test-drb December 2020

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

103 participants
82 discussions

by robinson＠tuberadio.com

Hi Alan, I go to my local shopping center. The fish shop there, has the fish delivered in white foam boxes. Some are long with lids. I go dumpster diving and collect them. They are suitable for keyboards, depends on the length of the keyboard, and the length of the fish. Regards Ray > On Mon, 2020-12-21 at 22:17 -0800, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: >> I have a bunch of Sun keyboards that I need to store more >> efficiently >> and don't want to risk damaging by stacking on top of each other. >> They >> are Type 4s, 5s, and 6s (without the wrist rest), maybe 10 in total. >> Anyone here know of a box or boxes that would work well for this? >> >> alan

3 years, 12 months

Compiling Fortran77 on the Pro: Where the heck are the library modules?

by cz＠alembic.crystel.com

So I'm working on compiling some programs on my Pro/380. 2.0 OS, Fortran77 compiler, Empire is the sample game. I got it to compile properly but when I try to link it the linker/tkb/pab fails with a bunch of undeclared references. Some of them are in the F77FCS.OLB library files on my pdp11/83 (M+ 4.6) like $CLOS, ISF$, $OSF, and $OPEN, but others like $EOLST, IOAB$, IOAI$, TT$EFN, and others are missing as well. Did DEC really jerk people around so badly by selling the FCS or RMS libraries as a separate installed product? I see some reference to RMSLIB.OLB but it's not on this system. Weird. CZ

3 years, 12 months

DEC H765 line interference caps

by fritzm＠fritzm.org

Hi all, I?m just starting in on a PDP-11/34 for a friend (happy holidays!) I currently have the H765 power supply torn down for cleaning, inspection, and testing as a first step. While I have the transformer out on the bench, I?m wondering about the line interference supression caps on the ?CAP MOV? board attached to the transformer. These are CDE 220 VAC .1 MFD, across the line, in parallel with some metal oxide varistors. Drawing on collective experience here: would I be well advised to go ahead and swap these out for some modern X2 safety caps while I have the supply apart? Or are these in the ?oh those are rock solid; I wouldn?t touch em unless they were faulted? category? cheers! ?FritzM.

3 years, 12 months

RL02 Tracking (Aaron Jackson)

