16 Jul
2005
16 Jul
'05
4:46 a.m.
I saw this in today's copy of my local newspaper
on-line. The location of the building is in New
Windsor, NY. Stewart International Airport -as
some of you know- sits on the border of the Town
of Newburgh and New Windsor. It used to be and
still is to a degree, a major Marine, Army and
Air Force base. More currently, it is a
commercial international airport and a base for
the Air Force, local Army and Air Force Reserves
and touts a pair of the biggest runways in the
USA. It is the 3rd location on the list for
emergency landings for the Space Shuttles if
something should go wrong. Unfortunately, as this
piece suggests, the military has already removed
the actual SAGE equipment from the building. I
used to go on walks past this building as a kid
as there is a path near it that my family would
take through a wooded area (scenic stuff) and up
until recently, was open to the public, sort of
like a park. I figured I'd send this to cctech
because it has a lot of historical relevance.
-John Boffemmyer IV
STORY AS FOLLOWS:
July 16, 2005
Cold War building faces colder reality
By Jeremiah Horrigan
Times Herald-Record
jhorrigan at th-record.com
New Windsor ? You'll find it on the edge of
Stewart International Airport, a windowless,
four-story concrete cube that looks like it could withstand a nuclear blast.
And that's exactly what it was built to do.
If things had gone as many Americans feared
during the Cold War, if the Russian bombers had
finally come over the horizon, the Semi-Automatic
Ground Environment building was the key to the
country's military defense system.
The building that once thrummed with the
tensions of a time when nuclear Armageddon was a
constant threat was abandonned by the military
decades ago. The unnerving skeleton of its legacy
remain, including the war room, where
etched-glass maps of the Eastern U.S. display
likely Russian targets. Above the maps looms a
doomsday tote board, meant to track the "progress" of World War III.
Even before the '50s faded and ICBMs became
the weapon of choice among the world's
super-powers, the SAGE building had become as
antiquated as an Edsel. It's now slated for the
wrecking ball under the airport's new 20-year master plan for development.
And that plan is under siege by a group of
people who for years have been laboring to
transform the SAGE building into what they call a Cold War Peace Museum.
Ulster County Legislator Susan Zimet has
spearheaded the effort, lobbying, fundraising and
proselytizing on the building's behalf for the past five years.
To her, the building isn't a dead relic but a
living reminder of an era she believes we forget at our peril.
"All the stuff we deal with daily ?
terrorism, the possibility of nuclear terror or
the situation in Korea ? it all began with the Cold War."
Zimet's not much of a history buff herself,
and, after years of exploring possibilities,
she's doubtful the building is suitable for becoming a first-class museum.
But that, she argues, doesn't mean the
building should be demolished. Taking it down (at
an estimated cost of nearly a million dollars)
would be no different than destroying
Washington's headquarters in Newburgh, she says.
Tanya Vanasse toured the building's interior
recently. She wasn't impressed. Vanasse is the
airport's director of marketing. She sees no
reason to keep the building around.
The airport's master plan calls for the
building to come down sometime between 2008 and
2012, to make way for a rail yard that would be
part of a new train station, according to Zimet.
"I can see no viability of making this into a
public space. It's far too dangerous, it's got
far too many accessibility problems," she said
last week. "I could see removing the (etched
glass) pieces and building a display around them."
Vanasse said the plan is open ended, that no
hard-and-fast timetable exists. Nevertheless,
Zimet's group is urging people to sign petitions
that would preserve the building.
In the meantime, the SAGE building, silent
and foreboding as a tomb, continues to do what it has always done: It waits.
Anti-blast from the past was built to last
If it goes, the Semi-Automatic Ground
Environment building won't go easily. Its thick,
lead-reinforced concrete walls were intended to
withstand the ravages of a nuclear holocaust.
Only a direct hit could have taken it out.
The building was designed in the mid-1950s as
part of a network of identical
information-gathering centers built throughout
the country that was supposed to protect the
country's nuclear bomber fleet. Its designers
intentionally made it so nondescript that only a
handful of military personnel even knew of its existence or purpose.
