- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by Bob.Adamson＠sli-institute.ac.uk

> I was playing blackjack (BASIC program) on SIMH with my OS/8 RL02 image. I > noticed that every time I played the game the cards drawn were identical, > both by the dealer and myself! A loop to print RND(0) ten times always > shows the same ten numbers... doesn't sound very random to me :) > > Is this an artifact of SIMH, or BASIC? (Will it go away when I run the > program on the real 8/A)? > In fact many high level languages (and even implementations of hardware design languages such as Verilog) frequently support the concept of a repeatable series of pseudo-random numbers to aid in debugging with a switch to randomise the seed. Bob

20 years, 7 months

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cleaning keyboards in the dishwasher

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Jan 10 2006, 5:49, William Maddox wrote: > Putting a keyboard in the dishwasher doesn't strike me as a particularly > good idea. Unless you disassemble the keyboard anyway, there will be > water trapped inside that will dry out very slowly. I would agree. Although I've been known to use the dishwasher for PCBs, it's only faster than handwashing if you have several to do, and you do need to make sure you can drain the water and dry the boards off. Besides, you rarely need to wash a keyboard unless someone has poured coffee or cola into it. Usually it's only the keytops that need washed, and the rest wants a brush out. An easy way to wash lots of keytops is to put them in a pillowcase, make sure the end is well tied, and put them in a cool wash in the clothes washer. You can tumble dry them that way too. If it's just one keyboard, it's usually quicker to just handwash them in a small bowl and dry them with a towel and perhaps some compressed air, though. > I have an excellent tool for pulling keycaps that came with a Northgate > Omnikey keyboard. There are two wire loops attached to a handle. I have one of those. Far and away the best tool for the job. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 7 months

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Doesn't *anyone* have those 11/24 switch settings?

by charlesmorris＠direcway.com

for the -YA revision-E M7133 CPU? I've searched everywhere on bitsavers & google. I also posted on alt.sys.pdp11 and mailed the webmasters of several pdp-11 sites directly... please help! thanks Charles

20 years, 7 months

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RL drive problems ...?

by charlesmorris＠direcway.com

There are multiple ground wires in the 40 pin ribbon cable (that becomes a round cable between the controller card and the RL02). The RL02 end (at logic board J12) has ground on: VV, UU, LL, KK, FF, EE, BB, AA, U, V, P, R, K, L and A. Having all those fail would be pretty unlikely... It wouldn't hurt, though, to have frame ground (the cabinets) all tied together and make sure they are properly grounded to the power outlet ground pin. -Charles

20 years, 7 months

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Measuring regulator values on H745

by ISC277＠CLCILLINOIS.EDU

Okay, I was trying to find out if my H745 is shady, so I busted out the DVM and put the probes on the blue wire and a ground wire. (blue is supposed to be -15v) Nothing. Okay, so just to check my logic, I hooked the probe to what is supposed to be a +5v line and a ground on the same connector, and the light on the 7441 regulator goes out. Nothing on the DVM. The DVM is set to "20" in the "DC volts" area (it's one of those yellow dial type DVMs) Deposits work, but exams cause a bus error. My power supply isn't shot in all areas, so how am I measuring this wrong? I'm measuring at the power control board, where the backplane connectors are plugged in, and I'm using the BA11-K manual and prints as a reference for the wire values. What am I doing wrong?

20 years, 7 months

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Need help on multibus HD controller

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > >On 1/10/2006 at 3:15 PM Dwight Elvey wrote: > >>Hi Chuck >> I was thinking you had information on one of the controller boards >>based on the 8X300 with the WD11xx parts. I've already gotten >>enough information on both the WD11xx and the 8X300 to create >>a simple disassembler. I also needed some hardware specific >>inputs because the board I'm looking at does specific hardware >>fuctions based on the address that the 8X300 is executing >>( similar to many bit slice designs ). This required a custom >>disassembler. > >Ah--sometimes you hafta whack me upside ma haid to the bits movin' again! > >Yes, indeed, I've got the WD1001 OEM manual--it's got schematics, >waveforms, PCB layout and interfacing instructions, including a sample >driver. It's pretty thick--best guess is about 75 pages. I could scan >it, but it'd a bit big to email. > >Cheers, >Chck > > Hi Chuck I just noticed that Al had it on his bitsavers ftp ( all 57 pages ). It should help some in figuring things out. Tony sent me a ROM dump he thinks came from one of these. Take Care Dwight

20 years, 7 months

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Need help on multibus HD controller

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > >On 1/10/2006 at 1:08 PM Dwight Elvey wrote: > >> Sorry for the late response. This was from the begining of >>October. Can you look into your manual and see if it has >>the 8X300 controller chip with the WD11xx support chips? >>If so, I'd be interested in a copy of it. > >Hi Dwight, > >Well, yes and no. The WD book doesn't have a thing on the 8X300 or 305 >because it's not a WD part, but rather a Signetics part! I do have the >Signetics "Bipolar LSI Data Manual" which does detail both the 300 and 305; >is that what you're looking for? > >Cheers, >Chuck > > Hi Chuck I was thinking you had information on one of the controller boards based on the 8X300 with the WD11xx parts. I've already gotten enough information on both the WD11xx and the 8X300 to create a simple disassembler. I also needed some hardware specific inputs because the board I'm looking at does specific hardware fuctions based on the address that the 8X300 is executing ( similar to many bit slice designs ). This required a custom disassembler. I'm told that the TRS-80 Model4 used these parts for their hard disk controller. From looking at the code I have extracted >from the Olivetti board, I'd say they didn't modify the code from WD's original application notes. I'd suspect the same for the TRS-80 controller as well. I noticed that there is a reset action that doesn't effect the M20's controller since it is used for DMA circuits that are not even connected in this controller. I suspect this was in the original app note. I'll have to do a little net digging on the TRS-80. I suspect I'll come up with the controller commands from the computer side. These are what I'm actually looking for. Dwight

20 years, 7 months

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cleaning keyboards in the dishwasher

by James＠jdfogg.com

> I know of no dishwasher detergent that contains chlorine (which is a > gas) nor large amounts of chlorine-based bleaches. (Mild) > Bleaches and brightners are common in *clothes* detergents > where there are good for stain removal, but they're *not* > good in dishwashers, where the bleach would tend to fade > patterns on crockery. Therefore dishwasher detergent > manufacturers use only very small amounts, if any, and > they're usually oxygen-based. I smell chlorine during the wash cycle and it's not coming from our private well water, and I had assumed it was in the mix to promote sanitization as it is for commercial dishwashers used in restaurants. As for chlorine being a gas, yes it prefers to be a gas at room temperature and sea level atmospheric pressures, but is released by many different forms of solid chemicals that disolve in water and release the chlorine to the water, from which it evaporates into a gas (like for swimming pool sanitization). > More to the point though, they don't contain silicon dioxide, > at least not any I've come across (btw it's silicon, not > silicone). They might feel gritty, but that's not sand, it's > solid detergent. If you dissolve dishwasher detergent (loose > powder or a tablet) in a jug of water, it will eventually > dissolve completely, leaving no sand behind. > Do you think manufacturers would put sand, one of the few > common substances that will scour glass, into a substance > used for cleaning glassware? Something in powdered detergents would "sandblast" the previously shiny surface of the soft plastic handles of our Revereware pots. Liquid detergents don't cause this problem.

20 years, 7 months

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Measuring regulator values on H745

by henk.gooijen＠oce.com

I worked on a BA11K PSU just a month ago. One 5V brick was defective ... You are correct, the blue wire (there is just one blue wire to the distribution panel) is indeed -15V. What is happening to the H7441 when you try to make a measurement puzzles me, though. Most of the power bricks only need 20-30 VAC input, so with a small 1A. transformer that puts out some 24V, you can check the brick on the bench outside the BA11K, which is a lot easier to work on. The "bad" news is that there is on exception, the H745 ... that one needs, besides the 20-30 VAC, also +15VDC for proper operation. But as discussed in another thread, a good bench has a laborytory power supply ... - Henk, PA8PDP. ________________________________ Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org namens Wolfe, Julian Verzonden: di 10-01-2006 22:05 Aan: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Onderwerp: Measuring regulator values on H745 Okay, I was trying to find out if my H745 is shady, so I busted out the DVM and put the probes on the blue wire and a ground wire. (blue is supposed to be -15v) Nothing. Okay, so just to check my logic, I hooked the probe to what is supposed to be a +5v line and a ground on the same connector, and the light on the 7441 regulator goes out. Nothing on the DVM. The DVM is set to "20" in the "DC volts" area (it's one of those yellow dial type DVMs) Deposits work, but exams cause a bus error. My power supply isn't shot in all areas, so how am I measuring this wrong? I'm measuring at the power control board, where the backplane connectors are plugged in, and I'm using the BA11-K manual and prints as a reference for the wire values. What am I doing wrong? This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message. Thank you for your cooperation.

20 years, 7 months

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RL drive problems ...?

by henk.gooijen＠oce.com

I *assume* that the cable has at least one wire that connects ground of the RL11/RLV1[12] controller to ground of the RL drive. Further, I have never seen an RL drive that had a ground wire connected from the metal cahssis of the drive to the ground of the cabinet in which the drives was mounted. I have once seen a cable that had a braided wire at one end (or was it on both ends?), but AFAIK was that the cable for an RLV controller installed in a BA23 or BA123 box. That is a short cable (IIRC 50 cm) to the bulkhead at the rear side of the box. So, what you describe (strange things if not grounded) are effects that I have not seen (up till now) ... Perhaps the experts can elaborate more, as I do not consider myself to be an expert :-) - Henk, PA8PDP. ________________________________ Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org namens Julian Wolfe Verzonden: di 10-01-2006 21:53 Aan: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Onderwerp: RE: RL drive problems ...? I know this sounds stupid, but is the cable grounded? I've had really stupid/strange things happen when my RL02 cable is not grounded properly. This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message. Thank you for your cooperation.

20 years, 7 months

1
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Need help on multibus HD controller

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

Hi Chuck Sorry for the late response. This was from the begining of October. Can you look into your manual and see if it has the 8X300 controller chip with the WD11xx support chips? If so, I'd be interested in a copy of it. Thanks Dwight >From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > >I've got the OEM manual for the WD 1001 controller, if that'd help. > >Chuck > > >

20 years, 7 months

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Measuring regulator values on H745

by ISC277＠CLCILLINOIS.EDU

Okay, I was trying to find out if my H745 is shady, so I busted out the DVM and put the probes on the blue wire and a ground wire. (blue is supposed to be -15v) Nothing. Okay, so just to check my logic, I hooked the probe to what is supposed to be a +5v line and a ground on the same connector, and the light on the 7441 regulator goes out. Nothing on the DVM. The DVM is set to "20" in the "DC volts" area (it's one of those yellow dial type DVMs) Deposits work, but exams cause a bus error. My power supply isn't shot in all areas, so how am I measuring this wrong? I'm measuring at the power control board, where the backplane connectors are plugged in, and I'm using the BA11-K manual and prints as a reference for the wire values. What am I doing wrong?

20 years, 7 months

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RL drive problems ...?

by henk.gooijen＠oce.com

Hi, I would like to hear from the specialists what they have to say about this problem. I finally got my 11/34C running again. It has an RL11 and has two RL02 and one RL01 connected. Most of the time I cannot boot RT11 from the RL02-DC, but sometimes the boot is successfull! If the boot fails, I see the READY lamp of the drive flash once, then the RUN light goes off, and the display shows 000004. BTW, at the end of the RL drive chain is of course the terminator. The cartridge was written while the system was still in my house (some 3 years gao, at some 20" Celcius), but the system is now in a 12" Celcius environment. Could the temperature difference make the disk too difficult to read in the nwe conditions? When RT11 runs, and I only do a .DIR command of the disk, is there something written to the disk? That could make the disk "useless", because of the 20"/12" Celsius issues? Another problem that I have since I have power for my systems is that the READY lamp of the RL01 is *always* ON. The FAULT lamp is OK - and is OFF. I have not yet investigated this problem, but hints in advance are appreciated :-) [would save me some time, to work on the other projects, like the floppy disk interface for the 6809 Core Board...] BTW, the system worked fine, 3 years ago ... it has power since a few weeks, and I had a lot of problem getting the 11/34C up and running, but that would be a different story too ... greetz, - Henk, PA8PDP This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message. Thank you for your cooperation.

20 years, 7 months

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cleaning keyboards in the dishwasher

by James＠jdfogg.com

> Sometimes I wonder if tomorrow's lead will be today's > mercury--that is, schools will be closed for three days > because some child brought in a fishing sinker to show and tell.. That day is close, lead fishing weights are banned in some states because waterfowl, especially Loons, were being killed off from ingesting lead weights while foraging on the bottom of lakes. > Maybe I'm too old to deliver a modern opinion on how much > exposure is safe. > Heck, I still miss carbon tet and zinc chromate. I miss DDT.

