test-drb December 2008

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

209 participants
286 discussions

by wb6blv＠inreach.com

If any list members are looking for Wang terminals, I have several of the 2236 models that I used on an 2200MVP system for many years. In addition, I believe I still have many 5 Mb removable platters for the Winchester drives used on the 2200. Please direct any interest off list to WB6BLV at inreach.com

17 years

8008 chips

by grant＠stockly.com

At 04:55 AM 12/16/2008, you wrote: > > The 1101 256 byte static ram. > >No, not this either. > >Hard to find, these 1101s, but not impossible. Bought 200 of those from unicorn for $2 each. If I were mean and fought with Rob I could probably get lower prices...but he treats me good. ; ) They charge the same amount for the Altair 1MCS memory chips, 2101 or 2102s, I forget...

17 years

8008 chips

by wbblair3＠yahoo.com

> A friend of mine just came across a couple of Intel 8008 > chips. Apparently, some ebay sellers think they're solid gold. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260099837541 > > As far as we can tell, that's what Mel has. > > Anyway, I told him I'd try to find out what it's > actually worth and whether anyone here is willing > to pay whatever's reasonable. > > He also has some later 8008s without the gold cap. They are relatively rare, but they aren't even close to being _THAT_ rare. I'm talking about his asking price. I bought one three years ago from a fellow collector of CPU chips for _$20_ that had some markings worn off and was scratched. I opened it up to photograph the die (a hobby of mine): http://diephotos.blogspot.com/ I've haven't even seen rare versions of white ceramic 4004 ICs in perfect condition go for anything close to his asking price. I've seen a complete, mint condition MCS-4 (4004) chip _SET_ go for something close to $1K.

17 years

AW: cctalk Digest, Vol 64, Issue 52; any idea what this schematic is?

