- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by ISC277＠CLCILLINOIS.EDU

I was trying to set up my DQ132 to work with my Overland OD3201 yesterday, and I have a strange problem with it. No matter whether or not I change switch 10, labeled "22 bit addressing/Extended Features" I get the error "Extended Features Disabled, Extended Features must be enabled for device TS:, Device Disabled" when I boot RSTS/E 9.6. It's supposed to have two modes, TSV05, and TS11/TU80. The mode I want is the TS11/TU80 mode. How do I accomplish this? The manual doesn't say. Anyone using one of these cards? Other things of note: - I added jumpers to change the way the drives are set as an attempt to set the modes correctly at pins J9-C to J7-A, J7-B to J8-B, and from J8-A to J6-A. The reson for this is that my tape drive can ONLY do 1600 or 3200 bpi. It's sort of an oddball that way. The manual is at http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dilog/2120-0044-3_DQ132_Dec85.pdf On page 2-5 table 2-3, I the jumper configuration I described above is the 3rd one down. Most of the info is on table 2-5 and 2-6. There is another section on Chuck McManis' page http://www.mcmanis.com/chuck/computers/vaxen/dq132.htm that talks about the DQ132 and mentions jumpers needing to be removed for a Q/CD backplane. Does the 11/23+ BA11-SE backplane qualify as Q/CD? Any help would be appreciated! Julian

20 years, 2 months

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The 11/34 has been DEFEATED

by fireflyst＠earthlink.net

Well, thanks to persistance, patience, and people on this list, I finally fix'ed the vile beast's problems. Okay, the last step was entirely ignorance on my part, as a timely call from Paul Anderson this afternoon pointed out my folly: I didn't know that the CPU was supposed to come up in a RUN mode - I thought you had to start it. He had me halt and start the CPU and run a branch-self, it just looped like it was supposed to. I now get the console, emulator, so a running OS isn't far off. I've got two SLUs - anyone know if there's TU58 diag images around? :) *sigh* If there's any hobby where ignorance isn't bliss, it's this one. Thanks again to everyone who assisted!

20 years, 2 months

5
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The 11/34 has been DEFEATED

by fireflyst＠earthlink.net

> I forgot to mention that, because of the "under Windows" > capability, I prefer Don's TU58 simulator. And I also forgot > to mention the great help I got from Don, while trying to get > it working! His help was so good that the TU58 simulator > *should* have worked. I moved on, to return to it later, > after my view was cleared. I guess, now is the time :-) I > know, if you spend too much time too long on a problem, you > develop a kind of blindness to solve the problem. Leaving and > returning later often helps ... I totally agree with this, I think Is hould have interspersed my time a little better - I tend to work on something way too hard and then burn out, then wait too long to come back to it to where I forget what I learned.

20 years, 2 months

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The old Computer Collector Newsletter is back! Sort of.

by evan＠snarc.net

Hello out there, A few months ago, I posted here that the Computer Collector Newsletter was being renamed Technology Rewind. That's still the case, but I realized that much more than a name change was in order. CCN reached about 1,000 subscribers and that made me feel quite proud, but I couldn't keep up with the scale. It was simply too much effort to keep publishing without any source of income, and we (I and the contributing editors) were certainly NOT going to charge money for this. So instead I decided to make a big change: CCN-turned-TR would "go blog" instead. We're quite aware that the web log format will turn off some readers. Some people insisted that CCN be delivered in raw text as no more than 80 columns, as we were happy to oblige. That made sense two years ago. But now we think it's equally important to help this hobby grow, and the web is the place to do it. We'll be sorry to see any of our former readers leave, so we ask that you give the format a try. The new address is just http://www.technologyrewind.com but for now it's something of a beta version. There are plenty of links to be fixed, old articles to be uploaded, email addresses to nowhere, and who knows what other bugs we might find. For the new few weeks, our pace of posting new blog entries will be slow. We'll ramp us gradually, and there may be more contributors than in the past. As always, we welcome your comments and suggestions OFF-LIST please. :) - Evan

20 years, 2 months

5
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RTvax 1000 monitor connection help needed

by ying6926＠ureach.com

I am new to old vax computer. Help is appreciated. DEC rtvax 1000 620QY-A2 (1989 or 90?) From hard drive LED and LED display on the back the booting is all fine. It has two DB9 connectors on the back. I could not get matching monitor. Tried CGA nothing come out. Use DB9 to DB15 connector cable nothing came out on modern VGA monitor. But the monitor senses something and LED in front of VGA became green for a second and became yellow again. Tried Sony triniton with analog, digital 1 and digital 2 selection on the back, something came out (at least bright) but no characters. Is this syn issue or analog/digital issue? Any way can I open the chasis and figure out what kind of monitor I need? How do I prepare one hardware backup plan like floppy and tape similar to floppy and CD on model PC? How do I restore? thanks Henry

20 years, 2 months

2
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FYI last time buy of sbc6120 pdp8 work-alike

by spasticcolin-pdp8＠yahoo.com

Bob Armstrong at www.sparetimegizmos.com is trying to get enough order requests together to meet the numbers necessary to justify a last time parts order of his sbc6120 kit of a pdp-8e work alike clone. This kit is based on the harris hd6120 used in decmates and runs the pdp8 instruction set natively. He left a message on the alt.sys.pdp8 newsgroup. You can contact him at bob at jfcl.com. He estimates costs at $150 U.S. for a circuit card, cpu chip, static ram and stacking connector. the rest of the parts required are still manufactrured and available thru places like digikey/mouser/newark. About 50 people built this sbc from the original parts buy, it works. For $ 150 bucks how can you go wrong? I'm not in any way related to bob or sparetimegizmos. But I can't buy one unless others make the bulk parts order cost effective for Bob. He had 18 orders and needed more than twice that much by 10 june to go forward.

20 years, 2 months

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One For The Apple Guys

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

eBay: 7628399735

20 years, 2 months

2
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VT100 keyboard -> PS2?

by waisun.chia＠gmail.com

Has anybody interfaced a VT100 keyboard (1/4 plug) to a modern PeeCee? This either via a PS/2 or USB interface...

20 years, 2 months

2
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EU

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Mike wrote: I just finished reviewing a few cases sent out for servicing. One laptop was reported as not booting, - the tech toggled the display -it had been set to use external monitor. Another laptop was frozen, it did not respond to crtl-alt-del - the tech held in the power button, it was hibernating. ----------------------------------- Billy: I've been buying broken iPods minis on eBay for work. One I got was described as unable to load songs or use the menu. Cost a whole twenty dollars. I found the Hold switch in lockout. Only visible switch and dispalys red when on. Toggled the switch and had an iPod in perfect working condition with a good battery. More than made up for some of the junkers I get and have to fix. Billy

20 years, 2 months

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Docs avail: Vermont Research Model 1016 Drum Memory (1969)

by dave06a＠dunfield.com

Yesterday I was given a fairly hefty documentation set: Installation and Operation Model 1016 Drum Memory with Digital Interface Vermont Reserch Corporation North Springfield, Vermont Most of the documents are dated 1969. It contains a lot of technical information, theory of operation all all the boards, full schematics, copies of the original blueprint drawings etc. Anyone need/looking-for this? Regards, Dave PS: Anyone know what type of system this was used with? -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html

20 years, 2 months

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EU

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Teo Zenios wrote: Any how many hard drive companies are actually making a profit moving those 376 Million units? I don't expect blueprints and electrical schematics with the electronics I buy. But I do expect some way of finding out if the hardware is actually broken or something else (software, bad inputs etc) is causing things to not work. What percentage of returned electronics are sent back 100% working because people didn't have a good way to troubleshoot what the real problem was in the system? TZ ------------------------------------------------------------------ Billy: I believe that there are six major companies still doing disk drives: Seagate, Hitachi, Toshiba, Fujitsu, WD and Samsung. Seagate is doing great, WD about half of Seagate's profit. Samsung, and Fujitsu are profitable. Toshiba, probably not and Hitachi definitely not. If you are looking into testing units, look for the SMART attributes. Most modern drives do elaborate error monitoring and logging. These values are available to the user by reading out the SMART logs. Some OS's do this as a matter of course and even present error messages when a drive is starting to fail. Finally, recent drives usually have Drive Self Test capability if you want to invoke diagnostics. The ARM cores used have tremendous potential and power. An ARM- 9 processor at 400 MHz is far more powerful than any of the supercomputers I worked on. And they reserve10-20GBs for maintenance use - many times more drive capacity than any of the supercomputers I used to maintain. No Fault Found on returns can vary from 20 to 50%. That is the same ratio it was 30 years ago. And not surprisingly, it is the same ratio for Optical drives, game machines, printers, etc. It is not so much not able to troubleshoot as the fact that when a system goes in for repair, they usually swap out a hard drive. When that doesn't fix the issue, the techs don't put the original drive back. On all electronics, there are many user influenced errors that can never be reproduced. Static is one; power failures, partially plugged in sockets, shock, vibration from the environment, noisy AC power, and on and on. There are a large number of external conditions that can cause equipment failure. If you are not there, you don't know what the conditions are. Of course there is the other extreme. I worked on a computer once that the building contractor had tied the lightning rod to the grounding plane of the computer room. Every single PCB in the system was fried. I saw an IPod recently that had been run over by a bull dozer. We often get calls about recovering data from laptops dropped into a lake or the ocean. I have the case of an XBox that had been hit with a sledge hammer by a frustrated wife. Optical is usually sent in for foreign material in the disk tray. On the game machines that I gathered stats on, the number one failure was 2 or more CDs. The users thought they could stack up games like a phonograph. And I thought finding pizza in a DVD was bizarre until I checked the logs and found we averaged one of two a week. I guess a game system is warm and lends itself to being an oven. Billy

20 years, 2 months

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EU

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Tony Duell wrote: Well, if I've got a few hundred megs of data on a hard drive, I'd rather repair a simple electronic fault than have to restore it all from backups. And it would take me lest time to repair such a fault than it would take to ship the replacement drive. -Tony ------------------------------------ Billy - I'll try one last time and then give up. Tony, hard drives rarely rarely have a simple electronic fault. The ratio of mechanical to electrical faults is around 98 to 1. They are so rare that most companies don't repair PCBs. You cannot repair mechanical failures in drives made in the last 25 years without highly specialized equipment. Drives made in the last ten years require Class 10 clean rooms, thanks to flying heights less than the wavelength of visible light. Yes I know you have a few early primitive drives that you fixed in the past. But technology has moved a long long ways from those Paleolithic days. We still repair drives, we still use technicians, but they sure as hell don't use soldering irons, oscilloscopes and schematics. And no, we didn't lose any customers because we stopped providing maintenance manuals. The demand for disk drives soared last year to 376 million units, a 23% jump over the previous year. I know you didn't buy any, and we'll have deal with that loss. But out of the tens of millions we sell every quarter, not a single paying customer asks for documentation other than spec sheets and the fluff manual that is standard today. And none of those customers have the slightest interest in any kind of repair. So tell me - why in the hell should we do something as pointless as provide documentation that will go unused? If you want to influence that SOP, buy some new product and demonstrate the need. Exercise your power by purchase. Otherwise, accept that the rest of the world doesn't like nor want equipment that requires repair. And please stop complaining about the lack of manuals. They ain't gonna happen. The products you like to work on were obsolete before most of our engineers were born. The world isn't going to back up to meet your needs. So why don't you develop new skills and learn how to repair this new equipment? Expand and learn - a lot of us here are older than you and had no trouble adapting to technological change. If you insist on only using trivial Stone Age technology, it's your choice. But you're missing out on equipment many times more exciting and fun to use. There's a place for you at the cutting edge. And you can still have your toys; have your cake and eat it too. And if not, well we'll miss you. Billy

20 years, 2 months

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classiccmp todo/idea list

by vp＠drexel.edu

"Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org> wrote: > If you've got one in front of you, why do you need pictures of the inside? to answer questions like: does this bracket do this way or that way? also was that placed like that on purpose? Some machines (esp old ones) have been modified and you may want to bring it back to its nominal state (esp if you are investigating some strange behaviour). Another example is the 9825A where a flat cable does not follow the convention that the red stripe should be near side of the connector with the little triangle. On a machine with voltages ranging from -20 to +20 you'd better plug in stuff the right way. Having said that, I usually take pictures of the machine as I take it apart to make sure I can go back and check things. In the case of the 9825A I assumed that having the service manual (original with readable photos) would be sufficient. False! I had to check the location of the ground connections to be sure that the connector was going in the "wrong" way (red stripe away from the triangle). In fact the same flat cable plugs in the other way round (red stripe near the triangle) to the I/O connector, which leads me to believe that HP people at the time either ignored or were unaware of this convention. **vp

20 years, 2 months

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Need pointers on Oscilloscopes

by joachim.thiemann＠gmail.com

If the OP is looking for a new scope that's cheap, here at McGill, we've been using the PicoScope USB scopes in the EE labs (DSP Hardware). We trust undergrads with them, and they're a heck of a lot easier to store (if you have 10 of them in a lab). No knobs or buttons, just 2 BNC and a USB-B on a white box the size of a hardback book. Unfortuantely they are Windows-only, so no use for someone like me who's only got Mac and NetBSD at home. And it's quite possible to find a good used analog scope for less, I think, but a digital storage scope has some advantages... Joe.

