test-drb March 2013

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

200 participants
326 discussions

Help with RK8e-RK05J diagnostics on PDP-8m

by steve＠tronola.com

At 04:05 AM 3/15/2013, David Gesswein wrote: >G version here >http://www.pdp8online.com/pdp8cgi/os8_html?act=dir;fn=images/os8/ras.rk05;s… >Click more to convert to various formats for download. --- Thanks, David. I had not realized the power of the "more" option beside each OS/8 file in the catalog on your great website. It worked beautifully, translating the SV format to the Bin-loader format for me. Was able to load and run that diagnostic and apply the results to the correct version documentation. I'm now trying to interpret the results... All the best, Steve L.

11 years, 9 months

DEC PDP-11-era UART

by pbirkel＠gmail.com

The early PDP-11 uses a ?DEC 1801 UART? in multiple modules. I?ve had no luck identifying a comparable chip that could be substituted when doing repairs as there?s a remarkable dearth of information regarding the characteristics of this part, excepting the pin-out as seen in engineering drawings. (No, I haven?t yet tried pin-out matching ... next step.) Ideally the part would be both HW and SW compatible, but clearly SW compatibility is key! Does anyone have any experience with this part, repairing boards where this part has failed, or other words-of-wisdom to offer? Thanks, paul

11 years, 9 months

Help with RK8e-RK05J diagnostics on PDP-8m

by steve＠tronola.com

Hi folks, Does anyone have the matching documentation (doc) file for a version of RK8e Drive Control Test Diagnostics? I'm trying to debug an RK8e-RK05J setup. The best set of doc and code that I have found is: - maindec-08-dhrkb-e-pb.bin - the E-version code - maindec-08-dhrkb-g-pb.pdf - the G-version doc - A table of certain E to G version addresses but many appear to be wrong --- Note that the dhrkb part identifies the program and the dash-letter, the version. I also have the code for dhrkb versions B and C but not the doc. The problem is that to make sense of a detected error, you have to relate a PC location reference printed by the diagnostic to the program listing provided in the doc. Finding the G-version code or the doc for versions B, C or E, would solve the immediate problem. The original doc files might have been named in the format: maindec-08-dhrkb-e.d, for example. The specific error which I am seeing with dhrkb-E is that it halts at location 5340, with AC=0 after printing: Status Register Error PC=0552 GD=6000 CM=3000 DA=0040 ...where PC is the location where the error occurred, GD the expected value, CM the command register value and DA the disk address register. The issue I am finding with the table is that the location 0552 doesn't appear there and all the locations in the range of 400-1000 appear to fall in basic user interface routines in the G-version listing. Thus they don't appear to be valid diagnostic tests. The table was found here: http://dustyoldcomputers.com/pdp-common/reference/papertapes/maindec/mainde… Any assistance would be appreciated. Thanks, Steve L. http://www.tronola.com/ At 05:46 AM 3/14/2013, you wrote: >Send cctech mailing list submissions to > cctech at classiccmp.org > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cctech-request at classiccmp.org > >You can reach the person managing the list at > cctech-owner at classiccmp.org > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Fun Power Supply repair tip (David Riley) > 2. Re: Fun Power Supply repair tip (Brent Hilpert) > 3. Re: Fun Power Supply repair tip (Jim Stephens) > 4. An amazing looking Sun 3/280 (mc68010) > 5. more books FFS (David Griffith) > 6. 5151 hunt... (geneb) > 7. Re: Xerox 820-II & external FDC (Dave Land) > 8. Re: An amazing looking Sun 3/280 (Jim Stephens) > 9. Re: An amazing looking Sun 3/280 (mc68010) > 10. Re: An amazing looking Sun 3/280 (Brent Hilpert) > 11. Re: HP 9830 computer and HP 9860 mark-sense card reader > (Brent Hilpert) > 12. Re: An amazing looking Sun 3/280 (Glen Slick) > 13. Re: VT102 (John Wilson) > 14. Re: An amazing looking Sun 3/280 (mc68010) > 15. Re: An amazing looking Sun 3/280 (mc68010) > 16. Education & vintage/classic computing (Murray McCullough) > 17. Vacuum tube and semiconductor cross ref and current > replacements (Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus) > 18. All about CRT tubes, and HP semiconductor PN cross ref > (Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus) > 19. Re: Care and Feeding of Vacuum Tubes (Valves) (Christian Kennedy) > 20. Re: Care and Feeding of Vacuum Tubes (Valves) (William Donzelli) > 21. Re: Care and Feeding of Vacuum Tubes (Valves) (Jim Stephens) > 22. Re: Care and Feeding of Vacuum Tubes (Valves) (Dave McGuire) > 23. Re: VT102 (Mouse) > 24. Re: Education & vintage/classic computing (Brent Hilpert) > 25. Re: Education & vintage/classic computing (Dave Caroline) > 26. Re: Care and Feeding of Vacuum Tubes (Valves) (Chuck Guzis) > 27. Re: Care and Feeding of Vacuum Tubes (Valves) (David Riley) > 28. Re: More fun stuff-bring out the vacuum tubes! (David Riley) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 19:46:03 -0400 >From: David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: Re: Fun Power Supply repair tip >Message-ID: <48A05E00-8483-447F-A775-D8AE03032570 at gmail.