- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by commodorejohn＠gmail.com

Ran into this at the electronics-surplus store just down the way from my workplace and grabbed it on the cheap. I don't actually know what it *is,* but the labels on the switches make it look a *hell* of a lot like a 16-bit general-purpose computer of some kind. Despite the claims of being "microprocessor-controlled," I looked at every board inside the thing and couldn't spot anything that looked like a 16-bit or even 8-bit CPU. Genuinely curious what this is, but I can't find much on it online - the name pops up in a few archived documents, but Bitsavers doesn't have anything for the company. Though the design is attributed to Stanley Kubota and Edward Corby - looks like Mr. Kubota still has an online presence at https://www.exsellsales.com/about-us/ so I'll have to drop them a line... Anybody heard of or encountered one of these before? http://www.commodorejohn.com/whatsit-front.jpg http://www.commodorejohn.com/whatsit-back.jpg

6 years, 5 months

7
7
0 0

SRCI for MDS to give away

by db＠db.net

I had planned on using this as a case for a project but then I noticed it still seems complete etc. and one of you lot *might* be interested. It's a blue metal steel box 30cm x 24cm x 6.4cm (I'll let you heathens work out Freedom units yourself) NWW Micro Systems on front panel marked Serial Remote Control Interface. Diane -- - db at FreeBSD.org db at db.net http://www.db.net/~db

6 years, 5 months

3
2
0 0

Toshiba "laptop"

by db＠db.net

Anyone collect these clunkers? Toshiba T6400DX Diane -- - db at FreeBSD.org db at db.net http://www.db.net/~db

6 years, 5 months

3
2
0 0

Atari stuff

by db＠db.net

Seeing as I do not have an ATARI 520 or 1040 any more I have some Atari related stuff to give away as one bundle. It's a PITA enough to package for me. Bundle is (roughly) Atari VHS tape 520 ST Instruction tape Flight simulator II pair of games (one of the disks is damaged :-( ) and Mark Williams C compiler all 5 disks. Let me know if you are interested. Diane -- - db at FreeBSD.org db at db.net http://www.db.net/~db

6 years, 5 months

1
1
0 0

VCF Berlin

by aap＠papnet.eu

So many VCFs happening in the US but we have them in Europe too! VCF Berlin is not even two months away (Oct 12th and 13th) and you can still register as an exhibitor till Sept 8th. Our special topic this year will be Computer from Germany. The show will be located at the Technikmuseum (do I need to translate that?) which is itself worth a visit. So please attend, as exhibitor or visitor, admission is free! For more information and a list of exhibitions see https://vcfb.de/2019/index.html.en https://vcfb.de/2019/ausstellungen.html.en Hope to see you there, Angelo/aap

6 years, 5 months

3
4
0 0

Wang PC Available in Seattle Area

by silent700＠gmail.com

I have been contacted by a gentleman in the Seattle, WA area who would like to put a Wang PC240 system into the hands of a collector rather than see it scrapped. The system includes the custom Wang keyboard (with extra function keys and Wang "EXECUTE" key!), a 20MB half-height Seagate drive and 5.25" DD floppy drive. There is no monitor included but I believe it used a regular CGA signal. Manuals are included but no software. I have not seen the system and have no interest in its sale. Please direct all inquiries to Dave Felice at gelato321 at aol.com. -j

6 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

cctech Digest, Vol 60, Issue 2

by commodorejohn＠gmail.com

> How about some pictures of what was inside. A picture that is atleast good > enough to see what is there. > Dwight I did also take a photo of the interior, though nothing you'd be able to read the chip designations on: http://www.commodorejohn.com/whatsit-interior.jpg My rough guesstimate is that the boards in the backplane are memory and I/O options (two of them have cables going to the back panel, the rest are apparently identical,) while the core functionality is on the large board on the left and the second large board below it (which is where the cable from the front panel go.)

6 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

cctalk Digest, Vol 60, Issue 1

by pechter＠gmail.com

Re:Re: So what the heck did I just pick up? My guess is some type of interface between 1970's vintage Storage Technologies gear and some test equipment and the Tape subsystem. Perhaps a bus switch. The clue is the STC Red and Black property number on the back -- that mates the Storage Tek (then Storage Technologies Corp. colors in their early days... So it's either something they purchased or bought. The vintage look and 64 bit width makes me figure it was either some kind of tape bus switch/diag panel for manufacturing or field service use. 64 bits wide would be 2x32 bit word size. Perhaps they built a diag box that sat before the IBM channel to let them debug tape data transfers. The other thought is some kind of key to tape alternative keypunch system... Bill -- d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now! pechter-at-gmail.com ****** >

6 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

DecNet / Linux

by john＠yoyodyne-propulsion.net

Say, can anyone tell me which version of the kernel was the last one to work with Decnet? Does anyone know what the actual issues are? My friend who does kernel stuff wants to know. -- Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow" Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net -------- "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -- Jonathan Swift

6 years, 6 months

9
17
0 0

So what the heck did I just pick up?

by w9gb＠icloud.com

Beautiful front panel (1970s design). It would make a nice front panel for a DIY Computer. ? It is an RS-423 control/switch panel. RS-423 is an EIA/TIA serial communications standard, BUT there is no common pinout (standard) for RS-423. == RS-232 was defined in 1962 by the Electronics Industry Association (now the Electronics Industry Alliance). Control of the standards definition was passed over to the Telecommunications Industry Association in 1988. Since then, standards documents relating to RS-232 are referenced by the code ?TIA.? The standard is currently known as TIA-232-F. RS-432 was a faster version of RS-232 ? BUT it was not widely adopted. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-423 The BBC Micro computer used a 5-pin DIN connector. DEC used it with their Modified Modular Jack (MMJ) connector. This was sometimes called "DEC-423". RS-432 was implemented in Apple Mac computers and the Enterprise 64 and 128 models. All other hardware manufacturers stuck with RS-232. g. beat elmhurst, is Midwest VCF : September 14-15, 2019 http://vcfmw.org/ Sent from iPad Air

6 years, 6 months

3
2
0 0

TRS-80 Fireworks

by marvin＠west.net

I'm just curious how many people have powered up their TRS-80 computers, and ended up with a bang and a room filled with smoke? So far, I've gotten the fireworks in two out of two TRS-80s (model 3 and 4) when they were powered up. In both cases, the problem was with the main line filter capacitor mounted on one of the power supplies. The computers continued to work which was my first clue the problem was not serious :). Is this a normal problem with these older computers? I'm used to seeing the electrolytics give problems, but this is the first time I've seen one of the X type line filter caps blow.

6 years, 6 months

20
26
0 0

test

by shumaker＠att.net

Apologies for the question marks in the previous post? - Thunderbird reverts occasionally.????? test?? It should be fixed now. Steve

6 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

Classic HP DesignJet Plotter

by shumaker＠att.net

OK...?? it isn't Versatec or Calcomp but it is early HP.?? It's a DesignJet 755CM.?? HP part number is C3198B.?? It was fully functional and in weekly used when finally taken out of service but it's been sitting for 20+ years in inside storage and it needs a new home. I haven't fired it up as it *will* need new belts (just from sitting) but otherwise it should be in fairly good mechanical/electronic condition. Lots of tech data including the complete service manual can be found online. It needs a new home. Any interest? Physically/cosmetically it's in good shape although the paper bin is not original.?? Its mounted on the classic DesignJet stand for mobility and I have a box of assorted unused/sealed ink cartridges (beyond that, their status is totally unk though).?? I can probably find a roll of paper for it as well. Located in the SF Bay area, it *could* be shipped but I suspect you don't want go there - even if I boxed it myself.?? If there's a serious interest, I'd be open to delivering it or meeting part way.?? Obviously, I can part it out or just e-waste it but those seem like such a shame to do. I could email some photos off-list if there's anyone interested. Steve

6 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

SMD disks

by new_castle_j＠yahoo.com

With SMD disks even harder to come by than MFM disks, has there been any plug-in replacements developed for them? I've seen MFM disk emulators, haven't seen SMD ones though, anyone know if they exist?