by syseng＠gfsys.co.uk

On 12/22/20 18:00, cctech-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > Send cctech mailing list submissions to > cctech at classiccmp.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cctech-request at classiccmp.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cctech-owner at classiccmp.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. RL02 Tracking (Aaron Jackson) > 2. Re: RL02 Tracking (Aaron Jackson) > 3. Re: RL02 Tracking (Jon Elson) > 4. Re: RL02 Tracking (Josh Dersch) > 5. Re: RL02 Tracking (Aaron Jackson) > 6. Re: tty and video displays (Jules Richardson) > 7. Re: Keyboard storage (Guy Sotomayor) > 8. Wordperfect 6.0 for DOS (Van Snyder) > 9. Re: RL02 Tracking (Noel Chiappa) > 10. Keyboard storage (Alan Perry) > 11. Re: Keyboard storage (Warner Losh) > 12. RE: Keyboard storage (Ali) > 13. Re: Keyboard storage (Alan Perry) > 14. RE: Keyboard storage (Ali) > 15. Re: Keyboard storage (Alan Perry) > 16. Re: Keyboard storage (Guy Sotomayor) > 17. RE: Keyboard storage (ED SHARPE) > 18. Re: RL02 Tracking (Christian Corti) > 19. Re: Keyboard storage (Patrik Schindler) > 20. Re: RL02 Tracking (Aaron Jackson) > 21. Re: RL02 Tracking (Aaron Jackson) > 22. Re: Keyboard storage (Alan Perry) > 23. Re: Keyboard storage (Bill Degnan) > 24. Re: Ouch, but 2 Perqs out. (Why 42? The lists account.) > 25. Re: Ouch, but 2 Perqs out. (Why 42? The lists account.) > 26. Re: Ouch, but 2 Perqs out. (Tony Duell) > 27. Re: Ouch, but 2 Perqs out. (Tony Duell) > 28. Re: Ouch, but 2 Perqs out. (Chris Zach) > 29. RE: Keyboard storage (Fred Cisin) > 30. RE: Keyboard storage (ED SHARPE) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2020 19:08:14 +0000 > From: Aaron Jackson<Aaron.Jackson at nottingham.ac.uk> > To: "cctalk at classiccmp.org"<cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: RL02 Tracking > Message-ID:<91bim8vyo2q.fsf at mimas.cs.nott.ac.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi everyone > > I've posted a few times over the years about RL02 drives and my > difficulty getting them working (no luck so far!). I've spent the past > few days working on one of them and have made some progress. > > The status currently is that the heads will load, and the ready lamp > flashes as the heads wobble back and forth very slightly, trying to lock > onto the outer servo guard band. Probing TP2 of the read/write module, I > can see the S1 servo burst flash (roughly in time with the ready > lamp). If I disconnect power to the servo motor, I can manually move the > head onto the outer guard band (less than a mm away) and monitoring the > position signal (TP15 on the drive logic module) shows this to be close > to 0. So, I'm very confused. > > I've worked through chapter 3 multiple times... > > - voltage checks - all good > - sector transducer output check - all good > - sector pulse timing check - all good > - read signal amplitude check and adjustment - all good > - positioner radial alignment - required some tweeking but is good now > - head alignment - looks good to me > - spindle runout check - a little noisy but within spec > - position signal gain check - looked ok > - tachometer ac noise pickup check - this one didnt look so good > > Supposedly if the main drive motor is bad it will emit noise and cause > the tachometer (just a coil of wire on the head carriage) to produce > spikes. Mine does look quite noisy but I'm not sure what's causing it. I > would expect that if it was picking up noise, I'd be able to detect this > with my oscilloscope probe by putting it close to the motor, but I > can't. Any ideas? > > Also, thanks to pjustice on irc who suggested checking the spindle > grounding button. Mine is very worn out but I've been able to apply some > pressure to it from the under side which reduces the resistance of the > spindle to ground, from 400 ohm to 0 ohm. This didn't make the situation > any better though. > > Still, the situation over all is much better now than it was last time I > looked at the drive (over two years ago now I think). Previously the > heads would attempt to load and then the fault lamp would come on > immediately. At least now it's trying to lock onto a track. I have the > same results with two cartridges (which is all I have!). > > If anyone has any ideas I'd love to hear them! > > Aaron Aaron, One thing I would check is the motor bearings. What happens on electro mechanical assemblies left in store for years is that ball bearing grease lube dries out and hardens, resulting in lumpy rotation and increased friction that can be detected by rotating the spindle by hand. RLxx series drives were very reliable typically, but the head movement assy is pretty cheap and cheerful. Converting spindle to linear movement, minimum parts count, dc brush brush motor, means that all the bits need to be smooth in operation, with no stiction anywhere in it's travel. I would take the motor out and if it can't be stripped to clean the bearings, use a dab of light clock oil to relube. Also, check the brushes and clean / polish the commutator. Any other ball bearings in the path, same process. DC brush motors can be a nightmare for that sort of precision positioning application... Chris

3 years, 12 months

RL02 Tracking

by shadoooo＠gmail.com

> The ready lamp flashes not when the servo burst is >visible, but when the heads are just before it. > Why? Well, I probably set the gain too high on the read/write module. Hello, I'm sure you read the manual, however I add some explanation to be sure. The best head position is not where a servo track is at maximum amplitude (head is exactly centered to a servo track), but where you read two servo tracks with the same amplitude (so head is exactly between two servo tracks, in middle position). Comparative measurement of two servo tracks allow the servo control to understand the position of the head in respect to data track. If the best position for data track is not where servo have same amplitude probably the head is misaligned or the spring support of the head bent / deformed. To analyze head circuits you need a good oscilloscope, you should be able to see burst of servo tracks and data tracks too, with two channels you can understand if analog to digital threshold / pulses signal conversions do work as expected. Time ago I fixed an RL02 having a malfunctioning head amplifier circuit. The gain was too low. When I increased it rotating variable resistor, the circuit begun to ring (barely auto-oscillate), so was nearly unstable. Data and servo signals were corrupted, but this was visible only zooming on oscilloscope after careful trigger alignment. I don't remember exactly what I did, but some capacitors needed replacement, then I tuned head gain while loading a platter to the best position for operation, maybe slightly lower than manual recommendations. Then it worked perfectly. Andrea

