--- On Fri, 5/8/09, Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
> VisiCalc
> Easy Writer
> and didn't IBM sell a MICROS~1 port of Adventure? (Colossal
> Cave)
>
> What more could anybody want? (no, that WAS
> sarcasm)
I wish I still had the copy of Advent for the peecee. That's what I want. I could get big buckos for it on ePay.
--- On Fri, 5/8/09, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
> From: Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> I
> imagine that if IBM had
> acquired Microsoft, we'd all be running some flavor of Unix
> now.
and in public you're willing to confess openly that you ain't run a UNIX flava?
--- On Fri, 5/8/09, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
> If we had been left with IBM as the only proponent of the
> PC, it
> might well have been just a memory, like the 5100.
If the clone hadn't manages to capture so great a portion of the market (and keep in mind that people bought clones because they were peecee compatible), eventually the price would have dropped and likely many people would have bought one anyway, though granted not as fast as the clone prices did. Would something else have stepped in and rivaled the pc? Possibly, but I really don't think it would be the Amiga or Atari STs. The Amiga had that funky interlaced video thing, and Ataris were, well Ataris. This isn't to run down either, and you could have either for significantly less money then a real IBM. But both were by companies that made game machines. It was the air of professionalism (and again the huge amount of s/w available) that made their market so robust. You were getting a *real* computer, no simply a glorified toy (at least in many people's minds that's what they were).
The 5150 became the 5160 before long. Disappear from the market? Oh I really don't think so.
--- On Thu, 5/7/09, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
> Actually, it wasn't the IBM PC, XT, AT or PS/2 that
> established the
> market, but rather the proliferation of cheap far east
> clones. A
> Taiwanese "XT" couldn't be touched as far as bang for the
> buck.
Despite 10,000 s/w packages as of 1985-86? Up until that point, I don't remember seeing too many anything but IBM's on desks wherever I looked. Even the public library had a True Blue. Subsequent to that people started buying named clones, followed eventually by cheaper clones, but I think that was mainly in the 286-386 era.
>
>Subject: non-DEC-compat HW to read RX02's?
> From: shoppa at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa)
> Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 08:32:25 -0400
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
>
>What non-DEC-compatible stuff out there can read RX02's?
DSD880 and a few of the floppy contoller replacement boards.
>Obviously the original RX02 drive can read RX02's... as can all the
>DSD, Sigma, etc. Q-bus, Unibus, Omnibus compatible controllers.
>
>But what can read RX02's using a generic SA801-type drive and a PC-clone?
Sigma, and DSD. Those used generic drives. The problem is not using
a generic drive its the encoding by the controller the drive connects
to and generic PC controller (ala 765) is MFM and the DD mode of
RX02 is M2FM a different thing. Add to that the RX02 uses mixed
SD and DD on the same track means none of the available (then or now)
integrated FDCs can produce or read that format.
>Several years back I built a doohickey that plugged into a PC's
>parallel port and allowed me to step floppy drives and read
>bit-timing-information, a track at a time, into a RAM buffer, which
>I then dumped into the parallel port and wrote some software
>to analyze arbitrary disk formats. I wired the index/sector hole
>detector to the MSB RAM line and used it with great success to
>analyze and read several 8" and 5.25" hard-sector
>floppy formats and eventually pumped a few thousand disks through
>the scheme. Not bad for something thrown together on a solderless
>breadboard using random TTL chips I had lying around the basement :-).
That is what you would need.
>Obviously similar devices have been discussed here in the past
>decade or two. Is there anything available off the shelf that
>can plug into a USB port and let me do similar? Right now the
>thought of traveling with a 8" HH floppy drive and a laptop
>has a certain appeal as opposed to hauling around a BA23 and
>a DSD440 :-).
No, not without custom programming.
Allison
A ridiculous price for a standard PDP-11/24 frontpanel.
Buy it now for just only GBP 49,998.99 and there isn't even a picture.
item 180353721346
--
Certified : VCP 3.x, SCSI 3.x SCSA S10, SCNA S10
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 5:35 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Xerox 820 system disks in Teledisk format?
On 7 May 2009 at 13:47, Jules Richardson wrote:
> No, I suppose not. I wonder if they ever toyed with the idea of
> rolling their own - perhaps a board containing a little 8-bitter which
> was responsible for a few other useful functions (RS232, parallel
> maybe) too. I suppose RAM/ROM costs around then made it unworkable
> even if they had the skills readily on-tap (not to mention that it
> probably wouldn't fit in with the idea of what the PC was supposed to
> be!)
Commodore 1541? Actually, they'd done that one already. Think
about the IBM 5100/5110 with the 5114 diskette drive unit. I don't
think they even wanted to think about putting something like that on
a "personal computer"...
--Chuck
-----REPLY-----
Hi Chuck, Jules! At least in theory, the N8VEM SBC mated with its Disk IO
board provides this capability right now. The N8VEM SBC has 512K SRAM
for immediate storage, the Disk IO supports IDE and NEC765 FDC
capability. Attach a IDE to CF adapter (several varieties of those have
been demonstrated to work or just use an old IDE hard drive) for storage
and use the SBC serial port for operator IO.
Connect the SBC to the Disk IO board via a 64 pin DIN 41612 IDC
connector and short 64 conductor ribbon cable for a nice and compact two
board (stacked Eurocard) solution powered by 5VDC only. The SBC boots
CP/M 2.2 from its ROM drive which could be easily augmented with CP/M
applications to manage the floppy disk transfer functionality. I
designed the system with something like this in mind and there are at
least the beginnings of the software necessary to accomplish it. The
Disk IO board even includes special control and data signal access for
raw disk reads and 8" floppy drive manipulation if someone were *REALLY*
ambitious.
I spent quite a bit of time working on this design along those lines but
the Disk IO was such a beast I rather burned out on it. Since the PCBs
and parts are all available now if someone wanted to pick this up the
hardware is essentially completed, some of the software, and you're most
of the way there. It would "only" take someone with the desire to write
the software to make this happen -- basically comfortable old CP/M and
Z80 assembler. I've moved on to other things in the N8VEM project.
Thanks and have a nice day!
Andrew Lynch
Hey folks! Syd from the Personal Computer Museum here.
Just wanted everyone to know that we are having our huge 3rd Annual
"Spring Cleanup" at the Personal Computer Museum (Brantford, Ontario,
Canada) on May 23rd from 10am to 4pm.
This year we are featuring STAR WARS so if you are a Star Wars fan, come
see the villains from the 501st dressed in full costume as you browse
through the museum and our displays.
In addition to taking all your old electronics, software, and video games
for safe and proper reuse or/recycling we are also selling some of our
extra machines and software programs. VINTAGE COMPUTERS in BOXED (and
unboxed) condition will be available. Lots of old BYTE magazines (as well
as other publications) and TONS of old boxed DOS software will be
available.
If you are anywhere CLOSE to Brantford (around an hour's drive from
Toronto) you should make an effort to come by and see what we are doing.
More information on the event (for example there is a traditional
community garage sale going on around us for those people who have
friends/partners not as interested in old computers) can be found at our
website, http://www.pcmuseum.ca.
THANKS
----------------------------
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I was asked to forward details of this on...
The National Museum of Computing in Bletchley, UK, have a series of OpenVMS
seminars coming up; some folk here may well be interested in attending.
Details at:
http://tnmoc.org/36/section.aspx/78
cheers,
Jules