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >On Mar 13, 2013, at 7:01 PM, Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Well, turns out that someone (me!) had installed the wrong fuse -- it was a >> 2.5A fuse where a 10A was required (F2 takes the 2.5A, btw). Apparently >> when fuses start to give out they draw a lot of current -- lesson learned >> :). > >Good thing to look out for! If I were to nitpick, though, I'd probably >point out that it's not that the fuse is starting to draw a lot of >current, but rather that it's starting to drop a lot of voltage as the >I in the IV term of Ohm's law goes way above its intended range. The >glowing is a tangential result (P = I^2*R). > > >- Dave > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:03:29 -0700 >From: Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: Re: Fun Power Supply repair tip >Message-ID: <C907175E-7391-4814-BDC0-F440A4F1ADF0 at cs.ubc.ca> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > >On 2013 Mar 13, at 4:01 PM, Josh Dersch wrote: > >> Hey all -- >> >> This'll probably rank as a "duh" moment for most of you but I >> thought I'd >> share (mostly because it amused me): >> >> I was trying to figure out why the unregulated 8VDC line of my >> SWTPC 6800's >> power supply kept dipping so suddenly under moderate load (and why >> it would >> keep falling and falling as long as I left it running that way...) >> >> The overall behavior was: >> >> - Power up with minimal load (just the motherboard w/it's onboard >> regulator): 8V line was fine at about 8.7V. >> - Add up to two RAM cards and the 8V was still at around 8.3 or so. >> - Add a third card and 8V drops to 6.5V and continues to drop >> steadily over >> time. >> >> This had me scratching my head. Then I happened to notice that the >> fuse >> (F1 on the 12V supply board) was glowing a dull orange and getting >> brighter. >> >> Well, turns out that someone (me!) had installed the wrong fuse -- >> it was a >> 2.5A fuse where a 10A was required (F2 takes the 2.5A, btw). >> Apparently >> when fuses start to give out they draw a lot of current -- lesson >> learned >> :). >> >> Fuse replaced and all is happy. So, the lesson is: check your fuses >> carefully. > >Interesting fault mode, but I wouldn't express that as the fuse >"drawing a lot of current". That fuse should be the one in the +8V >line and it looks like what was happening is your cards were drawing >current just short of blowing the fuse. As the fuse filament heated >up it's resistance increased, so more of the +8 supply voltage was >dropping across the fuse, reducing the +8V output level. (Overall >current should actually be going down). > >Yay, another SWTPC 6800 (I have one too). > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:07:32 -0700 >From: Jim Stephens <jws at jwsss.com> >To: cctalk at classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: Fun Power Supply repair tip >Message-ID: <514114C4.8030905 at jwsss.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >On 3/13/2013 4:01 PM, Josh Dersch wrote: >> This had me scratching my head. Then I happened to notice that the fuse >> (F1 on the 12V supply board) was glowing a dull orange and getting brighter. >> >> Well, turns out that someone (me!) had installed the wrong fuse -- it was a >> 2.5A fuse where a 10A was required (F2 takes the 2.5A, btw). Apparently >> when fuses start to give out they draw a lot of current -- lesson learned >If you had that behavior, it sounds like you were using a fusetron time >delay fuse. > >The fuses will run at 100% overload indefinitely, handle 10x for a spike >and blow greater than that. > >if you had one of the fuses w/o the slow blow, then it would have run >for a while and then blown as well, but you don't get the more precise >overload time delay on that type of fuse. The fusing element may blow >by overload somewhere in the conductor, or with an overload, the solder >at each end of the fuse envelope may fail and it will blow then. > >It is interesting that you saw a change in current going thru the fuse >though, sort of indicates the fuse wasn't working so well. Also with >that amount of heat into the phenolic fuse holder, you can probably >expect it to be very fragile and fail at some point due to the spring >load in it. I've seen fuse holders which didn't have glowing fuses, but >overloaded ones fail that way. > >Never had one I knew first hand had an incandescent fuse in it though, >that is a bit worrisome. > >jim > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 4 >Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:40:56 -0700 >From: mc68010 <mc68010 at gmail.com> >To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: An amazing looking Sun 3/280 >Message-ID: <51411C98.5060606 at gmail.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > >In all my years of messing with Sun gear I have never seen such a clean >looking and neat 3/280. Even back in the early 90's. It looks like it >was just unboxed. I wouldn't pay $2k for it but, it is beautiful if your >into Sun 3 boxes. It's almost Sun 3 porn. > >http://www.ebay.com/itm/151011714493 > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 5 >Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:51:35 -0700 (PDT) >From: David Griffith <dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu> >To: cctalk at classiccmp.org >Subject: more books FFS >Message-ID: > <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303131750390.9974 at sleipnir.cs.csubak.edu> >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII > > >I have two more books free for shipping. The Fortran 77 one is gone. >Here's what I have: > >*Motorola CMOS/NMOS Special Functions Data (1986) >*Turbo C Reference Guide (1987) from Borland >*UNIX Primer Plus by Waite Group Staff (1983, Softcover) >*Introduction to WordStar by Arthur Naiman (1983, Paperback) >*WordStar with Style by Roger White (1983, Paperback) >*The Illustrated CP/M WordStar