20 years, 7 months

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cleaning keyboards in the dishwasher

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Jan 6 2006, 16:20, Bj??rn Vermo wrote: > On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 15:26:13 +0100, James Fogg <James at jdfogg.com> wrote: > > > > All automatic dishwasher detergents have lots of chlorine and might > > bleach (great for discolored plastics), > > Not just that, it might cause highly unwanted chemical reactions with some > plastics, and certainly with any exposed copper. > > > Powdered automatic dish detergent has silicone dioxide (sand) and will > > scour your boards, > > > > Because of the above 2 items you might want to use "hand" dishwashing > > detergent, but not much since it will foam, > > I would suggest crystal soda, it is a good detergent and not overly > caustic, and the rinsing cycle will get rid of residues. > Ammonia solution would work, but would be quite smelly. Some of you seem to have slightly odd ideas about detergents :-) I know of no dishwasher detergent that contains chlorine (which is a gas) nor large amounts of chlorine-based bleaches. (Mild) Bleaches and brightners are common in *clothes* detergents where there are good for stain removal, but they're *not* good in dishwashers, where the bleach would tend to fade patterns on crockery. Therefore dishwasher detergent manufacturers use only very small amounts, if any, and they're usually oxygen-based. More to the point though, they don't contain silicon dioxide, at least not any I've come across (btw it's silicon, not silicone). They might feel gritty, but that's not sand, it's solid detergent. If you dissolve dishwasher detergent (loose powder or a tablet) in a jug of water, it will eventually dissolve completely, leaving no sand behind. Do you think manufacturers would put sand, one of the few common substances that will scour glass, into a substance used for cleaning glassware? If you're worried about the powder, it's perfectly possible to get liquid dishwater detergent. Crystal soda is not a detergent. It's sodium carbonate, Na2CO3. It *is* caustic, it's a mild alkali. That's why it works -- it saponifies oils, in the same way caustic soda or caustic potash do. That is to say, it chemically reacts with oil and similar things to turn them into something water-miscible. Detergent, on the other hand, does not react with oils, it works like soap to mix with free oily substances and water. Ammonia is worse and not good for some plasics. Don't put those in your dishwasher. Finally, detergent won't damage copper, aluminium, steel, or other metal. Water will. Detergents can remove oils and other thin-film coating that might protect metal, so it is wise to dry things carefully after getting them wet because water and air can cause corrosion, but it's not the detergent that does that, it's the water. Well, actually it's the air, but water permits various electrolytic reactions that hasten the process. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 7 months

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Paul Allen opens PDP Planet web site

by wacarder＠earthlink.net

-----Original Message----- >From: Jim Battle <frustum at pacbell.net> >Sent: Jan 10, 2006 10:13 AM >To: General Discussion at null, On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>, null at null >Subject: Re: Paul Allen opens PDP Planet web site > >Robert Feldman wrote: >> There is a short article on the site at >> http://www.theregister.com/2006/01/10/allen_pdp/ >> >> The site is at http://www.pdpplanet.com/ > >http://www.pdpplanet.com/TemplateMain.aspx?contentId=7 > >The link to the Wofford Witch page is there, explaining the uptick in activity >on that page that Ashley Carder noted. > Perhaps I should spend some time beefing up my site, adding more technical info (which I've been intending to do, but just have not done), and adding more information about how to find your way around on the system. Ashley

20 years, 7 months

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cleaning keyboards in the dishwasher

by James＠jdfogg.com

> James Fogg wrote: > > > I miss DDT. > Ob. On-topic: I always preferred ODT anyway. > > Gordon. > DDT *is* on-topic, it's the debugger in CP/M. :-)

20 years, 7 months

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Non-random numbers (SIMH PDP-8)?

by wacarder＠earthlink.net

I don't know about the OS8 PDP-8 BASIC, but on the RSTS/E PDP-11 Basic-Plus, the same sequence of random numbers would always be returned unless you used the RANDOMIZE statement, which changes the random number seed. If your PDP-8 OS8 BASIC supports it, add a RANDOMIZE statement and you should then get a different series of random numbers each time. Ashley -----Original Message----- >From: charlesmorris at direcway.com >Sent: Jan 10, 2006 9:24 AM >To: cctalk at classiccmp.org >Subject: Non-random numbers (SIMH PDP-8)? > >I was playing blackjack (BASIC program) on SIMH with my OS/8 RL02 image. I noticed that every time I played the game the cards drawn were identical, both by the dealer and myself! A loop to print RND(0) ten times always shows the same ten numbers... doesn't sound very random to me :) > >Is this an artifact of SIMH, or BASIC? (Will it go away when I run the program on the real 8/A)? > >thanks >Charles > >

20 years, 7 months

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ImageDisk under Win2k

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: dave04a at dunfield.com > >> Dave Dunfield wrote: >> >> > >> > IMD needs: >> > - unrestricted access to the floppy disk controller hardware. >> > - Nobody else messing with the FDC hardware/interrupts while it is >> > active. >> > - to not be held-up while some other task decides to hog the CPU for >> > a little while (there are real-time critical aspects to the analysis phase) >> > >> > Winders 2K fails on pretty much all of the above. I haven't tried VPC, but >> >> Matter of interest, and I haven't got time to try it, but will it work >> in FreeDOS? > >I have not tried it (don't have FD installed anywhere), however I don't see why >it would not - as long as FD leaves the FDC alone when it's not accessing it it >should be OK (I access the FDC by direct manipulation - the only DOS >functions I use specifically relating to the FDC are get/set the interrupt vector, >and the only BIOS function I use is "reset disk system" which I do just before >I exit). Hi Dave How do you deal with DMA? On my code I needed to setup the DMA controller as well. Dwight > >Regards, >Dave >-- >dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield >dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com >com Vintage computing equipment collector.

20 years, 7 months

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Kaypro 10 Western Digital Hard Disk Controller WD 1002-HD0

by james＠slor.net

Richard - I found your name in an old post referencing the 1002-HDO controller, and I was wondering if you have any information on how to do a low level format with it. I have been looking for a while to get my Kaypro 16 up and running, but I have not had any luck. Is it hiding from me in the controller rom? Do I need an external program? If you have any info, I'd most appreciate any pointers. If you still have the scans of the datasheet/manual, I'd love to get ahold of them as well. Thanks! -- James

20 years, 7 months

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GAMES on the Wofford Witch

by wacarder＠earthlink.net

Here are all of the games in the GAME: directory on the Witch. If anyone wants to try their hand at some 1970s games, log on and try them out. My all time favorite is GAME:ADVENT (Colossal Cave Adventure). DIR GAME: Name .Ext Size Prot Date DK2:[1,5] LIFE .MAC 49 < 60> 02-Jan-77 LIFE .SAV 9 <104> 02-Jan-77 TREK .DOC 6 < 40> 02-Jan-77 TREK .PIC 28 < 40> 02-Jan-77 TREK1 .DOC 9 < 40> 02-Jan-77 1CHECK.BAS 5 < 40> 02-Jan-77 23MTCH.BAS 3 < 40> 02-Jan-77 ACEYDU.BAS 5 < 40> 02-Jan-77 AMAZIN.BAS 8 < 40> 02-Jan-77 ANIML2.BAS 9 < 40> 02-Jan-77 AWARI .BAS 6 < 40> 02-Jan-77 BAGLES.BAS 5 < 40> 02-Jan-77 BIG6 .BAS 8 < 40> 02-Jan-77 BLKJAC.BAS 17 < 40> 02-Jan-77 BLKJK .BAS 5 < 40> 02-Jan-77 BOMBER.BAS 6 < 40> 02-Jan-77 BOUNCE.BAS 3 < 40> 02-Jan-77 BOWL .BAS 6 < 40> 02-Jan-77 BOXING.BAS 8 < 40> 02-Jan-77 BUG .BAS 13 < 40> 02-Jan-77 BULCOW.BAS 6 < 40> 02-Jan-77 BULEYE.BAS 3 < 40> 02-Jan-77 BUZZWD.BAS 6 < 40> 02-Jan-77 CHEKER.BAS 5 < 40> 02-Jan-77 CHIEF .BAS 4 < 40> 02-Jan-77 CHOMP .BAS 6 < 40> 02-Jan-77 CIVILW.BAS 16 < 40> 02-Jan-77 CRAPS .BAS 6 < 40> 02-Jan-77 DEFUSE.BAS 4 < 40> 02-Jan-77 DIGIT .BAS 5 < 40> 02-Jan-77 DRINKS.BAS 5 < 40> 02-Jan-77 EVEN .BAS 4 < 40> 02-Jan-77 FATHER.BAS 9 < 40> 02-Jan-77 FLPFOP.BAS 5 < 40> 02-Jan-77 FOOTBL.BAS 17 < 40> 02-Jan-77 FURS .BAS 12 < 40> 02-Jan-77 GEOWAR.BAS 10 < 40> 02-Jan-77 GOMOKO.BAS 4 < 40> 02-Jan-77 GUNER1.BAS 7 < 40> 02-Jan-77 GUNNER.BAS 4 < 40> 02-Jan-77 HANG .BAS 7 < 40> 02-Jan-77 HILO .BAS 2 < 40> 02-Jan-77 HIQ .BAS 8 < 40> 02-Jan-77 HMRABI.BAS 9 < 40> 02-Jan-77 HOCKEY.BAS 12 < 40> 02-Jan-77 KENO .BAS 8 < 40> 02-Jan-77 KING .BAS 19 < 40> 02-Jan-77 LIFE .BAS 4 < 40> 02-Jan-77 LIFE2 .BAS 5 < 40> 02-Jan-77 MADLB2.BAS 11 < 40> 02-Jan-77 MADLIB.BAS 11 < 40> 02-Jan-77 MAGIC .BAS 6 < 40> 02-Jan-77 MATHDI.BAS 4 < 40> 02-Jan-77 MNPLYF.BAS 8 < 40> 02-Jan-77 MONPLY.BAS 16 < 40> 02-Jan-77 MUGWMP.BAS 4 < 40> 02-Jan-77 NICOMA.BAS 2 < 40> 02-Jan-77 NIM .BAS 9 < 40> 02-Jan-77 REVRSE.BAS 5 < 40> 02-Jan-77 ROCKET.BAS 7 < 40> 02-Jan-77 ROCKT1.BAS 6 < 40> 02-Jan-77 ROTATE.BAS 5 < 40> 02-Jan-77 ROULET.BAS 12 < 40> 02-Jan-77 SALVO .BAS 13 < 40> 02-Jan-77 SALVO1.BAS 6 < 40> 02-Jan-77 SNOOPY.BAS 7 < 40> 02-Jan-77 SPACWR.BAS 37 < 40> 02-Jan-77 SPLAT .BAS 11 < 40> 02-Jan-77 STARS .BAS 4 < 40> 02-Jan-77 STOCK .BAS 15 < 40> 02-Jan-77 TARGET.BAS 5 < 40> 02-Jan-77 TICTAC.BAS 5 < 40> 02-Jan-77 TOWER .BAS 8 < 40> 02-Jan-77 TRAIN .BAS 2 < 40> 02-Jan-77 TRAP .BAS 3 < 40> 02-Jan-77 TREK .BAS 32 < 40> 02-Jan-77 TREK1 .BAS 16 < 40> 02-Jan-77 TVPLOT.BAS 5 < 40> 02-Jan-77 UGLY .BAS 4 < 40> 02-Jan-77 WEKDAY.BAS 7 < 40> 02-Jan-77 YAHTZY.BAS 5 < 40> 02-Jan-77 ZOOP .BAS 3 < 40> 02-Jan-77 SEAWAR.BAS 14 < 40> 02-Jan-77 GOLF .BAS 13 < 40> 02-Jan-77 FOTBAL.BAS 15 < 40> 02-Jan-77 GUESS .BAS 2 < 40> 02-Jan-77 HORSES.BAS 7 < 40> 02-Jan-77 ADVTXT.TXT 126 < 40> 02-Jan-77 ADVENT.SAZ 93 <104> 02-Jan-77 LUNAR .BAS 7 < 40> 02-Jan-77 MSTMND.BAS 7 < 40> 02-Jan-77 SHIP .BAS 20 < 40> 02-Jan-77 STRKJG.BAS 42 < 40> 02-Jan-77 GRDIT .BAS 3 < 40> 02-Jan-77 SLOTS .BAS 6 < 40> 02-Jan-77 SHRINK.BAS 6 < 40> 02-Jan-77 PIZZA .BAS 5 < 40> 02-Jan-77 POET .BAS 3 < 40> 02-Jan-77 POETRY.BAS 11 < 40> 02-Jan-77 POKER .BAS 15 < 40> 02-Jan-77 CHANGE.BAS 3 < 40> 02-Jan-77 LETTER.BAS 2 < 40> 02-Jan-77 GERMAN.BAS 6 < 40> 02-Jan-77 GERMAN.RAW 14 < 40> 02-Jan-77 PICTUR.BAS 7 < 40> 02-Jan-77 WORD .BAS 3 < 40> 02-Jan-77 GAMES .BAS 11 < 40> 02-Jan-77 SPCINV.SAV 10 <104> 02-Jan-77 PACMAN.SAV 28 <104> 02-Jan-77 ADVENT.DOC 6 < 40> 02-Jan-77 ADVENT.HLP 8 < 40> 02-Jan-77 RUSROU.BAS 5 < 40> 02-Jan-77 SWAMI .BAS 8 < 40> 02-Jan-77 ANDY .PIC 11 < 40> 02-Jan-77 ANNIE .PIC 8 < 40> 02-Jan-77 CATCAL.PIC 117 < 40> 02-Jan-77 COYOTE.PIC 8 < 40> 02-Jan-77 ENTERP.PIC 29 < 40> 02-Jan-77 GIRL0 .PIC 37 < 40> 02-Jan-77 GIRL1 .PIC 19 < 40> 02-Jan-77 GIRL2 .PIC 21 < 40> 02-Jan-77 LOVE .PIC 5 < 40> 02-Jan-77 MONA .PIC 63 < 40> 02-Jan-77 PINUP .PIC 34 < 40> 02-Jan-77 PLANE .PIC 9 < 40> 02-Jan-77 PUSCAT.PIC 10 < 40> 02-Jan-77 SNOOPY.PIC 5 < 40> 02-Jan-77 SPOOK .PIC 11 < 40> 02-Jan-77 TWEETY.PIC 17 < 40> 02-Jan-77 BATNUM.BAS 5 < 40> 02-Jan-77 HAMURS.BAS 5 < 40> 02-Jan-77 HUN .BAS 10 < 40> 02-Jan-77 HURKLE.BAS 3 < 40> 02-Jan-77 MADLIP.BAS 11 < 40> 02-Jan-77 MARKET.BAS 16 < 40> 02-Jan-77 MAZE .BAS 4 < 40> 02-Jan-77 ADVNT2.DOC 5 < 40> 02-Jan-77 ADVENT.FOR 7 < 40> 02-Jan-77 LUNAR2.BAS 7 < 40> 02-Jan-77 CUBE .BAS 9 < 40> 01-Jan-77 PATHWY.BAS 14 < 40> 01-Jan-77 ANIMAL.BAS 4 < 40> 01-Jan-77 ADVENT.TXT 112 < 60> 01-Jan-77 ADVENT.DAZ 113 < 40> 17-Dec-77 ADVENT.CPY 5 < 40> 17-Dec-77 WUMPUS.BAS 13 < 40> 05-Jan-78 ADVENT.DAT 116 < 40> 14-Mar-80 ADVNTR.BAC 59C <232> 15-Mar-78 ADVENT.BAC 47C <232> 17-Mar-78 DUNGEO.SAV 215 <104> 21-Jun-99 DTEXT .DAT 441 < 40> 21-Jun-98 DINDX .DAT 97 < 40> 21-Jun-98 Total of 2942 blocks in 152 files in DK2:[1,5] Ashley Carder wacarder at usit.net http://www.woffordwitch.com