20 years, 2 months

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EU

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Tony Duell wrote: > single board drives, we didn't want them to repair the units. The = No, you'd rather sell them a replacement drive than have them replace some $1 component (I've seen a Wren, there's a lot that can be field-repaired on one, expecially given a schematic). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Billy: Once again you missed the point. Sure there's a few items on Wren that could be repaired. Though in all the hundreds of thousands built, I never saw a single PCB failure. And I wish you would consider your time as valuable. Repair, as you said earlier, is not about the 10P resistor but about the knowledge and experience of the technician. It is not free. Maybe everybody, could fix it without damaging it. But if they didn't, then the manufacturer is liable for the botched repair. And don't say this didn't happen. For almost 10 years, those of us in Field Service had to go out and clean up the messes that so called trained engineers created. I have enough stories about the idiocy prevalent in the computer repair field, that I've started writing a book about some of them. We did not want to cater to this tiny miserable bunch that caused so much grief and expense, so we forced a change. And it became a standard for peripheral companies. Eliminating maintenance and repair on hard drives saved tens of millions of dollars and raised our customer satisfaction enormously. The main point is: to accommodate the whimsy of one hobbyist, we would have had to invest 100's of thousands of dollars in technical manuals, keep them up to date, make them available. The Wren had more than 50 variations - I know because I had to track them. It would have required a staff of 20 to keep the manuals accurate. Making a maintenance manual available would have been a disastrous financial mistake. And for what purpose? Only one person in the world would use this documentation. Everyone else would prefer to spend the $50 on a new drive than risk reusing a repaired one Billy.

20 years, 2 months

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Docs avail: Vermont Research Model 1016 Drum Memory (1969)

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Chuck Guzis wrote: On 6/8/2006 at 7:59 PM Billy Pettit wrote: >Billy: >There were several reasons, but the biggest one was: they could do parallel >read and writes. You could stripe them for 16 bit wide data paths that >became incredibly fast. And with virtually no bit skew. Plus access time >was never more than one revolution. Yeah, but in a Star-100 SBU, there was enough memory in the thing that the drum hardly got used past booting the thing up. There was just no point to the speed. The Star paged to disk; there were some plans initially for a huge drum, running something like 512 bits parallel, but I don't know if the concept ever made it off paper. The funny thing was that there were the same SBUs on the two Star-1B's in Sunnyvale--the SBU's were qutie a bit faster than the 1Bs themselves. (Those two systems eventually went into the dumpster per company policy). During the 60's, drums gave disks a run for their money. I remember a Univac 1108 with the very large FASTRAND-II moving-head drum on it. There were a number of late 50's-early-60's machine with drum as the main memory, such as the IBM 650 and the LGP-30. "one plus one" addressing. Cheers, Chuck ---------------------------------------------------------- Billy: What a meaty message! All sorts of hooks. I'll try to stay in order. 1. The Star-100 was massive. And memory technology was in a transition, so a lot of the plans changed mid-stream. That was part of what killed it. By time it was working, it was obsolete. The storage concept came from 7600 ideas. You are dead on with the word staging. What software wanted was to stage ALL data transfers. The program would be loaded (including all required data tapes) from a tape station. In turn, the tape station would send the package to the storage station via memory to memory transfer. Then the storage station would transfer to the main memory also via memory to memory. Except that this transfer was supposed to be via 512 bit SWords(SuperWords). It was sort of the ultimate of Seymour's philosophy of using the CPU for calculating and every thing else was done off line. 2. The drum was an interim device. There was a point to it - the speed was needed to debug the channels and the streaming busses. This program required a lot of band aids while waiting for the new technology to come along. It made a lot of risky bets on new peripherals to keep up with the speed. The 512 bit wide drum did get to the prototype stage. But it was incredibly costly. To get the bit density and performance needed, the entire drum was filled with Helium under pressure. But it was fast. If I remember the analysis correctly, the big drum would have cost more than the main frame. 3. The disks were never close to what was needed. Cray was using Ibis and Fujitsu disk with parallel heads (4 bits at a time). The Star team funded a parallel head disk from Normandale, but I don't it ever got of the ground either. They also had a multiple actuator drive in the lab that had the same problems that caused all other attempts of this idea to fail. 4. The most exotic peripheral I saw was an 18" wide tape unit that used a helical scan head bar. It was being developed by the Government Systems Division. It made so much noise that you had to be in another room when it was running. 5. So there were all sorts of experiments running side by side to find some way to support the huge data rate required. The drums were more a proof of concept. They allowed the channels to run at full speed even if they couldn't supply much data. 6. The Star-1Bs were never intended to be products or peripheral stations. They were a totally microcoded pseudo-processor. Again, they were proof of concept, to have something for the programmers to run on. Working Star hardware was years away when they started the program. The OS needed development. And the designers needed machines to debug the commands on. The instruction set was pure IPL. Some of the instructions were very complex. The Star-1B was frequently recoded as the instruction set was refined. It wasn't pretty and it wasn't fast. But it was very easy to reconfigure, the critical parameter at that time. 7. I was assigned to the Star-65 program being developed in Mississauga. It had to run at least half the Star-100 speed using the same technology where possible. We had a couple of 1-Bs for the software folks. Used the same memories and Star Stations. But the processor was a different concept: the Star-100 was a massive brute force parallel machine. the Star-65 was a hybrid using some of the streaming units, but with a microcoded main processor Damn, those were exciting times! So many new ideas and concepts being tried. Today, 30 years later, I see an occasional reminder of those Halcyon machines. For example, the streaming function in ATA-7. Or pipelines in communication processors. 8. FASTRAND II and III lived on for decodes in the Sabre airline scheduling systems from Univac. I know some were still in operation until the mid-1990s. Somebody on the list probably worked on the 490 Series. Anyone? 9. All of the early computers I worked on were drum memory based. In the Army, it was the Pershing Fire Control Computer. And the Redstone jukebox, a fixed head sealed disk, actually. But CDC trained me on the Bendix G-15, LGP-30 and RPC-4000. I can't say I have fond memories of all of them. But I did prefer drums over disks until the first Winchesters became reliable. Billy

20 years, 2 months

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[Fwd: more info about that scrapper]

by dittman＠dittman.net

Here's an update on the scrapper from Dave McGuire: > Ok, some good news here. I've had a good dialogue with that > scrapper up in Canada; he is beginning to understand the situation. > He seems to be a pretty bright guy and is receptive to new > information. I've offered to help him go over some of his stuff > and help him price it. -- Eric Dittman dittman at dittman.net

20 years, 2 months

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Need help reading IBM System/36 disks

by sellam＠vintagetech.com

Is there anyone that has the facilities to read IBM System/36 disks at the filesystem level? I have 5 disks from which I need to transfer the files. If someone can do this for me I will pay in $$$ or trade items. Please e-mail me directly. I will not get any replies to the list. sellam at vintagetech.com Hope everyone is having a groovy time! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

20 years, 2 months

3
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Need manual for Etak Dispatch ($$$)

by sellam＠vintagetech.com

Etak Disptach is a mid-1980s era GIS (mapping/routing) system. I need the manual for the product, or the product itself. I'll pay a $100 bounty for the manual, or more for an example of the complete system. I do not read the list. I only post here. If you have something or even a lead, please reply directly to me. <sellam at vintagetech.com> Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

20 years, 2 months

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SBC6120 (a build-it-yourself PDP-8 clone) Last Buy and End of Life

by bob＠jfcl.com

>In the late 70s I used a timesharing operating system called (IIRC) >EduComp. This would allow eight users to have access to a virtual PDP- >8 and 32K memory. Is it available somewhere? There were many models of EduComp computers - the lower end systems ran a timeshared BASIC interpreter, and the higher end systems ran TSS/8. TSS/8 exists on the web and will run on simulators, but the SBC6120 lacks the timeshare hardware needed to make it work. AFAIK, EduComp BASIC has disappeared - if anybody has a copy of it, I'd love to get a copy. Bob

20 years, 2 months

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SBC6120 (a build-it-yourself PDP-8 clone) Last Buy and End of Life

by bob＠jfcl.com

> Chuck Guzis wrote: >So, what does one do with a PDP-8 clone? The SBC6120 will run OS/8, and OS/8 has BASIC, FORTRAN (IV), PAL, MACREL, LINK, TECO, ALGOL, SNOBOL, LISP, FOCAL, and even a simple Pascal. You ought to be able to think of something to do with it! Bob

20 years, 2 months

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My continuing 11/34 confusion

by ISC277＠CLCILLINOIS.EDU

Alright, so, I finally was able to get good readings at the backplane as far as votages go. My AC voltage is exactly 28 volts going into all units requesting. The -15v line is fine, it must just be the bulb that's burnt out on the regulator. So, as far as I can tell, my power supply is working just as it should. So now I move up to the backplane.I plugged in the memory and a DL11-W and put a tester on the RS232 lines - I get nothing coming from the DL11-W. The front panel reads all zeros when powered on, the Run light and DC lights are on. Here is my current backplane config: 1 M8266-----M8266-------M8266-------M8266-------M8266-------M8266 2 M8265-----M8265-------M8265-------M8265-------M8265-------M8265 3 M7891-----M7891-------M7891-------M7891-------M7891-------M7891 4 M9301-----M9301 M7859-------M7859-------M7859-------M7859 5 EMPTY EMPTY M7856-------M7856-------M7856-------M7856 6 EMPTY EMPTY EMPTY EMPTY G727 EMPTY 7 EMPTY EMPTY EMPTY EMPTY G727 EMPTY 8 EMPTY EMPTY EMPTY EMPTY G727 EMPTY 9 M9302-----M9302 EMPTY EMPTY G727 EMPTY Can anyone make sense of this? Thanks Julian