6 years, 6 months

4
3
0 0

Current MANX location

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Zane Healy > What I found really odd was that it had part numbers and manual names > from one version, but when I clicked on the links it said no known > version online. They try and list all known DEC manuals and print sets that ever existed, so just because something is listed in the index page (and has a subsidiary page which is linked from there), doesn't mean there's a known copy online. If you look in the "Status" column on the index page, it will be blank if no online copy is known, or "Online" if there is a copy (to which they link, through the subsidiary page). I have mixed reactions to it. I use it some, often to see if something is online at all. (If I buy a manual, I usually check, to see if I need to scan it, and get it to Al. Have a backlog at the moment, sigh.) The problem is that there are 'false negatives'; i.e. entries where they say 'none known online', but which are available. E.g. KE11-A Field Maintenance Print Set http://manx-docs.org/details.php/1,9358 KE11-B Field Maintenance Print Set http://manx-docs.org/details.php/1,9361 Both listed as not online, but they are: the KE11-A is on Bitsavers, and the KE11-B I also just found (IIRC, on one of the collections they list as indexed). So I'd use it as a 'first stop', but don't depend on the negatives to be accurate - do a Web seach if it pans out. Noel

6 years, 6 months

5
4
0 0

Looking for ... Sun 3 VME slot covers

by aperry＠snowmoose.com

I am looking for 3 VME slot covers for a Sun 3/260. I presume ones from any Sun 3 VME cabinet will work. For shipping purposes, I am in the Seattle area. alan

6 years, 6 months

1
1
0 0

Phi-Deck schematics

by aek＠bitsavers.org

Does anyone have the schematic or manual for the version of the Phi-Deck that had the servoed Universal Motion Control capstan or the remote control box? A picture is up under http://bitsavers.org/pdf/phitech/pictures/phi-deck_motion_ctl.JPG

6 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

TRS-80 Fireworks

by marvin＠west.net

While getting ready to order some Kemet caps from Digi-key (same P/N posted earlier), I noticed they all had "RIFA" on them. Is this a big OOPS to order them, or would they be okay? I tend to prefer fixing something once :). Marvin

6 years, 6 months

4
3
0 0

Decaying foam on PCBs

by jules.richardson99＠gmail.com

I picked up a couple of HP 5036A logic trainers today, both of which have had goopy decaying foam come into contact on their PCBs. What's effective at removing it? I've only ever had problems with it in locations where I can use things such as citrus-based cleaners, but I'm a bit wary of using those around a PCB. Is regular Dawn/water likely to work? thanks! Jules

6 years, 6 months

4
4
0 0

Photos from VCF West 2019

by bkp＠bkp.net

Thought I would share some photos I took of VCF West this past weekend in Mountain View, CA. https://photos.app.goo.gl/gF6Sd34SxQMzJEZPA Brian

6 years, 6 months

8
7
0 0

VCFMW DEC items (and compatibles)

by useddec＠gmail.com

If anybody wants any DEC items brought up there for pickup or to do any trading, please let me know so I can plan accordingly. If you want to stop by here, please make arrangements ASAP. I plan on going up Friday afternoon and returning Saturday evening. Thanks, Paul

6 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Too many DEC binders

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Antonio Carlini > I think the best thing to do would be to get the data into manx. Manx > feels like the right tool for finding manuals. Yes, I agree. Replicating the data, in a system which isn't organized to hold it (i.e. the CHWiki) would be a desperation move, only to be taken if nothing else was available. > From: Matt Burke > I think his address is legalize at xmission.com. Ah, thanks very much for that; I'll give that a whirl. > Let me know how you get on I will report back here (hopefully there will be news). Noel

6 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Too many DEC binders

by shadoooo＠gmail.com

Hello, yes, bitsavers and the efforts of Al are invaluable! Considering that I'm referring only to DEC PDFs, but the archive is indeed far more vast then this, the time to maintain all of it is way over what normal people would dedicate to free time jobs... simply that could mean that Al is a superhero itself? :) On the other side, for ignorant people like me, not knowing exactly what and where find the right document, browsing over the sea of documents, and over several sites (without knowing the exact list of addresses either) could be difficult... I really appreciate the folder sorting based of bitsavers, while other archives with a flat list of files with the bare document code (no human readable title) really needs an index at least... I could scan all of my documents with a specified resolution and lossless compression, even if these are duplicates of Carlini's, so these can be added to bitsavers. Could it be considered useful? Thanks Andrea

6 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

Too many DEC binders

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

Starting around the VMS 5.5 era, isn?t anything from then or later on the Condist documentation CD?s? And thus we don?t have to make a priority for scanning? Tim N3QE

6 years, 6 months

6
5
0 0

Too many DEC binders

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Al Kossow > I don't even have time to deal with all of my paper. Understood. A huge 'thank you' for all the work you have put in, to saving and making available a massive quantity of old documentation. Given that we have stuff scattered across a number of sites, rather than bringing it all to one location, maybe we just need a single site with pointers to them all. Oh, wait... I guess I should see if Richard Thomson (he's the last name on: http://manx-docs.org/about.php so I assume it's still him) needs/could use help updating Manx content; anyone know how to reach him (no contact info anywhere on the site)? I guess if that fails, I could include links to online manuals in CHWiki pages. That would be a massive campaign, even just the PDP-11 hardware and PDP-10 hardware (all I'd want to do) would be weeks of works. There's no way I could do all the other stuff on Bitsavers (e.g. PDP-10, -11 software, all the VAX stuff - and that's just DEC). Noel

6 years, 6 months

3
2
0 0

Shipping from Europe to USA

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Jon Elson > I have NEVER had even the SLIGHTEST damage with FedEx, even their > ground service. This could just be statistical chance This. I once had FexEx Ground destroy the entire packaging of a shipment (one of those rigid plastic tubs, sealed closed with those tension tapes) so badly they had to build entirely new packaging for it. Assume _all_ shippers will throw your item across the room, and pack accordingly - because they will. Noel

6 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

Mac SE (HD/FD) and 40GB APS Tech HDD

by david＠kdbarto.org

I?ve just come into possession of both of these units. The Mac has a 20MB internal HD and doesn?t startup. There is no happy mac or boot chime. The video is just a single line in the middle of the screen. The HDD spins up and wants to be formatted by any Mac I?ve got that has USB on it. If anyone wants either of these let me know (San Diego area of California). If I hear nothing both will go to the electronic recycler next Saturday. David

6 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Too many DEC binders

by shadoooo＠gmail.com

Hello, I also have a bunch of manuals, mainly for rt11, which aren't available in bitsavers. I always thought of bitsavers as the "whole" archive for DEC stuff, however time ago, sorting these manuals, I found they where available only on Manx or Antonio Carlini's archive. Many manuals then are available on other sites, etc Now the question: why collected manuals from other sites couldn't be added to bitsavers too? Thanks Andrea

6 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

Shipping from Europe to USA

by tosteve＠yahoo.com

How do I ship a 50 pound computer from Europe to the United States? Who has good rates? Thanks- Steve

6 years, 6 months

12
14
0 0

ADM-3A question

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

Today I got home and my Mouser order had arrived. I soldered in the new 6-position DIP switch and popped a new 1488 in the socket. Nice RS232 data coming out... for about 10 seconds, then the transmit data line went to around +2 volts and stayed there. WTF. Tried another one, same thing. Went back to the first new chip, same thing - so it's not blown (and maybe the old one wasn't either). OK, it has to be the power supplies. Again. Sure enough, +12 was sinking slowly until it was near zero at which point the RS232 output basically went floating... This looked familiar and it didn't take long to discover that the CT on the transformer for the + and - 12 volt supplies was open again!! This time it was the wire from the transformer broken as it entered the Molex connector. Fixed that, back in business. I am amazed that none of the epoxy drop tantalums on the high leg with the open neutral have blown. Maybe they're open circuit :) Also I don't know what gorilla at the salvage place was connecting/disconnecting until he found a combo of base, board and monitor that worked. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

6 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Too many DEC binders

by aaron＠aaronsplace.co.uk

I have a full book case of DEC binders, each containing one or more manuals. I went through the lot of it this evening and checked to see what was on bitsavers. It seems an awful lot of it is not available. I cannot bring myself to dispose of any of it until it is digitised, but keeping hold of this much paper is not practical for me. I'm going to try to scan as much as I can. The full list of what I have is available at the link below. It is mostly mid 1980's VAX/VMS stuff.. If anyone would like one of the manuals for the cost of shipping, I'd gladly send it over to you. http://aaronsplace.co.uk/dec-manuals.html *** If there is anything you consider a priority in terms of being scanned, please let me know and I'll try to do it sooner, rather than later. *** Finally, I'd like to mention that these manuals came from a friend, Marc, who passed away early last year. Marc used to be somewhat active on this list (more so the #classiccmp IRC channel). A friend of Marc will be participating in a walk for the Campaign Against Living Miserably (CALM) charity. If anyone is willing to donate (even a small amount), it would mean a lot to me. CALM is a charity supporting men who suffer from depression - one of the leading killers of men under 45 in the UK. https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/losthourswalk2019inmemoryofmarc Many thanks, Aaron