20 years, 7 months

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Wofford Witch usage

by wacarder＠earthlink.net

Here are the LOGICAL names for the various public directories on the WITCH: GAME: = DK2:& = GAMES SOC: = DK2:$ = SOCIOLOGY MISC: = DK2:! = MISCELLANEOUS CS: = DK2:% = COMPUTER SCIENCE STAT: = DK3:$ = STATISTICS ECO: = DK3:! = ECONOMICS MATH: = DK3:% = MATH SCI: = DK3:& = SCIENCE I also thought that I had a logical LU: for Local Utilities, but I must have missed that. LU: should be mapped to DK2:(1,13). I have just added LU: as a LOGICAL and it will be available until the system goes down or until I make it permanent. Ashley Carder wacarder at usit.net http://www.woffordwitch.com

20 years, 7 months

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Wofford Witch usage

by wacarder＠earthlink.net

I notice quite a bit of activity lately on my online Wofford Witch system. If anyone has any questions about how to get around on the system, feel free to email me or to leave a message on the Wofford Witch web site. I have quite a few 1970s vintage games loaded on the system. If you log in and would like to see what games are available, you can type: DIR GAME: to get a directory listing. If any of you are serious about learning how to use the system and would like your own account instead of my guest (40,1) account, send me an email or post a message on my message board. Basic information on how to use the system can be found on the web site under Witch Documents in the Witch User Guide. This guide actually was for the original Witch back in the 1970s, but much of it applies to the Witch that I operate online via my web site. Thanks and enjoy! Ashley Carder wacarder at usit.net http://www.woffordwitch.com

20 years, 7 months

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making room... cleaning out stuff

by tomj＠wps.com

Hey, long time no C... about 6 months. So unbelievably swamped with work I just had to drop time-sucking side shows I mean side projects... :-) Part of recovery from 2005 is making room in my smaller lab for the future, so cherished but in-the-way items must go. * I'm reducing my Data General Nova/4 to one rack. 'Must go' are a D.G. 6xxx vacuum column tape drive (or two) in good working order; the 4300 I/O subsystem with SAM and software; and depending on Bruce Ray's choice on first refusal, my Dasher LP2 in perfect working order, with a case and a half of sealed new factory ribbons and one case of greenbar. Centronics interface (plug onto a peecee!). Not easy to ship the latter. All in excellent shape with complete paper documentation and software. Would trade it all for one compatible reel and arm type tape drive that'd do 1600 bpi (would then free up the 2nd vaccuum column drive too). The items below are on eBay now: * bunch of S100 cards, all cheap and with manuals. * DSI paper & mylar punch and reader (broken hinge on reader but otherwise 100% fine). * HP 1650b logic analyzer with 5 complete probe sets. Works perfectly, tube somewhat dim. No operating manual, have maint. manual. ian * Old Shugart 801, w/front panel UNIT and WRITE PROTECT switches. * Kaypro II, very clean, in factory nylon carrying case. * Cardmatic 123a, with bunch of cards, non-working (bad tube and linecord for starters) but very clean * Micromation 10-slot S100 buss & card cage.

20 years, 7 months

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cleaning keyboards in the dishwasher

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Jan 9 2006, 12:33, C Fernandez wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Do you think manufacturers would put sand, one of the few common > > substances that will scour glass, into a substance used for cleaning > > glassware? > > What is it that etches glass in a dishwasher? The repeated action of hot and mildly alkaline water containing detergent, particularly if it's hard water. > I don't have any problems with corrosion when cleaning metal with > dishsoap. However, if I use dishwasher soap in a dishwasher on metal, > I'll get corrosion every time. I'm stripping oil off both ways. Most likely that's down to electrolytic action between slightly different metals, particularly where utensils are touching each other. It's commonly seen with mixtures of "stainless" steel. It's not because of the type of detergent. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 7 months

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cleaning keyboards in the dishwasher

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Jan 9 2006, 12:32, der Mouse wrote: > Sand, no, but silicon dioxide, quite possibly. (Not all silicon > dioxide is sand.) In sufficiently fine particles, it won't hurt > anything - consider that polishing agents are basically just abrasives > on a very fine scale. Different sort of polishing, though. You're thinking of things like jeweller's rouge, metal polish, etc. The small amount of SiO2 that could be included in a normal dose of dishwasher powder would be pretty pointless, I'm sure. > > Detergent, on the other hand, does not react with oils, it works like > > soap to mix with free oily substances and water. > > I've heard that that's not actually true, that detergents actually > cleave fats and oils, digesting them, if you will - that that's the > difference between detergents and soaps, in fact. But that was afrom a > relatively non-authoritative source; anyone here actually know the > chemistry of detergents and how they differ from soaps? I was oversimplifiying, I admit; there is a difference, yes. It's not an area I could claim to be a real expert on, though. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 8 months

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What do I call my PDP-11?

by James＠jdfogg.com

> Should I refer to my system (shorthand) as an "LSI-11", an > "11-03", or something else (besides "that pile of junk parts :) ? George. "I will love him and pet him and call him George" - from some Warner Bros. cartoon.

20 years, 8 months

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shipping for monitors

by legalize＠xmission.com

OK, I have had terminals shipped to me in the past and they were fine, but I experienced a bit of damage when having a Heath Z-19 terminal shipped to me recently. Fortunately it can be repaired, but I think its just that I came out somewhat lucky (even more lucky would for it to not have been damaged at all). If you were to ship a terminal/monitor, what would be your approach? In the case of the Z-19, I think the root cause is that only 1 of the 4 mounting screws for the tube in the case had a support bracket. This is the only mounting post that didn't shear from the rest of the enclosure. The other 3 posts sheared off at their base to the enclosure. Some superglue should be able to reattach the posts to the enclosure so that the whole thing will be "like new". So this might be something specific to this enclosure design. However, I'm currently looking at a Tektronix 4115 that's in Illinois and I'm in Utah. This is an item that would be "key" for my graphics collection (and I've not seen one offered with any great frequency; a local supplier has them but he charges $1200 minimum for these units as costly replacements for mission critical systems). However, I'm really leary of shipping it that far after my experience with the Z-19. Comments? -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ: <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/> Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty <http://pilgrimage.scene.org>

20 years, 8 months

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Basic Language Star Trek Program

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Wayne Talbot" <awt at io.com> > ---snip--- >> >> >The basic program was in the People's Computer Company Magazine in the >late 70's. >You could type it in and run it in Tiny Basic. It took up about 2k memory. >I ran it using PaloAlto Tiny Basic (which was only 2k itself). >I will see if I can find my copy of the magazine if you are willing to >type it in. >In the meantime, if anyone has an electronic version, let everybody know. > Hi I have the PATB version of *trek. It is in Tiny Basic syntax so a lot of the commands are abreviated ( you know, things like G. for goto and such ). I also have a document file for it with instructions. One can figure it out without the instructions though. Anyone want it, send me you email address and I'll send a copy to you. Dwight

20 years, 8 months

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TI-980

by CPUMECH＠aol.com

Dataterm used to work on the silent 700's, 725,735,745,703,707's.I think that's about all of the terminals. They still do 810,825,880"s dot matrix.

20 years, 8 months

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TDL ZApple monitor

by rcini＠optonline.net

All: Does anyone have a copy of the Technical Design Labs "ZApple" monitor program for the TDL ZPU Z80-based CPU card in electronic form? I have the printed source code but I thought I'd ask before scanning/OCRing. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: <http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/> http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/

20 years, 8 months

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Honeywell DPS-6 and other stuff

by Richard.Gammage＠psu.uk.com

Hello Do you have any technical information on theses devices? Regards Richard

20 years, 8 months

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TI-74 manual

by b.taylor71＠ntlworld.com

Hello, Were you successful in obtaining a copy of the TI-74 User Manual in .PDF? I have recently purchased a ti-74 that has only the Programming manual and would dearly love to have a copy if at all possible. Thank You, Yours sincerely, Brian Taylor

20 years, 8 months

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Speaking of 6502s, was Re: 70's micros still available -

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Holger Veit <holger.veit at ais.fraunhofer.de> wrote: These times are gone - assembler is irrelevant for larger projects, and controller have become large enough to allow wasting space and tolerate inefficient code. Some controllers, including the rather lousy 8051 series, still persist, but mainly because "system designers" have used and understood them for 20 years now and it is too expensive to train them another horse. Holger -------------------------------- I have to quibble a bit about this. "System Designers" have to design to cost goals, as well as schedules. Most of them that I have worked with would love to change and have the challenge of a new processor. Training is not a factor. It's the pointy hair managers that want the cheapest processor they can get. And using an old war horse means not having to buy new development tools, SDKs, etc. Plus there is a huge pool of existing applications and coding to draw on. Moving to a new processor can add 18 months extra on a typical program. That's a price few companies can afford. And, of course, the leverage of buying bigger quantities of the old device can lead to sizeable cost reductions. So old core processors tend become embedded (pun intended) within companies. It takes a significant new bauble to break through. The last major change I saw in embedded processors was the ARM chip sets. They were slow to get accepted but now are everywhere. Probably another 10-15 years of life there. And of course the PIC devices are so cheap that they HAD to be utilized. I don't see anything out there now that would be so superior as to be worth the cost of change. Billy

20 years, 8 months

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New 11/24, what to do first? More info.