20 years, 2 months

6
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ATT-6300 PC (1985) for sale:

by tosteve＠yahoo.com

Folks, Kirk has an ATT-6300 for sale. Contact him, not I. -------------------- Kirk <kjb23 at verizon.net> writes: "I'm the original owner of a 1985 ATT6300 PC I'd like to sell for whatever its worth. It was a "high-end" one at the time. 10 MB HD, 640x400 color monitor, 640 KB RAM. I replaced the 8086 CPU with a V30 chip for faster performance (executes same 8086 instruction set in fewer T-states), 8087 math coprocessor, ATT 2MB RAM expansion board, 20 MG Plus Hardcard, and a STI EGA video card (special card made for ATT computers and monitors). It worked fine up until the mid 90's when the power supply became intermitant. Everything else was working just fine. As a bonus, I have an Epson 185 dot-matrix printer (132 column) in excellent shape. It was bought at the same time. Kirk kjb23 at verizon.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

20 years, 2 months

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Docs avail: Vermont Research Model 1016 Drum Memory (1969)

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Chuck Guzis wrote: On 6/8/2006 at 12:40 PM Billy Pettit wrote: >We used some of them at Control Data on the Process Control Computers. I >liked them; very nice, relieable drums, ran forever. I would love to find >one now. Would complement my old timer nicely. They were also used in the Star-100 SBUs. For the life of me, I never figured out why drums and not disks, but 'twas so. A lot of military aircraft computers used them also. The givewaway there would be the 400 Hz spindle motor. Cheers, Chuck -------------------------------------------------------- Billy: There were several reasons, but the biggest one was: they could do parallel read and writes. You could stripe them for 16 bit wide data paths that became incredibly fast. And with virtually no bit skew. Plus access time was never more than one revolution. (It would be years before access time on disks got down to the 16ms range.) Finally, we just hashed over the painful reliability of early disks. Drums were used since the 50's, had a lot engineering behind them. Unfortunately, they were hard to increase capacity on, weren't removable and never became cheap. Billy

20 years, 2 months

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Docs avail: Vermont Research Model 1016 Drum Memory (1969)

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Dave Dunfield wrote: Yesterday I was given a fairly hefty documentation set: Installation and Operation Model 1016 Drum Memory with Digital Interface Vermont Reserch Corporation North Springfield, Vermont Most of the documents are dated 1969. It contains a lot of technical information, theory of operation all all the boards, full schematics, copies of the original blueprint drawings etc. Anyone need/looking-for this? Regards, Dave PS: Anyone know what type of system this was used with? -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield Billy: We used some of them at Control Data on the Process Control Computers. I liked them; very nice, relieable drums, ran forever. I would love to find one now. Would complement my old timer nicely. And I would certainly like to have the set of documentation and would gladly pay for the shipping. But I'll do something better for the group: I'll happily pay for the shipping to to Al K. so he can put them on his site. Then all of us will benefit from your find. Billy

20 years, 2 months

3
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MTOS-86 info?

by cclist＠sydex.com

Does anyone have any documentation on MTOS-86? The sample I'm trying to work through appears to load from CP/M-86 and be directly tied to an application. Cheers, Chuck

20 years, 2 months

1
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What's up with these floppies???

by wh.sudbrink＠verizon.net

ebay auction : 8821101727 A pair of Mitsubishi M2896-63-02U 8 inch floppies... Bare drives no chassis or power supply. They look like pretty bog standard half height 8 inch drives to me. Sold for $257 US.

20 years, 2 months

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Need pointers on Oscilloscopes

by ISC277＠CLCILLINOIS.EDU

Hi all, I'm going to go to a hamfest this weekend to look for an oscilloscope. Do you guys have any pointers on what to look for, and how to know if what I'm looking at has problems? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks! Julian

20 years, 2 months

1
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sync serial cards

by phil＠ultimate.com

Brad Parker <brad at heeltoe.com> wrote: > I think I hacked a sync driver I got from someone else (Phil Budne? > does that sound right Phil?) I suppose it's plausible, but I can no longer remember what I had for lunch yesterday, never mind last week. The first copy of the stuff I found seems to be stuff you had already hacked on: home% gtar tzvf doc/networking/morningstar/sync_scc.tar.gz drwxrwxr-x 100/users 0 Oct 6 07:36 1997 hdlc.fcr/ drwxrwxr-x 100/users 0 Oct 6 07:36 1997 hdlc.fcr/CVS/ -rw-rw-r-- 100/users 48 Oct 6 07:36 1997 hdlc.fcr/CVS/Root -rw-rw-r-- 100/users 43 Oct 6 07:36 1997 hdlc.fcr/CVS/Repository -rw-rw-r-- 100/users 289 Oct 6 07:36 1997 hdlc.fcr/CVS/Entries -rwxrwxr-x 100/users 268 Oct 6 07:36 1997 hdlc.fcr/hdlc_install -rw-rw-r-- 100/users 603 Oct 6 07:36 1997 hdlc.fcr/Makefile -rw-rw-r-- 100/users 24761 Oct 6 07:36 1997 hdlc.fcr/hdlc.c -rw-rw-r-- 100/users 2477 Oct 6 07:36 1997 hdlc.fcr/hdlc.h -rw-rw-r-- 100/users 584 Oct 6 07:36 1997 hdlc.fcr/hdlc_load -rw-rw-r-- 100/users 1313 Oct 6 07:36 1997 hdlc.fcr/hdlc_sub.s -rw-rw-r-- 100/users 2140 Oct 6 07:36 1997 hdlc.fcr/mod.c drwxrwxr-x 100/users 0 Oct 6 07:40 1997 sync/ drwxrwxr-x 100/users 0 Oct 6 07:40 1997 sync/CVS/ -rw-rw-r-- 100/users 48 Oct 6 07:40 1997 sync/CVS/Root -rw-rw-r-- 100/users 39 Oct 6 07:40 1997 sync/CVS/Repository -rw-rw-r-- 100/users 207 Oct 6 07:40 1997 sync/CVS/Entries -rw-rw-r-- 100/users 102 Oct 6 07:40 1997 sync/Makefile -rw-rw-r-- 100/users 283 Oct 6 07:40 1997 sync/README -rw-rw-r-- 100/users 2477 Oct 6 07:40 1997 sync/hdlc.h -rw-rw-r-- 100/users 1605 Oct 6 07:40 1997 sync/hdlcstat.c -rw-rw-r-- 100/users 1093 Oct 6 07:40 1997 sync/hdlctest.c .... home% head hdlc.fcr/hdlc.c /* * HDLC driver for sun's SCC hardware * * added support for async i/o & signals * added support for modem signal bits * some slight improvements * Sunos 4.1.3 * brad at fcr.com 3/94 * ....

20 years, 2 months

1
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Need help with big old computer in Florida

by sellam＠vintagetech.com

I need to get someone's help to move an old computer in the Jacksonville area from where it currently resides (in a house on the ground floor right by a conveniently located door) to a local public storage area. I would need someone to make the move for me as well as scout out a local public storage business where I will store the computer until I'm able to ship it. Or I might just go ahead and ship it now, in which case I would need someone who is good at palletizing precious old computers for long hauls across the country. If you think you might be able to assist me with this there will be rewards (monetary or trade). Please reply directly to me as I won't get any replies to the list. sellam at vintagetech.com Thanks!! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

20 years, 2 months

1
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VCF-MW Lodging & SO/Munchkin Activities?

by zmerch-cctalk＠30below.com

For VCF-MidWest 2.0, where's everybody staying, or is it "catch-as-catch-can?" I've not yet registered (which I must do soon) and I'd like to put up a display table... I'll also have the wife & kiddies along - we're making this into a "family weekend" kinda thingy, as we're leaving Thursday afternoon(ish). I'm guessing it's about an 8 or 9 hour drive, so we're still planning out if we're driving the whole way in one go or stopping for the night halfway down or so.[1] So, what's available for non-geeks to do down at Purdue? I'd like to get the reservations pretty soon; as earlier usually == cheaper. ;-) BTW - I have a rather nice digital camera (Nikon D70) - so if anyone wants some nice pictures of their booth, track me down, just in case I don't get a chance to wander around & shoot everything anyway. Thanks! Roger "Merch" Merchberger [1] This info is rather pointless if you don't know (at least) my starting point! ;-) Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan - Take I-75 North until everyone says "Eh?" ;-) -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | A new truth in advertising slogan SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers | for MicroSoft: "We're not the oxy... zmerch at 30below.com | ...in oxymoron!"

20 years, 2 months

2
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OT: lathe tool bits

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

I'm making some spare parts for a piece of computer equipment, and I know a few others do similar things, so I thought I'd risk asking here. I need some spare TCMT090204 carbide tips (small triangular ones) for lathe tools, and I've seen some labelled TCMT 731. I think this is one manufacturer's part number for that size. Does anyone know if that's the case, and what the proper ANSI designation would be? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 2 months

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Intel MDS keyboard

by aw288＠osfn.org

I have a rather junky...very junky...keyboard for the Intel MDS 220 microprocessor system. No plastic, some keycaps missing, dirty. It might be good for spares (like the keyboad encoder). Anyway need it? Cheeeeep bribes go a long way, but I at least ask for shipping. William Donzelli aw288 at osfn.org

20 years, 3 months

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ComputerVision CADDstation 32

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

I've posted about this machine a couple times before- it's a Sun 3004 + Carerra memory along with a bunch of ComputerVision parts. It looks like it runs SunOS 3.x at this point. I have documentation. Anyway - This beast is biggish and the 3004 has some sort of fault, the nature of which is beyond my current skills to locate. I did pop in a 3/110 mainboard, and it semi-booted (started complaining about unhandled interrupts- looks like it has a trimmed kernel). Looks like the drive (a Control Data) is having issues (errors on a couple of directories when I mounted it from a 4.1.4 IPX). Disclaimers aside- or the Reason for This Message: I don't think that I can keep this machine, and I think that there are others on the list who would be more interested in it. It has, in addition to the CPU and RAM (12 MB), the CV framebuffer, CV GPU (2 board set), tablet interface, and SCSI+serial card (SMPL board in CV lingo). Built-in tape drive (complete with gummy roller) and the CDC 1?0 MB SCSI drive in a deskside chassis (not Sun 3/160). Docs and tapes included, all smoked caps have been replaced. I will be scanning the docs and taking more pictures before getting rid of it. Preference given to location (about 150-200 pounds of computer here), interest, and bribes (I'm looking for a decent smallish VMS box that takes modern SCSI drives, and a MC88k box, but will consider other offers).

20 years, 3 months

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EU

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Tony Duell wrote: Certainly there are a _lot_ more dry joints (and I don't mean joints that look dry, but genuine bad connections) in consumer electronic devices using lead-free solder. -tony Billy: I'd like to see your data on this, if it is more than personal observation of a recent purchase. I work in an organization that does millions of PCBs a month, all RoHS compliant. And our experience and statistics don't match your statement. Billy

20 years, 3 months

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ITT Service Manual

by cc＠corti-net.de

Has anyone a copy of the ITT 3280 System service manual? I'm mostly interested in the terminals sections, i.e. ITT 3285/3287. The terminals may also be known as Courier C275 and C270. Christian

20 years, 3 months

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Altair32-Cromemco Dazzler Pictures

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> I don't have the working binaries yet Would it be possible to find out if the program images are from the paper tapes that are up at http://bitsavers.org/bits/Cromemco/paperTapes/ It has been claimed that the tapes there were read incorrectly and Since I didn't know the format, I have no way to verify them.