6 years, 6 months

5
14
0 0

Raspberry Pi write cycles

by john＠ziaspace.com

> But then it turned out not to be the load at all. No matter what I ran > on that Pi, it would corrupt its SD cards in a matter of weeks (the > symptom was that the fourth bit of some bytes would just stick on). I > assume it was just something broken in the Pi itself. You can simply root off of a USB disk by changing the "root=" parameter in cmdline.txt on the FAT partition on your SD card. Since the card won't otherwise be used unless you mount it if you do this, your next card should last forever. I've got a Suptronics x830 board and enclosure with an 8 TB drive which boots this way. Any Pi processor newer than the original ARM1176JZ should run NetBSD pretty well. My 900 MHz Pi 2 runs NetBSD/vax almost as fast as a VAXstation 4000/30 (VLC), which is about 5 VUPS. An original Pi or Pi Zero should be able to emulate a VAX at least as fast as an 11/780. One issue with CPU intensive things on Raspberry Pis is that even if your power supply provides plenty of current, the slightest drop in voltage can cause throttling. If you know your power supply is good but see a lightning symbol anyway, add "avoid_warnings=2" to config.txt on your SD card's FAT partition. John

6 years, 6 months

4
3
0 0

Update: Shipping 50 lb computer from Zell am See, Austria to CA.

by tosteve＠yahoo.com

Well, I knew the computer, just not the city. It's Zell am See, a small town in western Autria, far from everywhere it seems. The computer is a Datapoint 2200 - 50lbs, 10x19x20 inches. I want to get it shipped to Calfornia, where I live. The cheapest option is to just use local Austria mail, but max dimensions are 60x60x100cm, or 23.5x23.5x40 inches. That would leave just 2-inches on each of two sides for padding. Best option - remove the plastic cover and mail it separately. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the entire bottom of the computer seems to be a solid piece of metal, like the Apple III = very strudy. The back is a giant metal heat sink. I think it's do-able, do you? Steve.

6 years, 6 months

3
2
0 0

bit-slice and microcode discussion list

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Jon Elson >> On 08/22/2019 12:47 PM, Tom Uban via cctalk wrote: >> On a possible related note, I am looking for information on converting >> CISC instructions to VLIW RISC. > I think it might end up looking a bit like the optimizers that were > used on drum memory computers back in the dark ages. I dunno; those were all about picking _addresses_ for instructions, such that the next instruction was coming up to the heads as the last one completed. The _order_ of execution wasn't changed, there was no issue of contention for computing elements, etc - i.e. all the things ones think of a CISC->VLIW translation as doing. Noel

6 years, 6 months

4
3
0 0

bit-slice and microcode discussion list

by spacewar＠gmail.com

On another mailing list, someone asked if there was any list specifically about bit-slice design and microcoding. I don't know of one, so I've created a new mailing list specifically for those topics: http://lists.brouhaha.com/mailman/listinfo/bit-slicers The intent is for the list to cover technical discussion of bit-slice hardware design and/or microcoding. In other words, discussion of microcoding that doesn't use bit-slice hardware is fine.

6 years, 6 months

7
6
0 0

KE11-A craze (Was: Current MANX location)

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Ethan Dicks >> Speaking of KE11-A's, does anyone know what's behind the bidding wars >> on recent eBay KE11-A component board listings, e.g.: >> >> https://www.ebay.com/itm/372685033144 > Perhaps someone has a broken KE11-A Must be two such people, though - I was neither of the top two bidders. Odd for there to be so much interest in them. Noel

6 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

IBM PT-2

by BHuntsman＠mail2.cu-portland.edu

Anyone know anything about this?? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vtg-1980-IBM-PT-2-Computer-Hall-Effect-Magnet-Keyb…

6 years, 6 months

8
9
0 0

KE11-A craze (Was: Current MANX location)

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> KE11-A Field Maintenance Print Set > http://manx-docs.org/details.php/1,9358 Speaking of KE11-A's, does anyone know what's behind the bidding wars on recent eBay KE11-A component board listings, e.g.: https://www.ebay.com/itm/372685033144 AFAIK, the boards (a complete set is an M7210, M7211, M827, and two M234's) are pretty useless without the custom backplane, so do some people have such, or do they not know they need the backplane, or what? I do have a couple of BB11's (they came in an old custom interface I bought), and the KE11-A FMPS includes the backplane wiring, so if I were interested enough to devote the time to wiring a replacement backplane, I could probably get one running, but they aren't _that_ interesting... Noel

6 years, 6 months

3
2
0 0

RL02s not available

by wdonzelli＠gmail.com

RLs are spoken for! -- Will

6 years, 6 months

2
2
0 0

KE11-A craze (Was: Current MANX location)

by paulp1＠gmail.com

I was one of the bidders. I have a KE11 backplane and it is populated. I just wanted some spare boards. You don't see these boards that often. I am hoping that a backplane would appear too. The seller seems to have some early pdp11 backplanes. Paul >> KE11-A Field Maintenance Print Set > http://manx-docs.org/details.php/1,9358 >Speaking of KE11-A's, does anyone know what's behind the bidding wars on recent eBay >KE11-A >component board listings, e.g.: https://www.ebay.com/itm/372685033144 > AFAIK, the boards (a complete set is an M7210, M7211, M827, and two M234's) are pretty useless > > without the custom backplane, so do some people have such, or do they not know they need the > > backplane, or what?

6 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Kaypro 4/84 and 10 for sale

by geneb＠deltasoft.com

Please see this post: http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?71265-Kaypros-for-sale! thanks! g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

6 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

PDP-11/34's with Octal Programmers Console (Model A or C) and the rest of the peripherals; etc.

by S2ci.777＠Live.COM

Hi Jim, Do you still have any systems and/or peripherals left? I'm looking for a PDP-11/34 Model A or C (Preferably C) with the Octal Programmers Console and Digital Display along with peripherals. Please let me know what you have. Would you be willing to accept monthly payments because I'm a disabled vet and get paid within the first week of each month? I have a pickup truck and I'm coming from the Cleburne, TX area. Would be willing to meet you half way. Looking forward to your reply. Most sincere and all the best, Scott

6 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

RL02s available

by wdonzelli＠gmail.com

I have a pair of RL02 drives available, and can bring them to VCFmw in about three weeks. Pretty cheap. Untested. Contact me off list. -- Will

6 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

DEC Scalps

by pbirkel＠gmail.com

https://www.ebay.com/itm/312738923353 Sez: "Older DEC PDP console face-plates DEC PDP 11/55 rare, PDP 8-straight 8 'glass'rare, PDP 8/L, PDP 8/I, DEC TU58 status/diag. Panel . All in goodshape. $1000 for the lot or $200 apiece. " -----

6 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

KE11-B manuals (Was: Current MANX location)

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> KE11-B Field Maintenance Print Set > http://manx-docs.org/details.php/1,9361 > the KE11-B I also just found (IIRC, on one of the collections they list > as indexed). Oh, speaking of KE11-B's, does anyone have either the Technical or User's manual for it (I couldn't locate either)? It appears to be a program-compatible re-implementation of the KE11-A, on a single hex board, but it'd be nice to confirm that, and find out more about it. E.g. does it go in a MUD slot? (Yes, with the prints, I could eventually work out the answers to most questions - the prints do contain the PROM contents - but I'm lazy... :-) Noel

6 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

eBay: 1982 Prime Computer

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

This is listed under the informative title "vintage computer": http://www.ebay.com/itm/291934825422 which leads me to post it here under a more informative title, hoping that someone here has a soft spot for Primes! Noel

6 years, 6 months

14
26
0 0

Current MANX location

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> They try and list all known DEC manuals and print sets Ooops, my mistake; the coverage is much wider than that (they default to DEC). On the home page, there's a pull-down menu labelled "Company", which lists over 100. > From: "Paul Birkel" <pbirkel at gmail.com> >> the KE11-B I also just found (IIRC, on one of the collections they list >> as indexed). > Please share a pointer to the location of that document Here: http://wwcm.synology.me/pdf/KE11-B%20Arithmetic%20Unit%20Engineering%20Draw… It was in someone's clone of Wilber Williams' Computer Museum (UQ Museum of IT), which is indeed in Manx's list of sites they included. ('.me' is Montenegro, and Synology is some Taiwanese tech company.) The whole list is here: http://wwcm.synology.me/scanned.html They have a lot of good stuff (I just found an MD10 brochure there, which is AFAIK the only piece of MD10 documentation left in the world, other than a section in a PDP-10 manual). I need to go through it and see what else they have that I'm missing... Noel

