- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by cclist＠sydex.com

I was helping a fellow with a writeup on the CDC STAR-100 (circa 1974) and stumbled across some of the old manuals on bitsavers. You know, back in 1975, the machine was arguably the fastest in the world (I won't get into benchmark results, but it was definitely in competition with Cray). I'd forgotten that the maximum memory available was a megaword (64-bit words) and that standard was half a meg. Back around then, being able to run linpack really fast mattered a lot--and gave rise to oddball ventures like Saxpy (the company, not the subroutine, although the two are not unrelated). Consider that that's 8MB by today's standards, barely enough to host Windows 98. On the other hand, the CPU is still pretty complex by today's standards--and we had 256 64-bit registers to work with. I guess it's like one's childhood home. When you return decades later to visit, you can't get over how SMALL everything seems. Cheers, Chuck

20 years

3
3
0 0

Mercury cells (was e: Sharp PC-1211)

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On 8/31/06, Roy J. Tellason <rtellason at verizon.net> wrote: > On Tuesday 29 August 2006 09:02 pm, Josef Chessor wrote: > > mercury cells. Today, since they're illegal in the US from what I > > understand, > > Are they? Anybody know for sure? I know they were hard to find last time I > looked (over a decade ago) but there were some out there... In 1995, I was unable to buy mercury cells for my Konica 35mm SLR. I _was_ able to find a set at a store in Christchurch, NZ. Dunno if they are still legal there or not. -ethan

20 years

2
2
0 0

Can anyone here burn a MMI6309 PROM for a Lisa?

by death69inc＠sbcglobal.net

seen a real old post about chip programming noticed you had a data i/o 29b I have been looking for information abtou this programmer as I am looking into buy a porgrammer and everyone keeps telling me I shoudl ge thtis type with a unipak 2b but seems noone will tell me what I will need to use this system as in drivers ....front end since data i/o no longer give help for this item I must rely on someone that has one to help me out ...there are a few on ebay and im thinking of getting one but none of the sellers are the users so can not tell me anythign about them other than they passed self tests... either way if there is anyway you can help me out least maybe tell mewhere drivers and or front end can be downloaded or somthign would be great.. thanks chris

20 years

1
0
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more found boards

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Roy J. Tellason wrote: Got one 8-bit card here that also has an internal edge connector and I'm guessing it's a floppy interface -- there's a crystal, one big chip labeled Zilog Z765APS and what I'm guessing is a data separator chip socketed, looks like UM8326, and a bunch of LSTTL glue logic. ------------------------------------ Billy: Very likely - the Z765 was a cross license chip from NEC. I think they got the best of the deal, being able to use Zilog cores. The 765 never impressed me. --------------------------------------- Got one which is an 8-bit card only there's a little sticker near the card edge connector that says "pls plug into the 16 bits slot only" -- why would they do that? This one has a DB25M on the metal bracket, which is also labeled "Scanner Interface", is this supposed to be some kind of crude SCSI? There are a couple of chips labeled "SPOT" (a logo actually), and silkscreened on the board it says "SPOT Fototak 2E-Card". The note on the bag says "Parallel port" but I'm not sure that means anything. About four chips on the board (2 of which look like RAM) and a jumper block, 2x3 with 2 on there. ----------------------------------------- Billy: This sounds like the primitive SCSI that a lot of scanner folks would send out with the early scanners. PCs had moved over to IDE, so a lot of low cost systems didn't have native SCSI boards. Adaptec made a slew of these. Even new and at that time, you could find them at Fry's for $12-15. I remember seeing a few of them with the early external CD burners. Many were SCSI, at least up to the 8X level. Then ATA won, again demonstrating that cheap beats capability every time. ----------------------------------------------- The next one is labeled (in the foil) "ICS2110 Demo Board Rev. A" and sure enough there seems to be a square socketed chip labeled ICS2110 in there. An array of eight of what I'm guessing are RAM, some LSTTL, two 8-pole DIP switches, and four jumper blocks with one jumper on each. A TDA1545 ("Stereo Continuous Calibration DAC"), a couple of NE5532 op amp chips, a whole mess of capacitors, two trimpots (?) and two of what appear to be audio jacks at the metal bracket. This one's a 16-bit card. The last one is also a 16-bit card. On the metal brack is a 50-pin connector (same thing you'd see on an Adaptec 1520, 1540, etc.) and on the opposite end is a 4-pin "drive power" (like in any PC) connector for power to apparently be supplied_to_ the card, a small button ("tac" switch), and a 2x5 pin shrouded connector. And across the top of the card is a big 2.4 ohm 10W (!) power resistor, not the sort of thing I'm used to seeing on "PC" hardware. This one's all surface mount, and the one square chip in there is marked "Altera", not a name I'm at all familiar with. No other markings on the board except a sticker hiding under that big resistor with a barcode and a rather long number on it. ------------------------------------------------ Billy: I'm guessing on this one. The big resistor sounds like a current source for some sort of burner. Altera is a programmable logic company. I wonder if you have one of their early programmers? The programmers had two parts, the PCB and another box with ZIF sockets external to the PCB. The cables were about 24 inches long, but I remember them as plugged into Molex connectors. Can you get us some photos? Might bring back more accurate memories. -------------------------------------------------- Anybody know what these are, any of them?

20 years

2
1
0 0

Need 8 Bit VGA for PC XT 5160

by mbbrutman-cctalk＠brutman.com

I have a beautiful 5160 XT with 512KB, 10MB hard disk, monochrome card and a 5151 display. To make the machine slightly more useful I'd like to find a VGA card that will run in an 8 bit slot. CGA would be more original, but I can't fit another monitor in the office. I can connect the XT to my 20" flat panels through their VGA connectors, which is perverse in a way but it will work ... That way I have room for the 5151 as well. If you have such a beast or can at least tell me what to look for I'd appreciate it. I read the list religiously, but replies that are not interesting to everybody else should go to me off-list. Mike http://www.brutman.com/PCjr PS: I've got a 3COM Etherlink II (3C503) and software ready to go .. this baby is going on IBM's internal network! :-)

20 years

5
5
0 0

Floppy disk sizes ( was Re: Compaq Portable III fails POST? )

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

--- Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote: > On Mon, 21 Aug 2006, Don wrote: > > I think 8.00 is the *last* that will fit on a 5" > floppy. > > 8.04 requires 3" floppies -- though I haven't > checked to see if > > 3.5" I used 3" drives with a Compaq, but eventual ly > switched to 3.5" > > Huh? 3" floppies too! That means there are 5 different floppy disk sizes that I now know of: 3" 3.5" 5" 8" 12" (used on a special Sony Laservision machine) Are there any more?? Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

20 years

13
30
0 0

Question about Z80 ISA bus board

by bob099＠centurytel.net

Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:06:30 >From: "Joe R." <rigdonj at cfl.rr.com> >Subject: Re: Question about Z80 ISA bus board >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20060831180630.0f97b98c at pop-server.cfl.rr.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I don't know about this particular board but several companies did build >Z-80 boards to fit into a PC an allow you to run CPM. I used to have one >made by Baby Blue or some such. > > Joe > > >At 08:16 PM 8/30/06 -0500, you wrote: > > >>Hope to generate less heat this time. >> >>Full length ISA card, XT card edge connection, DB 37 male connector, >>Z80B, 8 4164's, 2 2764's, 2 Mostek MK4801AN-4's, MC1420B, 10 MHZ >>crystal, and a handful of 74LSxxx glue chips. Only identification >>lettering is "BETRONIX = SWEDEN=PC84" >> >> >>Anyone have an ideal what it could be? Betronix made circuit board >>layout software. >> >> >> Looks like my choice is to dig up an ISA bus machine and plug it in and see what happens.

20 years

1
0
0 0

Calculators on desktops (was Re: Octal)

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

--- M H Stein <dm561 at torfree.net> wrote: > > Well, of course you'd use whatever you like and ru ns > in the OS of your > choice, but it's interesting to note how many peop le > still use a "real" > calculator when there's probably one on the screen > in front of them, > not to mention a spreadsheet program; every office > user I visit still > has a calculator on his/her desk... > Yeah, but it's often hidden. Until a few months ago I had no idea there was a Calculator available on Windows 2K (the company I work for generally uses Windows from 5 years ago as we have loads of computers to pay licenses for?). A work colleague who's into computers (mainly modern stuff, but I did get a twinkle in his eye when I mentioned about the Dragon 32 once and he went on about how he used them at college/university in the 80's) showed me how to find it. It's hidden (along with other applications) in the "sys32/" (?) directory somewhere in the OS files (I'm no windows expert, though I know W95 beta version inside out from when I went on work experience). Now whenever I need it and it's not listed under applications (we move about alot in the lab and use diff computers each week), I just do a quick filesearch, dump it on the desktop and on the main drop-up (?) menu that appears when you click on the Start button, incase I have a screen full of windows. Now almost everyone uses it (largely because calc's are so hard to find in the lab). The "scientific" mode includes binary, octal, hex and decimal, aswell as proper maths functions. Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

20 years

2
1
0 0

C64 Packet carts

by jdaviscctalk＠soupwizard.com

On Mon, August 28, 2006 3:27 pm, William Donzelli wrote: ... > As for Ebay - I tried selling some packet stuff over the past few > months, and buyers were not much around. > > -- > Will What a coincidence - this morning I started looking into what I'd need to get into packet radio. There's a couple of hams here who'll help me out, I have no license, equipment, or anything (except computers). What packet stuff do you have available ? (reply via email, as I suspect this is OT) On-topic, though, is that I wanted to use some of my vintage computing gear to do packet radio (too bad I missed those c64 carts - that'd be a hoot!). I was trying to think of what to do with an old machine that would be productive, and packet radio popped in my head. I have an old Sun 3/80 or a Sparcstation 10 I could set up. Is there any packet software for old 68k macs (I have a clean mac II that's begging to be used for something). jdavis

20 years

7
7
0 0

C64 Packet carts

by kelly＠catcorner.org

> Actually, one reason I've never got into packet radio is a lack of > information one the internals of the TNC. I've not found an > 'open' one -- > as in published schematics and ROM source listings. try www.tapr.org TNC1 comes with rom listings and schematics. Maybe it is missing something...

