile of SAIC V2-LC computers, but run into >some snags with the disk drives. > >For those that do not know of them, these are OEM-for-military portable >computers with a 386 or 486 processor. The hard disk is generally a Conner >CP30204 IDE drive, enclosed in a special case. The drive is the same >dimensions as the common IDE drive used in PCs today. The 3.5" form factor, >and about 3/4" tall. > >The Conner CP30204 has the following specs: > >size = 212 MB >CYL = 683 >Heads = 16 >Sectors = 38 >WP = 0 >LZ = 683 > >One necessary feature of this kind of drive is a an additional small 3-pin >connector for power, on the opposide end of the IDE connector from the >usual PC-style 4-pin connector. I have seen this only on Conner drives. >Might be on others, don't know. > I have two connors one21mb, one 43mb and the other 400. Also the seagate ST3096 85mb has that same connector (I think thats when seagate absorbed connor. Sorry they are not for sale. There is nothing special about that connector that the regular 4pin can be used with an adaptor. Laptops used the threepin for space reasons only, smaller connector. >In any case, I am looking for either cased or naked drives. I have 6 >machines and two 'good' hard drives. If anyone has an IDE drive with the >aforementioned small 3-pin connector, please let me know. I'm willing to >take a shot. > >-Also looking for 4 or 8 meg 30-pin simms for same. I keep the 4megs or larger parts. I'm swiming in the 1meg 30pins. >I have managed to cram windows 95 onto one of these little beasts, and it >is quite nice, even if slow. The 400mb Connor ran w95b with 8mb ram in a 386/25 the system with NE2000 NIC was used for a printserver! I for one am not surprized. Allison

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Ultrix for DECstations

by waisun.chia＠gmail.com

On 11/11/05, Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote: > At 11:59 PM +0800 11/10/05, Wai-Sun Chia wrote: > >On 11/10/05, Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> wrote: > > > The problem is that Ultrix doesn't *feel* all that different from NetBSD. > > > >I wouldn't know that until I've checked it out, wouldn't I? > >Now you've gone and spoiled it..:-) > > Personally I bought the DECstation I have somewhere specifically to > run NetBSD, not that I could tell you where that system is at the > moment. Something to consider about Ultrix is that it is quite old > at this point, and doesn't get any updates. NetBSD does. There are people running Unix V6 on their 11/40...err..so what's your point? :-) Or have you forgotten what which list you're in? :-)

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Wangtek DC-300 drive and controller

by cclist＠sydex.com

I've got a Wangtek DC-300 tape drive (model 54590) and a controller with a 5.25" footprint. The controller has a 50-conductor edge connector keyed the same way as the drive connector, so I'm assuming that the drive is connected there. The controller also has a 50 pin male header. I believe the controller is also a Wangtek model WT05ZK. It's got an 8085A-2 on it, as well as the usual support chips (8257 DMAC AM9128 PIC). Chip dates are 1984. What's the interface to the controller? SASI? Anyone know what the command set might be? Cheers, Chuck

20 years, 9 months

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Ultrix for DECstations

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Ultrix for DECstations > From: Adrian Graham <witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk> > Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 19:45:08 +0000 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Yup, and it's good to watch people's faces when they don't believe that such >behaviour is possible. I also had some fun last week with someone who'd been >'educated' in the ways of Windows 'clusters' - it took him several minutes >to come to terms with a filesystem that was accessible by any machine in the >cluster *at the same time* and one that was set up in minutes. He wanted to >know why such a filesystem wasn't everywhere and I couldn't honestly answer >him other than saying 'cost'. > >A That and MOP load were wonderful. I've tried to do diskless client under winders (95 through NT4/server) and no one can say how it's done but all said it could be. Gah! Who was it that had the signline of something like: Don't you wish you could buy now what DEC had then. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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More on my HP7245A problem

by brushman＠esper.com

I have an HP plotter that's been seriously picked over. I bought it after it was parted out, just to get the pinch rollers. I've looked it over and can't find a model number anywhere, as a lot of the outer casing is gone. There is a little handwritten sticker in the bottom that says a few numbers, initials and 7580. That sounds familiar, but it's been months since I bought it, and can't remember. The servo(?) motors are still there, and a few small boards near them, but the bigger ones are all gone. If you could point me where to look, it might have the parts.

20 years, 9 months

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DEC backplane repair

by chd_1＠nktelco.net

What is the best way to fix a wire wrapped backplane? I have a pdp-11/40 with a short to ground in one of the backplane runs. I probed the backplane with a wooden stick and with some wire tyes and the short went away. I have a pretty good idea which segment of wire is the problem. I have probed the area again and I can't get it to come back. So, what should I do? 1. Be happy it is working. Note the problem in my log book. Wait for it to happen again. 2. Replace that run in the backplane. I figure I will have to replace most of the run because this segment is on the lowest wrap level and in the middle of the run, so I have to replace this one and the ones on either side. I have done some wire wrapping, but this thing is very intimidating. Replacing the wire is easy, but I am afraid that taking out the old ones will create another problem. These backplanes have the wires pretty taught and they are pulled over square edged pins. How fragile is the backplane wiring? If you have a PDP-11/40 then the KM11 is your friend. I have been troubleshooting this problem for a while, but after I handbuild a KM11 (from Tony Duell's notes), the problem was obvious.

20 years, 9 months

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ONYX - was Re: Corvus (was Fortune Systems)

by cheri-post＠web.de

Hello all, as far as I know, Onyx delivered the first microcomputer ever in combination with a Unix called ONIX. The name of the system was C8000 or C8002, don't remember well. I own such a box but the documentation is missing. Maybe somebody else could explain, why they went out of business quite qickly. What I've been knowing so far is that documents are near to non-existing. :-( I have lots of tapes with the original ONIX on, but my system is bad. Does somebody else have such a *working* beastie? Or boards they wish to trade/sell? In my opinion, the software needs to be saved, in the case that tapes are still readable!!! Regards, Pierre > So, in the firmament of micro Unix systems, where does Onyx (or Onyx+IMI) > fit into the picture? Just another Unix box or something unusual? > > Cheers, > Chuck > > ______________________________________________________________ Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS! Jetzt bei WEB.DE FreeMail: http://f.web.de/?mc=021193

20 years, 9 months

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Wangtek DC-300 drive and controller

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Wangtek DC-300 drive and controller > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 21:26:33 -0800 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >I've got a Wangtek DC-300 tape drive (model 54590) and a controller with a >5.25" footprint. The controller has a 50-conductor edge connector keyed >the same way as the drive connector, so I'm assuming that the drive is >connected there. The controller also has a 50 pin male header. I believe >the controller is also a Wangtek model WT05ZK. It's got an 8085A-2 on it, >as well as the usual support chips (8257 DMAC AM9128 PIC). Chip dates are >1984. > >What's the interface to the controller? SASI? Anyone know what the >command set might be? > >Cheers, >Chuck It might be QIC, QIC02 or QIC24 and definately not SASI or SCSI though they existed at the time. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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semi-homemade micro

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

All the talk about building a mini from TTL got me thinking about homebuild micros, and what one would look like if I decided to build one (been playing with my IMSAI, too, which probably accounts for some of it) RISC would be out, due to difficulty of assembly coding, and 8086 seems a bit dull. Z-8000, TMS9900, and RCA1802 seem unavailable, and 6120 doesn't have many registers. Looks like the best available ideas from an ease-of building and obtaining would be Z-80 (or variant), 6809, or 68000 (close to top in complexity, esp. if a front panel is wanted). 6502 could also be a possiblity. I suppose either native IDE or another system serving as a storage server would be the way to go, the IDE could either connect to a old drive or a smallish CF card, and flash firmware would probably be best, or EEPROM. SRAM seems to be the way to go for smaller systems. Just wondering what the thoughts of the list would be for specs of a "new" hobbyest micro.