by gerhard.kreuzer＠liftoff.at

Hi, Ist definitely a RS422 interface, and ist the 4-wire version. You have two lines for sending data (Tx+, Tx-) and two lines for receiving serial data (Rx+, Rx-). Its a +-5V differentially signalling technique to get high speed on long lines and archive better noise immunity. With best regards Gerhard -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] Im Auftrag von cctalk-request at classiccmp.org Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. Dezember 2008 19:01 An: cctalk at classiccmp.org Betreff: cctalk Digest, Vol 64, Issue 52 Send cctalk mailing list submissions to cctalk at classiccmp.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cctalk-request at classiccmp.org You can reach the person managing the list at cctalk-owner at classiccmp.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: PDP-8 on FPGA project & where is Hans Pufal? (Pete Turnbull) 2. Re: PDP-8 on FPGA project & where is Hans Pufal? (Tony Duell) 3. Re: Timekeeping (was Re: Sherwood Micro CPU/100) (Tony Duell) 4. Re: Timekeeping (was Re: Sherwood Micro CPU/100) (Tony Duell) 5. New USB Mod Ms available from Unicomp? was Re: USB Model M (Paxton Hoag) 6. CBM 8000 VideoCD? (Ethan Dicks) 7. list of nordisk data books and floppy disks (Bert Thomas) 8. Re: Engelbart's mouse / 40th anniversary (Andrew Burton) 9. oregon software tape (Al Kossow) 10. Re: 8008 chips (Andrew Burton) 11. any idea what this schematic is? (Ray Arachelian) 12. RE: oregon software tape (Ian King) 13. MS WinWord 6.0 32-bit (Liam Proven) 14. Re: PDP-8 on FPGA project (Philipp Hachtmann) 15. Re: any idea what this schematic is? (Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ) 16. RE: any idea what this schematic is? (dwight elvey) 17. Re: any idea what this schematic is? (Ethan Dicks) 18. Re: Rockwell PPS-4 info (was 8008 v. 4004...) (John Robertson) 19. Re: Rockwell PPS-4 info (was 8008 v. 4004...) (Chris Elmquist) 20. Re: USB Model M (G?ran Axelsson) 21. FDOS for Fluke 1720A (Jim Temple) 22. Re: any idea what this schematic is? (Ethan Dicks) 23. Re: Engelbart's mouse / 40th anniversary (Lyle Bickley) 24. Re: any idea what this schematic is? (Alexandre Souza) 25. Re: any idea what this schematic is? (r.stricklin) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:55:58 +0000 From: Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com> Subject: Re: PDP-8 on FPGA project & where is Hans Pufal? To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <494D31AE.8010306 at dunnington.plus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 19/12/2008 15:53, der Mouse wrote: >> Your code above does not result in latches. It results in D type >> flipflops! > > What's the difference? As I've learned to use the words, D-flops > _are_ latches. Have I mislearnt? They're not quite the same thing, though a D-type flip-flop is a kind of latch. There are other types of flip-flops, such as T, RS, and JK types, usually edge-triggered. In a D-type, the active clock edge causes the output to change to match the input, and having changed, it stays that way, even if the input changes while the clock is still at the same level. The transparent latches that are commonly just referred to as "latches" (eg in data books, where you'll find some devices referred to as latches and others as flip-flops to distinguish them) are level-sensitive, and the output tracks the input (including changes) while the clock is at its active level. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:10:04 +0000 (GMT) From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Re: PDP-8 on FPGA project & where is Hans Pufal? To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Message-ID: <m1LE6H9-000IxyC at p850ug1> Content-Type: text/plain > > Your code above does not result in latches. It results in D type > > flipflops! > > What's the difference? As I've learned to use the words, D-flops > _are_ latches. Have I mislearnt? As I understand the terms, a D-type flip-flop is edge-triggered, a latch (or more exactly a transparent latch) is level-operated. What I eman is that for a D-type flip-flop, the output (Q) is set equal to the input (D) a short time after the rising edge (say), of the clock signal. At all othter times Q does not change state, no matter what D does. So if clock is held high all the time, or held low all the time, Q will never change. But with a transparent latch, then if the clock (sometimes called the enable input) is in one sate (say high). then the output (Q) tracks the input (D). When the clock input goes low, then Q is held in whatever state it was in as the clock input went low. A simple example of the differnce. If you take a D-type flip-flop and connect the output to a NOT gate and the output of that back to the D input, then you get a divide-by-2-circuit. Feed in a regular clock at one frequency and the Q output will toggle at half that frequency. But if you do the same thing with a transparent latch, you get something that oscillates at a frequency determined by the propagation delays when the clock is high. In other words the output is somewhat unpredicatable, it's certainly not a square wave at half the frequency of the clock signal. -tony ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:12:55 +0000 (GMT) From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Re: Timekeeping (was Re: Sherwood Micro CPU/100) To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Message-ID: <m1LE6Jt-000J12C at p850ug1> Content-Type: text/plain > Hi > You should also consider building a free pendulum clock reference. If I ever get a supply of circular tuits, then that's something I have long considered making... Even a single-pendulum (non-free) synchronome would be a fun thing to build > I've considered adding one to my grandfather clock. > These were used as references until the quartz oven references > replaced them. I am told that a free paenddulum in a vacuum chamber (to remove the errors due to air resistance, often called 'barometric errors', since the air resistance depends on the barometric pressure) actually has a better long-term stability than most quartz crystals. -tony ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:16:07 +0000 (GMT) From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Re: Timekeeping (was Re: Sherwood Micro CPU/100) To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Message-ID: <m1LE6N0-000J1gC at p850ug1> Content-Type: text/plain > One can calculate the angles if you first draw a line for local noon > and use the following equation to calculate each hour line from that > noon line. > =20 > X = hour lines angle ( each hour is 15 degrees ) Y = 90 - Latitude > angle Called the 'Colatitude' in some books. > Z = Angle on plate that is level to the ground from noon line > > arctan( tan(X) / cos ( Y ) ) = Z > > At least I think I did the trig right.=20 I beleive that is correct, However, it gets more complicated if you want to have a vertical-ish dial plate (say on a wall) that is neither truely vertical (it 'reclines') and which doesn't face any of the cardinal compass directions (it 'declines'). -tony ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 13:10:33 -0800 From: "Paxton Hoag" <innfoclassics at gmail.com> Subject: New USB Mod Ms available from Unicomp? was Re: USB Model M To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <ded268c40812201310p460cd9c8v494ffd0e2de9cd9b at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Right here: http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/cabdetmin.html > Thanks for the link as I need some cables too. I bought a dozen Model Ms >from a local community college garage sale. They were complaining about how much noise they made. At 50 cents apiece I bought all they had. I noticed that Unicomp, the site mentioned above sells new Buckling Key keyboards With USB built in for $69. http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/cus101usenon.html These are the people that bought the Keyboard parts business from IBM. It looks like they are trying to keep the model M and continue to supply the market. Paxton -- Paxton Hoag Astoria, OR USA ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:48:18 -0500 From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> Subject: CBM 8000 VideoCD? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <f4eb766f0812201448k53b19a99g664320f673290d44 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, all, I was bouncing around looking for SuperPET info and ran across this page (again)... <http://members.tripod.com/~petlibrary/vcdpage.htm> Unfortunately, the address on the page is no longer active, so it's not possible to request a copy of the video. Did anyone on the list ever get this? -ethan ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 00:12:18 +0100 From: Bert Thomas <bert at brothom.nl> Subject: list of nordisk data books and floppy disks To: General at lekkervaren.nl, "Discussion at lekkervaren.nl":On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <494D7BD2.3000108 at brothom.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed If you need access to one of these, contact me an urge me to make a deal. Keep pushing, as pushing raises priority with me. Books: NOTIS-BG User Guide NOTIS-RG New functions in the E-version NOTIS-DS User's guide Introduction to ND Office Systems The SPRINT User Guide Documentation Catalogue SINTRAN III Real Time Loader Dialogue-UNIQUE-II User Guide Operator Environment User Guide NOTIS-WP Brief Introduction User Environment Reference Manual NOTIS-WP Reference Manual COSMOS User Guide User Environment Reference Manual SINTRAN III Utilities Manual (3x) ND-110 Instruction Set The Database System SIBAS II ND User Manual SIBAS II Operator Manual NOTIS-DS Introduction (2x) Sintran III Real Time Guide NOTIS-DS Supervisor Guide (2x) ACCESS User Guide File Manager Introduction (2x, one in shrink-wrap) NOMIS Norwegian Medical Information System SINTRAN III COMMANDS Reference Manual SINTRAN III Monitor Calls (2x) Symbolic Debugger User Guide Examples for NOTIS-RG Version B SINTRAN-III Release Information K-version NOTIS-TF Macro Guide (new in shrink wrap) BACKUP User Guide (3x) SINTRAN III System Supervisor Operator Environment User Guide ND-110 COMPACT Operator Guide (contains several quick reference cards) SINTRAN III User Guide BRF-Linker User Manual NOTIS-TF User Guide User Environment Library Routines NOTIS-RG Reference Manual Test Program Description for ND-100/ND-110 ordner with following description: course program the supervisor's responsibility Handbook of Useful information examples