Dictionary with MailMerge and SpellStar >*Word Processing on the Kaypro by Peter A. McWilliams (1983, Paperback) > >Take one or many. > >-- >David Griffith >dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu > >A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. >Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? >A: Top-posting. >Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 6 >Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 18:09:24 -0700 (PDT) >From: geneb <geneb at deltasoft.com> >To: cctalk at classiccmp.org >Subject: 5151 hunt... >Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.03.1303131808550.10781 at deltasoft.com> >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII > >Found one thanks to a listmember. > >Still chasing a 5150 compatible keyboard. > >tnx. > >-gene > > >-- >Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 >http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. >http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. >Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. > >ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment >A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. >http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 7 >Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 19:29:02 -0600 >From: Dave Land <xmechanic at landcomp.net> >To: cctalk at classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: Xerox 820-II & external FDC >Message-ID: <514127DE.9070407 at landcomp.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >On 3/13/13 5:59 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote: >> On Tue, 12 Mar 2013, mc68010 wrote: >> >>> On 3/12/2013 5:43 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote: >>>> On Tue, 12 Mar 2013, mc68010 wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 3/11/2013 11:37 AM, Enrico Lazzerini wrote: >>>>>> Hi, I received a Xerox 820-II mainboard. I've found that does not >>>>>> have a FDC >>>>>> on board and that the 37-pin connector used to connect the floppy >>>>>> disk it >>>>>> seems to have a bus and its own protocol to talk to an external FDC >>>>>> board >>>>>> outside. Is there anybody who knows more and is it there a way to >>>>>> try to >>>>>> connect and operate the drive with this mainboard? >>>>>> >>>> >>>>> Having cleaned the heads, about every other disk going through a box >>>>> of 8" 820 disk, sthere is nothing in the drive other than the drives >>>>> and a power supply. I am not sure if the 820-II is different but, I >>>>> doubt it. The cable just splits off to each drive. Everything is on >>>>> the mainboard. >>>> >>>> My 82O-II does indeed have its floppy controller on a daughterboard. >>>> I suspect this is a different arrangement from the original 820 aka >>>> Ferguson Bigboard. >> >>> I am sure you are right but, I don't see anything but a power supply >>> with the floppy drives in this video. Looks identical to the non II >>> floppy units I had. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9OwwolhLuE >> >> I think we're talking about different cases. The disk controller is >> clearly visible in the closeup of the computer itself. It may have been >> a different PCB in the floppy vs. hard-disk system. >> >> On a related subject, I would love to get my hands on an 820-II with >> hard drive. Had two lined up at different points but both sellers >> flaked out and stopped answering e-mail. Wonder if there's some sort of >> distortion field projected from these units? >> >> If anybody has one they'd like to part with, I can do cash or trade. >> >> Steve >> >> > >Don't guess I'll be getting rid of mine for a while, after all the crap >I went through to get some software on to it, LOL! Besides, I don't know >how well the hard drive would stand up to any kind of shipping stress by >the usual gorillas from USPS, Fedex, etc. > >-- >Dave Land >Land Computer Service > >Check out my site at http://www.landcomp.net > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 8 >Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 21:52:26 -0700 >From: Jim Stephens <jws at jwsss.com> >To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: Re: An amazing looking Sun 3/280 >Message-ID: <5141578A.2070907 at jwsss.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > >On 3/13/2013 5:40 PM, mc68010 wrote: >> In all my years of messing with Sun gear I have never seen such a >> clean looking and neat 3/280. Even back in the early 90's. It looks >> like it was just unboxed. I wouldn't pay $2k for it but, it is >> beautiful if your into Sun 3 boxes. It's almost Sun 3 porn. >> >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/151011714493 >> >> >I had two 4/280's like that, wish I could have held on to them. Also was >at an auction with 8 systems in a complex from a database development >company. Gorgeous hardware for them, crap execution on the s/w. > >I fired up the systems and ran backups for the auctioneer and myself of >their development systems. > >was pretty cool. > >jim > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 9 >Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 22:36:17 -0700 >From: mc68010 <mc68010 at gmail.com> >To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: Re: An amazing looking Sun 3/280 >Message-ID: <514161D1.6060700 at gmail.