20 years, 9 months

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Fortune Systems (Brands you never hear much about)

by aek＠bitsavers.org

>But I've never heard of anyone collecting the boxes. Any reason >for this? Probably the same reason no one saved Onyx or old Corvus 68k Unix boxes. The Fortune was somewhat more interesting in that they made an attempt to package a 68K unix box as a biz desktop, but this all happened at the time that AT-class machines took over the world. A friend of mine who came from Bell Labs had one, and wasn't very happy with what they had done with it if you actually wanted to use it for programming. There are a few people who still have systems made the SUN Multibus CPUs (Callan, Forward Tech, et al) I picked up some of the Fortune boards as they showed up in the mid 80's in surplus places, but got rid of them since they really weren't that interesting, and were pretty much impossible to get docs on.

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Collectables?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Collectables? > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 22:04:01 -0800 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >On 11/13/2005 at 12:29 AM Allison wrote: > >>Oh, the microFlame. Never saw a hobbiest system of one. I think the only > >>customers that ever saw one were military contractors. Tried to buy one >>and got blown of by the fairchild rep. I do have a die in lucite >>paperweight for that effort from one of their promotions. > >I got the same treatment from the TI rep when I asked about the I2L version >of the 9900. Must have also been meant for the military. > >Shame--I liked the instruction set on the Nova a lot more than the PDP8. > Nova appealed to me as it had a pdp-8 feel but 16 bit. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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HP 9845 C with 280 option startup failure

by vp＠cs.drexel.edu

Tequi Lizer <tequilizer at gmx.net> wrote: > However I recently acquired a system 45B/C exercise > cartridge. The tape contains a couple of memory checks among other tests > and supports autostart. Are you sure the tape you have is working? Original HP tapes from the 70s and early 80s are no longer working. For more info read this article which is a summary of an earlier discussion thread on this list. http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/forum.cgi?read=81293#81293 **vp

20 years, 9 months

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removing parts from PCBs

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: removing parts from PCBs > From: compoobah at valleyimplants.com > Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 20:31:31 -0600 > To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >I've seen several references to using torches to remove DIPs from PCBs. Are there any specific things to keep in mind to avoid heat damage? Are you talking propane plumber's blowtorches? Dang, thats one long line! Yes, work fast. Myself I torch the bottom and use a spring loaded chip extractor. That and a pliers or tiny screwdriver to straighten any bent pins keeping it in the board. Success rate to date is 99% (board was known bad before salvage). Allison

20 years, 9 months

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HP7596A

by brushman＠esper.com

I'm in the sign business, so most of what's being discussed here is beyond me, but I do have a fascination with old plotters and computers. I have an operating HP7596A. I saw a posting about that model in the archives. This is what I've learned about it: Cable must be specific for that model. Pin#20 is critical, without it, you get buffer overflow. I bought a CD from ebay that has 3 manuals on it. Real handy. I already had the paperback user's manual, but the other two are more detailed about error codes and maintenance. I was surprised to see that Windows98 still had a driver for that old plotter, but the friend that told me about it said there is a better driver from Winline. I was told that the Roland company copied some of the technology for their sign plotters from HP, so much so that the pens are interchangeable. All I know is that the pens I bought for the HP fit perfectly in the Roland (pnc1100), and I didn't need to buy a swivel knife for the HP, as the one >from the Roland fit in it. Now I can cut as well as draw with the HP. But don't get any bright ideas about newfound wealth from the sign trade. Ha! SATURATED market. Somewhere, but I can't remember, maybe hidden in the HP site, is an interchange list, that tells what parts are interchangeable with other models. Real handy for buying off ebay. I bought this plotter from a HUGE place that was being built near Crossville Tenn. USA. They said they have the ability to break down and recycle computer parts. They put whatever looks useable up for sale. Worth looking into?

20 years, 9 months

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New here...

by brushman＠esper.com

Hi, by the standards of what I've seen here, I'm a computer novice, but probably no less zealous! I've got a few questions: Is this starting a new thread? And, how do I respond to a specific thread? I've got an operating HP7596A, and a parts plotter (not 7596A) that's pretty much picked over,but I wanted to respond to the question/thread about the HP7345A. Thanks for any help.

20 years, 9 months

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AHA 3985 SCSI RAID adapter, NIB

by cclist＠sydex.com

PCI interface, SCSI-2 (not wide SCSI). Still shrink-wrapped. Let me know if you're interested. I'm thinking $50 would be fine. Cheers, Chuck

20 years, 9 months

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FPGA VAX update, now DIY TTL computers

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: FPGA VAX update, now DIY TTL computers > From: Scott Stevens <chenmel at earthlink.net> > Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 19:27:33 -0500 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 17:16:54 -0500 >Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> wrote: > >> > >> >Subject: Re: FPGA VAX update, now DIY TTL computers >> > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) >> > Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 21:33:43 +0000 (GMT) >> > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org >> > >> >> >> >> On 11/11/2005 at 11:12 PM woodelf wrote: >> >> >> >> >PS. As for getting 7400 off scrap boards, if I had the scrap boards I >> >> >would most likely try to get the scrap item working again. :D >> > >> >Me too. I've got piles of obscure boards that I'd like to get going again >> >sometime. Most have no real practical function, but are part of the >> >history of computing/electronics. >> > >> >About the only thing I'll raid for parts are no-name clone PC >> >motherboards and cards.. And those are not a good source of standard TTL, >> >alas. >> > >> >> >> >> There are plenty of junk boards that have no particular useful function. >> >> I've got a bunch of ISA cards that I salvaged. All were old models of a >> >> gizmo that appeared to a PC as a monochrome adapter, but which translated >> >> the CPU writes to video memory to serial codes to a VT-220 type terminal. >> > >> >Now that sounds unusual enough to be very interesting. Put it this way, >> >if I had something like that I'd be trying to track down a dump of that >> >missing ROM. I would not be raiding it for parts. >> > >> >-tony >> >> There are tons of mostly unidentifyable boards with usable parts or we >> know what they are and maybe they even work but heck there's a stack >> of 100 in the corner with good parts for salvage. >> >> Examples of salvage to me XT clones that were never rare, 386 and 486 >> boards with salvageable parts. A sharp TV with a dead red drive from >> a doitall chip is junk for stripping. Non-salvage items, things I >> keep and fix like my uVAX ADVICE as it's an in circuit emulator for >> the uVAX chip so it both maybe the last in existance and unusual. >> >> There is junk and not. The junk is there to make the not junk work. >> One can have too much junk, rarely! >> > >XT and XT clone motherboards are becoming increasingly rare. 286 and 386 motherboards are falling into that class rapidly. 486 motherboards are still around but gradually becoming rare, too. > >What I have lying around in big annoying quantities at this point in time is all Pentium and Pentium II motherboards. And actually, most of them are 'lying around' because they've become defective and due to the finer pitch and custom-chip construction are unservicible. All the XT hardware I still have is either working or easily repairable. > >Full AT hardware, i.e. motherboards before the 'Baby AT' generation, is close to being 'key' as far as scarcity. The hardware of that era was a magnitude of scale more expensive than the huge fleet 'Baby AT' that came after it. And much of it was built like a Sherman Tank, as compared to the disposable humvee quality of the Baby AT era hardware. Early and slow (less than 16 MHz) full AT '386 motherboards are quite rare now. (aside- yes, in the eyes of the military the Humvee, like the Jeep before it, is a cheap throwaway transport) > >And oddly, at this point in time, people like me find ourselves with far more middle-era Sun Microsystems hardware than we can use. Those nice little lunchbox Sparcs and Pizza Box systems are plentiful and you can cart them off in whatever quantity they are available at surplus gear auctions. They used to be the star item at said auctions. > >There are historical books now that show all the wonderful architecture that has been destroyed, i.e. the 'Lost Twin Cities' book and video series highlights some marvelous buildings that were demolished in the name of 'progress.' Time rolls on, and what's missed sorely 20 years after is always whatever was knocked down. This also remains the case with old computer gear. Nobody imagined ten years ago that anybody would have any use for a 8 MHz full-AT 80386 motherboard, so nobody kept any. > >Ummm. Same as it ever was. Save for the INboard386 (38616 for AT processor replacement) and the SIIG3000 bick thats a real 5mb, IDE disk and floppy 386/16 powered system I keep as it's plain handy! It not only does VGA but RS170 video. I do have a small footprint 386/25 (or 8mhz with turbo jumper off) board I keep as its plain cute and works too. Nope nobody kept them. ;) Allison