20 years

2
1
0 0

Mercury cells (was e: Sharp PC-1211)

by wbblair3＠yahoo.com

> > > > mercury cells. Today, since they're illegal in the US from what I > > > > understand, > > > Are they? Anybody know for sure? I know they were hard to find last > > > time I looked (over a decade ago) but there were some out there... > > In 1995, I was unable to buy mercury cells for my Konica 35mm SLR. I > > _was_ able to find a set at a store in Christchurch, NZ. Dunno if they are > > still legal there or not. > > Yes, according to Camera & Camera (big local camera store in Auckland) > they're still legal and available here (NZ). They can no longer be sold in the US because of their mercury content. However, when I was investigating some time ago if there were any compatible substitutes for the mercury cell used in the metering system of an old Yashicamat 124 medium format camera I owned, the use of type AC675E zinc-air cells was recommended. Someone made an adapter/holder for these modern cells which was the same form factor as the old mercury cells and intended for camera owners in this situation. This might give you a lead on where to look. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

20 years

2
1
0 0

Sharp PC-1211

by THX1138＠dakotacom.net

Hi, I've a Sharp PC-1211 with CE-122 "Printer & Cassette Interface". But, I'll be damned if I can figure out how to make the printer *work*! It advances paper when manually commanded to do so. But, I can't figure out how to get the 1211 to print *to* it! Thanks! --don

20 years

9
12
0 0

IBM 5630

by marvin＠rain.org

An IBM 5630 has been listed on VCM free for pickup. It includes: Expansion cabin, 8" Diskette Changer, 2 X Reel to Reel tape drives, 2 X Line printers http://www.vintagecomputermarketplace.com/

20 years

2
1
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A tree to grow (Was: Statement & apology (was Re: 10 Year Rule))

by dm561＠torfree.net

--------Original message: Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 20:27:47 +0200 From: "Hans Franke" <Hans.Franke at siemens.com> Subject: A tree to grow (Was: Statement & apology (was Re: 10 Year Rule)) <snip> what I found was a small group of rather unique and mature people. People that did have a real life, quite a difference to some tight bean counters often found. This rich vault of knowledge not only includes profound computer knowledge, but was eualy visible when the topics discussed went astray. ... And even the most firce discusion about weapons or cars came in a natural way all back sooner or later to our core topic. <snip> --------Reply: Well, as is usually the case, some of the people who later join a list are not always as serious or mature as the founders... So, if I understand you, you're saying that discussions about weapons, cars, etc. are OK on this list and will eventually die on their own, but we definitely need a "RULE" to make sure that none of this "vault of knowledge" is made available to someone with a computer manufactured after August 1996? You're not worried that allowing discussions of the relative merits of a Luger vs. a Glock will turn this list into a weapons forum, as some people are about new-ish computers? Hans, I respect you enormously, but this is just silly. And as far as Jay being some kind of autocratic czar, _obviously_ from time to time this list needs someone with some authority and control to step in and get things back on track (unfortunately). If we need a rule (for what they're worth) I think the only relevant one is that discussions here have something to do with *COMPUTERS*! Considering the disdain prevailing here for users of PCs and anything from Seattle, I'd think that anyone asking how to install XP Home on his Athlon will either be ignored or quickly taken off-list; what are you guys getting so exercised and anal about? mike -------------- "Doing it right is no excuse for not meeting the schedule." (Unknown)

20 years

2
1
0 0

Imaging DEC uVAX MFM drives

by oldcpu＠rogerwilco.org

Paul Thompson wrote: > On Wed, 30 Aug 2006, J Blaser wrote: > >> >> At this point the system just hangs right there. I never get any >> kind of login prompt or any other messages. Looks like it's really >> wanting some NFS volumes that no longer are available. >> > > I suggest booting single user mode. You look to be 99% booted and > perhaps someone doesn't have a getty turned on the console. > > I have a mips ultrix machine so my console doesn't work the same, but > google around some. It would be BOOT/R5:00000001 DKAxxx or something > similar. I have a boot manual around somewhere if google isn't > forthcoming. > I'll give that a try. I don't have any information on the various boot options/parameters, and am just winging this as I go. I'll try your command for kicks, as well as google around some before I pester you for the boot manual info. Thanks. Also, your reference to a MIPS ULTRIX machine is of interest, since another system I have that is in sequence for investigation is a DECsystem 5400 with an RF215(IIRC right now) expansion box. I sadly see that NetBSD is not available for this machine, but if I can recover Ultrix from it safely, then I might have some joy. Jared

20 years

1
0
0 0

Anyone recognize this board?

by aek＠bitsavers.org

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280023622647 It's NOT a Qniverter.

20 years

3
2
0 0

QIC 80 drive needed

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

I am engaged in a Personal IRIS troubleshooting attempt with a gentleman from B.C. (via the Internet) and he happened to drop that he had a A/UX tape that he could not read as his tape drive had "gone goo" It turns out to be A/UX 1.1 (!) Does anyone here nearish to BC have a working QIC-80 so we can get this thing backed up? Barring that, how about dimensions on roller tyres?

20 years

2
1
0 0

Anyone recognize this board?

by kossow＠computerhistory.org

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280023622647 It's NOT a Qniverter.

20 years

1
0
0 0

Octal

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Octal > From: M H Stein <dm561 at torfree.net> > Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 11:13:38 -0400 > To: "'cctalk at classiccmp.org'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >----------Original message(s): > >Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 16:14:14 +1200 >From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> >Subject: Re: Octal > >>> M H Stein wrote: >>> >>> I've found the Windows Calculator to be the most convenient >>> (nicer keyboard & display and doesn't take any desk space). >>> mike > >>I prefer 'dc', the calculator program that comes with UNIX - it does >>different radix inputs and outputs, and uses RPN, plus, I _always_ >>have a UNIX shell handy (and almost never have a real calculator or a >>Windows box in front of me). > >Well, of course you'd use whatever you like and runs in the OS of your >choice, but it's interesting to note how many people still use a "real" >calculator when there's probably one on the screen in front of them, >not to mention a spreadsheet program; every office user I visit still >has a calculator on his/her desk... Lesse, While the calc on my NT4 box has most of the right stuff it doesn't do logic (AND, OR, XOR, NOT) and if I ask for a "tape" the printer is at the other side of the room. Feh! Often I need the result when NOT at a PC. ><snip> >>I miss my old Sharp 4-banger with the flourescent digits. I have the >>parts in a bag, but it needs some serious plastic reconstruction - I >>think the plasticizer was all baked out - the case is seriously >>brittle. > >>-ethan > >That raises an interesting question: does anyone know of any substance >that actually "revitalizes" brittle plastic? None. In a few cases I used the old parts to cast new. Allison

20 years

1
0
0 0

Octal

by dm561＠torfree.net

-----------Original message(s): Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 22:17:22 -0700 From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> Subject: Re: Octal >>On 8/30/2006 at 9:45 PM woodelf wrote: >>I find computer calculator programs a pain. >Depends on the calculator. I use this one all of the time and would love >to have it in a nice little handheld: >http://www.bias.at/Download/english/calcdle.htm >But it does the job right now. >Cheers, >Chuck --------Reply: Looks quite interesting, but does it do hexadecimal? Talk to Don, maybe he can whip one up for ya for a price :-) mike

20 years

2
1
0 0

Octal

by dm561＠torfree.net

-----------Original message: Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 21:45:23 -0600 From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> Subject: Re: Octal >I find computer calculator programs a pain. That's a pretty sweeping statement; their keyboard and display are as good as the one you use every day, cut and paste is often handy for avoiding entry errors and you don't have another item on your (non-virtual) desktop; best of all, if you don't like anything out there you could presumably create your own. I am curious: what exactly is it that you don't like about them? >In fact it is hard to find a good calculator - read >nice display -- good keyboard. You don't find that >with the $5 calculator market. I'm obviously less demanding; I'm quite happy with my $1.00 calculator: nice large LCD display, full size keys and solar-powered. Cheaply made, true, but that's why it cost $1.00, and it's served me well for 3 or 4 years; if it dies I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and spend another $1.00. I for one am amazed and delighted that calculators, computers etc. can be manufactured as cheaply as they are while in general being much more efficient/useful/powerful and just as reliable (or more so) than the products of yore, which would presumably cost several orders of magnitude more if manufactured the same way today and be completely out of my reach pricewise. mike

20 years

2
1
0 0

DATIP from clr always? (obscure unibus & pdp-11 question)

by brad＠heeltoe.com

An obscure unibus & pdp-11 question: Does "clr" always do a DATIP (i.e. read-modify-write) on all 11's? It does on my 11/44. Something tells me I've seen threads (long ago) on this and the perils of using clr as opposed to "mov #0," when talking to hardware. The rl01 bootstrap does it talking to rl11 registers, which tripped me up for a bit. -brad

20 years

4
7
0 0

Octal

by dm561＠torfree.net

----------Original message(s): Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 16:14:14 +1200 From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> Subject: Re: Octal >> M H Stein wrote: >> >> I've found the Windows Calculator to be the most convenient >> (nicer keyboard & display and doesn't take any desk space). >> mike >I prefer 'dc', the calculator program that comes with UNIX - it does >different radix inputs and outputs, and uses RPN, plus, I _always_ >have a UNIX shell handy (and almost never have a real calculator or a >Windows box in front of me). Well, of course you'd use whatever you like and runs in the OS of your choice, but it's interesting to note how many people still use a "real" calculator when there's probably one on the screen in front of them, not to mention a spreadsheet program; every office user I visit still has a calculator on his/her desk... <snip> >I miss my old Sharp 4-banger with the flourescent digits. I have the >parts in a bag, but it needs some serious plastic reconstruction - I >think the plasticizer was all baked out - the case is seriously >brittle. >-ethan That raises an interesting question: does anyone know of any substance that actually "revitalizes" brittle plastic? m

20 years

1
0
0 0

Vacuuum tube digital circuits (50 year rule)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Vacuuum tube digital circuits (50 year rule) > From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> > Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 17:55:47 +1200 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On 8/31/06, woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> wrote: >> The ads list a 12au7 for about 65 cents in 1955. In 2006 a generic 12au7 >> is about $8.00. I suspect a better deal now than 50 years ago. > >Hmm... if I leave off seconds and just go with minutes/hours, I think >I have enough. Even with modern wages, a bag full of tubes costs >enough to make me want to simplify the design. Hunt a bit I've found Vacuum tubes NOS (New Old Stock) to be widely available. The prices vary widely. To do time.. 12:59 should give you a hint. You need 3 counters only one is decade. the tens of minutes is 0..5 (/6) and hours is either /12 or /24. >The real trick, now, I guess, is how to take 60Hz mains and clock it >down to 1/60Hz with 1955 technology. You need a decade counter and a /6 counter for that, same general circuit just no disply. For simpler you can use several retriggerable monostable with time out being just longer than say 10 cycles and a second with time out of >6 cycles. At most three tubes to do that (12au7/12ax7/12at7). Back when Grumman plant-33 closed (LM project) I picked up a Beckman EPUT (events per unit time) and it was basically 5 digits of that style counter (counted to 5mhz, 8 on a good day) a time base and input circuits (Schmidt trigger). All tubes! Allison

20 years

1
0
0 0

DATIP from clr always? (obscure unibus & pdp-11 question)

by bqt＠softjar.se

Don North <ak6dn at mindspring.com> skrev: > >Brad Parker wrote: >> > Don North wrote: >>> >> On all the discrete logic 11s and LSI11 the CLR instr does a >> > ... >> > >> > thanks! >>> >> So if your hardware can't tolerate a read access to a register, then you >>> >> can do a MOV #0,ADR instead of CLR ADR (and make a note in your code why >>> >> so some poor soul 30 years from now understands why you are doing a >>> >> non-optimal MOV #0,xxx!) >> > >> > I fixed the hardware :-) I was just curious about which machines did >> > what. >> > >> > The problem was that the two transactions are back to back and the bus >> > master keeps overnership. I was waiting for BBSY to go away... >> > >> > -brad > >The 'original' use for DATIP-DATO (vs a sequence of DATI, DATO) was to >let core memory know it did not have to do the read-restore cycle, since >a DATO was coming right away to the exact same location and would >overwrite with new data. The memory could then be a little bit faster. >With MOS memory this is not necessary. > >Some later CPUs (11/74) iirc altered all the 'normal' memory accesses to >be just DATI and DATO(B) cycles, and implemented the special sequence >DATIP-DATOB for the ASRB instruction to act as the atomic memory >interlock. But I digress... > >Don I don't remember for sure here, but can't you have other times where several transactions come back to back without the bus being released? I really should look into the documentation, unfortunately it's not where I am right now. As for the 11/74, it didn't modify the interpretation of the Unibus transactions, since the memory isn't on the Unibus. :) The 11/7x memory bus do have a transaction that keeps the location locked until a write have occurred however. Not used in the 11/70, but the 11/74 uses that. (Obviously.) It's documented in the memory subsystem manual for the 11/70. The only instruction using that bus transaction is the ASRB howewer. Not sure if the 11/84 might have redefined the Unibus somewhat. I remember that there is some note about possible problems with some Unibus devices in an 11/84, but I think it has to do with timing during a bus reset. Wish my memory was more accurate. :) Johnny

20 years

1
0
0 0

"File types"

by THX1138＠dakotacom.net

Hi, When did the notion of "file types" creep into computing? Hmmm... poorly phrased. How about: "When did the notion of file *associations* (?) creep in?". I don't seem to recall having any problem typing: qedx myfile.mp3 or even: qedx a.out (et al.) I know Apple had "file creator" attributes that were semi-hidden (i.e. not part of the file *name*). Is the concept of a "file extension" an outgrowth of the 8.3 naming scheme? Or, does it have its roots further back? Is there any rationale for this sort of an implementation? Or, just one of convenience (i.e. "there was no other space in the dirent to store this stuff so we came up with the idea of just bastardizing the name space to accommodate it"). Since I am not fond of Hungarian notation and consider this just another variant (precursor) thereof, I wonder why it persists? Has Apple abandoned the "hidden" file creator attributes of earlier MacOS in newer OS's (e.g., OS X)? Or, have they bowed to user pressure and implemented a "me-too" scheme?

