test-drb February 2008

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

236 participants
373 discussions

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Back in 1998 (actually more like from summer 1997 until summer 1998, i.e., the 1997-98 school year), before I started Quasijarus Project, I was searching the World high and low for a copy of the 4.3BSD tape set. That was before PUPS got its momentum with getting the $100 "Ancient UNIX" license deal from SCO, and more importantly, getting people interested in preserving and working with Original UNIX, and at that time the entire world was basically in a conspiracy of anathema against original Bell/Berkeley UNIX, everyone just wanted it to stay buried in its grave and not come up. Getting a copy of the 4.3BSD tape set seemed next to impossible. www.berkeley.edu was shockingly silent about the fact that Berkeley UNIX aka BSD, UC Berkeley's greatest accomplishment in all of its history, ever existed, much less saying how to order a tape. Finally I found a phone number and a couple of E-mail addresses for some office at UCB that was apparently kept for sending out tapes after CSRG itself was gutted. The office was basically a voice mailbox and a couple of E-mail addresses, with the two people who were actually supposed to get those E-mail and voice messages being away somewhere in San Francisco and taking a few weeks to answer inquiries. Finally they got back to me and told me to send a check for $2400 for 4.4BSD and $1000 for 4.3BSD. Ouch! And of course some murky business about licenses. At that time, however, I attended Case Western Reserve University (CWRU) and had a semi-staff relationship with their computer science department. I realised that the university must have had a UNIX source license from back in The Days, and most probably had the actual 4.3BSD tapes at some point as well, especially given that the old-timers told me that they were indeed running 11/780s before. But again the conspiracy of anathema was working: everyone had completely forgotten about it, and no one on the entire campus even knew that the university had a UNIX source license (and old-timers confirmed that indeed there was one). When spring 1998 came around, PUPS was making its debut with the $100 license deal from SCO. I didn't care so much about license stuff, but it meant a resurgence of interest in Original UNIX and a community of people involved with it, something that was completely lacking only a few months prior. I wanted access to the PUPS archive, and I wanted to use the university's license rather than fork over $100 for a personal one. The only issue was *finding* that license. Then I got a bright idea: since the license agreement was between CWRU and AT&T, there must have been copies of it on both sides. If CWRU had chosen to forget about the license they once paid big money for, how about if I dig up a copy of the license agreement from AT&T side? So I asked SCO's Dion Johnson about it, and lo and behold, a few days later a copy of CWRU's original UNIX license agreement shows up in my box in the computer science department mail room! Warren Toomey got another copy and soon I got an overseas fax from him with passwords for his PUPS Archive! Whoo-hoo! But I still needed 4.3BSD. It wasn't in Warren's archive since they were still PDP-only at that time, and me holding a copy of my school's AT&T UNIX license agreement didn't help convince anyone I knew who might have had 4.3BSD tapes to share them with me. In late 1997 I got myself an office at CWRU, it was the CES department's computer junkyard room. I was quite happy, a room full of classic computers was the best office I could get. It was actually two rooms, 411 and 412. Only 411 was accessible from the hallway, the entrance to 412 was inside 411. Both rooms were filled with classic computer gear, but 411 was a little less full and actually had some room for a desk and was usable as an office. 412, on the other hand, was *completely* filled with classic computer gear (mostly Sun 3) and it was difficult for a person to make it through to the end of the room. At the very end of room 412 (the end opposite the entrance door from 411) there was something that looked like a plastic curtain or plastic window blinds. The architecture of that building was really intriguing, the kind one finds only on good old university campuses, and I couldn't really tell if there was supposed to be a window there or not. I just never gave it much thought, and it was too difficult to climb over all that Sun 3 gear in the way to see exactly what it was. On a shelf in room 411 there were some magtape reels, and I thought that if they ever had 4.3BSD tapes, they ought to be there. But I looked through all the tapes I could see and 4.3BSD wasn't there. Bummer. Then one day in summer 1998 I came to work in the morning, went up the stairs to my beloved Computer Engineering and Science department 4th floor, went to the end of the hallway to my office, and got in. I turned on the lights and per my usual habit, peeked all over the room to make sure all the fun classic computers were still there. And lo and behold, at the very end of room 412, where I previously saw those plastic curtains or window blinds or whatever, I now saw two racks full of magtapes! It turned out that the plastic "curtains" were actually vertically sliding doors (kinda like garage doors) of two huge magtape cabinets! Another staff member must have had a need to get some old magtape and didn't close the cabinet after he was done. With trembling hands, I raced there and started looking through all the tapes. And sure enough, in a few minutes I found all 3 tapes of the 4.3BSD 1600 BPI distribution. I spent pretty much the whole year prior to that moment searching the World high and low for 4.3BSD tapes when they were sitting the whole time in my own office! Now that's a "Duh!" moment. MS