3 years, 12 months

Wordperfect 6.0 for DOS

by van.snyder＠sbcglobal.net

Relisted Wordperfect 6.0 for DOS on EBay. Item number 224289791291. Van Snyder van.snyder at sbcglobal.net

3 years, 12 months

Keyboard storage

by couryhouse＠aol.com

Hopefully someone will have some.... The blasted one is on the left? side of the keyboard. Having a spare for the right side? probably not a bad idea too... We were missing keyboards? and got this like new one? gifted to us.? It was heartbreaking to see it damaged in shipping. We have a couple early 5150 umits with? expansion chassis.? Although only one of the? monster interconnect cables between the? pc and expansion chassis. Looking for posters lapel pins? and other display art to fill in? open areas... Any other ideas wekcome! Ed# On Tuesday, December 22, 2020 Fred Cisin via cctalk <cisin at xenosoft.com; cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: Ed, that was excellent!? We appreciate the extra effort. Alas, you are 15 years too late for my extra 5150 keyboard parts.? They didn't make it through the third move (Ben Franklin commented how that was as disruptive as a fire) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred? ? ??? ??? cisin at xenosoft.com On Tue, 22 Dec 2020, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: > > Let's try this... > > Had a ibm orig pc key board shipped in large flat rate Game size box.? > > Alas it was dropped on the corner and torn somewhat. > > I had to remount keyboard pc inside the case that had moved? and hardest part was getting ground wire back > > Worse part was one of the corner edge flip up things that keeps key at an angle bad snapped off.???? Museum needs parts to fix this? as it is nice to display keyboard at an angle > > Alas? that particular Clicky keyboard is extremely heavy ... this is the one for first ever ibm pc.?? Corner drop shock is a killer. > > ? Beware? pack these early keyboards really well... > > OK does anyone have parts for the little mechanism on the end that keeps keyboard tilted at an angle? > > > .Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC museum project > On Tuesday, December 22, 2020 Fred Cisin via cctalk <cisin at xenosoft.com; cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Tue, 22 Dec 2020, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: >> Had a ibm orig pc key board shipped in large flat rate. Game size box.? Alas was,dropped on. Ornery and torn some on box... I had to remount keyboard pc inside that had moved lo and neef nd one of the corner edge til tje kry bad snapped off...??? that particular Clicky keyb I ad is extremely heavy for first ever ibm pc.??? Be ware? pack really well...... >> Help anyone got parts for the tilter >> ...thing? for these keyboards???? >> ...ed sharpe > > May we suggest that you switch temporarily to a working keyboard (or > "keyb" if you prefer) until you can repair the shipping damage. > What is "lo and neef nd"? > "til tje kry bad"? > It must be hard on you to have to proofread and fix all of the errors that > it creates.

