On 07/12/2018 09:59, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
> OK now I need a little help.
> Does anybody know of a terminal emulation program that will simulate the reader on an ASR33?
> I know about RIM and BIN loaders but how and what to feed them I have long forgotten
For a Unix or Linux machine, there's send and rsend, and several other
utilities, that you can find at Kevin McQuiggin's web page:
http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/
and on mine:
http://www.dunnington.info/public/PDP-8/
--
Pete
Pete Turnbull
I have finished the 3rd phase of my IBM 1410 SMS computer
reverse-engineering project. The first phase was writing a software
machine-cycle simulator - almost 20 years ago, in part to verify I had
usable software. The 2nd phase was writing code and setting up a
database to do the 3rd phase - capturing data from IBM Automated Logic
Diagrams (ALDs).
The ALDs comprise 752 pages from 9 of the 11 total volumes of system
schematics/engineering drawings, volumes II-X. (Volume I is the power
supply and volume XI is additional memory).
It took me roughly 375 hours of time (probably more like 450 - not all
time was captured) to capture the data into a database that contains
10,565 ALD logic blocks, 1281 "DOT functions" where outputs of gates
joined as a "Wired OR", with 4222 distinct signal names appearing as
12,398 entries on the 752 pages, and over 32,700 individual connections.
The sheets (as reprints from scanned originals) stacked up are 2" high.
The second photo is one of them (with marks I made during data capture)
is pictured here. The third photo is a screenshot of that page in the
application I developed. (The numbers at the bottom, which do not appear
on the original sheet, are a gate number on a given SMS card, the number
of inputs to that block, and the number of outputs from the block. The
little "A" characters appearing between columns represent "DOT functions."
I ran a regression in Excel to estimate the time for capturing a given
sheet, which ended up as:
Time (in minutes per page) = -7.1 +
1.00 * # ALD blocks on the page (the rectangles) +
0.50 * distinct signals coming from / going to other sheet(s) +
2.24 * # "DOT Functions" on the page +
0.15 * # of connections to/from ALD blocks on the page +
0.39 * # of edge connection locations (at the bottom)
Most of the residuals - the difference between the actual value recorded
and what the equation would calculate - were under 25%.
The "DOT Function" coefficient is probably correlated to the overall
complexity of the page - "DOT Functions" themselves were easy to enter.
The next step is to clean up some things in the application and tune the
database to perform better, at which point I expect to make the
application available via some online GIT repository so it can be used
for other SMS machines (IBM 1620, IBM 1401, IBM 7000 series and the like).
Then it will be on to synthesis of sections of the machine (CPU, memory,
console) for which I have drawings and some kind of stand-in for parts I
don't have drawings for (1414 I/O Synchronizers, tape drives, etc.).
The photos referenced can be found at the public facebook post at:
https://www.facebook.com/jay.jaeger.3/posts/2100428726685075
On Sat, Dec 8, 2018 at 1:55 AM Rod G8DGR <rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com>
wrote:
> Nice try Josh - close ? you have to change the crystal first and you
> can?t get them.
>
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/ABRACON/AB-196608MHZ-B2?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu…
>
>
> Rod Smallwood - Digital Equipment Corporation 1975 ? 1985
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Josh Dersch via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> *Sent: *08 December 2018 06:36
> *To: *General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> *Subject: *Re: PDP-8/e
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 10:29 PM Rod G8DGR via cctalk <
> cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > It can only do 110 baud !!
>
> >
>
>
>
> Unless you have an oddball SLU, this is not true -- what do you have
>
> installed? The earlier M8650 and the later M8655 can both be jumpered for
>
> higher baud rates.
>
>
>
> - Josh
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>
> > Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> >
>
> > From: Pete Turnbull via cctalk
>
> > Sent: 08 December 2018 03:15
>
> > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
>
> > Subject: Re: PDP-8/e
>
> >
>
> > On 07/12/2018 17:46, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
>
> > > On 12/07/2018 11:38 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
>
> > >> Oh good how do you set them to 110 baud?
>
> > >>
>
> > > Oh, WOW! Good catch, it only goes down to 300 baud! major screwup,
>
> > > ought to be reported to the developers.
>
> >
>
> > But wouldn't it be better to set the serial card in the PDP-8/E to
>
> > something faster anyway? Although on one of the serial cards, that
>
> > requires a crystal change, so though commonly done, may not be practical
>
> > for Rod.
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> > Pete
>
> > Pete Turnbull
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
> From: Jay Jaeger
> That code would not run in Windows of course, but it wouldn't be all
> that difficult for someone with a C programming background to move it
> to Windows under gnucc, or even Microsoft C++ or C#.
I highly recommend CygWin (which comes with 'gnucc) for doing C stuff under
Windoze:
https://www.cygwin.com/
Most Unix/Linux code just compiles and runs under it; modulo stuff that uses
things that are so Unix/Linux specific that there's no Windows equivalent,
but that's not much - fork() is even there. If you already know Unix/Linux,
it makes for a very low-learning-curve transition.
