On 06/22/2010 23:16, Rob Jarratt wrote:
> I believe I may need a type-5 or type-6 keyboard with a
> mini-DIN connector. I can't find much on eBay. Can anyone tell me where to
> find such a keyboard? I don't want to spend a lot because Sun is not my
> thing really, but it would be nice to get it working.
>
> Thanks
>
> Rob
>
I have a bunch of these from a job lot i bought if you want one and dont
mind scraping some grime off them!
I think i have a 5c and a 6 keyboard
does that sound the correct sort?
Roger
Don North <ak6dn at mindspring.com> wrote:
> Johnny Billquist wrote:
>> > "Walter F.J. Mueller" <W.F.J.Mueller at gsi.de> wrote:
>> >
>>> >> The reason why I picked a 11/70 and not a J11 as target is because my
>>> >> goal is a 11/74. I've implemented the IIST already and tested against
>>> >> the IIST Diagnostic I could find in XXDP (riiab0). A dual core will
>>> >> fit into a single xc3s1200e of the NEXYS2 board. The work needed is
>>> >> quite clear and doable (changes on cache, mmu, and cpu core for asrb).
>>> >> However, I've no plans to implement the CIS, so it will always be a
>>> >> subset of a 11/74. But for sure fun to do and run.
>> >
>> > You do know that the J11 is already designed for mP usage, except that
>> > DECs testing of that was even more secret than the 11/74?
>> >
>> > The 11/74 definitely don't need CIS though. I don't think any
>> > prototype 11/74 even had it. It was planned for the next generation of
>> > the machine, that never got built. Anyway, it was to be an option for
>> > the CPU as far as I know. Just as FPP.
>
> Here's a front panel from a 'real 11/74', the uniprocessor one with
> CIS: http://www.ak6dn.com/stuff/1174.jpg
Thanks for sharing that, Don. Now that I see it, I realize that I have
seen it before.
> Note the CIS uADDRS and other CIS status lights selectable on the rotary
> switch on the right.
>
> The marketing dinks appropriated the 11/74 moniker for the wanna-be
> 11/70mp program because '11/74' sounded better for a 4 way MP system.
Yeah, as usual, name confusion is fun. Interestingly enough, RSX
identifies the 11/70mp as an 11/74.
> After the 11/74 CIS COBOL benchmarks came in, the native PDP-11 CIS
> implementation on the 11/74 blew the 11/780 benchmarks away. DEC
> marketing did not like this; it made selling business customers the just
> released 11/780 more difficult. The decision was made to kill the 11/74
> CIS option the day we released it to manufacturing in favor of the new
> VAX system.
I wasn't aware that any prototypes ever were produced and came as far as
being functional. I thought it was just paper work that had bee done.
> Johnny is right, the 11/74 option was a multiboard set (just like the
> FPP option) that could be plugged into the new 11/74 backplane (which
> was an 11/70 backplane with all the CPU and FPP slots pushed down by
> four to make room for the CIS option in the first slots).
>
> I wish I had saved more documentation (print sets, microcode listings,
> etc) but to my knowledge none of this survives for the 11/74 CIS. Only
> my front plex panel which I took as a souvenir.
>
> I was one of the three engineers who wrote the microcode for the CIS
> option subsystem (total of 4K words of 96bit wide horizontal microcode).
Nice to hear. Too bad the machine never got to production. It would have
been a nice system...
Johnny
"RodSmallwood" <rodsmallwood at btconnect.com> wrote:
> How difficult would it be to extend one of these FGPA PDP-11's to be put on
> a quad DEC board and be a plug in replacement for say an 11/93 or 11/94 CPU.
> (M8981-AA OR 11/91-BA)?
You would need to implement the whole bus arbitration and protocol
logic. And hook that up to the cpu. But that should be it.
Not sure how difficult it would be. DEC had a pretty big chip that did
all of that from the J11.
Johnny
I have a "moving box" filled with Multiflow documentation at
my workplace.
According to wikipedia, they only sold 125? systems.
Intermediate Language Document Version 4.3
-- unbound, stamped Company Confidential all over
The UNIX Operation System Programmer's Reference Manual, Section 1
-- in Multiflow 3 ring binder
The UNIX Operation System Multiflow System Administrator's Guide,
Reference Manual, and Supplement
-- in Multiflow 3 ring binder
The UNIX Operating System Programmer's Supplement, Parts I and II
-- in Multiflow 3 ring binder
Multiflow Forgran User's Guide and Reference Manual
-- in Multiflow 3 ring binder
Multiflow Computer Miscellaneous Documents
-- in Multiflow 3 ring binder
TRACE/UNIX Programmer's Reference Manual Sections 2-7
-- in Multiflow 3 ring binder
Multiflow TRACE Assembler and Operation Set Refrence Manual
& Data Transfer Guide
& C Language Notes
-- in Multiflow 3 ring binder
The UNIX Operating System Multiflow System Administrator's Guide
Reference Manual, and Supplement
-- in Multiflow 3 ring binder
I really can't accept the task of preserving them myself. I've had
these at work (and I believe I posted them once before (if not on this
list, then on another)).
I don't know if any Multiflow Systems survive today, but it would be
a shame to see these recycled.