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >On 3/13/2013 8:34 PM, Glen Slick wrote: >> I don't have those panels to close up the rear of the rack. I've only >> powered up mine a few times since I picked it up a couple of years >> ago. I should really find a new home for it in the Seattle area. -Glen > >I have never even seen those rear panels before. I have seen so many 3/4 >280 systems over the years but, they have always been uncovered in the >back. That's the cleanest 3/280 ever. I wonder if it was actually used. >First thing I would probably have done back then is take off the rear >panels and toss them. What a pain to have to unscrew all that to get at >anything. Anyone know about the keylock on the front ? I've never seen a >keylock there before. Nothing really worth getting at on that side of a >x/280 case. If it only held the front panel on it would only protect the >backplane and tape drive. > > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 10 >Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 22:56:46 -0700 >From: Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: Re: An amazing looking Sun 3/280 >Message-ID: <61715879-FC8E-4D41-87D9-981228252E49 at cs.ubc.ca> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > >On 2013 Mar 13, at 9:52 PM, Jim Stephens wrote: >> On 3/13/2013 5:40 PM, mc68010 wrote: >>> In all my years of messing with Sun gear I have never seen such a >>> clean looking and neat 3/280. Even back in the early 90's. It >>> looks like it was just unboxed. I wouldn't pay $2k for it but, it >>> is beautiful if your into Sun 3 boxes. It's almost Sun 3 porn. >>> >>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/151011714493 >>> >>> >> I had two 4/280's like that, wish I could have held on to them. >> Also was at an auction with 8 systems in a complex from a database >> development company. Gorgeous hardware for them, crap execution on >> the s/w. > >Ran across a nice racked Sun 2 system with open-reel 9-track in a >storage closet at a local U just a couple years ago (pretty sure it >was a 2). I don't know now what has happened to it. > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 11 >Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 23:09:38 -0700 >From: Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: Re: HP 9830 computer and HP 9860 mark-sense card reader >Message-ID: <1988FAD9-F175-4F9A-A6FE-996B6187D8D7 at cs.ubc.ca> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > >On 2013 Mar 13, at 9:25 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote: >> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 9:38 PM, Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> >> wrote: >>> As Rob pointed out, the 9830 one must be special order to HP >>> though, to >>> obtain the lazy-T cursor, unless there's some alternative tortured >>> way >>> they're injecting the T into the display scanning that I'm not >>> seeing. >> >> Thank you for mentioning this. I've asked on the list now and >> again about >> a computer I used c. 1976 that had a "lazy-T cursor". I was quite >> young >> at the time and it was only brought to our school for a special >> occasion, >> so my memories are quite fuzzy about it, but having now googled with >> some useful keywords, I'm reasonably certain that the device I was >> trying >> to describe was an HP 9830 with an HP 9860 mark-sense card reader. >> >> It seems unlikely I'll ever end up with one, so I'm happy to have >> found >> this emulator, updated less than a year ago... >> >> http://sourceforge.net/projects/hp9800e/files/go9800/ >> >> Thanks again for the very helpful nudge in precisely the correct >> direction! > >Well that's very prescient, you're answering a question I was just >about to ask. > >Rob and I have been discussing 9830s lately (and thanks to Rob I have >one to work on here) and we realised, somewhat to our surprise, that >we had both encountered the 9830 in school in the mid-70's, in >geographically very-separated regions - Rob in the Montreal area and >me in the Vancouver area. > >Both instances had the mark-sense card reader too. Everybody sat at >their desk in class and pencil-marked off their first program (10 >PRINT "<MY NAME>"..), lined up at the computer and submitted their >card deck for batch-style processing. Keeners could use the machine >after hours and type and edit directly on the keyboard and LED >display (whoo-hoo!). > >So just how widespread or prevalent were 9830s in schools - did >anyone else here encounter the 9830 in highschool (or gradeschool)? > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 12 >Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 23:12:44 -0700 >From: Glen Slick <glen.slick at gmail.com> >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: Re: An amazing looking Sun 3/280 >Message-ID: > <CAM2UOw+g7mRf+Yn_4pYantYep0rgdt-N_6bGQ58-XxXa=qoJpg at mail.gmail.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >On Mar 13, 2013 11:06 PM, "mc68010" <mc68010 at gmail.com> wrote: >> Anyone know about the keylock on the front ? I've never seen a keylock >there before. Nothing really worth getting at on that side of a x/280 case. >If it only held the front panel on it would only protect the backplane and >tape drive. > >On the 4/280 rack I have I'm pretty sure that is a front panel key switch >which is wired to the power controller. > >-Glen > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 13 >Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 02:32:41 -0400 >From: John Wilson <wilson at dbit.com> >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: Re: VT102 >Message-ID: <20130314063241.GA1823 at dbit.dbit.