Noel
I did that sort of thing for my PDP-8/L, where the reader run drove the
RS-232 "CTS" control signal and wrote a "C" program to do simple TTY
emulation in DeSmet C back in the day.
That code would not run in Windows of course, but it wouldn't be all
that difficult for someone with a C programming background to move it to
Windows under gnucc, or even Microsoft C++ or C#.
On 12/8/2018 1:10 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
> I?m sure that would work but I only have an 8650 110 baud only card
> Rod
>
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 110 baud
>
> From: Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk
> Sent: 08 December 2018 03:41
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: PDP-8/e
>
> On 12/7/2018 7:01 PM, Pete Turnbull via cctalk wrote:
>> On 07/12/2018 17:44, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
>>> On 12/07/2018 11:22 AM, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote:
>>>> Indeed, unless you need character pacing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Actually, with the correct settings of the serial port (xon/xoff or
>>> CTS pin) the serial port driver should do this, too, so cat would work.
>>
>> A PDP-8/E doesn't have a CTS pin and the loaders don't support
>> XON/XOFF, though.
>>
> The PDP-8 needs to control the serial CTS function. This was called
> reader-run when using a Teletype machine. FOCAL won't load without it.
> You can modify the serial card (mine was an M8655) to support the
> function. Here's what I did:
>
> Cleaned up from Aaron Nabil's and Lyle Bickley's write up.
>
> ?Hack the M8655 to support reader-run by mapping it to RS-232 hardware
> flow control.
>
> 1. Cut the trace leading from Pin 1 of E54 (a 7400).? This is the input
> that clears the Reader Run FF when a new character starts to come in.
>
> 2. Jumper from Pin 1/E54 to Pin 3/E38, a spare gate on a 7400 that we
> are going to use an inverter.
>
> 3. Tie Pin 1 and Pin 2 of E38 together, and run them to Pin 20 of E19,
> the UART.
> ??? This supplies the signal to the reader-run FF that tells it that
> it's got an incoming character and to de-assert the reader-run line.
> ??? Normally this is tied to the current loop receiver, we've just
> moved it to the UART so any received data will clear the FF.
>
> 4. Cut a ground traces on 4 of E50, a 1488 RS-232 transmitter. This is
> what would normally supply the continuously asserted RTS (and DTR) signal.
>
> 5. Jumper from pin 7 of E39, a 7474 flip-flop to pins 4 of E50. E39 is
> the "reader-run flip-flop".? Now RTS follows the reader run signal.
>
> Bob
>
The Sparcstation 4/330 I reworked the NVRAM chip on....
I got it as-is from Computer Parts Barn in Asheville, NC. It was just
round the corner from my home in Oakley..
The machine wouldn't start due to NVRAM, which I fixed. It then
actually booted from the original drives, had an OS and data on it. My
curiosity was piqued. This is what I did:
I hung the drive on my PC running Linux (suse, iirc), and ran John the
Ripper on it. I didn't get the root, but I got a user password.
I hung the drive back on the Sparcstation and logged in as that user.
The machine was being used to model the exhaust from various
configurations of rocket nozzles. The previous owner turned out to be
NASA at the Marshal Space Flight Center.
I wanted root.
I set out to abuse the OS, did quite a bit, had a hunch based on the
experience while sussing the NVRAM problem. I set the date to 1970,
booted, and logged in as the valid user I'd got from good old John.
The machine bombed to a single user prompt with a kernel panic
'irrational date'. Passwd worked to change the root pw to something I
knew. I went back into the monitor cli, changed the date to the real
date, booted and logged in as root.
The version of Sunos was 2.4?
Just thought this might be helpful to someone.
Jeff
Well I got there in the end.
HyperTerm on an old DEC Celebris running W95
Thanks for all the input
Now to move some diags. over and see if we can load them
Rod
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
On 08/12/2018 09:55, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
> Nice try Josh - close ? you have to change the crystal first and you can?t get them.
Both Farnell and Mouser UK have suitable crystals. They don't have to
be the same physical size. I've changed several.
--
Pete
Pete Turnbull
On 12/8/18 1:55 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
> Nice try Josh - close ? you have to change the crystal first and you can?t get them.
Dead bug a programmable epson ttl oscillator module, available from digikey
On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 10:29 PM Rod G8DGR via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
> It can only do 110 baud !!
>
Unless you have an oddball SLU, this is not true -- what do you have
installed? The earlier M8650 and the later M8655 can both be jumpered for
higher baud rates.
- Josh
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Pete Turnbull via cctalk
> Sent: 08 December 2018 03:15
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: PDP-8/e
>
> On 07/12/2018 17:46, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
> > On 12/07/2018 11:38 AM, Rod G8DGR via cctalk wrote:
> >> Oh good how do you set them to 110 baud?
> >>
> > Oh, WOW! Good catch, it only goes down to 300 baud! major screwup,
> > ought to be reported to the developers.
>
> But wouldn't it be better to set the serial card in the PDP-8/E to
> something faster anyway? Although on one of the serial cards, that
> requires a crystal change, so though commonly done, may not be practical
> for Rod.
>
> --
> Pete
> Pete Turnbull
>
>