by charlesmorris＠direcway.com

>Contacts or loosen screws can fly through the BA-box in case of your 11/24 > during transport and can provoke short circuits while powering up. >Always inspect your machine carefully, watch out for loosen parts and check >the configuration of your system BEFORE aplying power to it. Don't worry, Pierre, I did all that as soon as I got it home, well before plugging it in. But thanks for the reminder. I have now inventoried the cards and have the following: 1 M7133 KDF11-UA 11/24 CPU with line clock and 2 SLU 1 M7134 KT-24 Unibus map, extension to 22 bits 1 M8743 (ECC RAM, either 512 Kb or 1 Mbyte) 2 M8722 (ECC Memory either 128 Kb or 256 Kb each) 1 M8188 FPF11 floating point processor 1 M7762 RL11 disk controller RL01/02 1 M7258 LP11 printer controller 1 DSD A2130-6 <---------- (what is this? Floppy controller?) 4 M7819 DZ11-A eight RS232 ports each 1 M920 Unibus connector 1 M7297 RH11 MASSBUS Parity Control 1 M7296 RH11 MASSBUS Control & Status Registers 1 M7295 RH11A MASSBUS Bus Controller 1 M7294 RH11 MASSBUS Data Buffer and Control 3 M5904 RH11 MASSBUS Control Transceivers 1 M9300 Unibus terminator 1 M9312 Bootstrap Terminator According to the PDP11 Bus Handbook the Massbus is for transferring blocks of data at high speed (between mass storage devices like disks or tapes?) When I flip the BOOT switch the front panel RUN light comes on briefly and goes out again. Similar behavior to the 11/23+ when it enters ODT mode. There is a green LED on each MOS memory board which is lit, and a row of three (status?) LED's on the CPU, the rearmost staying lit and the other two dark. Time to RTFM I guess :) but I'll bet I can hook up a terminal to the SLU on the CPU board and have it talk to me! I wonder, since there is an RL controller card, -Charles

20 years, 8 months

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Basic Language Star Trek Program

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Jan 7 2006, 16:07, Wayne Talbot wrote: > The basic program was in the People's Computer Company Magazine in the > late 70's. > You could type it in and run it in Tiny Basic. It took up about 2k memory. > I ran it using PaloAlto Tiny Basic (which was only 2k itself). Actually the tiny versions for PATB are about 6K. The first, by Dr. Li Chen Wang, who wrote PATB itself, was published in the Peoples Computer Company journal in the summer of 1976; it's an adaptation of Lynn Cochran's version for the Altair 8800. That, and an slightly smaller version which Bruce Sherry adapted from the PCC listing, are both on my webpage, along with lots of other versions. http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/startrek/ -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 8 months

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New 11/24, what to do first? More info (cont'd)

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Jan 7 2006, 14:34, Charles wrote: > What I was wondering (when I mistakenly hit Send) was: > > ...since it has an RL controller card if I hooked up my RL02 with > the XXDP pack, can it be run on this 11/24 system too? Yes, the RL11, RLV11, and RLV12 will all handle both RL01 and RL02 drives. XXDP won't care whether you boot it on a QBus or a Unibus system, though all but the oldest versions can tell the difference. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 8 months

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Need SCO UNIX V/386 disk

by doc＠mdrconsult.com

I tried to install SCO UNIX System V/386 3.2.0 tomight, and found that my N3 install diskette is damaged. This is on 96dshd media. If anybody has one they could image I'd be most grateful. Doc

20 years, 8 months

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New 11/24, what to do first?

by James＠jdfogg.com

> Now that my 11-23+ ("George" :) seems to be happy, it's time > to start playing with the other new acquisition, an 11/24. > Maybe that one will be "Elvis". The Elvis joke is a Sun Microsystems thing. When pinging under Solaris the reply is formatted to say <host> is alive. Therefore, it will say "elvis is alive".

20 years, 8 months

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Basic Language Star Trek Program

by awt＠io.com

>Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 13:47:09 -0700 >From: Richard <legalize at xmission.com> >Subject: Re: basic language startrek program >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Message-ID: <E1EuyUP-0003g0-00 at xmission.xmission.com> > > >In article <43BED60D.3010607 at PACBELL.NET>, > BOB LAAG <RLAAG at pacbell.net> writes: > > > >>Looking for info or the origin of a paper tape program in basic that >>plays a startrek game with quadrants, stars, klingons, etc... I got it >>back in the 70's from some military guys and it ran on my old computer >>mainframe stuff... Just wondering if anyone recognizes this or wants >>the file??? >> >> > >This sounds very much like the star trek game that was on the HP3000 >I used at the University of Delaware circa 1978/1979. > >Did it print out your quadrant map with a little ASCII graphic? > > The basic program was in the People's Computer Company Magazine in the late 70's. You could type it in and run it in Tiny Basic. It took up about 2k memory. I ran it using PaloAlto Tiny Basic (which was only 2k itself). I will see if I can find my copy of the magazine if you are willing to type it in. In the meantime, if anyone has an electronic version, let everybody know.

20 years, 8 months

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Paging Peter Pachla

by stimpy.u.idiot＠gmail.com

Peter, Can you please contact me off list regarding your DEC kit. I suspect my direct mails may be failing to reach you. Thanks, Pete -- Pete Edwards "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future" - Niels Bohr

20 years, 8 months

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KDF11-YA, where can I find switch settings?

by charlesmorris＠direcway.com

Unfortunately the 11/24 switch settings (in the bitsavers copy of the PDP 11/24 System Technical Manual) don't match the layout on my M7133 CPU. They are for the KDF11-UA (revisions A-D) and upon closer inspection mine is a KDF11-YA ( which is the last Rev. E). My board has three DIPswitch packs, not two, and they are not set to anything that the manual says should give the 9600 baud string, which is what my scope sees coming out of the console port. Does anyone have the correct switch settings? thanks Charles

20 years, 8 months

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New 11/24, what to do first? More info.

by henk.gooijen＠oce.com

Oops, correction. The MASSBUS stuff is under "peripherals -> disk -> RM03". - Henk. This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message. Thank you for your cooperation.

20 years, 8 months

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New 11/24, what to do first? More info.

by henk.gooijen＠oce.com

Hit the Send button too fast. That is a nice complete machine you have, Charles. I remember paying just UK ?300 for only that RH11. Start looking for a MASSBUS tape drive, or disk drive, ** if you have plenty room and power **. The MASSBUS stuff is not for the weak persons. All my MASSBUS stuff is heavy, both in weight and in power consumption! MASSBUS cables are approx. 30 - 40 mm thick ... I have some MASSBUS stuff in the 11/70 page on my site. As said, "I know notting" about the 11/24. - Henk, PA8PDP. ________________________________ Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org namens Charles Verzonden: za 07-01-2006 21:30 Aan: cctalk at classiccmp.org Onderwerp: New 11/24, what to do first? More info. >Contacts or loosen screws can fly through the BA-box in case of your 11/24 > during transport and can provoke short circuits while powering up. >Always inspect your machine carefully, watch out for loosen parts and check >the configuration of your system BEFORE aplying power to it. Don't worry, Pierre, I did all that as soon as I got it home, well before plugging it in. But thanks for the reminder. I have now inventoried the cards and have the following: 1 M7133 KDF11-UA 11/24 CPU with line clock and 2 SLU 1 M7134 KT-24 Unibus map, extension to 22 bits 1 M8743 (ECC RAM, either 512 Kb or 1 Mbyte) 2 M8722 (ECC Memory either 128 Kb or 256 Kb each) 1 M8188 FPF11 floating point processor 1 M7762 RL11 disk controller RL01/02 1 M7258 LP11 printer controller 1 DSD A2130-6 <---------- (what is this? Floppy controller?) 4 M7819 DZ11-A eight RS232 ports each 1 M920 Unibus connector 1 M7297 RH11 MASSBUS Parity Control 1 M7296 RH11 MASSBUS Control & Status Registers 1 M7295 RH11A MASSBUS Bus Controller 1 M7294 RH11 MASSBUS Data Buffer and Control 3 M5904 RH11 MASSBUS Control Transceivers 1 M9300 Unibus terminator 1 M9312 Bootstrap Terminator According to the PDP11 Bus Handbook the Massbus is for transferring blocks of data at high speed (between mass storage devices like disks or tapes?) When I flip the BOOT switch the front panel RUN light comes on briefly and goes out again. Similar behavior to the 11/23+ when it enters ODT mode. There is a green LED on each MOS memory board which is lit, and a row of three (status?) LED's on the CPU, the rearmost staying lit and the other two dark. Time to RTFM I guess :) but I'll bet I can hook up a terminal to the SLU on the CPU board and have it talk to me! I wonder, since there is an RL controller card, -Charles This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message. Thank you for your cooperation.

20 years, 8 months

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New 11/24, what to do first? More info (cont'd)

by henk.gooijen＠oce.com

Yes, you can Charles. The RL11 controller is for the RL01 and the RL02, and the RL11 can be installed in any UNIBUS machine. (Ok, you must have a hex slot available). Look if you have XXDP for the 11/24 on your pack. As the CPU has 2 ports, I guess that one will be configured for the console (guessing, because I do not have a /24. Still missing that one in my UNIBUS-based collection). BTW, my RL02's (both) happily boot RT11, after I swapped the RL11 from the attick! I can even boot while the RL01 and both RL02's are in the chain, but I knew that you can mix these types of drives. However, the RL01 has a READY lamp that is always on, it does not interfere with the other drives ... I will be looking at some repair work in a few weeks or so. First, I want to get my RK07's also operational on the 11/34, and even before that, I will make a few copies of my dearly treasured RT11 and XXDP RL02 packs !! :-) - Henk, PA8PDP. ________________________________ Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org namens Charles Verzonden: za 07-01-2006 21:34 Aan: cctalk at classiccmp.org Onderwerp: New 11/24, what to do first? More info (cont'd) What I was wondering (when I mistakenly hit Send) was: ...since it has an RL controller card if I hooked up my RL02 with the XXDP pack, can it be run on this 11/24 system too? thanks Charles This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message. Thank you for your cooperation.

20 years, 8 months

1
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AMD bit-slice machines

by legalize＠xmission.com

Besides the Lilith Modula-2 workstation, what other computers were made from the AMD 29xx bit-slice architecture? -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ: <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/> Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty <http://pilgrimage.scene.org>

20 years, 8 months

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New 11/24, what to do first? More info (cont'd)

by charlesmorris＠direcway.com

What I was wondering (when I mistakenly hit Send) was: ...since it has an RL controller card if I hooked up my RL02 with the XXDP pack, can it be run on this 11/24 system too? thanks Charles

20 years, 8 months

1
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New 11/24, what to do first?

by cheri-post＠web.de

"General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> schrieb am 07.01.06 18:37:57: > > Now that my 11-23+ ("George" :) seems to be happy, it's time to > start playing with the other new acquisition, an 11/24. Maybe that > one will be "Elvis". > > It's got quite a lot of cards inside, but I haven't inventoried > them yet (this afternoon's task). Obviously I need to find out > exactly what it's populated with, and look for a user's guide and > technical manual on bitsavers. > > Keeping in mind that I know nothing about this machine yet, what > should I do as a "quick start"? I have powered it up and the fans > and power-ok lights come on, so that's a good beginning. > Charles, please try to avoid powering up machines you got if you don't know their (working) condition. Contacts or loosen screws can fly through the BA-box in case of your 11/24 during transport and can provoke short circuits while powering up. Always inspect your machine carefully, watch out for loosen parts and check the configuration of your system BEFORE aplying power to it. Otherwise, parts can be damaged even without your knowledge. Parts, you'll have difficulties to find replacements for later on. Regards, Pierre __________________________________________________________________________ Erweitern Sie FreeMail zu einem noch leistungsstarkeren E-Mail-Postfach! Mehr Infos unter http://freemail.web.de/home/landingpad/?mc=021131

20 years, 8 months

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New 11/24, what to do first?

by charlesmorris＠direcway.com

Now that my 11-23+ ("George" :) seems to be happy, it's time to start playing with the other new acquisition, an 11/24. Maybe that one will be "Elvis". It's got quite a lot of cards inside, but I haven't inventoried them yet (this afternoon's task). Obviously I need to find out exactly what it's populated with, and look for a user's guide and technical manual on bitsavers. Keeping in mind that I know nothing about this machine yet, what should I do as a "quick start"? I have powered it up and the fans and power-ok lights come on, so that's a good beginning. There are no disk drives and all the ribbon cables were cut by a previous rescuer :( Does it have a console ODT mode so I'll at least know it's alive or dead? Where would the console port be? thanks Charles

20 years, 8 months

1
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Bell Technologies "blit" available

by ddl-cctech＠danlan.com

Recall that this was a big ECL monochrome display (1600x1200?) with an ISA controller card that uses that Intel graphics coprocessor whose number I can't remember. I have one system (including the unix and drivers that went with it) essentially unused in the original box. Given the original box, shipping might be possible, but it could be expensive. As usual, price is $0. Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com

20 years, 8 months

2
1
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Paper-tape driven PROM programmer

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

This is definitely a first. More specifically, it's the first time I've ever seen any PROM programmer unit that has paper tape I/O. Pop over to Greed-bay, and check item #7579262264. Amazing... I wonder if the thing does 1702's? Keep the peace(es). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?"