Its computer system was beyond compare,
requiring thousands of square feet and at least
as many delicate transistors to track potential
intruders. Watching the skies at a SAGE building
console, said one retired Air Force veteran, was
like something out of "Buck Rogers."
But, like so many other state-of-the-art
defense systems, this one was obsolete almost
before it became operational. It was designed to
combat nuclear bombers. By the end of the decade,
intercontinental ballistic missiles had become
the bomb delivery system of choice.
The structure was officially decommissioned
in 1969. Since then, it has served as a
free-trade zone. Its ground floor is now occupied
by a chocolate- packaging factory.
Jeremiah Horrigan
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19 Jul
19 Jul
9:54 a.m.
On Sat, 16 Jul 2005, John Boffemmyer IV wrote:
STORY AS FOLLOWS:
...
Its computer system was beyond compare, requiring thousands of square feet
and at least as many delicate transistors to track potential intruders.
Transistors? Thousands of them?? Do some research, please. Not you,
John. :-)
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
10:51 a.m.
Before we say the reporter was wrong, consider this: of course the main SAGE
computers in the 1950s used vacuum tubes, but isn't it likely that the
later, remote facilities (like the one in this story) used transistors?
>>> Transistors? Thousands of them?? Do some
research, please. Not you,
John. :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of John Boffemmyer IV
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 7:47 AM
To: cctech at classiccmp.org
Subject: local demolition of SAGE building
I saw this in today's copy of my local newspaper on-line. The location of
the building is in New Windsor, NY. Stewart International Airport -as some
of you know- sits on the border of the Town of Newburgh and New Windsor. It
used to be and still is to a degree, a major Marine, Army and Air Force
base. More currently, it is a commercial international airport and a base
for the Air Force, local Army and Air Force Reserves and touts a pair of the
biggest runways in the USA. It is the 3rd location on the list for emergency
landings for the Space Shuttles if something should go wrong. Unfortunately,
as this piece suggests, the military has already removed the actual SAGE
equipment from the building. I used to go on walks past this building as a
kid as there is a path near it that my family would take through a wooded
area (scenic stuff) and up until recently, was open to the public, sort of
like a park. I figured I'd send this to cctech because it has a lot of
historical relevance.
-John Boffemmyer IV
STORY AS FOLLOWS:
July 16, 2005
Cold War building faces colder reality
By Jeremiah Horrigan
Times Herald-Record
jhorrigan at th-record.com
New Windsor - You'll find it on the edge of Stewart International
Airport, a windowless, four-story concrete cube that looks like it could
withstand a nuclear blast.
And that's exactly what it was built to do.
If things had gone as many Americans feared during the Cold War, if the
Russian bombers had finally come over the horizon, the Semi-Automatic Ground
Environment building was the key to the country's military defense system.
The building that once thrummed with the tensions of a time when nuclear
Armageddon was a constant threat was abandonned by the military decades ago.
The unnerving skeleton of its legacy remain, including the war room, where
etched-glass maps of the Eastern U.S. display likely Russian targets. Above
the maps looms a doomsday tote board, meant to track the "progress" of World
War III.
Even before the '50s faded and ICBMs became the weapon of choice among
the world's super-powers, the SAGE building had become as antiquated as an
Edsel. It's now slated for the wrecking ball under the airport's new 20-year
master plan for development.
And that plan is under siege by a group of people who for years have
been laboring to transform the SAGE building into what they call a Cold War
Peace Museum.
Ulster County Legislator Susan Zimet has spearheaded the effort,
lobbying, fundraising and proselytizing on the building's behalf for the
past five years.
To her, the building isn't a dead relic but a living reminder of an era
she believes we forget at our peril.
"All the stuff we deal with daily - terrorism, the possibility of
nuclear terror or the situation in Korea - it all began with the Cold War."
Zimet's not much of a history buff herself, and, after years of
exploring possibilities, she's doubtful the building is suitable for
becoming a first-class museum.
But that, she argues, doesn't mean the building should be demolished.
