test-drb October 2015

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

195 participants
329 discussions

by rickb＠bensene.com

While there are documents out there that describe the function of the Educomp/Quodata TSC8-75 Timeshare System Controller for Omnibus PDP 8 machines, I have searched high and low, and there doesn't seem to be /any/ schematics for it anywhere. I know this was a proprietary board that did some pretty interesting things to trap IOT, JMP, JSR, and HLT/OSR instructions on the PDP 8/e/f/m/a machines and provide additional capabilities versus DEC's Memory Extension and Timeshare Control board. I have a fantasy of being able to run ETOS on real PDP 8/e hardware, but I don't have one of these boards, and they seem to be pretty much unobtainium. There are a few of them out there, but obviously, the owners of these aren't in the mood to submit them for reverse engineering. Perhaps someone out there has already done this, or someone has documentation on the board that may include schematics that simply hasn't scanned it yet. Bitsavers comes up with nothing under the DEC archives, and there's no sign of Quodata or Educomp folders. I have read the descriptions of the function of the board, and the IOTs that make it do its things, but I just don't have the expertise on the guts of the Omnibus PDP 8 machines to be able to take this information and create a design for a board that performs these functions. I've also looked at the code in SimH that emulates the functionality of the board, but again, it isn't enough information for me to be able to figure out how to implement it in hardware. In any case, I think it'd be interesting to see if one of these boards could be reproduced. I've found some old ClassicCMP list archives that mention some stuff about ETOS documentation and folks that worked for Educomp/Quodata that were involved in the creation of ETOS and this board, but the thread died over 10 years ago. I am probably wishing for something that doesn't exist, but I figured I'd ask anyway, as maybe someone has stumbled across some of this stuff and just hasn't made it public yet. Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Museum http://oldcalculatormuseum.com

8 years, 5 months

The list seems very quiet today

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Rod Smallwood > The list seems very quiet to-day. I have had only one post this > morning. Anybody know why? They're all tired out from the large amount of traffic over the past couple of days? ;-) But seriously, it's not quite 9AM yet now, on the US East Coast (and I would guess the plurality of list members are in the US), so that's almost certainly part of it, too. Noel

8 years, 5 months

Front Panels - Update

by rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com

Hi Guys As per previous update I'm off to my silk screen printers today. Thanks to lots of help from list members I have identified most of the different PDP8/e panel types that exist. 1. PDP-8/e Type A: Selector switch starts from _vertical (12 o'clock)_ position There _is _a white line around the selector switch area. There are _no _vertical dividers between groups of three lamps 2. PDP-8/e Type B: Selector switch starts from _-15deg (11 o'clock)_ position There is _no_ white line around the selector switch area. There _are_ vertical dividing lines between groups of three lamps 3. PDP-8/f: White border and masthead with DEC logo and address Layout differs from 8/e but lamps and switches retain their positions Otherwise color scheme as per 8/e and address Corners on text and color area are rounded off. There is a pdp8/f logo to the right of the RUN light 4. PDP-8/m: White border and masthead with DEC logo and address Layout differs from 8/e but lamps and switches retain their positions Otherwise color scheme as per 8/e Corners on text and color area are rounded off. There is a pdp8/m logo to the right of the RUN light 5. PDP-8/lab (Anybody want one of these?) 6. PDP-8/industrial (Anybody want one of these?) All panels share a common basic clear plastic blank with pre-cut switch positions I intend to have both 8/e and 8/f plus 8/m (ie two designs) printed with just shared features. The detail that makes them different will be added later. I'll ask for a matte finish. I'll tighten up the QA on how the lines delineate the holes. I'll sort out the lock and switch hole positions (coordinates from the cutouts would help if you have them) *_Work in progress_* 11/4X,11/5X,11/6X and 11/7X *_Under consideration_* Best way to produce Large, Custom and non - DEC panels I'm sure I have missed things off and just as sure somebody will tell me! Rod Smallwood

8 years, 5 months

Honeywell "Teletype"

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

it would only be reasonable if you needed it to compete a display that used that particular cased unit. adn you really had to have it... otherwise as a 33 it is vastly overpriced! Ed# In a message dated 10/29/2015 2:27:54 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, unclefalter at yahoo.ca writes: I was kind of eyeing this too but the shipping is a problem. I didn't know Teletype did the 'private label' kind of thing? So $2500 is reasonable for something like that? -----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of David Williams Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2015 1:02 PM To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Honeywell "Teletype" > > That looks pretty clean. I haven't seen one in the UK at anywhere near that price. Looking at US prices its almost worth shipping if I could find a set of 50hz gears.... > They do pop up now and then. I actually purchased mine though Ebay, last year for ?300. The seller originally had it listed for ?500 but had no bidders. Cheers, Dave ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.6172 / Virus Database: 4450/10864 - Release Date: 10/21/15 Internal Virus Database is out of date.