of LOAD-MODE etc. telefix customer information miscellaneous materials MEDITEBS (in dutch) bunch of unknown listings a document with information on SCSI on ND ACCESS DBA manual NOTIS-TF text formatter reference manual partly dutch presentation with general user info SINTRAN III Timesharing/Batch guide some dutch documentation on MEDITEBS datasheets of several ND products, such as software packages, computers and accessoiries Floppies: (each floppy or set of floppies contains a few pages of information) SINTRAN III K GENERATION 312 CONF.D VSX, 2 disks (2 sets) PATCH-SIN-K-5400 (2 sets) SINTRAN III Configuration Program SUBSYSTEM PACKAGE 32 BITS FLOATING FORMAT SINTRAN III VSE/VSX Utility Programs ACCOUNTING System for SINTRAN III BACKUP-SYSTEM X-MESSAGE TELEFIX FILES FOR USER SITES SUBSYSTEM PACKAGE II VTM terminal tables USER ENVIRONMENT (3 disks) TEST PROGRAMS FOR ND-100/110 TEST PROGRAMS FOR ND-100/110/120 (2 disks) JEC job execution control ND-10634A MEMORY TO FLOPPY NOTIS-WP FOR ND-100 (4 disks) SIBAS-II for ND-100 (2 disks with pretty much the same label) ACCESS FOR ND-100 (dito) NOTIS-RG for ND-100 norwegian NOTIS-DS for ND-100 (3 disks) NOTIS-DS for ND-100 48-bit floating point (3 disks with pretty much the same label) NOTIS-BG-for ND-100 norwegian version 32 bits fl NOTIS-BG-for ND-100 32 bits fl NOTIS-BG-for ND-100 (business grafics) 32 bits fl PR for ND-100 (Norwegian version) BRF-Linker for ND-100 SINTRAN III MONITOR CALL Pack. SPRINT Spooling System (3 disks) MEDITEBS specials Mass Storage Utilities OPERATOR ENVIRONMENT (4 disks) Disk Restore (3 disks) TESTPROGRAMS FOR ND-100/110/120 (2 disks, both labeled PART 1 OF 2) UNIQUE-II SIBAS for ND-100 UNIQUE TEXT SYSTEM UNIQUE-II SIBAS ND-100 (hand-written label) SOFTWARE KEY DISCETTE ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:22:17 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Burton <aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: Engelbart's mouse / 40th anniversary To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <567206.77758.qm at web23406.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Thanks for the photo's. That must have been an interesting event. Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk --- On Sun, 14/12/08, Marcin Wichary <mwichary at gmail.com> wrote: From: Marcin Wichary <mwichary at gmail.com> Subject: Re: Engelbart's mouse / 40th anniversary To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Date: Sunday, 14 December, 2008, 9:24 PM Here are my photos from the event, for those interested: http://flickriver.com/photos/mwichary/sets/72157610918709769/ (48 photos in total. Scroll down to see more.) ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:15:00 -0800 From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> Subject: oregon software tape To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org Message-ID: <494D8A84.8080002 at bitsavers.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed did anyone on the list buy this tape? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120348714966 I got the earlier version, and it is a source tape. I'm trying to find out if the other one was as well. fscking eBay now hides the buyer's ID. ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 02:17:52 +0000 (GMT) From: Andrew Burton <aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: 8008 chips To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <346678.75570.qm at web23407.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Awesome pictures. It's seriously impressive how these chips must be made and designed. Regards, Andrew B aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk --- On Tue, 16/12/08, William Blair <wbblair3 at yahoo.com> wrote: They are relatively rare, but they aren't even close to being _THAT_ rare. I'm talking about his asking price. I bought one three years ago from a fellow collector of CPU chips for _$20_ that had some markings worn off and was scratched. I opened it up to photograph the die (a hobby of mine): http://diephotos.blogspot.com/ I've haven't even seen rare versions of white ceramic 4004 ICs in perfect condition go for anything close to his asking price. I've seen a complete, mint condition MCS-4 (4004) chip _SET_ go for something close to $1K. ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 22:01:22 -0500 From: Ray Arachelian <ray at arachelian.com> Subject: any idea what this schematic is? To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <494DB182.1050106 at arachelian.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 http://flickr.com/photos/spaceageboy/3117272956/sizes/o/ Would this be the interface between the Lisa and the Mac as related here: http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Shut_Up.txt&sortOrd er=Sort%20by%20Date&detail=medium&search=shut%20up > Unfortunately, there was one small snag. We were using the Lisa as the > development machine for writing the software for Macintosh, and we > hadn't yet reached the point where the Macintosh could run > stand-alone. The Macintosh needed to be hooked up to a Lisa, in order > to download software from it. But the Lisa group was writing all of > its own applications for Lisa and didn't want Microsoft to see a Lisa. > They made us promise that we wouldn't let Microsoft see the Lisa. > > We finally came up with a solution where we'd use a twenty-five foot > cable and keep the Lisa in a different room that the Microsoft guys > weren't allowed to enter. I would start up the programs on the Lisa in > the other room, and Bud Tribble would operate the Macintosh. I would > usually run into the main room to see their reaction. ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:24:43 -0800 From: Ian King <IanK at vulcan.com> Subject: RE: oregon software tape To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <FF6AB92D97A23A409701CDBF66F03FCD2A56ED9D at 505fuji> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" eBay's greed will destroy its empire. At least, it's always worked that way before.... ________________________________________ From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow [aek at bitsavers.org] Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 4:15 PM To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org Subject: oregon software tape did anyone on the list buy this tape? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120348714966 I got the earlier version, and it is a source tape. I'm trying to find out if the other one was as well. fscking eBay now hides the buyer's ID. ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 04:33:35 +0000 From: "Liam Proven" <lproven at gmail.com> Subject: MS WinWord 6.0 32-bit To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <575131af0812202033o14e4e811r2071a9316e71d48f at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 This is somewhat off-topic for here, but I don't know where else to ask. Way back in the early days of 32-bit Windows - I know, 5min ago by local standards - MS did a 32-bit version of Word and Excel for users of MS Office 4 on Windows NT 3. I used to have copies - on floppy - but I've lost them. No idea where to get replacements now, but I would really like to be able to use Word 6/32 again. It was a great WP, and by modern standards, tiny and very fast. Anyone still have a copy, or can suggest where to look or ask? -- Liam Proven Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 Cell: +44 7939-087884 Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat: liamproven at aol.com MSN/Messenger: lproven at hotmail.com Yahoo: liamproven at yahoo.co.uk Skype: liamproven ICQ: 73187508 ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 05:43:55 +0100 From: Philipp Hachtmann <hachti at hachti.de> Subject: Re: PDP-8 on FPGA project To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <494DC98B.2070108 at hachti.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi, >>> You can emulate that in std_logic with a single driver driving an "H" >>> (the "pull-up"), and everyone else drives either "0" or "Z". >> Yes. You can write that. But the synthesis tool - if it eats that - >> will generate >> many ORs... So avoid it. In the company I have worked a bit for, MANY >> constructs >> were simply forbidden. Thinks like Z, H, L in std_logic are suspicious >> :-) > > What you say is true for FPGA-internal signals but the output drivers > _can_ be switched to high-impedance. > The open-collector driver you were asking about originally can be > emulated by assigning "Z" directly to the IOB, switching it to high-z. > That will only work if the signal you use is routed directly to the IOB > => use only in top level entity to be sure. Yes, of course... IOBs can also be controlled "manually" using the output enable... The discussion was about the on-chip (!!) wiring of the OMNIBUS. the original OMNIBUS is an open collector thing. Ph :-) -- http://www.hachti.de ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 06:00:30 +0000 From: Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> Subject: Re: any idea what this schematic is? To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <494DDB7E.8070901 at gjcp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Ray Arachelian wrote: > http://flickr.com/photos/spaceageboy/3117272956/sizes/o/ It's a serial port. > Would this be the interface between the Lisa and the Mac as related here: > > http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Shut_Up.txt&sortOrd er=Sort%20by%20Date&detail=medium&search=shut%20up Hmm, the 1981 date suggests that it would a bit early for the Mac, and the layout of the PCB suggests an Apple II card... Gordon ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 22:42:28 -0800 From: dwight elvey <dkelvey at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: any idea what this schematic is? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <COL107-W372B6A51D022349E27EB43A3EE0 at phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Looks like RS422 interface. Dwight ---------------------------------------- > Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 22:01:22 -0500 > From: ray at arachelian.com > To: > Subject: any idea what this schematic is? > > http://flickr.com/photos/spaceageboy/3117272956/sizes/o/ > > Would this be the interface between the Lisa and the Mac as related here: > > http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Shut_Up.txt&sortOrd er=Sort%20by%20Date&detail=medium&search=shut%20up > >> Unfortunately, there was one small snag. We were using the Lisa as the >> development machine for writing the software for Macintosh, and we >> hadn't yet reached the point where the Macintosh could run >> stand-alone. The Macintosh needed to be hooked up to a Lisa, in order >> to download software from it. But the Lisa group was writing all of >> its own applications for Lisa and didn't want Microsoft to see a Lisa. >> They made us promise that we wouldn't let Microsoft see the Lisa. >> >> We finally came up with a solution where we'd use a twenty-five foot >> cable and keep the Lisa in a different room that the Microsoft guys >> weren't allowed to enter. I would start up the programs on the Lisa in >> the other room, and Bud Tribble would operate the Macintosh. I would >> usually run into the main room to see their reaction. > _________________________________________________________________ Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_speed_12 2008 ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 01:53:00 -0500 From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> Subject: Re: any idea what this schematic is? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <f4eb766f0812202253w17bc738ax5777071e99444f6b at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 1:42 AM, dwight elvey <dkelvey at hotmail.com> wrote: > > Hi > Looks like RS422 interface. > >> From: ray at arachelian.com >> >> http://flickr.com/photos/spaceageboy/3117272956/sizes/o/ >> >> Would this be the interface between the Lisa and the Mac as related here: >> >> <http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Shut_Up.txt&sortOr der=Sort%20by%20Date&detail=medium&search=shut%20up> I don't know what the bus in the Lisa looks like, but the interface end, the bit that Dwight identifies as an "RS422 interface" will hook right up to a Mac (but I'd have to check to see if their DE-9 pinout matches the DE-9 serial pinout of the 128K/512K Mac board). The "Lisa-Mac Interface Card" legend at the top certainly suggests that it's a schematic for the card from the story. The circuit appears to be what one would need to add a Mac-compatible serial port to _some_ machine. -ethan ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 09:43:24 -0800 From: John Robertson <jrr at flippers.com> Subject: Re: Rockwell PPS-4 info (was 8008 v. 4004...) To: General at invalid.domain, "Discussion at invalid.domain":On-Topic Posts Only <cctech at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <494D2EBC.6080609 at flippers.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Tim McNerney wrote: > Thanks for the lead on the Rockwell PPS-4. > Does anyone know where I can find architectural info on it, > and/or a die photo? It seems to be quite rare, and there > is almost no information about this chip [family] on the web. > > --Tim > > I have information in PDF format for the PPS-4 as used in Gottlieb and Recel Pinball games in the 70s. This covers the CPU, PIA and Keyboard chips. No architectural or die photos though. John :-#)# ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 12:54:18 -0600 From: Chris Elmquist <chrise at pobox.com> Subject: Re: Rockwell PPS-4 info (was 8008 v. 4004...) To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20081220185418.GH31448 at n0jcf.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Saturday (12/20/2008 at 08:48AM -0700), bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca wrote: > Chris Elmquist wrote: > >> Sorry, I got the year wrong. It was approx 1978. Less cool then but still >> not bad. Meatloaf was still bad. > > Umm you don't wait several years to eat Meatloaf. This one you would have wanted to. Imagine a pale grey colored ring about 10" dia with 3" dia hole in the middle. Wasn't a browned bit of meat on it and not enough ketchup in the world to make it go down. I think we learned then that a microwave is not for "browning". -- Chris Elmquist mailto:chrise at pobox.com ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 00:29:42 +0100 From: G?ran Axelsson <axelsson at acc.umu.se> Subject: Re: USB Model M To: General at acc.umu.se, "Discussion at acc.umu.se":On-Topic Posts Only <cctech at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <494D7FE6.1090008 at acc.umu.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Alexandre Souza wrote: >> I have a small uC device that I made that uses an FTDI USB->TTL >> converter. I wish USB was as straight-forward as you describe. I'm >> currently running into problems when transferring, very quickly, some >> data from the uC to the PC. The problems are related to overrunning >> the PC, where the PC isn't scheduling reads from the device fast >> enough to prevent drops. At least interrupt-based I/O can "demand" >> attention from the cpu at any time, where USB is at the mercy of >> being scheduled. > > I do that at 921kbps and had no issues. I have just finished a project with a PIC32 (MIPS32 core) working as a voice codec and talking to a linux PC over the USB buss. We got it up to 310 kBytes/s and not dropping a single package during hours of running. The communication on the PIC side is solved by constantly polling the USB bus to catch every event. We had problems with package dropped every ten seconds or so but we traced it back to a iproute cache flush that the kernel was doing. The USB bus is fast but with standard hardware it isn't hard