6 years, 6 months

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Current MANX location

by johnhreinhardt＠thereinhardts.org

On 8/20/2019 11:08 PM, John H. Reinhardt wrote: > On 8/20/2019 10:37 PM, Zane Healy wrote: >>> On Aug 20, 2019, at 5:16 PM, John H. Reinhardt via cctalk<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: >>> >>> On 8/20/2019 1:51 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: >>>>> On Aug 20, 2019, at 11:43 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> From: Glen Slick >>>>>> This? >>>>> Yes; thanks! >>>>> >>>>> I don't know it didn't show up in my Web searches - I tried a number of >>>>> different things, no luck. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Also,http://manx.classiccmp.org/ (which is the medium-old URL I had for it) >>>>> redirects to something that has no working link to Manx; probably ought to fix >>>>> it to go to the new location. >>>>> >>>>> Noel >>>> Stupid question. What is MANX? I?d thought that it was an alternate source of manuals. To my disappointment, the manuals that turned up when I searched it, apparently don?t exist online anywhere. >>>> >>>> Zane >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> It's kind of like an internet index. Most (if not all?) of the entries are pointers to where the document is (or was) located. I've run across some dead links but most seem to be current. At least the stuff I've searched for. >>> >>> -- >>> John H. Reinhardt >> Leave it to me to search for obscure stuff, like manuals for DEC ALL-IN-1, or DEC Ada. What I found really odd was that it had part numbers and manual names from one version, but when I clicked on the links it said no known version online. >> >> Zane >> >> >> > Anyway... What version of the ADA manuals are you looking for?? VSI has some for an Alpha Version 3.5 that they scraped off the HP site before they disappeared.? I have some older VAX ConDists that might have ADA documentation. > > Some links that still work: > > Master SLP/ODL Index 1997- 2017 <http://h30266.www3.hpe.com/masterindex/Consolidations_external.shtml> > > Just Checked.? I have the 1999 Q3 (Sept) SPL and ODL which should have VAX ADA V3.5 binaries and Documentation.? Are there Hobbyist PAKs for them? > > > -- > John H. Reinhardt Here's the link the the VSI "Legacy" documentation page.? The Ada there is V3.5 for Alpha but if you want VAX I would think that it's close. -- John H. Reinhardt

6 years, 6 months

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When it rains it pours

by aek＠bitsavers.org

Last year, we finally found a complete set of Sun-1 boot proms. I was going through some old floppies tonight, and I think I've found a slightly later version that I'd dumped in 1987 http://bitsavers.org/pdf/sun/sun1/firmware/cpu/sun1_roms_rD_rE.zip

6 years, 6 months

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Current MANX location

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Glen Slick > This? Yes; thanks! I don't know it didn't show up in my Web searches - I tried a number of different things, no luck. Also, http://manx.classiccmp.org/ (which is the medium-old URL I had for it) redirects to something that has no working link to Manx; probably ought to fix it to go to the new location. Noel

6 years, 6 months

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Sun memory 201-5401 has landed

by sales＠elecplus.com

https://elecshopper.com/Sun-501-5401-256MB-PC100-232-pin-ECC-3-3V-DIMM-p1472 53154 I got a better deal on it, so the price is lower. New ecommerce platform, very fast checkout, under 2 minutes! I still have a VERY long way to go to get everything loaded again. Damn hackers! Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus 1613 Water Street Kerrville, TX 78028 830-370-3239 cell sales at elecplus.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

6 years, 6 months

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PDP 11/34 systems available in CA

by jwsmail＠jwsss.com

I have three PDP 11/34's available in the LA area for sale.? i have two full systems, plus? a system with 2 RL02s, and a TU10 tape drive. I'd like to sell all of them.? There is an extra RL02 as well.? All for pickup, or freight drop. please reply off list.?? I have $2000 in the lot. thanks jim

6 years, 6 months

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RS2030 MIPS workstation

by pmackinlay＠hotmail.com

I?ve only just joined cctalk, so apologies for the delayed response to this query from May, but I thought the information might be useful to others in future. I?m the person working on emulating MIPS workstations in MAME recently, and I?m a fair way through getting the Rx3230 model to a fully working state (Rx2030 is already working as of last month). For the MIPS Rx3230 systems, which use an M48T02, the mac address should be in the first 6 bytes of NVRAM. You can read/write the NVRAM through the boot monitor using the ?g? (get) and ?p? (put) commands. You also need to provide the ?-b? argument to specify byte width, and the relevant address. The NVRAM is mapped at 0x1d000000-0x1d001fff in the physical address space, but must also set the high bit to access it through kseg0. Each 32-bit word in that range corresponds to a single byte in the NVRAM, so the resulting commands will be something like: * g -b 0x9d000003 (read first byte of NVRAM) * g -b 0x9d000007 (read second byte of NVRAM) * ... Or conversely: * p -b 0x9d000003 0xff (write 0xff to first byte of NVRAM) I haven?t tried to decode the rest of the NVRAM for the Rx3230 at this point (although most of the monitor variables seem to be at offset 0x600-0x6a7), but at least I can see those are the bytes that are read from NVRAM and then written to the mac address of the LANCE, and setting them to a valid address makes the network layer in MAME behave as expected. -- Pat.

6 years, 6 months

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Current MANX location

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

Wasn't MANX supposed to be coming back up after moving? Did that never happen? Noel

6 years, 6 months

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Tape History - Freeman Reports

by t.gardner＠computer.org

Hi I'm sure some of us all remember Freeman Reports as the chronical of the tape industry well into this century. Ray Freeman and his partner and successor Bob Abraham published these reports from at least 1983 until 2007 but with Bob's death in 2007 the reports and backup files apparently wound up in a dumpster. But Ray, Bob and Jim Porter did exchange copies of their reports so thanks to Jim the Computer History Museum has almost all of the Freeman Reports in their permanent collection. There appear to be a few copies missing from the collection. A complete list of what the museum has and what maybe missing is posted at http://mrxhist.org/tom94022/FreemanRpt.pdf. In summary what may be missing are: Computer tape outlook - . half-inch products: 1994, 1985, 1990 & 1992 Computer tape outlook - . cassette/cartridge: 1984 & 1985 Computer tape outlook - all tape: 1997-2000 (as the market consolidated towards LTO so did the reports J Optical data storage outlook: 1985, 1988 & 1998 Mass storage/Library storage outlook: 1992, 1993, 1997 & 2000 So before they all get trashed please look and see if you happen to have any of the possibly missing editions in your garage, attic or any other repository. Contact me off line if you can help. Tom

6 years, 6 months

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S/23 machine update card

by drb＠msu.edu

Folks, I've determined that the piece of my S/23 that's causing the power supply to blow its 12V fuse is the machine update card. The manual says this provides additional R/W storage for microprogram updates. That sounds like something that wouldn't be necessary for normal operation. Questions: 1. Can anyone confirm that I'm not losing anything by just pulling this? 2. Anyone have a cross ref for the IBM house numbers on these chips? 3. Anyone have a spare card they'd part with? 4. As long as I'm dreaming, anyone have a set of BRADS floppies or images? Machine update card photo: https://sysovl.info/pages/galleries/ibm/s23guts/s23guts13.jpg Interestingly, the underlying PCB for this seems exactly the same as the one for the word processing feature card. Many thanks, De

6 years, 6 months

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multi-section cap for Tek 4006

by fritzm＠fritzm.org

I'm working my way through a Tektronix 4006 terminal purchased of eBay right now. First stage is the low voltage power supplies, and I noticed right away that one of the multi-stage electrolytic filter caps there was running quite hot (this was with downstream electronics isolated, and a 40 ohm dummy load on the +20V supply per recommendation in the service manual.) The cap in question is a multi-section Mallory can, 150 at 400 / 150 at 250, used to filter the +185 and +320 unregulated supplies. It is C395 A/B on the schematics, Tek part 290-0549-00, Mallory part 68D20193. This terminal is so beautifully engineered inside that it would be a real shame to replace this with some sort of ugly bodge. Any part-sourcing gurus out there able to steer me in a good direction here? I have found the part listed in the various online NSN aerospace cross-referencing sites, but haven't bothered to ask for a quote from any -- I'm guessing cynically that "RFQ" + "Aero..." = 5 zillion dollars for one piece... :-) Has anybody here used one of these sites successfully? cheers, --FritzM.

6 years, 6 months

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I need a keypunch (briefly)

by cctalk＠ibmjunkman.com

The Computer Museum of America in Roswell GA (400 miles) has 2 working 029s. Don?t know the condition of the ribbons. Contact Lonnie Simms via info at computermuseumofamerica.org. Tell him his CA IBM benefactor sent you. I hope you have black cards. If not, let me know. Otherwise you could try http://www.kloth.net/services/cardpunch.php and print the JPEG on heavy stock. Donald Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 18:10:32 -0400 From: Chip Davis <chip at aresti.com> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: I need a keypunch (briefly) Message-ID: <5c1abccc-5548-057d-fa0c-0b6be9d0c2c8 at aresti.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed I was referred to this group by dave.g4ugm at gmail.com who thought you might be able to help me. I need to punch a half-dozen datacards for an award for a retired IBMer. Anyone know where I can find a working 026/029/129 within 300 miles of Raleigh, NC? Many thanks for any pointers. Chip Davis chip at aresti.com +1.919.271.2582

6 years, 6 months

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ADM-3A question

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

Tried the ADM-3A out today on my PDP-8/A via the 20 ma current loop interface - just unplugged the ASR-33 and plugged in the glass TTY :) Worked great (the current loop probably had never been used, so no one had a chance to blow it up), but I got tired of holding down the Shift key since OS/8 doesn't understand lower case letters. So I decided to set its switch to upper case only... terminal kept putting out lower case. Sure enough, that switch contact was stuck closed. It'd probably never been moved since the terminal was new! Now waiting on a 6-position dip switch from Mouser. And some 8-position Mate-n-Lok connectors. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

6 years, 6 months

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Grid 1537 ”Tempest” schematics

by curt＠atarimuseum.com

Hi, I?m doing some work for a friend who has one of these unicorns it?s apparently a super beefed up CIA use the laptop that wound up in Russia somehow and he got it shipped back here to the US The motherboard was modified it looks like the hard drive was on some kind of a tray going to a connector which is IDE compatible Someone had extremely poorly soldered on an IDE cable in place of the sled and over the years several of the pans of popped off and they?re not really making sense as to the solder points they?re supposed to go to. Complicating the matter is the paint outs are not just a direct staggered 40 Pin to Pin connection several of the through holes are not in use so just soldering on I had her and plug in the cable into it is not possible also the pens are staggered so that wouldn?t make it possible either. So to cut to the chase does anyone have the schematics or the motherboard pinouts for this connector so that I can do a proper soldering job and put on a clean working cable so that this laptop can vote from the IDE hard drive?