8 years, 5 months

Massey Dickinson - help identify

by mail.nickallen＠gmail.com

Looking for help identifying these 2 pieces of Massey Dickinson equipment. I was told this machine is a trainer of sorts, but have my doubts: https://goo.gl/photos/ktBMTiYXxLZd8dH1A But per the research I have done, the only reference of Massey Dickinson and PDP8s are for Data Acquisition, I assume that is what this machine is for (was interfaced to a PDP8i): https://goo.gl/photos/cqwTHmb6QhGKfgwy9 Thanks everyone! -Nick

8 years, 5 months

Honeywell "Teletype"

by jws＠jwsss.com

I'm curious. This auction appears to be for an ASR33 in a Honeywell box. If so $1200 is way too much for a funny case unless you like plastic with "Honeywell" on it. Any ideas? RARE-Vintage-Honeywell-Teletype-Machine http://www.ebay.com/itm/201442852051 Thanks Jim

8 years, 5 months

Trying to get my RLV11 working

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Ben Sinclair > A while back I was talking to someone else who suggested using a ribbon > cable from the controller to directly inside the drive. I've heard that suggestion too... > That technically will fit if I remove the ribbon inside the drive that > goes to the external connectors, but then I won't have a terminator > installed. I do have a terminator though! The cable from the CPU would have to have two connectors on the RL02 end; one would plug into the drive's logic board, and the other to the outbound connector, where you can plug in the terminator. AFAIK that cable is purely a bus (i.e. no radial per-drive wires), so you should just be able to run it to the second connector, no issue. However, I'm too lazy to check to make sure that's absolutely 100% accurate. :-) > I think what I really need, since I don't have a cab kit or anything, > is a bc80m, which I believe is a ribbon with a ground lug on the > controller side, and whatever type of connector the drive uses on the > other end. I think you mean a Berg connector which will plug directly into the RLV11, not "ground lug", right? Yes, if you don't have a cab kit, that's the cable you need. It's not a ribbon cable, but a round cable (the connectors the drives use only come in regular cable form, not ribbon cable - AFAIK). > Not that I can even find a cable like that anywhere currently... RLOx cables of _any_ kind are very hard to find. There are discussions under way about making new ones; there is a supply (used) of the wierd-ass connector that plugs into the back of the drive which could be used. > I unfortunately don't have an extender card... Others have pointed you at Douglas; here's the page for all their extender cards: http://www.douglas.com/index.php/off-the-shelf-solutions/bread-boards-by-fu… which includes a hex, but those aren't any use (that I can think of) to people with QBUS machines. (Useful things to have it you're trying to maintain a vintage PDP-11; one is, perforce, forced to become one's own Field Circus person - unless you're lucky and happen to live close to a PDP-11 hardware expert who's willing to come salve one's machine.) > From: Johnny Billquist > Well, not important. We're now beyond that point. The boards are > working well enough that we can address them... Well, but he might still have a problem on them. Although fixing such would be a challenge... Noel

8 years, 5 months

Trying to get my RLV11 working

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Ben Sinclair > the bc80m cable .. which I believe is a ribbon type of connector with a > ground strap on one end, then a round cable to the berg connector for > the back of the RL02. I think it's the cable pictured here: > http://www.cosam.org/computers/dec/pdp11-23/20080403.html Yes, that's the cable. But there's no ribbon cable anywhere in it: the individual wires from the round cable go directly to the Berg (aka Du Pont) female connector, which plugs into the male Berg header on the board. The other end does not have a Berg connector, it's some sort of wierd-ass connector that I don't know the proper name for. (The RK0[67] also uses them, and I think maybe the MASSBUS too?) > The RLV11 and RLV12 seem hard to find, at least on eBay They come by occasionally. I can probably find an RLV12 for you if you want/need one. > so fixing this one might be the way to go! Fixing an RLV11 is not for hardware beginners. Think logic analyzer, at least. > From: Johnny Billquist > I would primarily expect 16 bits addresses to be used on a KDF-11, but > I could be wrong. 11/23 ODT addresses are always 18-bit (whether the MMU chip is installed or not); I don't know if attempting to look at memory above 56KB works without the MMU, though. > Early revisions only supported 18 bit addressing, but later models > supported 22 bit addressing. But how that is reflected in the micro-ODT > on a KDF-11 I don't know. I already bitched about this! Although it supports Q22 _on the bus_, their ODT only supports Q18. There's no way to fiddle with high memory, except via program! > I don't even know if it's actually micro-ODT, or some more primitive > console mode on that CPU. AFAIK, it's the same ODT as all the other QBUS -11's (03, 73, etc - although the /03 has the 'L' bootloader command that none of the others do, along with a couple of other odd minor ones like '@'). Noel

8 years, 6 months

Trying to get my RLV11 working

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Ben Sinclair > According to the Microcomputer Interfaces Handbook, my H9273 backplane > should be all ABCD. Yup, that was one of the first things I checked - whilst realizing that if it wasn't, it was too late... :-) > Am I correct in that I shouldn't have any problem using the RLV11 in > that backplane? Not that I am aware of. Noel

8 years, 6 months

Up for Auction: Memory from the First Computer in Space

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Steven Malikoff > a Raytheon module from a Block 1 AGC > ... > I don't think the Block 1's were flown(?). Yes, but not on manned flights. (Researching this is made more complex because there were quite a few different AGC designs; AGC3, AGC4, AGC4B, AGC5 and AGC6, in addition to Block I and Block II.) Sources differ a bit: "Journey to the Moon" (Eldon Hall) says (pg. 107) that Apollo 6 was "the last flight with Block I guidance system equipment" - but it's not clear if that refers to the AFC. "Digital Apollo" (David Mindell) says (pg. 175) that Apollo 5 was "the first Block II computer flight". So somewhere around there. (Apollo 7 was the first manned flight, and the first Block II spacecraft, per Mindell, pg. 176 - note that Block II spacecraft apparently != Block II AGC - very confusing!) Both excellent books, BTW - highly recommend them both. Noel

8 years, 6 months

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test-drb October 2015