20 years, 8 months

1
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Shipping a Tek 4115

by innfoclassics＠gmail.com

I have shipped Tek 4115s. Is it a two piece upright 4115 or the two piece 4115B? In both cases they are aluminum and not plastic, and probably have to go freight. The Upright I would wrap in large bubblewrap to protect the connectors, wrap the front and back of the monitor and wrap and box the keyboard and cables. Retract the keyboard table. I would remove the front plate covering the card cage and put pink anti stat large bubble over the cards and then put the front plate back on to hold the cards in place. I would tape or strap a band around the bottom where the card cage is. to hold it together. Put it on a normal pallet with cardboard underneath so the wheels won't roll. Or lay it on its back. Put the monitor flat on the pallet behind the stand if upright or beside if you lay the stand down.. If upright rest it on a couple of pieces of wood you can take all the pressure off the wheels which are actually quite fragile. Then protect it with double layer cardboard cut to fit the CPU/stand and and also the monitor (bubble in-between). Then make a double layer cardboard box around it, put corner protectors on the top and strap it tightly to the pallet with at least two or three bands. Do not leave the monitor on the stand. Even if it is shrink wrapped on it will move as it has lots of mass and becomes top heavy. They must be separated. If it is the two piece (my favorite) you need a different pallet as the pieces go side by side. I don't think I would put the tube face down as the mounts are aluminum and much stronger. I would also not box and ship by UPS, not sure you can because of size and weight. Again protect the cards with internal pink anti stat bubble and put the case back together. More bubble to protect the face of the tube and the connectors on both and cover with heavy cardboard. Wrap, with large bubble, the keyboard separately and box with the interconnect cables underneath. The front of the CPU box will pop out to display the 8 inch drives. Protect the front with bubble and cardboard and run a strap around the box to hold it together so it won't pop open. Place the CPU box on the pallet. Put cardboard under the wheels so it won't roll when you don't want it to. Place the Monitor on the pallet with the keyboard and cable box in-between. Wrap all in more double weight cardboard, put on corner protectors and strap to the pallet with two parallel straps. You can also use a short gaylord, a pallet size cardboard box usually used to hold bulk products. Protect each of the three pieces in it as mentioned above. Lock them in the gaylord with hard foam cut to fit so they won't move. Strap the box to the pallet. If you put an upright 4115 in a Gaylord you can lay the Card cage stand flat on its back. You should have already protected the connectors with bubble and heavy cardboard before you lay it down. You want to strap it tightly with the force pulling the units down. It should survive fine. In my storage container I have extra cards to ugrade one to a 4128 I think. Who is asking the big bucks? Reply privately, please, if you want to tell me. Or if you have specific questions. -- Paxton Hoag Astoria, OR USA

20 years, 8 months

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Sun 3/260 available

by James＠jdfogg.com

> with desk side cabinet, cpu, one memory board, SCSI, and QIC > tape drive (the nicer 24/11 one I think). Located in > Gloucester, MA, USA. Shipping is almost certainly prohibitive. > > Dan Lanciani > ddl at danlan.*com I'd like to give this a good home. I'm local and can pick up.

20 years, 8 months

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Charles River Data Systems - Universe 68/05

by david_comley＠yahoo.com

I posted an inquiry about this back in 2005 but I thought I would try this again with the list. Charles River Data Systems - Universe 68/05 - I acquired one of these last year with no information or software. Does anyone have any details on this machine ? I understand these were quite common at one time back in the 80's. It has an 8" floppy drive on the front and a SASI interface on the back, amongst other things. Any and all information appreciated, especially a list of status codes for the diagnostic panel or any bootable 8" media. Thanks, Dave david_comley at yahoo.com __________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL ? Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com

20 years, 8 months

1
0
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ZX80 - was: SN76477N

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

>Today I was looking for something (A Cipher 525 tape drive) that I bought >NOS years ago and left in its original box. I thought I'd found it, opened >the box and discovered a Sinclair ZX80 with the "A Course in BASIC >Programming" book. The problem is that I don't remember getting this >thing--I'm sure I didn't buy it. Maybe Dave McGlone tossed it in when we >were swapping junk years ago. (P.S. I did find the Cipher and discovered >that I bought two of them). > >I don't know if it works, since I don't know the polarity of the 9vdc >adapter. Either way, is this just common trash or is this actually worth >something?. My wife suggested that I throw it out; she figures that if I >didn't even know that I had it after all these years, that I certainly >don't need it now. The ZX80 is the immediate predecessor of the ZX81/Timex-1000, which are VERY common. The ZX80 isn't quite so common, but I think there should be lots around - although I've not stumbled on another one lately. I'm pretty sure the adapter is the same as the ZX81/T1000 - and if you take a look inside it's just a series linear regulator (7805) and it should be pretty easy to figure out the polarity - if you want, I can dig mine out and measure it. Don't toss it - Mines in sad shape (previous owner drilled holes to mount switches, broke the corner off the cabinet and lost the original integer ROM after upgrading to the FP rom) - I've been keeping a lookout for a better specimen, however as noted above I haven't run across one yet. I'd be happy to give it a better home than the dustbin. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

20 years, 8 months

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More on test equioment.

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

A couple of things I forgot to put in my other message. Firslty, another instrument that you _need_ is a bench PSU. Adjustable voltage (at least up to 12V, preferably twice that), and at least 5A, with current limiting. You will find this invaluable for powering up logic boards outside the main machine, temporarily substuting for battery packs, testing motors, solenoids, etc. running motors when doing mechancial alignments, and so on. One somewhat unconventional use I put mine to recently was to 'lock' a stepper motor. By connecting one winding of the motor to the PSU and turning up the voltage until a moderate current flowed, I could lock the motor spindle and thus the pulley on said spindle. Running the steel cable that went onto that pulley and which operated the pen carriage in a ploter was a lot easier with the motor locked. Secondly, 'good' does not mean 'lots of features'. Many such features are little more than gimmicks to be mentioned in the advertising. For example, many digital multimeters have a transistor Hfe range. Since I have no idea what collector current is used, this is somewhat useless. If I need to test a transistor, I will use my real transistor tester (a Tek 575, OK...). You can do a quick go/no-go test on a transistor using the diode test range to make sure the junctions are still intact and not shorted, of course. [OK, there is one use for the Hfe range. Once you've used the diode test range to (a) determine the polarity) anf (b) find the base lead, connect it to the meter (Hfe range) with the base going to the right socket and the other 2 leads going to the emitter and collector sockets. Try it with the latter both ways round. The connection that appears to give the higher Hfe is likely to be the correct one. No, it's not a substitue for looking the thing up in a data book, but if you have a house-coded part it can be useful...] -tony

20 years, 8 months

1
0
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Homebuilt TTL and transistor CPUs

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

I was not intending to give an exhaustive definition of "reverse engineering", simply to illustrate that there is a significant difference between it and copying/"piracy"

20 years, 8 months

1
0
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"Market" for old macs?

by trixter＠oldskool.org

At work I have an SE30, LC, IIci, and a 603 variety mac just... lying around. Are these things as common as dirt, or should I snag them? I ask because I'm reminded of the "x86 dead zone" -- a zone where a machine isn't old enough to be compatible with older software, but isn't new enough to be useful (a Pentium 133 falls into this category -- can't run old stuff, can't run new stuff, so toss it in the garbage). -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/

20 years, 8 months

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Sun 3/260 available

by ddl-cctech＠danlan.com

with desk side cabinet, cpu, one memory board, SCSI, and QIC tape drive (the nicer 24/11 one I think). Located in Gloucester, MA, USA. Shipping is almost certainly prohibitive. Dan Lanciani ddl at danlan.*com

20 years, 8 months

1
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basic language startrek program

by henk.gooijen＠oce.com

check out http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/startrek/ and ask Pete. He might be interested :-) BTW, can you tell more about the mainframe (type, manufacturer, where, etc.)? - Henk, PA8PDP. ________________________________ Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org namens BOB LAAG Verzonden: vr 06-01-2006 21:41 Aan: CCTECH Onderwerp: basic language startrek program Looking for info or the origin of a paper tape program in basic that plays a startrek game with quadrants, stars, klingons, etc... I got it back in the 70's from some military guys and it ran on my old computer mainframe stuff... Just wondering if anyone recognizes this or wants the file??? This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message. Thank you for your cooperation.

20 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

cleaning keyboards in the dishwasher

by James＠jdfogg.com

---- There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of woodelf > Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 2:00 PM > To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: cleaning keyboards in the dishwasher > > James Fogg wrote: > > > > >City water has some chlorine and has a tiny risk of bleaching, > > > >All automatic dishwasher detergents have lots of chlorine and might > >bleach (great for discolored plastics), > > > > > > > I read some where that chlorine kills electrolitic caps DEAD > if it ever gets inside. *anything* getting into an electrolitic would kill it, or at least change its specifications in an unwelcomed way. I wouldn't expect there to be any more risk than with water. But there are other issues with corrosion, so chlorine is a bad thing.

20 years, 8 months

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by henk.gooijen＠oce.com

There was a fair discussion just a few months ago about this topic. If you'd ask me, remember that the old PDP-11 clock signals are below 20 MHz, so you don't need a 1 GHz sampling 'scope :-) But a decent 50-60 MHz dual-trace is not bad. For these tools, they work best if the "man using the tool" knows what he (she, if it's Allison) is doing, and knows the *limitations*, and interprets the signals or data (try to understand what (s)he sees). For logic analyzers, check out for example eBay, but make sure that it is complete with the correct wires and pods! Don't go for a LA without the pods. Useless. And buying the pods later, which is sometimes possible, is costly in the end. Just my thoughts, no intention to start a thread on this topic. Perhaps something for the ClassicComp Knowledge Base? ( http://www.classiccmp.org/kb/ <http://www.classiccmp.org/kb/> ) - Henk, PA8PDP. ________________________________ Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org namens Richard Verzonden: vr 06-01-2006 21:53 Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Onderwerp: Recommended logic analyzer/scope tools? (was: RL02 write faults,fixed it! Another cable mistake) In article <447524F844B59D48B8F7AE7F560935EE02CE2288 at OVL-EXBE01.ocevenlo.oce.net>, "Gooijen, Henk" <henk.gooijen at oce.com> writes: > Yes, working your way through the schematics, actually measuring the > signals, makes you "learn" how something works - in detail! > I know a little more about the M7859 11/34 console than I did, say > 2 months ago ... So what would y'all recommend for logic analyzer/oscilloscope type tools that are useful for vintage computing (i.e. their max bandwidth/speed can be slower than needed for current tech) that are also affordable? I know Tektronix and HP are major manufacturers in this area, but I would know what to get. *Lots* of these items go up for auction via government liquidation at the local Hill AFB, so if I know what I'm looking for I should be able to eventually get something by low-bidding. Suggestions? -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ: <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/ <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/> > Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty <http://pilgrimage.scene.org <http://pilgrimage.scene.org> > This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message. Thank you for your cooperation.

20 years, 8 months

1
0
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basic language startrek program

by henk.gooijen＠oce.com

That version (quadrant map in ASCII) was very common in all the old versions. I must even have such a versin that runs on a 6800, but I can not remember if it was written in native 6800 or BASIC, running on SWTPC 6800 BASIC. - Henk, PA8PDP. ________________________________ Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org namens Richard Verzonden: vr 06-01-2006 21:47 Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Onderwerp: Re: basic language startrek program In article <43BED60D.3010607 at PACBELL.NET>, BOB LAAG <RLAAG at pacbell.net> writes: > Looking for info or the origin of a paper tape program in basic that > plays a startrek game with quadrants, stars, klingons, etc... I got it > back in the 70's from some military guys and it ran on my old computer > mainframe stuff... Just wondering if anyone recognizes this or wants > the file??? This sounds very much like the star trek game that was on the HP3000 I used at the University of Delaware circa 1978/1979. Did it print out your quadrant map with a little ASCII graphic? -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ: <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/ <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/> > Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty <http://pilgrimage.scene.org <http://pilgrimage.scene.org> > This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message. Thank you for your cooperation.

20 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

basic language startrek program

by RLAAG＠PACBELL.NET

Looking for info or the origin of a paper tape program in basic that plays a startrek game with quadrants, stars, klingons, etc... I got it back in the 70's from some military guys and it ran on my old computer mainframe stuff... Just wondering if anyone recognizes this or wants the file???