6 years, 6 months

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HP-2250 in Salt Lake City

by Tim＠Rikers.org

Someone on this list, I don't remember who, asked me if I was interested in this, and then dropped it off. I've not gotten around to doing anything with it, and I could use the space back. If anyone is interested, holler. HP 2250 Measurement & Control Processor Pictures are the same ones that came with it. Photographer unknown. https://photos.app.goo.gl/XjEj8E8vQ8KX9xcg8 If your interested in picking it up, email me directly, please. If you have more information to share, respond to the list. :) If anyone knows more about what this is, I'd be interested to hear. I got these links from Mike on the SIMH list: http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=986 http://www.hpmuseum.net/document.php?hwfile=5124 http://www.hpmuseum.net/document.php?hwfile=4579 Mine is the "2250M" version. Apparently this heavy beast is "mobile" because it has wheels on it. :)

6 years, 6 months

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Pinout for current loop interface

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

>I've never heard of people using DB25 for 20mA, at least historically, contemporaneous with its widespread actual use. E.g. DEC universally used 'flat' 8-pin Mate-n-Lok connectors for 20mA serial connections. Thanks for the comments... I asked mostly because the ADM-3A has both RS-232 and current loop interfaces built-in (on the same female DB-25), selected by one of the DIP switches. I just hate having to make a custom cable for every terminal and computer I own or work with ;) -Charles --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

6 years, 6 months

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Archiving information, was Re: ADM-3A question

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Steven M Jones > imagine that a law is passed in a far away land, and the site owner > decides it's is too risky to bother with, and they then take the entire > site down - wiki and fora - with no warning and no access to the > material... > .. > I would strongly suggest that if people are going to do something of > the scale you describe, they might want to consider setting up a > distribution or replication mechanism Past events have made me very concerned about this issue! On a couple of occasions, Tore (who runs the CHWiki) has forgotten to pay the DNS fee, or something similar, and it went off-line (the first time for a week, as he was off camping). Leading to total panic on my part when he wasn't reachable, about all the content I'd written! There is an automatic backup system which sends copies to a machine at his house, so the particular scenario above (hosting sevice goes away with no warning) is not an issue. (Yes, a Chicxulub event in Scandanavia would defeat that, but we'd all probably have larger problems to worry about!) After the first event, I make manual backups here of all the articles I contribute. The biggest concern is if he has an unfortunate interaction with a truck. I did raise this issue with him, and he had some initial suggestions, but I haven't followed through. If people start contributing, it'd probably be time to formalize something. Noel

6 years, 6 months

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Pinout for current loop interface

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Charles Morris > Is there any standard pinout for 20 ma current loop using a DB-25 > connector, analogous to the well-documents RS-232 serial interface? > ... > Or would you recommend I use a different connector entirely? .. Maybe a > Jones 4-pin would make more sense. I've never heard of people using DB25 for 20mA, at least historically, contemporaneous with its widespread actual use. E.g. DEC universally used 'flat' 8-pin Mate-n-Lok connectors for 20mA serial connections. Although I have the part numbers for both the male and female 8-pin shells, they are no longer in production, and are getting hard to find. Nothing precludes us from establishing a spec for 20mA via a DB25, of course - especially if a set of pins can be found whih will not cause damage if such a connector is plugged into an EIA connector by accident. As 'idiot proof' engineering, I'd be inclined to use some other connector (no suggestion from me as to what), but I can understand that people might prefer to use DB25 (which everyone has, and are easy to find). Noel

6 years, 6 months

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VAX DATATRIEVE orange binders (4)

by toby＠telegraphics.com.au

Hi, I have four binders, pictured here: https://imgur.com/a/w9a3YEY * Reference Manual, AA-K079E-TE * Guide to Writing Reports, AA-P862C-TE * Handbook, AA-W675B-TE * User's Guide, AA-K080E-TE Did not see scans on bitsavers but it's possible I just overlooked them. Is there any interest in getting them scanned? I have a suitable scanner. I can also ship them (from Toronto, Canada) to anyone keen enough to pay shipping. --Toby

6 years, 6 months

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Archiving information, was Re: ADM-3A question

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Seth J. Morabito >> having stuff scattered across a zillion personal pages (be they blogs, >> or whatever) is going to make it hard to find the useful one when >> needed > The sheer vastness of content available, combined with a Google > monoculture, combined with a concerted attempt to GAME the Google > monoculture, is making search and discovery hard An additional issue, I think, is that Google is deprecating sites that use HTTP, versus HTTPS. I can't comment more, lest I start ranting at the utter stupidity of forcing everyone to use HTTPS. But if those blogs are using HTTP, that will push them down the results. > I honestly don't know what to do about it. I don't have a better idea, > unless we go back to something like a directory-style curated > experience, a-la Yahoo! circa 1998-ish. I'm not sure that would scale to cover detailed pages on obsolete computers; why is a manual indexer going to cover them? Anyway, the whole 'how do we find the info' is a part of why I started working on CHWiki, once I discovered it - in addition to the usual advantages of wikis (good for collaboration, good for adding stuff incrementally), it would put all the info in one place, a 'one stop shopping' for old computer info. But when I tried to convince people to post stuff there, instead of on their blogs, I got at least one person who was pretty vehement that no way in h*** were they going to stop putting their stuff in their own blog. Noel

6 years, 6 months

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Pinout for current loop interface

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

Is there any standard pinout for 20 ma current loop using a DB-25 connector, analogous to the well-documents RS-232 serial interface? My PDP-8/A drives an ASR-33, and having just restored an ADM-3A I want to be able to unplug the TTY and plug in the ADM. I somewhat arbitrarily put the transmit data + on pin 2 and receive + on pin 3, and picked two uncommitted RS-232 pins for the - legs of both loops. The ADM-3A receives on pins 23 & 25, and transmits on pins 24 & 17. Polarity doesn't matter since both pairs use bridge rectifiers. If this is some kind of de facto standard, I'll change the bulkhead connector on the PDP-8 and the TTY to match. Otherwise I'll just make yet another unique cable to hook up the ADM-3A to the PDP-8 as it's wired. Or would you recommend I use a different connector entirely? The reason I used the DB-25 to begin with is that I had a DEC rack-mount plate that already takes one. Maybe a Jones 4-pin would make more sense. thanks for any tips. -Charles --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

6 years, 6 months

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GW-DEC-1: A New DEC Prototyping Board

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Brent Hilpert > I've seen pieces of HP high-end lab equipment from thru the 60s that > used tin plating on the PCB edge fingers, mating into gold-plated edge > connectors on the backplane. ISTR that DEC used bronze contacts in their backplanes, but basically all the boards had gold-plated fingers. (I think I've seen a few power supply boards that had tinned fingers.) I think the bronze was preferred since the contacts bend back and forth as cards are inserted/removed, and bronze is more durable; and being part tin, has the same corrosion characteristics are the tin. Noel

6 years, 6 months

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RXV21 questions

by dj.taylor4＠comcast.net

I have 2 RXV21 RX02 controller boards.? They were bought to be used with the RX02 emulator, the one on github by AK6DN. Finally, I finished one of the emulator boards and tried it out on a PDP-11/03 and found that one of the RXV21? boards worked and the other didn't.? I assumed the one board was bad. Yesterday I tried the RX02 emulator in a BA23 with a 11/53 cpu (I also tried a 11/23+) cpu.? What I found is that the one that worked in the 11/03 didn't work, while the other board kinda worked.? I could do a DIRECTORY and DUMP from RT11, but I couldn't boot the RX02 in the microPDP-11. Today I ran into Chuck Dickman's web site that talked about the Etch versions of the board and which would work in a microPDP-11. He showed how to convert an Etch 'D' board to work in a microPDP-11. I have Etch 'C' - this is the one that works in the 11/03, and an Etch 'D'.? My 'D' board isn't exactly like the 'D' board he shows. What are the changes to the 'D' board that he outlines?? What is exactly the reason why the 'C' works in the 11/03 and why an 'F' or modified 'D' is needed for the microPDP-11? Doug