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 11:18:26AM -0400, Mouse wrote: >>I'm particularly curious because I have a terminal emulator which, >>among other things, can be told to emulate something moderately close >>to a VT100. I'd like to get its wrapping behaviour right; this >>complicates the question because now I have to decide what I think >>"right" is. :-) > >I know the feeling! > >>A quick look at my code indicates that I don't quite do any of those. >>The only thing I see explicitly clearing the "wrap now" flag is tab, > >Bad news: unless I'm missing something, tab doesn't clear the wrap flag on >the VT100 or 101, and on the 102 it clears it only if the cursor moves (but >not if it was already at the right margin). > >If you want any cases tested on a real 100, 101, or 102, let me know! >It'll be easy until I get sick of having them in a row on my living room >floor. > >John Wilson >D Bit > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 14 >Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 00:11:24 -0700 >From: mc68010 <mc68010 at gmail.com> >To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: Re: An amazing looking Sun 3/280 >Message-ID: <5141781C.7020400 at gmail.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >On 3/13/2013 11:12 PM, Glen Slick wrote: >> On Mar 13, 2013 11:06 PM, "mc68010" <mc68010 at gmail.com> wrote: >>> Anyone know about the keylock on the front ? I've never seen a keylock >> there before. Nothing really worth getting at on that side of a x/280 case. >> If it only held the front panel on it would only protect the backplane and >> tape drive. >> >> On the 4/280 rack I have I'm pretty sure that is a front panel key switch >> which is wired to the power controller. >> >> -Glen > >Hmm fuzzy memories coming back. Maybe I do remember them. It just went >to some header on the power distribution deal right ? > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 15 >Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 00:26:32 -0700 >From: mc68010 <mc68010 at gmail.com> >To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: Re: An amazing looking Sun 3/280 >Message-ID: <51417BA8.2080604 at gmail.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > >On 3/13/2013 9:52 PM, Jim Stephens wrote: >> I had two 4/280's like that, wish I could have held on to them. Also >> was at an auction with 8 systems in a complex from a database >> development company. Gorgeous hardware for them, crap execution on >> the s/w. >> >> I fired up the systems and ran backups for the auctioneer and myself >> of their development systems. >> >> was pretty cool. >> >> jim > >I have had a few x/280 systems over the years but, nothing so original >as this one. They are hard to find places to keep. I got rid of all of >mine too. Back in the 90's people would beg you to take them away. The >racks they wanted to keep. I once built a stack out of 12 slot cases >3x2 on the bottom and 3 units tall. 18 in all. There was once a picture >of me standing on top that has been lost to the ages. > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 16 >Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:32:01 -0400 >From: Murray McCullough <c.murray.mccullough at gmail.com> >To: cctalk at classiccmp.org >Subject: Education & vintage/classic computing >Message-ID: > <CAMvyYF_iFy8yYZExV26hhmFeD5VJzqbZFevuqTwsVaj0QFvP7Q at mail.gmail.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >I have a question that concerns vintage/classic computing intersecting >the education world: Can anyone tell me what was the first >microcomputer used in an education setting for teaching purposes? > >Thanks. > >Murray :) > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 17 >Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:01:01 -0500 >From: "Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus" <sales at elecplus.com> >To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: Vacuum tube and semiconductor cross ref and current > replacements >Message-ID: <010701ce202d$de0dda30$9a298e90$@com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >http://www.worldtubecompany.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=TSL > > > > _____ > >No virus found in this message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 2641/6166 - Release Date: 03/12/13 > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 18 >Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:18:01 -0500 >From: "Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus" <sales at elecplus.com> >To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: All about CRT tubes, and HP semiconductor PN cross ref >Message-ID: <010c01ce2030$3e2fc480$ba8f4d80$@com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >http://www.hparchive.com/Bench_Briefs/HP-Bench-Briefs-1981-03-05.pdf > > > > > >Cindy Croxton > >Electronics Plus > >1613 Water Street > >Kerrville, TX 78028 > >(830)792-3400 phone (830)792-3404 fax > >AOL IM elcpls > > > > _____ > >No virus found in this message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 2641/6166 - Release Date: 03/12/13 > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 19 >Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:02:10 -0700 >From: Christian Kennedy <chris at mainecoon.com> >To: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com> >Cc: classiccmp at classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: Care and Feeding of Vacuum Tubes (Valves) >Message-ID: <F342C3C8-5749-4F3C-809F-EC5B2C63616C at mainecoon.