20 years, 3 months

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My continuing 11/34 confusion

by ISC277＠CLCILLINOIS.EDU

Alright, so, I finally was able to get good readings at the backplane as far as votages go. My AC voltage is exactly 28 volts going into all units requesting. The -15v line is fine, it must just be the bulb that's burnt out on the regulator. So, as far as I can tell, my power supply is working just as it should. So now I move up to the backplane.I plugged in the memory and a DL11-W and put a tester on the RS232 lines - I get nothing coming from the DL11-W. The front panel reads all zeros when powered on, the Run light and DC lights are on. Here is my current backplane config: 1 M8266-----M8266-------M8266-------M8266-------M8266-------M8266 2 M8265-----M8265-------M8265-------M8265-------M8265-------M8265 3 M7891-----M7891-------M7891-------M7891-------M7891-------M7891 4 M9301-----M9301 M7859-------M7859-------M7859-------M7859 5 EMPTY EMPTY M7856-------M7856-------M7856-------M7856 6 EMPTY EMPTY EMPTY EMPTY G727 EMPTY 7 EMPTY EMPTY EMPTY EMPTY G727 EMPTY 8 EMPTY EMPTY EMPTY EMPTY G727 EMPTY 9 M9302-----M9302 EMPTY EMPTY G727 EMPTY Can anyone make sense of this? Thanks Julian

20 years, 3 months

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More details on "Free for Shipping"

by jrasite＠eoni.com

Here it is direct from the boss's hand... item 1 Microcom ISPorte, 48 port analog modem rackmount system includes: one chassis that is loaded with twelve quad modem cards (4 modems per card) (35 pounds) one spare, new empty chassis (21 pounds) one spare, new power supply (7 pounds) the quad modem cards have 4 RJ45 RS-232 DTE ports and 4 analog RJ11 ports. item 2 Computone Inteliserver. 64 port terminal server (25 pounds) includes paper documentation and console cable this unit is a rackmount chassis that contains CPU card with one 10BT Ethernet, and one RS-232 console port on the CPU card. 4 serial port cards with 16 serial ports on each card total of 64 ports the interface on the serial ports is RJ45. A standard straight patch cable can be connected between the Microcom DTE port and the Computone Serial port (that is how we used it in a dialup ISP application) The Intelliserver can take modem calls and provide the dialup user with a menu of service choices (telnet to this host, telnet to that host) or in our case we used it to run dialup PPP sessions the unit could be used for dump terminal applications as well. this example is just how we used it. Item 3 one ISA Comtrol 16 port RockPort serial card. Comes in original boxes w/ paper documentation. No technical support is included, all items are as-is, if you want to know if it is worth the shipping, look up UPS ground from 97850 to your zip code and add $10 for us to box it up and get it sent. We can ship after your check is sent to us and it clears the bank. If you are sure you want the items, call Jeff at 541-963-2625 and we can arrange all the details. Thanks. Jeff Crews Eastern Oregon Net, Inc. 808 Adams Av, La Grande Oregon 97850 main office: 541-962-7873 ext 11 or 800-785-7873 ext 11 direct 541-963-2625, fax 503-907-6704, email jeff at eoni.com http://home.eoni.com

20 years, 3 months

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My annual request: iAPX 432 binary code.

by aijones2＠bsu.edu

I asked this a year ago, and I think another time two years ago: Does anyone have any access to any sort of i432 binaries whatsoever? The i432 was Intel's brilliantly-designed, massively-multiway, object-oriented CPU from the late seventies and early eighties. It was a tremendously powerful, forward-looking design, but it was slower than molasses. At the same clock speed, an i432 was 1/4th the speed and 10x the cost of an 80286. I've got "enough" documentation on the thing to potentially write an emulator, but it's all a gedankenexperiment until I can get ahold of at least a snippet of actual i432 executables. I've long since given up on ever finding hardware; only a few systems ever made it into customer hands, and most of those were rather low-spec. Any tape dump of any kind containing i432 object code would be the closest I'll ever get!

20 years, 3 months

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Any Tandem collectors

by cclist＠sydex.com

The slow demise of SGI and probably Sun got me to thinking about another one-time Silicon Valley high-flyer, Tandem and its not-very-shy Texan CEO Jimmy Treybig. (I know that Compaq bought Tandem, but I don't count the modern systems as being truly "Tandem"). Does anyone here collect Tandem (or even Stratus) gear? Just curious. Cheers, Chuck

20 years, 3 months

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RS6k wanted

by oliv555＠arrl.net

Anyone have an F50 to sell? Looking for the 332mhz box, Houston area a plus. Would also consider trading my R-390a for the aforementioned F50. This is a very nice Collins/Motorola unit. Thanks, Nick O.

20 years, 3 months

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Humidity and storing paper manuals

by kelly＠catcorner.org

Has this been covered before? I have added a lot to my collection of Radio Shack manuals over the winter. It is now warm weather here on the east coast and that means lots of humidity. What are the reccomendations for humidity levels for long term storage of paper products. I have the dehumidifiers running and have it down to about 45%, but they're struggling to keep up. My basement is about 110 meters square and 2.2 meters high. Thanks, Kelly

20 years, 3 months

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1977 era RT-11 manuals available

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Someone in south-central US has "alot" of 1977 era RT-11 manuals available. I was going to direct them Al's way, but wanted to see if Jerome or someone dealing with older versions of RT-11 ressussitation may have a dire need (after which, they'd need to send them to Al). Contact me off-list. Jay West

20 years, 3 months

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Multiwire (was Re: PCB vs wirewrap)

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On 6/7/06, Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> wrote: > Thanks for all the replies, Multiwire was indeed the name I had forgotten. > Rather easy to forget... it's not a very unique name, there being lots of things > that could fittingly take on that name. The COMBOARD for VAXBI was a Multiwire board, "Unilayer", technically, but the same technology - they took our gerber map and created two custom "decals" of the wire nest, then bonded them down to a 10-layer! 0.1"-center perfboard with only the VAXBI corner done in copper traces (per DEC's VAXBI spec). The advantage was that the VAXBI corner layout was exactly to DEC's spec, and the rest of the board was to our spec, without the tooling costs of setting up and machining a 10-layer PCB. We worked out the math of the costs of Unilayer and full PCB production, and the setup-costs for 10-layer were so high that even though Unilayer was somewhat expensive, we saved money on the initial order of boards. Another cost savings was ECOs in a rev 0/rev A board... it can be tough to make a fix where the problem is on an inner layer (bad enough with 6-layer). We did end up making one cut and one jump on the Unilayer board, but were confident that a later board would have had no wires. Had there been enough demand for a second order, we had contemplated going the full PCB route, but the by the early 1990s (when we finally got our license to manufacture VAXBI boards), the market had moved on. I still have a VAXBI COMBOARD in the 8300 in my basement - it runs HASP and 3780 (we never had enough customer demand to port SNA to it), and if I can think of something else to do with it, I might someday redo the firmware and device driver. It is, in essence, a really-smart dual serial port (10Mhz 68010, 512K to 2MB of local RAM, 1 x Z8530 SIO), and the PCB is rather full, so even trying to hack it into, say, a SCSI card, would be difficult. Still, it was fascinating to open the box and see a large board coated with nests of fine wires... we _did_ inspect every single joint. We found one failure on one board, but not the bonding of the wires to the board - one pin insert was missing, leaving an IC pin hanging in free space. Stole one from the edge of the board from an unoccupied position and the board worked perfectly after that. -ethan

20 years, 3 months

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PCB vs wirewrap, was Re: SBC6120 (a build-it-yourself PDP-8

by marvin＠rain.org

That goes back a ways! I don't remember the name of the machine, but it was a patented process by IIRC PhotoCircuits based in NY. I had the opportunity to see one of the machines run at one of their plants while working on another machine, and it was pretty impressive. I'm not sure it was a cost effective solution for double sided PCBs, but back then, it was certainly an alternative for multilayer boards. > From: Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> > There was another technique for making circuit boards in the 70s: a > programmed/automated machine moved over the initially bare board and laid down > a fine wire from a spool to form the circuits. I think the wire stuck to the > board initially and the board was later lacquered or coated with something to > seal/hold the wires better. I forgot how the wire traces were terminated > around IC pin locations, probably a pressure weld. > > I think the economics were such that it was too slow for large production > runs, but was suitable for prototypes and small production runs of larger, > more-complex boards. Last example I saw was a disk-controller for a TI-990 > mini circa 1980. > > Anybody remember the name for the technique? >

20 years, 3 months

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Apple PB190 driver for Xircom PCMCIA NIC?

by Arno_1983＠gmx.de

Hello, a Xircom "CreditCard Ethernet 10/100-Ready" (CE3B-100BTX) PCMCIA NIC recently found its way to me, unfortunately without adaptor cable(s). Inserting it in my Apple Powerbook 190 (System 6.something IIRC, my only machine with PCMCIA slot yet) produced a message to the effect that the necessary support software wasn't installed and whether I wanted the card ejected just now or later ;). Anyway a new symbol with the name of the card appeared below that of the harddisk and showed me that it was detected correctly. Some searching of the net didn't turn up anything that looked particularly useful regarding drivers for anything besides Windows - not even at the Xircom (now Intel) product support site - and I'd be grateful to learn whether I have a chance of getting the card to work in the powerbook before I go shelling out money for a replacement cable. Thanks in advance. Yours sincerely, Arno Kletzander BTW: If you have replacement cables/dongles to offer in Europe, then please do it! -- Arno Kletzander Stud. Hilfskraft Informatik Sammlung Erlangen www.iser.uni-erlangen.de Echte DSL-Flatrate dauerhaft f?r 0,- Euro*! "Feel free" mit GMX DSL! http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl

20 years, 3 months

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PCB vs wirewrap, was Re: SBC6120

by allanh-cctalk＠kallisti.com

On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 17:59:53 -0700, "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> wrote: > IIRC, this preceded the Strip-n-Wrap system that was offered with a tool > that cut small slits in the very thin insulated wire, so that it would > contact the corners of a square wirewrap post. This (ostensibly) was > wonderful because you could daisy-chain your wraps without cutting the > wire. It never worked that well for me--the connections weren't really > tight, the wire was expensive, and the insulation was very very thin. I had the opposite experience - I built several quite complex prototypes using the Vector Slit-n-Wrap system, and had excellent results. In fact I still use it; I still have a working electric wrap tool (as far as I can tell they no longer make those, but they do still make manual ones and the tips are the same so I can still get replacement tips when necessary). The only problems I've ever seen are opens when I set the tension too low (which I catch immediately because it doesn't feel right), and breaking the wire when it is set too high. I have never seen a connection fail later. I also like that wire better than standard wirewrap wire; the tefzel insulation seems more forgiving than kynar. In addition to wirewrapping, I use it for soldered jumpers; with kynar, the insulation seems to like to split and come off the wire near the soldered joint. However, to be fair I don't recall having that problem even with kynar wire ten or more years ago; maybe it's just the quality of the kynar wire that has been available to me has dropped, as it comes from a variety of manufacturers competing for price while tefzel insulated wire still all comes through a single source. allan -- Allan N. Hessenflow allanh at kallisti.com

20 years, 3 months

2
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HP9825

by vp＠drexel.edu

Hi, I am looking for an HP9825 with the 98228A ROM (I guess that means that the 9825 must be a T model or an earlier model upgraded to an 9825T). I am working on a project to allow an HP-85 to read 9825 tapes, and I need to be able use floppies to xfer data between the 9825 and my main (OpenBSD) system. If anyone is willing to sell me an 9825T with the 98228A ROM, or lend me one (for abour 8-10 months) please contact me off list. I already have an 98034A HPIB interface. Thanks **vp http://www.series80.org