20 years

19
68
0 0

"File types"

by mtapley＠swri.edu

At 12:03 -0500 8/29/06, Don wrote: >IMO, this was a mistake. It forces the OS to know too much >about the applications that run on it -- instead of being a >resource manager. I.e. it should implement mechanisms, not >policy. There is at least one reason this may not be a mistake in all contexts. If the OS knows something about the files, and about the applications available, it can help me out by connecting the two (or by notifying me that the needed application is not available). That allows me to double-click on a .jpeg file and have a jpeg viewer launched automatically by the OS to open that file. The alternative is of course for me to find my own jpeg viewer, launch it, and then open the same file. The advantages here are that I'll get the *right* jpeg viewer, the OS can be much simpler, and the file can be smaller and named with greater flexibility. File type information could be imbedded in the name (.3), in a "file information" block a la MacOS-Classic, or inside the file itself. I can even imagine an OS with a "guess-the-application" facility, which is actually an application itself that guesses which other application to launch and pass the file to based solely on the file's content or context (though I can imagine that facility failing >from time to time). I think any of these strategies could (and do?) work. I'm not sure that selecting one over the other is a mistake, just a choice adapting the OS to a different function. Some rely more on the user's input, some take more machine resources and are less transportable. -- - Mark Cell Phone: 210-379-4635 office: 210-522-6025

20 years

2
1
0 0

board found

by rtellason＠verizon.net

I looked in a box here that I hadn't looked into in a while, and found this board... It's _not_ ISA, PCI, or any of those formats. Says on the top "Panther EDAC Memory Board". There's also what appears to be an NCR copyright on it, 1993. There are a half dozen big chips across the bottom where the edge connectors are, 5 of them marked VLSI and one NCR with a 1990 copyright date on it, and eight SIMM (?) sockets, but these are not your standard ones -- if I take a 72-pin SIMM and line it up with the notch with one of the occupied sockets on the board, I have 3-4 pins left over (on the part on the board) at each end. Four of the sockets are occupied. The two in the middle that aren't are labeled "Bank-1/3 Byte-2" and "Bank-1/3 Byte-1", I can't see the markings for the other ones and don't want to pop these SIMMs out at the moment. Near the center of the board are four other sockets, with a chip in one of them, looks almost like a SIP but the pins are in two rows, real close together, coming out of the same side of the package (what do you call this?) and the part in the one socket that's occupied is marked "Toshiba" and "TC5117400Z-60". There are also 3 barcoded stickers one of which bears the date "Oct 31 1994" in the middle of two barcodes. This *may* belong with that NCR tower that went out of here a while back, I don't know for sure. Anybody know what it is? Anybody maybe have a use for it? -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin

20 years

2
2
0 0

Help reading DEC tape PDP-8/E OS-8 format

by daviderhart＠oldzonian.com

I'm looking for help and advice on how to read two DEC tapes that were given to me recently. I would like to save the data from the tapes on a CD-ROM and hopefully view the files on a WinXP system. I'm in the San Jose, California area. I don't have any DEC systems and know very little about DEC tapes. I'm assuming that the label is correct: "PDP-8/E OS-8 format", but I may be wrong. Here are a few pictures of the tapes in case it helps. http://www.sageandstride.org/DEC_tapes_001.jpg http://www.sageandstride.org/DEC_tapes_002.jpg http://www.sageandstride.org/DEC_tapes_003.jpg Any advice or help is appreciated. Thanks, david.

20 years

2
1
0 0

Octal

by tpeters＠mixcom.com

At 05:37 PM 8/30/2006 -0700, you wrote: >Here's a question for the list - how many still have and use the TI >calculator that could be used in octal or hex? I had a Ti-programmer LED for years. Finally, it gave up the ghost. Then I had a TI-Programmer LCD. It died and TI exchanged it for a new one. That's still around here somewhere. The battery connections are crusty and I can't always persuade it to power up. >Billy SED /S-E-D/ n. [TMRC, from `Light-Emitting Diode'] Smoke-emitting diode. A friode that lost the war. See also LER --jargon.net --... ...-- -.. . -. ----. --.- --.- -... tpeters at nospam.mixcom.com (remove "nospam") N9QQB (amateur radio) "HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB ADDRESS http//www.mixweb.com/tpeters 43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square EN53wc WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, CCNA, Registered Linux User 385531

20 years

1
0
0 0

Imaging DEC uVAX MFM drives

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Imaging DEC uVAX MFM drives > From: J Blaser <oldcpu at rogerwilco.org> > Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 16:14:52 -0600 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Hmm...let's see. > >The RD53 is from uVAX II with a RQDX3. >The RD54 is from a VAXstation 3200 with a RQDX3. >The RD23 is from a uVAX I with a RQDX3. No such thing as RD23. Is that a typo? Allison

20 years

5
5
0 0

Octal

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Octal > From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> > Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:22:14 -0700 (PDT) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >> Here's a question for the list - how many still have and use the TI >> calculator that could be used in octal or hex? > >TI Programmer first model had an LED display, and went through batteries >rather quickly. There is an enormous range of what life people would get >from the batteries in it, ranging from hours to weeks. the led model also had a rotten keyboard. The batteres in mine gave good service but the keyboard was useless after a year. FYI: I have a clock radio (GE) that used a TI chip in the PLL and their rotten keyboard (same failure mode). >TI Programmer Second model had an LCD display, and the batteries >outlasted the keyboard (NOT a clean room situation) > >Casio CFX40 and CFX400 wrist watch scientific calculator that had >decimal, hex, and octal modes. They are starting to become hard to find. Cute but it was hard to use. Allison

20 years

1
0
0 0

Help reading DEC tape PDP-8/E OS-8 format

by aek＠bitsavers.org

I'm looking for help and advice on how to read two DEC tapes that were given to me recently. -- I can read them for you at the Computer History Museum in Mtn View.

20 years

2
1
0 0

Octal

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Octal > From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com> > Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 17:46:12 -0700 (PDT) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >> Here's a question for the list - how many still have and use the TI >> calculator that could be used in octal or hex? > >It's sitting on a shelf by my PDP-11 :^) I used to have one (Casio I think) >that was solar powered and had an LCD rather than the LED display of the TI. >I think I still have the non-solar powered one that replaced it, but it >needs a new battery. > > Zane Ti Programmer, still have it. Sharp EL508 and EL512 the latter I got as part of my"toolkit" at DEC in '83. The Pair are both battery powered, the difference is the 506 is a scientific calc and the 512 adds programability to the same capability. Allison

20 years

1
0
0 0

Octal

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Octal > From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> > Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:09:59 -0600 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Chuck Guzis wrote: > >> It's very useful for counting whilst hanging by your thumbs. >> Cheers, >> Chuck >I need my thumbs to grab bannanas, I hang by my toes. :) >Did any of the classic computers display in octal 0-7 >rather than 3 lights per digit? Also what was the display >device? Heath H8 and the Godbout front pannel. Display was 7segment LED. I'm sure some of the SBCs also used similar displays (in octal). Allison

20 years

1
0
0 0

Pentium for Non-PC

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

Jay wrote: >Sean wrote.... >> I seem to recall a supercomputer made by Intel that used Pentiums. I >>forget the name though, but it was quite a behemoth of a machine from what >>little I recall (many CPUs). > >Wasn't that "The Connection Machine"? > >J Interesteing - did it have any relation design-or-heritage wise with the TMI Connection Machines? Or is this just another example of Intel taking whatever names they feel are cool without any regard for previous users (like "Extreme Graphics")

20 years

1
0
0 0

Board Found (OT)

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

Don't know the board's exact function, but I can probably tell you what it goes to: the NCR 3360 Panther. It ran dual Pentiums (SMP) and had Micro Channel I/O. Came out in the Windows NT hype era, along with all those other boxes that were going to take the high end away from the PC. The NCR was pretty much PC, though, hence the OT.

20 years

1
0
0 0

new list

by rtellason＠verizon.net

I've never seen this list like this, with SO BLOODY MUCH discussion about the list itself, far in excess of the stuff that (I thought) this list was supposed to be about. I've seen a number of folks saying "If you don't like the way this list is run, start your own", so I did -- but not for that reason. I started a yahoo group for folks to discuss the 10-year-rule and the similar stuff that's been bogging things down in here lately. You can join it at: 10-year-rule-subscribe at yahoogroups.com Feel free, and have fun. Now, can we get back to talking about classic computers (by whatever definition)? -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin

20 years

6
7
0 0

Enterprise 64/128 peripherals

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

I sent this one to Witchy the other day, but I think he's on holiday, so... maybe there are other Enterprise experts on the list :) Anyone know what Enterprise peripherals actually made it into production other than the EXDOS interface? We've got a lot of marketing stuff with the machine we were given the other day, and I've seen reference to expansion boxes, memory modules, home security systems, graphics tablets, mice, speech synthesisers. I know the floppy drives themselves never existed outside of marketing mock-ups. In fact, did the Enterprise-branded monitor even make it? Enterprise seemed very good at making full-scale production-quality mock ups of vapourware, so just the fact that it exists in posters doesn't mean much :) It's one seriously cool machine though, and the specs are pretty darn good for the time (way ahead of most other UK micros that were about) - it really deserved to do better. cheers Jules -- If you've ever wondered how you get triangles from a cow You need buttermilk and cheese, and an equilateral chainsaw

20 years

2
1
0 0

DATIP from clr always? (obscure unibus & pdp-11 question)

by bqt＠softjar.se

"Henk Gooijen" <henk.gooijen at hotmail.com> skrev: >> From: Brad Parker <brad at heeltoe.com> >> Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic >> Posts"<cctalk at classiccmp.org> >> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >> <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >> Subject: DATIP from clr always? (obscure unibus & pdp-11 question) >> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:35:57 -0400 >> >> An obscure unibus & pdp-11 question: >> >> Does "clr" always do a DATIP (i.e. read-modify-write) on all 11's? >> >> It does on my 11/44. Something tells me I've seen threads (long ago) on >> this and the perils of using clr as opposed to "mov #0," when talking to >> hardware. >> >> The rl01 bootstrap does it talking to rl11 registers, which tripped me >> up for a bit. >> >> -brad > > The only difference between CLR and MOV #0 that I think of immediately > is that CLR clears the Carry flag too, whereas MOV #0 does not affect the > Carry flag. That is needed to do multi-word ADD or SUB. What does that have to do with anything? The question was about what Unibus transactions are performed given a CLR. I'm not at all close to any Unibus documentation right now, nor any processor docs. so I can't really answer the question. However, if I were to guess the answer would be no. I can't see that a CLR always would be implemented using a DATIP. It is probably very much up to each CPU implementation to perform whatever transactions that cause the end result to look the same. I'm actually surprised that a CLR would result in a read-modify-write cycle on the Unibus though. Are you sure it wasn't a CLRB? Johnny