6 years, 6 months

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ADM-3A question

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

Today the replacement 'LS193 arrived, so I put it in the previously-installed socket and the screen is now 24x80 again :) I'd been testing with the dip switch in half-duplex mode... For final test, I put it in FDX, connected to my HP protocol analyzer, and what do you know, no serial data out. The 1488 RS-232 driver was blown (TTL-level data going to it, but the RS-232 line was stuck in spacing). Not an uncommon failure with static discharge and incorrect cable hookups... I destructively removed it, again installed a good dip socket, now waiting for THAT chip (a variety of other line drivers in my drawer, but not 1488/1489). Meanwhile I noted another slide switch S8 ("GT/LK") near the DB-25 connectors. It is not referenced anywhere in the documentation, nor in the schematics! The wiper of the switch also goes through a hex inverter to a 74LS32 chip, ALSO not in the schematic or circuit description. This signal originates at the flip-flop that generates KBLOCK\. Finally, input pin 10 of the removed 1488 is supposed to be tied to pin 9, with the RTS output on pin 8. But pin 10 goes In fact, the PCB artwork at the end of the tech manual shows no connections except +5 and ground to that chip (position C2 I think), and it doesn't show the slide switch either. This is likely something for the auto-tester that LSI used to check these boards on the production line, although I don't know if the extra circuitry was added or removed during production. Anyone have internal documents on this? I'm just curious since it only appears to affect the keyboard lock functions which I'm not using anyway. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

6 years, 6 months

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Archiving information, was Re: ADM-3A question

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Eric Christopherson >> Anyway, the whole 'how do we find the info' is a part of why I started >> working on CHWiki, once I discovered it > Psst: it would've been a good idea to share the URL to CHWiki. Well, that passing reference wasn't an attempt to get people to go look at it, hence no URL! :-) I was focused on the abstract discussion about 'how do we make information accessible, if relying on search engines to find blog postings doesn't work'. I have on several occasions posted appeals to this list for people to contribute content to it, and gotten almost no response (with one notable exception), in terms of added content; that was a large part of why I merely mentioned it in an offhand way. > a site I was already familiar with, but not under the name you used for > it. Ah, formally it's the 'Computer History Wiki', except that's a lot of typing, so I've been using 'CHWiki' as a short, easy-to-type, name for it for some time now. > (It was a bit hard to find with Google, which just goes to show...) Yeah, I added "CHWiki" to the text on the Main Page to make it a little easier to find from the short name, after a previous case where I'd used that term here, to some people's confusion. But I see it still doesn't work well; I guess I'll have to add 'CHWiki' links from more pages. Using 'Computer History Wiki' as a search term only works slightly better, though; it's at the bottom of the first page of results for me, below a bunch of Wikipedia links. Noel PS: In response to a point raised in a private reply to me; the site is for _all_ historical computers: personal computers, mainframes, the lot. I myself have added a lot of PDP-11 material, but only because I'm very fond of them, and know them well. The field of historial computers is _way_ too broad for one person to cover in depth, which is part of why I previously appealed to people who knew/were familar with other corners of it to add detailed content in those areas.

6 years, 6 months

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Google site ordering (Was: Archiving information)

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Christian Corti >> An additional issue, I think, is that Google is deprecating sites that >> use HTTP, versus HTTPS. > Not true, in contrary, Google even crawls through FTP sites :-) I did say "deprecate", not 'ignore totally'! :-) Here's what I know: An e-commerce site where I do a lot of business announced that they would switch to using HTTPS. I grumped, because I'd have to use a browser I don't like as much. The owner wrote back as follows: "next month Google will begin to demote all websites that are not https secure" I assume he knew what he was talking about (via his Web-site engineering people). I suppose I could research it, but I don't have the time right at the moment. I'd love to hear if anyone else knows more. Noel

6 years, 6 months

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ADM-3A question

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

I found a newer version of the tech manual on bitsavers, which does mention the mysterious S8 switch (as well as the S6 switch that fills the screen with 0's upon clearing). "The gated EXTENSION port mode, when selected by switch S8, allows selective transmission of data from the keyboard, in Half-Duplex mode, or the communication line through the EXTENSION port. GT: Enables gated EXTENSION port mode which allows ON/OFF control of the EXTENSION port. LK: Disables gated EXTENSION port mode which allows locking and unlocking off [sic] keyboard." The wiring is on the newer schematic, too. Another of life's little mysteries, solved :) --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

6 years, 6 months

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GW-DEC-1: A New DEC Prototyping Board

by systems.glitch＠gmail.com

Connor Krukosky and I have been working on laying out a new quad-height DEC protoboard, which can also be sheared down into a dual-height board. Full announce on the VC Forums: http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?71177-GW-DEC-1-A-New-Quad-Height-… These should be available within a month or so. I'll be putting up a preorder soon to gauge interest in the production run, which as usual will have hard gold plating on the edge connectors. I haven't gotten a quote for the cost, but I expect them to be $30-40 each for production boards. They'll be available at VCF Midwest as well as online! Thanks, Jonathan

6 years, 6 months

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cctalk Digest, Vol 59, Issue 13 (Curt Vendel)

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> > Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 12:06:48 -0400 > From: Curt Vendel <curt at atarimuseum.com> > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 59, Issue 13 > > Will... > > I?m still waiting for you and the Rhode Island Computer Society to get my > brand new in the box 9766, the Alignment disk platter, the box of spare > heads and the other unit 9766 beat up unit up and running that I gave you > to donate to RICS for free in exchange for you reading the dozen 300mb > platters I have and then once the data was read they could keep the > platters... > > So still waiting on that... hint hint hint > There are two vintage computer groups in Rhode Island, The Rhode Island Computer Museum <http://www.ricomputermuseum.org/>, and the Retro-Computing Society of Rhode Island <https://www.rcsri.org/>. In this case, Curt is talking about the Retro-Computing Society of Rhode Island. -- Michael Thompson

6 years, 6 months

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Event Reminder: DEC Legacy is back on 9th-10th Nov 2019, Windermere UK

by mark＠wickensonline.co.uk

Just a quick reminder for those folk thinking about registering... The next DEC Legacy will take place Saturday 9th November 2019 - Sunday 10th at the Marchesi Centre in Windermere, North West UK. With a focus on Digital Equipment Corporation and their legacy of hardware, software and ethos I'm also extending an open invitation to those who are interested in SGI, HP, Sun, IBM and other high end hardware to come along and share their passion with us. Several formal presentations will be mixed with plenty of hands on time with hardware brought by enthusiasts. Enthusiasts are encouraged to bring along hardware and software to exhibit. The personal nature of the event brings a unique atmosphere within which friendships are easily forged. Registration is now open. Please visit http://wickensonline.co.uk/declegacy/ for more details. Kind Regards, Mark Wickens, M0NOM

6 years, 6 months

2
1
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Identification of an HP minicomputer

by ggs＠shiresoft.com

Hi, I have sitting in my pile of stuff an HP minicomputer that I?m trying to identify (at least in terms of exactly what it is and what sort of configuration it might have). As far as I can tell, it?s an HP-1000 M-Series minicomputer (that should hopefully get us *some* details). The ?asset tag? lists the part number as 2113023-108. Looking at the back there?s space for 9 I/O cards (5 are occupied). So my question is which of the several CPUs could this be and how do I tell (for example) what the configuration is (e.g. how much memory, etc). Yes, I have looked on bitsavers, but short of disassembling the box to look at the (at least) 2 boards that are below the I/O slots, I can?t tell what?s there and I?d like to see if there?s a way to determine what this is without resorting to disassembly. Thanks. TTFN - Guy

6 years, 6 months

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Archiving information, was Re: ADM-3A question

by marvin＠west.net

Al Kossow via cctalk writes: > On 8/14/19 8:53 AM, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote: >> I hope this thread will be written to a blog post > > Buried in a filing cabinet in the basement with a sign that says > "Beware of Leopard". > > Blogs are a stupid way to archive information, almost as stupid as > putting it on Facebook. The problem is not archiving, but rather retrieving the data. As a current example, I am looking for information on the Jonas Escort computers. A slight misspelling (Jonas instead of Jonos) resulted in a whole slew of graphic escort services. And spelling it properly has resulted in basically zero useful information about the computer itself. It is hard to believe the almost total lack of information on the Jonos. If the scarcity is real, it must be worth at least as much as the Apple I :). And ditto for the Molecular Computer although not as bad as the Jonos. BTW, these are two computers I'm looking at bringing to VCFMW if there is any serious interest. Instead of the search engines working to improve AI, they should be putting more effort into ESP. Marvin