20 years, 9 months

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More VCF coverage

by news＠computercollector.com

http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=11044167 ----------------------------------------- Evan Koblentz's personal homepage: http://www.snarc.net Computer Collector Newsletter: >> http://news.computercollector.com Mid-Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists & Museum: >> http://www.marchclub.org >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/

20 years, 9 months

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Collectables?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Collectables? > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 19:40:32 -0800 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >On 11/12/2005 at 10:10 PM Allison wrote: > >>Original topic: I'd like to get that Polymorphic to build a small system. >> >>I'm thinking Cpro CPUZ, Cpro Disk1A, Interfacer-II and Ram22. That will >>build a z80, floppy interfaced, 256k with enough parallel IO to do an >>IDE. > >It's yours as a bare board for USD $10 and with 6 nice new gold-plated >connectors $20. Shipping extra. I seem to recall that Polymophic tied the >data in and data out together on their boards, but the MB doesn't show >that. 6??? I thought it was four slots. It's a deal, I'll get you you off line. >I used to have the IMSAI floppy disk system too, but that wasn't engineered >nearly as well as the CPU box. One small power supply for each Calcomp >floppy with some blinkin LED's on a small front panel. I retired the IMSAI >FDC and Calcomps (the stepper motors eventually both shorted out). >Replaced the drives with Siemens double-sided units and used Don Tarbell's >FDC. Much improvement. I used that setup until I retired the system. The >MITS 4K DRAM boards got replaced with some SSM SRAM (lots of 2102's) >boards. The CPU was a Z80 board of uncertain vintage. > >I suppose the whole mess could be replaced with a Rabbit CPU and a one-chip >FDC. Yep but not near as fun or noisy. >>On a related note I've been doing some 1802 coding and that 1977 NS* >>box is still running Avocets 1802 assembler under cp/m. Still kicking >>after 27+ years. > >The 1802 was barely capable as a CPU. The only redeeming thing was that it >was static CMOS and could be run down to a DC clock rate. But that was >true of the IM6100, too, wasn't it? Yes the CMOS 6100 and 6120 wer static. The 1802 still has a following. It's a bizzare part, dumber than an 8048, almost one step down from a PDP8 but none the less useful and people are still using it! Its attractive feature was romless with simple front pannel could be built until I did it with and 8035 and fewer parts. The DMA was nice but hard to use and killed CPU bandwidth. Yet I have three working flavors of it and the first was an ELF built off the PE article when it appeared. Come to think of it in the homebrew computer hobby the Z80, 6502, 1802, and maybe the 6809 are the top players to this day. >Were there any hobbyist systems built around the Fairchild 9440 almost-Nova >chip? Oh, the microFlame. Never saw a hobbiest system of one. I think the only customers that ever saw one were military contractors. Tried to buy one and got blown of by the fairchild rep. I do have a die in lucite paperweight for that effort from one of their promotions. Allison

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[Fwd: Re: Reverse Engineering 15 yr old electronics]

by recycler＠swbell.net

sorry about the off topic regardig the other computers... Patrick

20 years, 9 months

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Collectables?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Collectables? > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 19:18:07 -0800 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >On 11/12/2005 at 9:54 PM Allison wrote: > >>different from the A version in implmentation. The 8800 (and A) FP was >>a nightmare of oneshots and was wired to the backplane with a bundle of >>wires (can you say rinngggg!) plus an wire connection to the CPU card >>as well. > >Miserable white stranded wire. The CPU card connected to the FP as well >through a molex header with the same cheap white wire. I built my 8800 in >a weekend, and the wire from the FP to the MB took the longest. Ah you did the full pluge assembly too. Friday evening to monday morning. I looked horrible going to work. BUT IT RAN! >Anything to save a buck here and there. Lots of corners skipped on the >8800. So much for quality construction of "old stuff'! :) It was poooor. >The Integrand has a power supply that one could arc-weld with. Integrand made one of if not the best crates around for power and cooling. I have the PS from one that was a spare. Good supply. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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FPGA VAX update, now DIY TTL computers

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: FPGA VAX update, now DIY TTL computers > From: Paul Koning <pkoning at equallogic.com> > Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 11:34:10 -0500 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >>>>>> "Allison" == Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> writes: > > Allison> After transistors the second evolution in computers was > Allison> packaging. > >True, at least in high end computers. Cray understood packaging -- as >far back as the CDC 6600 (1964) there is serious magic and serious >engineering in the packaging. > >On the other hand, DEC computers, while nice architecturally, don't >show anything interesting in the way of packaging. > >(A good way to look at it is that you could fit a whole CDC 6000 >series mainframe in a box not much bigger than the PDP-6 general >registers module, which are roughly contemporary.) > > paul Ah and 1964 is nearly 8 years after TX2. True for later generations. However CDC6000 was more specialized packaging where the PDP6 was a whole lot of flipchips and limited specialized packaging. Neither are right or wrong only differing goals and approach. Allison

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FPGA VAX update, now DIY TTL computers

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: FPGA VAX update, now DIY TTL computers > From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> > Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:14:58 -0700 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Chuck Guzis wrote: > >>Consider the very old Packard Bell PB250--22 bit words, fewer than 400 >>transistors and 2500 diodes, 63 instructions. Power consumption about 40 >>watts, exclusive of I/O: >> >>The trick, of course, is to use bit-serial methods. It seems to me that >>one could greatly simplify construction of a homebrew machine that way. >>We're not doing this for speed, right? >> >> >> >Not really that much, it is registers that hog all the logic gates. >I guess you would save only about 1/3 of your logic gates. > >>Cheers, >>Chuck >> >> >I got playing around with 74xx logic and the best I can do for my CPU design >is about 36 chips for a two bit slice. Now who sells 3-input NAND's >and Gated >J/K F/F's cheap like they did in the 70's? And lots and lots of 14 >pin Sockets! > > 74LS10 dip .25 at ea .17 at Q25 |74F10 dip .19 at ea .14 at Q25 |74HCT10 dip .25 at ea .18 at Q25 JDRmicrodevices.com Even at a buck a chip if your only using 36 of them thats not painful. Allison

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Collectables?

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

At 18:07 12/11/2005 -0800, you wrote: >Let me be clear on the IMS backplane--it's not a 12-slot model, but a >4-slot version. It appears to be factory-engineered this way and a glance >at the rails in my Altair 8800 appears to say that this was intended for >incorporation into a MITS box and not the IMS box. Connection is obviously >the MITS wire-by-wire method, not the IMS edge connector. > >I hadn't realized that IMS made add-ons for the MITS boxes, but here you >have one. Ah... I hadn't realized that. I assumed it was a 22-slot backplane from an IMSAI 8080 - I was going to pull apart the IMSAI and check the number... Both of my 8800's have 12 slots installed, so I could still use the board, although chances are I wouldn't actually install it (neither Altair is full, and 16 slots would be pushing it anyway for the 8800's power supply). Let me know what you want for it, and if reasonable, and nobody else has a better use we can talk further. [I suppose with the front-panel, and the right cards (CPU, 64K RAM, disk and serial I/O in three cards) I could build a "very short" IMSAI with it - it would even be kinds cute] Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

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ZX80 for sale

by cclist＠sydex.com

Here are some photos: http://www.sydex.com/zx80.html First USD $75 takes it. Thanks, Chuck