to get the speed up. If you have problem with overruns, check if the PC is doing some periodic maintainancy or there are any other devices using the bus. Sorry for being a bit OT but just to add a bit of nostalgia to my post, my next hobby project will be a transputer link to USB interface. :-) /Gvran ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:15:15 -0500 From: "Jim Temple" <jetemp at insightbb.com> Subject: FDOS for Fluke 1720A To: <cctech at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <000301c96322$ba111790$2e3346b0$@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello, Saw your post and thought I would ask about the software and manuals for the Fluke 1722A controller. Do you still have them? Did you get them to Bitsavers? I'm interested in obtaining the above software. Sincerely, Jim Temple Louisville, KY. ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 02:00:47 -0500 From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> Subject: Re: any idea what this schematic is? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <f4eb766f0812202300p2d920340t1bc9334693265968 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 1:00 AM, Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote: > Ray Arachelian wrote: >> >> http://flickr.com/photos/spaceageboy/3117272956/sizes/o/ > > It's a serial port. Yep. >> Would this be the interface between the Lisa and the Mac as related here: >> <http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Shut_Up.txt&sortOr der=Sort%20by%20Date&detail=medium&search=shut%20up> > > Hmm, the 1981 date suggests that it would a bit early for the Mac... Not sure about the date, but that's only two-ish years before I seem to recall seeing an article about the Mac in "Byte" (1983). > ...and the layout of the PCB suggests an Apple II card... I completely disagree. The location of the power and ground pins on the schematic are where the Apple II has the address and data buses (plus +12V, on the wrong pin for the schematic). Additionally, the signal names /VMA, /VPA, and E are usual names for MC68000 buses (or perhaps the 6809), not the 6502. Plus, suggestively, but not conclusively, the card form factor doesn't look to me to be something for the Apple II (the card is too tall compared to the width the fingers are drawn at). I'm reasonably certain that A) it's not an Apple II card, and B) it's a card for some 50-pin-bus 68000 machine. It might as well be the Lisa as anything else, but that could be confirmed by cross referencing the listed bus pins with Lisa documentation. -ethan ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:16:11 -0800 From: Lyle Bickley <lbickley at bickleywest.com> Subject: Re: Engelbart's mouse / 40th anniversary To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org>, "Marcin Wichary" <mwichary at gmail.com> Message-ID: <200812202316.11632.lbickley at bickleywest.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Marcin, On Sunday 14 December 2008, Marcin Wichary wrote: > Here are my photos from the event, for those interested: > http://flickriver.com/photos/mwichary/sets/72157610918709769/ > > (48 photos in total. Scroll down to see more.) Great photos! Thanks for posting them... Cheers, Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 05:46:51 -0200 From: "Alexandre Souza" <alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br> Subject: Re: any idea what this schematic is? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <126b01c96340$757f8d00$46fea8c0 at DeskJara> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original >> http://flickr.com/photos/spaceageboy/3117272956/sizes/o/ I don't know which computer was used but: - It is a serial card - It has a 50-pin card edge connector (Lisa, maybe?) - It has RS-422 line drivers (so, it seems to be connected to a Macintosh) - It is NOT an apple // card, although having 50-pin card edge connector (I tried to reverse the pinout but got also no good result) - It is NOT an apple //e expansion card, that one you put on the 80-column slot. Even reversing the pinout So, it is probable it is used in a Lisa or a Macintosh XL (same machine?) Greetings from Brazil Alexandre Souza, PU1BZZ ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 00:51:44 -0800 From: "r.stricklin" <bear at typewritten.org> Subject: Re: any idea what this schematic is? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <62F98EEF-A14E-4CF5-9BCF-90EBF9A0DE93 at typewritten.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes On Dec 20, 2008, at 11:46 PM, Alexandre Souza wrote: >>> http://flickr.com/photos/spaceageboy/3117272956/sizes/o/ > > - It has a 50-pin card edge connector (Lisa, maybe?) I'm not sure what the mystery is. It fits a Lisa, and was used to download software to the early prototypes of the Macintosh. http://www.digibarn.com/collections/diagrams/early-mac-interfaces/index.html The earliest Lisa prototypes had 50-pin edge connectors for the I/O expansion cards. Sometime between 7/81 and 2/82 the Lisa got the pinch- fit, 56-pin edge connector for I/O expansion cards that it eventually shipped with. The collection of diagrams at DigiBarn (from which the flickr image was nicked) shows this evolution pretty clearly. ok bear End of cctalk Digest, Vol 64, Issue 52 **************************************