20 years

1
0
0 0

Statement & apology (was Re: 10 Year Rule)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Statement & apology (was Re: 10 Year Rule) > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 01:42:08 +0100 (BST) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >> >> > I'm trying really hard to reach out and maintain composure.... >> >> It is appreciated, and I hope you can see the point that myself and several >> others are trying to get across. Please bare with my rambling in this >> email. I'm trying to illustrate a point :^) >> >> I would like to emphasis that I am not trying to pick a fight here. If >> anyone feels that way, or feels like firing back a flame, please go do > >Hopefully this is not a flame, I don't intend it to be > >> something else for an hour or two. If you still feel the need to reply, try >> to let logic rather than emotion dictate what you write. >> >> Let me start by saying that what I right below is based on my perception >> that the crux of this issue is that if the "10 year rule" is in effect, then >> Pentiums and Windows 95 are on-topic. > >A serious question : Was the Pentium ever used in a non-PC compatible? I >know the 386 was -- there was a least one Sun that used it, and those >interesting Sequent multi-processor 386 machines. Anything similar with >the Pentium? If so, (and if they're more than 10 years old or whatever), >I think I could easily consider those to be classic computers. No pentium but the 386 did appear on the S100 bus. Allison > >> >> > Zane wrote.... >> > > Wrong. The 10 year rule still makes sense. What you are saying is that >> > > no >> > > new systems will be added, and that this is a dying hobby. >> >> > Wrong. Just because I said the "10 year rule" is no longer active on the >> > list, does NOT mean that in it's place is a firm year cutoff instead. >> > NEITHER are acceptable. >> >> Even in the beginning the "10 year rule" wasn't considered to be perfect, it >> was a compromise. It was also recognized that an arbitrary cut-off at 10 >> years was bad, as systems newer than 10 years could be considered a classic. > >One great advantage of the 10 year rule was that it was easy to use. It >was pretty easy to dermine if a machine was over 10 years old or not. >Other definitions of 'classicness' seem much harder to apply. > >> I personally don't consider a Sun workstation a classic, I consider it a > >As a PERQ-fanatic I can't like Suns, right :-). But more seriously, I >would certainly consider a Sun 1 or Sun 2 to be a classic. > >> workhorse. I'm sure there are plenty here that disagree. At the same time >> I consider at least all pre-PCI Sun HW to be ontopic for this list. >> >> Shoot, I don't even consider most (if not all VAXen) to be classics! >> They're still widely used in businesses, and after the MicroVAX II, I for >> one don't find the hardware that interesting. I do however, think that they >> are great for supporting systems I do consider to be classics, namely >> PDP-11's. BTW, I run a VAX 24x7. > >Hmm.. I think the 11/730 _is_ a classic. To fit a complete VAX into 3 >hex-height boards using almost all standard chips (there are 2 custom >gate arrays for the memory ECC logic, the rest is microcode RAM, 2901s, >and a lot of PALs) is a wonderful piece of design. > >And as a hardware hacker, I really see little difference between an >11/730 or an 11/780 and the older PDP11s that I know and love... > >I have difficulty thinking of anything made by Sinclair as a classic. But >I know others will disagree, and for good reasons (given _their_ >interests). > >-tony

20 years

5
4
0 0

Floppy disk sizes ( was Re: Compaq Portable III fails POST? )

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

--- "Roy J. Tellason" <rtellason at verizon.net> wrote : > On Wednesday 30 August 2006 04:17 pm, Chuck Guzis > wrote: > > But then, given the quality of the blank media > produced over the last 5 > > years, it probably doesn't matter anyway. > > I'll say! I've never had as much trouble with 5.2 5" > and 8" as I've had with > 3.5" in recent years. Not just the media, but th e > drives, too. > > -- I agree with the media part. Used to use Imation disks (bought from Argos here in the UK) for my Amiga games and stuff. The disks (particularly the casing) are rather poor, especially compared to old Amiga disks I have. I generally try to buy Verbatim disks, which are of a far higher quality, these days. However, they are hard to find - they can be bought online, but you need a PC/Mac running appropriate (e.g. up to date) software for the internet sites (and no, you can't buy them direct from Verbatim - they simply redirect you to other online sites). Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

20 years

1
0
0 0

Floppy disk sizes ( was Re: Compaq Portable III fails POST? )

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

--- Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote: >> snip << > > My early Shugart 3.5" diskettes had no shutter. > Then came the manually slide open, and pinch the > corner to close. > Many fairly modern diskettes still have the little > arrow that pointed to > where you were to pinch it! > > It's too bad that the 3" didn't carry the field. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com > I always wondered what the arrow was for. Thanks for that Fred. Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

20 years

2
1
0 0

"File types"

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: "File types" > From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> > Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 11:04:03 -0700 (PDT) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >> >Some of the CP/M tools used $ as a string terminator, if I'm remembering >> >right... > >On Wed, 30 Aug 2006, Chuck Guzis wrote: >> Actually, it's BDOS call 9--preserved to this day in MS-DOS/Windoze. I've >> no idea why a printable character was selected as a terminator. Anyone >> have any idea of its origin? > >IIRC, I saw an interview long ago, (maybe when Gary Kildall was the >co-host with Jim Warren of Computer Chronicles?), in which Gary >APOLOGIZED for that, and said that it had been a temporary kludge, >and hadn't originally been meant to be permanent. > > >For their first assignment, I have my assembly language students write a >program to display their name AND the price that they paid for the >textbook (to force use of function 2, instead of 9). We then use creating >their own puts() function to get into jumps, conditional jumps, and loops. I did that once to annoy someone only the dollar sign was faked by adding 80h to it so the terminator was not observed by BDOS-9. Another time I modded CP/M itself to use null (00h) instead. Then again I didn't want it to be portable. ;) Allison

20 years

1
0
0 0

SGI Dials & Buttons and no P/S

by david.l9.lewallen＠lmco.com

Hi; The usual pinout from the CPU to buttons is CPU 2,3,5 to Buttons 3,2,7 respectively. (9 pin) The power is 5 volts 850 ma with the center pin negative. (3mm circular plug) The cable from the buttons to the dials, i don't know. You only need power To the buttons box, the buttons to dials cable has a power wire. Some dials come with the cable as a pigtail. Note, the jack screws (posts) that the cable screws go into are metric. You might want to re-tap them to English 4-40 so most cable connectors will fit. The interface to this uses some kind of Unix GLUT. It is not defined down to the parameter block that goes out to the boxes. You will probably have to hack that. If you know anyone with the parameter block or protocol, please post. I believe the buttons is some kind of 32 bit mask setup. Good luck

20 years

1
0
0 0

Philips PM3214 O-scope manual needed

by dm561＠torfree.net

Thanks, Don & Nico; my appreciative replies off-list. Still looking though... mike

20 years

1
0
0 0

Imaging DEC uVAX MFM drives

by oldcpu＠rogerwilco.org

For the DEC uVAX gurus out there... [And, first, let me apologize up front for the length of this post, but as mostly a list skulker (of about 9 months), and a digest reader, I figured I'd toss in as many relevent details as I could.] Being the fortunate recipient of a nice collection of DEC gear, I've now turned my attention to a handful of uVAXen of various flavors. As I did with the PDP-11 RL cartridges, I'm first trying to image these uVAXen disks[1] before I do something stupid. Please be aware that I'm a complete VAX newbie and I consider this imaging a vital CYA insurance step to my eventual VAX/VMS/ULTRIX/BSD education. Since I don't have (at least to my knowledge, yet) a functional VAX that might do the trick, I've removed each drive and attached it to a known working WD1002-WA2 controller [2] running on a 40Mhz 386 box, with Debian Linux. I'm just using the dd command to image the drive to a file, which I'll burn off to a CD when I've got everything imaged. The reason I'm using such old hardware is a long story [3], but I have tested and proved this setup's functionality by imaging three MFM drives >from old PC-class system.with no difficulty. Which brings me to the DEC-related drives. After adjusting the Drive Select (set to drive 2, per IBM's twisted cable 'standard') and Write Fault (if extant) jumpers, *none* of the DEC-related drives are recognized by my test rig. I always get a "C: drive error / Press <F1> to RESUME" message. The drive's ready light is on, and all looks and sounds normal. For kicks, if I boot linux and try my dd command, it croaks with this type of message: hda: read_intr: status=0x59 { DriveReady SeekComplete DataRequest Error } hda: read_intr: error=0x10 { SectorIdNotFound }, CHS=0/0/1, sector 0 I get the same type of results when I use dd's seek=n option to other blocks (sectors). Strangely, it almost appears that there is no low level format on the drives, doesn't it? I'm not smart enough to make that call though, and it seems strange that *all three* drives show this same result. Is it possible that the original owner somehow 'bulk erased' the drives? I did, at least, expect to find formating marks. Is there something I've missed, trying to image these 'DEC' drives? Did I miss some not-so-obvious jumper somewhere (though I diligently examined all documentation I could find)? Surely, they're just good-ol' MFM drives, right? Jared [1] I'm imaging three different drive types: RD23-A (71MB Micropolis 1325), RD54 (159MB Maxtor XT-2190), and a Rodime RO-202 11MB drive from an AED WINC-08/05 RX01/RL02 emulation system. [2] Yes, I still have every computer I've ever owned, including two AT-class 286 machines made by Novell in the mid 80's. [3] Attempting to use the WD1002-WA2 in two different and more modern PC motherboards with onboard IDE interfaces proved a no go. Even after disabling the IDE controller (both primary and secondary) and the floppy controller in the BIOS there were some general flakiness, and I couldn't ever get the systems to recognize the MFM controller.

20 years

12
16
0 0

AIX guru consult

by spectre＠floodgap.com

Request for AIX consult. Is this a parity memory error? The unit is a PPC 604e with 512MB of parity DIMMs, just installed last week. LABEL: MACHINECHECK IDENTIFIER: 9D972716 Date/Time: <censored> Sequence Number: 968733 Machine Id: <censored> Node Id: <censored> Class: H Type: PERM Resource Name: sysplanar0 Resource Class: NONE Resource Type: NONE Location: NONE Description MACHINE CHECK Probable Causes MEMORY MEMORY CONTROLLER SYSTEM I/O BUS Failure Causes MEMORY MEMORY CONTROLLER SYSTEM I/O BUS Recommended Actions PERFORM PROBLEM DETERMINATION PROCEDURES Detail Data MACHINE CHECK STATUS 81 MEMORY LOCATION BITS 16-31 OF SRR1, MSR 9078 TIME <censored> NEXT INSTRUCTION, SSR0 0009 1ED8 MACHINE CHECK ERROR STATUS REGISTER 0000 0000 MACHINE CHECK ERROR ADDRESS REGISTER 0000 0000 -- --------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Don't wear rollerskates to a tug-of-war. -- Larry Wall ---------------------

20 years

2
2
0 0

Statement & apology (was Re: 10 Year Rule)

by marvin＠rain.org

> From: "Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org> > > Hans wrote.... > > Now, hold the horses. Has there been something I missed? > > Like some putsch? So, who is the ruler that gave us the > > revocation of our basic rule, right today? > > That would be me, the owner of this list. And given my past indulgence of > many peoples behaviour on the list, I rather resent the "ruler" and "right > revoker" implication/characterization that you make. > > This has been a benevolent dictatorship for a long time - since I took over > the list many years ago. I usually am pretty quiet preferring not to add to the "noise" level. BUT, Jay has been doing a fabulous job maintaining the list and providing some order. While some may or may not like it, there HAS to be someone in charge ... and that is Jay. He has always been open to suggestions and mildly tolerant of a *bit* of list "noise", and I see nothing that indicates a change. Personally, I think this list is very lucky to have someone with his knowledge, resources, and dedication running this list ... it appears to be a mostly thankless job. Jay, thanks MUCH for all the work you put into this list!