20 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

Homebuilt TTL and transistor CPUs

by jcwren＠jcwren.com

This fellow has some interesting projects. A 6502 opcode compatible CPU implemented in latches and EEPROMs. A NAND-gate based MC14500B. And a CPU using (mostly) only transistors. Also a introduction to microprogramming article, and some other good stuff. <URL: http://people.freenet.de/dieter.02/index.htm > I don't know if anyone else mentioned this page in the past. I don't recall it, and I tend to follow the homebuilt CPU threads here. If you've seen it already, sorry about that. --jc

20 years, 8 months

15
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What do I call my PDP-11?

by charlesmorris＠direcway.com

What is the proper name for my PDP11 system about which you have read so much lately? (It's in a PDP11-03/L chassis, H9276 backplane, KDF11-BA CPU). Should I refer to my system (shorthand) as an "LSI-11", an "11-03", or something else (besides "that pile of junk parts :) ? thanks Charles

20 years, 8 months

4
3
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RL02 write faults, fixed it! Another cable mistake

by charlesmorris＠direcway.com

On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 09:10:37 -0600 (CST), you wrote: Re: my earlier finding, I think I was mistaken. The small glitches arise because the slow risetime of the RC delay (6K8, .0056 uf) is driving a 7404 that does not have a Schmitt trigger input. Guess DEC figured it didn't matter since the first one would set the write error latch anyway. Playing with terminating resistors made little difference so I removed them. Now it turns out that the write data is indeed not getting through to the R/W board (at least today, I'm sure it was yesterday). Sure enough E65 pin 4 (the output of the write data line receiver) was not moving even though pins 1/2 (the differential data inputs) were showing data, and pin 5 (enable) was going high for 5-6 uS until the error latch set so there should have been that short a burst of transitions on the WRITE DATA PLS L line. A DVM showed a short to ground, or nearly so, on that line. I started disconnecting things and the short went away, but then returned. With the ribbon cable from the controller disconnected at the logic board the short did not recur despite moving all the connectors and flexing the board. You may already have guessed it - "operator error" cable problems again, %^&* it :P The problem (as I discovered previously on the RL8E controller, and should have remembered) with using IDC header connectors instead of the Bergs is that the bare ends were protruding ever so slightly beyond the connector body. And although I cut it flush with a fine pair of cutters, there was just enough to (sometimes) touch a via right under the header that had a little extra solder plating "bump"... one strip of Scotch "33" heavy electrical tape later and no more write faults. The XXDP pack continues to pass all read tests but I don't want to take a chance writing to it. The other pack did initialize, 20,000+ free blocks. After about 25 minutes of exercising a soft read error occurred, then another (1 word of a sector) at 31 minutes. I've just written the "worst case data pattern" test from ZRLMB1 diagnostic and there were one or two soft errors and an "XFER" error. Probably the next move is to make a "Field Bad Sector File" for that pack. Anyway - let this be a warning to those of you who want to make your own cables for RL drives. It looks easy since they are 40 pin headers inside the drive and from the back of the controller - but 1) the pattern is reversed and 2) be very careful to keep the bare cable end slightly recessed into the connector body. However, I now know much more about RL drives than I care to, and can fix the logic if it ever really does fail :) -Charles

20 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

cleaning keyboards in the dishwasher

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Richard" <legalize at xmission.com> > >Have any of you really done this? > >Did you take the enclosure off? > Hi This truly depends on the type of keyboard. The one I'm typing on right now would be destroyed by doing such without complete disassembly. Dwight

20 years, 8 months

1
0
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cleaning keyboards in the dishwasher

by legalize＠xmission.com

Have any of you really done this? Did you take the enclosure off? -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ: <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/> Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty <http://pilgrimage.scene.org>

20 years, 8 months

10
9
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cleaning keyboards in the dishwasher

by James＠jdfogg.com

> > I have washed motherboards and cards (most are 386s or 486s) for > > numerous times. No heated dry though. Just use a fan to > blow air at it > > overnight. In printed circuit board production everything gets "dishwashed" after wave soldering to remove flux, masks and junk. It is then baked in an air oven. It's been 20 years since I've been around PC board production, but as I recall it was a very hot water/acid/detergent wash. So, it's nothing that your components haven't seen before. Some things to remember - The cleaner the water the better so maybe put a charcoal filter on the washer line, City water has some chlorine and has a tiny risk of bleaching, All automatic dishwasher detergents have lots of chlorine and might bleach (great for discolored plastics), Powdered automatic dish detergent has silicone dioxide (sand) and will scour your boards, Because of the above 2 items you might want to use "hand" dishwashing detergent, but not much since it will foam, Since isopropanol will aggressively bond with water molecules I like to chase the water off with an isopropanol rinse (pure, if you can get it, or 90% sold in drug stores), Follow with some kind of gentle bake (direct sun on a warm day, hair dryer, oven, fans). The isopropanol rinse is good for drying since alcohols evaporate easily. Iso is used by "re-work" technicians to remove flux on boards that are touched up by hand, so iso is generally safe, but might remove ink printing on labels and might attack the label glue.

20 years, 8 months

5
4
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RL02 write faults, found it, now how to fix it?

by henk.gooijen＠oce.com

Thanks for sharing your day in the shack with us, Charles. I am glad to read that I am not the only one who can cut a wire without any intention of wanting to do that :-) Due to other obligations, I have not been able to swap the RL11 controller ... Ahh well, it's almost weekend! - Henk, PA8PDP. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Charles > Sent: vrijdag 6 januari 2006 1:25 > To: cctech at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: RL02 write faults, found it, now how to fix it? > > I spent an interesting day in the shack today. After blowing > off the dust, I found that my old 7D01 logic analyzer won't > trigger on the word recognizer but Ch. 0 would trigger, so I > started hooking it up to the RL02 logic board and R/W boards > using the drive error as a post-data trigger and looking > backwards from there. > > Eventually I learned that Write Gate and Write Data are being > correctly asserted, and the data bursts continue for 500+ uS (one > sector) beginning a couple of uS after the Sector pulse. But > approximately 4 to 6 uS after the Write Gate opens, and > before the data could even begin (10+ uS), the DL5 DRIVE ERR > signal asserts! > I worked around the loop from there and found that the > *first* thing to go wrong was the Write Data Error Latch > ('LS279, E6 on logic board) which was setting its output pin > 13 (DL5 WR DATA ERR H). This fatal error signal then latches > DL5 DRIVE ERR H via the other "glue" logic and prevents any > further action. > > But the R/W board that generates Write Data Error Pulse was > *not* telling the latch to set! There is a 6K8 resistor to +5 and a > 0.0056 uf cap to ground as a delay (set only) in the error > circuit (a time constant of 38 uS) so to reach a logic 1 > (2.0v) would take considerably longer than 6 uS anyway. > > Further exploration with the logic analyzer on "high" speed (20 > ns/tick) shows that on the 'LS279 pin 15 (the latch input, > WRITE DATA ERROR PLS L) there is a small (~180-200 ns) low > pulse with a 20 ns glitch in the middle. It is NOT evident to > the logic analyzer when examining the signal's source on the > R/W board, (Write Data Error Detector E3, 7404 pin 8). But > it's enough to set the WDE latch all right! > > Right about then, sparks started flying from the brush area > of the spindle motor and the drive faulted on its own and spun down. > Holy crap! =:^O > > I pulled the circuit breaker fast and gently spun the motor > and could hear scraping noises. I figured the brushes were > shot or something, so I took the two nuts off the through > bolts. Of course the end housing wouldn't come off, way too > tight a fit, and I didn't want to pull the blower motor. With > a bright light I could see a piece of something blue sticking > up, so I pulled it out with a pair of fine needlenose pliers. > It was the tip of one of my logic analyzer leads that had > sneaked into the vent holes unknown to me, and been cut off > by the armature turning! I put the nuts back on (of course I > dropped the second one inside the motor and had to fish that > out too), crossed all my fingers and flipped the breaker. It > spun right up and has been working fine since. Whew. > Never a dull moment in Murphy's Laws. > > Anyhow, there is a 330 pf deglitching cap near the input to the > 'LS279 but obviously it's not adequate. I need to put a fast > scope on the line and see what the edges actually look like. > Some resistive termination may be needed. This is on a very > short ribbon cable to J6, about 6", inside the drive, and the > chassis ground wires to each board are connected. Or maybe > the Berg connector on one end is defective in the ground > lead. More as I discover it. > > -Charles This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message. Thank you for your cooperation.

20 years, 8 months

2
1
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Homebuilt TTL and transistor CPUs

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

der Mouse wrote: >> No. With reverse engineering you *understand* the design. > I get that by reading the docs, the schematic and using the machine. With real docs (such as schematics) you don't _need_ to reverse-engineer. Reverse engineering, at least as I learned to use the term, refers to the process of deducing that kind of information >from the device. der Mouse Real documents are wonderful but rarely available. In my field (hard drives) the schematic is useless. What we really need to understand is the manufacturing process, especially for heads and media. Those are "black magic" processes that defy instant analysis. Worse, they require enormously expensive test equipment and high skill levels. Decapping an IC and stripping off the layers is a major piece of engineering. Measuring the flying height of a GMR head flying closer to the media than the wavelength of visible light can take a small team of engineers and lots of money. And then there is the problem some of you have encountered: how to reverse engineer code when it is embedded with the processor in an IC package that has no external memory access? Reverse engineering to me is: to deduce enough information to duplicate the device, including manufacturing processes. Billy

20 years, 8 months

3
2
0 0

VAXStation 8000?

by legalize＠xmission.com

Does anyone have one of these? They are a VAXstation based workstation with a fancy E&S graphics subsystem in them. They had a limited release around 1988, which was when I saw one in operation when E&S did a dog-and-pony show at the UofU. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ: <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/> Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty <http://pilgrimage.scene.org>

20 years, 8 months

8
13
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Where to buy a Selectric?

by shoppa_classiccmp＠trailing-edge.com

I'm looking to get a nice IBM Selectric typewriter - for typewriter, not computer console, use. Not too picky as to typeball etc., but if someone wants to tell me what to look for and what to avoid, I'm all ears. In the past I've used both Selectric II's and III's and can't say I prefer one over the other. I am looking to keep it for many years with only light to moderate use so reliability/parts availability is somewhat important. Anyone want to recommend a US (or Washington DC) area dealer who stands above the rest? Or should I just take my chances on E-pay? Is there a more appropriate forum for asking about typewriters? Tim.

20 years, 8 months

29
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RL02 write faults, found it, now how to fix it?

by charlesmorris＠direcway.com

I spent an interesting day in the shack today. After blowing off the dust, I found that my old 7D01 logic analyzer won't trigger on the word recognizer but Ch. 0 would trigger, so I started hooking it up to the RL02 logic board and R/W boards using the drive error as a post-data trigger and looking backwards from there. Eventually I learned that Write Gate and Write Data are being correctly asserted, and the data bursts continue for 500+ uS (one sector) beginning a couple of uS after the Sector pulse. But approximately 4 to 6 uS after the Write Gate opens, and before the data could even begin (10+ uS), the DL5 DRIVE ERR signal asserts! I worked around the loop from there and found that the *first* thing to go wrong was the Write Data Error Latch ('LS279, E6 on logic board) which was setting its output pin 13 (DL5 WR DATA ERR H). This fatal error signal then latches DL5 DRIVE ERR H via the other "glue" logic and prevents any further action. But the R/W board that generates Write Data Error Pulse was *not* telling the latch to set! There is a 6K8 resistor to +5 and a 0.0056 uf cap to ground as a delay (set only) in the error circuit (a time constant of 38 uS) so to reach a logic 1 (2.0v) would take considerably longer than 6 uS anyway. Further exploration with the logic analyzer on "high" speed (20 ns/tick) shows that on the 'LS279 pin 15 (the latch input, WRITE DATA ERROR PLS L) there is a small (~180-200 ns) low pulse with a 20 ns glitch in the middle. It is NOT evident to the logic analyzer when examining the signal's source on the R/W board, (Write Data Error Detector E3, 7404 pin 8). But it's enough to set the WDE latch all right! Right about then, sparks started flying from the brush area of the spindle motor and the drive faulted on its own and spun down. Holy crap! =:^O I pulled the circuit breaker fast and gently spun the motor and could hear scraping noises. I figured the brushes were shot or something, so I took the two nuts off the through bolts. Of course the end housing wouldn't come off, way too tight a fit, and I didn't want to pull the blower motor. With a bright light I could see a piece of something blue sticking up, so I pulled it out with a pair of fine needlenose pliers. It was the tip of one of my logic analyzer leads that had sneaked into the vent holes unknown to me, and been cut off by the armature turning! I put the nuts back on (of course I dropped the second one inside the motor and had to fish that out too), crossed all my fingers and flipped the breaker. It spun right up and has been working fine since. Whew. Never a dull moment in Murphy's Laws. Anyhow, there is a 330 pf deglitching cap near the input to the 'LS279 but obviously it's not adequate. I need to put a fast scope on the line and see what the edges actually look like. Some resistive termination may be needed. This is on a very short ribbon cable to J6, about 6", inside the drive, and the chassis ground wires to each board are connected. Or maybe the Berg connector on one end is defective in the ground lead. More as I discover it. -Charles

20 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Fischertechnik BBC Micro interface

by Arno_1983＠gmx.de

Tony Duell wrote: > About 20 years ago, there was a Fischertechnik robotics kit. This > contains the usual blocks, gears, etc, 2 small motors, 3 lamps, an > electromagnet, 8 switches and 2 pots. And no other electonic parts. > > There were various interfaces sold for this, at the time they were > very expensive and not suitable for the machines I had. So I did > the obvious thing and boilt my own... I know we have a similar unit for the Commodore C64. My father bought it since he had both Fischertechnik stuff and a C64, but I don't think we ever had the robotics kit you mention. Using the interface just to switch two or three motors on and off doesn't seem that interesting, so perhaps he also thought of it more like a general purpose interface. Even more stuff to try out some day - wish me a long life... -- Arno Kletzander Stud. Hilfskraft Informatik Sammlung Erlangen www.iser.uni-erlangen.de Telefonieren Sie schon oder sparen Sie noch? NEU: GMX Phone_Flat http://www.gmx.net/de/go/telefonie

20 years, 8 months

3
2
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Homebuilt TTL and transistor CPUs

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

> Technical -- Reverse Engineering. > Layman -- Piracy. Significant difference- in reverse engineering you copy what something does, in piracy you copy what it is.

