test-drb January 2015

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

175 participants
253 discussions

Restoration Best Practice RE: Subject: Knowledge Base (was RE: Restoration technique [Was: Re: Bay Area: IBM 4341 and HP3000]

by dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com

I try and blog my restorations here:- http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/blog.php?18268-g4ugm but I often forget. Actually recording what you have done is really important and is often forgotten or over looked. The last thing you want to do when you wife drags you away from the home workshop is write up what you have done mot it is really important. I also try and change things in a reversible manner. If I replace capacitors I keep and record where they came from. I don't suppose this will ever be of interest to any one else, but it might be... Dave G4UGM -----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Marc Verdiell Sent: 16 January 2015 09:02 To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Subject: Subject: Knowledge Base (was RE: Restoration technique [Was: Re: Bay Area: IBM 4341 and HP3000] I am relatively new here but joining this mailing list has helped me almost immediately. Thank you Jay and others for doing this and contributing a professional grade infrastructure. The wiki is an idea, but an alternative that I wish would exist is a repository for restoration logs. Something that you could follow and comment on, and that allows attachment of slightly richer media to posts (photos, docs) in the context of someone's specific restoration project. You learn so much from these. I know people already do it individually, but not in a centralized searchable place (you have to chance upon them), and often in an annoying reverse chronology "blog" format that's ill adapted for this usage. Or a museum style static website that does not relate the problem solving path (including things that fail) that a restoration is. In other "build oriented" groups I belong to, we do this very successfully by encouraging individual build log threads in a Forum format. That's in addition to a catch-all "string of consciousness" mailing list like this one. Is that anything that could be considered? Marc > Message: 21 > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 14:42:34 -0600 > From: "Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org> > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Knowledge Base (was RE: Restoration technique [Was: Re: Bay > Area: IBM 4341 and HP3000] > Message-ID: <004a01d0303a$a11eefa0$e35ccee0$(a)classiccmp.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > So.. about this "knowledgebase" of restoration techniques. > > Apparently new folks don't know and some older listmembers don't remember... > > We did start a "wiki" for people to post restoration tips, repair tips, etc. > This was done about 8 years ago. When I first brought up the idea > there was a lot of discussion on the list as to if it was a good idea > or not. Many people had very good thoughts as to why it would be > wonderful, and many other people had equally good thoughts as to why it would not be wonderful. > > In any case, I set it up. We found that there was an initial flurry of > posting, and then virtually nothing. Statistics showed it was not used > very much at all. There were a handful of issues as I recall (not my > implementation of it, but in the general idea of a > repair/troubleshooting/restoration "wiki"). I only remember one of > them at the moment... and that was that someone would post an article > without really having detailed expertise in that given area and then > someone that DID have expertise in that area would (for lack of a > better term) contramand that article or write a separate one with > conflicting info which made it hard for a novice to really sift > through the information. In short, everyone has an opinion and at > times the articles directly conflicted with another and someone seeking knowledge wouldn't know who to believe. > > That being said, if people really want to give this another try, I > would be happy to turn on the old classiccmp knowledge base (I'm 99% > sure it's stored but just not turned on), or I could easily have one > of my support staff dump a wiki installation to a folder there (under > classiccmp) and we could give it a try again. I'm all for it, but for > it to be successful - it has to be due to contribution/acceptance by > the membership at large. My proclivity at this point would be to > install a new wiki and then pull articles already posted in the old "wiki" into it. > > And yes, if it's to be in the classiccmp.org domain, I'd have to host > it. I have not yet seen a scenario where we'd be willing to point an > a-record off-site (but that's not to say some future situation might > get a different response). > > Best, > J

9 years, 11 months

Subject: Knowledge Base (was RE: Restoration technique [Was: Re: Bay Area: IBM 4341 and HP3000]

