test-drb January 2011

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

130 participants
209 discussions

by snhirsch＠gmail.com

Can someone help me out with the above? All the copies I've been able to find on the net have an md5sum consistent with a known-bad image. Thanks in advance. Steve --

13 years, 11 months

Running TSX-Plus under SIMH?

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

Just wondering if anyone has tried to run TSX-Plus under SIMH? Thanks to another list member, I was able to obtain a copy of the version 6.50 distribution (on "simulated floppy"). It took me all afternoon to re-learn how to use EDIT (which *really* makes you appreciate modern full-screen editors!) and modify TSGEN.MAC. I set it up to match the existing settings of my DLV11/16D card (whichappears as two DLV11's). TSGEN assembles without errors. There are some linker errors though, but the manual says at least some of them are to be expected. I copied the new TSX files and RT11SJ 4.0 over to the simulated RL02 and boot from it. RT-11 boots normally. But when attempting to execute TSX.SAV, SIMH gives an error and halts... I can't see anything wrong with the system generation but it's a lot of work to create a pack with VTServer for the new hardware if it's got a bug. I'm wondering if SIMH can't handle the time-sharing stuff or lack of a simulated DHV11 card. Any thoughts? thanks Charles

13 years, 11 months

Emailing: SCSI to IDE.htm

by lynchaj＠yahoo.com

SCSI to IDE Tom Gardner thomas.gardner <mailto:cctalk%40classiccmp.org?Subject=Re%3A%20SCSI%20to%20IDE&In-Reply-To= %3C5450F2940A10417780E426EC57A9C5E1%40tegp4%3E> at sbcglobal.net Wed Dec 1 17:35:52 CST 2010 * Previous message: SCSI to IDE <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/294657.html> * Next message: SCSI to IDE <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/294665.html> * Messages sorted by: [ date ] <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/date.html#294658> [ thread ] <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/thread.html#294658> [ <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/subject.html#294658> subject ] [ author ] <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/author.html#294658> _____ I haven't been following this thread too closely so I may have missed something, but it seems to me that the proposed solutions are overly complex. One simple solution that comes to mind is to define a set of vendor unique SCSI commands, one for each of the registers in the IDE command stack and then do all the emulation in the device driver on the host side. The interface card is just then a simple state machine; really simple if u make it a non arbitrating protocol implementation and use PIO for data transfers (SCSI-1 lives :-). Tom _____ * Previous message: SCSI to IDE <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/294657.html> * Next message: SCSI to IDE <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/294665.html> * Messages sorted by: [ date ] <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/date.html#294658> [ thread ] <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/thread.html#294658> [ <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/subject.html#294658> subject ] [ author ] <http://classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2010-December/author.html#294658> _____ More information <http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk> about the cctalk mailing list _____ -----REPLY----- I agree and have started a new thread for a SCSI to IDE converter board over on Vintage-Computer.com forums. If you or anyone is interested in the project stop on by and help out. http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?22906-SCSI-1-to-from- IDE-drive-converter The project is a Z80 CPU, NVSRAM, EEPROM, UART, 8255 PPI IDE, and Z53C80 SCSI-1 controller. The UART is for a serial port to program the converter board and store parameters in the NVSRAM and allows for ROM reprogramming in circuit. It is on a dual layer Eurocard and uses 14 ICs plus connectors, passives, etc. Thanks and have a nice day! Andrew Lynch

13 years, 11 months

[rescue] PDP flip chips and memory boards, many lbs. worth (fwd)

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

I figured that someone here who's not on the Sunhelp list might appreciate this. David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 20:21:26 -0500 From: Patrick Giagnocavo <patrick at zill.net> Reply-To: The Rescue List <rescue at sunhelp.org> To: The Rescue List <rescue at sunhelp.org> Subject: [rescue] PDP flip chips and memory boards, many lbs. worth Some of you here know that I recycle old PC motherboards, etc. though whenever possible I try to divert anything valuable/historical out of the melt-it-down pile. I have many pounds, well over 100lbs., of DEC PDP "flip chip" modules. I have to charge for them, but would like to sell all of them, all at once, to 1 person if possible, at a per-lb price ($8 per lb). Given that these flip chip modules are not very heavy this works out to well under $2 each, I think. Some are in original plastic shrink wrap, but most are not, and have been exposed to moisture but are otherwise complete; some have had the resistors or capacitors on them "weep" which means they would have to be replaced by someone competent with a soldering iron. A random listing of the few that I pulled out: A123 A206 A207 G728 K012 K026 K028 K123 K124 K134 K161 K202 K210 K303 K683 M113 M1502 M155 M207 M230 M502 M652 M7264 M783 M7941 M920 M974 There are many more. Are there any PDP collectors on this list - I know there used to be but perhaps this stuff is just too old these days. Cordially Patrick Giagnocavo patrick at zill.net _______________________________________________ rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

13 years, 11 months

Long term publicly accessible backups [Was: Uncorrupted A/UX 3.1 Update]

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On 1/18/11 6:07 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: > If you have people willing to make that kind of commitment, then a > few websites, plus distribution of CDs, DVDs, and whatever comes > nextwould accomplish the same thing, and would survive the total loss > of any one collection. Think Don Maslin (R.I.P.) Yeah. Using Usenet as an archiving mechanism is one of the worst ideas I've heard in a very long time. The real solution to this problem is a few people with grownup networks (i.e., people with static IP addresses who aren't afraid to actually run some computers, or someone with a machine in colo space) to set up rsync run from a cron job. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL

13 years, 11 months

SA4000 [was: Disc drive READY output -- any standards?]