15 years, 3 months

Wanted: VAX Ultrix 3.0C

by hoelscher-kirchbrak＠freenet.de

Hi, I haven't got ULTRIX/VAX V3.0C, but: V2.0 V3.1 (disk image only) V4.2 V4.4 V4.5 I'd like to have the missing versions, too. More ULTRIX-Manuals would be VERY interesting as well. (I scanned the ones at bitsavers.com) What type of VAX do you want to run ULTRIX on? Regards, Ulli

15 years, 8 months

offer - OS/2 for the PDP-11

by dgahling＠hotmail.com

Yes, you read that correctly. I have in my possession a TK-50 tape for the PDP-11 system which contains none other than OS/2 operating system. Many people have claimed this never existed. But I have the tape! I had done a directory dump of it and can supply it. One other person who's checked the directory listing has said it is authentic. I'm not sure what to do with it, and I believe IBM made OS/2 open source, so technically it should be "free" of it's chains maybe someone can turn it into something useful, or just run it and have the most unique PDP on the planet, I don't know... whatever :) anyhow, it's a really weird bit of computing history, and I'd hate for it to be lost. it should be in a museum :) Dan. _________________________________________________________________ Use fowl language with Chicktionary. Click here to start playing! http://puzzles.sympatico.msn.ca/chicktionary/index.html?icid=htmlsig

15 years, 11 months

8-bit ISA ethernet cards

by pat＠computer-refuge.org

A few weeks ago, some people in here were talking about putting network cards in IBM PCs or XTs or something... As it happens, I ran across a box of 3com 3c503 network cards (AUI and 10BaseT ports, 8 bit ISA card). If anyone wants one, lemme know, I'm asking $5+shipping, and I'll have the box with me at Dayton if you want to harass me about them, then. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCAC --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org

16 years

Wanted: PDP-11 MUMPS Software & Manuals

by hoelscher-kirchbrak＠freenet.de

Hi, I'm looking for Software & Manuals for any of the MUMPS implementations for the PDP-11, e.g. MUMPS-11, DSM-11 or M/11+. Can anybody help? Regards, Ulli