20 years, 9 months

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Collectables?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Collectables? > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 18:46:26 -0800 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >On 11/12/2005 at 9:30 PM Allison wrote: > >>Two different companies. IMS was a bit later time frame and did produce >>upgrades for Altair. In fact just about everyone produced upgrades of >>one form or another. Typically backplanes, power supplies, RAM, CPU and >>of course FDC were often seen. About the only part not commonly upgraded >>in an Altair was the front pannel though that could be done as well. > >....and if memory serves, for a time IMS also offered trade-in deals for >owners of MITS 8800 systems. Having used (but not owned) both, I liked the >IMSAI a lot better as regards quality of construction than the MITS. >Eventually all of my cards wound up in an Integrand Systems no-blinking >lights box with a many-slot actively-terminated motherboard. But I still >have the MITS box. > >Cheers, >Chuck Original topic: I'd like to get that Polymorphic to build a small system. I'm thinking Cpro CPUZ, Cpro Disk1A, Interfacer-II and Ram22. That will build a z80, floppy interfaced, 256k with enough parallel IO to do an IDE. Current topic: Yes, IMSAI did offer a trade in. I'd used both and prefered the IMSAI. IMSAI was better built hands down but hit the scene about 6months after MITS. That and the PE article was visibility that IMSAI didn't initally get. That's why when you an IMSAI it's more likely to be working than an Altair 8800 (plain or A version). The 8800B was much improved but way later. However I was fast on the draw and have a very early Altair which I learned a lot about how to not engineer things. I hate oneshots as a result. Hence the comments on mods. Mine was so power short that with 12k ram parallel IO and a 88ACR casette board the +8volt line was really 7.5...barely. I rewound the transformer so that would run a reasonable complement of cards. Mine has every mod but the FP as a result. The FP would have been next if I didn't GO NS* as the switches from toggling in the boots were getting really tired. That speaks for why after two years and a few months when the North*Star box was available I was right on it. On a related note I've been doing some 1802 coding and that 1977 NS* box is still running Avocets 1802 assembler under cp/m. Still kicking after 27+ years. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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Collectables?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Collectables? > From: Dave Dunfield <dave04a at dunfield.com> > Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 21:40:36 -0500 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >>Ah, IMS and IMSAI are not the same people. I have a number of IMS boards >>and they were also a s100 systems supplier, decent stuff too. >> >>IMS Corp. >>> IMS >>IMS Asoc Inc >>> IMSAI > >Ah (he echos) - I hadn't clued into this either, but yes, there are two >IMSs (confused the heck out of me the first time I ran into IMS (corp.) >boards) - this makes sense (I also had not heard of IMS (IMSAI) making >Altair 4-slot backplane boards). > > >>Two different companies. IMS was a bit later time frame and did produce >>upgrades for Altair. In fact just about everyone produced upgrades of >>one form or another. Typically backplanes, power supplies, RAM, CPU and >>of course FDC were often seen. About the only part not commonly upgraded >>in an Altair was the front pannel though that could be done as well. > >Really? I don't recall ever seeing a third-party front panel on an Altair >(at least not a commercially produced one) - who made one, and are there >any links to photos anywhere? > >Regards, >Dave >-- Godbout had one that was hex keyboard and multi digit numeric led diplays rather than toggle switches. There was also the 8800B FP which was very different from the A version in implmentation. The 8800 (and A) FP was a nightmare of oneshots and was wired to the backplane with a bundle of wires (can you say rinngggg!) plus an wire connection to the CPU card as well. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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Collectables?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Collectables? > From: Scott Stevens <chenmel at earthlink.net> > Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 21:54:08 -0500 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >I'm so glad there are people who think differently than me, so I >can get stuff like that coin for almost nothing. Yep! The history of many of my systems sorta odd. Many of the key ones have been with me for years and some are like new but many are modified, expanded, tweeked and a few I still use on regular basis as they are known systems. If they have vices, I've known the specific details for more years than PCs have existed. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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Collectables?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Collectables? > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 18:07:56 -0800 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >Let me be clear on the IMS backplane--it's not a 12-slot model, but a >4-slot version. It appears to be factory-engineered this way and a glance >at the rails in my Altair 8800 appears to say that this was intended for >incorporation into a MITS box and not the IMS box. Connection is obviously >the MITS wire-by-wire method, not the IMS edge connector. > >I hadn't realized that IMS made add-ons for the MITS boxes, but here you >have one. > >Cheers, >Chuck Ah, IMS and IMSAI are not the same people. I have a number of IMS boards and they were also a s100 systems supplier, decent stuff too. IMS Corp. >>> IMS IMS Asoc Inc >>> IMSAI Two different companies. IMS was a bit later time frame and did produce upgrades for Altair. In fact just about everyone produced upgrades of one form or another. Typically backplanes, power supplies, RAM, CPU and of course FDC were often seen. About the only part not commonly upgraded in an Altair was the front pannel though that could be done as well. Allison

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Collectables?

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

>Ah, IMS and IMSAI are not the same people. I have a number of IMS boards >and they were also a s100 systems supplier, decent stuff too. > >IMS Corp. >>> IMS >IMS Asoc Inc >>> IMSAI Ah (he echos) - I hadn't clued into this either, but yes, there are two IMSs (confused the heck out of me the first time I ran into IMS (corp.) boards) - this makes sense (I also had not heard of IMS (IMSAI) making Altair 4-slot backplane boards). >Two different companies. IMS was a bit later time frame and did produce >upgrades for Altair. In fact just about everyone produced upgrades of >one form or another. Typically backplanes, power supplies, RAM, CPU and >of course FDC were often seen. About the only part not commonly upgraded >in an Altair was the front pannel though that could be done as well. Really? I don't recall ever seeing a third-party front panel on an Altair (at least not a commercially produced one) - who made one, and are there any links to photos anywhere? Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

20 years, 9 months

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Collectables?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Collectables? > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 15:03:55 -0800 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >I just found an unused bare S-100 backplane PCB marked "EXP-4 Rev. 2" and >"(C) 1975, IMS Assoc. Inc.". I'm assuming that it's for the IMSAI 8080, >but am not certain. > >I've also discovered a bare Polymorphic Systems backplane from about the >same time. I'll throw in the 4 edge connectors that were taped to it. It >has pads for rectifiers, caps and what looks like a regulator on it. > >Let me know if you're interested. I'm building a small 4 board s100 system, the usual Z80, Memory, IO and disk. The Polymorphic sounds nice for that project. The IMS is too big if it's their usual more than 12 slot backplane. I'd take both though depending on price. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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Collectables?

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

At 15:03 12/11/2005 -0800, you wrote: >I just found an unused bare S-100 backplane PCB marked "EXP-4 Rev. 2" and >"(C) 1975, IMS Assoc. Inc.". I'm assuming that it's for the IMSAI 8080, >but am not certain. > >I've also discovered a bare Polymorphic Systems backplane from about the >same time. I'll throw in the 4 edge connectors that were taped to it. It >has pads for rectifiers, caps and what looks like a regulator on it. > >Let me know if you're interested. Hi Chuck, I have interest in the IMS backplane - I have an IMSAI 8080 front panel, which I plan to build into a functional machine, and I'd like to use as many IMS parts as I can find. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

20 years, 9 months

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IBM 5315 on Ebay

by aw288＠osfn.org

ITS THE MEAT GRINDER! How many poor CEs got their tie stuck in this? Ebay number 7561176298. One of these days I need to get me one of these. Tasty! William Donzelli aw288 at osfn.org

20 years, 9 months

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More stuff for the collectors

by cclist＠sydex.com

I found an old Quadram quadboard in my junk collection. This is a 256K (41256 DRAM) add in board for the 5150. Also includes a serial port (8250), a parallel port (8255) and a clock (some small 19-pin OKI chip). The board bears a copyright of 1982 and the chips have date codes in early 1983, so this is a very early critter. To my recollection, this was usable only on the 4.77MHz motherboards, but I could be mistaken. The original "wide" PC mounting bracket has been replaced with a conventional narrow one, so this board has probably seen duty in a clone. I can populate the board with DRAMs if necessary. I think I may even have a software diskette and manual for it, but I'm not completely certain. Let me know if you're interested. Cheers, Chuck

20 years, 9 months

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Power connectors?