by marc.verdiell＠gmail.com

I am relatively new here but joining this mailing list has helped me almost immediately. Thank you Jay and others for doing this and contributing a professional grade infrastructure. The wiki is an idea, but an alternative that I wish would exist is a repository for restoration logs. Something that you could follow and comment on, and that allows attachment of slightly richer media to posts (photos, docs) in the context of someone's specific restoration project. You learn so much from these. I know people already do it individually, but not in a centralized searchable place (you have to chance upon them), and often in an annoying reverse chronology "blog" format that's ill adapted for this usage. Or a museum style static website that does not relate the problem solving path (including things that fail) that a restoration is. In other "build oriented" groups I belong to, we do this very successfully by encouraging individual build log threads in a Forum format. That's in addition to a catch-all "string of consciousness" mailing list like this one. Is that anything that could be considered? Marc > Message: 21 > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 14:42:34 -0600 > From: "Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org> > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Knowledge Base (was RE: Restoration technique [Was: Re: Bay > Area: IBM 4341 and HP3000] > Message-ID: <004a01d0303a$a11eefa0$e35ccee0$(a)classiccmp.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > So.. about this "knowledgebase" of restoration techniques. > > Apparently new folks don't know and some older listmembers don't remember... > > We did start a "wiki" for people to post restoration tips, repair tips, etc. > This was done about 8 years ago. When I first brought up the idea there was > a lot of discussion on the list as to if it was a good idea or not. Many > people had very good thoughts as to why it would be wonderful, and many > other people had equally good thoughts as to why it would not be wonderful. > > In any case, I set it up. We found that there was an initial flurry of > posting, and then virtually nothing. Statistics showed it was not used very > much at all. There were a handful of issues as I recall (not my > implementation of it, but in the general idea of a > repair/troubleshooting/restoration "wiki"). I only remember one of them at > the moment... and that was that someone would post an article without really > having detailed expertise in that given area and then someone that DID have > expertise in that area would (for lack of a better term) contramand that > article or write a separate one with conflicting info which made it hard for > a novice to really sift through the information. In short, everyone has an > opinion and at times the articles directly conflicted with another and > someone seeking knowledge wouldn't know who to believe. > > That being said, if people really want to give this another try, I would be > happy to turn on the old classiccmp knowledge base (I'm 99% sure it's stored > but just not turned on), or I could easily have one of my support staff dump > a wiki installation to a folder there (under classiccmp) and we could give > it a try again. I'm all for it, but for it to be successful - it has to be > due to contribution/acceptance by the membership at large. My proclivity at > this point would be to install a new wiki and then pull articles already > posted in the old "wiki" into it. > > And yes, if it's to be in the classiccmp.org domain, I'd have to host it. I > have not yet seen a scenario where we'd be willing to point an a-record > off-site (but that's not to say some future situation might get a different > response). > > Best, > J

9 years, 11 months

Netware/IP 1.1

by BHuntsman＠mail2.cu-portland.edu

Just curious, anyone on here ever work with Netware/IP 1.1? Don't laugh, but anyone still have an old copy for sale? :) Thanks!

9 years, 11 months

Restoration technique [Was: Re: Bay Area: IBM 4341 and HP3000]

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Sean Caron > This, too, is something I'd be willing potentially to host gratis, > given the same caveats that I offered Alexandre... Please do! I will volunteer to start contributing content as soon as it's up. > not totally a commercial datacenter in terms of available bandwidth I can't imagine a wiki on the topic of classic computers would draw _that_ much traffic? :-) > I wouldn't have a problem supporting Mediawiki or common back-end > technologies in general i.e. PHP, MySQL... Please get yourself totally up to speed to run a wiki, then! :-) > I can host DNS if someone wanted to get a domain name for it... Why do we need a new domain name? Why not call it "wiki.classiccmp.org"? Pick out one of your statics, let Jay know it, and if he can update the DNS config file for the classiccmp.org zone we're done! Noel

9 years, 11 months

IBM System/36 follow up

by tots＠matinino.com

Hi everyone, Back to you guys with a small gallery of pictures of the machine via Dropbox. It is a 5360 system ( 1m? / 700 pounds), with french labeled panel. I have not tried to open its guts yet. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fiyipqf9p92mery/AACAXjdASRhVNHM9sPCzh6DVa?dl=0 The system is located in Martinique (French West Indies). It had only one owner, a Medical Laboratory that bought it between 1985-1987 I think and used it on a network with at least 4 maybe 5 terminals and a printer. The system used a software sold by a Paris based company that still exist and keeps on selling software solutions on AS/400 architecture. The Laboratory migrated to new hardware. Later it moved and left the 5360 in the old place. I have no clue about the configuration but I know it had a hard drive and it supported floppy disk banks. From what I've been told, there is no way it can shipped by boat to North America. Simply because you have to fill up a container to be able to make a cargo shipment, and very very few stuff goes this direction so it would take a long while before fullfilling the requirement. The only easy shipping option to North-America is by airplane which is quite a proposition for a 1m? / 320kg box. To send it as a whole to Europe instead is quite easy. There is freight boarding every week and containers are on heavy rotation. Shipping to the main port destination which is "Le Havre, France" would in the vinicity of 500 euros, though some taxes in arrival are to be expected (20% on the items value). I will search the place so more, maybe I can find some documentation. Truly Yours, Hector