16 years

Help with PDP-11 Unibus Map Hardware / Software under RT-11

by jhfinedp3k＠compsys.to

Hopefully, this request is clear enough to be understood. Both the software and the hardware portion of the questions are independently important, so please answer one aspect even if you can't help with the other. Over the past 30 years of using PDP-11 software (RT-11 over 95%) and hardware, I have never had occasion to use a Unibus system with more than 256 KB of memory (such as a PDP-11/34). I would appreciate help in understanding the Unibus Map hardware which (if I understand its purpose correctly) is to convert 18 bit addresses given to a Unibus controller into 22 bit addresses for real physical memory for systems like a PDP-11/84 and perform DMA from / to the hard drive. Also helpful would be an explanation of the related software used under RT-11 along with exactly where the Unibus Map hardware is located on a real DEC system (on the CPU board I presume) since the identical CPU board is used for both the Qbus and the Unibus with both the PDP-11/84 and the PDP-11/94. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- DO NOT READ THE FOLLOWING if you don't use RT-11!!!!!!! By way of context, I have successfully modified the HD0: device driver originally written by John Wilson which obviously executes ONLY under E11. Last week, John mentioned in a private e-mail that it is possible to direct the HD0: "controller" (all references to hardware in quotes refers to E11 software) to ignore the "Unibus Map hardware". Since I execute under E11 using Qbus emulation in order to stay totally compatible with the real DEC PDP-11/23, PDP-11/73 and PDP-11/83 systems (all Qbus and all with 4 MB of physical memory) which I have available for comparison testing, user buffers in physical memory above 256 KB are often a situation which can't be avoided. Consequently, it had always been a high priority to have a 22 bit device driver for HD0: under E11 BECAUSE HD0: is TWICE as fast as MSCP (DUX.SYS device driver). In addition, I have also been able to write code that avoids the overhead of using the HD0: device driver which makes HD0: FOUR times as fast as MSCP and also allows for direct access of 2 TB of disk space via a 32 bit block number. Since I have an immediate application for a data base of 32 GB (I have a disk drive of 160 GB, so 32 GB is only 20% of its capacity - although under RT-11 15 years ago in 1992, 32 GB would have been only a dream), the code which I have written will actually be used quite soon. However, I would very much like the HD0: device driver to be able to execute under both "Qbus" and "Unibus" hardware. And while I can test the code for a "Qbus" and for a "Unibus" without a "Unibus Map", I am not clear about what is required for a "Unibus" with a "Unibus Map" such as a PDP-11/84 running under RT-11. Megan are you still watching the list? Allison, if you can't answer, can anyone but Megan help? Is anyone else familiar enough with the "Unibus Map" that you can suggest what RT-11 actually needs to do with the "Unibus Map"? A solution is to check the "hardware" configuration and refuse to allow the HD0: device driver to LOAD or .Fetch if the modified version is not executing under "Qbus hardware". By the way, if anyone who is thinking of a controller for the Qbus which is able to use SATA drives, I would be happy to modify an RT-11 device driver to an HD0: type device that is able to handle drives up to 2 TB in the same manner that DU(X).SYS can handle drives up to 8 GB. Anyone interested?? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year.

16 years, 2 months

Making an RT-11 boot disk

by dbetz＠xlisper.com

I'm trying to use simh to create an RT-11 bootable RX50 disk and am following some instructions posted by Megan Gentry a while ago. I've created the disk image but am having trouble making it bootable. The copy/boot command claims it can't find the RT-11 image but it is clearly on the floppy (du0). Any idea what's going wrong? .dir du0: 10-Apr-99 RT11XM.SYS 106P 20-Dec-85 DU .SYS 8P 20-Dec-85 TT .SYS 2P 20-Dec-85 PIP .SAV 30P 20-Dec-85 DUP .SAV 47P 20-Dec-85 DIR .SAV 19P 20-Dec-85 RESORC.SAV 25P 20-Dec-85 EDIT .SAV 19P 20-Dec-85 MACRO .SAV 61P 20-Dec-85 CREF .SAV 6P 20-Dec-85 LINK .SAV 49P 20-Dec-85 LIBR .SAV 24P 20-Dec-85 FILEX .SAV 22P 20-Dec-85 HELP .SAV 132P 20-Dec-85 BATCH .SAV 26P 20-Dec-85 FORMAT.SAV 24P 20-Dec-85 SETUP .SAV 41P 20-Dec-85 SPEED .SAV 4P 20-Dec-85 DATIME.SAV 4P 20-Dec-85 LET .SAV 5P 20-Dec-85 SPLIT .SAV 3P 20-Dec-85 CONFIG.SAV 7P 20-Dec-85 SWAP .SYS 27P 20-Dec-85 23 Files, 691 Blocks 95 Free blocks .copy/boot du0:rt11xm.sys du0: ?DUP-F-File not found DU0:RT11XM.SYS