3 years, 12 months

Keyboard storage

by couryhouse＠aol.com

Let's try this... Had a ibm orig pc key board shipped in large flat rate Game size box.? Alas it was dropped on the corner and torn somewhat. I had to remount keyboard pc inside the case that had moved? and hardest part was getting ground wire back Worse part was one of the corner edge flip up things that keeps key at an angle bad snapped off.???? Museum needs parts to fix this? as it is nice to display keyboard at an angle Alas? that particular Clicky keyboard is extremely heavy ... this is the one for first ever ibm pc.?? Corner drop shock is a killer. ? Beware? pack these early keyboards really well... OK does anyone have parts for the little mechanism on the end that keeps keyboard tilted at an angle? .Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC museum project On Tuesday, December 22, 2020 Fred Cisin via cctalk <cisin at xenosoft.com; cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: On Tue, 22 Dec 2020, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: > Had a ibm orig pc key board shipped in large flat rate. Game size box.? Alas was,dropped on. Ornery and torn some on box... I had to remount keyboard pc inside that had moved lo and neef nd one of the corner edge til tje kry bad snapped off...??? that particular Clicky keyb I ad is extremely heavy for first ever ibm pc.??? Be ware? pack really well...... > Help anyone got parts for the tilter > ...thing? for these keyboards???? > ...ed sharpe May we suggest that you switch temporarily to a working keyboard (or "keyb" if you prefer) until you can repair the shipping damage. What is "lo and neef nd"? "til tje kry bad"? It must be hard on you to have to proofread and fix all of the errors that it creates.

3 years, 12 months

Keyboard storage

by couryhouse＠aol.com

Had a ibm orig pc key board shipped in large flat rate. Game size box.? Alas was,dropped on. Ornery and torn some on box... I had to remount keyboard pc inside that had moved lo and neef nd one of the corner edge til tje kry bad snapped off...??? that particular Clicky keyb I ad is extremely heavy for first ever ibm pc.??? Be ware? pack really well...... Help anyone got parts for the tilter ...thing? for these keyboards???? ...ed sharpe On Monday, December 21, 2020 Ali via cctalk <cctalk at ibm51xx.net; cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > Is this the USPS large flat rate box size that isn't the rectangular > one > that post offices usually have. I just noticed the size mentioned on > the > Click-N-Ship site. > > alan Yes. It is not usually stocked at the PO. You have to "order" them from the USPS website. They have the measurements there so you can verify your KBs will fit. However, I have shipped IBM 122 key terminal KBs in them without issues. Only thing that may not fit would be some of the older IBM KBs (like the ones on the Displaywriter). -Ali

3 years, 12 months

RL02 Tracking

by Aaron.Jackson＠nottingham.ac.uk

Hi everyone I've posted a few times over the years about RL02 drives and my difficulty getting them working (no luck so far!). I've spent the past few days working on one of them and have made some progress. The status currently is that the heads will load, and the ready lamp flashes as the heads wobble back and forth very slightly, trying to lock onto the outer servo guard band. Probing TP2 of the read/write module, I can see the S1 servo burst flash (roughly in time with the ready lamp). If I disconnect power to the servo motor, I can manually move the head onto the outer guard band (less than a mm away) and monitoring the position signal (TP15 on the drive logic module) shows this to be close to 0. So, I'm very confused. I've worked through chapter 3 multiple times... - voltage checks - all good - sector transducer output check - all good - sector pulse timing check - all good - read signal amplitude check and adjustment - all good - positioner radial alignment - required some tweeking but is good now - head alignment - looks good to me - spindle runout check - a little noisy but within spec - position signal gain check - looked ok - tachometer ac noise pickup check - this one didnt look so good Supposedly if the main drive motor is bad it will emit noise and cause the tachometer (just a coil of wire on the head carriage) to produce spikes. Mine does look quite noisy but I'm not sure what's causing it. I would expect that if it was picking up noise, I'd be able to detect this with my oscilloscope probe by putting it close to the motor, but I can't. Any ideas? Also, thanks to pjustice on irc who suggested checking the spindle grounding button. Mine is very worn out but I've been able to apply some pressure to it from the under side which reduces the resistance of the spindle to ground, from 400 ohm to 0 ohm. This didn't make the situation any better though. Still, the situation over all is much better now than it was last time I looked at the drive (over two years ago now I think). Previously the heads would attempt to load and then the fault lamp would come on immediately. At least now it's trying to lock onto a track. I have the same results with two cartridges (which is all I have!). If anyone has any ideas I'd love to hear them! Aaron (Sorry, as usual, about the footer appended by my university.) This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender and delete the email and attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored where permitted by law.

3 years, 12 months

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test-drb December 2020