20 years, 8 months

4
5
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Where to buy a Selectric?

by Arno_1983＠gmx.de

Hello folks, hopefully all of you enjoyed your holidays and festivities. > > One of the problems with old Selectrics is eventually the neoprene > > drive belt deteriorates and breaks. I'm no Selectric repairman, but > > a peek inside a nice wide-carriage Selectric III that I've got > > stashed away looks like replacement of said belt is a major > > operation and probably not worth the trouble. Woohoo - good news, that (<<Irony). I've got about five of those IBM typeball critters in my vicinity, all gifts from grammar school and University; I don't know if the term "Selectric" applies to those (none of them says so on the outside), but for the record, there are: Qty. Model top shell base pan Keys -------------------------------------------- 1 50 pwd. blue black black 2 82c brick red brick red grey 1 82c greenish greenish grey 1 196c brick red black black I "hope" one of the red 82s is a bit smaller than the other (and the green) one (else I wouldn't see much of a point in keeping both), but I haven't compared them side-by-side yet. I think they're all strictly electro-mechanical except for the Model 50, which has a circuit board in the base pan, a code key and some kind of lever switch to the left of the keyboard, and unfortunately at the moment a broken belt inside. In my case it's not the one from the motor to the drive shaft, but the one driving the carriage spindle from the reversing clutch. Also, how interchangeable are type balls among those machines? The blue one was the only one to come without a ball, the 196c has one with yellow top lettering and each of the others one with white, and I've got spares/other fonts of both kinds. Tony Duell wrote: > I have never seen inside a Selectric, but I've heard that to change one > of the belts you have to remove the main shaft, which is a major > operation. It certainly looks like a lot of work in mine; I also fear there might be adjustments involved but I haven't tried to obtain a service manual yet. > I was told that if you do this, slip 2 belts over the shaft and tape > one to the side of the chassis out of the way. Next time it breaks, > work that spare one onto the pulleys. That sounds like a perfectly sane approach, provided there's enough space in there so I can keep the belt out of the way. Thanks for suggesting this before I attack the problem. Yours sincerely, -- Arno Kletzander Stud. Hilfskraft Informatik Sammlung Erlangen www.iser.uni-erlangen.de 10 GB Mailbox, 100 FreeSMS/Monat http://www.gmx.net/de/go/topmail +++ GMX - die erste Adresse f?r Mail, Message, More +++

20 years, 8 months

3
2
0 0

TI-980

by TMGHOUSTON＠aol.com

Hello, I came across your name on a search for TI-980. Do you have any contacts who can do repairs for the different boards inside the TI-980? If you do, please pass it on as I've got a customer who needs repairs. Would you happen to know someone who might have a unit for sale? Thanks. E. Henry Valdez TECHNOLOGY MARKETING GROUP Houston, Texas USA (713) 666-6677

20 years, 8 months

1
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More RLV12/RL02 problems (faults on Write)

by charlesmorris＠direcway.com

On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 23:15:48 -0600 (CST), you wrote: >It sounds very much like he could have blown something on the controller the >first time when he wired it wrong, and said it got "hot". That was only referring to the transistor that drives the POK signal. It survived. I had also found that the "upside-down and backwards" hookup places two 75113 drivers in contention - but they are not fried either. >Either that or, I'd still blame the cable. I haven't known qbus cards to >just go bad like that. Unlikely given that all read tests pass and the system boots... and the Write Data and Write Gate signals are making it to the logic board in the RL02, by direct measurement. I missed the fact that the error code returned by the toggle-in program (102210) actually has WDE (15) as well as WGE (10) set. I am not sure which came first (i.e. the write data error resulted >from the Fault/head withdrawal after the write gate error, or vice versa). But the problem could also be on the drive's R/W board. There is some logic there that can cause a WDE. I'm not sure what fault happens if there is a bad steering diode or write current source. More as I investigate... I may have to fix the faulty p/s on my Tek 7403 so I can plug in the logic analyzer! That will tell me for sure which line is first. -Charles

20 years, 8 months

1
0
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Cool software find

by doc＠mdrconsult.com

I'm going through some cartons of "Someday Stuff" - things I've accumulated with the intent of using or trying, but not right now. I found a box of floppies I just barely remember buying, and then not having a clue how to install. It's old SCO stuff: UNIX System V/386 v3.2.0 N1-N3 UFA1-UFA2 B1-B8 X1-X10 Open Desktop v1.0 N1-N5 type 386GT P1-P37 Open Desktop v1.1.0 N1-5 type 386GT N1 type ku386 UF1-UF2 P1-P37 Disk P1 of the ODT v1.0 set is labeled bad, and I don't have they activation keys for it, but the SysV/386 and ODT v1.1 look good, and have serials and activation keys. Of course, there are no docs at all other than the license code sheets, so I don't know if these are complete, even. At least they're all sequential sets. :) Doc

20 years, 8 months

1
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DEC 874-A Power Conditioner

by henk.gooijen＠oce.com

I can see the problem :-) The power controller is most of the time a part of a complete printset of a machine. That is also the case with the PSUs. Anyway, check out: http://www.mainecoon.com/classiccmp/861%20controller/ (for 861) http://www.mainecoon.com/classiccmp/PDP-11-44/ (has the 877) hope that helps a little. - Henk. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Richard > Sent: donderdag 5 januari 2006 2:26 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: DEC 874-A Power Conditioner > > > In article <10601050053.ZM61 at mindy.dunnington.plus.com>, > Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com> writes: > > > On my 861Bs there are 8 mains outlets on the left, 4 on the > right, and > > the ON/OFF/REMOTE switch is towards the right, with one unlabelled > > power control socket to the left of it, and two more to the right. > > OK, I looked at it more carefully... its an 871, not an 861. > > It has 6 switched outlets and 2 3-conductor connectors > labelled J1 and J2. J1 has something plugged into it that > goes into the cabinet somewhere. Switching to "remote on", > and then applying power everywhere and diddling the AUX > ON/OFF switch did nothing. I'll have to trace where this > cable from J1 goes in the cabinet to find out more. > > A couple people said that the docs on this were at > bitsavers.org, but I couldn't find it. URL anyone? > -- > "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ: > <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/> > Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty > <http://pilgrimage.scene.org> This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message. Thank you for your cooperation.

20 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

hard drives

by Useddec＠aol.com

There has been some recent reference to ST225 drives. That reminded me that I had a shelf (which I need) full of drives I purchased from a maintaince company as surplus spares. Most units were tested and sealed in static bags. Any interest? Here is a partial list. Some are more than qty one. Epson HMD 720 360K full height Computer Memories 6426S Connor CP334 Seagate 212 225 225N 251 4026 412 506 Miniscribe 2012 8425 CM4510 Olviletti D5126H XM/5220/2 Shugart 712 Tandon TM252 TM262 Micropolis 1355 (non-tested, non-baged) I hope that I read all the model numbers correctly through the static bags. Thanks, Paul

20 years, 8 months

1
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Real Old School Programming (was: Re: Where to buy a Selectric?)

by Arno_1983＠gmx.de

Tony Duell wrote: > I know I have some of the BASIC coding forms for the TRS-80 model 1 > around here somwehre. (...) > I should have some coding forms for the HP9100 calculator around here > too, and maybe some for the HP67. The only ones I have are fairly specialized, they're for the Triumph- Adler Factura 100 (German electronic computing typewriter for invoices, accounting work and such). I got them from my Grandad who worked in a business machine shop and used to write programs for them according to the customer's specification, and I've already started a half-hearted attempt to recreate them as Excel spreadsheets. Yours sincerely, -- Arno Kletzander Stud. Hilfskraft Informatik Sammlung Erlangen www.iser.uni-erlangen.de Lust, ein paar Euro nebenbei zu verdienen? Ohne Kosten, ohne Risiko! Satte Provisionen f?r GMX Partner: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/partner

20 years, 8 months

1
0
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ompupro 8085/8088 switchover problem

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

I've had a lot of DIP switches go bad, usually open no matter what you set them to. Don't ignore that possibility in your troubleshooting.

20 years, 8 months

1
0
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Old Mac SW help

by rcini＠optonline.net

All: If I could prevail upon the Mac guru's kindness again, but I'm looking for working copies of Microsoft BASIC for the Macintosh version 1.0. This is the 68k version of MS-BASIC. It's a two-disk set and one disk is flaky and one is definitely bad. If someone has this and is willing to make a Stuffit archive for me, I'd appreciate it. TIA! Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: <http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/> http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/

20 years, 8 months

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Speaking of 6502s, was Re: 70's micros still available -

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 10:20:51 -0800 From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> Subject: Re: Speaking of 6502s, was Re: 70's micros still available - >>On 1/4/2006 at 8:10 AM M H Stein wrote: >>Most languages were ported to the PET (although some were for the 6809 >>in the dual-processor SPET): >But a 6809 is nothing like a 6502! Of course not; I was just pointing out that any search of 6502 software etc. for the PET will probably include 6809 stuff as well. >If anything, a 6809 is an improved 16-bit version of a 6800. No "if anything" about it; in the words of the 6809 designers (who had also been involved in development of the 6800): "We feel (the 6809) is the best machine so far made by human." (From a 3-part series starting in Byte Jan '79, detailing the philosophy and development of the 6809 - wonder if they're suggesting that there were better machines, presumably made by non-humans? Aliens? The proverbial infinite number of monkeys?) >In a way, this goes toward the idea of the 6800 having the more useful >architecture than the 6502. Arrghh... do we always have to have these discussions about which CPU/ computer/OS/language etc. etc. is better/more useful than xyz? More useful for what, when, for whom, at what cost, yadda, yadda...? And how does software being written for a 16-bit 6809 (three years newer than the 6502) say anything about the relative merits of the even older 6800? I suppose that software being written for the Pentium proves that an 8080 was better than a Z80? As a matter of interest, the 6502 was the successor to the 6501, pin-compatible with the 6800 and not that much different. The 6809 was substantially different from both of them... m

20 years, 8 months

2
1
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RT11 boot block 0 words ?