Taking it down (at an estimated cost of nearly a million dollars) would be
no different than destroying Washington's headquarters in Newburgh, she
says.
Tanya Vanasse toured the building's interior recently. She wasn't
impressed. Vanasse is the airport's director of marketing. She sees no
reason to keep the building around.
The airport's master plan calls for the building to come down sometime
between 2008 and 2012, to make way for a rail yard that would be part of a
new train station, according to Zimet.
"I can see no viability of making this into a public space. It's far too
dangerous, it's got far too many accessibility problems," she said last
week. "I could see removing the (etched
glass) pieces and building a display around them."
Vanasse said the plan is open ended, that no hard-and-fast timetable
exists. Nevertheless, Zimet's group is urging people to sign petitions that
would preserve the building.
In the meantime, the SAGE building, silent and foreboding as a tomb,
continues to do what it has always done: It waits.
Anti-blast from the past was built to last
If it goes, the Semi-Automatic Ground Environment building won't go
easily. Its thick, lead-reinforced concrete walls were intended to withstand
the ravages of a nuclear holocaust.
Only a direct hit could have taken it out.
The building was designed in the mid-1950s as part of a network of
identical information-gathering centers built throughout the country that
was supposed to protect the country's nuclear bomber fleet. Its designers
intentionally made it so nondescript that only a handful of military
personnel even knew of its existence or purpose.
Its computer system was beyond compare, requiring thousands of square
feet and at least as many delicate transistors to track potential intruders.
Watching the skies at a SAGE building console, said one retired Air Force
veteran, was like something out of "Buck Rogers."
But, like so many other state-of-the-art defense systems, this one was
obsolete almost before it became operational. It was designed to combat
nuclear bombers. By the end of the decade, intercontinental ballistic
missiles had become the bomb delivery system of choice.
The structure was officially decommissioned in 1969. Since then, it has
served as a free-trade zone. Its ground floor is now occupied by a
chocolate- packaging factory.
Jeremiah Horrigan
E-mail this story
Print this story
Subscribe to the Record
Today's top
news headlines
. DPW blackmail unfolds
. Tragedy strikes family
. Locals doubt camp's zoning
. Cold War building faces colder reality . County trash hauler plans
recycling fee
See all of today's news stories.
Online special features
News
. Remembering the fallen
A tribute to the local soldiers we have lost.
. Middletown on Trial
Continuing coverage of the Mayor Destefano trial.
. Report Card 2005
A report card on our schools. Includes statistics on our local districts.
Have the top headlines from the Times
Herald-Record e-mailed to you every morning. Sign up here.
Have a tip about a news story? Contact THR Managing Editor Meg McGuire at
mmcguire at th-record.com or call 346-3041.
SPOTLIGHT ON ...
Otterkill Golf & Country Club
"Orange County's Premier Golf Course."
100 Otter Road
Campbell Hall, NY
845-427-2020
. Visit Website
Record Online is brought to you by the Times Herald-Record, serving New
York's Hudson Valley and the Catskills.
40 Mulberry Street * PO Box 2046 * Middletown, NY 10940 Telephone
845-341-1100 or 800-295-2181 outside the Middletown, N.Y., area.
Copyright Orange County Publications. All rights reserved.
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11:15 a.m.
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, 'Computer Collector Newsletter' wrote:
Before we say the reporter was wrong, consider this:
of course the main SAGE
computers in the 1950s used vacuum tubes, but isn't it likely that the
later, remote facilities (like the one in this story) used transistors?
The SAGE at Stewart was a full blown DC (Direction Center). According
to radomes.org, the AN/FSQ-7 was the only equipment installed, and it was
deactivated at the end of 1969. Coverage of the Boston Air Defense Sector
at Stewart was taken over by the SAGE at Hancock Field in Syracuse, in
November of 1969. Hancock's SAGE was one of the last to be deactivated,
in October of 1983.