20 years

3
2
0 0

5.25" DSDD floppies

by rtellason＠verizon.net

I have just acquired several (8-9?) boxes of the above-mentioned floppies, all except one are shrink-wrapped still, and looking in the one that isn't I find ten in the box, plus labels and WP tabs. There's a barcode and part numbers and whatnot on the box. If anybody can use some of these, feel free to contact me offlist. -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin

20 years

1
0
0 0

Age cutoff, was: Recommendations for operating system

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

At the risk of being overly buzzword compliant, how about something along the lines of "computing that differs materially from the current computing paradigm"? That would allow limited discussion of interesting O/S and other software on currentish computers or "heavily microcoded" implementations of classic machines, whilst excluding Windows 95 and modernish hardware discussions.

20 years

9
8
0 0

Imaging DEC uVAX MFM drives

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Imaging DEC uVAX MFM drives > From: "Dan Williams" <williams.dan at gmail.com> > Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 10:36:48 +0100 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > ><snip> >> If the 3100 is running VMS it can netboot VMS to a target VAX system so >> long as there is a network between them. Though Netbsd may be easier for >> those more familiar with Linux/unix. >> >> >> >> Allison >> >> >> >I think VMS must be the fastest and easiest setup for netbooting out >of any OS I have used. Just one program type in a few details and it >works. I have spent far to long trying to figure out what went wrong >with netbooting to find I had an extra ";" or similar somewhere it >shouldn't be, or didn't have one where it should. I do too but if your not somewhat familiar with VMS it could be a minefield. I pointed out the unix path for those that know it and are most comfortable there. Myself I just cluster boot systems that have empty disks or I want to see what's on the disks. The best way to get at the VAX disks is a working VAX. Archiving them is a different propisition. Myself I have a boatload of RZ56s (5.25" full height 680mb SCSI disks) and a few BA42 boxes to put them in and a CMD SCSI controller for Qbus. This allows me to image from any Qbus VAX I can fit the controller into or use one of my pack of uVAX3100s SCSI interface. With eight RX56s on hand and a few 1gb Baracudas I have a solid image and backup archive. Allison

20 years

1
0
0 0

Imaging DEC uVAX MFM drives

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Imaging DEC uVAX MFM drives > From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com> > Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 16:55:48 -0700 (PDT) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >> The RD53 is from uVAX II with a RQDX3. > >And this makes me think of something I don't think anyone has directly >warned you of. Sort out everything with another drive than this. *IF* it >will spin up, you want to get the data off of it without powering it back >down. RD53's were unreliable 10-20 years ago, they can't have gotten any >better :^( > >> The RD23 is from a uVAX I with a RQDX3. If the head stick problem hasn't happend it will be fine. >RD23? Assuming this isn't a typo, what on earth is an RD23? > >> (BTW, it also have a VAXstation 3100-m38 with RZ(something) SCSI drive >> which I successfully imaged on a PC with SCSI capabilities) > SCSI is a whole differnt matter. SCSI has better standardization as the media itself is more isolated. ><snip> > >> Yep, I think Pat's idea to do a diskless/network boot of NetBSD and then >> image off from there is the way to go. > >Actually you might have another solution here. Is the VAXstation 3100-m38 >running VMS? If it is, has TCP/IP, and the SCSI HD has enough free space, >simply net-boot VMS. Though if you're more comfortable with Pat's idea, >it's probably the better solution. For certain if it has VMS it has DECnet, however LINUX and even PCs can support DECNET directly. If the 3100 is running VMS it can netboot VMS to a target VAX system so long as there is a network between them. Though Netbsd may be easier for those more familiar with Linux/unix. Allison

20 years

2
1
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"File types"

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: "File types" > From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> > Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:52:56 +1200 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On 8/29/06, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote: >> Unix was the first system that I'd ever seen where the file name implied a >> type. For me it was OS8 and later tops 10. By RT11 and CP/M the idea that COM, .TXT, .DOC and .ASM were fully embedded. And even CP/M apps were somewhat sensitized... Ever type A:ASM FOO.ASM and wonder why you got a disk specification error? Allison

20 years

7
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"File types"

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

--- Don <THX1138 at dakotacom.net> wrote: > I.e. type needs to be finer grained than silly N > *character* > file "extensions"... *everyone* wants to be "DOC", > or some > other pronounceable extension. So, the file types > lose their > value (e.g., on my W2K box, Matlab and Mathematica > both want > to use .m -- so, .m files are meaningless to me > since I can't > recall FROM THE NAME OF THE FILE which application > needs to > be opened to process the file). MacOS *seems* to > have had the > right idea (though I have never used it "seriously " > to know > for sure). > *raises hand* Why not use a combination of an extension name and internal references within the files data, like the IFF format on the Amiga. eg. Filename: mypic.IFF and then within the first 16 bytes are contained the ASCII "ILBM" and something else (I forget... that's what not having a properly working Amiga does to me!). Not sure why they are spread apart and not the first few bytes. As far as I am concerned it is down to the software to *detect* whether or not the file is the right type, regardless of whether the extension name is correct (eg. IFF stands for Interchange File Format, or something similar, and can have sounds stored in an .IFF file instead of image data). Personally I developed a (lame) .ABI image format for the Amiga last year, and apart >from the .ABI extension it has a couple of other ways to detect it is the correct file type - eg. my initials ("ADB") are at the end of the file aswell as something else hidden in the data (that was also included just so I could verify it's *my* file type - I don't want to invent something and have it stolen >from me like so many great idea's (not referring to mine now) in the past. Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

20 years

4
3
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Philips PM3214 O-scope manual needed

by dm561＠torfree.net

Any chance someone out there has a manual for this 'scope? (Philips PM3214) Any info greatly appreciated. mike

20 years

3
2
0 0

"File types"

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: "File types" > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 00:10:01 +0100 (BST) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >> And even CP/M apps were somewhat sensitized... Ever type A:ASM FOO.ASM and >> wonder why you got a disk specification error? > >Doesn't it try to write the object to S:, and the listing to M: ? Neither >of which probably exist. CP/M only has 16 disks posible (A..P). >I remember the first time I used ZASM (a CP/M Z80 assembler) on an >RML380Z. I typed 'ZASM FOO,ZSM and got a 'BDOS ERROR ON Z: SELECT' for my >efforts.... Exactly! >>To return to the original question, how far back do you have to go for >unix's cc(1) to require .c on C source files, .o on object files (to be >linked it), and so on? Day two. On day one they wrote the compiler. Allison

20 years

1
0
0 0

Comptometer / adding machine oil?

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

Do mechanical adding machines / calculators favour any particular kind of oil (or grease) - or is it just a case of going for the lightest stuff possible? I've got one here (adding machine - Bell Punch 509) that's in remarkably good condition, but some of the mechanism needs a little 'help' for it to work. I don't think it's binding due to any mechanical distortion (although it could well be simple wear) - chances are that whatever lubricant was used has long since given up though and sorting that out may well get it going again. (for the curious, it's one of these: http://home.vicnet.net.au/~wolff/calculators/comptometers/Plus/Plus-1.htm ) cheers Jules -- A. Because it destroys the natural flow of conversation. Q. What's wrong with top posting ?

20 years

6
9
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Registry of Collectors

by tarsi＠binhost.com

Forgive me if this has been done, but has anyone ever attempted to create a registry of collectors on the CComp lists? A sort of virtual directory of people on the list, their particular collection/hobby interests, and perhaps contact information? I'd be interesting to have such a tome for looking up quick access to someone's specific knowledge if need be. Nathan -- -------------------- www.nathanpralle.com --------------------

20 years

2
1
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HP 21xx diagnostics

by jdbryan＠acm.org

I am trying to determine the revision date codes of three HP 2100/21MX diagnostic binary paper tapes in my possession. If anyone has the "Diagnostic Configurator Reference Manual" (HP number 02100-90157) with a print date later than August 1976 and earlier than January 1978, please check Table A-1 in Appendix A for the revision codes for the following diagnostic serial numbers: DSN 111202 -- 7900/01 CARTRIDGE DISC -- 12960-16001 DSN 111303 -- 7905 CARTRIDGE DISC -- 12962-16001 DSN 146100 -- PAPER TAPE READER-PUNCH -- 12597-16001 It's also possible that the revision codes are listed in the corresponding diagnostic operating manuals from that time period; these are the part numbers: 12960-90003 12962-90001 12597-90031 (I have the Configurator manuals before and after the above dates, and the DSNs bracket the ones I'm trying to identify.) -- Dave

20 years

1
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Imaging DEC uVAX MFM drives

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Imaging DEC uVAX MFM drives > From: J Blaser <oldcpu at rogerwilco.org> > Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 14:11:25 -0600 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >Since I don't have (at least to my knowledge, yet) a functional VAX that >might do the trick, I've removed each drive and attached it to a known >working WD1002-WA2 controller [2] running on a 40Mhz 386 box, with >Debian Linux. I'm just using the dd command to image the drive to a >file, which I'll burn off to a CD when I've got everything imaged. This will not work with DEC RDxx drives that have been formatted with RQDX1/2 or RQDX3 controllers (Qbus 11 or MicroVAX). >For kicks, if I boot linux and try my dd command, it croaks with this >type of message: > >hda: read_intr: status=0x59 { DriveReady SeekComplete DataRequest Error } >hda: read_intr: error=0x10 { SectorIdNotFound }, CHS=0/0/1, sector 0 > >I get the same type of results when I use dd's seek=n option to other >blocks (sectors). > >Strangely, it almost appears that there is no low level format on the >drives, doesn't it? I'm not smart enough to make that call though, and >it seems strange that *all three* drives show this same result. Is it >possible that the original owner somehow 'bulk erased' the drives? I >did, at least, expect to find formating marks. There may not be a recognizeable format which is the same as saying no format using PC hardware. The drives may be fine and even bootable. >Is there something I've missed, trying to image these 'DEC' drives? Did >I miss some not-so-obvious jumper somewhere (though I diligently >examined all documentation I could find)? Surely, they're just good-ol' >MFM drives, right? I've tried this it never worked using WD1003/WD1006. >[1] I'm imaging three different drive types: RD23-A (71MB Micropolis >1325), RD54 (159MB Maxtor XT-2190), and a Rodime RO-202 11MB drive from >an AED WINC-08/05 RX01/RL02 emulation system. 71MB Micropolis is RD53 (all full height 5.25 are RD5x). All half height are RD3x (st225 and St251) The Rodime is nonDEC, it's likely from a third party. >[2] Yes, I still have every computer I've ever owned, including two >AT-class 286 machines made by Novell in the mid 80's. > >[3] Attempting to use the WD1002-WA2 in two different and more modern PC >motherboards with onboard IDE interfaces proved a no go. Even after >disabling the IDE controller (both primary and secondary) and the floppy >controller in the BIOS there were some general flakiness, and I couldn't >ever get the systems to recognize the MFM controller. The problem is the older controllers will often not work as the newer machines are too fast. You would have to slow down the ISA bus access (older bioses have a tweek for that.). Also the 1002 may require a driver that is incompatable with newer machines (IDE is closest to the wd1003). However, PC hard disk cards in general will be incompatable with DEC controller formatted drives. Third party controllers like the AED you may have a shot but, most of them used proprietory controllers. Your attempt to image the content of the drives will be unsuccessful using PC hardware. Allison

20 years

1
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Imaging DEC uVAX MFM drives