16 years, 2 months

TU-58s (was Re: Some progress with my PDP-11/73 system)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: TU-58s (was Re: Some progress with my PDP-11/73 system) > From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> > Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 21:54:24 -0500 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On 4/11/07, Jerome H. Fine <jhfinedp3k at compsys.to> wrote: >> But I once had a project that >> used a real DEC TU-58. Not the fastest "random" >> access device!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >They work better as "sequential" access devices - being long and thin >and travelling in one dimension, go figure. We used to optimize file >order on our console TU58s to speed up the boot times on our 11/725s >and 11/730s. Since the file order doesn't change, one just builds a >TU58 with EXCHANGE with each file following the other. The console's >8-bit-micro must cache the directory block, since the tape didn't whip >back to the start between each file. > >Using unaltered console tapes from DEC resulted in, IIRC, about 15 >minutes from turning the key to booting the hard disk. Replacing that >tape with one of our own devising shortened that pre-boot time to well >under 3 minutes. > >I'd hate to rely on a TU-58 and no other block-addressable media on a >PDP-11, though. I survived a PDP-8 with a TD8E and TU56, but it was >somewhat tedious (cool to watch, though). TU-58s weren't as cool, >IMHO. So happens one of my "small" pdp-11s uses a Tu58. the system is a BA-11V with an 11/23 256k of ram, DLV11J and MRV11 rom(boot). Takes 10 minutes to boot, setup VM: then copy key files to and reboot. After that it's pretty decent even if I have to access a file on tape. Everytime I runs it with a bunch of kids of the current PC generations they go gaga and comment on how slow then I explain the amount of ram and storage then they are amazed it can be a functional machine with so little. They can't imagine a useful machine with 32kW of ram and 256kb of storage. On the flip side I've used that same Tu58 to bring up iron that had no removable storage. It's slow but very dependable. Allison

16 years, 2 months

lead-free solder (was: Setting up a VAXstation)

by halarewich＠gmail.com

heres a link to some lead solder http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1290635&cp=2568443.2… Chris On 10/2/07, Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com> wrote: > > At 11:37 PM +0100 10/1/07, Tony Duell wrote: > >For the first part, I'd offer to do it for you, but it would be illegal > >to do so. Owing to our totally daft laws, (a) I'd have to use lead-free > >solder, which I don't have, don't trust, and am not set up to use and > > How hard is it to work with lead-free solder, and is it becoming a > problem to get traditional solder in the US? I've been meaning to > pick up a few rolls. As I'm still using a roll purchased in the 80's > from Rat Shack for building a couple things for my VIC-20, I haven't > been going through it that fast. Though I seem to be using it more > often now than. > > >(b) > >it has been said that if an enthusiast (specifically a model engineer, > >but it would apply here too) does jobs for others, then his workshop > >becomes a workplace and is covered by all the daft health-and-safety > >rules that I have no desire to get involved with, and which quite > >honestly, would stop me from getting on with things. > > Does it count as a job if you don't take payment? > > Zane > > > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | >

16 years, 3 months

Where to find memory ICs?

by trixter＠oldskool.org

Have a working Intel Above Board Plus 8 with 2MB RAM and would like to populate it to the full 8MB. It will take 120ns or faster 1mbit chips -- but where can one find that kind of thing nowadays? Are those still commercially available or am I going to have to scavenge them from somewhere else? Manual lists acceptable part numbers like: Fujitsu MB81C1000P-xx Hitachi HM511000P-xxS Mitsubishi M5M41000AP-xx Motorola M5M511000P-xx NEC UPD421000C-xx NMB AAA1M100-xx OKI M511000RS-xx Samsung KM41C1000P-xx TI TMS4C1024-xx Toshiba TC511000P-xx ...etc but google searches haven't been very fruitful (that is, the pages returned when I search for IC part numbers don't return vendors with plain pricing/availability info). I just want a few tubes of these to populate the board, I'm not looking for a box of 'em :-) Any pointers? -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/

16 years, 4 months

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test-drb February 2008