6 years, 6 months

3
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GW-DEC-1: A New DEC Prototyping Board

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Paul Birkel > But which bus? There are three ... So I'm clearly not very awake this morning. I can only think of two major quad-width DEC standard slots - SPC (UNIBUS) and dual QBUS. What's the third - PMI? (MUD is hex, as is Fastbus.) Or OMNIBUS, if we're not restricted to PDP-11's? Noel

6 years, 6 months

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1
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Raspberry Pi write cycles

by athornton＠gmail.com

I did have a case where the Pi I was using as secondary DNS/DHCP and as the secondary backup server (using USB spinning disk) destroyed its SD card. But then it turned out not to be the load at all. No matter what I ran on that Pi, it would corrupt its SD cards in a matter of weeks (the symptom was that the fourth bit of some bytes would just stick on). I assume it was just something broken in the Pi itself. I will state here, for the record, that if someone can spam effectively -- or be a botnet C&C node -- from TOPS/10 on a PDP-10 emulated on my Pi, my irritation at having my systems abused will probably be overwhelmed by my admiration at their dedication. (Traffic encryption via simh is incredibly painful. You have to turn login delay waaaaay up to run NetBSD on VAX on a Pi if you want to be able to ssh into it; the machine itself runs fine-ish, but the zillions of cycles to encrypt the traffic swamps it in no time.) And, you know, if you manage to cause my SD cards in those machines to fail, well, gosh, guess I'm out $10 or so for a new one. I'm not bothering to back up any of the stuff inside 'em, btw (so those of you using 'em, seriously, save your work elsewhere if it's precious--and, um, yeah, unless you're on OpenVMS, TOPS-20, or ITS, you don't have a TCP/IP stack and since you don't have a direct terminal interface into it, that probably means copying and pasting from the terminal session...but if you have something you really want off it that's larger than a couple of screens full, just write me a note and I can likely extract it for you more reasonably). Adam

6 years, 6 months

7
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XXDP on PDP-11/03

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Allison Parent > ! Seriously? ... Memory of some form there is a must. I don't know about you, but my approach in looking into hardware issues is often to start by reducing things to the simplest possible configuration that exhibits the failure. (I asssume the various reasons for that approach are obvious.) So, the OP couldn't get ODT to work. Well, what's the simplest config one needs for ODT? Well, a CPU (but it won't be executing any instructions, so one could leave HALT on), the console serial card (with a working terminal attached), a bus/backplane to plug them into, and a power supply. But no, the LSI-11 machines also want memory - although it's unused by ODT after a single read cycle at power-on. It's probably worth pointing out that this is _not_ true of the F-11 machines; those do ODT just fine without memory. Perhaps DEC got some complaints about the behaviour of the LSI-11, and made a change? I don't know if the front console on the early UNIBUS machines works without any memory on the UNIBUS - I'm too lazy to check. I have this vague memory that they do, though. > The architecture of pdp-11 has the first 256 words as interrupt vectors > and software locations. Some 'internal' interrupts from the CPU (e.g. NXM) are at fixed, low, locations (in Kernel D space on some of the models with MMU, to be technical - I don't know about the /40 and /34, etc), but there's nothing that restricts _device_ interrupts to be in low memory (either physical, or virtual on those machines which get vectors from Kernel virtual). E.g. in the "pdp-11 bus handbook" (EB 17525 20), pg. 119, it says "Place Vector on BDAL <15:00> L" - so one could use 0140000 if one wanted. Most DEC devices that do the vector with jumpers don't have posts for all 15 bits, it is true, but AFAIK no CPU looks at only the low bits on the bus. > How else would the console vectors at 60 work. ODT doesn't use interrupts. Noel

6 years, 6 months

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XXDP on PDP-11/03

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Brent Hilpert > I wouldn't have thought any of the (various 11 CPU) ODTs used > interrupts for the console They don't. > Don't know which CPU Noel was referring to. The OP was having problems with an LSI-11 (M7264 quad card); I was working with an LSI-11/2 (M7270 dual card - I don't have any LSI-11's). But I'm pretty sure the CPUs on the two are identical; and certainly, both display the 'must have memory at 0 for ODT to work'. Noel

6 years, 6 months

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XXDP on PDP-11/03

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Jonathan (systems_glitch) > Yep, fun times on LSI-11/2! Heh, this one was _utterly trivial_ compared to the 'must have working memory at 0 or ODT won't start'! (I don't think I've ever seen that one in DEC documentation anywhere...) Noel

6 years, 6 months

3
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ADM-3A question

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

>> Al Kossow via cctalk writes: >> Buried in a filing cabinet in the basement with a sign that says >> "Beware of Leopard". Good one! > From: Seth J. Morabito > I'm going to respectfully disagree .. the proliferation of modern > JavaScript frameworks that are designed to build single-page apps, and > make the web virtually impossible to scrape or mirror in an efficient > and simple way. ... every single page is statically generated at > publishing time and absolutely nothing is dynamic. It's not clear that it's the dynamic nature of the content he's unhappy with; it might just be that having stuff scattered across a zillion personal pages (be they blogs, or whatever) is going to make it hard to find the useful one when needed, and that's why he's cranky. (Well, more so than he usually is.... :-) If it's got something oddball term in the text, a Web indexer might be able to find it, but what if your search term turns up 17,239 matches? Finding the useful needle in the hackstack of crap on the current Web is a tall order - so tall, that I suspect a lot of people don't even try, just shoot off an email to CCTalk in the hopes that someone here will enlighten them. I've seen a number of instances recently where people's questions were answered on the CHWiki, but apparently they couldn't find it. So they wound up asking here... Noel

6 years, 6 months

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ADM-3A question

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

Thanks. I believe you are right also :) The expensive ceramic packages have hermetic seals, not so the plastic (epoxy) packages used in commercial grade parts. There are some kind of failures that can be fixed by baking - but I don't know if this is one of them (if the bond wire is soldered to the die it might work). If it detached from the weld at the lead frame, no go. Anyway there are over 100 chips on the ADM-3A board and I would be more worried about damaging the others with heat. I just paid 71 cents for another LS193 ;) Charles WB3JOK/0 -----Original Message----- From: Dave Wade Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 5:02 AM To: 'Charles' ; 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: RE: ADM-3A question Charles, I believe that TTL chips suffer from failure or detachment of the bonding wire that runs from the die to the interconnect pin, which would result in a floating pin as described.] Not sure if environmental storage affects this as chips should be sealed... I have also recently seen it suggested that heating the chip up in an oven could affect a temporary repair (sorry I can't find the reference now). Dave G4UGM > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Charles via cctalk > Sent: 14 August 2019 00:20 > To: cctalk digest <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: ADM-3A question > > After hanging vertically for 36 hrs in a hot upstairs room, more goop seeped > out from under the keyboard. It now works again. Whew. > > While running on the bench for burn-in testing, a cursor problem suddenly > appeared... it would only move every other keystroke. With the technical > description and schematic at hand, it wasn't hard to track down a 74LS193 > up/down counter with a blown (floating) LSB output. Confirmed by manually > toggling that bit and the cursor would move back and forth one position. > Meanwhile I removed the bad chip and put in a DIP socket. Naturally my TTL > collection didn't have an 'LS193 so I'm waiting on that. So I have a 24 line, 1 > column terminal :) > > The monitor was occasionally intermittent (no display at all, no HV, +15 and > drive signals OK). It seemed to change with movement of the wiring harness > from the main board to the monitor, too. I reseated the edge connector on its > PCB and it seemed to be fixed - but then the VERTICAL deflection collapsed and > tweaking the height adjustment caused increasing loss. The 100 ohm pot to the > base of the vertical output transistor had picked that moment to go open. > Changed that out and readjusted everything - so far so good after another hour > of run time. > > This ADM-3A could have been unpowered (and in a storage area without > climate > control) for a very long time. I wonder if that contributed to the failures I'm > seeing... hope there aren't any more until I get to use it for a while on my PDP- > 8/A (or 11/23+). > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus

6 years, 6 months

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cctalk Digest, Vol 59, Issue 13

by curt＠atarimuseum.com

Will... I?m still waiting for you and the Rhode Island Computer Society to get my brand new in the box 9766, the Alignment disk platter, the box of spare heads and the other unit 9766 beat up unit up and running that I gave you to donate to RICS for free in exchange for you reading the dozen 300mb platters I have and then once the data was read they could keep the platters... So still waiting on that... hint hint hint > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 14:09:16 -0400 > From: William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> > To: P Gebhardt <p.gebhardt at ymail.com>, "General Discussion: On-Topic > and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: Control Data 9766 drive on epay > Message-ID: > <CANij+dfgBwBbQ2E29umm_QUx6duuwQANQ35cGgsmC7MbOkiXVw at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > There is a Make Offer option, and it does look like the seller does > take offers fairly regularly. I will not be buying it. > > If someone does, I have a huge amount of spares for 976x drives, > including refurbished heads. It might take a while to find them in my > mess, however. > > -- > Will > >

6 years, 6 months

1
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Convergent Technologies NGEN and Datapoint monitor

by ce.murillosanchez＠gmail.com

Good evening, folks... Does anybody know if Datapoint made monitors for Convergent Technologies? In my "near junk" section I have some modules that someone stored in a warehouse next to a carpenter shop and under bombardment >from bats and birds.? The modules were made by Convergent Technologies and I never did much about them because of their extremely dirty state and also because of the lack of a keyboard.? I have: - Two CP-001/8 cpu modules (80186 at 8MHz, 256KB RAM, 6845 video IC) - Four 5 1/4" dual-floppy modules (each has two Mitsubishi M4853 half-height drives) - One GC-001 graphics controller - Two PS-001 power supplies, one is missing parts and then, a monitor that by the looks and controls is a VC-002 15" to be used with the GC-001, except that it is labeled as: Datapoint Corp. Model 97-1224-001 Serial 934055 Other marks:? 53-00355-00???? 5-84 So, do you guys know if Datapoint made monitors for others? Carlos.