20 years, 3 months

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cctalk Digest, Vol 34, Issue 8

by mtapley＠swri.edu

At 20:25 -0500 6/3/06, Chuck wrote: >What was the MO drive on the Next cube--650 MB? Seemed silly to me to >market the thing without a hard drive--and I think Next eventually came >around to that way of thinking. 256 MB. I don't think the cartridges were interchangeable with anything else common. There were reversible cartridges which could hold 256M per side, but only one side was accessible at a time. NeXT did add first a "Swap drive" of 20 MB and later larger hard drives, 105MB in pizza boxes, 330 and 660 MB in cubes, and eventually stopped selling the opticals. There were significant problems with drive dust inhalation in the NeXT implementation. That led to reversal of the fan (by mechanically reversing, *not* by changing around the power connector, in case you want to try it) by many owners, which was eventually approved by NeXT. However, my cube has a fairly unique set-up which meant that fan reversal caused problems with overheating of the SCSI driver chip. There were also long-term problems with either the drives or the media - they seem to be going bad at a fairly regular pace. I don't know that I've heard a good explanation for that. It *might* be some form of connector corrosion; disassembling and cleaning mine has cured it twice, even though it didn't look dirty at all around the lens area. Corrections or clarifications welcome, apologies if this is redundant (getting behind on the digests again). -- - Mark Cell Phone: 210-379-4635 office: 210-522-6025

20 years, 3 months

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cctalk Digest, Vol 34, Issue 8

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Mark Tapley wrote: There were significant problems with drive dust inhalation in the NeXT implementation. That led to reversal of the fan (by mechanically reversing, *not* by changing around the power connector, in case you want to try it) by many owners, which was eventually approved by NeXT. However, my cube has a fairly unique set-up which meant that fan reversal caused problems with overheating of the SCSI driver chip. There were also long-term problems with either the drives or the media - they seem to be going bad at a fairly regular pace. I don't know that I've heard a good explanation for that. It *might* be some form of connector corrosion; disassembling and cleaning mine has cured it twice, even though it didn't look dirty at all around the lens area. Corrections or clarifications welcome, apologies if this is redundant (getting behind on the digests again). -- - Mark Billy: Dust was a huge problem with most of the earlier CDROMs. And a bigger problem when CD-RW came along. On my first trip to Hasselt, Belgium with Philips I was introduced to the Calibrated Dust Machine. This is no BS. Philips worked with IBM to develop a chamber that was filled with fine dust under slight pressure. The optical drives would be tested to failure. Some of the early drives would only go minutes before failure. Often powering them down and starting up was enough to remove the dust for a short time. Engineering would also test all the competitors to see how they sealed their units and how long they lasted. LG had by far the best seals around the OPU. Philips redesigned all their front doors and bezel seals to improve dust immunity. And sold testing to other companies. One of those memories that lasts a lifetime: the test engineer complaining about how hard it was to buy calibrated dust. Billy

20 years, 3 months

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Semi-OT: IDE & SATA to USB "dongles"

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Chuck Guzis wrote: I recall an operator starting out with one bad pack, and through swapping packs on drives, killing something like 13 drives and nine packs in the space of an hour. Billy: Once I moved to OKCity and worked on cartridge drives, this was one of our most common failure modes. Some people could never learn. One guy at 4 Phase Systems used to do this at least once a month. And he would lie about the bad pack and hide it. Probably the single most incompetent engineer I ever met. Of course he was later promoted to management and put in charge of their Field Engineers. Actually, I was thinking about him recently. The incoming area was at the back of 4 Phase, where Apple headquarters is now. I visited Infinity Drive and parked in almost the same spot. Deja vu. Chuck: I had a friend who observed the development of the 512. He said initially the thing was supposed to be a chain printer, but apparently they couldn't make a type chain that would hold together for more than a few minutes. Billy: I worked a little with the Development team on the 512. Their story was that they couldn't find a chain design that didn't infringe on IBM patents. This was at the time of the big lawsuit against IBM, so was a big deal. Chuck: The 501 printer was a pretty good workhorse and actually produced pretty decent output if run at the low speed setting--which no one ever did. There was another little drum printer used with the Intercom terminals that wasn't too bad; I don't recall the model number, though. Cheers, Chuck Billy: The 501 was messy to work on. The print drum segments would fill up with ribbon crap, and had to be cleaned with a tooth brush and solvent. The most efficient cleaner was carbon tetrachloride, which cut right through the ink. But left you feeling woozy. It wasn't until years later that I found out how dangerous our recommended process was. Still, even today you come across the occasional drum segment on somebody's desk. They make good pencil holders and seem to be a mark of old-fartness for field engineers. Saw one on eBay last year for some ridiculous price. The first CDC printers were made by Analex. Huge things, almost needed a room by themselves, ran at 1000 lines a minute. Sometimes for 2 or 3 hours straight, before breaking. Used a ribbon 18 inches wide. The PCBs were large horizontal PCBs the size of cookie sheets. You had to troubleshoot to the component level, then disassemble the logic chassis so you could get to the component to replace it. On small systems, a drum printer called the 166 was used; it was a 150 line a minute piece of junk. The sole reason for I remember it, is that is was made by Holly Carburetor. There were some strange bedfellows in the early days of computers. One of the most memorable printers I worked on the was the Page Printer system made in OKCity. Originally GE, then Honeywell. I'm not certain when it died - sometime after I left in 1986. It used paper on large rolls. There was a little dolly you used to move the paper - the rolls looked like newsprint and were too heavy to carry. It would print a page then had a paper knife that would cut the page from the continuous feed of paper, and move it to a bin. If you printed multiple copies, it would print the same page x times, cut them off and stack them in different hoppers. The paper path was 8-10 feet long and took a lot of hard work to thread each new roll. But the thing that sticks in my mind the most is that it also had a hole punch built in. After printing and cutting, it would also punch holes if you wanted, 2 or 3 per page. I've never seen another printer that could punch holes, not even the Seimens that were the major competitor. The chad was always in demand by people wanting it for parties or weddings. Which brings up something I'm certain others on the list have done = used teletype or other paper tape punch chad for pranks. The oiled paper would stick to anything, and vacuum cleaners wouldn't pick it up. I once left a bag of black and yellow chad where the 6 year old son of a co-worker could find it. (The co-worker had stiffed me for $20.) It took him weeks to get it out of his carpets using tweezers, piece by piece. Anyone else have fun and games with chad? Billy

20 years, 3 months

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Reply: A few oddball items for trade....

by ying6926＠ureach.com

HI Gary I am looking for a piece on pdp 11 front panel, it is the one with four control knobs. Any chance I can get a photo? thanks Henry A few oddball items for trade.... Gary E Kaufman gkaufman at the-planet.org Sun Jun 4 14:15:43 CDT 2006 a.. Previous message: 3 pdp8/a chassis free for pickup b.. Next message: ISO: Wide HVD SCSI SBUS c.. Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have a few oddball items I'd be happy to trade away for things I could use. I can email pictures of any of these. PDP 11/04 Front Panel Vector 4607 protoboards (3 each), PDP 11 style edge connectors SWTPC Ascii Keyboard (no case) early version with diodes for encoding LCD Panel (Sharp LQ12S56) and Keyboard from Dell Latitude CP series And free for postage, PCB from an Exidy Starfire game (eproms are gone). I'm interested in S100 stuff, a Decmate I Keyboard, Nixie and Vacuum tubes etc. - Gary <gkaufman at the-planet.org>

20 years, 3 months

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Pinging Peter Hufnagel

by woyciesjes＠sbcglobal.net

Apologies for this, but I sent Peter H. a direct private message on 5/26. I was just wondering if he's off doing something else, or just ignoring me. ;-) -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 --- AIM - woyciesjes

20 years, 3 months

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looking for two Kennedy 9100 tape drive terminator cards

by henk.gooijen＠oce.com

Well, I am still looking for the terminator cards :-) but I can be a little more specific. The "data terminator" card has part number 3860-001, and the "control terminator" card has part number 3841-001. Can somebody who has a Kennedy 9100 confirm that the card cage at the left side of the tape drive indeed has a card in slot #3 and in slot #8? I want to be sure that I need those two terminator cards, before I spend some money (if a brooker has them in stock)! thanks, - Henk. This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message. Thank you for your cooperation.

20 years, 3 months

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SBC6120 (a build-it-yourself PDP-8 clone) Last Buy and, End ofLife

by doug.jackson＠ewa-australia.com

Chuck said: > So, with the fancy irons with solid-state temperature control > circuitry, is the Weller TC201 now out of fashion? It's been my > faithful compainion for decades--some years ago, I snagged a big batch > of assorted tips from a going-out-of-business sale, so I haven't had > any reason to change just yet. > > But is there something that's tons better? There is no iron better than the TC201!!! None, Not at all, in no way... Had it since I finished my traineeship. The only reason I could imaging is if you are soldering using wierd non-lead solder, then the precise temperature control matters. But there are cases where the TC201 simply doesn't have the thermal mass.... for those cases, never forget the 200W plumbers iron. For all of the electronics I can still see (until my eyesight fails me), my Weller is the answer. Take Care, Doug

20 years, 3 months

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are the IBM PCjr and PC JX cartridge compatible?

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

Anyone know? I'd like to own a JX by the way... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

20 years, 3 months

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Semi-OT: IDE & SATA to USB "dongles"

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Chuck Guzis wrote: Don't forget the old CDC 6603-Bryant disk! My most vivd reminder of hydraulic actuators on CDC gear was on the 821 disk. We were running a benchmark with about eight of these things (connected through a QSE). We knew that one was leaking, but the leak wasn't enough to take the thing offline and we had a few hours invested in setting the benchmark up, so we decided to go with it. ---------------------------------- Billy: Through incredible luck, I never had to work on the Bryants. They always seemed to break on shifts that I didn't work. CDC starting buying them in the early '60s. I actually worked on 1604's with Bryant disks. I think the controller was a 1619. They were horrible to work with, and very hard on the hands. For Indutrial Data Products group, we used a few of the old Bryant drums and single platter fixed disks. STC wrote an OS for these drums in the late '60's. They put them all the world with the tracking stations. Last one I saw that was still running was around 1980. Would love to find one now. The model numbers were 8951 and 8952. One of the most reliable peripherals ever made, some ran for 15 years, 24 hours a day, without any maintenance. ------------------------------------ Chuck: At some point, a message pops up on the console that 821 Unit-so-and-such is offline. I run for the thing, forgetting about the lieak, have my hand out ready to punch the "on/off line" button, hit the puddle of fluid and do a wonderful imitation of a swan dive. I collect myself, punch the button and limp back... ------------------------------------ Billy: I don't place the model 821. There was an 841 that might be what you remember. It had the drives two high in an expandable rack. You kept bolting chassis together and then put end panels on it. It was hydraulic too. And leaked like a sieve. The beauty of the two high is that if the top drive leaked, it would drip on the bottom drive and take it out also. Two for the price of one! Had big ten high platter removeable disk stacks and was used on the 3000 systems with a controller called the 3234. ------------------------------------ Chuck: I REALLY don't miss the old hardware. If I wanted to work with heavy machinery, I'd go back to work in a steel mill. I'm sure that Billy has had his share of digging shredded ribbon out of the type train on a CDC 512 pritner, too. Wonderful rewarding job. Cheers, Chuck ------------------------------------- Billy: The 512 was an abomination. It was a rip off of the IBM 1402. To avoid paying fo patents, Rochester re-invented several wheels. The train used slugs that ran in tracks, but had no direct connection to each other (think about a bunch of ICs in a circular tube). Any wear and the timing changed. So you had to tweak the hammer timing almost daily. It ate ribbons. And if the operators tried to be cheap and use one to the last drop of ink, it would disasseble the ribbon and jam the pieces between the slugs and deep into the hammers. Some times a ribbon change could take an entire shift. It also used a paper tape reader for format control. This nasty little kludge used a sprocket drive on early 512s. When it tore the paper tape, usually late at night, it would high speed slew paper through the printer, jam the output stacker, and sometimes break the hammers. The 512 was probably the most hated peripheral CDC ever produced. Billy

20 years, 3 months

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Repair methods (was Cromemco 3101/Beehive B150 score)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Repair methods (was Cromemco 3101/Beehive B150 score) > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 23:21:04 +0100 (BST) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >> Blech. It's awfully had to do anything *interesting* in Pascal... > >I assume you've enver seen a PERQ running POS ;-) > >-tony Dont know who wrote the first commant about Pascal. My comment is simple. It's a programming language, whatever you do will be interesting or boring in any language. I've seen trash written in every language under the sun and one thing stands out. Trash is trash. Allison

20 years, 3 months

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Old computer stuff with 989102 and 989105 chips

by RLAAG＠PACBELL.NET

Just wondering if anyone has description and pinout of the old 989102 and 989105 I.C. chips???