by Useddec＠aol.com

Hi, I might have a few, but what exactly are you trying to connect? Are they the white ones with only the outer two pins used, or the brown ones with the locking tabs? Thanks, Paul

20 years, 9 months

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FPGA VAX update, now DIY TTL computers

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: FPGA VAX update, now DIY TTL computers > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 21:33:43 +0000 (GMT) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >> >> On 11/11/2005 at 11:12 PM woodelf wrote: >> >> >PS. As for getting 7400 off scrap boards, if I had the scrap boards I >> >would most likely try to get the scrap item working again. :D > >Me too. I've got piles of obscure boards that I'd like to get going again >sometime. Most have no real practical function, but are part of the >history of computing/electronics. > >About the only thing I'll raid for parts are no-name clone PC >motherboards and cards.. And those are not a good source of standard TTL, >alas. > >> >> There are plenty of junk boards that have no particular useful function. >> I've got a bunch of ISA cards that I salvaged. All were old models of a >> gizmo that appeared to a PC as a monochrome adapter, but which translated >> the CPU writes to video memory to serial codes to a VT-220 type terminal. > >Now that sounds unusual enough to be very interesting. Put it this way, >if I had something like that I'd be trying to track down a dump of that >missing ROM. I would not be raiding it for parts. > >-tony There are tons of mostly unidentifyable boards with usable parts or we know what they are and maybe they even work but heck there's a stack of 100 in the corner with good parts for salvage. Examples of salvage to me XT clones that were never rare, 386 and 486 boards with salvageable parts. A sharp TV with a dead red drive from a doitall chip is junk for stripping. Non-salvage items, things I keep and fix like my uVAX ADVICE as it's an in circuit emulator for the uVAX chip so it both maybe the last in existance and unusual. There is junk and not. The junk is there to make the not junk work. One can have too much junk, rarely! Allison

20 years, 9 months

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Smithsonian gets it wrong

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: RE: Smithsonian gets it wrong > From: "Vassilis Prevelakis" <vp at cs.drexel.edu> > Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 18:54:52 -0500 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >"a.carlini at ntlworld.com" <arcarlini at iee.org> wrote: >> > Vassilis Prevelakis wrote: >> > Hello?? The label says its a *MICRO*VAX, and if its a uVAX, then >> > its not a mini. Also, calling the baby-sized uVAX a mini gives >> > visitors who may have never seen a mini-computer the wrong idea as to >> > what a mini-computer looks like. Sure I'll accept that its *compatible* > >> I'd not call the MicroVAX a mini, but it *is* a VAX. > >Actually I agree, I got carried away in my original posting. > >My main objection is the mini designation. The uVAX is not a mini. > >In the early 80s IBM produced a set of ISA cards for their original >PC. These cards implemented a large subset of the IBM 370 architecture >and the PC could boot some 370-compatible OS (I do not recall which >one). The called it the IBM PC/370. It was a 370 but I wouldn't >call it a mainframe, nor would I place a card next to it saying >IBM 370 MAINFRAME [...], and this is the model PC/370 >produced in (say) 1984. > >**vp Your still skating on thin ice. The whole concept of a mini was that a mini was not a maxi. there was never a clear delineation and those that got the term like the PDP-8 were minis because they were distinctly smaller that most peoples perception of computer at that time (multiple 6ft high racks.). By 1985 that idea meant a MicroVAX was a mini and the VAX was the big fella. But by then we called the little ones micros and the big guys something else other than minicomputers. Sorta like for the last 15 or so years PC universally applies to personal computer and it's implied that it is wintel. But from about 1970ish to around 1981 PC meant Personally owned Computer and it could be anything! For example I was offered a Cincinatti Millichron CM2000 in 1973 for $2000 (price of a new truck) and if I'd done that it would have been my first PC even though the box was 19Wx11Hx28D and it weighed at least 80 pounds without the ASR33. So terms like mainframe, mini are sometimes hard to pin down.During the '70s the mid 60's idea of mini became smaller and machines like the VAX and Eclipse were called superminis. But that left the desktop Novas and PDP-8/e/f/m to be called what? Micro was easier as it really had to contain the core processor on one or very few chips that were LSI or VLSI. So without wrapping the timeframe context around the words there is considerable drift in what the images it conveys. For context when minicomputer was first coined and applied a womans skirt was calf length and a miniskirt was, well, too short safely to bend over without risk. But even that industry had the micromini. ;) Allison

20 years, 9 months

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FPGA VAX update, now DIY TTL computers

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: FPGA VAX update, now DIY TTL computers > From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> > Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 10:49:26 -0700 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Allison wrote: > >>Must only be using 7400 and 7404s doing it the hard way. As far back >>as '68 ALU blocks were availble, sure they cost $4 each then but the >>chip savings was there. >> >> >I was thinking 7401's ( 2 input OC Nands) and 7414's ( hex schmitt >trigger). > >>Likely you'll never build it. >> >True, but the chalenge is there. PS if I add as many displays as you say >I need this >will at least look impresive. > >> Moving up just one step integreation wise >>is the 7483 (it equivilent is PDP8 era) full adder. That alone will cut >>the ALU chip count. >> >> >> >This is 18 bits ... 2 or 3 or 6 or 9 is needed here, not 2 or 4 or 8 >or blah! 16 :) So throw away the excess bits. It's still cheaper. Also there is a Single full adder TTL part the 7480. >>My fun was not replicating the archetecture in an acient way but using the >>most MSI TTL parts I could get to replicate it in a moden way. IE: can I >>build a TTL PDP-8 with 1kx4 MOS ram in minimum TTL count for everything >>else. One can simplify that to working replica rather than exact replica. >> >> >> >The 8 reduces well for modern chips but the lack of a TTY or a high >speed punch/reader and a >dumb terminal is what is preventing me from build a 8 in 3 CPLD's. Well the punch is ahrd but a HS reader is trivial to build AS it's been done many times. as to putting it CPLD or FPGA, yes you could but I'm saying/staying in TTL with available SSI and MSI functions it's possible to be chip count reasonable. >>The difference is 2 'ls273 for a 16 bit register or 8 LS74s. But it goes >>further with fewer sockets, pins and wires, power and debug time. That >>also relects reliability once working as used parts are going to be >>a bit shakey untill (re)infant mortaility is again worked out from >>removal stresses. That may be minor but with a 200-400 peice TTL system >>you would be surprized unpleasently with how bad bring up can be if there >>is any uncertanty in the parts used. >> >> >> >I plan to get new parts, but this TTL design will be slower version the >CPLD cpu I am building, >I am going backwards here since other the IDE drive and moden ( 90's ) >memory don't want >to have rely on M$ if I want to make a hardware change. ( Ok not quite >true as I'll be using >windows for PCB and CAD work ). I have nearly 30 IDE drives all under 500mb I can build around. Its easy to make them look like a RK05 or whatever to a PDP-8 databreak interface. What MS does next year or even lsat years does not impact me at all. >>When I did the 200 peice TTL system it was 1972 into 73 and we were using >>the then common silicone plastic TTL aka the gray plastic and those were >>not reliable. That system took over a month to debug between wiring >>errors, timing errors (races and spikes) and new but partially dead chips. >>and after it was working for about three months after it was cranky when >>hot till we weeded out a few more bad actors. >> >> >> >This is making me think twice to goto LS. Now what I need help is with >the J/K flip flops (TTL). 7473 -- "Do not change J/K while the clock is high." But I want to >STOBE J/K when the clock is high for a D F/F. Will this work in practice? The clock change for 7474 is postive side and 7473 is negative going side. That only a start, their logically differnt animals. Also some types of D ff can have a metastable state (both outputs high or low) under some cases! >>One thing I'd suggest for those building something greater 50 TTL is lots >>of LEDs to indicate the state or status of a block of logic plus the ability >>to slow the clock if possible to near DC so you can watch it do stuff >>without a fast logic analyser. It's a great fault finding tool. >> > >PS. I got a $5 brick for this years project. :) > >>Theses days free PC power supplies (usually free scrap AT form factor) >>and cheap brick form factor switchers make 20A at 5 volts a trivial deal. >> >> >No wait the brick err door stop is the old PC. Ah foo. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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Smithsonian gets it wrong