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Imaging DEC uVAX MFM drives > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 14:04:30 -0700 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >On 8/29/2006 at 1:47 PM Zane H. Healy wrote: > >>I suspect, but this is only a guess, that the issue is the way the DEC MFM >>drives are formated. There are only two ways that I'm aware of to format >>an MFM drive for use on a VAX. One is with a MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 >>(formatter is built into the ROM's), the other is with the Field Service >>Diagnostics (customer diagnostics can't format drives). Many ways to format media on DEC systems. One is a suitable controller and (rqdx2/3)on a PDP-11 qbus machine runnig XXDP diags. The uVAX2000 has formatter in rom (RQDX3 compatable). uVAX-II with diagnostic/formatter disks (Rx50) and the RQDXn of choice. The later uVAX-III I think also had more diagnostic capability. >Bingo. Even back in the old PC XT/AT MFM days, you couldn't always take an >MFM drive formatted on one manufacturer's controller and use it as-is on >another's. Generally you had WDxxxx (compatable), WD RLL mostly compatable, and "other" mostly all over the map but may be compatable with WD1003 style. The S100 market and controllers were a similar problem. Since controllers were TTL/CPU and PALS usually the formats were not alike but formatting was usually not a problem. SCSI is far easier to live with even older near sasi format (Amprolb). Allison

20 years

1
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Statement & apology (was Re: 10 Year Rule)

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

--- der Mouse <mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca> wrote: > > For the record, I think Jay is doing a GREAT job , > and more people who > > might be intimidated by this thread but who agre e > should speak up and > > say so. > > Well, I don't feel intimidated by the thread. But I > do think Jay is > doing a good job managing the list; I don't agree > with everything he > does/says, but I agree with most of it, and I thin k > he's probably doing > a better job than I would in his place. > > If Jay says the list rules have changed, the list > rules have changed, > and it is not for us to gainsay him. classiccmp i s > a tremendous > resource, and it seems to me more than a trifle > arrogant for us to try > to tell Jay how he has to run something he's > *donating* to us. > > If you don't like it, go start your own list. Mak e > it good, and I > might even subscribe. :-) > Right with you there der Mouse. Jay, as a relatively new member I have found this list useful and interesting, but if you do decide to do a mandatory "time-out" (and I hope you don't) I will understand, as I'm sure will many of us. Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

20 years

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Statement & apology (was Re: 10 Year Rule)

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

--- "Nathan E. Pralle" <tarsi at binhost.com> wrote: >> snip << > collect a DEC), but I > could easily see a "pre-1984" list and a "post-198 4" > list for those who > would rather glean only that subject matter that > pertains to their > particular hobby interests. > > Nathan > I think that is a good idea, except that my interest lies in the TRS-80 (1980 to 1988ish) and the Amiga (erm.. mid 80's to present) so there would have to be a list that still combined everything as it is now (100 emails a day isn't so bad.... unless you have a family/partner to spend time with). Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

20 years

1
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New version of GTTY for PDP-8s, etc.

by lbickley＠bickleywest.com

I recently added a RK8E/Rk05 and a RX8E/RK02 to my PDP-8/F and had ample opportunity to use GTTY as my console/paper-tape interface. As a result, I have upgraded GTTY as follows since it's last "official" release: Changes since release 0.92 1) Added ability to output a CR, wait for echo, etc. before uploading PT image files. Aids in handling paper tape uploads to OS/8 programs (such as PIP, BUILD. etc.). 2) Tabbing is now supported. Added option to specify tab size. 3) Proper handling of CR on "Enter" (bug fix). 4) Option to support CF/LF on "Enter" for DOS. 5) Minor bug fixes. 6) Documentation improvements This latest version (0.96) of GTTY can be obtained from: ftp://bickleywest.com/gtty96 or by anonymous FTP: ftp bickleywest.com Name: anonymous Password: [email address] cd /gtty96 Cheers, Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

20 years

1
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CCtalk "rules" etc.

by dm561＠torfree.net

And if you want to argue with Jay about what you think this list should be, why not take it off-list. m

20 years

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CCtalk "rules" etc.

by dm561＠torfree.net

--------------Original message: Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 12:20:40 -0400 From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan at snarc.net> Subject: RE: Statement & apology (was Re: 10 Year Rule) For the record, I think Jay is doing a GREAT job, and more people who might be intimidated by this thread but who agree should speak up and say so. ---------------Reply: Not intimidated, just didn't want to add any more to the noise, but yes, count me in as someone who thinks Jay is doing a great job! Also kudos to the moderators who give their time to separate the wheat from the chaff, which wouldn't be necessary if people would remember what the real purpose of this list is, specifically mutual assistance and support of and preservation of things related to "classic" computers. And thanks to all the people wading through the cr*p who have the sense to refrain from joining in. A 10 year rule makes little sense to me; by that criterion every generic beige box I pass sitting on the curb would qualify; on the other hand there were DOS & Windows machines which I _would_ consider classics. Why all this obsession about "rules"? Although there are doubtlessly some subjective differences of opinion, I think everyone on this list has a pretty good idea of what's classic and what's not; is common sense and a little self-control really in such short supply here? C'mon guys, let's be a little more "professional" and keep (make?) this list refreshingly different from most of the other noisy lists out there. And remember that some people have to pay connection charges, and that every time someone gets annoyed enough to unsubscribe that's potentially a resource lost to all of us. mike

20 years

1
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10 Year Rule (was Re: Recommendations for operating system)

by jim.isbell＠gmail.com

On 8/29/06, Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote: > My > *KEY* complaint is people not changing the subject when the subject > of the thread drifts. I know I've missed out on threads that I'm > interested in due to this, and I've gone far farther than I have time > in threads that I've become disinterested in due to this. Amen and Amen. This causes me to lose a lot I am sure. And I can see why it happ-ens. I could change this subject line to "Subject Line Veracity" but then those following it would get lost. Its a "damned if you do and damned if you dont" situation. Jim Isbell "If you are not living on the edge, well then, you are just taking up too much space."

20 years

2
1
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IBM 10SR is from what system?

by alexeyt＠freeshell.org

There's a mom+pop computer shop in Takoma Park, MD that likes to stick all the oldest hardware they have in their front window. The only thing they have I've never seen before is a hard disk assembly, in a clear plastic case (maybe 30cm by 50cm), 3 platers, with a warranty sticker that says IBM and 10SR. I'm curious what sort of systems these were used in. Alexey

20 years

5
6
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MDS 225 External Disk Cable (and my view of cctalk delivery)

by river＠zip.com.au

Hi, I have an Intel 225MDS with the single 8inch floppy, expansion unit and external dual 8inch floppies. I do not have the cable to attach the external drives. Does anyone have the pinouts so I can make my own cable? river PS: Oh, in regards to the comments about the delivery of cctalk information, I think it would be better to have a web site. That way you can set up various forums and threads to facilitate the searching of information and also categorise the various messages and topics. This will allow you to ignore those topics you are not interested in and focus only in your area of interest/expertise. I find the scrolling through emails to be rather archaic and doesn't make use of the modern technology/forums that are available to us. We may like our old systems, but we aren't total luddites (are we?), and there's no reason why we can't present our information in a more avdanced form. Furthermore going to a web-based system would attract more people. Sure, there will be the "wookie" factor - but this is something that has always been around, regardless of the medium. But, it will make our information more accessible and appealing to others who have similar interests, or those wishing to learn an embark on the hobby of classic computing. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/430 - Release Date: 28/08/2006

20 years

2
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PC ist schlect

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> I think that this just squeaks in as being on topic. Raising the noise here another 6db is a wonderful idea.

20 years

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On Topic: PDP-11/34 FP11-A board question

by pat＠computer-refuge.org

So I picked up an FP11-A this week. Looks like it might need some over-the-top connectors to hook it up to my 11/34 (whenever I get that all put together...). Anyone have any idea what I need as far as connectors/cables/etc and what exactly it hooks to in the CPU cardset/backplane? Thanks, Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCAC --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org

20 years

3
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Recommendations for operating system

by dm561＠torfree.net

Considering the amount of bandwidth wasted here on other OT topics (and often also on On-topic issues), it seems pretty picayune to waste even more on whether a P70 is OT or not. Much better to just let it go by than to add more dross to the pile, in my opinion. Interesting that discussions about (e.g.) whether hydrochloric acid is toxic don't trigger the same kind of response... Besides, if everyone felt that it was OT, they wouldn't reply; apparently many people thought it wasn't. However, it would be nice if words like f***ing were avoided. Just my contribution to the pile... mike

20 years

2
1
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Recommendations for operating system

by bob099＠centurytel.net

I think that this just squeaks in as being on topic. I am looking for suggestions for an operating system for a PC, specs 75 MHZ Pentium, 16 MB Ram, 4 GB HD, currently running PC-DOS Ver 7. Original IBM PC-DOS right out of the factory sealed box. I am thinking about putting GEM on the machine, maybe CP/M-86. Thought about GEOS, but rejected it, too closed. Specs seem too tight for Linux or BSD, or at least little advantage over DOS or CP/M. Anyone have experience with an operating system that might work, and be capable of useful work?

20 years

12
17
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"File types"

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

IRIX seems to use some variant of the "magic number" database to assign file type in Indigo Magic. The association between the file type and default application is, however, extremely involved and obscure. I like the use of FTR, though.

20 years

2
1
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This is the classiccmp list

by frustum＠pacbell.net

Sorry for contributing to the spam level, but you have to break an egg, etc. I promise that if anybody replies, I won't reply to the classiccmp list. There are hundreds of people on this list; most post infrequently, if at all. It seems that 5% of the list have a hair trigger that demands that they respond to every message. That would be fine, but it seems like at least 50% of such messages are WAY OFF TOPIC. Yes, I'm shouting, and yes I'm making up numbers. All of these hundreds of people are very smart and know many things. Most of the sense to exercise some self control and not jump in at every opportunity to demonstrate their knowledge, or worse, their unsupported opinions. The ONLY thing that gives cctalk value is that it has a charter. There are untold avenues on the internet if you want to have free ranging discourse. Before you hit send on your next message to cctalk, ask yourself these intertwined questions: (1) Why am I not sending this as a private reply? Is it just your ego wanting to be seen as a smart person that needs a large audience? If John Public says cheese tastes bad, send John Public a private message if you want to tell him he is wrong; the rest of us don't need to know about it. (2) What new information is this message offering? Is it worth the time of 600 people (or whatever) even if all they need to do his scan the subject line and hit delete? This isn't IRC, so hopefully posts will be more thoughtful than that. (3) Is this message still about classic computers? Yes, the guy you are responding to might have thought it was OK, but that doesn't mean it was. Fight the drift. If you must reply, see #1. (4) If you still can't help yourself, do the next best thing, a practice that has seems to have disappeared. Reply with your marginal response, then add some on-topic tidbit to at least give a little nourishment to the list. "Obligatory classiccmp content: blah blah" for example. (5) Even if you ignore #1-#4, recognize subject drift and change the subject line. The "scanning formats" thread, which started on-topic, is now an umbrella for six different (mostly off-topic) threads. Yup, some of those off-topic threads had interesting content, but this is not the forum for it. If you want to argue it, then imagine if everyone who was into photography wanted to talk about interesting techniques, or everyone interested in politics wanted to talk about interesting power plays and developments, etc, etc.

20 years

3
3
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definitive ruling needed on OT

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

I've seen it used to seemingly mean both OnTopic and OffTopic. Which is it? What is the abbreviation of the other term?

20 years

5
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Recommendations for operating system

by bob099＠centurytel.net

My little question generated a lot more heat than I expected. I will be going with my original ideal of using DOS with GEM as the GUI. Too many acronyms there? A lot of software avaliable for DOS and GEM provides a "different" shell. OS/2 sounds interesting, I have Warp 3 in a box somewhere, with many disc to install with, want to bet that the last one or two would be bad? I am already running Linux, Win XP, and WIN 2000 on other machines, home and work. Maybe I should have asked about a Laser 128 (Apple II clone) or maybe a DecMate III?