Here's another article about Stewart's DC, from 2001:
http://www.nationaltrust.org/magazine/archives/arch_story/101701.htm
And a short blurb about SAGE at Stewart:
http://www.dmna.state.ny.us/forts/fortsQ_S/sage.htm
Here are some shots of the SAGE blockhouse at Stewart, as of 2001:
http://radomes.org/museum/recent/StewartAFBNY.html
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
12:38 p.m.
At 02:15 PM 7/19/2005 -0400, you wrote:
Here are some shots of the SAGE blockhouse at
Stewart, as of 2001:
http://radomes.org/museum/recent/StewartAFBNY.html
I'm following the links from radomes.org and reading with interest about SAGE.
At mitre.org it says:
-When complete, the AN/FSQ-7 weighed 250 tons, and required a 3,000kW
-power supply and over 49,000 vacuum tubes. When SAGE became fully
-operational, it relied on 24 AN/FSQ-7s; they remained in service
-until the Air Force ended the SAGE program in 1983.
Is this TRUE? Did they actually use vacuum tube computers up untill 1983?
--Chuck
12:44 p.m.
>>>> "Chuck" == Chuck Swiger
<cswiger at widomaker.com> writes:
Chuck> At 02:15 PM 7/19/2005 -0400, you wrote:
> Here are some shots of the SAGE blockhouse at
Stewart, as of 2001:
>
> http://radomes.org/museum/recent/StewartAFBNY.html
>
Chuck> I'm following the links from radomes.org and reading with
Chuck> interest about SAGE. At mitre.org it says:
Chuck> -When complete, the AN/FSQ-7 weighed 250 tons, and required a
Chuck> 3,000kW -power supply and over 49,000 vacuum tubes. When SAGE
Chuck> became fully -operational, it relied on 24 AN/FSQ-7s; they
Chuck> remained in service -until the Air Force ended the SAGE
Chuck> program in 1983.
Chuck> Is this TRUE? Did they actually use vacuum tube computers up
Chuck> untill 1983?
Sounds right. I remember reading about this.
It makes perfect sense. It's a critical application, and it has been
running reliably on that hardware. It makes sense to continue running
the hardware rather than deal with the cost and risk of porting it to
new, unproven, technology.
Another consideration: that machine had an amazing I/O bandwidth,
especially considering its age. It would not have been easy to
replace it in 1975.
Finally -- what abort porting all the software? I assume it was in
assembler.
paul
1:08 p.m.
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, Paul Koning wrote:
I understand. They must have run the 49,000 tubes pretty
conservatively to minimize failures (Unlike what we always
hear about ENIAC). Even in 1976 my Heathkit VTVM got
solid state plug in FET replacements for the two tubes ;)
--Chuck
>>>> "Chuck" == Chuck Swiger <cswiger at widomaker.com>
writes:
Chuck> Is this TRUE? Did they actually use vacuum tube computers up
Chuck> untill 1983?
It makes perfect sense. It's a critical application, and it has been
running reliably on that hardware. It makes sense to continue running
the hardware rather than deal with the cost and risk of porting it to
new, unproven, technology.
1:13 p.m.
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, cswiger wrote:
I understand. They must have run the 49,000 tubes
pretty
conservatively to minimize failures (Unlike what we always
hear about ENIAC). Even in 1976 my Heathkit VTVM got
solid state plug in FET replacements for the two tubes ;)
Preventive maintenance played a huge part in the reliability of the
system. The Q7 had a marginal checking system, which was used to test
sections of the computer by slightly increasing or decreasing voltages to
the modules. By running diagnostics with margins, we usually got a heads
up on which tubes were about to fail, and could replace them before they
actually failed in use.
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
12:47 p.m.
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, Chuck Swiger wrote:
I'm following the links from radomes.org and
reading with interest about
SAGE.
At mitre.org it says:
-When complete, the AN/FSQ-7 weighed 250 tons, and required a 3,000kW
-power supply and over 49,000 vacuum tubes. When SAGE became fully
-operational, it relied on 24 AN/FSQ-7s; they remained in service
-until the Air Force ended the SAGE program in 1983.