by vp＠cs.drexel.edu

"a.carlini at ntlworld.com" <arcarlini at iee.org> wrote: > > Vassilis Prevelakis wrote: > > Hello?? The label says its a *MICRO*VAX, and if its a uVAX, then > > its not a mini. Also, calling the baby-sized uVAX a mini gives > > visitors who may have never seen a mini-computer the wrong idea as to > > what a mini-computer looks like. Sure I'll accept that its *compatible* > I'd not call the MicroVAX a mini, but it *is* a VAX. Actually I agree, I got carried away in my original posting. My main objection is the mini designation. The uVAX is not a mini. In the early 80s IBM produced a set of ISA cards for their original PC. These cards implemented a large subset of the IBM 370 architecture and the PC could boot some 370-compatible OS (I do not recall which one). The called it the IBM PC/370. It was a 370 but I wouldn't call it a mainframe, nor would I place a card next to it saying IBM 370 MAINFRAME [...], and this is the model PC/370 produced in (say) 1984. **vp

20 years, 9 months

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Sorry to post this to the list (5155 PSU diagrams)

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

Sorry to bother the whole list with this... Can the chap who wants the schematics for the IBM 5155 PSU (Portable PC) please contact me (or Dave Colver directly (secretary at hpcc.org)). He tells me they're scanned (and about 1.7Meg). -tony

20 years, 9 months

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INCAA - PIT

by jlewczyk＠his.com

>Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:23:17 +0100 >From: Thomas Seidel <thomas.seidel at gmail.com> >Subject: INCAA - PIT >To: cctech at classiccmp.org >Hi, > >a colleague just picked up the board of an "INCAA PIT" and handed it over to >me. Looks like a programmable interface converter, it has two DB25 >connectors and a 6800 CPU. The two ROMs are labelled "PIT 1985" and there is >a bit of RAM (SRM2064 & TMM2016) . What is the box doing? Are there any >manuals available? It's possible to program the CPU via the DB25 connector? >Any hints? > >TIA, >--Thomas I googled "INCAA PIT" and found this link which is a list of documents avaible which includes "INCAA, PIT Users Manual, 1984, KP10" http://web.ukonline.co.uk/apricale/nonfic.html

20 years, 9 months

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Collectables?

by cclist＠sydex.com

I just found an unused bare S-100 backplane PCB marked "EXP-4 Rev. 2" and "(C) 1975, IMS Assoc. Inc.". I'm assuming that it's for the IMSAI 8080, but am not certain. I've also discovered a bare Polymorphic Systems backplane from about the same time. I'll throw in the 4 edge connectors that were taped to it. It has pads for rectifiers, caps and what looks like a regulator on it. Let me know if you're interested. Cheers, Chuck

20 years, 9 months

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More on my HP7245A problem

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

I've been doing some more fiddling with that HP7245A printer/plotter. On the ROM/RAM board there are 8 9216s, arranged to give an 8K*16 program storage space. And also 4 off 82S123 PROMs arranged to give 64words*16, probably for some kind of parameter storage. Those last 4 chips are socketed. Test 02 does appear to be the ROM test (as on the -B model). On my machine it seems to access all the program ROMs and the first pair of 82S123s. It then gives up with error 54(8). I have rpelaced the sockets (with nice turned-piu ones), no change. By swapping the ROMs around, I think I've discovered that the test is a simple cheacksum, independant of the address.In particular, if I swap round the 2 sets of PROMs (in the test mode), it fails with error 56(8). And if I put them back in the right sockets, and then swap round the 2 ROMs in the low bank, it fails with code 53(8) This leads me to guess that the error codes (in octal) are : 53 : U15 (PROM A MSB) 54 : U10 (PROM A LSB) 55 : U16 (PROM B MSB) 56 : U11 (PROM B LSB). And that U10 is genuinely the problem in my machine (i.e. not the socket, PCB traces, or address decoder, all of which I have checked anyway). Curiously, all 4 PROMs have the same HP part number, but I suspect that's the code for a blank chip, and that the contents of each chip is different. OK, it's a long shot, but does anyone have a dead 7245A that they can pull these ROMs from? Or any idea as to what the contents should be? -tony

20 years, 9 months

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Variable Word length CPU

by stevew＠ka6s.com

"Dwight K. Elvey" <dwight at ca2h0430.amd.com> Wrote: >Hi >My thought is to make a variable word length processor using >a single bit ALU. Of course, I've been thinking in terms of a relay >based machine. >Dwight Hi Dwight, Having helped design a variable word length computer (B1000 series machines (B1955, B1965), I'm of the opinion that it isn't a useful construct. Burroughs justified the idea by saying they ran "microcode" on the hardware. It was really a basic machine language just like any other computer. The only real difference was that all the compilers compiled down to intermediate languages which were run on interpreters. It didn't yield very good performance even though the hardware wasn't that slow for it's era. There are a couple of interesting side effects of the choices they made. They needed to have a variable word length rotate capability, and also chose to address memory on bit boundaries. If you had a 13 bit word length, then memory delivered 13 bit elements to you (wasting alot of bandwidth in the process since it was organized by 32...) You also need the ability to pull off the carry bit from any particular point in the ALU. If I were the Burroughs architect, I wouldn't have gone to those extremes knowing what I know now. Steve Wilson

20 years, 9 months

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Visual Technology - off brand

by beclassic＠att.net

This Company's products are also scarce on the web - maybe they were just "another clone" (although luggable). A year or so ago I located a prior employee who gave some background, including that he might still have the schematics. They were made 1984-86. I've had no interest in the Visual 1083 I want to place, but I'm hoping a touch of off-brand discussion might change that. -------------------- my earlier post: I want to find a home for my 5150 and a few other items. Prefer a collector rather than ebay, but I would still hope to get a nominal consideration in return. I'm in South Carolina. [] IBM PC (5150) set up as a clone XT. It has a 10mb hard drive and dual half-height floppies. Three original manuals with disks: DOS (3.00 or 3.30?), Guide to Operations (2.05) and Basic. Keyboard is original. Not sure what kind of video interface, but the CGA monitor works fine on it. [] IBM CGA monitor (5153). [] Visual 1083 - Commuter. This description mentions an LCD display, but that is not a part of mine. No disks, but it boots with the DOS from the IBM. http://www.thepcmuseum.net/details.php?RECORD_KEY%28museum%29=id&id(museum)… [] nice AT-style desktop box and 15" SVGA monitor (will either be Sony or Mag). I raided the box for the QDI motherboard, but I have another (name?) and a Pentium 200 that previously worked in this box. Not sure whether I'll keep the 6 meg hard drive. Couple of keyboards. [] box of miscellaneous I/O boards + modem . . . mostly from Boca for 16-bit ISA. [] maybe some software for PC - Clipper, Wordperfect?? - I'll be checking. I can take pics and send emails if needed and will try to firm up answers to some questions I raised for myself. I can answer on this board if someone wants an answer that way. bill

20 years, 9 months

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Smithsonian gets it wrong

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Smithsonian gets it wrong > From: "Vassilis Prevelakis" <vp at cs.drexel.edu> > Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 13:29:42 -0500 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > > >Pictures from the Smithsonian > http://users.starpower.net/dj.taylor/Vax1.JPG > > VAX MINICOMPUTER > > Digital Equipment Corporation's VAX minicomputer, first introduced > in 1976, provided enough processing power for complex design problems, > but at a much lower cost than had previously been available. This > meant that individuals engineers could have the fill use of a > computer without having to share it with their colleagues. The VAX > became the workhorse or aerospace engineering. The model displayed > here, a MicroVAX II was introduced in 1985. > > >Museum people! Oh well! They can obviously read, but cannot understand. >Hello?? The label says its a *MICRO*VAX, and if its a uVAX, then >its not a mini. Also, calling the baby-sized uVAX a mini gives >visitors who may have never seen a mini-computer the wrong idea as to >what a mini-computer looks like. Sure I'll accept that its *compatible* >with a VAX (I'll even ignore the minor business of emulating a small >part of the instruction set :-), but is not a VAX. Get over it. Like Antonio said, its a VAX, one archetecture multiple implmentations that act the same. The fact that the VAX ranged from the .5 cu/Ft MicroVAX2000 to the 9000 false floor heavyweight is relevent. If the mini thing were real it's actually a "superminicomputer". But if size is a factor then the VAX 9000 was anything but mini. We didn't call the 9000 a mainframe but it was huge for it's time. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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how sloppy are speed tolerences in QIC drives