20 years

2
1
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cctalk Digest, Vol 36, Issue 86

by dm561＠torfree.net

----------Original message From: Don <THX1138 at dakotacom.net> Subject: Votrax TNT, PSS, et al. "bricks" Hi, Has anyone reverse engineered any of these products requiring *external* power supplies (bricks)? E.g., *not* the VS6.x devices but, rather, the "consumer-ish" devices mentioned in the subject line? I have several and wonder if the different models share a common power supply design. Or, if I'll have to disembowel a few of them to sort it all out. Thanks! --don ----------Reply: Coincidentally, I've got a VSS on the desk in front of me without a PS and was just investigating the same thing. There was a post here a while back very helpfully listing the pins & voltages (20VDC & 28VAC IIRC); I believe it also said that the PSs were _not_ the same for various different models. Let me know what you find pls. TNX, mike

20 years

2
1
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ebay bet pays off (Ohio Scientific)

by wh.sudbrink＠verizon.net

I have to crow a little about this... There was an auction last week of Ohio Scientific literature on ebay. I looked at it and, at first, I thought I had everything in the lot. Then I looked again and realized that I didn't recognize the little (difficult to see) pamphlet in the upper right corner of the lot photo. I thought about it for a few days and wondered whether it could be one of their first pamphlets. I decided "what the heck" I'll bid if it doesn't get too expensive. Well, I won the lot. It just arrived today and sure enough that little pamphlet is one of the first (if not the first) ad pamphlets from OSI. It introduces the original Challenger (no 1, 2, etc.) available with 6502 or 6800 processors, the original Superboard (Model 400, not the SuperboardII Model 600) and the Model 300 6502 trainer with the Superboard upgrade program (buy a fully assembled Model 300, keep it for up to two months and then trade it in for a Model 400 kit). Happy, happy, happy! -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/428 - Release Date: 8/25/2006

20 years

2
1
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C64 Packet carts

by wdonzelli＠gmail.com

I have a pair of cartridges for the C64, headed to the trash: AEA Com Fax AEA Com Pakratt I have not looked into these, but AEA makes packet stuff for ham radio. Anyone want these things for postage? Obviously very light and small. -- Will

20 years

2
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Age cutoff, was: Recommendations for operating system

by aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk

--- William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote: > > Both places have noise problems. On the web > forums it is generally a 'less > > professional' audience > > That is an interesting use of the word > "professional". I find the > members of this list extremely non-professional in > their list conduct, > and yes, it all comes down to the noise level. The re > are way too many > people here that like to post off topic threads, o r > steer threads very > off topic. Sure, a little happens - even I have do ne > my bit - but not > stretching out OT threads for days at a time, with > dozens of messages. > The > people on this list > are by far the worst offenders for disregarding li st > charters and > rules. Very little self control, and too lazy to > post off topic > questions on the myriad of other lists that are > online. Why is this? > Also, does it not bother these people > that obviously the > whole OT issue has been brought up before, and > generates flames and > anger for many list members? > > -- > Will > Sheesh. All you had to do was say a line or two, but no you had to write several paragraphs rambling on. Also, the main point of me posting, this IS CCtalk, that is designed to cover *on topic* AND *off topic* posts, so why all this fuss. If you wanted *on topic* posts ONLY then why didn't you sign up for CCtech, which only deals with *on topic* posts. If his reply was to cctech and was sent to us cctalk members, then I apologise. If that was the case then perhaps cctech members should be asked (or nudged) onto the cctalk list? Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk

20 years

2
1
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INS8073 interface?

by jwhitton＠bellsouth.net

On the off chance that this address is still good.., I'm seeking app. notes for the INS8073 Tiny Basic chip. Thanks, John

20 years

3
2
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Votrax TNT, PSS, et al. "bricks"

by THX1138＠dakotacom.net

Hi, Has anyone reverse engineered any of these products requiring *external* power supplies (bricks)? E.g., *not* the VS6.x devices but, rather, the "consumer-ish" devices mentioned in the subject line? I have several and wonder if the different models share a common power supply design. Or, if I'll have to disembowel a few of them to sort it all out. Thanks! --don

20 years

1
0
0 0

Age cutoff, was: Recommendations for operating system

by dm561＠torfree.net

---------Original message: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 13:32:30 -0400 From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan at snarc.net> Subject: RE: Age cutoff, was: Recommendations for operating system But communities like the web forum at www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum and the group blog at http://community.livejournal.com/vintagecomputer/ are growing faster than classiccmp, at least to my perception. Why? ---------Reply: The elitism and inflexibility seen in the current discussion perhaps? More dross on the pile... m

20 years

1
0
0 0

Age cutoff, was: Recommendations for operating system

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> A Google > search for a specific item will show hits on the vcforum and most likely the > livejournal site you listed, but nothing would come up for an email list. classiccmp.org archives all of the mail through a web interface (which is how I QUICKLY scan over all the drek, I NEVER actually receive it as mail) and Google picks posting here just fine, thank you.

20 years

1
0
0 0

Recommendations for operating system

by mtapley＠swri.edu

At 7:25 -0500 8/28/06, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote: >I am looking for suggestions for an operating system for a PC, specs 75 >MHZ Pentium, 16 MB Ram, 4 GB HD, currently running PC-DOS Ver 7. Depending very heavily on what motherboard, video card, etc. you have, NeXTStep 3.3. 16MB is thinner than what you'd like, but 4 G hard drive is fine and if the disk is fast enough, swap should not be a horrible problem. -- - Mark Cell Phone: 210-379-4635 office: 210-522-6025

20 years

1
0
0 0

Recommendations for operating system

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

Look at BeOS Max or BeOS DevEd. Good, fast OSes, and downloadable freely. Application availability is somewhat on the spotty end, though. OS/2 (not sure about the UNIX environment) doesn't come with headers/compilers, and IBM doesn't sell the devel kit anymore (and it was very pricy when they did). I think you can get StarOffice, though.

20 years

1
0
0 0

Recommendations for operating system

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

> >Subject: Re: Recommendations for operating system > From: "Hans Franke" <Hans.Franke at siemens.com> > Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:19:15 +0200 > To: Choctaw Bob <bob099 at centurytel.net>, > "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Now, coming back to systems, I still give out P166-P233MMX systems to >people. A good configuration to run Office I found would be: > >P200 >64 MB RAM >4+ Gig drive as C with all Apps >4+ Gig drive partitioned as Z/D where Z is a 512 MB dedicated swap. >1 DVD drive (if possible a writer at 40 Euro) >WindowsXP >Office2003 >Firefox > --------------- I suggest Warp connect in the blue box with win3.1 support built in. It would be pretty snappy on a P200 and there's plenty of apps to run, although later developed programs want version 4.0 however. You can use IBM peer on 3.0 to share files, and if you use a 3com NIC, NDIS drivers are available. Installing fixpaks is not that bad either if you use some of the free fixpak installation programs. Google for OS/2 device driver pak online and you can see what kind of hardware has drivers for it.

20 years

1
0
0 0

Recommendations for operating system

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Recommendations for operating system > From: "Hans Franke" <Hans.Franke at siemens.com> > Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:19:15 +0200 > To: Choctaw Bob <bob099 at centurytel.net>, > "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Now, coming back to systems, I still give out P166-P233MMX systems to >people. A good configuration to run Office I found would be: > >P200 >64 MB RAM >4+ Gig drive as C with all Apps >4+ Gig drive partitioned as Z/D where Z is a 512 MB dedicated swap. >1 DVD drive (if possible a writer at 40 Euro) >WindowsXP >Office2003 >Firefox > I'm not fond of MS software or OS but since it's pervasive having a good system running it for compatability is handy. The work a day box here is P166, 128mb 4.3gb, 20gb, SCSI CD writer(plextor) running NT4server no MS apps though. All the apps are non MS including Firefox and Thunderbird. Usual uptime for the system is months of 7x24 then I shutdown to clean dust of of the fans and the like. Reliability beats speed as reboots take a long time. Allison

20 years

1
0
0 0

Recommendations for operating system

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Recommendations for operating system > From: Choctaw Bob <bob099 at centurytel.net> > Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 21:13:57 -0500 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >I think that this just squeaks in as being on topic. > >I am looking for suggestions for an operating system for a PC, specs 75 >MHZ Pentium, 16 MB Ram, 4 GB HD, currently running PC-DOS Ver 7. >Original IBM PC-DOS right out of the factory sealed box. I am thinking >about putting GEM on the machine, maybe CP/M-86. Thought about GEOS, >but rejected it, too closed. >Specs seem too tight for Linux or BSD, or at least little advantage over >DOS or CP/M. > >Anyone have experience with an operating system that might work, and be >capable of useful work? On boxes of that scale I've run DOS3.11->6.22, W3.11 W95, w98, NT4*, ConcurrentDos, and OS2/Warp3. I'll add linux but stick to older distros as the newer ones are big. NT4 wants at least 32mb of ram but runs smoothly even on 33mhz 486s. However as a useful box DOS, w3.11, W95 and NT4 were the most useful as I could run a wider range of available apps. I have a p100 with 32m running w98se with two disks, boot is 500mb and D: is 4.3gb and it's a useful tool. Allison

20 years

1
0
0 0

Paper tape and 8th bit?

by dave06a＠dunfield.com

Hi Guys, I'm attempting to recover some software from paper-tape. Never actually had a PT reader in my "altair days", I fooled around with magnetic tape systems (audio and 9-track), and later went to the NorthStar disk system... Did a bit of paper-tape stuff with the university systems, but I don't recall any real details. Anyway - I'm using an OP-80A which is a very simple manual feed reader - you position a light over the unit and pull the tape through wire guides over an optical sensor and it provides parallel data. This all appears to work OK. The tape I've been testing with is a Processor Technology "BASIC VDM DRIVER" - it contains driver software for the PT VDM-1 video board. My question - Does anyone know what they are using the 8th bit for? - I get nicely readable ASCII BASIC source out of it, except that the 8th bit seems to be somewhat randomly set on certain characters. If I strip the 8th bit I get what appears to be legit BASIC code. I thought it might be parity, however this does not appear to be the case - the codes 0A (00001010) and 0D (00001101) both appear with the 8th bit clear - If the 8th bit were parity, one or the other should have it set. Other characters always have it set, for example 'T' (54) seems to always appears as (D4). I checked the tape and it's not a read-error the 9th bit is punched on certain characters.. Anyone shed some light? Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html

20 years

9
14
0 0

Good deals on PC100/133 DIMMs?

by cclist＠sydex.com

I'm upgrading some systems here and am looking for some good deals on 256MB PC100 or PC133 DIMMs. Any suggestions? (The systems are just 10 years old, so it's OT) Cheers, Chuck

20 years

5
10
0 0

I think everything's working now...

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Fellow techies (and Tekkies), Thanks to a very generous (and anonymous by request) donation of a replacement firewall/router (a Watchguard Firebox 1000), my domain and FTP archive should all be fully functional once again. Those who have been patiently (or not) to download something from the archive, please give it a try now. ftp.bluefeathertech.com User ID: Either ftp or anonymous Password: Anything you want, though I'd prefer you use your E-mail address. Thanks to all for your patience during this nasty little outage, and special thanks to our anonymous donor (you know who you are). ;-) Keep the peace(es). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?"

20 years

5
10
0 0

SGI stuff (maybe) available

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

I am in multiparty talks with a gentleman in the Seattle area who has a number of SGI machines in a storage area that he is interested in getting rid of. These include several Indigos, Indigo2s, Personal IRISes, and Crimsons (AFAIK, I am not the person in direct contact). The word is he's ready to deal on them. If anyone in the Seattle area is interested, I'm going to be going over with someone (who initiated this), probably next weekend, with a pickup to get some stuff. If something strikes your fancy, send me a offlist-message with what you want and your offer, and I can try to get it stuffed in (might not be able to get more Crimsons, we're taking 3 and an Onyx already - so those will be "space-available").