20 years, 3 months

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looking for two Kennedy 9100 tape drive terminator cards

by henk.gooijen＠oce.com

Hi all, I thought I have a working Kennedy 9100 open reel tape drive ... I copied files to the tape and could .DIR them. The next day it did not work. Today Edward came for a visit, and I demonstrated the tape drive to show how it fails. But now it did work again, though it was 100% successful. Edward checked the card cage inside of the Kennedy 9100 drive. Two boards are probably missing, and it makes sense *if* the tape was one of several in a chain, because missing are slot #3: "data terminator" and slot 8: "control terminator". So, in a multi-drive setup, I assume these two terminator boards go in the last drive. In a single drive setup, these boards should be in that drive. Is this correct? If so, can somebody help me find these two cards ...? thanks, - Henk. This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message. Thank you for your cooperation.

20 years, 3 months

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SBC6120 (a build-it-yourself PDP-8 clone) Last Buy and EndofLife

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: SBC6120 (a build-it-yourself PDP-8 clone) Last Buy and EndofLife > From: William Donzelli <aw288 at osfn.org> > Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 14:49:06 -0400 (EDT) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >> Oh, and anything you want to be reliable...... > >Also, when sockets are used in large quantities, manufacturing yield takes >a dump. We have all mashed a pin or two in our lifetimes, trying to get >something inserted (anyone that hasn't is a liar!). Now multiply that by >several orders of magnitude on the assembly floor. > >ENgineers should try there best to avoid sockets. Period. > >William Donzelli >aw288 at osfn.org I use them where there are programable parts that can't be blasted in circuit. Sometimes when the part used is a temporary sub (74ls for a 74HCT). My preference is machined pin or the better sidewipe when I have to. However my worst experiences are socketed board for failures that were the socket itself. TI and RN made a edgewipe that was the absolute pits for relibility. By edgewipe I mean the narrow edge of the pin not the wider face. I've desocketed 4 NS* MDS controllers that used them both kit and factory and all had no bad parts but plenty of inop sockets. Allison

20 years, 3 months

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Paging Lee Davison...

by philpem＠dsl.pipex.com

Sorry for clogging up folks' bandwidth like this, but I'm trying to get in touch with Lee Davison. Does anyone know if he's still around? I asked him to have a go at fixing my Jupiter Ace a while back, now I want the thing back (to try and fix it myself <VBG>) and he's not replying to my emails (or not receiving them - one or the other)... Lee: can you contact me offlist either on this address or on philpem at philpem.me.uk so we can sort this out? Thanks. -- Phil. | Kitsune: Acorn RiscPC SA202 64M+6G VF+UniPod philpem at dsl.pipex.com | Cheetah: Athlon64 3200+ A8VDeluxeV2 1G+180G http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | Tiger: Toshiba SatPro4600 Celeron700 256M+40G

20 years, 3 months

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Cromemco Dazzler value?

by jcwren＠jcwren.com

What's a Dazzler board set with manuals worth these days? --jc

20 years, 3 months

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question about ELF executable

by bert＠brothom.nl

Hi all, Is there perhaps anyone here that can answer this question? ELF executables have program segment headers, containing a field p_offset that should refer to the offset in the file where the section of data starts. However, regardless what executable I look at, they all seem to contain a header that contains a p_offset = 0. This would mean the absolute start of the file, exactly where the ELF header itself is located. For example, when I do: $ readelf -a /bin/bash |less I get: Program Headers: Type Offset VirtAddr PhysAddr FileSiz MemSiz Flg Align PHDR 0x000034 0x08048034 0x08048034 0x000e0 0x000e0 R E 0x4 INTERP 0x000114 0x08048114 0x08048114 0x00013 0x00013 R 0x1 [Requesting program interpreter: /lib/ld-linux.so.2] LOAD 0x000000 0x08048000 0x08048000 0x837bc 0x837bc R E 0x1000 LOAD 0x084000 0x080cc000 0x080cc000 0x05350 0x09a94 RW 0x1000 DYNAMIC 0x088fa4 0x080d0fa4 0x080d0fa4 0x000d8 0x000d8 RW 0x4 NOTE 0x000128 0x08048128 0x08048128 0x00020 0x00020 R 0x4 GNU_EH_FRAME 0x083790 0x080cb790 0x080cb790 0x0002c 0x0002c R 0x4 The 3rd header contains an p_offset=0. Why? I don't get it. Bert

20 years, 3 months

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IC Sockets was Re: SBC6120 ...

by marvin＠rain.org

Sockets do have their place, but to say no board should be without sockets expresses a *VERY* narrow viewpoint. Many arcade game boards had sockets and gave no end of reliability problems. I would certainly agree that prototype boards probably need sockets, but I would not expand that to a generalization that all boards need sockets. > From: "Alexandre Souza" <alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br> > No board should be without sockets. Period. > > Even in prototype boards, you should use that. They are cheap comparing > to the price of your time for a future problem diagnose, or for the care of > the board in case you need to change one or two ICs. Sockets are cheap, love > them! ;o) >

20 years, 3 months

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SBC6120 (a build-it-yourself PDP-8 clone) Last Buy and End of Life

by bob＠jfcl.com

>woodelf bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca wrote: >I used a PDP8/S once, does that I mean I need to slow the CPU down? The SBC6120 is fully static; you can reduce the clock speed to anything you're comfortable with :-) On a more serious note along these lines - the HD6120 datasheet gives a maximum clock of 5.1MHz, however DEC ran the DECmate (-II/PC278, that is; I don't know about the -I/VT278) at 8MHz. I used to ship 5MHz crystals with the full kits just to be on the safe side, but I've always run mine at 8MHz and I know many other people who have done the same. Never found one that's failed to work at this speed. Does anybody know if DEC was using specially selected 6120s, or is the datasheet just conservative? Bob

20 years, 3 months

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[midatlanticretro] Sad news -- Alan Kotok

by allain＠panix.com

A not-so-subtle reminder to keep my weight down. If you can find a better copy of the picture on this page, http://www-db.stanford.edu/pub/voy/museum/pictures/display/3-3.htm (it's in 'Digital at Work') Alan is the chubbiest guy on the team of 14. see also here for Alan http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell/Digital/timeline/1965-3.htm John A. FYI where on the Stanford page it says: "Does someone recognize the others?" They are (seated) Lydia McKalip, Bill Coburn, Ken Senior, Ken Fitzgerald, Norman Hurst, Harris Hyman (standing) Peter Samson, Leo Gossell, Gordon Bell, Alan Kotok, Russ Doane, Bill Kellicker, Bob Reed, George Vogelsang.

20 years, 3 months

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Altair32-Cromemco Dazzler Pictures

by rcini＠optonline.net

All: I thought that some of you might like to see screen shots of several Cromemco Dazzler games and programs running on the Altair32, sent to me by a long-time contributor to the project: http://www.altair32.com/Altair32links.htm (Scroll down to the "Submitted Files" section). I don't have the working binaries yet but when I do, I will post them. This contributor also added support for the Cromemco joystick through the keyboard. Neat! Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator Web site: <http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/> http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ Web site: http://www.altair32.com/ /***************************************************/

20 years, 3 months

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SBC6120 (a build-it-yourself PDP-8 clone) Last Buy and End of Life

by doug.jackson＠ewa-australia.com

> I wish the fact that the PDP-8 clone can be hooked upto a IDE drive > and you have real PDP-8 TTY I/O was more implied at the time. I would > like to get this clone ( PCB & custiom parts) but I still feel with out > a paper tape reader/punch you just can't do software right with the 8. > PS. And the idea of using a PC for a smart terminal *SUCKS*. I brought one of Bob's boards about 18 months ago, and it works a treat. The board has a fully supported IDE interface that allows it to "just Work" with an IDE drive. If you use an adapter, it will work with a CF Card as well. On the terminal front, being a PDP-8 clone, it does need a console of some description. While it does not provide a current loop interface for the ASR-33, its RS-232 serial just plugs into my VT52. I highly commend this board to anybody considering one. It sure is smaller than the PDP-8i that I played with as a kid. regards Doug -- Doug Jackson, MAIPM, MIEEE Senior Information Security Consultant EWA-AUSTRALIA PO Box 6308 O'Connor ACT 2602 Level 1, 214 Northbourne Ave, Braddon ACT 2612 Tel: +61 (0)2 6230 6833 Fax: +61 (0)2 6230 5833 Mob: +61 (0)414 986 878 http://www.ewa-australia.com ============================================ IMPORTANT: This email remains the property of Electronic Warfare Associates - Australia. If you have received this email in error, you are requested to contact doug.jackson at ewa-australia.com or Ph +61 2 62306833 and delete the email. This message is not to be copied or distributed to other parties without the express permission of the author. Any personal information in this email must be handled in accordance with the Privacy Act 1988 (Cth). ============================================

20 years, 3 months

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How silly can collectors be?

by cheri-post＠web.de

> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Gesendet: 04.06.06 18:34:04 > An: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Betreff: Re: How silly can collectors be? > On Saturday 03 June 2006 15:06, Joost van de Griek wrote: > > On 6/1/06 11:35 PM, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > Ok, so I thought that the prices on the S/370 consoles were silly, but > > > at least you were getting something which was obscure and hard to > > > reproduce. > > > > > > How much is a small piece of aluminum with some lettering on it worth? > > > Aparently, between $125 and $411... > > > > Once something is collectible, value is very hard to establish. While such > > a price for a "small piece of aluminium with some lettering on it" may seem > > outrageous to you, if it is the final missing piece in someone's > > collection, that price may be peanuts compared to the increase of the > > complete collection's value. > > I'd agree with you, but I'm pretty sure that in at least fordkdkk, that's > probably not the case, from what I've learned from other collectors. > > Pat In the above case, I'd say that some people apparently just have too much money and do not really know what to do with it.... Pierre > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCAC --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ > The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org ______________________________________________________________ Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS! Jetzt bei WEB.DE FreeMail: http://f.web.de/?mc=021193

20 years, 3 months

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Sad news -- Alan Kotok

by evan＠snarc.net

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/03/business/03kotok.html

20 years, 3 months

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RCA WO-33A Manual available

by dakotadv＠yahoo.com

Yeah if you have that manual I'm interested ! Thanks ! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

20 years, 3 months

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WTB: Compaq Portable 3 or similar

by trs-80＠cableone.net

Hi all, Still looking for a good working Compaq Portable 3 or similar Compaq "lunchbox" portable... preferably one of the plasma screen models. I believe they also made 286 and 386 versions in these. I'll pay a fair price. Will also consider a Compaq Portable 1 or 2 , the CRT versions, if cheap enough. Let me know... Thanks, Steve trs-80 at cableone.net