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: how sloppy are speed tolerences in QIC drives > From: compoobah at valleyimplants.com > Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 13:36:17 -0600 > To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >I'm trying the vinyl tubing approach in replacing the drive roller, since it sounds like it would be difficult to slide in a different QIC drive when I need to use tape (no one suggested tips on that). How "sloppy" can the drive roller dimensions be? is there a feedback loop for speed regulation that interfaces directly to the tape, or does it rely soley on the stepper motor and parts dimensions? I think I'm about 1/32" too large, but it could be bigger, since it's hard to measure goo, not more than 1/8th, though.=0D=0A=0D=0A Well, the TU58 servos off the motor and I found it tolerent of at least 1/16" variation. If the drive servos of the data then tolerences are far greater. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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Reverse Engineering 15 yr old electronics

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

>One thing I forgot to mention in my last message. Get a good continuity >tester. 'Good' means one that is not fooled by diode junctions (and >preferably not by low-ish resistors), one that doesn't supply enough >voltage or current to damage anyting, one that beeps, and one that beeps >quickly (you want to be able to 'stroke' a probe along a line of pins to >see if a given connection goes to any of them). A useful trick I sometimes use when I have trouble following a connection (especially those which "disappear" into a multi-layer board). If you just can't figure out where a signal goes - cut squares of tinfoil, and press them against sections of the board with a firm sponge (something with enough give to let the foil seat against all the pins). Then using a good continuity tester such as Tony describes, you can quickly cover large areas to quickly narrow down where exactly a signal is located. (use foil squares sized as needed). Obviosuly you do not want the board powered at all - insure that caps are discharged, batteries removed etc. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

20 years, 9 months

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Orphaned OS thoughts

by James＠jdfogg.com

While reading an old resume, I came across something I forgot about. I used to admin some 3Com 3+ and 3+/Open systems. 3Com made the hardware (beefed up PC stuff) and wrote or owned the OS. Anybody know what became of 3+/Open? -James James Fogg JD Fogg Technology Consulting 18 Watershed Lane Wilmot, NH 03287 (603) 724-2243 www.jdfogg.com

20 years, 9 months

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Power connectors?

by fireflyst＠earthlink.net

Hey does anyone know where I can buy 3 prong Molex connectors, particularly those used to connect a QBUS box to a DEC power bus, and the one that goes >from a cable to the power bus connector? I can't find them anywhere on Molex or AMP's web site.

20 years, 9 months

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R-E 68000 PC articles that were mentioned

by aek＠bitsavers.org

>I have a book called "Build your own Z-80 computer" by Steve Ciarcia. >Is this the sort of thing that would have some interest in an e-version? I'm sure Mr Ciarcia would be interested if this were put on line, but not in a good way. >Is there a fast way to scan bound materials without butchering them? It is MUCH less expensive to find a second sacrificial copy of the types of bound documents that classiccmp-ers would be interested in than the cost of something like a Kurzweil book scanner. The Mustek Opticbook USB scanner is OK for book scanning, but is isn't particularly fast.

20 years, 9 months

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=== IBM 5110 / 5120 terminator ===

by f5inl＠wanadoo.fr

Hi ! Could anyone give me the REAL pin assignment of the terminator used on the IBM 5110 / 5120 systems ? Has anyone build such a terminator ? I tried to build one and I'm fed up with getting always the same error : I can obtain the file list (using basic command UTIL DIR,D80 or UTIL DIR,D40) but 5 seconds after giving me the file list, the systems blocks, the promt disappeared and I must restard all... No led is lightning on the pannel...Sometimes I get the 24 or 26 error code (''diskette error...''is only said in my reference manual : what a help !). Very strange diagnostic... Thanks for your help ;-) Fred.

20 years, 9 months

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how sloppy are speed tolerences in QIC drives

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

I'm trying the vinyl tubing approach in replacing the drive roller, since it sounds like it would be difficult to slide in a different QIC drive when I need to use tape (no one suggested tips on that). How "sloppy" can the drive roller dimensions be? is there a feedback loop for speed regulation that interfaces directly to the tape, or does it rely soley on the stepper motor and parts dimensions? I think I'm about 1/32" too large, but it could be bigger, since it's hard to measure goo, not more than 1/8th, though.

20 years, 9 months

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continuation of R-E 68000 pc post

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

The Rest of the Story: inexpensively- does Al have that capability or does he only do ring-bound stuff that you can take apart?

20 years, 9 months

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removing parts from PCBs

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

Two-leaded passives are easy to get with a soldering iron and a pair of curved-nose hemostats (check with friends in the medical profession- those and dental tools (picks, explorers) are really convienient to have- if you're extremely lucky you'll find someone who's getting rid of a unit- they have air/water syringes (great for blowing out small stuff) and high-speed air turbine "dremel" type things- tres useful). Just clamp the hemostat to one lead, touch a small soldering iron to the back, pull, same with other lead. They're cheap new, but sometimes I don't want to go out to get them. SMTs are a bit harder, but I've done them, too.

20 years, 9 months

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LA210 Schematics

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> Are the LA210 printer schematics/tech info available anywhere? http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/terminal/MP02007-01A1_LA210.pdf

20 years, 9 months

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FPGA VAX update, now DIY TTL computers

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: FPGA VAX update, now DIY TTL computers > From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> > Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 23:12:46 -0700 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >The quick logic alu design is about 20 TTL per bit and Must only be using 7400 and 7404s doing it the hard way. As far back as '68 ALU blocks were availble, sure they cost $4 each then but the chip savings was there. >I am planning 18 bits wide... say 50 ents each for a 74XX gate that >is $10 per bit. >Rounding that to 20 bits that is $200 for the logic. Good sockets are >$.50 so >about $200. Not knowing PCB layout say a square inch per chip ... 20 >sq inches >@ 75 cents a inch ... $300 for the PCB's ... That is where my money >is going. >OH well I have all next year for that project, but I have two goals >for the ALU >and Control so I can have feel for what the 60's Computers were like >size wise. >1) 14 pin DIPS. 2) 7400 logic. Likely you'll never build it. Moving up just one step integreation wise is the 7483 (it equivilent is PDP8 era) full adder. That alone will cut the ALU chip count. My fun was not replicating the archetecture in an acient way but using the most MSI TTL parts I could get to replicate it in a moden way. IE: can I build a TTL PDP-8 with 1kx4 MOS ram in minimum TTL count for everything else. One can simplify that to working replica rather than exact replica. The difference is 2 'ls273 for a 16 bit register or 8 LS74s. But it goes further with fewer sockets, pins and wires, power and debug time. That also relects reliability once working as used parts are going to be a bit shakey untill (re)infant mortaility is again worked out from removal stresses. That may be minor but with a 200-400 peice TTL system you would be surprized unpleasently with how bad bring up can be if there is any uncertanty in the parts used. When I did the 200 peice TTL system it was 1972 into 73 and we were using the then common silicone plastic TTL aka the gray plastic and those were not reliable. That system took over a month to debug between wiring errors, timing errors (races and spikes) and new but partially dead chips. and after it was working for about three months after it was cranky when hot till we weeded out a few more bad actors. One thing I'd suggest for those building something greater 50 TTL is lots of LEDs to indicate the state or status of a block of logic plus the ability to slow the clock if possible to near DC so you can watch it do stuff without a fast logic analyser. It's a great fault finding tool. >I can get a 200 watt PC power supply ... 5 volts @ 20 amps that I >hope is ample PS. As for getting 7400 off scrap boards, if I had >the scrap boards I would most likely try to get the scrap item working >again. :D Theses days free PC power supplies (usually free scrap AT form factor) and cheap brick form factor switchers make 20A at 5 volts a trivial deal. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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INCAA - PIT

by thomas.seidel＠gmail.com

Hi, a colleague just picked up the board of an "INCAA PIT" and handed it over to me. Looks like a programmable interface converter, it has two DB25 connectors and a 6800 CPU. The two ROMs are labelled "PIT 1985" and there is a bit of RAM (SRM2064 & TMM2016) . What is the box doing? Are there any manuals available? It's possible to program the CPU via the DB25 connector? Any hints? TIA, --Thomas

20 years, 9 months

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That darn Intel jingle...