20 years

1
0
0 0

Sinclair ZX80 questions

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

I've got a ZX80 here (issue 2A) which has a keyboard overlay attached that looks very like that of a Sinclair ZX81. The ROM in the machine is dated week 16 of 1981, and carries the marking C77018, and a 1981 copyright. Is this a machine that's been subjected to a ZX81 upgrade kit or something? I wasn't aware that such a thing existed. Now, the keyboard overlay's actually removable, revealing a pristine original ZX80 legend underneath. However, two black press-fittings attach it to the PCB at the corners of the front edge - are these press fittings there on all ZX80s, or have these been added in order to secure the overlay in place? The machine came with a "ZX 16K RAM" module (red lettering) which I assume is later and more in keeping with a ZX81? Separately though I do have a module marked as "ZX80 16K Byte RAM Pack" (white lettering). Question is, are they interchangeable and the lettering was altered - or does the ZX80 variant map memory to a different location than the later red-lettered type? (I'm assuming that the expansion bus pinouts didn't change between ZX80 and the later machines!) I've also got a ROM marked as: "ROM contents copyright 1980 Sinclair Research Ltd" - is this the original ZX80 ROM (and the ROM in the machine is an upgrade), or is this likely something else entirely? Curiously there are a few stray fibres glued to the underside of the PCB - presumably these are a left-over of cheap PCB manufacture and Sinclair's horrible quality control! :-) cheers Jules -- A. Because it destroys the natural flow of conversation. Q. What's wrong with top posting ?

20 years

20
62
0 0

Paper tape and 8th bit?

by bqt＠softjar.se

"Dave Dunfield" <dave06a at dunfield.com> wrote: >>> If you look at the preceding character, is there any correlation to the 8th >>> bit of the next one? The 8th bit just might be garbage left over and not >>> masked out. > > >None that I can tell - Also, the 8th bit is punched on the tape with the >character - It seems unlikely that PT would have punched a tape in error >that way (with garbage left over from the previous character in the >8th bit) - although stranger things HAVE happened... > > > >>> It could be binary.The driver is loaded in the top of memory, and >>> seems to patch over a TTY driver. I don't have manual handy >>> but it does have a bootstrap loader @ 80H I think, the first >>> 256 bytes to load in a hex loader. > > >I have the manuals as well - this is the BASIC VDM driver, which I >don't believe has a loader. > >Here is a HEX dump of the first 256 bytes retrieved from the tape >(after the string of 00s occuring in the leader). > >0000 0D 0A 00 00 0D 0A 00 00 30 20 52 45 CD 0D 0A 00 ........0 RE.... >0010 00 32 20 52 45 CD 20 20 3C 3C 3C 20 20 42 41 53 .2 RE. <<< BAS >0020 49 43 20 54 4F 20 56 44 4D 2D 31 20 4C 49 4E 4B IC TO VDM-1 LINK >0030 20 50 52 4F 47 52 41 4D 20 20 3E 3E 3E 0D 0A 00 PROGRAM >>>... >0040 00 34 20 52 45 CD 0D 0A 00 00 36 20 52 45 CD 20 .4 RE.....6 RE. >0050 20 20 20 20 20 20 50 52 4F 43 45 53 53 4F 52 20 PROCESSOR >0060 54 45 43 48 4E 4F 4C 4F 47 59 20 43 4F 52 50 2E TECHNOLOGY CORP. >0070 0D 0A 00 00 38 20 52 45 CD 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 ....8 RE. >0080 36 32 30 30 20 48 4F 4C 4C 49 53 20 53 54 52 45 6200 HOLLIS STRE >0090 45 54 0D 0A 00 00 31 30 20 52 45 CD 20 20 20 20 ET....10 RE. >00A0 20 20 45 4D 45 52 59 56 49 4C 4C 45 2C 20 43 41 EMERYVILLE, CA >00B0 4C 49 46 4F 52 4E 49 41 20 20 20 39 34 36 30 38 LIFORNIA 94608 >00C0 0D 0A 00 00 31 32 20 50 52 49 4E D4 0D 0A 00 00 ....12 PRIN..... >00D0 31 34 20 41 24 BD 22 28 48 45 58 29 20 49 53 20 14 A$."(HEX) IS >00E0 59 4F 55 52 20 4C 41 53 54 20 41 44 44 52 45 53 YOUR LAST ADDRES >00F0 53 2C 20 49 4E 50 55 54 3A 22 0D 0A 00 00 31 36 S, INPUT:"....16 > >I have visually verified that the tape contains the binary values for the first >16 bytes as punched dots - (ie, it starts with 0D 0A 00 00 twice), then >20 20 54 45 CD 0D 0A 00 > >This is the line '0 REM', however the 'M' has the eight bit set, which makes >the code CD instead of 4D. You can see this in the remaining comments >which are visible as well. However the 'M' in 'EMERYVILLE' appears with >the high bit clear. > >You can also see that the 'T' in 'PRINT' has the high bit set. > >This is supposed to be loaded under Altair BASIC somehow (I'll have to >dig out the Altair BASIC manuals and if it sheds any light) - I thought that >perhaps this in an internal representation, and that AB sets the high bit >on the last character of reserved words ... except that 'INPUT' does not >have the high bit set on it's last character... > >I have the machine code driver as well, and I will try reading that and >see if the code disassembles into something that makes sense. > >Ultimately I will read these and other tapes and archive the code as a >raw binary dump of the tape content, however I'm trying to understand >what is recorded on the tapes so that I can verify my setup. Ho ho ho... Well, it looks pretty clear that the high bit is set at the final character of BASIC keywords. Token marker, so to speak. You've just made a big miss. The "INPUT" you're speaking of is a string constant... Look again. :-) Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

20 years

1
0
0 0

Data General Nova/Eclipse Software download

by cube1＠charter.net

I have some 9 Track images that might work. They are not distribution tapes, though. (I have some hard sector distribution floppies, but the floppy drive and controller are not hooked up -- a project for another day) These tape images are in AWS format (such as that used by the Hercules mainframe emulator), so someone would need to reformat the files -- but it shouldn't take more than a few hours of "C" coding). I have LOTS more, but need to read those pesky floppies. Jay 2363 MT CC0028 NOVA RDOS "STARTER" 12/30/88 NOVA 3/4, 1 Extra file @ end rdos_starter Memorex 35CWA1 8/7/2000 ? 2364 MT CC0029 NOVA RDOS66 "STARTER TAPE" 12/31/88 NOVA 4/X, Last file BAD rdos_66_star Memorex 27JHA9 8/7/2000 Y 2365 MT CC0030 NOVA RDOS 6.6 NOVA 4/x FDUMP Reel 1 of 2 12/31/88 rdos_66_fdum Memorex 35JWA9 8/7/2000 2366 MT CC0031 NOVA RDOS 6.6 NOVA 4/x FDUMP Reel 2 of 2 12/31/88 rdos_66_fdum Wabash 87623#1511 8/7/2000 At 08:40 AM 8/16/2006 -0400, Madcrow Maxwell wrote: >I've decided to try out the Data General emulation in SIMH and am >looking for software. Is there any place that has software for RDOS >like extra programming languages, games and productivity-type stuff? >If not is anybody willing to share? > >Mike "Madcrow" K. --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1 at charter.net

20 years

1
0
0 0

KEGS Apple IIgs emulator

by rcini＠optonline.net

All: I was playing around with the KEGS emulator and I wanted to get GS/OS working on an emulated hard disk partition. I can't seem to get the emulator to recognize the 32mb container file which is supposed to be the hard drive. Has anyone tackled this before and can give me a few pointers? Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator Web site: <http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/> http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ Web site: http://www.altair32.com/ /***************************************************/

20 years

1
0
0 0

Paper tape and 8th bit?

by dm561＠torfree.net

Looks like it marks the last (or only) byte of a BASIC keyword all right; I think the "Input" is part of the text, not a keyword. mike ------------Original messsage: Message: 32 Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 19:33:49 -0500 From: "Dave Dunfield" <dave06a at dunfield.com> Subject: Re: Paper tape and 8th bit? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <200608262337.k7QNbHXI004269 at hosting.monisys.ca> > If you look at the preceding character, is there any correlation to the 8th > bit of the next one? The 8th bit just might be garbage left over and not > masked out. None that I can tell - Also, the 8th bit is punched on the tape with the character - It seems unlikely that PT would have punched a tape in error that way (with garbage left over from the previous character in the 8th bit) - although stranger things HAVE happened... > It could be binary.The driver is loaded in the top of memory, and > seems to patch over a TTY driver. I don't have manual handy > but it does have a bootstrap loader @ 80H I think, the first > 256 bytes to load in a hex loader. I have the manuals as well - this is the BASIC VDM driver, which I don't believe has a loader. Here is a HEX dump of the first 256 bytes retrieved from the tape (after the string of 00s occuring in the leader). 0000 0D 0A 00 00 0D 0A 00 00 30 20 52 45 CD 0D 0A 00 ........0 RE.... 0010 00 32 20 52 45 CD 20 20 3C 3C 3C 20 20 42 41 53 .2 RE. <<< BAS 0020 49 43 20 54 4F 20 56 44 4D 2D 31 20 4C 49 4E 4B IC TO VDM-1 LINK 0030 20 50 52 4F 47 52 41 4D 20 20 3E 3E 3E 0D 0A 00 PROGRAM >>>... 0040 00 34 20 52 45 CD 0D 0A 00 00 36 20 52 45 CD 20 .4 RE.....6 RE. 0050 20 20 20 20 20 20 50 52 4F 43 45 53 53 4F 52 20 PROCESSOR 0060 54 45 43 48 4E 4F 4C 4F 47 59 20 43 4F 52 50 2E TECHNOLOGY CORP. 0070 0D 0A 00 00 38 20 52 45 CD 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 ....8 RE. 0080 36 32 30 30 20 48 4F 4C 4C 49 53 20 53 54 52 45 6200 HOLLIS STRE 0090 45 54 0D 0A 00 00 31 30 20 52 45 CD 20 20 20 20 ET....10 RE. 00A0 20 20 45 4D 45 52 59 56 49 4C 4C 45 2C 20 43 41 EMERYVILLE, CA 00B0 4C 49 46 4F 52 4E 49 41 20 20 20 39 34 36 30 38 LIFORNIA 94608 00C0 0D 0A 00 00 31 32 20 50 52 49 4E D4 0D 0A 00 00 ....12 PRIN..... 00D0 31 34 20 41 24 BD 22 28 48 45 58 29 20 49 53 20 14 A$."(HEX) IS 00E0 59 4F 55 52 20 4C 41 53 54 20 41 44 44 52 45 53 YOUR LAST ADDRES 00F0 53 2C 20 49 4E 50 55 54 3A 22 0D 0A 00 00 31 36 S, INPUT:"....16 I have visually verified that the tape contains the binary values for the first 16 bytes as punched dots - (ie, it starts with 0D 0A 00 00 twice), then 20 20 54 45 CD 0D 0A 00 This is the line '0 REM', however the 'M' has the eight bit set, which makes the code CD instead of 4D. You can see this in the remaining comments which are visible as well. However the 'M' in 'EMERYVILLE' appears with the high bit clear. You can also see that the 'T' in 'PRINT' has the high bit set. This is supposed to be loaded under Altair BASIC somehow (I'll have to dig out the Altair BASIC manuals and if it sheds any light) - I thought that perhaps this in an internal representation, and that AB sets the high bit on the last character of reserved words ... except that 'INPUT' does not have the high bit set on it's last character... I have the machine code driver as well, and I will try reading that and see if the code disassembles into something that makes sense. Ultimately I will read these and other tapes and archive the code as a raw binary dump of the tape content, however I'm trying to understand what is recorded on the tapes so that I can verify my setup. Regards, Dave -- dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html

20 years

1
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