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

Chuck writes: On 18 Jan 2011 at 14:18, Shoppa, Tim wrote: >> Isn't it wonderful the way the pendulum swings? First parallel >> cylinder select (e.g. SMD and other bus and tag type address >> interfaces), then step in/out cylinder select (e.g. >> SA4000/SA1000/ST-506) and serial cylinder select (e.g. ESDI), then >> parallel cylinder select (e.g. IDE/ATA/SCSI), then serial cylinder >> select (e.g. SATA). > It would seem to be more a matter of "smarts on the disk drive" than > anything. IDE/SCSI and SATA all have controllers on the drive and so > have no dedicated signal lines for positioning. In particular > IDE/SATA LBA and SCSI don't require any knowledge of the drive > geometry, other than the sector size and the total number of sectors. > > with ST506/412 and ESDI, the "smarts" were still external to the > drive. There's a difference between what the interface doesn't require a drive To do, and what the most common drive implementations actually do. (I do agree that IDE LBA and SCSI, allowing a disk to be addressed as a "big bunch of blocks", are substantially more sophisticated than purely Physical interfaces.) You might be surprised at how smart many drives were even though they were Using the "not so smart" ST1000, ST-506 or floppy interfaces. e.g. the cabling may only have "Step in" and "Step out" but on the drive the drive itself is counting which cylinder its in to apply appropriate precompensation. E.g. LSI Shugart floppy drives. Any ST-506 non-stepper-motor drive knew what cylinder it was on thanks To internal logic. The SA1000 explicitly defined "buffered step mode" whereby the step Commands on the interface could come in way faster than the physical stepper Could move, and a counter on the drive played out the steps later. So on The very first implementation, the drive was already smarter than the interface Would imply. Tim.

13 years, 11 months

SA4000 [was: Disc drive READY output -- any standards?]

by thomas.gardner＠sbcglobal.net

> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 09:13:08 -0600 > From: Jules Richardson <jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: SA4000 [was: Disc drive READY output -- any standards?] > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <4D35AE04.7070905 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed > > Tom Gardner wrote: > > I believe it was the first HDD of any sort to use a floppy disk type of > > interface. It was followed by the SA1000 interface, which in turn > > became the ubiquitous industry standard ST506 interface. Since it was > > first, it is not surprising that it had problems, > > many of which it inherited from the Shugart floppy interfaces > > it was trying to resemble so as to reduce design in times. > > Was it really done that way because it was supposed to look just like a > big floppy at the interface level? That is my understanding from the folks at Shugart who did it. >Is that actually documented somewhere? Possibly, how important is it to find it on paper? It was explicitly stated as an objective of the next generation, SA1000, "Command signals for the SA1000 use the same pin configuration as its floppy counterpart. Data signals are handled through a different data separator because of the higher transfer rates" ED 9/13/1979 > What would be needed to add a parallel address interface? <snip> Probably could make it look like an SMD interface with a microcontroller. Tom

13 years, 11 months

SA4000 [was: Disc drive READY output -- any standards?]

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

Jules asks: > What would be needed to add a parallel address interface? I believe that could be called the WD1003 :-) In terms of cabling economy parallel cylinder select has some big disadvantages. Not that step-in-step-out cylinder select is awful efficient after you get to having multiple drive systems either (thus ESDI which used similar cabling but much more efficiently). Isn't it wonderful the way the pendulum swings? First parallel cylinder select (e.g. SMD and other bus and tag type address interfaces), then step in/out cylinder select (e.g. SA4000/SA1000/ST-506) and serial cylinder select (e.g. ESDI), then parallel cylinder select (e.g. IDE/ATA/SCSI), then serial cylinder select (e.g. SATA). Tim.

13 years, 11 months

SA4000 [was: Disc drive READY output -- any standards?]

by thomas.gardner＠sbcglobal.net

> Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 17:21:34 +0000 (GMT) > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: Disc drive READY output -- any standards? > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <m1Pe9or-000J43C at p850ug1> > Content-Type: text/plain > > > > For pure bad deisgn, nothing beats the Shugart SA4000 hard disk. > > > > I have one of those. It has all the warts of an early design. > > Except it wasn't an early design. OK, it was an early-ish wincheaster, > but stepper motor controllers are much the same whatever you sue them > for. The problems were known about and could have been avoided. > > -tony I believe it was the first HDD of any sort to use a floppy disk type of interface. It was followed by the SA1000 interface, which in turn became the ubiquitous industry standard ST506 interface. Since it was first, it is not surprising that it had problems, many of which it inherited from the Shugart floppy interfaces it was trying to resemble so as to reduce design in times. Tom

13 years, 11 months

Long term publicly accessible backups [Was: Uncorrupted A/UX 3.1 Update]

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 09:53 AM 1/18/2011, Shoppa, Tim wrote: >Now posting it to a binary warez newsgroup, I don't see much harm in that. Worst case, somebody might complain that what you're posting is not illegal or a copyright violation and therefore you shouldn't do it. Thank you for starting my day with a good belly-laugh. - John

13 years, 11 months

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test-drb January 2011