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > >On 13 Mar 2013, at 4:08 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >> Do any special precautions need to be taken with storing vacuum >> tubes? > >They can get gassy. If the getters aren't nice and shiny the tube is gone; if the are it still makes sense (especially on things that run with significant B+) to bring them up on heater only and let them bake for a while. > >-- >Dr. Christian Kennedy >chris at mainecoon.com AF6AP | DB00000692 | PG00029419 >http://www.mainecoon.com PGP KeyID 108DAB97 >PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 >"Mr. McKittrick, after careful consideration..." > > > > > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 20 >Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 19:10:22 -0400 >From: William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: Re: Care and Feeding of Vacuum Tubes (Valves) >Message-ID: > <CANij+ddF+4GfaO9OE7NAOSMPdK+5V5Y+j31+3QjZWdLz_OpHkg at mail.gmail.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >> Do any special precautions need to be taken with storing vacuum tubes? Are >> these something that can simply be tossed in the attic and forgotten about >> until needed? I recently got a fair number, and expect to get more at some >> point in the future. > >Temperature extremes are really not a problem, simply because they are >made for such extremes during normal operation. Moisture can be a >problem in extreme cases, but normally not much of an issue either - >mostly the boxes suffer (and metal tubes, I suppose). The only thing >that really is bad for tubes is salt spray. Don't store your tubes in >a seaside shack. > >-- >Will > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 21 >Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:22:23 -0700 >From: Jim Stephens <jws at jwsss.com> >To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: Re: Care and Feeding of Vacuum Tubes (Valves) >Message-ID: <51410A2F.7060205 at jwsss.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > >On 3/13/2013 4:08 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> Do any special precautions need to be taken with storing vacuum >> tubes? Are these something that can simply be tossed in the attic and >> forgotten about until needed? I recently got a fair number, and >> expect to get more at some point in the future. >> >> A lot of the ones I got are simply dumped in an old metal tool box. >> >> Zane >> >> >> >A lot of them have traces of cesium or other odd agents that were used >to absorb the last bits of O2 after the vacuum was applied. > >they otherwise are glass, copper, steel, and micah, and other odd >materials which should not age much. I'd be careful of storing them to >rattle around for fear of damage. > >Also though you can peer thru the glass at the insides some of them can >be hard to figure out the number of in 40 or 60 years of storage, so >make sure that you keep them such that their legends don't get rubbed >off in storage. Some of them will have the numbers applied to the glass >via some process that really is indelible short of breaking the glass, >and I've seen some with some sort of white ink that didn't last the >lifetime of the tube (was messed up when I took it out in the 60's) >Luckily in some cases you can read the chassis to determine the numbers. > >Do you have a tester stored with the tubes? Do you have them sorted by >NOS vs. pulls? that is about the only other thing to think about. and >the other bits, capacitors and other parts won't age as well as the >tubes if you have bought and stored them. > >Jim > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 22 >Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 19:30:04 -0400 >From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> >To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: Re: Care and Feeding of Vacuum Tubes (Valves) >Message-ID: <51410BFC.2090604 at neurotica.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >On 03/13/2013 07:08 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> Do any special precautions need to be taken with storing vacuum tubes? >> Are these something that can simply be tossed in the attic and forgotten >> about until needed? I recently got a fair number, and expect to get >> more at some point in the future. >> >> A lot of the ones I got are simply dumped in an old metal tool box. > > Just don't break them (and they're tougher than they look) and they'll >be fine. I have tubes that I've stored pretty much like that, from >attic to basement to storage locker...since I was a kid, some of them I >took out of junked TVs 35 years ago, and I use them for repairs today. > > -Dave > >-- >Dave McGuire, AK4HZ >New Kensington, PA > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 23 >Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 03:51:54 -0400 (EDT) >From: Mouse <mouse at Rodents-Montreal.ORG> >To: cctalk at classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: VT102 >Message-ID: <201303140751.DAA27636 at Sparkle.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >>> A quick look at my code indicates that I don't quite do any of >>> those. The only thing I see explicitly clearing the "wrap now" flag >>> is tab, [...] >> Bad news: unless I'm missing something, tab doesn't clear the wrap >> flag on the VT100 or 101, and on the 102 it clears it only if the >> cursor moves (but not if it was already at the right margin). > >Yes, I noticed your description implied that. > >But I'm clearly misreading my code. It looks to me as though my >wrapping flag causes a wrap even if the cursor is no longer at the >right margin at the time the second printable character arrives, but >testing indicates that's not actually how it works; the behaviour I'm >seeing appears to be more like your description of the VT102 than >anything else. > >I clearly need to look at that code more closely. > >> If you want any cases tested on a real 100, 101, or 102, let me know! >> It'll be easy until I get sick of having them in a row on my living >> room floor. > >Heh. I know the syndrome. :/ > >/~\ The ASCII Mouse >\ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org >/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 24 >Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 00:56:04 -0700 >From: Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: Re: Education & vintage/classic computing >Message-ID: <52D54486-2AA5-4F97-B06D-24F6FA9618D5 at cs.ubc.ca> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > >On 2013 Mar 13, at 9:32 AM, Murray McCullough wrote: > >> I have a question that concerns vintage/classic computing intersecting >> the education world: Can anyone tell me what was the first >> microcomputer used in an education setting for teaching purposes? > > >The HP 9830 just being discussed might be one for your consideration, >depending on how you want to classify a microcomputer. It's a >desktop, 'personal' computer with built-in BASIC but the CPU is >implemented in TTL, not a single-chip microprocessor. Introduced >1972, encountered by personal experience in computer/programming >course high school 1976. > > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 25 >Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 08:00:45 +0000 >From: Dave Caroline <dave.thearchivist at gmail.com> >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: Re: Education & vintage/classic computing >Message-ID: > <CALfYgtmjLrZ_3_0qKO1cxHAcxjnaVuKPQqQWhctrLsU7dpYG6A at mail.gmail.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Murray McCullough ><c.murray.mccullough at gmail.com> wrote: >> I have a question that concerns vintage/classic computing intersecting >> the education world: Can anyone tell me what was the first >> microcomputer used in an education setting for teaching purposes? > >Define micro... >In the early days the (mid 1960's) colleges and schools were building >their own computers as >was discussed on this list a few months ago. > >for mini sized >1940's 1950' >http://www.dcs.bbk.ac.uk/about/history/ > >Dave Caroline > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 26 >Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:31:14 -0700 >From: Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> >To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: Re: Care and Feeding of Vacuum Tubes (Valves) >Message-ID: <51410C42.3000103 at sydex.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >On 03/13/2013 04:08 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> Do any special precautions need to be taken with storing vacuum tubes? >> Are these something that can simply be tossed in the attic and forgotten >> about until needed? I recently got a fair number, and expect to get >> more at some point in the future. >> >> A lot of the ones I got are simply dumped in an old metal tool box. > >Nothing that I'm aware of eats vacuum tubes--and I've got some pre-WWII >stuff that's still ticking right along. I'd be careful with excess >moisture if I had a bunch of old lighthouse tubes or any other oddball >metal-to-glas stuff. > >But, aside from mechanical shock, tubes are about as inert as one can get. > >--Chuck > > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 27 >Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 19:38:35 -0400 >From: David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: Re: Care and Feeding of Vacuum Tubes (Valves) >Message-ID: <FAC4BA8A-5EE6-45B5-A5C3-80DAB09B143C at gmail.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >On Mar 13, 2013, at 19:08, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote: > >> Do any special precautions need to be taken with storing vacuum tubes? Are these something that can simply be tossed in the attic and forgotten about until needed? I recently got a fair number, and expect to get more at some point in the future. >> >> A lot of the ones I got are simply dumped in an old metal tool box. > >Other than "be careful with them", not much. I like to wrap >mine in paper, preferably wax paper; it keeps its shape >well, which keeps the little nubbins on top of the miniature >noval tubes from fracturing. Take the same care when >transporting as you would with expensive light bulbs. >If any still have the cartons, I like to keep them in there >(wrapped in paper to immobilize). > >- Dave > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 28 >Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 19:42:26 -0400 >From: David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: Re: More fun stuff-bring out the vacuum tubes! >Message-ID: <B79BE93A-45AF-446F-9554-8E1BA8860321 at gmail.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >On Mar 13, 2013, at 6:03 PM, Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 4:50 PM, Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus >> <sales at elecplus.com> wrote: >>> http://diyaudioprojects.com/Tubes/tubes.htm >> >> Nice. I have a few old 12V tubes (NOS from a science lab that was >> decomissioned a few years back that had some parts going back to the >> mid-1950s - ancient carbon composite resistors and all). I'm looking >> at that 12V battery-powered headphone amp project as an easy >> get-started project. I think I have everything on hand except the >> tube socket. > >If you need octal or noval ones, I have a few nice ceramic ones >that I'd be glad to send one or two of. Otherwise, they're still >relatively easy to find; I like triodeelectronics.com because >they've done nicely by me in the past, but there are literally >dozens of tube vendor sites out there. > > >- Dave > > > >End of cctech Digest, Vol 115, Issue 17 >***************************************