20 years, 3 months

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MATE-N-LOK 8p flat connector availability

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Jun 3 2006, 23:09, Tony Duell wrote: > I am looking for a somewhat similar connector. I am not sure if it's > AMP or Molex, but I suspect it's one or the other. > > It has 5 pins in a straight line. The pins look to be the normal > 0.093" ones. The face of the socket housing looks a bit like this: > > > /o\ > |o| > |o| > |o| > |o| > - > > That is, 5 pins in a line, with one end of the housing pointed for > polarisation. I'm pretty sure this isn't AMP, but it looks like a Molex 0.093" Power Connector. A lot of these are made in panel-mount as well as free-hanging styles, but the five-way is only made as free-hanging according to my old Molex catalogue. However, it says there's a mating unshrouded vertical header in their 1840 series, and "vertical headers may be assembled using PC tail terminals in standard housing". The receptacle part is 03-09-1052, it's 27.2mm long x 6.2mm wide; the plug part is 03-09-2052, 30.0mm long x 8.6mm wide. Each pin is rated 9A at 250V in these housings. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 3 months

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ISO: Wide HVD SCSI SBUS

by dgy＠DakotaCom.Net

Hi, I'm looking for two or three HVD wide SCSI SBUS cards to connect some storage arrays to an SS20. Does anyone have any that they would care to part with? Thanks! --don

20 years, 3 months

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A few oddball items for trade....

by gkaufman＠the-planet.org

I have a few oddball items I'd be happy to trade away for things I could use. I can email pictures of any of these. PDP 11/04 Front Panel Vector 4607 protoboards (3 each), PDP 11 style edge connectors SWTPC Ascii Keyboard (no case) early version with diodes for encoding LCD Panel (Sharp LQ12S56) and Keyboard from Dell Latitude CP series And free for postage, PCB from an Exidy Starfire game (eproms are gone). I'm interested in S100 stuff, a Decmate I Keyboard, Nixie and Vacuum tubes etc. - Gary <gkaufman at the-planet.org>

20 years, 3 months

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3 pdp8/a chassis free for pickup

by djg＠pdp8.net

>Joe r. or anybody interested in picking these up in Melbourne fl, please >contact thom at 321-537-2384. They are in reasonable condition, no 8018 >regulators installed. > I'm needing transformer, fans, and power entry module for a chassis I have that does have the regulator. If anybody is willing to ship a chassis or parts to MD for a reasonable handling I would appreciate it. I could also trade for it a G8018 in unknown condition.

20 years, 3 months

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Semi-OT: IDE & SATA to USB "dongles"

by djg＠pdp8.net

>I am not home right now - going thru a pile of stuff I have stored >elsewhere - and came across some logic I am not familiar with. MC5xx from >Motorola ring a bell? > Military temperature range of the MTTL I 4xx series logic. Seems to be 5V TTL but I only have a device selector tables, not full datasheets.

20 years, 3 months

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How silly can collectors be?

by pat＠computer-refuge.org

Ok, so I thought that the prices on the S/370 consoles were silly, but at least you were getting something which was obscure and hard to reproduce. How much is a small piece of aluminum with some lettering on it worth? Aparently, between $125 and $411... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=8817899347 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=8817897605 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=8817901495 Oddly enough, the largest one went for the lowest price, as well. I wonder if IBM would come after me for putting some lettering on some aluminum plates, and selling them on ebay... of course I'd put "replica" somewhere in the fine print of the auction. :) Pat -- Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org

20 years, 3 months

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SBC6120 (a build-it-yourself PDP-8 clone) Last Buy and End of

by bob＠jfcl.com

>ARG 1/2 Size crystal Oscillators, Digit-Key sells them, as does Mouser, and neither has a minimum order. Bob

20 years, 3 months

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3 pdp8/a chassis free for pickup

by trestivo＠tarinc.com

Joe r. or anybody interested in picking these up in Melbourne fl, please contact thom at 321-537-2384. They are in reasonable condition, no 8018 regulators installed.

20 years, 3 months

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Memorex 651 Drive

by bsheldrick＠tridentcomputer.com

Do you have the actual Memorex 651 drive (not the floppy disks)? I'm looking to buy one. Thanks, Bob Sheldrick Trident Computer Corporation 277 Park Drive Troy MI 48083 USA Tel # 248-585-8100

20 years, 3 months

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Semi-OT: IDE & SATA to USB "dongles"

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Tony Duell wrote: So (to get it on-topic for classiccmp), people with machines that only support IDE drives are going to have problems in the future finding working replacements (I doubt very much if any of us could repair any reasonably-modern IDE drive, alas). I've seen adapters to use IDE drives on SATA hosts, but not the reverse. Oh well... Looks like designing an ST506 (host) to IDE (drive) interface is not going to be a particularly useful thing. Better to work out a way to keep the old ST506s/412s/etc working. -tony ------------------------------------------------------ I'm lost in your logic here. ST506 and 412 have been obsolete for 15 years. They will become harder and harder to find and keep working. If you are trying to keep the old systems running, you will eventually have to do a dongle of some sort with newer drives. Why not now? Keeping the old drives working is going to require parts and technology that don't exist commercially any more. You can still find the high volume circuitry in the surplus stores. But it's the heads and platters that wear out and ferrite heads and oxide media are gone. Occasional bits and pieces show up less and less often. Why not put the energy into adapting the latest drive technology? That buys you an extra decade or so. IDE drives are going to be around in far greater volumes long after the last ST506 is still working. I just had a report that last year was the biggest year ever for hard drives: 376 million units, the huge majority IDE. That gives a pool of drives to use that will outlast most of us on this list. And there are already IDE to SATA dongles to stretch out another generation. And there are the side issues to keeping the old systems going. How long will we be able to find 8" and 5.25" media? Printer ribbons? Rubber parts for teletypes and typewriters? When do you toss in the towel on trying to keep the old systems going? One of my other hobbies is amateur publishing. We used Gestener mimeograph machines. The machines are easy to keep running. But I haven't been able to buy any stencils in the last 5 years. A place in India made them until around 2000. Now it's just the odd cache that shows up on eBay every 4-6 months. The ink we've tried to make ourselves with a little success. And of course, the twiltone paper is long gone. Modern paper is too slick and non-absorbent. When we get a mimeo going, it still looks like crap because of the poor ink and paper. So I wonder again, when do we give up on keeping the old machines running? If my CDC 160-A memory goes, there's no more core memories. My Jetex engines don't have fuel any more. My old typewriters have platens that turn to powder if I try to type. Some time, we have to let go and upgrade as much as it is unaesthetic or displeasing. When? Billy

20 years, 3 months

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Creating new CP/M disk from scratch

by rcini＠optonline.net

All: I'm having trouble locating someone (anyone) who has a bootable 5.25" single-density diskette suitable for my VersaFloppy controller. So, I was wondering the following. What if I setup an old PC with a 5.25" drive and use 22DISK to prepare a disk and move CP/M 2.2 .COM files to it from the PeeCee. Then, I would have to figure out how to get the cold-start loader onto the disk. Does this sound like a viable scenario? Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator Web site: <http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/> http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ Web site: http://www.altair32.com/ /***************************************************/

20 years, 3 months

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SBC6120 (a build-it-yourself PDP-8 clone) Last Buy and End of Life

by bob＠jfcl.com

>So what is RoHs? Short answer - it will be illegal and criminal to sell products containing lead (and many other hazardous substances) in the EU after July 1. This, in particular, means the traditional lead/tin solder. Google for RoHS. You'll find plenty of matches. Bob

20 years, 3 months

6
6
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What is this ? NCR Panel

by rborsuk＠colourfull.com

Hi All, Anyone have information on what this is: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8822142523 I tried doing some googling for it but didn't really turn up anything. Rob Rob Borsuk email: rborsuk at colourfull.com Colourfull Creations Web: http://www.colourfull.com

20 years, 3 months

1
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SBC6120 (a build-it-yourself PDP-8 clone) Last Buy and End of Life

by bob＠jfcl.com

> thought that 6120's just _weren't available_ I've purchased 6120 chips several times since introducing the SBC6120; it's never been a problem to get them. There are old IC jobbers out there that will find anything, for a price. The problem has always been that the minimum order is 50-100 pieces and several thousands of dollars. And please, don't everybody start calling old IC jobbers asking for 6120 chips now. A) They won't sell you just one, and b) you'll just make 'em think 6120 chips are valuable and the prices will go even higher. Bob

20 years, 3 months

1
0
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SBC6120 (a build-it-yourself PDP-8 clone) Last Buy and End of Life

by bob＠jfcl.com

>Are you saying that using a PC for a terminal is required for this board??? An ASCII RS-232 terminal is required, yes. Use any kind you like; it doesn't have to be a PC. Bob

20 years, 3 months

1
0
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MO support

by dgy＠DakotaCom.Net

Hi, I have several (different) MO drives -- including a small jukebox. But, it seems that most OS's don't have support for them -- usually the BLOCKSIZE != 512 issue is the killer. Amusingly, *Windows* seems to talk to all of them (but that is my last choice!). I believe Linux will, as well (but I don't want to run Linux). [I think I would prefer to get them running under Solaris or NetBSD] So, given that these devices have been around for ages, what was talking to them? Thanks, --don

20 years, 3 months

8
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Semi-OT: IDE & SATA to USB "dongles"

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Tony Duell wrote: How can you possiibly tell me what I enjoy and what I don't? If you don't like gabbing a soldering iron and 'scope and diving into the logic fine, but don't try to critisse those of us who do. -tony ----------------------------------------------------- Tony, I am not telling you what you enjoy or don't. I was simply commenting on your many many statements that troubleshooting to a component level is your belief in the right way to do things. If you feel I was criticizing, then I apologize for my comments. I was merely saying that I don't understand why you can't do both: fix old time computers and be intimate with the latest and greatest. Both are fun. If you are interested in only one aspect of the hobby, more power to you. It's your life. As for my likes, yes I use a soldering iron and oscilloscope every day. As play, I also design using TTL and linear, though usually with a wire wrap gun instead of solder. For example, I spent last weekend repairing a batch of HP180 oscilloscopes that had sat in the garage for 20 years. As far as I know, I have the oldest working computer on this list - built in 1962. Several list members have seen it in operation. Al K is busy archiving the software and manuals for the benefit of the list. But I also love my G4's and have ordered a Quad G5. I use a laptop constantly, and see nothing wrong with playing with the latest offerings from Microsoft. It's all a big game. Why not play with the entire genre? Billy

20 years, 3 months

3
3
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Semi-OT: IDE & SATA to USB "dongles"

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

Semi-OT: IDE & SATA to USB "dongles" > >John Allain wrote: > >>Personally, I don't think continuous duty at all for anything >10y-o. >> I do my best work on my IBM 5160; it has gotten continuous use for >> nearly two decades. > My DEC PWS 433au is right at about 10 years and gets continuous use. >The idea is if it dies, and nobody can get another, then you are the one who killed it. >There are counterarguments I guess, like that CRTs >and electrolytics need at >least some periodic duty to keep them up, but for me >that's actually about 1 >week a year, hardly continuous. >John A. Is there a statute against murdering classic puters? Well there should be! 25 TO LIFE!! LOL LOL LOL. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