Is this TRUE? Did they actually use vacuum tube computers up untill 1983?
You betchum. I worked on the one at McChord AFB (25AD) from January
until August of 1983. It was shut down shortly after that. Even more
amazing, it was still doing the job up until the end. By using both
active and standby system, we had the ability to cover the airspace from
California up to British Columbia.
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
1:02 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Loewen" <mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 3:47 PM
Subject: RE: local demolition of SAGE building
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, Chuck Swiger wrote:
> I'm following the links from radomes.org and reading with interest about
> SAGE.
> At mitre.org it says:
>
> -When complete, the AN/FSQ-7 weighed 250 tons, and required a 3,000kW
> -power supply and over 49,000 vacuum tubes. When SAGE became fully
> -operational, it relied on 24 AN/FSQ-7s; they remained in service
> -until the Air Force ended the SAGE program in 1983.
>
> Is this TRUE? Did they actually use vacuum tube computers up untill
1983?
You betchum. I worked on the one at McChord AFB (25AD) from January
until August of 1983. It was shut down shortly after that. Even more
amazing, it was still doing the job up until the end. By using both
active and standby system, we had the ability to cover the airspace from
California up to British Columbia.
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
How many vacuum tubes would need to be replaced yearly, and how would a few
breaking affect the functioning of that equipment in real time?
1:23 p.m.
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, Teo Zenios wrote:
How many vacuum tubes would need to be replaced
yearly, and how would a few
breaking affect the functioning of that equipment in real time?
I don't have the figures for annual tube replacement, but it was a
continuous process. As I mentioned in my last note, the marginal checking
system allowed us to pull suspected flaky or about-to-fail tubes before
they failed on duty.
Various SAGE histories have reported "technicians running up and down
the aisles pushing shopping carts full of tubes". I don't know about
other air divisions, but I never saw it.
Towards the end of the system's life, the remaining SAGE systems had to
make due with tubes scrounged from previously deactivated systems.
According to others who worked on the system, sometimes the replacements
were worse than the ones currently in use.
The SAGE system actually had two computerss: one running the air
defense program and the other usually on standby. When the standby system
wasn't undergoing preventive maintenance (PM), it would be receiving
updates from the active system in case it needed to take over. If the
standby system sensed that the active computer was no longer functioning
correctly, it would automatically switch over and start cycling the air
defense program. If something happened that the standby didn't
automatically switch in case of a failure, we'd have to do a manual
switchover. Depending on the circumstances, this procedure could take up
to 3 minutes, which is all the down time we were allowed before having to
report a "noplex" condition to NORAD.
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
23 Jul
23 Jul
8:59 p.m.
Various SAGE histories have reported
"technicians running up and down
the aisles pushing shopping carts full of tubes". I don't know about
other air divisions, but I never saw it.
Perhaps when the systems were first installed - tube computers went thru
lots of tube during the first few months of life. Once the break in period
was finished, and all the weak tubes were weeded out, tube machines are
reasonably reliable. Most of the tubes in my SAGE junk appear to be
originals.
Of course, with 50000 tubes, some are still going to go bad over the
years.
Towards the end of the system's life, the
remaining SAGE systems had to
make due with tubes scrounged from previously deactivated systems.
It seems to me there are a few oddball types in /FSQ-7 hardware - probably
easier scrounged than getting them thru proper supply channels.
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org
24 Jul
24 Jul
3:56 a.m.
On Sat, 2005-07-23 at 23:59 -0400, William Donzelli wrote:
And as found with Colossus, it's power cycling that really kills them,
so keep that to a minimum and they tend to last pretty well. I'll have
to ask what the failure rate was with the original Colossus machines,
also it's possible that never got documented anywhere (at least anywhere
that isn't still classified)
Various
SAGE histories have reported "technicians running up and down
the aisles pushing shopping carts full of tubes". I don't know about
other air divisions, but I never saw it.
Perhaps when the systems were first installed - tube computers went thru
lots of tube during the first few months of life. Once the break in period
was finished, and all the weak tubes were weeded out, tube machines are
reasonably reliable. Most of the tubes in my SAGE junk appear to be
originals.