11 years, 9 months

nCube 2 documentation

by jan＠janadelsbach.com

Hi all, I've coincidentally found some nCube 2 documentation while looking for some SGI docs on the net; There are manpages: http://rsusu1.rnd.runnet.ru/cgi-bin/man-cgi.ncube ...and some docs: http://rsusu1.rnd.runnet.ru/ncube/ndoc/ndoc.html Also there is some other info although its in Russian; http://rsusu1.rnd.runnet.ru/ncube/ Jan

11 years, 9 months

Computer Art posters

by tom_a_sparks＠yahoo.com.au

I am looking for computer Art posters for my room the art style I am look for date around 1970 to 1985 Artist: Melvin Prueitt, David Em Movies: Tron? Companies: Triple-I (Information International Inc.), Mathematical Applications Group, Inc. Constructive solid geometry, ray tracing --- tom_a_sparks "It's a nerdy thing I like to do" Child of the Internet born 1983 PGP DA98 A195 06AD 1330 7EB0??50C3 724C 9974 A7EF 6006 Please use ISO approved file formats excluding Office Open XML - http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Ubuntu wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/tomsparks

11 years, 9 months

ex-Military Console...

by jon＠jonworld.com

Hi everyone, Anyone familiar with these? A FOAF picked up a few at a surplus auction. My friend took one apart and hacked the AT keyboard and trackball to work with a Mini-ITX PC, but the guts of these are all 300VDC to 35VDC converters, among other things. The LCD seems to be 800x600. http://imgur.com/a/t1eS9 I'm figuring it could be made into a fun console with swiping some insides out (or even a dedicated MAME box/console, especially with the trackball. Think Centipede.) -Jon

11 years, 9 months

New look for retroarchive.org!

by geneb＠deltasoft.com

Please take a peek at http://www.geneb.org/glasstty and let me know what you think. If your browser supports alternate style sheets (In FireFox, it's View->Page Style), you can change the color to green. :) Thanks! g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!

11 years, 9 months

Forget UPS was Re: Shipping Heavy/Large Items Via UPS

by rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com

You can obtain large cartons from Walmart on the overnight shift. Also Home Depot and Lowes, though Lowes insist on being homos lately. You can get soft (and hard) foam slabs from the dumpsters behind large craft stores (Michaels), Pier 1 Imports, Staples (for those that still have conventional dumpsters). Sometimes cardboard is a better choice for cushioning material, use your judgment, and it adds weight. Avoid UPS. Fedex and USPS are much cheaper. But if you use Fedex you need to consider *ALL* the excessive G-forces your items will be subject to. For heavy and/or bulky items I wrap wrap wrap the box with cheapo packing tape, dollar store or Wally World, 1$ a roll. It just makes much more sense then spending 2.50-3.50$ a roll.

11 years, 9 months

More fun stuff-bring out the vacuum tubes!

by a50mhzham＠gmail.com

I have zillions of old tubes pulled from radios and TVs by a guy whose estate was sold-- except for the tubes. Nobody wanted them. I'm looking for a simple project I can build (like a stereo amp) but without the tight tolerances and high-end ultra-purist attitude I seem to find whenever I look into it. I just want to build something that will perform a basic function and look cool glowing in the dark. I also have grand-dad's old Heathkit tube tester, so I have that going for me anyhow. I've built kits before, but I'm not necessarily looking for a kit. A decent set of plans with some suggestions for physical layout and mounting, for guys like me who came of age in the 555 timer / 74xx TTL age. -T At 05:03 PM 3/13/2013, you wrote: >On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 4:50 PM, Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus ><sales at elecplus.com> wrote: > > http://diyaudioprojects.com/Tubes/tubes.htm > >Nice. I have a few old 12V tubes (NOS from a science lab that was >decomissioned a few years back that had some parts going back to the >mid-1950s - ancient carbon composite resistors and all). I'm looking >at that 12V battery-powered headphone amp project as an easy >get-started project. I think I have everything on hand except the >tube socket. > >-ethan 489 . [Commentary] All our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike --and yet it is the most precious thing we have. --Albert Einstein a50mhzham at gmail.com ? N9QQB (amateur radio) "HEY YOU" (loud shouting) ? Second Tops (Set Dancing) ? FIND ME ON FACEBOOK 43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W ? Elevation 815' ? Grid Square EN53wc LAN/Telecom Analyst ? Open-source Dude ? Musician ? Registered Linux User 385531

11 years, 9 months

Fun Power Supply repair tip

by derschjo＠gmail.com

Hey all -- This'll probably rank as a "duh" moment for most of you but I thought I'd share (mostly because it amused me): I was trying to figure out why the unregulated 8VDC line of my SWTPC 6800's power supply kept dipping so suddenly under moderate load (and why it would keep falling and falling as long as I left it running that way...) The overall behavior was: - Power up with minimal load (just the motherboard w/it's onboard regulator): 8V line was fine at about 8.7V. - Add up to two RAM cards and the 8V was still at around 8.3 or so. - Add a third card and 8V drops to 6.5V and continues to drop steadily over time. This had me scratching my head. Then I happened to notice that the fuse (F1 on the 12V supply board) was glowing a dull orange and getting brighter. Well, turns out that someone (me!) had installed the wrong fuse -- it was a 2.5A fuse where a 10A was required (F2 takes the 2.5A, btw). Apparently when fuses start to give out they draw a lot of current -- lesson learned :). Fuse replaced and all is happy. So, the lesson is: check your fuses carefully. - Josh

11 years, 9 months

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test-drb March 2013