They are located in Cambridge MA near the Alewife redline T station stop.
If you have the means to pick these up, are are willing to pay to have
these shipped... please give these a home.... it would be great to see
these preserved on a site like bitsavers rather than lost for all time.
-- Curt
> From: "A. Christoff Baumann"
>
> If you figure out a solution, there's an entire hobby (amateur radio)
> that is dying that would love to hear your solutions.
The solution is oriented towards hands on training, doing, and actual
elmering (mentoring) as opposed to just telling someone how to do
something, i.e. get involved with helping/teaching instead of just telling!
I am constantly amazed that for the most part, the only people buying
the older Heathkit/Eico/etc. electronics are "old" people who are buying
more for nostagia as opposed to learning.
And this also applies to classic computers. At the last swapmeet, I had
an HP85A for sale with not one person showing any interest.
Most of us here have a lot on our plates, and that makes it easy to
rationalize we don't have time. BS. We find time to do what we want.
A bigger problem IMNSHO is not having any idea of where this training we
could offer leads. I'm not sure any of us are into wasting time per se.
And doing something without a clue where it will lead (especially with a
full plate of stuff to do) makes it easy to not spend the effort to
teach or get involved with others.
BTW, someone told me that Heathkit has started selling kits again; has
anyone heard this?
Marvin
David Gesswein <djg at pdp8online.com> wrote:
>> > I'm very much interested in both of those. Can I talk you into making
>> >them available?
>> >
> I have a copy of vista here
>
> http://www.pdp8online.com/pdp8cgi/os8_html?act=dir;fn=images/os8/dewar-edit…
>
> In a search I found this
> http://vandermark.ch/pdp8/local/Sources/read_dir.php?f=Other/new-22-vista-2…
>
> It appears to be the vista editor source. The actual vista source seems to
> be in the empty at the end if its complete. I haven't tried to build it. Has
> modules for a couple different terminals.
I have the sources for VISTA as well. However, it is written in PAGE8,
which is another assembler for the PDP-8. I also happen to have PAGE8,
so I should make all of that available, when I have time and access to
my PDP8 systems.
I also have the VISTA manual, but I think I might only have it in paper
form, so I guess I should try and scan that at some point as well...
And yes, I'll try to upload my EMACS-clone as well. Just give me time... :-)
Johnny
I have one of these that I would like to get going or at least
see how far i can get.
I don't see much out there except Al's site. Witch has limited info.
Does anyone know of? hardware and trouble shooting? manuals and
what type of? terminal interface they used.? I found this is a Horse
arena upside down.
Jerry
I have a bunch (about 13 pounds) of catalogs and datasheets for VME
products from various manufacturers, plus a directory or two. Any
interest in the pile for $5 plus shipping (media rate - cheap)?
Contact me off list.
--
Will
Don North <ak6dn at mindspring.com> wrote:
> On 6/22/2010 12:34 AM, E. Groenenberg wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Johnny is right, the 11/74 option was a multiboard set (just like the
>>> >> FPP option) that could be plugged into the new 11/74 backplane (which
>>> >> was an 11/70 backplane with all the CPU and FPP slots pushed down by
>>> >> four to make room for the CIS option in the first slots).
>>> >>
>> > How was this achived? By reducing the Massbus card space by 4 boards
>> > so 3 interface sections were available? Or by redesigning the processor
>> > in such a way that there were less boards needed?
>> >
>> > Ed
>> >
>> >
>
> Removed one of the MASSBUS controllers.
That makes sense. MASSBUS was on the decline anyway. And if you were
going with mP systems, you could hook up massbuses to several CPUs,
meaning you'd get a lot of them in the end anyway.
Or actually, this was probably when MASSBUS was still very much hip.
Well, mP still meant you could get lots of massbuses on the system, and
RSX-11M+ supported mixed massbus configurations anyway, so you could get
away with fewer massbuses.
The other option would have been to remove the 4 slot Unibus at the back
of the CPU, and just have the single SPC slot, and the out.
> The CPU board set was essentially the same, slot for slot. There were
> several boards that needed rev/ECO to provide hooks for the CIS option,
> but all in all these were minor updates and were backward compatible.
As far as I can tell, it's both changes for CIS, and also changes for mP
capabilities.
> IIRC the main change was to add additional microcode to the base 11/70
> microengine (from 256 to 512 words) by doubling the PROM bit density.
> This code did all the base instruction dispatch and operand fetch for
> the CIS unit.
Looked through the document you provided in another post. Interesting
stuff...
Johnny
I can send you one for the cost of shipping, contact me off-list.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
On Jun 22, 2010, at 6:16 PM, "Rob Jarratt"
<robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> I was given a Sun Ultra 5 the other day, not really a vintage
> machine, at
> least not yet, hence "slightly OT". I don't know anything about these
> machines but I expect there will be people on this list who do. The
> machine
> came without a keyboard or mouse and I think I need at least a
> keyboard to
> get it to boot. I believe I may need a type-5 or type-6 keyboard
> with a
> mini-DIN connector. I can't find much on eBay. Can anyone tell me
> where to
> find such a keyboard? I don't want to spend a lot because Sun is not
> my
> thing really, but it would be nice to get it working.
>
> Thanks
>
> Rob