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

OK, so there goes that irritating Intel jingle on yet another commercial for a product featuring one of their chips - thus ensuring that I'll make darn sure I shop around for alternatives before ever considering one of their chips. It did make me think though; has computing history been littered with ads containing trademark features which are so annoying (in an audio or visual sense), or is this a recent thing? (For some reason the 'Playstation noise' isn't nearly as grating...) cheers Jules

20 years, 9 months

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LA210 Schematics

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: LA210 Schematics > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 01:54:04 +0000 (GMT) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >> >Easiest starting point is to check operating voltages. If during >> >printing they drop or go flakey it's the PS. The fact that it >> >prints at all says most of the logic is solid and working. >> > >> >Allison >> > >> > >> > >> > >> One of the reasons I want some kind of schematic. >> >> So I can know what voltage levels should be where, and if I find > >There pretty much has to be a +5V line for the TTL, microprocessor, etc. >You can find that from data sheets on some of the ICs. I'd start by >checking the voltage between that and logic ground (found on the gnd pin >of similar ICs). > >-tony Easier than that Tony. Pick a voltage on any line and when it start printing see if it changes when the printer fails. No need to know what the correct voltage is when it prints because it is likely correct at that time. However if the printing stops and the voltage does too then there is a clue. FYI: LA210 has a main logic with everything and a power supply unit of the switching variety. I do believe there is a power Ok signal >from that supply. I believe it's derived on the logic board. How if I knew which DEC prints box of the four it's in I could go further. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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Help identifying a Motorola transistor (in HP 7908 PSU)

by david_comley＠yahoo.com

I have been trying on and off for a while to map out the schematic for the PSU of an HP7908 disc/tape unit. There's a transistor I can't identify on the board and I am wondering whether anyone can ID this thing for me. The markings show "239" and then the batwings, and then below that it says "4-456". Same problem for a number of the diodes that are labeled "GE010673". Thanks - Dave __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com

20 years, 9 months

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HP7245A ROM problems?

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

I am working on an HP7245A thermal printer/plotter. I have a home-made schematic of this unit, and have read the service manual for the -B version on hpmusuem.net OK, a bit of history. It was given to me because the previous owner couldn't get it to work and suspected a PSU problem. In fact I don't think there's much wrong with the PSU (off-load, all outputs are correct), I think the logic side was trying to drive one of the motor windings hard on, and that was tripping the PSU. Currently, I've got it in bits. I've removed all the mechanical side. I have the backplane, 4 internal logic boards, HPIB interface and PSU plugged together. I've also got the the ribbon cable plugged into the I/O PCB and to the front control panels. I am trying the self-tests. I am assuming they are similar to the ones in the -B model, and that all test LEDs on (77(8)) is a pass, for example. And that the tests are in the same order and do the same things. Test 1 (processor board buffers) seems to pass Test 2 (ROM) doesn't, see below Test 4 (RAM) passes, even though the darn thing uses 2114s Tests 5,6,7, (interrupts) seem to pass too Test 10 (HPIB) passes. And I see little flashes from the 'addressed' LEDs on the back, so I think it is doing something to the HPIB card. OK, back to test 2. This would seem to be a ROM checksum test. It fails with error 54(8). It's certainly looking at the ROMs on the ROM/RAM (memory) PCB), if I pull that board it fails with a different code (which, if the codes are the same as the -B version would indicate that the lowest ROM on the ROM/RAM board had failed, which makes sense as it's not there when I pull the board). Now for the problem. if the the codes are the same, then 54(8) is 'ROM 60 LSB failed). ROM 60 (assuming that's the high digits of the octal address, which makes a lot of sense) is a ROM that's not present in the -A model (the -B has more ROM, since it can do raster dumps). The ROMs are AM9216s. These seem to 2K*8 devices, with 2 chip select lines (at least one of which has mask-programmable polarity) and need a +12V supply (although not a -ve supply as well). Does anyone have a service manual for the -A model and can look up this error code for me. And assumign it is a ROM failure, does anyone have a ROM dump, or a dead machine I can get a chip (or board) from? -tony

20 years, 9 months

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LA210 Schematics

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: LA210 Schematics > From: Kevin Handy <kth at srv.net> > Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 13:29:25 -0700 > To: "'General Discussion": "On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Are the LA210 printer schematics/tech info available anywhere? I have hardcopy buried somewhere I think. No B size scanner though. >I have one that will print a few lines, then go through some kind >of reset (printing, lights go off, come back on, loss of text, repeat) > >Self-test print fails after a few lines in like manner. Prints a few >lines, resets, and stops printing. You likely have a bad PS. Especially if it does it during self test. Easiest starting point is to check operating voltages. If during printing they drop or go flakey it's the PS. The fact that it prints at all says most of the logic is solid and working. Allison

20 years, 9 months

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LA210 Schematics

by kth＠srv.net

Are the LA210 printer schematics/tech info available anywhere? I have one that will print a few lines, then go through some kind of reset (printing, lights go off, come back on, loss of text, repeat) Self-test print fails after a few lines in like manner. Prints a few lines, resets, and stops printing.

20 years, 9 months

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MSV11-LK (M8059-KF)

by dbetz＠xlisper.mv.com

Does anyone have documentation on the jumper settings for an MSV11-LK memory module? I have two and want to make sure they are configured correctly. Thanks, David

20 years, 9 months

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MSV11-LK (M8059-KF)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: MSV11-LK (M8059-KF) > From: "bill bailey" <beclassic at att.net> > Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 17:22:27 -0500 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >David - Maybe Ashley Carder can locate the copy he got from me with the >11/23. > >bill bailey > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "David Betz" <dbetz at xlisper.mv.com> >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" ><cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 4:31 PM >Subject: MSV11-LK (M8059-KF) > > >> Does anyone have documentation on the jumper settings for an MSV11-LK >> memory module? I have two and want to make sure they are configured >> correctly. >> >> Thanks, >> David If you can find a copy of the 1982 DIGITAL Microcomputers and Memories handbook page 506. You should really have a copy of than and any of the other pulp handbooks DEC did. FYI: the module is M8059 as some may reference from that rather than MSV11-LK. The trailing suffix covers parity vs nonparity and 128k VS 256K (jumper info applies to all MSV11-xx). Allison

20 years, 9 months

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VT100 video board repair.

by dwight＠ca2h0430.amd.com

>From: "Bill Pechter" <pechter at gmail.com> > >I believe that you can get by with a fairly wide range of diodes and >caps if you just readjust the video after throwing the cap and diode in. > >If I remember correctly the diode was 50v -- and should be at least 100 >as you say. > ---snip--- Hi Just as a rule of thumb, the diode needs to be rated at least 2 times the output voltage for an AC input. This is not overrating! It actually needs to stand off that much reverse voltage. Some pulsed AC supplies, such as switchers may not need that high of a voltage because the voltage is not symmetric, on both polarity swings. If you want to overrate the diode, go to 3 to 4 times the voltage out. 2 times is not overrating, that is the normal operation level. Dwight

20 years, 9 months

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test-drb