17 years

oregon software tape

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> The seller sounds like he would care too He doesn't.. I've emailed him several times with questions about specific items or if he has the other bits of things that he listed, and he has never had the courtesy to reply. He does let me know when I've waited too long in his option to pay him, however (I try to group lots together to save on shipping). I have identified the buyer of the other tape.

17 years

Apple Newton Messagepad 100 (Original) boxed complete and Messagepad 120

by michaelgreen42＠comcast.net

Very interesting vintage Newtons I've got a complete in box Messagepad 100 and a loose 120. Selling as a lot to the highest offer.

17 years

USB Model M

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:57:08 +0100 (CET) From: Christian Corti <cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> Subject: RE: USB Model M <snip> what should I say... don't trust them. ... IBM has never called the keyboard model M <snip> Christian ----------Reply: Really? Odd, mine all say IBM in big letters on the front and back, and "Model M" quite clearly on the back (M2 on the newer ones). I wonder; do you suppose someone else printed that on there? Maybe they're counterfeit... Can I trust what *you* say? ;-) Or did I misunderstand something? m

17 years

Radio Shack Science Fair manuals

by rbunz＠shaw.ca

Do you know where i can get a manual for the Science Fair electronic project kit # 28-247? I would like to give it to my son for Christmas so a manual would be great. Thanks Ron

17 years

any idea what this schematic is?

by ray＠arachelian.com

http://flickr.com/photos/spaceageboy/3117272956/sizes/o/ Would this be the interface between the Lisa and the Mac as related here: http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Shut_Up.txt&sortOr… > Unfortunately, there was one small snag. We were using the Lisa as the > development machine for writing the software for Macintosh, and we > hadn't yet reached the point where the Macintosh could run > stand-alone. The Macintosh needed to be hooked up to a Lisa, in order > to download software from it. But the Lisa group was writing all of > its own applications for Lisa and didn't want Microsoft to see a Lisa. > They made us promise that we wouldn't let Microsoft see the Lisa. > > We finally came up with a solution where we'd use a twenty-five foot > cable and keep the Lisa in a different room that the Microsoft guys > weren't allowed to enter. I would start up the programs on the Lisa in > the other room, and Bud Tribble would operate the Macintosh. I would > usually run into the main room to see their reaction.

17 years

Turbo Pascal evaluation

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

Recently Al Kossow purchased from me an evaluation copy of Turbo Pascal which was previously evaluated by science fiction author Jerry Pournelle for his columnin Byte Magazine. With Al's permission, I have reproduced the text of the letter that came with that copy. ---BEGIN QUOTE--- Borland International 4807 Scots Valley Drive Scots Valley, California 95066 (408) 438-5400 Telex: 172373 Mr. Jerry Pournelle, November 14, 1983 Science Fact and Fiction (address censored) Dear Sir, Thank you for your interest in our company and especially in our new product, Turbo Pascal. I have enclosed the following versions of Turbo Pascal: 1. CP/M 80 on 8-inch SSSD disk for Z80 based systems. 2. CP/M 85 on 8-inch SSSD disk and 5-1/4 inch IBM PC. 3. MS DOS 1.1 version for the IBM PC on a 5-1/4 inch disk. We have already verified that this version runs on the following computers: IBM PC, Eagle PC line, Columbia PC, Compaq PC. 4. Test version for the IBM PC using the 8087 math co-processor. Note that this is only a test version. We will be very pleased to answer all the questions you might have during your evaluation I would like to meet you in person and maybe COMDEX Las Vegas would be a good oportunity. But my plans for COMDEX Las Vegas are not finalized yet. Therefore the easiest thing would be for you to let me know where you will be staying so that we can eventually arrange a meeting. Sincerely yours, (signature) Philippe Kahn President P.S. You will find in this shipment the package that our customers receive for $49.95. We feel it is a good buy! ENCLOSURE ---END QUOTE--- -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

17 years

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test-drb December 2008