9:32 a.m.
And as found with Colossus, it's power cycling
that really kills them,
so keep that to a minimum and they tend to last pretty well.
That may be a Colossus-only effect, as it did not use low power computer
tubes. The minis and subminis of the 1950s, made for computer usage, were
really not effected by power cycling. Filament burnouts on these types of
tubes are exceeding rare.
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org
10:11 a.m.
The minis and subminis of the 1950s, made for computer
usage,
were really not effected by power cycling. Filament burnouts on these
types of tubes are exceeding rare.
But inter-element shorts and leakage become more common, and my
experience (backed up by many years of leaky/shorted tubes) is that
these are related to power-on cycles. (i.e. "it worked last time I
used it, but then I turned it on and all it does is hum").
Maybe reduced sizes make physical tolerances between the elements more
critical in the smaller tubes. Even though a lot of the leakage
I've seen is between adjacent pins, not between adjacent elements.
Tim.
1:11 p.m.
But inter-element shorts and leakage become more
common, and my
experience (backed up by many years of leaky/shorted tubes) is that
these are related to power-on cycles. (i.e. "it worked last time I
used it, but then I turned it on and all it does is hum").
Maybe reduced sizes make physical tolerances between the elements more
critical in the smaller tubes. Even though a lot of the leakage
I've seen is between adjacent pins, not between adjacent elements.
Leakage and shorts went down dramatically in the 1950s, when the tube
makers started making the tubes in (mostly) clean room environments, with
better automation. Subminis, the tubes that will-not-die, were made in
real clean rooms.
I do not know of any non-military computer system that used subminis.
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org
1:28 p.m.
Leakage and shorts went down dramatically in the
1950s, when
the tube makers started making the tubes in (mostly) clean
room environments, with better automation. Subminis, the
tubes that will-not-die, were made in real clean rooms.
I do not know of any non-military computer system that used subminis.
I used to have a handful of those submini tubes but I can't find one now. If
anybody has a spare, even a dead one, that they could send us it would be
nice to have one on display. Right now the only tube era parts we have are a
core plane and an IBM tube circuit with a bunch of miniature tubes - mostly
9 pin. The rectifier had been replaced at some point with a solid state
component that plugged in a 9-pin socket.
Gil
A. G. (Gil) Carrick, Director
The Museum at CSE
University of Texas at Arlington
Department of Computer Science & Engineering
Box 19015, 471 S Cooper Street
Arlington, TX 76019
817-272-3620
http://www.cse.uta.edu/TheMuseum at CSE/
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org
28 Jul
28 Jul
5:54 p.m.
I used to have a handful of those submini tubes but I
can't find one now. If
anybody has a spare, even a dead one, that they could send us it would be
nice to have one on display. Right now the only tube era parts we have are a
core plane and an IBM tube circuit with a bunch of miniature tubes - mostly
9 pin. The rectifier had been replaced at some point with a solid state
component that plugged in a 9-pin socket.
I have a few - remind me later to send one.
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org
4 Aug
4 Aug
9:12 p.m.
New subject: Nice day today
Had a nice day today. Dropped by the Surplus department. They keep an eye
out for stuff for me. If it's old enough I can usually get it at no "cost".
They had a nice TI PRO Basic Comp with the monitor, a couple of Rockwell
8315s that I have not identified yet, an IBM 3274 and an Intel Intellec MDS,
complete with dual 8" floppy and a PROM burner. Probably no software or
docs.
Gil
A. G. (Gil) Carrick, Director
The Museum at CSE
University of Texas at Arlington
Department of Computer Science & Engineering
Box 19015, 471 S Cooper Street
Arlington, TX 76019
817-272-3620
http://www.cse.uta.edu/TheMuseum at CSE/
13 Nov
13 Nov
7:31 p.m.
Per your reply, I am reminding you of my interest in a submini tube for our
museum.
Gil
...