9 years, 11 months

Fw: Thin skins [Was: Restoration technique [Was: Re: Bay Area: IBM 4341 and HP3000]]

by mhs.stein＠gmail.com

Sorry; meant to send that privately. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Stein" <mhs.stein at gmail.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2015 1:34 PM Subject: Re: Thin skins [Was: Restoration technique [Was: Re: Bay Area: IBM 4341 and HP3000]] > From: "Sean Caron" <scaron at umich.edu> > Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2015 11:23 AM > Subject: Re: Thin skins [Was: Restoration technique [Was: Re: Bay Area: > IBM 4341 and HP3000]] > >> You can read yourself all the threads and decide for yourself, if they >> were >> being written to you, would you find them offensive? > > No. > > It is always *our* choice how to interpret and feel about things we read > and hear and whether to make the effort to understand rather than just > react. > > All Jay said is that his setup, collective experience etc. is perhaps more > suited to this sort of thing than yours but he welcomes you and anyone who > wants to add to the resources available to this community. > > What does offend me is your Straw Man arguments and name calling; Jay a > "bully" ? > > --- > Description of Straw Man > > The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's > actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented > version of that position. > --- > > 'nuff said. > > m

9 years, 11 months

front panel LED help sought

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Yep, I'm still working on "restoration" of the Microdata Reality. I say "restoration", because due to another restoration project that actually has a deadline, I only have time to clean up the microdata and repair just obvious visual brokenness, not actually start testing/repairing it electronically. That will come after the "deadline project" J As most know, schematics and detailed documentation are nonexistent for this machine. I've done the rack, the disc drive, the tape drive, and the power supply. On to the last item, the front panel. Virtually all of the LED's on the front panel board had so much mouse pee that the leads on the LEDS actually corroded through, so I need to replace them all. Without schematics, can anyone suggest how I might go about determining a suitable replacement LED from an electrical perspective? Pictures at www.ezwind.net/microdata/restoration Best, J

9 years, 11 months

Announcing TCP/IP for RSX-11M-PLUS

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Johnny Billquist > But for people who actually wants to read several hundred K of > MACRO-11... Here is your chance... :-) Ah. Was going to ask what the TCP/IP itself was written in. Well, at least it's an 8-bit machine - think about writing a TCP/IP in PDP-10 MACRO... :-) Noel

9 years, 11 months

Dan Tumey

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

It is David Tumey and he is on the Greenkeys list. Regards Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bill > Sudbrink > Sent: 14 January 2015 22:24 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Subject: Dan Tumey > > Is he on this list? The University of Iowa's PDP-8 restoration site says he is > producing beautiful replacement Teletype hammer pads: > > http://homepage.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/pdp8/UI-8/log.shtml > > I'd love to get a few for my tty. > > Bill S.

9 years, 11 months

front panel LED help sought

by alexandre.tabajara＠gmail.com

Jay, leds hasn't changed much from years ago. Electronicaly, i believe any led of same size/format/color will fit. Of course i can dig deeper if you want enviado do meu telemovel Em 14/01/2015 19:25, "Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org> escreveu: Yep, I'm still working on "restoration" of the Microdata Reality. I say "restoration", because due to another restoration project that actually has a deadline, I only have time to clean up the microdata and repair just obvious visual brokenness, not actually start testing/repairing it electronically. That will come after the "deadline project" J As most know, schematics and detailed documentation are nonexistent for this machine. I've done the rack, the disc drive, the tape drive, and the power supply. On to the last item, the front panel. Virtually all of the LED's on the front panel board had so much mouse pee that the leads on the LEDS actually corroded through, so I need to replace them all. Without schematics, can anyone suggest how I might go about determining a suitable replacement LED from an electrical perspective? Pictures at www.ezwind.net/microdata/restoration Best, J

9 years, 11 months

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test-drb January 2015