6 years, 6 months

2
1
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XXDP on PDP-11/03

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Paul Koning > Isn't the interrupt disabled by RESET? Nope. On the -11/03 and KDF11-A, BEVNT is wired straight into the CPU, and there's no internal register to control it. The BDV11 does have a register which can enable/disable the LTC (it connects BEVNT to ground via a transistor when the appropriate register bit is cleared); but, ironically (given your question), BINIT/RESET does _not_ clear that register! Only BPOK does. (My theory is they were short of a bus receiver for BINIT, and rather than put a whole extra chip on the card...) So, once on, it has to be explicitly turned off, or the 'boot' switch (which toggles BPOK) has to be hit. The KDF11-B and all KDJ11 machines do have the LTC register, which operates 'correctly'. Noel

6 years, 6 months

3
2
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XXDP on PDP-11/03

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Jerry Weiss > I turned BEVENT off and it boots successfully. I am not immediately > sure why this is necessary. If an LTC interrupt happens before the OS has set up the LTC vector, etc, hilarity ensues. E.g. the LTC has to be turned off before UNIX V6 will boot on an -11/23: http://gunkies.org/wiki/Running_UNIX_V6_on_an_-11/23 I discovered this the hard way; I roached the disk on my simulated /23 when I didn't. Noel

6 years, 6 months

2
1
0 0

ADM-3A question

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

After hanging vertically for 36 hrs in a hot upstairs room, more goop seeped out from under the keyboard. It now works again. Whew. While running on the bench for burn-in testing, a cursor problem suddenly appeared... it would only move every other keystroke. With the technical description and schematic at hand, it wasn't hard to track down a 74LS193 up/down counter with a blown (floating) LSB output. Confirmed by manually toggling that bit and the cursor would move back and forth one position. Meanwhile I removed the bad chip and put in a DIP socket. Naturally my TTL collection didn't have an 'LS193 so I'm waiting on that. So I have a 24 line, 1 column terminal :) The monitor was occasionally intermittent (no display at all, no HV, +15 and drive signals OK). It seemed to change with movement of the wiring harness >from the main board to the monitor, too. I reseated the edge connector on its PCB and it seemed to be fixed - but then the VERTICAL deflection collapsed and tweaking the height adjustment caused increasing loss. The 100 ohm pot to the base of the vertical output transistor had picked that moment to go open. Changed that out and readjusted everything - so far so good after another hour of run time. This ADM-3A could have been unpowered (and in a storage area without climate control) for a very long time. I wonder if that contributed to the failures I'm seeing... hope there aren't any more until I get to use it for a while on my PDP-8/A (or 11/23+). --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

6 years, 6 months

3
2
0 0

XXDP on PDP-11/03

by dj.taylor4＠comcast.net

Recently, I assembled one of the RX02 emulator boards developed by AK6DN.? I am using it presently in a BA11-M box with PDP-11/2 cpu (really basic 16 bit system).? I put the disk images from github on the SD card (RT11 V5.07 and XXDP not sure what version). The box has a BDV11 bootstrap / terminator board and I use this to boot the RX02 emulator.? Works fine when I boot RT11, however I can't boot XXDP - it halts at 000104. Do I need to use a different version of XXDP to run on the PDP-11/03? Doug

6 years, 6 months

3
2
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Compaq SystemPro XL Service Manual or PSU Schematics

by cctalk＠ibm51xx.net

Hello All, Does anyone out there by any chance have the Service Manual for a Compaq SystemPro XL or at least schematics to the PSU? Trying to revive one of these systems and the PSU is not working. TIA! -Ali

6 years, 6 months

1
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Electr* Engineering

by athornton＠gmail.com

At Rice in the early 90s the department was "Electrical and Computer Engineering" if my hazy memory serves. The genealogy of Computer Science departments (and their curricula) (at least in the US) is also weird and historically-contingent. Basically it seems to have been a tossup at any given school whether it came out of the Electr[ical|onic] Engineering department, in which case it was memories and logic gates and a bottom-up, hardware-focused curriculum, or out of the Mathematics department, in which case it was algorithms and complexity analysis and a software-focused curriculum. Adam

6 years, 6 months

8
9
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IBM 026/029/129 ribbons

by cctalk＠ibmjunkman.com

Just for reference the following site has ribbons for the subject card punches. https://www.aroundtheoffice.com/IBM-026-Keypunch-Ribbon/productinfo/RP-520-I BM/ I bought some a few years ago. As I understand it he makes a batch every year or so. I don't know but he might like the used reels back to use again. :-) Donald

6 years, 6 months

1
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Anyone have a mid-80s Robinson-Nugent connector catalog?

by aek＠bitsavers.org

Or some RN 68 pin CLCC sockets, or even a part number for them? I tried buying a 1981 RFN catalog, but they weren't in there. I have a bunch of IMS 80186 slave cards with the CPUs pulled Of course, they didn't keep the caps. RN was bought by 3M and I've been unable to even find a part number for these sockets. I'm hoping not to have to replace the sockets to get these boards working. Pics of what I need are here https://twitter.com/bitsavers/status/1161075014235385857

6 years, 6 months

1
0
0 0

Pertec Interface Cable Length

by dj.taylor4＠comcast.net

I have a question about cable length - any electrical engineers in the house? Connected a Qualstar 1260 tape drive to an Emulex TC02 qbus tape controller in a pdp-11/53.? The interface is pertec with 2 50 pin cables. When I use a pair of short flat ribbon cables, 18 and 30 inches each, it works.? Under RT11 I can INIT, Copy, DUMP, do a Directory. It doesn't work when I use a pair of 5 foot long flat ribbon cables.? Are they too long?? Do I need twisted pair type of cable?? Is it possibly a termination problem? Doug

6 years, 6 months

12
30
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Anyone have any Datapoint software on floppy?

by aek＠bitsavers.org

I picked up Eric's DP 1500 Z80 system at VCF West this weekend, unfortunately the boot disk has bad sectors. Anyone have any diskettes/images around for the 1500 or any other version of their systems? I took pics and dumped the firmware from it along with a DP 1551 pcb I've had for a while, and have been uploading the manuals to bitsavers that came with it, as well as a bunch that I've had scanned in the backlog

6 years, 6 months

3
4
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DEC VT20 boot device

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> I didn't fully disassamble the program I have now done so; the -YK is _exactly_ the same as the -YA (the later ones, which are minorly different from what's in the manual), except that the HSR address (177550) has been replaced as the primary device address by that of DL11 #1, in the second block of DL11 addresses (175610). In other words, the ROM is prepared to load something in bootstrap loader format (which I have documented here: http://gunkies.org/wiki/PDP-11_Bootstrap_Loader the one program known in this format is the absolute loader) over the non-console serial line. Noel

6 years, 6 months

1
0
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Control Data 9766 drive on epay

by p.gebhardt＠ymail.com

Hi list, Just came across this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Computing-CDC-Magnetic-Peripherals-Control… Haven't seen one listed in years. The price lets me assume that this offer addresses customers that may use these drives in a production environment or so... I am not aware of museums or hobbyists who have such drives currently in a functional state to read and write from and to 80MB (CDC 9762) or 300MB (CDC 9766) disk packs. Maybe the CHM? ... not taking into consideration the CHM activities related to the Xerox disk cartidge? (2315-equivalent) software archive project. Anybody out there? Would be interesting to know. Best regards, Pierre ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.digitalheritage.de

6 years, 6 months

10
11
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Searching for manuals...

by geneb＠deltasoft.com

I'm looking for a full set of manuals for the Microsoft Professional Development System v7.1. If anyone here has them to loan for scanning or to sell, please contact me directly. Thanks! g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

6 years, 6 months

1
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