I used to have
a handful of those submini tubes but I can't
find one
now. If anybody has a spare, even a dead one,
that they
could send us
it would be nice to have one on display. Right
now the only
tube era
parts we have are a core plane and an IBM tube
circuit with
a bunch of
miniature tubes - mostly
9 pin. The rectifier had been replaced at some point with a solid
state component that plugged in a 9-pin socket.
I have a few - remind me later to send one.
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org
19 Jul
19 Jul
2:19 p.m.
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, Chuck Swiger wrote:
At 02:15 PM 7/19/2005 -0400, you wrote:
Yes.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
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Here are some shots of the SAGE blockhouse at
Stewart, as of 2001:
http://radomes.org/museum/recent/StewartAFBNY.html
I'm following the links from radomes.org and reading with interest about SAGE.
At mitre.org it says:
-When complete, the AN/FSQ-7 weighed 250 tons, and required a 3,000kW
-power supply and over 49,000 vacuum tubes. When SAGE became fully
-operational, it relied on 24 AN/FSQ-7s; they remained in service
-until the Air Force ended the SAGE program in 1983.
Is this TRUE? Did they actually use vacuum tube computers up untill 1983?
20 Jul
20 Jul
3:14 a.m.
Did they actually use vacuum tube computers up until
1983?
Yep. And the military continued buying tubes for radio equipment
through most of the 1980's. Many of the excesses are making their
way to the surplus market... look at the datestamps on JAN tubes
showing up NOS NIB on E-bay.
The military still buys microwave/high-power/CRT tubes of course.
Tim.
19 Jul
19 Jul
2:17 p.m.
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, 'Computer Collector Newsletter' wrote:
Before we say the reporter was wrong, consider this:
of course the main SAGE
computers in the 1950s used vacuum tubes, but isn't it likely that the
later, remote facilities (like the one in this story) used transistors?
No.
;)
Plain and simple, this reporter did not do their homework.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
20 Jul
20 Jul
3:55 p.m.
John,
After reading this description of the building, I immediately recalled a
building that I've seen around here. While helping my sister and her
husband move, I saw a very solid looking building, that had Go Away
written all over it. I wondered what it had been, or what was in it
now. After doing a bit of reasearch, I now find that it was part of a
SAGE installion! Wow, something really cool in my very own home town!
Here it is then:
http://www.radomes.org/museum/photos/FortCusterMISAGEcenter.jpg
Here it is now:
http://www.radomes.org/museum/recent/FortCusterMI.html
As you can see, it looks to be in pretty good shape!
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
John Boffemmyer IV wrote:
STORY AS FOLLOWS:
Anti-blast from the past was built to last
If it goes, the Semi-Automatic Ground Environment building won't go
easily. Its thick, lead-reinforced concrete walls were intended to
withstand the ravages of a nuclear holocaust. Only a direct hit could
have taken it out.
The building was designed in the mid-1950s as part of a network of
identical information-gathering centers built throughout the country
that was supposed to protect the country's nuclear bomber fleet. Its
designers intentionally made it so nondescript that only a handful of
military personnel even knew of its existence or purpose.
25 Jul
25 Jul
12:01 p.m.
Mitre Corporation has a nice page of photographs of the
FSQ-7 computers showing nice detail.
these links are from radome.org. thanks for that link. It will take
a while to explore it all.
Jim
http://www.mitre.org/about/photo_archives/sage_photo.html
John Boffemmyer IV wrote:
I saw this in today's copy of my local newspaper
on-line. The location of the building is in New
Windsor, NY. Stewart International Airport -as
6740
days inactive
6861
days old
24 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
aw288＠osfn.org -
csmuseum＠cse.uta.edu -
cswiger＠widomaker.com -
fernande＠internet1.net -
john_boffemmyer_iv＠boff-net.dhs.org -
julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk -
jwstephens＠msm.umr.edu -
mloewen＠cpumagic.scol.pa.us -
news＠computercollector.com -
pkoning＠equallogic.com -
shoppa_classiccmp＠trailing-edge.com -
teoz＠neo.rr.com -
vcf＠siconic.com