20 years, 3 months

2
1
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VAX 8700 system needs a new home

by rybskip＠idcnet.com

Dear Friends, I am a new member to the CCList but have long been a user and collector of classic computers. At present, I am trying to find a home for a Digital Equipment Corporation VAX 8700, sporting one high-density (6250 BPI) tape drive and three disk drives, along with the the desktop console unit without display. I will be happy off-list to provide details to the board level on the CPU and, of course, the model numbers of the peripherals, to anyone interested in acquiring the system at NO COST save the expense of shipping (or, if you pick the system up yourself, just the cost of renting the van and driving to and from Whitewater, WI, to pick it up). The system was in operation until decommissioned in the early 1990's and is missing only the "under-the-floor" power interconnect module. McIntyre Computer Exchange in Michigan has expressed an interest in acquiring this unit, but I would rather put it in the hands of collectors who would want to keep it out of a landfill. Please write back directly to me off-list if you are interested. Yours, cordially, Paul Rybski -- ________________________________________ Paul M. Rybski, Ph.D. Associate Professor and Chair, Dept. of Physics, and Director, Whitewater Observatory Goodhue 320 University of WI-Whitewater Whitewater, WI 53190-1790 Office FAX: (262) 472-5633 Email address: rybskip at uww.edu "The mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be ignited." Plutarch "He bid them look at the sky and lift their faces to the stars." Ovid "To develop the genuine understanding of concepts and theories that underlie [declarative] knowledge, the college student, no less than the elementary school child, must engage in deductive and inductive mental activity coupled with interpretation of personal observation and experience. Unfortunately, such activity is rarely induced in passive listeners; but it can be nurtured, developed, and enhanced in the majority of students, providing it is experientially rooted and not too rapidly paced, and providing the mind of the learner is actively engaged." Arnold Arons (1983)

20 years, 3 months

4
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Name this Z80 assembler?

by glen.slick＠gmail.com

Does anyone recognize a Z80 assember that would produce listings with this header on the top of each page: "LOC OBJ CODE M STMT SOURCE STATEMENT" The listing in this document I found online matches the source code format and listing format of the assembler I'm looking for: http://www.lc80.de/download/lc80-monitor_rom.pdf I don't just want to assemble some Z80 code, I can find plenty of assemblers to do that. I want to find one that I can use to exactly recreate a hardcopy listing of some particular Z80 code without any changes to the source code format and output listing format.

20 years, 3 months

4
3
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DSSI and StorageWorks questions

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

I'm still trying to hack together a HSD05AA SBB into my VAX 4200 (I know there are better ways to do this, but my budget is about $20 so getting a SCSI-equipped VAX or DSSI cables are somewhat out of the question). 2 questions: (1) in the HD50 -> MR cable (BC29R), is it wired 1-1, 2-2 . . . 50-50 ? (2) Will the StorageWorks stuff operate with a "faked" backplane consisting of power + SCSI signals? I took apart a SBB sled to check the pinout, and it has some species of PAL in there, not sure how that interfaces with things.

20 years, 3 months

2
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Semi-OT: IDE & SATA to USB "dongles"

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Tony duell wrote: This is about as sensible as saying that 'pianos and guitars are musical instruments, if you enjoy playing one you _must_ necessarily enjoy the other'. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Billy: I don't think I used the word "must" in my comments. But certainly many musicians enjoying playing both, my youngest daughter included. And I was talking about using, playing with, understanding, etc. I like a good tear down as much as the next guy. In fact, this discussion has prodded me into doing something I've put off for a long time - strip some PCBs I found with 8ns CMOS static RAMs, 128Kx8. They are surface mount and the small geometries are a real challenge for my twisted fingers and bifocal eyes. But I have a project that needs fast memory and the weekend is free.) Last weekend was at the TRW flea market. Anybody else on the list from the LA/OC area? Let me know. Maybe we can meet up at the next one. (I scored a Microtek 9600XL scanner for $40. I've been looking for a wide bed scanner for months and saw this one on the way out. Put it on an old G4 running OS 8.6 and it came right up. Slow as hell though - you can literally go make a cup of coffee while it does a full 12"x17" scan. But it will be ideal to copy a lot of the old A3 size manuals.) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Tony Duell: To be honest, I am not a 'computer person'. I don't much enjoy programming. I'm an electronics/mechanical person. I like tinkering with hardware, but it computers, radios, cameras, clocks, whatever. So I could turn your statement round and say 'Well, you enjoy working on your 1962 mainframe, why don't you strip down an M-series Leica. It's all machinery after all' -tony ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Billy: A big difference between us then. I have loved computers since my very first one, an IBM 650 in 1958. In the Army, I did some mortar tracking computers so had to work with analogue computers as well as digital. Programming is like doing puzzles: a little is a lot of fun but a lot is no fun at all. Strip a Leica? Well if I can find a cheap one, I might do it. I have done dozens of MP3 players in the last year, and a Canon and JVC camcorder. Though it is not so much a tear down as reverse engineering. If the Leica uses a 1" drive, then I'll definitely put it on the list. Cameras are fun - I get to buy new tools to work on them. I like machinery less than computers but still putz around. That's partly why I specialized in peripherals for the last 30 years. Besides, the super computers were dying and the minis just weren't as much fun. But even peripherals can be too much mechanical for me sometimes. Anyone on the list ever work on an IBM-1311 or CDC 807/808 or CDC 813/814? All of these featured hydraulic actuators. A face full of warm pressurized hydraulic fluid is enough to convince even the most die hard GOM that electronics has advantages. (GOM is how they used to refer to us peripheral types - Greasy Ol' Mechanics.) If you like electro-mechanical, then perhaps you share another interest: Meccano. I always liked Erector sets until I saw my first Meccano set. I realized then that the US sets were shoddy wanabees. I've been a collector and user of Meccano since the early 70's, when I first met them. There's still a #10 set in the hall closet, though it is probably incomplete now. At the Museum where Al K. works is a beautiful Babbage Difference Engine built out of Red/Green Meccano. It's a gorgeous piece of machinery - works of course. I wish I had that much ambition and skill. Anyone on the list seen it (besides Al)? Billy

20 years, 3 months

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Semi-OT: IDE & SATA to USB dongles

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

what about compact flash drives, which are IDEish in nature. Im all for authenticity, but if a solution presents itself, and Ill add one that may not be as volatile as magnetic media, Im equally gung-ho. Hey lookit, I just became a ho LOL LOL. Albeit cflash cards are themselves being phasored out (in favor of the smaller sd and xd nuisances). But theyre very cheap too...128megs ~ $10. Or 1gig for 25 after a rebate. --- cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > > So (to get it on-topic for classiccmp), people with machines that > > > only support IDE drives are going to have problems in the future > > > finding working replacements (I doubt very much if any of us could > > > repair any reasonably-modern IDE drive, alas). I've seen adapters to > > > use IDE drives on SATA hosts, but not the reverse. > > > > FWIW, all of the failures I've seen in an IDE drive were failures in the > > HDA, not in the electronics. "Boardswapping" a new board onto most IDE > > Sure, but the HDAs are not exactly home-repairable either. > > > drives is trivial if you have a couple spares of the same drive, if > > there's really a problem with the electronics. I know that may not > > But as you said, the electroncis is rarely the problem. > > One caveat in doing this is that I beleive some drives stored HDA > parameters (bad block lists, etc) in non-volatile memory on the logic > board. Swapping boards between seemingly identical drives won't always work. > > > appeal to you, Tony, but most of us don't have the ability or spare > > time to repair surface mount electronics... :) > > Having looked at some IDE drives I am not sure I do either. Very fine > pitch connections (tht I probably could solder if I had to) and nasty > ASICs that I can't get and don't understand. I would attempt to replace > standard components if I could prove that was the problem. > > > > > Anyhow, there's enough new products being designed with IDE hard drives > > in them, that IDE will still be around for at least 5 years if not > > much, much more... > > 5 years is not that long. > > -tony > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

20 years, 3 months

3
3
0 0

atari printers

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Jun 3 2006, 0:41, Tony Duell wrote: > On Jun 2 2006, 9:32, Joe R. wrote: > > I've seen a crude but effective method of cutting gears by > > turning a shaft of the desired od and then mounting it horzontally > > on a verticle milling machine so that it can turn freely. Then > > mount a TAP vertiaclly in the headstock and spin it slowly and > > then moving it slowly in against the shaft. > THis is related to a gear cutting method called 'hobbing'. A real > hobbign machine has the blank mounted on a spindle that's geared to > the cutter spindle by the appropriate ratio. And you use a hob, not > a tap -- the differenece being that the cutting edges are a > different shape. > > The advantage of this method is that you only need one cutter for a > particular pitch of gear, no matter how many teeth you want to cut. > > If you use the other method you've suggested, you, in theory, need a > different milling cutter for each number of teeth, since you're actually > cutting the spaces between the teeth (not the teeth themselves), and the > shape of the space varies with the number of teeth on the gear. In > practice, there are typically 8 cutters to cover the range from 10 teeth > to a rack (the last one typically goes from 135 teeth upwards, all the > way to a rack which is an 'infinite number of teeth' if you think about > it). But those cutters are not cheap -- I've been quoted \pounds 45.00 > each (not for a set of 8, for one cutter) for the sort of size you'd need > here. There's a third method which gives reasonably-shaped gear teeth, but only needs one cutter. It's based on the idea that the teeth in a rack are straight-sided. The cutter is like a short length of a rack (think of the side view) rotated around its long axis to make a cylindrical cutter. It's easy to make such a cutter by turning a bar in a lathe, using a V-point tool to cut the valleys so you end up with something like a ribbed cylinder. Then mount the cylinder in a dividing head, and mill or cut narrow slots along the length to form the front faces of the teeth, and finally apply some relief to these teeth by milling or grinding away part of the back of each. _ _ _ _ _ _ / \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \ side view | |__ | _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _| _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ <-- hole through centre for arbor | __| | _ _ _ _ _ | \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ You mount the cutter on an arbor (easiest to make it that way to start with), and put your gear blank under it in a dividing head, such that it will cut both sides of what will be the uppermost tooth (with a normal cutter, you form one gap at a time between two teeth, with this you form the two sides of one tooth between two gaps). You'll find that for gears with a reasonable number of teeth, it cuts one tooth in the centre to full deptth, but cuts part of the teeth to either side, and for large gears, two more either side of those. The point is that as you cut one tooth, the ones either side get their profiles modifed to something much more like an involute form than a straight form. It works well, and I've cut replacement gears for a few things like that, mostly out of nylon, brass, or aluminium. It doesn't give a perfect involute tooth form, of course, but it's close enough for most purposes. If you want a better shape, you can smooth out the curves with a swiss file. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 3 months

1
0
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TRW Swap Meet, was Re: Semi-OT: IDE & SATA to USB "dongles"

by marvin＠rain.org

I'm from Santa Barbara (close enough though) and have been attending the TRW swap meet for about the past 10 years or so. I share a couple of spots with CARA in G22/G24, so chances are we've seen/met each other but I am not putting a face with a name right now :). The next one in June is Field Day weekend, but I do plan on being there. So stop by and say hi!!! > From: "Billy Pettit" <Billy.Pettit at wdc.com> > Last weekend was at the TRW flea market. Anybody else on the list from the > LA/OC area? Let me know. Maybe we can meet up at the next one. (I scored

20 years, 3 months

1
0
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Pens for Atari, CBM and TRS plotters (was: atari printers)

by marvin＠rain.org

Something I haven't tried (yet) but is worth a shot is to use the same ink used in stamp pads since that is easily available and it is available in a variety of colors. > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > One solution might be to obtain the ink and pen from a strip recorder and > fit it to the plotter. These don't dry out as quickly and can be easily > unclogged with a small cleaning wire. > > Cheers, > Chuck

20 years, 3 months

1
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