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Jan 4 2006, 21:49, Gooijen, Henk wrote: > I would like to use the vast knowledge of this community, as a brief > search through the calssiccmp archive gave no answer ... > I can't get RT11 booted anymore on my 11/34. > Is the first word (000240) the first word of block 0 of the RT11 bootstrap? Yes, AFAIR all standard DEC bootstraps have 240 as the first word of the boot block. 240 is NOP. Somebody once told me why they're done that way, but I can't remember; only that it seemed sensible at the time. The only exceptions I know are the not-really-bootstraps on the first block of non-bootable RSX disks, which contain a little bit of code that prints something like "This is not a bootable disk" to the console, and then halts. It sounds a bit like your boot block has been wiped, and mostly replaced with zeros. Can you load the first block off the disk manually, preferably not into location 000000, and examine it? Should be fairly easy with an RL11. Then try some other block and make sure that's not all zeros, to ensure it's the disk content you're seeing, not some problem with the controller. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

DEC 874-A Power Conditioner

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Jan 5 2006, 0:53, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Jan 4 2006, 10:56, Richard wrote: > > Mine is labelled "AUX On/Off" and I didn't know what it did. > > > > On the 861 power conditioner there is a connector labelled J2. Is > > this where the switch connects up? > > If it's a 3-pin AMP Commercial Mate-N-Lock, then yes it's the power > control bus. I should have added: There's a fairly good picture at http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/PDP-11/AMP-Mate-N-Lock3.jpg if you don't know what those connectors look like. The one on the left is the one that goes on each end of the control cable; the one on the right is the one you'll find on the 861, 871 or 874 controllers and the panel carrying the AUX switch. They are, incidentally, the same range of connectors used for the full-size 4-way power connector on disk drives and the like. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

DEC 874-A Power Conditioner

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Jan 4 2006, 10:56, Richard wrote: > In article <10601040813.ZM28391 at mindy.dunnington.plus.com>, > Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com> writes: > > There should be, on all BA11-M, BA11-N, and BA11-S boxes (except some > > expansion boxes that have no LED/switch panel at all) though depending > > on the box, it may be labelled LTC or AUX. Incidentally, on a BA23, the power control is brought out to the standard 3-pin Mate-N-Lock labelled J6, on the back of the chassis, at the left, near the IEC mains inlet. > Mine is labelled "AUX On/Off" and I didn't know what it did. > > On the 861 power conditioner there is a connector labelled J2. Is > this where the switch connects up? If it's a 3-pin AMP Commercial Mate-N-Lock, then yes it's the power control bus. There should be two connectors, actually, so you can daisy-chain cabinets/controllers. As Henk said in a separate reply, the controllers normally have only mains power outlets and two or three control sockets. On my 861Bs there are 8 mains outlets on the left, 4 on the right, and the ON/OFF/REMOTE switch is towards the right, with one unlabelled power control socket to the left of it, and two more to the right. On my 871Bs, on the smaller QBus cabinets, there are three pairs of mains outlets, with the ON/OFF/REMOTE switch just to the right of centre above one pair, and two power control connectors labelled J1 and J2 above the rightmost pair. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 8 months

2
1
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relay logic

by vlm＠mulhollon.com

Anyone have intermediate to advanced level advice on relay logic? When I was a kid, each relay would cost about one hour of labor, a cheap bench linear supply could only handle about 10 active relays, and fanout ratios were maybe only 5 to 1. Now according to my latest Mouser catalog, each relay will cost me about two minutes of labor, a cheap switching power supply will run hundreds of relays, and I can easily get a 10 to 1 fanout even with cheapie relays. I'm quite well aware of how to make basic gates, FF, counters etc out of relays but I'm curious about anyone elses experiences. I can contemplate all kinds of weird problems like mechanical shock from so many relays clicking at once, or the relay equivalent of contact bounce, but I don't know if they're real problems. Then there's mounting issues.

20 years, 8 months

5
7
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Homebuilt TTL and transistor CPUs

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Roy J. Tellason" <rtellason at blazenet.net> > >On Wednesday 04 January 2006 09:31 am, J.C. Wren wrote: >> This fellow has some interesting projects. A 6502 opcode compatible >> CPU implemented in latches and EEPROMs. A NAND-gate based MC14500B. >> And a CPU using (mostly) only transistors. Also a introduction to >> microprogramming article, and some other good stuff. >> >> <URL: http://people.freenet.de/dieter.02/index.htm > >> >> I don't know if anyone else mentioned this page in the past. I >> don't recall it, and I tend to follow the homebuilt CPU threads here. >> If you've seen it already, sorry about that. > >I wonder how fast you could get one of those to go...? > >-- >Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and >ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can >be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" >- >Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James >M Dakin > Hi I suspect the limits are bus and speed of the EEPROM's. One can get EPROMs that are in the 50 to 60 ns someplace but getting data from normal random access memory can be an issue. Using one of the newer protocols, such as DDR would require a memory interface that was almost as complicated as the uP you were building. Still, there are a number of processor models that make sense for using slower memory. I've seen one that used a 20 bit data bus and most instructions were 5 bits. This means that 5 operations can be done on one instruction fetch. This doesn't work well with the typical RISC machine because you need operands. It does work with zero operand machines quite nicely :) Later Dwight

20 years, 8 months

3
2
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Speaking of 6502s, was Re: 70's micros still available - was 1802 problems

by leeeedavison＠yahoo.co.uk

> the 68HC11 seems to be everywhere--and the 6502 has been pretty > much relegated to obscurity. The reason you don't see it is that the part number oftem bears no similarity to 65x02. All the Mitsubishi 740 series and ITT CCU3000 series ucontrollers were 6502 cored as are a lot of Rockwell modem chips. Every BSB D2MAC receiver had two 6502 chips, one in the CAM badged GEC, Sharp TVs and Videos used them. In non computing equipment the most popular CPU core seems to be the 8031/51, 6502 and Z8, Lee. .. ___________________________________________________________ NEW Yahoo! Cars - sell your car and browse thousands of new and used cars online! http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/

20 years, 8 months

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DEC 874-A Power Conditioner

by oldcpu＠rogerwilco.org

Greetings to all, and here's to 2006! My first post, though I have skulked for months...still, consider me a PDP newbie... I've recently acquired a fully functional PDP-11/23plus with the idea that I'd re-acquaint myself with RSTS/E which happened to be the first system I was actually paid to program on. Trouble is, it was a short stint with this local VAR, and it was nearly 30 years ago! I don't even remember what the systems were exactly, though I think they were 11/40s. Stangely, these systems were in blue cabinets (did DEC ever do blue?), with none of the typical maroon or red PDP-11 signature color...that is until the LSI models started showing up in white, which is what I've got. Anyway, I'm now happily in the process of re-assembling the system and preparing for my first power up since getting it home. The configuration I have is in a double-wide 40" tall rack unit. Each rack or 'bay' between the three uprights has a 874-A power conditioner / power-strip unit that I'm trying to understand. I haven't been able to find any references to this component. Though I could just replicate the configuration that it had before being relocated (switches, wiring, etc.), which I have plenty of photos of, I'd like to understand this compenent better. Since I have a double-wide cabinet, I've got two of these units that are linked together with a 3-conductor cable, each end plugged into one of the four "Power Control Bus"-labeled sockets. One 874-A also has another connection from a second "PCB" socket to the the 11/23+ processor box. My guess is this line somehow is controlled by the front panel AUX ON/OFF switch. Also, each of the 874-A units has a small 3-position toggle switch: 'Remote On', 'Off', and 'Local On'. Before I go much further with experimenting on my own, I wonder if anyone here knows these units and can offer some info about how these units tie together and what settings do what. Comments? J.

20 years, 8 months

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Homebuilt TTL and transistor CPUs

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

Hi If it was some IP you bought or got from someone else, I don't think it would qualify. If you did the work your self, then it is valid. Think in terms of: I build my PC by plugging these cards in. versus: I build my cpu using FPGA for my alu and instruction decoder. I used my own MISC instruction set. later Dwight >From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > >What qualifies a CPU as "homebuilt"? Would an FPGA implementation qualify >as one? If not, why not? If FPGA is disqualifed, how about CPLD/GAL/PAL? > >I'm just trying to understand the rules of this thing. > >Cheers, >Chuck > >

20 years, 8 months

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Homebuilt TTL and transistor CPUs

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

>From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > >On 1/4/2006 at 11:29 AM Dwight Elvey wrote: > >> If it was some IP you bought or got from someone else, >>I don't think it would qualify. If you did the work your >>self, then it is valid. >> Think in terms of: >> I build my PC by plugging these cards in. >> versus: >> I build my cpu using FPGA for my alu and instruction >> decoder. I used my own MISC instruction set. > >Okay, so where does "I put together the logic (or used an FPGA) but >implemented someone else's instruction set (e.g. PDP-11, VAX, 6502, Z80, >etc.) fit in? > >Cheers, >Chuck > Hi I'd consider that to be home built. Just as the EPROM alu that he used on the 6502 was homebuilt. Still, it is much more fun to think about your own processor. Dwight

20 years, 8 months

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RA60 packs available

by qed_computers＠yahoo.com

Dear Sir, Kindly send me your quote for the RA60 pack and the condition and quantity of these packs including delivery to Jordan. BEST WISHES Nader Qandah __________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL ? Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com

20 years, 8 months

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RT11 boot block 0 words ?

by henk.gooijen＠oce.com

I would like to use the vast knowledge of this community, as a brief search through the calssiccmp archive gave no answer ... I can't get RT11 booted anymore on my 11/34. To isolate the problem I have only one RL02 drive connected to the RL11. Before I start the M9312 monitor, I dumped 00005's in the memory locations 000000 thru 000070. Then I started the M9312 monitor (at 165020), and enter "DL" on the prompt. I loaded the RL02 cartridge, that I always use, first, of course. The READY lamp of the RL02 drive flashes briefly off/on once, and then the display on the 11/34 console shows (address) 000004, and the RUN lamp goes off. Examining the memory shows that location 000000 contains 000240, and all subsequent locations contain 000000. So the memory locations are written ... Is the first word (000240) the first word of block 0 of the RT11 bootstrap? I hesitate to load the XXDP RL02 cartridge that I have. I never made a copy (stupid, I know), and I am afraid to loose it ... thanks, - Henk, PA8PDP. This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message. Thank you for your cooperation.

20 years, 8 months

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DEC 874-A Power Conditioner

by henk.gooijen＠oce.com

BTW, what I did manage to get done in the past few weeks, is an "upgrade" of two 861's. I replaced the big electromagnetic relay with a modern Solid State Relay. If you install an SSR with zero-crossing detection switch-on, instead of the old relay, the power surge of the big transformer in the bigger UNIBUS PDP-11's will not trip the fuse in the house. It is fairly simple, and if you keep the old relay, you can alwyas revert to the original situation. Here's what I did. 0. Get a SSR with input 3-32VDC. The output is AC rating what you have at home (for your PDP-11's). 1. Get the diagrams from bitsavers. Not really necessary, but they will make you understand better how an 861 works. 2. Remove the electromagnetic relay. 3. Install the SSR (I had to drill one hole, sorry ...) 4. Remove the pilot control board. 5. Cut the trace that connects the reed relay to the *AC* power. The other trace goes to the relay. It depends a little on the type of board, as I have seen a few small differences. 6. Connect the cut trace (to the reed contact) to the "+" of the electrolytic cap. 7. Connect the "-" wire from the electrolytic cap to the "-" of the SSR input. And connect the other contact of the reed relay to the "+" of the SSR relay. 8. Lead one wire from the AC breaker directly to the output cap. From the output cap straight to the AC power socket (Neutral). 9. Lead the "hot" wire from the AC breaker to the SSR AC LOAD input, and a wire from the SSR AC LOAD output to the other contact of the AC power socket (Phase, "hot"). Before you apply power (stand-alnoe, just the 861 box!) check the wiring at least once ...! I haven't had a tripping fuse up till now when I turn on the 11/34. - Henk, PA8PDP. ________________________________ Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org namens Richard Verzonden: wo 04-01-2006 18:56 Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Onderwerp: Re: DEC 874-A Power Conditioner In article <10601040813.ZM28391 at mindy.dunnington.plus.com>, Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com> writes: > On Jan 4 2006, 8:22, Gooijen, Henk wrote: > > Hi Richard, > > I have one 11/03, but AFAIK (I'm at work now) there is no switch > > on the front panel of the 03 to control on/off. > > There should be, on all BA11-M, BA11-M, and BA11-S boxes (except some > expansion boxes that have no LED/switch panel at all) though depending > on the box, it may be labelled LTC or AUX. Mine is labelled "AUX On/Off" and I didn't know what it did. On the 861 power conditioner there is a connector labelled J2. Is this where the switch connects up? -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ: <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/ <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/> > Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty <http://pilgrimage.scene.org <http://pilgrimage.scene.org> > This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message. Thank you for your cooperation.

20 years, 8 months

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DEC 874-A Power Conditioner

by henk.gooijen＠oce.com

I am at home now ... my 11/03 has the switch labeled LTC on | off. I checked a few (old black) 861's that I have, but none of them had a "Jx" label. A modern-ish (blank metal) one had J10 and J11 on it printed. AFAIK, all 861's have only "heavy" AC power outlets and small 3-pin control sockets. Get the 861 diagrams from bitsavers, I'd say ... - Henk, PA8PDP. ________________________________ Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org namens Richard Verzonden: wo 04-01-2006 18:56 Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Onderwerp: Re: DEC 874-A Power Conditioner In article <10601040813.ZM28391 at mindy.dunnington.plus.com>, Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com> writes: > On Jan 4 2006, 8:22, Gooijen, Henk wrote: > > Hi Richard, > > I have one 11/03, but AFAIK (I'm at work now) there is no switch > > on the front panel of the 03 to control on/off. > > There should be, on all BA11-M, BA11-M, and BA11-S boxes (except some > expansion boxes that have no LED/switch panel at all) though depending > on the box, it may be labelled LTC or AUX. Mine is labelled "AUX On/Off" and I didn't know what it did. On the 861 power conditioner there is a connector labelled J2. Is this where the switch connects up? -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline"-- code samples, sample chapter, FAQ: <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/> Pilgrimage: Utah's annual demoparty <http://pilgrimage.scene.org> This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message. Thank you for your cooperation.

20 years, 8 months

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